#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-06-09

[00:24:11] <maZer`-> :D
[02:03:37] <Deejay> moin
[02:06:51] <maZer`-> moin :D
[09:08:14] <jdh> any stepper experts around?
[09:08:29] <archivist> just ask the real question :)
[09:08:33] <jdh> I have an ancient system that drives a stepper with CW/CCW pulses with a common ground.
[09:09:28] <jdh> I want to replace it with a Compumotor Zeta drive that will accept cw/ccw and has built in optos, will the common ground screw up anything?
[09:10:41] <archivist> doubt it
[09:10:42] <pcw_home> if the OPTOs have a common anode it might
[09:11:44] <pcw_home> are the signals 5V
[09:12:20] <jdh> I haven't measured, but the old drive (TBM105) says it uses 5v
[09:12:52] <jdh> http://www.parkermotion.com/manuals/ZETA/ZETA_Rev_A_Entire.pdf
[09:13:15] <jdh> that is the Zeta manual. P 21 has the wiring info
[09:13:31] <jdh> it does not appear to be common anode, but I'm not sure it would be shown that way.
[09:14:53] <pcw_home> they are differential so you can wire however you like
[09:15:05] <jdh> cool
[09:15:21] <pcw_home> so you should be able to make it completely compatible
[09:15:49] <jdh> someone in the past put a boost transformer on the old TBM105 to fix some problem. It's just kind of hanging off there.
[09:18:24] <jdh> this drive is massive
[10:05:43] <Loetmichel> *gnah* *plug the ventilator in, switch it on... MUCH better...* ... i have this fan hanging above my deskl 2 years now... simply forgot it was there until now ;-)
[11:07:47] <CaptHindsight> anyone have a bug-free touchscreen only setup with on-screen keyboard (no physical keyboard or mouse)?
[11:09:54] <jdh> let me know if such a thing exists.
[11:10:28] <jdh> (generic, not linuxcnc)
[11:12:04] <cradek> onscreen keyboards suck.
[11:19:33] <CaptHindsight> I'll lower the bar to usable :)
[11:21:23] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately Unity on 12.04 is giving me the best results
[11:22:29] <CaptHindsight> i haven't tried building a system using Linuxcnc and 14.04 yet, I did verify that 3.4.55 RTAI works with it
[11:23:24] <Jymmm> Unity being what?
[11:23:32] <CaptHindsight> that as far as I've gotten
[11:23:36] <pcw_home> unity on 14.04 is a bit less annoying (it allows you to put menus in the window decorations)
[11:24:03] <CaptHindsight> unity is the ubuntu gnome3 desktop for 12.04 and 14.04
[11:24:09] <Jymmm> ah
[11:24:49] <CaptHindsight> has anyone build RTAI or linuxcnc for 14.04 yet?
[11:25:22] <pcw_home> I think there are some tcl dependency issues
[11:26:47] <CaptHindsight> I can't launch Linuxcnc from the launcher in 12.04. It launches fine from a desktop icon though
[11:27:27] <CaptHindsight> there must be some launcher-foo I'm missing
[11:28:08] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I doubt it's you.
[11:29:17] <CaptHindsight> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/04/13/1454215/the-gnome-foundation-is-running-out-of-money looks like the people have voted :)
[11:30:35] <CaptHindsight> I couldn't launch Linuxcnc using the touchscreen in Xubuntu 12.04 (XFCE)
[11:31:02] <CaptHindsight> only using the mouse or from command line
[11:40:49] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdBLjj66vAo
[11:52:23] <maZer`-> hi all :D
[12:05:33] <IchGuckLive> hi B)
[12:06:12] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: have you found a touchscreen that works well with linuxcnc?
[12:07:18] <IchGuckLive> no sorry
[12:07:20] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obE--tDwiAs
[12:09:44] <Jymmm> That's really sad. Google kybd for andriod works pretty good and not app specific even.
[12:10:17] <CaptHindsight> yeah, why is "onboard" for unity so buggy?
[12:10:59] <Jymmm> ve7it: Howdy!
[12:11:15] <CaptHindsight> hmmm .... maybe an Android port for Linuxcnc
[12:13:19] <CaptHindsight> a temporary fix for when the onscreen keyboard doesn't autoomatically pop up is to have a desktop icon for onboard that may be pressed to bring it up
[12:14:02] <CaptHindsight> so far that works with everything in Axis such as entering a MDI
[12:16:47] <CaptHindsight> I tried Linux Mint Cinnamon to see if the touschscreen would be any better.... the onboard keyboard looks like it's from the 90's
[12:19:42] <CaptHindsight> has anyone tried to use Debian Sid with Linuxcnc? I'm wondering if it just works or what the problems might be
[12:26:59] <CaptHindsight> or maybe Debian Testing, the kernel is up to 3.13
[12:37:49] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: maliit.org
[12:41:34] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what you need is a swipe keyboard.
[12:43:28] <cradek> CaptHindsight: use touchy, not AXIS
[12:48:30] <Jymmm> Great... source code for google keyboard is not available http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/2/
[12:48:55] <ssi> google has a really funny definition of "open"
[12:54:41] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/search?q=open == Fuck You
[13:11:51] <Jymmm> If you want to search google images directly, this is the format (Yes, you must have 'www' for it to work): https://www.google.com/images?q=bunny
[13:23:58] <CaptHindsight> I was thinking about using a custom gmoccapy
[13:24:02] <IchGuckLive> its sahara hot here in germany
[13:24:07] <IchGuckLive> loe
[13:24:25] <IchGuckLive> Cylly: are you melting out there
[13:24:37] <CaptHindsight> touchy lacks the graphical preview
[13:24:53] <IchGuckLive> i see some hevy thunderstorms hedding your way
[13:25:06] <IchGuckLive> we will get them tomorrow
[13:25:13] <IchGuckLive> BYE
[13:28:09] <CaptHindsight> the first step for onscreen keyboard with touchscreen will just be proper desktop integration, it seems these Ubuntu projects get close and then stop or get worse
[13:30:15] <CaptHindsight> maybe a gamepad + touchscreen
[13:30:46] <Jymmm> No , not "desktop" intergrations, system intergration as you could use a terminal variant much like joystick
[13:32:18] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/gmoccapy_with_right_panel_in_MDI_mode.png
[13:32:46] <Jymmm> no comment
[13:33:01] <CaptHindsight> heh
[13:33:41] <CaptHindsight> well you're free to modify the layout and color pallet
[13:34:11] <Jymmm> More like destroy all if it and start from scratch.
[13:34:19] <Jymmm> s/if/of/
[13:34:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Was that your creation?
[13:35:17] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: thats right off the wiki http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Gmoccapy
[13:35:45] <CaptHindsight> I only write software as a last resort
[13:36:55] <Jymmm> Y'all are some great coders, but ya suck at UI. Now all coders sucks at docs, but that's a given and why tech writers exist =)
[13:37:37] <Jymmm> Do what you do best my lil code monkeys!!!
[13:39:06] <Jymmm> What is the GUI framework in those examples CaptHindsight?
[13:39:10] <CaptHindsight> I think the UI's have evolved from traditional machine interfaces
[13:39:42] <Jymmm> Well, for example look at this... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/gmoccapy_ntb_preview_maximized_2.png
[13:39:56] <Jymmm> There is HUGE unused whitespace everywhere.
[13:40:54] <Jymmm> itty bitty xyz on the left, no scaling of labels/data, the right column buttons have unused top/bottom white space that could be for fingers to touch. etc.
[13:41:26] <Jymmm> the bottom row has huge gaps of whitespace too.
[13:41:39] <Jymmm> tiny tabs at the top
[13:41:45] <CaptHindsight> well I supposedly have the latest stable Android on a Google Nexus and the phone app appears to be written by people that have never actually used phones
[13:41:54] <Jymmm> no display of UOM
[13:42:10] <Jymmm> it's a small thing, but could save some grief
[13:42:56] <Jymmm> Maybe intergarate "HOME" or JOG function into the existings items
[13:43:33] <Jymmm> tap x-rel and a numpad pops up as example
[13:43:54] <Jymmm> but give some indication that is even possible to do.
[13:44:00] <Jymmm> etc
[13:44:45] <Jymmm> I suspect it may be a limitation of the gui framework though.
[13:46:00] <Jymmm> gtk blade??? https://glade.gnome.org/images/glade-main-page.png
[13:50:21] <Jymmm> How does blade integrate into accessibility? So if someone sets theri whole system up for LARGE FONTS as example?
[13:50:40] <Jymmm> or does it?
[13:55:56] <maZer`-> does somebody can tell me best free cam software for 3d milling? :D
[13:56:05] <jdh> that's pretty funny!
[13:56:39] <maZer`-> i mean recomment any good free 3d cam software :)
[13:57:09] <jdh> that's pretty funny too!
[13:57:28] <Jymmm> maZer`-: Keep saying free, it makes it funnier every time
[13:57:35] <maZer`-> hehe :D
[13:57:55] <Jymmm> maZer`-: same goes with 'good' you cheap bastard =)
[13:58:05] <maZer`-> xD
[13:58:23] <maZer`-> its just for learning :D
[13:58:28] <jdh> vi
[13:58:50] <jdh> or emacs if you are so inclined.
[13:58:51] <Jymmm> maZer`-: just like student loans, you pay to learn
[13:59:36] <maZer`-> hm :)
[14:00:09] <jdh> steal a copy of inventor and try HSMExpress
[14:00:29] <Jymmm> s/steal/borrow/
[14:01:10] <miss0r> Do any of you guys know how I can avoid getting ugly edges on my pcbs when using engraving needles to do the milling?
[14:02:09] <miss0r> as in the copper rises along the milled edges
[14:02:45] <Jymmm> pic of your tooling
[14:03:06] <miss0r> you want a picture of something i've made or of the tool used to mill?
[14:03:15] <Jymmm> tooling
[14:04:08] <miss0r> one like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x1-8-Carbide-Extra-Long-Engraving-Bit-vs-Blade-CNC-Router-Tool-30Deg-1-0mm/140735452881?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23309%26meid%3D7502774123684557818%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D9834%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D130672532381&rt=nc
[14:04:50] <Jymmm> http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm
[14:05:29] <Jymmm> http://www.precisebits.com/applications/pcbtools.htm
[14:06:28] <Jymmm> http://www.precisebits.com/products/carbidebits/scoreengrave.asp
[14:06:59] <miss0r> So, this is what I need to do a proper job?
[14:07:21] <_methods> i use .6mm end mill for mine
[14:07:24] * skunkworks_ has had better luck with what Jymmm posted..
[14:07:25] <Jymmm> what you have is an engraver's bit
[14:07:49] <Jymmm> like engraving on a flask
[14:07:57] <Jymmm> or cigar lighter
[14:07:59] <miss0r> indeed. I was told it would do fine for pcb
[14:08:11] <Jymmm> miss0r: they lied =)
[14:08:12] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-0-0237-0-6mm-Carbide-End-Mill-Engraving-Bits-CNC-PCB-Machinery-1-8-shank-/221367264985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338a8466d9
[14:08:27] <miss0r> it seems so.
[14:08:49] <CaptHindsight> for now I'm just trying to get Linuxcnc working/usable with all the control/driver hardware in the space of a touschscreen
[14:08:51] <Jymmm> miss0r: http://www.timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[14:08:53] <_methods> those v bits seem to lift the pcb edges
[14:09:42] <miss0r> indeed.
[14:10:03] <miss0r> *sigh* here I am again trying to convert inches to mm :)
[14:10:14] <Jymmm> maybe cradek or jepler can give soem insight.
[14:10:55] <miss0r> x*2,54 is close enough for my work ;)
[14:11:15] <miss0r> Should I go for the 30degree or the 60?
[14:11:30] <Jymmm> miss0r: Read the link I gave
[14:11:38] <miss0r> alright. thanks
[14:12:20] <Jymmm> there is a pic of the results too
[14:12:30] <Jymmm> YMMV of course
[14:14:12] <Jymmm> glade custom widgets is XML based, and widget adapter looks to be c/c++ based *sigh*
[14:15:04] <Jymmm> This isn't a python nomenclature, is it? #define GWA_DEFAULT_WIDTH(obj)
[14:19:41] <Jymmm> ah, c code.
[14:20:16] <Jymmm> but there is mention of "class". are there classes in C? I thought only c++
[14:20:25] <miss0r> Jymmm; I can't seem to figure out the shaft diameter of the toolks i'm looking at here
[14:20:38] <Jymmm> miss0r: link?
[14:21:10] <miss0r> http://www.precisebits.com/products/carbidebits/scoreengrave.asp
[14:21:32] <Jymmm> Shank dia. - 0.1250 in. (3.18 mm) +0.00, -0.0002 in.
[14:21:40] <Jymmm> 1/8" shank
[14:21:59] <Jymmm> left side, 5th bullet down
[14:22:09] <miss0r> meh. next time I will look under 'specs'. thanks
[14:22:14] <Jymmm> =)
[14:22:20] <Jymmm> eh, shit happens
[14:23:04] <Jymmm> miss0r: Tutotial http://www.precisebits.com/tutorials/pcb_mech_etch.htm
[14:24:46] <Jymmm> miss0r: Also says 0.125" shank in red inside the yellow bar ---> PreciseBIT 2-flute, Micro-engraving, PCB Traces Isolation Bits (EM2E8) - (0.125" shank )
[14:26:33] <Jymmm> miss0r: If you have a lot of info on a webpage and you are looking for something specific, hit CTRL+F and type in the word you are looking for on the page.
[14:27:09] <Jymmm> hit CTRL+G to find aGain, (aka find the next occurance)
[14:27:25] <miss0r> indeed. I know these things; I just had a brainfart
[14:27:36] <miss0r> But thanks, thou
[14:27:54] <Jymmm> doesn't help to know if you dont use em =)
[14:28:20] <Jymmm> Especially since those work on win/mac/linux
[14:28:28] <miss0r> My brain is in idle mode: i'm in the army reserve, and yesterday we had a 30 mile march with 40 pounds on our backs... i'm a bit worn out today
[14:28:55] <Jymmm> That's it? only 40lbs?
[14:29:39] <Jymmm> 30 miles, oh come on, could get that done in an hour,
[14:29:40] <miss0r> yeah. other than that you have water, your rifle and standard equipment. the 40 pounds is just to make your life a bit harder
[14:30:02] <miss0r> My feet disagree ;)
[14:30:08] <Jymmm> That's just a freindly stroll
[14:30:19] <Jymmm> =)
[14:30:25] <miss0r> lets never have a friendly stroll, then ;)
[14:30:46] <Jymmm> water? I'd have dumped in some gatoraid in there myself
[14:30:59] <Jymmm> the packets packet 32ox at a time
[14:31:07] <miss0r> I eat salted peanuts.
[14:31:11] <Jymmm> dissolve easily too
[14:31:19] <miss0r> salt and water.
[14:31:30] <Cylly> Jymmm: 30 miles in one hour? you should get enliste für the olymic team! ;-)
[14:32:04] <miss0r> we finished just short of 10 hours
[14:32:10] <Jymmm> Cylly: Nah, they are too slow
[14:32:21] <Cylly> 10 hours is a bit much though
[14:32:44] <miss0r> perhaps if you go by road - we did that too, but as much as possible we did terrain
[14:33:10] <miss0r> "You know, son, if the enemy is here there will be no roads" - stg. asshole
[14:33:32] <Cylly> iirc our marches in german army were with 35kg of backpack, plus rifle. ant then we had to hit less than 6 hrs for 30km
[14:33:43] <Jymmm> miss0r: PLUS, if you buy the gatorade packets, you can sell them to others too
[14:34:19] <miss0r> Cylly: indeed. but keep in mind 30 miles =! 30 km
[14:34:37] <Cylly> but luckily i was at the navvy, so no marches for me other than basic training ;-)
[14:35:11] <miss0r> I was in logistics before I became an electrician.
[14:35:24] <miss0r> I used to drive an armored veicle
[14:35:49] <miss0r> not much running/marching involved.
[14:36:14] <Cylly> <- was sonar operator on a sub-hunter (small 70 meters boat with torpedoes)
[14:36:43] <miss0r> I thought about joining the navy back then. but then I remembered the Danish navy is a joke
[14:37:12] <Cylly> <- had laughed hard on the combined training with the americans. where our subs had "shot down" the whole carrier group without been detected once ;-)
[14:37:29] <Jymmm> miss0r: each packet makes 32oz coems in a bag http://www.amazon.com/Gatorade-Perform-02-Powder-Packet/dp/B004ZMY0YG/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1402341529&sr=8-8&keywords=gatorade+powder
[14:37:45] <CaptHindsight> boy you kids had it easy back in my day we had load the wagons and .....
[14:38:06] <miss0r> Jymmm: not a bad idea, except I wouldn't want to put anything but water in my containers. I use camelbak
[14:38:09] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: ... attach the horses to the wagon?
[14:38:10] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:38:49] <Jymmm> miss0r: I understand, but might search around and see what others are doing. it might not be a bad thing.
[14:38:51] <CaptHindsight> horses! I wish we had horses :)
[14:39:07] <Jymmm> miss0r: maybe ppl add flavorings to camelbacks
[14:39:12] <Jymmm> many*
[14:39:20] <Loetmichel> whats a camelback?
[14:39:27] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: google it
[14:39:29] <miss0r> Loetmichel: CaptHindsight had the worst job of all. not only did he have to get up at 03:30 every morning to feed the horses, his primary function was to put the canonball into the barrel of the blackpouder prior to battle
[14:39:42] <miss0r> Loetmichel: cammelbak
[14:39:53] <Jymmm> miss0r: your muscles will thank you for the added electrolytes and minerals
[14:40:16] <miss0r> Jymmm: I filled up on all sorts of stuff when I got home ;)
[14:40:28] <Jymmm> miss0r: pro atheletes are now going to pedilite over gatorade
[14:40:30] <CaptHindsight> 3:30!, we had to wake up 2 hours before went to bed :)
[14:40:48] <Jymmm> miss0r: you want to replenish as you go, not "after the fact"
[14:41:38] <Loetmichel> ah, literally a camel backpack
[14:41:40] <Loetmichel> i see
[14:41:41] <bertrik> CaptHindsight: and lick the road clean?
[14:41:42] <miss0r> Jymm: well. it will be 6 months before the next march. I shall try to remember there
[14:41:54] <Loetmichel> we had just the usual aluminium bottles on the belt
[14:42:03] <Jymmm> miss0r: and sell each packet to other for $5 =)
[14:42:17] <Loetmichel> Jymmm:you are greedy ;-)
[14:42:23] <miss0r> Loetmichel: Quite nice to have. you have a hose/straw to drink from - that makes it easy enough for you to do so you won't forget to hydrate
[14:42:33] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: What, all they are goin g to do is drink ber anyway =)
[14:42:55] <miss0r> Jymmm: You make it sound like we have a choise?
[14:42:56] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: as it it miss0r fault that others didn't think of it?
[14:43:17] <Jymmm> miss0r: choice of beer =)
[14:43:36] <Loetmichel> surprisingly: i had to ditch my last sixpack beer. was a year over the "best before" date
[14:43:49] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Besides, not like miss0r is holding a gun to their head
[14:44:05] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: charging $5 for a pack that costs a few cent seems greedy to me
[14:44:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: supply and demand baby =)
[14:44:26] <miss0r> Jymmm: There we go - 4 mill bits ordered ;)
[14:44:37] <Jymmm> 50 miles from nowhere =)
[14:44:44] <Loetmichel> still greedy
[14:44:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: miss0r gotta pay for thour pcb bits somehow =)
[14:44:56] <Loetmichel> it will get paid, still you are on the greedy side ;-)
[14:45:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Not greedy, $10 would be greedy =)
[14:45:23] <Jymmm> miss0r: so charge $8 instead =)
[14:45:37] <Loetmichel> if you say so. my opinion is a bit different
[14:45:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It's $1.50 each anyway, not really that much profit
[14:46:01] <miss0r> holy. We are a small unit of 10 people. We share everything and get together often for beer. I could never charge them for energy on a march
[14:46:18] <Loetmichel> miss0r: thats my kind of guy ;-)
[14:47:03] <miss0r> yesterdays march ended here at my place for grill and beer around the campire till early morning
[14:47:04] <Loetmichel> btw: beer is a surprisingly good isotonic drink!
[14:47:18] <miss0r> campire=campfire*
[14:48:58] <miss0r> almost done milling! I made 10 small brass plates with our group logo on it. aprox 5x30mm
[15:02:32] <miss0r> i'm out. see you
[15:43:32] <jdh> sounds bogus to me.
[16:26:13] * JT-Shop notices cutting stainless steel on the plasma table makes lots of brown gook
[16:26:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: can you send your plasma down our clogs drains
[16:27:04] <Jymmm> it might feel at home with the brown gook
[16:27:15] <Jymmm> (heavy sigh)
[16:30:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140609-inventor-of-filamaker-creates-a-3d-printed-pla-kitchen-waste-shredder.html
[16:30:47] <CaptHindsight> bad 3d printer story of the day, with waste as the topic, i wonder if it can shred itself?
[16:31:51] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i wanted to build a small pipe camera bot anyways
[16:32:02] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, it gets used over and over
[16:32:12] <Loetmichel> mybe i should get tinkering there
[16:32:38] <Loetmichel> so you can look at the clog and use a high pressure cleaner to "unclog" it?
[16:39:40] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: hmm
[16:40:05] <Loetmichel> a shredder is made out of very hard steel for a reason
[16:40:40] <CaptHindsight> probably overkill for cheese
[16:40:41] <Loetmichel> i would think even with organics (and no occasional bone in it) the schredding discs will wear very quickly ;)
[16:41:43] <CaptHindsight> more of a chopped salad maker than shredder
[16:42:15] <t12> but but but
[16:42:17] <Loetmichel> right
[16:42:19] <t12> the future of industry
[16:42:21] <t12> and manufacturing
[16:42:26] <t12> and distributed etc etc etc etc
[16:42:38] <Loetmichel> bullshit bingo?
[16:42:47] <CaptHindsight> the future is chopped salad
[16:43:02] <t12> we're empowering local communities through decentralized democratized plastic upcycling
[16:43:20] <Loetmichel> hmm
[16:43:33] <t12> that should be
[16:43:40] <t12> empowering micro-gastronomy
[16:45:54] <CaptHindsight> there were some worse ones today but I can't bear to even pass the links along :)
[16:47:04] <andypugh> I wonder if I am breaking any laws by making this? http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk (not the forge, the thing I made with the forge)
[16:52:25] <zeeshan> andypugh: is that your blog?
[16:52:37] <andypugh> Aye, that is be.
[16:53:26] <zeeshan> i like the fancy machining you do
[16:53:26] <zeeshan> :D
[16:53:35] <zeeshan> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jVxYBlmprbw/U2QE5ZNgkLI/AAAAAAAADZ8/bPzXFJGWZcQ/s1600/IMG_1183.jpg
[16:53:36] <zeeshan> like that
[16:54:02] <Jymmm> $250 to snake the pipes via roof vent and no warranty?!
[16:54:23] <CaptHindsight> that'll cost you $500
[16:54:43] <andypugh> I use the lathe for lots of things that normal folk would do with a mill.
[16:54:49] <zeeshan> andypugh: me too
[16:54:55] <zeeshan> mainly because my first real machine was a lathe
[16:55:04] <zeeshan> suprisngly, the lathe can do a LOT!!
[16:55:06] <zeeshan> and faster.
[16:55:14] <jthornton> andypugh very nice
[16:55:14] <andypugh> Yes, I have been using a lathe for 40 years and a mill for 5 years :-)
[16:55:22] <zeeshan> 10 for lathe
[16:55:26] <zeeshan> 1 year for mill
[16:55:26] <zeeshan> ;
[16:56:03] <andypugh> I started using a lathe when I was 7. I was cheaper than a power feed :_0
[16:56:19] <zeeshan> so you're 47? :p
[16:56:34] <zeeshan> ol fart
[16:57:03] <andypugh> The strange thing is, I am sure I used to be young!
[17:02:57] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: swapped out the stepper motor in a IACV, 2 weeks later it shorts out and takes the mosfets in the ECU along with it since they don't believe in current overload protection
[17:03:10] <zeeshan> aww
[17:03:11] <zeeshan> =/
[17:03:21] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: that is a vcery common happening
[17:03:31] <zeeshan> what car?
[17:03:39] <CaptHindsight> Nissan
[17:03:47] <CaptHindsight> awful design
[17:03:53] <zeeshan> most cars are like that
[17:03:59] <zeeshan> these arent industrial plcs
[17:03:59] <zeeshan> :)
[17:04:02] <CaptHindsight> along with the active motor mounts
[17:04:14] <zeeshan> the only shitty part about replacing an ecu is
[17:04:21] <zeeshan> the engine immoblizer code non sense
[17:04:29] <CaptHindsight> just replacing the mosfets
[17:04:32] <zeeshan> oh
[17:04:54] <CaptHindsight> found a tool to reflash the immobilizer as well
[17:05:17] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to RE the whole ECU just to stick it to Nissan
[17:05:31] <zeeshan> nistune
[17:05:49] <Loetmichel> andypugh: having scrolled through your blog the last half hour... you begin to amaze me ;-)
[17:06:07] <Loetmichel> <- lifts imaginary hat
[17:06:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: the swap was just for preventative maintenance, was more insured destruction :)
[17:06:55] <CaptHindsight> insured/assured
[17:07:53] <CaptHindsight> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Gph7ASFI8GQ/U5S7rAH5ZKI/AAAAAAAADmM/Omg-sOtrNbI/s1600/IMG_1314.jpg ?
[17:08:04] <zeeshan> mabn
[17:08:06] <zeeshan> i love ebay
[17:08:14] <zeeshan> im selling this weird ass component i found in a toolbox purchase
[17:08:16] <zeeshan> it was brand new
[17:08:22] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/261495210903?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
[17:08:26] <zeeshan> it actually has a bid on it
[17:08:27] <zeeshan> haha
[17:08:58] <zeeshan> no idea what machine its from
[17:08:58] <zeeshan> ;p
[17:09:14] <CaptHindsight> somebody must have one :)
[17:09:27] <zeeshan> now im gonna start listing
[17:09:33] <zeeshan> all my items that i think are 'rare'
[17:09:46] <zeeshan> rare as in 'not someone the major public would want'
[17:09:54] <zeeshan> ie application specific gears
[17:09:55] <zeeshan> etc
[17:10:02] <zeeshan> maybe somoene needs em
[17:11:48] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Yes. Curiously few of my friends recognised it. I think Americans might recognise it more.
[17:11:57] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: these blow up good http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6121/ecunotes.jpg
[17:12:20] <zeeshan> those look like a pain in the butt to change
[17:12:49] <CaptHindsight> nah, I had a soldering iron in my hands before I could walk :)
[17:13:01] <CaptHindsight> hot little buggers
[17:13:04] <zeeshan> if its surface mount stuff
[17:13:08] <zeeshan> i have no skills :P
[17:13:18] <zeeshan> if its pin hole stuff
[17:13:21] <zeeshan> i can handle it
[17:13:32] <CaptHindsight> it's the inline STA509A's
[17:13:36] <zeeshan> OH
[17:13:39] <zeeshan> thats easy to change
[17:13:40] <zeeshan> :D
[17:13:49] <zeeshan> i thought it was the chip that the red lines are pointing to
[17:13:53] <CaptHindsight> and new pcb traces
[17:14:07] <CaptHindsight> vs $1400 for a new ecu
[17:14:23] <zeeshan> you can get it from a junkyard :P
[17:14:24] <andypugh> I found out a while ago that vehicle ECUs are not reverse-polarity protected.
[17:14:27] <zeeshan> what year car eactrly?
[17:14:34] <zeeshan> andypugh: they're cheapo systems
[17:14:41] <CaptHindsight> what a way to stick it to owners long after the warranty expires
[17:14:49] <andypugh> Unfortunately this was a development/emulated module, $15,000
[17:15:02] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hmmm
[17:15:03] <zeeshan> tell me CaptHindsight!!
[17:15:14] <Loetmichel> supply from hell and no reverse polarty protecion?
[17:15:16] <CaptHindsight> 01
[17:15:20] <Loetmichel> the car desingers have balls...
[17:15:25] <zeeshan> 2001 what
[17:15:34] <CaptHindsight> maxima
[17:15:56] <andypugh> Typically you can only reach the battery terminal with the correct battery lead.
[17:16:04] <zeeshan> automatic or manual
[17:16:17] <CaptHindsight> auto, no traction control
[17:16:21] <andypugh> But I was working on a test rig with croc-clips
[17:16:27] <CaptHindsight> 3.0
[17:16:37] <zeeshan> my internets says
[17:16:42] <zeeshan> $50
[17:16:45] <zeeshan> for a used one
[17:16:53] <zeeshan> $100 tested
[17:16:53] <zeeshan> :D
[17:17:00] <CaptHindsight> saw that up in the great white north
[17:17:00] <zeeshan> http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=USA&userIMS=&userInterchange=BF%3D%3DB&userSide=&userDate=2001&userDate2=2001&dbModel=
[17:17:06] <zeeshan> i dunno if you can see that page
[17:17:29] <zeeshan> regardless youre better off replacing the chip
[17:17:30] <CaptHindsight> yeah, i have spares now :)
[17:17:37] <zeeshan> cause you dont have to deal with bullshit immoblizer reflashing
[17:17:42] <CaptHindsight> fleabay $30
[17:17:44] <zeeshan> which only the dealership can do or you gotta buy nistune for $500
[17:18:03] <CaptHindsight> I have a package for $70 that does it
[17:18:19] <zeeshan> nice
[17:18:23] <CaptHindsight> some Australia tuner package
[17:18:41] <CaptHindsight> and the pin# was the same for all 2000-01
[17:18:49] <CaptHindsight> they got fancy in 02'
[17:18:59] <CaptHindsight> more than one PIN #
[17:19:21] <t12> http://i.imgur.com/6RpTZgI.gif
[17:19:31] <andypugh> A dealer shouldn’t charge much for a re-synch. That isn’t to say that they won’t, but they shouldn’t.
[17:20:01] <CaptHindsight> around here it's $100-200 for immobilizer programming
[17:21:02] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I still have to get around to importing used non ECU 4 cylinder diesels
[17:21:08] <zeeshan> yea it was 150$ for my car
[17:21:13] <zeeshan> i just bought the ecu flashing kit for 200
[17:21:36] <zeeshan> now i by pass all the egr and evap nonsense codes
[17:21:41] <zeeshan> =p
[17:21:46] <andypugh> Diesels _with_ ECUs work a whole lot better though.
[17:21:48] <zeeshan> and run leaner!
[17:21:52] <CaptHindsight> yeah, considering the same
[17:22:16] <andypugh> EGR isn’t all bad, you know.
[17:22:20] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: didn't they get fancy with ECU and engine matching?
[17:22:24] <zeeshan> fak agr
[17:22:26] <zeeshan> *egr
[17:22:37] <zeeshan> the environment needs more NOx.
[17:22:38] <CaptHindsight> or ECU would be better
[17:23:10] <zeeshan> sorry im old school
[17:23:13] <CaptHindsight> maybe a open ECU or at least one you can not worry about the immobilizer one
[17:23:16] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Ah, you want to import just the engines? You probably need them as a unit with the loom anyway, and the acessory drive will always be a horribe job to re-engineer.
[17:23:19] <zeeshan> my 93 rx7 doesnt need any emissions stuff on it
[17:23:52] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I could probably sell a ship full for retrofits
[17:24:01] <andypugh> http://xkcd.com/1379/
[17:24:26] <zeeshan> andypugh: its okay
[17:24:28] <zeeshan> ill be dead by then
[17:24:28] <zeeshan> :D
[17:24:52] <andypugh> And that is why nothing is going to be done, and the cockroaches get their turn.
[17:24:58] <zeeshan> yessir
[17:25:03] <zeeshan> to be real honest with you
[17:25:09] <zeeshan> cars are part of the problem.
[17:25:22] <zeeshan> if you look at the emissions numbers totalling all the cars in the world
[17:25:27] <zeeshan> and compare them to the industrial sector
[17:25:36] <zeeshan> you'll notice car co2 emissions make up like 15% for co2
[17:25:53] <t12> noone ever wants to talk about
[17:25:57] <andypugh> The car is possibly the worst environmental disaster of all time, on some levels.
[17:25:58] <t12> the amount that goes into fertalizer
[17:26:05] <zeeshan> andypugh: i disagree
[17:26:24] <zeeshan> the worst environment disaster is the human being
[17:26:35] <CaptHindsight> well the conservatives anyway :)
[17:26:48] <zeeshan> t12: for every coal plant the USA closes
[17:26:51] <zeeshan> china opens 5
[17:27:02] <zeeshan> at least thats what the stat said back a couple years ago
[17:27:04] <t12> lets go to war and stop the coal plants
[17:27:18] <andypugh> Well, yes, but without us life is doomed anyway. At least there is a chance we can make up for it all by getting life off-planet :-)
[17:27:25] <CaptHindsight> well it's their turn now the west had their way the past 100 years
[17:27:25] <zeeshan> on my regular dialy driver car
[17:27:30] <t12> yeahi say
[17:27:32] <zeeshan> i have a catalyitic convertor (3 way)
[17:27:34] <t12> we just gotta make it into orbit
[17:27:39] <CaptHindsight> that's the attitude in China
[17:27:40] <zeeshan> but on my race car, fuck will i ever put a catalytic converter on it
[17:27:41] <t12> then we can play ever expanding economy for much longer
[17:27:54] <zeeshan> andypugh: just like you wont have a cat on your nerf-a-car
[17:27:55] <zeeshan> :P
[17:28:30] <zeeshan> ner-a-car i mean
[17:28:46] <zeeshan> ive personally gone to india
[17:28:48] <zeeshan> and china.
[17:28:50] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I have some sympathy with their viewpoint, and they _still_ have far lower per-capita emissions that the US (or the UK)
[17:28:53] <zeeshan> you can't fucking breathe!
[17:28:58] <zeeshan> the sky is BROWN
[17:29:16] <t12> cut to: the industrial revolution
[17:29:23] <andypugh> Yeah, London was like that 50 years ago.
[17:29:26] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you should go in winter, it's more grey
[17:29:49] <andypugh> I have only been to China in winter. It was quite nice.
[17:29:58] <zeeshan> mainland china or hong kng
[17:30:02] <zeeshan> cause there is a huge difference
[17:30:40] <andypugh> The Ner-a-Car doesn’t have a Cat. But my main bike (the R1) does, and I have felt no urge at all to remove any of the emissions stuff, or fit a louder exhaust.
[17:30:51] <andypugh> I went to Qingdao
[17:31:13] <zeeshan> andypugh: as you probably know a cat only works within +/- 5% of 14.7:1 for gasoline
[17:31:19] <zeeshan> on the race car, im close to 11.8:1
[17:31:25] <zeeshan> since it's WOT most of the time
[17:31:29] <andypugh> Because a) it is quite fast enough and b) I don’t want anyone to notice how fast it is :-)
[17:31:31] <zeeshan> it burns up cats and clogs em
[17:32:06] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: did they make a mechanical fuel injection small 4 cylinder diesel there?
[17:32:14] <andypugh> zeeshan: They _can_ work. Diesels run fantastically lean and their cats work.
[17:32:29] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: They made millions.
[17:32:31] <CaptHindsight> old VW diesel engines here for for $2K worn out
[17:32:41] <zeeshan> andypugh: well the leaner you get the more inefficient they become
[17:32:50] <zeeshan> and the richer you get, the hotter they run, and blow up
[17:32:50] <zeeshan> :D
[17:32:57] <andypugh> I think that probably depends on the cat.
[17:33:08] <zeeshan> i only have expeirence with 3 way cats on gasoline
[17:33:22] <zeeshan> i know very little about diesel. mainly from class
[17:33:28] <andypugh> And I don’t actually do emissions work at all. I mainly do noise.
[17:33:52] <zeeshan> you're a master acoustic impedance guy then!
[17:34:04] <zeeshan> i took this 'noise analysis & control' class
[17:34:05] <DaViruz> diesel engines (diesel pumps specifically) and automatic transmissinos are not engineered, they are brewed in a pot by a witch living near the top of a mountain
[17:34:09] <zeeshan> it was my favourite
[17:35:22] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: maybe I should just import them from Canada
[17:35:30] <zeeshan> import what?
[17:35:48] <CaptHindsight> 4 cyl diesel engines
[17:35:57] <zeeshan> no
[17:36:12] <zeeshan> your main option would be like a VW tdi engine
[17:36:20] <zeeshan> but if you source from uk or europe, you can get all sorts of fancy stuff
[17:36:34] <zeeshan> all depends on how many you want
[17:36:40] <zeeshan> and power specs
[17:36:54] <CaptHindsight> a few thousand should keep me busy
[17:37:38] <CaptHindsight> or until the EPA gets upset about there being too many retrofits
[17:37:38] <andypugh> a friend just died
[17:37:44] <andypugh> goodnight
[17:37:49] <zeeshan> eek
[17:37:52] <zeeshan> =/
[17:39:13] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: used 1995 tdi engines are ~$1700 on car-part.com in the USA, $500 from Canada
[17:39:22] <CaptHindsight> as an example
[17:39:32] <zeeshan> im suprised
[17:39:35] <zeeshan> usa stuff is usually cheaper :D
[17:40:27] <CaptHindsight> they did a good job of keeping high mpg diesels off the roads here
[17:40:37] <CaptHindsight> so they are hard to find
[17:41:29] <CaptHindsight> there's an outfit that imports japanese engines here, they do swaps for cheap
[17:41:48] <CaptHindsight> but no diesels
[17:43:22] <Loetmichel> why not?
[17:43:35] <Loetmichel> diesels are rhe simpler engines i think
[17:43:52] <CaptHindsight> not many japanese diesel cars were imported here
[17:44:01] <CaptHindsight> they kept it from happening
[17:44:05] <Loetmichel> even my turbocharged 6zyl is not as complex as its gasoline counterpart
[17:44:23] <CaptHindsight> they wanted everyone driving low mileage SUV's
[17:45:13] <CaptHindsight> thats why the emmisions standard was specifically written to not allow the high mileage diesels common in Europe to reach the US
[17:45:45] <CaptHindsight> the max sulfur standard is too low
[17:47:34] <Loetmichel> that is a problem for the fuel suppliers, not the engine makers?
[17:47:46] <Loetmichel> and high mileage?
[17:48:24] <Loetmichel> my omega bareley gets up to 25mpg
[17:48:38] <Loetmichel> if i drive VERY careful i can get it up to 30
[17:50:55] <Loetmichel> https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/442560.html
[17:51:39] <Loetmichel> the same car with a 2,5 liter gasoline engine is much worse, though
[17:51:40] <CaptHindsight> hard to find an Opel here made after 1980
[17:51:59] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: america?
[17:52:07] <CaptHindsight> yes
[17:53:00] <Loetmichel> then look for a cadillac catera
[17:53:02] <Loetmichel> same car
[17:53:18] <Loetmichel> but i think they didnt sell the station wagon there
[17:55:20] <Loetmichel> which is the mode sold most in germany
[17:55:29] <Loetmichel> to contractors mostly
[17:55:36] <Loetmichel> because its a storage wonder
[17:55:57] <Loetmichel> which pissed off opel so much that they cancelled it
[17:56:44] <Loetmichel> they wanted to get "high class" customers from BMW and merc... ... and got only workers.
[17:56:45] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:01:21] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Catera
[18:02:23] <CaptHindsight> gas only version
[18:06:03] <Jymmmm> theoretically, could lcnc "handoff" a job to a mesa board to run, and then shut down lcnc while the mesa does the job?
[18:06:30] <andypugh> Not with Hostmot2
[18:06:51] <jymmm> becasue it requires feedback?
[18:06:52] <andypugh> I think that one of the other Mesa firmwares is more “standalone”
[18:07:29] <jymmm> andypugh: hostmot2 being the thing that the fpga loads?
[18:07:37] <andypugh> Yes
[18:07:40] <jymmm> k
[18:08:21] <jymmm> Ok, but in prectical theory, could it be done fairly easily?
[18:08:44] <jymmm> or fairly straight forrward
[18:09:31] <andypugh> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/softdmc.pdf
[18:10:29] <jymmm> andypugh: would that mimic the features/functionality of lcnc?
[18:10:41] <andypugh> I have no idea at all.
[18:10:50] <andypugh> You would have to read the manual
[18:11:20] <jymmm> I'm looking but doesn't say what they are compared to lcnc
[18:11:32] <andypugh> I think it is different.
[18:11:46] <jymmm> hmmm pascal
[18:12:27] <jymmm> andypugh: you unerstand what I'm getting at?
[18:12:43] <andypugh> You want a Smoothstepper?
[18:13:13] <jymmm> I hate USB. Now ethernet is another story =)
[18:39:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bananapi.org/p/product.html "A highend Pi only for Target US$29.99" not sure what that means in English
[18:46:30] <SpeedEvil> Similar to a Pi, but way faster.
[18:47:05] <CaptHindsight> A20 in a almost Pi form factor and pinout
[19:30:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Yfz4beQ.jpg
[19:30:10] <zeeshan> ball screw cover made
[19:31:35] <CaptHindsight> no more naked ballscrews running around
[19:31:41] <zeeshan> yessir
[19:34:25] <SpeedEvil> Always good to have your balls covered.
[19:34:33] <SpeedEvil> Especially if there is hot metal flying around.
[19:34:38] <SpeedEvil> I learned this while soldering.
[19:34:42] <zeeshan> rofl
[19:35:03] <CaptHindsight> frying bacon in the nude is another lesson
[19:40:01] <syyl> thats a bit much information
[19:40:15] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i was shirtless
[19:40:21] <zeeshan> and my gf frigging threw fries in the pan
[19:40:29] <zeeshan> i instantly got burned. shit hurt for 2 weeks
[19:40:34] <zeeshan> permanent marks.
[19:40:42] <syyl> battle scars!
[19:40:46] <zeeshan> =[
[19:40:58] <jdh> next time, wear clothes when frying
[19:41:15] <zeeshan> noi
[19:41:22] <syyl> or remove the gf clothes
[19:41:27] <zeeshan> jdh suggest cover for X
[19:41:28] <zeeshan> ;[
[19:41:29] <syyl> that will stop her from doing it ;)
[19:41:33] <XXCoder> naked balls jeez is this topic suddenly into porn?
[19:41:46] <syyl> its the internet!
[19:41:49] <XXCoder> and thats nice
[19:41:56] <XXCoder> pic that is
[19:43:14] <zeeshan> guys this is linuxcnc
[19:43:16] <zeeshan> !!!
[19:43:29] <syyl> and linuxcnc is for machinists
[19:43:33] <syyl> and machinists like porn?
[19:43:40] <syyl> simple equation
[19:43:41] <syyl> Oo
[19:44:00] <zeeshan> does not compute
[19:44:22] <XXCoder> well machinists like to screw
[19:44:25] <XXCoder> and rotate
[19:44:30] <syyl> screw up :D
[19:44:35] <SpeedEvil> Lubrication is important.
[19:44:49] <syyl> when in doubt, use lube
[22:53:26] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/njCNjKP.jpg
[22:53:29] <zeeshan> brackets mounted!
[22:53:38] <zeeshan> cant really test the signals
[22:53:45] <zeeshan> since i dont have a frigging power supply.
[22:53:50] <zeeshan> cnc4pc send me my shit|!!
[23:03:59] <XXCoder> zeeshan: hey
[23:04:11] <XXCoder> encoders eh
[23:05:46] <zeeshan> yessir
[23:05:56] <XXCoder> cool
[23:06:03] <zeeshan> i hope they read right
[23:06:12] <XXCoder> oh I just bought table saw and drill press
[23:06:16] <zeeshan> nice!!
[23:06:20] <XXCoder> those will really help me build
[23:06:21] <zeeshan> =)!
[23:06:35] <zeeshan> which state are you in
[23:06:37] <XXCoder> shitty versions but how often will I use em besides making stock for my router?
[23:06:38] <zeeshan> i asked you this the other day!
[23:06:38] <XXCoder> wa
[23:06:44] <zeeshan> is that west coast?
[23:06:56] <XXCoder> so west that if I walk hour west I would drown
[23:07:07] <zeeshan> i have 2 mics
[23:07:11] <zeeshan> m&w 0-1 1-2
[23:07:14] <zeeshan> that i dont need
[23:07:18] <XXCoder> mics?
[23:07:23] <zeeshan> i wanna send it to someone who'll make use of em
[23:07:24] <zeeshan> micrometers
[23:07:40] <XXCoder> ahh nice. dial type or digital?
[23:07:46] <zeeshan> dial
[23:07:47] <XXCoder> either would be fine actually :)
[23:07:47] <zeeshan> fak digital
[23:08:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/cftomGN.jpg
[23:08:19] <zeeshan> one is the digits kind
[23:08:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/aIXJo3W.jpg
[23:08:37] <zeeshan> the other is a dial type
[23:08:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/VXeHono.jpg
[23:09:12] <XXCoder> nice
[23:09:38] <zeeshan> tOO BAD your half way across the world
[23:09:39] <zeeshan> ;[
[23:10:30] <XXCoder> lol yeah
[23:10:45] <zeeshan> damn
[23:10:51] <zeeshan> its 30 bux to ship 1lb to wa
[23:11:40] <XXCoder> yah international ship fun
[23:11:55] <XXCoder> it gets expensive quick after few oz
[23:11:57] <XXCoder> er gram
[23:12:14] <XXCoder> most expensive I ever quoted someone was $120
[23:12:25] <XXCoder> but then it was very big set and all way to OZ