#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-08-05

[05:17:37] <Deejay> mahlzeit
[05:22:55] <Jymmm> Mazel tov
[05:41:03] <miss0r> I just had two cooland pipe breakages in a row. apparently this new cutting oil cooland pump is quite high preasure! Just a few moments ago I had cotting fluid drip from the sealing! rough start to a day
[05:41:34] <miss0r> The pipes run near the floor on the wall, and the breakage spewed the cooland 3 meters up into the air to hit the sealing"! *sigh*
[05:42:00] * miss0r lights a smoke
[05:42:52] <Jymmm> miss0r: bout time you took a shower! Use Soap!!!
[05:43:33] <miss0r> I don't like water for the same reason: it could have soap in it!
[05:43:47] <Jymmm> lol
[05:44:16] <Jymmm> then shower with a friend, I don't care.
[05:44:55] <miss0r> I feel pretty lucky thou. The cooland stopped few inches from this PC
[05:45:08] <Jymmm> heh
[05:45:39] <miss0r> *sigh* I need a project to get me motivated fixing all this stuff
[05:45:41] <Jymmm> amazon is pissing me off!
[05:45:53] <Jymmm> ber pump?
[05:45:58] <miss0r> cooland is pissing me off!
[05:45:59] <Jymmm> beer*
[05:46:01] <miss0r> coolant*
[05:46:17] <Jymmm> use better hoses?
[05:46:19] <miss0r> hehe, I wish I would have thought of that before I tossed coolant in it
[05:46:39] <Jymmm> nylon reenforced
[05:46:42] <miss0r> I replaced the hose - theres no problem now.
[05:46:51] <Jymmm> ...yet
[05:47:52] <miss0r> indeed. I am thinking of building an acrylic sheild for this mill, so that I can keep the coolant where it needs to be(Ijust modded it for a coolant pump)
[05:48:53] <miss0r> I am also thinking of adding step drivers for this mill. I am actualy looking for somewhere to buy 3 of thoes NEMA 24'ish steppers to drive it directly
[05:48:58] <Jymmm> got strip heater?
[05:49:19] <Jymmm> what oz/in ?
[05:49:59] <miss0r> I don't have a strip heater. I was thinking of building it with HDPE 20mm ish, and just screw the conors together.
[05:50:33] <Jymmm> 20mm?!
[05:50:35] <miss0r> I don't remember what I was looking at with the steppers. but it is an old arboga mill. So I think they need to have alot of power, so I won't need to add additional gearing
[05:50:55] <Jymmm> http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
[05:51:05] <miss0r> 20mm, yeah - Using stuff at hand. I have a sheet about 2x1m laying around
[05:51:08] <Jymmm> drive them around 48-50V
[05:51:19] <Jymmm> 20mm THICK?!
[05:52:10] <miss0r> yeah....?
[05:52:34] <miss0r> oh... no... 18mm ;)
[05:52:48] <Jymmm> That's not a coolant shield, that's a fucking wall!
[05:53:23] <Jymmm> try 3-6mm
[05:53:38] <miss0r> yeah. I know. But then I would have to go spend money on it :)
[05:54:08] <miss0r> plus it would look awesome
[05:54:13] <Jymmm> Hey, it's you that has to move this damn thing, and at 18mm HDPE, it's gonna be heavy!
[05:54:41] <Jymmm> Use some good hinges on it
[05:55:09] <miss0r> not realy. The table isn't that big on this old arboga. 560*250mm and it would have to be something like 200mm tall
[05:55:30] <miss0r> Arboga U2508
[05:55:37] <Jymmm> nfc
[05:55:54] <miss0r> ?
[05:56:06] <Jymmm> Bah need 5.58 more
[05:56:21] <Jymmm> NFC = No fucking clue
[05:57:07] <miss0r> http://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/img5.gif
[05:57:25] <Jymmm> ah
[05:57:51] <miss0r> ranges from 100-2900 rpm
[05:57:56] <miss0r> (why I love it so)
[05:58:31] <miss0r> The link you posted me with the steppers: Is that a good place to buy them or should I see if I can find them cheaper on ebay?
[05:59:48] <Jymmm> that would be up to you
[06:00:10] <Jymmm> theyre imported fwiw, but he's been selling them for years
[06:00:14] <balestrino> i'm looking for a good mini-itx board with PCI slot for a Mesa. Any hints?
[06:00:47] <Jymmm> balestrino: avoid round ones?
[06:01:03] <miss0r> Jymm: Indeed. Can you recommend somewhere for buying the controller also?
[06:01:34] <Jymmm> Do NOT use the xylotex driver, it's limited
[06:01:49] <miss0r> how so: speed wise?
[06:01:56] <Jymmm> heat and voltage
[06:02:17] <Jymmm> The allegro chips are heat sensative
[06:02:24] <Jymmm> Eh, G540
[06:02:26] <jdh> I have one. It's ok for what it is.
[06:02:29] <jdh> (xylo)
[06:02:39] <balestrino> Jymmm: what do you mean?
[06:03:40] <miss0r> I found a kit with everything in it on ebay for 200usd. with a tb6560 driver - sounds like something i've been warned about
[06:04:14] <jdh> heh
[06:05:19] <miss0r> this looks bretty neat thou: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ship-from-German-WH-3Axis-Nema-34-Stepper-Motor-Dual-Shaft-1600oz-3-5A-CNC-kit-/190819462668?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item2c6db9ee0c
[06:15:15] <miss0r> meh. That shower is realy speaking to me by now.
[08:41:34] <PetefromTn_> morning folka
[08:41:36] <PetefromTn_> folks
[08:44:07] <Deejay> hi mister pete :)
[08:48:15] <PetefromTn_> hey mister Deejay!!
[08:48:42] <Deejay> :)
[08:56:30] <PetefromTn_> makin' parts!
[09:06:26] <PetefromTn_> Got a couple parts to machine today and they are repeat parts so the code is mostly proven which is nice.
[09:07:11] <PetefromTn_> can kinda sit back and watch it and maybe chat online too LOL. Without too much worry about problems.
[09:09:19] <Deejay> hrhr
[09:09:21] <Deejay> sounds good
[09:09:50] * Deejay refills pete's coffee pot ;)
[09:10:05] <PetefromTn_> actually I am a pitiful soda drinker man... RC COLA!!
[09:10:38] <Deejay> oh, what?
[09:10:46] <Deejay> i don't drink coffee either ;)
[09:11:14] <PetefromTn_> thanks for the refill tho man appreciate it.
[09:11:32] <PetefromTn_> Finally got a decent spindle warmup program done for the machine.
[09:11:36] <PetefromTn_> works a treat
[09:12:02] <PetefromTn_> right now I am trying to design a custom riser rail for this othe precision rifle I have here for a customer
[09:14:31] <PetefromTn_> love watching the machine makin' parts when you don't have to worry about the program. just sit back and sip your RC cola and enjoy!
[09:22:25] <PetefromTn_> Aah I love the smell of aluminum chips and flood coolant in the morning!
[09:25:26] <JT-Shop> dang 2.6.1 is out and I don't even have 2.6.0 installed anywhere yet
[09:25:44] <PetefromTn_> better get crackin'
[09:25:53] <cradek> dude!
[09:26:24] <PetefromTn_> does it have the new trajectory planner yet?
[09:26:30] <PetefromTn_> that is when I want to upgrade.
[09:26:41] <PetefromTn_> right now the machine is working well I am afraid to mess with it.
[09:26:50] <cradek> no, you have to run master to get that. please do test it.
[09:27:24] <PetefromTn_> I think I am on master now but it has not been updated for a couple months.
[09:27:30] <PetefromTn_> Connor did it last time for me.
[09:27:34] <PetefromTn_> He is da guru.
[09:30:04] <PetefromTn_> mine says 2.6.0 pre0-5310-geld36aa
[09:51:04] <lair82> CaptHindsight , Hey, we are finally today going to make some chips on the machine that I put that new new Asrock board with the AMD A4-4000 on so I should start seeing how its going to run yet this week.
[09:53:14] <CaptHindsight> lair82: we have been using them here the past few weeks with various APU's
[09:53:18] <lair82> I have a question, we are looking into our next build, a VMC, and I would like to dabble with the 7I80 using the ethernet port and get away from the PCI mounted 5I23. I found a board on newegg, and was wondering what you thought, model #ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ FM2+ / FM2 , reason being is the wireless capability
[09:53:27] <lair82> How are they going?
[09:54:51] <lair82> PCW , how much does the 7I80HD go for?
[09:55:54] <pcw_home> brazzillions!
[09:56:14] <CaptHindsight> there is a latency delay issue if kernel mode settings (KMS) is used or hardware accell driver with the newer APU's, you have to turn off KMS
[09:57:26] <lair82> Ok, I will look into that, I'm not sure how it is set right now?
[09:57:43] <CaptHindsight> if you using the older 10.04 with 2.6.32 RTAI it has no latency problems
[09:58:21] <lair82> Yep, I haven't jumped off that cliff yet and moved to 12.04
[09:58:28] <CaptHindsight> lair82: you're probably getting 7-8uS max latency with the 25uS thread
[09:58:40] <lair82> sounds about right
[09:58:59] <lair82> brazzillions????
[09:59:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah man that's creole for about $125.00 LOL
[10:01:02] <lair82> I see, not too bad, better than north of 200 for the 5I23
[10:01:36] <PetefromTn_> I dunno what it really costs I was actually kidding. I have the 5i25 7i77 combo in my Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC and it works awesome.
[10:02:47] <lair82> we run the following 5I23/7I49/7I44/2-7I70/7I70/7I73
[10:03:11] <lair82> Pretty much a carbon copy on each machine
[10:03:54] <lair82> 7I71 sorry,
[10:04:49] <PetefromTn_> wow must be very elaborate machines to need so many boards.
[10:05:11] <PetefromTn_> I have everything hooked up to my machine boards and still have a bunch of IO available
[10:05:29] <PetefromTn_> I do not have a ton of buttons on the panel for stuff yet tho so I will probably use more.
[10:05:56] <lair82> 3 resolvers, handwheel w/encoder, 60 some inputs, and about 20 outputs
[10:08:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have the three axes, handwheel with encoder probably a dozen outputs and maybe as many inputs. Like I said tho I am gonna be adding some buttons in the future.
[10:09:17] <PetefromTn_> what kinda machine?
[10:10:19] <lair82> Cincinatti Milacron MO Series turning centers 10x22 chucker, 12x60 Universal, and a 15x40 chucker
[10:11:01] <PetefromTn_> Ooh nice I have been looking at a used Milacron turning center for my shop to go with the Cincinatti Arrow.
[10:11:15] <PetefromTn_> Do you find they are decent machines?
[10:11:27] <lair82> Sooner or later we are going to be doing our newest addition a Cincinatti Milacron MR 24x100, 53,500lb macine
[10:11:47] <PetefromTn_> awesome. Where are you located?
[10:12:11] <lair82> Petersburg Michigan, 20 mins north of Toledo Ohio
[10:12:54] <PetefromTn_> nice..I am always telling people how small my VMC here is and 53,500 lbs mill just proves my point LOL.
[10:13:00] <PetefromTn_> What are the travels on that behemoth?
[10:13:15] <lair82> We cant find anything better, they are rock solid heavy duty machines.
[10:14:02] <lair82> 24" by 100" is what it is rated at but last week we had a 32" diameter by 24" long slug they turned up
[10:14:05] <PetefromTn_> I am very pleased with mine so far. At least now that it is under LinuxCNC control anyways. Still need to program the toolchanger tho I am lazy and making parts and money has kinda put off the completion of the mahcine.
[10:14:37] <PetefromTn_> what the hell are you guys making LOL?
[10:14:43] <lair82> Funny how that happens, same thing around here sometimes
[10:14:58] <lair82> anything big and round, Hahaha
[10:15:40] <lair82> Railroad rail wheels, dies, shafts, gears, about anything, we are a job shop, no production runs
[10:16:00] <PetefromTn_> you are my hero dude hehehe I want to get this shop making cool parts and into a profitable situation that is gonna require a CNC slant bed lathe for sure. Right now I have a couple simple parts I am making but I am actively looking for more work.
[10:16:13] <PetefromTn_> my travels are 20x20x20.
[10:17:01] <lair82> I think I will be starting a Milacron 10VC1000 VMC retrofit here in the next month to Linuxcnc, that's why the questions about the 7I80HD
[10:17:50] <SpeedEvil> lair82: sounds fun
[10:17:50] <PetefromTn_> thats a big old beast for sure.
[10:17:59] <PetefromTn_> cat50?
[10:18:06] <lair82> We make alot of crazy stuff
[10:18:21] <lair82> Cat40 I beleieve
[10:19:08] <lair82> Parts for steel mills, railroad, Tube and Pipe mills, machinery, you name it
[10:19:26] <PetefromTn_> so mostly steel then.
[10:19:49] <lair82> It actually came from TN, Alcoa aluminum to be exact in Alcoa TN
[10:20:12] <PetefromTn_> LOL I am in Maryville Tennesssee just five minutes from Alcoa aluminum.
[10:20:16] <lair82> All steel and 50% of our work is hard turning
[10:20:25] <PetefromTn_> nice.
[10:20:48] <jdh> I used to work at Alcoa
[10:21:06] <PetefromTn_> no kidding. I have done some firefighting in Alcoa Aluminum plant.
[10:21:11] <lair82> Less than $15k for the machine, then another $20k for rigging, shipping and unloading
[10:21:13] <PetefromTn_> Nasty place when things go bad.
[10:21:40] <lair82> Probably saw the big gray beast at one pint or another maybe
[10:21:51] <PetefromTn_> sure did you just buy it?
[10:22:05] <lair82> Got it last fall
[10:22:15] <PetefromTn_> sweet.
[10:22:25] <jdh> where are you?
[10:22:26] <lair82> Still running on the 1985 Milacron 900 control
[10:22:30] <PetefromTn_> Nice to hear other folks using these machines and converting to run linuxCNC
[10:23:00] <lair82> jdh are you referring to me?
[10:23:01] <PetefromTn_> now that my machine is running I like it pretty good.
[10:23:13] <lair82> Cant beat them
[10:23:14] <jdh> yes
[10:23:36] <lair82> petersburg Michigan, just north of toledo ohio by 20 mins
[10:23:43] <lair82> were are you?
[10:24:32] <lair82> Guys are more than welcome if your in the neighborhood to swing in and take a peek
[10:24:58] <jdh> coastal NC. Just wondering how far you had to ship a $15k machine to cost $20k!
[10:33:38] <lair82> They had to unhook it, skate it out of the building, load it, special permit to haul it for it being 53,000lbs, then unloaded, and set down
[10:37:28] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[10:39:32] <jdh> they used helicopters to put all those 'modular' buildings in the middle.
[10:39:38] <jdh> pretty impressive back then.
[10:40:46] <skunkworks> lair82, did you have a water emergency in your area?
[11:25:39] <lair82> Yep, I live right in the middle of that disaster, half of the people at our shop as well
[11:35:06] <JT-Shop> lets see, I bet you can't boot a DVD in a CD drive and that is my problem :(
[11:35:40] <JT-Shop> nope wrong guess, it's a DVD drive
[11:36:29] <JT-Shop> now the debian dvd boots
[11:47:10] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, what was it?
[11:48:50] <skunkworks> I have an odd thread. 20tpi but between 1/4 and 5/16 diameter.. probably from the first part of the last century..
[11:49:39] <skunkworks> it does have other 'normal' threads like 5/16 - 18
[11:49:47] <skunkworks> just a bit odd
[11:50:32] <jthornton> skunkworks, it was EBB: Error 8000
[11:50:53] <jthornton> second time to boot it seemed to work, I hit enter and went to get lunch
[11:51:00] <skunkworks> huh.
[11:51:04] <ssi> skunkworks: a couple years ago I wrote an iphone app that calculates cut depth parameters for arbirtrary threads
[11:51:08] <ssi> I need to dig it out and dust it off
[11:51:08] <jthornton> skunkworks, british withworth?
[11:51:17] <jthornton> witworth
[11:53:18] <jthornton> skunkworks, is it an 8 x 1.25 metric thread?
[11:53:56] <skunkworks> hmm - I should try that.. it would be odd that it is metric
[11:54:30] <cpresser> 1/4 diameter would be 6.35mm. that doesn sound like M8
[11:55:00] <jthornton> I see a 9/32-32 thread size
[11:55:22] <jthornton> 5/16 is 8mm or there abouts
[11:55:37] <skunkworks> 1/4 20 fits loose - 5/16 18 doesn't even try to start.
[11:56:22] <cpresser> my book says that there is a whithword-1/4-20tpi thread
[11:56:28] <jthornton> missing screw? might have been tapped with a helicoil tap
[11:56:52] <skunkworks> no - there are a bunch tapped that size
[11:57:26] <skunkworks> is a 1/4 whithwork not 1/4 outside diameter?
[11:58:33] <skunkworks> no - 1/4 is 1/4..
[11:58:46] <cpresser> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth
[11:59:21] <cpresser> according to the 'tabellenbuch metall' a whitworth 1/4 has a OD of 6.35mm. that would be 1/4"
[12:02:31] * jthornton doesn't see anything like that in machinery's handbook
[12:02:35] <cpresser> afaik there are two sets of whitworth-threads. one for screws, and one for pipes
[12:04:48] <cpresser> http://imagebin.org/317063
[12:05:22] <cpresser> (its from a german book, so all numbers are mm (if there is no "-sign)
[12:13:26] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:17:32] <archivist> 4 whitworth forms mebe standard whit, BSF and BSP (pipe) BSPP (parallel pipe)
[12:19:23] <archivist> skunkworks, I have a bit of a thread info collection, one day I might make a web page or few
[12:20:35] <archivist> 3/8 BSF is 20 tpi
[12:21:16] <archivist> http://www.motalia.com/Html/Charts/bsf_chart.html
[12:23:20] <cpresser> 1/4 BSW is 20 tpi: http://www.motalia.com/Html/Charts/bsw_chart.html (this is basically the same as the upper char in my scan)
[12:26:34] <IchGuckLive> http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-tap-standard.htm
[12:26:37] <archivist> that site has a number of thread standards missing eg UNS, buttress etc
[12:29:32] <IchGuckLive> in in europ so i dont care ;-)
[12:36:40] <IchGuckLive> i need to close down realy bad weather outside water falling from sky like a river BYE
[12:42:21] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/stirling/DSC_2166.JPG
[12:42:47] <skunkworks> it is the outside diameter holes..
[12:42:56] <skunkworks> just a bit odd.
[12:43:25] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/stirling/crankinstalled.jpg
[12:43:40] <skunkworks> and the bolts that hold the crank case together
[12:46:07] <CaptHindsight> anyone ever have a TB6560 driver die where the motor parks fine but only jitters back and forth when sent steps? and yes the connection for Step and Dir are fine as is the motor and power supply
[12:47:35] <archivist> skunkworks, models often have the ME series threads
[12:47:38] <CaptHindsight> maybe if only one side of the bridge is open it will act this way?
[12:48:34] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight, some drivers seem to make noise if the dir line jitters.. (which happens in stepgen and such)
[12:49:18] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: if I swap drives it works fine, all the signals to the drives are fine
[12:49:34] <CaptHindsight> it's just odd to see a stepper driver fail this way
[12:51:26] <CaptHindsight> the tb6560 might not like 8ft motor wires
[12:52:42] <ssi> http://gizmodo.com/the-first-3d-printed-saxophone-sounds-surprisingly-dece-1616272037
[12:53:45] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight, I scanned your message.. (didn't see that it failed)
[12:54:05] <_methods> wow silly 3d printer people
[12:54:08] <_methods> http://hackaday.io/project/1544-Cheap-and-Easy-to-Build-3D-Printer
[12:54:17] <_methods> this one is highlarious
[12:55:25] <Smidge204_> Ah, that's where that video came from
[12:55:48] <CaptHindsight> Wood you build it?
[12:55:55] <_methods> hahah
[12:55:58] <Smidge204_> Wood or would?
[12:56:08] <Smidge204_> No in either case, I guess :D
[12:56:10] <CaptHindsight> Wood, You build it. :)
[12:56:24] <CaptHindsight> Would you build it?
[12:56:39] <Smidge204_> No sir, I would not.
[12:57:01] <Smidge204_> I've proposed the idea of using optical mice as a cheap relative position sensor, though
[12:57:16] <CaptHindsight> somebody was in here a few days ago asking about the marlin and smoothieboards
[12:57:40] <Jymmm> somebody is always in here asking about such things.
[12:57:41] <CaptHindsight> said the smoothie works stand alone so EMC is no longer needed
[12:57:49] <_methods> hahahah
[12:57:55] <_methods> yeah FU EMC
[12:58:07] <_methods> we dont' need you to make plastick junks
[12:58:19] <ssi> yep, no reason to use a sophisticated piece of software when you can run some arduino code that does enough to run four or five stepper motors and a mosfet
[12:58:29] <CaptHindsight> but he wanted to build some CNC machine
[12:59:27] <Smidge204_> I see a lot of that. 3D pritnters do not make servicable CNC milling machines
[12:59:40] <ssi> well there's two things at work there
[12:59:42] <CaptHindsight> what gets me is that they seem to wear their ignorance like some badge of courage
[12:59:48] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Fastermouse.png
[12:59:50] <ssi> naturally 3d printers mechanically aren't serviceable as mills
[12:59:50] <Smidge204_> Different machines built for different purposes
[13:00:06] <_methods> it's not ignorance when you know everything
[13:00:08] <ssi> but they are making that natural jump with their control electronics from 3d printing to milling
[13:00:13] <Smidge204_> ssi: The firmware isn't either, really.
[13:00:13] <ssi> which isn't unreasonable
[13:00:19] <_methods> they're just so far ahead of you, you can't follow them lol
[13:00:22] <ssi> but they hang onto it with such fervor
[13:00:26] <CaptHindsight> thank you for the info, may I recommend #reprap
[13:00:32] <_methods> hahaha
[13:00:45] <Smidge204_> _methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUfkK08e24
[13:00:53] <_methods> is that the pipe cnc lol
[13:01:01] <theorbtwo> OK, now I wonder, being mostly a 3d printing guy -- why *aren't* the electronics of a 3d printer reasonable for milling?
[13:01:03] <_methods> i can't look at it today i'll go insane
[13:01:08] <ssi> I dunno... it's like the same thing with trying to convince people that a mesa card is better than a parport
[13:01:23] <theorbtwo> I get why the mechanics aren't -- they aren't designed for side loads -- but what's wrong with the electronics?
[13:01:48] <Smidge204_> Not the electronics - aside from the stepper drivers being puny
[13:01:51] <archivist> why isnt a matchstick as good as 4 by 4 oak
[13:01:57] <ssi> theorbtwo: well for starters, they typically have integrated drives which are small
[13:02:14] <theorbtwo> Ah, that's fair enough.
[13:02:16] <ssi> they will run the little 40oz nema17s on a reprap fine, but beyond that you'll quickly find yourself wanting proper drives
[13:02:36] <_methods> and the software..............
[13:02:36] <ssi> the "control" is a big mess of arduino code which has been purpose built to run repraps
[13:02:49] <ssi> it's not flexible or extensible (sanely)
[13:02:49] <archivist> resolution is often too low too
[13:02:55] <Smidge204_> The firmware does things most would consider inappropriate for CNC operations
[13:02:57] <CaptHindsight> cnc paper mill vs milling steel
[13:02:59] <_methods> besides the fact taht they choose to not follow any standards for their gcodes
[13:03:55] <Smidge204_> archivist: The drive system, typically belts, is also puny
[13:04:08] <ssi> reprappers have no notion of running things like spindles
[13:04:20] <CaptHindsight> and require frequent realignment
[13:04:24] <ssi> whereas proper cnc hardware will have analog outs for spindle drives and such
[13:04:47] <CaptHindsight> aka adjusting all the nuts on the threaded rods
[13:05:00] <Smidge204_> CaptHindsight: I've not had much trouble with my printer in that respect, once everything was sorted.
[13:05:01] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I have a 3d printer that I built which hasn't been realigned in two years and is still doing fine
[13:05:24] <ssi> it was shelved for several months, I pulled it off the shelf and had to touch up the Z home by a couple hundred um to get it to start properly and that was it
[13:05:56] <_methods> yeah most of them can't fathom leveling a bed
[13:06:08] <_methods> so that's why the majority of them can't print a cube
[13:06:14] <CaptHindsight> ssi: how is your frame constructed? Most I've seen and makerspaces were constantly out of alignment
[13:06:15] <Smidge204_> heh
[13:06:25] <ssi> CaptHindsight: it's a mendelmax style machine; all 20mm extrusion
[13:06:28] <theorbtwo> ssi: To be fair, proper reprap hardware has analog output, for running heaters and fans. Underpowered, quite possibly, but that's a couple transistors.
[13:06:33] <Smidge204_> Mine is threaded rod
[13:06:49] <theorbtwo> As to alignment, yeah, 90% of everything is crud.
[13:06:58] <ssi> theorbtwo: iirc, those are just pwm outs.. I'm talking about +/-10V control signals
[13:07:16] <Smidge204_> Correct, PWMs
[13:07:29] <ssi> pwm isn't analog; it's merely the illusion of analog :)
[13:08:31] <theorbtwo> Hm. Why +/-10V? Is running a spindle backward useful?
[13:08:37] <Smidge204_> Reprap 3D printers are also designed to be cheap, so proper high power DACs are out in favor of "good enough" PWM + MOSFET
[13:08:38] <ssi> absolutely
[13:08:41] <skunkworks> only a filter away from analog.. ;)
[13:09:28] <ssi> heheh
[13:11:16] <SpeedEvil> Stepers have a large 'OKish' inductor
[13:13:20] <Smidge204_> Actually, that makes me think of a question... what's the more common control for CNCs? Steppers? Servos?
[13:13:36] <jdh> home, steppers, real - servos
[13:14:05] <ssi> yeah, the bigger you get, the more likely it is to be servo
[13:14:15] <ssi> very few "real" machines run steppers
[13:14:21] <Smidge204_> I can certainly see the lmiitations of stepper motors
[13:14:22] <pcw_home> it most cases its more of a size issue (>200W is servo territory)
[13:14:28] <Smidge204_> Especially in size/power
[13:15:42] <pcw_home> also efficiency (if excess heat is an issue) step motors are quite inefficient
[13:15:48] <PetefromTn_> Oh so you mean I can't 3d print on my Cincinatti hehe
[13:16:06] <ssi> PetefromTn_: nobody said that :)
[13:16:10] <_methods> hahah
[13:16:21] <_methods> put a tube of liquid nails in your spindle
[13:16:23] <_methods> bewm
[13:16:26] <_methods> 3d printer
[13:16:44] <PetefromTn_> I got some tubed laying around here Hmmm
[13:16:51] <PetefromTn_> tubez
[13:16:52] <_methods> googogogogog
[13:16:58] <_methods> pics
[13:17:12] <ssi> I need to make a spreadsheet and start trying to figure out wiring/pinout of these parker servos
[13:17:16] <PetefromTn_> I bet I can print a 3d liquid nails human heart in about an hour or so.
[13:17:21] <PetefromTn_> anyone need a transplant?
[13:17:44] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[13:18:02] <PetefromTn_> ;)>
[13:19:14] <Smidge204_> What's the feedback method for the servo controls? I guess for spindles you'd have a tach input, but for position would you go with something on the motor and dead-recon it or would you use a sensor teh length of the axis?
[13:19:41] <pcw_home> most common is rotary encoder on motor shaft
[13:19:55] <ssi> even spindles usually have encoders, not tachs
[13:20:02] <Smidge204_> fair enough
[13:20:03] <PetefromTn_> some have linear glass scales.
[13:20:07] <PetefromTn_> some have both.
[13:20:42] <ssi> usually big machines are tight enough that rotary encoders are enough... they don't have slop or lose motion
[13:21:32] <pcw_home> tachometers are pretty much obsolete (though still needed for some older drives)
[13:21:53] <ssi> yeah my hnc has them :/
[13:21:56] <ssi> source of much ire
[13:22:09] <ssi> I probably could replace the drives with some torque mode drives and get away from the tachs
[13:22:27] <ssi> also those hiak drives are enormous
[13:22:38] <PetefromTn_> or you could just bag it all and let me come pick that nuisance bastard up!
[13:22:47] <ssi> :P
[13:23:32] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/07/30/3d-printing-vdk6000-robotic-work-center/
[13:24:17] <CaptHindsight> ^^ 3D printer that probably doesn't use any *duinos, smoothies, marlins etc etc
[13:24:50] <Smidge204_> Again, repraps are designed to be cheap :D
[13:25:05] <Smidge204_> Well, inexpensive... but they're also cheap
[13:25:31] <kfoltman> >$100000 devices don't use $10 electronics, news at 11 ;)
[13:25:43] <Smidge204_> ^
[13:28:07] * JT-Shop notes that making and extra one was smart
[13:28:32] <PetefromTn_> ALWAYS make an extra one at least one..
[13:28:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140804-upgraded-uncia-hits-indiegogo-dlp-3d-printer.html this one might use the Rpi, it just has 1 axis and sends monochrome images to a projector
[13:28:48] <Smidge204_> Why build one when you can have two for twice the price?
[13:29:19] <PetefromTn_> more like two for just a smidge more
[13:29:37] <CaptHindsight> German stepper and Italian steel belt
[13:29:43] <Smidge204_> Ruins the quote but that's okay!
[13:30:11] <PetefromTn_> Oh when it is time to sell it... CHARGE EM' LOL
[13:30:52] <PetefromTn_> just out of curiosity what is it that you have 204 smidges of exactly?
[13:31:00] <JT-Shop> I had to make 32 so I started with 33 and ...
[13:31:09] <_methods> brave
[13:31:17] <_methods> only 1 extra lol
[13:31:31] <PetefromTn_> if I had to make 32 I would start with 34 or 35 usually LOL.
[13:31:42] <PetefromTn_> if I had not already made a ton of them before.
[13:32:13] <_methods> every time i make just one setup piece i end up needing 2 lol
[13:32:26] <PetefromTn_> I had to make one yesterday so I made two... of course ONE STILL STANDS!!!
[13:32:29] <archivist> who needs spares rework and repair :)
[13:32:54] <_methods> i cut it twice and it's still too short
[13:32:57] <PetefromTn_> If it is steel I actually do that usually. Tig weld the boo boo away and hit it again.
[13:33:17] <PetefromTn_> once in awhile I do aluminum too but usually not.
[13:33:34] <archivist> for my very small gears I make them till I get one in spec, done
[13:34:32] <PetefromTn_> jeez I SUCK at 3d modeling.... I need a bit of schooling on this stuff from a pro or something.
[13:34:48] <skunkworks> it is not M8 1.25... (to big almost 5/16)
[13:34:49] <_methods> what program you using?
[13:35:02] <Jymmm> MS Paint
[13:35:03] <PetefromTn_> meh nothing you would know LOL
[13:35:11] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[13:35:19] <_methods> dats funny
[13:35:22] <_methods> i use mspaint
[13:35:26] <archivist> freecad methinks
[13:35:27] * Tom_itx paints a flag on Jymmm's forehead
[13:36:09] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Blender, Bryce, Zara 3D, SolidWorks, ArtCam, some chinese thing?
[13:36:11] <PetefromTn_> I would love to be able to use Solidworks again but now that I am not working for that shop I am on my own.
[13:36:29] <PetefromTn_> Gotta revert back to freecad.
[13:36:39] <ssi> CaptHindsight: got the power side of the motors pinned out
[13:36:41] <PetefromTn_> blender is not really for machining stuff I think.
[13:36:42] <_methods> freecad works
[13:36:46] <_methods> takes some getting used to
[13:36:46] <ssi> that part was pretty easy... now for the hard side :)
[13:36:47] <Smidge204_> DesignSpark isn't completely unusable
[13:36:52] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know it is not terrible
[13:37:08] <_methods> sux you can't do assemblies
[13:37:21] <PetefromTn_> once you get a look at solidworks 2014 tho it is hard to look at anything else LOL.
[13:37:23] <Smidge204_> Don't care for it myself, though... can't do constraints. Price is right I suppose
[13:37:26] <PetefromTn_> Damn it sucks to be poor
[13:37:30] <_methods> but for single parts it works fine as long as you're not trying to do some crazy surfacing shit
[13:37:48] <Smidge204_> I've had mixed results with FreeCAD but it's been awhile, might try it again
[13:37:49] <_methods> it can do constraints
[13:37:57] <Smidge204_> SolveSpace has a lot of promise
[13:37:58] <PetefromTn_> I have actually desgined and sold several parts I did in freecad now.
[13:38:09] <Smidge204_> _methods: Designspark Mechanical?
[13:38:10] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202014-06-23%2010:32:46.png
[13:38:15] <_methods> no freecad
[13:38:19] <Smidge204_> Oh, yeah I know that
[13:38:23] <_methods> i have no idea what design spark is
[13:38:29] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/stirling/CrankS.JPG
[13:39:09] <Smidge204_> DesignSpark is free (register-ware) 3D design software that ties into RS Component's part library
[13:39:17] <PetefromTn_> nice... I designed this prototype custom battery tray in Freecad and sold the prototype.
[13:39:24] <_methods> oh god i tried that out
[13:39:36] <_methods> what a nightmare
[13:40:08] <Smidge204_> skunkworks: Nifty, what's it for?
[13:40:27] <skunkworks> just playing with stirling engines
[13:40:36] <Smidge204_> oooh I thought so!
[13:41:01] <Smidge204_> As soon as I saw that crankcase with the 90-degree offset, I thought "Alpha arrangement" :D
[13:41:07] <skunkworks> yep
[13:41:25] <cpresser> skunkworks: what CAM did you use for that part?
[13:41:26] <skunkworks> a repurposed old hvac air compressor
[13:41:29] * Smidge204_ did his college thesis project on Stirling engines
[13:41:37] <skunkworks> cpresser, me..
[13:41:57] <JT-Shop> what do you have to do on debian to install it after you boot up? I can't find an install button
[13:42:02] <cradek> me-cam
[13:42:06] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/mM1Bdoj
[13:42:19] <cradek> JT-Shop: you can't install once you're booted live. reboot and pick install on the initial menu.
[13:42:20] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, you have to use the install from the boot menu..
[13:42:45] <skunkworks> Smidge204_, neat!
[13:43:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, the new iso?
[13:43:05] <cpresser> skunkworks: as in 'brain'?
[13:43:15] <JT-Shop> yea, new iso
[13:43:34] <Tom_itx> umm, i think i got a menu and selected install
[13:43:34] <JT-Shop> I must have missed it, walked away or something while booting
[13:43:39] <skunkworks> cpresser, mostly - yes. the round parts where done on a manual lathe... the crank/crank journal was done on the k&t
[13:43:46] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/YKv2WDf Other side
[13:43:59] <Tom_itx> you'll want to figure out autologin too
[13:44:07] <Tom_itx> it's not that straightforward
[13:44:25] <_methods> spensive battery hlder lol
[13:44:25] <Tom_itx> you need to edit a conf file
[13:44:34] <cpresser> really nice work!
[13:44:37] <PetefromTn_> the prototype was..
[13:45:00] <PetefromTn_> I am hoping they get lots of orders and I can sit here and print a bunch of them
[13:45:04] <Smidge204_> skunkworks: The Alpha style always seemed to have the most promise for compact, high power to weight ratios. Eliminating as much dead volume as possible is critical
[13:45:07] <PetefromTn_> I mean MACHINE a bunch of them LOL
[13:45:16] <_methods> hahahah
[13:45:30] <Smidge204_> Which is a pain, since the regenerator is all dead space
[13:45:33] <skunkworks> Smidge204_, yes. - that is my conclusoin also..
[13:45:34] <PetefromTn_> do you think it looks okay?
[13:45:39] <_methods> coming out of the 3d printer closet eh
[13:45:48] <Smidge204_> As are the ehat exchangers
[13:45:52] <JT-Shop> I see the install now
[13:45:53] <Smidge204_> heat*
[13:46:13] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i put it on a ssd the other day
[13:46:23] <PetefromTn_> It actually fits the new kinetic small battery and the whole thing is much smaller and lighter than a traditional battery.
[13:46:31] <Tom_itx> haven't had much time to mess with it
[13:46:49] <Smidge204_> Could maybe get around that with absurd compression ratios and high temp differential
[13:47:15] <skunkworks> I want to try different heat exchangers..
[13:47:17] <skunkworks> bbl
[13:48:05] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/gaNowb6
[13:48:32] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, https://wiki.debian.org/LightDM#Enable_autologin
[13:48:35] <Tom_itx> when you get that far
[13:49:31] <PetefromTn_> BBL gotta pickup my kids from school
[13:57:44] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, thanks
[13:58:39] * JT-Shop is making parts now and wiping out windoze with debian on the old HP
[14:11:50] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I think the DB9 cables that came with these motors are wired to only break out the halls, not the encoders
[14:11:54] <ssi> weird
[14:15:57] <ssi> I guess I'm gonna rewire them with DB25s
[14:21:12] <cpresser> ssi: which laser-psu did you use? do you have a datasheet?
[14:21:37] <ssi> some chinese POS, and no
[14:21:40] <cpresser> i am currently trying to figure out if i can retrofit mine to have a PPI-Style-control
[14:22:00] <ssi> should be able to
[14:22:01] <cpresser> mine looks exaclty the same as this: http://en.jnmydy.com/products_detail/&productId=4f7a1603-e335-44dd-ac94-711a4a6bdde7.html
[14:22:40] <ssi> that's different than mine
[14:22:43] <ssi> what're the pins labeled?
[14:23:07] <cpresser> https://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/pictures/_unsorted/laserPSU.jpg
[14:23:13] <asah> having servoing issues with the 8i20.
[14:23:46] <asah> I hooked up my servo to the mill and am starting to jog around.
[14:24:10] <ssi> cpresser: looks like WP is waterpump interlock, TL is active-low fire
[14:24:13] <ssi> not sure about "IN"
[14:24:15] <asah> seems like I can jog a bit, then the amp stops, and goes back a little bit.
[14:24:16] <cpresser> i cant seem to find a datasheet telling me what the pins are actually for
[14:24:57] <asah> I know that is super vague.
[14:25:19] <cpresser> let me check what WP is connected to. i guess its the security switch which checks if the water is actually okay
[14:25:22] <asah> it looks like the current it pegged max at that point.
[14:25:24] <pcw_home> if you cant move smoothly a long distance that sounds like commutation issues
[14:25:39] <asah> seems to commutate well on the bench though.
[14:25:52] <asah> and I can go several full revs sometimes.
[14:26:09] <asah> then it goes pop (diengaging sound)
[14:26:28] <asah> and it unwinds a bit.
[14:26:41] <asah> it could be power supply browning out?
[14:26:49] <asah> how would I check this in the 8i20?
[14:27:20] <pcw_home> read the bus voltage hal pin (and current)
[14:27:42] <pcw_home> (PID output)
[14:27:46] <asah> I went through and cleaned up my setup, added choke etc.
[14:28:00] <asah> now signal is routed away from power etc.
[14:28:21] <JT-Shop> what is the name of the editor in debian?
[14:28:31] <ssi> vi? :)
[14:28:44] <JT-Shop> ok
[14:28:47] <asah> JT-Shop: sublime is the best text editor on earth.
[14:28:55] <asah> sublime text that is.
[14:28:57] <asah> =)
[14:29:03] <asah> there is a .deb of it.
[14:29:09] <PetefromTn_> Mmmmmm Cheese danish!
[14:30:19] <JT-Shop> vi is too confusing
[14:30:21] <ReadError> sublime is payware
[14:30:29] <ReadError> but winrar style
[14:30:36] <ssi> nagware
[14:30:55] <asah> pcw_home: keep getting these sserial com errors.
[14:30:56] <ReadError> ssi, did you do an adjustable Z bed on your laser?
[14:31:00] <ssi> nope
[14:33:27] <asah> bus sags from 169.59 down to 165.75
[14:35:30] <JT-Shop> mousepad is ok
[14:36:27] <JT-Shop> look at the list of editors, dang that is a bunch https://packages.debian.org/stable/editors/
[14:37:47] <cpresser> ssi: i found some datasheets for similar psu-devices. they all say 'min puls width = 1ms'. thats just 1kHz max frequency for the PPI control. at 50% DC this will give me a max resolution of 500ppi. doesnt sound that good :/
[14:38:18] <ReadError> vim is nice once you learn it
[14:38:29] <ReadError> emacs is just gross
[14:41:48] <ssi> cpresser: in ppi mode, your pulse width is determined ahead of time, and you want it set to like 2.5 or 3ms anyway
[14:41:59] <ssi> cpresser: and that's pulses per INCH, not pulses per second
[14:42:15] <ssi> there will be a speed at which anything faster is CW
[14:42:19] <ssi> and the component accounts for that
[14:42:48] <ssi> the pulse width is the time where the laser is in its HV start transient response, and making more than average power
[14:43:11] <cpresser> component as in hal-comp?
[14:43:13] <ssi> yes
[14:43:46] <ssi> so for instance, I can cut well at 20ipm, 5000ppi
[14:43:51] * cpresser didnt know there was already a comp for that
[14:43:54] <ssi> that's an inch every 3 seconds
[14:44:13] <ssi> or 1666 pulses per second, with a 2.5ms on time
[14:44:28] <ssi> that'd be continuous
[14:45:58] <ssi> https://github.com/ianmcmahon/linuxcnc_configs/tree/master/laser
[14:46:02] <ssi> hopefully that helps :)
[14:46:16] <ssi> it's based on this: https://github.com/bjj/2x_laser
[14:46:35] <cpresser> whoo cool!
[14:46:43] <ssi> :)
[14:47:05] <ssi> not everything in my setup is perfect yet, but mostly it all works
[14:47:13] <ssi> ppi mode and raster mode were the most recent additions
[14:47:21] <ssi> I don't have a magic Z axis like a lot of people do
[14:47:44] <cpresser> i have Z, but i dont use it most of the time :)
[14:47:54] <ssi> I don't mean the bed
[14:48:15] <ssi> magic Z is the way that 2x_laser project is set up, and it means that whenever Z goes negative, it fires the laser
[14:48:21] <ssi> he's got the bed set up as U
[14:48:23] <PCW> asah: com errors mean noise coupled into the serial communications
[14:48:25] <PCW> look carefully at motor grounding (motor frame ground return to 8I20 frame ground)
[14:48:26] <PCW> 8I20 frame grounding, common mode choke around U,V,W. (not motor ground)
[14:48:28] <PCW> motor (UVW) and motor power wires away from serial lines
[14:48:31] * Jymmm has auto-focus Z and loves it.
[14:48:43] <ssi> Jymmm: does it auto-focus while cutting?
[14:48:53] <ssi> to account for non-flat material?
[14:49:18] <Jymmm> no laser that I know of does dynamic height
[14:49:22] <cpresser> ssi: ah okay. i might do the same. z<0 fires seems usefull for CAM
[14:49:22] <ssi> ok
[14:49:23] <asah> when it stops it is acting exactly the same as it as when com errors make it stop. that is my “sagging and rewinding” behavior sometimes happens without a coms error, but it looks exactly the same I think.
[14:49:31] <ssi> that's one thing I'd like to have, because plywood isn't flat :P
[14:49:41] * cpresser will do dynamic height :D
[14:49:45] <ssi> cpresser: yeah it could be useful, but I just wrote a sheetcam post which does it
[14:49:46] <asah> I am not returning frame ground to 8i20 frame ground directly.
[14:50:02] <ssi> Jymmm: if you have a motorized focus height, dynamic height control is feasible
[14:50:09] <asah> I am grounding motor frame to a metal enclosure. the 8i20 ground is connected to that metal enclosure.
[14:50:13] <ssi> Jymmm: I don't have motorized focus height, and I'm not sure how to add it
[14:50:38] <Jymmm> ssi: 4 leadscrews, one belt
[14:50:44] <asah> is that fair, or should I wire it direct?
[14:51:06] <ssi> oh I see
[14:51:15] <PCW> That should be OK
[14:51:16] <asah> motor and motor power lines are at least 10 cm or so away from serial lines.
[14:51:17] <PCW> and ferrite bead over U,V,W only?
[14:51:19] <ssi> my head has variable focus
[14:51:20] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuIYL4rIAAArx6b.jpg:large
[14:51:24] <ssi> bed is fixed
[14:51:32] <ssi> have been thinking about ways to automate the head focus
[14:52:08] <ssi> but I really only care for following warped material
[14:52:18] <ssi> as far as setting focus, I just drop the nozzle on a jo block and lock it down
[14:52:32] <asah> yes. only.
[14:52:47] <asah> wrapped wires once around ferrite.
[14:53:00] <ReadError> air assist is to stop material from catching fire?
[14:53:32] <cpresser> to keep the lens clean from fumes
[14:53:47] <asah> there is no difference between the two pins labeled “chassis ground” 1 and 9 correct?
[14:53:59] <ssi> both heh
[14:54:06] * JT-Shop has 2.6.1 on debian running now... easy once you know how
[14:54:10] <ssi> also to assist in thicker cuts
[14:54:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ...just like open heart surgey.
[15:00:44] <JT-Shop> DIY open heart surgery!
[15:01:35] <ReadError> ssi, I want to do a 100-120W one
[15:01:43] <ReadError> just need $time
[15:02:56] <Smidge204_> mmm lasers.
[15:04:54] <jdh> 1000-1200w
[15:07:14] <asah> peter, looks like it was mechanically dependant?… Ill keep digging.
[15:12:15] <asah> I was in a zone of the ballscrews where it was much harder to move in one direction vs the other.
[15:12:33] <asah> it was towards one end.
[15:13:18] <asah> the odd thing is it was easier to turn towards the end, than to back away.
[15:13:42] <asah> and I was trying to back away from the end of travel, towards the center.
[15:14:04] <asah> I manually spun back away and now the jogging is fine in both directions.
[15:14:10] <asah> strangeness.
[15:14:45] <asah> I have the following error (FERROR) set very high so it would not trip out.
[15:15:08] <asah> so I was probably seeing behavior that is not normally seen in a tuned system.
[15:15:19] <asah> ah, so many parameters, such large space. =)
[15:15:43] <asah> ok, who has a good idea on how to use amp_enable with a wake and shake system
[15:16:57] <asah> I want amp enable to go low with user-enable-out for joint following errors etc., but I need amp_enable to be high for the wake and shake process (bldc.init) , which I currently have currently being fired off from iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[15:42:17] <ssi> ReadError: my plan is to upgarde to a 100W RECI tube at some point in the near future
[15:42:51] <PCW> The you can really set you neighbors on fire
[15:43:04] <ssi> yep!
[15:43:22] <ssi> yesterday i built downdraft exhaust for the table
[15:43:29] <ssi> tonight I need to wire up the blower
[15:43:45] <ssi> have a 500cfm 6" blower for it
[15:43:57] <ssi> ducted to the outside
[15:44:09] <ssi> the big blue room
[16:15:36] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i installed gedit
[16:16:34] <Tom_itx> since i was used to it
[16:16:57] <JT-Shop> does debian use apt-get?
[16:17:07] <JT-Shop> I can use the package manager
[16:17:56] <asah> yes it does.
[16:17:59] <asah> sudo apt-get install gedit
[16:22:07] <Tom_itx> i just used the package manager for that
[16:32:10] <JT-Shop> I can't find it in the synaptic package manager and apt-get install can't find it either
[16:33:16] <Tom_itx> refresh it
[16:33:29] <Tom_itx> it's there... or at least it was for me
[16:34:19] <Jymmm> sudo apt-get update;apt-cache search gedit;
[16:34:52] <Deejay> gn8
[16:34:58] <Jymmm> GN9
[16:35:08] <Tom_itx> or ctrl-r in the manager
[16:35:18] <Tom_itx> G10
[16:45:26] <JT-Shop> apt-get update did the trick
[16:45:31] <JT-Shop> thanks Tom_itx
[16:46:14] * Jymmm smacks JT-Shop
[16:46:34] * Tom_itx snickers
[16:46:57] * Jymmm smacks Tom_itx for GP!
[16:52:02] <asah> damn… keep getting runaways!
[16:52:43] <asah> what is the correct signal to hook up to joint foillowing error to disable my amps?
[17:00:33] <Swapper_> PCW: a question, will the 6i25 support stepgens on P2 if u use a "cheap bob" and a correct bitfile for the job?
[17:00:52] <PCW> yes
[17:00:56] <Swapper_> have a A axis that need hw stepgens
[17:01:06] <Swapper_> but only have 7i77
[17:01:14] <Swapper_> sounds perfect for me
[17:01:52] <Swapper_> so basicly all stepgen magic is done in the 6i25 and not in the bobs ?
[17:02:37] <PCW> Yep
[17:03:32] <Swapper_> where can i find a bitfile that supports that combo ?
[17:03:40] <Swapper_> 7i77 + bob
[17:09:16] <PCW> I dont think there is one but I can whip one up in a bit
[17:09:34] <Swapper_> ah, would be perfect if you could!
[17:11:12] <asah> PCW: so my com errors seem related to jog speed. If I keep the jog speeds below some limit I am fine. above and coms error.
[17:11:40] <asah> I suppose that points towards noise, as speed means higher current moving around no?
[17:12:00] <Swapper_> asah: what version are you running ?
[17:12:11] <PCW> yes, seems likely
[17:12:12] <asah> master
[17:12:28] <Swapper_> asah: i have gotten some weerd coms errors after upgrading
[17:12:44] <Swapper_> comes some times when i start up LCNC
[17:12:48] <asah> 8i20 coms eror smart serial card error 13.
[17:13:07] <asah> PCW thinks its likely due to machine noise.
[17:13:13] <asah> is a CRC error
[17:13:41] <asah> I am not running with a brake resistor on the 8i20 (cringes)
[17:13:48] <asah> but I have one in my power supply.
[17:13:54] <Swapper_> ok
[17:14:03] <PCW> you should be safe at 160V
[17:15:32] <asah> really weird! what shielding lengths should I be going to to get clean coms? The 8i20 is being commanded to full current in my sagging faults. scary! not sure if these are related.
[17:19:43] <PCW> PID is doing that probably (its probabyl behind)
[17:20:40] <asah> yeah, going to try and capture a scope trace.
[17:20:53] <asah> I am only using P term though.
[17:21:24] <asah> so I would think this would be super stable.
[17:24:35] <PCW> thats pretty strange (maybe its something else like noise in the encoder causing commutation errors which can result in runaway)
[17:25:18] <PCW> might try lowering the encoder signal bandwidth
[17:26:32] <asah> how would I do that? these encoders are fixed.
[17:26:47] <asah> (this is my mill, not the other stuff)
[17:28:16] <PCW> in master you can set the encoder filter rate
[17:28:34] <PCW> also do you have the filter bit set on the encoders?
[17:28:59] <asah> encoder.filter is 1
[17:29:04] <asah> counter-mode 0
[17:30:24] <asah> weird!!!!
[17:30:36] <asah> didn’t respond to amp disable.
[17:31:47] <asah> am estopping the power line to kill it.
[17:41:46] <asah> goint to try a different 8i20.
[17:43:41] <PCW> check the disable pins with a DVM
[17:52:29] <asah> I am using a 24v line from the 7i71 to feed the hw enable on the amp.
[17:52:47] <asah> just in case I am pulling a fresh master and recompiling.
[18:03:32] <Swapper_> PCW: i got sim errors as asah regarding serial timout http://picpaste.com/Capture-N5ke0jFE.PNG
[18:03:41] <Swapper_> got that since i changed to master
[18:04:17] <asah> thats the one!
[18:04:33] <asah> what is your servo rate? I am at 4 hkz
[18:04:53] <Swapper_> ill check
[18:05:25] <PCW> 5V power issue on 7I77?
[18:05:45] <PCW> looks like you lost all communications
[18:06:11] <Swapper_> same comp as before
[18:06:17] <Swapper_> noting changed
[18:06:34] <Swapper_> and it comes only at sporadic starts
[18:06:42] <Swapper_> when i restart lcnc it goes away
[18:08:19] <PCW> i only get that if I pull 5V power
[18:09:27] <PCW> where does your 5V power come from?
[18:09:36] <Swapper_> the computer
[18:10:03] <Swapper_> and 24v in the control cabinet
[18:11:10] <Swapper_> asah: SERVO_PERIOD = 1000000
[18:14:32] <PCW> sounds like 5V problem to me (just started 20 times no sserial errors, master as of a couple weeks ago, rebuilding current now)
[18:16:06] <asah> would this power problem be relevent to me? my sserial is a 7i44
[18:16:51] <PCW> possibly... Check 5V at 7I44
[18:17:37] <asah> currently getting power for it via cable from computer.
[18:18:17] <Swapper_> hum, i do have rebooted and disconnected the cable to the computer, does the 7i77 need a "init" or somting that its not getting the first time i start?
[18:18:51] <PCW> yeah if you have a lot of I/O that may be insufficient
[18:20:17] <Swapper_> PCW: cant repeat the error now, upgraded to latest master
[18:20:27] <Swapper_> ill let you know if i get it again
[18:20:44] <Swapper_> if its only at first startup i dont care much
[18:20:49] <PCW> Swapper_: not sure what you are saying (but hot plugging the 7I77 with I/O/encoderss connected is not a good idea in general)
[18:21:41] <PCW> This indicates a power problem, you should not see such errors
[18:22:18] <Swapper_> ah ok so hotplug is a bad idea,, :)
[18:22:24] <Swapper_> roger that
[18:24:32] <PCW> well you may find that the machine ground differs from the PC ground enough that its hazardous
[18:26:24] <Swapper_> yea, did not tink that far
[18:26:34] <Swapper_> ty anyway for the info
[18:29:10] <PCW> compiling 7i77_GBOB
[18:29:21] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuT4pqpIYAASPlA.jpg:large
[18:29:25] <ssi> PITA factor: high
[18:31:52] <PCW> cable ends missing?
[18:32:50] <ssi> the cables that came with the motors had DB9s which just broke out the hall sensors
[18:33:00] <ssi> and the drives use amp champ series II connectors
[18:33:08] <Swapper_> ssi: dont know how many hours i have spent soldering overly priced 50pole servo amp connectors
[18:33:14] <ssi> so I had to reterminate the yellow cable to a DB25 to break out encoders as well, and solder those stupid amp connectors
[18:33:25] <PCW> argh
[18:33:37] <ssi> Swapper_: heh yeah, I have two more of these 26 pin ones to do, and then the three 50 pin connectors that go to the control
[18:34:25] <Swapper_> the drive looks like kollmorgen
[18:34:29] <Swapper_> but its not?
[18:34:30] <ssi> it's parker gemini
[18:34:31] <Swapper_> parker?
[18:34:42] <Swapper_> are they related?
[18:34:45] <ssi> dunno
[18:35:14] <PCW> Swapper_: freeby.mesanet.com/5i25_7i77_gbob.bit
[18:35:27] <Swapper_> PCW: thanks!
[18:35:59] <PCW> no pin file but the latest version of mesaflash can make one
[18:36:00] <Swapper_> PCW: if i whant to go back to the flash im running today, where can i find that?
[18:36:09] <ssi> it's 2x7i77 probably
[18:36:13] <ssi> or 7i77x2 maybe
[18:36:33] <PCW> yeah in the 5i25.zip file 5i25_7i77x2.bit
[18:37:18] <ssi> the other end of the phase/brake cables that came with the motors is a CPC-9
[18:37:25] <ssi> I don't have any mating parts for it
[18:37:35] <ssi> I guess I need to order some
[18:37:42] <Swapper_> the round ones +
[18:37:46] <Swapper_> on the picture?
[18:38:16] <ssi> no, they're not pictured
[18:38:20] <Swapper_> ok
[18:38:30] <ssi> the one you can see in the picture is whatever goofy connector parker uses
[18:38:37] <ssi> I have cables that are that on one side and CPC-9 on the other
[18:39:10] <ssi> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/211768-1/?qs=KXEaBJK1In7bjTjl2iPk/Q==
[18:40:09] <Swapper_> ahh
[18:40:15] <ssi> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1-213826-1/1-213826-1-ND/1892776
[18:40:20] <ssi> that'd be the mating part I need
[18:40:43] <ssi> of course they're balls expensive :)
[18:41:03] <Swapper_> theres still one connector im looking for and its the power connector for a yaskawa 750W amp, not the same as the 400W version aperently....
[18:41:11] <Swapper_> and some weerd spacing
[18:41:36] <Swapper_> looks a lot like a wago board plug
[18:42:37] <ssi> stupid pins for cpc are a dollar apiece :(
[18:43:09] <ssi> if it wasn't going to cost a million dollars I'd use 16 position CPC instead of DB25 for the encoder cable
[18:44:54] <Swapper_> i pulled all the encoder and drive lines directly to the drives in a big cable hose
[18:45:23] <Swapper_> shure its "semi" permanent but i saved a lot of hassle on connectors
[18:46:55] <ssi> yeah... mostly I'm only bothering because I have the nice cables already
[18:46:59] <ssi> they just need some... tweaking :)
[18:47:06] <asah> PCW: I don’t see a filter parameter that allows for arbitrary input
[18:47:08] <ssi> and I had to screw with the amp champ connectors no matter what
[18:47:39] <ssi> it's ridiculous... I paid $110 apiece for these drives, and I have like $70 in amp champ connectors alone
[18:47:47] <ssi> and that's without springing for the backshells!
[18:47:51] <ssi> the backshells cost more than the connector
[18:48:57] <Swapper_> ssi: its silly how much the things arround can cost.
[18:49:22] <Swapper_> Like my Kollmorgen drive in that sense since it uses DB9 for 90% of the connections
[18:49:41] <Swapper_> and i got plenty of those cheap
[18:49:46] <Swapper_> with shells :)
[18:54:02] <ssi> yeah I have no problem with DB connectors
[18:54:15] <ssi> they're inexpensive and reliable
[18:54:29] <ssi> and I have all the necessary tools
[19:05:33] <asah> PCW: it looks like the 8i20 is ignoring the “enable in”
[19:05:55] <asah> I have it disconnected and the drive ist still powered up and working.
[19:06:22] <PCW> what? thats weird
[19:06:28] <asah> yeah.
[19:06:34] <asah> totally disconnected the cable.
[19:06:51] <asah> sounds like I really need to try another 8i20.
[19:09:09] <PCW> no enable should result in a a no enable fault (and a red light)
[19:11:10] <PCW> I will try and check the current 8I20 firmware for any enable weirdness
[19:11:28] <PCW> but tommorow
[19:12:04] <asah> ok. no wonder my signals weren’t stopping it from running.
[19:28:20] <asah> swapped 8i20s. this one seems to respect amp in.
[19:28:25] <XXCoder1> heys
[19:29:00] <asah> but, same runaway problem at some threshold.
[21:01:10] <PetefromTn_Andro> evening folks
[21:01:16] <jdh> whuttupe pete
[21:01:28] <PetefromTn_Andro> men not a lot.
[21:01:36] <PetefromTn_Andro> meh
[21:01:51] <jdh> heh
[21:02:10] <PetefromTn_Andro> working on this damn new riser design and it's just not flowing
[21:03:31] <PetefromTn_Andro> got the basics down but trying to make the shall
[21:03:50] <PetefromTn_Andro> shape look elegant and follow the design of the rifle.
[21:04:37] <PetefromTn_Andro> what are you up to?
[21:11:57] <ssi> peet
[21:14:42] <XXCoder1> chillin'
[21:14:45] <PetefromTn_Andro> ssi hey man
[21:15:10] <ssi> why so andro lately
[21:15:59] <PetefromTn_Andro> it's my cellphone I link with when I head upstairs to bed but don't really feel like sleepin' yet LOL
[21:17:01] <PetefromTn_Andro> just hookup the studio monitor headphones choose one of my favorite mellow tracks and login here to see whutzup
[21:18:08] <PetefromTn_Andro> I think I need a nice new pair of headphones tho these have seen better days.
[21:18:21] <PetefromTn_Andro> any suggestions?
[21:29:53] <PetefromTn_Andro> was thinking about the vmc today while I was running it earlier.
[21:30:29] <PetefromTn_Andro> when I finally get the spindle encoder installed and start playing with the toolchanger
[21:30:50] <Tom_itx> you will be PetefromFl by then
[21:31:04] <PetefromTn_Andro> I was thinking about my practice of limiting the Max velocities etc.
[21:31:29] <PetefromTn_Andro> hardee har harr
[21:31:35] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:32:03] <ChuangTzu_> lol
[21:32:16] <PetefromTn_Andro> If the setup of each movement is timed limited will that screw things up?
[21:32:17] <ChuangTzu_> someone said "whutzup
[21:32:18] <ChuangTzu_> "
[21:32:21] <ChuangTzu_> and it pinged me
[21:32:32] <ChuangTzu_> (it was pete)
[21:32:56] <PetefromTn_Andro> sorry dude but not sure why it would have pinged you really
[21:33:31] <PetefromTn_Andro> maybe it's dislexic?
[21:37:47] <skunkworks_> PetefromTn_Andro: time limited?
[21:39:58] <PetefromTn_Andro> huh?
[21:41:38] <skunkworks_> PetefromTn_Andro If the setup of each movement is timed limited will that screw things up?
[21:43:34] <PetefromTn_Andro> that's what I am asking yeah ...from the little I understand of it everything is timed to ensure things work accordingly and if something takes too long to happen it will error out.
[21:49:39] <PetefromTn_Andro> in regard to the sequences of the toolchange.
[21:54:48] <skunkworks_> there isn't things like switches that tell you the arm is in certain locations?
[21:55:15] <PetefromTn_Andro> sure is
[21:55:33] <PetefromTn_Andro> both states
[21:56:10] <PetefromTn_Andro> but I understood that it still was timed action
[21:58:05] <PetefromTn_Andro> perhaps I am overthinking things
[21:58:15] <skunkworks_> well - I would setup ladder that would say - do this, wait for that, do the next thing, wait for that and so on. (then if you are really fancy you have a timer running and then maybe estop if it takes too long)
[21:59:13] <PetefromTn_Andro> yes that is exactly what I meant only in something other than ladder
[21:59:35] <skunkworks_> why? ladder is made for this sort of thing...
[22:00:17] <PetefromTn_Andro> would limitations on Max velocity affect this kind of operation ?
[22:00:53] <skunkworks_> not if you take that into account.. there are things like 'in position' hal pins - so you would wait for the move to be 'in position'
[22:01:30] <PetefromTn_Andro> sure but it does not allow movement during it's operation to raise and lower the millhead
[22:01:55] <skunkworks_> what is it?
[22:02:13] <PetefromTn_Andro> that is why we were looking into remap
[22:02:15] <skunkworks_> linuxcnc? it does now - you would create a tool change remap.
[22:02:21] <skunkworks_> right
[22:02:55] <skunkworks_> (and I am only thinking about this big picture... I seems doable... but I am sure there are some things that will take some though)
[22:03:02] <skunkworks_> thought
[22:03:43] <PetefromTn_Andro> so assuming all of that would tweaking Max velocity cause problems?
[22:04:14] <skunkworks_> I think you can make it so it isn't a problem.. it will just take longer to complete the cycle..
[22:05:15] <PetefromTn_Andro> that's fine as long as it functions correctly and does not error out
[22:05:48] <skunkworks_> you get extra credit points if you make it gracefully fail...
[22:06:35] <PetefromTn_Andro> no room for failure man.
[22:06:45] <skunkworks_> our big machine - if the tool change fails.. (which I don't think it has since we converted it..) you have to put everything back to its right position manually...
[22:07:21] <skunkworks_> some day I should make a nice control panel that would allow you to twiddle the thing manually
[22:07:24] <PetefromTn_Andro> nice
[22:07:49] <PetefromTn_Andro> twiddling is good
[22:09:59] <ssi> lol
[22:12:22] <PetefromTn_Andro> laugh it up chucklehead ;)
[22:14:17] <ssi> MAYBE I WILL
[22:14:56] <ssi> hm is there a way to tie three signals together in hal?
[22:15:05] <Tom_itx> and
[22:15:15] <ssi> well... that's not exactly what I need
[22:15:19] <ssi> what I need is sort of goofy
[22:15:24] <ssi> because I really can just name them all the same thing
[22:15:25] <ssi> but I don't want to
[22:15:26] <Tom_itx> figures
[22:15:47] <ssi> I have a coolant-pump signal, and an air-assist signal
[22:15:49] <ssi> and those drive relays
[22:16:05] <ssi> those two get and'd together to create laser-interlock, which drives the enable of the power supply
[22:16:18] <ssi> up to now I've been driving those with coolant-flood and coolant-mist
[22:16:26] <ssi> but I'm thinking I'm going to change them both to come on automatically with laser-master
[22:16:40] <ssi> so I want to make laser-master drive both coolant-pump and air-assist
[22:16:47] <ssi> but I'd prefer to not just rename them all laser-master, if you know what I mean
[22:16:52] <ssi> it muddies up the intent of the hal
[22:17:17] <ssi> but I think if I just do net laser-master => coolant-pump air-assist, it's gonna complain
[22:19:05] <ssi> I can do something super silly like use two or components with nothing attached to the other pin
[22:20:50] <Tom_itx> i don't think it will complain about that
[22:21:23] <ssi> it doen
[22:21:25] <ssi> does
[22:21:37] <ssi> "pin 'coolant-pump' does not exist"
[22:21:42] <ssi> cause it's a signal, not a pin
[22:21:56] <Tom_itx> that was the next question...
[22:22:18] <Tom_itx> it should be a pin if it's driving a relay
[22:22:32] <ssi> there is a pin underneath it
[22:22:37] <ssi> this is just the signal that I named it for clarity
[22:22:52] <Tom_itx> don't think you can do that
[22:23:06] <Tom_itx> because it's already assigned a signal name
[22:24:08] <ssi> yeah, that's why I asked :)
[22:24:17] <ssi> I'm just doing it a dumb way using an or component
[22:24:53] <Tom_itx> i was trying to do some pretty convoluted stuff with my pendant at one point
[22:26:07] <ssi> slowly but surely I'm gonna get all the little details ironed out on this machine
[22:26:25] <Tom_itx> it takes time to get what you want
[22:28:00] <ssi> yep :)
[22:28:52] <Tom_itx> i was getting some unpredictable results at one point
[22:29:08] <Tom_itx> but i think i finally got it somewhat where i wanted it
[22:30:40] <Tom_itx> did you get the shake out of your table?
[22:30:56] <ssi> no, but it's pretty negligible for cutting
[22:31:04] <ssi> it'll be important once I start doing engraving
[22:31:14] <ssi> exhaust blower is pretty quiet... sweet
[22:32:47] <Tom_itx> well, gnite.
[22:33:10] <ssi> refrigerated air dryer seems to be working well
[22:33:18] <ssi> hasn't been a drop of water in the trap downstream of it since I put it in
[22:53:02] <ssi> my masking tape has gone missing
[23:23:29] <XXCoder1> hey ssi
[23:23:55] <XXCoder1> any new cuts so far lol
[23:25:38] <ssi> been working on little stuff
[23:25:43] <ssi> downdraft exhaust system is in place
[23:26:32] <XXCoder1> it removes smoke from laser cut?
[23:26:59] <ssi> YA
[23:27:01] <ssi> er, ya
[23:27:31] <ssi> it works ok; hoping it'll work better once I get the machine enclosed
[23:27:56] <XXCoder1> interesting. why would enclosure help
[23:28:12] <ssi> so the smoke has nowhere to go but down
[23:28:24] <XXCoder1> ahh so it dont infere with laser
[23:28:34] <ssi> well air assist already keeps it from interfering with the laser
[23:28:44] <ssi> I want to keep it from interfering with the smell of my house :)
[23:28:52] <XXCoder1> lol ok
[23:29:52] <ssi> got the backplot bug fixed; that's exciting
[23:29:57] <ssi> and the homing issues
[23:32:56] <XXCoder1> awesome :) I have been running harco vm10 cnc mill and been learning a whole lot.