#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-06-27

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[00:00:08] <PetefromTn> I am working on building this Custom Field Target Competition rifle and when it is done I will probably be heading to Atlanta to shoot occasionally.
[00:00:52] <ssi> sweet
[00:01:07] <PetefromTn> there are actually two different matches down there one east of Atlanta and one closer to bama
[00:01:19] <ssi> the latter, is that near rome?
[00:01:57] <PetefromTn> also the USFT National Championship matches will be in Heflin Alabama this year in October
[00:02:25] <PetefromTn> dunno basically hit Atlanta and head west.
[00:02:32] <ssi> ah ok, then no
[00:02:39] <PetefromTn> its a new one I have not been to yet.
[00:02:47] <PetefromTn> the other one is j
[00:02:54] <PetefromTn> in Covington ga
[00:03:43] <PetefromTn> we are actually supposed to be showing our house this weekend so who the hell knows...
[00:04:10] <PetefromTn> what kinda cable do you use for your speakers?
[00:06:52] <ssi> cheap cable :)
[00:07:04] <PetefromTn> really?
[00:07:06] <ssi> actually at these power levels, cat5 pairs work fine
[00:07:18] <ssi> they're wired internally with cat5
[00:07:20] <PetefromTn> you're kidding
[00:07:27] <ssi> but from the amp to the speaker I just use regular 18ga speaker wire
[00:08:03] <ssi> yeah see, "audiophiles" who make their living from scamming people in multi-million dollar condos will insist you need oxygen free silver wire with crystal badstuffstoppers
[00:08:09] <PetefromTn> just to save my image here I am listening to smashing pumpkins now LOL...
[00:08:58] <PetefromTn> cherub rock.....rocks!!
[00:09:02] <ssi> :)
[00:09:52] <PetefromTn> I am actually really interested in what you are doing there. I always wanted a sick system like that but could never afford it.
[00:10:11] <PetefromTn> never even considered making it myself.
[00:10:19] <ssi> get on diytube.com and look at the stuff shannon parks is designing
[00:10:28] <ssi> that's his forum, he's got like six or seven different designs up there
[00:10:31] <PetefromTn> I dunno Why I make all sorts of shit...
[00:10:33] <ssi> they can all be built fairly inexpensively
[00:10:43] <ssi> there's nothing "cheap" in tube amps
[00:10:48] <ssi> transformers cost money
[00:10:50] <ssi> tubes cost money
[00:10:58] <ssi> but you can build a $10k amp for under $1k
[00:10:58] <PetefromTn> and they sound good right
[00:11:04] <ssi> yeah I think they sound excellent
[00:11:34] <ssi> so do you know about class A vs class AB, and single ended vs push pull?
[00:11:51] <PetefromTn> I'm sure you are right but it amazes me what some people think sounds good.
[00:12:05] <ssi> well that's the trick... it's all very subjective
[00:12:11] <ssi> and there's no way to show someone over the internet what it sounds like :)
[00:12:42] <PetefromTn> honesty it has been over twenty years since I played with that stuff so if I did I forgot it now.
[00:12:56] <ssi> ok so lets start with single ended vs push pull
[00:13:27] <ssi> single ended is very simple, you have one tube, and you have to bias it up about halfway up its working range
[00:13:41] <ssi> and believe it or not, it dissipates MAXIMUM power at idle
[00:13:46] <ssi> less power when its working :)
[00:13:55] <ssi> they're terribly inefficient
[00:14:13] <ssi> the 2A3 is a 25W tube, and it runs at 25W all the time its on, to make 2.5W of audio output
[00:14:13] <PetefromTn> I remember the first ribbon speaker set we installed they were Martin Logan's. beautiful highs on those.
[00:14:39] <ssi> a friend is supposed to give me a set of martin logan electrostatic panels
[00:14:56] <ssi> now, push pull amps have two tubes that work against each other
[00:15:16] <ssi> you have a phase splitter to produce equal but opposite drive signals, and the pair works equal but opposite against the output transformer
[00:15:18] <PetefromTn> I am quite sure there are better ones now again that was two decades ago.
[00:15:24] <ssi> push pull make quite a bit more power
[00:15:54] <PetefromTn> probably more expensive too I am sure
[00:16:01] <ssi> well there's twice as many tubes, so yes
[00:16:10] <ssi> but the output transformers can be cheaper
[00:16:38] <PetefromTn> what are most of those high end monoblocks?
[00:16:39] <ssi> in a PP amp, the dc bias current in each tube is flowing in opposite directions through the transformer, so it cancels out, and there's no quiescent magnetic field
[00:16:46] <ssi> they can be either
[00:16:59] <ssi> in a SE amp, the dc bias current flows one way only, and so the transformer can saturate quickly
[00:17:14] <ssi> so the SE output transformers have to have gapped cores, and be physically larger, and have trickier design
[00:17:19] <ssi> so they're bigger and heavier, which means more $$$
[00:17:40] <PetefromTn> shat
[00:17:42] <ssi> when it comes to transformers, low end is directly correlated to weight, and therefore cost
[00:17:49] <PetefromTn> what kind are you using?
[00:17:56] <ssi> I like james transformers a lot
[00:17:59] <ssi> I have two pair of them
[00:18:14] <ssi> http://tctubes.com/james-transformers-JS-6112HS-pair.aspx
[00:18:26] <ssi> those work well for the low-power single ended amps like I build
[00:18:36] <ssi> edcor makes good stuff, but it's all build to order and takes six weeks
[00:19:05] <ssi> something like this would be good for a 8W single ended amp
[00:19:05] <ssi> https://www.edcorusa.com/cxse25-8-5k
[00:19:27] <PetefromTn> maybe you can help me design a sweet amp setup for a reasonable price
[00:19:31] <ssi> sure
[00:19:47] <ssi> just bear in mind that the kind of stuff I like to build, you're gonna need different speakers too :)
[00:20:02] <ssi> but if you do the whole package, you won't be disappointed
[00:20:11] <ssi> and the speakers are the cheap part if you build the boxes yourself
[00:20:30] <PetefromTn> you are building your speakers from plywood?
[00:20:37] <ssi> yeah, birch ply
[00:21:05] <PetefromTn> I can get great prices on quality hardwood plywoods man.
[00:21:16] <ssi> yeah then definitely do that
[00:21:28] <PetefromTn> I am also very good at finishes.
[00:21:32] <ssi> I have a sheet of domestic cherry ply downstairs that I'm not sure what I'm going to do with
[00:21:44] <zeeshan|3> you can give it to me
[00:21:58] <PetefromTn> I would do a nice walnut or something I think...
[00:22:01] <zeeshan|3> actually LeelooMinai needs it more
[00:22:22] <ssi> she definitely doesn't need heirloom grade cherry plywood :P
[00:22:33] <XXCoder2> fancy cnc made artwork with it?
[00:22:42] <PetefromTn> do you not make them from high density fiberboard and veneer it?
[00:22:50] <ssi> I don't have a cnc router, but that'd be nice
[00:22:56] <ssi> PetefromTn: no, plywood sounds better
[00:22:57] <ssi> it's stiffer
[00:23:03] <zeeshan|3> ssi you technically do
[00:23:14] <PetefromTn> stiffer than HDF?
[00:23:15] <zeeshan|3> just stick a router in place of your plasma
[00:23:16] <zeeshan|3> ;p
[00:23:21] <XXCoder2> hmm make disks out of it, then stack then lathe something out of it
[00:23:22] <ssi> zeeshan|3: it doesn't have a router on it, and I don't want to fill the water table with sawdust :P
[00:23:30] <zeeshan|3> =D
[00:23:34] <XXCoder2> but same time side profile of plywood, even fancy one..
[00:23:55] <zeeshan|3> ssi hates fiber board
[00:23:59] <zeeshan|3> :D!
[00:24:04] <ssi> yes, yes he does
[00:24:06] <PetefromTn> why?
[00:24:12] <zeeshan|3> cause its full of cancer
[00:24:20] <ssi> cancer and broken dreams :)
[00:24:20] <PetefromTn> thtamm
[00:24:26] <PetefromTn> that it is actually
[00:24:35] <zeeshan|3> and its as weak as..
[00:24:42] <zeeshan|3> >insert something very weak<
[00:24:58] <zeeshan|3> ssi i was using mdf
[00:24:59] <ssi> and the generally accepted practice for these kind of speaker boxes is 11 or 13 ply birch
[00:25:00] <zeeshan|3> 3/4"
[00:25:04] <XXCoder2> soggy tiolet paper?
[00:25:05] <zeeshan|3> put in a wood screw through the edge
[00:25:08] <zeeshan|3> it split instantly
[00:25:11] <zeeshan|3> i even predrilled
[00:25:16] <ssi> zeeshan|3: yeah, i've had that experience
[00:25:17] <zeeshan|3> its just that i overtorqued a bit
[00:25:19] <zeeshan|3> and bam
[00:25:21] <ssi> I actually do use mdf
[00:25:28] <ssi> but I use it to make router templates and such
[00:25:31] <PetefromTn> .we have built a lot of custom speaker enclosures into the large built ins we made and they always seemed to want that stuff.
[00:25:50] <PetefromTn> not MDF.
[00:26:16] <PetefromTn> mdf is what kids put in there Honda civic with a coupla 12s
[00:26:22] <ssi> yep
[00:26:22] <zeeshan|3> HEY
[00:26:26] <zeeshan|3> HEY.
[00:26:33] <ssi> heheh
[00:26:35] <zeeshan|3> =)
[00:26:40] <PetefromTn> ;)
[00:26:47] <zeeshan|3> it's all some people can afford!
[00:27:04] <PetefromTn> yeah I am one of those people generally
[00:27:08] <ssi> these look pretty badass
[00:27:09] <ssi> http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2863/11414879166_4f8840a669_z.jpg
[00:27:15] <zeeshan|3> lol
[00:27:17] <ssi> those are pensil 10ps
[00:27:22] <zeeshan|3> i have a workbench that looks like that
[00:27:34] <PetefromTn> nice...
[00:27:38] <ssi> http://upload.review33.com/images/201112/201112072301508259.jpg
[00:27:38] <XXCoder2> plywood bowl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9UlAe64lt0
[00:27:40] <ssi> as are those
[00:27:51] <PetefromTn> I can laminate them like that and plane them down.
[00:27:54] <ssi> and this http://upload.review33.com/images/201301/201301251137524679.jpg
[00:28:01] <ssi> that birdseye veneer is hawt
[00:28:12] <zeeshan|3> looks like someone pooped on it
[00:28:15] <PetefromTn> that OS
[00:28:26] <ssi> http://upload.review33.com/images/201301/201301252232142002.jpg
[00:28:28] <zeeshan|3> ssi i really dig cherry wood
[00:28:29] <PetefromTn> is what I was talking about man
[00:28:30] <zeeshan|3> and rose wood
[00:28:47] <ssi> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lSIdTW54qbM/Uq5qFmgpcKI/AAAAAAAABr8/8HqiL2o1NsU/w1099-h821-no/IMG_2833.JPG
[00:28:53] <ssi> ahaha someone went more crazy with the fullranges than I did!
[00:29:10] <zeeshan|3> if i saw those speakers
[00:29:13] <PetefromTn> I have done TONS of custom veneer and bookmatch work
[00:29:14] <zeeshan|3> i wouldnt be able to tell the difference
[00:29:28] <zeeshan|3> my sound distinguishing ability was owned by the angle grinder i was using today
[00:29:38] <zeeshan|3> i need to start wearing hearing protection
[00:30:17] * XXCoder2 is glad he wont need one ever
[00:30:26] <ssi> PetefromTn: haha check out this piece of poplar I was messing with
[00:30:26] <ssi> PetefromTn: https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/1796082_10100329302033592_297199678_o.jpg
[00:30:33] <PetefromTn> I need to get some pictures of the high end cabinet work I have done to show you guys..
[00:30:43] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: lol
[00:30:52] <zeeshan|3> do you have to wear hearing protection at work?
[00:31:20] <PetefromTn> that is pretty nice too..
[00:31:27] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: an angle grinder sounds like......
[00:31:40] <XXCoder2> zee only at one dept and because need protection from crap in air not hearing
[00:32:03] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: it sounds like
[00:32:04] <zeeshan|3> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_U-AxaCiwuNg/TAPiZ2Cb2oI/AAAAAAAAAVQ/EroxRxFhsvo/s400/hypnotic+wheel.gif
[00:32:05] <ssi> PetefromTn: I built myself a really nice split-top roubo workbench earlier this year
[00:32:10] <zeeshan|3> thats the best way i can describe it
[00:32:15] <XXCoder2> lol
[00:32:19] <ssi> I'm trying to find a decent pic of it
[00:32:29] <ssi> but meanwhile, here's one of the two vises I built for it
[00:32:30] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/p417x417/1620718_10100323142337672_1530810118_n.jpg
[00:32:31] <PetefromTn> sometimes I think I should sell my VMC and get a large flatbed router and go back to woodworking.
[00:32:37] <XXCoder2> very interesting wood in those speakers. too bad wasted on speakers. ;)
[00:32:37] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: can you feel vibrations
[00:32:44] <zeeshan|3> and tell if something is high pitch
[00:32:46] <zeeshan|3> or low pitch?
[00:32:51] <XXCoder2> yeah
[00:32:59] <zeeshan|3> nice
[00:33:08] <zeeshan|3> heightened 4 senses
[00:33:13] <zeeshan|3> must be an amazing experience
[00:33:19] <ssi> PetefromTn: http://benchcrafted.com/str.html
[00:33:20] <XXCoder2> not very sensive, but theres bad side too
[00:33:29] <XXCoder2> I wake up sometimes during night becauae of microquakes
[00:33:29] <ssi> they sell that $1000 kit with the vise hardware to build that bench
[00:33:34] <ssi> I made my own with my machines :)
[00:33:37] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: !
[00:33:44] <zeeshan|3> you're a seismograph
[00:33:44] <XXCoder2> not lately because KO'd by work and tiredness lol
[00:34:17] <zeeshan|3> im kind of retarded
[00:34:23] <zeeshan|3> today when i woke up, i was really tired
[00:34:29] <zeeshan|3> so i decided to keep my eyes shut
[00:34:38] <ssi> PetefromTn: here's what the speakers look like in my living room as of today
[00:34:39] <ssi> PetefromTn: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrHM3OOIMAAxV7C.jpg:large
[00:34:42] <zeeshan|3> i didnt open them till i left the washroom after i had showered, and brushed
[00:34:57] * zeeshan|3 is trying to build his senses
[00:34:59] <PetefromTn> we always made our benches from furniture grade plywood and torsion box style table top with angled bee corner legs.
[00:35:10] <ssi> this is a different kind of bench
[00:35:19] <ssi> weighs about 400lb
[00:35:23] <zeeshan|3> wtf
[00:35:24] <ssi> designed for hand planing
[00:35:27] <zeeshan|3> that table is 849$?
[00:35:31] <zeeshan|3> looks like it was made from scrap
[00:35:32] <zeeshan|3> :D
[00:35:33] <ssi> no, that's just the vise hardware
[00:35:38] <zeeshan|3> oh
[00:35:48] <ssi> the bench completed is close to $3k prolly
[00:35:53] <zeeshan|3> !
[00:35:56] <zeeshan|3> people buy that?
[00:36:01] <ssi> no, people build them
[00:36:03] <ssi> and buy the vise hardware
[00:36:15] <PetefromTn> the benches we made were designed to hold flat even under a very large piece of cabonetry
[00:36:17] <zeeshan|3> i for some reason am not into wood =/
[00:36:27] <ssi> PetefromTn: yeah I'm familiar with torsion box assembly tables
[00:36:34] <zeeshan|3> the most i've done with wood is use for a platform
[00:36:43] <ssi> craftsman benches are a different animal
[00:36:46] <zeeshan|3> or make a fence
[00:36:56] <PetefromTn> sure...
[00:37:11] <ssi> 4" thick solid top
[00:37:24] <ssi> the one in the benchcrafted pics is maple
[00:37:29] <ssi> mine's just southern yellow pine
[00:37:42] <ssi> https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/1795543_10100321850376772_782181293_n.jpg
[00:37:44] <PetefromTn> I worked for almost 20 years for three of the top custom cabinet shops in the area.
[00:37:57] <zeeshan|3> pete you old fart
[00:38:04] <ssi> I worked in a cabinet shop for two years when i was 22
[00:38:08] <ssi> ish
[00:39:03] <PetefromTn> I once built a complete cherry hardwood mantle that was over 12 feet wide and two stories tall
[00:39:19] <zeeshan|3> you both are tree killers
[00:39:47] <PetefromTn> it is in a couple million dollar home in Rarity bay.
[00:39:54] <ssi> PetefromTn: heh check this out
[00:39:55] <ssi> http://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/14398-all-my-hand-tools-are-for-sale/
[00:40:01] <ssi> I sold a bunch of my crap couple weeks ago
[00:40:06] <ssi> but theer's some good pics of bench and tools there
[00:40:34] <ssi> I sold $2000 worth of tools in two hours
[00:40:37] <ssi> it was a feeding frenzy
[00:41:04] <zeeshan|3> why are hand pl aners so expensive?
[00:41:13] <PetefromTn> nice.. we almost never used hand planes.
[00:41:17] <XXCoder2> interested in router bits but not right time
[00:41:27] <XXCoder2> I have few very old hand planers from dad
[00:41:28] <ssi> PetefromTn: good thing, cause you can't hand plane for shit with a light torsion box bench ;)
[00:41:45] <ssi> iron bites into the wood, then the table goes sliding across the floor
[00:41:55] <PetefromTn> we made everything with large planers shapers moulders etc etc
[00:42:17] <ssi> yeah that's the way the shop I worked in was too
[00:42:33] <ssi> after hours I built myself a hell of a nice cherry shaker nightstand with hand tools
[00:42:35] <PetefromTn> nothing light about the benches we used man. you could park my truck on them LOL
[00:42:46] <ssi> there's something really satisfying about chopping mortises with a chisel
[00:42:53] <ssi> you can park a truck on lots of things, doesn't make them heavy
[00:42:56] <ssi> unless the truck is on them
[00:43:15] <ssi> torsion boxes ane STRONG, but they're light for their size
[00:43:17] <ssi> cause they're mostly air
[00:43:34] <zeeshan|3> this wood talk bores me
[00:43:37] <zeeshan|3> talk about METAL
[00:43:45] <ssi> zeeshan|3: IRON MAIDEN
[00:43:48] <zeeshan|3> !!
[00:43:49] <zeeshan|3> :D
[00:43:53] <XXCoder2> metal version of plywood :P
[00:43:55] <PetefromTn> smashing pumpkins? ?!!
[00:44:05] <ssi> smashing pumpkins isn't metal :P
[00:44:15] <zeeshan|3> billy
[00:44:19] <zeeshan|3> suicidal billy
[00:44:23] <PetefromTn> yeah I KNOW MAN
[00:44:25] <zeeshan|3> hehe
[00:44:34] <ssi> DO YOU!?!
[00:45:05] <PetefromTn> Naaah man I don't know shit you know right..
[00:45:06] <zeeshan|3> yes
[00:45:08] <zeeshan|3> its fridayyyyyy
[00:45:20] <ssi> barely
[00:45:20] <XXCoder2> hour half left to go here
[00:45:50] <ssi> I'm hungry again :(
[00:45:57] <PetefromTn> just saw Alice in Chains a couple weeks ago in Cherokee
[00:46:34] <PetefromTn> we are thinking about seeing Nine inch Nails and Soindgarden in Atlanta
[00:46:43] <PetefromTn> sound
[00:46:47] <ssi> that'd be fun
[00:46:47] <zeeshan|3> mr reznor
[00:46:48] <zeeshan|3> the man
[00:46:51] <XXCoder2> Poison
[00:46:56] <zeeshan|3> i started liking nin when i realized
[00:47:01] <XXCoder2> paint it over with Deep Purple
[00:47:02] <zeeshan|3> trent did the quake 1 sound track
[00:47:04] <zeeshan|3> and sound effects lol
[00:47:12] <XXCoder2> gonna love google. well later all
[00:47:16] <ssi> zeeshan|3: yep
[00:47:30] <ssi> and the nailgun ammo had the nin logo on it
[00:47:33] <PetefromTn> I've been a fan for twenty years it seems
[00:47:36] <zeeshan|3> haha yea man
[00:47:54] <ssi> heh I bought downward spiral when it came out
[00:47:58] <ssi> that was a looooong time ago
[00:48:08] <ssi> I was in seventh grade :P
[00:48:43] <PetefromTn> I think the first one I BOUGHT was with teeth maybe
[00:49:13] <PetefromTn> I cannot remember it has been so long
[00:49:40] <PetefromTn> what's your all time favorite album?
[00:49:43] <ssi> with teeth came out in 2005
[00:49:50] <ssi> downward spiral came out in 94 :P
[00:50:26] <PetefromTn> I've got most of them can't remember which I got first but it was a very long time ago.
[00:50:42] <ssi> I have their first on vinyl
[00:51:05] <ssi> and ghosts
[00:51:12] <PetefromTn> I remember I had an NIN sticker on my Jeep back when I was in the Coast Guard and everyone asked me what the hell it meant LOL
[00:51:56] <PetefromTn> actually I THINK the first one I got was pretty hate machine maybe
[00:52:24] <PetefromTn> so what is it?
[00:52:31] <ssi> I've always been partial to downward spiral
[00:52:35] <ssi> but it's cause it was my first
[00:52:41] <ssi> and you always like your first best, right? :)
[00:53:55] <ssi> and there's deep seated memories of my teenage years associated with it :P
[00:54:10] <PetefromTn> I love melancholy and the infinite sadness from the pumpkins
[00:54:24] <ssi> I liked it when it came out, but I feel like it doesn't hold up
[00:54:29] <ssi> I like siamese dream a lot better
[00:54:39] <PetefromTn> it does to me...
[00:54:46] <PetefromTn> gish
[00:55:17] <PetefromTn> I am listening to Siamese dream right now LOL
[00:55:19] <ssi> when it comes to mopey 90s alt, I'm much more a radiohead guy :)
[00:55:37] <PetefromTn> ah jeez...
[00:56:02] <ssi> radiohead, incidentally, puts a tremendous amount of care into their vinyl
[00:56:08] <ssi> their records are some of the BEST sounding vinyl I have
[00:56:45] <PetefromTn> you're stuck in that vinyl man...buried in it hehe
[00:57:00] <PetefromTn> there O
[00:57:28] <PetefromTn> is a cool vinyl record store near me here... a hole in the wall place but it is cool and clean
[00:57:28] <ssi> come down and see for yourself
[00:57:50] <ssi> I'll make a believer out of you yet :P
[00:58:06] <PetefromTn> Guy who owns it is a MEGA hippy but he is a nice Guy.
[00:58:34] <PetefromTn> I am sure I would enjoy that
[00:58:52] <PetefromTn> I am a real music lover.
[01:00:01] <PetefromTn> you need to move to Florida with me man.... you can fly folks back and forth to the Bahama islands and we can chill with some audiophile goodness.
[01:00:17] <PetefromTn> LOL
[01:00:52] <Valen> you know given that everything is recorded digitally, then output to the vinyl, one could just create a "vinyl" module to make your high quality digital stuff have the same distortions as vinyl ;->
[01:01:36] <PetefromTn> ooh ouch hehe
[01:02:05] * Valen waits for ssi's outrage to cool
[01:02:39] <ssi> no outrage here :P
[01:02:54] <PetefromTn> its all about the recording method I think. I have heard full digital garbage and angelic beauty it can go either way
[01:03:11] <Valen> its all going to be digital studios these days I'd imagine
[01:03:33] <ssi> there's a huge difference between digital recording in a studio and 16/44.1 PCM
[01:03:47] <Valen> I won't argue with you there
[01:04:11] <ssi> vinyl does actually sound better than CDs
[01:04:20] <ssi> and then that gets compounded by the modern way CDs are mastered
[01:04:32] <ssi> which is to compress the living piss out of everything til it has about 12dB of dynamic range
[01:05:22] <Valen> thats mostly an "artistic" choice more than the mediums fault
[01:05:27] <ssi> yes
[01:05:31] <PetefromTn> throw that amp and a couple of your best homdbuilt speakers in your plane and show me man..
[01:05:37] <ssi> but for whatever reason it doesn't get done in vinyl mastering
[01:05:53] <ssi> PetefromTn: I could do it but it'd be a minor pain in the ass :)
[01:06:05] <Valen> probably catering to the listening environment
[01:06:16] <ssi> yeah that's a lot of it
[01:06:16] <PetefromTn> hey man I'm worth it no?
[01:06:26] <ssi> at some point producers decided that the target environment was the car
[01:06:35] <ssi> which is pretty much the worst place to listen to music
[01:06:40] <Valen> the "sounds better" part is going to be distortion I imagine
[01:06:43] <Valen> like valve amps
[01:06:47] <Valen> nothing wrong with that
[01:06:53] <ssi> well some of it is distortion
[01:07:01] <Valen> but its something you could do digitally
[01:07:04] <ssi> but some of it is dynamic range
[01:07:12] <Valen> really?
[01:07:54] <Valen> I would have thaught digital would have way better DR than vinyl
[01:08:39] <Valen> (presuming vinyl to have a higher noise floor)
[01:09:28] <ssi> it's tough to quantify exactly
[01:09:39] <ssi> cds have a pretty quantifiable dynamic range
[01:09:42] <ssi> about 88dB iirc
[01:09:54] <ssi> vinyls can vary with how hot the record is cut
[01:10:02] <Valen> "The 16-bit compact disc has a theoretical dynamic range of about 96 dB[11] for a triangle wave or 98 dB for sinusoidal signals"
[01:10:08] <ssi> yes theoretical
[01:10:15] <ssi> practical dr is 80-88dB I believe
[01:10:49] <ssi> the reason the recording world moved to 24 bit VERY early was because 16 bit isn't enough DR to capture audio without a lot of work
[01:10:58] <ssi> it's like playing price is right
[01:10:59] <Valen> about the same as vinyl
[01:11:10] <ssi> gotta get them meters up to as close to 0dBFS as possible without going over
[01:11:17] <ssi> if you go over 0 you get HORRIBLE clipping artifacts
[01:11:23] <PetefromTn> how is the low end on those homebuilt speakers you made?
[01:11:26] <ssi> so recording to 16 bit is an exercise in futility
[01:11:36] <ssi> PetefromTn: it's quite good down to 40hz or so
[01:11:50] <ssi> Valen: vinyl's DR is higher with hotter cut records
[01:11:58] <Valen> http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)#Vinyl_has_greater_resolution_than_CD_because_its_dynamic_range_is_higher_than_for_CD_at_the_most_audible_frequencies
[01:11:59] <ssi> but yeah typical is 86-90iB or so
[01:14:44] <ssi> unfortunately, these debates always devolve into specs, which mean little in audio
[01:15:03] <ssi> but here's one thing that vinyl has going for it which is indisputable
[01:15:20] <ssi> CDs are a dead format, and modern digital music is mp3 and streamed, usually shuffled
[01:15:25] <ssi> and it tends to turn into background noise
[01:15:28] <archivist> you need an audiophool and his golden ears
[01:15:30] <Valen> I think they should make the "master" "tapes" available for download when you buy the thing
[01:15:47] <ssi> with vinyl, you have to very deliberately select a record, and then listen to it in its entirety
[01:15:51] <Valen> sure it might be 10gig worth of losslessly compressed audio but sfw ;->
[01:15:54] <ssi> it makes it a much more active experience
[01:16:35] <Valen> heh, all I try for mainly is accurate reproduction out of my TV computer for watching movies ;->
[01:16:47] <Valen> oh and assloads of bass for the explosions ;->
[01:17:01] <ssi> that's what most people go for
[01:17:09] <Valen> as far as music goes, its FM radio
[01:17:19] <Valen> though I must say I *hate* overly compressed audio
[01:17:35] <ssi> the neat thing about the fullrange low-power tube stuff with good, well mastered vinyl records of acoustic music and voice
[01:17:42] <Valen> like the digital audio broadcasts they do here, they squeese it into like 96kbps or something
[01:17:45] <ssi> is it actually can sound like they're in the room with you
[01:17:48] <ssi> eerily so
[01:18:00] <ssi> Valen: oh yeah I HATE HD-radio... it sounds terrible
[01:18:08] <ssi> cymbals sound like crinkling plastic
[01:18:25] <Valen> yeah they mangle the top and bottom end too hard
[01:18:29] <ssi> HD must stand for horrible digital
[01:18:35] <Valen> the bass is just moosh
[01:18:36] <ssi> cause it's sure not high definition
[01:18:50] <Valen> and the top end you can hear the frequency bands half the time
[01:18:53] <ssi> yep
[01:19:23] <ssi> I'm definitely not a golden ear, I've destroyed my hearing with guns and airplanes and machines and being in rock bands
[01:19:32] <Valen> heh
[01:19:36] <PetefromTn> me too...
[01:19:41] <ssi> but I can hear how bad that is, and I can definitely hear the difference between the stuff I have here and regular crap
[01:20:03] <ssi> and I've A/B'd CD and vinyl through my setup, and I prefer the vinyl
[01:20:05] <Valen> I can hear the differences between all the different things people talk about as a rule
[01:20:10] <Valen> but to me they are just different
[01:20:36] <ssi> but CD and vinyl even of the same record are mastered differently
[01:20:40] <ssi> so it's never apples to apples
[01:20:46] <Valen> "better" being subjective appreciation to distortions
[01:21:34] <PetefromTn> years of running tablesaws and sharpers and planers it is amazing I can hear anything anymore but I still really enjoy my music
[01:21:58] <Valen> I wonder if you ran a "vinyl filter" over your CD's if you would like it more
[01:22:42] <ssi> feel free to set up a double blind experiment :P
[01:22:53] <Valen> heh, I'd have to care more
[01:22:56] <ssi> at the end of the day it doesnt' matter
[01:23:04] <PetefromTn> ssi it was nice chatting with you this evening my friend I am gonna hit the sack. I would love to check out your system sometime. take it easy.
[01:23:05] <Valen> I do hope to actually make an audiophool product at some point
[01:23:07] <ssi> let people like what they like :P
[01:23:12] <Valen> just for the $$$
[01:23:14] <ssi> PetefromTn: night pete
[01:23:20] * Valen is happy to part fools and money
[01:23:28] <ssi> Valen: http://www.amazon.com/Wattgate-381-AG-Duplex-Receptacle/dp/B000930W4M
[01:24:12] <ssi> aw man what was that one thing
[01:24:14] <archivist> the Denon network cable was funny
[01:24:49] <ssi> here it is
[01:24:49] <ssi> http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm
[01:25:02] <ssi> this guy makes some audiophile stuff
[01:25:04] <ssi> I mean HIGH END
[01:25:42] <ssi> Valen: here you go, he explains why CDs sound bad way better than I can
[01:25:43] <ssi> http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina35.htm
[01:25:50] <Valen> I like the cryogenically treated power cables
[01:26:07] <Valen> for $100 I'll throw an IEC lead into some liquid nitrogen too
[01:26:25] <archivist> the Denon AKDL1 cable was around $500 for a cat5 cable
[01:26:44] <ssi> archivist: gotta make sure that all your bits make it to the other end with optimum fidelity
[01:27:13] <Valen> ssi: everything he said there would matter, if CD's were analouge
[01:27:54] <Valen> being digital provided the SNR ratio is enough, it doesn't matter
[01:28:10] <archivist> I was taking the P down the local boozer some years ago, told an aufiophool he needed gold plated mains plugs, and they were on sale a couple of months later
[01:28:25] <ssi> Valen: I hope you realize I was jokin
[01:28:42] <Valen> whats that rule of the internet?
[01:28:47] <Valen> poes law?
[01:29:14] <ssi> Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.[3]
[01:29:19] <ssi> "7. There are no standards for polarity so the odds are quite good the CD you are listening to right now is out of absolute polarity.
[01:29:23] <ssi> is that not blatant enough? :)
[01:29:42] <Valen> i dunno, it fit with the rest of the whackadoodle stuff on the page
[01:29:52] <ssi> what about the first link from him?
[01:30:03] <ssi> the one about upgradiing your equipment by calling a phone number and having it play a tone over the phone?
[01:30:09] <ssi> or maybe this one
[01:30:09] <ssi> http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm
[01:30:22] <ssi> put an SD card on top of your cd player and it absorbs the laser light that escapes the case and fixes it somehow?
[01:30:34] <Valen> doesn't mean you aren't also a nutter ;->
[01:30:39] <Valen> people believe that crap
[01:30:55] <ssi> I guess you didn't see the part above where pete asked me what kind of speaker cable I use
[01:30:59] <ssi> and I told him I use cat5 :P
[01:31:19] <Valen> cat5 makes for quite good speaker cable I hear ;->
[01:31:23] <ssi> it does
[01:31:30] <ssi> especially for 2.5W amps
[01:32:01] <Valen> anyway I'd better go get some lunch
[01:32:04] <Valen> bbl
[01:32:23] <ssi> ahaha from diyaudio:
[01:32:24] <ssi> "Here's what I use. It is both a joke and a practical set of cables. The cable is built around a 1/2" vinyl tube covered with nylon mesh. I looks like the kind of fire hose cables that are so prevalent at audio shows. Inside is a single pair of CAT5 wires. Of course, a pair of CAT5 wires is my favorite cable for low power speakers. For my subs, I need to find something a bit bigger. I am currently running 16ga zip cord. I think I will settle on 12-14ga
[01:32:50] <ssi> that's an awesome idea
[01:33:01] <Loetmichel> ssi: cat5 is a bit thin for my taste as a speaker cable
[01:33:05] <ssi> Loetmichel: it's fine at 2.5W
[01:33:07] <Loetmichel> or my speakers are to big ;-)
[01:33:23] <ssi> Loetmichel: I use it for internal connections on my fullrange boxes
[01:33:36] <ssi> and then I run regular 16ga zipcord style speaker wire between the amp and speaker box
[01:33:50] <ssi> just cause cat5 is too flimsy and inflexible
[01:34:28] <ssi> although in the tubing like this it might not be too bad
[01:34:29] <Loetmichel> btw: after 300 meters telephone line even 100V tech tends to loos some low frequencies ;-)
[01:34:29] <ssi> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/markaudio/408665d1395972712-pencil-10ps-2-watts-tube-img_0830.jpg
[01:34:32] <ssi> dunno if that link'll work
[01:34:43] <ssi> yeah well I don't run my speaker cables 300 meters :)
[01:34:50] <ssi> more like 2 meters
[01:38:27] <ssi> I have another pair of alpair drivers kicking around
[01:38:29] <ssi> 12p
[01:38:33] <ssi> I need to build boxes for them
[02:12:05] <Deejay> moin
[02:21:45] <ssi> morn
[02:23:41] <skroon> hi
[02:40:46] <Valen> if you want flexible get stranded cat5
[02:52:18] <ssi> yea
[02:52:51] <Valen> I wish my sub had spdif input, and some decent way of turning on/off with the amp
[02:54:38] <ssi> hack it
[02:54:40] <ssi> :)
[02:55:33] <Valen> not enough roundtoits
[02:56:14] <Valen> geez i can't find the manufacturer of my sub amp
[02:56:17] <Valen> weak
[02:56:27] <Valen> I could go look, but its burried
[02:57:00] <Valen> twas a fancy european brand
[02:57:37] <ssi> I had to hack mine to make it useful
[02:57:46] <ssi> it had some sort of control box that changed the volume
[02:58:05] <ssi> opened it up and found that the whole six channel amp is inside, for the sub and satellites, and there's a six channel i2c attenuator chip
[02:58:12] <ssi> control box was just sending i2c commands to set the level
[02:58:45] <ssi> so I ran an i2c line to my stereo preamp, which already had an i2c 256 step stereo precision resistor attenuator controlled by an arduino with an optical encoder that I built
[02:59:00] <ssi> so I gave it a mode where I can press the encoder center switch and it changes to sub level
[03:04:07] <Valen> http://www.hypex.nl/product/2012-11-23-13-44-01/2012-11-23-13-44-19/ds1-2.html
[03:04:13] <Valen> thats the one I got
[03:08:11] <Valen> does the job ;->
[03:10:33] <ssi> ya
[03:13:02] <Valen> fed with a 5 meter RCA cable though :-<
[03:13:03] <ssi> hm i need to enable one encoder on my 5i25 but I'd prefer it to be on p2
[03:13:24] <ssi> by default enabling one gives me pins 13-15 on p3
[03:15:51] <ssi> if I enable two the second one is at the top of p2, I guess that's good enough
[03:17:04] <Valen> I think you need to muck with bitfiles or some such to change those
[03:45:05] <ssi> Im fairly certain I won't buy another gecko product
[03:49:14] <Tom_itx> why do you say that?
[03:49:49] <ssi> cause the ones I have are pissing me off
[03:50:01] <Tom_itx> 540?
[03:50:01] <ssi> if end up killing this second g540, I'm going to retrofit with keling drives
[03:50:32] <ssi> I have two of them, one is an earlier rev that can fry drives without popping the fuse
[03:50:37] <ssi> so it's got two dead drives
[03:50:43] <Tom_itx> i got the 203v and love them
[03:50:59] <ssi> the other will just pop the fuse, but the fuse is a proprietary part and you have to completely disassemble the thing just to check it
[03:51:11] <ssi> and it's popped now too, and I need to get shit done so there's a wire in place of it
[03:51:21] <ssi> which means the chance of killing these drives is fairly high now
[03:51:29] <ssi> 203v is INSANELY expensive
[04:17:20] <ssi> ok thcad is hooked up, and I think I have it scaled correctly
[04:17:38] <ssi> I see 170V in the thc component when I fire the torch, but with no arc transfer
[04:31:12] <seltecc> Hi all. anybody using the 5.1 breakout board with relais funktion. I donno what pin to assign....
[04:34:42] <seltecc> I want to get out a 12 v signal to run a LASER and donno what kind of signal to assign in the stepconf wizard for pin 9 (relais)
[04:47:07] <ssi> getting closer
[04:53:07] <RyanS> My piece of crap lath has no threading dial. Is it impossible to thread without it?
[05:03:44] <ssi> RyanS: not impossible
[05:04:03] <ssi> some pitches will start on any thread dial setting
[05:04:09] <ssi> 16tpi I'm pretty sure is one of them
[05:04:39] <ssi> also if you're smooth you can thread without disengaging the halfnut
[05:04:47] <ssi> cut a pass, stop the machine without disengaging,
[05:04:55] <ssi> back your tool out slightly, then run the machine in reverse
[05:05:02] <ssi> if you do it that way you'll never lose sync with your thread
[05:35:00] <Jymmm> XXCoder2: Soldering iron on sale this week for $15 http://www.frys.com/product/4825190?site=sa:adpages%20page:P28_FRI%20date:062714
[05:43:53] <ssi> I want to get one of the high end hakko stations
[05:49:02] <ssi> the ones that can use this tip:
[05:49:03] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-T15-ILS-Solder-Tip-replaces-T7-LLB-FX951-FM-206-FM-204-FM-203-FM-202-FP101-/161314177006?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258f12ffee
[05:49:13] <ssi> that'd be so nice for fine pitch microscope work
[05:51:05] <SpeedEvil> Well...
[05:51:21] <SpeedEvil> Do you know about drag soldering?
[05:51:26] <ssi> sure I do
[05:51:36] <ssi> I have a reflow oven :P
[05:51:48] <ssi> but for rework under a 10x stereo microscope, a really fine iron would be nice
[05:52:07] <SpeedEvil> I wonder.
[05:52:15] <SpeedEvil> For fine stuff, it seems like laser might be better
[05:52:44] <ssi> maybe, but I think I have a better chance of getting a $200 soldering station and a fine tip than a freakin soldering laser :P
[05:53:02] <ssi> ooh neat
[05:53:03] <ssi> http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fm2032.html
[05:53:33] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251309306307?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT + lens, and you're pretty much done
[05:54:16] <ssi> somehow staring through a 10x microscope at an 8W infrared laser seems like a recipe for blindless :)
[05:55:14] <SpeedEvil> you'd use a filter, of course.
[05:55:32] <SpeedEvil> And probably not directly observe, but a camera
[05:55:58] <ssi> this is a very expensive and complicated way to avoid buying a soldering iron!
[05:56:39] <SpeedEvil> Fine tips are readily available for cheap soldering irons
[05:56:47] <ssi> finest for my weller is 1/32"
[05:59:29] <ssi> hm... everything with the new thc setup seems to be working, except the Z axis isn't actually moving
[06:05:46] <ssi> I bet it's the velocity tolerance
[06:18:18] <ssi> yep
[06:27:38] <Loetmichel> who needs fine tips?
[06:27:56] <Loetmichel> i solder my 0,6mm qfps with a 2mm cisel tip
[06:28:01] <Loetmichel> works perfect ;-)
[06:28:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3132
[06:28:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3135
[06:28:39] <ssi> ahh irc... where there's no shortage of people who tell you that you're wrong and you don't actually want to do the thing you think you want to do
[06:29:14] <Loetmichel> ssi: no, you can do it like you want to
[06:29:53] <Loetmichel> i meant: _I_ need no small tips. the small tips tend to have not enough heat in the tuip, but that is just my experience.
[06:29:56] <Loetmichel> YMMV
[06:30:20] <ssi> I should know better than to bring anything up in here :P
[06:30:42] <Loetmichel> hu?
[06:31:35] <Loetmichel> but i would LIKE to have a soldering laser
[06:31:40] <Jymmm> ssi: Don't bitch about it, just GIT ER DONE! Fuck em if they can't take a joke!
[06:31:46] <Loetmichel> ... jut not cost effective for hobby ;-)
[06:32:10] <ssi> I wonder when JT gets up
[06:32:33] <Jymmm> ssi: Oh, and YOU'RE WRONG! Even if you're tight, you're still wrong!
[06:32:38] <Jymmm> right*
[06:32:50] <ssi> Jymmm: I didn't realize that everyone else in here was a woman
[06:32:56] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[06:33:16] <Jymmm> ssi: I AM WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR!
[06:33:19] <ssi> :D
[06:33:31] <ssi> i am man, hear me be wrong
[06:34:11] <Jymmm> ssi: you insensative bastard!
[06:34:43] <ssi> that's me
[06:34:49] <Loetmichel> *cough*... that was WAY to much chili powder on my ramen... AGAIN... *sniff*
[06:34:53] <Jymmm> ssi: "call me"
[06:34:56] <ssi> ahahaha
[06:35:07] <Jymmm> ssi: "why haven't you called me?"
[06:37:43] <ssi> thc component is still causing me to lose motion in Z
[06:38:04] <ssi> last time I talked to JT about it he said that if you move Z up after a cut it resets the offset
[06:38:10] <Jymmm> I don't have a mill nor desire to mill this, but... I need a ruler 12" x 1" x 1/8", but at the 2"-4" marks I need it reduced to 1/16" thickness. Needs to be flat, straight, and fairly precise. Suggestions?
[06:38:11] <ssi> and docs seem to suggest t hat as well
[06:39:45] <ssi> Jymmm: laser it!
[06:40:01] <Jymmm> alum or steel
[06:40:13] <ssi> laser it very very slowly
[06:40:23] <ssi> 2W diode can cut anything, remember? :)
[06:40:42] <ssi> some dude on kickstarter said so
[06:40:47] <Jymmm> CO2 wont mark metal no matter how long at this pwr range
[06:41:01] <ssi> what's the application?
[06:41:10] <Jymmm> laseer
[06:41:11] <ssi> you need a slot of a particular width milled into it, or what exactly
[06:41:15] <ssi> having a hard time picturing it
[06:41:28] <Jymmm> It's just a 1/8" thick ruler
[06:41:46] <Jymmm> but between the 2 and 4" points, need to be 1/16" thick
[06:42:04] <Jymmm> a groove
[06:43:01] <Jymmm> I just hate buying if for $30, seems excessive.
[06:43:10] <Jymmm> it*
[06:43:42] <ssi> oh i see
[06:43:56] <ssi> heh if you have no mill, $30 seems like a pretty reasonable price
[06:44:36] <SpeedEvil> How accurately?
[06:44:51] <SpeedEvil> Also - what for.
[06:45:14] <SpeedEvil> One obvious solution would be to take 23*1*1/16th stock, and glue it up
[06:46:22] <Jymmm> My (many) lasers ramp down near the ends of travel. Sadly (by design I found out), that instead of adding additional travel to accomidate this, they let the ramp down be within the working area. So you can't "bleed" over the edge, and this is to offset everything by inch and still be able to align materials to the existing rulers/guides
[06:47:32] <SpeedEvil> Seems glue would work fine
[06:48:11] <Jymmm> would add thickness and not be flat, that 1/16" groove is for the auto-focus
[06:48:42] <Jymmm> and material, literally a sheet of paper will be aligned to it
[06:49:01] <Jymmm> so it can't "slip under" the ruler
[06:49:38] <SpeedEvil> Use a smear of epoxy, and clamp. Getting a very, very thin layer is quite possible. Also - the 1/16th cut-out is not glued at all.
[06:49:42] <SpeedEvil> It's just a cutout
[06:49:50] <SpeedEvil> and is contiguous with the rest
[06:50:08] <ssi> $30 is sounding cheaper and cheaper
[06:50:45] <Jymmm> Yeah, I guess so. Just annoying that this is "by design", but I have to pay for it.
[06:51:08] <Jymmm> Kinda like beig jabbed with a pencil sorta thing.
[06:51:12] <ssi> heh
[06:52:19] <Jymmm> I know this for sure, becaseu I was tlaking to one of the techs, and he said they actually train them this is the characteristics of the laser.
[06:52:45] * Jymmm smacks jdh get your own damn clock!
[06:52:59] <ssi> wat
[06:53:23] * Jymmm wacks ssi PONG BIOTCH!
[06:53:26] <ssi> ahahahah
[06:54:46] <Jymmm> Shit, I'll just order the ruler.
[06:54:52] <ssi> attaboy
[06:55:06] <Jymmm> Now, more important..
[06:56:36] <ssi> freakin tired
[06:56:37] <Jymmm> I need to create a fixture to hold 50 poker chips that may vary in 1.5" diameter by 0.050" or so.
[06:56:51] <Jymmm> maybe .100"
[06:57:12] <jdh> slight conical fixture? or is Z critical
[06:57:16] <ssi> hm... if you made the fixture tapered, it'd self-center
[06:57:20] <ssi> but yeah, what jdh said
[06:57:40] <Jymmm> jdh: If Z could be TOP 0", that would be perfect.
[06:58:15] <Jymmm> jdh: But the laser is a bit forgiving there, depending on the arwork
[06:58:18] <jdh> grid with wavy supports?
[06:58:22] <ssi> .100 tolerance is kinda ridiculous isn't it?
[06:58:31] <jdh> not for cheap plastic
[06:58:45] <ssi> that's over 3/32"! that's huge
[06:59:00] <ssi> I'd figure they'd be injection molded, and have tighter tols than that
[06:59:06] <Jymmm> It can very batch to batch basically
[06:59:10] <ssi> ah
[06:59:20] <ssi> and you're not starting with one batch?
[06:59:35] <jdh> could be made from multiple molds
[06:59:39] <Jymmm> Well, I might end one, start another.
[06:59:51] <jdh> make your own chips
[07:00:01] <Jymmm> The thing is I need them centered primarily, as the artwork CLEARLY shows when off center.
[07:00:03] <ssi> conical fixture could work, cause the Z will be consistent from chip to chip, unless you cross a boundary
[07:00:22] <Jymmm> Ignore Z for now
[07:00:29] <jdh> vision alignment system
[07:00:39] <Jymmm> for 50 of them at a time?
[07:00:48] <jdh> nah, one at a time
[07:00:58] <jdh> seek/burn
[07:01:16] <Jymmm> Ha, I need to pump out a few hundred at a time per order, that ant gona happen =)
[07:01:31] <jdh> you coudl fixture all at once
[07:01:56] <Jymmm> Machine will fit 50 at a time, then load multiple fixtures
[07:02:51] <Jymmm> any how, any thoughts on the slop centering?
[07:02:59] <ssi> conical fixtures
[07:03:05] <ssi> that's the only thing that seems to meet your reqs
[07:03:10] <Jymmm> ssi: In english mudder fucker?!
[07:03:12] <ssi> without being quite complicated
[07:03:17] <ssi> cut a circle
[07:03:26] <ssi> but taper it
[07:03:34] <ssi> so the top of the fixture's diameter is bigger than the biggest chip
[07:03:39] <Jymmm> Then it won't be flat,
[07:03:42] <ssi> and the bottom of the fixture's diameter is smaller than the smallest
[07:03:51] <ssi> why won't it be flat?
[07:04:09] <Jymmm> Oh I see, that would vary Z too much
[07:04:17] <Jymmm> it will show in the final product
[07:04:18] <ssi> I was ignoring Z for now :)
[07:04:32] <Jymmm> Well, I thought you meant for something else
[07:04:40] <ssi> the only other thing I can imagine is some sort of spring loaded fixture to self-center
[07:04:43] <ssi> and it sounds too complex
[07:05:03] <ssi> that's why i was asking about the batch consistency
[07:05:12] <Jymmm> I was almost thinking like foam board, but more durable
[07:05:15] <jdh> use eccentric art so it doesn't look weird non-centered
[07:05:17] <ssi> if you had the conical fixture, and 50 had the same diameter, regardless of what it is
[07:05:24] <ssi> you could do those 50 at a time, and set the Z
[07:05:29] <ssi> Z should be consistent across the batch
[07:05:34] <ssi> because diameter was consistent
[07:05:49] <Loetmichel> *gnah* just recived the 10 new bearings for the proxxon FBS240/e... dismantled it: the fron bearing is fine. The motor bearing os gone... 1.2mm play in it... and thats not meant to be replaceable-> new motor ;-(
[07:05:55] <ssi> OH I KNOW
[07:05:58] <jdh> cull the crappy chips
[07:05:59] <ssi> Jymmm: flip it over
[07:06:03] <ssi> have the fixture ON TOP
[07:06:07] <ssi> so the chips are lying flat on the bed
[07:06:11] <ssi> but the conical fixture centers them
[07:06:44] <ssi> Loetmichel: aww
[07:06:48] <Jymmm> ssi: Nice idea, but the chips are double sided =)
[07:07:04] <ssi> Jymmm: why's that invalidate the idea?
[07:07:11] <ssi> you can't very well engrave both sides at once
[07:07:40] <Jymmm> ssi: when you flip it, the height changes and no way to focus it
[07:07:59] <ssi> no, height will be consistent
[07:08:00] <ssi> ok picture this
[07:08:05] <ssi> if you laid 50 chips on your bed
[07:08:13] <ssi> your Z/focus would be fine, right?
[07:08:17] <Jymmm> y
[07:08:25] <ssi> if you had a sheet with tapered holes cut in it
[07:08:31] <ssi> that you overlaid over those chips
[07:08:35] <ssi> that would wiggle them into the center of the holes
[07:08:37] <ssi> concentric
[07:08:42] <ssi> but you're still looking through the hole
[07:08:43] <Jymmm> ssi: pause
[07:08:50] <ssi> so the laser sees the chip that's lying flat on the bed
[07:09:09] <Jymmm> ssi: the fixture has to HOLD the chips, so I cna flip them all over at the same time
[07:09:19] <ssi> ugh
[07:09:33] <Jymmm> I'm not gonna flip 50 each time.
[07:10:01] <Jymmm> well, probably 25 at a time x 2 fixtures
[07:11:31] <Jymmm> I was almost thinking like this: << 1.5"+/_ >> where the inner < and > are semi "spring loaded"
[07:12:04] <ssi> .050" of radius is a lot of spring to take up
[07:12:10] <Jymmm> Technicaly / and \ in the top sheet, and \ and / on the bottom sheet
[07:12:32] <Jymmm> and sandwich the chips inbetween
[07:12:49] <Jymmm> ssi: but plastic flexes
[07:12:59] <ssi> not THAT much
[07:13:07] <ssi> if you presorted your chips to similar diameters that could work
[07:13:30] <Jymmm> ssi: Have you not seen the tab on the battery cover of a TV remote? It flexes way more than that
[07:13:57] <ssi> ok, so do it that way
[07:14:21] <Jymmm> Not sure what amterial, need to remain flat when carried/moved
[07:14:35] <ssi> something that flexes almost an eighth on demand
[07:14:41] <ssi> but remains rigid when yo uwant it to stay flat
[07:14:51] <ssi> 3M probably makes something like that right?
[07:15:15] <Jymmm> or add a backer board of some kind, or a frame
[07:15:57] <Jymmm> I still need a way to keep the sandwich closed
[07:16:20] <Jymmm> when the wall moves and tries to trip me
[07:16:38] <ssi> poker chips flying everywhere
[07:16:43] <Jymmm> yep
[07:17:53] <ssi> hm I wonder if I can hook up a pyvcp display to show me the value of Z in various coordinate systems
[07:35:05] <jdh> no you can't. You really want a separate monitor for those (obIRC)
[07:36:22] <ssi> jdh: I'm just trying to troubleshoot why I get wonky results
[07:37:03] <jdh> you can also log them from gcode
[08:14:39] <cabbage_breath> does HAL reside in flash on a motherboard? or is it embedded in the OS
[08:17:11] <_methods> all HAL components store data in shared memory
[08:17:18] <_methods> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html
[08:17:43] <cabbage_breath> thanks
[08:17:48] <_methods> yeah np
[08:55:47] <ssi> well.... I have a suspicion what's going on with my lost Z motion, and I think it's a bug in the thc component
[09:00:12] <cabbage_breath> try turning it off and turning it on again ;)
[09:03:05] <ssi> helpful.
[09:15:08] <ssi> zeeeeesh
[09:25:49] <ssi> rgh this is frustrating
[09:26:32] <jdh> can't find just the right date on craigslist?
[09:27:27] <ssi> that too
[09:31:14] <jthornton> ssi what's the problem?
[09:33:22] <ssi> jthornton: having problems with thc component
[09:33:42] <ssi> jthornton: I just hacked at it a bit, and I think it helped, but I'm not out of the woods yet
[09:34:03] <ssi> jthornton: when you move Z up with torch off, it removes the offset... the problem is it does it all at once, and it seems like it tries to command a move to the un-offset position all at once
[09:34:08] <ssi> ie infinite accel
[09:34:18] <ssi> I put pauses before and after, and I saw/heard the axis stall like a sumbitch
[09:34:36] <ssi> I made this change:
[09:34:37] <ssi> if(offset > z_diff){ // remove some
[09:34:37] <ssi> //offset -= z_diff;
[09:34:37] <ssi> offset -= correction_vel;
[09:34:49] <jthornton> try lowering the rate of change
[09:34:51] <ssi> and it doesn't seem to do that anymore
[09:34:57] <jthornton> sounds like it is too high
[09:35:02] <ssi> it wasn't using rate of change for the offset removal
[09:35:07] <ssi> it was removing the whole offset in one step
[09:35:23] <jthornton> thc or thcud?
[09:35:26] <ssi> thc
[09:35:44] <jthornton> been working for me for a few years
[09:35:47] <ssi> also I exposed offset as a pin so I can wire it into the vcp ui
[09:35:59] <ssi> yeah I figured, which is why i wanted to talk to you
[09:36:15] <ssi> I can't imagine what else could be causing it, but I lose 1/4" or so at the top of my Z travel after every cut
[09:36:31] <ssi> and the infinite accel/stalling motor seems to explain it
[09:36:46] <ssi> I wonder if the ja4 branch I'm on has different thc.comp code than you do
[09:37:27] <jthornton> I have no idea
[09:37:33] <jthornton> I'm using 2.5
[09:37:45] <ssi> is it possible you can paste your thc.comp source?
[09:38:17] <ssi> the other thing I thought was odd was I stole your vcp layout, and it has an offset display on screen, but the offset wasn't exposed as a pin
[09:38:21] <ssi> in the component
[09:38:56] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/3MXTawhr
[09:39:21] <ssi> no, that's the same code I had
[09:39:22] <ssi> hm
[09:40:31] <ssi> it's frustrating because I don't know if it's an issue with cam/post, or an issue with my touchoff sub, or an issue with thc, or a mechanical/electrical issue with the table
[09:41:18] <pcw_home> halscope the position command to the stepgen
[09:41:32] <ssi> pcw_home: yea I guess discontinuity would be obvious in scope huh
[09:41:57] <ssi> I wish I had a good way to test the thc without actually cutting
[09:42:22] <pcw_home> 9V battery an a pot?
[09:42:28] <pcw_home> and
[09:42:38] <jthornton> my config http://pastebin.com/0e8CvRQP
[09:43:22] <ssi> jthornton: thc-pid? that's a different component than i'm using
[09:44:18] <ssi> pcw_home: I could probably do that but I'll have to fake it out to think it's cutting... torch on and arc-ok signals, etc
[09:44:24] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/HdvBaugt
[09:44:54] <pcw_home> You can unlink them in hall and setp them manually
[09:44:55] <jthornton> IIRC I was playing around with the thc comp a while back
[09:45:22] <jthornton> it still looks like I remove it all at once :(
[09:46:13] * jthornton goes back to the shop
[09:46:34] <pcw_home> a possible work-around would be to set the stepgens accel limit
[09:47:46] <ssi> pcw_home: it appears that modifying the component to use the correction_vel parameter for offset removal as well as adding offset fixes the accel issue I was having
[09:47:52] <ssi> but I'm still having SOME kind of problem
[09:48:05] <ssi> before it was crashing on the second probe
[09:48:10] <ssi> now it's crashing on like the seventh
[09:48:54] <ssi> one issue was actually losing steps, another might be the code I'm generating may be monkeying with g92 offsets behind my back
[09:48:58] <ssi> I'm not really sure
[09:49:02] <ssi> I need to write a better g-code test case
[09:49:20] <JT-Shop> you have my touchoff.ngc?
[09:49:43] * JT-Shop wished someone smart would look at thc and thcud
[09:50:21] <ssi> JT-Shop: I know mine got modified a lot over the last couple years
[09:50:26] <ssi> lemme see if I can find yours..
[09:50:36] <ssi> got it
[09:51:18] <ssi> hm that might have something to do with it
[09:51:34] <ssi> I do a G92 Z0 after the probe, whereas you just do an incremental move
[09:51:45] <ssi> I could be blowing up my G92 offsets little by little right there
[09:52:24] <ssi> er wait you're doing a G92 too
[09:52:38] <ssi> I'm guessing 0.070" is your switch offset?
[09:53:09] <JT-Shop> yes
[09:53:35] <ssi> you do the arc transfer differently than me too
[09:53:44] <ssi> I have it wired through an xor in hal to motion feedhold
[09:55:32] <ssi> other than that we're doing the same stuff
[09:56:02] <ssi> this is mine
[09:56:03] <ssi> http://pastebin.com/NsPm3waD
[09:57:23] <DaViruz> what's arc transfer?
[09:57:46] <ssi> DaViruz: it's when the pilot arc transfers to the plate and makes a full arc
[09:57:55] <DaViruz> oh.
[09:57:58] <ssi> the plasma power supply senses it and closes a dry contact, which I pick up as an IO
[09:58:02] <ssi> can't start motion til the arc transfers
[09:58:08] <DaViruz> i see
[09:58:23] <JT-Shop> G0 Z[#5063 + 0.07] (Move to Probe Trip point + switch hysteresis)
[09:58:44] <ssi> JT-Shop: where's that?
[09:59:10] <ssi> that's not in the touchoff.ngc that's on your site
[09:59:16] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/isaSFyLR
[09:59:23] <JT-Shop> I think I forgot to update it
[09:59:34] <ssi> hm
[09:59:42] <ssi> does that account for it moving beyond the trip point?
[10:00:02] <JT-Shop> that gives a more accurate touchoff point
[10:01:14] <ssi> suppose it's worth changing to M66 style arc transfer?
[10:01:17] <JT-Shop> I'm pretty sure cradek or someone said a while back "hey dude why aren't you using #5063?"
[10:01:31] <ssi> yeah that makes a lot of sense actually
[10:01:41] <ssi> it probably can store the location as soon as the line is asserted, but the axis will continue moving
[10:01:42] <JT-Shop> I've been using M66 from the start
[10:02:02] <ssi> hm actually I bet changing to M66 will make it more feasible to be able to edge start
[10:07:50] <ssi> JT-Shop: as an aside, in your files on the net, there are arc under / ok / over voltage lights in the pyvcp panel
[10:07:53] <ssi> JT-Shop: but they're not hooked up
[10:07:58] <ssi> did you ever make those work?
[10:13:04] <JT-Shop> doesn't look like I ever hooked them up
[10:13:48] <JT-Shop> my postgui.hal file http://pastebin.com/8a0DEdJi
[10:16:42] <zeeshan|2> hey jt you'll know about this
[10:16:46] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/TbW00uc.jpg
[10:16:53] <ssi> it always ends up eventually touching the plate at the before the probe starts and faulting
[10:16:59] <zeeshan|2> my press came with a 20 ton hand pump
[10:17:14] <zeeshan|2> is there an easy way to retrofit a pneumatic method
[10:17:23] <zeeshan|2> instead of having a handle
[10:17:37] <zeeshan|2> or do i have to replace the whole pump
[10:17:57] <jdh> how about an air cylinder that strokes the pump.
[10:18:21] <zeeshan|2> like make an attachment
[10:18:26] <zeeshan|2> and remove handle
[10:18:48] <zeeshan|2> i wonder what kind of pneumatic cylinder i could use?
[10:21:17] <jdh> something with enough stroke and force to pump the pump
[10:23:06] <ssi> zeeshan|2: hf sells air-powered pneumatic cylinders
[10:24:02] <jdh> http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/powerpack.html
[10:25:02] <ssi> JT-Shop: I'm definitely still losing motion somewhere; after the program faulted, I jogged to the top of Z travel and there's at least a quarter inch above the home switch
[10:25:20] <ssi> probably closer to a half accounting for how far the switch arm moves
[10:26:37] <JT-Shop> does the DRO show an offset?
[10:27:30] <ssi> no
[10:27:41] <ssi> in machine coords it's at 0
[10:27:48] <ssi> meaning it should be on the home switch
[10:28:34] <JT-Shop> what's your stepgen max velocity? mine is STEPGEN_MAX_ACC = 60
[10:28:44] <JT-Shop> acc I meant
[10:28:45] <ssi> I just turned it down to 60
[10:28:56] <ssi> axis is at 50, and I had the stepgen at 100 for some reason
[10:29:03] <ssi> also I think I see one issue
[10:29:26] <ssi> sheetcam is generating code which moves Z to the pierce height before it probes
[10:29:32] <ssi> I'd rather it start the probe from the clearance height
[10:29:47] <ssi> cause this 16ga is warping enough that 0.080" is touching the metal before the probe
[10:30:54] <ssi> I put a pause in the touchoff... never would have seen it otherwise
[10:30:57] <JT-Shop> I keep having to screw with the sheetcam post to keep it from doing stupid things
[10:31:10] <ssi> it's doing this:
[10:31:11] <ssi> G0 Z0.5000 X4.5335 Y5.8140 Z0.0800
[10:31:11] <ssi> o<touchoff> call [0.080] [0.1] [0.02] (Touchoff and start cutting)
[10:31:29] <ssi> up to rapid height, then rapid to next pierce location, then down to pierce height, THEN the probe
[10:31:45] <JT-Shop> yea, until you touchoff the control doesn't know where the top of the material is
[10:31:50] <ssi> right
[10:32:00] <ssi> I need to hack the post to get rid of that final Z0.080
[10:33:21] <JT-Shop> this is the post I'm currently using but it still has one issue IIRC http://pastebin.com/FWZGf1Sm
[10:34:01] <JT-Shop> watch out for the F that sheetcam puts in the G code after the probe
[10:34:16] <ssi> yeah it's there alright
[10:34:20] <JT-Shop> IIRC you have to have the same F for both entries on the tool
[10:35:00] <ssi> why do I not see the touchoff sub call in the post?
[10:36:14] <ssi> it's in OnPenDown() in my post
[10:36:15] <ssi> but not yours
[10:36:16] <ssi> weird
[10:37:14] <JT-Shop> argg let me double check
[10:37:50] <ssi> I've had really bad luck with sheetcam's tool crib btw
[10:38:13] <ssi> I would really rather decouple feeds pierce info from sheetcam, and have it all in linuxcnc
[10:38:19] <ssi> not sure how exactly yet
[10:38:19] <JT-Shop> I really need to clean out the post dir
[10:38:26] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/vpDDdApP
[10:39:55] <ssi> ok that looks more like mine :)
[10:40:13] <JT-Shop> I grabbed the one with the latest date first
[10:40:33] <ssi> hm it's putting F20 everywhere
[10:40:38] <ssi> that's 1200ipm!
[10:40:45] <ssi> no wonder it's cutting so badly
[10:42:22] <ssi> so I don't think I can take out that second Z move with just post
[10:42:39] <ssi> cause if I modify the onrapid and take out the z move, that takes out BOTH z moves, including the one to the clearance plane
[10:43:24] <ssi> ugh this is why I hate cam :P
[10:43:33] <t12> dang
[10:43:35] <t12> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-TSW-1-Servowriter-Servo-Track-Writer-Hard-Disk-Platter-Encoder-PARTS-3-/131225820842?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8dab1eaa
[10:43:38] <t12> whole set of them
[10:44:22] <ssi> t12: what am I looking at?
[10:44:29] <t12> hard drive servo track writer
[10:44:42] <ssi> I'm not sure what that means exactly :)
[10:44:46] <t12> also a nice surface plate on a stand
[10:45:00] <t12> though maybe not ground well who knows
[10:45:50] <t12> modern hard drives have embedded reference tracks to position the head
[10:45:56] <t12> cause open loop wont pull it off
[10:46:09] <t12> those are devices for laying the servo tracks on the platters
[10:46:14] <ssi> ahh
[10:47:52] <ssi> JT-Shop: I wonder if I shuold update my version of sheetcam
[10:49:26] <ssi> haha yeah I'm running 4.1.10
[10:49:32] <ssi> and 6.1.5 is current for linux
[10:50:14] <ssi> I wonder if my license applies for the new versio
[10:50:55] <t12> http://www.go-dove.com/en/auction/view?id=7941427
[10:50:56] <t12> also dang
[10:51:08] <JT-Shop> ssi, I'm running 4.1.11
[10:54:23] <ssi> I can't tell what freakin version I'm running now
[10:55:00] <ssi> it looks exactly the same
[10:55:03] <ssi> behaves exactly the same
[10:55:24] <ssi> I really hate other peoples' crappy gui software
[10:58:55] <ssi> at this point I'm not sure what to do
[10:59:12] <ssi> maybe it's possible to customize sheetcam to generate code that won't crash
[10:59:13] <ssi> maybe it's not!
[10:59:33] <_methods> how much is sheetcam?
[10:59:39] <_methods> are you just using it for nesting?
[10:59:41] <ssi> I dunno, $150 or so
[10:59:46] <ssi> I don't even use it for nesting
[10:59:47] <_methods> well that's not bad
[10:59:51] <ssi> I already own it
[10:59:53] <_methods> just pathing
[10:59:59] <ssi> it just doesn't work worth a $150 flip
[11:00:16] <_methods> bummer
[11:00:32] <_methods> man pathing and nesting software is a racket
[11:01:33] <ssi> I can't tell what version I'm running
[11:01:42] <ssi> I was on 4.1.10 at least according to the installer that was on the filesystem
[11:01:49] <ssi> I downloaded 6.1.5 supposedly
[11:01:58] <ssi> unpacked and ran it, and it looks identical
[11:02:02] <ssi> I can't find a version number in the ui
[11:02:08] <ssi> if I click help, it opens a help browser
[11:02:15] <ssi> which says v5.0.6!
[11:02:33] <ssi> cnc@plasma:~/sheetcamtngv6/data$ cat SheetCamTNG-dev.ver
[11:02:33] <ssi> [Update]
[11:02:33] <ssi> version=6.1.5
[11:02:42] <ssi> so yeah, I have no clue wtf it's doing
[11:04:26] <JT-Shop> that sucks
[11:05:10] <ssi> ok it says 6.1.5 in the splash window when it starts
[11:06:31] <_methods> so sheetcam is not worth it?
[11:06:40] <ssi> I suppose that depends
[11:07:00] <ssi> it'll be pretty frustrating if I have to throw it away and write a custom cam because it's not customizable enough
[11:08:55] <ssi> ugh
[11:09:02] <ssi> forum requires moderator approval before your account is activated
[11:09:40] <ssi> I guess I could write a post-post-processor
[11:09:43] <ssi> D:
[11:09:54] <_methods> hehe
[11:10:09] <ssi> probably ought to just break down and write my own cam
[11:11:15] <JT-Shop> I've managed to get it to work for me but just barely
[11:11:35] <ssi> JT-Shop: can you show me a sample of the gcode it generates?
[11:13:11] <mozmck> ssi: the post processors in sheetcam are in lua
[11:13:42] <ssi> mozmck: the problem specifically is the post processor exposes actions that are too low a level
[11:13:50] <ssi> mozmck: the post has functions like "this is how to rapid"
[11:14:03] <mozmck> the version number is shown in the About box
[11:14:10] <ssi> but something above the post is saying "rapid to clearance plane, then rapid to next pierce, then rapid to pierce height"
[11:14:17] <ssi> I need to eliminate the "rapid to pierce height"
[11:14:22] <ssi> because the touchoff does that
[11:14:29] <ssi> but I don't know how to get at the higher levels of the cam
[11:14:36] <mozmck> too low?
[11:14:38] <mozmck> I see.
[11:14:47] <ssi> yeah the sheet warps and it crashes at that height
[11:14:56] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/pJy2hPWE
[11:14:59] <ssi> pierce height for 16ga is 0.080", and it's warped enough at that point to crash
[11:15:01] <mozmck> It's pretty configurable.
[11:15:17] <ssi> well I'd like it to be, but I don't have a clue how to go about it
[11:15:26] <mozmck> I thought pierce height is a configuration setting
[11:15:27] <ssi> I was going to post on the forum, but I have to be approved
[11:15:53] <ssi> it is... I don't want to change the pierce height, because it passes pierce height to the touchoff sub
[11:15:54] <mozmck> Les is pretty good at support and fixing problems.
[11:15:58] <ssi> JT-Shop: yours does the same thing
[11:16:04] <ssi> mozmck: take a look at the link JT just posted
[11:16:08] <ssi> lines 12 thru 15
[11:16:40] <ssi> 12: go to clearance plane, 13: go to pierce location, 14: go to pierce height, 15: call touchoff sub with pierce height, delay, cut height
[11:16:44] <JT-Shop> yea, but my Z0 is top of travel not material
[11:17:23] <ssi> mozmck: if I change the pierce height, then it'll pass the wrong value to the sub
[11:17:24] * JT-Shop wanders in for a bowl of gruel
[11:18:11] <mozmck> interesting - I think it should touchoff before moving to pierce height.
[11:19:03] <mozmck> I haven't really used sheetcam for plasma enough to know all the details. They use it a *lot* at the shop, and our customers do.
[11:19:21] <ssi> mozmck: the touchoff sub does move to pierce height, so yes I agree
[11:19:49] <ssi> I could do something EXTRA hacky like put a G0 Z0.5 in my touchoff sub
[11:20:02] <ssi> so it'll pick up, move, set down, pick up, probe down, pick up, and pierce
[11:20:40] <mozmck> You can tell it how often to touch off - at least with the post we use.
[11:20:53] <ssi> it touches off every pierce, which is what I want
[11:20:58] <ssi> I have the touchoff in OnPenDown()
[11:21:09] <mozmck> ok
[11:21:51] <ssi> is there actual documentation for writing post?
[11:22:15] <mozmck> I don't think there's much documentation for anything...
[11:22:18] <jthornton> why is Z0 your material top?
[11:22:36] <ssi> jthornton: why wouldn't it be?
[11:22:39] <mozmck> I wrote a plugin for it and had to dig through stuff to find much, and ask Les a lot.
[11:22:42] <jthornton> I thimk there is a little
[11:22:50] <mozmck> jthornton: that's pretty standard I think.
[11:22:54] <jthornton> that's what touch off sets Z 0
[11:23:08] <ssi> right
[11:23:14] <ssi> so when it touches off, material top is Z0
[11:23:18] <ssi> before the program runs it isn't
[11:23:25] <ssi> but after the first cut, material top is Z0
[11:23:28] <ssi> due to touchoff
[11:23:42] <jthornton> oh your not clearing the g92?
[11:23:51] <ssi> no
[11:24:14] <ssi> what the cam does is almost correct... after a cut it rapids to clearance height, which is 0.5"
[11:24:18] <ssi> should be 0.5" above the material top
[11:24:24] <ssi> high enough to be over any warp lift
[11:24:33] <ssi> it's just making an extra move that I want to take out
[11:25:32] <jthornton> G92.1 (Cancel offsets and set to zero)
[11:26:37] <jthornton> lime 38
[11:26:52] <jthornton> line
[11:27:04] <ssi> line 38 of what
[11:27:07] <ssi> your program?
[11:27:15] <jthornton> the sample g code
[11:27:26] <ssi> yeah that's in the post's OnFinish()
[11:27:35] <ssi> when the program's done, it clears the g92 ofsets
[11:28:02] <jthornton> so after that Z0 is not the top of the material any more
[11:28:52] <jthornton> then I do a G0 Z0 after to clear offsets and move the torch up to the top
[11:28:57] <ssi> http://www.forum.sheetcam.com/viewtopic.php?p=6641&sid=27c2cbf248394566423bd170cac6ebe1
[11:32:49] * jthornton resists clicking with only 0.2 gig left for the month
[11:32:58] <mozmck> ssi: does it crash into the metal on each touchoff?
[11:33:16] <mozmck> or just the first?
[11:34:11] <ssi> not the first
[11:34:26] <ssi> it crashes on the last touchoff
[11:34:31] <ssi> because when it crashes the program faults
[11:34:32] <ssi> heh
[11:34:34] <jthornton> are you running the same g code over and over?
[11:34:40] <ssi> but it's whichever one causes it to warp and hit
[11:35:00] <ssi> jthornton: more or less, why?
[11:35:20] <jthornton> if you crash and stop the program you will have to to G92.1 in the MID
[11:35:26] <jthornton> MDI
[11:35:40] <ssi> I usually end up rehoming and starting over
[11:35:47] <ssi> I've wasted a LOT of metal this morning
[11:36:12] <Jymmm> ssi: That's called recycling =)
[11:36:20] <jthornton> pre-cut
[11:36:35] <ssi> problem is if a pierce lands on top of a cut area, then the program faults
[11:37:00] <jthornton> because the torch does not fire?
[11:37:57] <jthornton> if you abort the program after touchoff you have to do G92.1 in MDI before you start again
[11:39:43] <jthornton> or if you only want to clear the Z you can G53 G0 Z0 then G92 Z0 I think
[11:39:56] <ssi> right now I'm using G92 offsets for the 0,0 point of the part I'm cutting
[11:40:11] <ssi> I shuold probably change that to be G54 0,0, and then G92.1
[11:40:32] <jthornton> I never use G54 offsets on my plasma
[11:40:41] <jthornton> touch off takes care of all my offsets
[11:40:48] <ssi> touchoff goes into G92, yeah?
[11:40:55] <jthornton> yea
[11:41:02] <ssi> so if you do G92.1, it blows your touchoff away
[11:41:19] <jthornton> ah maybe not
[11:41:22] <jthornton> just looking
[11:42:07] <ssi> I tried to implement what les suggested in that forum post
[11:42:17] <ssi> and it made the rapid down to pierce height go away,
[11:42:25] <ssi> but it also made the rapid up to clearance go away
[11:43:18] <jthornton> ok, the post puts a G92 X0 Y0 before touchoff then touchoff sets G92 for Z
[11:44:15] <ssi> jthornton: the sample code you posted is a bad example because it only has one pierce
[11:44:37] <ssi> my post does not call G92 X0 Y0
[11:45:14] <jthornton> yea that is just an outside cut
[11:46:33] <ssi> these problems crop up with multiple pierces
[11:46:43] <jthornton> just looking at a multiple cut and there is a G0 Z0.5
[11:46:54] <ssi> then a G0 X Y
[11:46:57] <jthornton> then a Z0
[11:46:58] <ssi> then a G0 Z 0.075
[11:46:58] <jthornton> 1
[11:47:06] <jthornton> Z0.1
[11:47:15] <ssi> whatever your pierce height is set to
[11:47:19] <ssi> that's the one I'm trying to get rid of
[11:47:50] <jthornton> I see what you mean now
[11:48:31] <jthornton> that may need a seek and destroy mission after the G code is generated
[11:49:13] <jthornton> I see a funny M0 in the middle of a two part cut
[11:49:16] <ssi> I can write a script that kills those in fifteen minutes
[11:49:20] <ssi> but that's not the point
[11:49:29] <jthornton> understand
[11:49:37] <ssi> then I have to run a postprocessor to post process my post processor output
[11:50:20] <ssi> yodawg, I herd u liek post, so i wrote a post to post your post
[11:51:16] <jthornton> how about a rat writ rit for a rat
[11:52:02] <jdh> you have been on the interwebbes too long. Go outside.
[11:52:57] <ssi> jdh: I haven't slept
[11:53:30] <jdh> that explains it.
[11:53:54] <ssi> jthornton: don't let me forget that it's putting F20 in there everywhere
[11:53:59] <ssi> need to figure out where it's getting that from
[11:54:38] <jthornton> probably you have that configured as the pierce speed
[11:54:47] <jthornton> I set them both to my cut speed
[11:55:45] <ssi> ahh
[11:59:34] <jthornton> let me know when you write a plasma CAM
[11:59:55] <mozmck> ssi: I don't know if it will help, but you might look at some of the posts in the zip at the bottom of this page: http://www.candcnc.com/manuals.htm
[12:02:00] <mozmck> N0520 G00 Z1.0000
[12:02:00] <mozmck> N0530 X18.1916 Y11.3346
[12:02:00] <mozmck> N0540 G28.1 Z0.50 (Start Touch-Off )
[12:02:00] <mozmck> N0550 G92 Z0.0
[12:02:00] <mozmck> N0560 G00 Z0.0000 (Switch Offset Lift)
[12:02:01] <mozmck> N0570 G92 Z0.0
[12:02:01] <mozmck> N0580 G00 Z0.0500
[12:02:02] <mozmck> N0590 M03
[12:02:44] <ssi> 'll take a look
[12:02:57] <mozmck> there's a sample touch off
[12:02:58] <ssi> jthornton: if I write a plasma cam, it'll run only on osx out of spite
[12:03:08] <jthornton> lol
[12:03:21] <mozmck> heh, I'll never run it for sure!
[12:03:34] <jthornton> mozmck, we are using a subroutine for touchoff
[12:03:40] <Jymmm> Hackintosh!
[12:04:48] <jthornton> ssi, you could hack the touchoff to divide the pierce height by 10 or something
[12:04:50] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:05:12] <mozmck> jthornton: does that change things much? the code I have never does the move to pierce height ssi is complaining about before a touchoff, it does do a rapid to 1" though
[12:06:20] <jthornton> sheetcam on the second cut will rapid to pierce height
[12:06:46] <mozmck> not in any code we have run.
[12:07:07] <ssi> mozmck: send me a post?
[12:07:09] <jthornton> actually it rapids to pierce height on every start
[12:07:11] <mozmck> after an m05 it does the g00 z1.0000 every time.
[12:07:19] <ssi> mozmck: yeah, then what?
[12:07:21] <mozmck> then does a touch off.
[12:07:31] <ssi> link me some sample gcode?
[12:07:32] <mozmck> see the code I posted about.
[12:07:37] <mozmck> above that is.
[12:07:43] <ssi> right ok
[12:07:55] <ssi> can I see the post that generates that?
[12:07:57] <IchGuckLive> mozmck: why dont you look in the sampl touchoff ngc
[12:08:11] <IchGuckLive> you r gcode starts at Z1
[12:08:35] <mozmck> ssi: the posts are in the zip at the bottom of the page I just linked to.
[12:08:50] <jthornton> so instead of calling the touchoff sub you have the touchoff in the sheetcam post
[12:09:19] <ssi> mozmck: those posts are wildly complex :/
[12:09:37] <mozmck> maybe that's why it says "advanced" :)
[12:10:24] <ssi> yeah but I think you're doing all kinds of stuff in your post that a more sophisticated system might do in its motion controller :)
[12:10:30] <mozmck> they have a lot of stuff for our automatic voltage/current stuff.
[12:11:01] <mozmck> that could be, but we have to work with what we have, and still make it affordable :)
[12:12:58] <IchGuckLive> touchoff is started at G38.x not G28
[12:13:29] <mozmck> these posts were written for mach3 btw, so there will probably be some differences
[12:13:31] <ssi> IchGuckLive: so he's not the one with a problem, I am
[12:13:55] <ssi> IchGuckLive: sheetcam is generating code which rapids down to pierce height before it calls the touchoff routine, and when the material warps I'm getting crashes
[12:14:07] <ssi> IchGuckLive: I'm trying to figure out how to make sheetcam NOT put that rapid down to pierce height in
[12:14:10] <ssi> and it's not going well
[12:14:23] <IchGuckLive> o<znullen> sub
[12:14:24] <IchGuckLive> G91 ( relative mode for probing)
[12:14:26] <IchGuckLive> G38.2 Z-25 F100 ( trip switch on the way down)
[12:14:27] <IchGuckLive> G90 ( absolute mode)
[12:14:29] <IchGuckLive> G92 Z-3
[12:14:30] <IchGuckLive> G1 Z3.5 F150
[12:14:32] <IchGuckLive> o<znullen> endsub
[12:14:33] <IchGuckLive> M2
[12:14:39] <ssi> the problem is not my touchoff sub; it works fine
[12:14:44] <ssi> the problem is the path that sheetcam generates
[12:15:06] <IchGuckLive> you can modify sheetcam posts
[12:15:12] <ds3> that is definable.... I think as part of your tool
[12:15:18] <ds3> something like safe height
[12:15:19] <ssi> yes, sorta
[12:15:26] <ssi> I can modify OnRapid()
[12:15:34] <ssi> but I can't modify whatever's above that, the path planning
[12:15:34] <ds3> been a year since I last used it
[12:16:09] <ssi> Les put a hacky solution on the forum, which is to put logic in OnRapid() to detect moves only in Z that go negative, and return before posting them
[12:16:14] <ssi> which is HORRIBLE in my mind
[12:16:14] <IchGuckLive> my plasmas got a fixed XY startpoint so i modifid sheetcam to give ma at 10/10mm a start on every g-code
[12:16:18] <ssi> but that's what I'm trying to make work
[12:16:27] <IchGuckLive> so it does the touchoff in the cam itself
[12:16:59] <ds3> ssi: is the config option not working or?
[12:17:02] <IchGuckLive> there is a ONStart()
[12:17:15] <ssi> ds3: I don't know what you're asking
[12:17:17] <IchGuckLive> OnProgEnd also
[12:17:27] <ssi> IchGuckLive: none of that helps
[12:17:33] <IchGuckLive> you can do funy things in sheetcam
[12:17:49] <ssi> here, look at this
[12:17:49] <ssi> http://www.forum.sheetcam.com/viewtopic.php?p=6641&sid=27c2cbf248394566423bd170cac6ebe1
[12:17:53] <ssi> that's the exact same problem I have
[12:18:05] <ssi> I'm trying to implement the solution that les suggested there
[12:18:11] <ssi> and even that won't work
[12:18:14] <Jymmm> Just curious... Does EVERYONE know the size of a 1976 silver dollar?
[12:18:31] <IchGuckLive> ssi ias i said i move on G53 in first place so the mashine corrdinates are in use not the workpiuce
[12:18:46] <Jymmm> for purposes of scale
[12:19:06] <IchGuckLive> as i do only parts with max 12mm height i lnow to move on G53 to a save and good Touchoff point
[12:19:15] <ssi> Jymmm: why 1976?
[12:19:24] <ssi> didn't they quit the 90% silver in 1964?
[12:19:39] <Jymmm> ssi: Not silver content of the coin,
[12:19:49] <ssi> IchGuckLive: even that doesn't do me any good because sheetcam insists on jogging down to pierce height before every pierce
[12:19:55] <IchGuckLive> ssi is it your mashine ?
[12:20:02] <ssi> Jymmm: yeah I know but the size changes based on the content
[12:20:12] <ssi> IchGuckLive: whose machine would it be if not mine?
[12:20:38] <Jymmm> ssas opposed to $1 coins of today
[12:20:44] <Jymmm> ssi: as opposed to $1 coins of today
[12:20:45] <ssi> Jymmm: wanna see a 2014 silver dollar?
[12:20:55] <ssi> I think they're bigger than 1964 fwiw
[12:21:02] <IchGuckLive> why dont you delete the pirce height at all and go for fixed i use 3.5mm to firer and then go down to 1,.5mm to work
[12:21:05] <Jymmm> ssi: is it .999 proof, then no
[12:21:06] <ssi> but I don't recall cause it's been awhile since I've seen a pre 64
[12:21:10] <ssi> yes
[12:21:25] <ssi> IchGuckLive: because the cam doesn't work that way ffs
[12:22:01] <ds3> ssi: there should be a safe height settings in the sheetcam tools thingie... I think that controls how far it will rapid down to
[12:22:02] <ssi> I can make the touchoff sub go all the way to the top before piercing, but that's not going to stop the cam from crashing the fucking machine into the metal first
[12:22:36] <IchGuckLive> function OnPenDown()
[12:22:38] <IchGuckLive> post.ModalText (" G00")
[12:22:39] <IchGuckLive> post.ModalNumber (" Z", pierceHeight * scale, "0.000")
[12:22:41] <IchGuckLive> post.Text ("\nM200\nM03\n")
[12:22:43] <IchGuckLive> post.Text ("G01 Z1.5 F500\nM160\n")
[12:22:45] <IchGuckLive> end
[12:22:54] <ssi> pendown happens after it's already jogged down to pierceheight
[12:23:03] <IchGuckLive> the m160 starts the THC
[12:23:20] <ssi> IchGuckLive: pastebin a gcode file that was produced with that post
[12:23:46] <ssi> ds3: if you're talking about the rapid clearance variable, that doesn't help
[12:23:56] <ssi> ds3: there's a "plunge safety clearance", but I don't know what that does
[12:24:36] <mozmck> oh, that sounds familiar
[12:24:47] <mozmck> did you look at the help file for that variable?
[12:25:18] <mozmck> I think it will rapid down to that height before doing a plunge.
[12:26:56] <ssi> there's a help file? :P
[12:27:17] <mozmck> click the "Help" button in job options...
[12:27:34] <mozmck> Not sure that variable will help though after looking at it.
[12:28:54] <ssi> no, I don't think so
[12:28:58] <ssi> plus I set it and it does nothing
[12:29:18] <mozmck> try using the MP1000-THC post and see what code it generates.
[12:30:51] <ssi> it does the same thing
[12:31:02] <ssi> N0240 M05
[12:31:02] <ssi> N0250 G00 Z0.5000
[12:31:02] <ssi> N0260 X4.5335 Y5.8140
[12:31:02] <ssi> N0270 Z0.0800
[12:31:02] <ssi> N0280 G28.1 Z0.12
[12:31:05] <ssi> N0290 G92 Z0.0
[12:31:13] <ssi> line 270 rapids to pierce height before probing
[12:33:22] <ssi> if your sheetcam doesn't put that move in with a stock MP1000-THC post, then you've got something different outside the post from me
[12:37:31] <ssi> hm interesting
[12:37:45] <ssi> there's a post labeled "Linuxcnc-THC" that doesn't do it
[12:38:09] <ssi> oh wait yes it does
[12:39:49] <ben5446> does anyone know how to move a single joint in g-code if you have non-trivial kinematics?
[12:40:41] <ssi> if you're in joint mode (free mode) you should be able to move them directly
[12:41:02] <ben5446> yes i can, but i need to move them as part of a g-code program
[12:41:19] <ssi> oh... I'm not sure you can do that
[12:43:02] <mozmck> ssi: looks like it does it for me with the MP1000-THC post, but not the DTHC-HYT-TAP_SoftPierce+Marker-rev10a post
[12:45:30] <ssi> ok
[12:45:39] <ssi> I just have no clue what's going on in that big one
[12:45:44] <IchGuckLive> ssi: is the Z0.08 all you need to get rifd off
[12:46:19] <ssi> probably has something to do with this:
[12:46:20] <IchGuckLive> then just do a if statment
[12:46:24] <ssi> if(firstRef == true) or (dist >= refDistance) then
[12:46:24] <ssi> post.ModalNumber (" Z", safeZ * scale, "0.0000")
[12:46:24] <ssi> else
[12:46:24] <ssi> post.ModalNumber (" Z", endZ * scale, "0.0000")
[12:46:24] <ssi> end
[12:46:26] <ssi> end
[12:46:37] <ssi> IchGuckLive: yes, but what if statement? that's the trick :P
[12:47:28] <IchGuckLive> if (endZ == 0.08)
[12:47:51] <ssi> not good enough
[12:47:55] <ssi> it's not always going to be 0.08
[12:48:15] <ssi> hm could do if endZ == pierceHeight
[12:48:20] <ssi> so freakin hacky :/
[12:48:46] <mozmck> yuck!
[12:48:47] <IchGuckLive> that woudt work
[12:49:10] <ssi> mozmck: I agree
[12:49:11] <mozmck> Well, it has to be something in the post if one does it and another does not.
[12:50:25] <ssi> heh if endZ == pierceHeight didn't work
[12:50:32] <ssi> I need to figure out how to print debug info from the post
[12:52:44] <IchGuckLive> the the mp1000-thc acts on distance move
[12:53:11] <IchGuckLive> you need a else statment
[12:53:32] <IchGuckLive> if (endZ == pierceHeight)then
[12:53:42] <IchGuckLive> else
[12:53:48] <IchGuckLive> end#
[12:53:50] <IchGuckLive> end
[12:54:43] <IchGuckLive> i dont like the G28 at all
[12:55:31] <Tom_itx> why?
[12:55:46] <IchGuckLive> points can be hasardas
[12:57:30] <IchGuckLive> you can move with G53 to a well known position on yor mashine that is always the same untill you do a switch movement
[12:58:05] <IchGuckLive> ok mabe im oldscool on that
[12:58:06] <ssi> ( endZ: 0.5000, pierceHeight: 0.0800)G0 Z0.5000
[12:58:06] <ssi> ( endZ: 0.5000, pierceHeight: 0.0800) X3.6836 Y6.9617
[12:58:07] <ssi> ( endZ: 0.0800, pierceHeight: 0.0800)(nuke!) Z0.0800
[12:58:09] <ssi> getting closer
[12:58:16] <ssi> this is a real pain in the ass to develop on
[12:58:34] <IchGuckLive> as i do like G10 L1 to modify the ttoltable inside G-code to get a more efficent workflow on CRC
[12:59:27] <IchGuckLive> ssi BUT yiou are able to do it some CAM dont let you modify at all
[13:00:20] <ssi> nope, it screwed me again
[13:00:44] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[13:01:40] <IchGuckLive> ssi coudt you please remind us all to your LIKED working g-code
[13:01:50] <IchGuckLive> 1. in init set your G28
[13:02:16] <IchGuckLive> then on pen down
[13:02:29] <IchGuckLive> what shoudt be the action you like
[13:02:56] <IchGuckLive> do you work on M66 to get the Plasma startted signal
[13:03:36] <IchGuckLive> or just move to pirce height fire and wait G4P2 and then down to workheight
[13:04:01] <ssi> hang on a sec
[13:04:07] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[13:04:23] <IchGuckLive> there are many ways to do it
[13:05:45] <IchGuckLive> id persenly like to move to the next start point in Safe height and then wait for plasma ready to fire as then the BLOW out is not swaying water
[13:06:04] <ssi> http://pastebin.com/tHHkN7MM
[13:06:14] <ssi> there's three sections there
[13:06:21] <ssi> first two are two different post OnRapid() attempts
[13:06:24] <ssi> and the output from them
[13:06:26] <ssi> third section is my touchoff
[13:06:31] <IchGuckLive> the sheecam waits on the last point and if plasma needs 50% on refire time it will blow you a gallon of water
[13:06:37] <ssi> what I don't understand is why BOTH Z moves disappear
[13:07:02] <IchGuckLive> post.eol()
[13:07:47] <ssi> that's not an answer, nor is it THE answer
[13:09:46] <IchGuckLive> the else does not have a endofl ine
[13:10:16] <IchGuckLive> and we are only triing to anderstand what your goal is to bee meet
[13:10:35] <IchGuckLive> you want on rapid
[13:10:58] <IchGuckLive> to do What
[13:11:13] <ssi> to not insert the spurious jog to pierce height
[13:12:18] <IchGuckLive> so your else is the standard
[13:12:36] <ssi> yes
[13:12:40] <ssi> but it doesn't behave rationally
[13:12:54] <ssi> look at the three lines where I'm printing comments
[13:13:26] <IchGuckLive> http://pastebin.com/BmfVzTL7
[13:14:28] <ssi> so out of curiosity
[13:14:33] <ssi> did you bother to read down the screen at all?
[13:14:38] <ssi> to see where I did that exactly, and it didn't work?
[13:15:19] <ssi> look at line 54
[13:15:31] <ssi> it prints (things!) meaninng it's in the else block where I do the G0
[13:15:34] <ssi> and it prints G0
[13:15:40] <ssi> but no Z0.5000
[13:15:43] <ssi> makes NO sense
[13:16:56] <IchGuckLive> is your pirce heigt the work hight
[13:17:18] <IchGuckLive> you pirce at and work at
[13:18:01] <IchGuckLive> i never got in troubel with fixed heights
[13:18:47] <ssi> fixed heights have nothing to do with my problem; sheetcam is going to jog into the metal no matter what fixed heights I use
[13:19:06] <ssi> unless I lie to it about the pierce height
[13:19:44] <IchGuckLive> ok
[13:20:15] <IchGuckLive> you want to see in line 54 G0 Z0.5
[13:20:25] <ssi> correct
[13:20:39] <ssi> but NOT Z0.0800 on 56
[13:24:32] <IchGuckLive> im to old to overthink it
[13:26:54] <JT-Shop> ssi, look in languages html for post.html
[13:27:10] <IchGuckLive> you did remove the standard output outside the else
[13:27:36] <ssi> JT-Shop: where? I don't see such a thing anywhere in my install
[13:27:38] <IchGuckLive> then that shoudt never happen
[13:27:48] <IchGuckLive> ( endZ: 0.0800, pierceHeight: 0.0800)(nuke!)
[13:27:50] <IchGuckLive> Z0.0800
[13:29:45] <ssi> JT-Shop: oh I found it I think
[13:30:45] <IchGuckLive> ok im off ssi you will get it to work ,you will
[13:30:49] <ssi> hm so I wonder how OnPenDown() actually works
[13:31:00] <ssi> Z axis moves downwards. Can be used to turn a plasma/laser on
[13:31:33] <IchGuckLive> you can do your hole Z setup there
[13:31:59] <IchGuckLive> G0 Z0.5
[13:32:06] <IchGuckLive> o<touchoff> call [0.080] [0.1] [0.02] (Touchoff and start cutting)
[13:32:16] <IchGuckLive> G0 Z 0.08
[13:32:21] <IchGuckLive> M3
[13:32:32] <IchGuckLive> G4P2
[13:32:48] <IchGuckLive> or insted M66 L4 Q5
[13:33:16] <IchGuckLive> and then start thc at M160 or different
[13:33:43] <IchGuckLive> the full range
[13:33:49] <IchGuckLive> ok im off BYE
[13:41:19] <JT-Shop> ssi, post nonmotalnumber safeZ in the rapid section then set rapid in the machine option
[13:43:27] <ssi> yeah I was just wraping my head around the modality
[13:43:34] <ssi> I think I have something that works now
[13:43:58] <JT-Shop> what did you come up with?
[13:44:35] <ssi> function OnRapid()
[13:44:36] <ssi> if((endZ+toolOffset) == pierceHeight) then
[13:44:36] <ssi> post.Text("(nuke!)")
[13:44:36] <ssi> post.Eol()
[13:44:36] <ssi> else
[13:44:38] <ssi> post.ModalText ("G0")
[13:44:40] <ssi> post.ModalNumber (" X", endX * scale, "0.0000")
[13:44:43] <ssi> post.ModalNumber (" Y", endY * scale, "0.0000")
[13:44:45] <ssi> post.NonModalNumber (" Z", (endZ + toolOffset) * scale, "0.0000")
[13:44:48] <ssi> post.Eol()
[13:44:50] <ssi> end
[13:45:13] <ssi> the problem is if Z is a ModalNumber, because touchoff is the only thing that moves Z around, sheetcam treats it like it's just staying at the same Z all the time
[13:45:19] <ssi> so it takes it upon itself to deduplicate
[13:45:44] <ssi> so now my code looks like this:
[13:45:44] <ssi> G0 Z0.5000 X3.1960 Y5.8140 Z0.5000
[13:45:44] <ssi> (nuke!)
[13:45:44] <ssi> o<touchoff> call [0.080] [0.1] [0.02] (Touchoff and start cutting)
[13:46:00] <ssi> I get some duplication of Z words, but I don't care
[13:47:02] <cabbage_breath> how easy is it to use one linuxcnc install to control multiple tools
[13:48:00] <cabbage_breath> ie a reprap a laser cutter a plasma table
[13:48:20] <ssi> cabbage_breath: software wise it's easy
[13:48:26] <ssi> cabbage_breath: hardware wise maybe harder
[13:48:32] <ssi> cause you're gonna have lots of specific wiring
[13:48:48] <cabbage_breath> multiple i/o cards?
[13:48:54] <ssi> you could
[13:49:10] <ssi> personally I prefer a pc per machine
[13:49:12] <cabbage_breath> but could they run simultaneously
[13:49:13] <ssi> but it can be done
[13:49:19] <ssi> hm... doubt it
[13:50:09] <cabbage_breath> does linuxcnc install on top of the os or is it it's own os (noob question)
[13:50:18] <pcw_home> Hmm machinekit has some or is planning some multiple hal instance support I think
[13:50:22] <ssi> it installs on top of linux
[13:50:33] <cabbage_breath> ok thought so
[13:51:04] <cabbage_breath> kerf compensation. easy to do in linuxcnc?
[13:52:25] <ssi> probably easier to do in cad
[13:52:27] <ssi> er, cam
[13:52:30] <ssi> sheetcam does it
[13:52:58] <ssi> but if you must, you can model the jet as a tool with a diameter and use cutter radius path compensation
[13:53:47] <jdh> what's a typical kerf size for these?
[13:54:04] <ssi> plasma runs around 1/16
[13:54:09] <ssi> dunno about laser
[13:54:41] <cabbage_breath> relatively smaller I would assume
[13:54:56] <ssi> yeah I'm sure it's smaller
[13:55:02] <ssi> but I can't put a number on it
[13:55:20] <cabbage_breath> so cutter radius path compensation offsets the path outwardly for edges and inwardly for holes?
[13:55:42] <JT-Shop> ssi nice
[13:56:27] <cabbage_breath> 0.288mm is a number I found from lasersaur
[13:56:33] <ssi> JT-Shop: trying to figure out how to fix the feedrate now
[13:58:42] * JT-Shop runs to town to post some packages
[13:59:01] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: LinuxCNC ISO comes preinstalled with ubuntu (linux), but can also run live (no install) if you just want to look at it.
[14:00:01] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: make sense?
[14:00:01] <cabbage_breath> Jymmm: oh, i didn't know that. where do I find it? Im on 12.04
[14:00:13] <Jymmm> linuxcnc.org
[14:00:31] <cabbage_breath> ardy ardy
[14:00:37] <Jymmm> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[14:01:29] <cabbage_breath> yeah I'm there. so what did you mean when you said the iso comes "preinstalled"
[14:01:30] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: The ISO file is a LiveCD, once booted you can have the option to install if you like.
[14:02:00] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: The ISO is an out-of-the-box solution. LCNC and OS combined.
[14:02:24] <ssi> god sheetcam is full of stupid bugs
[14:02:29] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: you don't need to install ubuntu seperatly.
[14:02:40] <cabbage_breath> understood thanks
[14:03:13] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: Yeah, the reason is for the real time kernel that is needed.
[14:03:44] <cabbage_breath> one does not simply install a new kernel on a kernel?
[14:03:46] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: So the ISO is LinuxCNC+RT_Kernel+Ubuntu
[14:04:32] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: Well, if you want the PITA factor, sure you could do individually
[14:04:51] <cabbage_breath> I am familiar with that factor and I have no obligation to include it
[14:05:13] <Jymmm> KISS =)
[14:05:48] <ssi> yeah I don't recommend you jump in by trying to figure out how to roll an RT kernel
[14:05:56] <Jymmm> cabbage_breath: But the ISO is also a LiveCD if you just want to take a look without the RT aspects (simulated).
[14:06:05] <ssi> honestly most folks are happiest when they find a spare pc lying around and dedicate it to a machine
[14:06:53] <cabbage_breath> ssi: I have one sitting here but i needs a hdd.
[14:07:09] <cabbage_breath> how much disk space is needed
[14:07:13] <cabbage_breath> nvm i'll google it
[14:07:19] <ssi> not much
[14:07:28] <ssi> again, run it on the livecd, then none is needed :)
[14:09:40] <_methods> keep an old pc out of the landfill hehe
[14:09:42] <_methods> best way
[14:11:20] <cabbage_breath> _methods: i literally have one that i found in a dump
[14:11:26] <_methods> that works
[14:11:40] <ssi> I tend to buy off lease optiplexes from tigerdirect
[14:11:44] <ssi> tehy're like $140 and they work well
[14:13:15] <cabbage_breath> ssi: so remind me from yesterday (first time on irc and didn't know history deletes permanently), if you would, what hardware sits between steppers and linuxcnc pc
[14:13:36] <jdh> any number of things
[14:13:52] <cabbage_breath> wrenches, hammers...
[14:14:52] <ssi> well you absolutely need a stepper driver
[14:14:54] <cabbage_breath> ssi: on your plasma table
[14:15:03] <ssi> on mine, it goes like this:
[14:15:05] <jdh> and somethign to beat the driver
[14:15:06] <cabbage_breath> right, to source the current
[14:15:16] <ssi> kernel -> mesa 5i25 -> gecko g540 -> stepper
[14:15:27] <ssi> mesa is step generation, g540 is stepper driver
[14:15:49] <cabbage_breath> g540 could potentially do step generation but slower?
[14:15:59] <ssi> no, software can do step generation but slower
[14:16:02] <ssi> g540 is just a driver
[14:16:15] <cabbage_breath> ok. but don't they enable microstepping?
[14:16:28] <ssi> yes, but that just means they ACCEPT more pulses
[14:16:46] <ssi> which actually means you need to generate pulses faster :)
[14:17:08] <cabbage_breath> ah ok
[14:17:44] <cabbage_breath> CAM generates G-code, kernel interprets it and then what?
[14:19:03] <ssi> linuxcnc interprets it
[14:19:50] <ssi> some magic happens involving a trajectory planner and motion subsystem and nml whatever it does and eventually it gets turned into position commands
[14:20:14] <ssi> position commands for each joint in realtime on a typically 1ms loop
[14:20:40] <cabbage_breath> technical definition of joint? is that like a node?
[14:20:54] <ssi> a joint is something that moves
[14:21:07] <ssi> for trivial kinematics, a joint is an axis
[14:21:14] <cabbage_breath> kk
[14:21:53] <ssi> then something is responsible for turning those position commands into motion
[14:21:57] <ssi> and thats where you come in
[14:21:58] <cabbage_breath> these position commands are the output of linuxcnc?
[14:22:06] <ssi> well they're the output of the motion planner
[14:22:23] <ssi> they end up as pins on the motion component in hal
[14:22:45] <ssi> you hook them up to something that knows how to turn them into motion
[14:22:46] <cabbage_breath> is this a linuxcnc specific version of hal?
[14:22:57] <ssi> hal is a linuxcnc subsystem
[14:23:08] * jdh points to teh LinuxCNC docs
[14:23:26] <ssi> lul
[14:24:09] <cabbage_breath> yeah ard but sometimes ppl like explaining. is there a page that shows this system ecology?
[14:24:25] <ssi> maybe! :P
[14:24:39] <cabbage_breath> i'
[14:24:47] <cabbage_breath> i'll go lock myself in the monastary
[14:27:11] <ssi> heh
[14:27:17] <ssi> you can keep asking questions, I don't mind
[14:27:24] <ssi> if I get busy and don't respond, I apologize :)
[14:27:47] <jdh> explaining is fine, a perusal through the docs might make for more productive questsions though.
[14:28:43] <ssi> so sheetcam seems to keep everything in metric units internally
[14:28:49] <ssi> and then scales in post
[14:29:00] <ssi> which is fine for single dimension values
[14:29:05] <ssi> but feedrates are in two dimensions
[14:29:21] <ssi> and it seems to turn mm/min into ipm
[14:29:28] <ssi> but I believe F words are ips aren't they?
[14:29:51] <ssi> hm maybe it is ipm
[14:29:52] <ssi> ok
[14:40:37] <ssi> blast!
[14:40:43] <ssi> I'm still losing motion on Z somewhere
[14:42:00] <Jymmm> ssi: check your spam folder
[14:45:25] <Jymmm> ssi: Ah, I found your lost motion... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2itwFJCgFQ
[15:04:34] <JT-Shop> ssi, F is user units per minute http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/other-code.html#sec:F-feed-rate
[15:04:58] <ssi> yeah
[15:05:01] <JT-Shop> losing motion or steps?
[15:05:10] <ssi> I'm really not sure
[15:06:00] <JT-Shop> look at the stepgen counts before and after
[15:06:19] <ssi> what's that gonna tell me?
[15:07:35] <JT-Shop> if the counts are the same then the stepper physically lost steps
[15:07:51] <JT-Shop> what voltage is your power supply?
[15:07:59] <ssi> 48V
[15:08:22] <JT-Shop> you might cut acc down to 30 or so
[15:08:29] <JT-Shop> I'm running 68v
[15:08:36] <JT-Shop> at 50 on acc
[15:08:58] * JT-Shop feels like not working any more today
[15:09:39] <ssi> I need to draw something that will make a lot of pierces without a lot of area
[15:09:46] <ssi> like a grid of small circles
[15:19:38] <mozmck> can't run the G251 drives at 68v :)
[15:20:37] <ssi> no, no you can't
[15:20:44] <JT-Shop> nope
[15:20:56] <JT-Shop> well you can for a moment
[15:21:14] <JT-Shop> and I wasn't suggesting that
[15:21:32] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Are you considering napping as work?
[15:23:54] <JT-Shop> that is part of lunch
[15:24:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: How many "lunches do you have a day? lol
[15:34:10] <ssi> JT-Shop: i turned the accel down to 30, and I'm doing a torture test of a grid of .20" holes on .25" centers
[15:34:16] <ssi> 5x5, 25 holes
[15:34:22] <ssi> seems to be doing ok
[15:34:32] <ssi> not cutting pretty, but not losing steps
[15:35:05] <Jymmm> ssi: what voltage are you running your steppers at?
[15:35:18] <ssi> 48v
[15:35:23] <Jymmm> amps?
[15:35:26] <ssi> 3
[15:35:33] <Jymmm> driver?
[15:35:36] <ssi> g540
[15:35:44] <Jymmm> nema23?
[15:36:18] <ssi> yep
[15:36:22] <ssi> inductance mached pretty well
[15:36:38] <Jymmm> micromill?
[15:36:45] <ssi> no, the plasma
[15:37:04] <Jymmm> belts or leadsrews?
[15:37:10] <ssi> the axis in question is leadscrew
[15:37:11] <ssi> the Z
[15:37:27] <ssi> the long axes haul ass
[15:37:37] <Jymmm> losing steps in one direction only?
[15:38:22] <ssi> honestly I don't know where it's losing steps
[15:38:37] <ssi> didn't seem to do it that time, but it seemed like it was happening somewhere in the thc
[15:38:38] <Jymmm> then how do you know it's losing any at all?
[15:38:46] <ssi> because it wouldn't go all the way back to home
[15:38:55] <ssi> and eventually it wouldn't be able to retract far enough to clear the work
[15:39:24] <Jymmm> dry run (no plasma), can you hear it stall?
[15:40:02] <ssi> the only time I heard it stall was when I filled it up with pauses and caught it during a thc offset subtraction
[15:40:09] <ssi> cause the code was written to take the offset out in one servo cycle
[15:40:13] <ssi> and it was commanding infinite accel
[15:40:25] <ssi> and I guess the combo of that plus having my accel limits too high was a big problem
[15:40:45] <Jymmm> whats total z travel?
[15:40:49] <ssi> 3.5"
[15:41:04] <ssi> but the way the torch is mounted now, it probably only uses half that
[15:41:11] <_methods> can't you just write a little program withsome progressive z moves
[15:41:13] <Jymmm> Ok, can you command it to move to 3 then back to 0 ?
[15:41:16] <_methods> then see where it's mlosing
[15:42:21] <Jymmm> ssi: make that 0.25 to 3.25 and back to 0.25
[15:42:55] <ssi> can't quite hit 3.25, torch mount hits the slats
[15:43:00] <ssi> but yeah it's very slow now
[15:43:04] <ssi> 120ipm
[15:43:13] <ssi> and 30ips/s
[15:43:19] <Jymmm> wth?!
[15:43:26] <Jymmm> 120?!
[15:43:27] <ssi> I turned it down in ini
[15:43:37] <Jymmm> what's it now?
[15:43:45] <ssi> 2ips / 120ipm
[15:43:57] <Jymmm> Drop it to 80IPM and try again
[15:44:14] <ssi> it's not losing anything where it is now
[15:44:24] <Jymmm> what was it/
[15:44:25] <Jymmm> ?
[15:44:34] <ssi> 2ips, 50ips/s
[15:44:45] <Jymmm> ?
[15:44:51] <Jymmm> just gimme IPM tyvm
[15:45:01] <ssi> same velocity higher accel
[15:45:13] <Jymmm> ah
[15:45:30] <ssi> see thing is, the thc component I think goes outside the axis limits
[15:45:36] <ssi> I think the stepgen limits become the limiting factor there
[15:45:51] <ssi> and the stepgen accel limits were at 100 earlier
[15:47:01] <mozmck> sounds like it was losing steps only when going up, which is typical.
[15:47:34] <ssi> well I'm pretty sure what was happening earlier was when the torch would shut off, the Z would jog up, and the thc comp would unload all its offset at once
[15:47:48] <ssi> so it was going around the axis and asking the stepgen to move like .250 all in one step
[15:47:58] <ssi> all in one servo period rather
[15:47:59] <mozmck> making sure everything is oiled well can help.
[15:48:09] <ssi> the motion is plenty free
[15:48:10] <mozmck> I see, can't quite do that!
[15:48:16] <ssi> this machine is 100% profile rail
[15:48:44] <mozmck> like thk or hiwin?
[15:48:52] <ssi> thk
[15:49:14] <mozmck> we still lube that - especially after a lot of use.
[15:49:25] <ssi> it hasn't seen that much use, and i had it apart a week ago
[15:49:36] <mozmck> ok
[15:50:06] <ssi> I just need to come up with something to cut to test it more
[15:50:16] <ssi> it wasn't cutting circles remarkably well either
[15:50:39] <ssi> I have always had a hard time figuring out what to run as speeds
[15:50:43] <ssi> the book speeds always seem way fast to me
[15:50:59] <mozmck> nah, they give the best cuts.
[15:51:06] <ssi> thats what everyone says
[15:51:16] <mozmck> we run it fast.
[15:51:20] <ssi> but that doesn't do me much good if the machine can't draw a circle at that speed :/
[15:51:57] <mozmck> no, if the machine can't do it, you have to slow down. you may have to change the height and current as well for a better cut.
[15:53:08] <mozmck> higher accel helps for corners, circles. are you running linuxcnc master with the new trajectory planner?
[15:54:29] <ssi> I'm on ja4 branch of 2.6 pre
[15:54:49] <ssi> my speeds and accel are pretty good on the long axes
[15:54:53] <mozmck> I think the new traj planner may really help with plasma cutting.
[15:55:00] <ssi> 1200ipm, 100ips/s
[15:55:12] <ssi> is there something special you have to do to enable it?
[15:55:17] <ssi> or a way to check for it?
[15:55:43] <ssi> ooh I know a good test cut
[15:55:44] <mozmck> It is not in 2.6, but master and is default there.
[15:55:46] <ssi> concentric rings
[15:56:07] <ssi> yea I just dunno if whoever's maintaining ja4 merged it from master
[15:56:32] <mozmck> I don't know. I think ja4 was merged into master as well?
[15:57:35] <ssi> don't think so
[15:57:47] <ssi> oh so here's another weird thing about this machine now
[15:57:53] <ssi> my axis preview is goofy
[15:57:59] <ssi> it's stretched what looks like 2x in y
[15:58:14] <ssi> and all the individual pierces and their associated paths show up in 3d
[15:58:16] <ssi> like a waterfall
[15:58:20] <ssi> they're all at different Z heights
[15:58:28] <ssi> and it always bitches about being out of limits in Z
[16:00:17] <ssi> check this out
[16:00:17] <ssi> http://www.prototechnical.com/~imcmahon/preview.png
[16:01:05] <jthornton> that's some of the G92 magic beans
[16:01:17] <ssi> yeah I figured
[16:01:45] <ssi> I need to handwrite some plasma gcode and see if there's better ways to do it
[16:01:48] <ssi> maybe I can write a sane post
[16:02:06] <ssi> will have to in order to do a concentric rings test, cause it wont' be closed paths :)
[16:03:16] <jthornton> the G92 stuff?
[16:03:41] <ssi> naw this idea for a test I have
[16:03:50] <jthornton> ah ok
[16:04:27] <jthornton> you could use G10 L2 to set your offset
[16:06:05] <ssi> yeah... I'm gonna handwrite something and see what it previews like
[16:06:08] <ssi> come up with the best way to do it
[16:06:19] <ssi> I made a pyvcp button that does a g92 x0y0z0
[16:06:28] <ssi> that's how I pick my spot to anchor the cut
[16:06:36] <jthornton> ssi, try this in your comp correction_vel= ((requested_vel *(speed / 100)) * fperiod)/10;
[16:07:32] <ssi> you mean instead of making it a parameter?
[16:08:00] <ssi> I'm not sure I follow
[16:09:37] <jthornton> I'm not following either http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/348/
[16:13:24] <ssi> jthornton: I just saw the stuff on the list
[16:13:36] <ssi> jthornton: bear in mind I'm on ja4, so I dunno what's gotten merged out from master
[16:14:07] <jthornton> those components should be in every branch AFAIK
[16:14:15] <ssi> also, my thc.comp looks like this:
[16:14:16] <ssi> float min_velocity = requested_vel -(requested_vel*(1/velocity_tol));
[16:14:24] <ssi> which looks like the old version of the diff
[16:14:41] <jthornton> yep that should be requested_vel*(velocity_tol*0.01)
[16:14:45] <ssi> ok
[16:17:28] <ssi> jthornton: do you know if it's possible to have multiline halui commands?
[16:17:50] <ssi> I want to do this: MDI_COMMAND = G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 G92.1
[16:17:58] <ssi> but it's unhappy because G10 and G92.1 are same modal group
[16:18:15] <jthornton> do MDI_COMMAND = <mysub> call
[16:18:25] <ssi> hm yeah ok
[16:24:22] <ssi> I'm not sure I understand how to use G10
[16:25:06] <ssi> aha
[16:25:12] <ssi> L20 works better than L2 for what I want
[16:25:23] <ssi> L2 X0 Y0 clears the offsets and makes G54 == G53
[16:25:40] <ssi> L20 X0 Y0 does the math to make current machine position = 0,0 in G54
[16:30:18] <JT-Shop> sounds like you figured it out
[16:45:49] <PetefromTn_> ssi..hey man whazzup?
[16:46:02] <ssi> nm, dorkin with machines
[16:46:08] <ssi> JT-Shop: http://www.prototechnical.com/~imcmahon/preview2.png
[16:46:21] <ssi> JT-Shop: those are circles, I dunno why preview is stretching everything 2x along Y
[16:47:14] <PetefromTn_> can you post those pictures of your homemade amp from last night.
[16:47:50] <PetefromTn_> I was telling my wife about it and I wanted to show her what I was talking about..
[16:48:33] <ssi> sure, sec
[16:48:48] <Deejay> gn8
[16:49:11] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/1495198_10100298818897042_727989213_o.jpg
[16:49:16] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31.0-8/857195_10100298818941952_1146233300_o.jpg
[16:49:30] <ssi> https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/1549497_10100300064191462_1271506446_n.jpg
[16:50:56] <PetefromTn_> that is so cool. I especially like the ones in the dark with the tubes glowing. How do they glow like that?
[16:51:32] <PetefromTn_> how about that picture of the homebuilt speaker that was all burlwood etc.
[16:52:20] <ssi> they glow cause little bits of gas still in the tube ionize
[16:52:43] <ssi> http://upload.review33.com/images/201301/201301271246087579.jpg
[16:52:45] <ssi> there's one
[16:52:56] <ssi> http://upload.review33.com/images/201301/201301251137524679.jpg
[16:54:00] <cabbage_breath> speaking of ionization... when plasma cutters activate what exactly happens? My understanding is that compressed air passes through an arc which ionizes it and turns it into a ....plasma...? and this plasma vaporizes whatever is in front of it? I base this upon seeing pictures of plasma torches not actually reading anything...
[16:54:34] <JT-Shop> ssi, might be ja4
[16:54:35] <PetefromTn_> what are those components underneath in that photo. On yours do you have two of those amp setups?
[16:55:32] <zeeshan|2> fucking watering the lawn sucks
[16:55:34] <zeeshan|2> !
[16:56:44] <ssi> PetefromTn_: which photo
[16:56:49] <ssi> PetefromTn_: the burl ones aren't mine
[16:57:08] <ssi> JT-Shop: the rings program is actually cutting very well
[16:57:13] <ssi> very nice looking circles
[16:57:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know that I mean the one with the burlwood speakers pair..
[16:58:52] <zeeshan|2> man you two are still speaking about audio systems
[16:58:53] <zeeshan|2> !
[16:58:56] <zeeshan|2> :)
[16:59:18] <ssi> PetefromTn_: yeah those aren't mine, so I can't tell you what that dude has on his shelf :P
[17:00:47] <PetefromTn_> I thought you might now it sounds like you are pretty into this stuff.
[17:01:03] <PetefromTn_> Ya got me thinking here man. I have been reading about this stuff all morning. fascinating...
[17:02:48] <ssi> heeh
[17:03:21] <PetefromTn_> http://www.coincidentspeaker.com/images/shows/RMAF%20-%202013/RMAF-Coincident-Speaker-Adiophile-2.jpg
[17:03:26] <PetefromTn_> those look nice.
[17:04:42] <Jymmm> look like a waste of money to me =)
[17:05:56] <PetefromTn_> ya mean kinda like building your own CNC benchtop machines LOL??
[17:06:17] <Jymmm> No, becasue tools will always make you money.
[17:06:48] <LeelooMinai> Or save money, if you are just a hobbyist:)
[17:09:10] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: Just don't let audiphile articles to turn your brain into jelly - there's a lot of nonsense in them in general.
[17:11:09] * JT-Shop notes that a '65 dozer is like an old boat... you spend more time working on it than playing with it
[17:12:04] <LeelooMinai> Sometimes it's the journey that is most fun
[17:13:17] <PetefromTn_> To be honest as SSI knows from our conversation last night I spent a large part of my youth working for a high end stereo store and installing and servicing this kind of stuff. All of it was WAY out of my price range and I figured that basically I would NEVER be able to afford it.
[17:14:13] <PetefromTn_> Now that I see what he is doing with custom built tube amps and speakers suddenly it is within the realm of possibility. Much like owning a full blown CNC machining center there was a time I only dreamed about it, now it is in my garage thanks to the DIY ability of this stuff and forums like this.
[17:14:46] <PetefromTn_> SO yeah I am sure to some it is a big huge waste of money but to me it would be the fulfillment of a lifelong dream to own a sick tube amp sound room.
[17:14:51] <LeelooMinai> You could probably afford not-expensive alternatives that in practice sound almost the same... that's my guess:)
[17:15:02] <PetefromTn_> Even if it took me years to build it myself it would be worth it.
[17:15:11] <LeelooMinai> Or build them, right
[17:15:29] <PetefromTn_> I already own a quite nice system including Denon amps and quality speakers etc.
[17:15:39] <PetefromTn_> But it is not the same thing as I am sure SSI will tell you.
[17:16:22] * LeelooMinai clamps a paper bag by PetefromTn_'s ears - here, now you will not notice the difference anyways
[17:16:37] <PetefromTn_> It's the not expensive part that intrigues me the most. Apparently SSI has been able to build this stuff for not a lot of moey...
[17:16:58] <PetefromTn_> and since I have a LOT of NOT a lot of money It seems doable LOL..
[17:18:32] <LeelooMinai> Man, that was scary - had to download 6 GB of Xilinx software, to have a look at it
[17:19:16] <LeelooMinai> ANd it crashed on the first run
[17:22:35] <ssi> heh
[17:24:18] <cabbage_breath> is 30-36 ipm fast
[17:24:25] <ssi> not even a little bit
[17:24:34] <ssi> 30ipm is a half an inch a second
[17:24:50] <cabbage_breath> barf
[17:24:59] <LeelooMinai> It's marginally faster than a tired snail
[17:25:01] <cabbage_breath> so this is a POS http://everlastgenerators.com/product/plasma/powerplasma-60c-cnc
[17:25:50] <ssi> personally I wouldn't buy an off brand plasma machine
[17:25:53] <ssi> too much to go wrong
[17:26:13] <ssi> only thing worse than buying a $2000 plasma cutter is buying a $2000 plasma cutter because you're throwing away your $1200 chinese plasma cutter
[17:33:54] <kfoltman> ssi: how about 'having your house burn down due to a short circuit in a $1200 chinese plasma cutter'?
[17:34:03] <ssi> that's a fun one too
[17:34:11] <andypugh> That sounds suboptimal, certainly.
[17:34:20] <ssi> holy cow it's andy
[17:34:54] <andypugh> I have been busy with “stuff” not “bits”
[17:35:48] <andypugh> The last week I have been gunsmithing. Which is interesting as guns are basically illegal here.
[17:36:09] <ssi> so you've been scare on irc because you were in prison?
[17:36:17] <andypugh> Making a LaserTag sniper rifle for a friend. I got carried away and made a replica Lee-Enfile bolt action LaserTag riflr.
[17:36:23] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Sniper?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJ6K36Pg5_T5ew&feat=directlink
[17:36:51] <andypugh> (Using an old air-rifle stock, I didn’t make that)
[17:37:15] <ssi> that's pretty funny
[17:41:04] <andypugh> I don’t seem to have taken any with the tubes aodised black, which makes it look a lot better.
[17:53:14] <jdh> buying cheap often costs a lot more in the long run.
[17:53:24] <jdh> but, I keep doing it anyway.
[17:56:27] <jdh> andpugh: I could have an Enfield rifle shipped to my house via US postal service.
[17:59:57] <cabbage_breath> found my hdd http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UM1MC5641
[18:00:54] <cabbage_breath> 9.49 shipped
[18:02:49] <andypugh> jdh: I think I could have a Lee-Enfield delivered if I had a Gnu License.
[18:03:24] <jdh> I'm sure Stallman would be happy to give you one.
[18:04:19] <andypugh> Here we are, for sale and all legal: http://www.highwoodclassicarms.co.uk/leeenfieldrifles.htm
[18:05:06] <andypugh> I have probably shot over 1000 rounds of .303 through a Lee Enfield.
[18:05:46] <andypugh> It’s not like you can’t shoot in the UK. They just try to make sure that you don’t shoot people.
[18:08:56] <jdh> used to be a lot of Enfields for sale. Not so much anymore.
[18:13:02] <jdh> or I could just go to the store and buy an AR15 in 10 minutes. Ammo is a lot cheaper too.
[18:13:19] <andypugh> Yeah, but the LE has History.
[18:13:30] <jdh> true
[18:14:52] <andypugh> Apparently it is still in service with the Canadian Artic troops, and that’s pretty impressive for a gnu which was first made in 1895
[19:03:04] <CaptHindsight> anyone that's going to the machinekit fest/meet-up/gathering/conference/jam/rave please let us know how it went
[19:07:42] <skunkworks> dad and I are going - get to meet rob e and see jon e and john m again
[19:14:48] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: I think Tom J.P. is going
[19:19:29] <humble_sea_bass> wher is this happening
[19:19:39] <humble_sea_bass> UK?
[19:19:45] <CaptHindsight> Madison, Wi
[19:20:24] <CaptHindsight> @ Tormach
[19:20:40] <humble_sea_bass> neat.
[19:21:03] <CaptHindsight> I think they were in Chicago last night at PS1
[19:22:42] <humble_sea_bass> Cap, do you know of a decent seller of relays that will work with 3.3V logic from beagle/raspi gpio?
[19:24:59] <CaptHindsight> GPIO to some buffer/driver then relay, there are some cheap relay boards that work from 3.3 or 5V logic, one sec ...
[19:25:22] <andypugh> humble_sea_bass: Might be easier to drive transistors to drive the relay that fits the job.
[19:25:44] <LeelooMinai> humble_sea_bass: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-New-Original-Power-relay-SRD-03-VDC-SL-C-3-VDC-SL-C-3v-free/1602972585.html
[19:25:45] <CaptHindsight> I keep a bunch around for last minute situations
[19:26:39] <humble_sea_bass> andy i considered that, but i was hoping someone had some basic boards that made it all brain dead sim-ple
[19:26:49] <LeelooMinai> humble_sea_bass: Tons of those for different voltages there and on ebay
[19:27:01] <CaptHindsight> for the duinos
[19:27:40] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10X-5V-Four-4-Channel-Relay-Module-With-optocoupler-For-PIC-AVR-ARM-Arduino-8051-/191178922632
[19:28:09] <LeelooMinai> humble_sea_bass: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Single-3V-Relay-Isolation-Drive-Control-Module-High-Level-Driver-Board/1905967919.html
[19:28:10] <CaptHindsight> they have them cheap with screw terminals as well
[19:28:19] <LeelooMinai> humble_sea_bass: The 5V ones are more common
[19:28:41] <LeelooMinai> humble_sea_bass: But as you can see, getting 3V on is not really a problem too
[19:28:44] <CaptHindsight> 3.4V GPIO ----> optos (on board) to relay
[19:29:46] <andypugh> Not directly relevant, but can I mention the GTL chips? Magic bidirectional level shifters: http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0f74/0900766b80f74f37.pdf
[19:29:52] <humble_sea_bass> optos, didn't think of that
[19:29:58] <humble_sea_bass> isolate that shit
[19:30:04] <andypugh> From 4 to at least 20 channels.
[19:30:16] <CaptHindsight> www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=5V+Relay+Module+With+Optocoupler+For+Arduino&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X8+channel+Relay+Module+With+Optocoupler+For+Arduino&_nkw=8+channel+Relay+Module+With+Optocoupler+For+Arduino&_sacat=0
[19:30:22] <CaptHindsight> $7
[19:30:33] <humble_sea_bass> too rich for my blood
[19:30:59] <LeelooMinai> Those modules are as cheap as they can get...
[19:31:04] <humble_sea_bass> that's an elegant board
[19:31:06] <LeelooMinai> Most of them are multiple channels
[19:31:48] <LeelooMinai> If they were ny cheaper, they would have to include them inside corn flake boxes
[19:32:08] <CaptHindsight> probably taste better too
[19:32:36] <humble_sea_bass> rated to 10 AMPS, this is cherry
[19:32:57] <CaptHindsight> there are bulk deals as well
[19:33:16] <andypugh> Free == cheaper than a beer :-)
[19:34:09] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: so your electric dog polisher is no more just a dream?
[19:34:41] <humble_sea_bass> it scrubs and polishes
[19:36:08] <CaptHindsight> I spent the day battling with Ubuntu precise, 3.4.55 rtai and a multi-touch screen
[19:36:36] <humble_sea_bass> sounds like a blast. what brand of screen
[19:36:40] <CaptHindsight> it seg faulted twice on me right when I was saving Linuxcnc configs
[19:36:50] <humble_sea_bass> i've been wanting one, but they are still kind of silly expensive
[19:36:52] <CaptHindsight> ACER ~22"
[19:36:59] <CaptHindsight> $200
[19:38:29] <CaptHindsight> no problems when the PC and stepper drives we strewn out over a bench with rag-tag wiring
[19:39:09] <CaptHindsight> jam it all into an enclosure and now Ubuntu complains about Plymouth and then seg faults
[19:40:07] <CaptHindsight> "Plymouth is the application which provides the graphical "splash" screen when booting and shutting down an Ubuntu system. "
[19:40:19] <CaptHindsight> wtf, how did Ubuntu break that?
[19:52:35] <CaptHindsight> oh and EFI can't handle a multitouch screen, mouse and keyboard all at the same time
[19:57:19] <CaptHindsight> than you Intel for developing x86 firmware that ends up being and OS and then not having an easy driver update process and for the PS not being Linux or open source <end rant>
[19:59:18] <CaptHindsight> at least the new realtime kernel support for Linuxcnc has preempt-rt running in the 15-25uS tange
[20:01:25] <humble_sea_bass> well, that all sounds ten kinds of tasteless. gg intel
[20:14:31] <XXCoder2> hey all
[20:17:52] <cabbage_breath> booting from livecd
[20:21:10] <cabbage_breath> this is exciting
[20:21:35] <cabbage_breath> ooh it's got a dictionary
[20:52:33] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Power_Products_(Electrical)/DC_Power_Supplies/5VDC,_12VDC,_15VDC,_24VDC_Encapsulated
[20:52:39] <humble_sea_bass> where have you been all my life
[23:35:16] <XXCoder1> silly question
[23:35:28] <XXCoder1> wonder if can wire a stepper up as drill lol
[23:35:45] <XXCoder1> probably useless and/or bad idea