#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-05-01

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[00:01:41] <tjtr33> i pulled a lot of old galvanized outof the kitchen, and threw it out ( headslap) i couldahadda CNC
[00:05:26] <jp_mill> pcw: did the led setup if i wiggle the motor pulley i get alternating lights
[00:05:53] <jp_mill> i can get both of them to filicker at the same time kinda
[00:07:15] <tjtr33> eyes will fool you (latency) you're so close you really need a scope
[00:09:30] <jp_mill> FOR THE MOST PART IT IS ONE OR THE OTHER
[00:09:45] <jp_mill> oops
[00:12:32] <jp_mill> a & b channel behave the same with the leds
[00:13:33] <tjtr33> in quadrature they arent mutually exclusive, i _think_ simultaneous is ok http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quadrature_Diagram.svg
[00:13:57] <tjtr33> does the pic explain what you see?
[00:15:19] <tjtr33> if you refer to a and /a, then 'they' are exclusive
[00:15:46] <jp_mill> kinda keep in mind were talking about differential outputs and only looking at one channel at a time
[00:16:35] <tjtr33> ok ^^ should be exclusive and the led not as informative/definitive as 2 channel scope
[00:19:06] <pcw_home> you should never have a place where both LEDS are off
[00:19:16] <jp_mill> I dont
[00:19:27] <jp_mill> just possiblt both on
[00:19:31] <jp_mill> possibly
[00:20:45] <pcw_home> it might look that way if its dithering between states
[00:21:34] <jp_mill> thats what it looks like i can get a definite one or the other or just bouncing back and fourth
[00:22:06] <jp_mill> so now that that checks out where do i look next?
[00:22:19] <MrHindsight> is the only axis that creeps/drifts and if you put this encoder and motor on another set of inputs on the 7i77 the problem moves with it?
[00:22:33] <pcw_home> will it do this plugged into the 7I77 (so its terminated)?
[00:23:37] <jp_mill> do you mean not plugged in?
[00:24:15] <jp_mill> or with the leds and plugged into the 7i77
[00:24:24] <MrHindsight> did you test with the LED's while the signals were still attached to the 7i77?
[00:24:30] <jp_mill> no
[00:24:55] <MrHindsight> can you now try it with the leds and the 7i77 attached at the same time
[00:25:33] <pcw_home> I mean the LED test should be done touching the screws of the connectors on the 7I77 (all cables connected)
[00:25:46] <jp_mill> ok one min
[00:30:29] <jp_mill> ok works the same plugged in
[00:30:43] <jp_mill> on a channel at least
[00:33:53] <jp_mill> and the same on B channel
[00:34:50] <pcw_home> and the 7I77 is jumpered for differential mode?
[00:35:08] <jp_mill> no it's set for single ended right now
[00:38:04] <pcw_home> needs to be jumpered for differential mode for test
[00:38:13] <jp_mill> same response perhaps less dithering but it may just be me
[00:39:23] <pcw_home> but no encoder counts when jumpered for differential?
[00:39:43] <jp_mill> correct that has always been a constant
[00:40:16] <tjtr33> no encoder counts _and_ blinky leds?
[00:40:52] <jp_mill> and if i take one of the other drive and just plug it in it counts fine in diff mode
[00:42:34] <pcw_home> what was the differential voltage again (across A, /A)
[00:43:21] <jp_mill> 3.6V right now
[00:43:57] <pcw_home> what is in in the other state?
[00:44:13] <pcw_home> what is it
[00:44:35] <jp_mill> -3.6V
[00:45:03] <pcw_home> and on B, /B
[00:45:06] <pcw_home> ?
[00:45:11] <jp_mill> same
[00:46:33] <pcw_home> can you jog a bunch of times to make sure there are only 3.6 and -3.6 states
[00:48:23] <jp_mill> yes seems to be the same.
[00:50:12] <Einar> I have seen several cases where one driver of a differential output is dead. There are 2: one drives the + line, the other drives the - line. Typical for this fault is you get only 1/2 the voltage. It can easily be seen on a 2 channel scope where the ground clips are connected to the local ground of the drivers.
[00:52:28] <Einar> Also check that you don't have any short circuits. The wire strands of these cables are thin, so a short is not always easy to spot.
[00:52:58] <jp_mill> using solid copper cat 5
[00:53:28] <Einar> I found in the scrollback that your A had 1.9V which is about half of the others.
[00:53:48] <jp_mill> that was a different drive
[00:54:03] <jp_mill> i swapped the drives after that
[00:54:06] <pcw_home> Its pretty mysterious since it work in single ended mode using the same receiver
[00:54:07] <pcw_home> (single ended mode ties one receiver input to a 1.65V reference, differential mode connects the receiver inputs
[00:54:09] <pcw_home> to both side of a 120 Ohm termination resistor thats across A and /A etc)
[00:54:10] <pcw_home> other possibilities are bad/misplaced mode jumpers
[00:54:48] <jp_mill> well are the jumpers either left or right?
[00:54:57] <Einar> Cat5 is wrong impedance. How long is the cable?
[00:55:11] <jp_mill> 2ft if that
[00:55:36] <Einar> OK, then it won't get in trouble.
[00:56:07] <jp_mill> it is the only drive wired in cat 5 for the encoders
[00:56:37] <jp_mill> the other 2 are stranded 24 awg
[00:57:38] <Einar> For that short cable the mismatch is not great eanough to matter. Had it been long, I would swapped to 120Ohm cable.
[00:58:35] <jp_mill> im lost i do not understand why it works fine in single ended mode under jogging and program but at idle it would just drift. it's like the index is messed at low speed
[00:59:32] <Einar> If it's drifting, dont go for the index. The index is not used for positioning.
[00:59:39] <jp_mill> when i watch the encoder counts it looks like while drifitng the index is not being read correctly so it just wraps around the same count
[01:00:29] <Einar> Do you say that you can see the counter changing while it's drifting?
[01:00:48] <pcw_home> Its simply that the drives generate too much noise to transfer data reliably in single ended mode
[01:00:49] <pcw_home> (This is why pretty much all drives have differential quadrature output)
[01:00:54] <jp_mill> yes but not what i think is more than one motor rev
[01:01:41] <pcw_home> why differential mode is not working is a mystery however
[01:01:43] <jp_mill> pcw_home: i would agree with that if it could not hold position while running a program but it can
[01:02:57] <MrHindsight> is this the only drive that drifts?
[01:03:04] <jp_mill> yup
[01:03:10] <Einar> If the counter is changing (slowly) while drifting, the problem is not in the cabling, encoder or other hardware.
[01:03:12] <pcw_home> Dont know maybe just a bad drive
[01:03:31] <MrHindsight> have you tried swapping this drive to another channel on the 7i77?
[01:03:35] <jp_mill> same operation on two different drives
[01:04:22] <jp_mill> thats my next challenge
[01:05:40] <jp_mill> pcw_home: would the 7i77 need to be powerd down to change the encoder jumpers?
[01:06:18] <pcw_home> no as long as you dont short anything out
[01:06:44] <jp_mill> ok thats what i thought
[01:10:00] <pcw_home> center pin of three pin jumper is receiver input.
[01:10:02] <pcw_home> right hand pin is one side of termination resistor (across A and /A for example)
[01:10:03] <pcw_home> left hand pin is 1.65V reference
[01:12:43] <pcw_home> which is why is makes no sense at all for single ended to work but differential not work if the differential signals are right
[01:12:53] <pcw_home> bbl
[01:14:07] <Einar> Just so I can follow here: Have it been established that the counter is stable while the axis drifts?
[01:18:17] <MrHindsight> I believe it has no counts while in differential mode
[01:18:22] <jp_mill> no it is not stable when it drifts
[01:18:46] <MrHindsight> when it drifts you have counts?
[01:19:44] <Einar> Which means the counter is reflecting the drift. Then I would spend time figuring out why the servo loop allows the counter to not stay put!
[01:20:53] <jp_mill> ah but that is not true. the encoder counts just not as expected for example if it drifts 3 motor revs the counts do not increase 3 motor revs worth
[01:21:24] <jp_mill> it just seems to count within one rotation
[01:22:18] <pcw_home> that sounds like a drive problem
[01:23:11] <pcw_home> linuxcnc ignores the index except during homing if wired correctly in HAL
[01:23:20] <Einar> Sometimes the index is used to reset the counter, so that may or may not be normal.
[01:23:50] <pcw_home> only during homing though unless theres a HAL error
[01:24:06] <Einar> yes pcw_home. So get the HAL connections checked.
[01:25:04] <jp_mill> http://pastebin.com/MsVFSq8R
[01:25:08] <pcw_home> index_enable should be false during normal operation (other than spindle synchronized moves or homing)
[01:25:11] <jp_mill> ther is my hal
[01:25:55] <Einar> Anyway the servo loop should put out a quite forceful correction if the counter indicate the motor is off by nearly a whole revolution.
[01:26:28] <pcw_home> when it drifts does the DRO change?
[01:27:09] <jp_mill> yeah but if the motor is geared at 30:1 the one rev of error is not that big
[01:27:17] <jp_mill> no the dro stays constant
[01:28:08] <pcw_home> OK so thats just the expected result of using TTL encoder inputs when you have 2V of noise
[01:28:33] <jp_mill> so im stuck with it?
[01:29:23] <pcw_home> well figure out whats wrong with differential mode/drives/wiring/jumpering
[01:29:32] <pcw_home> etc
[01:33:02] <pcw_home> the normal fix for noisy signals is differential mode signaling
[01:33:03] <pcw_home> There are other possible workarounds. but differential encoder
[01:33:05] <pcw_home> inputs not working suggests hardware problems somewhere
[01:33:23] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Do you know anythgn about 10W drivers?
[01:33:30] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Do you know anythgn about 10W LED drivers?
[01:33:40] <pcw_home> no
[01:33:51] <Jymmm> pcw_home: WTH! lol
[01:33:59] <MrHindsight> constant current power supplies
[01:34:22] <Einar> PWM Choppers.
[01:34:27] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: Yeah, no.
[01:35:18] <pcw_home> is that like the Hells Angels?
[01:35:45] <Jymmm> Not really
[01:38:20] <Einar> jp_mill: Looking at your pictures I cannot see where your cable screens are grounded. In digital signal paths they should be grounded at both ends.
[01:38:52] <Jymmm> Einar: O_o
[01:46:09] <jp_mill> thats because they are not im using cat 5 utp therefor no shield.
[01:46:54] <Einar> OK. It's actually better with no screening that screening that is not grounded.
[01:47:25] <Einar> I mean PROPERLY grounded.
[01:49:00] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Got a pocket butane stove today, works pretty good actually.
[01:50:36] <witnit> mill the table?
[01:50:50] <witnit> sabotender: mill the table?
[01:51:34] <zeeshan> massive failure tonight
[01:51:40] <zeeshan> x-axis ball screw doesnt work
[01:51:40] <zeeshan> =/
[01:51:56] <witnit> the ball or the screw?
[01:51:57] <zeeshan> tried machining the ball nut (btw it is hardened steel, only carbide end mill would cut it)
[01:51:59] <witnit> tee heee
[01:52:01] <zeeshan> the ball nut
[01:52:21] <zeeshan> it still hits the apron
[01:52:21] <zeeshan> =/
[01:52:46] <witnit> grind it?
[01:52:51] <zeeshan> no i milled it
[01:52:54] <zeeshan> thats not the problem
[01:52:57] <zeeshan> the problem is it still doesnt fit
[01:53:13] <zeeshan> i can't remove any more material from the ball nut =/
[01:53:23] <witnit> pictures
[01:53:29] <zeeshan> from what im seeing, it looks like i have an interference of 6mm
[01:53:31] <zeeshan> ~
[01:53:35] <zeeshan> maybe 5 mm
[01:55:26] <sabotender> witnit: pardon?
[01:56:16] <witnit> like you would grindle a magnetic vise with the wheel on a surface grinder maybe the best way to get it aligned is to machine it with the router head its self
[01:56:17] <sabotender> i dont have the equipment to make my own, and the expenses to get said equipment will cut into material expenses to the degree that i would not be able to make a complete device.
[01:56:43] <zeeshan> anyone got a link to a rotating ball nut design
[01:56:46] <zeeshan> for a lathe cross slide
[01:57:11] <sabotender> also. im an electrical engineer, not a mechanical. im already up to my ears in plans to make something anyway. im on limited expenses so i canve to get what i can afford
[02:00:41] <witnit> so, sabotender im just saying you could add a second layer to the plate and place an endmill in the spindle and mill the new plate flat and put your own fixures there
[02:01:03] <sabotender> oh! lawl
[02:01:13] <sabotender> i completely misundersood you
[02:01:13] <witnit> so... its perfectly aligned
[02:01:18] <witnit> :)
[02:02:34] <witnit> I was just using a surface grinder as an example since when you want to clean up the magnetic chuck you just regrind it and your good to go.
[02:03:03] <witnit> probably most confusing :)
[02:06:19] <witnit> sabotender dont be afraid to get a big enough plate you can make and add your own T slots in.
[02:07:58] <sabotender> witnit: I havent even purchased the item yet, I just was doing a bit of research on the one I was considering getting
[02:08:07] <witnit> ahh
[02:08:15] <sabotender> *some* people found that their plates were a bit unbalanced
[02:08:44] <sabotender> and since I will be using mine primarily for pcb engraving, a level plate is paramount
[02:09:28] <sabotender> it does not have ball screws but I have accepted that as an unavoidable trade off for the price
[02:09:54] <sabotender> so I have to do research on how to extend the life of lead screws
[02:10:36] <MrHindsight> lubrication
[02:10:38] <witnit> you can always upgrade with quailty parts if you buy a reasonably good structure
[02:11:08] <sabotender> witnit: it is highly likely that i will be getting this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-complete-kits-/191148893869?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c815ca6ad#shpCntId
[02:12:21] <MrHindsight> sabotender: it will probably need some extra work, I don't see any nuts on the ballscrews
[02:12:36] <sabotender> witnit: that is just the thing. I firmly believe that the particular design is superiour to the other crappy Chinese designs that I see floating around
[02:12:42] <MrHindsight> all the ones I've gotten had to be reworked
[02:12:52] <sabotender> MrHindsight: there aren't any ball screws on that thing
[02:12:58] <sabotender> those are lead screws
[02:13:44] <archivist> rework mean make square etc
[02:13:45] <MrHindsight> ok, but how is the preload on the bearings set?
[02:13:55] <MrHindsight> shims? no preload?
[02:14:07] <witnit> he is drilling pcb
[02:14:29] <sabotender> I have absolutely no idea. My knowledge on this technology is limited.
[02:14:30] <witnit> so, its not THAT important that it has any lateral support
[02:14:46] <archivist> milling pcb requires 0 backlash for good results
[02:15:19] <MrHindsight> the last two had free floating bearings on one end, 2-3 lbs of force gave you 5mm of lash
[02:15:22] <archivist> this is the lead screw and its endfloat and nut
[02:15:47] <witnit> I would take such and item and upgrade to servo and ballscrew for accuracy if you are doind serious work
[02:15:51] <sabotender> MrHindsight: you must be carrying on a separate conversation.
[02:15:53] <sabotender> it seems
[02:16:41] <sabotender> witnit: that probably will not happen any time soon. I will just design my circuits to fit the limitations of the fabrication device
[02:16:49] <MrHindsight> sabotender: what keeps the leadscrews from moving under any axial load?
[02:17:06] <archivist> sabotender, no he wants you to read, these are known problems with chinese machines
[02:17:15] <sabotender> MrHindsight: I do not have any additional information besides what is on that ebay page
[02:17:19] <MrHindsight> one end uses the stepper motor bearings
[02:17:31] <MrHindsight> the other has no nut
[02:17:43] <witnit> its gonna wiggle
[02:17:45] <witnit> :P
[02:18:15] <MrHindsight> so if you push on the spindle it's going to move without the screw being turned
[02:18:50] <sabotender> so...how did the guy get such results on that youtube link? I doubt he was using a retrofitted Sable with better parts
[02:18:51] <MrHindsight> same for that table
[02:19:17] <witnit> that table is not good imo
[02:19:33] <sabotender> witnit: it is all I can afford, so it will have to do
[02:19:36] <witnit> but if you are just drilling pcb who am I to judge :)
[02:19:43] <sabotender> I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a table
[02:20:02] <archivist> witnit, not just drilling but also milling
[02:20:21] <MrHindsight> thats the thing, for no more money they could put nuts on the end of the screws
[02:20:33] <MrHindsight> well ok 0.$50
[02:20:42] <MrHindsight> heh $0.50
[02:20:53] <witnit> if hes milling.. hes just going to have to take a long time I dont see any other way around it
[02:21:19] <sabotender> time is one thing that I have in abundance right now.
[02:21:46] <sabotender> so it matters not if it takes an hour or more.
[02:22:31] <sabotender> this one here is slightly better it appears: Panther-210 but I was told that the collet is sub par so I went meh on it
[02:22:44] <sabotender> well...sub par to the point of it being dangerous
[02:23:04] <MrHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
[02:23:25] <MrHindsight> somebody needs to send that article to China ^^
[02:23:37] <witnit> hindsight for the win
[02:23:43] * sabotender sighs
[02:24:13] <MrHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg
[02:24:17] <sabotender> MrHindsight: I can't afford one with ball screws. I have already mentioned that for ME it is an acceptable loss. I know how that is difficult for some people to understand
[02:24:25] <sabotender> but I must remain within my budget
[02:24:51] <MrHindsight> even leadscrews should be fixed in the same way
[02:25:49] <sabotender> what? with a nut?
[02:25:55] <MrHindsight> ballscrews have less friction so they are more durable, but the mounting requirements are the same
[02:26:05] <witnit> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390801243471
[02:26:17] <sabotender> are you saying that it is missing a key part for safety?
[02:26:18] <MrHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/fixed-end894.jpg
[02:26:23] <witnit> I found that rather quickly, with a little work you could find something to match your needs
[02:26:43] <witnit> yeah if you dont want tooling flying at your face
[02:27:57] <witnit> the tooling gets sucked into material and the tooling is small it breaks at some-odd thousand rpms
[02:28:06] <sabotender> maybe the nut is there but hidden in the picture
[02:28:23] <witnit> if you have backlash it gets sucked into material
[02:29:18] <sabotender> I am sorry, but you two have lost me. It really does seem that the two of you are talking about separate things
[02:29:32] <MrHindsight> please read the article
[02:29:32] <miss0r> I am working with inkscape and gcodetools here - trying to figure it out. I am having some issues: I can't figure out how to set the z infeed dept. Any suggestions?
[02:29:43] <MrHindsight> we are on the same subject
[02:30:03] <MrHindsight> with all the play you'll have you'll be breaking tools
[02:30:30] <sabotender> ...I can't afford anything better so it will have to do.
[02:30:42] <sabotender> I am off to watch more star trek voyager.
[02:30:50] <MrHindsight> small high speed tools that want to keep spinning according to Newton after they break
[02:31:31] <MrHindsight> just get some good shop glasses then
[02:31:35] <witnit> I bet that sean guy and him would get along
[02:31:36] <witnit> :)
[02:31:59] <MrHindsight> witnit: have any kids?
[02:32:04] <witnit> nope
[02:32:07] <archivist> sometimes they have to actually make the mistake to understand
[02:32:17] <witnit> true
[02:32:24] <MrHindsight> thats what they are like from 1 to about 30
[02:32:42] <witnit> :P
[02:32:57] <archivist> I think some last past 30
[02:33:26] <MrHindsight> don't get me started
[02:33:48] <archivist> easier to wind up than a clock :)
[02:34:18] <MrHindsight> school must be out already
[02:39:16] <witnit> sorry miss0r I have no idea about such tools all I do is simple little commands in a text editor
[02:40:22] <MrHindsight> miss0r: it's in one of the tabs inside the gcode plugin
[02:41:13] <MrHindsight> you'll just have to play with it, there's no docs but there are some good youtube vids that walk you through it all
[02:54:19] <witnit> if I just added the voltage to turn this on and not anything else, I COULD see it with my wifi card right?
[02:54:29] <witnit> so I could use it like a remote sensor?
[02:54:52] <witnit> www.ebay.com/itm/121331269037
[02:55:49] <witnit> maybe there is a good channel I should ask I bet the arduino guys would know right away
[02:55:53] <MattyMatt> I doubt the radio gets turned on until it's commanded to via pci
[02:56:30] <witnit> I wonder if I could automate that part
[02:56:30] <MattyMatt> there are wifi modules that are much simpler to use with arduino
[02:56:46] <witnit> well I just want a one way signal
[02:57:23] <witnit> but it would be powered by a small solar panel and only once or twice a day just to relay the message of its state
[02:57:39] <witnit> so, it would either come on during this time period or it would not.
[02:57:53] <witnit> depending on a mosture sensetive sensor
[02:57:59] <witnit> moisture*
[02:59:13] <witnit> what do you think the most economical one way system would be?
[03:00:27] <MattyMatt> one of those man and lady in a house with catgut, and a webcam with a telescopic lens >:)
[03:02:14] <MattyMatt> seriously, I'd want a full system that connects to a router, so for instance an arduino with wifi module
[03:03:02] <MattyMatt> for a simple one way, I'd be tempted to use that 455Mhz garage door opening radios. they're cheap
[03:03:11] <witnit> www.ebay.com/itm/261318126405
[03:03:23] <witnit> I want to do this on a large scale with less $$$ s
[03:03:39] <witnit> and automate the watering with linuxcnc
[03:04:08] <witnit> one line per raised bed with a relay board and valves
[03:04:20] <witnit> if expecting rain, no water
[03:04:23] <witnit> :)
[03:04:42] <MattyMatt> would the sensors along the line be wired?
[03:04:49] <witnit> no
[03:05:05] <witnit> they ar e for other plans in the long run
[03:05:18] <Jymmm> witnit: distance?
[03:05:22] <witnit> a very specific sprinker system
[03:05:34] <witnit> which only waters the locations where the meters are
[03:05:40] <MattyMatt> so a 2d grid of wireless sensors, that all need to report periodically?
[03:05:45] <witnit> via directional nozzle
[03:05:49] <Jymmm> witnit: distance?
[03:05:49] <MattyMatt> and may not due to solar failure etc?
[03:05:50] <witnit> yes
[03:05:54] <witnit> yes
[03:06:01] <witnit> only once or twice a day
[03:06:04] <Jymmm> witnit: distance?
[03:06:09] <witnit> not sure jymm
[03:06:13] <witnit> repeaters are options
[03:06:14] <Jymmm> witnit: guess
[03:06:33] <witnit> 50 meters
[03:06:39] <Jymmm> witnit: LOS?
[03:06:46] <witnit> slight grade
[03:06:48] <witnit> but yes
[03:06:55] <Jymmm> witnit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/433Mhz-WL-RF-Transmitter-Receiver-Module-Link-Kit-for-Arduino-ARM-MCU-Wireless-/380717845396?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a48d4b94
[03:07:26] <witnit> watched
[03:07:40] <witnit> this looks perfect
[03:07:53] <witnit> I can possibly adhoc such a thing and do even longer runs
[03:08:10] <witnit> is that the term? adhoc
[03:08:11] <witnit> ?
[03:08:15] <Jymmm> It's $1.28 BUY IT NOW
[03:08:28] <witnit> yeah I should learn these things huh jym?
[03:10:34] <archivist> problem with those is how many on a channel
[03:10:36] <Jymmm> witnit: Calculate the transmitter antenna length, and You can use a directional antenna for the receiver if power level is too low.
[03:11:01] <MattyMatt> you'd have to time multiplex
[03:11:54] <MattyMatt> maybe broadcast a time signal, although I can't think of an easy way for an arduino to pick that up
[03:12:35] <Jymmm> witnit: Since it goes down to 3.5V, you *MAY* be able to run it directly from solar panel
[03:13:13] <witnit> that would be good but I would need the feedback and sunset or sunrise in most cases
[03:13:42] <Einar> That would work. I made temp+humidity sensors with ATmega16 and a 433MHz xmitter. It is adressed, so can use up to 8 sensors. They send every 3 minutes appx. They are skewed in time by their address, so if the messages collide they will not next time.
[03:13:54] <witnit> I woulld be dismantling yard lights with batteries in them anyhow and sensors for timing
[03:14:45] <Jymmm> witnit: Setup the tranmistters on the face of the clock if you can't set an address for each one.
[03:15:01] <witnit> well I was trying to keep it very simple to begin
[03:15:38] <Jymmm> xx:05, xx:10: xx:15, xx:30: xx:45, etc
[03:15:40] <witnit> at sunrise the sensor is notified and check for water in soil, if not there it gets water, then same thing at sunset, it would check again
[03:16:05] <witnit> oh ok
[03:16:12] <Jymmm> You can have up to 60 transmitters then
[03:16:16] <witnit> ooh
[03:16:23] <witnit> more than enough
[03:16:48] <Jymmm> or 12 Tx every 5 minutes
[03:16:52] <MattyMatt> there was that trick the russians used against hitler, the batteryless bug. you fired a directional 30khz beam at it, and it bounced back 60khz modulated by microphonic eagle
[03:16:56] <Jymmm> whatever you choose
[03:17:10] <witnit> nice
[03:17:20] <witnit> so if I get a big enough microwave...
[03:17:40] <Jymmm> witnit: Or setup on a 100ths of an hour clock
[03:17:56] <Jymmm> lots of combinations
[03:18:33] <MattyMatt> the arduinos xtal will all drift. you can't ask them to stay on a strict schedule like that, unless they reset at daybreak
[03:19:07] <witnit> these will automaticly relay any time a matching signal is pumped out without any other smart programming, just simple voltage?
[03:20:11] <witnit> i should read hahah
[03:22:07] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/315Mhz-WL-RF-transmitter-Receiver-Module-Link-Kit-for-Arduino-ARM-MCU-Wireless-/400479296104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3e6d1a68
[03:22:32] <Jymmm> free shipping and at 315MHz insteadof 430MHz (less crap up there)
[03:23:42] <witnit> well this being the case I could easily just have them turn on and off and that be good enough so long as they arent sharing channels
[03:24:14] <Jymmm> I mean interferance with cops, FD, ham radio, garage door openers etc
[03:24:36] <Jymmm> 433MHz is ham radio
[03:25:04] <Jymmm> also TV
[03:25:12] <MattyMatt> arr it's UHF here
[03:25:15] <witnit> im rather secluded in the area, they travel pretty short so I could probably be alright
[03:25:55] <Jymmm> Heh, you would be surprised
[03:26:00] <witnit> I could always trim the transmitters antenna and use my directional antenna
[03:26:34] <Jymmm> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/8945
[03:26:47] <MattyMatt> yeah I was thinking radome in the middle of the field for the receiver powered harmonic bug idea
[03:27:54] <witnit> ooh datasheets
[03:28:45] <Jymmm> http://www.instructables.com/id/RF-315433-MHz-Transmitter-receiver-Module-and-Ardu/
[03:28:56] * MattyMatt wonders how high you need to squirt a waterjet, before it'll fall as soft rain
[03:28:58] <witnit> oh btw, if you live in the area anyone, here is probably an outstanding buy many lots
[03:28:59] <Deejay> moin
[03:29:03] <witnit> http://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/koster-industries/catalogue-id-bscko10098/lot-29788e28-0d6f-481a-85b2-a315010b600e
[03:29:04] <witnit> mojn!
[03:29:10] <Deejay> hi witnit
[03:30:09] <witnit> I was thinking i could use a pressure washer for the long rang stuff or a remote turret on a hose
[03:30:21] <witnit> safety and all
[03:30:28] <witnit> pressure washers are no joke
[03:31:36] <MattyMatt> you could make a robot tractorlet that patrols the beds and maybe delivers the water
[03:32:21] <witnit> yeah I thought about it matt
[03:32:27] <witnit> it would be a task though
[03:32:34] <Jymmm> witnit: http://www.instructables.com/id/RF-315433-MHz-Transmitter-receiver-Module-and-Ardu/?ALLSTEPS
[03:32:35] <witnit> I think a turret is the easiest
[03:32:55] <witnit> jymm, I will be driving a mesa card with them not a duino tho
[03:33:53] <MattyMatt> hoses to each bed would probably be most reliable, but a lot of work to install and inspect regularly
[03:33:54] <witnit> so I could just use the feedbackof each device that way as a signal or a predefined handshake somehow
[03:34:12] <witnit> yeah but so much work because I have alot of lime in my water
[03:35:23] <witnit> but with two directional turrets and a small area for the relayed valves and simple water of raised beds I could do those easily with just a few maybe lines. maybe best to use big hose though
[03:35:57] <witnit> hahah I dont know what all it will take but the first step Is relaying the information back reliably
[03:36:14] <witnit> and remotely for items which I may have to manually water
[03:37:11] <witnit> the idea with the turret is I can program it to aim at the sensors location and not waste water by watering surrounding areas
[03:37:59] <Jymmm> witnit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-sets-433Mhz-RF-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Link-Kit-Module-for-Arduino-/121249875549?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3b0e465d
[03:38:36] <witnit> that looks good to me
[03:38:59] <witnit> I think I will try them and see what kind of headaches I can create for myself
[03:40:23] <witnit> so long as I can get the state of the sensor back to the computer im happy (also not get the cops called on me over watering my garden)
[03:41:43] <witnit> I could also program the turrets to not spray the targets if the weathers is windy, or be very pro and compensate for the wind
[03:43:33] <witnit> I need a quadcopter with a water scoop
[03:44:04] <witnit> and gps+emc+farmers almanac
[03:47:33] <witnit> jymmm this is going to be so simple, thank you
[03:47:42] <Jymmm> np
[03:47:49] <witnit> and affordable
[03:48:28] <witnit> I could probably get by with just using a printer port this until I add the other plots
[03:48:44] <witnit> maybe two printer ports
[03:57:17] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TORO-IRRIGATION-53812-WIRELESS-XTRA-SMART-PRECISION-SOIL-MOISTURE-SENSOR-NEW-/161285858915
[03:58:18] <MattyMatt> ah that's just one. normal price is $40 each
[04:03:36] <witnit> I think I could make it so you could just buy something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/111317752367
[04:03:41] <MattyMatt> here's an idea. small mcu takes readings during the day, and transmits it in IR bursts at night with an ID code, so the webcam watching the field can separate them
[04:04:14] <witnit> and then buy the turret and build it so it can be powered by the water running through the hose and placed anywhere
[04:04:38] <JesusAlos> tjtr33: do you think Beaglebone have good latency test for stepper machines?
[04:05:13] <MattyMatt> buy an asimo, and teach it to pick up soil, crumble it in its hand, and say "arrrrr"
[04:05:29] <witnit> do you think they can walk on a peg leg?
[04:09:26] <JesusAlos> for your ironic comments understand that not going well latency
[04:13:41] <witnit> ?
[04:15:05] <JesusAlos> don't undestand me?
[04:15:24] <witnit> I dont know anything about the beaglebone
[04:18:33] <JesusAlos> do you know other embebed touchscreen PC option?
[04:34:41] <witnit> screen size?
[04:36:57] <witnit> I dont know any
[04:40:03] <MattyMatt> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/desktop-pc-monitors/desktop-pcs/all-in-one-pcs/lenovo-a720-27-touchscreen-all-in-one-pc-21305193-pdt.html
[04:40:45] <MattyMatt> lose the stand, make a steel bezel, et violas
[04:43:55] <JesusAlos> MattyMatt: very good option. But looking for any like beaglebone price and format
[04:44:27] <witnit> maybe this could offer right price and package? www.ebay.com/itm/390827784001
[04:46:32] <MattyMatt> I'd risk a beaglebone for a stepper machine
[04:47:01] <MattyMatt> faster cpu, and a community of people beating down the latency in the OS for it
[04:47:08] <witnit> yepo
[04:50:23] <witnit> I wonder if a guy could 3d print a circuitboard in layers and make them into modular cubes
[04:51:48] <witnit> if it didnt overheat you could get the circuits into a much smaller space and .... probably almost indestructable
[04:51:59] <MattyMatt> I've seen modular cubes with components built in. they've never caught on, too expensive for what they do
[04:52:21] <witnit> yeah but, the awesomeness of size and such
[04:52:44] <MrSunshine> https://phonebloks.com/en/goals
[04:52:46] <MrSunshine> =)
[04:52:51] <MrSunshine> talking about blocks and all :P
[04:53:00] <witnit> you could build your wiring into the structers
[04:53:04] <witnit> structures
[04:53:06] <witnit> ooooh
[04:53:07] <MattyMatt> 2d chips are already 40 odd layers or whatever, so as soon as the heat limit is addressed, intel will make cubular chips
[04:53:23] <witnit> neat :)
[04:54:04] <MattyMatt> in the 80s, there was an attempt to stack a few wafers BGA style, but that never caught on
[04:54:16] <witnit> the people that frequent this room pull that off
[04:54:24] <MattyMatt> except for the NAS chip under your x86, of course >:)
[04:54:30] <MattyMatt> ^NSA
[04:54:37] <witnit> shhh
[04:56:04] <MattyMatt> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sale-Rugged-10-4-Inches-Industrial-Fanless-LCD-Touch-All-In-One-Rugged-Industrial-PC/785631384.html
[04:56:05] <witnit> I swear this galaxy not listens to stuff people says and reports back to google adsense
[04:56:49] <witnit> galaxy note*
[04:58:47] <witnit> I was talking about the neighbors dogs and next thing I know my ads are filled with dog leashes, kennels, and food bowls. i dont have a dog :/ and never typed about in my pc. I pull my tinfoil hat on tight when around it
[05:01:05] <MattyMatt> a libertarian tab woulda heard your opinions about the dogs, and gone and offed them for you like thomas a becket
[05:01:46] <MattyMatt> that's the future with the Central Google Agency
[05:01:51] <MattyMatt> ^without
[05:02:34] <Incognito675> shhh, they are watching...
[05:03:00] <MattyMatt> they always were
[05:03:04] <witnit> username is relevant
[05:04:27] <Incognito675> yes, if your paranoid :P
[05:05:57] <witnit> any of you guys do production turning?
[05:06:02] <witnit> any of you guys do production turning?
[05:06:07] <witnit> oops
[05:06:43] <MattyMatt> not unless you count the odd batch of reprap parts
[05:07:44] <MattyMatt> 50 toothed pulleys all the same etc
[05:07:57] <witnit> nah
[05:08:17] <witnit> I was thinking like steel, 2,000+ holes per run
[05:08:34] <witnit> I sent some drills out for special coating
[05:08:43] <witnit> incredible change
[05:10:27] <MattyMatt> TiAlN coating? yellow stuff
[05:10:34] <witnit> purple
[05:10:46] <witnit> I used to used the yellow
[05:11:03] <witnit> and my drill supplier switched coating companies and the drills went to trash
[05:11:11] <witnit> so I looked around and found balzers
[05:11:24] <witnit> worth every penny
[05:12:02] <witnit> I was getting about 250 holes before the landing would load up, right now im at 1400+ holes and counting and the have not changed one bit
[05:12:34] <MattyMatt> I'll bear that in mind if I ever rebuild the Meccano factory
[05:12:44] <MattyMatt> it's flats now, iirc
[05:14:04] <Incognito675> make have taken a few dozen kits to build up flats in meccano!
[05:18:14] <witnit> I will be trying this on another set of drills I have here http://www.oerlikon.com/balzers/en/products-services/balinit-coatings/balinit-futura-top/
[05:47:02] <Einar> Do they recoat sharpened drills / mills?
[06:35:46] <witnit> yes
[06:36:00] <witnit> Einar: yes
[06:42:21] <_methods> witnit: what drills did you go with?
[06:42:34] <_methods> i've had very good luck with the yg-1 dream drills
[06:42:58] <_methods> their tsc drills and regular drills are hard to beat
[06:42:58] <witnit> parabolic precision twist 41/64 drilling 3" deep
[06:43:13] <witnit> with oild from behind
[06:43:16] <witnit> oil*
[06:43:19] <_methods> 6xd
[06:43:22] <_methods> decent hole
[06:43:52] <witnit> the tool edge is wearing faster than the corners of the drills now
[06:44:00] <witnit> which is a major +
[06:44:16] <_methods> what company the drills from?
[06:44:19] <witnit> ptd
[06:44:22] <_methods> ah
[06:44:26] <witnit> cheap cost on drill
[06:44:29] <_methods> yeah
[06:44:33] <witnit> many regrings with coating now
[06:44:34] <_methods> i never even look at them
[06:44:36] <witnit> regrinds
[06:44:46] <_methods> might have to reconsider
[06:44:56] <witnit> I will aim you at the ones im using specifically
[06:45:01] <_methods> you're getting 2000+ holes
[06:45:16] <_methods> that's a good count
[06:45:22] <_methods> steel?
[06:46:37] <_methods> getting ready to do a 600+ job so would be fun to try something else out
[06:46:38] <witnit> 1215
[06:47:18] <_methods> screw machine stock
[06:47:32] <_methods> easy machining there
[06:49:06] <_methods> for a hole that size i'd be using an insert drill though
[06:49:09] <_methods> sandvik 880
[06:49:37] <_methods> i think they have them that small
[06:50:12] <_methods> tight tol on the hole?
[06:50:51] <_methods> ah nm
[06:50:55] <_methods> nothing that deep
[06:51:04] <_methods> 5xd max
[06:51:14] <_methods> forgot you were shootin 3"
[06:51:43] <_methods> well hell nm you could do it with 5xd
[06:51:50] <_methods> so yeah i'd go with an 880
[06:52:09] <_methods> 3.2" on 5xd
[06:53:14] <witnit> cant do insert drill in my case
[06:53:19] <_methods> ah
[06:53:28] <witnit> bad chip formation and cost per hole due to depth and oil from rear
[06:53:36] <witnit> I need coolant through for such tools
[06:53:49] <_methods> yeah
[06:54:01] <witnit> which diameter hole for the 600+?
[06:54:04] <_methods> well 2000+ holes is good
[06:54:31] <_methods> i'd stick with what you're using if you get that many without coolant through
[06:54:32] <witnit> yeah I dont know how long it will go for, I will let you guys know
[06:54:46] <witnit> yeah the cost of the drills is insanely cheap
[06:54:54] <_methods> yeah that's another +
[06:54:57] <_methods> what drill is this
[06:54:57] <witnit> and I can regrind over and over
[06:55:22] <witnit> https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=015841&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#channel=fs&q=precision+twist+drill+parabolic+bright&tbm=shop
[06:55:25] <witnit> these
[06:55:36] <witnit> I buy mine from strobel supply
[06:56:05] <_methods> shit just plain old ptd drills eh
[06:56:18] <witnit> $32 dollars each for jobber length then I send out for coating
[06:56:26] <witnit> yep, easy peasy
[06:56:33] <_methods> cvd
[06:56:36] <_methods> coating
[06:56:47] <witnit> Im running tens of thousands of these parts
[06:57:28] <_methods> well that's where these drills will not help you
[06:57:43] <_methods> as long as you are meeting deadlines though
[06:58:01] <_methods> if you need to make parts faster you'll need to get better drills than those
[06:58:20] <witnit> the drills are good to be flexible so they follow the spot drill and since its a multispindle and the spindles do not all alignt properly they cant be too ridgid
[06:58:30] <_methods> but for 3" deep hole without through spindle coolant you're kinda screwed
[06:58:53] <witnit> so I must keep away from carbide and harder tool steels
[06:59:21] <_methods> yeah that sucks
[07:02:17] <witnit> its all about that coating though IMO I just needed that particular drill for this application
[07:02:27] <_methods> what coating?
[07:04:12] <_methods> ah just read up
[07:04:12] <witnit> looking for invoice, I tried two this last time
[07:04:14] <_methods> tialn
[07:04:22] <witnit> not sure which specific one thoughh
[07:04:34] <witnit> I need to see the names again they are similar
[07:06:37] <witnit> futura nano
[07:06:42] <witnit> was the particular one I used
[07:07:01] <witnit> keep in mind you should pick enough tools to send in to fill the minimum order of 150
[07:07:05] <witnit> $150
[07:07:45] <witnit> I punch tens of thousands of holes, worth every penny in both downtime and tool life.
[07:08:40] <witnit> "futura nano top"
[07:11:04] <_methods> yeah
[07:11:13] <_methods> well i'll keep them in mind that's for sure
[07:11:49] <witnit> I think in your case with harder materials choose a better drill
[07:11:56] <_methods> yeah
[07:12:02] <witnit> in my case I need the flex and low cost
[07:12:03] <_methods> well it depends on teh job
[07:12:07] <_methods> we have coolant through
[07:12:22] <witnit> yes you can use a better coating then
[07:12:22] <_methods> so will be going carbide for ours
[07:12:38] <witnit> mine I chose to deal with a dry socket, so high temp coating
[07:12:53] <witnit> and not so much focus on the hardness
[07:13:20] <witnit> in your case tempurature and coolant flow is no issue
[07:13:28] <witnit> do you have have high pressure coolant through?
[07:14:56] <_methods> nah
[07:15:03] <_methods> just regular
[07:15:08] <_methods> i wish
[07:19:01] <witnit> if you try this stuff out let me know how it works
[07:19:04] <witnit> http://www.oerlikon.com/balzers/en/products-services/balinit-coatings/balinit-pertura/
[07:19:17] <witnit> that is the next one I want to do but for all my carbide drills
[07:19:24] <witnit> not my hss
[07:19:56] <witnit> from the research I did, it has some good results
[07:55:47] <jthornton> see you guys Monday
[07:58:17] * archivist checks the irc time off list
[07:58:28] <jdh> where ya going?
[08:02:16] <jthornton> SpyderFest
[08:02:26] <jthornton> spyderfest.com I think is the url
[08:02:53] <_methods> ah shit the kenny powers cycle
[08:03:43] <_methods> http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk308/ToddM6/kennypowers.jpg
[08:04:04] <jthornton> yep that is one
[08:04:40] <jdh> so, it's biker week, sort of.
[08:04:43] <jthornton> there will be over 500 spyders there
[08:05:00] <jthornton> not really spyder people are much more fun to be around
[08:05:42] <jdh> most people are!
[08:06:20] <jthornton> time to load up
[08:19:36] <_methods> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit-de3815tykhe.html
[08:19:40] <_methods> new nuc with atom
[08:19:59] <_methods> might be interesting for fanless fun
[08:20:06] <_methods> not much horsepower
[08:20:20] <_methods> 2 serial port headers on it
[08:23:44] <pcw_home> Baytrail so faster than the previous atoms
[08:24:40] <_methods> i can't imagine you'll be decoding the universe with it or anything
[08:25:28] <_methods> might be fun for little minimill project
[08:25:46] <pcw_home> 5W
[08:25:54] <pcw_home> (CPU)
[08:26:23] <_methods> i think they're saying it's going to be $99 for the mobo, $129 for the kit, then you need to get ram
[08:26:35] <_methods> so probably around $300 with 4gb ram
[08:26:48] <_methods> need a hdd or ssd too i guess
[08:26:50] <pcw_home> Needs 3.11 or > kernel so no RTAI for a while
[08:27:04] <_methods> ah i saw the * by linux
[08:27:08] <_methods> but couldn't find the note
[08:27:14] <pcw_home> (for full video support)
[08:27:36] <_methods> oh well scratch that then
[08:28:17] <pcw_home> not sure why the kernel is involved for HD graphics support and not just X driver
[08:29:32] <_methods> no idea
[08:30:43] <pcw_home> The 10W Baytrail CPUs are fairly impressive for what they are (J1800, J1900, J2900)
[08:30:45] <pcw_home> they run circles around the D525s
[08:31:04] <_methods> yeah i use one of the d525's for my pfsense router/firewall
[08:31:36] <_methods> great little computer for that
[08:31:47] <_methods> i tried using one for my htpc
[08:31:51] <_methods> dind't work so well
[08:32:22] <pcw_home> the J1800,1900 or 2900 would be a lot better
[08:32:32] <_methods> yeah they weren't out when i built it
[08:32:53] <_methods> d525 was the top of the line then
[08:33:30] <_methods> well "top of the line" at the bottom lol
[08:33:37] <pcw_home> I was never able to run a faster servo thread than
[08:33:39] <pcw_home> about 2 KHz on the D525s The j1800 is fine at 4 KHz
[08:33:57] <_methods> really so the baytrails are fine for that eh
[08:34:03] <_methods> i never would have thought to try them
[08:35:58] <pcw_home> That NUC has a 4G eMMC so might be OK for linuxcnc if it had some I/O
[08:38:27] <pcw_home> 1.46 MHz single core is not going to be a speed demon though
[08:40:09] <_methods> yeah
[08:40:17] <_methods> i didn't think it would be breakin any barriers lol
[08:42:50] <skunkworks_> looks like 14.04 is out.. didn't see the announcement
[08:46:32] <_methods> yeah i think it came out a couple weeks ago
[08:54:59] <tjtr33> is there a way to leave a msg for an away user?
[08:55:34] <jdh> y0 dood... read this when you get back:
[08:56:03] <jdh> or you could /msg them... depending on their client it might show up someplace noticable
[08:56:23] <tjtr33> some escaped (slash) command. , ok thx ( Jesus did not read scrollback )
[08:56:25] <Jymmm> tjtr33: If they are registered: /msg memoserv send username blah blah blah
[08:56:39] <tjtr33> wow thx Jymmm
[08:57:16] <jdh> I forgot my password about 30 seconds after setting it so I am not really registered.
[08:57:54] <tjtr33> grrr not reg'd
[08:59:11] <archivist> the bot has a !later use !later nick message
[08:59:21] <Jymmm> jdh: /msg nickserv set password hubbabubba
[08:59:46] <jdh> only works if you are signed in.
[09:00:21] <tjtr33> !later JesusAlos "look at http://derekmolloy.ie/beaglebone/qt-with-embedded-linux-on-the-beaglebone/ for touch screen BBB i/o control"
[09:00:21] <the_wench> will tell JesusAlos when he/she joins next
[09:00:30] <tjtr33> thx wench :)
[09:00:37] <tjtr33> (& archivist )
[09:09:31] <Jymmm> jdh: If you forget your password, but still have access to the email account that is associated with the IRC account, staff can send a password reset email. Simply ask in #freenode or PM a staff member to have the email sent.
[09:11:26] <jdh> I asked 3 or 4 times. never had any success. but, signing in doesn't really add any value afaict
[09:12:30] <Jymmm> jdh: If the channel gets flooded by bots (for example) might enable identified users only, then you would be muzzled.
[09:12:59] <jdh> yeah. I'm not sure I add much value either so...
[09:13:34] <Jymmm> lol, yeah, you do ;)
[09:14:26] <jdh> I ran across some pics on cnczone of a teardown of chinese 800w water cooled spindle. Doesn't look too bad, especially for the price.
[09:14:33] <Jymmm> who the fsck said that?! MY ACCOUNT GOTS HAX0R3D
[09:16:40] <Jymmm> jdh: how much?
[09:17:49] <jdh> they go for < $400 shipped w/ vfd
[09:18:11] <Jymmm> ah
[09:19:39] <Jymmm> I got a neat little pocket stove yesterday, now looking to get the adapter to use the cheap fuel =)
[09:19:41] <_methods> you got link to the teardown?
[09:21:59] <_methods> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles-vfd/129454-water-cooled-chinese-spindle-disassembly.html
[09:22:02] <_methods> that one?
[09:22:49] <jdh> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles-vfd/129454-water-cooled-chinese-spindle-disassembly-3.html
[09:22:58] <jdh> yeah. pics on page 3 also
[09:23:01] <_methods> k
[09:24:54] <jdh> looks like those had bad bearings though
[09:25:12] <_methods> yeah that plastic bearing cover....
[09:25:22] <_methods> shield
[09:25:49] <jdh> it's not that it is 'good', just good for the $
[09:25:56] <_methods> yeah
[09:26:15] <_methods> where else are you going to get a spindle for that price
[09:28:29] <_methods> i wonder who's design they stole for the spindle
[09:28:45] <_methods> they don't seem to be capable of creating their own designs
[09:29:05] <_methods> so they must have copied and shortcutted someone elses spindle design
[09:29:31] <archivist> there is a book of spindle designs
[09:30:19] <archivist> Spindles, Harpit Sandhu, Special Interest Model Books Ltd 2008
[09:30:19] <jdh> I'd think the money and differentation would be in teh bearings
[09:31:03] <archivist> and how well the ground the bearing mount serfaces
[09:31:10] <_methods> ^^
[09:32:16] <archivist> not funny getting the internal and external concentric either
[09:32:26] <_methods> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles-vfd/160047-look-inside-chinese-3-0kw-water-cooled.html?160047-A%20Look%20Inside%20a%20Chinese%203.0kW%20Water%20Cooled%20Spindle=
[09:38:17] <archivist> "bearings both the same way" was that an assembly error
[09:49:49] <miss0r1> oh the horror! I just milled 4 2mm holes in my vacuum table on my cnc. and did the same on a pcb I was going to build. But it only fit one way. It turns out my CNC is off by 1.5mm diagonally over the range of 180mm. (chinese quality!) I have decided to build my own to get a proper accuracy. Can you guys recommend a place to buy linear bearing rails and stuff like that, which is accurate but will not ruin me?
[09:49:57] <MrHindsight> !help
[09:50:58] <skunkworks_> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/144464
[09:52:52] <mozmck> skunkworks_: exciting! ...or is it?
[09:53:09] <skunkworks_> sounds like conditional gcodes will only be available to the $1000+ version
[09:53:19] * skunkworks_ hugs linuxcnc again
[09:53:37] * miss0r1 hugs the chinese cnc and cries
[09:54:54] <skunkworks_> so.. does anyone have any 9 axis gcode I could test?
[09:55:06] <skunkworks_> http://imagebin.org/308482
[09:56:45] <mozmck> miss0r1: I think the accuracy problem will be in your screws and nuts instead of linear rails. I believe most linear rails should be fine, but I don't have a lot of experience there...
[09:57:54] <archivist> miss0r, with linear rails the plates to which they mount keep them straight
[09:58:04] <miss0r1> mozmck, I placed in ontop a 100k+ usd cnc mill earlier, and tested with a dial. The rails in the bottom(Y axis) vary by 1.281mm along their length
[09:58:13] <archivist> machine design matters
[09:58:34] <archivist> use the fancy machine to fix yours
[09:58:54] <miss0r1> as in - even thou they were placed accurately in both ends, they are still "lumpy" along the length.
[09:59:18] <miss0r1> I am going to build a new one on the fancy machine - from scratch, with a ridiculous accuracy
[09:59:22] <skunkworks_> the rails are only as strait as what they are bolted to....
[09:59:33] <mozmck> I guess that means they are not supported in the middle?
[09:59:37] <miss0r1> skunkworks, Which, in this case, is also horrible
[10:00:00] <miss0r1> mozmck, They are not. They are round rods, with the bearing all the way around
[10:00:10] <skunkworks_> oh - yeck
[10:00:14] <mozmck> I see.
[10:00:24] <archivist> you can with a surface table and scrapers get it straight
[10:00:42] <miss0r1> This machine is fine for making small signs and stuff like that, but it will never do for my two sided pcbs
[10:00:46] <mozmck> archivist: sounds like just bent rods.
[10:01:00] <archivist> I have a hatred of bar rail systems
[10:01:05] <miss0r1> mozmck, also, the rest of the construction is quite poorly made.
[10:01:16] <mozmck> I imagine so.
[10:01:41] <miss0r1> Which is why I have decided to build a new one. I just need to find a reliable supplyer of stuff for it
[10:04:16] <archivist> upgrade some old iron
[10:04:30] <miss0r1> ?
[10:04:55] <mozmck> Well, there are a lot of suppliers. Check on cnczone.com
[10:05:58] <mozmck> archivist means to upgrade an existing machine to cnc I think.
[10:06:24] <miss0r1> I have one, but it is horribly huge.
[10:06:40] <miss0r1> The question is, if that even makes sense money wise
[10:07:28] <mozmck> It depends on what you want. If you want to machine metal - definitely makes sense.
[10:07:37] <mozmck> for you pcb mill, maybe not.
[10:07:40] <miss0r1> indeed.
[10:07:49] <archivist> often yes because old iron is straight and flat and solid
[10:11:21] <mozmck> miss0r1: here's what you need: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/48428-mikes-pipe-cnc.html
[10:11:36] <mozmck> or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PSG2al1Sus
[10:12:13] <MrHindsight> heh
[10:12:19] <_methods> noooooooooooo
[10:12:21] <miss0r1> holy.... I was hoping for something a bit 'sturdier'
[10:12:23] <miss0r1> :)
[10:12:41] <mozmck> hahaha! maybe this is better: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191148893869
[10:12:57] <archivist> effin pipe dream
[10:12:59] <MrHindsight> for PCB milling applications a light version of these for the table http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/120097386/T_slot_Surface_Plate.jpg
[10:13:31] <MrHindsight> but nobody is exporting them from China yet in any volume
[10:14:41] <miss0r1> meh. I have to run. catch you later
[10:14:51] <MrHindsight> but printing multilayer PCB's is just around the corner using DLP and laser
[10:15:10] <_methods> in consumer market?
[10:15:56] <MrHindsight> _methods: yes, it's fast and cheap
[10:16:11] <_methods> i'm sure
[10:16:30] <_methods> but in the home market?
[10:17:08] <MrHindsight> faster and lower cost for production as well vs plating, etching, drilling, laminating etc
[10:19:59] <MrHindsight> I haven't seen any t-slot that has flatness <0.001" over 12"
[10:20:24] <MrHindsight> so it would have to be surfaced
[10:21:27] <MrHindsight> if you built a mold where you placed the flat face down on top of a glass plate and the poured epoxy granite over it could work
[10:23:08] <malcom2073> how fast does the step clock run on a beagleboneblack with the pru?
[10:28:39] <MrHindsight> 80/20 metric profiles are only guaranteed 0.32mm / 0.004" per 25.4mm / 1" of width
[10:30:21] <_methods> malcom2073: http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/spruh73j/spruh73j.pdf
[10:31:19] <skunkworks_> malcom2073: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/44185/match=step+frequency
[10:31:22] <_methods> pg 4147
[10:31:29] <malcom2073> _methods: Yes, it's a 200mhz cpu. Does not mean it can do 200mhz step clock
[10:31:41] <MrHindsight> http://cloudfront.zoro.com/product/large/5JTA6_AS01.JPG if you have this trued up it would no longer be anodized
[10:32:05] <malcom2073> 50khz? Huh
[10:32:07] <malcom2073> I would've expected a lot more
[10:32:28] <_methods> from a bbb?
[10:32:46] <malcom2073> Yes, the PRU is a dedicated microcontroller running at 200mhz
[10:32:48] <malcom2073> and there are two of them
[10:33:03] <malcom2073> If a 16mhz arduino can do 40khz
[10:33:07] <malcom2073> why can't a 200mhz mcu do better?
[10:33:09] <malcom2073> do much better*
[10:33:33] <MrHindsight> the PRU's are separate microcontrollers
[10:33:34] <skunkworks_> he hints that is probably can...
[10:33:55] <MrHindsight> they don't run at 200mhz
[10:34:34] <_methods> pretty sure you can run an xtnl at whatever you want
[10:34:49] <_methods> pg 4150
[10:35:08] <_methods> just skimmin the datasheet
[10:35:22] <MrHindsight> for the same price of the BBB's arm soc you can get other arm soc's with gpu's to support HD video and add a FPGA
[10:35:27] <_methods> there's a lot of relevant data in there...........
[10:35:42] <malcom2073> _methods: I'm not that electrically inclined, I was asking about what was currently available with linuxcnc and the PRU, I don't understand 99.9% of that datasheet heh
[10:35:48] <tjtr33> isnt there a limit on how fast you could pump current into the stepper coils? and get the rotor to react?
[10:36:31] <archivist> yes
[10:36:31] <_methods> ah sorry
[10:36:36] <tjtr33> i killed the dload when you said 'pg 4147'
[10:36:36] <malcom2073> tjtr33: Yes, that limit is the maximum rpm of the stepper I would assume
[10:36:54] <MrHindsight> the BBB's arm soc should be $10-12 but it's what, $20 something
[10:36:59] <_methods> yeah it's a datasheet/book lol
[10:37:02] <malcom2073> MrHindsight: I'm not into designing my own boards :)
[10:37:03] <archivist> you need higher step rates with microstepping
[10:37:38] <MrHindsight> malcom2073: yes, but others are
[10:38:58] <malcom2073> MrHindsight: Ah ok.
[10:39:11] <MrHindsight> http://linuxgizmos.com/sbc-mimics-raspberry-pi-has-faster-cpu-adds-sata/
[10:39:24] <MrHindsight> new boards like these ^^
[10:39:50] <malcom2073> not looking for a project for years down the line, trying to figure out what's available now.
[10:40:05] <_methods> ah nice link
[10:40:16] <malcom2073> I'll start looking into what that Steinkuehler guy is doing
[10:41:14] <MrHindsight> whats the frame rate at 1024x768 running AXIS on the BBB?
[10:41:29] <malcom2073> No clue
[10:41:48] <malcom2073> Probably pretty low, the BBB isn't made for video stuff
[10:42:53] <malcom2073> The few capes I've found for cnc stuff all use the same pins as LCD, so I'd likely run it headless with remote control anyway.
[10:44:30] <MrHindsight> so then you another system for the UI
[10:46:09] <MrHindsight> the 2 systems for one machine approach, like lots of cheap FDM printers that get expensive since you have to add a PC
[10:49:05] <malcom2073> PC's are cheap, especially in comparison to the cost of the rest of the system
[10:49:24] <malcom2073> My main isuse is a PC can't output the step rate needed.
[10:49:29] <malcom2073> hence, the second system.
[10:49:49] <malcom2073> The BBB approach was to avoid having to get a larger PC with a pci port, mesa card, etc.
[10:49:55] <R2E4> The problem with PC's is you have to find the right one to work with inuxCNC
[10:50:40] <malcom2073> R2E4: I have one that works, it has a bit high of a jitter rate though so I can only get 30khz out of it
[10:51:12] <malcom2073> Which would be plenty if my drivers weren't hard-locked to 10 microstep
[10:51:29] <R2E4> Yeah, I have one that works also. no problems other than the gui locking up once every two weeks.
[10:51:37] <pcw_home> The Baytrail MBs look pretty good long term (I got ~8 usec latency with the 2.6.32 RTAI kernel)
[10:52:15] <tjtr33> 10 uStep? G540?
[10:52:19] <malcom2073> tjtr33: Yeah
[10:52:26] <tjtr33> me too :(
[10:53:10] <malcom2073> I love the G540, I'd just love it more ifI could turn it down to 1/2 or 1/4 step heh
[10:57:28] <pcw_home> 32 to 64 u stepping is about optimum (for smoothness, diminishing returns above that)
[10:57:32] <_methods> are you using onboard video?
[10:59:44] <R2E4> I have a G540 also running microsteps, I dont have enough torque now as it is, so if it was capable of micro microstepping...:-), i would be worse off because of the torque loss.
[11:00:46] <malcom2073> _methods: on the BBB?
[11:00:50] <malcom2073> Or on the PC that i'm hitting the limit on
[11:00:56] <pcw_home> There is no torque loss with microstepping
[11:00:57] <malcom2073> The PC I am using onboard video
[11:01:14] <skunkworks> have you enabled doublestep?
[11:02:14] <_methods> yeah you might want to try a discrete graphics card
[11:02:24] <malcom2073> I need to more than double my current step rate
[11:02:26] <_methods> i've never had good luck running with the onboard video
[11:02:47] <malcom2073> Or, reduce my microsteps heh
[11:02:52] <pcw_home> The MX3660 looks like a nice G540 upgrade
[11:03:48] <malcom2073> pcw_home: and it has anti-resonance, that's nice. I'll have to do some research on that guy
[11:04:04] <skunkworks> malcom2073, have you tried doublestep?
[11:04:08] <malcom2073> skunkworks: I have not
[11:04:29] <skunkworks> or for $89 you can buy a mesa 5i25 and get hardware stepgen...
[11:04:32] <pcw_home> Thats should about double you max possible step rate
[11:04:41] <skunkworks> right 'about'
[11:04:48] <malcom2073> The 5i25 is looking REALLY good haha
[11:04:53] <skunkworks> depending on step timing and such...
[11:04:56] <pcw_home> (doublestep)
[11:05:13] <malcom2073> I have to buy a stepper drive regardless, my 540 is on load
[11:05:15] <malcom2073> loan*
[11:05:31] <malcom2073> So I think doublestep is a good direction to go, and that 3660 may be a good alternative to buy as well
[11:05:37] <malcom2073> I'll give that a shot
[11:05:39] <pcw_home> try doublestep first then hardware solutions,BBB etc
[11:05:56] <Connor> Th 3660 is nice.
[11:06:01] <malcom2073> Like I said, 1/4 step is plenty enough for my application, and would reduce my issues
[11:06:18] <pcw_home> 3660 is 3 axis instead of 4 but I think 6A max
[11:06:32] <malcom2073> My 4th axis is a nema17 with its own driver anyway, so I can live with 3 axis control
[11:06:40] <skunkworks> 3660?
[11:06:55] <malcom2073> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/3-axis-dsp-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a
[11:08:17] <malcom2073> The other nice thing about the BBB is that it's tiny. I can stick ti underneath the machine and just use my dekstop to control it when I need to, then disconnect and let it do it's thing.
[11:08:42] <malcom2073> But that may be a later upgrade if doublestep and/or the 3660 work otu
[11:12:32] <_methods> well try droppin a vid card in there
[11:12:38] <_methods> see if that fixes your jitter issues
[11:12:54] <_methods> cheap and easy potential fix
[11:18:58] <malcom2073> _methods: I'll try that after the doublestep, may need tob uy one
[11:19:38] <skunkworks> what is your jitter?
[11:19:51] <_methods> goodwill
[11:19:55] <_methods> thrift stores
[11:20:17] <_methods> pick up old cards for nothing
[11:20:25] <malcom2073> _methods: I have some friends who may have old PCI cards laying around heh
[11:20:28] <malcom2073> skunkworks: let me check
[11:20:29] <_methods> yeah
[11:20:32] <malcom2073> skunkworks: iirc, 25k
[11:21:12] <archivist> I got some old compaq's recently that seem to be 15k safe
[11:21:37] <malcom2073> yeah, 25k base period maximum jitter
[11:23:56] <Connor> What sort of computer?
[11:24:08] <Connor> Singe or Dual Core ?
[11:24:14] <Connor> Hyper Threading ?
[11:24:21] <malcom2073> single, no hyperthreading
[11:24:26] <malcom2073> it's an older AMD, 2ghz iirc
[11:24:32] <Connor> Power Management ?
[11:24:52] <malcom2073> in terms of cpu stepping? I don't think so
[11:24:54] <malcom2073> not 100% though
[11:25:16] <Connor> Any Power Management, wake on lan, etc..
[11:25:27] <malcom2073> I'll make sure I have that stuff disabled.
[11:25:36] <Connor> turn it all off.. the use extra IRQ's which can cause extra jitter.
[11:25:40] <malcom2073> this PC is temporary, just to make sure that things worked, so I'm not dead-set on this pc
[11:27:18] <malcom2073> My reason for leaning towards the BBB was because I already have a BBB, and since I have to buy stepper drivers anyway, what's another $100 on top of that for a BBB cnc cape? heh. But at least I got a couple things to try and play around with now, see if I can get it usable as-is
[11:28:43] <MrHindsight> we get <10uS on anything AMD made in the past 8 years
[11:29:53] <MrHindsight> ~5uS with tweaked RTAI kernels
[11:32:29] <malcom2073> i'm getting 33uS with mine, though I've not made sure power management and the like is off
[11:37:03] <cradek> a random old box I took home from work's recycle pile gives me <10 with the 3.4.55-rtai-2 kernel, once I set the bios right
[11:38:06] <cradek> it's some weird server board
[11:53:19] <MrHindsight> tjtr33: http://www.essentracomponents.com/ just down the road
[12:11:00] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:16:28] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: its so hot at your place and dry like desert ? Cnn acording california at firer state
[12:21:24] <IchGuckLive> hi somenewguy_shp cnc pool so you got lots of questions ! O.o
[12:29:42] <IchGuckLive> so no action here this europ evening
[12:29:57] <IchGuckLive> im going out today the national BBq day
[12:30:10] <IchGuckLive> lots of good stuff on the oven
[12:31:47] <MrHindsight> auf dem Rost braten day?
[12:32:00] <MrHindsight> oh he left
[12:46:23] <_methods> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/usb-motion-controller
[12:46:25] <_methods> hahahah
[12:46:36] <_methods> a 6 axis machine controller
[12:46:40] <_methods> usb no less
[12:46:57] <_methods> is there something in the 3d printer filament that makes them stoopid?
[12:47:00] <xxoxx> cool
[12:47:30] <xxoxx> i heared it's the corn in PLA
[12:47:35] <xxoxx> ABS is fine
[12:48:02] <xxoxx> makes it "corny"
[12:48:03] <skunkworks_> _methods: that is probably legit...
[12:48:17] <_methods> where's the 6th axis?
[12:49:10] <Connor> in gmoccapy, I don't see a button a +/- button for spindle speed.. Was that omitted for some reason ?
[12:49:21] <MrHindsight> maybe it's the nanoparticles that get emitted while extruding?
[12:49:50] <_methods> i guess maybe the spindle is the 6th axis
[12:50:02] <_methods> or the coolant pump
[12:50:49] <_methods> maybe they're controlling robots with mach3 i guesss
[12:50:57] <_methods> i have no idea bout mach3
[12:51:01] <skunkworks_> xyzab
[12:51:06] <skunkworks_> xxyz
[12:51:14] <skunkworks_> xxyza
[12:51:36] <skunkworks_> xxyzab
[12:51:44] * skunkworks_ can't count
[12:52:02] <_methods> alright well i guess i'll shut up about it
[12:52:15] <_methods> that last one adds up to 6 i guess
[12:52:34] <MrHindsight> you guys are being logical again, facts don't matter just popular opinion
[12:52:58] <MrHindsight> if they say it 7.5 axis, it's 7.5 axis
[12:53:25] <skunkworks_> xyzabc
[12:53:29] <skunkworks_> :)
[12:53:35] <skunkworks_> I think mach is 6 axis...
[12:56:26] <MrHindsight> whats their approach? reference clock generated on the PC with PLL on the USB device side that syncs every second or so?
[12:57:03] <MrHindsight> you just can't interrupt or expect to change anything within about 250mS
[12:58:47] <skunkworks_> I think the thing is a motion device and mach sends it waypoints..
[12:59:04] <skunkworks_> time and postion or something like that. (buffered device)
[12:59:52] <MrHindsight> for open loop and a well designed PLL/clock it will work
[13:01:21] <MrHindsight> actually with open loop you just need a good clock on the USB device side
[13:02:56] <_methods> for $130 i think i'll pass
[13:06:18] <_methods> is it really that hard to find a parallel port?
[13:20:42] <_methods> i guess this is the datasheet for that thing
[13:20:44] <_methods> http://cncdrive.com/MC/UC100%20datasheet/UC100%20users%20guide.pdf
[13:36:22] <MrHindsight> I don't see an oven controlled oscillator on that board
[13:44:46] <_methods> i shouldn't do this but i really just can't control myself
[13:44:47] <_methods> http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-chocolate-pri
[13:44:49] <_methods> nter-made-from-LEGO/
[13:44:57] <MrHindsight> for small parts or short programs a decent xtal should be ok
[13:45:02] <_methods> http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-chocolate-printer-made-from-LEGO/?ALLSTEPS
[13:45:58] <MrHindsight> maybe for big parts and long programs it could home itself every few minutes to resync the clock
[13:47:27] <_methods> now this 3d printer is cool
[13:47:29] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5MYQB1NdsXA
[13:48:29] <MrHindsight> we only get 1mS updates with position and time info from most robots if we use their controller
[13:48:36] <malcom2073> _methods: that's gross (the chocolate printer)
[13:48:43] <_methods> hehe
[13:48:56] <malcom2073> I have kids, I know how clean legos are.
[13:49:09] <MrHindsight> makerpoop
[13:49:10] <jp_mill> well i think i solved my drift problem
[13:49:15] <_methods> about as clean as teh chocolate fountain
[13:49:25] <_methods> groundin issue?
[13:49:30] <malcom2073> Haha, never one of them, I'm not that old :)
[13:50:07] <jp_mill> no had to abandon using the morot encoder or drive encoder outputs
[13:50:46] <MrHindsight> _methods: we do similar only with smaller and multiple nozzles
[13:51:41] <jp_mill> added a second encoder and all is fine.
[13:51:48] <_methods> ah good deal
[13:52:24] <jp_mill> i think the diff voltage on the old ab drive is too small. manual says 2V
[13:56:04] <archivist> make sure your Z is the right way round kiddies http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27245264
[13:56:23] <_methods> hehe
[13:56:42] <tjtr33> MrHindsight, thx for the link
[13:59:43] <tjtr33> skunkworks, you were typing in a lot of combos, i think the magic word was xyzzy ( colossal caves by Crowther , or how to do cross products ) :)
[14:00:34] <jdh> plugh
[14:01:08] <zeeshan> jdh
[14:01:16] <zeeshan> i'm stuck on my X axis
[14:01:16] <zeeshan> lol
[14:01:27] <jdh> imagine that.
[14:01:30] <zeeshan> haha
[14:01:42] <zeeshan> dude, i removed 2mm from each flat side of the ball nut
[14:01:47] <zeeshan> and it fits in the slot no problem
[14:01:58] <zeeshan> i made the bottom oval part of the ball nut flat
[14:02:05] <zeeshan> w/ the round part of the the ball nut
[14:02:11] <zeeshan> (had to use carbide end mill)
[14:02:11] <jdh> I could run mine, but I dislike the X so much I haven't even hooked up the motor
[14:02:50] <zeeshan> problem is
[14:03:03] <zeeshan> it's still hitting the bottom of the slot that it rides in
[14:03:09] <zeeshan> i think theres a 2-4 mill interfernce
[14:03:10] <zeeshan> i can't tell..
[14:03:18] <jdh> mill out the cross
[14:03:23] <zeeshan> i dont wanna do that
[14:03:28] <zeeshan> it'll decrease the strength of it
[14:03:42] <zeeshan> also i dont wanna drill the 2 holes it passes through bigger either
[14:03:47] <jdh> mine doesn't go all the way across or i'd try mounting a ballnut on teh back
[14:03:50] <zeeshan> i think if i made em instead of the .791" they are right now
[14:04:03] <zeeshan> made em 1"
[14:04:04] <zeeshan> i mean
[14:04:11] <zeeshan> then the ball screw could be 'raised up'
[14:04:22] <zeeshan> the other option im thinking of that requires no modification of the apron is..
[14:04:27] <zeeshan> why not remove the ball screw threads?
[14:04:33] <zeeshan> where the 2 holes are
[14:04:33] <_methods> i never knew lnt made cnc machines hehe i always thought they just made bar feeders
[14:04:40] <zeeshan> what do you think about that jdh?
[14:05:21] <jdh> not seeing it
[14:05:25] <zeeshan> let me draw it
[14:05:27] <zeeshan> or take a pic
[14:05:28] <zeeshan> sec
[14:05:30] <jdh> teh front and back holes?
[14:06:21] <_methods> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCRCcwDeKQ
[14:07:10] <malcom2073> _methods: That guy makes me want to punch him in the face like a used-car-salesman kinda way
[14:07:20] <_methods> lol
[14:07:27] <_methods> sorry about him
[14:07:31] <_methods> the machine is sexy though
[14:07:44] <_methods> damn subspindle on the turret
[14:08:22] <malcom2073> That's an awesome machine, so the idea is more axis, more operations at once?
[14:08:23] <malcom2073> That's nuts
[14:08:47] <_methods> hehe that's a miniature factory
[14:08:52] <malcom2073> It is
[14:09:12] <MrHindsight> http://www.okinternational.com/techcon/english/globalnavigation/products/dispensing-valves/valves/new-jet-valves/ts9200d-series $13K per nozzle LOL, i want what they are smoking
[14:10:29] <_methods> jesus those nozzles must break if you breathe near them
[14:10:32] <malcom2073> That's a crazy machine _methods
[14:11:01] <_methods> yeah i never knew LNT made machines besides bar feeders lol
[14:11:28] <_methods> but i've not spent much time around screw machines
[14:11:40] <_methods> we had a citizen and 2 stars at the last place i was at
[14:11:52] <zeeshan> uploading pics
[14:12:01] <jdh> that is a cool machine
[14:12:20] <zeeshan> MrHindsight: youre prolly paying for r&d costs too
[14:12:29] <MrHindsight> heh, nope
[14:12:45] <zeeshan> then they must be made out of diamonds
[14:12:45] <MrHindsight> thats the old line about patents
[14:13:26] <MrHindsight> they are simple to make and if the R&D was more than in the $K's they were cheated or lying
[14:13:32] <zeeshan> i really wish i had a spare lathe =/
[14:14:09] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/nw7kPgh.jpg
[14:14:13] <MrHindsight> so US $13.3K and in China $300
[14:14:14] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/mFYNyfT.jpg
[14:14:19] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/LiNFypU.jpg
[14:14:27] <zeeshan> first pic
[14:14:34] <zeeshan> notice the way the ball screw passes through 2 holes?
[14:14:40] <MrHindsight> thats why the US so so screwed for manufacturing
[14:14:43] <zeeshan> jdh!
[14:14:43] <zeeshan> :P
[14:16:12] <jdh> I don't think opening up those holes would do much to it
[14:16:18] <humble_sea_bass> 11axis. I bet the programmer for that machine is either the pimpest dudein the world or the most concerned
[14:16:21] <zeeshan> jdh why not
[14:16:26] <zeeshan> i could shift the whole ball nut assembly
[14:16:27] <zeeshan> up more
[14:16:51] <_methods> yeah you definitely want the estop inserted fully in the sphincter when you're provin that program out
[14:16:58] <zeeshan> so the bottom of the nut doesn't touch the bottom of the slot it's riding in
[14:16:58] <jdh> I mean I dont' think it would hurt anything to open it up
[14:17:15] <zeeshan> see instead of modifying the apron
[14:17:27] <zeeshan> i was thinking of removing the ball screw threads from there
[14:17:27] <humble_sea_bass> the way it rig taps is kind of heart stopping
[14:17:33] <jdh> I don't think I ccould live with a sideways breaker panel
[14:17:42] <zeeshan> and making the diameter of the screw from roughly 20mm to 16mm
[14:17:45] <jdh> threads are worthless there
[14:17:49] <zeeshan> jdh i love the sideways panel!
[14:17:54] <zeeshan> im short
[14:17:57] <zeeshan> i can access all my breakers!
[14:18:03] <jdh> grow
[14:18:09] <zeeshan> im 4'8"
[14:18:13] <zeeshan> er
[14:18:16] <zeeshan> 5'8"
[14:18:26] <jdh> heh... there's a lot of difference in those two
[14:18:29] <zeeshan> haha
[14:18:40] <zeeshan> 4'8" is midget terrirotry
[14:18:46] <MrHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140501-3d-printing-with-flx-arm-a-low-cost-precision-scara-robot-arm.html FLX.ARM since FLEXARM would tell you whats wrong with the design
[14:18:58] <_methods> hehe
[14:19:03] <_methods> i built a scara printer
[14:19:05] <zeeshan> is the ball screw hardened?
[14:19:07] <jdh> mine is solid on the back side
[14:19:09] <_methods> it was entertaining
[14:19:16] <zeeshan> jdh link to pics again plz
[14:19:24] <zeeshan> i have 1000 book marks
[14:19:28] <zeeshan> i dont wanna dig through them |:P
[14:19:29] <_methods> fuckin nightmare calibrating it
[14:19:34] <jdh> don't have any
[14:19:41] <jdh> with teh slide off
[14:19:47] <zeeshan> ah
[14:19:56] <_methods> the 3d printed arms weren't accurate enough and threw off all the calculations
[14:19:58] <jdh> mine has no meat..
[14:20:16] <zeeshan> the problem with removing th eball screw threads is
[14:20:21] <zeeshan> i gotta either ask a favor at school
[14:20:28] <zeeshan> or go to a machine shop and ask them to do it
[14:20:30] <jdh> nah, just use an angle grinder
[14:20:34] <zeeshan> or put my lathe back together
[14:20:40] <zeeshan> so i can machine it
[14:20:57] <zeeshan> i could temporary mount a handle on the Z axis ball screw
[14:21:31] <jdh> I need a bigger lathe
[14:21:36] <zeeshan> you really love your angle grinder dont you
[14:21:37] <zeeshan> haha
[14:21:45] <jdh> best $8 I ever spent
[14:21:55] <zeeshan> how am i supposed to keep the ball screw round
[14:21:57] <zeeshan> with an angle grinder? :P
[14:22:20] <jdh> came off a traveling import tool truck. says 50hz only on it and has a really weird resonance
[14:22:21] <archivist> ball screw between centers :)
[14:22:32] <zeeshan> hey
[14:22:34] <zeeshan> thats not a bad idea.
[14:22:42] <zeeshan> i could hook up the vfd and just power the spindle
[14:22:46] <zeeshan> and hold the angle grinder by hand
[14:23:13] <archivist> bold the angle grinder to something and slide it
[14:23:23] <zeeshan> archivist: i have hand skills!
[14:23:28] <zeeshan> :P
[14:23:52] <jdh> surely there are lots of places at a school you could cut it.
[14:23:58] <zeeshan> it'd be so much easier with a carbide tool though
[14:23:59] <Einar> So you're afraid of weakening the apron by making place for the screw and nut. But weakening the ballscrew and nut is OK!?
[14:24:02] <jdh> I'd just open up the holes though
[14:24:12] <zeeshan> jdh: i think thats just as much work
[14:24:19] <zeeshan> i'd need to either use a 1" drill bit w/ a hand drill
[14:24:23] <jdh> dremel
[14:24:26] <zeeshan> which will break my wrist more than likely
[14:24:39] <zeeshan> i do have a die grinder
[14:24:40] <jdh> you only need to open up the top
[14:24:51] <zeeshan> but ill need a long reach carbide burr
[14:24:52] <_methods> mag drill
[14:24:58] <zeeshan> _methods: i wish
[14:25:05] <_methods> oh man no mag drill
[14:25:23] <_methods> mag drill = life
[14:25:26] <zeeshan> hehe
[14:25:27] <jdh> I'll pull my cross slide off and see if I could mill out mine all teh way through.
[14:25:29] <zeeshan> magdrill is also 1000$!
[14:25:40] <zeeshan> jdh you should be able to
[14:25:44] <_methods> that is the best $1000 you'll ever spend
[14:25:46] <zeeshan> dimnensionally ican fit a 16 mm ball screw
[14:25:51] <zeeshan> by making th ebottom flat on the ball nut
[14:25:51] <jdh> not mine
[14:25:58] <zeeshan> this is a 20 mm ball screw
[14:26:02] <zeeshan> i shoulda ordered 16mm. =/
[14:26:19] <_methods> mag drill is a real life saver especially with some nice annular cutters
[14:26:28] <zeeshan> can you rent one somewhere\?
[14:26:31] <_methods> yeah
[14:26:34] <_methods> most tool places
[14:26:44] <_methods> probably $30/day
[14:26:51] <zeeshan> hmm
[14:26:53] <zeeshan> thats worth it
[14:26:54] <_methods> sunbelt rentals
[14:27:02] <_methods> or any of those rental places
[14:27:22] <zeeshan> okay here help me narrow down what i should do
[14:27:34] <jdh> die grinder. you woudl be done by now
[14:27:42] <_methods> heheh i think your best bet is to take off the apron and mill it right
[14:27:56] <_methods> more work
[14:28:20] <_methods> but the right thing is never the easy thing
[14:28:30] <xxoxx> thinking about getting a faceting machine
[14:28:50] <xxoxx> use the faceting machine as a small grinder
[14:29:52] <zeeshan> if i modify the ball nut, 16mm , shear stress = 30000/sqrt(3) = 17320 psi = F / A = F / (pi/4)* .629^2
[14:30:18] <zeeshan> .629 = 16mm
[14:30:23] <jdh> you are way overthinking this.
[14:30:32] <zeeshan> so i can transmit 5300 lb of force before the ball screw yields
[14:30:40] <zeeshan> so i rather modify the the ball screw
[14:30:55] <zeeshan> then remove .125" from those holes!
[14:31:03] <jdh> the ballscrew is chinese steel
[14:31:07] <zeeshan> they are refinrfocement ribs
[14:31:18] <zeeshan> yea, steel is 30kpsi on the low end of yield strength :P
[14:31:19] <skunkworks> _methods, the usb motion controller is way more than a nice 5i25 from mesa.. (and less i/o)
[14:31:25] <jdh> right, but you don't have steel
[14:31:32] <jdh> you have a chinese ballscrew
[14:31:36] <zeeshan> lol
[14:31:42] <zeeshan> even if you divide it by 10
[14:31:45] <zeeshan> thatrs 500lb of force
[14:32:03] <zeeshan> ill at most ever put 300 of tangential force
[14:32:07] <zeeshan> if ever cutting 4340 steel
[14:32:24] <zeeshan> (roughing only)
[14:32:43] <zeeshan> on the other hand its easier for me to dismount the appron assembly
[14:32:52] <zeeshan> and put it on the mill and oval out those 2 holes
[14:32:53] <_methods> skunkworks: i agree i would never get that thing
[14:32:59] <_methods> i thought it was funny
[14:33:00] <zeeshan> or go buy a carbide bit with a longer reach
[14:33:00] <Einar> If you increase the hole you will remove the corse surface (stress risers), so it may even be stronger!
[14:33:07] <zeeshan> Einar: haha
[14:33:08] <zeeshan> good point
[14:33:14] <zeeshan> SOLD
[14:33:19] <zeeshan> i didnt think of that
[14:33:30] <zeeshan> DIE GRINDER IT IS!
[14:33:48] <zeeshan> now i gotta locate a die grinder with 6" reach :{
[14:34:33] <jdh> nah, you acn cut from both sides
[14:35:34] <archivist> boring bar on the mill
[14:35:45] <zeeshan> archivist: boring bar in the mill measn disassembly
[14:35:54] <zeeshan> die grinder means no disassemble :P
[14:35:54] <Einar> http://www.ebay.com/bhp/20mm-drill-bit
[14:36:04] <zeeshan> einar i have big drill bits
[14:36:12] <zeeshan> but hand drill with big drill bit = broken wrist
[14:36:16] <archivist> disassembly is good, you can fix and clean bits
[14:36:39] <zeeshan> good point
[14:36:40] <zeeshan> :P
[14:36:54] <zeeshan> i dont have a huge angle plate through
[14:36:57] <zeeshan> to hold it up
[14:37:10] <zeeshan> i think this piece is 24" wide
[14:37:22] <zeeshan> i'd a monster angle plate to hold it up
[14:37:28] <jdh> die grinder would generate some iron crud over teh ways also
[14:38:25] <Einar> Cut a 2x6 to angle and use vices. The accuracy of that hole is not affecting anything.
[14:38:47] <_methods> don't know how many of you use arduino for prototypin stuff
[14:38:49] <_methods> http://dangerousprototypes.com/2014/05/01/arduino-command-line-tool-minipirate/
[14:39:04] <zeeshan> einar youre right
[14:39:08] <_methods> thing lets you change pins and stuff on teh fly without recompiling
[14:39:15] <zeeshan> i think my vise grabs only 6" deep
[14:39:18] <zeeshan> or 4"
[14:39:19] <zeeshan> forgot
[14:39:27] <zeeshan> so 20" would be in the air :P
[14:39:31] <humble_sea_bass> that's useful Methods
[14:40:02] <zeeshan> ill just take light cuts
[14:40:10] <humble_sea_bass> the i2c thing is huge
[14:40:28] <zeeshan> this is where a horizontal mill would be beneficial :P
[14:40:30] <zeeshan> and easier to use!
[14:41:00] <Einar> !Vice. I was thinking carpenter clamps.
[14:41:15] <jdh> doesn't your mill head tilt?
[14:41:21] <zeeshan> yea by 45 degrees
[14:41:28] <archivist> use the lathe as a horizontal borer
[14:41:30] <jdh> well, you are halfway there
[14:41:35] <zeeshan> hahaha
[14:41:36] * archivist ducks
[14:41:43] <zeeshan> archivist: give me your horizontal mill
[14:41:44] <zeeshan> :D
[14:42:03] <archivist> you bring your saddle here
[14:42:08] <zeeshan> hah
[14:42:10] <zeeshan> lemme fly over
[14:42:17] <zeeshan> i'll pack a saddle in my suit case.
[14:42:20] <archivist> and a new vfd to get the mill running again
[14:42:22] <jdh> got half an hour? use a round file
[14:42:27] <zeeshan> ROFL
[14:42:35] <zeeshan> that'll take 10 years
[14:42:40] <jdh> it's cast iron
[14:42:46] <zeeshan> i'll just disassemble it
[14:42:48] <zeeshan> and use a die grinder
[14:42:49] <zeeshan> will be faster
[14:43:09] <zeeshan> and write "buy big ass angle plates"
[14:43:11] <zeeshan> on my white board
[14:43:21] <zeeshan> 24" angle plates would be nice to own
[14:43:25] <archivist> just had to search for a soldering iron to fix a soldering iron, grrrr
[14:43:33] <zeeshan> hahaha
[14:43:33] <jdh> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-file-1704.html
[14:43:41] <zeeshan> jdh
[14:43:44] <zeeshan> thats interesting
[14:43:46] <zeeshan> never seen that before
[14:44:00] <jdh> smaller than the one I was thinking of
[14:44:40] <Einar> Did you ever try grinding out a hole with a die grinder? Now imagine that on a 10-15cm extension. The bit will just be racing around the hole like mad.
[14:45:28] <jdh> no extension, just do it an an angle
[14:45:44] <zeeshan> einar i've used a 3" long carbide burr
[14:45:52] <zeeshan> when porting rotary iron housings
[14:46:13] <zeeshan> i dunno ill disassemble it
[14:46:22] <zeeshan> and figure out a way to mount it on the mill
[14:46:33] <zeeshan> if that doesnt work, ill use a carbide bit at an angle as jdh is suggesting
[14:46:41] <jdh> chisel
[14:46:47] <Einar> I would use the 21mm drill bit. But touch the cutting edges to have quite a bit of negative rake.
[14:47:04] <Einar> Then a hand drill can do it.
[14:47:31] <_methods> mag drill
[14:47:33] <_methods> lol
[14:47:34] <_methods> full circle
[14:48:00] <jdh> so, what holds yours down to the ways?
[14:48:07] <zeeshan> gravity
[14:48:17] <zeeshan> :P
[14:48:32] <jdh> mine has two little clamping things. One of which is semi-adjustable with a jack screw
[14:48:34] <Einar> Ahh! Fun with parting tools?
[14:48:41] <zeeshan> i'm kidding
[14:48:44] <zeeshan> theres some jack screws on the back side
[14:49:16] <jdh> I haven't added any holes/etc to mine. I could still put it back and sell it.
[14:50:30] <zeeshan> jdh
[14:50:32] <zeeshan> but your lathe is nice? :P
[14:50:33] <jdh> how are you going to mount teh bearing block?
[14:50:34] <zeeshan> dont give up
[14:50:45] <zeeshan> the floating one gets bolted directly to the back side
[14:50:45] <jdh> my lathe is a cheapass 9x20
[14:50:51] <zeeshan> and the front one gets bolted to the front
[14:50:55] <zeeshan> with the use of an appropriate spacer
[14:51:06] <zeeshan> i think itll need a .5" spacer
[14:51:15] <jdh> using the existing holes to attach the spacer?
[14:51:16] <zeeshan> to allow the cross slide to move to the stock location
[14:51:23] <zeeshan> jdh no
[14:51:28] <zeeshan> they will be shifted up by .25"
[14:51:31] <zeeshan> or .125"
[14:51:40] <jdh> same location, or outboard?
[14:51:41] <zeeshan> whatever clears the bottom of the ball nut
[14:51:50] <zeeshan> same location but offset .125 vertically
[14:52:01] <zeeshan> you know whats funny?
[14:52:14] <zeeshan> the supports actually bolt into the stock location
[14:52:19] <zeeshan> theyre the same width
[14:52:36] <zeeshan> if i were to use that, id have to remove .125" from the bottom of the slot the ball nut rides in
[14:52:46] <zeeshan> basically i need .125" clearance somehow :P
[14:53:05] <MrHindsight> who makes high pressure fuel injectors that are rebuildable?
[14:53:09] <Einar> Doesn't the apron run on prisms?
[14:53:18] <_methods> bosch maybe
[14:53:19] <zeeshan> einar what do you mean
[14:53:24] <zeeshan> MrHindsight: whats high pressure
[14:53:26] <zeeshan> 100psi?
[14:53:30] <zeeshan> or 5000psi
[14:53:39] <zeeshan> or 50000!
[14:53:45] <MrHindsight> over 40 psi
[14:53:54] <zeeshan> then you can use a regular car injector
[14:54:04] <MrHindsight> most are molded
[14:54:21] <Einar> A V-shaped groove in the apron running along an inverteed V on the bed.
[14:54:22] <MrHindsight> and can't handle 1500 psi
[14:54:22] <zeeshan> not all
[14:54:26] <zeeshan> oh
[14:54:28] <zeeshan> see you didnt tell me that
[14:54:34] <zeeshan> regular car injectors will only handle upto 150psi
[14:54:36] <MrHindsight> >40 psi
[14:54:43] <zeeshan> 1500psi, you need a direct injection fuel injector
[14:54:45] <MrHindsight> <2000psi
[14:54:45] <zeeshan> offf a diesel
[14:54:56] <MrHindsight> rebuildable
[14:55:09] <zeeshan> einar i posted the pics :P
[14:55:13] <MrHindsight> where you can modify the nozzle
[14:55:13] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/aRSsI
[14:55:14] <zeeshan> bottom 3 pics
[14:55:31] <zeeshan> MrHindsight: i know on regular car injectors, you can replace the nozzle..
[14:55:34] <zeeshan> its pressed in
[14:55:44] <zeeshan> im sure diesel is the same way
[14:56:01] <zeeshan> http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/4565216.jpg
[14:56:02] <zeeshan> nm
[14:56:04] <MrHindsight> all the ones I've come across fr cars are molded
[14:56:22] <MrHindsight> there you go
[14:56:25] <zeeshan> diesel fuel injector
[14:56:28] <zeeshan> vw tdi
[14:56:49] <MrHindsight> maybe all the diesel injectors are serviceable
[14:56:54] <zeeshan> they should be
[14:56:56] <zeeshan> they get clogged :P
[14:57:18] <jdh> solvent + pulser
[14:57:28] <MrHindsight> i have to see if they can handle being modded for higher viscosity fluids
[14:57:43] <zeeshan> http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/blog/unitronic-mkvi-tsi-big-turbo-dyno/vw-audi-unitronic-high-output-tsi-fuel-injectors/
[14:57:45] <zeeshan> those look expensive
[14:57:54] <zeeshan> but look mostly made out of metal
[14:57:54] <MrHindsight> and to change the pattern from wide and fine atomized to narrow
[14:58:18] <jdh> so pretty much nothing like a auto fuel injector
[14:58:20] <MrHindsight> $200 is better than $7k-13k
[14:58:26] <zeeshan> http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i1078/107830_11mg.jpg
[14:58:29] <zeeshan> insides
[14:58:41] <zeeshan> that cap looks pressed in
[14:58:41] <zeeshan> for sure.
[14:58:51] <zeeshan> how you get it out is beyond me :P
[14:59:06] <zeeshan> i think you grab the outer diameter of it
[14:59:12] <zeeshan> with a special tool
[14:59:21] <MrHindsight> yes, so of the 7.3 diesel and other like cummins are serviceable
[14:59:38] <zeeshan> what are moving through it btw?
[15:00:02] <zeeshan> water? :P
[15:00:07] <MrHindsight> polymers >10 cps to 100K cps
[15:00:18] <zeeshan> arent those very viscous
[15:00:26] <MrHindsight> skim milk to honey
[15:00:30] <zeeshan> oh
[15:00:32] <zeeshan> that isnt bad at all
[15:00:42] <MrHindsight> yes, thats why the high pressure
[15:01:04] <zeeshan> and you want it serviceable just incase you clog it
[15:01:08] <zeeshan> makes sense :p
[15:01:25] <zeeshan> those vw tdi injectors go for $10 at junk yards
[15:01:25] <MrHindsight> no, I'm going to modify the tips to change the pattern
[15:01:27] <zeeshan> and theres tons of them.
[15:01:29] <zeeshan> TONS!
[15:01:40] <MrHindsight> have to get some tomorrow
[15:02:11] <MrHindsight> they are basically high speed solenoid valves
[15:02:40] <MrHindsight> how many lbs per hour do you think the tdi's are? ~50
[15:03:11] <MrHindsight> it seems to be based on pressure and orifice size
[15:06:20] <MrHindsight> viscosity, pressure, flow resistance in the valve and orifice diameter
[15:07:52] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDsyOJTF_u8 precision mods
[15:07:55] <zeeshan> well an estimate is
[15:08:00] <zeeshan> they make like what 200 hp?
[15:08:27] <zeeshan> 200 / 4 = 50 lb
[15:08:38] <zeeshan> so 50lbs/hr sounds pretty reasonable
[15:08:49] <zeeshan> 1hp ~= 1lbs/hr
[15:09:30] <MrHindsight> looks like a 1.84mm orifice stock
[15:09:55] <MrHindsight> so I can make new plungers and orifices
[15:10:58] <MrHindsight> not bad for $20 or so each used
[15:17:52] <MrHindsight> zeeshan: I may have to visit the great white north for $10 tdi injectors, down here they all want $50
[15:18:15] <zeeshan> car-parts.com
[15:18:22] <zeeshan> try to use that to lcoate
[15:18:24] <zeeshan> used injectors
[15:18:35] <MrHindsight> yeah have to find some from not around here
[15:19:21] <jdh> local independent VW shop?
[15:19:28] <tjtr33> going to canadian bone yards? using these to meter fluid?
[15:19:47] <MrHindsight> set of 4 $75
[15:20:11] <tjtr33> it'd be nice if they were the push not just the valve
[15:20:22] <MrHindsight> tjtr33: deposit fluids, non-contact
[15:20:50] <MrHindsight> fancy air brush
[15:22:23] <tjtr33> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Injector3.gif
[15:24:18] <MrHindsight> zeeshan: they made those really hard to buy in the US for a while since they didn't guzzle fuel
[15:30:34] <MrHindsight> tjtr33: they are very similar to the valvejet printers, fluid under pressure with solenoid valve
[15:31:22] <MrHindsight> on the valvejets are a few psi and the fuel injectors may be >1K psi
[15:31:33] <tjtr33> i might pick up a couple at Massive ( spring Grove) and play. they had rails laying around
[15:32:33] <tjtr33> awk! never heard of QtQuickVCP before https://github.com/strahlex/QtQuickVcp for hal gui
[15:33:48] <MrHindsight> http://www.massivespeedsystem.com/cobb_tuning/cobb_tuning_fuel_injector/3p1100/i-1926944.aspx the automotive all look molded
[15:34:00] <tjtr33> hm embed injectors in graphite electrode for sink edm
[15:34:03] <MrHindsight> http://www.massivespeedsystem.com/injector_dynamics/injector_dynamics_id1300_injectors/g-74908.aspx
[15:34:27] <tjtr33> yep thats us
[15:34:45] <zeeshan> tjtr33: you work at injector dynamics?
[15:35:03] <tjtr33> no i have s sink edm at massive
[15:35:17] <zeeshan> o
[15:35:37] <_methods> man i been tryin to get my place to get a sinker for a while now
[15:36:10] <_methods> got a couple nozzle holes in some parts that were made to be done on edm
[15:36:12] <tjtr33> wait till i get done developing this project. its 65 amp 4 axis cnc with 30 posn atc ( 3R )
[15:36:37] <MrHindsight> I'm making the printheads to print printheads
[15:36:48] <tjtr33> catch22
[15:38:02] <MrSunshine> hmm these fluid ring vacuum pumps .. how the heck do they work ? feels like there would be alot of fluid loss ?!
[15:38:09] <tjtr33> modify or make? got a swiss & a coil winder and a sinker?
[15:40:10] <MrHindsight> I was just looking at elelctroforming again, it looking crude compared to 3d printing now
[15:43:27] <MrHindsight> the problem in the US is the patents
[15:43:47] <MrHindsight> if we buy and modify a fuel injector it's fine
[15:44:17] <MrHindsight> if you make your own there is probably going to be trouble
[15:44:57] <tjtr33> what if it wasnt a fuel injector? maybe its a whatzit
[15:45:07] <tjtr33> bbl
[15:45:15] <MrHindsight> since a fuel injector that deposits ink is $7k-13k
[15:45:30] <MrHindsight> and a fuel injector new is only $200
[15:46:11] <MrHindsight> the new 3d resin printer, powered by Bosch
[15:46:17] <_methods> hehe
[15:46:37] <MrHindsight> vs Oki or Nordson
[15:46:59] <_methods> is that the same oki that makes metcal soldering irons?
[15:47:39] <MrHindsight> yeah
[15:47:44] <_methods> interesting
[15:47:51] <MrHindsight> http://www.okinternational.com/techcon/english/globalnavigation/products/dispensing-valves/valves/new-jet-valves/ts9200d-series >$13K ea
[15:47:57] <MrHindsight> what a joke
[15:48:07] <_methods> ah now i get it
[15:48:13] <_methods> they are making those for solder paste dips
[15:48:15] <_methods> dispenser
[15:48:20] <MrHindsight> http://www.okinternational.com/techcon/english/globalnavigation/home
[15:48:44] <_methods> should have put that together sooner lol
[15:48:45] <MrHindsight> http://www.okinternational.com/techcon/english/globalnavigation/products/dispensing-robots-new these are like $40k
[15:48:46] <_methods> is it monday
[15:49:21] <_methods> ahhhh now i'm getting it more
[15:49:27] <_methods> your machines
[15:49:30] <_methods> making sense
[15:49:38] <_methods> pick and place and solder disp stuff
[15:49:43] <_methods> and those linear motors
[15:50:53] <MrHindsight> http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/efd/products/jet-valves/pages/default.aspx a bargain at $7k
[15:53:18] <MrHindsight> http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/efd/Literature/Brochures-Data-Sheets/Dispensers/Automation/Nordson-EFD-Multi-Axis-Data-Sheet.pdf $30-60K for a few $k of positioners
[15:58:27] <MrHindsight> _methods: it's all types of printing. micromachining and deposition tech
[16:02:25] <Deejay> gn8
[16:10:39] <gene78> Squawk about 2.5.4 current
[16:11:26] <gene78> After all this time, there is still no way short of the gui's x button, to stop a runaway initial code scan.
[16:13:07] <gene78> The not only leaves position.txt unwritten but requires a considerable amount of time to re-establish the home position, not to mention it leaves a batch of hall stuff I have to become root to kill before I can restart it.
[16:13:43] <gene78> Does this not bother anyone but me?
[16:14:47] <skunkworks_> do you mean when you hit a arrow key - it runs even when you let up?
[16:17:16] <cradek> gene78: you should be able to hit escape to abort a program load
[16:17:40] <_methods> yeah
[16:17:43] <_methods> esc
[16:18:18] <_methods> and estop makes it lose home?
[16:20:59] <skunkworks_> _methods: depends... (if you are open loop or not)
[16:21:00] <cradek> by "runaway initial code scan" I think gene78 means loading the gcode (for instance a bad gcode file that never ends)
[16:22:04] <_methods> ah true
[16:22:28] <skunkworks_> wow - I would have never guessed that... :)
[16:36:41] <cradek> I haven't tried aborting a program load lately - if it doesn't work let's get a bug report filed - it's supposed to be possible to abort it with ESC.
[17:56:59] <gene78> And that ESC Chris, was pronbably the only key I didn't try. I'll check that when this job gets done, about 45 minutes
[17:59:06] <MrHindsight> zeeshan: the Bosch diesel injectors can handle up to 29K PSI
[17:59:12] <zeeshan> damn
[17:59:13] <zeeshan> haha
[17:59:24] <zeeshan> did you find em cheaper?
[17:59:56] <MrHindsight> and can cycle in 400 uS
[18:00:46] <MrHindsight> still searching for a best fit, a few Canadian bone yards have the VW TDI versions for ~$20 ea used
[18:01:07] <MrHindsight> but new Bosch are only ~$200
[18:01:20] <gene78> As National Semi used to claim about on of the analog buffers, we have em fast, and damn fast
[18:06:59] <MrHindsight> zeeshan: and the Delphi programmable injectors handle up to 36K PSI, plus i found the factory in China
[18:12:39] <zeeshan> =D
[18:12:42] <zeeshan> delphi is made in china?
[18:12:43] <zeeshan> oh noes!
[18:13:01] <zeeshan> i thought this might be something to post here
[18:13:09] <zeeshan> a while back i did an experiment for metal cutting
[18:13:55] <zeeshan> we were trying to see the effect of depth of cut, feed rate, and cutting speed on cutting forces (feed force, cutting force, thrust force), surface roughness, and flank wear. the workpiece material was 1045 medium carbon steel. the tool material was uncoated carbide TNMG with a nose radius of 0.8mm, rake of 5 degree, and approach angle of 0 degree).
[18:14:01] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/lNj5n3t.png
[18:14:06] <zeeshan> those are the raw data results
[18:14:18] <zeeshan> sorry in SI units
[18:14:32] <zeeshan> but they show practical trends
[18:17:12] <MrHindsight> interesting
[18:17:29] <zeeshan> its nice to see some hard numbers
[18:17:40] <zeeshan> to get a sense of whats going on
[18:17:57] <MrHindsight> Cutting force vs depth is linear
[18:18:18] <MrHindsight> thrust flattens after 0.5mm
[18:18:37] <zeeshan> haha yea
[18:18:58] <zeeshan> prolly some error? :P
[18:19:01] <toastyde2th> nope
[18:19:03] <toastyde2th> not an error
[18:19:06] <zeeshan> we did repeat it twice
[18:19:55] <zeeshan> i wrote down
[18:20:10] <zeeshan> 'there was more contact between the tool and the work piece, thus the forces were expected to increase'
[18:20:12] <MrHindsight> when you watch high speed microscope video of the tool cutting it makes more sense
[18:20:28] <zeeshan> MrHindsight: we did use a microscope
[18:20:33] <zeeshan> you know whats crazy?
[18:20:40] <zeeshan> you get the 'built up edge'
[18:20:48] <zeeshan> as soon as you see the built up edge
[18:20:57] <zeeshan> you can visually see on your work piece, the surface finish getting shitty
[18:20:58] <_methods> ded
[18:21:07] <_methods> bue=bad
[18:21:14] <zeeshan> when you increase the feed rate
[18:21:15] <zeeshan> it disspears
[18:21:37] <zeeshan> i wish we tried a different insert
[18:21:42] <zeeshan> sadly it was only one type of insert
[18:21:45] <_methods> were you guys runnin with or without coolant
[18:21:49] <zeeshan> without
[18:21:54] <toastyde2th> the biggest factor for surface finish is edge sharpness
[18:21:55] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRuSYQ5Npek
[18:22:11] <toastyde2th> followed closely by nose radius
[18:22:14] <zeeshan> at 0.006
[18:22:16] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZh6WGR16q0
[18:22:18] <zeeshan> 0.06
[18:22:22] <zeeshan> you can se the built up edge forming
[18:22:40] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: you're right its dependent on edge sharpness
[18:22:44] <zeeshan> but look at the video MrHindsight posted
[18:22:56] <zeeshan> the edge sharpness changes cause of that built up edge
[18:22:59] <toastyde2th> yep
[18:23:12] <zeeshan> MrHindsight: the hell man
[18:23:14] <toastyde2th> it's been well known for quite some time
[18:23:17] <zeeshan> our videos were much shittier quality
[18:23:45] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: but its so much nicer seeing it on your own :P
[18:23:56] <zeeshan> makes me appreciate it more
[18:24:06] <_methods> practial knowledge is always better
[18:24:20] <zeeshan> there is a prof at school whos got a crazy model
[18:24:25] <zeeshan> that predicts built up edge
[18:24:33] <toastyde2th> though it looks like a function of stagnation pressure
[18:24:39] <zeeshan> based on material & tool properties and cutting parameters
[18:24:40] <toastyde2th> at least on that tool
[18:25:37] <MrHindsight> SS @ 5:00
[18:26:22] <zeeshan> poor nose
[18:26:23] <_methods> who gave you guys the inserts?
[18:26:24] <zeeshan> seeing so much abuse
[18:26:32] <zeeshan> _methods: sandvik inserts
[18:26:41] <_methods> ah the good stuff
[18:27:02] <_methods> did you say tnmg?
[18:27:07] <zeeshan> yes
[18:27:09] <_methods> 432
[18:27:11] <toastyde2th> when you look at this data using even larger machines, the curves get weirder
[18:27:25] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TfNouJbJrg
[18:27:28] <toastyde2th> it lead to the development of 500 hp roll lathes
[18:27:32] <_methods> sorry on laptop i couldn't look at your data
[18:27:36] <_methods> what grade
[18:27:40] <toastyde2th> because of the efficiency of using huge feed rates
[18:27:44] <zeeshan> not sure _methods =/
[18:27:47] <zeeshan> it was 3 years ago
[18:27:48] <_methods> oh
[18:28:11] <zeeshan> its an interesting field
[18:28:20] <zeeshan> theres people constantly trying to develop models
[18:28:20] <_methods> $$$$
[18:28:26] <_methods> lots of money
[18:28:29] <zeeshan> cause a lot of companies need ways to predict
[18:28:49] <zeeshan> like right now a lot of places just underuse their inserts
[18:28:50] <_methods> cool engineering field
[18:28:54] <zeeshan> instead of gettting scrap parts
[18:28:58] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD8txWpcoQM
[18:29:07] <zeeshan> that can get expensive really fast with cbn inserts
[18:29:26] <_methods> better than scrappin part and tool holder
[18:29:34] <_methods> wiping a table full of fixtures
[18:29:46] <zeeshan> sometimes the part is worth quite a bit too
[18:29:48] <_methods> or all the tooling behind it
[18:29:57] <zeeshan> it's already undergone a hundred different operations =/
[18:30:02] <_methods> yep
[18:30:12] <zeeshan> oh well
[18:30:18] <zeeshan> im sure metal forming is just as interesting :D
[18:30:27] <toastyde2th> if i can throw away 30 parts and not get fired, i'll tune the machine to really haul ass
[18:30:36] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: haha
[18:30:39] <toastyde2th> but if I have a $125k part on the table, I am going to go very slowly
[18:30:45] <_methods> heheh
[18:30:47] <_methods> yep
[18:30:55] <zeeshan> dude, we saw this study on cbn inserts
[18:30:59] <zeeshan> they were destroying parts and inserts
[18:31:05] <zeeshan> they actually had to speed up the feed rate!
[18:31:13] <toastyde2th> i was going to say, cbn doesn't like running cold
[18:31:16] <zeeshan> to overcome the vibrations caused by the chip breaking
[18:31:22] <zeeshan> i didnt know that at all
[18:31:36] <_methods> yeah haha i'll never forget the first time i ran an 880 corodrill
[18:31:36] <toastyde2th> lots of problems get caused by people running too slow
[18:31:39] <zeeshan> the company had to change machines, cause the current one couldnt handle it
[18:31:48] <_methods> i did the calculations and figured there was no way i should run that fast
[18:31:57] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYc9Nrqokx8 The Art of Chip Formation
[18:31:59] <_methods> so i ran it like regular drill feed rate lol
[18:32:03] <zeeshan> jhahaha
[18:32:05] <zeeshan> did you break it? :P
[18:32:06] <_methods> it broke as soon as it hit the part
[18:32:10] <zeeshan> hahah
[18:32:24] <_methods> $300 out the window
[18:32:34] <toastyde2th> lol
[18:32:37] <_methods> owner forgave me once i got it runnin
[18:32:48] <_methods> and he saw me shootin through 2" steel in like 1 sec
[18:32:57] <toastyde2th> tbh i wouldn't want either of those taps on my machine
[18:32:59] <_methods> 1" diameter hole lol
[18:33:17] <zeeshan> spiral taps look so easy to break :P
[18:33:19] <toastyde2th> i like forming taps if i'm not on a manual machine or an old ass cnc
[18:33:28] <_methods> ^^
[18:33:31] <_methods> only way to go
[18:33:40] <_methods> unless your doing foodgrade or medical
[18:33:41] <zeeshan> you can use forming taps on mild steel?
[18:33:43] <zeeshan> or stainless?
[18:33:45] <toastyde2th> yup
[18:33:49] <zeeshan> didnt know that
[18:33:50] <toastyde2th> never had a problem
[18:33:53] <_methods> taps last forever
[18:33:58] <toastyde2th> can go fast as balls, too
[18:34:11] <toastyde2th> i'd just set the machine to whatever the fastest rpm was and let the spindle accel/decel at its limits
[18:34:12] <zeeshan> how much is a 1/4"-20 forming tap typically
[18:34:16] <zeeshan> more or less than regular tap
[18:34:21] <toastyde2th> no idea, i didn't do any of our tool purchases
[18:34:22] <_methods> heheh just gotta remember not to use regular tapdrill size lol
[18:34:26] <zeeshan> ah
[18:34:32] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: you should send me your 'used tooling'
[18:34:33] <zeeshan> :D
[18:34:35] <_methods> depends on the tap
[18:34:41] <toastyde2th> lol, we had all our shit sent out and reground
[18:34:59] <zeeshan> i cried yesterday
[18:35:05] <zeeshan> i destroyed a carbide end mill 2 flute
[18:35:11] <toastyde2th> ?
[18:35:18] <zeeshan> to deep of a cut
[18:35:25] <toastyde2th> ah
[18:35:26] <zeeshan> and stupid bridgeport clone isn't rigid enough
[18:35:34] <zeeshan> so the tool flexed and shattered instantly
[18:35:44] <toastyde2th> depth in general is not good
[18:35:56] <toastyde2th> on a mill, anyway
[18:35:59] <zeeshan> it was the first time i've cut hardened steel =/
[18:36:05] <toastyde2th> ouch
[18:36:10] <zeeshan> for some reason, i couldnt take more than 20 thou depth of cuts
[18:36:15] <zeeshan> i really thought it could handle more
[18:36:18] <toastyde2th> and yeah, i try to never use carbide on bridgeports
[18:36:23] <zeeshan> i tried 100 thou cause i was impatient
[18:36:30] <_methods> aluminum?
[18:36:30] <zeeshan> and bam
[18:36:36] <zeeshan> no hardened steel
[18:36:42] <_methods> why 2flute?
[18:36:43] <toastyde2th> what feed per tooth
[18:36:50] <_methods> wtf
[18:36:51] <zeeshan> no idea
[18:36:52] <toastyde2th> and yeah, 2 flute was probably not the right choice
[18:36:53] <zeeshan> hand feed
[18:36:53] <zeeshan> haha
[18:36:56] <toastyde2th> okay, yeah
[18:36:59] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQIkHaP88oQ for secret messages on rice
[18:37:02] <toastyde2th> never ever hand feed carbide tools
[18:37:04] <_methods> 2fl alum
[18:37:10] <_methods> 2-3flute
[18:37:16] <toastyde2th> they are super sensitive to chatter
[18:37:22] <zeeshan> so once i cnc it
[18:37:27] <zeeshan> you think i can run it without shattering?
[18:37:29] <toastyde2th> and knee mills tend to buck when they first engage
[18:37:31] <toastyde2th> yeah, probably
[18:37:42] <toastyde2th> what diameter tool?
[18:37:44] <_methods> don't climb mill either on manual
[18:37:47] <zeeshan> 3/8
[18:37:49] <toastyde2th> hm
[18:38:06] <toastyde2th> so the other problem is work hardening, which is a bigger problem on knee-mill type manual machines
[18:38:10] <zeeshan> i mean they say you can do 1/2 the tool diameter in depth
[18:38:10] <zeeshan> right?
[18:38:13] <toastyde2th> if your feed drops too low
[18:38:16] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIHf9xT3y2w Milling Aluminum, high speed (10 380 fps)
[18:38:31] <toastyde2th> the tooth will hit the work hard zone from the last tooth
[18:38:33] <toastyde2th> and shatter
[18:38:43] <_methods> .100" on hardened steel 2fl is asking for explosion
[18:38:48] <toastyde2th> ya
[18:38:50] <zeeshan> well there was an explosion
[18:38:50] <zeeshan> haha
[18:39:03] <zeeshan> it's okay, im just experimenting
[18:39:05] <toastyde2th> tbh i'd buy the biggest, 4+ flute bit I could
[18:39:05] <zeeshan> getting to know the machine
[18:39:19] <zeeshan> why?
[18:39:21] <zeeshan> just because its rigid?
[18:39:21] <_methods> yeah that wasn't the machines fault lol
[18:39:27] <toastyde2th> 3/8 in carbide on a knee mill on hard steel is really, really asking a lot
[18:39:36] <zeeshan> you know whats weird?
[18:39:42] <zeeshan> i was traming the mill
[18:39:48] <zeeshan> after it was all done
[18:39:50] <toastyde2th> the tool's super rigid, yes
[18:40:05] <zeeshan> i tried to hang off the head of the mill and
[18:40:10] <toastyde2th> remember that for every 1/4 you increase in diameter, you double the rigidity
[18:40:12] <zeeshan> i registered a 0.0005" deflection of the head
[18:40:14] <zeeshan> is that normal?
[18:40:17] <zeeshan> im about 135 lb
[18:40:18] <toastyde2th> yup
[18:40:24] <toastyde2th> i'm surprised it wasn't more
[18:40:38] <zeeshan> where is that flex coming from
[18:40:43] <toastyde2th> the machine itself
[18:40:46] <toastyde2th> the castings
[18:40:53] <_methods> hahah wow i've never eventhought to try that
[18:41:03] <toastyde2th> remember you have a 5'-7' path between where you're hanging from, and the ground
[18:41:06] <_methods> i'm sure someoen in the shop would slap the shit out of me
[18:41:16] <zeeshan> _methods: rofl
[18:41:19] <zeeshan> just be like 'im testing'
[18:41:19] <toastyde2th> it really isn't an issue because rough cuts don't matter
[18:41:23] <zeeshan> 'getting personal with the mill'
[18:41:32] <toastyde2th> and when you take a finish pass, the cutting forces are so light it REALLY doesn't matter
[18:41:36] <_methods> my luck it would fall over on my fat ass
[18:41:46] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: but when youre using carbide tooling, ive heard even 1 thou of deflection can destroy the tool?
[18:41:47] <toastyde2th> plus the ways themselves on a bp clone aren't straight
[18:41:51] <toastyde2th> nope, lies
[18:42:06] <toastyde2th> carbide is sensitive to shock and is brittle
[18:42:13] <toastyde2th> the MACHINE can flex all it wants
[18:42:18] <toastyde2th> but if you ask the TOOL to flex, it goes bye bye
[18:42:23] <zeeshan> gotcha
[18:42:26] <zeeshan> that makes sense
[18:42:29] <toastyde2th> also any shock load (chatter) will blow the tool up
[18:42:35] <zeeshan> so thats why you're saying use a big cutter.
[18:42:40] <toastyde2th> partly, yes
[18:42:44] <toastyde2th> it's the major reason
[18:42:44] <zeeshan> and if i use something smaller
[18:42:47] <zeeshan> i just take it slowly
[18:42:52] <_methods> always use the shortest cutter you can too
[18:42:55] <Connor> runout can kill a carbide bit..
[18:42:55] <toastyde2th> remember to keep the feed high
[18:43:13] <toastyde2th> the feed defeats problems related to runout (as connor points out) and also defeats work hardening
[18:43:31] <zeeshan> i dont measure any spindle runout on the tenths indicator
[18:43:32] <toastyde2th> it has the secondary effect of requiring LESS horsepower per volume of material removed
[18:43:40] <zeeshan> so im pretty sure runout didnt do it
[18:43:49] <zeeshan> so its 1. the size of the end mill. 2. inconsistent feed
[18:43:53] <toastyde2th> so whenever I have problems, I slow the machine down real far
[18:43:53] <zeeshan> 3. too much doc
[18:44:01] <toastyde2th> and go hard on the feed
[18:44:05] <_methods> were you climb millin or conventional milling?
[18:44:09] <zeeshan> conventional
[18:44:12] <_methods> k
[18:44:19] <zeeshan> i aint climb milling on my 60 thou back lash acme lead screws !
[18:44:24] <zeeshan> that'll snap a hss tool bit
[18:44:25] <zeeshan> haha
[18:44:25] <toastyde2th> if you are slotting, you are also fucked
[18:44:27] <_methods> yeah that's bad
[18:44:41] <zeeshan> for some reason the X is really bad
[18:44:42] <zeeshan> 60.
[18:44:43] <toastyde2th> get an hss bit if you are trying to slot
[18:44:54] <zeeshan> y is 12 thou, z is 10 thou
[18:45:05] <zeeshan> well the main reason i was using carbide for that hardened steel
[18:45:06] <toastyde2th> x sees most of the use, and is more likely to wear a lot
[18:45:10] <zeeshan> is i wanted the hardness of the tool to actually cut it
[18:45:18] <zeeshan> i tried m42 end mill
[18:45:22] <zeeshan> and it was having a hard time cutting it
[18:45:26] <toastyde2th> ah
[18:45:41] <zeeshan> you could ssee the edges just rolling up
[18:45:43] <toastyde2th> if you HAVE to slot, use a centercutting 2 flute and drill
[18:45:44] <zeeshan> instead of seeing a chip
[18:45:58] <toastyde2th> and THEN clean it up with milling
[18:46:00] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLJyN7dVcgA 2.000 fps milling
[18:46:38] <MrHindsight> some plastic
[18:47:38] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaDfX3_uepc RampMill running in 1018 steel at 9600RPM and moving at over 200IPM.
[18:47:48] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: what do you think about running a 7/8 end mill on a bridgeport clone
[18:47:52] <zeeshan> thats the biggest collet i have
[18:47:56] <toastyde2th> fantastic
[18:48:12] <zeeshan> i hear those 1" end mill holders are bad idea
[18:48:14] <zeeshan> cause they have runout
[18:48:15] <toastyde2th> pretty much every time I use a mill in a BP clone if i have free reign it's either a facemill or a 7/8 endmill
[18:48:25] <MrHindsight> they make 1" and 1 1/4" adapters :)
[18:48:26] <toastyde2th> ya, those are generally reserved for big roughing endmills
[18:48:29] <toastyde2th> in HSS
[18:48:42] <zeeshan> MrHindsight: those seem scary
[18:48:50] <zeeshan> =P
[18:48:54] <toastyde2th> but also, if you can keep the feed per tooth up a little runout won't matter
[18:49:01] <toastyde2th> if i feed at .010 per tooth
[18:49:10] <toastyde2th> and i have really bad runout, like .002
[18:49:18] <toastyde2th> that's .008 on one side and .012 on the other
[18:49:21] <toastyde2th> and I don't care
[18:49:32] <zeeshan> thats with HSS only though right?
[18:49:39] <toastyde2th> nope, even a big carbide bit will handle that
[18:49:42] <toastyde2th> it's constantly engaged
[18:49:46] <zeeshan> ahh
[18:49:54] <zeeshan> its when it gets interrupted
[18:49:57] <zeeshan> thats when it complains
[18:49:58] <toastyde2th> the problem comes when one side is almost coming out of the material or is interrupted
[18:49:59] <toastyde2th> yep
[18:50:07] <toastyde2th> work hardening or interrupted cut
[18:50:18] <toastyde2th> most people reach for the spindle rpm first when they want to go faster
[18:50:21] <toastyde2th> this is a bad move
[18:50:37] <toastyde2th> if the machine's got more in her, go for more feed and only bump the spindle as necessary
[18:50:43] <MrHindsight> END MILLS - Coarse Pitch Super Slow Motion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GcEvzpHyt4
[18:50:55] <zeeshan> all the charts online are pretty strict on recommended sfm
[18:51:03] <toastyde2th> that's top speed, not recommended speed
[18:51:04] <zeeshan> but the feed is open to debate
[18:51:18] <toastyde2th> aluminum will cut at 100 sfm
[18:51:23] <zeeshan> 1000sfm!
[18:51:24] <zeeshan> :D
[18:51:27] <toastyde2th> it will also cut at 10000 sfm
[18:51:53] <toastyde2th> I'd rather get to the machine's maximum horsepower feed-first rather than spindle-first
[18:52:05] <toastyde2th> because a lot of energy is wasted in having too many shear planes per inch
[18:52:10] <zeeshan> i got a 3hp motor on this baby
[18:52:10] <toastyde2th> as well as material heating
[18:52:30] <zeeshan> i drilled a 1" hole through 1.75" mild steel no problem
[18:52:36] <zeeshan> .375 predrilled hole
[18:52:50] <zeeshan> toastyde2th: last q for the day
[18:52:57] <zeeshan> what's the largest drill size you'd recommend on a bridgeport
[18:53:01] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7iW_ojYmrY drilling slow mo
[18:53:03] <zeeshan> before the r8 slips
[18:53:07] <toastyde2th> hm
[18:53:25] <toastyde2th> that's a nasty question, because it really does matter on what you're cutting
[18:53:30] <zeeshan> mild steel
[18:53:31] <toastyde2th> i've used a 3" drill on a bp before but i didn't like it
[18:53:35] <zeeshan> haha
[18:53:38] <zeeshan> thats huge.
[18:53:48] <toastyde2th> yeah, i was not a big fan
[18:53:53] <zeeshan> i wanna be able to drill 1.5" max
[18:54:03] <toastyde2th> honestly if the question "how big can i go" comes up
[18:54:08] <toastyde2th> it's time to stop drilling and break out a boring bar
[18:54:13] <zeeshan> yea
[18:54:20] <zeeshan> thats what i ended up doing the otehr day for the ball nut
[18:54:22] <zeeshan> bracket
[18:54:26] <toastyde2th> in one shot, no predrill? an inch is really pushing it
[18:54:28] <zeeshan> 1" hjole then 1.575" by boring bar
[18:54:29] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GgPW7befGs look at this cutter in a BP
[18:55:00] <zeeshan> looks like a massive fly cutter?
[18:55:04] <toastyde2th> yup
[18:55:12] <MrHindsight> with lots of mass
[18:55:22] <zeeshan> honestly, that does leave a nice finish
[18:55:29] <zeeshan> but that finish isn't good enough for most modern headagaskets
[18:55:33] <MrHindsight> maybe better called a flywheel cutter :)
[18:55:37] <zeeshan> (multilayer metal)
[18:55:42] <zeeshan> you gotta grind those babies
[18:55:59] <toastyde2th> i wouldn't cut a head on a bp
[18:56:05] <zeeshan> why not
[18:56:05] <zeeshan> haha
[18:56:16] <toastyde2th> leaves a crappy finish, isn't very flat
[18:56:36] <toastyde2th> I've surfaced shit on a mill with a monocrystalline diamond insert to .0002 over like 18"x6"
[18:56:41] <toastyde2th> very nice finish
[18:56:42] <MrHindsight> you want a little bite
[18:56:51] <toastyde2th> but it was also a very nice mill
[18:57:20] <toastyde2th> also bbl.
[19:06:51] <Tom_itx> they've got that FSWizzare Feed app for android
[19:06:56] <Tom_itx> pretty cool
[19:07:02] <Tom_itx> free and paid versions
[19:09:30] <Tom_itx> or apple
[19:09:43] <Tom_itx> https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=741521897&mt=8hone.....
[19:10:34] <Tom_itx> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=fswizzard&c=apps
[19:10:53] <Tom_itx> not sure what pro does over lite
[19:11:27] <PetefromTn_> I use it here.
[19:11:35] <Tom_itx> pro?
[19:11:41] <PetefromTn_> nah not yet.
[19:11:44] <Connor> I never could figure out the diff between pro and lite..
[19:11:55] <PetefromTn_> more materials selection.
[19:11:59] <PetefromTn_> apparently.
[19:12:34] <PetefromTn_> it does seem to work well and jibes with what the guys in the shop come up with consistently.
[19:12:38] <Tom_itx> $18.90 difference
[19:16:47] <XXCoder> drat
[19:16:58] <XXCoder> someone dinged me but it scrolled past limit
[19:18:12] <malcom2073> [13:01:39] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: its so hot at your place and dry like desert ? Cnn acording california at firer state
[19:18:19] <malcom2073> 7 hours ago
[19:18:24] <XXCoder> thanks
[19:18:42] <XXCoder> wrong part of usa heh but definitely hot
[19:24:56] <MrHindsight> cold and rain here, but anything beats -15C and snow
[19:25:39] <Tom_itx> MrHindsight, i forgot what part of the world you were in
[19:25:56] <MrHindsight> windy city
[19:26:14] <Tom_itx> well! that's wichita for sure :)
[19:39:30] <ChuangTzu> yeah
[19:39:48] <ChuangTzu> i bike 15 miles every week day
[19:39:48] <XXCoder> where even wind has wind? ;)
[19:39:50] <ChuangTzu> rain or shine
[19:39:55] <ChuangTzu> and it's always a headwind
[19:40:16] <XXCoder> like uphill both ways? ;)
[19:45:54] <ChuangTzu> kinda
[19:45:58] <ChuangTzu> except this is actually possible
[19:46:14] <XXCoder> loop other way then :D
[19:46:14] <ChuangTzu> the wind switches directions in the middle of the day when i'm at work
[19:46:23] <ChuangTzu> :)
[19:46:52] <XXCoder> I used to have job I walked half a block to
[19:47:02] <XXCoder> but I screwed up. I wasnt reay for workl
[19:47:07] <XXCoder> ready to work
[19:47:27] <XXCoder> its been long time ago. dawn of internet and aol days
[20:07:26] <humble_sea_bass> when i was in college id bike from brooklyn to harlem, somethingf like 16 miles total each way, everything was fine until I reached harlem where the hills are craaaazy steep and at that point I'd just walk up the last 4 avenues up because a single speed bike couldnt do it
[20:08:36] <XXCoder> heh humble
[20:08:54] <XXCoder> reminds nme of one bike day hell day for me
[20:09:04] <XXCoder> I was going to end of one road (25 mile trip)
[20:09:22] <XXCoder> I arrived the end, but it was getting late, so I start heading back
[20:09:38] <XXCoder> well at mile 10 on return trip (or 35 miles total that point)
[20:09:39] <MrHindsight> you had bicycles with wheels, when we were in school .....
[20:09:52] <XXCoder> theres a nice park. with lots water areas/.
[20:10:01] <XXCoder> well know what comes out when its getting dim?
[20:10:08] <XXCoder> mostitoes. lots of em
[20:10:39] <humble_sea_bass> if you're shredding on your bike they don't have time to catch you
[20:10:59] <XXCoder> I couldnt slow down or they'd come on me. I had to use hat constantly while going max speed. I'm very good long bicycler but I am very weak on power
[20:11:14] <XXCoder> so after 2 miles I finally arrived city and away from water
[20:11:28] <XXCoder> I couldnt go on, there qwas 12 more miles or so lol
[20:11:30] <humble_sea_bass> the first day back to work after hurricane sandy
[20:11:36] <XXCoder> I ran out of energy
[20:12:23] <humble_sea_bass> there were no subways so my wife and I took a tandem bike into manhattan, all told that day we logged 40 miles going to our respective offices and back home
[20:12:43] <humble_sea_bass> also most of manhattan was dark dark dark
[20:14:50] <XXCoder> bet that was kinda spooky
[20:15:50] <humble_sea_bass> it was really cool except for the few cab drivers you had to be uncivil to
[20:16:29] <humble_sea_bass> the best was crossing the manhattan bridge back, it was completely dark over the river, all you saw were the other blinky bike lights
[20:16:41] <XXCoder> wow
[20:16:51] <humble_sea_bass> then you reached the apex and go into brooklyns power grid, and everything was normal
[20:16:59] <humble_sea_bass> lights on and everything
[20:18:08] <zeeshan> jdh you there?
[20:18:12] <zeeshan> jdh jdh jdh jdh jdh
[20:18:12] <zeeshan> :D
[20:18:17] <humble_sea_bass> http://jclemon.com/blog/2012/11/exploring-powerless-manhattan/
[20:19:09] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/nYImuUm.jpg
[20:19:14] <zeeshan> i can't modify those 2 holes
[20:19:17] <zeeshan> nor can i modify the slot
[20:19:19] <zeeshan> im SOL
[20:19:32] <zeeshan> i measured it properly, i need .175" of clearance.
[20:19:46] <XXCoder> any alternative design?
[20:19:53] <zeeshan> removing th eball screw theads will only remove 0.080 thou
[20:19:59] <zeeshan> and if i remove the remaining amnount from the 2 holes
[20:20:14] <zeeshan> ill only have .100 of meat left there which is too thin
[20:20:17] <zeeshan> XXCoder: i thinkso
[20:20:27] * Jymmm counts 7 holes
[20:20:46] <XXCoder> humble awesome link
[20:20:56] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/nw7kPgh.jpg
[20:21:01] <zeeshan> Jymmm: sorry the 2 holes im talking about
[20:21:05] <zeeshan> are where the ball screw passes through
[20:21:14] <Jymmm> ah
[20:21:19] <zeeshan> im thinknig of buying a 7" longer ball screw
[20:21:27] <XXCoder> man I missed cectic when it was active webcomic. http://www.cectic.com/035/
[20:21:29] <zeeshan> and extending the whole cross slide 7"
[20:21:34] <zeeshan> that way the ball nut sticks out
[20:21:43] <XXCoder> is that expenive
[20:21:52] <zeeshan> the ball screw?
[20:22:00] <zeeshan> like 100 bux
[20:22:30] <Jymmm> zeeshan: What if...
[20:22:40] <Jymmm> You added an extender block..
[20:22:47] <zeeshan> where?
[20:23:09] <Jymmm> Bolt the block to the slide, then make the holes you need in the ext bloack
[20:23:39] <Jymmm> It won't give you the added length you want, but you won't have to fuck around trying to find 200thou either
[20:23:40] <zeeshan> problem is
[20:23:48] <zeeshan> the ball nut is touching the bottom of the slot it rides in
[20:23:52] <zeeshan> there is a .175" interference
[20:24:17] <Jymmm> grind the bitch down?
[20:24:25] <zeeshan> cant
[20:24:36] <zeeshan> if i remove more material from the bottom of the slot
[20:24:44] <zeeshan> ill expose one of the v-ways the block rids on
[20:24:45] <zeeshan> *rides
[20:24:50] <Jymmm> No no not the slot, the ballnut mount
[20:24:53] <zeeshan> ohh
[20:24:56] <zeeshan> i've grinded it down
[20:24:59] <zeeshan> as much as i can hehe
[20:25:07] <Tom_itx> ground
[20:25:23] <zeeshan> poor english is nice
[20:25:24] <zeeshan> :P
[20:25:36] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Well, stock up on lube then, cause you're fucked! Thank you and have a nice day =)
[20:25:42] <zeeshan> hahaha
[20:26:02] <Jymmm> ;)
[20:26:16] <zeeshan> im drawing up an alternative
[20:26:21] <zeeshan> critiqueit!
[20:26:43] <Jymmm> you need that green bar in the middle?
[20:27:08] <zeeshan> yea
[20:27:12] <zeeshan> its a reinforcement bar
[20:27:18] <Jymmm> so?
[20:27:34] <zeeshan> so the triangular part of the ways don't flex under load
[20:27:57] <Jymmm> Fine..............
[20:28:00] <zeeshan> haha
[20:28:01] <jp_mill> pcw_home: around?
[20:28:03] <Jymmm> *rolls eyes*
[20:29:32] <Jymmm> zeeshan: how much space is under the leadscrew?
[20:30:02] <XXCoder> fast dilio http://interestingengineering.com/meet-the-worlds-fastest-bike/
[20:30:08] <zeeshan> .236"
[20:31:55] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Sorry man, I'm all out of ideas
[20:32:01] <zeeshan> hehe
[20:32:30] <Jymmm> buy a new lathe?
[20:32:39] <XXCoder> reprap
[20:32:46] <zeeshan> hahahah
[20:32:47] <zeeshan> you guys
[20:32:47] <zeeshan> :P
[20:33:16] <Jymmm> XXCoder: who the hell needs another glue gun, I have three already, thanks
[20:33:22] <XXCoder> lol
[20:38:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/49L8ZC5.png
[20:38:09] <zeeshan> this is what im thinking of doing
[20:38:17] <zeeshan> mounting the ball nut at the end of the cross-slide
[20:38:20] <zeeshan> and just extending the screw
[20:38:37] <XXCoder> man I need to learn sketchup more.
[20:41:56] <XXCoder> https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10259841_10152340582157808_5700303836819360217_n.jpg
[20:42:02] <XXCoder> one is getting bit blue.
[20:42:04] <zeeshan> hahahahahahha
[20:42:19] <XXCoder> ribbed for pleasure too
[20:42:27] <zeeshan> shes a freaky one
[21:25:27] <skunkworks_> my should know better cousin has fallen for this http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/30/free-energy-live-in-action-this-is-breathtaking-as-science-is-being-re-written/
[21:25:49] <skunkworks_> I guess if you through quantum into the name...
[21:26:24] <XXCoder> quantium reprap
[21:26:30] <XXCoder> kickstart it
[21:26:31] <ChuangTzu> lol
[21:26:45] <ChuangTzu> collective-evolution.com
[21:26:46] <ChuangTzu> lol
[21:27:35] <XXCoder> if it REALLY works, it's because there is as previously undiscovered source of energy. not because it makes energy out of ass
[21:27:36] <skunkworks_> you just have to tune it.....
[21:29:01] <pcw_home> depressing...
[21:33:03] <skunkworks_> the time wasted...
[21:39:29] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: PT Barnum Lives
[21:40:31] <XXCoder> where is shaun? I pee-reviewed this. http://www.cectic.com/184/
[21:40:48] <ChuangTzu> pee-reviewed?
[21:40:51] <ChuangTzu> you peed on it?
[21:40:59] <XXCoder> click link lol
[21:42:46] <Jymmm> Whats the proof that perpetual motion/energy isn't possible?
[21:43:31] <Jymmm> (seriously)
[21:45:25] <jp_mill> pcw_home: got the axis working but had to bypass the motor encoder.
[21:45:58] <pcw_home> strange
[21:46:18] <jp_mill> by bypass i mean add a second encode
[21:46:31] <XXCoder> Jymmm: physics
[21:46:53] <Jymmm> XXCoder: More specifically
[21:46:54] <XXCoder> you cant make or destroy energy
[21:47:10] <jp_mill> i had the same operation regardless if i took the encoder counts from the drive or straight from the botor
[21:47:18] <XXCoder> if your machine works, its tapping something new to science, but it is NOT "postive energy" machine.
[21:47:48] <Jymmm> XXCoder: E=mc^2 kinda says otherwise
[21:48:02] <XXCoder> so far, its impossible. Oil was postive energy till we understood it more.
[21:48:20] <XXCoder> uhh it just says energy equals to mass lightspeed squared
[21:48:29] <XXCoder> it states that mass is energy basically
[21:48:32] <Jymmm> XXCoder: If I stretch a spring, it will weight more. because it is storing energy.
[21:49:00] <XXCoder> exactly. but it is NOT making new energy or mass
[21:49:17] <XXCoder> you spent energy stretching it, its now expressed as mass
[21:49:18] <skunkworks_> that is what fission and fusion is for...
[21:49:23] <Jymmm> XXCoder: So, if mass is porpotional to energy in some aspects, why can't a "trnsfer one energy into another?
[21:49:44] <XXCoder> Jymmm: yes. but all claims of postive energy machines has always been bunk
[21:49:47] <Jymmm> or mass to energy and back
[21:50:05] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I'm not talking about snakeoil
[21:50:21] <XXCoder> well problem
[21:50:26] <XXCoder> there is ALWAYS losses
[21:50:32] <XXCoder> heat, vibration, so on
[21:50:39] <XXCoder> if you heard it run its losing energy
[21:51:10] <XXCoder> there is no zero sum running machine. its always negative unless running off stored energy in form of batteries, solar, or oil
[21:51:10] <humble_sea_bass> Jymmm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics#Laws_of_thermodynamics
[21:51:24] <Jymmm> no, not loss, remember you just said that make or destory energy =)
[21:51:37] <XXCoder> Jymmm: uhh did you read?
[21:51:59] <Jymmm> humble_sea_bass: We don't need no stinkin badges
[21:52:01] <XXCoder> I said if you heard it run its losing energy because its converting energy to noise/vibration
[21:52:14] <XXCoder> zero loss in overall energy
[21:52:36] <XXCoder> zero gain too. but you cant keep all energy from machine back into it.
[21:52:45] <Jymmm> XXCoder: You are just saing what everyone else has always said, but it still does prove anything.
[21:52:49] <XXCoder> otherwise you'd be able to make windup that can wind it up
[21:53:27] <Jymmm> you are looking at this far too practical a perspective.
[21:53:35] <humble_sea_bass> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle
[21:53:47] <XXCoder> even useless zero sum machines is impossible
[21:53:55] <humble_sea_bass> that's your best case scenario
[21:54:02] <XXCoder> because theres no such thing as no friction
[21:54:19] <Jymmm> light in a vacuum
[21:54:50] <Jymmm> where the friction there?
[21:55:03] <XXCoder> well light isnt losing any energy either and its not a machine
[21:55:18] <Jymmm> light IS energy, wheres the friction you speak of?
[21:55:39] <jdh> where is this vacuum
[21:55:52] <skunkworks_> what have I done....
[21:55:59] <XXCoder> well youre moving to area not even applicable to orginial debate of machines that run forever
[21:56:02] <Jymmm> jdh: househols appliance isle
[21:56:04] <XXCoder> so I'll stop here
[21:56:26] <humble_sea_bass> Jymmm: vacuum = absense of particles and mass and shit.
[21:56:46] <XXCoder> aka shaun's skull spaxe
[21:56:48] <XXCoder> space
[21:56:48] <Jymmm> humble_sea_bass: dumb blonde?
[21:56:52] <humble_sea_bass> even in a vacuum you are subject to gravitational forces
[21:57:09] <XXCoder> yeah. light is very strange thing.
[21:57:10] <Jymmm> humble_sea_bass: and gravity is energy
[21:57:11] <pcw_home> my vacuum is full of particles and shit
[21:57:13] <humble_sea_bass> and inconvenient things like the inverse square rule for unfocused light
[21:57:40] <pcw_home> (if you have rabbits thats a given)
[21:57:46] <humble_sea_bass> unless you can make a gravity engine that makes up become down
[21:57:51] <humble_sea_bass> then whatevers
[21:57:59] <XXCoder> humble light speed is light speed. even if youre traveling at 99.99999% light speed, you turn on flashlight, photons will leave it at light speed.
[21:58:23] <humble_sea_bass> light isn't that strange
[21:58:26] <Jymmm> humble_sea_bass: You sy gravity, but if the universe is expanding as they say it is, that would mean it's mass is storing enrgy just like that spring.
[21:58:50] <Jymmm> If so, where's is THAT enrgy coming from?
[21:59:17] <XXCoder> Jymmm: well thats where sciencists is still figuring. dark energy maybe
[21:59:37] <humble_sea_bass> its in the system, but you need differential potentials to do anything
[22:00:11] <Jymmm> Maybe it's from all those "apparently" perpetual motion machines really are working, just not as we expect them to be?
[22:00:28] <humble_sea_bass> no no no, in our time scale
[22:00:30] <Jymmm> s/motion/motin|energy/
[22:00:35] <humble_sea_bass> we see perpetual motion
[22:00:37] <XXCoder> lol assuming those machines is NOT scam
[22:00:58] <Jymmm> humble_sea_bass: Fuck our time scale, Ours is but the 4th dimension, what about all the other dimensions?
[22:01:10] <XXCoder> time is not 4th dimension
[22:01:12] <humble_sea_bass> that's like saying that the earth is not slowing down
[22:01:21] <XXCoder> thats why we say we live in 3d + 1 universe
[22:01:39] * Jymmm checks... Nope I don't see any earth skid marks... prove it's slowing down =)
[22:01:52] <humble_sea_bass> I'm sensing some shawn level trolling here. I'm gonna grab my bong and chill out
[22:02:17] <humble_sea_bass> my jimmie get russled when we talk perpetual motion
[22:02:19] <XXCoder> tell moon to stop slowing earth down then lol
[22:02:37] <Jymmm> No, your just not getting what I'm saying is all.... your still thinking in a practical perspective.
[22:02:53] <humble_sea_bass> I believe in cycles
[22:02:54] <XXCoder> do youre saying my brain should be in more... gullable condition?
[22:02:57] <Jymmm> you need to see/touch/feel before something "exists"
[22:03:15] <humble_sea_bass> I need to rip this bong before something exists
[22:03:31] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass:
[22:03:31] <zeeshan> lol
[22:03:35] <zeeshan> i feel bad for u
[22:03:36] <zeeshan> :P
[22:03:47] <Jymmm> Just becaue "we" can't detect/measure something, doens't mean it doens't exist.
[22:03:57] <zeeshan> jdh: damn you respond to me !
[22:04:00] <humble_sea_bass> that's a different thing Jymmm
[22:04:05] <jdh> whuttup bitch
[22:04:09] <zeeshan> haha
[22:04:11] <XXCoder> jymmm no, I just need real valid proof before I have reasonable reason to think it to be true
[22:04:17] <zeeshan> dude i couldnt drill the hole
[22:04:19] <humble_sea_bass> zeeshan: why are you feeling bad
[22:04:22] <XXCoder> prevents me from falling into bullshit
[22:04:23] <zeeshan> or deepen t he slot
[22:04:39] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Like I said you need to touch/see/feel, again you what soemthign practical
[22:04:49] <XXCoder> exactly. glad we agree on this
[22:05:01] <jdh> take an angle grinder to your nuts?
[22:05:02] <Jymmm> XXCoder: That's also very narrow minded thinking
[22:05:05] <XXCoder> nah
[22:05:14] <Jymmm> Yeah, it really is.
[22:05:14] <XXCoder> less gullable thinking pattern
[22:05:21] <zeeshan> jdh, i figured out another way to do it
[22:05:25] <zeeshan> it's not as elegant..
[22:05:39] <XXCoder> zeeshan: if it works it works.,
[22:05:42] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I said not snakeoil already
[22:05:45] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/49L8ZC5.png
[22:05:47] <jdh> hang the ballnut off teh back of the cross?
[22:05:50] <zeeshan> cyea
[22:05:52] <zeeshan> lol
[22:05:56] <jdh> heh
[22:05:59] <zeeshan> and just use 1 bellow
[22:06:03] <zeeshan> and call it a day
[22:06:05] <XXCoder> I see it being offset and longer
[22:06:20] <zeeshan> putting it in front or back of the cross slide
[22:06:21] <XXCoder> what is real world conquences of being longer?
[22:06:23] <zeeshan> gets in the way of the tail stock
[22:06:25] <jdh> I'd try taht if mine were milled all teh way through
[22:06:25] <zeeshan> and spindle
[22:06:34] <zeeshan> jdh bust out the angle grinder
[22:06:37] <zeeshan> :PPP
[22:06:48] <jdh> that's why I haven't bothered wiring up my motor
[22:06:52] <Jymmm> XXCoder: It's the whole send a twin off into spae at the speed of light for "five minutes" thing.
[22:07:10] <zeeshan> jdh just cut the end piece off
[22:07:13] <zeeshan> it doesnt do much
[22:07:22] <zeeshan> actually, maybe it does in your case
[22:07:23] <jdh> not just the end. half way
[22:07:26] <zeeshan> you could always drill a hole in it?
[22:07:31] <zeeshan> on the drill press?
[22:07:33] <zeeshan> its just a clearance
[22:07:38] <jdh> mine is tiny
[22:07:56] <zeeshan> XXCoder: power my lathe with perpetual motion
[22:08:01] <zeeshan> i hate paying for electricity
[22:08:15] <XXCoder> lol use spidle spinning to move axles
[22:08:24] <XXCoder> and vibration to spin spidle
[22:08:31] <zeeshan> ill just get a horse
[22:08:35] <XXCoder> lol
[22:08:35] <zeeshan> on a tread mill
[22:08:37] <zeeshan> :D
[22:08:42] <humble_sea_bass> http://irclo.gr/i/145941/1398963600032.gif
[22:08:44] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Easy, just need a hole saw and a couple of 2dt jumpers =)
[22:08:51] <Jymmm> 2ft
[22:09:44] <zeeshan> gonna place another order for a ball screw
[22:09:48] <zeeshan> prolly take a month coming from china
[22:09:55] <zeeshan> actually nm, chai sends using fedex
[22:10:12] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/cEKrH7C.jpg
[22:10:15] <zeeshan> i organized my basement :D
[22:10:17] <zeeshan> kind of
[22:10:19] <jdh> he doesn't have 8mm screws
[22:10:24] <jdh> or I'd buy a new one
[22:10:25] <XXCoder> looks hella better
[22:10:38] <zeeshan> jdh that sux
[22:10:45] <zeeshan> you have 16mm ball screws?
[22:10:45] <zeeshan> or 12?
[22:10:55] <jdh> 12 for X.
[22:11:03] <zeeshan> im sure it can work
[22:11:04] <jdh> I'd use an 8 if I could find one
[22:11:05] <zeeshan> just overhang it
[22:11:12] <zeeshan> =P
[22:11:24] <zeeshan> you're so close to finishing it
[22:11:29] <Jymmm> zeeshan: You can't add an extension?
[22:11:37] <zeeshan> Jymmm: for what
[22:11:49] <Jymmm> what you are trying to do
[22:11:56] <zeeshan> yea im gonna extend it
[22:12:26] <Jymmm> oh, I thought you were buying a longer one
[22:12:34] <zeeshan> ohh
[22:12:38] <zeeshan> you mean extending the ball screw
[22:12:42] <zeeshan> hmm. i dont thinkso
[22:12:52] <Jymmm> the leadscrew yeah
[22:12:53] <zeeshan> the 700mm ball screw x 20mm diameter is like70$ shipped
[22:13:00] <zeeshan> its just annoying waiting for it
[22:13:10] <Jymmm> xmas kid
[22:18:57] <zeeshan> any of you guys collect porcelain signs? :p
[22:19:02] <zeeshan> i need to decorate the garage :P
[22:19:22] <XXCoder> send me million bucks and I might find a few for you
[22:19:27] <zeeshan> lol
[22:20:30] <zeeshan> damn theyre expensive
[22:20:35] <zeeshan> ill just put a buncha playboy girls up
[22:20:38] <zeeshan> cheaper
[22:20:39] <zeeshan> :p
[22:20:43] <XXCoder> lol
[22:21:05] <XXCoder> just get random machinit related ads and ut em up
[22:21:14] <XXCoder> makes you seem... professional? lol
[22:21:23] <jdh> I need a 12mm allen wrench.
[22:21:39] <jdh> I have like 10+sets of various types that all stop at 10mm
[22:21:41] * XXCoder passes jdh one via montior transport system
[22:21:42] <zeeshan> i has a few
[22:21:49] <zeeshan> yea the regular sets only go to 3/8 or 10mm
[22:22:02] <zeeshan> i got a buncha big ass allen keys from that old tool haul
[22:22:20] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/mZ4Ed59.jpg
[22:22:20] <zeeshan> :D
[22:22:43] <zeeshan> jdh since you love the angle grinder so much
[22:22:49] <zeeshan> why dont you make one?
[22:22:53] <zeeshan> :)
[22:23:11] <zeeshan> just need a 1/2" round bar
[22:23:19] <XXCoder> use lathe cnc make one
[22:23:20] <jdh> the guy at the bike store ruined his on my wheel. I don't think a ground one would do any better.
[22:23:34] <zeeshan> is it seized?
[22:23:54] <jdh> dunno.
[22:24:06] <jdh> it gets driven tight while riding.
[22:24:16] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5441-12M-PROTO-1-2-DR-X-12MM-METRIC-HEX-BIT-SOCKET-/151290186752?hash=item2339990c00&item=151290186752&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
[22:24:18] <jdh> I think he was turning it the wrong way, but he did get one of them out.
[22:24:22] <zeeshan> you can get those from the local stores
[22:24:26] <zeeshan> impact it out
[22:27:52] <Jymmm> plasma torch it out!
[22:29:05] <MrHindsight> that's an offset hex bit socket :0
[22:29:37] <XXCoder> throw the whole thing away
[22:29:39] <XXCoder> buy new one.
[22:29:50] <Jymmm> buy new lathe
[22:29:59] <zeeshan> reprap it
[22:30:11] <XXCoder> lol reprap made lathe
[22:30:12] <MrHindsight> 3 available, this guy must really bend a lot of tools
[22:34:11] <humble_sea_bass> reprap the man you wnat to be
[22:34:33] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:199786
[22:34:40] <MrHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDYzWDUxMA==/z/~msAAOxyOa9R0Tzq/$T2eC16NHJHYFFkZzHr1KBR0Tzp0rZg~~60_12.JPG wirenut posting
[22:35:20] <XXCoder> :P
[22:35:56] <MrHindsight> and they said repraps were useless <eye roll>
[22:36:03] <XXCoder> lol
[22:36:52] <MrHindsight> well it keeps them occupied and off the streets, it could be worse
[22:38:19] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monarch-Engine-lathe-Not-working-/161288640847 Monarch Engine lathe. Not working. why so much?
[22:38:39] <XXCoder> "has new motor"
[22:38:50] <MrHindsight> Transmission is broken
[22:39:01] <XXCoder> yeah I wouldnt buy a CAR with broken tranny
[22:39:05] <XXCoder> for 2k
[22:39:07] <MrHindsight> "sucker wanted"
[22:39:15] <XXCoder> unless its holy shit its house priced car
[22:39:43] <XXCoder> like $300,000 car with broken tranny I'd buy it for 2k lol
[22:39:46] <XXCoder> part em out
[22:39:55] <XXCoder> probably logo alone would go 2k lol
[22:40:17] <MrHindsight> Ferarri got flat tire, drives funny, best offer
[22:40:25] <XXCoder> one dollah!
[22:40:57] <MattyMatt> delorean, flux capacitor missing
[22:41:09] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CATERPILLAR-D6-CAT-BULL-DOZER-TRACTOR-EXCAVATOR-DOZER-/231213937394
[22:41:19] <MrHindsight> could be fun
[22:41:45] <XXCoder> $100! actualy if I had money I'd few it for few k. its awesome fun car (but never daily drive, its stainless steel shell is hella hard to fix
[22:42:11] <XXCoder> *buy
[22:42:12] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-MIXED-DIAL-INDICATORS-LOT-FEDERAL-STANDARD-GAGE-BROWNE-SHARPE/291132725065 Current bid:US $22.25
[22:42:28] <XXCoder> I wouldnt mind having onbe
[22:42:28] <humble_sea_bass> xx, you need to aim for fun cars mang
[22:42:37] <humble_sea_bass> not weird shit like that
[22:42:46] <XXCoder> volkwagon
[22:42:50] <zeeshan> is federal made in usa?
[22:43:13] <humble_sea_bass> 100% of that lot is in bad shape
[22:43:31] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lodge-Shipley-14-Lathe-with-12-chuck-taper-attachment-/161289591277 but the bed is shot
[22:43:37] <XXCoder> if it works it works, but dunno if working, or worth it. I would love to have one.
[22:43:56] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131175497305
[22:44:00] <jdh> cheap toy
[22:44:03] <jdh> if you are near there
[22:44:08] <XXCoder> MrHindsight: $100 loading fee
[22:44:24] <XXCoder> dunno if it applies even if you load it with your own equipment and crew
[22:44:36] <jdh> https://www.golemgear.com/p-220-armadilloccr-sidemount-system.aspx
[22:44:38] <jdh> <urk>
[22:44:45] <XXCoder> damn thats cheap
[22:45:06] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Milling-Machine-by-Bridgeport-/161289684314
[22:45:34] <MrHindsight> This machine in my estimation is to good to scrap. and $99 loading fee LOL
[22:45:38] <XXCoder> there'd be deals to be had if people could teleport.
[22:45:56] <zeeshan> thjats the smaller bridgeport
[22:46:09] <zeeshan> it doesnt look too bad
[22:46:12] <zeeshan> just dusty
[22:46:19] <zeeshan> and sitting for a while
[22:46:23] <zeeshan> all the way oil collects dust
[22:47:00] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fairbanks-Morse-Industrial-Scale-/161289807019?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258d9f24ab
[22:47:02] <zeeshan> finally found a scale
[22:47:04] <zeeshan> that would fit me
[22:47:10] <MrHindsight> jebesus people sell their broken collets and tool holders
[22:47:23] <zeeshan> MrHindsight: people are dumb
[22:47:29] <zeeshan> the ones that piss me off are the ones that sell old tools
[22:47:34] <zeeshan> for above retail prices or close to retail.
[22:47:43] <zeeshan> its like buddym its an indicator thats been used for 20 years
[22:47:46] <zeeshan> youre not gonna get 200$ for it.
[22:47:49] <zeeshan> more like 60$
[22:48:03] <zeeshan> or less
[22:48:05] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCRAP-METAL-/380882872652 For parts or not working
[22:48:38] <MrHindsight> well most of it is oxide
[22:49:40] <XXCoder> I wonder if theres cheap sources of alum slabs and such
[22:49:49] <XXCoder> so I could make stuff with em when I'm bit more skilled
[22:50:29] <MrHindsight> tjtr33: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sodick-A320-WIRE-EDM-/271466561182
[22:51:07] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fine-Sodick-Ram-Type-CNC-EDM-A5C-R-ATC-AS-IS/400261733783
[22:51:15] <MattyMatt> http://backyardmetalcasting.com/ chap alu slabs of any thickness
[22:52:43] <XXCoder> cheap or crap? or both? lol
[22:52:58] <XXCoder> actual;ly "crappy" is fine to me as long as its solid and not weird bent and stuff
[22:53:16] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KITAMURA-Mycenter-2-Vertical-CNC-FOR-PARTS-ONLY-/321371699409
[22:55:09] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Charmilles-Model-400-Eleroda-/181396719270
[22:56:49] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: oh cast my own eh
[22:57:00] <XXCoder> wonder what sources I could use if I'd cast my own
[22:57:35] <deMimsy> wow, a lot more people in here than I expected...
[22:57:45] <XXCoder> more thn diycnc saly
[22:57:47] <XXCoder> sadly
[22:57:48] <tjtr33> MrHindsight, thx but i dont do wedm, thats the simple easy stuff, the reprap of edm. hehe
[22:58:02] <XXCoder> that channel is mostly slient even when its more generic channel than this
[22:58:34] <MrHindsight> there's a diycnc channel!?
[22:58:44] <XXCoder> ... surpise?
[22:58:48] <deMimsy> Does anyone know if it is possible to attach a callback function to when a HAL pin changes state?
[22:59:42] <MrHindsight> tjtr33: are those old Sodik wire machine worth anything or useful?
[23:00:27] <XXCoder> do people still use wire machines besides with foam?
[23:01:13] <XXCoder> of course I'm ingroant so probably used all time lol
[23:03:10] <tjtr33> MrHindsight, if you need one, sink edm can do fine work on work that easily flexes ( no contact) , deep slots and square corners,
[23:03:11] <tjtr33> Sodick Inova is a good make, but some used weirdo memory that cant be bought.
[23:03:21] <XXCoder> I wonder if linuxcnc can be configured to use irc channel
[23:03:29] <XXCoder> so I can be informed with status as its working lol
[23:03:41] <tjtr33> you want used wedm, come over and look at our refurbed agies
[23:05:11] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/T3-786-Industrial-Tri-Axis-Robot-w-Controller-and-lots-more-pick-up-ONLY-/171315789405 here's a deal
[23:05:31] <XXCoder> so damn cheap
[23:05:35] <XXCoder> I think
[23:05:45] <XXCoder> too bad its billion miles away and million tons heavy
[23:05:46] <MrHindsight> We would like to know it finds a good home rather than a Terminator movie ending for it.
[23:06:01] <MrHindsight> we have this priced correctly, and less than scrap value in 2014
[23:07:44] <MrHindsight> something that size new is >$30K for even the most basic robot
[23:07:56] <tjtr33> MrHindsight, same as my unit http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-Hansvedt-MS60C-Sinker-EDM-/111238081734
[23:08:06] <XXCoder> wonder wehats broken in it
[23:08:09] <tjtr33> but 2k :)
[23:09:17] <MrHindsight> nice, I just never really need one. Plus I'm working on things from the other direction, adding vs eroding
[23:09:37] <XXCoder> why nbot both ways lol
[23:09:47] <XXCoder> theres that fancy machine that does that
[23:10:28] <MrHindsight> yeah depends on the tech, sloppy additive with cutting tools for cleanup
[23:10:47] <XXCoder> yeah
[23:11:30] <MrHindsight> like the MIG type wire machines that make blobs of metal that need to be machined into finished parts
[23:12:15] <XXCoder> someone linked me video of machine that welded pipe to have funnel with small pipe connectors around it
[23:12:33] <XXCoder> something that'd have to be cast or machined out of HUGE chunk of metal
[23:12:46] <MrHindsight> dmls + 5 axis mill
[23:13:03] <XXCoder> then it milled surfaces so its smooth. it left external bit rough
[23:14:13] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsEqKbNalh4 this type uses SLS and milling
[23:14:40] <XXCoder> gonna love corprate machinist ads
[23:14:46] <XXCoder> thats different one
[23:14:53] <XXCoder> nice though
[23:15:00] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA think yours was this
[23:15:17] <XXCoder> wish it was actually mine lol watching
[23:15:57] <MrHindsight> this is the tech I work on, hybrid additive manufacturing
[23:16:03] <XXCoder> yep that video!
[23:16:24] <XXCoder> is funnel correct word for that pipe shape? increasing diameter
[23:16:43] <MrHindsight> or conical
[23:16:48] <tjtr33> reducer
[23:16:49] <XXCoder> cool
[23:16:54] <MrHindsight> tapered
[23:17:23] <XXCoder> anyway its pretty damn complex shape
[23:17:34] <XXCoder> even cast molding'd have hard time a bit
[23:17:48] <MrHindsight> well you can print parts that you can machine
[23:17:58] <MrHindsight> can't machine
[23:18:14] <XXCoder> yeah but that machines awesome
[23:18:17] <MrHindsight> you could print parts inside of parts and then close them up
[23:18:18] <XXCoder> one shot everything
[23:19:04] <XXCoder> wonder if first link (one with layers and weld) you could make working gears as is lol
[23:19:13] <XXCoder> meaning within case and allk
[23:19:41] <MrHindsight> sure, depends on the precision of the deposition
[23:19:47] <tjtr33> twincat cnc on the dmg-mori?
[23:19:55] <MrHindsight> you can with the powder SLS and mill
[23:19:57] <XXCoder> yeah. LOT of cnc stuff depends on precisionm.
[23:20:38] <tjtr33> that _is_ a pretty machine
[23:21:01] <MrHindsight> if you print gears you need that gap where they mesh or between bearing and race
[23:21:19] <XXCoder> and a way to properly drain it of that sandlike stuff
[23:21:35] <XXCoder> probably just holes
[23:22:06] <MrHindsight> but printing metal parts with different alloys in the same part is possible, but treating them for hardness is another story
[23:22:24] <MrHindsight> metal powder
[23:23:52] <MrHindsight> the part could then be placed in another 3d printer to have rubber handles printed on
[23:23:56] <MattyMatt> you could mix in tungsten carbide powder for hardness
[23:24:11] <MrHindsight> or decorative powder coat with text and graphics
[23:27:19] <MattyMatt> enamelled all over, could make some pretty machines
[23:30:24] <MrHindsight> machining isn't just milling it takes lots of different tools to make things, it's the same for 3d printing, FDM is just one tool in the drawer
[23:30:51] <XXCoder> not surpised
[23:31:09] <XXCoder> I'm just having fun really with building cnc and evenually operating it
[23:31:14] <MattyMatt> if you tried to do that DMLS with a oxy/acet flame, would it blow material out of the meltzone quicker than you could spray it?
[23:31:16] <XXCoder> I'll be starting off with scrap wood
[23:31:28] <MrHindsight> but that crowd makes it sound like the screwdriver is going to change the world
[23:31:34] <MattyMatt> me too, that's exactly what I did
[23:31:52] <MattyMatt> wooden cnc, which I used to make a wooden reprap
[23:31:59] <XXCoder> matty was that to me or ahh cool :)
[23:32:16] <MrHindsight> depends on the gas velocity
[23:33:11] <MrHindsight> if you fed a wire it would work just like brazing or gas welding
[23:33:22] <MattyMatt> arr
[23:33:55] <MattyMatt> so an arc would be just as useful? I've seen mig prints and they aren't pretty. they look like 100% clinker
[23:34:29] <MattyMatt> that might just be on the surface tho, I haven't seen one sawn in half
[23:34:36] <MrHindsight> they can be pretty or pretty ugly, depends on the conditions
[23:34:46] <tjtr33> add/sub mfctrs http://www.mmsonline.com/blog/post/additive-and-subtractive-together-including-by-retrofit cnvrt old cnc to new tech
[23:35:44] <XXCoder> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140428-straw-based-3d-printer-filament-will-cost-half-the-price-of-pla.html interesting
[23:36:23] <MrHindsight> if you feed an FDM pellets then even PLA is ~$2/lb
[23:36:44] <MrHindsight> it's the goofy filament that has to be extruded first
[23:36:58] <XXCoder> yeah theres few projects that do exactly that
[23:37:10] <XXCoder> if I ever make printer I'll make it to use milk bottles plastic
[23:37:23] <MrHindsight> PET
[23:37:52] <MattyMatt> you can print with pellets if your printer is big enough to carry the screw extruder
[23:38:35] <MattyMatt> http://vimeo.com/33026239
[23:38:42] <XXCoder> wonder if you could combine extuder with printer head so you just pour pellets and it prints
[23:38:44] <MrHindsight> grind the pellets into powder and SLS them
[23:39:44] <MrHindsight> higher res and faster process
[23:39:54] <XXCoder> sls?
[23:40:03] <MrHindsight> laser sinter
[23:40:12] <XXCoder> ahh
[23:40:48] <XXCoder> I love how printing makes stuff previously impossible without triuck
[23:41:18] <MattyMatt> I think most of us are waiting for laser diodes to get cheap enough
[23:41:29] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD9-QEo-qDk
[23:41:30] <MattyMatt> and big enough
[23:41:31] <XXCoder> just buy dvd drive
[23:41:50] <XXCoder> or scrap one from broken one (must be broken elsewhere)
[23:41:52] <tjtr33> MrHindsight, add/sub repair of turbine blades http://utwired.engr.utexas.edu/lff/symposium/proceedingsArchive/pubs/Manuscripts/2012/2012-62-Jones.pdf
[23:42:40] <tjtr33> found at http://utwired.engr.utexas.edu/lff/symposium/
[23:43:09] <XXCoder> http://builders.reprap.org/2010/03/selective-laser-sintering-printer-part.html
[23:43:19] <tjtr33> aug 4-6 UT Audtin Tx
[23:43:28] <tjtr33> Austin
[23:45:08] <MrHindsight> MattyMatt: so I have some time until there are several thousand know-it-alls with bad SLS designs being peddled in reprap?
[23:45:41] <MrHindsight> enjoying the peace
[23:46:01] <MattyMatt> not much. someone's getting an 8W fibre laser to try. if that works, it's time
[23:46:34] <MrHindsight> they always manage to screw it up somehow
[23:46:52] <MrHindsight> it's only been around for 20+ years
[23:46:54] <MattyMatt> no one gets out of here alivce
[23:47:59] <MrHindsight> then it's maker powder, maker lasers, maker galvos
[23:48:34] <MattyMatt> I'm reporting you to superawsome sylvia
[23:48:48] <MrHindsight> and everyone complaining about loss of vision, why the layers don't stick and the bad odors
[23:50:02] <XXCoder> yeah thats why while I want laser cutter I dont think I will have one :(
[23:50:18] <XXCoder> so much risk. as a deaf person I REALLY dont wanna damage my eyes
[23:50:37] <MattyMatt> lungs is your big worry
[23:50:45] <MrHindsight> the worst they could do with a glue gun was get blisters from the hot nozzles
[23:51:19] <MrHindsight> now it's going to be "I can't see of the laser is on"
[23:51:34] <XXCoder> grammar error included
[23:51:42] <MattyMatt> if you're deaf you should specialise in broaching
[23:51:45] <MrHindsight> heh
[23:51:49] <XXCoder> broaching?
[23:52:19] <MattyMatt> brute force cutting of gear teeth and square holes etc
[23:52:20] <MrHindsight> or maybe a punch press
[23:52:31] <XXCoder> matt guessing its real loud
[23:53:11] <MattyMatt> that's what I hear, excuse the expression
[23:54:48] <MattyMatt> reprap suffers from being desired as office equipment, but it needs a light workshop environment to be built and maintained
[23:55:34] <MattyMatt> kinda like computers
[23:56:34] <MrHindsight> passing fad, the hype only attracts people for so long, then when they realize they have been hoodwinked move on
[23:57:01] <MattyMatt> they might catch on in kitchens
[23:57:22] <XXCoder> the first assumation should be ALWAYS "it will be useless"
[23:57:49] <XXCoder> I assumed my cnc would be useless first. I decided to go for it anyway, for shit and giggles and build skills
[23:58:21] <tjtr33> foam poop/concrete poop additive robot http://taubmancollege.umich.edu/digital_tech/digital_fablab/blog/0909-1209/video/
[23:58:36] <MattyMatt> I hoped mine would be more useful. it's turned out just stiff enough to mill wood like it's made of
[23:58:47] <MrHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130819-gartner-2013-hype-cycle-for-emerging-technologies-features-humans-and-machines.html
[23:58:58] <MrHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images/hype-cycle-pr.png
[23:59:04] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: did you use boxed gantry design? I plan to do so so its much stiffer
[23:59:55] <MattyMatt> http://i.imgur.com/qJOUQlh.jpg?1