#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-07-31

[01:13:24] <archivist> bench too tidy error
[01:26:39] <Jymmm> hrh
[01:26:41] <Jymmm> heh
[01:57:31] <Deejay> moin
[04:39:06] <kfoltman> using T slot table on the Z axis to allow swappable spindles - stupid or not?
[04:39:53] <syyl_> i have seen it on a few machines
[04:40:01] <syyl_> i think its not the badest idea
[04:40:26] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/qtl2_2.jpg
[04:40:36] <syyl_> on this machine we had such a setup
[04:40:56] <CaptHindsight> if it's rigid enough for the application why not
[04:40:56] <kfoltman> isn't that just a 8020 extrusion or something?
[04:41:18] <syyl_> no, everything on that machine is cast iron or welded steel
[04:41:30] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: I'm not sure about that, but the rest of my machine is 18mm plywood, and the table is maybe 10mm
[04:41:43] <kfoltman> 18 or 36 depending on the part
[04:42:11] <kfoltman> the table is a 10mm t-slot aluminium extrusion, that is (the cheap one with 8mm and 5mm slots)
[04:42:44] <kfoltman> or, maybe not 10mm
[04:43:02] <kfoltman> 16mm
[04:43:16] <kfoltman> ok, so this is not *obviously* a dumb idea then?
[04:43:24] <syyl_> dont think so
[04:43:33] <syyl_> i have this setup even seen on jig grinders
[04:43:40] <syyl_> to swap spindles/spindlemounts
[04:52:40] <SpeedEvil> kfoltman: I'm strongly thinking of that for my thingy
[04:52:55] <SpeedEvil> kfoltman: Router/3d printer/laser/...
[04:53:15] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: I already have a laser diode and a half-built crappy extruder, so it's kind of a natural choice
[04:53:24] <kfoltman> and I like Loetmichel's idea of using the spindle sideways
[04:53:39] <kfoltman> or, at an angle
[04:53:42] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[04:53:45] <kfoltman> (but that's not doable with this setup)
[04:54:02] <kfoltman> but I can have a hanging mount perhaps
[04:54:14] <SpeedEvil> I had the idea of using a LASER diode to preheat the area where the extruder is about to deposit.
[04:54:22] <SpeedEvil> To improve adhesion
[04:55:25] <kfoltman> it may be too sensitive to colour of the material
[04:55:32] <kfoltman> but not a bad idea in general
[05:00:59] <CaptHindsight> hot melt not sticking?
[05:36:02] <kfoltman> Loetmichel, others: any good reason to go above 800W spindle power in a wooden machine?
[05:38:13] <kfoltman> the prices for 800W, 1.5kW and 2.2kW don't seem all that different
[05:42:01] <Loetmichel> i would use the 800W
[05:42:05] <Loetmichel> because of size
[05:42:08] <Loetmichel> and weight
[05:42:56] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: to preheat an area of something i would use a focussed halogen lamp
[05:43:02] <Loetmichel> not a laser
[05:43:29] <Loetmichel> much less p power required for the same heat generated, small, easy
[05:44:19] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: the ER11 collet is one limitation I can remember, but that's probably fine
[05:50:01] <Loetmichel> kfoltman. there are 8mm collets fpr ER11
[05:50:04] <Loetmichel> for
[05:50:13] <Loetmichel> so its not THAT of a limitation
[05:50:46] <Loetmichel> ... which can take standard tungsten carbide router bits
[05:56:40] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: going to order it+inverter+mount tomorrow, as well as new X rails (SBR16-600) and possibly a bigger t-slot table
[06:02:39] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: I mean specifically pointed at the ~0.3mm diameter or whatever just in front of the head
[06:02:46] <SpeedEvil> Not a general preheat
[07:06:13] <kfoltman> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/260877959444 where's the catch?
[07:08:52] <archivist_herron> the catch is it is really in china, they mean it ships from the container in a month
[07:11:57] <kfoltman> archivist: they claim UK shipping
[07:12:53] <kfoltman> whether that's true is another thing
[07:17:05] <Tom_itx> holding the spindle from the far end looks like it could chatter alot to me
[07:36:11] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: i meant thet, too
[07:36:20] <Loetmichel> although i would heaqt about 1mm in diameter
[10:04:10] <ssi> morn
[11:29:56] <K6MLE> Good morning ...
[11:32:23] <tjtr33> hahaha will it flush? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkOaQNiKgoo
[12:14:40] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:14:53] <IchGuckLive> quiet day here in the channel toight
[12:15:07] <IchGuckLive> HNUMC500: still online
[12:17:03] <IchGuckLive> hi K6MLE
[12:17:14] <IchGuckLive> its late evening here !
[12:17:37] <IchGuckLive> ssi how is the laser doing
[12:17:55] <K6MLE> Hi Ich. I read back through and caught your message from yesterday ... I will approach the boss later in the year (as I get closer to retirement!) and see what he thinks about me setting up the mill at home ...
[12:19:02] <IchGuckLive> Agree get the best out of it ITS just the Gecko that broke the neck of the Mill
[12:20:44] <K6MLE> At home I can take all the spare time I need to get it working ... then, since I'm the only one in the company (now) that knows how to run it and produce gcode, he might let me work it from home ... just bill him for my time ...
[12:21:17] <IchGuckLive> thats the best way to do it
[12:21:36] <K6MLE> Easy money in retirement!
[12:21:58] <IchGuckLive> depeds on gcode factor
[12:22:23] <K6MLE> Most of the gcode has been pretty simple stuff ...
[12:22:45] <K6MLE> holes and notches ...
[12:22:55] <IchGuckLive> that is your monexmaker and brain reorder
[12:23:32] <K6MLE> I have plenty already to keep the brain active ! :)
[12:23:46] <IchGuckLive> O.O dont forget to retire
[12:23:55] <IchGuckLive> as i plan to do
[12:24:02] <K6MLE> Still working on the weather station ...
[12:24:08] <K6MLE> My wife won't let me forget!
[12:24:37] <K6MLE> Then there's rebuilding my NAS box ...
[12:24:47] <K6MLE> and ham radio!
[12:24:49] <IchGuckLive> so you will get a NO Time at all pensioner
[12:24:59] <K6MLE> Heh
[12:25:13] <IchGuckLive> Bussy as in best time
[12:25:30] <K6MLE> I agree
[12:25:58] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: English help "Rentner Keine Zeit"
[12:36:02] <ssi> IchGuckLive: it's doing ok
[12:36:30] <ssi> IchGuckLive: I'm in a massive job; cutting 1150 3/4" circles in a 2x4' sheet of 5mm ply which'll sit below the honeycomb and allow ventilation
[12:36:43] <ssi> it ran several hours last night, and was cutting worse and worse
[12:37:16] <IchGuckLive> yes heat development in tube effects focus very hard
[12:37:22] <ssi> finally I shut it down for the night; today I discovered that even though the beam was entering the head fairly centered, it was hitting the bounce mirror in the head at an angle, and ablating the O-ring the mirror sits against, putting a big black spot on the mirror
[12:37:40] <ssi> so I tweaked the alignment a bit, and I think it's doing better now
[12:37:42] <IchGuckLive> ssi did you try to shot a 2D picture in a Glas window
[12:37:43] <ssi> trying to finish up that job now
[12:37:46] <ssi> no, not yet
[12:37:52] <ssi> I haven't implemented the raster stuff yet
[12:37:56] <ssi> I also need to implement pulsing
[12:38:29] <IchGuckLive> also mirror fixing might get out of alignment at heatchange
[12:39:25] <ssi> yeah... overall this is a tricky endeavor :)
[12:39:43] <ssi> the other problem I have is material flatness across my 24x48" bed
[12:39:55] <ssi> plywood is less than perfectly flat, and I have no way for the focus to follow the material
[12:40:01] <ssi> no "thc" so to speak
[12:41:49] <IchGuckLive> get the jobmoney and align a thc redlaser mesurment
[12:43:32] <ssi> yeah was thinking about that
[12:45:45] <ssi> will laser distance sensors work on non-reflective materials?
[12:46:08] <IchGuckLive> simple board LCD poti the laser diod 5mW and a fotosensor on red laser then the poty gets the fixed hight no numbers IF lower then UP pin is high if GT then Low pin is high your laser THC
[12:46:33] <ssi> I didn't entirely parse that
[12:46:50] <ssi> I have some ultrasonic distance sensors on hand; I wonder if they're accurate enough
[12:46:56] <ssi> precision IR too
[12:47:04] <ssi> might be worth playing with
[12:47:14] <IchGuckLive> as you say
[12:47:51] <IchGuckLive> only one poti is controling the Middle you like and if sensor out is lower or higher 2 pins changing polarisation
[12:48:24] <IchGuckLive> simple distance sensor modul
[12:48:42] <IchGuckLive> but keep it in 0.3mm distance accuracy
[12:51:23] <ssi> oh well there's the other problem...
[12:51:29] <ssi> I don't have a Z height adjustment :)
[12:51:37] <ssi> it's manual only
[12:52:18] <Connor> ssi You have plans to make it Z adjustable ?
[12:52:24] <ssi> I dunno
[12:52:27] <ssi> it's mostly not necessary
[12:52:32] <ssi> other than this material warpage issue
[12:52:52] <ssi> another thing i could do is add some kind of roller around the nozzle that pushes the material down to the prescribed height
[12:52:54] <Connor> Most of the ones I've seen the bed can adjust up or down.
[12:53:08] <ssi> yeah, I opted not to do that
[12:53:15] <ssi> for sheet goods I don't need it
[12:53:24] <Jymmm> hahahahahahahahahaha
[12:55:48] <ssi> ok imma go get a lunch
[13:36:30] <IchGuckLive> ok im off BYE
[13:52:59] <gene79> Anybody alive here?
[13:54:26] <gene79> I need to know how I can make the axis dro give me 2 more decimal places
[13:56:36] <gene79> I think my spindle is thermalloy growing on a long job, darned near 3 thou!
[13:58:05] <cradek> you would have to edit the source to get more decimal places.
[13:58:12] <cradek> are you in inch or mm mode?
[14:00:29] <gene79> inch atm
[14:00:57] <skunkworks> isn't inches set to 4 digits
[14:01:43] <cradek> yes
[14:02:24] <cradek> two more decimal places would give you 25 nanometer resolution.
[14:02:39] <gene79> yes it is 4 now. I am now cutting a pcb pocket in some micarta for the 3rd time because the back of the pocket is sitting 3 thou low when I put a dial on it
[14:03:33] <gene79> I've incorporated a y tilt function in my code, set to compensate for .0025 of the error
[14:03:42] <cradek> 25 nanometers is about 1/20th the wavelength of visible light
[14:04:31] <cradek> gene79: I've shimmed stuff like that by using a taken-apart set of feeler gauges
[14:04:43] <gene79> but its about a 45 minute job. I do now see the depth of cut decreasing so maybe this one will be usable.
[14:04:48] <tjtr33> gene79, is "...2 more decimal places" connected to "thermalloy growing" or just sequential statements?
[14:05:35] <gene79> Sure, but the point is that I just got done cutting that flat bottom and its off
[14:05:52] <tjtr33> cuz .000001 inch is past any of our capabilities to measure
[14:05:56] <gene79> I meant thermally growing, damn typu.
[14:06:17] <tjtr33> i understood that typo np
[14:06:32] <gene79> I have a .0001 dial indicator
[14:06:34] <skunkworks> gene79, I solved that problem.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-CdFd2Zakc&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[14:09:31] <skunkworks> (if that is actually your problem... ; ) _
[14:10:14] <gene79> Funny thing is that any spindle heating is not readly detectable by laying the back of a finger against the spinning shaft.
[14:11:09] <gene79> I cannot say for certain, but that tte same y saddle that cut the flat. but I go back that check to see if it really does moe
[14:11:33] <gene79> parallel, and in 1.15" of y, its off 3 thgou.
[14:12:39] <gene79> My compensation code seems to be working, we'll see in about 20 minutes when it all done.
[14:14:32] <gene79> Heck, its quite cutting about 75% of theway across the flat. I'll have to start with another thou of depth
[14:14:50] <jdh> what does your micarta sit on?
[14:14:53] <tjtr33> good solutions to problems, maybe think about temp of A vs B (Column vs Spindle ) instead of just A,
[14:15:00] <tjtr33> as this can be differences of thermal expansion rather than just thermal expansion( which is often uniform , no showing up in a single element )
[14:15:00] <tjtr33>
[14:16:03] <tjtr33> maybe not thermal at all, but some slack being taken up
[14:18:16] <gene79> my code, at the end of an x cycle, jumps up 20 thou, then lowers to the new cutting depth, that should handle any backlash
[14:20:18] <gene79> True, and since its about 82F in here for a while, that didn't cross my mind. That soprt of stuff is often self compensating to a large degree
[14:21:08] <tjtr33> is micarta to X travel ( way ) parallel? and table surface to way parallel? (at leastl, < 3thou over the cut lenght)
[14:21:51] <tjtr33> sorry but errors like this always point in ugly directions
[14:22:22] <MC500> I am having a problem getting 2.5 to work with a sevo to go isa card, the sample stg.ini as well as the one I built both give the same error, if somone has time to look I aprecate the help.. http://pastebin.com/29YVCjFY http://pastebin.com/JX3e8niZ
[14:22:37] <gene79> However, standing here, I just realized that is a hell of a lot of Z screw, with 15" between the rotating nut and the z sled casting, so there's another point to consider.
[14:22:50] <gene79> too many variables!
[14:23:39] <cradek> MC500: your real error is RTAI[hal]: ERROR, LOCAL APIC CONFIGURED BUT NOT AVAILABLE/ENABLED.
[14:23:45] <cradek> you may be able to turn this on in the system bios
[14:24:21] <cradek> otherwise, check out http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting#emc2_doesn_t_run_missing_lapic
[14:25:09] <cradek> MC500: if you want to replace the entire OS and move to linuxcnc 2.6, you could do that too; this lapic thing is solved in our debian wheezy based distribution
[14:27:37] <cradek> MC500: if this is a brand new installation (I suspect it is??) I'd recommend starting fresh with debian: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/52401
[14:27:41] <tjtr33> how much memory is needed for 2.5 & 2.6 ( i think thats why my ISA STG box is dusty, couldnt get more than 256meg in it )
[14:28:16] <cradek> I am actually running my lathe on a 256 meg machine, running 2.6.0 on debian wheezy
[14:28:28] <tjtr33> woot thx !
[14:28:31] <cradek> unfortunately the box does not support more ram
[14:28:38] <tjtr33> ditto
[14:28:57] <cradek> I truly doubt ubuntu10 would have worked (even installed) in 256
[14:29:25] <tjtr33> verified, i tried, but now newer will work, you guys are great
[14:29:53] <tjtr33> MC500 ok ?
[14:30:54] <cradek> KiB Mem: 252252 total, 248632 used, 3620 free, 33072 buffer
[14:30:54] <cradek> KiB Swap: 518140 total, 6884 used, 511256 free, 100228 cached
[14:31:01] <gene79> Hummn, z motors heat is telegraphing out to the rotating nut assembly quite noticeably well too.
[14:31:21] <tjtr33> (i think last i had luck with was when we used knoppix , the vitruvian penguin logo)
[14:31:24] <MC500> ok thankjs tjtr33
[14:31:37] <gene79> Top of the screw is 93F, bottom is 85F, 14" apart.
[14:31:38] <tjtr33> thank Cradek! and all the devs
[14:32:11] <tjtr33> air fan!
[14:32:28] <tjtr33> big brass nut with fins
[14:33:08] <tjtr33> old refrigerator with glass door... ;)
[14:33:20] <MC500> downloading hybrid iso thank you
[14:33:22] <jdh> cradek: what kind of lathe?
[14:33:43] <gene79> Between the plastic gears in the head, and all the fans running now, I'm going deaf. Or is that the accumulated years? :)
[14:33:46] <cradek> jdh: that one is my little sherline, retrofitted with tiny servos
[14:34:10] <cradek> I'm finally getting buttons/wheel wired up so I can run touchy on it
[14:34:20] <cradek> decade-long project
[14:34:52] <jdh> cool. I can spend another year or two on mine and not feel bad then.
[14:35:09] <gene79> You too Chris? I have one gunstock I've been whittling on since about 1970.
[14:35:33] <cradek> MC500: I would love to hear your experience with the STG driver. it doesn't have many users anymore. please let us know how it goes.
[14:35:48] <cradek> in 2.6, I mean
[14:39:02] <pcw_home> Isnt that one of the first emc supported PC hardware interface cards?
[14:39:23] <cradek> yes I think it might have been the first
[14:39:28] <cradek> it's very very old
[14:39:37] <cradek> I recall they used to sell for $888
[14:39:43] <cradek> (!!)
[14:39:49] <tjtr33> yep 888
[14:39:54] <cradek> in pre-george-w dollars!
[14:40:03] <tjtr33> for 4 axis
[14:40:39] <cradek> with not enough IO to run a bridgeport. the typical setup used a parallel port too.
[14:40:44] <pcw_home> ISTR mention of VME cards also
[14:40:48] <cradek> we've come a loooong way
[14:41:46] <cradek> I don't know what hardware was used in the days before emc ran on linux PCs
[14:42:07] <tjtr33> an interface to a PMAC
[14:43:39] <pcw_home> I think Ive figured out Stuarts Cincinatti Millicron I/O racks
[14:44:11] <cradek> cool
[14:44:27] <cradek> are there a lot of them around, or is it probably just for him?
[14:44:37] <pcw_home> so can probably drive them with one 24 bit FPGA port (with 12V level shifters)
[14:45:14] <pcw_home> Its just a interesting challenge (but there do seem to be many around)
[14:45:50] <MC500> cradek I will let you konw
[14:46:06] <tjtr33> Stuart use opto22?
[14:46:12] <jdh> We have VME DeltaTau PMAC boards. I hate them.
[14:46:42] <MC500> as long as I am on the subject what would everyone recomend to run in place of the stg, I am running 4 axis A/C servo motors with baldor drives
[14:47:05] <tjtr33> baldor brushed dc? what amps?
[14:47:32] <MC500> 25 amp
[14:47:41] <cradek> mesa 5i2x and 7i33* are the obvious replacements
[14:47:52] <MC500> brushless AC
[14:47:58] <tjtr33> i meant what drives
[14:48:31] <tjtr33> yep , what cradek said ^^^
[14:49:06] <pcw_home> Not OPTO22 but IO card racks made by Cincinatti Milicron
[14:49:08] <pcw_home> the interface is actually really simple, still need to understand the control signals and timing though
[14:49:10] <pcw_home> but 8 bit bus 4 bit rack select address (16 racks max) , 4 bit card address (16 cards/rack max) 4-6 address bits per card
[14:49:42] <tjtr33> the support from mesa is great, and not so great from STG
[14:49:46] <MC500> DBSC1110 is what it says on the side
[14:49:56] <MC500> there big like rack mount servers..
[14:50:14] <tjtr33> see about the support at mesa ^^^ ! then encoding for weirdo io racks handed to you
[14:53:27] <MC500> DBSC1110-EAAW it comes up on google
[14:54:12] <cradek> MC500: do you have stg1 or stg2?
[14:54:42] <MC500> is there any external replacment for my stg, such as somthing driven by ethernt, firewire, USB? FDDI(heh)
[14:54:56] <cradek> only bleeding-edge
[14:55:03] <MC500> stg2
[14:55:04] <cradek> but you don't want that, you want PCI
[14:55:25] <cradek> or wait a few years maybe?
[14:55:40] <MC500> yea PCI was the next best to ISA... though its days are numberd too im sure
[14:55:47] <cradek> not nearly as numbered
[14:56:00] <cradek> besides mesa has PCIe versions too
[14:56:04] <MC500> yea well 5volt is gone....
[14:56:20] <MC500> PCIe is good
[14:56:46] <MC500> I have a bunch of old PCI 5 volt cards and new computers dont come with slotts
[14:57:23] <cradek> every computer I've bought for 15+ years has had pci slots
[14:57:27] <MC500> I thought somone did like a dedicaed ethernet widgi
[14:57:32] <cradek> it's not like they're hard to find
[14:57:35] <pcw_home> Lots of new MBs with PCI
[14:57:43] <cradek> yes
[14:57:55] <MC500> just saying PCI 5 volt is prety much gone..
[14:58:03] <cradek> I don't understand how people apparently buy motherboards blindly and then go OH SHIT it doesn't have anything I need!
[14:58:28] <pcw_home> It wont dissapear anywhere as fast as ISA did (due to the ease of bridging)
[14:59:04] <MC500> Ill take a quad i7 with 32 Gigs of ram and an ISA slot please... heh
[14:59:23] <cradek> sure that's hard to do, but behind me I have an i7 with 32 gigs of ram and pci slots
[14:59:23] <MC500> PCI has more staying power for sure
[14:59:36] <MC500> true
[14:59:53] <cradek> and a PS2 keyboard connector for my model M
[15:00:29] <MC500> and 2 serial and one parellel port
[15:00:37] <MC500> and a floppy
[15:00:56] <gene79> I put in the tilt, and that is exactly what it carved. just took it bac k out & rerunning it. I could turn old & grey doing this
[15:00:58] <MC500> my Leadwell V40 has files I need on a floppy...
[15:01:04] <gene79> except I already am...
[15:01:06] <pcw_home> the J1800d2h I have has PS2/ and parallel
[15:01:16] <cradek> only one serial actually
[15:01:32] <MC500> PS2 as in IBM PS2???
[15:02:09] <pcw_home> sure
[15:02:19] <cradek> yeah, the keyboard connector
[15:04:26] <MC500> so whats the distro I amd downloading, debian based? whats the desktop?
[15:04:35] <cradek> debian wheezy xfce
[15:04:47] <MC500> very cool
[15:04:56] <cradek> with rtai, linuxcnc2.6, assorted supporting goodies
[15:05:10] <MC500> wont have to kick xfce down to blackbox like I do on the ubuntu ones.. its prety tight already
[15:05:22] <cradek> nah, it runs fine
[15:05:37] <MC500> I love xfce
[15:06:07] <MC500> I run it on my home computer for years
[15:06:24] <MC500> I run blackbox on appliance stuff..
[15:07:13] <cradek> I'm new to it but find it perfectly adequate
[15:08:11] <Tom_itx> i'd rather find it outstanding!
[15:09:00] <Tom_itx> i'm undecided about xfce yet
[15:09:15] <cradek> when people constantly break the desktop PC paradigm in the name of progress, adequate stands out
[15:10:22] <cradek> it has windows - you can have several at the same time - you can move them with the mouse - the one with keyboard focus changes color - yay
[15:21:48] <skunkworks> MC500, http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/7i80j1900.png
[15:43:55] <Jymmm> In respect to compressed air water trap, I need to cool the air before hitting any trap? Is that basically condensing water vapor into liquid form to capture it?
[18:26:20] <ssi> got pulsing working :D
[18:26:54] <Tom_itx> nice
[18:27:48] <ssi> seems I can cut a fair bit faster with pulsing than I could CW
[18:28:44] <Tom_itx> why's that?
[18:28:58] <ssi> http://www.buildlog.net/blog/2011/12/getting-more-power-and-cutting-accuracy-out-of-your-home-built-laser-system/
[18:29:06] <ssi> a quirk of laser physics :)
[18:29:18] <ssi> "Anyhow, the spike in intensity is caused by the necessity voltage to start a plasma in a DC Laser. The laser power supply generates a very high voltage to start the plasma which is stored in a capacitor. When the signal comes to turn on the power, the power supply dumps this charge into the system and then supplies a nominal (still very high) voltage to sustain the plasma once it is on."
[18:29:30] <ssi> " The thought came to me that a short pulse of 2-3ms would result in an average power output that was significantly higher than the output of a constantly on system. Further, the duty cycle is generally much lower which will allow the laser to operate much cooler. This allows a DC laser to effectively operate at much higher power levels than it is rated for without causing damage to the system."
[18:40:57] <cpresser> ssi: my cheap chinese control does some PWM
[18:41:14] <cpresser> but: it wont fire below 20% DC. i dit not investiget this so far
[18:41:33] <cpresser> its annoying since i cant cut thin material without burning everything :/
[18:42:52] <PetefromTn_> cpresser Hell he don't know man rumor has it he burnt down the neighbors house with it LOL...
[18:45:15] <ssi> cpresser: so the pwm you're talking about is probably the pwm to control the laser current
[18:45:21] <ssi> and mine won't fire below 20% either
[18:45:29] <ssi> I use 25% as a lower bound for laser current
[18:45:37] <ssi> but what I'm talking about actually is separate from that
[18:45:51] <ssi> I pick a laser power, typically 100%, and then it pulses the fire signal some number of times per inch
[18:45:52] <cpresser> thats possible. i didnt trty to reverse-engineer it so far. but I might retrofit it to linuxcnc :)
[18:46:17] <ssi> that decouples the amount of power delivered to the cut from the speed of the head, so I can slow down and get the same quality of cut
[18:46:35] <ssi> and then has the side benefit that you get the transient response of the laser that gives you higher overall output
[18:46:54] <ssi> I was limited to about 14ipm with CW, with PPI mode at 5000 pulses per inch, I can cut at 28ipm pretty well
[18:46:56] <Tom_itx> it's really how steppers work
[18:47:03] <cpresser> sounds good. since i do have problems with charing around the edges
[18:47:15] <ssi> also the edges of the cut pieces of plywood are more of a golden brown now
[18:47:16] <Tom_itx> give them overvoltage but pulse it to keep the current in check
[18:47:17] <ssi> lemme take a pic
[18:47:32] <ssi> Tom_itx: yeah because they're inductive
[18:47:39] <ssi> so you need much higher voltage to get current to flow
[18:48:06] * cpresser needs to read more stuff about the laser-tube and its power supply to be able to do this conversion
[18:48:19] <ssi> cpresser: well thankfully I've got it pretty well figured out, so I can help
[18:48:37] <Tom_itx> ssi didn't seem to take you very long to get yours going
[18:48:45] <ssi> no, not too long
[18:48:53] <ssi> but I've been doing this instead of going to work :)
[18:49:12] <cpresser> ssi: for the next few weeks i still have a few job i need to do (with the current control). but ill take some picture and try to get datasheets
[18:50:08] <ssi> you know what weirds me out a bit
[18:50:14] <ssi> the HV end of the tube is covered in dust :P
[18:52:06] <PCW> You have an electrostatic dust collector
[18:52:10] <ssi> yep
[18:54:10] <ssi> I seem to have about 0.010" kerf
[18:54:17] <ssi> cutting 1/4" oak plywood at 28ipm
[18:54:24] <ssi> I'm pretty impressed, for 40W
[18:54:45] <ssi> I have a 4" lens coming; I wonder if I'll be able to cut 3/8" or thicker with it
[18:56:49] <PCW> That's pretty nice, would the cutting speed scale ~linearly with power?
[18:57:48] <ssi> I dunno... it's a complicated dance
[18:58:12] <ssi> cause it's like... your speed is relative to how long it takes to vaporize the area in the beam path
[18:58:21] <ssi> and that's relative to the intensity in W/mm^2
[18:58:29] <ssi> which is relative to beam power, diameter, and focal length
[18:58:57] <ssi> so my feedrates have all been determined empirically :)
[18:59:22] <ssi> as was my focus height: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtqlhnGIgAER5Dx.jpg:large
[18:59:37] <PCW> how about oxygen assist :-)
[18:59:42] <ssi> I have air assist
[18:59:49] <ssi> oxygen assist gets used in metal cutting
[18:59:56] <ssi> but it sounds dangerous for cutting wood! :D
[19:00:17] <ssi> the primary function of air assist on my machine is to keep the lens from getting fouled with smoke
[19:00:29] <ssi> it affects the cut to some degree, but I don't really know how or how much
[19:00:39] <ssi> with acrylic, too much air pressure makes the cut rough and burred on the bottom
[19:00:52] <ssi> almost no air pressure gives me a really smooth glassy almost flame-polished edge
[19:01:17] <ssi> I've experimented much more with plywood than acrylic because plywood is muuuuch cheaper
[19:02:11] <PCW> is 40W enough for SS SMD stencils?
[19:02:18] <ssi> no
[19:02:26] <ssi> I'm hoping that 100W is, but I don't think it will be
[19:02:28] <cpresser> 80W is not enough :/
[19:02:33] <PCW> well mylar stencils then
[19:02:40] <ssi> it'll do mylar no problem
[19:02:47] <ssi> SS is pretty reflective to co2
[19:02:53] <ssi> need nd:yag I think
[19:03:03] <cpresser> i bought mylar to try making stencils; however, my laser has to much power
[19:03:13] <ssi> cpresser: ppi mode would help tremendously with that
[19:03:19] <PCW> Mylar is ok for short run stencils
[19:03:26] <cpresser> the best i can do is 0805 parts.
[19:03:40] <ssi> PCW: apparently fiber lasers work well for stencils too
[19:03:46] <ssi> maybe I'll build a little fiber machine sometime :)
[19:04:11] <ssi> this machine is also WAY too big for smd stencils
[19:04:22] <ssi> i don't anticipate making any 24x48" boards
[19:04:25] <PCW> maybe my 15W ones would work for mylar
[19:04:31] <ssi> probably
[19:04:55] <cpresser> fortunately, i know a guy which owns such a machine: http://www.micromanufacturing.com/sites/default/files/stories/import/1404-Lasers-web-resources/image/Trumpf%20TMS1000_desktop_opt.jpeg
[19:05:11] <cpresser> it does cut StainlessSteel stencils :)
[19:06:00] <cpresser> but, buying a stencil isnt that expensice. thats what i have done so far. just order one that comes with the PCB
[19:06:03] <ssi> looks like those are Nd:YAG
[19:06:19] <ssi> there's a place locally that'll laser cut me SS stencils for $100 and turn them around same day
[19:06:31] <PCW> production stencils also need to be polished so better done by experts
[19:07:13] <chris33> hi has anymone milled plexi glass?
[19:07:23] <PCW> but it might be handy to make little mylar ones for protos
[19:07:25] <ssi> it cracks very easily :)
[19:07:37] <ssi> PCW: I'll have to order some mylar film and give it a shot
[19:08:31] <ssi> mcmaster carries it
[19:08:46] <ssi> 5mil is $22 for 10 feet of 40" wide, 7 mil is $40
[19:08:58] <cpresser> chris33: tons of (literally)
[19:09:04] <ssi> that's clear... I wonder if metallized is better?
[19:09:17] <PCW> yeah not expensive at all
[19:09:19] <ssi> metallized might be harder to cut
[19:10:04] <PCW> I have a giant old roll of drafting mylar thats frosted
[19:10:17] <chris33> well i know if you blow torch the sides slightly it bringes back glossy my question is if i milled a shape on the face of it can i do the same i dont want it looking scratch it needs to have a contour
[19:10:49] <ssi> you'll probably make the edges look indistinct
[19:11:41] <cpresser> chris33: did you try flame polishing?
[19:12:08] <chris33> havnt tried anything yet lol just looking about it on net
[19:12:30] <cpresser> chris33: its not that simple. at least i havent had much success. the manufacturer of the acrylic recommends a H2-Flame since it is hot enough
[19:13:06] <cpresser> i killed some sheet by trying to use a (propane)blowtorch. didnt work for me
[19:13:32] <cpresser> chris33: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNiuJATVBvo
[19:15:52] <ssi> PCW: I have a 7i76 output pin that runs a solenoid, and it seems to be stuck on
[19:16:11] <ssi> it's on even when linuxcnc isn't running, which I didn't think was possible
[19:16:15] <ssi> unless I killed something on the board
[19:16:28] <PCW> hmm wonder if the wd patch got lost somehow
[19:16:28] <ssi> in hindsight, that should probably go through a relay
[19:16:41] <ssi> wd patch?
[19:16:56] <PCW> sorry wrong window
[19:16:57] <ssi> ah
[19:16:59] <XXCoder1> yeah new verion of wd-40. wd-41
[19:17:22] <PCW> a solenoid might be excessive stored energy
[19:17:22] <ssi> PCW: all the other outputs are low with nothing running, but this one is at 12V
[19:17:33] <ssi> yeah, I'm going to move it to a relay
[19:17:39] <ssi> but did I kill that output somehow?
[19:18:30] <PCW> Its possible if you have a big inductive load (big inductive loads need flyback diodes)
[19:20:00] <ssi> I thought I read the 7i76 had flyback diodes on the outputs
[19:20:34] <Tom_itx> PCW you lookin for a place for stencils?
[19:21:03] <ssi> The output driver chips used on the 7I76 have built in Zener diode clamps to clamp inductive turn-off (fly-back) spikes. This means that flyback diodes are not normally required on inductive loads. If high current inductive loads are switched at high frequencies, they should have flyback diodes to limit power dissipation the in 7I76's driver chips
[19:21:09] <ssi> might just be too big a load, and killed the driver
[19:21:59] <cpresser> ssi: maybe you just killed the zeners, creating a 'pullup'
[19:22:58] <PCW> Yeah we killed some driving tiny step motors for things like solenoids a flyback diode is needed (I will add that to the manual)
[19:23:26] <humble_sea_bass> wertgwsefrg
[19:23:34] <humble_sea_bass> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8B066ZeCPA
[19:23:44] <PCW> the zeners are not used directly but connect to the MOSFET gates
[19:24:15] <PCW> ssi should I send you a NCV7608?
[19:25:21] <ssi> if you'd like... if you do, can you send me a pair of bus drivers from the 5i25 too if they're not too expensive? I'd like to see if that fixes the one I killed with plasma torch voltage :)
[19:25:51] <ssi> the card works, just some of the inputs don't change states
[19:26:12] <ssi> inputs and outputs I should say
[19:26:55] * ssi is adept at murdering mesa hardware
[19:37:21] <PCW> It may just be the bus switch
[19:37:32] <ssi> yea bus switch, that's what I meant to say :)
[19:37:36] <ssi> that's what I suspect it is
[19:37:42] <ssi> i imagine if it's not the bus switch, it's the fpga
[19:37:50] <PCW> let me send myself a email so I dont forget
[19:38:11] <PCW> Yep but often its just the bus switches
[19:38:22] <ssi> yeah, that would make the most sense
[19:38:30] <ssi> it's the first line of defense against rogue 300V pulses :)
[19:39:45] <PCW> could have wiped the 5I25 and the PC
[19:40:56] <ssi> yes, I clearly like to live dangerously
[19:44:38] <PCW> no more laser burns?
[19:44:39] <PCW> bbl dinner time
[19:45:44] <ssi> no I've managed to keep my flesh out of the beam :D
[19:47:10] <PCW> :-)
[19:59:39] <XXCoder1> ssi: hows your laser cnc and also how is your remaining eye? ;)
[20:11:31] <ssi> so far so good
[20:12:45] <ssi> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ebola-virus-outbreak-20140730,0,3053792.story
[20:12:49] <ssi> oh great, by all means, bring the guy HERE
[20:13:12] <jdh> you need to work on laser isotope separation.
[20:13:33] <ssi> put it on the list, right after raster engraving
[21:01:25] <CaptHindsight> stinking TB6560 drive lasted 2 weeks, kept cool as a cucumber and at 50% of it's rated max load
[21:03:10] <jdh> were you thinking "this will be the one 6560 that lasts... I can feel it"
[21:03:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sainsmart.com/cnc-router-single-1-axis-tb6560-3-5a-stepper-stepping-motor-driver-board.html
[21:04:12] <CaptHindsight> noisiest drive I've ever heard
[21:05:45] <jdh> it whined?
[21:06:09] <CaptHindsight> usually a 72 hr burn in takes out the infants, but this lasted just long enough to be annoying
[21:06:10] <jdh> whatever drives came with my 6040 seem to be fine.
[21:08:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/kl-4030-24-40vdc-3-0a-microstepping-driver and I thought these were scraping the bottom of the barrel
[21:09:04] <CaptHindsight> jdh: are they Leadshine drives that came with your 6040?
[21:09:12] <ssi> i've run some of those 4030s for years with no issues
[21:11:27] <CaptHindsight> that pick-n-place project is going to use even worse drives
[21:20:50] <jdh> I didn't open them up. They look like leadshine boxes though
[21:37:43] <ssi> so the software stepgen module has a function called "capture-position" that can be bound to a fast thread to have fast feedback of the position
[21:38:02] <ssi> the example of raster engraving I'm looking at uses it to have better-than-servo-thread precision on the X position
[21:38:10] <ssi> does the hm2 stepgen have any similar capability?
[21:38:38] <ssi> hm2 has stepgen.position-fb pin, but is it updated at high speed, or only on the servo-thread updates?
[21:49:42] <ssi> based on the code, I'm gonna say it only gets updated on servo-thread updates
[22:13:38] <asah> hey, anyone have any experience with fanuc motors? specifically the series 5 ones with the Cn1 Cn2, etc commutation setup?
[22:22:28] <pcw_home> Does the bldc components 'f' tag work?
[22:23:24] <asah> haven’t gotten that far. trying to hook up the commutation pins to a 7i70 but not getting any output
[22:23:46] <asah> probably cause they are only 5v ttl? not sure what I should be getting out of them levelwise.
[22:23:53] <asah> hence my question
[22:24:31] <asah> but now, my 5i23 is barfing “failed to reset fpga, aborting hm2_register
[22:24:39] <asah> worked yesterday...
[22:26:08] <asah> DONE status bit dindicates busy at start of programming
[22:26:49] <pcw_home> Not a good sign but maybe clean contact fingers (and try with I/O disconnected)
[22:27:25] <pcw_home> sometimes a corrupted EEPROM can cause this also
[22:28:43] <asah> reboot fixed it...
[22:29:23] <asah> rather, power cycle did.
[22:29:47] <asah> now back to commutation.
[22:30:05] <asah> I can read analog levels of fof the 7i70 right?
[22:30:36] <pcw_home> you can the on a couple pins I think
[22:31:05] <asah> what is my best bet to get digi in like this if it is at 5 v?
[22:31:41] <pcw_home> lower the field voltage
[22:31:57] <asah> I have an 8i20 and a 7i70 and a quadrature board (6 channel)
[22:31:58] <pcw_home> (or use a 7I69 or 7I90)
[22:32:18] <asah> field voltage says 8 volt min.
[22:32:24] <asah> can I go down to 5?
[22:33:14] <pcw_home> _maybe_ we updated most to run at 5 you will have to check (and split VIN/VFIELD)
[22:34:02] <pcw_home> You can also use spare encoder inputs (in TTL mode) as long as you are running 2.6/master
[22:34:49] <pcw_home> (2.6 and master added the ability to read the A/B/I pins as bits)
[22:36:12] <pcw_home> VIN is 8V min VFIELD may work at 5V
[22:36:17] <asah> ah, ok. that gives some options. though I am going to be using all 6 of my encoder hannels.
[22:37:15] <pcw_home> you can use bare FPGA pins if you are feeling lucky :-)
[22:37:58] <asah> =) oh yeah… sounds like fun!
[22:39:17] <asah> mayhap I don’t care that much about commutation.
[22:39:22] <asah> I do have an encoder after all.
[22:59:46] <pcw_home> Yeah if you dont mind a litel motion at the start you can use the QI mode
[23:04:19] <ssi> haha as I feared, this is a nightmare to troubleshoot :)
[23:22:25] <XXCoder2> ssi: what problem?
[23:22:36] <ssi> trying to get raster engraving working
[23:22:51] <XXCoder2> linuxcnc im pretty sure
[23:22:58] <ssi> wat
[23:23:15] <XXCoder2> if I recall linuxcnc has built in support for raster?
[23:23:30] <XXCoder2> I guess you meant something like cam package?
[23:23:35] <ssi> no
[23:24:49] <XXCoder2> lol ok
[23:25:33] <seltecc> is with "STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = " in the inf file steps per revolution meant ...?
[23:27:06] <seltecc> if not , then what is "steps per revolution" in the ini?
[23:28:42] <XXCoder2> holy fuking shit
[23:28:43] <XXCoder2> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive
[23:29:01] <XXCoder2> so we has reactionless drive
[23:34:03] <ssi> holy shit it's working
[23:37:21] <PetefromTn> well I cheaped out damnit....
[23:37:43] <XXCoder2> ssi your machine or reactionless drive
[23:37:46] <XXCoder2> pete on?
[23:37:50] <PetefromTn> you'd think I would know better by now.
[23:39:06] <PetefromTn> I bought a 3/4 inch diameter champfer bit at home depot instead of buying a quality MA Ford multi flute online
[23:39:29] <PetefromTn> got home and tried it. WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT!
[23:40:02] <PetefromTn> I did not think it was possible to make a surface finish that bad so quickly
[23:40:12] <ssi> XXCoder2: my machine
[23:40:30] <ssi> PetefromTn: good tools only cost once :)
[23:40:32] <XXCoder2> ahh way to go! what was problem?
[23:40:51] <ssi> XXCoder2: it was expecting absolute position, but the position i was giving it was current coordinate system
[23:40:52] <PetefromTn> ain't it the truth.....
[23:41:01] <XXCoder2> doh
[23:41:33] <PetefromTn> this thing chatters almost immediately and it does not seem to matter the speed
[23:41:57] <toastydeath> not enough rake?
[23:42:02] <toastydeath> too little clearance?
[23:42:20] <toastydeath> pic of the tool?>
[23:42:20] <PetefromTn> compared to my other MA Ford champfer bits it is like trying to carve a Turkey with a chainsaw.
[23:42:40] <PetefromTn> just makes a huge mess.
[23:43:23] <PetefromTn> thankfully I just went a little deep and once I get the proper tool in here I can finish the hole to depth with a hopefully nice surface finish.
[23:44:03] <PetefromTn> I dunno it was the only large diameter multi flute cutter they sold
[23:44:38] <toastydeath> i like using center drills as chamfer tools
[23:44:47] <toastydeath> or countersinks
[23:44:56] <PetefromTn> it was only like ten bucks but it is not even suitable for wood the way it works...just junk.
[23:45:13] <toastydeath> unless you're cutting a big ol chamfer
[23:45:22] <toastydeath> if it's like .040" or under
[23:45:34] <toastydeath> a stub drill/countersink will work just fine
[23:45:44] <PetefromTn> yeah but I need a 90 degree and my center drills and spot drills are all smaller diameter than the 3/4 I need here.
[23:46:38] <toastydeath> why do you need 3/4
[23:46:47] <PetefromTn> I need to countersink some 3/8-16 flat head socket bolts flush and the head is just slightly under. 75
[23:46:53] <toastydeath> http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Spotting-and-Centering-Drills/1733.html
[23:46:55] <toastydeath> 16 bux
[23:47:55] <PetefromTn> damn that is a good price man. have you used those? do they cut nice?
[23:51:32] <toastydeath> no, but that's pretty much the standard design for a spotting drill
[23:51:38] <toastydeath> i've used ones that look exactly like it
[23:51:41] <PetefromTn> I was gonna do these with my drill press so was looking for a 1/2 inch shank
[23:52:29] <toastydeath> if you're trying to actually chamfer a hole, you can use a square boring bar in a boring head
[23:52:38] <toastydeath> (if you have one)
[23:52:51] <PetefromTn> yeah I know that is what I use just smaller in the cnc
[23:53:20] <PetefromTn> huh?
[23:53:53] <toastydeath> ?
[23:53:56] <toastydeath> huh to what
[23:54:12] <PetefromTn> square boring bar?
[23:54:30] <toastydeath> if you have either a brazed boring bar or an insert set at 45 degrees
[23:54:55] <PetefromTn> oh
[23:55:04] <toastydeath> makes manually chamfering large holes easy
[23:55:16] <toastydeath> and you don't really need a boring bar, even a flycutter head will do
[23:56:58] <PetefromTn> honestly I probably just need to program the cut on the cnc and use the smaller bit bit I am trying to setup this part prototype in case they decide they want me to make a bunch of them crossing fingers LOL.
[23:57:45] <PetefromTn> this thing is done except for the damn long champfers here
[23:58:01] <toastydeath> lol
[23:58:24] <toastydeath> plus setting up a chamfer is super easy, just use cutter comp
[23:59:24] <PetefromTn> tomorrow I am hopefully going to be able to borrow the correct tool from a friend after he gets off work and finished the prototype. Then if I get orders for it I will probably buy a set of new Ford bits.
[23:59:42] <PetefromTn> yeah I know done it a bunch...