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[02:03:36] <Deejay> moin
[02:34:59] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:22:47] <jdh> what does that even mean.
[05:26:21] <Incognito675> slightly off topic. any kiwi's in here? Im looking for local cnc supplies, tools and materials
[05:49:50] <jthornton> you might find some on the forum
[06:56:31] <JesusAlos> hi
[10:29:20] <Gigs-> archivist was it you that was telling me the south bend we have probably does have a back gear?
[10:29:27] <Gigs-> you wanted me to send pics?
[10:29:43] <archivist> yup
[10:30:05] <Gigs-> anyway long story short, it turns out it does. We just thought it was a lock for the chuck. I found the spindle lock pin
[10:30:20] <Gigs-> it's the kind where you have to engage the back gear and then split the other gear by pulling out the pin
[10:30:56] <Gigs-> we have another bigger Enco that we normally do slow turning on
[10:31:47] <archivist> dont think I ever saw one without backgear
[10:32:10] <Gigs-> it would be hard to change the chuck without it
[10:32:44] <archivist> it gets abused for that purpose too
[10:32:59] <Gigs-> I wouldn't call that abuse, I believe it's intended
[10:33:25] <Gigs-> it would be hard to damage the drivetrain pulling on the chuck with the gears locked with the backgear
[10:34:13] <archivist> you may notice when doing that the gear drops out
[10:34:37] <Gigs-> what do you mean?
[10:35:14] <Gigs-> ours stays locked and nothing can move
[10:35:38] <Gigs-> all the stress is on that rather large lock pin
[10:35:50] <archivist> the back gear is in/on a rotator so rotating the chuck with back gear in works the rotator in one direction (oil viscosity)
[10:36:15] <Gigs-> hmm I think you misunderstand
[10:36:28] <Gigs-> if you don't pull out the pin that splits the right side spindle, nothing can move
[10:37:04] <Gigs-> I don't think they were all designed this way
[10:38:53] <archivist> to the left behind of the spindle see handle
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_15_Adcock_Shipley/IMG_1251.JPG
[10:39:29] <archivist> when rear back gear is disengaged
[10:40:14] <archivist> undoing the chuck also has the effect of tuning that handle to rear
[10:40:21] <archivist> turning
[10:40:30] <Gigs-> so you are saying the spur can cam the backgear out of engagement?
[10:40:38] <archivist> yes
[10:40:45] <Gigs-> that's never happened to us but yeah i could see how that would be bad
[10:41:03] <archivist> you have to hold it sometimes
[10:41:19] <Gigs-> I guess our backgear has so little use on it it's still tight
[10:43:25] <Gigs-> there's an issue though, both our lathes are technically owned by a guy that was just using the shop, and we are getting him to pull his stuff out
[10:43:46] <Gigs-> I want to let him take the enco and buy the south bend from him, but my dad wants to just let him take it all and buy a new lathe
[10:43:55] <archivist> offer some cash ?
[10:44:23] <Gigs-> are new manual lathes as good as the old south bend?
[10:44:39] <Gigs-> or put another way, what sort of price is one that's comparable
[10:44:47] <archivist> where can you get a solid lump like the southbend new for a sensible price
[10:44:57] <Gigs-> my dad is looking at a new enco
[10:45:29] <Gigs-> I think he's ready to spend at least $3000-$5000
[10:48:29] <archivist> I just googled a bit to see where enco is made
[10:48:35] <Gigs-> yeah it's all china
[11:10:29] <RogueWolf33> Hi there, I am having a specific issue with my parallel port not fluctuating Voltage but holding a steady 5 V charge. I feel like this is a step Config issue and I wonder if someone might be able to assist me in configuration of my parallel port to get it functioning correctly.
[11:13:58] <RogueWolf33> Hi there, I am having a specific issue with my parallel port not fluctuating Voltage but holding a steady 5 V charge. I feel like this is a step Config issue and I wonder if someone might be able to assist me in configuration of my parallel port to get it functioning correctly.
[11:20:28] <Gigs-> are you sure you are looking at the right pin
[11:20:42] <Gigs-> in theory a parallel port should never put out 5v anyway
[11:20:59] <Gigs-> oh wait, parallel, sorry yes
[11:21:08] <Gigs-> for some reason my mind went to rs-232
[11:23:12] <archivist> some pins are open collector, you need to add pull ups to 5v
[11:29:45] <RogueWolf33> Yes I am pretty certain that I am in the correct pin I have configured my stepping on pin 2 and X direction on Pin 3. If I understand correctly. I should see a fluxuation in voltage while moving the axis in question. Is this correct?
[11:30:43] <archivist> if you have pull ups if needed
[11:30:47] <pcw_home> you should see the direction pin change if you move the axis if different directions
[11:31:14] <pcw_home> you may not notice the step pin change if the step length is short
[11:32:04] <RogueWolf33> Archivist, I am not sure what you mean by pull ups
[11:32:58] <pcw_home> pins 2 and 3 are "data" pins so dont need pullups
[11:33:27] <archivist> there is no internal source of voltage on an open collector pin the user provides the voltage via a resistor from an external 5v source
[11:33:52] <Gigs-> another way to explain it is that an open collector pin is either connected to ground, or open
[11:34:25] <Gigs-> but none of the normal data pins are that way
[11:35:08] <Gigs-> rogue why don' you go low level and write a single byte to the parallel port and check the data pins
[11:35:16] <Gigs-> take all the cnc stuff out of the equation for now
[11:35:36] <Gigs-> if you are in linux I think you can just echo something to the device probably
[11:35:43] <archivist> cnc is the easy way to test the pins :)
[11:35:57] <pcw_home> Yeah first step is toggle a pin by hand
[11:36:18] <RogueWolf33> pcw_home, I am currently testing the direction pin and seeing no change as I try to move my X axis. Although, I am able to get a correct response when I choose the Reverse check box, all Voltage is reduced to 0. I believe this is correct. is it not?
[11:37:00] <pcw_home> OK so that means you have the port address right anyway
[11:37:33] <RogueWolf33> PCW please forgive me, I am more of a windows guy (Dont judge) I am not certain how to test toggleing a pin in linux
[11:38:12] <pcw_home> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
[11:39:36] <RogueWolf33> so you would like me to click the button and check for a voltage change?
[11:40:04] <pcw_home> yes but... stepconf should get you close enough
[11:40:54] <pcw_home> sure ist not just a pinout issue? (DB 25 pinouts are funny)
[11:41:11] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: funny? how?
[11:41:23] <Loetmichel> its just 1 time around
[11:41:47] <archivist> I fell foul of the assumption of pins driving I changed a motherboard and had to add a pull up to get a previous set up working
[11:43:14] <RogueWolf33> okay so my last move had been to reverse the pins. This put me at a 0 voltage. when I run the port test and click pin 3, no change
[11:45:09] <RogueWolf33> I find it odd that only after running CNC Do I see any change at all.
[11:45:25] <RogueWolf33> only by switching from reversed to regular pinout
[11:46:14] <IchGuckLive> hi al
[11:46:16] <IchGuckLive> B)
[11:46:42] <archivist> RogueWolf33, the levels are static while stationary
[11:47:23] <RogueWolf33> hello Ich
[11:47:43] <RogueWolf33> archivist. I see. but the port tester should fruit some kind of result correct?
[11:48:22] <archivist> what port tester? a scope a multimeter ? or what
[11:50:21] <RogueWolf33> PCW has suggested:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
[11:51:36] <IchGuckLive> the new 2.5.4 got a little triggy i think on the halmeter sometimes it fails to get the signal clear on the parport in
[11:52:06] <IchGuckLive> if i check homestate it works if i check the pinstate of parport i got fails
[11:54:26] <archivist> RogueWolf33, I use a real meter/scope to test pins
[11:55:11] <RogueWolf33> I am using an ohm meter to test the physical port, but what would you use to test the toggle feature to ensure it is working?
[11:55:22] <RogueWolf33> I believe that is the issue I am having.
[11:55:58] <archivist> I usually use stepconf step and direction, and scope the pins
[11:56:05] <IchGuckLive> RogueWolf33: did you test it on halmeter
[11:56:42] <RogueWolf33> Ich, please forgive me, I am a Linux virgin. I know not of this halmeter you speak of.
[11:56:54] <IchGuckLive> RogueWolf33: did you downgrade the speed in stepconf so you got good signaö
[11:57:31] <RogueWolf33> well some of the articles I read had me crank up the step signal to like 20,000 I think.
[11:57:37] <IchGuckLive> RogueWolf33: start your mashine and in masgine dropdown there is the halmeter
[11:58:05] <IchGuckLive> RogueWolf33: where are you in our world
[11:58:12] <IchGuckLive> USA Europ asia
[11:58:21] <zeeshan> RogueWolf33: is this a pci parallel port card?
[11:58:23] <RogueWolf33> USA
[11:58:33] <RogueWolf33> indeed it is a PCI parallel port card.
[11:58:36] <zeeshan> okay
[11:58:40] <zeeshan> cause mine was doing weird shit like that too
[11:58:50] <RogueWolf33> were you able to resolve it?
[11:58:52] <zeeshan> yea
[11:58:58] <zeeshan> i found out the drivers werent installed right
[11:59:08] <zeeshan> mine is a dual port pci card
[11:59:12] <IchGuckLive> its the config as it is regonised the card it shoudt work on realtime
[11:59:15] <zeeshan> w/ a header that lets you hook up a second port
[11:59:26] <RogueWolf33> like the serial port header?
[11:59:29] <zeeshan> no
[11:59:31] <zeeshan> dual parallel ports
[11:59:41] <RogueWolf33> ahh I have a similar config but with serial
[11:59:48] <zeeshan> bytecc card?
[11:59:52] <zeeshan> p2p
[12:00:07] <RogueWolf33> negative, startech
[12:00:16] <IchGuckLive> RogueWolf33: can you give us the Reult of a terminal command "dmesh grep | par
[12:00:17] <zeeshan> haha
[12:00:21] <zeeshan> i have the same card
[12:00:31] <RogueWolf33> using oxford semiconductor ltd thing
[12:00:36] <zeeshan> oh
[12:00:38] <RogueWolf33> ich one moment please
[12:00:48] <zeeshan> RogueWolf33: tell me something
[12:00:52] <IchGuckLive> dmesg !!
[12:00:56] <zeeshan> your inputs/outputs are always HIGH?
[12:01:01] <zeeshan> ie 5V?
[12:01:12] <zeeshan> no matter what you do to the output in linuxcnc?
[12:01:12] <RogueWolf33> zeeshen yes... exactly
[12:01:15] <zeeshan> yea
[12:01:25] <zeeshan> for me that was a driver issue
[12:01:32] <zeeshan> i chased it for 1 whole day
[12:01:39] <zeeshan> do lspci -vv
[12:01:47] <zeeshan> and check what module is loaded for your parallel port
[12:02:35] <Gigs-> /dev/lp0 is a regular file I'm sure :P
[12:02:37] <RogueWolf33> Ich: this is the output for your command
[12:02:40] <RogueWolf33> [ 0.898445] ahci 0000:00:1f.2: flags: 64bit ncq pm led clo pio slum part ems apst [ 10.993401] parport_pc 0000:04:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 19 (level, low) -> IRQ 19 [ 10.993405] PCI parallel port detected: 1415:c000, I/O at 0xe020(0xe010), IRQ 19 [ 10.993548] parport0: PC-style at 0xe020 (0xe010), irq 19, using FIFO [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,EPP,ECP] [ 11.058552] ppdev: user-space parallel port driver [ 11.088722] lp0:
[12:03:55] <IchGuckLive> zeeshan: there is only one loaded
[12:04:03] <zeeshan> thats okay
[12:04:08] <zeeshan> but if the driver isn't the right one
[12:04:12] <zeeshan> it won't work right
[12:04:18] <zeeshan> for me i could see it in dmesg, and that it was detected
[12:04:27] <zeeshan> by when you did lspci -vv, it was pointing to the wrong module in the kernel
[12:04:36] <zeeshan> i had to build and install the linux driver for my parallel port card
[12:04:50] <zeeshan> and when it pointed to the right module when i did lspci -vv it magically started working =/
[12:05:43] <IchGuckLive> zeeshan: right this to the wiki page please or mark the parport card as triggy
[12:06:16] <zeeshan> but its fun to let others struggle first
[12:06:16] <zeeshan> !
[12:06:43] <IchGuckLive> not a good joke ;-)
[12:07:03] <RogueWolf33> made me smile but then I called him a name :)
[12:07:12] <zeeshan> haha
[12:07:17] <RogueWolf33> Zeeshan here is the output to your command :
[12:07:19] <RogueWolf33> 04:00.0 Parallel controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device c100 (prog-if 02) Subsystem: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device c100 Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B- DisINTx- Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx- Latency: 0, Cache Line Size: 64 bytes Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 19 Region 0: I/O ports at
[12:08:01] <zeeshan> your paste cropped
[12:08:07] <zeeshan> there should be more to it towards the end
[12:08:11] <zeeshan> http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38324-1/bridgeport_headless_carcass_truck.jpg <-- poor bridgeport
[12:08:41] <RogueWolf33> 04:00.0 Parallel controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device c100 (prog-if 02) Subsystem: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device c100 Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B- DisINTx- Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx- Latency: 0, Cache Line Size: 64 bytes Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 19 Region 0: I/O ports at
[12:08:55] <RogueWolf33> hmmm
[12:09:39] <RogueWolf33> Region 1: I/O ports at e010 [size=4] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=55mA PME(D0-,D1+,D2+,D3hot+,D3cold+) Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/0 Enable- Address: 0000000000000000 Data: 0000 Capabilities: [70] Express (v1) Legacy Endpoint, MSI 00 DevCap: MaxPayload 128 bytes, PhantFunc 0,
[12:10:27] <RogueWolf33> <2us ExtTag- AttnBtn- AttnInd- PwrInd- RBE+ FLReset- DevCtl: Report errors: Correctable- Non-Fatal- Fatal- Unsupported- RlxdOrd- ExtTag- PhantFunc- AuxPwr- NoSnoop- MaxPayload 128 bytes, MaxReadReq 512 bytes DevSta: CorrErr- UncorrErr- FatalErr- UnsuppReq- AuxPwr+ TransPend- LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 2.5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Latency L0 unlimited, L1 unlimited ClockPM+ Suprise- LLActRep- BwNot- LnkCtl: AS
[12:10:44] <zeeshan> just need to see what it says somethingsomething.o
[12:10:45] <zeeshan> module
[12:11:13] <IchGuckLive> RogueWolf33: "sudo cat /proc/ioports | grep parport
[12:11:21] <IchGuckLive> sudo modprobe -r lp
[12:11:30] <IchGuckLive> sudo modprobe -r parport_pc
[12:11:53] <RogueWolf33> e010-e012 : parport0 e020-e022 : parport0 e023-e027 : parport0
[12:12:41] <IchGuckLive> sudo lspci -v grep | Parallel
[12:13:39] <RogueWolf33> it doesnt like the "Parallel" command
[12:13:55] <IchGuckLive> sudo lspci -v
[12:13:58] <RogueWolf33> sudo modprobes will not work either
[12:14:51] <IchGuckLive> sudo modprobe parport_pc io=0xe020
[12:15:07] <RogueWolf33> 04:00.0 Parallel controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device c100 (prog-if 02) Subsystem: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device c100 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 19 I/O ports at e020 [size=8] I/O ports at e010 [size=4] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit+ Queue=0/0 Enable- Capabilities: [70] Express Legacy Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [
[12:15:44] <RogueWolf33> WARNING: All config files need .conf: /etc/modprobe.d/emc2, it will be ignored in a future release.
[12:16:03] <zeeshan> RogueWolf33:
[12:16:11] <RogueWolf33> yes sir?
[12:16:13] <zeeshan> is this the card:
[12:16:17] <zeeshan> http://ca.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Parallel/1-Port-EPP-ECP-PCI-Express-Parallel-Card-~PEX1P
[12:16:22] <zeeshan> PEX1P
[12:16:32] <RogueWolf33> http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/1S1P-Native-PCI-Express-Parallel-Serial-Combo-Card-with-16950-UART~PEX1S1P952
[12:16:45] <RogueWolf33> That one
[12:16:54] <zeeshan> you gotta install those drivers
[12:16:56] <zeeshan> im telling you!
[12:17:21] <RogueWolf33> I did not see a driver. I saw an upgrade for it
[12:17:32] <zeeshan> click the drivers&downloads
[12:17:36] <zeeshan> its the first zip file
[12:17:42] <zeeshan> http://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/media/sets/PLX_Oxford-PCIe_Drivers/PLX_PCIe.zip
[12:17:48] <RogueWolf33> yes I realize that
[12:18:05] <RogueWolf33> but if you look in there, its just a single update file or something
[12:18:23] <RogueWolf33> and a buch of stuff on how to recompile linux
[12:18:50] <RogueWolf33> I think it is not for ubuntu its other versions of linux
[12:19:07] <zeeshan> ??
[12:19:15] <zeeshan> i see a driver patch
[12:19:19] <zeeshan> kernel 2.6
[12:19:22] <RogueWolf33> yes.
[12:19:45] <RogueWolf33> Brace yourself gentlemen, stupid question incoming
[12:19:51] <RogueWolf33> how do I apply it?
[12:19:59] <zeeshan> you should follow those instructions step by step
[12:20:00] <zeeshan> to install it
[12:20:04] <zeeshan> its in the README.txt
[12:20:26] <zeeshan> i'm almost 99% positive that your parallel port pins for some pins are always '5v'
[12:20:42] <zeeshan> cause they're just floating <- i don't know the fancy electronics term
[12:20:55] <zeeshan> i just remember having to install a driver
[12:20:58] <zeeshan> to make them do something useful
[12:21:01] <RogueWolf33> so after the update, you believe the issue will be resolved? okay let me give it another shot. I never applied the patch, I only tried to recompile linux.
[12:21:18] <zeeshan> yea, if you install it w/ those instructions, it will work
[12:21:24] <zeeshan> when you do lspci -v
[12:21:33] <zeeshan> you'll see that your parallel port will be using a driver called
[12:21:48] <zeeshan> 'OXPCIe952.o'
[12:21:50] <zeeshan> or something like that
[12:21:53] <zeeshan> OXPCI something
[12:22:00] <zeeshan> i dont remember the exact numbers
[12:22:05] <RogueWolf33> okay let me try again. Thanks for the help
[12:22:09] <zeeshan> np
[12:22:11] <RogueWolf33> and thank you too Ich!
[12:22:17] <RogueWolf33> I will let you guys know how it goes!
[12:22:22] <IchGuckLive> NP
[12:22:57] <IchGuckLive> roh: dont forget to restart your pc bevor editing the driver
[12:23:04] <IchGuckLive> rog
[12:36:49] <IchGuckLive> oh today is the day where the first ever computer(elek brain) has started up 73 years ago
[12:37:54] <IchGuckLive> and now every playtoy got more power then the hole moonrocket programm computer
[12:40:51] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: Which are you counting as the first? Zuse Z3?
[12:41:37] <IchGuckLive> its the first worldwide running programmable mashine so yes
[12:42:51] <andypugh> I am not disagreeing with you, just checking :-)
[12:43:25] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: you can cont on many as they are in ther way
[12:43:34] <IchGuckLive> keyboard code
[12:43:41] <IchGuckLive> punchcard system
[12:43:45] <Loetmichel> hmm, wasnt ada lovelance the first?
[12:43:59] <Loetmichel> even before von neumann?
[12:44:10] <andypugh> Arguably the first programmer, worked out algorithms for the Analytical Engine
[12:44:23] <IchGuckLive> von neuman is theory of interconstructiv mashines
[12:45:36] <IchGuckLive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_%28computer%29
[12:45:47] <IchGuckLive> It was the world's first working programmable, fully automatic digital computer
[12:46:09] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry, who was that with the adding machines?
[12:46:18] <Loetmichel> wasnt that von neumann?
[12:46:34] <Loetmichel> there was a machine that could be preprogrammed iirc
[12:46:44] <IchGuckLive> archimedes got a working ball count mashine
[12:47:01] <Gigs-> Jacquard loom
[12:47:10] <IchGuckLive> the romes got a length meeter out of it
[12:47:26] <IchGuckLive> but there has been way bevor mashines in the orient like that
[12:48:12] <Gigs-> most definitions of computer include a stored program that can be changed
[12:48:18] <IchGuckLive> jacqard has been mechanical programms like musik mashines and textil mashines
[12:48:19] <Gigs-> otherwise it's just a fancy machine
[12:49:16] <IchGuckLive> Gigs-: as i said in its own way there are many
[13:05:05] <IchGuckLive> zeeshan: how long did your driver convert take as rog is off for a quite time
[13:05:59] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: your flashlight guess is realy amazing poewerfull
[13:21:11] <archivist> big iron pron for the noobs in the chan
https://web.archive.org/web/20130323144637/http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/William_Doxford_and_Sons
[13:23:34] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: do you got two working batteries?
[13:23:51] <IchGuckLive> yes
[13:26:26] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: did ypou charege one at the time not both in this crap charger
[13:26:42] <malcom2073> Only thing better than big iron, is big old iron
[13:26:48] <Loetmichel> i didnt used that charger at al
[13:26:57] <Loetmichel> i have a computer charger
[13:27:28] <Loetmichel> tha can do any rechargeable battery chemistry there is
[13:27:30] <IchGuckLive> as you always got specel equipments ;-)
[13:27:40] <Loetmichel> <- model pilot
[13:27:58] <IchGuckLive> i got the 3rd biggest aircraft carrier in germany
[13:27:59] <Loetmichel> comes with the model tech ;)
[13:28:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14751 <- charger plus one dismantled battery
[13:28:45] <Loetmichel> i got two lamps
[13:28:53] <Loetmichel> so four batteries
[13:29:12] <Loetmichel> 2: DOA, one 400mAh capacity, one 600mah capacity.
[13:29:29] <Loetmichel> so much for Quality check for chinese products ;-)
[13:29:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14733&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:29:51] <IchGuckLive> i dont care on that its working
[13:30:07] <IchGuckLive> after 28days delivvery
[13:30:27] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: i didnt need to rebuild my kernel
[13:30:32] <zeeshan> i just had to install the drivers
[13:30:33] <zeeshan> took 15 min
[13:30:34] <Loetmichel> hrhr, what did you expect, them coming by aur mail for €12?
[13:31:00] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: hmm?
[13:31:13] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: zeehan is on me
[13:31:14] <Loetmichel> when did i suggest to rebuild anything?
[13:31:17] <Loetmichel> ah
[13:31:25] <zeeshan> whoops
[13:31:25] <zeeshan> sorry
[13:31:28] <zeeshan> haha
[13:31:51] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: the ebay said UK but i came by HK standard
[13:32:16] <Loetmichel> thats a reason to kick the seller into the balls
[13:32:21] <Loetmichel> they do that a lot
[13:32:32] <IchGuckLive> ok im off BYE for today
[13:47:17] <Einar1> I just bought Ebay item 180962604760. It will be interesting to test it. The touch panel is already lifting at the corners before they sell it! :-)
[13:49:10] <Einar1> But I plan on using the VFD for my 2column car lift and use the Omron VFD I have there now for the spindle. The lift have only a couple of hours per month running. And I will be there when using it, so if it blow up I can extinguish the bonfire quickly.
[13:50:40] <Gigs-> I don't think it's lifting
[13:50:55] <Gigs-> it's just not flush in the mount
[13:50:55] <Einar1> And I took the last 2 of these: Ebay 281134787215. I already bought one and found it is not a ball screw but a roller screw. :-) Much better!
[13:51:11] <zeeshan> einar
[13:51:14] <zeeshan> youre making your own car lift
[13:51:15] <zeeshan> ?
[13:51:44] <Gigs-> no he said he will trade VFDs
[13:51:55] <zeeshan> oh
[13:52:05] <Einar1> No. It's made in Italy. But I threw out the control and put in a VFD. Sooo nice when I want to lower it carefully to lift out an engine.
[13:52:11] <andypugh> It looks like a protective film on the touchpad to me
[13:52:57] <Einar1> We'll see. There will be a teardown when I get it. I'm really curious to check the ESR of the big caps!
[13:53:46] <andypugh> do I try to rewind my magneto, or pay a pro?
[13:53:52] <Einar1> The warranty is nothing worth due to the expensive freight, so I'll have a peek inside ASAP. ;-)
[13:53:57] <cradek> andypugh: why not both
[13:54:14] <andypugh> More likely to be the first then the second :-)
[13:54:17] <Einar1> 'Magneto?
[13:55:26] <andypugh> Einar1:
http://www.geutskens.eu/neracar/images/PPL/9-Igniter/Igniter/14-Schematic-gec.jpg
[13:55:58] <Loetmichel> uh
[13:56:17] <Loetmichel> that magneto is _fairly_ old ;-)
[13:56:46] <cradek> looks like there's very good access to the coils
[13:56:53] <andypugh> That isn’t mine. That one looks to have been rewound. Mine is even older.
[13:57:02] <cradek> an old motorcycle?
[13:57:27] <andypugh> Indeed
[13:57:32] <Einar1> Ahh. Rewind it yourself. Check the # of the wire and wind like you would a winch drum except cross over for every layer. Point is that distance between wires that have high potential should be as much as possible.
[13:57:34] <andypugh> 1921
[13:58:16] <Tom_itx> another part of your restoration?
[13:58:39] <andypugh> One think I hadn’t realised until reading a web-page was that as you get further out you need to stop short of the pole pieces, or you just spark-out to them.
[13:59:52] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes. I was resigned to rewinding it, then I managed to coax a spark out of it, then it stopped sparking again.
[14:00:16] <zeeshan> 1921 what
[14:00:33] <andypugh> as it says in the URL, a ner-a-car
[14:00:34] <zeeshan> that looks like a harley or indian magneto
[14:01:54] <zeeshan> damn, the ner-a-car looks sexy
[14:01:56] <zeeshan> never seen one before.
[14:02:00] <andypugh> Also incorporating a 4V lighting coil. No idea where to get 4V bubs from…
[14:02:03] <Einar1> Make an insulator to keep distance to the pole pieces. Pieces of pertinax print with copper etced off is a good source.
[14:02:22] <zeeshan> use LEDS :D
[14:02:31] <zeeshan> or are you doing an original restoration
[14:02:42] <andypugh> I kind of want to rewind it as-original, with shellac and sheets of Mica :-)
[14:02:45] <archivist> andypugh, never allow them to spark across a large gap else they fire internally
[14:02:56] <zeeshan> http://www.motorcycles20thcentury.com/motors/normal/NER-A-CAR-350-ModelC-1925.jpg
[14:02:58] <zeeshan> so sexy!
[14:03:48] <andypugh> In a bizarre coincidence, Zultron also has one.
[14:04:24] <archivist> I fancied having one
[14:04:45] <zeeshan> http://www.bulbtown.com/4_Volt_s/573.htm
[14:04:46] <Einar1> archivist: Many coils have ben destroyed by being fired with no load on secondary. Then the insulation breaks down. Most people don't know and "test" the coil by springing too much of a gap.
[14:05:19] <zeeshan> 50 hour life on some of those bulbs
[14:05:20] <zeeshan> haha
[14:05:26] <archivist> I have many magneto manuals :)
[14:05:37] <Tom_itx> as well as many others
[14:05:46] <Gigs-> a coil should be able to handle an open secondary
[14:06:02] <Gigs-> it happens too often in reality to design a coil that can't do it
[14:06:25] <andypugh> The separate (rotating coil) style magnetos typically have a “safety gap” to prevent internal breakdown.
[14:07:20] <archivist> I missed out on some magneto rewinding data...sniff
[14:24:06] <zeeshan> would you guys ever do a 125 thou depth of cut in 1018 mild steel with a 2" 4 insert face mill?
[14:24:09] <zeeshan> =]
[14:24:15] <zeeshan> on a r8 bridgeport
[14:24:24] <zeeshan> ive been doing 70 thou cuts and it seems fine
[14:24:31] <zeeshan> curious to find out what the limit is :p
[14:25:25] <archivist> your ears will tell you, or the machine spits it out one side
[14:25:32] <andypugh> Depending on the feed rate 2” depth of cut might be OK :-)
[14:25:46] <zeeshan> what do you guys typically do?
[14:25:54] <zeeshan> <- trying to get an idea of whats 'abuse'
[14:25:55] <archivist> depends!
[14:25:56] <zeeshan> and whats normal
[14:25:59] <_methods> whatever you can get away with
[14:26:19] <_methods> drive it like you stole it
[14:26:26] <andypugh> I can’t really say, I am actually pretty new to milling, I don’t have the same “feel” as I do for lathe work
[14:26:27] <archivist> how strong is the clamping/machine/part/tooling
[14:26:47] <_methods> do you have insurance?
[14:26:50] <andypugh> How big is the key in the R8 spindle :-)
[14:26:51] <zeeshan> andypugh: im on the same boat
[14:26:57] <zeeshan> there is no key on the r8
[14:26:58] <zeeshan> :P
[14:27:04] <zeeshan> oh
[14:27:09] <zeeshan> i dunno.
[14:27:26] <zeeshan> i found a ISO30 spindle for the machine for 400
[14:27:32] <andypugh> R8 should have a key, I think. Nothing like the big dogs on a BT or CAT.
[14:27:41] <zeeshan> andypugh: most people remove em
[14:27:49] <zeeshan> cause when it shears its game over
[14:27:49] <zeeshan> :P
[14:28:01] <andypugh> So that the drawbar can over-tighten itself?
[14:28:39] <andypugh> I prefer the 30 taper, you can get the tool out with a lot less headroom.
[14:29:13] <zeeshan> yea and its got drive dogs
[14:29:16] <zeeshan> which makes is far superior
[14:29:20] <zeeshan> *it
[14:29:33] <andypugh> And you can make a proper pneumatic pull-stud
[14:29:53] <zeeshan> right now i'm just trying to figur eout if its even worth investing into a iso30 spindle
[14:29:58] <zeeshan> cause if the machine isnt rigid enough
[14:30:03] <zeeshan> then there really is no point
[14:30:03] <andypugh> (My pneumatic drawbar is one of the most satisfactory projects I have done0
[14:30:04] * SpeedEvil imagines UV setting and unsetting loctite
[14:30:17] <zeeshan> andypugh: what mill do you have
[14:30:27] <andypugh> A little baby Harrison
[14:31:19] <andypugh> (More pictures than anyone would ever want of the Harrison)
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill
[14:32:09] <jdh> http://raleigh.craigslist.org/tls/4463330703.html
[14:32:12] <andypugh> I have a knee-tremble that I need to isolate. Something isn’t as tight as it could be.
[14:32:13] <jdh> is that useful for anything?
[14:32:18] <zeeshan> andypugh:
[14:32:21] <zeeshan> im kealous of this:
[14:32:24] <zeeshan> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1oqN17ta-qo/Uee9DhZF34I/AAAAAAAACMk/JCVAkbFUVXY/w1345-h1009-no/IMG_0312.jpg
[14:32:25] <zeeshan> !
[14:32:46] <andypugh> I paid £80 for the job lot ;-)
[14:32:54] <zeeshan> !
[14:33:09] <zeeshan> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A7GSHIvqaOc/Uee9DkkirkI/AAAAAAAACRc/SmbpgVJ7lgE/w757-h1009-no/IMG_0578.jpg
[14:33:12] <zeeshan> i like it
[14:33:18] <zeeshan> how much does it weigh?
[14:33:24] <skunkworks> andypugh, again - you did a really nice job integrating the servos/ball screws into that
[14:33:25] <andypugh> About 500kg
[14:34:35] <_methods> hehe love the tool height presetter
[14:35:46] <zeeshan> woohooo
[14:35:52] <zeeshan> my access card is ready
[14:36:01] * zeeshan will be playing with metal forming equipment
[14:37:09] <andypugh> jdh: Here is a page about the Mini-kop
http://www.lathes.co.uk/myfordminikop/ I think that the price is very low for a Myford, and that a Min-kop might be an easier CNC conversion than a conventional Myford. You could even convert to Moog valves and have it fully servo-hydraulic :-)
[14:37:50] <zeeshan> andypugh & archivist
[14:37:54] <zeeshan> i know you guys make gears
[14:38:06] <archivist> mebe
[14:38:18] <andypugh> Only when I have an excuse
[14:38:19] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/M2EnctN.jpg
[14:38:24] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/0Dqvva3.jpg
[14:38:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/oViQ390.jpg
[14:38:37] <andypugh> My dad has one of them
[14:39:07] <archivist> I dont have one
[14:39:14] <andypugh> That one has evil verniers
[14:39:22] <andypugh> Ever tried to use a 1/50th vernier?
[14:39:24] <zeeshan> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/Precision-Measuring-Tools/Precision-Hand-Tools/Slide-Calipers/Vernier-and-Pocket-Calipers/456MAZ
[14:39:26] <zeeshan> its this model
[14:39:29] <zeeshan> TRADE ME!!!
[14:39:32] <zeeshan> its useless to me
[14:39:50] <zeeshan> andypugh: im 29
[14:39:56] <zeeshan> i can read 1/50 vernier like no tommo!
[14:40:05] <zeeshan> =D
[14:40:29] <andypugh> And remember to double the number before writing it down _every_ time?
[14:41:00] <archivist> but I use the travelling microscope because those things are too big for me
[14:41:35] <zeeshan> i have this thing on ebay
[14:41:45] <zeeshan> hopefully i can get a mitutoyo 12/24" height gauge out of it
[14:41:51] <zeeshan> <- needs one bad
[14:42:40] <archivist> I only use the height gauge once every two years ish
[14:42:41] <andypugh> My height gauge has an interesting quirk. It has a 24” scale, but goes back to zero at 18” (number guessed for illustration)
[14:42:57] <andypugh> I ought to have sent it back, but it doesn’t really matter.
[14:55:50] <Einar1> I use my height gauges often. More often for marking out than for measuring. And for when I'm one hand short to use calipers. The digital one does not like to be traversed fast.
[14:58:40] <Einar1> Andypugh: I had a horizontal + vertical mill. It had the shakes when horizontal milling but was fine in vertical. Horizontal milling puts a lot of vibrations into table and knee.
[14:59:15] <archivist> better horizontals had straps at the font
[15:00:03] <Einar1> Yes, mine had straps, but was cumbersome to use. Also a lot of the shakes was give in the leadscrew and associated parts.
[15:00:59] <archivist> but they sure move metal
[15:02:12] <Einar1> Yes!! Now I have some huge paperweights, also known as slab mills. :-)
[15:02:56] <Einar1> I thought of cutting them in slices, reshape/grind and use as face mills.
[15:03:54] <Einar1> The biggest could almost do a head (car) in one go.
[15:07:07] <SpeedEvil> Paperweights - I suggest you not do paperwork in an actual class 5 hurricane outdoors.
[15:08:15] <Einar1> Maybe. I'm sure the papers would be shaped like the end of a slab mill though!
[16:07:51] <Deejay> gn8
[16:09:42] <Loetmichel> *gnah*, how idiotic can ome man be? i just tried to hammer an ice cube/bar into the soda bottle with my hand. a flat pieve of the bar broke off: i cut my palm... *puts bandaid on the palm*
[16:10:53] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Dude, Remember the titanic??? DUH!!!!
[16:11:53] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: an ice cube sunk that bitch, m'kay? =)
[16:12:35] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: SLIGHTLY bigger icecube
[16:12:58] <Jymmm> Nah, just like ants in quantity is all =)
[16:13:14] <Jymmm> Fuck me, I didn't know they were going this cheap...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-Nano-V3-0-with-ATMEGA328P-Module/281145520990?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3D6855359031229718789%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D20131231084308%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D360890792167
[16:13:50] <zeeshan> Jymmm: will DO
[16:14:59] <xxoxx> hi
[16:17:56] <micges1> hi
[16:50:05] <zeeshan> wohooo
[16:50:08] <zeeshan> BALL SCREW arrived
[16:50:43] * SpeedEvil puts on the sexy-time music.
[16:50:58] <kfoltman> zeeshan: which one?
[16:51:09] <zeeshan> i needed a longer ball screw
[16:51:12] <zeeshan> linearmotionbearings
[17:25:23] <andypugh> Jymmm: Yeah, it’s almost never worth building any sort of discrete circuit any more, just use an Arduino instead. It’s hardly more expensive than a 555, and needs no external components.
[17:26:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: Even cheaper $2.50 no usb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-53V-16M-For-Arduino-Compatible-With-Nano-/181341402604?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a38ca35ec
[17:51:56] <MrSunshine> is it possible somehow to catch errors in classicladder ? =)
[17:52:16] <MrSunshine> like when doing a Z probe, if the probe move is to long and will go beyond the limits of the axis
[17:52:42] <MrSunshine> axis gui gives an error and cancels my ladder program in the middle of it, leaving memories set etc :/
[18:37:12] <andypugh> MrSunshine: I guess you could prevent that particular error by only probing as far as the axis limit.
[18:37:30] <andypugh> But it sounds like you are looking for a general solution?
[20:25:50] <XXCoder> woot
[20:25:54] <XXCoder> got giant order
[20:26:05] <XXCoder> I will be able to afford some nicer cnc parts
[20:28:53] <jdh> whatcha making?
[20:50:33] <XXCoder> not making, its non cnc related order.
[20:50:54] <XXCoder> I was hoping it'd sell soonish so I could order ballscrews
[20:59:33] <XXCoder> got a question though
[20:59:41] <XXCoder> if say my rail system is 2 feet long
[20:59:45] <XXCoder> how long should screw be?
[21:04:53] <XXCoder> hey
[21:06:23] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: how much travel is there?
[21:06:41] <XXCoder> a sec
[21:06:56] <XXCoder> 600 mm
[21:06:59] <XXCoder> approx 2 ft
[21:07:21] <CaptHindsight> travel + bearing and coupling + whatever extra you want for clearance
[21:08:46] <XXCoder> http://www.oklahomaselltoday.com/Sapulpa-/GARAGE-SALES-/Cnc-router-engraver-design-package-easy-to-build-plans.do
[21:08:56] <XXCoder> seems distances is equal with rails
[21:08:59] <CaptHindsight> you'll probably at least want to make a simple back of the napkin sketch to decide how you're going to mount and capture it
[21:09:38] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
[21:10:48] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg
[21:11:24] <XXCoder> reading definition on "fixed"
[21:11:25] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg
[21:12:05] <XXCoder> interesting
[21:13:09] <CaptHindsight> then you'll have to decide how you'll mount the motor and couple it to the screw
[21:13:42] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-ballscrews-ball-screws-anti-backlash-ball-screw-RM1605-400-600-600mm-C7-CNC-/251333424264?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3a84a3b488
[21:14:11] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-antibacklash-ballscrew-1605-600mm-C7-BK-BF12-coupler-6-35mm-10mm-/251403735191?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3a88d49097 more expensive but has all stuff like supports
[21:14:19] <XXCoder> and I guess antibacklash coupler
[21:15:16] <CaptHindsight> the screw ends look machined and threaded for nuts to set preload
[21:16:26] <XXCoder> how does preload work? I guess it makes some constant load so it dont start and suddenbly gets hit with load
[21:18:23] <XXCoder> nice
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-ballscrews-RM1605-300-600-600mm-3-nuts-BK-BF12-/250451252435?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3a500ed4d3
[21:18:29] <XXCoder> matches my cnc rail sizes lol
[21:18:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nmbtc.com/bearings/engineering/preload.html
[21:19:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/ball-bearings/principles/application-of-bearings/bearing-preload/index.html
[21:19:27] <XXCoder> ahh that simple
[21:19:27] <CaptHindsight> http://img.bhs4.com/AB/8/AB886BEA235631035195B42EFB449C2E019B8450_large.jpg
[21:19:29] <XXCoder> nice
[21:20:00] <CaptHindsight> ever do wheel bearings on a car?
[21:20:05] <XXCoder> nope
[21:20:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.engineerlive.com/content/23694
[21:22:34] <XXCoder> capt got links on how to build preload in
[22:14:11] <humble_sea_bass> https://imgur.com/a/gak3W
[22:15:11] <humble_sea_bass> https://i.imgur.com/EnqlHMb.jpg
[22:15:17] <humble_sea_bass> PRELOADING 101
[22:31:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ping
[22:32:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: 3 for $5, whatcha think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-53V-16M-For-Arduino-Compatible-With-Nano-/181341402604?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a38ca35ec
[22:35:05] <XXCoder> jeez so cheap
[22:35:09] <XXCoder> whats people use it for
[22:39:11] <XXCoder> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/CNCCookbook/ACBearingBlock.jpg
[22:39:14] <XXCoder> nice picture
[22:40:28] <XXCoder> so result should be that theres enough of shift passed though that I can mount motor to it
