#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-08-11

[01:54:10] <Deejay> moin
[11:13:29] <JT-Shop> quiet in here today
[11:13:49] <Deejay> indeed
[11:21:10] * syyl_ws drops a needle
[11:25:43] <ReadError> so
[11:25:54] <ReadError> square m3 nuts are impossible to find in the USA ;/
[11:26:04] <ReadError> only 1 sketchy sorta place had them
[11:26:06] <jdh> make them!
[11:27:02] <jdh> I don't seem to use a lot of nuts.
[11:30:12] <ReadError> lol I value my time more than that ;)
[11:32:46] <jdh> what are you making that needs a square nut?
[11:33:33] <ReadError> basically an easy way to bind 2 parts
[11:33:47] <ReadError> im doing a --|- slot
[11:33:57] <ReadError> for material i cant tap
[11:37:44] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[11:38:13] <IchGuckLive> oh not many posts today
[11:38:22] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: why sqare
[11:38:39] <IchGuckLive> m3 is best to make it yourself
[11:39:11] <IchGuckLive> M20> is a bit a grab with no shop
[11:39:49] <jdh> for a kent style dust shoe?
[11:43:17] <ReadError> IchGuckLive: square because its easier tolerance wise
[11:43:26] <ReadError> nah jdh
[11:43:41] <IchGuckLive> up to you
[11:43:45] <ReadError> basically want to mount 2 pieces of G10 together at a 90 degree angle w/ minimal hardware
[11:43:56] <jdh> too bad. I want someone to draw one up and send it to me :)
[12:46:07] <IchGuckLive> its holiday time all over the world
[12:46:28] <IchGuckLive> 2 days to go till retirerment
[12:47:28] <IchGuckLive> and good news for me >bad< for the channel the goverment did accept the movement towards the outback for 5 years
[12:47:53] <jdh> what does that mean in .us english?
[12:48:13] <IchGuckLive> im off for at least 5 years in the near futur
[12:48:38] <jdh> what happens after 5 years?
[12:49:06] <IchGuckLive> thats the way live is
[12:49:41] <IchGuckLive> the contract for the farm is only signed 5 years
[12:51:04] <jdh> an outback farm in .de?
[12:51:30] <IchGuckLive> its a old saw mill station in middle of the forest
[12:51:35] <IchGuckLive> deep in a valey
[12:52:10] <IchGuckLive> NOt realy far from neyt town but its not inside the "civilication" connections
[12:52:18] <jdh> no interwebbes?
[12:52:56] <IchGuckLive> so far no to all own waterwell no power
[12:53:18] <IchGuckLive> im a ham so i will see what i can do
[12:53:34] <IchGuckLive> but its in a national park side
[12:53:45] <IchGuckLive> i dont think i can get a tower up
[12:54:07] <IchGuckLive> the contract does not give the clue on that
[12:54:43] <IchGuckLive> in snow winters there is 3month off the road
[12:54:53] <IchGuckLive> if it is
[12:55:29] <IchGuckLive> the familie now on is forced to leave because of school children
[12:55:55] <IchGuckLive> Now they ttry with older people
[13:03:36] <mozmck> anyone know why the mailing lists have changed headers?
[13:04:02] <mozmck> It has messed up all my linuxcnc message filters! :)
[13:04:35] <IchGuckLive> new distro chanfe from rtai to preeamt
[13:05:06] <IchGuckLive> mozmck: ask on devels
[13:14:30] <asah> I have an OT bolt question. what do you call a bolt with a hex socket on the end of the threaded end, opposite where the typical cap screw hex is.
[13:15:07] <asah> so I can put it into a blind hole and hold the threads from moving while tightening a nut on it.
[13:15:30] <asah> looking on mcmaster
[13:15:34] <asah> can’t find it.
[13:15:39] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200pcs-Stainless-Steel-Allen-Head-Socket-Hex-Set-Grub-Screw-Assortment-Cup-Point-/111418502673?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f10f6e11
[13:16:04] <asah> sorry, blind was the wrong word.
[13:16:20] <asah> imagine a set screw like that with a cap on one end.
[13:16:24] <asah> or a flange
[13:16:54] <archivist> cap head is a common name
[13:18:06] <asah> so imagine a typical hex bolt, with the end of it looking like those set screws you just set.
[13:18:07] <asah> sent
[13:18:43] <archivist> no sensible qty use so would be a special
[13:18:54] <asah> so I can put a hex key in and hold it in place while I wrench a nut down along the threaded end.
[13:19:18] <asah> I could just slot the end of a bolt I suppose and hold it that way.
[13:19:25] <archivist> hold the head, much easier
[13:19:25] <IchGuckLive> im off for today by
[13:19:26] <asah> flathead screwdriver style
[13:19:33] <asah> I can’t reach the head.
[13:19:43] <asah> its inside a place I can’t reach.
[13:20:01] <archivist> fix the design or get bolts made
[13:20:14] <asah> I can get the bolt in on that end, and I have access to the side that is out to the world.
[13:20:17] <asah> =)
[13:20:28] <asah> its an old mill I don’t want to drill anymore holes in. =)
[13:20:36] <archivist> glue a nut inside
[13:20:38] <asah> I could drill an access hole.
[13:20:59] <archivist> tap the hole
[13:21:08] <asah> its holding on a very large servo.
[13:21:36] <asah> I got it on using vise grips to hold the threaded end.
[13:21:42] <asah> its on, but thats not a great solution.
[13:21:50] <asah> I want to redo it a little cleaner.
[13:21:52] <asah> =)
[13:24:37] <asah> I could swear I have seen such a bolt
[13:25:25] <archivist> I have seen some similar but they are the sort you find made to order for car companies etc
[13:29:26] <asah> like this, but with a hex instead of a hole: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.chassisshop.com%2FCACHE887656E06065293AE0449983A7D0C34D%2FEarls%2Fpn_993304%2F993304.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure.chassisshop.com%2Fpartdetail%2F993304%2F&h=595&w=600&tbnid=04SVl1eRJmE24M%3A&zoom=1&docid=zTvftw7UNb8o5M&ei=iwbpU5DZMcSpyATtoIDwBA&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CFcQMyhPME84yAE&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=1676&page=7&start=237&ndsp=46
[13:35:16] <archivist> you can drill and punch the hex
[13:38:51] <archivist> at a previous job I made broaches to make internal squares in bar (clock winding keys)
[13:38:51] <asah> archivist: thanks for the ideas.
[13:39:24] <asah> drill and punch may be the way to go.
[13:41:09] <archivist> there is another way or three
[13:41:52] <archivist> get bolts drill and turn the internal hex.... you need linuxcnc for that :)
[13:43:14] <archivist> asah, that was not a joke :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpP7iTKuWpw
[13:43:16] <asah> trying to get my mill up so I can build nice things like that.
[13:44:26] <asah> nick mueller has a nice vid of his 4th axis doing cam milling on his 4th axis.
[13:44:37] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A
[13:44:40] <asah> planning to have a spindle and a 4th axis as options for mill turn
[13:44:48] <archivist> this is the actual hex
[13:45:43] <asah> cool!
[13:46:23] <archivist> you could also shape the form
[13:49:28] <archivist> if you can index the lathe spindle you can use the carriage as a shaper, a bit boring but doable
[13:50:08] <archivist> I did a knurl on a finger nut that way
[13:54:18] * JT-Shop adds another note to self, don't include the dowel pin offset in the cam part location
[13:55:28] <archivist> methinks you have a large board on the workshop wall covered in notes
[14:02:04] <jdh> I carry a sharpie around with my badge. I write lots of notes in control cabinets. It annoys the maint. guys, but they like to see them when things break.
[14:04:42] <JT-Shop> my BP Anilam CNC knee mill used to be covered in sticky notes...
[14:15:17] <JT-Shop> I need to plug a 23/64" machining hole in 7075, I'd like a good press fit. Any ideas on what size the plug should be? The hole measures 0.3595
[14:19:14] <archivist> you can also make a running fit and rivet it up
[14:20:06] <archivist> we usually hammer then file flat in clock plate repair
[14:21:10] <archivist> cant see the join most of the time :)
[14:21:12] <JT-Shop> I have to drill into the plug
[14:21:40] <archivist> we do when bushing a clock
[14:22:12] <archivist> allow enough so the hole wont weaken it too much
[14:24:28] <archivist> on this image the hole was offset so I keyed the plug (crap image) http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2003/2003_07_28_Dial_Norfolk/P1010023.JPG
[14:25:43] <archivist> but reasonable hidden at the end http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2003/2003_07_30_Dial_Norfolk/P1010008.JPG
[14:26:16] <JT-Shop> nice
[14:27:58] <archivist> I think riveting in fills the gaps a bit better than pressing because in may seize in a pressed fit
[14:28:43] <JT-Shop> this part is 3/4" thick and I ended up with a slip fit anyway
[14:30:08] <archivist> we have polished hammer faces for that work too
[14:31:24] <archivist> if you get it right the outer lip of the old hole burrs upwards a weeny bit so when its filed back nothing shows
[14:31:37] <JT-Shop> cool
[14:32:47] <archivist> a taper broach helps there to round the hole first ( from both ends)
[14:35:25] <JT-Shop> I did a combination of loc tite and peen tight
[14:46:50] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, half thousandth to .001 should be nice and tight
[14:47:10] <Tom_itx> are you gonna freeze it in place?
[14:53:37] <JT-Shop> I could not hold that tolerance on the old Samson lathe so I used loc tite and a ball peen hammer
[14:53:54] <JT-Shop> plug done, new hole in place I'm a happy guy
[14:53:54] <syyl_> ball pain?
[14:54:11] <JT-Shop> what you get when you loose the bull fight
[14:56:49] <syyl_> ah ok
[15:45:15] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: something to note is with drill bits -- when you measured the drill hole of .3595, it might have been ovalled out in reality
[15:45:22] <zeeshan> by a couple thou
[15:45:33] <JT-Shop> yea I know
[15:45:33] <zeeshan> so usually you have to ream the hole first, then measure
[15:45:34] <zeeshan> then plug
[15:45:55] * JT-Shop says screw it I'm going for a bike ride in the woods
[15:46:06] <zeeshan> and a force fit is about intereference of 0.0015
[15:46:08] <zeeshan> "
[15:46:14] <zeeshan> ultra force!
[15:47:08] <PetefromTn_> jeez man
[15:47:21] <PetefromTn_> just got a call from a friend I used to work with in that shop.
[15:47:33] <PetefromTn_> he said he has something he wants me to machine for him
[15:47:48] <PetefromTn_> only problem is he said it is copper
[15:47:54] <PetefromTn_> I hate copper.
[15:47:57] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[15:50:59] <zeeshan> why
[15:56:18] <PetefromTn_> makes a mess of the machine LOL
[16:00:22] <syyl_> it makes a mess of the tools :(
[16:00:34] <syyl_> its kinda abrasive and gummy and crapy and bla
[16:00:35] <syyl_> :D
[16:02:57] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: a friend eh? So your machine rather than his.
[16:05:12] <CaptHindsight> anyone want to tap all my 6051 for me? :p
[16:06:22] <syyl_> here, me!
[16:06:43] <syyl_> tie it to a pigeon and let fly it over to me
[16:07:32] <CaptHindsight> European or African pigeon? :)
[16:07:56] <syyl_> european! they feel home in germany
[16:11:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nrJJDsbSOg anyone try one of these? Mega Synchro Tapping Holder
[16:47:22] <Deejay> gn8
[17:10:38] <zeeshan> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32021
[17:10:39] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: ^
[17:14:00] <JesusAlos> hi
[17:15:07] <JesusAlos> I looking for the pin or signal to know the velocity in mm/min
[17:15:33] <JesusAlos> only found in units machine, but need mm/min
[17:16:03] <JesusAlos> motion.current-vel is for units machine
[17:16:17] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you like dat one?
[17:16:24] <JesusAlos> wha't for mm/min?
[17:16:56] <zeeshan> yes
[17:19:53] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: howizit in 6061?
[17:41:48] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Man those tapping heads look nice. I wondered how they measured that thrust forces in both directions during the video tho.
[17:48:16] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: with a load cell on the z-axis
[17:48:27] <PetefromTn_> aah
[17:48:45] <PetefromTn_> looks like a nice setup but Big Kaiser is known for making some good tooling ideas come to life
[17:49:21] <CaptHindsight> they are local for me as well
[17:56:27] <PetefromTn_> nice maybe they can get you a discount then LOL?
[17:58:32] <chopper79> Good day all, Since the jog pendant issue I was having is fixed now. I have been able to go on to some actual testing. Any of you have an idea on why I can jog the machine all around in any axis and return to zero and it actually be dead on zero, but when I run a code that is nothing more then linear drill pattern the spacing is off more and more per hole?
[18:00:00] <chopper79> Example is drill pattern on X axis with holes drilled in a straight line 1.5" on center. The first 2 are fine then the holes progressively get more room between them. The code will end and the machine will go back to zero and it is dead on zero
[18:00:47] * JT-Shop needs to get back into the habit of riding a few times a week
[18:01:42] <chopper79> All tests with indicator show nothing that would result to this happening. I guess you all will also need to know that this is a servo system with encoders using 5i25 7i77
[18:03:13] <chopper79> I was thinking that the PID needed tuning some more so I followed JT's tutorial and adjusted the x axis PID to produce some similar readings as shown in the write up. This did not help out at all with the results produced.
[18:05:23] <chopper79> Only difference is it seems I needed to add a great deal of FF1 to the setup to get the ferror graph to show decent. In the write up it says 0.03% of P for FF1 (his setup anyway) and I am more along .8% of P
[18:07:09] <chopper79> And FF2 is about .05% of P instead of .003% as stated(his setup). I know that the write up is just some basic guidelines and all setups will be different. Just not sure if this is normal or not as Y and Z axis show good ferror graphs without any FF1or FF2
[18:09:14] <chopper79> Values are P = 200, FF1 = 1.76 FF2 = 0.006. No I, D, FF0, Bias, or deadband tuning at all.
[18:09:38] <chopper79> This produced a smooth graph like was shown in the tutorial.
[18:10:38] <chopper79> When code is running the DRO shows the correct position but the position is off as stated before. Lost and need some help please
[18:12:29] <JT-Shop> chopper79, I'd say your scale is wrong
[18:13:11] <chopper79> ok, 500ppr encoder x 4 = 2000 x 5tpi = 10,000 scale
[18:13:34] <cradek> is the spindle running when you're testing with jogging? all kinds of noise can interfere with the encoders
[18:14:57] <chopper79> can position with a .0001 indicator and be dead on every time. Just is off when running code. Yes spindle is on when running code but not jogging. Did not think of trying that.
[18:15:37] <JT-Shop> have you ran the length of your travel by G code and measured how far you moved?
[18:17:03] <chopper79> No just jogged the length from set zero to end of travel and measured. Shows correct measurements with tape measure as I don't have a set of 34" calipers. Wish I did :)
[18:18:13] <chopper79> cradek: Would the noise injected from the spindle reflect on the DRO if the encoders were being interfered with?
[18:18:48] <cradek> it will cause the dro to no longer accurately say where the table is
[18:18:53] <cradek> so it depends
[18:18:55] <chopper79> got ya
[18:19:14] <chopper79> I will try that tomorrow also
[18:19:28] <JT-Shop> do you have shielded wire on the encoders?
[18:19:28] <cradek> if linuxcnc is commanding movement, the actual motion will be wrong - but the dro will say what is commanded
[18:19:56] <cradek> if linuxcnc is not commanding movement the table will actually move itself (pid will make the encoder count stay right)
[18:19:58] <chopper79> Yes shielded wiring on encoders, motors, and all data lines
[18:20:00] <SpeedEvil> But - wait
[18:20:11] <cradek> I wasn't clear on what behavior you were seeing
[18:20:12] <SpeedEvil> If it was spindle interference - it wouldn't go back to zero on zero
[18:20:22] <cradek> what is "it"
[18:20:39] <SpeedEvil> I should probably read all backscroll
[18:20:44] <asah> chopper79: have you captured a long slew on halscope?
[18:20:56] <asah> you can set the multiplier up, so you can gather more points.
[18:21:11] <asah> your following error may increase on longer moves.
[18:21:43] <asah> if you have issues on relative moves of different lengths.
[18:22:17] <asah> but if you are absolutely off by a scalar, I would second the “ENCODER_SCALE is wrong argument"
[18:22:56] <JT-Shop> chopper79, your shield wire is grounded only on one end?
[18:23:30] <chopper79> No its not as I was reading and it said not to unless I needed to. First servo system so I am following others advice
[18:23:52] <asah> you could check by zeroing, then entering a single G0 X 2 or something. go back to zero, then try x4, x0, x6, x0,x8,x0,x10
[18:24:08] <asah> then check with a single x0, x10
[18:24:09] <cradek> shield is not grounded at all? it should be (on the computer end)
[18:24:42] <chopper79> I will ground the shield then also.
[18:25:12] <asah> try the same thing with and without spindle on.
[18:25:17] <chopper79> asah: I will run this test. But it seems to be the same as me just jogging at full speed and returning to zero
[18:26:30] <asah> its systematic at least. you can run it from a file.
[18:26:37] <chopper79> So if the scaling is off then I will adjust that but I believe my math is correct. Unless the ball screws are not 5 tpi
[18:26:40] <asah> check it with various setups.
[18:27:31] <chopper79> should be 5tpi based on measuring them, but if scale was off then I could not position back to 0 every time correct?
[18:27:51] <mutilator> omy http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-at-63/
[18:27:54] <asah> no, you would be fine going back to zero
[18:28:16] <asah> problem would show up at the large end of moves.
[18:28:36] <asah> all linearly off by some multiplier
[18:28:48] <CaptHindsight> the scale can be off and return fine to zero, scale just matches machine units to real world units of measurement that you choose
[18:29:11] <chopper79> Ok, makes sense.
[18:29:14] <chopper79> BRB pizza is done
[18:29:33] <asah> yeah, what CaptHindsight said.
[18:29:35] <LeelooMinai> mutilator: Heh, I wonder what "suicide due to asphyxia.” even means...
[18:29:53] <mutilator> swung from the rafters
[18:29:59] <LeelooMinai> He was suffocating and decided to kill himself?
[18:30:44] <asah> carbon monoxide in a garage?
[18:31:03] <LeelooMinai> That would be "by" not "due"
[18:31:19] <CaptHindsight> ballscrews might not be 5tpi, or the encoders might not be the expected counts per rev
[18:31:24] <JT-Shop> chopper79, make sure you ground it on one end only or you will create a current loop
[18:31:53] <Jymmm> OH MAN =( http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-at-63/
[18:32:26] <CaptHindsight> if it was encoder noise then he probably would be returning exactly back to zero unless he produced the same noise going both directions
[18:32:30] <JT-Shop> hmmm 5mm pitch is almost 5tpi
[18:32:40] <CaptHindsight> would be/would not be
[18:34:06] <CaptHindsight> if it's noise then the more he moves back and forth the more error he'll get and not be back to zero after his moves
[18:34:27] <asah> CaptHindsight: agreed
[18:34:28] <tjtr33> cosine err can return to 0 also with same counts. cosine err is when motion is slightly skewed to desired direction.
[18:36:22] <asah> chopper79: if the problem is encoder_scale, then you can take your multiple from moving out to the end of your travel and multiply your current encoder_scale * commanded_distance / actual_distance_traveled
[18:38:14] <CaptHindsight> I just thinking of theoretical conditions that could produce the same noise in both directions, it would have to be some accurate noise source (60hz AC) or noise synced to the encoder in some way, highly unlikely
[18:38:37] <tjtr33> is the error repeatable with same program ( hole position error is same )?
[18:38:55] <CaptHindsight> so it's more likely that his screw pitch is slightly off
[18:39:44] <tjtr33> " The first 2 are fine then the holes progressively get more room between them. The code will end and the machine will go back to zero and it is dead on zero "
[18:40:34] <CaptHindsight> we'll have to wait for pizza time to be over to find out :)
[18:40:35] <tjtr33> a linear scale ( glass scale ) that uis not aligned to axial motion will cause cosine err also ( not a rotary encoder )
[18:40:52] <tjtr33> oh pizza pizza pizza! ok
[18:41:24] <CaptHindsight> 500ppr encoder x 4 = 2000 x 5tpi = 10,000 scale
[18:41:27] <tjtr33> http://pergatory.mit.edu/kinematiccouplings/documents/Lecture_Notes/Topic%204%20Errors%20in%20precision%20machines.pdf
[18:41:46] <CaptHindsight> lets guess that he has a 5mm pitch screw vs 5 tpi
[18:43:02] <Tom_itx> Robin Williams dead at 63...
[18:43:20] <asah> any idea what his machine is?
[18:43:47] <CaptHindsight> it's a 3 axis mill, it's in the backlog from a couple of days ago
[18:44:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Sad, I gave link a few minutes ago.
[18:44:15] <asah> He didn’t say how far off his holes were.
[18:44:23] <asah> over what distance.
[18:44:33] <Tom_itx> missed it
[18:44:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-at-63/
[18:44:47] <CaptHindsight> if it's ~1.7% we'll know
[18:50:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: quote from him… "I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone, it’s not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people that make you feel all alone”.
[18:53:28] <chopper79> Ok, sorry everyone for the delay. I will not miss dinner time with my family. Make it s point to sit at a table and have dinner with them every night.
[18:53:32] <CaptHindsight> he's been battling depression and addictions for decades and unfortunately psychiatry is still in the dark ages
[18:54:03] <CaptHindsight> chopper79: how far of were the holes as you moved in one direction?
[18:54:06] <chopper79> Mill is a Kasuga 3 axis mill. Factory screws which are metric so that is probable where im off then
[18:54:23] <chopper79> The holes are out about .04-.06 detween each other
[18:54:32] <tjtr33> chopper79, was the error repeatable? were the holes in the same wrong place?
[18:54:37] <CaptHindsight> are you using mm or inch for the DRO?
[18:54:49] <chopper79> I can stick it in the same hoes every time all the time.....
[18:55:04] <chopper79> inch on DRO as I function in inches.
[18:55:25] <chopper79> so my conversion is off on the crews possibly.
[18:55:50] <CaptHindsight> how far are the holes from 0?
[18:55:59] <chopper79> holes not hoes, but same diffrence I guess
[18:56:02] <tjtr33> stepper or servo? ( position feedback or no position feedback) . if feedback, rotary encoder or linear encoder?
[18:56:27] <chopper79> holes are 1.5" inches apart on center starting from zero
[18:56:49] <tjtr33> ^^ desired/programmed, not measured
[18:56:53] <chopper79> servo, with rotary encoder on back of motor shaft
[18:57:33] <chopper79> The code is written for 1.5" on center spacing
[18:58:19] <chopper79> G81 X-1.5 Y0.0 R0.1 Z-0.25 F15.0
[18:58:23] <chopper79> X-3.0
[18:58:27] <chopper79> X-4.5
[18:58:30] <chopper79> etc.
[19:00:05] <JT-Shop> what does each hole measure from X0?
[19:00:17] <JT-Shop> more important did you save us any pizza?
[19:00:18] <CaptHindsight> are you off by ~1.7%? 25mm vs 25.4mm
[19:02:16] <tjtr33> hmmm 1st 2 holes were correct, no pizza here, yes is error algebraic ?
[19:02:35] <chopper79> Holes 1st = 1.5, 2nd, = 3.0, 3rd = 5.06, 4th = 6.72
[19:03:10] <tjtr33> ! 5.06 not 4.5! woah
[19:03:39] <tjtr33> can you wiggle the spindle around with your little finger or a sneeze ;)
[19:03:51] <CaptHindsight> logged off
[19:03:56] <tjtr33> ^^ kidding
[19:04:02] <chopper791> sorry back pidgin locked up
[19:04:08] <chopper791> what did I miss
[19:04:26] <tjtr33> ! 5.06 not 4.5! woah
[19:04:35] <tjtr33> can you wiggle the spindle around with your little finger or a sneeze ;)
[19:04:42] <tjtr33> ^^ kidding
[19:04:42] <CaptHindsight> .........and that's how I'd fix it
[19:04:51] <CaptHindsight> lol
[19:05:27] <tjtr33> as Mork would say "Stay!"
[19:05:46] <tjtr33> thats a HUGE error
[19:05:51] <CaptHindsight> chopper791: do the holes come out at the same pacing every time?
[19:05:55] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i dont own any of those compression/tension heads
[19:05:55] <chopper791> 1.5, 3.0, 4.56, 6.12
[19:06:00] <zeeshan> i'd like to one day :D
[19:06:13] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: ah
[19:06:15] <tjtr33> <chopper79> I can stick it in the same hoes every time all the time.....
[19:06:22] <chopper791> yes holes are the same every time
[19:06:42] <CaptHindsight> just making sure we're talking about the same thing
[19:06:47] <JT-Shop> chopper791, is is possible you have a 5mm pitch screw not a 5TPI? they are very close
[19:07:03] <chopper791> tjtr33: lol, yeah my typing sucks sometimes
[19:07:40] <chopper791> they are metric screws so I measured them and put in 5tpi. I am guessing they are off
[19:07:52] <tjtr33> forget the hoes thing, 1/2 inch is wackoi huhe, is the error of hole # 3 1/2 inch really?
[19:08:00] <tjtr33> wacko hughe
[19:08:03] <chopper791> no
[19:08:06] <tjtr33> i cant type either
[19:08:13] <chopper791> 1.5, 3.0, 4.56, 6.12
[19:08:18] <chopper791> typo
[19:08:19] <tjtr33> oh!
[19:08:43] <CaptHindsight> yeah thats about 1.6666666%
[19:08:57] <tjtr33> deltas are 0, .06, .06
[19:09:07] <chopper791> so going form a metric screw to inch conversion is maybe where im off then.
[19:09:12] <chopper791> from*
[19:09:21] <CaptHindsight> use 5m per rev vs 5 turns per 1 inch (25.4mm)
[19:09:44] <JT-Shop> 5TPI is 0.2" pitch and 5mm is 0.19685" pitch
[19:10:02] <tjtr33> ok but i dont see hole # 2 being correct given pitch error
[19:10:11] <chopper791> backlash
[19:10:15] <chopper791> maybe
[19:10:29] <chopper791> measured about .001 of backlash on X axis
[19:10:41] <CaptHindsight> 3" + 1.7% = 3.051
[19:11:03] <chopper791> seems about right
[19:11:12] <chopper791> where did your 1.7% come from
[19:11:18] <chopper791> may have missed it
[19:11:58] <CaptHindsight> 0.2" vs 0.19685" pitch
[19:11:59] <tjtr33> 25.4 / 25 = 1.016
[19:13:35] <chopper791> So my scale is off due to the metric conversion
[19:13:52] <CaptHindsight> you were close
[19:14:26] <chopper791> close is for horseshoes and hand grenades.
[19:14:42] <chopper791> damn figures I missed something liek that
[19:16:09] <asah> whats your machine chopper791?
[19:16:30] <zeeshan> rip robin williams
[19:16:40] <chopper791> old scale is 10,000 based on 5tpi so new scale should be 10,160
[19:16:45] <chopper791> if I am correct
[19:16:56] <chopper791> Kasuga knee mill.
[19:17:44] <asah> I am setting up my maho to be metric. =)
[19:18:05] <chopper791> http://youtu.be/SHb9Q8-EX0A
[19:18:18] <tjtr33> asah, using EXE boxes to get Heid scales -> TTL ?
[19:18:18] <chopper791> Like this
[19:18:36] <asah> thats me
[19:18:54] <chopper791> in the video?
[19:19:04] <asah> not exe boxes, but the original exe board from the maho.
[19:19:23] <tjtr33> ah
[19:19:37] <asah> chopper791: no, tjtr33 is referring to other postings (I have a build thread on practical machinist… might be that)
[19:20:05] <chopper791> oh... gonna say, chances of me picking a random video and it has him in it.
[19:20:07] <asah> there is a differential drive chip in the original board, but they are only pushing out one lead per signal.
[19:20:37] <asah> which is odd.
[19:20:54] <asah> my error is that the b channel on the quadrature board is not reading correctly.
[19:21:04] <asah> but if I swap the inputs the b is still the problem.
[19:21:12] <asah> so it seems mesa related.
[19:21:19] <chopper791> So if my scale is off it would make the distance per hole off by the 1.7% or .051" of an inch right
[19:21:36] <asah> I scoped the original quadrature signals and they look pretty clean.
[19:21:38] <chopper791> mm to inch
[19:21:40] <CaptHindsight> 1.6% I was rounding up after adding some lash
[19:21:46] <chopper791> got ya
[19:21:47] <asah> one of the channels has a small amount of noise in it, but not much.
[19:22:05] <asah> I sent off the screen caps to peter, I hope he has time to look at it soon. =)
[19:22:29] <chopper791> sweet well I will give it a try. Thanks again everyone for the help on this. Now if I can get the .0001 position to stop fluttering back and forth I might be set
[19:22:32] <tjtr33> chopper791, yes, any motion would show that error
[19:22:49] <CaptHindsight> chopper791: let us know if it works
[19:22:53] <tjtr33> asah, did you try swapping axis drives/mototrs?
[19:23:47] <CaptHindsight> people will just disappear and we never hear the good news
[19:23:50] <asah> this was with the servos off. just hand spinning the axis.
[19:24:06] <CaptHindsight> just the it's broke how do I fix it?
[19:24:06] <chopper791> Will do, the jog pendant issue I was having the other day was corrected when I checked my wiring again... White and white with grey not the same!!! So I was trying to use my pendent with A and A/... Did not work that well for me.
[19:25:05] <chopper791> I could see some people doing that Capt
[19:25:14] <tjtr33> damn yesterday found a blue wire with 2 white stripes, (already had one blue with a single stripe ) wonder how many notes are wrong now
[19:25:47] <chopper791> I try to give my feed back of things that corrected the issue. I have failed sometimes.
[19:26:26] <chopper791> Yeah I was using a 50pr trunk line and missed the wire due to the stripe. Felt stupid afterwards on wasting your guys time and mine
[19:27:04] <chopper791> sorry 25pr line
[19:27:44] <tjtr33> scsi twisted pair flatband ( i want a belt made of that ... ubergeek!)
[19:30:52] <chopper791> Oh speaking wiring.... On the servos I have The ground, main inputs from servo drivers, there are 2 white wired coming from the servo motor that were never hooked up with the old controller. Any idea what they are? it looks like they are attached to some sort of hall sensor.
[19:31:13] <chopper791> on the motor case
[19:32:07] <chopper791> If they are a hall pickup then what would be the benefit to using them as the old controller did not?
[19:32:53] <tjtr33> guesses wont help you, try to see what they are connected to ( motor temp, tacho, 2 wires dosent sound like halls, but again, just guesses )
[19:33:14] <chopper791> DO not have any info on the motors as the company is no longer and I can not find anything online.
[19:33:26] <chopper791> MSI servos is all I can tell ya
[19:34:47] <chopper791> works without them but just trying to find out for my own knowledge and if they are beneficial then great. Part of me thinks maybe they are some type of sensor to monitor load, but I am probably way off.
[19:36:07] <chopper791> hard telling I guess... I will keep looking. Thanks again for the help everyone. Time to get onto my 3d printer builds.
[19:40:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening fellow CNC junkies LoL
[19:41:29] <asah> hey pete.
[19:41:51] <PetefromTn_andro> Asah hey man whatzgoinon?
[19:42:06] <asah> wishing I was working on my mill. =)
[19:43:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Well get on it man hehe
[19:43:22] <asah> working on my real job… =)
[19:43:27] <asah> it was a productive weekend though.
[19:44:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Sitting here digesting some delicious steak fajitas nachos and watching a nasty lightning storm outside my bedroom window. Jeez some serious light shows lately
[19:44:44] <PetefromTn_andro> What real job
[19:45:19] <asah> software dev.
[19:45:51] <PetefromTn_andro> Aah
[19:47:16] <PetefromTn_andro> I didn't get much milling done today unfortunately tomorrow I am gonna get some more 6061 and get going again.
[19:48:09] <PetefromTn_andro> What kinda software are us developing
[19:50:11] <asah> I should be “done” today or tomorrow with a physical therapy application to help analyze knee risk in patients.
[19:50:24] <asah> computer vision thing using the kinect.
[19:50:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Interesting
[19:52:38] <asah> what are you building? rifle scope riser I think I remember?
[19:53:12] <PetefromTn_andro> I broke my damn best pair of Sony studio monitor headphones the other day and have been borrowing my wife's in ear buds and I am starting to wonder what a quality pair of earbuds can sound like. these are cheap ones but they sound pretty damn good really.
[19:54:28] <tjtr33> asah kinect stuff i played with, animating puppets, fun, used projector outside at night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY2dC9fi02s
[19:54:35] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I have been making a couple versions of a droop compensating scope riser for Feinwerkbau. Precision rifles as well as a couple other things
[19:56:43] <PetefromTn_andro> I am kinda amazed at the amount of bass these earbuds can produce. I guess since they kinda plug the ear opening almost completely they can use your entire ear to make a chamber for the sound.
[19:57:38] <PetefromTn_andro> If they weren't pink with flowers on them I might have had to confiscate them Lol
[20:00:26] <asah> tjtr33: cool stuff. looks like people must have had a great time with it. that was a while ago!
[20:00:52] <asah> I love the shadow puppet thing. In a former life I did some animation as well.
[20:02:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Apparently Robin Williams is dead from an apparent suicide they are saying damn that is so sad.
[20:03:45] <tjtr33> asah your medical work sounds interesting tho, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jORsG8AG72I&feature=player_embedded
[20:03:50] <asah> we heard…
[20:04:37] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh did ya sorry.
[20:05:27] <asah> no sorry. big loss. I have bumped into him a couple of times around here.
[20:05:47] <asah> tjtr33: cool stuff… hard.
[20:08:56] <PetefromTn_andro> Just found out my new HTC one smartphone has an ir blaster that can control my tv and surround suou
[20:09:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Sound system
[20:09:59] <PetefromTn_andro> It works on my tv but the codes did not work on my denon receiver and our original remote is among the missing
[20:10:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Is there another way to get the actual ir code scheme
[20:11:14] <tjtr33> google ir sniffer
[20:11:25] <tjtr33> not easy
[20:12:24] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay thanks for the suggestion
[20:19:33] <tjtr33> asah if you have a Leap, this app is free https://airspace.leapmotion.com/apps/marionette-zoo/windows
[20:20:46] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_andro: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-A-V-Universal-REMOTE-CONTROL-RC-970-/271494629627
[20:21:01] <CaptHindsight> maybe as a last resort
[20:21:57] <asah> no leap. just kinect. leap seems cool.
[20:22:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Thanks man. Honestly the original remote for this thing is an amazing learning remote that controls everything in my living room but it got broken under the couch one day unfortunately
[20:23:15] <PetefromTn_andro> I have considered getting another one but they are like a hundred bucks
[20:24:09] <PetefromTn_andro> Thus my surprise and excitement when I learned my new phone might possibly be able to take it's place at least somewhat
[20:24:48] <CaptHindsight> the problem always was having the 1-2 devices that used some different format
[20:25:02] <PetefromTn_andro> I can't believe the camera options this phone has freaking amazing really.
[20:25:10] <CaptHindsight> B&O was one
[20:25:35] <PetefromTn_andro> Aah bang and olufsen
[20:25:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Good expensive stuff LOL
[20:27:01] <PetefromTn_andro> I think the denon all use the same stuff but there are many models so this one was left out apparently. The phone can Lear.
[20:27:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Learn if you have the originalremote
[20:27:55] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn I suk at cellphone typing hehe
[20:32:36] <anarchos1> Does it sound normal that the end of my ball screws didn't have flats on them?
[20:32:55] <anarchos1> so that the lovejoy coupler's set screw is just holding onto something round?
[20:34:25] <PetefromTn_andro> Mine had round ends with a slot and the couplers were crimped on into those recesses
[20:34:52] <anarchos1> hmm, mine are just round.
[20:35:02] <anarchos1> and only held on with a set screw as far as i know
[20:35:31] <PetefromTn_andro> What kinda machine
[20:35:41] <anarchos1> X2 with a CNC Fusion kit
[20:35:47] <anarchos1> just got the kit in the mail today
[20:36:57] <PetefromTn_andro> On my small mill I just pinned them through the shaft
[20:37:29] <PetefromTn_andro> Never had any problems after that
[20:39:52] <Connor> anarchos1: You need to grin or file the flats yourself.
[20:40:06] <Connor> or use a different style coupler.. clamp style vs set screw..
[20:40:12] <CaptHindsight> you'd think a kit would do that for you
[20:40:44] <anarchos1> yeah that's what i thought
[20:40:46] <Connor> and lovejoy's aren't the best choice for couplers either.
[20:40:53] <anarchos1> since they even ship it "assembled"
[20:41:18] <Connor> No. What if you want to use clamp style? Flats could cause issue..
[20:41:26] <CaptHindsight> heh DIY "kit" comes with a one block of steel and one block of aluminum
[20:41:34] <anarchos1> they also have the worlds worst instructions on how install it
[20:41:39] <anarchos1> it's all been trial and error :P
[20:42:06] <Connor> Use Oldham couplers.
[20:43:24] <CaptHindsight> maybe the ballscrews are so soft when your tighten the set screws they will deeply score the ends and keep it from slipping
[20:43:39] <Connor> Umm.. No.
[20:43:45] <CaptHindsight> I've had motor shafts like that
[20:44:34] <Connor> Other reason they may come that way is, you may want to cut a key slot..
[20:44:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Sure man could happen easily
[20:44:39] <Connor> for use with pulleys..
[20:45:26] <Connor> Much rather not having flats, gives me the choice of what I want to use.
[20:46:26] <tjtr33> heres a few types , using no keys, no dog screws, http://www.ruland.com/ps_couplings.asp?gclid=COK1loHJjMACFVJo7AodVEwAdw
[20:47:05] <Connor> Those are the clampping style I was talking about.
[20:47:45] <Connor> http://www.mcmaster.com/#oldham-couplings/=t8nv12
[20:50:35] <anarchos1> it seems weird they'd sell a "you only need to drill two holes!!" kit with somethign you'd need to grind your own keyways into
[20:50:41] <anarchos1> or even grind flats onto
[20:51:06] <CaptHindsight> I like McMaster since I can order until 5pm and have it by ground the next day am
[20:52:24] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup McMaster rocks
[20:52:42] <CaptHindsight> same for Enco, but only until 4pm my time
[20:52:52] <tjtr33> someone had probs with " dang i bought the wrong diameter coupler on one end" maybe of use -> http://www.huco.com/products.asp?p=true&cat=67
[20:53:00] <CaptHindsight> even for truck freight only items
[20:53:03] <anarchos1> welp. do i install ubuntu 12 or debian weezy for 2.6?
[20:53:34] <CaptHindsight> anarchos1: what desktop do you want?
[20:53:46] <Connor_iPad> Neither. Install the ISO with linuxcnc already on it
[20:54:29] <anarchos1> idunno
[20:54:32] <anarchos1> gnome i guess
[20:54:42] <anarchos1> i've always used gnome
[20:54:51] <Connor_iPad> Install the linuxcnc ISO.
[20:55:05] <CaptHindsight> 12.04 is gnome 3
[20:55:38] <anarchos1> is gnome 3 any good? only ever used 2.x
[20:56:30] <CaptHindsight> Connor: have you seen the new releases? one is a Wheezy hybrid ISO, the other is a howto on 12.04.
[20:56:53] <Connor_iPad> No.
[20:56:58] <CaptHindsight> anarchos1: O-BOY, have you not seen gnome3?
[20:57:02] <Connor_iPad> But. I always say go the easy way.
[20:57:54] <anarchos1> nope
[20:57:57] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.6
[20:58:02] <anarchos1> hmm
[20:58:18] <CaptHindsight> anarchos1: you might want to try it first
[20:59:12] <anarchos1> ya?
[21:01:34] <CaptHindsight> anarchos1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNgyIRakQ7o
[21:02:48] <tjtr33> i dont see on that page if the process descibed gets you that sucky unity POS, crappy non-synaptic pkg mgr, no way to add items to app list, no way to get dtop icons, maybe i'm forgetting some of the 12.04 'advantages'
[21:03:12] <PetefromTn_andro> Wheezy gnome ubuntu. Where do theyv get these names lol
[21:03:14] <CaptHindsight> heh, I hate it
[21:03:17] <tjtr33> oh yeah, no screen saver
[21:03:46] <XXCoder1> just install xscreensaver
[21:03:50] <tjtr33> just say NO
[21:03:54] <XXCoder1> too bad it havent been updated for last 500 years
[21:04:08] <CaptHindsight> Mint Debian Mate is based on the new fork of gnome2
[21:04:34] <PetefromTn_andro> Is that a pornographic screen saver lol
[21:04:45] <XXCoder1> if it is, very very tame. only one x
[21:04:55] <CaptHindsight> but I got used to LXDE now, I just installed Wheezy with LXDE and Linuxcnc
[21:05:06] <PetefromTn_andro> ;)
[21:05:34] <CaptHindsight> 14.04 is even worse
[21:05:44] <XXCoder1> http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/ PetefromTn_andro
[21:05:52] <tjtr33> what maybe 14.04 gets you grub3?
[21:10:03] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's just me but I miss the application launcher, I'd like to see the names of apps vs having to search for them by typing in their name
[21:10:31] <XXCoder1> heh ubuntu unity sucks hardcore
[21:10:59] <CaptHindsight> what if you don't remember the name or don't know the name?
[21:11:08] <XXCoder1> so far oldest is 1985 xscreensaver module
[21:11:09] <PetefromTn_andro> I have ubuntu on the Cincinnati
[21:11:13] <XXCoder1> capt exatcky why I hate it
[21:15:33] <PetefromTn_andro> Anyone making anything cool and interesting with Linuxcnc today?
[21:18:10] <tjtr33> is marble/granite cutting more demanding on a machine frame than cutting steel?
[21:18:11] <tjtr33> I assumed so, but wonder if these big gantry stone mills are as stiff as gantry mills for steel.
[21:20:03] <tjtr33> like these http://northwoodmachine.com/products/5-axis-cnc-machining-centers/fa-large-work-envelope
[21:20:47] <CaptHindsight> I don't expect them to have the same accuracy as machines for steel
[21:22:33] <CaptHindsight> http://northwoodstoneworks.com/5-axis-milling-solutions.html like this one
[21:22:46] <tjtr33> because of the design or the feedback & motion elements used?
[21:23:06] <CaptHindsight> it's rigid enough but it's the pitch of the screws and the encoders
[21:23:27] <CaptHindsight> they don't cut granite to +- 10um
[21:24:04] <tjtr33> wondering if a road trip to louisville is in the works, if i threw Hiwin rails & leadscrews and Heideyhoo linear encoders on it....
[21:24:50] <CaptHindsight> do they list the specs?
[21:24:55] <tjtr33> looks thermally unstabile...
[21:25:47] <tjtr33> i found some accuracy & repeatability on stock models, why cant i find that link now! ;)
[21:26:05] <CaptHindsight> http://northwoodstoneworks.com/northwood-cnc-fabcenter---ufc.html
[21:26:28] <CaptHindsight> http://northwoodstoneworks.com/assets/sw138ge-fc-miter-smsb.pdf
[21:27:28] <CaptHindsight> oh, thats just some placement and dimension specs
[21:29:38] <CaptHindsight> http://northwoodmachine.com/products/5-axis-cnc-machining-centers/fa-large-work-envelope
[21:31:27] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I the really precise machines here we temp control the cabinet that they are in plus use laser for real time calibration and alignment
[21:32:39] <tjtr33> yeah the AGies used coolant lines thru the frames, controlling the temp, this is cruder, and just a work around bad delivery times from asia
[21:33:31] <tjtr33> well back to the SMAC, the hand twisted pairs and shielding are done. time to program the MESA side
[21:33:35] <tjtr33> bye!
[21:35:04] <CaptHindsight> I wonder what a slab of Invar 3m x 5m x .3m costs?
[21:35:49] <anarchos1> hmm
[21:36:47] <toastyde2th> holy jesus
[21:36:57] <toastyde2th> more than most automobiles
[21:37:08] <CaptHindsight> ~36,000 Kg
[21:37:09] <toastyde2th> possibly more than some homes
[21:37:40] <toastyde2th> a block of steel that large would be absurdly expensive
[21:37:42] <toastyde2th> invar?
[21:38:07] <CaptHindsight> how much Invar to build a gantry machine 3m x 5m x 1.5m?
[21:38:25] <toastyde2th> you don't want to build machines out of invar
[21:38:30] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invar
[21:38:32] <toastyde2th> it's a really bad idea
[21:39:02] <toastyde2th> it works in small parts really well
[21:39:18] <toastyde2th> and in situations where you need metal parts to coexist with glass and ceramics
[21:39:24] <toastyde2th> in large machines, it creeps
[21:39:54] <toastyde2th> they have to be continually corrected and remeasured
[21:40:10] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I wonder if the creep settles over time?
[21:40:16] <CaptHindsight> years
[21:40:30] <CaptHindsight> or if it just creeps forever
[21:40:31] <toastyde2th> nope
[21:40:33] <toastyde2th> it creeps forever
[21:40:54] <toastyde2th> and honestly thermal expansion in frames is not a big issue
[21:41:15] <toastyde2th> the places where it matters are the screws and making sure there's no differential heating from motors in the ways
[21:41:28] <toastyde2th> and if you don't have the equipment to measure the amount of deflection...
[21:41:38] <toastyde2th> also, spindle bearings
[21:41:47] <toastyde2th> spindle bearings are the #1 source of thermal error
[21:42:13] <CaptHindsight> we use lasers to recalibrate on the fly, but these are 5+ axis with no spindle
[21:42:34] <CaptHindsight> but you can measure the tools
[21:43:55] <zeeshan> toastyde2th:
[21:43:58] <toastyde2th> most people don't have the ability to run an interferometer
[21:44:03] <zeeshan> can you explain how spindle bearings are a source of thermal error
[21:44:04] <toastyde2th> on a machine in production
[21:44:05] <zeeshan> how does that work
[21:44:20] <toastyde2th> they are usually the hottest part on a machine
[21:44:30] <toastyde2th> and the spindle itself grows into the work
[21:44:39] <zeeshan> ohhh
[21:44:41] <zeeshan> along the Z axis
[21:44:43] <toastyde2th> yep
[21:44:45] <zeeshan> that makes sense
[21:45:14] <zeeshan> i guess thats why the high end machines with high speed spindles
[21:45:18] <zeeshan> have watercooled spindles
[21:45:21] <toastyde2th> yep
[21:45:23] <zeeshan> they're trying to reduce the heat
[21:45:30] <toastyde2th> slower machines just cool the oil
[21:45:40] <toastyde2th> or use mag/air bearings
[21:45:59] <archivist> ask skunkworks_ about his temp compensation in linuxcnc
[21:48:30] <toastyde2th> other sources of error are rapids on long ass screws
[21:48:40] <toastyde2th> but most hobby dudes aren't moving a 10 ton gantry so
[21:48:45] <toastyde2th> not a big issue
[21:49:17] <CaptHindsight> tjt is building a big machine
[21:49:41] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: pics
[21:49:52] <CaptHindsight> looking for something to start with vs build from scratch
[21:50:28] <CaptHindsight> not many choices for a machine that big
[21:50:40] <toastyde2th> CaptHindsight, ?
[21:50:49] <toastyde2th> how big
[21:50:52] <toastyde2th> and what type of machine
[21:51:10] <CaptHindsight> that invar slab size
[21:51:22] <zeeshan> apparently if you put a layer of cosmoline on machinery
[21:51:24] <zeeshan> and store it outside
[21:51:26] <zeeshan> it doesnt rust?
[21:51:58] <toastyde2th> CaptHindsight, working area or overall machine dimensions
[21:52:12] <toastyde2th> cuz if you need that working area there's a lot of options, but be be prepared to move it
[21:52:31] <CaptHindsight> toastyde2th: work area IIRC, but you'll have to ask him
[21:52:44] <toastyde2th> ingersoll rand and forest line are two big name brands that have true bridge mills at that size
[21:52:47] <toastyde2th> 50-300 hp heads
[21:52:55] <toastyde2th> used, obv
[21:56:08] <CaptHindsight> any still making a gantry that size in the USA?
[21:56:37] <XXCoder1> if you has large cnc I suppose you can make gantry by it
[21:57:15] <toastyde2th> CaptHindsight, still making, not that i'm aware of - all the big mills are pretty much used
[21:57:44] <archivist> CaptHindsight, there was a recent one made new in the UK
[21:57:48] <zeeshan> im sure the big companies have designs for it
[21:57:54] <zeeshan> and build it on an order basis
[21:57:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-Column-Bridge-Mill-Machining-Center-Toyoda-2011-Asset-Exchange-/221334792994
[21:58:22] <zeeshan> thats massive :P
[21:58:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/INGERSOLL-MASTERHEAD-DUAL-HEAD-BRIDGE-TYPE-CNC-PLANER-MILL-B31981-/261546014902
[21:58:23] <toastyde2th> that's a pretty small one
[21:58:39] <CaptHindsight> and it's local!
[21:58:42] <zeeshan> I wonder how much the first machine weighs
[21:58:47] <toastyde2th> the ones i am referring to are 300" bridge, 700-1000" X axis
[21:58:56] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: toronto canada
[21:58:58] <zeeshan> is local to you? :P
[21:59:06] <zeeshan> it's local to me!
[21:59:47] <zeeshan> they want 450k for that machine
[21:59:52] <zeeshan> and they only have one picture?
[21:59:59] <zeeshan> nm
[22:00:55] <zeeshan> oo nice
[22:01:01] <zeeshan> fanuc series i controller
[22:01:03] <zeeshan> secksi
[22:03:40] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: ~60,000 lbs
[22:03:56] <zeeshan> beast
[22:04:14] <CaptHindsight> the biggest model is 55,000kg
[22:04:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toyodausa.com.php53-26.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/machines/bridge-mill/lb-series/lb633#specifications
[22:04:41] <zeeshan> what type of machine machines out big ship engine blocks?
[22:04:49] <toastyde2th> they're made in parts
[22:04:58] <toastyde2th> and it's usally a floor type horizontal boring mill
[22:05:12] <zeeshan> so what do these guys use this massive machines for then?
[22:05:13] <toastyde2th> you can get horizontal boring mills any length you want
[22:05:16] <toastyde2th> and 30-40 meters high
[22:05:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toyodausa.com.php53-26.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/machines/gantry-mill also local to me
[22:05:33] <zeeshan> lol
[22:05:34] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight:
[22:05:39] <zeeshan> i'd be tempted to go inside that machine
[22:05:44] <zeeshan> and chill in there while it's machining
[22:05:44] <zeeshan> :)
[22:05:52] <toastyde2th> bridge mills tend to be used for smaller parts, actually
[22:05:58] <zeeshan> maybe have a ping pong table too
[22:06:08] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: give me an example of something
[22:06:12] <zeeshan> massive that needs to be machined
[22:06:12] <toastyde2th> machine frames, stuff that's squat and square
[22:06:13] <zeeshan> in 1 piece
[22:06:19] <toastyde2th> mining gears
[22:06:21] <zeeshan> milling
[22:06:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toyodausa.com.php53-26.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/machines/gantry-mill/mg-series/mg1050#specifications 148,000 Kg
[22:06:32] <zeeshan> well thats more lathe work?
[22:06:36] <zeeshan> most props for ships
[22:06:39] <zeeshan> are machined on large lathes
[22:06:46] <zeeshan> but im wondering, like milling wise
[22:06:47] <jdh> I'm having a 1.5" x 40" x 96" piece of steel machined
[22:06:48] <toastyde2th> it's actually a combination of lathe, mill, and planer work
[22:06:52] <zeeshan> oh
[22:06:59] <toastyde2th> most BIG shit in one part is mining industry
[22:07:01] <zeeshan> jdh to do what
[22:07:10] <zeeshan> http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/media/collection_images/1/172.1989%23%23S.jpg
[22:07:12] <zeeshan> wow
[22:07:13] <zeeshan> those are massive.
[22:07:21] <jdh> table for an automated TIG welder
[22:07:39] <zeeshan> jdh nice!
[22:07:40] <toastyde2th> and that's a small gear
[22:07:43] <zeeshan> for yourself?
[22:07:44] <toastyde2th> for mining
[22:07:48] <zeeshan> or for work
[22:08:05] * Tom_itx wonders if archivist can make those
[22:08:10] <zeeshan> http://www.flsmidth.com/~/media/Images/Product-SubSection%20Pages/Grinding/Gears/Products/minerals/KPB/KPB_475x310px.ashx?h=311&w=475
[22:08:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toyodausa.com.php53-26.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/images/made/images/uploads/weleMGworkArea_600_326.jpg is the control panel actually in the work area?
[22:08:23] <jdh> for owkr
[22:08:25] <jdh> or work.
[22:08:26] <toastyde2th> also, bridge parts
[22:08:29] <zeeshan> cool
[22:08:33] <toastyde2th> for things like drawbridges
[22:08:38] <toastyde2th> marine engines, obviously
[22:08:48] <zeeshan> arent those welded assemblies
[22:08:53] <toastyde2th> large bearing seats for foundry furnaces
[22:09:02] <toastyde2th> they are, but they need to be machined in
[22:09:07] <toastyde2th> nothing that big is made out of billet
[22:09:08] <archivist> Tom_itx, no but that is a tiny gear
[22:09:23] <toastyde2th> you either forge it in or loam cast
[22:09:30] <toastyde2th> sometimes, both
[22:09:48] <zeeshan> i dont even wnat to imagine
[22:09:52] <zeeshan> what kind of presses they use to forge em
[22:10:01] <toastyde2th> very very large presses
[22:10:12] <Tom_itx> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fd2n4wb9orp1vta.cloudfront.net%2Fresources%2Fimages%2Fcdn%2Fcms%2FMMS_0410_Windustries_A.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mmsonline.com%2Farticles%2Fgoing-to-great-lengths&h=333&w=500&tbnid=t1EonddnqTTgnM%3A&zoom=1&docid=qpHlCt1YGrGJcM&ei=9oDpU6LTLOuajAKbxYGoDQ&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CCIQMygAMAA&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=3796&page=1&start=0&ndsp=13
[22:10:17] <zeeshan> that vibrate the entire building!@
[22:10:19] <toastyde2th> and forged stuff is almost exclusively limited at that size to ring rollers
[22:10:49] <zeeshan> http://www.alloysteel-forgings.com/photo/pl485126-oem_crankshaft_forgings_forged_alloy_steel_industrial_shaft_42crmo_34crnimo6_25mn.jpg
[22:10:52] <zeeshan> apparently that is forged
[22:10:55] <zeeshan> er starts from a forging
[22:10:58] <toastyde2th> ya
[22:11:05] <toastyde2th> open die forging
[22:11:21] <toastyde2th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTU0Z-FkhtU
[22:11:23] <toastyde2th> different kinds
[22:11:27] <toastyde2th> there's a ring roller in that video
[22:11:31] <toastyde2th> a small one tho
[22:11:51] <zeeshan> so its not one big die
[22:11:57] <zeeshan> that shapes it
[22:12:07] <zeeshan> cause that'd require immense force
[22:12:10] <toastyde2th> ya
[22:12:17] <zeeshan> intense.
[22:12:18] <zeeshan> :)
[22:12:22] <toastyde2th> the beginning has the roller, the end shows you some hammers and open die presses
[22:12:43] <toastyde2th> oop, here's a big press
[22:12:44] <toastyde2th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msLm4uPxTr0
[22:12:51] <zeeshan> im suprised those dies
[22:12:57] <zeeshan> dont wear out after the first forging
[22:13:19] <zeeshan> 26,000,000 lb!
[22:13:20] <zeeshan> damn.
[22:13:30] <zeeshan> 26 million lb press.
[22:13:32] <zeeshan> !!!!!!!.
[22:13:51] <archivist> a big machine http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/Travelling_Gantry_Machine.pdf
[22:13:52] <toastyde2th> they actually do wear pretty fast but nobody cares because the dies don't really matter much
[22:14:01] <archivist> CaptHindsight, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/Travelling_Gantry_Machine.pdf
[22:15:20] <toastyde2th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWbz0Wf2rM
[22:15:23] <toastyde2th> diamond turning
[22:15:45] <zeeshan> wow.
[22:15:48] <zeeshan> wtf
[22:16:46] <CaptHindsight> archivist: that is quite impressive
[22:17:04] <zeeshan> saves someone from sanding and polishing.
[22:17:53] <zeeshan> whats weird is
[22:17:56] <zeeshan> he's using constant rpm
[22:17:58] <zeeshan> not constant sfm
[22:20:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nanotechsys.com/wp-content/uploads/file/PDFs/Nanotech%20450UPL%20Specifications%20-%20Rev_0812.pdf the specs on that lathe
[22:21:42] <CaptHindsight> Motion accuracy: Axial: ≤ 12.5 nanometers (0.5μ”) Radial: ≤ 12.5 nanometers (0.5μ”)
[22:22:24] <CaptHindsight> Straightness in critical direction 0.3μm (12μ”) over full travel
[22:22:49] <anarchos1> .200 pitch ball screw = how many rev/inch?
[22:22:54] <anarchos1> .2?
[22:23:11] <zeeshan> yes
[22:23:36] <zeeshan> lead = number of threads * pitch
[22:23:40] <Tom_itx> pretty coarse
[22:24:01] <zeeshan> .200" right?
[22:24:14] * zeeshan runs
[22:25:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nanotechsys.com/machines/nanotech-450upl-ultra-precision-lathe-1/
[22:25:35] <Tom_itx> must be show n tell tonight
[22:25:37] <anarchos1> or is it that it moves .2 inch per revolution
[22:25:50] <anarchos1> making it 5 revolutions per inch
[22:25:53] <anarchos1> makes more sense
[22:25:58] <Tom_itx> i'd be more inclined to believe that
[22:26:08] <toastyde2th> zeeshan, constant rpm is used to avoid vibration
[22:26:20] <CaptHindsight> we were looking for big gantry mills, now it's anything goes!
[22:26:47] <toastyde2th> stability is more important than surface speed, since the tool is monocrystalline diamond there's no built up edge
[22:27:40] <toastyde2th> thus surface speed becomes irrelevant to cut stability
[22:27:54] <anarchos1> ah yes, it works at 5 rev/inch :D
[22:27:57] <toastyde2th> but the motor changing rpm tends to cause a great deal of vibration
[22:28:16] <anarchos1> according to the not so accurate scale on the mill itself, 1inch = 1inch now :)
[23:06:05] <zeeshan> http://www.histecon.magd.cam.ac.uk/research/machines/reinecker2.jpg
[23:06:08] <zeeshan> what is this dude machining
[23:11:33] <XXCoder1> drill head?
[23:13:23] <toastyde2th> yeah, looks like a drill
[23:13:46] <toastyde2th> or part of a grinder
[23:16:26] <XXCoder1> maybe
[23:16:40] <XXCoder1> gonna love old school shop pics
[23:24:48] <toastyde2th> trufax
[23:24:55] <toastyde2th> there were some old pix of a shipyard
[23:25:00] <toastyde2th> with some old school vertical shapers
[23:25:13] <toastyde2th> having one of those is now an item on my bucket list
[23:25:23] <XXCoder1> lol cool. what would ya make with it
[23:25:45] <toastyde2th> they're good for making oddly shaped internal/external profiles
[23:25:54] <toastyde2th> cams, etc
[23:26:01] <XXCoder1> interesting
[23:26:01] <toastyde2th> splines, hexes
[23:26:17] <toastyde2th> they usually come with an integrated rotary table
[23:26:24] <toastyde2th> so you can machine lobes fairly easily
[23:26:57] <XXCoder1> interestng
[23:27:25] <XXCoder1> cams has em right? almost egg profile shapes on rid 6 or whatever many needed
[23:27:37] <toastyde2th> ?
[23:27:49] <toastyde2th> sorry i didn't understand a word of that
[23:28:18] <XXCoder1> well most pictures when I google lobes show engine shaft
[23:28:25] <XXCoder1> its for controlling valves
[23:29:10] <toastyde2th> yes
[23:29:14] <toastyde2th> that's a camshaft
[23:29:28] <XXCoder1> what part of it would be called "lobes"
[23:29:43] <XXCoder1> I guess its those parts that actually move valves
[23:29:53] <toastyde2th> it's the general description of the shape of a cam
[23:30:05] <toastyde2th> the part that deviates from a circle
[23:30:06] <toastyde2th> is the lobe
[23:30:21] <toastyde2th> cams in older machines and for not-car purposes can have many lobes
[23:30:23] <XXCoder1> hmm close to what I thought but cool
[23:31:18] <XXCoder1> apparently also part of ears lol
[23:31:34] <XXCoder1> saw one pic of ear with ear earring. wtf'
[23:31:59] <XXCoder1> would be recrustive if ear earring had ear earring on it too and so on :P
[23:32:16] <XXCoder1> recursive
[23:32:48] <XXCoder1> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F981CD-8YEg/0.jpg