#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-05-28

[00:03:28] <XXCoder> chck this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G5eo5d8F5DU
[02:03:50] <Deejay> moin
[03:41:38] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:45:13] <archivist_herron> moaning
[05:24:20] <jthornton> morning
[05:33:39] <jdh> Good Morning Mr. Thornton.
[05:36:32] <jthornton> morning jdh
[09:43:31] * JT-Shop is getting nowhere fast this morning
[10:42:09] <CaptHindsight> !seen tjtr33
[10:42:09] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2014-05-28 05:30:58GMT 10:53:15 ago, saying more complete than this http://meemoo.org/iframework/
[11:10:26] <deMimsy> Am i correct in noticing that one cannot save the loaded tool inbetween instances of linuxcnc?
[11:10:45] <deMimsy> I am not referring to the parameters of a tool but rather indication of which tool is loaded
[11:22:14] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/lzrlfcx might be useful
[11:23:23] <jdh> it would be a fairly large assumption that nothing has happened to the machine while linuxcnc was not running.
[11:25:01] <jthornton> the only exception to that is if you have an absolute encoder on a tool turret
[11:34:01] <SpeedEvil> Or some sort of interlock with memory
[11:47:37] <fogl> hello, can someone please tell me what verion of RTAI is compiled with linuxcnc
[11:48:23] <fogl> is there a RTAI version "uname -a" coomand
[11:56:33] <CaptHindsight> fogl: the 2.6 RTAI that comes with the LiveCD?
[11:56:50] <CaptHindsight> or the 3.4.55 RTAI under test?
[11:57:36] <IchGuckLive> hi all from a sunny day in germany ;_)
[11:57:52] <CaptHindsight> fogl: the 3.4.55 RTAI kernel howto
[11:58:04] <CaptHindsight> the 2.6 is on the Linuxcnc wiki
[11:58:25] <CaptHindsight> 3.4.55 RTAI howto https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/README.INSTALL
[11:59:19] <CaptHindsight> 2.6 RTAI howto http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RtaiSteps
[12:01:33] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: ?
[12:02:51] <IchGuckLive> realy quiet today here in the logs tomorrow is holiday in germany most take a long weekend trip
[12:08:31] <Jymmm> There is a RTAI CONFIG (shell gui)
[12:14:30] <Jymmm> rtai config gui http://i60.tinypic.com/2vhu6ft.jpg
[12:16:05] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: what holiday is it there? we just had one Monday in the US
[12:17:45] <IchGuckLive> its a chrisian one in germany
[12:19:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/germany/ you have lots of them, never noticed that before
[12:22:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-PCI-E-Extension-Cable-1X-To-16X-Slot-Riser-Extender-Card-Flex-cable-Adapter-/371048447636 PCI-E Extension Cables only $2.79
[12:25:28] <narogon> hi!!!
[12:25:38] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[12:25:54] <narogon> do you know if it is possible jog more than one axis
[12:26:07] <narogon> using halui.jog
[12:26:10] <narogon> at the same time?
[12:26:26] <IchGuckLive> why do you want this
[12:26:37] <narogon> because i'm using a joystick
[12:26:56] <narogon> and I want to move X and Y axis at the same tiem
[12:27:17] <narogon> but it the movement seems erratic
[12:27:35] <IchGuckLive> let me test this
[12:27:55] <narogon> i read it only process one movement at the same time
[12:27:58] * kfoltman would probably prefer something like angle dial + jog dial
[12:27:59] <narogon> and discard the others
[12:28:32] <kfoltman> otherwise it's too dependent on manual skills, which is never a good idea ;)
[12:28:43] <narogon> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/345/
[12:29:42] <narogon> however it works if you press more than one key at the same time in the keyboard
[12:30:08] <IchGuckLive> narogon: works perfekt
[12:30:30] <IchGuckLive> how did you connect ypour jojstick
[12:30:59] <narogon> with a analogic input terminal
[12:31:02] <narogon> from beckhoff
[12:31:13] <narogon> i obtain the value correctly in hal
[12:31:22] <IchGuckLive> oh i got only a 3USD joypad here
[12:31:38] <narogon> i connect it with halui.jog.n.analog
[12:31:39] <IchGuckLive> the vid on how connect is on my youtube channel
[12:32:01] <archivist> narogon, do you have enough memory on the machine
[12:32:34] <narogon> memory?? do you mean RAM?
[12:32:50] <archivist> yes, eg user stuff being swapped out
[12:33:00] <narogon> yes
[12:33:20] <Jymmm> O_o
[12:33:28] <IchGuckLive> why dont you use the analog 2 dig so you got a bitwise
[12:33:43] <Jymmm> narogon: how much ram is installed on the machine?
[12:33:44] <IchGuckLive> net joy-xpos-jog halui.jog.1.minus <= input.0.abs-hat0x-is-pos
[12:33:56] <narogon> 4gb and
[12:33:59] <narogon> 3gb free
[12:34:07] <narogon> this isn't the problem
[12:35:11] <Jymmm> narogon: beckoff is a company, which product are you using?
[12:35:11] <narogon> I tried using bitwise
[12:35:19] <narogon> and only jog one axis at the same time
[12:35:29] <narogon> el3102
[12:35:35] <narogon> but this isn't the problem
[12:35:42] <narogon> i have a correct value in hal
[12:36:08] <narogon> i check it with scope
[12:37:00] <narogon> and there isn't any problem with the signal with which i command halui.jog.n.analog
[12:37:35] <narogon> it seems this is the problem
[12:37:36] <narogon> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/345/
[12:38:28] <IchGuckLive> here is works with the digital one
[12:38:45] <narogon> i'm going to try again with digital
[12:39:11] <Jymmm> narogon: But works with keyboard, correct?
[12:39:14] <narogon> yes
[12:39:20] <narogon> with keyboard it's works
[12:39:22] <Jymmm> narogon: Solution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxxy6C0ErE
[12:41:17] <IchGuckLive> as i said ;-)
[12:41:50] <CaptHindsight> has anyone worked on a SCADA front end for Linuxcnc? I'd like to control things like stepper motors on gantries and have a simple UI.
[12:42:22] <narogon> i'm not sure i could use that Jymm due to i receive the information via Ethercat
[12:42:44] <narogon> I'm going to try with digital inputs
[12:42:45] <narogon> again
[12:43:45] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: i use only gantry style large mashines with stepeprs
[12:44:57] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: these are just small cranes
[12:45:51] <CaptHindsight> precision process control with cnc machines and assembly lines
[12:47:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: you trying to automate some processes?
[12:47:42] <IchGuckLive> so where is the hint only the UI
[12:47:48] <narogon> it doesn't work in digital for me neither IchGuckLive
[12:47:57] <narogon> only one axis at the same time
[12:48:01] <narogon> :S
[12:48:24] <narogon> in teleop mode
[12:48:29] <narogon> in joint mode it works
[12:49:30] <narogon> I'm using non trivial kinematics
[12:49:54] <narogon> could it be the reason it works for you?
[12:50:36] <IchGuckLive> then im off i got only triv mashines
[12:54:34] <Jymmm> narogon: You might post to the mailing list/forum
[12:55:24] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it's automation in general
[12:55:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: dont want to use classic-ladder?
[12:56:00] <narogon> would do you think is the best subforum to place it?
[12:56:26] <CaptHindsight> custom machines that may not have any cutting or puting tools, but have synchronized motion
[12:56:28] <narogon> advanced configuration i supposed
[12:57:32] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If they're synced, something has to control it, not necessarily a "dumb" device, is it?
[12:57:36] <CaptHindsight> ladder is too clunky, it needs a easy to see and use UI
[12:57:52] <Jymmm> ah, heh
[12:58:28] <CaptHindsight> lets say it's a gantry to load and unload parts to cnc mills
[12:59:27] <CaptHindsight> it's easy enough to use Linuxcnc to control the gantry but there's no UI for that
[13:00:00] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, when you said you didn't want the kludginess of CL, I understand what you mean, but wouldn't that be part of your gcode ?
[13:00:33] <CaptHindsight> well you could use AXIS and mod it to look like SCADA UI's
[13:01:25] <CaptHindsight> I'm looking at what to do
[13:02:02] <narogon> i post in the forum
[13:02:04] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz74dDW_c-c
[13:02:11] <narogon> thank you all for your help!! :D
[13:02:13] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: i use a simple m code for that and got a pyvcp button that loads the next part
[13:02:47] <IchGuckLive> its like a normal Ocode
[13:03:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: He did it in CL *shrug*
[13:04:05] <IchGuckLive> and the crane is UVW on top of YZ
[13:04:32] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: do you really need a "GUI", or will idiot lights do (AXIS LED's)?
[13:04:57] <CaptHindsight> SCADA-like UI for Linuxcnc that gives the user some simple control http://www.downloadcollection.com/graphics/largeimages/aggregate_scada_hmi-845380.png
[13:05:17] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it should look like the image above ^^
[13:05:31] <IchGuckLive> hi revo14 how is it in venzuela
[13:05:42] <revo14> hello
[13:05:46] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You have that much Screen real estate to play with?
[13:06:05] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: sure HD 1920 x 1080p
[13:06:24] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: is it interactive? What size screen 20" ?
[13:06:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationworld.com/sites/default/files/styles/lightbox/public/field/image/120723scada_web.png?itok=IlXV7wPd
[13:07:17] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what size screen?
[13:07:24] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yes, it should be interactive 19-23" touch LCD's are the common size panels
[13:08:15] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: And this is all for "in house" purposes?
[13:09:35] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: define "in house"
[13:09:49] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: internal use only
[13:10:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: not for customers/clients/ or the like
[13:10:20] <CaptHindsight> it's for anyone
[13:10:47] <CaptHindsight> but the easy to use UI is for the non-programmer
[13:11:27] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I get the "appeal" of it, but realisticlly from a Human UI perspective it kinda sucks. Sure it has bells and whistles, but eh.
[13:11:41] <CaptHindsight> that doesn't need to know every line of code, they just need to perform ON/OFF, change intervals between events, distance of movements etc
[13:11:55] <Jymmm> And not everything has to be "easy" to configure, this isn't legos =)
[13:12:05] <CaptHindsight> this needs to be
[13:12:05] <Jymmm> intuitive yes,
[13:12:14] <CaptHindsight> like legos
[13:12:30] <malcom2073> Hey Legos, I can 3d print that
[13:12:31] * malcom2073 runs
[13:12:44] <CaptHindsight> who can't :)
[13:12:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: and the back end being what, xml ?
[13:12:55] <IchGuckLive> malcom2073: lego got a ┬žD printer legobot
[13:13:05] <CaptHindsight> ghetto 3D glue gun
[13:13:06] <DaViruz> let's build a reprap out of legos
[13:13:08] <malcom2073> IchGuckLive: I saw the lego based pancacke printer heh
[13:13:10] <DaViruz> that can print legos
[13:13:14] <DaViruz> it's self replicating!
[13:13:18] <malcom2073> Lol DaViruz
[13:13:19] <CaptHindsight> also GGG
[13:13:23] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: and the back end being what, xml ?
[13:13:35] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: undecided
[13:13:59] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I'm trying to see whats been done, if anything with Linuxcnc
[13:13:59] <malcom2073> What do the UI's use to communicate with the linuxcnc backend, is it all done in NML?
[13:15:04] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: *I* have always hated xml, too bloated for my tastes. I prefer JSON. But, what *I* would do is make it native config from text (whatever flavor you decide), then pull those into GUI
[13:15:29] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Even if the user never see's the text aspects.
[13:15:57] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If you do this, when (not if) bugs come aroudn, you can isolate them down
[13:16:45] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: it would also make it easier to create new tools/objects/devices as blocks, maybe even by concat'ing them together
[13:17:04] <Jymmm> very much like you can do with PS files
[13:17:27] <saki`> hey all
[13:17:43] <IchGuckLive> Hi B)
[13:17:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You can even use SQLite to store this all in, and import/export as text any time you want.
[13:18:20] <saki`> does anyone here speak french?
[13:18:48] <IchGuckLive> saki`: im living on the french boarder in germany
[13:19:43] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: One of my biggest issues is you are not in control of SCADA, and if LIFE SAFETY is an issue, or a client needs a fix ASAP, you can CYA
[13:21:27] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: *I* just don't take the developers mentality of "will fix it maybe i the next release". See Also: Firefox Memory leaks for the last 5 years =)
[13:23:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Look at "SHUTDOWN PLANT" and "START PLANT" http://www.downloadcollection.com/graphics/largeimages/aggregate_scada_hmi-845380.png
[13:24:24] <CaptHindsight> even for lab automation, that was just an example
[13:24:38] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Since when are fingers these narrow wide things? The controls need to be the human sized/scaled
[13:25:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I understand, it was jusrt one example of Human UI I was taking about
[13:25:16] <Jymmm> talking*
[13:25:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Is see crap like that in Android UI too
[13:26:15] <saki`> hey so a friend of mine has been trying to get a case made for his keyboard
[13:26:45] <saki`> but the plans are in french, I just need to know what guage/thickness the aluminium sheet needs to be
[13:26:47] <saki`> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByfnZVaROQ7-VDZhM3VQU2dfWkFKbDE1VGJvWmVIZlE1OHlJ/edit?usp=sharing
[13:26:56] <saki`> if someone would be so kind
[13:27:00] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: But I suspect you have a client need, so good luck with it =)
[13:27:20] <Jymmm> saki`: google translate
[13:28:22] <CaptHindsight> heh I can't find the Linuxcnc flow chart
[13:28:30] <CaptHindsight> where is that hiding?
[13:28:57] <Jymmm> saki`: which page?
[13:31:11] <saki`> the first and second pages are the plans
[13:32:21] <saki`> Jymmm: "MATIERE : ALU G4 15-10" I suspect this is the specification but googling it doesn't yield any results
[13:37:04] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, did you google 'linux scada'? maybe the list of OpenSOurce SCADA apps at Sourceforge?
[13:37:05] <tjtr33> http://sourceforge.net/directory/science-engineering/scada/os:linux/freshness:recently-updated/ http://linuxscada.info/
[13:38:32] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: ALU G4 is 7025 Titan aluminum blank sheets
[13:39:29] <tjtr33> hehe free aint always easy http://xscada.narod.ru/
[13:42:18] <malcom2073> tjtr33: also: http://oscada.org/
[13:42:21] <malcom2073> heh, lots of them
[13:43:08] <tjtr33> over the years a boatload of scada and plc projects, many abandoned, some huge, lotsa work was done
[13:44:35] <tjtr33> malcom2073, that link shows the projet is from Ukraine, and has been pulled offline :( hope they are ok
[13:47:21] <tjtr33> and Visual, scada & hmi tools, i got a load of these bookmarks, surprised they still 'work' http://visual.sourceforge.net/new/index.php
[13:47:51] <tjtr33> its a swamp CaptHindsight !
[13:49:29] <skunkworks> matsurra is almost level and in location...
[13:54:32] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Just curious, is this a NEW control, or for an ADDITION to an existing one?
[13:58:01] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: YEOW.... ouch.... and this is from GE?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ5ky-T1Soc
[13:59:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Like I said, I get it (conceptually), but implementations really bite imnsho.
[14:15:54] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: been looking into http://openscada.org/
[14:17:04] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: expanding Linuxcnc to control machines other than machine tools
[14:17:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: fair enough =)
[14:17:35] <CaptHindsight> for example someone asked for a simple automated tabletop gantry to more parts around
[14:17:43] <CaptHindsight> more/move
[14:17:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: like a pick n place
[14:18:18] <Jymmm> as one exmaple I can think of
[14:18:22] <CaptHindsight> it's easy to have Linuxcnc control the few steppers on belt drives but what do you give them for a UI?
[14:18:46] <CaptHindsight> yeah, pick and place would be another
[14:18:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: CAD/CAM ?
[14:19:13] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what, when you say UI you mean form an operator or programmer perspective?
[14:19:18] <Jymmm> from*
[14:19:26] <Jymmm> and dont say both
[14:20:29] <Deejay> namd
[14:20:49] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: they are just not the same thing no matter how much one would like them to be.
[14:21:05] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: the operator non-programmer
[14:21:35] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Ok, so how much does the operator need to know/have/control? START/STOP?
[14:21:46] <CaptHindsight> programming can be anything, don't care
[14:22:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ok, so this parts mover of yours, is it precision plaement?
[14:22:36] <Jymmm> plcaement?
[14:22:40] <Jymmm> bah
[14:22:40] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: whatever limited features the people paying for it tell the programmer ON/OFF, intervals between movements, simple things
[14:23:15] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: but you want pretty pictures/animations etc?
[14:23:24] <CaptHindsight> +/- 1" placement :)
[14:23:52] <CaptHindsight> yeah just nice pics and animations with limited control
[14:24:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I guess what I'm asking is what do you want that a switch/button can't give you now?
[14:24:32] <Jymmm> switch/button/LED
[14:24:52] <CaptHindsight> it's not on a touchscreen that can be configured for whatever custom machine
[14:25:01] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I think you need to define that first, then go from there.
[14:25:21] <CaptHindsight> sure
[14:25:32] <Jymmm> sounds like you want an ipad UI
[14:25:41] <CaptHindsight> in some ways
[14:26:00] <CaptHindsight> from that to a 50" LCD
[14:26:09] <Jymmm> basically monkey controls
[14:26:15] <CaptHindsight> bingo
[14:27:08] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Ok, I want you to think about this for a moment.... "KISS doesn't imply a lack of complexity"
[14:28:12] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I had this conversation a long time ago, and that is a difficult concept to absorb at first.
[14:28:50] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Human UI is really a strange thing that I've studied for years.
[14:29:05] <CaptHindsight> it doesn't have to be just simple monkey controls, but that would be the low end
[14:29:19] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Sun Microsystems did a UI test with their employees once...
[14:29:47] <CaptHindsight> they have been mostly getting worse, too many kids with new but not better ideas
[14:30:10] <CaptHindsight> same with graphic design
[14:30:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: On their intranet they had a header navigation with five buttons.
[14:30:40] <CaptHindsight> gnome 2 vs gnome 3 etc
[14:31:07] <Jymmm> What they did was add a space between the buttons and the usability increased 600%. The issue was nobody realized they were actually controlls (buttons)
[14:31:53] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Adding animations, etc makes shiny things on the screen, but it can also bit you in the ass in overloading the user.
[14:32:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: So having a monkeyUI is more then (or less) than jjust "OH shiny thing" mentality.
[14:32:49] <CaptHindsight> what this might end up being is a UI builder for AXIS or similar
[14:33:07] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you're preaching to the choir here :)
[14:33:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You wil to tink outside the box for a bit and play with something?
[14:33:31] <Jymmm> think*
[14:34:05] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, at Timtos 2005 i chgd the sink edm software from Heidenhain Dialog to a picture of the part, and drag & drop crosshairs.
[14:34:15] <tjtr33> The user bomb sighted the approx posn, then a textedit box opened for him to edit the numbers and describe the operation wanted.
[14:34:16] <tjtr33> the code ended up still Heidenhain code, but the user had simple front end. ( the example was Brembo brake pads )
[14:34:50] <tjtr33> so the user saw something familiar , made no huge mistakes in dimensions, and was alloewed to edit the position and operation info
[14:34:56] <tjtr33> hth
[14:34:57] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: are you a programmer even if as-needed?
[14:35:17] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: yeah, applications like that
[14:36:05] <CaptHindsight> you don't know what the next machine will be but lots just need a simple UI vs the whole toolbox like AXIS
[14:36:44] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You willing to think outside the box for a bit and play with something?
[14:37:29] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I try to only compile with a soldering iron :)
[14:37:52] <tjtr33> hard to say, but maybe PVbrowser or OpenAPC. else plan on a load of software attempts ( too loosely defined )
[14:38:45] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I was looking at the SCADA tools since they have lots of UI design tools
[14:39:05] <CaptHindsight> and they have the drivers to talk to process controls
[14:39:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Play with the examples in Rebol-View, it's less than 1MB full install and just look at the code behind each example (right click) http://www.rebol.com/rebol-view.html
[14:40:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You can create all kind of things GUI wise in it, and it's now open source apache license.
[14:40:12] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: was looking at OpenAPC yesterday
[14:40:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: extremely light weight, and cross platform from same code.
[14:41:08] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: can be complied to an self-contained executable too.
[14:41:25] <Jymmm> single file exacutable
[14:41:34] <CaptHindsight> that's why I was looking for any previous projects that tied into Linuxcnc besides Comedi
[14:41:35] <Jymmm> like the old skool dos days
[14:42:12] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: 1.2KB calculator http://www.rebol.com/pre-view.html
[14:42:34] <Jymmm> and it's code http://www.rebol.com/view/demos/calculator.r
[14:43:09] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yeah those tools get you the UI but it doesn't have the backend into process controls and instrumentation
[14:43:33] <CaptHindsight> thats why I was looking at the different SCADA projects
[14:43:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Actually, yes it does. that is not JUST a GUI Generator, that's the FULL APPLICATION
[14:43:58] <CaptHindsight> ok, let me look again
[14:45:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: download rebol/view and play with it
[14:45:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: In some ways it's primitve/kludgy, but in other ways it's extremely light weight and straight forward.
[14:46:14] <Jymmm> biggest issue I hve is the docs are all over
[14:52:56] <tjtr33> i saw no internal hdwr i/o functions ( read write inb outb ) but if you can get your devices to write files with their status, and read files for changes, it could work
[14:53:19] <tjtr33> musiclessonz.com/rebol_tutorial.html
[14:54:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghDhZxidomc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4l_nSUTwKc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YJlKHwH7gs 3 different bending machines controlled by Linuxcnc
[14:55:02] <CaptHindsight> what UI to use?
[14:55:40] <CaptHindsight> well the first two videos anyway
[14:56:43] <tjtr33> is 2nd vid accordian buttons?
[14:58:32] <CaptHindsight> says: CNC wire bender I made for one of accordions manufacturer.
[15:01:05] <SpeedEvil> I guess the hardest part of making an automated bender is clearing all of the audio samples.
[15:01:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS5jOHWw_gA LinuxCNC rope cutting machine
[15:03:52] <SpeedEvil> Is that just to cut identical lengths of rope?
[15:15:45] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, lash up arduino controllers over the hdwr, control them over web page using Bitlash Commander, simple javascript gui web page.
[15:15:47] <tjtr33> i did an exerbike with it. https://github.com/billroy/bitlash-commander/wiki pedal too slow & i sent ascii cmds to dim lcd and lower volume on laptop.
[15:16:16] <tjtr33> can see the youtube video if you dont pedal fast enuf :)
[15:16:21] <tjtr33> canT
[15:16:52] <tjtr33> bbl
[15:20:18] <CaptHindsight> I was asking in the other channel about what to do for UI on Linuxcnc controlled machines that are not machine tools
[15:20:33] <CaptHindsight> wire bending, rope cutters, pick-n-place etc etc
[15:21:21] <CaptHindsight> I was looking at open source SCADA as well since they have the GUI builders and the backends with drivers for instrumentation and process control
[15:22:36] <CaptHindsight> what do you guys think? Try to use some open SCADA tools for custom GUI's or maybe write a tool to make customizing AXIS easy
[15:22:39] <CaptHindsight> or??
[15:23:28] <mozmck> have you looked at gscreen?
[15:24:47] <JT-Shop> CaptHindsight, you can just write a small GUI. Have you seen my examples and tutorials?
[15:25:02] <mozmck> gmoccapy?
[15:25:05] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: yeah was earlier today
[15:25:19] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: yes
[15:25:50] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: but was also considering the SCADA tools since they have the backends for process controls and instrumentation
[15:26:07] <CaptHindsight> morph SCADA with linuxcnc
[15:26:43] <mozmck> why use linuxcnc at all - isn't it way overkill for some of that stuff?
[15:27:42] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: what else to use to cnc control a bunch of motors (servos or steppers) that has a easy UI?
[15:29:47] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: say a machine like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4l_nSUTwKc
[15:29:47] <mozmck> I don't know! I was thinking you were talking about something a little simpler.
[15:29:53] * SpeedEvil wants to make a berry-picker
[15:30:21] <SpeedEvil> 'locate circular object of hue x' -> aim vacuum pickup tool at it. Remove berry.
[15:32:47] <CaptHindsight> yank until there's a sudden loss in tension
[15:32:52] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: interesting machine!
[15:33:33] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Gscreen is nice
[15:34:06] <CaptHindsight> I'll try this for a simple gantry crane
[15:34:30] <CaptHindsight> 2 steppers and belt actuators with a hook
[15:42:20] <_methods> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQO3IkQ0Lo
[15:42:43] <_methods> pretty damn spiffy
[15:45:10] <CaptHindsight> I use the audio from that video for my alarm clock
[15:49:17] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: did you see gmoccapy? http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26314-gmoccapy-a-new-screen-for-linuxcnc?limitstart=0
[15:49:58] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: Also there is a new Qt based gui being worked on at the machinekit site: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/machinekit/ghCyQMIpUW4
[15:50:26] <SpeedEvil> _methods: yours?
[15:52:39] <CaptHindsight> it's a the same problem for 3d printers (not ghetto glue guns). What GUI for SLA/LCD, SLS, DMLS etc?
[15:54:46] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: On those three videos, the last one has a windows "START" button =)
[15:55:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: did you try Rebol/View?
[16:00:13] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of 'linuxcnc thingies'
[16:00:26] <SpeedEvil> I'm contemplating a linuxcnc concrete mixer.
[16:01:38] <mozmck> how about a linuxcnc doorbell?
[16:01:54] <SpeedEvil> Well - more than that - a teeny batch high-speed concrete mixer which mixes a batch of concrete at about 100C very, very fast, then squirts it into a mould, sprinkles chips on top of it, tampsit down, and then tips it out of the mould several minutes later when it's set.
[16:04:14] <mozmck> Sounds like more of something for a microcontroller or PLC to me.
[16:05:01] <CaptHindsight> cnc concrete block maker
[16:05:51] <SpeedEvil> mozmck: Perhaps - I'munsure.
[16:06:11] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: will try that as well soon
[16:06:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: LOL, you could have done that by now =)
[16:06:35] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Sort-of. They're unusual concrete blocks. 1.2*0.6m or so is the design aim, 1.5cm thick, with chips fused to the top surface and strengthening members and keyhole fixings on the back
[16:07:08] <mozmck> I don't know either, but it doesn't sound like it would need much real motion control. Motors, switches/sensors, and timers?
[16:07:34] <SpeedEvil> Part of it is probably going to involve spreading patterns of chips
[16:07:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It's system independant, there's no real "install", more like "unzip and run"
[16:07:47] <SpeedEvil> And wires.
[16:14:27] <MattyMatt> will it vibrate the moulds too?
[16:15:30] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ward-3-capstan-turret-lathe/171334716326
[16:15:51] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt: Perhaps - though I think the elimination of air may avoid the need for that.
[16:16:02] <SpeedEvil> I'm mixing it under steam.
[16:18:27] <tjtr33> if this isnt too much bloat, skip linuxcnc, use pyvcp & hal ( or qtvcp or gladevcp or tcltkvcp ) gets you RT and Hal and diy gui ( not web page but gui for any size screen )
[16:35:05] <Deejay> gn8
[16:42:19] <tjtr33> Fet driver tester pyvcp & hal w/o linuxcnc ttp://imagebin.ca/v/1O0k6Ca8nlbg
[16:42:27] <Jymmm> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/tdm/telerobotics/telerobotics_overview.html
[16:42:46] <tjtr33> why does USA imagebin.org get id'd as an attack site?
[16:43:59] <tjtr33> robots with smartphones? danger will robinson danger danger (waves arms )
[17:12:39] <zeeshan> just you guys wait
[17:12:39] <zeeshan> im gonna spend a considerable amount of time on anice gui
[17:12:57] <uw> pix or didnt happn
[17:14:07] <zeeshan> can't wait to get the cnc running
[17:15:51] <CaptHindsight> http://tv.slashdot.org/video/?embed=c5MHYybjooHQt7q-uu9D5nkScJ90R93c opener source laptop with FPGA
[17:16:17] <Jymmm> uw: New CNC GUI http://www.digisensei.info/win3/win95.jpg
[17:16:48] <uw> lol Jymmm ....sharp
[17:17:01] <Jymmm> uwe_: Sorry, wrong one... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Windows_3.0_workspace.png
[17:18:15] <uw> oh win 3.0 is the new direction?
[17:18:20] <uw> sounds great
[17:18:35] <uw> maybe next it can be dos 5
[17:18:39] * JT-Shop is finally making progress on these parts... only 2 left
[17:18:50] <uw> parts?
[17:19:03] <JT-Shop> I make parts yes
[17:19:19] <Jymmm> uwe_: http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/2013-05/1368837904.or.80597.png
[17:19:25] <JT-Shop> I'm current making a dash power adapter for the Can Am Spyder RT
[17:19:55] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/spyderstore/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=55
[17:19:59] <Jymmm> power what?
[17:20:09] <uw> xeyes, swet
[17:20:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you're adding a USB port, that's it?
[17:21:19] <uw> i'd laugh but there's probably some bag who would buy it
[17:21:39] <Jymmm> buy what?
[17:21:49] <uw> the usb port/adapter
[17:22:24] <Jymmm> I did, 6 of em from the dollar store.
[17:22:42] <JT-Shop> USB or 12v your choice
[17:23:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'm confused, what parts have to be made to add a 12V port that wire and crimpons can't do?
[17:23:37] <JT-Shop> the black thing
[17:23:52] <Jymmm> the donut? what about it?
[17:24:14] <JT-Shop> did you read the description?
[17:24:39] <Jymmm> Yep
[17:24:57] <Jymmm> w/o replacing anything you can add a power port
[17:25:21] <JT-Shop> yea if you want it dangling from the battery
[17:25:51] <Jymmm> What could you plug into tthe DASH of a MC riding down the road?
[17:26:08] <Jymmm> gps?
[17:26:09] <JT-Shop> your GPS or your phone
[17:26:19] <Jymmm> And you have to mount the gps right?
[17:26:22] <JT-Shop> your heated undies
[17:26:38] <CaptHindsight> https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop jikes! $719,045 raised for that laptop
[17:26:40] <JT-Shop> yes, I make a mount for a GPS
[17:26:40] <uw> they make heated undies?
[17:26:42] <Jymmm> which would be better lugged in near the seat, not dash
[17:27:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: so you already have to drill for the mount, why not run cable up it?
[17:27:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: not arguing, just not seeing the practile side of a dash mounted port.
[17:28:21] <Jymmm> I figure the cables might interfer with other dashes
[17:28:59] <uw> whatever you make it, i would support it as long as it's not that stupid 12v cigartte adapter plug\
[17:29:03] <uw> that thing sucks
[17:29:12] <uw> it's time for it to go away
[17:29:45] <Jymmm> dual usb http://www.onboardwithmarkcorke.com/.a/6a010536216f64970b017ee9e6d917970d-400wi
[17:30:11] <Jymmm> uwe_: there's powerpoles
[17:30:44] <Jymmm> and I like having a cigarette lighter on a full dress bike
[17:30:55] <CaptHindsight> heh uwe_ is getting all the messages meant for uw :)
[17:31:00] <Jymmm> makes it convienant at 70mph
[17:31:12] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, it must be practical I sell the crap out of them
[17:31:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, eh.
[17:32:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you need to include a pic of it installed.
[17:32:16] <JT-Shop> a prototype http://www.gnipsel.com/images/Ram%20Mount%2013.jpg
[17:32:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I didn't realize that was YOUR site.
[17:32:28] <JT-Shop> yes I do
[17:32:35] <uw> thats wht i'm sayin it's the dumb little things people buy for some reas
[17:32:36] <JT-Shop> yes it is
[17:33:07] <Jymmm> Gawd that's a fugly dash
[17:33:22] <Jymmm> no style to it at all
[17:33:36] <uw> it's a canam...whta were you expecting?
[17:34:55] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, reload the store page
[17:36:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'd change the text to YELLOW or outline the red with white.
[17:36:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: tried to try rebol, after installing dependencies i still have some odd window face error. I'll try it on another system
[17:36:28] <uw> whats a good source for toothed belts and pulleys?
[17:36:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It "says" install, but it's really unzipping. what ver of windows?
[17:37:09] <Jymmm> uw: McMaster
[17:37:13] <CaptHindsight> was on Linux
[17:37:22] <Jymmm> ah
[17:37:23] <uw> Jymmm, that isn't $1000 per pulley...
[17:37:37] <Jymmm> uwe_: No, $2000
[17:38:08] <CaptHindsight> uw: http://www.sdp-si.com/
[17:40:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.amazon.com/Charger-Voltmeter-Digital-Marine-Carvan/dp/B00JUI7VW8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1K90ZZDEFA98F3ZQAK4X
[17:41:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Uh oh, bad review on the voltmeter (solo)
[17:41:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.amazon.com/WaterProof-Voltmeter-Accessory-Motorbike-Caravans/product-reviews/B00JROFO6A/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1
[17:42:28] <Jymmm> I still like it though, one hole mount!
[17:46:30] <uw> thanks CaptHindsight
[18:07:05] <Jymmm> SO, I had disconnected everything frm my portable propane heater, cleaned it off, blew out all the goo and getting ready to store it on it's nylon bag to keep dust/bugs out of it. As I begin to put it in the bag I see the ceramic element GLOWING ORANGE and I'm like OH SHIT IT'S ON AND HOT!
[18:07:57] <Jymmm> No, it was the sun shining from the side on to the neon orange bag I'm putting it in reflecting off the ceramic element =)
[18:10:50] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:11:11] <Jymmm> But I tell ya, it looked EXACTLY as it does when it's on LOW
[19:04:02] <XXCoder> woot
[19:04:16] <XXCoder> tomorrow I actually start working with cnc at work :D
[19:07:40] <zeeshan> nice
[19:09:13] <_methods> operating? or setup?
[19:13:52] <XXCoder> operating. basically I place stock,m secure it, l;oad up correct nc file then run it
[19:14:49] <_methods> right on
[19:14:55] <_methods> heh watch out for burrs
[19:15:22] <XXCoder> heh yeah been dealoing with em whple day today
[19:15:42] <_methods> well you hands get wet loading and unloading
[19:15:48] <_methods> then you get the shit cut out of you
[19:16:00] <_methods> always fun
[19:16:15] <_methods> better to bleed a little often than bleed a lot all at once i say though
[19:16:20] <XXCoder> life is risk, risk is life
[19:16:43] <_methods> hehe
[19:17:14] <XXCoder> infinite version - risk is life is risk is life ..... ...
[19:17:46] <_methods> you know what job you'll be running already?
[19:18:13] <XXCoder> yep, various airplane parts lol
[19:18:22] <XXCoder> I'll know more tomorrow
[19:19:46] <_methods> running a vertical mill?
[19:19:51] <XXCoder> you probably know but I also finally got ballscrews for my cnc :D just need to order few more stuff then done
[19:19:54] <XXCoder> nah cnc router
[19:20:03] <XXCoder> I guess size is 4' by 8 '
[19:20:09] <_methods> carbon fiber?
[19:20:17] <XXCoder> but only 4' by 4' is setup to work.
[19:20:21] <XXCoder> carbon fiber?
[19:20:26] <XXCoder> its monster of steel machine
[19:20:43] <XXCoder> but same basic design as many of home cnc routers out there lol
[19:20:48] <XXCoder> just big ass steel one
[19:20:59] <_methods> what material are you going to be cutting aluminum?
[19:21:18] <XXCoder> I suspect its why they have it, its cheap to fix if some trainee worker screws it up
[19:21:51] <XXCoder> they also has 3 other machines... one BIGASS cnc router I guess 6' by 15'? its larger than smaller cars
[19:22:11] <_methods> yeah that's a monster
[19:22:24] <XXCoder> and 2 of more typical corprate cnc machines, on standard and one more recent fancier one
[19:22:43] <XXCoder> yeah its large enough for 4-5 people bed lol
[19:22:58] <_methods> just regular 3 axis?
[19:23:11] <XXCoder> the big and even bigger ones? yeah
[19:23:27] <XXCoder> coprprate ones is more fancy with tool changer and stuff
[19:23:54] <_methods> sounds like fun
[19:24:09] <XXCoder> yeah
[19:24:30] <_methods> well you can ignore my burr comment earlier lol or the wet part
[19:24:38] <_methods> sounds like you'll be running dry on stuff like that
[19:24:50] <XXCoder> it do have oil stuff but I dont think it will use it that much
[19:24:55] <XXCoder> maybe dripper
[19:26:37] <XXCoder> they has hella lot scrap metal too but I cant take any bahh lol
[19:26:51] <XXCoder> they gonna make money back selling it
[19:26:54] <_methods> hehe gotta pay for the company parties somehow
[19:26:59] <XXCoder> yeppers lol
[19:27:24] <XXCoder> I saw few nice peices I could use, like small 3"x3"x1" alum block
[19:27:28] <XXCoder> but oh welkl
[19:28:01] <_methods> how long you been working there? after a while you'll probably be able to get some if you ask the right people
[19:28:18] <XXCoder> I'm on 5th week and nah not worried
[19:28:25] <_methods> oh yeah give it some time
[19:28:36] <XXCoder> I can get any wood from wood win, they actually pay people to get rid of it
[19:28:40] <XXCoder> so ligher the better lol
[19:28:44] <XXCoder> *bin
[20:08:37] <zq> hm
[20:08:44] <zq> what's the difference between a hal pin and param?
[20:08:55] <zq> operationally
[20:09:07] <cradek> you can link a pin to a signal
[20:10:55] <zq> so the pin's value itself lies somewhere in hal shm, right?
[20:11:06] <zq> as opposed to the heap or stack of a hal comp
[20:11:41] <zq> hal_pin_t-s are just pointers to those special spots in shm
[20:12:15] <zq> which leads to the question, do pins need to be hal_malloc-ed?
[20:12:19] <zq> i don't think so
[20:12:38] <zq> they're pointers to shared mem, not shared values themselves
[20:12:57] <zq> because i'm seeing a lot of haphazard hal_malloc-ing of pin pointers
[23:25:47] <Jymmm> Toilet is slow to drain
[23:26:18] <Jymmm> closet auger doesn't help
[23:27:13] <XXCoder> cherry bomb it
[23:27:25] <Jymmm> I really don't need to be on a 50yo roof at 9pm with a waterhose
[23:27:33] <XXCoder> seriously I heard of plants rooting into sewer pipes
[23:29:04] <XXCoder> if thats what happened it will slow down tiolet drain
[23:55:37] <Jymmm> Yeah, I've heard that too, and roots breaking sewer pipes too, not somethign I want to think about
[23:56:18] <Jymmm> espwially since we have a slumlord