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[01:56:16] <Jymmm> PCW: pcw_home I think you have some competition...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/logxen/smoothieboard-the-future-of-cnc-motion-control
[02:11:59] <Deejay> moin
[04:11:15] <MattyMatt> Jymmm, I think the built in 2A motor drivers limits the applications somewhat
[04:11:44] <MattyMatt> the smoothieware firmware will run on a beagleboard etc tho, if you want bigger
[04:42:34] <Tom_itx> more than likely came from the glue gun croud
[04:44:28] <Swapper_> doesent seem to have much of a use in converting existing industrial drivers.
[04:44:41] <Tom_itx> nope
[04:44:41] <Swapper_> 24v and +-10v handling
[04:44:49] <Tom_itx> more for powering your 'toys'
[04:44:53] <Swapper_> yep
[07:42:13] <Tom_itx> might be of interest to some here:
http://www.electronicproducts.com/Sensors_and_Transducers/Sensors/Watch_this_super-fast_bionic_arm_catch_objects_on_the_fly.aspx
[08:02:39] <Swapper_> who daviruz
[08:02:47] <Swapper_> ops
[08:03:21] <Swapper_> DaViruz: have you studied inonkoping?
[08:03:29] <Swapper_> in Jonkoping
[10:27:04] <MrHindsight> http://www.wallacecompany.com/pulse/ Linuxcnc pulse generator
[10:45:04] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I was being funny
[10:45:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Uh.... i, Robot comes to mind =)
[10:48:45] <MrHindsight> MattyMatt: I thought you were joking with the LPC176x Microcontroller board
[10:51:58] <MrHindsight> http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/LPC1769_68_67_66_65_64_63.pdf
[10:53:37] <MrHindsight> it makes even less sense than a
http://www.ti.com/product/am3359 SBC
[10:57:14] <ReadError> off topic, but I know alot of "you folks" hang around here
[10:57:29] <ReadError> anyone know a decent amount about PCBs/power ?
[10:58:03] <Jymmm> ReadError: As in how many watts you can shove on a trace?
[10:59:44] <ReadError> more so via diameter and plating thickness
[11:00:02] <ReadError> like, ive read conflicting things about if its better to have many smaller vias vs. larger ones
[11:00:13] <ReadError> assuming the plating is the same thickness
[11:00:17] <Jymmm> ReadError: Talk to JT-Shop, he did some "creative" things a ways back iirc
[11:03:09] <ReadError> yea seems to be a lot of different stuff floating around just wasnt sure if anyone heres done it, figured id ask
[11:06:51] <archivist> pcb design depends on lots of things including your intended makers ability
[11:07:18] <ReadError> yea, I got an inquiry in with them to find out via plating on 4oz
[11:14:58] <archivist> and you can design for cheap manufacture or expensive
[11:18:01] <ReadError> yea once you get up to 4oz stuff gets a bit more pricey
[11:31:30] <MrHindsight> http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/01/31/pcb-trace-width-calculator/
[11:31:50] <ReadError> trace isnt so much an issue
[11:32:10] <MrHindsight> http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/12/15/current-vs-trace-thickness-and-temperature-vs-copper-density/
[11:32:13] <ReadError> since top and bottom will be 4oz copper
[11:32:21] <ReadError> its connecting the top and bottom im pondering on
[11:32:37] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/TU6Giki.png
[11:32:42] <MrHindsight> the via current handling ability
[11:33:00] <MrHindsight> you can compute that as well
[11:33:13] <MrHindsight> you'll want them filled/plugged
[11:33:15] <ReadError> yea, but I need to figure out how thick they will plate them
[11:33:41] <ReadError> well the real thing is like, in terms of efficiency, many small vias or fewer larger ones
[11:33:47] <ReadError> thats where I was seeing conflicting info
[11:33:48] <MrHindsight> have to talk to the board house you are considering
[11:34:19] <MrHindsight> also price vs
[11:34:39] <MrHindsight> more small holes vs larger
[11:34:59] <ReadError> well, the place im looking at now its flat rate
[11:35:05] <ReadError> goldphoenix
[11:35:15] <MrHindsight> how many amps from top to bottom
[11:35:20] <ReadError> 15mil min hit
[11:35:24] <ReadError> well
[11:35:33] <ReadError> would like around 180a
[11:35:49] <ReadError> burst
[11:36:02] <MrHindsight> what thickness between top and bottom?
[11:36:21] <ReadError> default is the 1.6, but I could go down I guess
[11:36:33] <MrHindsight> 1.6mm?
[11:36:38] <ReadError> yea
[11:36:51] <MrHindsight> how many layers?
[11:36:54] <ReadError> just 2
[11:37:10] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/WjTANsE.png
[11:37:17] <ReadError> better pic of how the layers are
[11:37:23] <MrHindsight> whats the approximate size of that board?
[11:37:39] <ReadError> 36mm L and W
[11:38:12] <ReadError> so im also kind of torn, if I hammer more vias in would that effect the current flow to the big plated holes
[11:38:39] <MrHindsight> 180A and what duty cycle and freq?
[11:38:53] <ReadError> I could fit a bunch more on, its just trying to figure out the theory of diminishing return
[11:39:07] <ReadError> just DC, ~16.8V
[11:39:23] <ReadError> brushless ESCs
[11:40:37] <MrHindsight> what gets attached to the holes?
[11:40:45] <ReadError> silicone wire
[11:43:25] <MrHindsight> 16.8V x 180A = ~3KW, that's why i asked the duty cycle and freq
[11:45:22] <MrHindsight> I'd probably use a solid copper slug between layers
[11:46:53] <MrHindsight> do you have to use a board for this?
[11:49:30] <pcw_home> no easy way to do 180A on a small PCB even 4 Oz copper would be too wide
[11:50:27] <archivist> from whatI have seen they just make them to only just work and a percentage of esc's die
[11:50:29] <MrHindsight> he said 180A peak, but no idea what the duty cycle is
[11:51:43] <pcw_home> well "burst" into flames....
[11:53:16] <MrHindsight> 180A for 4oz copper with 25C ambient and 100C rise requires 62.3mm wide trace
[11:53:48] <Einar1> Use a busbar?
[11:54:14] <MrHindsight> but that's for continuous power
[11:55:13] <MrHindsight> 10A average current with 1uS spikes to 180A every second is another story
[11:55:23] <Einar1> Around 60mm wide. OK, but what will the current density be where this current enters and leave the wide track?
[11:56:28] <MrHindsight> depends on how many vias he uses and size
[11:56:41] <MrHindsight> that's what he is wondering
[11:56:45] <pcw_home> the heat conduced away by the wire helps
[11:57:07] <ReadError> well, ive done 100+ on a 2oz copper board
[11:57:11] <MrHindsight> yeah, thats why you have to look at the whole design not just the pcb
[11:57:17] <archivist> it is a race between the electrons, smoke and heat to see which escapes first
[11:57:45] <Einar1> ? What size wire? At 180A we're talking copper rod! :-O
[11:58:13] <MrHindsight> for continuous current
[11:58:41] <archivist> for pulse and low duty cycle it should be ok
[11:58:55] <pcw_home> if it only has to last an hour or so just design so the solder doesn't melt
[11:59:29] <pcw_home> 2 oz and 100A at 100C rise is 50mm wide
[11:59:33] <Einar1> And use large vias with rivets in them.
[11:59:45] <zeeshan-laptop> hi friends
[12:00:02] <MrHindsight> flip the switch on any of your appliance motors at home and measure the inrush current in the first mS
[12:00:03] <pcw_home> (and no one that wanted things to last would spec a 100C rise)
[12:01:20] <MrHindsight> well whatever size silicone coated wire is used should also be fine as the vias
[12:01:40] <Einar1> I question the sanity of driving a 3KW load with 16.8V anyway. I would raise the voltage considerably.
[12:01:53] <ReadError> Einar1, its fairly common
[12:02:01] <ReadError> lipos can push out pretty decent current
[12:02:31] <Einar1> The efficiency will suffer greatly. And EMC will be a nightmare.
[12:04:22] <MrHindsight> we get away with 2oz copper on 4 layer boards for 100A core supplies (~1V) for motherboards
[12:07:18] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:07:20] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:07:52] <MrHindsight> another BBQ day in Deutschland? :)
[12:08:45] <pcw_home> Yeah but how wide is the plane?
[12:08:48] <IchGuckLive> yes its on
[12:09:16] <IchGuckLive> MrHindsight: party is starting whinin the hour
[12:11:02] <MrHindsight> I've been trying to find a non-NDA pcb layout for x86
[12:11:14] <MrHindsight> or a design guide
[12:14:37] <MrHindsight> http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/design-guides/pentium-4-845-chipset-platform-for-sdr-guide.pdf ~page #180
[12:15:11] <MrHindsight> anyone doing high current or high speed PCB design should read these
[12:18:12] <MrHindsight> http://www.epectec.com/articles/heavy-copper-pcb-design.html
[12:20:32] <MrHindsight> 1/4" wide track needs 40oz copper for 180A at 20 C rise
[12:22:13] <pcw_home> 40oz copper is thicker than a normal PCB...
[12:23:00] <MattyMatt> place I'm looking at gives a choice of 30 and 60
[12:28:29] <MattyMatt> 1oz or 2oz I mean which iirc is 30 and 60 µm
[12:29:47] <ReadError> see im not really trusting a lot of these #s im getting on calculators
[12:29:58] <ReadError> ive done much more on much less and didnt get hot
[12:31:03] <MrHindsight> probably not continuous power then, those are for calculating DC full current
[12:31:59] <deMimsy> Iwas reading <
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/python-interface.html> and under section 4, it states that commands can only be set under certain cases. Is there a current running doc that states what tests need to be checked before each command?
[12:33:08] <deMimsy> The reason I ask is because I am geting a lot of errors when trying to open and run g-code programs when calling them from my python interface
[12:34:11] <pcw_home> also if you have a small PCB and large wires soldered to it you get a lot of heat sinking from the wires
[12:36:07] <ReadError> plus this has a decent amount airflow
[12:36:13] <ReadError> maybe why I havent noticed any meltdown
[12:36:23] <mozmck> for that kind of power, shouldn't you just use wires?
[12:37:51] <ReadError> nah its a huge pain
[12:42:34] <Jymmm> Did you know... Ebay has a "FEEDBACK EXTORTION" policy
[12:42:57] <Jymmm> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html
[12:43:54] <ReadError> I heard powersellers cant leave negative feedback now?
[12:45:06] <Jymmm> A seller promised a refund without returning a defective product if I leave them feedback. I left he feedback but they never refunded payment and it was past the 30 day ebay money back guarntee, but withint the 60 day return time.....
[12:45:53] <Jymmm> There is actually a section in Ebay's Customer Service where you can CALL ebay and they just wrote the seller directly that they promised a refund, but haven't done so.
[12:46:22] <Jymmm> Took ike 20 seconds to answer the phone, and was VERY helpful
[12:46:33] <Jymmm> I was impressed.
[12:46:45] <mozmck> That's certainly different than they used to be.
[12:47:04] <Jymmm> But, I made sure to document everything in my communications with the seller.
[12:47:21] <Jymmm> which ebay has access to of course =)
[12:47:32] <mozmck> Their fees are so high overall these days it's almost more trouble than it's worth to list anything there.
[12:48:05] <Jymmm> I haven' sold on ebay in years due to that.
[12:48:06] <mozmck> I don't see how sellers can sell items for $1 or 2 and make anything.
[12:48:37] <Jymmm> Ha, I see $1 and free shipping, no clue how that is done in the least.
[12:48:50] <mozmck> I've sold some recently just to get rid of some stuff taking up space, but Ebay takes a lot of it.
[12:49:10] <mozmck> Some of the stuff I would have been better off taking down to the scrap yard.
[12:49:56] <Jymmm> My biggest bitch isn't the money, it's the integrity of the seller in this case.
[12:50:01] <mozmck> ja
[12:50:22] <Jymmm> They stopped responding to messages and no longer do I get the autoresponder emails fro them
[12:50:41] <Jymmm> so they've filtered me out in essense
[12:50:52] <Jymmm> Homey don't play that!
[12:51:17] <IchGuckLive> deMimsy: sounds your python code is wrong did you start from a simple python in the wikipedia
[12:51:53] <Jymmm> I had described the problem and said "Please advise", I never asked for a refund/replacement, THEY offered the refund w/o returning the item for feedback. FYI
[12:54:20] <Jymmm> Man, I wish I could include in all communications a copy of "Cool Hand Luke" =)
[12:55:35] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o
[12:56:18] <Jymmm> "What we have here... is a failure... to communicate"
[12:58:35] <jdh> like?
[12:59:00] <Jymmm> jdh: ?
[12:59:31] <jdh> nevermind me.
[12:59:51] <Jymmm> jdh: In the context above, the seller blew me off and thought ignoring me would make me go away.... the WRONG thing to do with me =)
[13:00:03] <jdh> but to your earlier comment... I just ordered 5 presta adapters on ebay. $1.25 shipped.
[13:00:31] <Jymmm> Oh yeah, no clue how they do that.
[13:00:49] <Jymmm> I *WISH* I knew how or could actually do that.
[13:00:50] <jdh> .cn subsidizes shipping and currency exchanges afaik
[13:01:17] <Jymmm> Sure, but there's still packaging, labeling, printing, etc, plus the cost of the actual items themselves.
[13:02:26] <Jymmm> Here in the US, the cheapest is 48¢ for postage alone, plus label/envelope
[13:02:56] <Jymmm> add printing costs
[13:03:39] <ReadError> yea not sure how some of the chinese do stuff so cheap
[13:04:33] <Jymmm> Next time I get a pkg from .cn I'm going to have to run it thru a translater to see the cost of package onthe pkg.
[13:04:45] <Jymmm> it's in Kanji
[13:05:26] <Jymmm> jdh: Maybe they dont get charged postage at all? Free?
[13:05:56] <jdh> yeah. maybe more than free
[13:06:20] <Jymmm> But somehow get screwed by the gov in some other way
[13:07:29] <Jymmm> Ah, I wonder if they just have to brie officials to get the free shiping
[13:07:36] <Jymmm> bribe*
[13:07:52] <Jymmm> That would make sense, and I think it's very common to do so.
[13:08:41] <Jymmm> At least the bribe is flat rate =)
[13:08:51] <Jymmm> ...monthly
[13:09:29] <Jymmm> Then it would be up to the seller to make theri monthly quota to pay the bribe plus any profit margin
[13:10:09] <Jymmm> So then you could sell at any rate or fees, as long as you remained in the black.
[13:10:29] <Jymmm> 2¢ profit, is still profit in volume.
[13:12:37] <ReadError> the crazies prices are on taobao.com
[13:12:41] <ReadError> its like the chinese ebay
[13:13:03] <Jymmm> $0.02 profit * 5000 sales = $100 of net profit
[13:14:23] <ReadError> they get sooo many holidays too
[13:14:25] <Jymmm> ReadError: all in kanji
[13:14:41] <ReadError> but it seems like they work every day of the week
[13:14:50] <Jymmm> ReadError: Huh? they have a week during chinese new years is all I know.
[13:14:52] <ReadError> atleast some places
[13:14:57] <MrHindsight> taobao.com prices are often not the actual price, many sellers just post low prices for attention
[13:14:58] <ReadError> nah, theres much more
[13:14:58] <jdh> I thought kanji was japanese
[13:15:14] <Jymmm> jdh: and chinese
[13:15:18] <MrHindsight> there price ends up being low, just not crazy low
[13:15:30] <ReadError> MrHindsight, ya you have to end go by their rating
[13:15:39] <ReadError> and as an american I need to use a broker
[13:15:49] <ReadError> which adds to the price...but still some stuff it worth it
[13:15:52] <MrHindsight> 3 alphabets in Japan, one is borrowed from the Chinese
[13:16:14] <Jymmm> ReadError: Ali now accepts paypal, so you are under that instead of TT/WU now
[13:16:21] <Jymmm> TT = screwed
[13:16:47] <ReadError> Jymmm, www.bhiner.com
[13:17:13] <ReadError> they will broker
[13:17:20] <Jymmm> ah
[13:17:35] <ReadError> im confused about all these ali*
[13:17:40] <ReadError> aliexpress
[13:17:42] <ReadError> alibaba
[13:19:12] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm looking at an item on aliexpress, $50 USD + free shipping to USA, delivery within 26 days, returns accepted, and they say refund or keep item and agree to refund amount.
[13:19:35] <Jymmm> http://www.aliexpress.com/buyerprotection/index.html
[13:19:54] <Jymmm> You can get a full refund if your item is significantly different from the seller’s description
[13:19:55] <Jymmm> or You can choose a partial refund and keep the product.
[13:20:37] <IchGuckLive> im off to BBQ BYE till tiomorrow
[13:27:16] <ReadError> oh aliexpress is legit
[13:27:21] <ReadError> ive dealt with them
[13:27:27] <ReadError> they actually dont pay the seller
[13:27:31] <ReadError> until you say everything is good
[13:36:57] <Jymmm> Yeah, they seem legit to me.
[13:38:02] <Jymmm> I was kinda scared buying from Kai (like DX), but they were actually pretty good and even asked for feedback on my exp with them a week after I Rx the item
[13:50:04] <deMimsy> If I have not specificially instructed linuxcnc to exit auto_mode, is there any reason why it would switch over to manual?
[14:06:44] <_methods> http://linuxgizmos.com/pico-itx-sbc-taps-6w-g-series-soc-adds-modular-io/
[14:07:16] <_methods> got full pcie slot
[14:21:04] <eneuro> Hello, just run latest linuxcnc sim with Axis 2.4.5 under VirtualBox and it works, but is it possible to exchange those X green & Y red axis colors?
http://tinypic.com/r/dq1w8i/8 I'd like to have X red Y green Z blue like in many CAM tools, but can not find any option in Axis to do that?
[14:24:04] <jdh> change your CAM tool to match axis.
[14:24:47] <cradek> I am shocked to find that yes you can customize those
[14:25:15] <cradek> you can set the colors in your x resources database
[14:25:33] <jdh> cool. X does r0ck sometimes
[14:26:12] <cradek> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/usr_intf/axis/etc/axis_light_background;h=7382754aaeb83440055fc990a85508f588e9ffb4;hb=13395a127fe82d02619e96cc56e369fdcf36c86a
[14:26:31] <cradek> this is some or all of the things you can set that way
[14:27:50] <eneuro> I wrote my own CAE in OpenGL and set it to Red Green Blue, while it simply matches to... RGB and it is easy to watch when switch beetween my CAE & sim ;)
[14:28:50] <DaViruz> Swapper_: i don't know what's inonkoping is
[14:29:03] <DaViruz> -'s
[14:33:57] <eneuro> Thx. It is cool, it is possible to customize this B-)
[14:35:54] <Einar1> DaViruz: I think he meant --->
https://www.google.no/maps/preview?q=j%C3%B8nk%C3%B8ping&ie=UTF-8&ei=SmR2U_rjCsfk4QS42YAY&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
[14:36:15] <DaViruz> i see
[14:36:23] <DaViruz> been there a couple times, never studied there
[14:36:50] <Einar1> Do you live in Sweden?
[14:37:16] <DaViruz> yes
[14:37:47] <Einar1> Ahh. My neighbour then. ;-)
[14:38:04] <DaViruz> https://www.google.no/maps/place/Avesta/@60.140498,16.199,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x465de4b24ab6d509:0x95adb42dbab41716
[14:38:08] <DaViruz> there.. :)
[14:38:10] <DaViruz> oh?
[14:39:29] <Einar1> --->
https://www.google.no/maps/place/Ski/@59.7164779,10.8401565,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x46415cfd64894f8b:0x903a9225f6021eec
[14:40:08] <Einar1> 418Km from you...
[14:41:27] <DaViruz> oh. only been to oslo and bergen
[14:42:00] <DaViruz> sorry, drammen, not bergen
[14:43:27] <Einar1> I got my 2 roller screws today. I can't believe the freight cost at 19100Won = USD 18.61 from Korea to Norway! It would cost me more to send it to the next town here!
[14:43:55] <DaViruz> yeah, sweden postal service is pretty expensive too
[14:44:21] <Einar1> Oslo->Drammen 1hour drive. Oslo -> Bergen 7 hours. ;-)
[14:45:13] <Einar1> He offers most of his stuff freight free. At those rates I can understand it.
[14:45:13] <DaViruz> i tend to confuse them. i'm not sure why.. :)
[14:47:37] <Einar1> You don't confuse them when you meet them. They say about people from Bergen they can't swim. They don't know how to keep their mouth shut.
[14:48:59] <DaViruz> i'm a pretty lousy swimmer
[14:49:55] <DaViruz> i can stay afloat, and i can move in a desired directino, but not very efficiently.. :)
[15:37:45] <deMimsy> Is there a way to not exit AUTO_MODE when done running a program?
[16:00:47] <Tom_itx> leave off the M2 / M30 command at the end?
[16:16:44] <Deejay> gn8
[16:17:49] <miss0r> I have here my newly acquired Arboga u2508 mill/drill machine. I want to get a tool collect for it. I read somewhere on the Internet 'as a footnote' that this guy uses a MT3 collect. But I have no way to verify that I can get one of these and it will fit. Do any of you know what I should get, so that I can get ER25 or something in that order?
[16:17:59] <miss0r> Or some way to measure / determin what to do
[16:30:37] <eneuro> cradek: Succesfully changed those axis XYZ colors in linuxcnc to red, green, blue exchanging xy properties you showed with "$ xrdb -load ~/.axis.xrdb" command, and added ~/.axis.xrdb B-)
http://tinypic.com/r/15himu9/8
[17:03:47] <Jymmm> cheech and chong on CBS
[21:11:39] <Connor> Anyone heard of using a touch probe that doesn't give you the ability to calibrate it for concentrically ? Guy claims you calibrate it via your control software....
[21:15:05] <jdh> seems like that would lack repeatability unless you could ensure spindle orientation each time.
[21:15:16] <Connor> That was my thinking...
[21:17:20] <jdh> sounds like a cheap whatever.
[21:17:21] <Connor> This one...
http://www.performancemotion.com/products.shtml
[21:18:07] <XXCoder1> heh got no idea how that probe works
[21:18:18] <jdh> like all the others
[21:18:20] <XXCoder1> I guess by slowly moving till touch
[21:18:47] <Connor> XXCoder1: That's how they all work.. but, they need to be concentric to the spindle.. or they're useless for edge/center finding.
[21:18:50] <jdh> tilting or pressing the tip breaks continuity
[21:19:21] <XXCoder1> define concetric to spidle - probe axis aligns with spidle axis?>
[21:19:47] <Connor> the tip of the probe is aligned in the X and Y center of the spindle.
[21:20:06] <XXCoder1> ok got it
[21:21:49] <FrankZappa> http://i.imgur.com/W1aBQdL.jpg
[21:21:56] <FrankZappa> inspirational quote
[21:22:06] <XXCoder1> yep
[21:22:27] <FrankZappa> unfortunately, sometimes the goal requires people and/or objects.
[21:22:47] <XXCoder1> Anyway related to cnc building. I am thinking on making Z gear and rails box first, so I can think on how to design Y around it, then X around rest
[21:22:51] <FrankZappa> nobody can specialize in everything that they need to, in order to generally innovate.
[21:22:52] <XXCoder1> what you guys think
[21:23:20] <FrankZappa> do you have the tooling?
[21:23:25] <FrankZappa> sorry
[21:23:27] <FrankZappa> the tools
[21:23:33] <FrankZappa> that the z axis will hold?
[21:23:54] <XXCoder1> not yet lol I plan to buy a router first before I even begin of course
[21:24:06] <XXCoder1> I might grab router that has range 8 rpm to 20,000 rpm
[21:24:10] <XXCoder1> errr
[21:24:14] <XXCoder1> 8k to 20k rpm
[21:24:15] <humble_sea_bass> did you draw everything in cad at least
[21:24:26] <humble_sea_bass> measure twice cut once
[21:24:29] <FrankZappa> my opinion is that it's okay to design linearly, as long as you use the best possible foresight. Your method doesn't, because it doesn't start at the start.
[21:24:37] <XXCoder1> humble I did, but then I might change design idea. and yep I know that motto
[21:24:56] <humble_sea_bass> dont lick the table saw blade
[21:25:07] <FrankZappa> 1) what materials do you wish to work on this cnc 2) what tools work them to your satisfaction 3) will this machine be built with plans for enlargement ever
[21:25:08] <XXCoder1> frank yeah I probably will do new cad design first see how well design works
[21:25:11] <FrankZappa> those kinds of things
[21:25:11] <humble_sea_bass> don't write your name on tools when you work at high elevations
[21:25:26] <FrankZappa> start at the start.
[21:25:38] <XXCoder1> I want it to be quite rigid so thinking boxed gantry
[21:25:39] <FrankZappa> otherwise, wait, and keep the whole design fluid until you commit.
[21:25:56] <humble_sea_bass> in practice, you always change things along the way
[21:26:00] <jdh> then buy a chinese 6040
[21:26:01] <FrankZappa> (that was the nature of your question)
[21:26:27] <FrankZappa> humble_sea_bass has my vote.
[21:26:29] <XXCoder1> yeah. before quite nothing was rigid. now lengths are rigid
[21:26:47] <XXCoder1> 300mm for z, 600mm for x and y
[21:26:50] <FrankZappa> XXCoder1 if you're going to box yourself in, USE PLANNING
[21:26:56] <XXCoder1> lol
[21:27:10] <humble_sea_bass> xx, i learned that my OCD wants perfect before i start, but i learn more by going full thoughtful hog and perhaps not having the most optimal design
[21:27:15] <FrankZappa> what mat'ls?
[21:27:27] <XXCoder1> wood and high quality lamated wood
[21:27:33] <XXCoder1> both free so yeah
[21:27:35] <FrankZappa> okay so then what tools will work them?
[21:27:36] <humble_sea_bass> it may cost a bit of money to redo it, but you've learned so much more
[21:27:41] <FrankZappa> Milling bits?
[21:27:44] <XXCoder1> I might do partial metal frame
[21:27:47] <FrankZappa> Reciprocal saws?>
[21:27:53] <FrankZappa> dremel tips?
[21:27:56] <XXCoder1> it'll be cnc router
[21:28:06] <FrankZappa> router bits only?
[21:28:17] <XXCoder1> I plan to start with shitty wood and router bits yes
[21:28:40] <FrankZappa> And those replies won't change in the near future, say 2-3 years?
[21:28:43] <XXCoder1> I need to learn a lot before I get serious and actually buy 8020 and such lol
[21:29:23] <FrankZappa> ...
[21:29:24] <XXCoder1> I made huge progress at training job so 2 weeks later I start basic cnc machinist job lol (no real designing, just load up file and such I guess)
[21:29:32] <humble_sea_bass> you never learn until you fuck up good and proper
[21:29:39] <FrankZappa> false
[21:29:40] <XXCoder1> humble exactly!
[21:29:48] <XXCoder1> thats why I got cheap stuff
[21:29:51] <FrankZappa> Intelligence is learning from your mistakes.
[21:29:56] <XXCoder1> I'm sure I will break stuff and learn
[21:30:00] <FrankZappa> Wisdom is learning from other people's mistakes.
[21:30:17] <FrankZappa> I never had to touch a hot stove to believe mom.
[21:30:25] <XXCoder1> lol
[21:30:31] <FrankZappa> some people have to wipe the paint when they see the sign that it's wet, I guess.
[21:30:45] <XXCoder1> yeah. thankully not me :P
[21:34:44] <XXCoder1> anyway yeah I'm still missing parts so I cant build it yet
[21:34:55] <XXCoder1> for example I has no ball screw system
[21:35:29] <jdh> chai can fix that
[21:35:48] <XXCoder1> no
[21:35:58] <XXCoder1> MONEY can fix that :P just dont have it yet.
[21:39:27] <FrankZappa> XXCoder1 I was telling you: listen to systems planners who've been there if you're asking people for a path forward
[21:39:48] <XXCoder1> ok
[21:39:50] <FrankZappa> "who've been there, if "
[21:39:57] <FrankZappa> my point is
[21:40:08] <FrankZappa> you don't want to be in a situation where you design and build your z axis
[21:40:10] <FrankZappa> with a holder
[21:40:25] <XXCoder1> it'll be a bit though lol I have money but its still on hold while my biz package travels to customer
[21:40:28] <FrankZappa> and with a certain ability to maintain position
[21:40:33] <XXCoder1> if it somehow gets lost I have to refun.
[21:40:44] <FrankZappa> then later, you decide whoa I would REALLY like to mount that plasma torch in my cnc
[21:40:52] <FrankZappa> and whoops, you can't
[21:41:00] <FrankZappa> because your early-built Z is too dinky
[21:41:12] <FrankZappa> that's what my earlier line of inquiry was designed to assist in avoiding.
[21:41:24] <XXCoder1> my first cnc wouldnt be very flexiable. and quite junky. best just for artwork and such
[21:41:32] <FrankZappa> then build.
[21:41:35] <FrankZappa> go for it.
[21:41:43] <FrankZappa> just use cheap/free shit
[21:41:48] <XXCoder1> when I have more funds and such I'lkl follow tough 8020 design I found online. by then I has most parts
[21:41:49] <FrankZappa> and you won't regret it
[21:41:54] <XXCoder1> indeed.
[21:42:06] <FrankZappa> are you a decent social engineer?
[21:42:15] <XXCoder1> even cheap it'll take me a bit. I has entire electrics and rail system. no ball screw system yet
[21:42:24] <XXCoder1> social engineer - deals with people?
[21:42:27] <FrankZappa> yes
[21:42:41] <XXCoder1> I can, but many people dont care to deal with "that deaf person"
[21:42:47] <FrankZappa> if so, you could scam some parts by just asking for sample components
[21:42:56] <FrankZappa> then design around whatever you can get :)
[21:43:15] <FrankZappa> or do something stupidly labor-intensive
[21:43:19] <FrankZappa> take tons of photos
[21:43:23] <FrankZappa> get your blog popular
[21:43:32] <FrankZappa> then get sponsored to make another one.
[21:43:40] <FrankZappa> that kind of bullshit.
[21:43:48] <XXCoder1> nice idea lol
[21:43:49] <FrankZappa> it's not really conning or bullshit bullshit.
[21:44:00] <FrankZappa> it's just level-1 bullshit.
[21:44:03] <XXCoder1> I just post pics to fb page :P not too fancy
[21:44:27] <FrankZappa> if the mark realizes it, they might say, "eh, he has some gear and is making things."
[21:44:49] <FrankZappa> Anybody reading this know the history of the printed word?
[21:44:53] <FrankZappa> (in the west)
[21:45:12] <FrankZappa> it's fastinating, and relates to you, XXCoder1
[21:45:19] <XXCoder1> got link?
[21:45:21] <FrankZappa> t=c
[21:45:27] <FrankZappa> I'll just type it
[21:45:37] <FrankZappa> So there was Johannes Gutenberg
[21:45:43] <FrankZappa> who invented movable type
[21:45:51] <FrankZappa> which enabled "mass" printing
[21:45:57] <XXCoder1> yeah
[21:46:03] <FrankZappa> of things that had to be "letterset" on press
[21:46:28] <FrankZappa> essentially, Gutenberg was like a machinist-entrepreneur
[21:46:37] <FrankZappa> a merchant who wished to be aristocratic
[21:47:18] <FrankZappa> He wanted to borrow a lot of money to buy fine clothes, housing, food, and drink, from the aristocracy
[21:47:22] <FrankZappa> so he swung some deals and made some impossible promises
[21:47:33] <FrankZappa> the chickens came home to roost on his line of bullshit
[21:47:48] <FrankZappa> so he whipped out the "cast some lead characters and print thme" idea
[21:47:59] <FrankZappa> (them)
[21:48:10] <FrankZappa> he was actually being pursued by his rich backers
[21:48:28] <FrankZappa> not unlike a mobster would pursue a shop owner who hadn't paid the extortion fee
[21:48:44] <FrankZappa> so at the last second, he machined up the first printing press
[21:48:49] <FrankZappa> and debuted it to his creditors
[21:48:57] <FrankZappa> He made a fortune, of course.
[21:49:12] <FrankZappa> the other thing was like alchemy or something, not remembering right now
[21:49:17] <FrankZappa> like transmuting lead to gold
[21:49:55] <XXCoder1> lol that old bullshit
[21:50:00] <FrankZappa> (story over)
[21:50:16] <XXCoder1> in theory you could just knock few elctrons off and make lead gold
[21:50:33] <XXCoder1> but in real world..
[21:53:25] <FrankZappa> my source is James Burke
[21:53:42] <FrankZappa> hist tv show, Connections, (the original series) episode 4: "Faith in Numbers"
[21:53:54] <FrankZappa> I can't find it on youtube
[21:53:56] <XXCoder1> ih I'm wrong
[21:54:00] <FrankZappa> only links have been deleted
[21:54:12] <XXCoder1> gold has 3 fewer protons than lead
[21:54:27] <XXCoder1> so just knock 3 protons and you got gold that was lead
[21:55:05] <FrankZappa> WAIT FOUNDIT
[21:55:52] <XXCoder1> I really hope for real and cheap way to convert lead to gold.
[21:56:04] <XXCoder1> gold is FAR more useful than that poisonous metal
[21:57:27] <FrankZappa> Here's your source, if you have about ten mins to watch. www.youtube.com/watch?v=91H4NPdRkxo&list=PLMNa_9j-t_z4CDoRqzcFqbrJ0ZvQP2B2a&index=7&t=22m34s
[21:58:33] <XXCoder1> not captioned but watching it anyway.
[21:59:34] <XXCoder1> interesting machines.
[22:01:49] <FrankZappa> you can't hear?
[22:02:03] <XXCoder1> yeah. for last 38 years. or all my life lol
[22:02:09] <FrankZappa> ok, sorry
[22:02:16] <FrankZappa> then it doesn't functino as a reference to you
[22:02:17] <XXCoder1> why?
[22:02:19] <FrankZappa> *function
[22:02:23] <XXCoder1> oh np lol
[22:17:32] <somenewguy> gonna use a tiny ball mill for the first time in some alu tomorrow, any tips?
[22:17:56] <somenewguy> only ever used square endmills, but i need a round channel, so 3d profiling it is!
[22:38:22] <XXCoder1> interesting.
[22:38:23] <XXCoder1> http://jct250.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/electrolytic-rust-removal/
[22:42:19] <FrankZappa> electrolytic rust removal
[22:42:25] <XXCoder1> yep
[22:42:26] <FrankZappa> guys should have charged their batteries
[22:43:00] <FrankZappa> and burned any gases
[22:43:12] <FrankZappa> used said burning to turn turbines
[22:43:12] <XXCoder1> though I was wondering about exopxy stone thingy
[22:43:43] <XXCoder1> making new cnc bed with it that is lol
[23:14:27] <Anonymoose> Is anyone here familiar with the K179 controller?
[23:15:22] <Anonymoose> I'm at the local makerspace trying to get their cnc mill going and am having lots of trouble, lol
[23:49:03] <zeeshan> woohooo
[23:49:04] <zeeshan> getting closer
[23:49:44] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/hQZav
[23:49:50] <zeeshan> z axis motor mounted
[23:50:08] <zeeshan> working on the floating side support bracket now
[23:50:47] <XXCoder1> nema32?
[23:51:03] <zeeshan> 34
[23:51:09] <XXCoder1> oh yes
[23:53:54] <XXCoder1> anyway cool
[23:55:33] <zeeshan> i wish i bought a stainless steel coupler
[23:55:37] <zeeshan> instead of the aluminum pos i bought
[23:55:55] <zeeshan> it's supposed to be flexible... but its a little TOO flexible
[23:56:07] <zeeshan> to the point i don't think its going to survive 1200oz of torque
[23:56:12] <zeeshan> if it ever sees it
[23:56:20] <zeeshan> i guess it can act like a fuse :P
[23:56:27] <XXCoder1> well
[23:56:35] <XXCoder1> if its cheap just run till break
[23:56:39] <zeeshan> yea
[23:56:45] <zeeshan> i like that idea :P
