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[00:56:20] <XXCoder2> LOL
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10500590_639226809495994_5763036536579688474_n.jpg
[01:45:47] <archivist> XXCoder2, you can always zero calipers (never had any digital ones you cant)
[02:25:29] <Deejay> moin
[08:25:53] <jdh> aluminum alloy 6063 and 6061 the unique and dedicated mold extrusion profiles. let counterfeiters dwarfs
[08:29:30] <SpeedEvil> 'you can't buy parts that fit it if stuff breaks'
[08:39:40] <CaptHindsight> chinglish translation of the Rack Material
http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc3040-series/cnc-3040z-d52-new-version-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html
[08:41:32] <jdh> Once again, I'm almost ready to buy the carving-cnc 6040
[08:42:23] <jdh> I'm trying to convince myself it is better to get theirs for $1931 shipped vs. $1595 from random ebay seller
[08:47:25] <CaptHindsight> I see nuts on the ends of one ballscrew for setting the bearing preload vs free floating
[08:50:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.carving-cnc.com/media/simples/3040Z+D52_4.jpg they like to layer thin stock vs use thicker stock
[08:51:02] <jdh> that's the smaller one though
[08:51:59] <jdh> The cheaper ebay ones seem to have 65mm 800w spindles vs. 80mm 1.5kw
[08:52:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.carving-cnc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/0/6040z_s80_3_2.jpg
[08:53:18] <jdh> ?
[08:53:29] <CaptHindsight> at least they try to reinforce the gantry with some extra angle in the corners
[08:55:08] <CaptHindsight> all the ones I've tried I can bend and twist the gantry with my arms quite a bit
[09:00:17] <jdh> and these?
[09:00:54] <CaptHindsight> they look very similar
[09:01:18] <CaptHindsight> but they do have ballscrew nuts, many I've seen don't have them
[09:03:25] <jdh> I mainly just want to cut HDPE and plexiglas
[09:03:48] <jdh> but, light aluminum cutting would be nice.
[09:15:08] <CaptHindsight> back in the 1950's there was a TV manufacturer that would walk up to the designers prototype and snip parts out of the set until it stopped working in order to cut the cost of manufacturing. If he didn't notice a change after snipping it got left out.
[09:15:42] <CaptHindsight> that's how I see a lot of these router designs being done
[09:17:22] <jdh> yeah, no money in design, just in cutting mfg costs
[09:18:03] <CaptHindsight> but they are >90% there
[09:21:26] <CaptHindsight> I was only using them for non-contact applications.
[09:22:50] <CaptHindsight> the worst ones didn't capture the ballscrews on the end, and they didn't even shim them into place so they had 1-2mm of lash
[09:27:41] <JT-Shop> me needs a 3' tube behind the headstock of the CHNC somehow
[09:36:25] <jdh> just in general, or to hold things in place?
[09:36:32] <archivist> only 3? as a bar is 10
[09:37:03] <jdh> I though a bar was 14.5
[09:37:33] <JT-Shop> I have to turn a 5' long piece of 5/8" delrin
[09:37:44] <JT-Shop> into little bitty parts
[09:38:09] <jdh> we have one set up with V rollers
[09:39:02] <jdh> we cut/face a lot of 160" tubes. The ones the operators use have guards that cover the tube
[09:39:03] <archivist> I have most of a bar feed for my sliding head lathe but you plastic mat not fit it
[09:40:39] <jdh> you can do some serious damage if the tube whips
[09:41:18] <archivist> the idea is the tube stops the bar inside from whipping
[09:41:40] <jdh> yeah. pain in the ass to get a 160" tube into a tube though
[09:43:55] <archivist> the bar feed tube I have has a slot down its length
[09:44:26] <JT-Shop> hmm I found a piece of 1" pvc that might work
[09:44:55] <jdh> we have another one with no tailstock that feeds into a 3" PVC pipe for parting 48" sections for disposal
[09:45:43] <archivist> JT-Shop, or half it and do two runs
[09:47:52] <JT-Shop> I'd have to cut it into 3 pcs to keep it inside the headstock
[09:48:14] <JT-Shop> I think this will work and keep it from whipping inside the head stock to
[10:41:28] <ssi> LeelooMinai: sorry I got distracted, you get your homing working?
[10:41:30] <ssi> agh
[10:41:32] <ssi> sry mischan
[10:42:26] <ssi> JT-Shop: yea just support some pvc on stands and that should keep it from whipping too bad
[10:43:59] <JT-Shop> ssi, I rigged up a clamp on the sheet metal cover... just about to try it
[10:44:27] <ssi> I need to get my damn hnc fixed :'(
[10:44:33] <ssi> right after I get my damn plasma table running
[10:47:02] <jdh> you could park a sailboat outside and try living in it there for a year.
[10:47:55] <ssi> I could
[10:48:07] <ssi> I just need to get the hell out of this city
[10:52:11] <JT-Shop> yep it worked fine
[11:12:38] <ssi> I have to go pick up a package from the post office... I imagine it's mesa hardware
[11:42:25] <Tecan> http://centosn00b.blogspot.ca/2012/06/light-alternative-to-compiz-grid-effect.html
[11:49:06] <MrHindsight> Tecan: are you uding Linuxcnc on Centos?
[11:49:39] <MrHindsight> uding/using
[11:50:35] <Tecan> Linux
[11:50:38] <Tecan> gnome
[11:50:41] <Tecan> 2
[11:50:50] <Tecan> mate more specifically
[11:58:16] <skroon> hi
[11:58:27] <skroon> any cambam user in here?
[12:08:35] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:09:26] <IchGuckLive> hi skroon
[12:17:53] <Deejay> re
[12:23:34] <IchGuckLive> ;.)
[12:24:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pcduino.com/pcduino-v3/ for got about this, priced too high but an A20 with duino pinouts
[12:26:22] <CaptHindsight> banana pi is only $30, this is $76.95
[12:26:26] <IchGuckLive> yes A20 is great got an spi also
[12:31:47] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: hmm
[12:32:07] <Loetmichel> i've looked: in germany the banana pi is 60-70 eur
[12:32:18] <jdh> who has teh 6040? 800w or 1.5kw spindle?
[12:32:29] <Loetmichel> jdh: mine has 800W
[12:33:02] <jdh> is 800 sufficient? Would 1.5kw be worth US$200 more?
[12:33:12] <jdh> (re: ebay 800w vs. carving-cnc 1.5kw)
[12:33:42] <IchGuckLive> i got both the 800 and the 1,5kw for the 6040 the 800w is good
[12:36:09] <IchGuckLive> back son need to restart
[12:53:22] <IchGuckLive> laptop is bad zeeshan-laptop
[12:53:30] <zeeshan-laptop> ??
[12:53:38] <IchGuckLive> O.o
[12:59:48] <Loetmichel> jdh: friend has a 2.2kW version on his gantry
[13:00:15] <Loetmichel> beside the higher weight and an ER20 instad of ER11 i see no difference
[13:00:37] <Loetmichel> but my biggest aluminium Mill bit is a 6mm dia
[13:00:58] <Loetmichel> for that the 800W spindle is perfectly sufficient
[13:01:10] <jdh> 2.5kw is more than I would want to power
[13:01:15] <jdh> but, 1.5kw sounds good.
[13:01:29] <Loetmichel> i dont see any advantage for small mill bits
[13:01:34] <Loetmichel> up to 6mm
[13:01:41] <Loetmichel> the 800W is good there
[13:01:44] <jdh> that would be my max also
[13:01:51] <IchGuckLive> in the universety i got a 2,2 on a haas vf3 to get better speed for Alu cutting as well
[13:02:04] <jdh> the 1.5kw does 24krpm
[13:02:16] <Loetmichel> the 800W does also
[13:04:19] <ssi> blah
[13:14:29] <zeeshan-laptop> power overkill!
[13:14:41] <zeeshan-laptop> im machining some magnesium tomorrow
[13:14:45] <zeeshan-laptop> should be "fun"
[13:14:51] <zeeshan-laptop> hopefully dont catch myself on fire
[13:18:09] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: get a bucket of fine sand handy.
[13:18:13] <Loetmichel> just in case ;-)
[13:18:19] <jdh> Metal-X
[13:18:25] <Loetmichel> or two buckets
[13:18:53] <jdh> water can be impressive on metal fires
[13:18:54] <zeeshan-laptop> yea we got metalx here
[13:19:04] <Loetmichel> what is metal-x?
[13:20:09] <zeeshan-laptop> it X;s metal fire
[13:20:23] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[13:20:27] <pcw_home> even sand has a exothermic reaction with magnesium
[13:20:48] <Loetmichel> does it?
[13:20:57] <pcw_home> yep
[13:21:37] <Loetmichel> so use talcum poweder
[13:21:45] <Loetmichel> that should do the trick
[13:21:47] <zeeshan-laptop> it tries to steal oxygen
[13:21:50] <zeeshan-laptop> from whatever it can!
[13:21:57] <Loetmichel> (being magnesium oxide already)
[13:22:37] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: i know. i just didnt knor that it has greater affiniyt to O2 than silicium
[13:23:10] * zeeshan-laptop eats some magnesium
[13:23:13] <zeeshan-laptop> mmm tastes good
[13:24:12] <LeelooMinai> Any tips on x-y top design for a cnc? Yesterday I think Connor showed me his solution that was mdf with aluminum t-slots embedded. any commonts on this or other solutions?
[13:24:51] <LeelooMinai> By "top" I mean the table
[13:25:12] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Spoil Board
[13:25:15] <LeelooMinai> I already have aluminum plate there
[13:25:31] <Jymmm> spoiler board with t slots
[13:25:37] <zeeshan-laptop> wood shouldnt belong on your cnc LeelooMinai
[13:25:38] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[13:25:41] <LeelooMinai> Connor: O, hey - I am doing reasearch on your solution
[13:25:51] * Jymmm smacks zeeshan-laptop with a 2x4
[13:25:55] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[13:26:22] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan-laptop: Yes, well, but other solutions seem to be crazy-expensive... I will not buy some mic6 plate for $800:)
[13:27:09] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Isn't spolboard, well, the mdf board?
[13:27:35] <LeelooMinai> Or it goes on top of that?
[13:27:54] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai:
http://www.rockler.com/woodworking/T-Slot-Tracks
[13:27:57] <Connor> Can be both.
[13:28:25] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Yes, I found something similar in my local store:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=61646&cat=3,43576,61995,61646
[13:28:36] <zeeshan-laptop> by x-y top you mean a table
[13:28:37] <zeeshan-laptop> right?
[13:28:43] <LeelooMinai> Yes, table
[13:28:59] <zeeshan-laptop> if you get cold rolled steel for exaple
[13:29:09] <LeelooMinai> I have already micro-table, but it's supposed only to be use to mount the "real" table
[13:29:09] <zeeshan-laptop> the flatness is 0.003" over 12 feet
[13:29:11] <zeeshan-laptop> i believe
[13:29:28] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan-laptop: Ok, but how do I get t-slots on that then...
[13:29:28] <zeeshan-laptop> or you can take some 6061 flat plate
[13:29:33] <zeeshan-laptop> and mill your own t-slots
[13:29:34] <zeeshan-laptop> with your router
[13:29:51] <Connor> http://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302261910/?Inch=0
[13:30:00] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[13:30:03] <zeeshan-laptop> http://steelmanscuttingtools.com/products/t-slot-cutter.jpg
[13:30:04] <zeeshan-laptop> those
[13:30:18] <Jymmm> zeeshan-laptop: not in MDF
[13:30:37] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Hmm... those have different shape... I want to have t-slots usable with those machinist sets for clampimg
[13:30:53] <zeeshan-laptop> im talking about aluminum plate
[13:31:00] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: different animals
[13:31:02] <Connor> LeelooMinai: You make your own T nuts to use..
[13:31:11] <Connor> with the clamp set.
[13:31:15] <Connor> or just normal nuts.
[13:31:19] <zeeshan-laptop> fak making t nuts
[13:31:20] <Connor> if they'll fit.
[13:31:21] <zeeshan-laptop> when you can buy some!
[13:31:44] <Connor> zeeshan-laptop: Dude, Chill. :)
[13:32:01] <zeeshan-laptop> i am chill
[13:32:04] <zeeshan-laptop> and lazy
[13:32:26] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so what kind of t-slot rails I need to use those?
http://www.kbctools.com/can/Navigation/NavPDF.cfm?PDFPage=762
[13:32:37] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: The main diff I see in your local store vs the rockeler is the ability to use 1/4" hex instead of the fancy T-bolts
[13:32:44] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: that clamping kit was on sale
[13:32:48] <zeeshan-laptop> at busybee tools locally
[13:33:12] <zeeshan-laptop> those t slot nuts need slots cut with the cutter i posted
[13:33:14] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... but is it usable with those woodworking t-slot rails?
[13:33:20] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Are you going to be doing aluminum?
[13:33:33] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Yes, I plan to do light milling in alu
[13:33:33] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Honestly, Those clamp sets are really for metal Milling machines.. not router..
[13:33:41] <Connor> Your going to want lower profile clamps.
[13:33:43] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Then forget the MDF all together.
[13:33:57] <zeeshan-laptop> look at LeelooMinai's machine
[13:34:05] <zeeshan-laptop> he's built the columns out of 1 1/2 aluminum
[13:34:14] <LeelooMinai> "she", but yes:)
[13:34:17] <zeeshan-laptop> there should be no wood on his machine if he's gone over killed
[13:34:22] <zeeshan-laptop> her
[13:34:28] <LeelooMinai> And it's 1 imch plates for gantry
[13:34:35] <zeeshan-laptop> its huge!
[13:34:36] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
[13:34:40] <ssi> pcw_home: did you perchance catch any of the backscrll about how I might have murdered my 5i25?
[13:34:47] <Loetmichel> define "huge"
[13:34:57] <zeeshan-laptop> if you want, yon buy some aluminum plate
[13:35:04] <zeeshan-laptop> and we can mill some t-slots :P
[13:35:13] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... ok, so now I don't know - seems like I cannot really make this table chaeply and use those machinist clamps
[13:35:14] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Small, Medium, Large, OH MY GAWD <--- The last one =)
[13:35:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: thats relative ;-)
[13:35:41] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: what the hell, i thought you were a guy all this time
[13:35:49] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: But defined.
[13:35:50] <ssi> Loetmichel: the metal he used relative to the size of the machine, yes it's huge
[13:35:51] * zeeshan-laptop feels stupid
[13:35:52] <Loetmichel> LeelooMinai: why not?
[13:35:55] <Connor> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020317/21316/Build-It-System-Hold-Down-Clamp.aspx
[13:36:17] <zeeshan-laptop> 12.99 for a clamp
[13:36:18] <zeeshan-laptop> damn
[13:36:19] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: Well, I am not. That's me there:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/10320811674/
[13:36:25] <Connor> Those are the high end ones.
[13:36:34] <Connor> those are nice low profile for routers..
[13:36:42] <Connor> gives nice clearance.
[13:36:43] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: i saw that picture, and i thought that was your wife
[13:36:44] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[13:36:51] <zeeshan-laptop> teaches me not to assume
[13:36:54] <LeelooMinai> lol... wife
[13:37:04] <Connor> With alias of LeeLoo ??
[13:37:14] <Connor> You ever watch 5th Element. ? :)P
[13:37:39] <LeelooMinai> Man, irc is weird - people mistake you for your wige
[13:37:40] <Loetmichel> LeelooMinai: i would use a thick particle board or similar as a "sacrificial plate" and drill a grid of holes in it, put rampa nuts in there. -> perfect fit for the clamps
[13:37:43] <LeelooMinai> wife*
[13:37:56] <ssi> LeelooMinai: heheh it's irc, and we all make a bunch of silly assumptions :)
[13:37:56] <LeelooMinai> rampa nuts?
[13:38:06] <Loetmichel> just use a grid that is smaller than the slot in the clamps and you can reach any spot desired
[13:38:07] <Connor> Yea, I have slots & T-Nuts on my spoil board.
[13:38:14] <ssi> LeelooMinai: apologies for inaccurate pronouns :)
[13:38:52] <Connor> http://cdn.cshardware.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/6/36408802_l_2.jpg
[13:38:59] <Connor> T-nut. for mounting in wood.
[13:39:11] <LeelooMinai> Loetmichel: Ok, I will research that. I really like those machinist set clamps and would like to use them.
[13:39:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.werkzeug-profi-shop.at/M-Schrauben/Muttern/Rampa-Muffe-Stahl-blank/M5-x-10-Rampa-Muffe-Innensechskant-100-Stueck::3540.html
[13:39:30] <Loetmichel> @ LeelooMinai
[13:39:40] <Loetmichel> you can
[13:40:04] <Loetmichel> just omit the t-slot nut at the end and screw the bolt directly into the rampa nuts ;-)
[13:40:27] <LeelooMinai> Also, since MDF is medium density fiberboard... Is there something like high density one?
[13:40:34] <zeeshan-laptop> holy shit
[13:40:40] <zeeshan-laptop> i spilled some gatorade on this magnesium
[13:40:42] <zeeshan-laptop> its fizzing
[13:40:52] <zeeshan-laptop> that was a bad idea
[13:41:04] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Do you plan on swapping out spoiler when doing metal/wood?
[13:41:23] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: I would rather have one for both
[13:41:35] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Then forget the MDF all together
[13:41:55] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: You think it's not rigid enough for alu milling?
[13:42:30] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: MDf thru the face can even take a thread and will hold strong, but on it's edge won't evne hold a screw without splitting....
[13:42:59] <zeeshan-laptop> i hate mdf
[13:43:02] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but what would I need an edge screw on a table for?
[13:43:11] <zeeshan-laptop> i made some subwoofer boxes out of that stuff, i dunno how you guys use it!
[13:43:16] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If you start using MDF with aluminum , I think your tracks will start coming loose as you "clamp down" to hold the aluminum in lplace.
[13:43:28] <ssi> mdf is gross stuff
[13:43:31] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi yes
[13:43:41] <zeeshan-laptop> gives you cancer ;.
[13:43:43] <ssi> yes it does
[13:43:46] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Basically it would be like a gear puller on the MDF
[13:43:47] <ssi> full of urea formaldehyde
[13:43:58] <LeelooMinai> The only cheap stuff I can buy is about 1/4 hot rolled steel plate - A26 or something like this... not sure if that would make any sense
[13:44:00] <ssi> LeelooMinai: also it does NOT tolerate moisture
[13:44:11] <Connor> Jymmm: That's why the grid of holes with T-nuts works well if using MDF with alumn.
[13:44:12] <ssi> LeelooMinai: if you use any kind of coolant or lubricant when machining you will ruin the mdy
[13:44:14] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: you dont want hot rolled plate
[13:44:15] <ssi> f
[13:44:16] <ssi> it'll swell and get miserable
[13:44:24] <PetefromTn_> afternoon all..
[13:44:27] <ssi> petey
[13:44:30] <zeeshan-laptop> the tolerance on flatness is like 0.036"
[13:44:31] <LeelooMinai> I guess hot-rolled one will not be very flat, will be
[13:44:43] <PetefromTn_> hey man..Howsitgoin?
[13:44:45] <zeeshan-laptop> usually ive seen it out b 16 thou
[13:44:49] <zeeshan-laptop> *by
[13:44:53] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you're probably best off just sucking it up and getting some of that $$ cast aluminum tooling plate
[13:44:58] <Jymmm> Connor: I have a box of 100 tnuts and a 2"x2" grid on my 24"x24" MDF spoiler.
[13:45:02] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you already overbuilt the crap out of that machine, don't skimp now
[13:45:03] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi that shit is way too expensive
[13:45:04] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[13:45:06] <LeelooMinai> Unless I mill the sirface or something - if that's possible
[13:45:07] <ssi> it's expensive
[13:45:18] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: very possible, if its aluminum
[13:45:19] <Jymmm> Connor: when torqing down, you begin to compress the MDF over time.
[13:45:23] <zeeshan-laptop> you can use your rotor to face mill
[13:45:24] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you could also use regular aluminum plate and then flycut the surface with the machine
[13:45:24] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Either Extruded with slots, or a flat alumn plat milled to spec and drilled / tapped with holes.. get a local machine shop to do it if you can't
[13:45:25] <zeeshan-laptop> the table flat
[13:45:49] <ssi> PetefromTn_: it's goin... trying to get my plasma table back online
[13:46:00] <zeeshan-laptop> i told LeelooMinai that i can help him .. her
[13:46:01] <zeeshan-laptop> sldkjakdsja
[13:46:02] <PetefromTn_> get it done man....
[13:46:07] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I kilt my mesa card :/
[13:46:11] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I guess I need to buy another piggy bank and wait a bit - as always
[13:46:14] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Do you have a pic of the baed of your machine?
[13:46:16] <PetefromTn_> yeah me too LOL...
[13:46:16] <Jymmm> bed*
[13:46:26] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: hi
[13:46:28] <zeeshan-laptop> where have you been
[13:46:31] <PetefromTn_> hey man..
[13:46:48] <PetefromTn_> Been busy with stuff. making parts..family...etc.etc.
[13:46:58] <zeeshan-laptop> good to hear
[13:47:00] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: It's like that - alu, but small - just to join the rail blocks:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14362017434/
[13:47:01] <jdh> making family? cobngrats
[13:47:05] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Till then. MDF will work for playing and doing wood and plastic and light duty alumn
[13:47:10] <zeeshan-laptop> jdh hahahha.
[13:47:13] * Jymmm makes a MDf coffon for zeeshan-laptop, and tosses ssi into the MDF sawdust from it =)
[13:47:27] <zeeshan-laptop> Jymmm: youre always trying to plot my death
[13:47:30] <ssi> LeelooMinai: can you just use that as the table for now?
[13:47:32] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Why do you have a External DRO on the Z ?
[13:47:34] <zeeshan-laptop> the other day it was electical tape
[13:47:35] <zeeshan-laptop> :D!
[13:47:44] <ssi> LeelooMinai: tap some holes in it to mount a vise to
[13:47:56] <LeelooMinai> ssi: I would rather not - it has nothing to clamp materials
[13:48:20] <LeelooMinai> And if I damage it, well, I don't want to drill all those holes again...
[13:48:56] <Loetmichel> LeelooMinai: it you are determined to use wood: at least use marine grade plywood and not MDF
[13:49:26] <Loetmichel> that will hold the forces of the rampa nuts or similar AND is not shy of a dab of water from time to time
[13:49:48] <LeelooMinai> I am not determined to use mdf - just determined not to pay too much:)
[13:49:54] <Loetmichel> so no fear that your spoil board will suddenly double in size ;-)
[13:50:30] <LeelooMinai> Right, ok, I will look into those - thx - more research to do
[13:50:58] <Loetmichel> i usede a MFD spoilboard and spax for mounting the workpieces once
[13:51:11] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Is that the bed the DRO is sitting on?
[13:51:14] <PetefromTn_> been completely gutting and remaking my new RWS54 air rifle internals...
[13:51:24] <Loetmichel> but i milled only glass fibre,. carbon fibre and plywood and similar stuff
[13:51:32] <Loetmichel> no thick aluminium plates
[13:51:38] <zeeshan-laptop> pics
[13:51:39] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: yes
[13:51:39] <PetefromTn_> machined a new destroked piston and hardened latch rod, also made custom delring spring guides and tophat.
[13:51:39] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: omg you havent seen this
[13:51:39] <zeeshan-laptop> guess what i got running BEFORE JDH
[13:51:40] <ssi> LeelooMinai: that's overcomeable at least temporarily
[13:51:40] * zeeshan-laptop hides from jdh
[13:51:40] <ssi> LeelooMinai: dowel holes and tapped holes, or some small t-slots
[13:51:40] <PetefromTn_> what?
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> lathe!
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> i made a brass hammer on it the other day
[13:51:40] <PetefromTn_> aah....does it work wortha damn?
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> yes
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> im using backlash comp to get rid of the 3.5 thou backlash in both axes
[13:51:40] <PetefromTn_> whats a better image hosting site other than imagebin.
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> now it reads perfect
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: imgur.com
[13:51:40] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/j8cfYVT.jpg
[13:51:40] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If it is, you could get another piece of aluminum like that and drill/tap holes on a grid to use the camps you want. Just have alignment pins. Then you could swap/stck on top of it a MDF spoiler, again with alignment pins.
[13:51:40] * zeeshan-laptop high fives LeelooMinai on mdf comment
[13:52:06] <mozmck1> I've used MDF for spoilboard under aluminum plates plenty.
[13:52:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935
[13:52:09] <Loetmichel> you see?
[13:52:23] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Technically, you could drill/tap a grid on the existing bed, but I was suggesting a replaceable one
[13:52:24] <mozmck1> It does swell over time, but it is cheap and easy to replace when it gets too bad.
[13:52:38] <PetefromTn_> nice hammer man.
[13:52:43] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Yes, I want something on top of that
[13:52:46] <ssi> LeelooMinai: can you afford to get more material like what you've already used to make a table?
[13:52:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4921&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- example of the things i made on this machine
[13:52:56] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: weird looking but i was trying tom ess with contours and tapers
[13:53:01] <zeeshan-laptop> *mess
[13:53:15] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Just use another plat of what you already have for the bed is what I would do.
[13:53:18] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmichel: she's milling aluminum..
[13:53:19] <Jymmm> plate*
[13:53:23] <zeeshan-laptop> she'll probably be using cutting fluid in the future
[13:53:27] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Possibly - it's 1/2 inch thick 6061-T6 plate
[13:53:43] <ssi> LeelooMinai: is the machine running already? spindle and all?
[13:53:46] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: thats why i said earlier to use marine plywood at least
[13:53:53] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: on one of the machines i school
[13:53:56] <LeelooMinai> Not entirely cheap, but surely cheaper that those mic6 ones
[13:53:59] <Loetmichel> because its somehwhat waterproof
[13:54:00] <zeeshan-laptop> we have t-slots custom milled..
[13:54:07] <zeeshan-laptop> for mini toe clamps
[13:54:09] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/xiSgvqk
[13:54:12] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: is marine plywood dimentionally flat across it's surface?
[13:54:18] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: that's what I've done on my little machine
[13:54:22] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: more or less
[13:54:26] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: you made that on your lathe?
[13:54:27] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: lol
[13:54:30] <LeelooMinai> ssi: No - I am saving money for mesa kit and some mini router or spindle
[13:54:30] <Loetmichel> flatter than mdf ;-)
[13:54:31] <zeeshan-laptop> nice surface finish
[13:54:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[13:54:48] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: oh really? pics please
[13:55:07] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I would say hold off until you have spindle running... use the machine to drill dowel holes in the existing plate as well as screw holes that you'll tap by hand
[13:55:19] * Jymmm boots on the rubber boots while waiting for Loetmichel
[13:55:25] <Loetmichel> the machine in the pic was made of marine plywood
[13:55:30] <zeeshan-laptop> use your dremel to tap holes
[13:55:31] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[13:55:33] <PetefromTn_> original piston is in the background and new custom piston in front of that. Then the Compression chamber which was turned and honed and finally the custom spring with delrin guides at both ends..
[13:55:33] <ssi> LeelooMinai: then clamp the new bed onto the old bed and use the machine to accurately drill dowel holes and clearance holes for machine screws
[13:55:34] * zeeshan-laptop ducks
[13:55:40] <Loetmichel> exept the spoil bard
[13:55:43] <Loetmichel> board
[13:55:51] <ssi> LeelooMinai: the dowel holes will make sure that the bed always goes back on perfectly aligned
[13:55:52] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Yes, I probably want to be able to use cnc itself to drill in the table
[13:55:53] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: what material?
[13:56:03] <Loetmichel> which was blocks of glued down mdf
[13:56:05] <ssi> LeelooMinai: and then mount the new bed and use a flycutter in the spindle to surface the new plate
[13:56:07] <PetefromTn_> it's all O-1 tool steel.
[13:56:12] <zeeshan-laptop> nice!
[13:56:18] <ssi> LeelooMinai: secure the top plate to the bottom using counterbored socket cap screws
[13:56:34] <zeeshan-laptop> thats really nice surface finish man especially for o-1 tool steel
[13:56:39] <zeeshan-laptop> i guess your lathes arent a piece of shit after all
[13:56:40] <zeeshan-laptop> :)
[13:56:43] <zeeshan-laptop> *our
[13:56:46] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Yes, that's how I attached the current plates to blocks
[13:56:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4821 <- same machine before fitting a new sheet of spoilboard ;-)
[13:56:47] <PetefromTn_> I machined a delrin guide for the rear of the piston and the front has an O-ring seal to replace the original plastic parachute seal..
[13:56:49] <ssi> then you can treat the top plate however you want... use the machine to mill T-slots into it, or drill a pattern of dowel holes and tapped holes for fixtures
[13:57:07] <zeeshan-laptop> OR
[13:57:09] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you can even make two or more different plates that use the same mounting pattern, so you can have one for holding tooling fixtures and another with tslots
[13:57:14] <zeeshan-laptop> you can just bring me a 1/2" plate
[13:57:18] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is not too bad really. I have considered making it CNC... Would rather keep it and get another CNC lathe tho..
[13:57:19] <zeeshan-laptop> and we can make you a nice flat table
[13:57:25] <zeeshan-laptop> with t-slots!
[13:57:26] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
[13:57:38] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: That's nice, but I must make everything myself:)
[13:57:42] <zeeshan-laptop> whats the dimensions of your table btw
[13:57:51] <ssi> LeelooMinai: what are you thinking about for a spindle?
[13:58:11] <LeelooMinai> I checked travel yesterday and on X-Y it's 342x170mm
[13:58:33] <zeeshan-laptop> oh the mill can easily make a table of that dimension
[13:58:44] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Maybe mini-router for now - like those tiny bosh or makita ones. Spindles cost more and I would need vfd too
[13:58:48] <PetefromTn_> Right now the rifle with these internals has a VERY fast short firing cycle and while that is desirable it is basically too fast now. It kinda feels a tad harsh so I am making a custom transfer port to kinda choke things down to slow it a tad bit..
[13:58:57] <LeelooMinai> 270mm*
[13:59:14] <zeeshan-laptop> nice PetefromTn_
[13:59:18] * LeelooMinai disappears temorarily
[13:59:39] <PetefromTn_> Connor Make up your mind man are ya here or not LOL..
[14:00:02] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Machine locked up. had to reboot
[14:00:32] <PetefromTn_> fun!
[14:01:12] <Loetmichel> that machine doing aluminium ->
http://www.cyrom.org/MC/jumpjetkopterteile1.avi ;-)
[14:01:40] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/s8PsChP YUMMY!!
[14:01:51] <zeeshan-laptop> sexy
[14:02:06] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/Q5QLdR9.jpg
[14:02:17] <zeeshan-laptop> compare magesium sheets vs aluminum sheet on bottom
[14:02:24] <zeeshan-laptop> look at how grainy the magnesium is
[14:02:24] <zeeshan-laptop> weird
[14:02:58] <Loetmichel> how much the MG was?
[14:03:13] <zeeshan-laptop> like 700$ for that stack you see
[14:03:17] <Loetmichel> its grainiy because ists cut with a shear
[14:03:24] <Loetmichel> and that stack has which size?
[14:03:30] <zeeshan-laptop> its some experimental magnesium alloy
[14:03:33] <PetefromTn_> Damn that thing is loud..
[14:03:51] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmichel: the shear leaves a nice finish on aluminum though
[14:03:54] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
[14:04:20] <zeeshan-laptop> grains must be larger in the magnesium sheet
[14:04:35] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: no, mg is more brittle than al
[14:04:42] <Loetmichel> al "flows"
[14:04:54] <Loetmichel> mg is more like cast steel
[14:04:57] <Loetmichel> it breaks
[14:05:04] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/YJDTrzc latest one..
[14:05:08] <zeeshan-laptop> ductility really depends on the alloying Loetmichel
[14:05:23] <zeeshan-laptop> theres some grades of 51xx aluminum
[14:05:34] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: add "usually"
[14:05:39] <zeeshan-laptop> which have almost 1.5x the ducility of standard 5052
[14:06:40] * zeeshan-laptop thinks magnesium is a useless element when it comes to making car components
[14:06:44] <zeeshan-laptop> =/
[14:07:00] <PetefromTn_> sure catches fire nice tho..
[14:07:08] <zeeshan-laptop> its like carbon fiber
[14:07:11] <ssi> beechcraft made ruddervator skins out of magnesium sheet
[14:07:15] <zeeshan-laptop> its nice on paper, till you look at the big picture
[14:07:16] <ssi> and it ended up being a big problem
[14:07:23] <ssi> corrosion, very expensive to replace
[14:07:42] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi we have a lab here that is tackling the corrosion issue
[14:07:42] <PetefromTn_> nothing like good old cheapass aluminum..
[14:07:55] <Loetmichel> i like 3%mg in my std aluminium alloy ;-)
[14:07:55] <ssi> they did it because they could use thinner mg skins
[14:07:59] <zeeshan-laptop> carbon fiber is light, stronger, blah blah
[14:08:07] <zeeshan-laptop> but, what do you do with it after 10 years when your car needs to go to the garbage?
[14:08:31] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: crush it to powder :)
[14:08:42] <PetefromTn_> after 10 years the car needs to go to the garbage anyways the way we are making them currently...
[14:08:43] <zeeshan-laptop> at least with steel, mg, al you canrecycle
[14:08:47] <Loetmichel> carbon fiber will just burn off when the steel is recycled
[14:09:11] <zeeshan-laptop> burning carbon fiber is pretty toxic
[14:09:18] <Loetmichel> it isnt
[14:09:20] <zeeshan-laptop> the binder is some nasty stuff
[14:09:20] <ssi> nah, just the expoxy :)
[14:09:25] <Loetmichel> burning epoxy is
[14:09:35] <ssi> the biggest problem with CF is that it's very brittle
[14:09:35] <zeeshan-laptop> wel how doyou think carbon fiber is actually practically made
[14:09:38] <Loetmichel> ssi: hi5
[14:09:41] <ssi> :)
[14:09:46] <ssi> also very freakin expensive
[14:09:48] <zeeshan-laptop> it has a shit load of binder in it
[14:09:53] <zeeshan-laptop> epoxy
[14:10:02] <ssi> you get some strength to weight ratio out of CF vs fiberglass, but at 10x the cost
[14:10:06] <ssi> and the gain just isnt' huge
[14:10:22] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi, but fiberglass is exactly that
[14:10:26] <zeeshan-laptop> glass ;p
[14:10:30] <ssi> proper sandwich fiberglass consctruction is mind blowingly strong
[14:10:40] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: ideal cf parts are made of nnearly 90% fiber and 10% epoxy
[14:10:41] <ssi> carbon is stronger, but not enough stronger to justiy the cost
[14:10:45] <Loetmichel> not the other way round
[14:10:55] <zeeshan-laptop> loet, okay, and now lets say we have a 500lb carbon fiber unibody
[14:10:58] <Loetmichel> i was 4 years in de model plane business
[14:11:04] <Loetmichel> i know... ;-)
[14:11:08] <ssi> also CF is much harder to fabricate with by hand... it needs to be vacuumed and autoclaved to guarantee the strength
[14:11:11] <zeeshan-laptop> 50lb of that is epoxy
[14:11:16] <zeeshan-laptop> thats a lot of toxic emissions
[14:11:21] <ssi> Loetmichel: I'm in the not-so-model plane business :)
[14:11:33] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi a lot of that is automated now days
[14:11:35] <zeeshan-laptop> for mass production
[14:11:41] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: not in aviation it's not
[14:11:47] <ssi> almost nothing is automated in aviation
[14:11:49] <Loetmichel> carbon ist stronger, by far lighter and more important: less springy than GF
[14:11:53] <ssi> the volume is way too low
[14:11:55] <zeeshan-laptop> ???
[14:12:10] <zeeshan-laptop> landing gears are highly automated machining
[14:12:30] <ssi> landing gear isn't made out of carbon fiber :)
[14:12:31] <PetefromTn_> hell just belly land the pig..
[14:13:24] <Loetmichel> ssi: i know. the cf plate we were using were made from airbus leftovers
[14:13:52] <ssi> I've got a roll of about fifteen yards of CF cloth that's delta surplus
[14:13:55] <Loetmichel> (prepregs that were about to reach "best before")
[14:13:58] <ssi> I have a bunch of friends that work in delta maintenance :)
[14:14:06] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi give me some
[14:14:07] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[14:14:12] <zeeshan-laptop> i will make a hood out of it
[14:14:12] <ssi> go find your own! :D
[14:14:20] <ssi> shit's $60/yard!
[14:14:23] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[14:14:38] <Loetmichel> ssi: and the aiurbus stuff was a hell of a lot stronger than the standard stiff you can buy in the model shop ;-)
[14:14:48] <ssi> Loetmichel: yea prepreg is awesome
[14:14:54] <PetefromTn_> I am sitting here trying to draw the custom trigger insert for my rifle and its a beotch...
[14:15:05] <zeeshan-laptop> lol PetefromTn_
[14:15:12] <zeeshan-laptop> just draw a stickman
[14:15:15] <zeeshan-laptop> and call it a day
[14:15:39] <ssi> ok so anyone have any experience flashing 5i25 firmware?
[14:15:43] <PetefromTn_> Wanting to build in more adjustments and change some pivot points from the original plastic POS trigger blade and come up with a much nicer match trigger.
[14:16:05] <Loetmichel> ssi: these were fun. ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4772&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:16:18] <Loetmichel> the tiles were 30cm by 30cm ;-)
[14:16:19] <ssi> Loetmichel: nice work
[14:16:31] <ssi> Loetmichel: was the prepreg cured when you got it?
[14:16:37] <Loetmichel> yes
[14:16:39] <ssi> gotcha
[14:16:50] <ssi> is it laser cut or waterjet?
[14:16:54] <ssi> or I guess it could be milled
[14:16:57] <ssi> but milling cf is tough
[14:17:10] <PetefromTn_> I also want to build it to accept this cool adjustable trigger blade...
http://www.altiusguns.com/product.php?product_id=21093
[14:17:18] <Loetmichel> that were 7mm thick plates, 2 layers prepreg eachss side and 6mm armaid paper honeycomb in the middle
[14:17:26] <Loetmichel> ssi: use the right toos
[14:17:28] <Loetmichel> tools
[14:17:52] <ssi> Loetmichel:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOqqIEJCIAEGkdg.jpg:large
[14:17:57] <ssi> I milled all that
[14:18:06] <ssi> with an HSS endmill :/
[14:18:11] <ssi> poor little endmill never saw it coming
[14:18:12] <ssi> heh
[14:18:17] <zeeshan-laptop> thas sexy
[14:18:18] <zeeshan-laptop> what is it
[14:18:24] <ssi> instrument panel for my airplane! :D
[14:18:30] <zeeshan-laptop> nice
[14:18:37] <zeeshan-laptop> pics of airplane?
[14:18:39] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOqqQCOCAAAvQAg.jpg:large
[14:18:56] <zeeshan-laptop> you're 5 levels above me
[14:18:59] <zeeshan-laptop> i build race cars
[14:19:01] <PetefromTn_> looks like a place to play Wii..
[14:19:01] <Loetmichel> ssi: too murderer
[14:19:02] <zeeshan-laptop> you build frigging ariplanes
[14:19:03] <zeeshan-laptop> hahah
[14:19:13] <ssi> https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/247629_10100172352152412_325887569_n.jpg
[14:19:19] <Loetmichel> use tungsten carbide tools, preferably diamopnd-clad!
[14:19:25] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi
[14:19:27] <zeeshan-laptop> that is so sexy!
[14:19:31] <ssi> :)
[14:19:33] <zeeshan-laptop> custom built?
[14:19:46] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: depending on your definition of custom, yes
[14:19:57] <zeeshan-laptop> like handcrafted aluminum skins
[14:19:57] <Loetmichel> ssi: i made a "fulll CF" quadcopter frame...
[14:19:59] <zeeshan-laptop> = custom
[14:20:11] <Loetmichel> weithing less than 100gr.
[14:20:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5245
[14:20:24] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: this one is a kit, and it comes looking like this
[14:20:25] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_standard_kit_lg.jpg
[14:20:26] <Loetmichel> that are 1 liter milk packs on it ;-)
[14:20:34] <zeeshan-laptop> wow
[14:20:38] <ssi> but most people misinterpret the word "kit"
[14:20:39] <zeeshan-laptop> that is so cool.
[14:20:40] <ssi> it's custom
[14:20:46] <ssi> there's tons of fabrication
[14:20:55] <zeeshan-laptop> do you have to tig weld anything?
[14:20:56] <ssi> the kits just save you a pile of sheetmetal prep
[14:20:59] <PetefromTn_> better get it right man!!
[14:21:01] <zeeshan-laptop> or is it bolts and nuts and rivets
[14:21:06] <ssi> it's mostly rivets
[14:21:17] <ssi> I've had to do some welding, but it's conceivable to completely build one of these with no welding
[14:21:37] <ssi> I also built the fuselage for a pitts S1-S, which was a scratchbuilt welded tube steel truss fuselage
[14:21:38] <zeeshan-laptop> thin wall aluminum is a bitch to weld without warping
[14:21:56] <ssi> and for that I got plans and bought a truckload of tubing and cut/fit/welded
[14:22:07] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi did i mention you're crazy?
[14:22:13] <ssi> oh I'm aware
[14:22:15] <zeeshan-laptop> you're going to be flying a custom built plane
[14:22:15] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[14:22:18] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[14:22:20] <Loetmichel> i wouldnt trust an airframe i had wleded my self, to be honest ;-)
[14:22:21] <ssi> that's not what makes me crazy :)
[14:22:24] <Loetmichel> welded
[14:22:27] <ssi> Loetmichel: I would
[14:22:39] <zeeshan-laptop> tig welding an air frame would be realy easy
[14:22:40] <ssi> Loetmichel: I'm not the world's best welder, but I'm adequate
[14:22:43] <zeeshan-laptop> i love tig
[14:22:52] <ssi> and I have a friend who's a certified aerospace welder, and he looks over my work
[14:22:52] <zeeshan-laptop> you know exactly how much youre penetrating
[14:23:09] <ssi> plus I've seen the oxyfuel welded bullshit that people built in the 60s and 70s that flies just fine
[14:23:11] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi, after you've flown your plane for a couple months
[14:23:13] <zeeshan-laptop> take me for a ride :D
[14:23:18] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: what part of the world are you in
[14:23:25] <zeeshan-laptop> near toronto, canada
[14:23:31] <ssi> ok it's a deal :)
[14:23:35] <ssi> I can be in toronto in 4 hours in this thing
[14:23:38] <zeeshan-laptop> hehehe
[14:24:01] <ssi> I actually have really been wanting to go to toronto
[14:24:02] <ssi> I hear it's awesome
[14:24:08] <Loetmichel> ssi: top speed around 200 mph?
[14:24:15] <zeeshan-laptop> im going to be going for my recreational permit after im done my masters
[14:24:22] <zeeshan-laptop> yea man, theres a lot to do here
[14:24:27] <ssi> Loetmichel: Vne is 230mph
[14:24:41] <Loetmichel> cloese enough ;-)
[14:24:43] <Loetmichel> close
[14:24:45] <ssi> Loetmichel: cruise speed I'm hoping for 216mph
[14:24:49] <ssi> 188kt
[14:24:52] <Loetmichel> nice
[14:24:53] <ssi> that's my target :)
[14:24:58] <ssi> should be able to break 180 fairly easily
[14:25:05] <ssi> it's 200hp and 1100lb empty
[14:25:22] <Loetmichel> as long as you dont plan to do supersonic its fine with me ;-)
[14:25:22] <ssi> ~1800lb gross... that's a lot of power/weight
[14:25:28] <zeeshan-laptop> what kind of license do you have
[14:25:31] <ssi> nah, supersonic is tough
[14:25:43] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: ppasel/instrument
[14:25:51] <zeeshan-laptop> ah so you can fly at night time too
[14:25:53] <ssi> sure
[14:26:04] <ssi> any private pilot can fly at night in the us
[14:26:08] <ssi> only sport pilot license can't
[14:26:54] <Loetmichel> thet a some things i would LIKE tha german government to copy from america
[14:27:03] <Loetmichel> ... and its not the NSA behavior.
[14:27:09] <ssi> heh
[14:27:16] <ssi> aviation is the last bastion of freedom in the us
[14:27:22] <Loetmichel> but the ppl in germany is prohibitive expensive
[14:27:32] <ssi> there are tons of rules, but the rules are only there so that when someone dies the government can blame the pilot
[14:27:38] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi lol
[14:27:47] <Loetmichel> and you have to do 100 hr airtime a year or it its forfeit
[14:27:48] <zeeshan-laptop> its always the pilots fault
[14:27:56] <ssi> Loetmichel: 100hr a year is a ton
[14:28:11] <zeeshan-laptop> 100 hours wtf
[14:28:13] <ssi> I flew 250hr/yr my first two years of airplane ownership
[14:28:17] <zeeshan-laptop> thatd cost 18,500$ here
[14:28:17] <ssi> but these days it's more like 30-50
[14:28:46] <Loetmichel> (or was it 50 hr a year?)
[14:29:07] <ssi> Loetmichel:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv7perf.htm
[14:29:11] <Loetmichel> and helicopter was 100
[14:29:23] <ssi> Loetmichel: the numbers on the rv7 are very impressive
[14:29:28] <zeeshan-laptop> give it a shot of nitrous
[14:29:31] <ssi> and they actually make the numbers too
[14:29:42] <ssi> there's 9000 of these planes flying
[14:29:45] <ssi> across the vans product line
[14:29:59] <Loetmichel> th only "real" thing i have ever piloted is this:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3542
[14:30:11] <Loetmichel> ... and that was a LOOOONG time ago, apparently ;-)
[14:30:14] <ssi> yea we talked about that :)
[14:30:15] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmiche lol
[14:30:20] <zeeshan-laptop> you look so young there
[14:30:22] <ssi> back when you were a spry youngster :)
[14:30:30] <Loetmichel> i was, about 20
[14:30:31] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmichel: working for the SS? :P
[14:30:45] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[14:30:52] <Loetmichel> no, but flying in da dawn
[14:31:01] <Loetmichel> better have sunglasses
[14:31:14] <Loetmichel> and these were top modern in the 90s
[14:32:01] <Loetmichel> they were even calles "pilot sunglasses"
[14:33:13] <Loetmichel> or like a friend said "fliege puck brille" (fly "puck" glasses) because of the blue mirror finish on the outside of the glasses
[14:37:31] <zeeshan-laptop> woohoo early day off
[14:37:33] <zeeshan-laptop> bi
[14:40:59] <ssi> lol
[14:42:51] <kfoltman> guys, what's the advantage (if any) of milling profiles by 'spiral' movements as opposed to slice by slice?
[14:43:01] <ssi> trochoidal milling you mean?
[14:43:17] <kfoltman> (slice by slice = mill a profile at 1mm depth, descend, mill the same profile, descent etc.)
[14:43:20] <ssi> the idea is to keep a constant cutter engagement depth for max toolpath efficiency
[14:48:43] <kfoltman> ssi: not trochoidal I think, I mean the method cambam uses where it descends into the profile gradually as opposed to plunging
[14:49:52] <kfoltman> I suppose it's the only way to use if the endmill does not do centre-cutting
[14:50:10] <ssi> oh... yeah, plunging is hard even on center cutting mills
[14:50:53] <kfoltman> context: I'm trying to replace cambam (which is kinda expensive for now) with a custom contraption made in Python, for the things that such a simple contraption might be adequate
[14:51:09] <kfoltman> this is for simple parts with few slots/milled holes
[14:51:53] <kfoltman> so, I'm trying to come up with some API that would allow me to express the common milling operations (well, the ones I'll need) with relative ease
[14:54:54] <Tom_itx> you mean spiral ramping?
[14:55:02] <kfoltman> Tom_itx: I think so
[14:55:14] <kfoltman> I'm new to CNC :)
[14:56:41] <Tom_itx> http://gnipsel.com/files/g-code-generator/
[14:56:46] <Tom_itx> have a look at jt's work
[14:57:07] <Tom_itx> for basic stuff
[15:01:27] <kfoltman> Tom_itx: Looking, but it looks like it's doing many things I'm not planning to do and few things I *am* planning to do :)
[15:01:45] <kfoltman> and it's GUI-oriented, not scripting-oriented
[15:07:28] <ssi> kfoltman: i'd be interested in seeing what you come up with, and maybe helping
[15:07:33] <ssi> cam has been the bane of my existence for a long time :)
[15:08:17] <kfoltman> ssi: well, in any case, I'm a newbie so keep your expectations realistic
[15:08:18] <kfoltman> but
[15:08:48] <kfoltman> yeah, for lots of stuff the web generators suck and the there's very little usable free CAM software
[15:09:23] <kfoltman> and the commercial stuff is expensive, overkill and not well suited for really simple things
[15:11:51] <kfoltman> ssi:
http://hastebin.com/kerewugexi.py
[15:14:10] <ssi> kfoltman: so, looks like you're just trying to make a conversational domain specific language to write g code at a higher level
[15:14:14] <ssi> not so much do actual CAM
[15:14:43] <ssi> in my mind, CAM means taking some representative form of an object you want to make, be it a dxf or an stl or whatever, and turning that into toolpaths programmatically
[15:15:06] <ssi> whereas what you're doing is writing an interpreter for a higher level language that interprets to g code
[15:17:13] <kfoltman> well, technically, "some representative form" doesn't need to be a pure data file
[15:17:30] <ssi> well sure
[15:17:43] <kfoltman> I'm not trying to read DXF, or at least, not yet
[15:17:47] <ssi> point being, eventually it's nice to be able to start in cad and then generate g code without having to write by hand
[15:18:07] <kfoltman> possibly
[15:18:18] <ssi> cause honestly for stuff that's simple enough to machine with what you're creating, it's simple enough to do in g-code
[15:18:31] <ssi> your time would be better spent learning how to do looping and subroutines in g-code
[15:18:43] <ssi> that's how I write most of my lathe programs
[15:18:45] <kfoltman> I'm using grbl at the moment, it doesn't do those things :)
[15:19:01] <kfoltman> going to switch to linuxcnc at some point, but don't have spare hardware to run it yet
[15:19:01] <ssi> lol
[15:19:37] <kfoltman> plus, what's the point of writing subroutines in ancient language?
[15:20:17] <ssi> that's an angle I have zero interest in arguing :)
[15:23:04] <kfoltman> I have to spend some time anyway, either on learning or writing higher-level tools, and gcode's suckage is not going to disappear after I learn it :)
[15:24:42] <ssi> sure... I'm not trying to piss on what you've done
[15:24:45] <kfoltman> besides, if the basic toolpath generation code is working, then adding DXF import might be a logical next step (except it still requires some major effort to generate optimal toolpaths etc.)
[15:24:57] <ssi> but if I ever get around to doing something like this, I'll probably start with dxf
[15:25:11] <ssi> optimal would be nice, but working is a good first step :)
[15:25:37] <kfoltman> of course :)
[15:25:50] <ssi> so the other thing you're probably going to want is some sort of verification and/or simulation
[15:25:56] <ssi> which is tough, especially without a ui
[15:26:07] <kfoltman> I'm not rejecting the idea of an UI
[15:26:19] <kfoltman> or at least different kinds of output besides gcode
[15:26:53] <ssi> yeah it could be as simple as drawing a png of the toolpath it generated
[16:00:35] <ssi> ok, so I flashed my spare 5i25 to g540x2 firmware
[16:00:49] <ssi> with that '25 in the system, motion is working again
[16:00:58] <ssi> so it looks like I did manage to kill the other 5i25
[16:01:10] <ssi> I wonder if I just killed one of the bus switches
[16:01:22] <ssi> cause it's not completely dead, some of it still works
[16:05:40] <kfoltman> how did you kill it?
[16:06:58] <ssi> sheer ignorance :)
[16:07:33] <kfoltman> are those signals on DB25 directly connected to an FPGA?
[16:07:34] <ssi> I am switching my plasma table to ohmic sensing instead of floating head, and I neglected a relay to switch the ohmic sensing line
[16:07:41] <ssi> through a 5v bus switch
[16:08:12] <kfoltman> so you got plasma-level voltage across FPGA pins?
[16:08:17] <ssi> something like that, yeah
[16:08:53] <kfoltman> sucks
[16:09:07] <ssi> the cap isn't directly connected to the electrode, but it does likely pick up all sorts of coupled nastyness
[16:09:23] <ssi> it doesn't look like there was any significant current, cause there's no evidence of physical damage
[16:09:45] <kfoltman> well, I suppose the voltage is all it takes to destroy the transistors in the IOB
[16:09:52] <ssi> yeah I'm sure
[16:09:58] <kfoltman> they die from much less
[16:10:12] <ssi> I'm just not sure if I killed the actual IOB, or the bus switch
[16:11:35] <kfoltman> ahh wait, I misread what you typed earlier - so there's a 5V level shifter in between the FPGA and the DB25? still, this kind of voltages can probably jump the gate easily
[16:12:00] <kfoltman> of a MOSFET
[16:12:01] <PCW> You probably want at least an opto isolator between the Ohmic sensor and the 5I25
[16:12:15] <ssi> PCW: I'm going to put a relay in
[16:12:20] <ssi> energize it only when I'm donig a probe move
[16:12:22] <kfoltman> PCW: 'at least'?
[16:12:33] <ssi> PCW: you think it's likely a dead bus switch rather than the fpga?
[16:12:39] <ssi> I can probably repair it :)
[16:12:50] <PCW> neither ground nor sense are really safe
[16:12:56] <kfoltman> ssi: it's not like you have anything to lose at this point, apart from time
[16:13:06] <ssi> exactly
[16:13:25] <ssi> PCW: you think an optoisolator would survive?
[16:13:26] <kfoltman> losing a card worth 100ish euro would suck
[16:13:27] <PCW> often its just the bust switch (if current is limited)
[16:13:39] <PCW> busted switch?
[16:13:51] <ssi> survive the crud on the torch cap I mean
[16:14:14] <ssi> I don't even really know what that looks like tbh... I've determined that this isn't an HF start machine, so it's probably just whatever couples from the 300-400V arc voltage
[16:14:24] <ssi> I have a friend coming over with a 1.3kv scope probe tonight
[16:14:53] <PCW> use a .5 MA opto, 24V and 1 50K 2W resistor
[16:15:15] <ssi> hm
[16:15:36] <PCW> that will survive most anything
[16:15:45] <JT-Shop> ssi, what's broke on the HNC?
[16:15:52] <ssi> 0.5 milliamp opto?
[16:16:05] <ssi> JT-Shop: the pneumatics that run the turret
[16:16:30] <PCW> so call high sensitivity OPTO
[16:16:32] <JT-Shop> did you see my post when I replaced all the o rings in my CHNC turret?
[16:16:43] <JT-Shop> or is your air motor shot?
[16:17:08] <ssi> JT-Shop: no I didn't... the air motor is fine. I had a shuttle valve break, and I replaced it at great expense
[16:17:14] <ssi> JT-Shop: reassembled everything and it doesn't work correctly
[16:17:24] <ssi> and I'm stupid when it comes to pneumatics
[16:17:40] <ssi> at this point I'm willing to fly to pick up someone and feed them beer and pizza to help me fix it :(
[16:17:55] <ssi> it's been a year and a half since it broke
[16:19:17] <DaViruz> pick me pick me!
[16:19:29] <ssi> if you can fix it, lets do it :)
[16:19:31] <JT-Shop> mmm beer and pizza
[16:19:33] <DaViruz> but wait till the RV is finished ;)
[16:19:52] <ssi> that'll be a long wait :(
[16:20:06] <DaViruz> maybe an rv isn't optimal for transatlantic flight
[16:20:16] <ssi> no, not optimal. But it's been done
[16:20:21] <DaViruz> oh?
[16:20:26] <ssi> yep
[16:20:28] <DaViruz> scotland - canada?
[16:20:39] <ssi> australia -> wisconsin, and then back the long way
[16:20:41] <ssi> twice
[16:20:44] <ssi> in opposite directions
[16:21:02] <DaViruz> oh
[16:21:18] <DaViruz> i was specifically referring to the atlantic ocean though
[16:21:27] <ssi> pretty sure you have to cross the atlantic to do that
[16:21:50] <ssi> holy crap he's flown it to the south pole
[16:22:00] <ssi> http://www.southpolestation.com/news/rv4/rv4.html
[16:22:03] <DaViruz> i'm pretty sure it's way shorter to cross the pacific?
[16:22:14] <ssi> you can't circumnavigate the globe without crossing the atlantic
[16:22:15] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/2697-rebuilding-a-hardinge-chnc-turret
[16:22:19] <ssi> and he's actually done it THREE Times now
[16:22:25] <ssi> http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/jonjohanson.html
[16:22:35] <DaViruz> oh i didn't see "the long way" part
[16:23:29] <JT-Shop> do the photos show up in that post?
[16:23:38] <ssi> no :(
[16:24:05] <ssi> I did take the turret off while I was doing this
[16:24:07] <ssi> and I wish I hadn't
[16:24:14] <DaViruz> ssi: i didn't realize an rv had that kind of range
[16:24:15] <ssi> it may not have gone back together correctly
[16:24:23] <ssi> DaViruz: he has a pile of ferry tanks in order to do it
[16:24:29] <ssi> DaViruz: don't think you can do it with a passenger
[16:26:37] <DaViruz> impressive
[16:30:38] <JT-Shop> ssi, if you need the photos I can try and find them
[16:30:48] <ssi> JT-Shop: it could be helpful
[16:31:22] <ssi> JT-Shop: I had to take apart all the pneumo stuff on the backside of the slide, including that big aluminum manifold that's in there
[16:31:39] <ssi> air motor had to come out, and the shuttle valve on the right rear side of the slide relative to the operator positon was replaced
[16:31:57] <ssi> when I put it all back togehter, I get what sounds like an air leak, that turns into a louder air leak when you command a toolchange
[16:32:13] * Jymmm pokes JT-Shop out of bed into the other window
[16:34:40] <Deejay> gn8
[16:50:59] <k6mle_> I am looking for configuration help with SOC RObotics MM160 & MK4 under LinuxCNC
[16:52:24] <k6mle_> My current setup is under Debian, running according to this link:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Wheezy_Linux-Rt_Compile_LinuxCNC
[16:55:03] <k6mle_> This is a 3-axis setup using NEMA 23 steppers.
[16:57:12] <JT-Shop> is there some reason not to use the Ubuntu LiveCD?
[16:59:09] <LeelooMinai> It's based on 10.04 so maybe it should be renamed to LivingDeadCD:)
[17:00:09] <ssi> lol
[17:00:23] <ssi> LeelooMinai: not sure why you're so hung up against 10.04 :)
[17:00:33] <ssi> it's a dedicated machine that just does cnc, I don't care personally if it's bleeding edge
[17:00:36] <ssi> or even modern
[17:01:08] <LeelooMinai> It's fine I guess if you just want to try it or just use for one purpose, but not so great if your pc will be used for different things involving automation
[17:01:20] <ssi> fair enough
[17:01:42] <ssi> I just buy cheapycheap off lease machines and dedicate one to each cnc machine
[17:01:51] <ssi> and for those I could care less what they're running
[17:02:42] <ssi> I'mma go to the gym before this storm whacks us good... back in a bit
[17:02:53] <LeelooMinai> I already have many computers in my house - don't want to get too crazy with the number of them
[17:02:56] <JT-Shop> ssi I'm not having any luck finding the photos but I have one more place to look in the morning
[17:03:08] <ssi> JT-Shop: ok, no rush. I'm not gonna start looking at the hnc til plasma is sorted out
[17:03:16] <ssi> JT-Shop: when I get to hnc I may just take a pile of pics and get your advice :)
[17:03:25] <ssi> crap I think it's too late on that storm... it's here
[17:03:29] <ssi> I guess I'll wait til it subsides
[17:03:36] <k6mle_> I'm using a box that wasn't needed elsewhere and the 10.04 install was acting real sluggish.
[17:04:11] <k6mle_> Hence the change to Debian.
[17:04:31] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I want to get to where I can run my machines with beaglebones
[17:04:34] <ssi> they're cheap and tiny
[17:04:51] <ssi> but that's aways off
[17:04:56] <LeelooMinai> I saw those mentioned many times when I was installing linuxcnc
[17:05:12] <LeelooMinai> I think machinekit targets those?
[17:05:21] <ssi> ya
[17:05:43] <LeelooMinai> Though you may have problems sticking one of those nice mesa cards into them:)
[17:06:08] <ssi> yeah well that's the part I'm working on :)
[17:06:30] <LeelooMinai> Some kind of fpga add-on board?
[17:06:37] <ssi> yes exactly
[17:07:02] <LeelooMinai> I saw someone here posting a link to ARM board with some fpga on it
[17:07:15] <ssi> yeah there's tons of stuff out there like that
[17:07:42] <ssi> I'm partial to the the bbb, CaptHindsight is partial to the allwinner A20 and has been exclaiming about the bananapi lately
[17:07:43] <LeelooMinai> All the hardware, but software seems to be behind
[17:08:16] <mozmck> I think a board with an ARM and FPGA could be an ideal control board.
[17:08:38] <LeelooMinai> Yes, if one could run nice real time os on it with available software...
[17:09:22] <mozmck> Yes. Xenomai is available on many ARM chips and gets close to rtai.
[17:09:22] <ssi> yeah i agree
[17:09:25] <ssi> these are things I want :)
[17:09:39] <LeelooMinai> Anyone here tried to interface to all those different Chinese calipery hardware?
[17:09:41] <ssi> the one hurdle with the bbb is opengl
[17:09:50] <mozmck> I think Xenomai is the main rt system used on the BB
[17:09:53] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I've never done it, but I've read about doing it
[17:09:55] <ssi> mozmck: yes, it is
[17:10:13] <LeelooMinai> My calipers and indicator have a place for some weird 4-pin connector
[17:10:25] <LeelooMinai> While scales use usb, so also 4 pins
[17:10:47] <LeelooMinai> Cannot find those connectors anywhere though
[17:10:48] <ssi> LeelooMinai:
http://www.yadro.de/digital-scale/protocol.html
[17:10:51] <mozmck> I think the opengl problem is because of no/bad video drivers?
[17:11:07] <ssi> mozmck: I dunno if the chip has any reasonable hardware video accel
[17:11:18] <ssi> but honestly I dont' care that much about the opengl preview
[17:11:19] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... maybe I will just solder some more normalish connector to those pads or something
[17:11:33] <ssi> in fact I want to look into machinekit and see how the web control stuff works
[17:11:35] <LeelooMinai> Or even wires with connector on the end
[17:12:00] <Connor> LeelooMinai: So, why do you have a DRO connected to the Z ?
[17:12:21] <LeelooMinai> Well, I just connected them to all 3 axis
[17:12:37] <mozmck> yes, a remote interface is a neat idea, but I would want a local one on a machine.
[17:12:40] <LeelooMinai> To have some data I guess
[17:12:40] <ssi> LeelooMinai: they're not really necessary, but you won't regret having them :)
[17:12:50] <Connor> You going to try to use them for closed loop to LinuxCNC ?
[17:13:02] <Connor> not sure they'll refresh fast enough for that.
[17:13:23] <LeelooMinai> Connor: I may use them in whatever way will make sense - once I fogure out a good way to interface to them
[17:13:38] <ssi> LeelooMinai: the info is out there
[17:13:53] <DaViruz> homing could be one use
[17:13:59] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I read that. I am not worrying about protocol and EE part of it much.
[17:14:06] <ssi> LeelooMinai: have a picture of the connector?
[17:14:24] <LeelooMinai> Well, I saw someone selling a kit for that, but $150:)
[17:14:27] <LeelooMinai> Just a sec
[17:14:28] <DaViruz> or rather the absence of homing
[17:14:43] <ssi> "Fast: higher reading rate. Normally about 3 / second, in fast mode about 50
[17:14:50] <ssi> yeah that's defintiely not fast enough for closed loop
[17:14:51] <LeelooMinai> This is much cheaper I see:
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1990
[17:15:14] <LeelooMinai> The rectangular part is the one that is weird and I could not find
[17:15:23] <ssi> yeah I dunno about that
[17:15:38] <ssi> I'd probably just solder to the pads, hackyness be damned
[17:15:59] <LeelooMinai> It just slides onto 4 pads about 1mm or maybe a bit more apart
[17:16:06] <LeelooMinai> That are directly on the pcb
[17:16:58] <LeelooMinai> But even this one $17 + postage for one - that's not a good price
[17:17:02] <ssi> I personally hate those cheap scales... they don't work very well
[17:17:29] <LeelooMinai> aliexpress has also glass ones but they are at least 3x the price
[17:17:44] <ssi> you don't really need glass scales with ballscrews
[17:17:56] <ssi> if you want some feedback, a shaft-mounted encoder on the stepper is a reasonable option
[17:18:05] <ssi> I like that option a lot for ultra-precise homing
[17:18:09] <LeelooMinai> If it does not skip, yes
[17:18:20] <LeelooMinai> I guess if it skips it's a fail anyways
[17:18:35] <ssi> the encoder will let you fault if it skips
[17:18:45] <ssi> without the encoder you have no way of knowing
[17:18:59] <LeelooMinai> Have a link to how such an ancoder looks?
[17:19:00] <Connor> ssi, scales gives you better precision. Backlash be damned, screw pitch accuracy be damned.
[17:19:01] <ssi> the only thing the encoder doesnn't buy you is detecting lost motion in the axis mechanics themselves
[17:19:13] <LeelooMinai> Can they just be attached to the end of the stepper (I have shaft on both sides there)
[17:19:20] <mozmck> yes
[17:19:27] <ssi> yep
[17:19:41] <LeelooMinai> Hmm
[17:19:43] <Connor> You CAN do closed loop with steppers..
[17:19:55] <LeelooMinai> Using back emf?
[17:20:00] <Connor> use them in velocity mode vs step mode.
[17:20:16] <Connor> but, they can't make up for lost steps still.
[17:20:32] <ssi> LeelooMinai: something like this
[17:20:33] <ssi> LeelooMinai:
http://www.evarobotics.com/images/Products/FW-A002_6.jpg
[17:20:50] <LeelooMinai> Right, I though something like a scale would be nicer as it is detached from the stepper completely
[17:20:55] <LeelooMinai> thought*
[17:20:59] <ssi> it is nicer
[17:21:08] <ssi> but those cheap scales are less nice even than a shaft encoder
[17:21:09] <Jymmm> LOL, jsut pretend steppers can't do closed loop and save yourself some grief. That has beena very long and repeated line of conversation for years and years on here.
[17:21:14] <CaptHindsight> the problem with the ARM boards has been too high a price for too low power and lack of FPGA
[17:21:44] <Connor> The BEST setup is Scales, and encoders both. Scales for position, encoder for PID and velocity control.
[17:21:57] <Connor> again though, steppers and closed loop are kinda a BS thing.
[17:21:58] <ssi> Connor: at that point you might as well run servos
[17:21:59] <CaptHindsight> Samsung and Marvell won't sell anyone their good parts unless you want to buy 1Million
[17:22:17] <Connor> ssi I didn't say anything about steppers vs servo's in that sentence. :)
[17:22:35] <ssi> and honestly for LeelooMinai's purposes, she's better off just running it purely as an open loop stepper machine
[17:22:43] <Connor> yup.
[17:23:11] <ssi> but I understand that, having already mounted them, she's not going to want to just abandon them :)
[17:23:18] <ssi> I just don't think they're going to be terribly useful
[17:23:21] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, some of those encoders are more expensive than the stepper motors I have
[17:23:26] <CaptHindsight> Freescale imx6, Allwinner and realtek ARM soc's all have kernel source but the one people seemed to pick for cnc is the way overpriced TI BBB
[17:23:33] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I've used some that work well that are about $25 apiece
[17:23:45] <ssi> LeelooMinai: and ideally you'll want mesa gear to be able to count the quadrature
[17:23:59] <CaptHindsight> $45 for a BBB and ~$100 for an IO board
[17:24:12] <ssi> (bear in mind that when the good cap'm says "way overpriced" he means $11)
[17:24:14] <LeelooMinai> I have mesa pcie kit in plans
[17:24:38] <LeelooMinai> The bob I have is just plain one and has only I think 5 or 6 inputs
[17:24:46] <CaptHindsight> x86 boards cost less
[17:25:09] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you're planning on a 7i76 kit, right?
[17:25:18] <LeelooMinai> Yes, the stepper one
[17:25:26] <ssi> it may not be capable of counting multiple axes worth of encoders
[17:25:29] <CaptHindsight> ARM is overpriced vs x86
[17:25:31] <LeelooMinai> plus that 5i25 I think board
[17:25:33] <ssi> typically only servo systems use encoders
[17:26:09] <ssi> PCW: can the 7i76 be set up to count encoders on the field IO?
[17:26:10] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... maybe I don't want those encoders anyways? :)
[17:26:21] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you honestly don't need the encoders or the scales
[17:27:19] <LeelooMinai> I will leave the scales as they are already there and are a good sanity feedback I guess
[17:27:35] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: but doesn't x86 need a lot of extra chips compared to ARM? Is the overall cost actually more?
[17:27:48] <ssi> LeelooMinai: my concern is that the lack of speed is going to make them so that they aren't even useful for fault finding
[17:28:08] <ssi> LeelooMinai: if the axis can jog farther than your follow error in the amount of time it takes the scale to update, the axis will fault when it shouldn't
[17:28:37] <LeelooMinai> ssi: You mean lack of speed of the scales itself or getting data from them?
[17:28:52] <ssi> LeelooMinai: is there a practical difference between those two things? :)
[17:29:25] <LeelooMinai> I would say yes - the first is show-stopper, the other one can make them still useful - just not for real-time loop
[17:29:32] <ssi> from the page I linked you earlier: "Fast: higher reading rate. Normally about 3 / second, in fast mode about 50"
[17:29:58] <ssi> if it has a fast mode, 50hz is pretty slow... 20ms. that's 20x your servo loop
[17:30:04] <ssi> if not, 3Hz is ridiculously slow
[17:30:08] <ssi> 333ms is an eternity
[17:30:43] <LeelooMinai> I can still use them for, say, homing
[17:30:56] <ssi> yes, precision homing would be a fair use for them
[17:31:05] <DaViruz> homing without movement would be nice. almost like a absolute linear scale machine
[17:31:23] <ssi> i dunno if linuxcnc is capable of referenced homing without moving like that
[17:31:29] <ssi> might could be added if you're clever with code
[17:31:56] <ssi> and I dunno about the chinese scales, but my glass scales have to be moved a few inches before they pick up reference marks to have absolute position
[17:32:04] <DaViruz> i like the heidenhain scales that have unique index marks every 10mm or so
[17:32:08] <LeelooMinai> Right, all I need is just get the current absolute position to the pc and the rest should not be too difiicult
[17:32:33] <ssi> LeelooMinai: maybe! linuxcnc is setup to do precision homing using indexes, not absolute position data
[17:32:47] <ssi> it may take some exotic hal at minimum, or code hackery at workst
[17:32:48] <DaViruz> those digital caliper type deals are truly absolute
[17:33:14] <DaViruz> the cheap ones don't tend to hold the zero very well though
[17:33:14] <LeelooMinai> But those indexes just mark some distance between them, right?
[17:33:16] <ssi> LeelooMinai: not trying to be negative, just thinking of pitfalls...
[17:33:47] <ssi> LeelooMinai: well with homing, the way linuxcnc is written currently is it finds a switch closure, backs off that switch, and then attempts to find the next index pulse of an encoder
[17:33:57] <MrHindsight> mozmck: x86 is SOC or cpu and one hub, with higher part count and board size than ARM SOC boards, and higher BOM, the ARM boards just have higher profit margins or are made so inefficiently their prices are higher
[17:34:50] <LeelooMinai> But they are kind of popping out like mushrooms after a rain recently - the prices should be better and bettter
[17:35:33] <ssi> most of them are under the $50 price point; as far as I'm concerned price isn't an issue. For hobbyist class CNC, I'm not concerned about pinching pennies like that
[17:35:45] <ssi> if I was buying a million of them I'd be more concerned
[17:36:15] <MrHindsight> the Allwinner and Mediatek dual core ARM soc's are ~$6
[17:36:33] <ssi> and the ti is $11. Sure it's almost twice as much, but that's still FIVE DOLLARS.
[17:36:53] <mozmck> what about the imx6? it looks like a pretty good chip
[17:37:05] <ssi> mozmck: I have an imx6 based board here; haven't done much with it yet
[17:37:10] <MrHindsight> whats on the BBB IO board for ~$100?
[17:37:23] <ssi> I don't know which io board you're talking about
[17:37:28] <ssi> there are dozens out there
[17:37:37] <ssi> I've got fpga boards that I put together for $30 apiece
[17:37:40] <mozmck> If I had time I've thought the xilinx zync or the altera equivalent could be interesting.
[17:37:50] <LeelooMinai> The simple bobs are just lot's of optocouplers and connectors
[17:38:01] <MrHindsight> the imx6 ranges from ~$10 - $30 depending on number of cores, speed and temp range
[17:38:40] <MrHindsight> mozmck: the ZYNQ never came down in price and has no GPU
[17:39:16] <mozmck> I see.
[17:39:35] <mozmck> so an ARM with separate FPGA will be better.
[17:39:48] <ssi> mozmck: probably
[17:40:07] <MrHindsight> I just need to give a BOM and gerbers to the ARM board makers in China that have all those arm9, 2550, avr etc etc boards
[17:40:08] <MrHindsight> they'll make it and keep the price down
[17:40:40] <mozmck> the issue with 5 dollars is that the final price needs to be roughly 4x the parts cost, which means $20 difference in final price
[17:41:08] <ssi> mozmck: i'm talking about bbb, which exists already and is $45
[17:41:20] <ssi> yes, it costs more than a $35 raspi, but it's a better machine
[17:41:24] <ssi> and that's ten dollars
[17:41:51] <ssi> as for the fpga board, the fpga in particular I need to use is $15.60 in single qty
[17:41:57] <ssi> these aren't big numbers
[17:42:04] <mozmck> yes, true, but it is not ideal it seems either, and the price is going up $10 or $15
[17:42:08] <MrHindsight> in China $5 would be a nice margin for a $50 board
[17:42:32] <mozmck> I guess as qty goes up the margin can go down.
[17:42:34] <ssi> it's getting very frustrating having this argument
[17:43:14] <ssi> I'm talking about trynig to do something right now with hardware that exists right now which I have in my possession
[17:43:31] <MrHindsight> what wrong with the BBB?
[17:43:34] <ssi> telling me that i can't or shouldn't do it because you want to have someoen else make something slightly cheaper in the future isn't really germane
[17:45:34] <ssi> ok leaving now for real.. back later
[17:45:36] <mozmck> I haven't told you any such thing...
[17:45:39] <ssi> mozmck: not you :P
[17:45:53] <MrHindsight> BBB + ~$100 overcoat + machinekit
[17:46:03] <MrHindsight> done
[17:46:24] <ssi> I don't know where your $100 comes from, or how you're going to avoid having the same amount of IO hardware with whatever magic two dollar chinese soc you want to use
[17:46:53] <ssi> it's like saying that your car is cheaper and better than my car because my car needs $600 worth of tires
[17:46:58] <MrHindsight> isn't that the beboperer board price?
[17:47:05] <ssi> I have no clue
[17:47:11] <ssi> I intend to make my own io hardware
[17:47:46] <MrHindsight> I'm just passing along info and observations
[17:48:21] <ssi> I haven't seen any info other than how shitty and expensive you think ti's soc is
[17:48:53] <ssi> sure it's expensive
[17:49:02] <ssi> it's literally ones of dollars more than the chinese soc
[17:49:07] <ssi> but it's also proven and documented
[17:49:10] <ssi> which I rather enjoy
[17:49:20] <ssi> the reason the raspi is a joke in my mind is the completely closed broadcom soc
[17:50:25] <ssi> I'm sorry for getting irritable about it... I just want to make something happen, and i feel like you've gone out of your way to undermine it
[17:50:29] <ssi> for a long time now
[17:50:47] <ssi> I've come to terms with the fact that I'm on my own on this particular project, but I guess now I'm just that much more determined :(
[17:53:11] <MrHindsight> http://uk.farnell.com/circuitco/bb-bone-bbpr-01/board-beaglebone-bebopr-cape/dp/2281608 only price I could find
[17:53:21] <MrHindsight> unstable internet connection today
[17:53:41] <ssi> that's not the kind of io board I'm interested in
[17:54:00] <ssi> plus doesn't it have a pile of pololus on it?
[17:54:21] <ssi> $100 for io plus stepper drivers doesn't seem THAT expensive
[17:54:46] <ssi> for reference, charles steinkeuhler's CRAMPS kit is $60, and he's putting those together in small qty by hand
[17:55:06] <MrHindsight> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/thread/CADq47t%2B3U2pfOaof%2BBhAoOdJM54tA%2BjDc_7gQHFi2b%2Bqzad_9g%40mail.gmail.com/#msg32498596 news today
[17:56:11] <ssi> that's closer
[17:56:22] <ssi> I don't know what etherCAT is tho
[17:56:33] <ssi> ethernet based fieldbus
[17:56:55] <ssi> I wonder if those need full phys
[17:56:58] <ssi> cause those cost money
[17:57:18] <kfoltman> there was this webpage with gazillion different breakout boards for bbb
[17:57:30] <kfoltman> for machinekit etc.
[17:57:37] <ssi> the board I'm looking at is literally going to be a $16 in single qty fpga, two bus switches or level shifters, some power supply hardware, and two idc headers
[17:57:38] <kfoltman> http://blog.machinekit.io/p/hardware-capes.html
[17:57:45] <k6mle_> Anybody have successful experience with the SOC Robotics stuff?
[17:57:59] <ssi> raw component cost minus pcb should be in the vicinity of $30-35 in low qtys
[17:58:15] <mozmck> ssi: that sounds more interesting.
[17:58:15] <ssi> but again, I dont' care about the cost
[17:58:33] <ssi> mozmck: what I want is a BBB instead of a $200 tigerdirect dell optiplex
[17:58:38] <ssi> mozmck: with a mesa card.
[17:58:53] <kfoltman> ssi: me too
[17:58:56] <ssi> mozmck: since bbb has no pci or pcie, that means a cape that's like a mesa 5i25 but not quite
[17:59:07] <mozmck> I see. What about isolation?
[17:59:09] <ssi> this has been done, pcw did it for the cubie
[17:59:21] <ssi> but for whatever reason, nobody wants to do it for the bbb
[17:59:24] <ssi> so I'm going to have to do it myself
[17:59:30] <mozmck> why not use the cubie?
[17:59:32] * kfoltman would use a cape with terminal blocks for step/dir and some input and nothing else
[17:59:35] <ssi> because I don't want a cubie :P
[17:59:41] <mozmck> ok :)
[17:59:43] <ssi> kfoltman: such things exist already
[18:00:01] <ssi> mozmck: because bbbs are ubiquitous as hell, because I've done a ton of work with them, I've bought seventy of them in the last five months
[18:00:09] <mozmck> are you going to have opto-isolation for inputs?
[18:00:11] <ssi> mozmck: because I understand the soc and the device tree for it
[18:00:12] <kfoltman> seventy!
[18:00:22] <mozmck> makes sense.
[18:00:28] <ssi> mozmck: it'll have exactly the same isolation that a 5i25 has
[18:00:34] <ssi> mozmck: ie, mostly left up to the daughterboards
[18:00:53] <ssi> kfoltman: yes, I built some environmental control systems for a client based on them
[18:00:54] <mozmck> ok, so it will need daughterboards as well then.
[18:01:05] <ssi> mozmck: yes, but standard off the shelf mesa daughterboards
[18:01:11] <mozmck> I see.
[18:01:14] <ssi> which cram a pile of functionality into a relatively inexpensive breakout
[18:01:24] <ssi> cost will be similar
[18:01:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.zedboard.org/product/zedboard
[18:01:39] <kfoltman> ssi:
http://probotix.com/breakout_boards/ the $69.95 one looks kinda good, maybe a bit expensive but good
[18:01:40] <ssi> talking $250 total for everything involved to run a six axis servo machine with a ton of io
[18:02:06] <kfoltman> http://probotix.com/index.php?view=product&path=16&product_id=204 that one
[18:02:26] <ssi> kfoltman:
http://shop.steinkuehler.net/products.php?2
[18:02:30] <ssi> I have one of those
[18:02:32] <ssi> haven't built it yet
[18:02:41] <ssi> but all this stuff is toy stuff
[18:02:44] <ssi> 3d printer stuff
[18:02:48] <ssi> not what I'm looking for
[18:03:10] <CaptHindsight> the Zedboards are $400 with the two hard ARM cores
[18:03:44] <ssi> steinkuehler's work is great, using the PRUSS for hardware stepgen
[18:03:48] <CaptHindsight> not that much IO but plenty of gates
[18:03:51] <ssi> but I'd much prefer just to use the proven mesa stuff
[18:03:58] <ssi> it's just sooooo much more flexible
[18:05:09] <ssi> so the work involved is designing a board, figuring out which hardware bus to use in place of pci, porting the mesa firmware vhdl to use the new bus instead of pci, and then porting hostmot2 to communicate via that bus
[18:05:13] <ssi> it's a pile of work
[18:05:59] <kfoltman> ssi: what do you miss, servo motor support?
[18:06:17] <ssi> kfoltman: that's a good example, sure
[18:06:24] <PCW> SPI is supported as a hm2 firmware option
[18:06:29] <ssi> PCW: awesome
[18:06:43] <ssi> maybe it's a smaller pile of work then :D
[18:06:51] <PCW> (no linuxcnc driver yet but it should be pretty easy)
[18:06:56] <ssi> PCW: I know we talked about this a long while back
[18:07:19] <ssi> PCW: but what's the minimum bandwidth requirements for SPI for full functionality with two superport daughterboards?
[18:07:35] <JT-Shop> well moving the 1" hydraulic hose from where it could not be to where it could be sucked less than I thought
[18:08:24] <PCW> currently without any tricks it working at 50 MHz which is fine for up to medium size systems
[18:08:36] <ssi> ok that'll be fine for getting me started
[18:08:44] <ssi> I may layout a board this week
[18:09:16] <ssi> kfoltman, mozmck: if you guys are interested in screwing with it let me know so I know how many boards to order
[18:09:33] <ssi> I'll get at least ten, but if folks want to play with it I can get 50, there's almost no price difference
[18:09:33] <mozmck> I'm interested.
[18:10:07] <PCW> the 7i90 manual has the SPI protocol details
[18:10:11] <ssi> the fact that we can do it with SPI means we cankeep the hdmi framer
[18:10:21] <kfoltman> ssi: so this is to provide optoisolated, LinuxCNC-compatible I/O for BBB?
[18:10:36] <ssi> kfoltman: in a roundabout sort of way, yes
[18:10:45] <kfoltman> ssi: with onboard FPGA or?
[18:10:52] <ssi> with fpga, yes
[18:10:58] <ssi> kfoltman: are you familiar with the mesa stuff?
[18:11:00] <kfoltman> and what's the cost?
[18:11:06] <kfoltman> no, I only read about mesa today
[18:11:14] <kfoltman> seems way out of my league
[18:11:18] <ssi> kfoltman: go look at the mesa 7i76, 7i77 plug and go kits
[18:11:26] <ssi> I'm shooting for that exact funcitonality
[18:11:34] <ssi> daughterboards will still come from them
[18:11:36] <CaptHindsight> why pick an ARM soc that can't run a decent GUI?
[18:11:39] <ssi> cost for the host interface will be similar
[18:11:48] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I swear to god I'm not having this argument again :)
[18:12:22] <CaptHindsight> not an argument, just wondering, I don't care if you pick a sam9
[18:12:59] <ssi> because a bird in the hand is worth two in the minds of an armchair internet engineer
[18:13:12] <CaptHindsight> do most people run headless?
[18:13:49] <kfoltman> ssi: looks a little bit too advanced for my uses (which is basically a wooden crapola CNC router)
[18:13:59] <ssi> PCW: interesting, I hadn't seen the 7i90 before. Is that the one you did to use with the cubie?
[18:14:20] <ssi> kfoltman: don't underestimate the power of hardware step generation!
[18:14:46] <kfoltman> ssi: well, sure, but you don't mount a Ferrari engine in a Ford Ka
[18:15:00] <kfoltman> or, rather, a poorly hacked together tricycle
[18:15:09] <ssi> kfoltman: you obviously haven't met me :)
[18:15:10] <kfoltman> which is what my machine is
[18:15:41] <ssi> kfoltman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCD1cf1jG5E
[18:15:49] <PCW> 7I90 is simple SPI/EPP/RS422 serial/SSRemote FPGA card
[18:15:52] <ssi> that's essentially the time I mounted a ferrari engine in a ford ka
[18:16:02] <ssi> PCW: I may order one to develop with
[18:16:04] <PCW> 7I91 is for Cubie
[18:16:38] <PCW> working on 7I90 ssremote code ATM
[18:17:23] <ssi> PCW: silly question, what does LBP stand for?
[18:17:25] <kfoltman> ssi: before I fork out 200 euro for the advanced I/O, I probably need a proper mount for Z axis motor, to begin with ;)
[18:17:42] <PCW> Little Binary Protocol
[18:17:45] <ssi> aha :D
[18:18:13] <PCW> 7I92 is Ethernet version of 5I25 (soon)
[18:18:21] * Jymmm wants Lower Ascii protocol =)
[18:18:23] <ssi> oo
[18:18:31] <kfoltman> Ethernet!
[18:18:38] <CaptHindsight> LAP?
[18:18:48] <ssi> PCW: ethernet in place of PCI you mean?
[18:19:10] <PCW> Yes
[18:19:15] <ssi> that could be amazing
[18:19:18] <kfoltman> ssi: BTW, I do have some fpga boards
[18:19:23] <PCW> like the 7I80/7I76E
[18:19:39] <kfoltman> ssi: I could try generating step/dir with my laughable basys2, heh
[18:19:40] <PCW> but much cheaper
[18:20:20] <ssi> PCW: btw I wouldn't be stepping on your toes by trying to make a bbb cape that's 5i25 compatible, would I?
[18:20:30] <ssi> PCW: I don't intend to try to make money from it, I just want to diy it as a hobby
[18:22:56] <ssi> whoa, all sorts of neat new products over there
[18:23:00] <ssi> 7i76E looks awesome
[18:23:41] <CaptHindsight> ssi: why don't you gibe the design to one of the low cost board houses in China, then there could be lots of them for cheap
[18:24:35] <ssi> it's not exactly that kind of project
[18:25:00] <ssi> heh actually 7i76E might negate the need for my project :P
[18:25:03] <PCW> You can use the Hostmot2 firmware any way you like
[18:26:02] <ssi> :)
[18:26:05] <PCW> I might get a bit annoyed for support requests that are not for our boards however
[18:26:11] <ssi> oh understandable
[18:27:48] <ssi> ok now I really am leaving... two hours later :)
[18:30:08] <Jymmm> ssi: want me to kick you out of the channel?
[18:33:33] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxgizmos.com/beaglebone-sbc-goes-oem-com-version-coming/ maybe this will drop the prices?
[18:34:58] <CaptHindsight> but no HDMI
[18:39:40] <kfoltman> so, let me get this straight
[18:39:49] <kfoltman> it's like BBB but no HDMI and no flash
[18:39:54] <kfoltman> and yet it costs exactly the same
[18:42:50] <kfoltman> ah, the RevC is not sustainable at the original price due to component price increases
[18:44:48] <kfoltman> anyway, bedtime for me
[19:23:48] <XXCoder2> whoo
[19:24:19] <XXCoder2> used regular tabsico hot sauce with my caspician hot sauce in my meal
[19:24:28] <XXCoder2> very hot and sweating a lot :D
[19:29:00] <RyanS> *tabasco
[19:29:19] <XXCoder2> thanks lol
[19:30:45] <jdh> beats self-flagellation
[19:30:58] <XXCoder2> lol
[19:32:23] <ssi> lul
[19:32:31] <RyanS> It was a jalapeno salad ?
[19:34:49] <RyanS> did you see the episode of myth busters, one of the guys was tearing up, but the other was saying it's not hot enough
[19:35:20] <XXCoder2> dont think saw that one
[19:35:35] <RyanS> I don't know what they were trying to prove that it was something to do with the hotness scale
[19:36:15] <XXCoder2> lol yeah highest I ever went was over 200k
[19:36:20] <XXCoder2> man it was hot
[19:37:52] <RyanS> I can't eat hot stuff these days, makes me choke
[19:38:16] <XXCoder2> I probably will be still eating em after I am over 100
[19:38:26] <XXCoder2> probably will be immortal via those ;)
[19:38:47] <Jymmm> XXCoder2: What do you mean WHEN ?
[19:39:45] <RyanS> you probably can't taste anything else
[19:39:45] <XXCoder2> ?
[19:39:54] <XXCoder2> RyanS: whatever lol
[19:39:59] <Jymmm> XXCoder2: What do you mean WHEN you are 100
[19:40:11] <RyanS> I think he said after
[19:40:13] <XXCoder2> tasting food wasnt this meal point ;)
[19:40:24] <RyanS> not when
[19:40:27] <Jymmm> RyanS: Am I'm syaing he already iss 100
[19:40:30] <XXCoder2> yeah after lol
[19:40:32] <Jymmm> is*
[19:40:40] <XXCoder2> jy I used future tense
[19:40:52] <Jymmm> XXCoder2: Lies, all Lies
[19:41:08] <Jymmm> XXCoder2: All you cntury oldtimers lies like that
[19:41:09] <RyanS> You are 100 years old?
[19:41:12] <Jymmm> century*
[19:41:25] <Jymmm> I'd say XXCoder2 is 102
[19:41:53] <XXCoder2> well I am around 100 times. ;)
[19:42:05] <Jymmm> lol
[19:42:19] <RyanS> How do you even know how to use a computer. If you are 100, and they didn't have PCs in the Normandy landings
[19:42:36] <XXCoder2> I didnt say 100 yr old, I said 100 times ;)
[19:43:06] <Jymmm> RyanS: See, he's even older than that!
[19:43:15] <XXCoder2> lol
[19:43:24] <XXCoder2> remind me of one secretly immortal person
[19:43:40] <XXCoder2> some lady asked, he said "you first"
[19:43:47] <XXCoder2> lady said she was 23
[19:43:54] <XXCoder2> he said "Hmm 45"
[19:44:04] <XXCoder2> she was surpised hes older than he looks
[19:44:21] <XXCoder2> later point of book he admint he meant hes 45 times older not just 45 years old
[19:44:45] <XXCoder2> 1034 years old
[19:45:06] <jdh> afaik, all immortal people are secret.
[19:45:49] <Jymmm> Yeah, just ask XXCoder2! He isn't a 100 TIMES 100 for nothign =)
[19:45:58] <RyanS> do you still use an overhead line shaft and steam power for machining ? :)
[19:46:22] <XXCoder2> nah I now use barge converted to hime just like that highlander movie. loved the idea so copied it
[19:46:28] <XXCoder2> home
[19:46:51] <Jymmm> =)
[19:47:35] <mozmck> Steam! I have an engine, overhead shafts and pulleys, and machine to hook up.
[19:47:48] <mozmck> but haven't done it yet.
[19:49:22] <XXCoder2> https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/e1d67faa80f006ebe44ec0f01e34b6f7/tumblr_inline_n5wplkhpnt1rp2l9y.png
[19:49:32] <XXCoder2> one of my favorite texts from superheros
[19:55:01] <ssi> what in the world is happening
[19:55:30] <XXCoder2> Where in the World Is Carmen Sandiego?
[19:55:38] <ssi> probably chile
[19:55:42] <ssi> it always seemed to be chile
[19:55:55] <XXCoder2> lol never was that good with that game
[19:56:19] <ssi> https://www.adafruit.com/product/736
[19:57:22] <XXCoder2> interesting
[19:57:40] <XXCoder2> https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9507m1kdM1rvya9ro1_500.jpg
[20:00:48] <LeelooMinai> I need some input on my "idea" for making cheap but decent table for my cnc.
[20:01:09] <XXCoder2> scrap wood
[20:01:16] <Jymmm> styrafoam and duct tape
[20:01:30] <ssi> LeelooMinai: what's the new idea
[20:01:46] <LeelooMinai> I looked at many options, 80/20, mdf + t-slots, aluminum plate + just drilling/tappin holes, etc.
[20:01:57] <LeelooMinai> But except the mdf one they are too expensive
[20:02:07] <XXCoder2> whats you lookinf in sizes and such?
[20:02:21] <LeelooMinai> 500 by 530mm
[20:02:35] <ssi> LeelooMinai: when you say mdf+tslot, are you talking about putting aluminum tslot channel in the mdf? or actually cutting slots in the mdf itself
[20:03:08] <LeelooMinai> That was Connor's setup - he has alimunum slot channels in an mdf board
[20:03:43] <LeelooMinai> No, Jymmm didn't like it, and I can see why, but I found and improvement to this idea:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=52400&cat=3,43576,61994,52400
[20:03:45] <ssi> k just checking
[20:04:03] <LeelooMinai> As you can see those have "wings" on the bottom so they should be better after using screws + epoxy
[20:04:20] <XXCoder2> my my plan is no more complex than simply double tape on surface
[20:04:23] <LeelooMinai> But, still, it's mdf, so I have mixed feelings
[20:04:32] <Jymmm> That is also shown nstalled in 13 layer russian plywood, not MDF
[20:04:35] <ssi> I would certainly do plywood instead of mdf
[20:04:39] <XXCoder2> I saw setups thats surface is 100% 8020
[20:04:51] <ssi> XXCoder2: yeah I've seen similar
[20:04:59] <ssi> http://woodgears.ca/pantorouter/kuldeep/buy.html
[20:05:37] <XXCoder2> LeelooMinai: would simple wood and t-slot channels between em work?
[20:05:46] <XXCoder2> you'd have to level bed once a while but..
[20:05:54] <LeelooMinai> Anyways, my idea is a bit weird I guess. I thought ot using cold rolled steel stripes rised a bit over my main alu table, and with spaces between them - that would effecively form slots. I am not sure though if those cold roled bars could be flat or flattened by me, to have decent flatness
[20:06:17] <jdh> how will you flatten them?
[20:06:37] <ssi> crs is fairly flat
[20:06:47] <ssi> but if you're going to build some structure like that, flatness may go out the window
[20:06:51] <LeelooMinai> well, they may be flat enough I guess - not sure. Otherwise by some kind of abrasive method using router head I will attach at some point anyways
[20:07:01] <LeelooMinai> The thing is, those bars are not too expensive
[20:07:21] <LeelooMinai> And I can get them locally
[20:07:23] <ssi> I think 1/2" or 3/8" thick aluminum plate is probably your best option
[20:07:23] <jdh> I'd go with MDF or MDF over plywood
[20:07:38] <ssi> what's the cost of aluminum plate that size for you?
[20:07:48] <LeelooMinai> ssi: That's much more expensive than those cold rolled flatbars
[20:08:14] <LeelooMinai> o,5 inch plate?
[20:08:25] <XXCoder2> plywood with whatever scrap wood on it to act as surifical wood
[20:08:31] <LeelooMinai> Above $100
[20:08:48] <ssi> ok... and how much is the aluminum t-slot track?
[20:09:02] <LeelooMinai> Ok, but my machine has not a piece of wood on it - I would like to keep it that way kind of:)
[20:09:15] <ssi> then you better not be considering MDF :)
[20:09:22] <ssi> MDF isn't wood; it's WORSE than wood
[20:09:22] <LeelooMinai> ssi: One trace two feet maybe $10
[20:09:27] <LeelooMinai> track*
[20:09:38] <ssi> LeelooMinai: when I bought it here it was more like $20, but ok
[20:09:51] <jdh> http://wilmington.craigslist.org/tls/4500874254.html
[20:09:55] <LeelooMinai> Yes, so even that mdf idea will cost a bit
[20:09:57] <jdh> what do you think that weighs?
[20:09:58] <ssi> yep
[20:10:14] <LeelooMinai> jdh: More than my house? :)
[20:10:15] <ssi> jdh: probably between 2000 and 3000lb
[20:10:27] <ssi> maybe less
[20:10:28] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so no opinion on my "plan"?
[20:10:47] <LeelooMinai> I never had "cold rolled flatbar" in my hand
[20:10:50] <ssi> LeelooMinai: how are you going to mount these CRS bars?
[20:10:51] <jdh> price looks ggod
[20:11:02] <ssi> jdh: that's a very nice lathe
[20:11:09] <jdh> mount them to plywood.
[20:11:20] <LeelooMinai> ssi: With screws - how else?
[20:11:38] <Jymmm> epoxy
[20:11:39] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I'm just trying to get an idea of how you plan to do it
[20:11:56] <ssi> if you started with relatively thick bars, and machined a shoulder on the bottom side
[20:12:05] <XXCoder2> I heard good stuff about carpet double side taoe
[20:12:08] <LeelooMinai> I thought maybe hex scews like I have everywhere, but the thin head kind and just couterboring them.
[20:12:10] <ssi> you can mount it with counterbored cap screws to your undertable
[20:12:19] <ssi> but your undertable isn't big enough!
[20:12:29] <ssi> so you still would need a bigger aluminum plate to mount to the undertable so you can mount the steel to it
[20:13:02] <ssi> also, do you have machining capability to machine a shoulder?
[20:13:16] <LeelooMinai> ssi: I thought the flabars would extend on the Y axis on both sides - shouldn't they be pretty stiff at 0.25 inch?>
[20:13:24] <LeelooMinai> flatbars*
[20:13:27] <ssi> not stiff enough to mount things to
[20:13:39] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: you have access to a mill?
[20:13:46] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: No
[20:14:09] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Oh, I thought you made your machine for some reason
[20:14:25] <mozmck> LeelooMinai: I don't know what is too expensive:
http://www.rockler.com/multi-track-for-jigs-and-custom-fences-multi-track
[20:14:26] <ssi> lol
[20:14:32] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: What do you mean? I did made it, yes
[20:14:40] <mozmck> Jymmm: all you need is a file for that!
[20:14:45] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Then how did you mill it's parts?
[20:14:55] <ssi> hacksaws and files, man
[20:15:05] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: I MacGyvered it with a table router and carbide bits:)
[20:15:30] <LeelooMinai> Like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/10046651986/
[20:15:32] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Then remove your existing table and drill and tap it... FREE
[20:15:50] <ssi> existing "table" isn't big enough
[20:15:54] <ssi> that's the problem we're trying to solve
[20:16:05] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: It's not the full size I want - it's pretty narrow - it was always meant just as a base to attach proper one.
[20:16:11] <mozmck> I think the CNCShark that rockler sells uses that multi-track for it's table.
[20:16:15] <Jymmm> putting a larger table on top of a smaller one is a "solution"?!
[20:16:37] <mozmck> 3" x 36" for about $38
[20:16:46] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Well, what's wrong with doing that? I designed the whole frame with this table getting up by inch or even more.
[20:16:57] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I honestly think your machine deserves for you to suck it up and buy a proper hunk of aluminum for the table... you went to all the trouble and cost to make it so stiff, don't throw out table rigidity
[20:17:20] <ssi> don't necessarily need tooling plate, but get at least 3/8" 6061 plate
[20:17:45] <LeelooMinai> ssi: What if I use two layers of flatbars. the bottom layer a bit narrower, to form slots?
[20:17:47] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: That larger table then becomes a fulcrum lever.
[20:17:48] <ssi> OR just drill a couple holes in the table and mount a vise to it and use it like that for now
[20:18:11] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you can do that but I think you'll have a hard time getting it acceptably flat
[20:18:17] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Well, it would anyways, as I have movable table - I cannot put blocks at the ends obviously.
[20:18:20] <ssi> and you're going to have a very hard time trying to surface a CRS table with a trim router
[20:18:45] <LeelooMinai> Even very slowly?
[20:18:48] <ssi> LeelooMinai: what's the travel on your table? It doesn't look like 500mm from the pictures
[20:18:53] <ssi> yeah even very slowly, it's gonna be tough
[20:18:58] <ssi> much easier to flycut aluminum
[20:19:04] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: nothign is obvious, I only saw one pic and it wasn't too clear to see details to me.
[20:19:06] <mozmck> the router runs too fast
[20:19:07] <LeelooMinai> Y travel is 270mm
[20:19:23] <ssi> LeelooMinai: bear in mind you don't need a table that's significantly longer than your travel
[20:19:33] <LeelooMinai> But I added 80mm on ends for clamping purposes
[20:19:56] <LeelooMinai> Well, I think it should be a bit longer than full travel
[20:20:14] <LeelooMinai> So, as I said, there's room for clamps, no?
[20:20:25] <ssi> why not focus on getting your spindle and electronics going, and use what you have for awhile, and see where it's deficient
[20:20:34] <ssi> then you can revisit a different table when you have some experience and money saved up
[20:21:02] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Well, as of now I cannot even clamp anything properly to try, say, millin alu
[20:21:12] <ssi> I think you'd be very well served by getting a reasonably priced vise and putting a couple tapped holes in the short table to mount the vise down
[20:21:15] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: drill and tap
[20:21:19] <ssi> you're going to want a vise eventually anyway
[20:21:21] <LeelooMinai> I can draw something with a sharpie:)
[20:21:42] <LeelooMinai> Why vise if I would have a nice machinist clamping set?
[20:21:51] <ssi> I have two nice machinists clamping sets
[20:21:52] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: you hve a 1" plate there, just drill at tap it for a couple of clamps
[20:21:54] <ssi> but I still use my vises all the time
[20:22:06] <ssi> clamps are for holding irregular stuff and fixtures
[20:22:08] <ssi> not everyday work
[20:22:09] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: It's only 0.5 inch plate
[20:22:18] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: still enough
[20:22:23] <XXCoder2> ssi really because I constantly use clamps at work
[20:22:31] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... somehow I guess such vises are probably not cheap
[20:22:40] <ssi> they're not cheap, but they don't have to be terribly expensive either
[20:22:44] <ssi> you get what you pay for of course
[20:23:06] <LeelooMinai> Also, vise has smallish span in comparison to full table + clamps
[20:23:09] <XXCoder2> saw one site where someone used hand clamps and changed em into router cnc bed clamps
[20:23:20] <ssi> LeelooMinai: so let me ask you this... do you know what you intend to make on this machine?
[20:23:45] <LeelooMinai> It's not really a machine to do one thing as I said.
[20:23:50] <ssi> understandable...
[20:23:55] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: do you have a piece of MDF scrap 24" long?
[20:23:56] <ssi> but you need to have some goals in mind
[20:24:03] <ssi> if a vise is too small
[20:24:07] <ssi> what's it too small to hold?
[20:24:13] <ssi> I have a 4" vise that does 90% of my work
[20:24:20] <ssi> and that's on a 9x42" bridgeport
[20:24:32] <ssi> occasionally I bust out a 6" vise
[20:24:35] <LeelooMinai> Well, one day my mom may need something done that will require a biggish piece of wood for example - how will I use vise for that?
[20:24:35] <ssi> which btw weighs about 80lb
[20:25:05] <mozmck> note also that a standard bridgeport has a Y travel of only about 9" or so too
[20:25:07] <ssi> well for starters, you can put jaws on the outside of a vise and they'll hold 18" or so
[20:25:25] <ssi> maybe not 18"
[20:25:28] <ssi> but it's bigger than you think
[20:25:40] <LeelooMinai> Hmm..
[20:26:05] <ssi> workholding is one of the most significant challenges in machining btw
[20:26:16] <XXCoder2> ssi: someone here called it dark art
[20:26:17] <ssi> there's a million different ways to fixture things
[20:26:22] <ssi> XXCoder2: that's pretty apt
[20:26:31] <LeelooMinai> I guess a could use a vise - when I was designing the frame I made it a bit high on the z-axis on purpose
[20:26:35] <ssi> LeelooMinai: improper workholding can hurt you
[20:26:43] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: graba book, brick whatever, place a piece of LDF that is longer on each end by 2" on top of the brick, Place your foot on the mdf, then grab each 2" over hang and flex the mdf upward. If you keep doing that over time clamping down aluminum bilet to machine, it''s gonna crack at the worse possible time.
[20:26:53] <Jymmm> MDF*
[20:26:58] <XXCoder2> heh my cnc router design as it stands has only bit less than 3 inches clearance lol
[20:27:04] <LeelooMinai> ssi: I know that - I may have no experience, but when making the frame I found out those basic pretty quickly:)
[20:27:09] <ssi> XXCoder2: well routers are a different design
[20:27:30] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I'm sure you did... I've run aluminum across a router before, and it can be scary
[20:27:45] <ssi> XXCoder2: my plasma cutter only has 2" clearance, but I'd never try to mount a vise to it :P
[20:27:49] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: The clamp kit you want to use exerts a LOT of force.
[20:27:51] <ssi> this little machine she's built is a mill
[20:28:13] <LeelooMinai> ssi: That's that picture with me with the face mask and ear muffs - I was dressed like a medieval knight when doing this
[20:28:27] <ssi> LeelooMinai: very wise :) I'm not that smart
[20:28:31] <ssi> or rather, I am that reckless
[20:28:31] <ssi> heheh
[20:29:17] <LeelooMinai> First I was thinking if I could use the drill press for that somehow, but now after reading a bit I know that would not work
[20:29:54] <LeelooMinai> I guess I should research now the proces of those vise
[20:30:02] <LeelooMinai> prices*
[20:30:20] <ssi> so, there's Kurt, and they're expensive
[20:30:23] <ssi> $1000 or so
[20:30:29] <LeelooMinai> ...
[20:30:29] <ssi> I bought my 4" double kurt on ebay for $250
[20:30:40] <LeelooMinai> Did you miss the part when I was talking $100 or less? :)
[20:30:44] <ssi> i'm getting there
[20:31:03] <ssi> glacern machine tool makes nice vises, but they've come up in price it looks like
[20:31:13] <ssi> $400 now for a 4" :/
[20:31:24] <ssi> shars makes some cheap chinese vises that are ok
[20:31:29] <ssi> they're not great, but they'll probably do for starters
[20:31:53] <ssi> http://www.shars.com/products/view/62/5x5x112quot_Lock_Down_Precision_Milling_Machine_Vise
[20:31:57] <ssi> that might be too big for your machine
[20:32:27] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so the vise would cost the same as a table it seems
[20:32:38] <ssi> for something usable, yes
[20:32:50] <LeelooMinai> It looks nice, that wise
[20:33:36] <ssi> you could realy cheap out in the short term and get a drill press vise
[20:33:36] <ssi> http://www.shars.com/products/view/331/5quot_Horizontal_and_Vertical_Drilling_Press_Vise
[20:33:39] <ssi> somethinhg like that
[20:33:56] <ssi> but don't hold out any great hope of it being repeatable or standing up to at on of abuse
[20:34:16] <LeelooMinai> Ok, that one in comparison to the other looks like T-34 vs some modern tank
[20:34:38] <ssi> lol :D
[20:35:03] <ssi> so with machining, rigidity is your friend, as you obviously know looking at your machine
[20:35:11] <ssi> and rigidity comes with mass, which you also obviously know :)
[20:35:25] <LeelooMinai> Yes, those vises would probably even stiffen the table I have
[20:35:30] <ssi> unfortunately, mass means $$$
[20:36:19] <zeeshan|3> just wanted to through this out there
[20:36:22] <LeelooMinai> Yes, otherwise I would have nice Chinese heavy tools bought by aliexpress
[20:36:23] <zeeshan|3> fak glacern vises!
[20:36:26] <zeeshan|3> too expensive :P
[20:37:00] <ssi> zeeshan|3: they used to be a pretty good value
[20:37:05] <ssi> I recall them having a nice vise for like $250
[20:37:11] <LeelooMinai> Is that one of those "cult" brands that is 20% better than others and costs 5c more?
[20:37:13] <ssi> I was gonna buy one for my little mill
[20:37:15] <ssi> but I guess I missed my shot
[20:37:21] <zeeshan|3> theres so many of those vises on sale
[20:37:21] <LeelooMinai> 5x*
[20:37:22] <zeeshan|3> on kijiji
[20:37:24] <ssi> LeelooMinai: no, that'd be kurt :P
[20:37:27] <zeeshan|3> no oneed to buy that stuff online
[20:37:39] <ssi> kurt vises are very nice, but they're VERY EXPENSIVE
[20:37:44] <XXCoder2> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/30Kg-66-1Lbs-Holding-Capacity-Metal-U-Bar-Vertical-Type-Toggle-Clamp/681636435.html? heh
[20:38:15] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: whats so funny
[20:38:17] <ssi> XXCoder2: for the same money you can buy the self-adjusting bessey toggles :P
[20:38:19] <zeeshan|3> toggle clamps are awesome :D
[20:38:21] <LeelooMinai> I just got a quote from a local guy for aluminum extrusions for my table - $146 with delivery ot so
[20:38:38] <zeeshan|3> what kind of extrusion
[20:38:40] <XXCoder2> zee yeah but just wondering if its even usable with certain setups
[20:38:59] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: i think theyre meant for fixture type of applications
[20:39:03] <zeeshan|3> where you have thje same of something
[20:39:10] <zeeshan|3> at least thats where ive used em :P
[20:39:25] <ssi> yeah and typically woodworking applications
[20:39:33] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hobbies-craft/mississauga-peel-region/aluminum-t-slot-rail-80x20-for-custom-assemblies-new/559243073?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[20:39:33] <ssi> I don't think I'd trust toggle clamps for metal milling
[20:40:02] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, probably will not pay $150 for those
[20:40:10] <zeeshan|3> 9$ a foot seems pretty good
[20:40:23] <zeeshan|3> 8020 is expensive
[20:40:48] <Tom_itx> ssi, they work ok on flat plate etc
[20:40:51] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I guess... But ssi now confused me with that vise idea;)
[20:41:07] <ssi> LeelooMinai: that's what I'm here for ;)
[20:41:10] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: yo uneed to figure out what youre using the machine for
[20:41:15] <ssi> zeeshan|3++
[20:41:27] <ssi> you probably will end up wanting a vise eventually anyway
[20:41:31] <zeeshan|3> theres a reason why most machines hjave t-slot tables
[20:41:35] <ssi> and getting a vise will get you running quicker
[20:41:37] <zeeshan|3> because it allows you to mount vises too
[20:41:42] <zeeshan|3> and do all sorts of fancy stuff
[20:42:08] <mozmck> a simple drill press vise would get you running quickly for very little money.
[20:42:20] <zeeshan|3> drill press vises cheap ones flex
[20:42:20] <zeeshan|3> =/
[20:42:24] <jdh> so, that beautiful, old, real iron lathe is half as much as a chinese router
[20:42:25] <LeelooMinai> For nerdy stuff mostly - expermients, alu millin to make cases for ee projects, maybe some aluminum "robotic" parts and things like that, also maybe pcb routing experimients, cutting acrylic with laser, cutting pcb stencils with laser - you know, regular stuff
[20:42:32] <Tom_itx> a threaded grid pattern on a plate is quite useful too
[20:42:32] <ssi> zeeshan|3: not as much as mdf! :D
[20:42:36] <zeeshan|3> haha
[20:42:38] <zeeshan|3> bloody mdf
[20:42:48] <ssi> jdh: that beautiful lathe may well be worn the hell out
[20:43:07] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: so it sounds like you'll be machining both sheet
[20:43:10] <zeeshan|3> and small components
[20:43:10] <mozmck> ssi: exactly, this is a very small mill/router to start with.
[20:43:16] <zeeshan|3> you want t-slot table for sheet parts
[20:43:23] <zeeshan|3> and vise for smaller components
[20:43:36] <ssi> zeeshan|3++ :)
[20:43:42] <jdh> you want t-slot to hold the mdf down
[20:43:52] <zeeshan|3> where is this mdf coming from
[20:43:54] <zeeshan|3> damn mdf
[20:43:54] <ssi> small stuff is going to be nearly impossible to fixture with machinists clamps
[20:43:54] <mozmck> slap a drill press vise on to play with it, while you are looking for better options for a t-slot table.
[20:44:10] <jdh> small stuff gets screwed down into the mdf
[20:44:27] <zeeshan|3> mdf is bad
[20:44:29] <zeeshan|3> plywood!
[20:44:52] <zeeshan|3> mdf is like asbestos
[20:44:58] <zeeshan|3> lung cancer!
[20:45:00] <LeelooMinai> Are there materials, non-metalic, that would be between mdf and alu and not expensive?
[20:45:24] <ssi> plywood
[20:45:29] <ssi> get mdf out of your head
[20:45:31] <jdh> mdf is better than plywood
[20:45:35] <zeeshan|3> plywood is cheaper than mdf
[20:45:38] <zeeshan|3> jdh no its not
[20:45:41] <zeeshan|3> WTF!
[20:45:48] <ssi> mdf is certainly not better than plywood
[20:45:59] <jdh> I disagree (for this)
[20:46:01] <zeeshan|3> lets make our house floor boards out of mdf
[20:46:03] <zeeshan|3> not plywood
[20:46:04] <ssi> it has no strength whatsoever
[20:46:06] <ssi> it won't hold screws
[20:46:11] <LeelooMinai> I see mdf is a hot topic for debates here:)
[20:46:14] <ssi> it gets ruined if the humidity exceeds 80%
[20:46:18] <ssi> it gives you cancer
[20:46:22] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: because its a carcogenic
[20:46:24] <zeeshan|3> and peole still use it
[20:46:32] <zeeshan|3> its note even cheaper than plywood
[20:46:36] <ssi> it's far more flexible than plywood
[20:46:38] <LeelooMinai> Hmm...
[20:46:45] <ssi> it has compressive strength and that's it
[20:46:49] <zeeshan|3> it's only good purpose is for sound boxes for speakers
[20:46:52] <ssi> it's good for making ikea furniture and countertops
[20:47:03] <ssi> it's not even GOOD for speakers
[20:47:07] <jdh> it's good for making disposable router tops
[20:47:13] <ssi> I make my speakers from 13ply baltic birch ply
[20:47:14] <LeelooMinai> Well, I kind of ruled it out anyways
[20:47:20] <zeeshan|3> ssi: haha
[20:47:27] <zeeshan|3> sounds expensive
[20:47:41] <ssi> it can be
[20:47:45] <ssi> $50-60/sheet
[20:47:51] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/pn28q5p
[20:47:52] <ssi> for chinese imported
[20:47:55] <ssi> $90 for domestic
[20:47:55] <zeeshan|3> 4'x8'?
[20:47:57] <ssi> ya
[20:48:03] <zeeshan|3> that is expensive
[20:48:12] <ssi> yeah
[20:48:21] <zeeshan|3> jdh they're all doing it wrong
[20:48:23] <zeeshan|3> !
[20:48:32] <LeelooMinai> also, wood can be eaten by termites
[20:48:40] <ssi> HAH
[20:48:50] <ssi> LeelooMinai: the moisture is a much more real issue than termites :)
[20:48:55] <jdh> If you can't make it out of decent aluminum. I'd make it out of plywood topped with mdf
[20:49:22] <jdh> I have MDF on mine in my garage for years. It's fine.
[20:49:35] <ssi> if it was a big gantry router designed for cutting shapes out of plywood I would agree
[20:49:38] <ssi> but that's not what this machine is
[20:49:48] <jdh> it isn't anything without a table
[20:50:02] <jdh> and it's not like it has to be permanent, or perfect the first iteration.
[20:50:18] <zeeshan|3> im gonna use mdf on my mill
[20:50:41] <jdh> certainly not for a traditional mill
[20:50:45] <zeeshan|3> jdh
[20:50:51] <LeelooMinai> I read about something called derlin - but I guess that would not be cheap
[20:50:51] <zeeshan|3> does mdf come in 4" round?
[20:51:04] <jdh> delrin is quite pricy. and soft
[20:51:04] <zeeshan|3> i want to make a special cnc dildo for you
[20:51:07] <zeeshan|3> mr mdf lover
[20:51:12] <ssi> LeelooMinai: delrin isn't what you want
[20:51:14] <zeeshan|3> =D
[20:51:28] <jdh> delrin is my almost-favorite material
[20:51:29] <zeeshan|3> whats wrong with delrin
[20:51:33] <LeelooMinai> I also saw people using granite and some kind of resin to make frames - not sure if a table could be made like that
[20:51:34] <ssi> delrin is awesome
[20:51:38] <ssi> but it's not rigid at all
[20:51:39] <zeeshan|3> i luf delrin
[20:51:57] <ssi> LeelooMinai: granite isn't going to be good for putting tslots or holes in
[20:52:07] <ssi> it's good for flat surfaces, and good for machine bases
[20:52:17] <jdh> pour teh granite then screw down teh t-slots to it.
[20:52:17] <zeeshan|3> it's also good for breaking on people's head
[20:52:18] <LeelooMinai> ssi: I would assume they would have to be embedded during the forming of it
[20:52:19] <ssi> and it CAN be tslotted, i've seen granite topped table saws
[20:52:23] <jdh> then put the MDF on top of teh T-slots
[20:52:36] <ssi> LeelooMinai: jdh REALLY wants you to use MDF :)
[20:52:57] <jdh> it doesn't matter what I want. It *will* have MDF on it at some point.
[20:53:01] <ssi> btw have we ever had this dramatic of an argument over how to design someone else's machine before?
[20:53:11] <zeeshan|3> no
[20:53:13] <zeeshan|3> im trollin
[20:53:16] <ssi> :)
[20:53:18] <jdh> there's no drama, you are just snobs with no budget constraints
[20:53:25] <LeelooMinai> Well, at least it's obvious that everyone has own idea about those things:)
[20:53:26] <zeeshan|3> jdh is mad
[20:53:45] <zeeshan|3> i bet jdh is related to the inventor mdf
[20:53:48] <ssi> jdh: you're just a cheapskate who can't afford to buy a nice preconverted lathe ;)
[20:53:57] <jdh> I am cheap.
[20:54:01] <jdh> hence the MDF.
[20:54:04] <LeelooMinai> I was waiting for someone saying that the only good tables are made from titnoum or something like that
[20:54:14] <LeelooMinai> titanium*
[20:54:14] <jdh> cast iron
[20:54:18] <Tom_itx> yup
[20:54:20] <zeeshan|3> cast iron win
[20:54:20] <zeeshan|3> !
[20:54:21] <Tom_itx> good ole iron
[20:54:26] <Jymmm> diamond
[20:54:32] <Tom_itx> pfft
[20:54:38] <zeeshan|3> diamond has no dampening
[20:54:44] <zeeshan|3> or little dampening
[20:54:44] <zeeshan|3> ;p
[20:54:54] <LeelooMinai> Drilling holes in diamond could be problematic
[20:55:08] <ssi> cast iron absolutely is the right answer
[20:55:10] <ssi> but not for your machine :)
[20:55:20] <jdh> just grow the diamond around the holes
[20:55:25] <LeelooMinai> Well, my table moves
[20:55:30] <LeelooMinai> Cannot be too huge
[20:55:31] <ssi> so does mine!
[20:55:31] <jdh> what are your table dims?
[20:55:35] <Jymmm> jdh: not a bad idea acutally
[20:55:43] <LeelooMinai> The table should be 500x520 or so
[20:55:45] <LeelooMinai> mm
[20:55:50] <LeelooMinai> 530*
[20:55:51] <ssi> and I dunno what the table on a bridgie weighs, but I did have it off once and it's a lot
[20:55:55] <ssi> more than I can lift on my own
[20:56:02] <zeeshan|3> abot 250lb
[20:56:05] <zeeshan|3> you weakling
[20:56:07] <ssi> sounds about right
[20:56:09] <zeeshan|3> jk
[20:56:15] <zeeshan|3> it weighs twice what i weigh
[20:56:21] <ssi> lol you weigh 125?
[20:56:25] <zeeshan|3> close
[20:56:26] <zeeshan|3> 140
[20:56:30] <Jymmm> wet
[20:56:32] <ssi> speaking of weaklings :D
[20:56:34] <zeeshan|3> haha
[20:56:41] <jdh> same as my left leg.
[20:56:44] <ssi> jdh: :)
[20:56:47] <zeeshan|3> hahah
[20:57:04] <zeeshan|3> people like me is the reason breaker bars were invented
[20:57:10] <zeeshan|3> *why
[20:57:20] <ssi> still gotta have mass to apply to the end of the breaker bar!
[20:57:22] <LeelooMinai> What does it matter if he is skinny if his steppers have high torque
[20:57:24] <zeeshan|3> haha
[20:57:27] <ssi> LeelooMinai: :D
[20:57:42] <ssi> LeelooMinai: it's all about rigidity, remember?
[20:58:15] <zeeshan|3> to be honest, the only bolt i've ever had issues loosening was the flywheel single nut that is torqued to 320ft-lb
[20:58:24] <zeeshan|3> i had to use a 4 foot rod on my breaker bar
[20:58:35] <Jymmm> ssi: Sorry dude, blue pills don't work on MDF, m'kay!
[20:58:39] <ssi> ugh I had to take upper balljoints out of a dodge pickup front end once, and they're threaded in
[20:58:44] <ssi> like 1600lb/ft
[20:58:49] <zeeshan|3> lol
[20:58:53] <ssi> took a ten foot bar and two dudes
[20:58:53] <XXCoder2> one thing I'm not buying is mdf. its not free.
[20:58:54] <ssi> sucked
[20:59:01] <XXCoder2> I can get pretty lot wood for free but not that
[20:59:08] <jdh> XX: you will
[20:59:22] <XXCoder2> nope. nonfree wood? no buy lol
[20:59:28] <ssi> XXCoder2: it's not nearly cheap enough for what it is
[20:59:44] <XXCoder2> flying mdf board?
[21:00:04] <zeeshan|3> you cant even use mdf
[21:00:07] <zeeshan|3> for a camp fire :[
[21:00:14] <ssi> nor would you want to
[21:00:24] <ssi> ugh breathing burning mdf vapor sounds miserable
[21:00:59] <XXCoder2> well I just finally opened my trim router
[21:01:09] <zeeshan|3> if i only had 25 bux to spend ona table
[21:01:11] <XXCoder2> its bit smaller than I expected so I am revising design
[21:01:19] <zeeshan|3> i'd just go grab some spruce plywood 3/4" thick
[21:01:21] <zeeshan|3> and call it a day
[21:01:28] <jdh> that would work
[21:01:35] <zeeshan|3> drill holes all over it
[21:01:36] <jdh> but, get some MDF to put on top of it.
[21:01:41] <zeeshan|3> lol jdh
[21:01:41] <zeeshan|3> die
[21:01:56] <jdh> you want to cut in to your nice plywood?
[21:02:04] <zeeshan|3> its only 25 bux
[21:02:07] <XXCoder2> I can get expensive plywood for free
[21:02:08] <zeeshan|3> once i cut into it
[21:02:14] <zeeshan|3> i'll turn it into a shelf inthe shop
[21:02:15] <zeeshan|3> :D
[21:02:28] <XXCoder2> thing is it wont be larger than foot across unless I get failed cut ones meaning it will be damaged and still bit small
[21:03:27] <ssi> I think I'm gonna be builiding a pick and place machine here soon with a friend
[21:04:07] <jdh> I'm paying someone to take out a pick and place machine
[21:04:18] <ssi> eh?
[21:04:19] <jdh> and replace it with a 6-axis ABB
[21:04:20] <zeeshan|3> jdh all this time you spend on irc
[21:04:24] <zeeshan|3> you'd be done your lathe
[21:04:26] <ssi> bring me the machine they take out :)
[21:04:46] <ssi> zeeshan|3: yeah I could have been rewiring the plasma table tonight :P
[21:04:47] <jdh> it is an odd little system for specific parts.
[21:05:01] <zeeshan|3> do it!
[21:05:09] <zeeshan|3> irc is for people done with their projects
[21:05:11] <zeeshan|3> :)
[21:05:11] <ssi> heh
[21:05:17] <ssi> or stuck on their projects
[21:05:18] <zeeshan|3> no one would be here
[21:05:20] <jdh> I can not seem to solve teh X problem
[21:05:22] <zeeshan|3> if that was the case lol
[21:05:27] <zeeshan|3> jdh do it ghetto like me
[21:05:27] <zeeshan|3> it works
[21:05:29] <ssi> I still don't have the parts I need to decouple the ohmic line :/
[21:05:39] <ssi> pcw said use optos, but I gotta figure out which optos and order them
[21:05:43] <jdh> though it is currently c-clamped in place and would 'work' if I drilled and tapped 2 holes
[21:05:45] <ssi> was thinking maybe a PAIR of relays would work
[21:05:49] <ssi> decouple the line and the ground
[21:05:52] <ssi> or a dpst relay
[21:05:59] <zeeshan|3> jdh ball screw outside of table?
[21:06:01] <ssi> but I don't have any relays, or any field voltage with which to run them
[21:06:02] <zeeshan|3> (towards chuck?)
[21:06:10] <jdh> yeah.
[21:06:11] <jdh> suckage
[21:06:14] <zeeshan|3> works
[21:06:18] <zeeshan|3> just put a cover on it
[21:06:29] <jdh> won't be able to work near the chuck
[21:06:34] <zeeshan|3> yep
[21:06:39] <zeeshan|3> or if you have a large work piece
[21:06:45] <zeeshan|3> which isnt too likely though?
[21:06:56] <zeeshan|3> actually nm
[21:07:00] <zeeshan|3> it is likely :p
[21:07:05] <zeeshan|3> with a 4 jaw chuck and an odd shaped part
[21:07:29] <zeeshan|3> ssi waiting for parts is a good excuse
[21:07:41] <ssi> I haven't ordered any parts!
[21:10:05] <XXCoder2> lol
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aluminium-Body-High-Speed-Jet-Hand-Dryer-7-10s-Fast-Dry/755050216.html
[21:10:14] <XXCoder2> should replace towel :P
[21:10:40] <zeeshan|3> theyre that expensive?
[21:10:43] <XXCoder2> appeared when I was looking at 8020 list
[21:10:44] <zeeshan|3> next time im at the restaurant
[21:10:45] <zeeshan|3> im robbing it
[21:10:49] <zeeshan|3> :]
[21:10:53] <XXCoder2> zeeshan|3: more. this is chininse ripoff
[21:15:02] <XXCoder2> man
[21:15:10] <XXCoder2> not sure if that design is stable
[21:15:44] <XXCoder2> 90 mm height secured by Z axis bearing blocks
[21:16:26] <XXCoder2> then router secure plate goes below it by 158 mm approx
[21:16:29] <XXCoder2> thats half foot
[21:16:36] <XXCoder2> wouldnt it move while cutting
[21:16:47] <XXCoder2> unless I make it real thick
[21:19:38] <XXCoder2> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cncplm.png
[21:24:15] <XXCoder2> CaptHindsight?
[21:28:23] <LeelooMinai> I am calculating deflections of the table in extreme positions. What would be some resonable maximum force to assume for milling aluminum?
[21:28:42] <XXCoder2> 6000N
[21:28:43] <XXCoder2> jk
[21:28:50] <LeelooMinai> I mean from the top
[21:29:11] <LeelooMinai> when the endmill goes down
[21:29:22] <XXCoder2> joking (in case you didnt know what jk is)
[21:29:35] <LeelooMinai> Amd what deflection could one tolerate?
[21:32:34] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: how are you calculating deflections?
[21:32:43] <zeeshan|3> how are you treating the table
[21:32:51] <LeelooMinai> Just with this:
http://www.botlanta.org/converters/dale-calc/bending.html
[21:33:15] <zeeshan|3> so as a cantilevered beam
[21:33:22] <zeeshan|3> i dont think thats a reasonable model
[21:33:23] <LeelooMinai> I assume force is applied at the edge, and the pivot will be close to the edge of the current table
[21:33:28] <zeeshan|3> you want to treat it like a simply supported beam
[21:33:31] <LeelooMinai> So, the "trampoline" case
[21:33:52] <LeelooMinai> I have no idea what forces are involved though when milling
[21:33:59] <zeeshan|3> well theres 3 main ones
[21:34:10] <zeeshan|3> tangential, radial, and axial forces
[21:34:24] <zeeshan|3> depending on the orientation of the tool
[21:34:26] <zeeshan|3> and it's movement
[21:34:33] <zeeshan|3> one of them is typicalled called a 'feed force'
[21:34:33] <LeelooMinai> For now I look at downwards force
[21:35:20] <LeelooMinai> Or maybe upwards I guess if the millend can cause it (?)
[21:35:54] <zeeshan|3> in my bok they use
[21:35:58] <LeelooMinai> So maybe that's the "axial" one
[21:36:08] <zeeshan|3> feed force (in the case drilling, its the force pointing downwards)
[21:36:40] <zeeshan|3> found the same formula online
[21:36:42] <LeelooMinai> Any ideas what that is in some very wide approximation?
[21:36:45] <zeeshan|3> http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-gb/knowledge/drilling/formulas_and_definitions/formulas/pages/default.aspx
[21:37:08] <zeeshan|3> if you tell me the largest end mill you'll be running
[21:37:11] <zeeshan|3> it'll help :P
[21:37:20] <LeelooMinai> Diameter?
[21:37:22] <zeeshan|3> yea
[21:37:50] <LeelooMinai> Well, I will for now pobably use some small handheld router with 1/4 endmills - I think
[21:38:12] <LeelooMinai> NOt sure if the bit end can exceed 1/4 then - probably not (?)
[21:38:42] <XXCoder2> zeeshan|3: think that router assembly would stand up to cutting?
[21:38:52] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: which one
[21:38:59] <XXCoder2> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cncplm.png
[21:39:04] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: assume you're cutting aluminum..
[21:39:11] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[21:39:21] <LeelooMinai> 6061-T6
[21:39:35] <zeeshan|3> so typically the surface feet per minute rating is 300
[21:39:43] <zeeshan|3> but on your machine you probably dont wanna go that fast
[21:39:45] <zeeshan|3> i'd do 100..
[21:40:17] <XXCoder2> zee everything brown is a type of wood. in my design plywood will be used to use parts for holding router
[21:40:25] <zeeshan|3> and the tool feed recommended based on the charts on the low end is 0.005 inches/tooth , lets assume 2 flute end mill (2 teeth)
[21:40:31] <zeeshan|3> so roughly 0.002 inches/rev
[21:41:26] <zeeshan|3> i need the power density of aluminum
[21:41:48] <zeeshan|3> sec XXCoder2
[21:43:41] <zeeshan|3> http://www.kennametal.com/en/resources/calculators/holemaking-calculators/torque-thrust-power.html
[21:43:42] <zeeshan|3> there
[21:43:47] <zeeshan|3> rather than manually calculating
[21:44:09] <zeeshan|3> cutting speed iis 100sfm, depth of hole is irrelevant, thats to calculate time of cut inthat calculator
[21:44:14] <zeeshan|3> feed is 0.002 inches/rev
[21:44:52] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, 70 lbs
[21:44:53] <zeeshan|3> use material "autmotive aluminum si>12%"
[21:45:05] <LeelooMinai> That's 35kg - that sounds high
[21:45:13] <zeeshan|3> no,i t sounds about right
[21:45:19] <LeelooMinai> A, right, that was for steel
[21:45:19] <zeeshan|3> it should be close to 50lb
[21:45:26] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: do you have a bathroom scale?
[21:45:50] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[21:46:02] <zeeshan|3> take a piece of wood and put a piece of aluminum on it
[21:46:05] <LeelooMinai> For alu it seems to be 15 only
[21:46:05] <zeeshan|3> and drill a 1/4" hole
[21:46:08] <zeeshan|3> and read the scale
[21:46:15] <zeeshan|3> you'll get a practical idea of what the force is like
[21:46:26] <zeeshan|3> (the wood piece is so you dont drill into your scale!)
[21:46:51] <zeeshan|3> yea it says 17lb for me
[21:46:52] <LeelooMinai> Right, I need just a rough idea though - my mom is asleep so I better not drill now:)
[21:46:57] <zeeshan|3> seems kinda small, but i msotly cut in steel
[21:47:22] <zeeshan|3> you have 2 rails on each side of your table right?
[21:47:37] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[21:47:48] <zeeshan|3> http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/education/calc-init/static-beam/img/simple.gif
[21:47:54] <zeeshan|3> thats the type of model you should use
[21:47:57] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, with 0.188 steel flatbars it's 18 mil deflection - that's not very good
[21:48:13] <zeeshan|3> for worst case scenario, the forc would be right in the middle
[21:48:33] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: I was computing something else - using flatbars perpendicular to the current table
[21:48:43] <LeelooMinai> they would extend about 6 inches
[21:48:53] <zeeshan|3> ah
[21:49:16] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I will try with 0.5 inch alu flatbars
[21:49:34] <zeeshan|3> if you're trying to design for stiffness
[21:49:41] <zeeshan|3> a solid piece of metal is a waste of material
[21:49:43] <LeelooMinai> 2 mil - better, but that's to high, right?
[21:49:59] <XXCoder2> LeelooMinai:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aluminum-Profile-Extrusion-30150B/1036596308.html
[21:50:16] <XXCoder2> 18 bucks per meter. too damn bad shipping is all kinds of insane
[21:50:17] <zeeshan|3> 2 mil is very little deflection for your machine
[21:50:19] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I considered those - it would cost $140 or so
[21:50:33] <LeelooMinai> From local guy
[21:50:37] <zeeshan|3> http://engineering-references.sbainvent.com/strength_of_materials/pictures/deflection_equations_simply_supported_beam.jpg
[21:50:51] <zeeshan|3> vmax = -pl^3/48EI
[21:51:01] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I just use this:
http://www.botlanta.org/converters/dale-calc/bending.html
[21:51:04] <zeeshan|3> vmax like you know is the deflection, p is your force, l is the length
[21:51:18] <zeeshan|3> im trying to explain something using the formula
[21:51:19] <zeeshan|3> !!!
[21:51:34] <LeelooMinai> That's using this formula
[21:51:36] <zeeshan|3> e is your modulus of elasticity (ie how elastic the material is)
[21:51:44] <zeeshan|3> they're all similar
[21:51:50] <zeeshan|3> the point im trying to make is I is on the bottom
[21:51:53] <zeeshan|3> it's your moment of inertia
[21:52:11] <zeeshan|3> moment of inertia for example a square tube 1/8" thick 1x1"
[21:52:11] <LeelooMinai> I know what you mean
[21:52:19] <zeeshan|3> will outperform a 3/8" flat bar
[21:52:24] <zeeshan|3> (very generlized comparison)
[21:52:24] <LeelooMinai> That's why with the same mass sqwuare tube is better than solid
[21:52:34] <zeeshan|3> yes
[21:52:39] <zeeshan|3> so why not look at square sections?
[21:52:42] <zeeshan|3> theyre very cheaap
[21:52:49] <LeelooMinai> I am just trying to balance cost of all of this
[21:53:01] <zeeshan|3> i bet 1" x1" square bar
[21:53:06] <LeelooMinai> Because square section will not give me t-slots
[21:53:07] <zeeshan|3> (tube i mean)
[21:53:09] <zeeshan|3> .125 thick
[21:53:19] <zeeshan|3> technically they can
[21:53:23] <LeelooMinai> Unless it had very thick walls
[21:53:25] <zeeshan|3> if you mill em out :p
[21:53:29] <LeelooMinai> And I could cut into them
[21:53:50] <LeelooMinai> But that would weaken them too
[21:54:08] <zeeshan|3> yea :p
[21:54:26] <zeeshan|3> thiis where fea analysis is useful
[21:54:31] <zeeshan|3> try different combinations and see the effects
[21:54:42] <LeelooMinai> Maybe I should just steel some railroad tracks
[21:54:52] <zeeshan|3> if you know a cheap source for those let me know!
[21:54:57] <zeeshan|3> i've been looking for some
[21:55:22] <zeeshan|3> they 're a good hunk of metal
[21:55:24] <zeeshan|3> to shape sheet on
[21:55:27] <LeelooMinai> I think all there were available for free has been already sold on the scrapyards:)
[21:55:36] <zeeshan|3> =/
[21:56:23] <LeelooMinai> All that CNC stuff is pretty expensive
[21:56:28] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: you have too much patience
[21:56:34] <zeeshan|3> youve been at this problem for a while lol
[21:56:51] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, I try to consider all the options
[21:56:56] <LeelooMinai> Including weird ones
[21:57:04] <zeeshan|3> that's good
[21:57:07] <zeeshan|3> thats how new idea come about
[21:57:11] <zeeshan|3> *ideas
[21:57:15] <LeelooMinai> Or madness
[21:58:18] <zeeshan|3> a lot of the stuff that ive done for my conversion
[21:58:20] <zeeshan|3> i make on the fly
[21:58:28] <zeeshan|3> but one thing i spent some time on was this
[21:58:50] <zeeshan|3> http://imgur.com/a/aRSsI
[21:58:58] <zeeshan|3> i was limited to how i could mount the bracket
[21:59:12] <zeeshan|3> did so many iterations
[21:59:32] <zeeshan|3> angle iron, solid steel, aluminum , single solid piece
[21:59:42] <zeeshan|3> welded connection vs bolted
[21:59:42] <zeeshan|3> etc
[21:59:55] <zeeshan|3> worked out in the end
[22:00:31] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: about your bracket
[22:00:35] <zeeshan|3> i think it'll be great
[22:00:38] <zeeshan|3> for milling
[22:01:02] <XXCoder2> even with just 90 mm secured area wit over 150mm board below it
[22:01:30] <zeeshan|3> ??
[22:01:37] <XXCoder2> look at picture
[22:01:40] <zeeshan|3> i am
[22:01:43] <zeeshan|3> i see 2 boards
[22:01:49] <zeeshan|3> horizontal, and 2 vertical
[22:01:49] <zeeshan|3> er
[22:01:51] <zeeshan|3> one vertical
[22:01:58] <XXCoder2> the bearing blocks for Z axis
[22:02:08] <zeeshan|3> oh i see now
[22:02:23] <zeeshan|3> yea thats quite a bit of cantilevering
[22:02:33] <zeeshan|3> are you planning to mill aluminum?
[22:02:34] <zeeshan|3> or just wood
[22:03:02] <XXCoder2> yeah and im not sure. if I make bearing blocks take more space the board would have to be longer to reach surface
[22:03:09] <XXCoder2> stonger but longer board too
[22:03:29] <zeeshan|3> worst comes to worse
[22:03:37] <zeeshan|3> to make your setup rigid in its current design
[22:03:44] <zeeshan|3> just throw 2 gussets on the sides
[22:04:15] <XXCoder2> gusset is a unknown term to me a sec
[22:04:19] <zeeshan|3> http://image.rodandcustommagazine.com/f/techarticles/1212rc_notso_special_rollcage_build/39600968/1212rc-23%2Bsections-of-rollcage-structure%2Bgusset.jpg
[22:04:20] <zeeshan|3> like that
[22:04:25] <zeeshan|3> a triangular piece
[22:04:42] <XXCoder2> hmm
[22:04:52] <XXCoder2> not sure how do it
[22:04:55] <Tom_itx> support
[22:05:11] <XXCoder2> I'm fine with losing height its already over 6 inches I'm fine with 3 inches or so
[22:05:40] <XXCoder2> I doubt I will ever mill anything bigger than 3 inches. 4 inches would be nice but not required
[22:05:56] <zeeshan|3> what if you wanna make a boobie out of foam?
[22:05:57] <zeeshan|3> =D
[22:06:02] <XXCoder2> lol
[22:06:03] <zeeshan|3> 3" boobs are too small
[22:06:15] <XXCoder2> layers and glue man. :P
[22:06:20] <zeeshan|3> good idea
[22:06:21] <zeeshan|3> haha
[22:06:45] <zeeshan|3> im impressed by the "stack and glue method"
[22:07:02] <zeeshan|3> mythbusters made a frigging huge ass sphere like that
[22:07:06] <zeeshan|3> first ti'me i've seen metal being worked like that
[22:09:26] <XXCoder2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gusset_plate
[22:09:27] <XXCoder2> still cant figure how to use that idea in my cnc
[22:09:27] <XXCoder2> actually I might. trangle that connects router holder to top of router plate
[22:09:27] <XXCoder2> would be hella rigid
[22:10:04] <XXCoder2> heh layers eh
[22:10:52] <XXCoder2> maxamium sphere anyone with alum milling machine is its shortest distance thats not z
[22:12:10] <zeeshan|3> yes
[22:12:13] <zeeshan|3> but they were trying to be cheap
[22:12:24] <zeeshan|3> i think the sphere was like 16" in diameter
[22:12:40] <zeeshan|3> and it was cheaper to get it cut from sections of 1/2" plate on their water jet or something
[22:12:41] <XXCoder2> oh thats small. I'd think it'd be 16 feet ;)
[22:12:50] <zeeshan|3> rather than out of a huge chunk of steel
[22:13:08] <XXCoder2> hows they get it stay together? carpet tape? lol
[22:13:47] <zeeshan|3> welded
[22:13:56] <zeeshan|3> along the outside
[22:14:07] <zeeshan|3> (it was a while ago that i saw this episode)!
[22:14:13] <zeeshan|3> i dont even remember what it was for
[22:14:59] <XXCoder2> ow
[22:15:05] <XXCoder2> I was thinking internal bolts
[22:15:09] <XXCoder2> both directons
[22:15:19] <XXCoder2> only last layers top and bottom only inwards
[22:15:35] <XXCoder2> easy to do I would think
[22:18:46] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: buy me 2000oz-in steppers
[22:18:49] <zeeshan|3> for te mill
[22:18:50] <zeeshan|3> ;[
[22:19:24] <XXCoder2> sure, pay me million bucks
[22:19:27] <zeeshan|3> lol
[22:19:31] <zeeshan|3> im confused about these steppers
[22:19:37] <zeeshan|3> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/stepper-motors/nema-34-missing-information
[22:19:44] <zeeshan|3> theyre 8.8A per phase
[22:19:58] <zeeshan|3> but they dont sell any stepper driver that goes up that high in 32bit dsp
[22:20:20] <XXCoder2> wow
[22:20:26] <XXCoder2> they sell controllers?
[22:20:32] <zeeshan|3> no
[22:20:38] <XXCoder2> I saw one kit where each motor has its own power source
[22:20:39] <zeeshan|3> well they sell cnc4pc stuff
[22:20:40] <XXCoder2> maybe thats it?
[22:20:52] <zeeshan|3> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-kl-8070d-heat-sink-is-included
[22:20:56] <zeeshan|3> thats the driver i like
[22:21:01] <zeeshan|3> cause it makes the steppers run "cool"
[22:21:10] <zeeshan|3> how it does that, i dont know, its apparently some fancy algorithm stuff.
[22:21:25] <zeeshan|3> but with those 8.8 steppers you gotta use this:
[22:21:39] <zeeshan|3> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/kl-11080-stepper-drive
[22:21:50] <zeeshan|3> still maxes out at 8A
[22:22:42] <zeeshan|3> wow
[22:22:45] <zeeshan|3> theres a built in power supply?
[22:22:48] <zeeshan|3> what
[22:23:12] <XXCoder2> motor itself has power spource?
[22:23:16] <XXCoder2> it plugs in?
[22:23:17] <zeeshan|3> stepper driver
[22:23:22] <zeeshan|3> has the power supply leads in it
[22:23:29] <zeeshan|3> 110v ac inlet
[22:24:09] <XXCoder2> wow
[22:24:12] <XXCoder2> guess thats how.
[22:24:45] <zeeshan|3> thats kind of cool
[22:24:51] <zeeshan|3> cause then you dont need an external toroidal supply
[22:32:00] <XXCoder2> probably>
[23:35:57] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, skip tslots, skip additional plates, make the existingplate a fixture plate with tapped holes and doweled holes
http://tinyurl.com/noyv6ja
[23:36:21] <XXCoder2> tj yeah saw pcs of one guy who did that
[23:36:28] <tjtr33> your design will get wores with extended surfaces, its at its best right now
[23:36:30] <XXCoder2> used cnc to make holes to add bolts to bed lol
[23:36:31] <tjtr33> worse
[23:36:50] <ssi> tjtr33: that's what I've been suggesting all night
[23:36:57] <tjtr33> good thinkin
[23:37:02] <ssi> well it's not working :)
[23:40:51] <XXCoder2> found it
[23:40:52] <XXCoder2> http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-CNC-router/step13/The-cutting-bed/
[23:41:58] <ssi> lol not bad
[23:44:47] <tjtr33> hokay best of luck! bye
[23:55:20] <PetefromTn_> evening folks.
[23:55:25] <XXCoder2> hey
[23:55:27] <ssi> eve'n pete
[23:55:29] <XXCoder2> night
[23:55:43] <PetefromTn_> night, morning, what have you..LOL
[23:56:16] <PetefromTn_> I am about to throw my net connected blu ray player out the freakin' window...
[23:56:54] <PetefromTn_> LG POS...
[23:57:55] <ssi> lul
[23:58:13] <PetefromTn_> lul?
[23:58:19] <ssi> lul
[23:59:19] <PetefromTn_> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lul According to this either you are laughing with me or calling me a penis? I trust it is the former...
[23:59:33] <ssi> :)
[23:59:42] <ssi> I'm no dutchie, so I suppose you're right
