#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-04-13

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[00:45:34] <zq> hm
[00:45:46] <zq> stepgen.c is filled with fp
[00:46:05] <zq> guess you could emulate that with fixed p
[00:50:13] <mhaberler> look again, only the servo thread function is ‚filled with fp'
[00:51:01] <mhaberler> stepgens (both vanilla and PRU) have 2 thread functions - one servo thread, uses fp; and a base thread, which does not use fp
[00:51:36] <mhaberler> therefore there is no need to emulate - no fp in base thread function
[01:12:06] <zq> mhaberler: i meant jmkasunich's stepgen
[01:20:05] <Jymmm> AutoSock, a tire chan alternative (not bad)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtBzXVbE3Rc
[02:34:37] <mhaberler> well that isnt used with the PRU, see http://goo.gl/DCcNuM
[03:56:39] <GuShH_> holy crap a ball bearing jacobs chuck model 20n is 350 bucks?
[03:58:48] <archivist> the chinese copy is a lot cheaper and if you get to pick the best in a pile is reasonably good
[03:59:05] <GuShH_> haha
[03:59:11] <GuShH_> like pigs, sorting through the crap.
[03:59:29] <GuShH_> I'm looking at used jacobs ... that one just got mixed in the list
[03:59:42] <GuShH_> the low duty small ones are very cheap by comparison
[03:59:45] <GuShH_> even when new
[04:00:00] <archivist> boss had one, looked at a pile at a show, got one and it is effin good for the price
[04:00:05] <GuShH_> but... the ball bearing, that's not something they produce. the rest seems to be the same inside
[04:00:21] <GuShH_> I just looked at a picture of a replacement kit
[04:01:17] <GuShH_> seems the outer sleeve just rides on the bearing but the rest is exactly the same?
[04:02:29] <archivist> copied, but to what specification :)
[04:03:08] <GuShH_> http://www.sears.com/jacobs-manufacturing-co-ball-bearing-geared-key/p-SPM7466704905
[04:03:27] <GuShH_> I like how one of the pictures shows an old rusty one...
[04:03:53] <GuShH_> and it's not even the same model
[04:04:29] * GuShH_ has a beef with jacobs, from Lost
[04:05:16] <archivist> I just get an expport page from sears not what you pointed at
[04:06:03] <GuShH_> oh?
[04:06:24] <Loetmichel> dito here
[04:06:33] <GuShH_> odd
[04:06:40] <archivist> some sites are badly designed
[04:07:18] <GuShH_> I would say most are
[04:07:33] <GuShH_> http://imgur.com/8YR4Ap1
[04:07:44] <Loetmichel> someone thought it was a good idea to track the client IP for location and sow the "approbiate" page instead of the linked one ;-)
[04:07:46] <GuShH_> so maybe that wasn't USD?, what's going on...
[04:08:03] <GuShH_> that's so wrong at so many levels.
[05:37:49] <Deejay> moin
[05:43:39] <witnit> hey =D
[05:44:40] <bedah> ha! moin deejay
[05:44:52] <Deejay> hi bedah
[05:44:53] <bedah> ach mist, der kennt mich hier nicht
[05:44:55] <bedah> ;D
[05:45:12] <bedah> hi all
[05:46:17] <Deejay> wer büssn du?
[05:48:27] <Deejay> hm
[05:50:50] <Deejay> the man with the cap
[05:51:59] <bedah> http://imgur.com/a/hxeu7 the man with a fully operational minicnc now :D
[05:52:18] <witnit> =D
[05:52:19] <bedah> no time to connect drivers.. gotta clean up the house
[05:52:22] <witnit> nice
[05:52:54] <Deejay> the man with steppers mounted on stilts
[05:53:13] <Deejay> ;-)
[05:54:10] <archivist> stilts are ok the coupler I see not so ok
[05:55:33] <witnit> whats wrong with coupler?
[05:55:39] <Deejay> have to leave again, cya later guys!
[05:55:54] <witnit> cu
[05:56:16] <bedah> yes, what's wrong with them? too sturdy?
[05:57:34] <witnit> the only real problem i see is the open vents on spindle
[05:58:08] <archivist> normally one uses a coupler that can deal with the stepper axis not being in line with the screw axis
[05:58:23] <witnit> oh to prevent binding
[05:59:01] <archivist> the extra force will cause the coupler screws to come loose just when you dont want
[05:59:16] <bedah> hm ok.
[05:59:35] <bedah> i think even loctite will not solve this
[05:59:50] <witnit> I dunno those are not very high torque
[06:00:12] <witnit> but some of those couplers are cheap
[06:00:33] <witnit> but hard to fit where that goes I think
[06:02:12] <Swapper_> anyone that can explain why i get 8192 pulses when i turn the motor shaft of the motor 1 turn but the output lines should be 4096
[06:02:43] <Swapper_> i did see somting that the mesa 7i77 multiply the counts with 4
[06:02:58] <Swapper_> but then that should be 16384
[06:03:05] <Swapper_> not 8192
[06:03:14] <archivist> counting edges
[06:03:27] <Swapper_> ya but why only x 2 then ?
[06:03:39] <archivist> have you set the right mode
[06:04:13] <Swapper_> i have mode 0
[06:04:18] <Swapper_> and that should be right
[06:04:28] <Swapper_> since i have a quaderature encoder
[06:05:00] <witnit> you are sure it is software issue
[06:05:19] <witnit> possibly got a wire backwards?
[06:05:34] <archivist> what does the encoder label say the count is
[06:06:14] <Swapper_> its a servodriver so i can set it in sofware
[06:06:27] <Swapper_> it emulates a 4096 line encoder atm
[06:07:06] <Swapper_> and in pncconf i type in 4096 lines and it x 4 = 16384
[06:07:20] <Swapper_> its for the spindle drive
[06:07:29] <witnit> what does the scope look like
[06:07:35] <witnit> same both directions?
[06:07:37] <Swapper_> and i trying to get the rpm output to work
[06:08:05] <Swapper_> yea i zeroed the encoder and turende the shaft 1 turn and it got 8192 pulses
[06:08:08] <Swapper_> on the counter
[06:08:24] <Swapper_> when i looked at the mesa 7i77 raw counter
[06:09:30] <Swapper_> and i think 8192 would work but i whant to understand why its that value and not 4096 or 16384
[06:09:36] <archivist> wired both a and b ?
[06:09:40] <Swapper_> yea
[06:09:48] <Swapper_> and index
[06:10:17] <witnit> have you tried hooking up the nots only?
[06:10:28] <Swapper_> but would i see this if 1 channel is not working ?
[06:10:32] <witnit> maybe the standard end of things is silly
[06:10:51] <witnit> yeah Im sure thats not it
[06:11:07] <witnit> I just had an issue in the past but I could see that my a or b was bad by scoope
[06:12:06] <witnit> do you know the true lpr of the encoder?
[06:12:14] <Swapper_> its a resolver at the motor
[06:12:18] <witnit> ohh
[06:12:20] <Swapper_> the servoamp converts it
[06:12:25] <witnit> I see
[06:12:25] <Swapper_> to emulated encoder
[06:12:44] <Swapper_> and i can set whatever up to 4096 lines per rev
[06:13:21] <Swapper_> but i feel i have missed somting in the scale/conversion process
[06:13:21] <witnit> maybe the resolver is only pulling half counts
[06:13:40] <Swapper_> hum ok
[06:13:42] <witnit> so everything else looks right but you never see it since its behind the amp
[06:17:24] <Swapper_> "Pulses are
[06:17:24] <Swapper_> output as two signals, A and B, with 90° phase difference and a zero pulse. The resolution
[06:17:27] <Swapper_> (lines before quadrature) can be changed with the RESOLUTION parameter:"
[06:17:33] <Swapper_> thats from the manual
[06:17:53] <Swapper_> maybe it is as you said, "before" quaderature
[06:18:39] <Swapper_> or how should i understand this ?
[06:18:45] <witnit> i never messed with such a device, im noob to resolvers common practice
[06:18:59] <witnit> souble whatever the resolution paremeter is?
[06:19:26] <witnit> double*?
[06:19:26] <witnit> or divide by two or somehting
[06:19:27] <archivist> use a scope to check what you set has happened
[06:19:27] <witnit> so what turn up
[06:20:41] <Swapper_> what i see with a setting of 4096 in the amp is that i get x 2 pulses on the encoder input
[06:20:43] <witnit> these RLS problems have to be the best education for such a field, getting problem solved in an irxc
[06:23:03] <Swapper_> then the amp is probably putting out 2048 lines per rev
[06:23:20] <Swapper_> if i put that in pncconf then i think its right
[06:23:25] <Swapper_> ill try it later
[07:47:38] <Loetmichel> hmm, strange. changed the chain kit on the 50cc motorcycle from 12/46 teeth back to allowed 12/50 teeth... bike still runs 80kmh instead of the allowed 50kmh... no just at a higher rpm.. ?!?
[07:48:33] <Loetmichel> ... at least its doing that now without the chain hopping teeth ;-)
[07:49:19] <GuShH_> darn ... http://www.dura-bar.com/ wish we had a place like that over here
[07:50:00] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: any ideas on non common sources of small diameter cast iron rod?
[07:50:15] <Loetmichel> no
[07:50:26] <GuShH_> aww
[07:50:37] <Loetmichel> other than : buy a plate in fitting thickness and saw/turn them down
[07:50:50] <GuShH_> o.O
[07:51:04] <Loetmichel> cast iron and small diameter doesent mix very well
[07:51:12] <Loetmichel> its a bit brittle that stuff ;-)
[07:51:31] <GuShH_> this blueprint calls for cast iron, half inch turned diameter so the stock would have to be slightly bigger
[07:51:47] <Loetmichel> how long?
[07:51:56] <GuShH_> the finished parts?
[07:51:59] <Loetmichel> yes
[07:52:12] <GuShH_> one is 15mm and the other is 9mm
[07:52:20] <Loetmichel> ok, then its ok
[07:52:30] <Loetmichel> i thought about 300mm and longer rods
[07:52:41] <Loetmichel> in half inch cast iron thats gureed to break off
[07:52:42] <GuShH_> piston and contra-piston
[07:53:24] <Loetmichel> but at this size: get a lump of laying around cast iron and a hole saw and saw your parts out of it
[07:53:39] <GuShH_> no lumps
[07:53:51] <miss0r> I have been reading on this image-to-gcode feature in the linuxcnc software. I am having a hard time making it do a "2D" version of the image: engraving only, at a preset dept. The image is all black and white. What am I missing - Can it be done with that software?
[07:54:10] <GuShH_> I've had chunks of broken cheap vises but I think I threw it all away
[07:54:47] <Loetmichel> http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/attachments/76341d1235318271-luefterplaetz-selbst-bauen-5462000.jpg
[07:54:52] <Loetmichel> this saws
[07:55:00] <GuShH_> I might end up using steel for the cylinder and aluminum for the rest
[07:55:02] <Loetmichel> just use them without the pilot drill
[07:55:10] <Loetmichel> in a sturdy mill ;-)
[07:55:10] <GuShH_> hole saw
[07:55:15] <GuShH_> no mill yet
[07:55:38] <GuShH_> I need to make space at the garage for one...
[07:55:49] <Loetmichel> or in a rigid table drill
[07:55:52] <GuShH_> previous owner left a big broken safe in there, he never came to pick it up
[07:55:59] <GuShH_> I need to get that thing OUT
[07:56:06] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[07:56:15] <GuShH_> it's the size of a knee mill...
[07:56:37] <Loetmichel> i once aske my ex-boss why he left the safe in the old company when moving to the new place.
[07:56:53] <Loetmichel> his answer: "that save has newton nailed down there!"
[07:56:57] <GuShH_> costs more to move it than to buy a new one in this case, but it's broken so no real use unless you want to invest in it
[07:57:04] <GuShH_> lol
[07:57:17] <Loetmichel> ...took me a while to get it that the monster weights four tons ;-)
[07:57:52] <Loetmichel> metric tons
[07:58:12] <Loetmichel> iirc the delivery was through the wall on a forklift
[07:58:39] <Loetmichel> i.e: they teared down a wall so the forklift could drive into the office with the safe on its fork...
[07:59:12] <miss0r> good'ol newton bolts :)
[07:59:34] <Loetmichel> set it down, pull the fork out, shove it in the corner of the office, drove out, wall bricks put back in place ;-)
[08:00:34] <miss0r> Arent anyone using the image-to-gcode in here ?
[08:02:31] <miss0r> I am looking for some software that can take jpeg, png ect. pictures and convert them to dxf code. So that I can then convert it to proper g-code. Is that available for linux ?
[08:02:57] <Loetmichel> that depends on what you hope to get
[08:02:59] <Loetmichel> a relief?
[08:03:14] <Loetmichel> a "light thru" panel?
[08:03:48] <miss0r> light thru? I am hoping do do routing at 0.2mm dept
[08:03:56] <GuShH_> height map
[08:04:12] <Loetmichel> so the colours/graysale represents the depth?
[08:04:14] <miss0r> well, I am hoping to use a "flat" design
[08:04:26] * GuShH_ could code that up but what's in it for him...
[08:04:27] <miss0r> no. black= 0.2mm white = 0.0mm
[08:04:29] <miss0r> something like that
[08:04:36] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[08:04:54] <Loetmichel> i have seen a tool that can do that but i dont rtemember the name
[08:05:01] <GuShH_> show me the image, some sample code.
[08:05:22] <miss0r> At the moment I am just trying to do http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/285/4/c/me_gusta_by_rober_raik-d4clrpu.png
[08:05:24] <miss0r> for the fun of it
[08:05:31] <GuShH_> sigh
[08:05:42] <miss0r> one has to start somewhere :)
[08:05:52] <Loetmichel> if all fails: use a tool that does 2 colour dithering and then use a vectorizer
[08:05:59] <GuShH_> my first test would probably be a set of good titties, not a meme.
[08:06:13] <GuShH_> and the sample code?
[08:06:24] <miss0r> I was hoping to be able to convert it to dxf or simular, so I won't have to do rows with depts across the plane
[08:06:36] <archivist> miss0r, image3gcode is a brightness to height, you just need to scale your levels
[08:06:48] <miss0r> GuShH_, at the moment I only have what the image-to-gcode python script generates
[08:06:52] <GuShH_> why would it be a 3 instead of a 2
[08:07:09] <GuShH_> oh so you want to create a vector path first...
[08:07:15] <miss0r> indeed
[08:07:19] <GuShH_> don't you also want it to massage you while you wait?
[08:07:31] <GuShH_> I've programmed vector tracers, but nothing worth sharing.
[08:07:40] <miss0r> sure - if it's not too much trouble ;)
[08:07:42] <archivist> you want an edge finding routine
[08:07:54] <Loetmichel> miss0r: if you use an image tool that converts your image to black and with ba dithering it "wood print like" and THEN use image2gcode you would get what you want
[08:08:21] <archivist> dont want dither with vectors
[08:08:35] <Loetmichel> dither is the wrong word
[08:08:39] <GuShH_> archivist: I actually used marching box followed by douglas peucker.
[08:09:03] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: you can simply constrain the levels
[08:09:13] <Loetmichel> there are tools that can convert color pic sto thes "line widht grayscale"
[08:09:17] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: but he wants to generate a logical path for the tool
[08:09:24] <GuShH_> instead of doing "scanlines"
[08:09:30] <GuShH_> not sure why he's on such a whim
[08:09:34] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3lBZo--kfU
[08:09:44] <Loetmichel> and then you can use THAT image to get it vectorized
[08:09:52] <miss0r> if possible - not to waste movement
[08:09:54] <GuShH_> sounds like a lot of effort for nothing
[08:10:16] <miss0r> it might be. I just thought that was the right way to go
[08:10:32] <miss0r> I am quite a newbie
[08:10:53] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIO-ZxW8PHM
[08:13:56] <GuShH_> PetefromTn_: that doesn't seem to be generating vector paths?
[08:14:00] <GuShH_> just a relief, heightmap...
[08:16:57] <PetefromTn_> http://www.cambam.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2170.0
[08:17:25] <GuShH_> still, not doing what he requested (vector path)
[08:17:56] <miss0r> Is it even out there, the software of which I speak?
[08:18:01] <GuShH_> it's not as trivial as it sounds to program something that works in "all cases"
[08:18:14] <GuShH_> miss0r: doubtful, I bet I can code it but again... for wat
[08:18:16] <GuShH_> what*
[08:18:18] <PetefromTn_> It can also do 3d toolpaths similarly surface from bitmap
[08:19:03] <miss0r> GuShH_, Indeed - I have nothing to offer. But I was thinking it would be alot faster to do it that way, that to scan across the plane
[08:19:12] <Jymmm> miss0r: Use the trace feature in inkscape.
[08:19:18] <archivist> vector from image is generally not the right idea
[08:19:31] <GuShH_> from a picture... well no.
[08:19:36] <GuShH_> but he showed an "ink" drawing
[08:19:58] <GuShH_> which consists of curves.
[08:20:12] <miss0r> Yeah - i'm not realy hoping to do portraits of people or anything like that. Just black/white design of sorts
[08:22:17] <miss0r> I was just hoping to get a fast and simple way to transfer graphic design to my board.
[08:22:41] <Jymmm> That's not what you asked for
[08:22:44] <miss0r> and since I am a horrible newbie, something I can draw in gimp or something like that
[08:22:45] <GuShH_> those tools do it, just not in the way you want them to.
[08:23:10] <miss0r> well, I want them to do it the way I want it :)
[08:23:13] <GuShH_> they take bitmaps, use their levels to come up with a depth, based on some given constraints... then output the code.
[08:23:19] <GuShH_> miss0r: hire someone then
[08:23:21] <GuShH_> or learn.
[08:23:33] <miss0r> learning is what I am hoping to do here ;)
[08:23:41] <GuShH_> start by learning c or c++
[08:23:41] <Jymmm> miss0r: This aint Burger King, you can't have it your way!
[08:23:46] <GuShH_> we'll see you back in about 10 years.
[08:24:09] <GuShH_> Jymmm: bah ever since they changed their fries they CANT have it my way.
[08:24:10] <archivist> edge detect to get from bitmap to vector, then vector to gcode
[08:24:13] <miss0r> Jymmm, Burger King won't even do it my way... apparently it is "crazy" to order a burger without the buns
[08:24:28] <miss0r> archivist, I will look into that, thank you
[08:24:28] <GuShH_> edge detection is just a convolution kernel based filter....
[08:24:30] <GuShH_> it's still a bitmap
[08:24:38] <GuShH_> you need to trace it.
[08:24:53] <Jymmm> miss0r: CarlsJr you can... Just ask for the low carb option and they will replace the buns with lettuce wrap
[08:24:53] <GuShH_> marching box works fine for that, you then have to optimize it.
[08:25:02] <GuShH_> but to characterize each separate object it well, gets tricky
[08:25:14] <GuShH_> using an accumulation buffer helps with that
[08:25:41] <GuShH_> a burger without buns is not a burger sir.
[08:25:56] <GuShH_> it's just some stuff on a patty.
[08:25:59] <archivist> miss0r, you will likely get a lot of jaggies unless you cheat or the edge detect also curve detects
[08:26:08] <Jymmm> My "Teddy Bear" I laser engraved on 12" black granite tile from a photograph... http://i54.tinypic.com/k2mo7n.jpg
[08:26:31] <GuShH_> if after the detection and optimization you convert the points into bezier curves, no jaggies..
[08:26:37] <GuShH_> again, non trivial.
[08:27:13] <archivist> curve fitting is a bit of a minefield :)
[08:28:22] <archivist> GuShH_, you got the Graphics Gems series of books?
[08:28:32] <miss0r> I can tell I need to read up on the terms you use :)
[08:29:10] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: meanwhile in Honda HQ, Japan - They're testing a brand new motorcycle http://oi60.tinypic.com/4k7mte.jpg
[08:32:30] <miss0r> With a simple image-to-gcode generated g-code, wouldn't it be possible to just remove all movement where z=0 ?
[08:32:41] <miss0r> and them use that as a half-assed sorta' tracing?
[08:33:28] * GuShH_ doesn't follow
[08:33:30] <GuShH_> archivist: maaaybe
[08:33:58] <archivist> I thought you would :)
[08:34:08] <archivist> I am missing one of the set
[08:34:19] <miss0r> This one traces across the plane and each time it has to do some milling, it dips z to minus something. If I could just find a way to remove all the movement where it just scans the surface, I would have reduced the time spend by alot
[08:34:46] <GuShH_> I'm not sure it would output non required code
[08:35:20] <GuShH_> but it could just be a dumb dump
[08:35:56] <miss0r> it does. err, I think it does - I see no reason for it to move from max to min each time it passes when it only touches down 5% across the scan
[08:37:57] <archivist> hack the code
[08:38:48] <miss0r> indeed. I just thought enough opensource people did this, to find a nice little software pack prebuild :)
[08:39:09] <GuShH_> opensource, pfft.
[08:39:48] <miss0r> GuShH_, Whats wrong with opensource? it's bad because it doesn't make you rich? ;)
[08:39:56] <GuShH_> nothing makes me rich
[08:40:10] <miss0r> Thats the spirit.
[08:40:12] <GuShH_> it's bad because most of it is stagnant crap
[08:42:31] <GuShH_> archivist: any idea what the "part" up top might be? http://imgur.com/XH7W0MY it's a small lot of trashy items someone is trying to sell.
[08:45:51] <archivist> part of the guts of something like a rotary
[08:46:42] <archivist> I have something similar in a rusty rotary I got off fleabay
[08:47:16] <GuShH_> rotary pump?
[08:47:55] <GuShH_> odd they would place that next to the lathe stuff
[08:48:34] <archivist> indexing type rotary
[08:50:12] <GuShH_> oh
[08:54:15] <archivist> internal to something like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/Meca/1.JPG
[09:03:18] <Einar> The top part looks like part from an old vehicle worm+sector steering.
[09:12:56] <XXCoder> omg freenode is back
[10:15:58] <miss0r> was it ever gone?
[10:16:30] <XXCoder> it seemed like central server was down
[10:16:38] <XXCoder> so if you was already on you'd have stayed on
[10:17:29] <XXCoder> or if you had specific irc server like whatever.freenode.net intread of main server at freenode.net it'd stll work
[10:19:30] <Jymmm> IT's called a netsplit
[10:19:51] <XXCoder> Jymmm: nah its different, I could connect to main server then it disconnects me
[10:20:06] <Jymmm> IT didn't like you
[10:20:14] <XXCoder> someone was ddos-ing main server so it couldnt move people to one of node servers
[11:01:09] <Deejay> re
[11:01:59] <Jymmm> Deejay: You're REALLY late, or REALLY early =)
[11:02:15] <Deejay> hrhr
[11:02:20] <Deejay> hi jymmm
[11:02:24] <Jymmm> how goes
[11:27:16] <Connor> xc,m7bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb.
[11:27:37] <archivist> and a half
[11:30:23] <shaun413> Hm
[11:30:25] <shaun413> Conor
[11:30:34] <shaun413> What mini lathe did you say was good??
[11:31:04] <shaun413> Lms or microlux
[11:32:27] <archivist> shaun413, it gets boring asking the same/similar question daily
[11:32:50] <GuShH_> lol
[11:32:53] <GuShH_> dejavu
[11:33:24] <GuShH_> shaun413: do you even know what you want?
[11:33:45] <GuShH_> it might be your birthday but I'm not going to be any nicer.
[11:34:14] <shaun413> Yes
[11:34:17] <shaun413> Ol
[11:34:31] <Jymmm> GuShH_: For 50¢, will you be meaner?
[11:34:33] <archivist> I asked for a welder for my 21st, got it but could not use it, got a job as a trainee welder
[11:34:44] <GuShH_> will I!
[11:35:07] <shaun413> I want something small
[11:35:17] <shaun413> I want a decent 7x12 size
[11:35:25] <GuShH_> I'll just head back in time and buy me a house, still have spare change for a car and a bimbo.
[11:35:47] <GuShH_> shaun413: try some of those pills they advertise on spam
[11:35:58] <shaun413> :/
[11:36:00] <Jymmm> GuShH_: If you get the bimbo, you won't be able to afford the house/car/food =)
[11:36:07] <GuShH_> for a solid 12 incher
[11:36:19] <XXCoder> shaun413: http://woodlandantics.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/how-small-is-your-lathe/
[11:36:19] <shaun413> ...
[11:36:20] <GuShH_> Jymmm: oh it's the 20s... you can buy everything with 50 cents.
[11:36:25] <XXCoder> you can fit 100 of those in your apt
[11:36:37] <MrHindsight> if you need an output to toggle many times synchronized to motion what's a good way to do it? M62 and M63 require motion right after in order to flip states. M64 and M65 break blending.
[11:36:42] <Jymmm> GuShH_: heh
[11:37:07] <shaun413> Lol
[11:37:25] <shaun413> I think lms is nice
[11:37:28] <shaun413> Agreed?
[11:37:31] <GuShH_> no
[11:37:35] <GuShH_> it's the same HF shit
[11:37:36] <shaun413> Why
[11:37:42] <shaun413> So just get hf
[11:37:46] <GuShH_> they come from the same factory, maybe different quality per order
[11:37:56] <shaun413> Sherline is usa
[11:38:08] <GuShH_> sherline is bs on a stick.
[11:38:10] <shaun413> But smaller
[11:38:17] <archivist> too small
[11:38:17] <GuShH_> it's not even a full lathe.
[11:38:21] <shaun413> So what's good
[11:38:24] <MrHindsight> let's say I want a digital output to change states every 4 steps or based on some regular interval based on encoder position
[11:38:26] <shaun413> That I can buy new
[11:38:32] <GuShH_> why new?
[11:38:36] <GuShH_> it will require fitting anyway
[11:38:49] <shaun413> I don't want to mess with old stuff
[11:38:58] <GuShH_> you'll have to mess with the new stuff just as much
[11:39:03] <archivist> cheap new is hf quality
[11:39:09] <XXCoder> http://www.csparks.com/watchmaking/Lathes.html some good ones, and couple small ancient ones
[11:39:09] <GuShH_> old is better
[11:39:17] <shaun413> Hm
[11:40:09] <shaun413> I don't have room for something huge
[11:40:18] <GuShH_> shaun413: there are a lot of good used lathes in your region... not the case for me, I could never find a complete one.
[11:40:29] <GuShH_> they're not huge, those old craftsman were BENCH lathes.
[11:40:37] <shaun413> Hmm
[11:40:41] <GuShH_> possibly some logans and whatnot also small in size.
[11:40:53] <GuShH_> again, get something as complete as possible, with a gearbox.
[11:41:12] * GuShH_ sighs
[11:41:34] <XXCoder> think this can fit? heh http://www.lathes.co.uk/deutschlanddortmund2/img15.jpg
[11:41:38] <shaun413> :/
[11:41:57] <shaun413> A bit too big
[11:42:01] <GuShH_> that's smaller than the biggest one I found locally
[11:42:15] <shaun413> :/
[11:42:15] <GuShH_> but still, do want.
[11:42:20] <shaun413> So the atlas
[11:42:25] <shaun413> Is that a good machine
[11:42:50] <GuShH_> that's probably a 40 ton lathe if my eye doesn't suck today
[11:42:56] <shaun413> No
[11:43:00] <GuShH_> the one in the picture.
[11:43:10] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: harhar
[11:43:18] <Loetmichel> (the dog)
[11:43:41] <Loetmichel> no, my small "scooter size" motorcycle is just for commuting to work
[11:44:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14283
[11:44:09] <Loetmichel> its just a 50cc 2 stroke
[11:44:14] <Loetmichel> water cooled
[11:44:25] <Loetmichel> and runs MUCH faster than allowed in germany
[11:44:40] <shaun413> http://allentown.craigslist.org/tls/4416179438.html
[11:44:58] <Loetmichel> even with the new (correct) chain kit
[11:44:59] <GuShH_> shaun413: no quick change gearbox
[11:45:07] <shaun413> Oh
[11:45:18] <GuShH_> shaun413: means every time you want to change feeds you spend 10 minutes fiddling with gears, assuming you have them.
[11:46:10] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: so what? whre is the problem to fit a stepper to the leadscrew and a quadrature sensor to the main spindle?
[11:46:13] <GuShH_> not only do you have to set the right gears, also their meshing gap (surely there's a proper name for this) so they engage properly
[11:46:20] <Loetmichel> (and some electronics)
[11:46:22] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: we're talking about Shaun
[11:46:35] <Loetmichel> ok, granted, THAT will be a problem ;-)
[11:46:42] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: fyi that model had an optional quick change gear box.. already told him this the other day
[11:46:55] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[11:47:00] <GuShH_> if you can find the old catalogs they show the optionals
[11:47:36] <Loetmichel> my (bigger) lahe has that gear change problem also
[11:47:40] <GuShH_> shaun413: ask someone with a lathe if they'll let you use it...
[11:48:01] <Loetmichel> have a BUCH of gears, still only metric threads possible
[11:48:24] <Loetmichel> as soon as i have fitted the new 3 phase motor i will address that problem ;-)
[11:48:37] <GuShH_> mine is "half norton" meaning you get about 9 positions on the given A and B gears, but you still have to change them manually, it's just nice having that range... in fact for metric threading I get most pitches within those 9 positions
[11:48:52] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: pfft I'm fitting mine first with a 3 phase and a vfd!
[11:48:59] * GuShH_ frowns
[11:49:08] <shaun413> I've used one
[11:49:16] <GuShH_> doesn't show
[11:49:39] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: sure wiht vfd
[11:49:48] <Loetmichel> but the original motor was buned down
[11:49:58] <Loetmichel> thats why i got that lathe for free
[11:50:04] <shaun413> http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=360858256309
[11:50:08] <shaun413> What about this
[11:50:12] <Loetmichel> (paid 200 eur for the gears and the tools and holders... )
[11:50:29] <GuShH_> shaun413: anyway that southbend you won't be able to pick it up yourself, I bet I can lift it but I see you as a skinny little boy, like Morty from Rick and Morty.
[11:50:33] * GuShH_ rofls
[11:50:36] <Loetmichel> shaun413: if you have a place for it...
[11:50:43] <Jymmm> Here's a nice inexpensive, compact lathe/mill... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
[11:50:51] <Loetmichel> ... DONT buy it, rent the place to someone who can use it ;-)
[11:51:02] <GuShH_> shaun413: ohh that's giving me a stiffy
[11:51:30] <XXCoder> longer, thicker, harder. :P
[11:51:32] <shaun413> Lol
[11:51:46] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: harhar
[11:52:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Wut?
[11:52:03] <GuShH_> moving that thing, even in parts.. must be hell.
[11:52:04] <Loetmichel> (cleainung up the drool from the desk)
[11:52:15] <shaun413> Jymmm
[11:52:19] <shaun413> What's your take
[11:52:34] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: (Yeah, the best cnc porn out there)
[11:53:16] <GuShH_> whaha that's a bit expensive for a used china job http://allentown.craigslist.org/tls/4420015309.html
[11:53:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Well, there is the "John Holmes/Ron Jeremy" too, but that's just too much cnc porn for this crowd
[11:53:48] <GuShH_> ron.. that ugly bastard.
[11:54:11] <Jymmm> GuShH_: Ugly, maybe. But he's a really nice guy actually.
[11:54:22] <GuShH_> how could I know.
[11:54:33] <Deejay> machine pr0n!
[11:54:36] <Deejay> nice video
[11:54:40] <Jymmm> GuShH_: Not my problem you're a prude =)
[11:54:47] <GuShH_> o.o
[11:54:48] <shaun413_> Jymmm what's the best SMALL lathe
[11:54:56] <GuShH_> one you can afford
[11:54:58] <GuShH_> and use
[11:55:36] <GuShH_> shaun413: ask again and I will somehow manage to get medieval on yo arse.
[11:56:22] <archivist> there is no "best", there is the "right tool for the job"
[11:59:27] <GuShH_> archivist: what are the chances of the vertical head not being siezed up in rust? http://i.imgur.com/wX7dPua.jpg
[11:59:33] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: made my own trad on a chinese mill lately.
[11:59:46] <Loetmichel> really surprised that that worked like a charm:
[11:59:47] <GuShH_> they threw it under there with an endmill stuck to a collet, it's all evenly rusted...
[11:59:58] <GuShH_> I bet it doesn't even turn
[12:00:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14820&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[12:00:54] <archivist> GuShH_, that looks ok for a clean up, wont be perfect but good and solid, aany pics of thee vertical?
[12:01:04] <Loetmichel> ... with a 60° engraving bit
[12:01:09] <GuShH_> no, but you can see it on the knee
[12:01:16] <GuShH_> it's a small head
[12:01:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: "trad" ?
[12:01:31] <GuShH_> thread
[12:01:32] <shaun413> Hm
[12:01:33] <Loetmichel> thread
[12:01:36] <shaun413> Well gushh
[12:01:36] <Jymmm> oh
[12:01:49] <GuShH_> looks like a nice threading job
[12:01:55] <Loetmichel> M16*2
[12:01:58] <GuShH_> no binding?
[12:02:06] <Loetmichel> binding?
[12:02:15] <GuShH_> does it get stuck in some portion of the travel
[12:02:21] <shaun413> So you don't think the little machine shop lathe looks good???
[12:02:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: al ?
[12:02:29] <Loetmichel> 7075
[12:02:29] <GuShH_> looks like aluminum to me
[12:02:39] <GuShH_> shaun413: it doesn't matter how it looks
[12:02:48] <shaun413> Does it work good
[12:02:50] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: why al?
[12:03:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: as a test?
[12:03:05] <archivist> GuShH_, with any luck that is just on the outside, the main problem is likely the tapers, is the price right though
[12:03:07] <shaun413> Gingery is aluminum
[12:03:12] <shaun413> People use those
[12:03:18] <Loetmichel> because its the outer shell for one of these Power knobs:
[12:03:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11570
[12:03:38] <Loetmichel> and there is no steel needed
[12:03:41] <GuShH_> I found another one but with a smaller table, for slightly less money... the other one is in very good condition because they use it at the shop
[12:03:54] <GuShH_> this one is clearly gathering surface rust waiting for a buyer
[12:03:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah
[12:04:04] <Loetmichel> it will be screwed in the back of this:
[12:04:12] <GuShH_> why won't these machine reselling dipshits spray some oil on them, at least?
[12:04:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14769
[12:04:28] <Loetmichel> to operate the power swirtch there
[12:04:55] <Loetmichel> you see the treaded hole whre it will go?
[12:05:12] <GuShH_> I see a hole
[12:06:14] <Loetmichel> let pic, middle of the rear wall, down about 30mm above the bottom
[12:06:18] <Loetmichel> left
[12:06:18] <GuShH_> archivist: I take it those vertical heads have no tilting capabilities, ie. they're non adjustable? (never been near this particular machine)
[12:06:19] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: rack mount what?
[12:06:28] <Loetmichel> ex-rack-mount
[12:06:37] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ok, what is it now?
[12:06:39] <Loetmichel> now shielded crypto box
[12:06:51] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: elaborate?
[12:07:01] <Loetmichel> no, customers order
[12:07:04] <Loetmichel> 2 pieces
[12:07:08] <archivist> GuShH_, what is the make?
[12:07:13] <GuShH_> it's local
[12:07:19] <GuShH_> back from when we had industries.
[12:07:21] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I can't read the lettering on the boxes
[12:07:21] <Loetmichel> and i am working on this for 4 weeks now
[12:08:12] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: The two slimmer boxes look to have IR ports ont eh front,
[12:08:37] <archivist> GuShH_, I wanted to see other pics from the way that machine looks I expect universal
[12:08:47] <GuShH_> it is a universal
[12:08:55] <Loetmichel> no ir ports
[12:08:57] <Loetmichel> http://www.safenet-inc.com/products/data-protection/hardware-security-modules/luna-sa/
[12:09:06] <Loetmichel> one of these and three backup boxes
[12:09:22] <GuShH_> no info anywhere, but I'm finding pics from other machines being sold
[12:09:25] <archivist> GuShH_, is the makers name here http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html
[12:10:02] <GuShH_> Nope
[12:10:11] <GuShH_> I can't find any names from Argentina
[12:10:26] <GuShH_> well just one, wecheco, but that's not a wecheco.
[12:10:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Heh, not shielded enough imo
[12:10:39] <GuShH_> the 3 I found are not them.
[12:11:09] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: If you want shielding let me know =)
[12:11:14] <GuShH_> actually the 3 listed brands are copycat crap brands
[12:11:19] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i dont think so
[12:11:26] <Loetmichel> we do shielding all the time
[12:11:34] <Loetmichel> i think we know what we do ;-)
[12:11:41] <GuShH_> except for wecheco, which were the only ones doing real machinery, lately they've been importing china jobs though, might not even be the same company.
[12:11:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Ok, let ME test it then =)
[12:12:03] <GuShH_> http://www.lathes.co.uk/boffelli%26finazzi/ that looks like a fine copy though
[12:12:12] <Loetmichel> we can certify to german zone and nato Sdip 27
[12:12:18] <Loetmichel> we test it ourselves ;-)
[12:12:23] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: fuck certifications =)
[12:12:23] <shaun413> Not much an ebay
[12:12:53] <archivist> GuShH_, could be a local copy of some other make with a few changes
[12:12:57] <GuShH_> archivist: the brand of these universal mills is "el cantabrico" should be cant�brico and I found no information whatsoever online.
[12:13:05] <GuShH_> most likely
[12:13:10] <shaun413> :/
[12:13:40] <GuShH_> same model, different machine, front view: http://i.imgur.com/vLpBcgT.jpg
[12:14:03] <archivist> if it is close to scrap price I would risk buying it as machines can be got going again
[12:14:22] <GuShH_> nothing is ever close to scrap price here
[12:14:27] <shaun413> Gushhh
[12:14:46] <shaun413> What brands am.I looking for
[12:15:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I did environmental testing for countermeasure systems, let me have some fun again =)
[12:15:45] <archivist> first decide what you are going to make so you get a machine that can make it
[12:16:03] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i wouldn call taht "fun
[12:16:12] <shaun413> I know what I'm going to make
[12:16:16] <Loetmichel> especially when i am done with such a system
[12:16:17] <shaun413> Small.parts
[12:16:20] <shaun413> Nothing large
[12:16:48] <archivist> GuShH_, ball park price?
[12:16:59] <Loetmichel> the last time the german authority (BSI) got one of my machines they thought their antenna cables were broken ;-)
[12:17:16] <Loetmichel> no signal at all ;-)
[12:17:51] <GuShH_> archivist: they're around 1k here
[12:18:05] <Loetmichel> and yeah, the window of the keypad and the window in the front are galss with 0,02mm grid copper mess in it ;)
[12:18:10] <GuShH_> in rusty "as is" condition
[12:18:21] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: explosions are always fun, think 4th of July all year long =)
[12:18:25] <GuShH_> with just the small vise
[12:18:44] <Loetmichel> explosions?
[12:18:56] <archivist> GuShH_, an example of rusted to shiny http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber+colman
[12:19:06] <Loetmichel> thats no rugged stuff, just shielded
[12:19:16] <GuShH_> archivist: I know it'll clean up, not concerned about the looks... more about the internal state
[12:19:25] <GuShH_> play and wear
[12:19:34] <shaun413> I love making rusty things shiny
[12:19:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, gassified cesium doesn't like humidity too well =)
[12:19:42] <GuShH_> you do....
[12:19:45] <GuShH_> ?
[12:19:55] <archivist> so it rattles a bit, still better than imported new :)
[12:19:55] <shaun413> Yes I do
[12:20:03] <shaun413> Lots of fun
[12:20:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Is that a thumbdrive plugged into the right side of the "drawer" ?
[12:20:47] <GuShH_> no doubt, I'm not buying a chinese mill.
[12:20:48] <Loetmichel> it is
[12:20:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: k
[12:20:58] <archivist> the original oil may have kept the innerds in good shape
[12:21:16] <GuShH_> the vertical head has an oiling port, that's all I know. but you can't tilt it from the looks of it
[12:21:25] <shaun413> So gushh
[12:21:33] <shaun413> South bend hardingem
[12:21:33] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: ... with the approbiate shielding cap ;-)
[12:21:40] <shaun413> What another brands
[12:21:44] <shaun413> Specific models
[12:21:45] <GuShH_> http://i.imgur.com/5E08b9w.jpg
[12:21:45] <archivist> GuShH_, I think I see a tilt in the middle
[12:21:53] <GuShH_> maybe!
[12:22:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I was mre looking at it's physical support or lack there of.
[12:22:07] <shaun413> I'll shine that right up
[12:22:27] <GuShH_> shaun413: for a nickel?
[12:22:28] <archivist> GuShH_, that second pic tilts
[12:22:30] <XXCoder> quick stupid question, what is best tool for ensuring squareness?
[12:22:37] <Loetmichel> the drawer sits on 2 real drawer ball bearing slides
[12:22:41] <GuShH_> not a very sturdy head
[12:22:49] <Loetmichel> and clicks in on closed
[12:22:49] <shaun413> For 10
[12:23:03] <Jymmm> XXCoder: a straight line
[12:23:04] <GuShH_> shaun413: I actually wouldn't touch that, looks OK it's just dirty.
[12:23:33] <XXCoder> to dermine 90 degrees?
[12:23:39] <shaun413> Hmm
[12:23:46] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: http://www.ebay.de/itm/300694232564?var=600041510310
[12:23:49] <Loetmichel> theses
[12:24:13] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Measure the corners diagonally
[12:24:20] <Loetmichel> so you can push it in, it will move 10mm out, then ypu can pull it out and wivel it down
[12:24:23] <Loetmichel> swivel
[12:24:55] <shaun413> Hmm
[12:25:02] <GuShH_> crappy restoration job http://pachiencordoba.com.ar/fresadora2.png seems that one didn't have the power feed optional
[12:25:23] <GuShH_> that's not a restoration that's a facelift "let's paint it and take a picture" seen so many I lost count.
[12:25:25] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Not the panel, just the thumbdrive's lack of support
[12:25:32] <GuShH_> spray can + camera
[12:25:33] <Loetmichel> ah
[12:25:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: creep out, bowed/flex downward, etc
[12:25:56] <Loetmichel> its simply plugged in the usb block inside the aluminium block
[12:26:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: it's still cheap USB socket stuff with no locking mech.
[12:26:25] <Loetmichel> the port is for copying keys to/from the box iirc
[12:26:40] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, I figured as much.
[12:26:43] <Loetmichel> so it wont be used while transport
[12:27:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I just have pref to uSD
[12:27:18] <Jymmm> waterproof too
[12:27:21] <GuShH_> shaun413: so Shaun, how many pennies to clean this one up? http://i.imgur.com/zkr1waY.jpg
[12:27:50] <shaun413> Few million
[12:28:00] <GuShH_> not gonna happen.
[12:28:18] <GuShH_> I'll give you half a coke and 2 hotdogs maybe.
[12:28:29] <shaun413> OK deal
[12:28:36] <shaun413> Ship it
[12:28:59] <GuShH_> It's like 200 bucks just to ship it to my place, you want me to ship it all the way to the US? you nuts!
[12:29:17] <shaun413> Pay for MW to come then
[12:29:20] <GuShH_> you could just get a bridgeport with that money I bet
[12:29:28] <shaun413> Yeah
[12:29:34] <GuShH_> not here.
[12:29:39] <GuShH_> 9k or so for one
[12:29:40] <shaun413> But no hot dogs
[12:30:22] <shaun413> How do you restore rusty metal
[12:30:30] <shaun413> I have an old hand drill
[12:30:33] <GuShH_> iron or steel?
[12:30:35] <shaun413> In want to restore
[12:30:43] <Loetmichel> soap and current
[12:30:44] <shaun413> Idk what it is
[12:30:56] <GuShH_> electrolytic rust removal, mechanical or fully chemical removal... depends.
[12:31:00] <shaun413> Not really rusty.. Just black
[12:31:03] <shaun413> And ugly
[12:31:06] <GuShH_> black oxide is fine
[12:31:11] <XXCoder> homebrew cnc lathe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z94ObRviC40
[12:31:14] <shaun413> I want to get it off
[12:31:19] <GuShH_> why
[12:31:22] <GuShH_> let's see it?
[12:31:29] <shaun413> To display it
[12:31:38] <GuShH_> black oxide is nice.
[12:31:39] <shaun413> Sure , let me take a pic.
[12:34:12] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzbf0BS3eUU homemade tiny lathe
[12:34:15] <shaun413> http://imgur.com/mDYJsV7
[12:34:41] <XXCoder> parts of it was made from 8020
[12:34:51] <GuShH_> cute
[12:35:07] <GuShH_> shaun413: looks fine as-is
[12:35:13] <GuShH_> I wouldn't touch it
[12:35:34] <shaun413> I want to make it pretty
[12:35:35] <GuShH_> that was most likely black paint on the cast iron
[12:36:15] <GuShH_> you know what's worse than no restoration, a bad restoration.
[12:36:19] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:36:23] <XXCoder> project pahe http://fredsena.com/mini-lathe-home-made/
[12:36:32] <XXCoder> definitely cool
[12:37:27] <zeeshan> i like how the machine
[12:37:36] <zeeshan> and the workpiece vibrates
[12:37:40] <zeeshan> asap he touches it with a tool :P
[12:37:47] <GuShH_> it's off center
[12:37:53] <XXCoder> yeah its not exactly high precision
[12:38:05] <GuShH_> artsy lathe
[12:38:14] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yzbf0BS3eUU#t=64
[12:38:15] <zeeshan> :P
[12:38:17] <GuShH_> it's a wood lathe, as it stands
[12:38:22] <IchGuckLive> a lathe to make parts shoudt not get mini in name
[12:39:35] <GuShH_> shaun413: a bit of oil is all that thing needs.
[12:39:42] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6svZzTBIeM
[12:40:37] <archivist> badly made hand tool, wrong shape for hand turning, google for graver hand turning
[12:43:45] <archivist> watchmaking vid has correct graver shape
[12:45:07] <GuShH_> I don't have the patience for that...
[12:45:12] <GuShH_> I would throw it all out the window.
[12:45:31] <XXCoder> me either
[12:46:15] <GuShH_> at least they don't spend much in metal stock
[12:46:17] <archivist> I prefer a motor and a stereo zoom microscope
[12:48:00] <zeeshan> is a 'record' vise
[12:48:10] <zeeshan> some special brand name vise from back in the day|
[12:48:28] <archivist> yes they were made in Sheffield
[12:48:36] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/london/6-record-n6-vise/499242530?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[12:48:39] <zeeshan> looks like its in rough shape
[12:48:44] <zeeshan> but i can bead blast it
[12:48:47] <GuShH_> heh talk about bench vises these days... boy are they CRAP
[12:48:49] <zeeshan> and repowder coat it
[12:48:53] <archivist> Irwin now own them so now likely chinese
[12:49:01] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/hamilton/record-112-steel-qr-6-bench-vise-england-heavy-duty-vice/554026963?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[12:49:08] <GuShH_> you might have to do something with the jaws
[12:49:11] <zeeshan> a better condition one, but theres no way im payng 400$ for a frigging vise.
[12:49:22] <zeeshan> gush i'd prolly make soft jaws for it
[12:49:27] <zeeshan> like copper or aluminum
[12:49:29] <archivist> needs new jaws
[12:49:37] <zeeshan> i broke my 4" vise a couple days ago
[12:50:05] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/brantford/vise/580577085?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[12:50:07] <archivist> that is in very poor condition
[12:50:09] <zeeshan> this one is in better condition
[12:50:14] <zeeshan> but only 4.5"
[12:50:17] <GuShH_> hrm
[12:50:28] <GuShH_> even the local brands here are now all china jobs
[12:50:44] <archivist> that 4.5 is ok
[12:51:16] <GuShH_> why are the jaws to narrow?
[12:51:40] <zeeshan> no idea :P
[12:51:56] <GuShH_> such nice casting, compare it to the crap they sell today
[12:52:06] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Record-No-3-engineers-vice-/131154280735
[12:52:28] <zeeshan> so they typicvally go for 100$ canadian
[12:52:31] <zeeshan> so thats a pretty decent deal
[12:54:53] <archivist> there are hundreds or Records on the UK ebay about 60% the woodworking vices they made
[12:55:26] <zeeshan> archivist: how far are you from luton
[12:55:42] <archivist> 100 miles
[12:55:48] <zeeshan> aw ;p
[12:55:58] <zeeshan> my sister is gonna visit me end of this summer prolly
[12:56:03] <zeeshan> i should get her to bring me some tools!
[12:56:36] <archivist> my brother has just driven past Luton if that is any help :)
[12:56:52] <zeeshan> hehe
[12:57:06] <archivist> he dropped in today and going back to London
[12:57:15] <zeeshan> shes a doc at luton & dunstable hospital
[12:58:11] <archivist> I am in the east midlands
[12:59:04] <zeeshan> when i look at a map of uk i get confuwsed
[12:59:07] <zeeshan> so many damn cities
[12:59:09] <Jymmm> Pocket Lathe... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhbRPqwfa0
[13:00:45] <archivist> I am south of Derby near Burton
[13:02:04] <archivist> hmm not too far http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-RECORD-No-84-4-5-112mm-QUICK-RELEASE-ENGINEER-MECHANIC-BENCH-VICE-/171299141700
[13:03:15] <zeeshan> damn thats a gorgeous vise
[13:03:22] <zeeshan> not even cast
[13:06:27] <archivist> you should be able to find plenty reasonable ones over there
[13:08:04] <archivist> never force this model the bars bend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irwin-Record-V75B-Table-Vice-3in-Boxed-/231009568915
[13:08:28] <XXCoder> man some people is crazy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE5KQ7PqO9k&feature=youtu.be
[13:08:31] <archivist> but smooth jaws on mine good for model tinware
[13:10:54] <XXCoder> meh thats small ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHHwdqTVo2w
[13:14:18] <XXCoder> funny thing initally it looks normal sized https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDiaIVbcOY
[13:14:54] <archivist> B- for the steps for the human toolchanger
[13:15:43] <archivist> an no way it is the worlds biggest multi axis cnc
[13:15:58] <XXCoder> some says its longest not largest
[13:16:04] <XXCoder> longest I can see, its freakin long
[13:18:20] <MrHindsight> who can we get to sponsor building the worlds largest CNC machine?
[13:18:33] <XXCoder> some billionaire I guess
[13:18:47] <XXCoder> make it size of football field
[13:19:07] <XXCoder> length, girth width of field lol
[13:19:30] <XXCoder> probably would have to have rolling cranes to place stock
[13:19:43] <MrHindsight> modify a bridge with a giant spindle
[13:20:19] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVsfxa6kM4 is not small
[13:21:43] <XXCoder> cnc router is easier to make bigger
[13:21:45] <MrHindsight> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Bruecke_Karnin.jpg
[13:22:15] <XXCoder> heck you can make one that could mill out building out of block of concerte fairly easily lol
[13:22:32] <XXCoder> mr indeed that could be converted I bet
[13:23:11] <GuShH_> MrHindsight: is that the new reprap?
[13:23:40] <XXCoder> lol it could be made into huge reprap too
[13:23:54] <XXCoder> just add print head and moving platform on that platform
[13:24:20] <XXCoder> make it use foot thick pleastic spidle ;)
[13:24:23] <XXCoder> print out a house
[13:26:34] <MrHindsight> http://i.space.com/images/i/000/012/238/i02/nasa-mobile-launcher-complete.jpg?1316436424
[13:26:40] <MrHindsight> says it's mobile
[13:28:06] <MrHindsight> I setup a kickstarter :)
[13:28:13] * GuShH_ stabs MrHindsight
[13:28:21] <XXCoder> I wonder if its possible to make "cnc" thats mobile platform so it could go inside very large material to remove more material
[13:28:39] <XXCoder> so it would have to have high precision wheels and such lol
[13:28:49] <MrHindsight> sure, live tooling on the end of an arm
[13:29:23] <MrHindsight> use lasers and reference points to calibrate and align the cutting heads
[13:29:44] <XXCoder> stock would have to be insanely large and complex interior to be worth it lol
[13:29:51] <GuShH_> boo I woke up too early and I think I've got what I can only describe as jet lag now...
[13:30:14] <MrHindsight> GuShH_: you get used to it
[13:30:45] <GuShH_> cortisol says "go to sleep"
[13:30:57] <GuShH_> low levels of, that is.
[13:31:08] <MrHindsight> I think the older you get the easier it is
[13:31:41] <MrHindsight> I used to feel nausea if up too long or up too early, now I hardly notice
[13:33:38] <gene79> cmorely, are you about?
[13:34:15] <gene79> might help if I spell it right, its cmorley! My bad
[13:34:47] <MrHindsight> wait until you have kids, you forget about getting any rest
[13:35:36] <gene79> Until they've been out on their own for 30+ years
[13:36:04] <gene79> And even then its spotty
[13:36:20] <GuShH_> me? kids? hahaha
[13:36:39] <gene79> Do you need lessons? :)
[13:36:57] <GuShH_> buy me a drink first.
[13:37:00] <MrHindsight> rent before you buy
[13:37:26] <gene79> all I ever had to do was hang my pants on the floor.
[13:37:59] <gene79> but that was a long time ago, damned near can't remember it now.
[13:40:51] <archivist> read the brochures, cheaper than renting
[13:42:09] <MrHindsight> here we go again, China post 4-02, in Chicago 4-07, now in Nashua, NH, probably back to Chicago by 4-15, stinking USPS
[13:42:23] <GuShH_> round and round and round it goes
[13:42:58] <MrHindsight> my packages spend more bouncing around US post offices then from China to the US
[13:46:37] <GuShH_> "my packages spend more time bouncing around than I do in bed"
[13:46:48] <Groguard> Has anyone used the amico end mills, are they an good?
[13:46:50] <PetefromTn_> Hey guys...
[13:47:05] <PetefromTn_> trying to get the BEST finish I can from this flycutter I have here.
[13:47:10] <PetefromTn_> In 6061.
[13:47:18] <GuShH_> PetefromTn_: hone your tool
[13:47:31] <PetefromTn_> It is an insert lathe tool.
[13:47:36] <GuShH_> hss?
[13:47:37] <GuShH_> oh
[13:47:38] <GuShH_> carbide
[13:47:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah carbide.
[13:47:44] <GuShH_> good luck.
[13:47:57] <GuShH_> I would use hss with a finely honed cutting surface.
[13:48:37] <PetefromTn_> Right now the BEST I have gotten was with about a 3.5 inch diameter cut and .010 depth of cut at 18 IPM and 2200 RPM
[13:48:44] <GuShH_> is the tool even meant to act as a flycutter?
[13:48:51] <GuShH_> due to the angle involved
[13:48:55] <PetefromTn_> I considered installing a 5/8 lathe toolbit in it.
[13:49:04] <PetefromTn_> LOL probably not.
[13:49:24] <GuShH_> I watched a video on this not long ago, I was considering making a flycutter
[13:49:56] <GuShH_> the difference between freshly ground and honed is very noticeable
[13:50:02] <PetefromTn_> at work they have some Seco OCtomills and they make a MIRROR finish but I don't have the coin so the fly cutter is the best I can do right now.
[13:50:16] <GuShH_> I noticed on the lathe yesterday
[13:50:56] <Groguard> Has anyone used the amico end mills, are they any good?
[13:52:26] <GuShH_> can't find the video, don't remember the author..
[13:52:47] <GuShH_> but he's in the youtube "machinist" circle
[13:53:11] <somenewguy_bu> so a home ground HSS flycuttter will give better alu finish than a carbide insert?
[13:53:23] <GuShH_> a carbide insert NOT MEANT for flycutting, I bet.
[13:54:11] <somenewguy_bu> they seem to make inserts in any and all styles, so i figured tehre was a big radius tool out there, but i still don't even own a flycutter so i got no idea
[13:54:12] <MrHindsight> I picked up a $40 set of lathe carbide tools for fly cutting
[13:54:30] <somenewguy_bu> neeed to gear down my motor b efore I can even try it sooo
[13:54:58] <GuShH_> it "might" be this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrJVYF95aE
[13:55:35] * GuShH_ pouts at the nice kurt vise
[13:56:41] <GuShH_> I usually just touch the hss on the wheel and put it back on the lathe, without realizing how much of a difference it makes to hone the edges.
[13:57:22] <MrHindsight> http://www.shars.com/files/products/catalog2013B/page58.pdf http://www.shars.com/products/view/3396/38quot_Carbide_Tipped_Tool_Bit_Set
[13:57:31] <somenewguy_bu> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCFlyCutter.html everythin i know about flycutters, and my tyring to justify a boring head casue it would work for me lol
[13:57:49] <somenewguy_bu> what do you mean when you say hone the edge? I have been googling it since it was first mentioned and I keep not finding exactly what you mean
[13:57:59] <GuShH_> those cutters from the video are very nice.
[13:58:18] <GuShH_> somenewguy_bu: honing with a stone
[13:58:43] <shaun413> Hi
[13:58:44] <GuShH_> I use a water stone, no idea about the grit size but it's the finest one I have and I use it for my knives.
[14:00:00] <somenewguy_bu> oh ok
[14:00:01] <GuShH_> at minute 17 or so he begins to hone the tool.
[14:00:14] <somenewguy_bu> that what I thought but wanted to make sure
[14:00:51] <GuShH_> the previous video shows the same technique but on lathe tools, which is what I compared myself and sure enough, honing does make a huge difference in surface finish
[14:01:18] <GuShH_> it does take much longer than just regrinding the edge though
[14:02:00] * GuShH_ felt bad for the stone as he kept honing on the same place every single time
[14:02:15] <GuShH_> but maybe he had a high spot there :P
[14:02:41] <MrHindsight> honing is similar to surface grinding, the finish should be similar
[14:03:09] <GuShH_> it's a much finer grit than your average bench grinder stone, which is what most people use
[14:03:15] <GuShH_> but you are taking away the rough spots
[14:03:26] <GuShH_> in all fairness you would use multiple stones
[14:03:53] <PetefromTn_> well apparently the cemented carbide lathe tool with a hand ground edge is FAR superior to THIS particular insert cutter for flycutting purposes.
[14:04:15] <GuShH_> superior how?
[14:04:26] <PetefromTn_> surface finish.
[14:04:35] <GuShH_> doesn't seem to be the case
[14:04:52] <PetefromTn_> it is the case here...
[14:05:26] <GuShH_> you were complaining about the surface finish
[14:05:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah..
[14:06:08] <GuShH_> I remember reading about inserts... then brazed ("cemented")
[14:06:16] <GuShH_> different beasts
[14:07:14] <PetefromTn_> yeah and what I am saying is that the finish I was getting with a screw in carbide lathe tool insert is NOT as good as this hand ground cemented carbide lathe toolbit I grabbed from my lathe tools just now and tried.
[14:07:42] <GuShH_> makes sense
[14:07:56] <PetefromTn_> Only bummer is that it needs to spin backwards compared to the other tool.
[14:08:27] <PetefromTn_> So If I intend to keep it setup that way I gotta remember to spin it the right direction. I am gonna mark the body of the toolholder with the specs.
[14:10:16] * GuShH_ keeps his brazed tools for steels and his hss for aluminums
[14:10:45] <GuShH_> I don't think I can reach the required SFM on carbide for some materials
[14:10:57] <GuShH_> oh well
[14:11:28] <PetefromTn_> Looks like about 2500 RPM and 24 IPM feedrate with a .010 DOC feels real good.
[14:11:56] <PetefromTn_> Not quite like that SICK SECO Octomill facemill gets but damn close.
[14:14:54] <GuShH_> heh indexable cutters are nice but not everyone can afford them!
[14:15:09] <GuShH_> plus it doesn't make much sense unless you run production
[14:15:45] <PetefromTn_> I dunno about that we don't really run production there and they have quite a few of them LOL.
[14:16:05] <PetefromTn_> I NEED to get a quality facemill here in the VMC so I can just use it when I need it.
[14:16:14] <GuShH_> obviously depends on desired quality and market :/
[14:16:36] <GuShH_> plus factoring in the cost of an extra process to reach the desired finish
[14:16:43] <GuShH_> electro polishing or what-have-you
[14:17:46] <PetefromTn_> They're not THAT expensive man.. Just a couple hundred bucks and you use them a LOT...
[14:18:18] <GuShH_> depends on the size
[14:20:00] <GuShH_> you know, it also requires less skill to run indexables, just sayin' that might be a factor these days as well.
[14:22:06] <GuShH_> nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-nUVem6JFQ
[14:29:18] <MrHindsight> 3D printing useless.. HA! http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140413-3d-printed-swimsuit-highlighted-at-shanghai-fashion-week-2014.html
[14:32:43] <ReadError> would have been nice w/o the 3d printed suit too
[14:32:47] <ReadError> so still, useless
[14:37:28] <XXCoder> GuShH_: by same erson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6SNxQpxvJc
[14:42:42] <GuShH_> ReadError: haha
[14:43:13] <GuShH_> 6 coolant jets... now they're just showing off.
[14:43:58] <GuShH_> XXCoder : still relatively expensive for the home guy...
[14:44:05] <XXCoder> I bet
[14:52:28] <XXCoder> wow http://www.topolabs.com/
[15:12:03] <nylar> lots of people in here making their own cnc's
[15:12:15] <nylar> should be able to find good answers
[15:12:29] <nylar> @ Noxz that is
[15:12:59] <Noxz> Alright, I am designing my CNC (I have many parts, like the ballscrews and linear bearings, and controller) and I wam working out the whole structure/frame, with primarily 80/20 extrusion (25 series) .. I was curious about the floor boards/table though.. if it should be a compeltely flat sheet or if it should have like holes or slide boards to be able to hold parts in place when machining them
[15:13:37] <jdh> t-slots
[15:13:38] <Noxz> I do plan on milling mostly metal
[15:13:41] <Noxz> t slots, I figured
[15:14:16] <Noxz> 80/20 is sort of all T-Slots, right?
[15:14:22] <jdh> yeah
[15:14:40] <Noxz> but, do I have flat stuff inbetween?
[15:14:55] <Noxz> my working area is going to be somewhat large, 36"x48"
[15:17:04] <GuShH_> woot
[15:17:25] <XXCoder> Noxz: maybe some idea http://www.overclock.net/t/755828/complete-2-x-3-custom-cnc-router-from-80-20-aluminum-extrusion
[15:17:30] <XXCoder> you can easily scale up
[15:18:53] <Noxz> he uses a flat board
[15:20:13] <XXCoder> yeah there is other designs that has entire surface of 8020s
[15:20:29] <XXCoder> so those is pretty strong and you got plenty of attachment points of stock
[15:20:55] <Noxz> onlinemetals has a 20% off of $100 till EOD, with a coupon coe, so if I need something flat, I better get it today
[15:21:24] <XXCoder> wow pretty good deal
[15:21:26] <Noxz> 2NEW is the code, btw
[15:21:44] <Noxz> newsletters ;) the emails are sometimes worth it in the end
[15:22:26] <PetefromTn_> At the risk of sounding negative, if you wish to be milling MOSTLY metal you are gonna have a hard time with a homebuilt 8020 machine that big or at all getting enough rigidity.
[15:23:57] <XXCoder> this ones strong enough to mill steel http://www.8020cnc.com/home
[15:26:01] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: let him build it
[15:26:02] <zeeshan> :D
[15:26:39] <Noxz> to aid the rigidity, I am doing quite a bit.. as well as some large 80/20
[15:26:53] <Noxz> maybe I'll sketch up some pics and throw them on imagebin
[15:27:06] <zeeshan> build and report
[15:27:06] <zeeshan> :D
[15:29:47] <PetefromTn_> Honestly while he did actually cut the steel I would imagine he probably burnt thru half a dozen or more cutters with that single op. Steel cuts much slower speeds than that generally. If you build it rigid enought you MIGHT be able to cut aluminum and I say that with the understanding that you will cut it like the guys who make the datron machines do. HIGH Spindle speeds and fast feedrates with shallowish depths of cut.
[15:30:23] <zeeshan> you can cut steel really fast
[15:30:23] <zeeshan> :D
[15:30:29] <zeeshan> w/ CBN+ lots of coolant!
[15:30:42] <Noxz> I don't need to do alot, more so prototyping some molds for thermoplastic extrusion
[15:30:42] <XXCoder> not if it breaks framework
[15:32:08] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[15:32:13] <zeeshan> did you end up ordering those shars hydraulic arms?
[15:32:20] <PetefromTn_> If you have any thoughts of moldmaking you are really needing a proper milling machine man. If it is just for fun and hobby stuff and goofing around learning then knock yourself out but if you have any real intentions of doing it for real get yourself a nice rigid mill.
[15:32:47] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: why would you want to do that
[15:32:55] <zeeshan> when you can build a floppy machine , then realize that
[15:33:00] <zeeshan> then get a real mill
[15:33:03] <zeeshan> =)
[15:33:24] <Noxz> some of the peices I am using are rather large, like 50x100 (25mm series) for the x axis beam, riding ontop of 4 THK ssr20 bearings rails (8 blocks)
[15:33:42] <zeeshan> Noxz: have you done deflection calculations?
[15:33:47] <zeeshan> or you just throwing around big beams
[15:33:49] <zeeshan> and hoping it works
[15:34:16] <Noxz> I am not sure if the deflection numbers exist for some of the 80/20 peices
[15:34:23] <zeeshan> they dont need to
[15:34:37] <zeeshan> you can find all your moments of inertia based on the profile
[15:35:45] <PetefromTn_> Noxz I am really not trying to bust your balls here I am just trying to say that cutting metal takes some rigidity and a homebuilt machine made from extrusions is going to be marginal at best. There is a real reason why machining centers are made from Cast iron and weigh many tons.
[15:35:57] <Noxz> I'm fairly sure that I can get done what I need to do
[15:36:10] <zeeshan> do you know what a simply supported beam is?
[15:36:27] <zeeshan> http://static5.theconstructor.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/clip_image001.jpg
[15:36:29] <zeeshan> something like that
[15:36:41] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: I wonder if using alum L beams to make qantry more rigit would work? (not for him, I just want just rigit enough to mill alum slowly)
[15:36:46] <zeeshan> to find the maximum deflection at the center for a point load like that
[15:37:00] <zeeshan> you can do y = -F*l^3 / (48E*I)
[15:37:05] <zeeshan> I = moment of inertia of the profile
[15:37:15] <PetefromTn_> well good luck with it. Honestly extruded aluminum machines are best suited for wood routing and plasma cutting etc..
[15:37:16] <zeeshan> E = modulus of rigidity (youngs modulus)
[15:37:21] <zeeshan> F = force
[15:37:23] <zeeshan> l = length
[15:37:49] <XXCoder> Pete yeah I would do mostly wood. Just want alum just to mill few parts for better cnc
[15:38:33] <PetefromTn_> Then build it as tight and rigid as you can and machine like the datron mills do fast speeds and feeds and shallow depths of cut and you will probably be fine in aluminum.
[15:38:53] <XXCoder> I was thinking box type gantry
[15:39:05] <XXCoder> using alum L bems to make it extra rigid
[15:39:11] <Einar> XXcoder: Milling aluminum with high RPM, small dia cutter and shallow cuts may work.
[15:39:31] <XXCoder> "small" like 0.25"?
[15:39:39] <PetefromTn_> or less..
[15:40:06] <Noxz> I am in no rush ;)
[15:40:23] <Einar> Your spindle may do 30KRPM? Then a cutting speed calculator will tell you what dia cutter to use.
[15:41:01] <PetefromTn_> There are tons of examples of well built CNC routers making light cuts in aluminum on youtube so it is doable. Steel is another story unless you like burning up cutters and whatnot.
[15:41:04] <Einar> And coolant! It does wonders for aluminum cutting.
[15:41:07] <Noxz> I'm looking at the hitachi M12VC router, with new collets from precisebits
[15:41:17] <XXCoder> yeah not doing steel anytime soon
[15:41:19] <XXCoder> if ever
[15:41:25] <Noxz> I never said steel
[15:41:53] <zeeshan> say you're using a 1" round solid bar (I=pi*D^4/64 = pi*1^4/64 = 0.0491in^4), 48 inches long, made out of steel (30ksi youngs modulus), say you got a point load of 40lb, you get 0.021" deflection at the center
[15:41:54] <Einar> For steel, rebuild a decent size older mill.
[15:41:54] <zeeshan> :P
[15:42:03] <zeeshan> hopefully i calculated that right :P
[15:42:10] <PetefromTn_> No you didn't but you did say MOSTLY metal and talked about molds for plastics..
[15:42:46] <zeeshan> Noxz: point is you can make a crazy mill out of 8020
[15:42:48] <zeeshan> if you do it right
[15:43:28] <Noxz> that doesnt seem too bad, especially if you measuer it you could do some software compensation
[15:43:32] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan in answer to your question no I have not bought one of the hydraulic indicator holders from shars but I am considering it.
[15:43:44] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: have you bought anything from shars?
[15:43:48] <PetefromTn_> sure
[15:43:49] <Noxz> (I'm using the SmoothieBoard)
[15:44:00] <zeeshan> its taking over 2 weeks to get my stuff
[15:44:01] <zeeshan> :{
[15:44:10] <PetefromTn_> as picky as it sounds like you are you would probably not like anything they sell..
[15:44:22] <zeeshan> i wouldnt have bought those mag bases :P
[15:44:22] <Einar> You cannot software compensate a vibrating beam!
[15:44:27] <zeeshan> einar sure it can!
[15:44:42] <zeeshan> grinders have accelerometers with compensation for vibration
[15:45:33] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: do you follow halligan on youtube
[15:46:09] <Einar> Zeeshan: And the price is?
[15:46:19] <zeeshan> couple million for the machine
[15:46:20] <zeeshan> haha
[15:46:33] <zeeshan> einar i'm just in troll mode right now
[15:46:47] <zeeshan> feeling a bit better after 1 week of sickness :{
[15:46:51] <Einar> So that is your hobby budget! Lucky guy.
[15:47:01] <zeeshan> i'm being sarcastic
[15:47:17] <PetefromTn_> no I honestly don't follow anyone on youtube.
[15:47:22] <zeeshan> aw
[15:47:46] <zeeshan> you know all someone needs to do to see if their machine is rigid is take a piec eof 8020 profile
[15:47:58] <zeeshan> 48" long, and stick one end in the vise and pull with some force at the other end
[15:48:03] <zeeshan> and you quickly see how flexible that stuff is
[15:48:18] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-3D-MINI-UNIVERSAL-MAGNETIC-BASE-HOLDER-FOR-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-NEW-/300938387327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4611535f7f
[15:48:23] <PetefromTn_> was looking at that one.
[15:48:31] <zeeshan> what does it say for shipping for you
[15:48:35] <zeeshan> it says 36.95 for me
[15:48:44] <PetefromTn_> free
[15:48:44] <Einar> Old style cast iron sliding against cast iron dampens vibrations in itself. And cast iron dampens vibrations too.
[15:48:53] <GuShH_> do you really want a mini holder?
[15:48:54] <zeeshan> 27+37+20 $ and i can get a small noga
[15:48:57] <GuShH_> I got one, not recommended.
[15:49:06] <GuShH_> get the full size.
[15:49:08] <zeeshan> Einar: cast iron is sexy stuff
[15:49:13] <PetefromTn_> they have a few at work and they are pretty nice actually.
[15:49:18] <PetefromTn_> Mostly NOGA models.
[15:49:23] <Noxz> free shipping
[15:49:25] <zeeshan> the graphite within the metal matrix dissapates the energy through molecular friction
[15:49:39] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i'd want a noga but im anti-israeli products
[15:49:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah and it is rigid too..;)
[15:49:50] <GuShH_> not very rigid, but most minis are like that
[15:49:56] <zeeshan> and plus a chinese mag base works perfectly fine. i've tried my friends
[15:50:24] <PetefromTn_> agreed honestly the guys who have the chinese models at work I cannot tell the difference between them and the Noga models.
[15:50:45] <PetefromTn_> the hydraulic ones specifically.
[15:51:01] <zeeshan> i mean you just want 2 things out of a mag base at the end of the day.. 1. don't fall down and break your expensive indicator 2. don't move when you're trying to take measurements
[15:51:28] <PetefromTn_> the fine adjust head on the chinese one is not as nice as the noga but it works fine.
[15:51:33] <zeeshan> why
[15:51:47] <Einar> Chinese Noga copy? Where?
[15:51:51] <shaun413> :/
[15:51:53] <Noxz> so... T-Slots, was the answer to my original question.. then I should not do the 20% off at online metals for a big sheet?
[15:51:55] <zeeshan> einar pete just posted one
[15:51:58] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-3D-MINI-UNIVERSAL-MAGNETIC-BASE-HOLDER-FOR-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-NEW-/300938387327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4611535f7f
[15:52:01] <GuShH_> they make chink hydraulic bases... that's not one of them
[15:52:13] <GuShH_> it's just "cam" lock
[15:52:39] <Einar> Ahh. I thought it was only the base.
[15:52:45] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NOGA-MAGNETIC-INDICATOR-BASE-/331171729801?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1b5f9189
[15:52:47] <zeeshan> ^
[15:53:06] <PetefromTn_> how do you figure it is cam lock?
[15:53:07] <zeeshan> interesting, the fine adjust is at the bottom
[15:53:17] <GuShH_> "has owners marks"
[15:53:20] <PetefromTn_> Looks like a hydro setup to me...
[15:53:34] <zeeshan> pretty sure the one pete posted is hydraulic
[15:53:34] <zeeshan> sec
[15:55:11] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Premium-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-for-Dial-Test-Indicator-Fine-Adjustment-/330965861258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f1a438a
[15:55:20] <PetefromTn_> Thats the other one I was considering.
[15:55:28] <PetefromTn_> also hydraulic.
[15:55:52] <zeeshan> thats the one i got
[15:56:11] <zeeshan> looks better than the noga
[15:56:17] <PetefromTn_> oh you did? how do you like it?
[15:56:20] <zeeshan> it's not a black oxide finish
[15:56:25] <zeeshan> like the noga nonsense
[15:56:39] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i stil havent recieved it yet, thats the one i tried at my friends place and i got sold instantly
[15:56:48] <PetefromTn_> probably anodized will get scratched over time..but who cares.
[15:56:57] <PetefromTn_> its nice then..
[15:57:02] <zeeshan> yes
[15:57:58] <PetefromTn_> the real Nogas are nice to adjust that is for sure.. is the chinese copy easy to adjust and does it allow you to get sorta tight as you get closer to lock or is it kinda abrupt?
[15:58:51] <zeeshan> i havent tried a noga
[15:58:54] <PetefromTn_> I was considering getting that one and their idicator that looks like an interapid.
[15:59:00] <zeeshan> but i didnt have a problem zeroing the indicator with the adjust
[15:59:13] <PetefromTn_> the fine adjust..
[15:59:28] <zeeshan> yes using the fine adjust
[15:59:32] <zeeshan> it didnt overshoot
[15:59:33] <PetefromTn_> or the hydro..
[15:59:36] <zeeshan> if thats what youre asking
[15:59:47] <Deejay> gn8
[15:59:50] <zeeshan> the hydraulic is all floppy till you yank it tight
[15:59:52] <PetefromTn_> no actually I am asking about the hydro.. is it
[16:00:13] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: check this out
[16:00:14] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-Fine-Adjustment-1-Dial-Indicator-001-NEW-/350840363724
[16:00:26] <zeeshan> 2nd picture (guts of the indicator)
[16:00:43] <zeeshan> chinese tools ftw
[16:00:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know but the noga you can get KINDA tight yet still able to move freely so it is not too floppy.kinda
[16:01:01] <zeeshan> no, this this is literally on and off
[16:01:04] <PetefromTn_> I know I saw that one but I already have a bunch of dial indicators.
[16:01:14] <zeeshan> yea but im saying
[16:01:21] <zeeshan> the quality of chinese indicators is perfect.
[16:01:38] <PetefromTn_> I need a .0005 or .0001 DTI to go on it.
[16:02:14] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I know they are not bad for the price. Mine is worn the hell out and I have had it for years but it still works well. I just want that interapid style. easier to use.
[16:02:24] <zeeshan> why is it easier to use
[16:02:30] <zeeshan> a lot of people say that, but i never understood why
[16:03:30] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-060-Range-Horizontal-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0005-/370533561724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564585757c
[16:03:43] <andypugh> zeeshan: The inside looks like nearly every other dial indicator. What is it that you don’t like?
[16:03:48] <PetefromTn_> That angled face and the little pivot on top make it like another joint of freedom.
[16:04:11] <zeeshan> andypugh: i didnt say i didnt like it, i said i dont understand why its beter
[16:04:19] <PetefromTn_> the dial face is smiling at you while you are checking stuff ;)
[16:04:23] <andypugh> And those single-knob bases are really clever, I love them.
[16:05:20] <zeeshan> http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/Images/480/480.711LPSZ.jpg
[16:05:22] <zeeshan> i have one of those
[16:05:30] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTERAPID-312B-1-SWISS-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0005-GRAD-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/141254279932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e36942fc
[16:05:35] <zeeshan> i dont understand what the difference between the starrett last word and interapid is
[16:05:37] <PetefromTn_> Thats the genuine article...
[16:05:42] <zeeshan> they both have that pivot on the top
[16:05:59] <PetefromTn_> Starret last word are nice too...
[16:06:19] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOGA-NogaFlex-Holder-Model-NF1018-/320868745343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab544807f
[16:06:29] <zeeshan> and if you use one of these
[16:06:41] <zeeshan> wouldnt that let you dial in anything you ever wanted?
[16:08:49] <PetefromTn_> they have those at work too but that one does not have the fine adjust...that comes in real handy.
[16:08:57] <zeeshan> ahh
[16:09:40] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-030-Travel-0-0005-Dial-Test-Indicator-Universal-Pro-Magnetic-Base-NEW-/350840996260?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51afc0c1a4
[16:09:48] <PetefromTn_> What the hell is wrong with this picture LOL...
[16:10:01] <zeeshan> 239$???
[16:10:03] <PetefromTn_> that DTI is almost identical to the one I have...
[16:10:09] <PetefromTn_> That must be a misprint...
[16:10:16] <PetefromTn_> Gotta be.
[16:10:24] <zeeshan> says 231 sold
[16:10:24] <zeeshan> lol
[16:10:51] <zeeshan> if you scroll down the page
[16:10:58] <zeeshan> i think whoever was saying the blue one is cam lock might be right..
[16:11:01] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-3D-MINI-UNIVERSAL-MAGNETIC-BASE-HOLDER-030-0005-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-/330965869125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f1a6245
[16:11:09] <zeeshan> cause the blue one it doesnt show as 'hydraulic'
[16:12:34] <PetefromTn_> how the hell does it lock down all three joints then?
[16:13:03] <zeeshan> i'm not sure
[16:14:08] <andypugh> I have about 100 steel 3/16” rivets to install. Does anyone know of other options than a ball-pein hammer? I don’t have any objction to that. except that I can’t necessarily back most of them up.
[16:14:43] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-Fine-Adjustment-1-Dial-Indicator-001-NEW-/350840363724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51afb71acc
[16:14:46] <Noxz> rivet gun?
[16:15:10] <PetefromTn_> That actually is a better deal you get the indicator and the shipping is several bucks less...
[16:15:14] <andypugh> The dial stands have bars with tapered holes in the end. As you pull up the screw it pulls (or pushes) rods down the middle of the arms to lock the other ends.
[16:15:26] <zeeshan> it shows up at 46$ shipping for me
[16:15:27] <zeeshan> :{
[16:15:35] <andypugh> 6
[16:15:37] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Premium-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-for-Dial-Test-Indicator-Fine-Adjustment-/330965861258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f1a438a
[16:15:41] <andypugh> $68 shipping for me.
[16:15:42] <PetefromTn_> than that one...
[16:17:01] <Einar> Please stop linking tools that I can't use. :-( First time I was in USA 1976 they were about to go metric. Pretty slow movers I must say.
[16:17:22] <zeeshan> haha
[16:17:59] <PetefromTn_> apparently it is like $3.00 more for the one with indictor included LOL...
[16:18:09] <PetefromTn_> probably what they paid for it...
[16:18:16] <Noxz> hrrmm, that may be worth it
[16:19:59] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan what is the diameter of the gauge face on the starrett Last word you have?
[16:20:41] <zeeshan> 1.5" or so
[16:20:44] <zeeshan> 1.75" maybe
[16:20:47] <zeeshan> its very small
[16:21:34] <andypugh> Einar: The US very nearly went metric in about 1815, but a British Privateer took the ship with the Frenchman and the 1m stabdard bar (gift from Napoleon) and never happened.
[16:21:40] <Einar> Small means it does not interfere as easily in a crowded space. I use the smallest the most.
[16:22:37] <Einar> You say a *British* privateer took it? And still UK is not metric. :-)
[16:22:58] <PetefromTn_> Actually that is kinda large...
[16:23:36] <andypugh> The UK is metric.
[16:24:03] <andypugh> We use miles and pints for some things, but all engineering is in metric.
[16:24:16] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWISS-TYPE-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0-06-GRADE-0005-/350976415532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b7d3172c
[16:24:23] <PetefromTn_> Thats the one I kinda like.
[16:25:13] <Noxz> any suggestions on floorboards?
[16:25:43] <PetefromTn_> I like carpeted myself ROFL...
[16:26:27] <Noxz> heh x2
[16:27:03] <Einar> andypugh: I like pint. The rest of the imperials you can keep.
[16:27:04] <PetefromTn_> Wish I had a dime for every time I heard someone outside of the US whining about why we don't switch to metric. Personally I use both mostly because I am forced to LOL..
[16:27:26] <PetefromTn_> metric.. Personally I use both LOL
[16:27:48] <PetefromTn_> what the hell?
[16:28:05] <kengu> echoechoecho
[16:28:10] <Einar> That indicator does not matter much actually. I mostly use it to check if out of round and the like.
[16:28:27] <zeeshan> pete i lied
[16:28:41] <Einar> So if it does not move it's fine. In metric or imperial.
[16:28:41] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/QuxcuKI.jpg
[16:28:49] <zeeshan> 1/16 under 1"
[16:29:52] <PetefromTn_> Thats what I thought It looks smaller...Honestly my eyes are not what they were anymore and I like the larger dials.. I also like the black or yellow background dials too..
[16:30:06] <andypugh> Noxz: Floorboards?
[16:30:27] <zeeshan> i dont have a pic of this
[16:30:28] <Noxz> like, a tabletop that can hold the peice your working on in place
[16:30:32] <Noxz> via tslots of holes
[16:30:35] <zeeshan> but do you guys know what a plastic handle with two plastic wheels is for?
[16:30:57] <PetefromTn_> maybe a screen tool?
[16:31:10] <zeeshan> thats exactly what it is
[16:31:13] <zeeshan> what is it for
[16:31:26] <zeeshan> oh
[16:31:27] <PetefromTn_> you use it to push the little rubber stopper in all around the edge.
[16:31:33] <zeeshan> ah
[16:31:44] <Einar> PetefromTN: Get a LVDT indicator. Then you can get a display as big as you like.
[16:31:54] <zeeshan> http://cdn.fiscalgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/screen-repair-tools.jpg
[16:32:00] <zeeshan> mine looks exactly like that brown one
[16:32:03] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah for my blind ass right LOL...
[16:32:05] <zeeshan> not sure what that was doing in the machinist box
[16:32:23] <PetefromTn_> I got one too LOL.
[16:32:29] <PetefromTn_> Looks just like that..
[16:33:15] <andypugh> I am not sure I would want a digital gauge for centering stuffs.
[16:33:20] <PetefromTn_> Honestly those interapids are about the best I have used..
[16:33:40] <andypugh> Noxz: T-slot? Or vacuum?
[16:33:47] <zeeshan> andypugh: they're not that bad
[16:33:54] <Noxz> vacuum? no need for that
[16:33:55] <zeeshan> a lot of good ones have analog bars on em
[16:33:57] <PetefromTn_> They got starrett Mitutoyo, B&S etc at the shop so I get to try em all.
[16:34:17] <Einar> Older LVDT interfaces have moving coil indicators.
[16:34:18] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: so you just like feel of the interapid?
[16:34:36] <zeeshan> like if im buying a tool
[16:34:45] <zeeshan> i gotta justify the cost, 200$ is a lot for a used interapid
[16:35:00] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I like the large dial, I like that it is angled, I like that it pivots, I like that it had the little dovetails all over... And it is a quality unit. the shars will probably not be as nice tho...
[16:35:22] <zeeshan> the mitutoyo tdi has dove taills all over!
[16:35:33] <PetefromTn_> Yeah so does my chinese copy LOL...
[16:36:09] <zeeshan> damn those interapid indicators are expensive
[16:36:43] <zeeshan> i still feel like a lot of this name brand stuff is a "hype"
[16:36:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah they are but they are probably worth it...
[16:36:45] <zeeshan> that people spread
[16:37:05] <PetefromTn_> I will have to settle for the Shars copy I guess....
[16:37:07] <zeeshan> like taiwanese micrometers vs mitutoyo vs starrett
[16:37:24] <zeeshan> taiwanese micrometers work just as good, if not better than the starrett's stupid little locking mechanism
[16:37:48] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4419748558.html Here ya go man...
[16:37:54] <zeeshan> i should start videos on youtube "chinese vs made in usa"
[16:38:08] <PetefromTn_> NICE set there...
[16:38:15] <zeeshan> nice cause its b&s
[16:38:23] <zeeshan> but it prolly works functionally the same as the imperial set
[16:38:23] <zeeshan> er
[16:38:25] <zeeshan> import set
[16:38:43] <PetefromTn_> probably... but that is a great deal. wish I had the cash..
[16:38:59] <PetefromTn_> I shudder to think what those cost new...
[16:39:03] <zeeshan> don't fall for the made in usa vs name brand mess!
[16:39:37] <zeeshan> http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/accusizetools/the-864/EG00-dsh-0912%2C-0--dsh--12%22/Detail
[16:39:39] <zeeshan> win win!
[16:39:41] <PetefromTn_> Well there are USA made things that kick ass man... and then there are things the chinese copy well... It is all relative..
[16:40:08] <zeeshan> those mitutoyo copies are so good
[16:40:24] <PetefromTn_> do you have some?
[16:40:27] <zeeshan> yes
[16:40:47] <zeeshan> i was telling you the other day i sold the starret outside mics i had
[16:40:52] <PetefromTn_> It would be interesting to get some inspection grade standards and check them out...
[16:41:07] <zeeshan> i have some mitutyo inspection grade standards that i've tested them out with
[16:41:17] <zeeshan> i should make a video!
[16:41:29] <zeeshan> but i only have a stupid iphone :{
[16:41:29] <PetefromTn_> Even still they are all adjustable but that only moves the whole scale...
[16:41:56] <zeeshan> tell me one to test
[16:42:00] <PetefromTn_> Yeah they are stupid.. :D
[16:42:21] <zeeshan> 3-4 -> 3.1 3.4 3.6 3.95?
[16:42:49] <PetefromTn_> What grade are your standards?
[16:43:15] <zeeshan> 2
[16:44:27] <zeeshan> i should check
[16:45:11] <PetefromTn_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block Interesting.
[16:45:16] <Noxz> hrm.. I am trying to figure out how to do some t-slots via 80/20 while also having a bit of flat area for support (otherwise it's alot of 80/20
[16:46:03] <zeeshan> according to that wiki they are between inspection grade and calibration grade
[16:46:20] <zeeshan> between A and AA
[16:46:57] <PetefromTn_> They should have a cert in the box that tells you what they are.
[16:47:25] <PetefromTn_> The guys in the shop have workshop grade sets they use to measure all sorts of stuff...
[16:48:17] <PetefromTn_> Even a workshop grade set is quite nice to have. Most of the time the blocks are more precise than you could machine to anyways.
[16:48:42] <PetefromTn_> unless you work in the grinding dept.
[16:55:09] <somenewguy> huh I am shopping for a dial indicator too, launched my Shars on friday when my sleeve turned the machine on by accident...
[16:55:50] <somenewguy> what is the techincal name for the one w/ the cantilevered arm that you use for tramming etc? not a staight plunge like most dial indicators, but a....?
[16:56:37] <Tom_itx> last word
[16:56:43] <somenewguy> borrowing a buddies turlin, but the dovetail on the face side slopes the wrong way and makes it next to impossible to use on my machine, so I guess another shars is in my future
[16:57:39] <zeeshan> i didnt get the certificate
[16:57:47] <zeeshan> but it has the mitutoyo part number on the side
[16:58:53] <zeeshan> pete so i tested out the 3-4 import 3" 3.451 and 3.850 and 3.500
[16:59:03] <zeeshan> and it reads spot on but takes a couple of 'ratchets' to get there
[16:59:06] <zeeshan> like 4-5 ratchets
[16:59:26] <zeeshan> the mitutoyo 3-4 gets there in 2 ratchets
[16:59:29] <somenewguy> not quite what I am currently using, but maybe I should think about getting one of those instead
[16:59:40] <zeeshan> dunno what that's all about..
[16:59:48] <somenewguy> is used starret better than new cheapos?
[17:00:10] <Tom_itx> mine is mitutoyo
[17:01:42] <somenewguy> or mitutoyo, man I am digging these vintage ones on fleabay, they looklike a better setup than a straight replacemetn for my launched one, easier to read for waht I use them for 90% of the time
[17:02:30] <somenewguy> I just always worry about used precision equiptment ya know? but you can't fix junk, well see, i gotta order something asap, gotta give this one back soon
[17:04:21] <somenewguy> not comparing models but mounting styles, do you gys have experience with these two? is one b etter than the other (yes i know the brands are better, I mean dovetail vs swivel)
[17:04:27] <somenewguy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARRETT-LAST-WORD-INDICATOR-/301152914179?_trksid=p2054897.l5660
[17:04:35] <zeeshan> i have that style
[17:04:35] <somenewguy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/300692393741?lpid=82
[17:04:37] <zeeshan> and mitutoyo
[17:05:13] <zeeshan> and the cheapo
[17:05:17] <zeeshan> they all work the same in my opinion
[17:05:18] <zeeshan> lol
[17:05:25] <somenewguy> can't tell if the ball and shaft would make it a million times easier to read without hte machine blocking the dial, or if they are a pita to get into position
[17:05:44] <zeeshan> are you trying to get the spindle concentric with the work piece?
[17:05:51] <somenewguy> I have only ever used the dovetails, would hate to "upgrade" to the other style and discover I need to order a dovetail version to do what I have been doing the whole time lol
[17:06:07] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWISS-TYPE-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0-06-GRADE-0005-/350976415532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b7d3172c
[17:06:23] <somenewguy> cool zeeshan, in that case I'll try and get a used starret set, that arm at the top will make my life much easier
[17:06:57] <PetefromTn_> BBL..
[17:07:21] <somenewguy> mostly tramming the Z axis to the bed and putting the vices in
[17:07:35] <zeeshan> honestly i think anything will work
[17:07:47] <zeeshan> i use a 3/8 round bar that i bent
[17:07:51] <zeeshan> with the last word indicator to trap
[17:07:53] <zeeshan> *tram
[17:08:07] <zeeshan> but you could just as easily tram w/ a regular test dial indicator + nogaflex base
[17:08:25] <zeeshan> http://www.noga.com/prdPics/NF1018_prd_big_picture_1.jpg
[17:08:26] <somenewguy> I should do that
[17:08:26] <somenewguy> rather than mount it flat in the thing and sweep a tiny circle
[17:08:28] <somenewguy> it likes to hop and re-adjust going over the slots
[17:08:42] <zeeshan> if you want a cheaper alternative to the noga
[17:08:44] <zeeshan> you can use this:
[17:09:04] <zeeshan> https://www.shars.com/products/view/1456/Test_Indicator_Holder_Arm_Only
[17:09:05] <somenewguy> I also have a tiny bed, so my life is easy enough to begin with, but what black magick is that noga
[17:10:05] <somenewguy> image still loading on the second one, but I assume its like what I may have
[17:10:27] <somenewguy> hmmm, also interesting
[17:10:32] <somenewguy> thanks for all the input
[17:18:46] <nick__> Is there some oddity to the hal edge detector I'm missing?
[17:19:17] <nick__> I've got a signal that I can net to a pin and make the pin go high and low, but if i net that signal to edge.0.in and the pin to edge.0.out, i don't get a response.
[17:20:16] <nick__> also I've set edge.0.out-width-ns to the max s32 value, so the pulse should be plenty long to observe with hal meter or my LED on the physical pin itself.
[17:27:21] <andypugh> Noxz: You can buy extruded T-slot
[17:27:28] <andypugh> (in table form)
[17:28:00] <Noxz> an hour or two of videogames then back to figuring out these floorboards...
[17:28:48] <andypugh> Noxz: http://www.worldofcnc.com/collections/t-nut-bed-plate
[17:51:21] <nick__> Ok hopefully easier question, why does putting my hm2_6i25.read/write on base-thread cause errors while servo-thread is fine?
[17:51:30] <nick__> wait let me paste error
[17:52:09] <nick__> Ok no copy paste there... but it says function hm2_6i25.read needs FP
[17:56:23] <skunkworks> yes - it needs floating point
[17:57:00] <nick__> skunkworks: How does needing floating point relate to the difference between my two threads?
[17:57:27] <skunkworks> the base thread is a fast thread. it is meant to do software step generation and such.
[17:57:33] <skunkworks> what are you trying to do>
[17:58:17] <nick__> skunkworks: I've got all my fast stuff (stepgen, pwm) on a 6i25. I need to write position-cmd for each axis and velocity-cmd for the pwm into it
[17:58:52] <nick__> I guess now that I think about it my motion functions that generate that stuff are on servo-thread, so there's probably no harm in only updating them on servo-thread huh..
[17:59:01] <nick__> thanks skunkworks
[17:59:35] <nick__> Any idea why my edge detectors aren't doing anything?
[18:00:09] <nick__> Pasting code online now..
[18:00:34] <nick__> http://pastebin.com/Hz1TbvpJ
[18:01:47] <NickParker> Oh, looking at some of kwallace's code it looks like edge probably needs to be addf'd to do anything..
[18:01:48] <andypugh> nick__: The fast thread is not capable of performing floating point maths (actually, the next release will change that, but that’s not the point).
[18:02:02] <NickParker> andypugh: That makes sense, thanks.
[18:02:24] <andypugh> But, you really should not have a base thread with a 6i25. There is no point.
[18:04:23] <NickParker-LCNC> Yeah I just needed to addf my edge functions, those work too now.
[18:04:40] <andypugh> Just remove all referencs to the base thread unless you are actually needing it. (It is possible to use software stepgens etc with Mesa cards, there is a base-thread compatible “read-gpio” and “write-gpio” function in hm2 that means that a Mesa card can be at least as good as a parport for software-generated signals etc, but it is rarely used.
[18:05:29] <NickParker-LCNC> andypugh I think I need base-thread for my on-motherboard parport
[18:05:57] <NickParker-LCNC> I'm putting my endstops and eventually toolchanger through it. Toolchanger doesn't need any speed but endstops could use it for repeatability I imagine.
[18:06:30] <andypugh> NickParker-LCNC: The reason that the edge isn’t working is that you have no line that “addf”-s the edge detector to a thread.
[18:07:41] <NickParker-LCNC> andypugh I've just realized that from reading some of kwallace's hal stuff posted on his website.
[18:07:53] <NickParker-LCNC> Thanks for putting in the effort to read my code though.
[18:08:10] <andypugh> I have never forgotten to addf a function. Honest :-)
[18:08:50] <NickParker-LCNC> I don't know why, but I assumed edge and stuff like it in hal just worked. Making the programmer addf everything is a nice convention.
[18:09:06] <NickParker-LCNC> Makes the whole thing more controllable and all
[18:11:36] <andypugh> Things run in the exact sequence they are addf-ed in. Give some thought to what order you want things to happen in. Nothing should run before it has inputs, and things should run before anyhting that uses their output.
[18:12:46] <andypugh> Actually, you can add modifiers to addf to force an execution order, if you really need to. But that is only usually necessary when there are multiple HAL files.
[18:17:27] <NickParker-LCNC> andypugh: I'll make sure I get all that in order then.
[18:18:04] <NickParker-LCNC> All I've got left is checking that and endstops then I'm ready to wire it up and see what happens
[18:25:45] <CaptHindsight> is there any way to use M62-M65 synched with motion only based on encoder position or steps? Say a M64 every 4 steps or 8 encoder counts and a corresponding off.
[18:41:13] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: that would probaby be doable in hal
[18:41:28] <skunkworks> depending on how fast you want
[18:44:08] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: No. G-code knows nothing about encoders.
[18:44:43] <andypugh> It’s trivial to pulse an IO pin in synch with an encoder count.
[18:45:13] <andypugh> But not looped through G-code.
[18:45:30] <andypugh> Can you explain what you are trying to do?
[18:58:17] <MrHindsight> I'd like to control digital IO's in real time based on position and what the G-code is currently doing. Say I need a valve to turn on for some number of encoder counts or steps
[19:00:20] <MrHindsight> I'd like to be able to have it turn on from at the same time some motion starts to some delay based on position and turn off once again by position. The valve may turn on and off several times or only one time during a movement.
[19:03:40] <MrHindsight> say during a G1, G2 or G3, the valve may turn on and off once or several times, it could be based on counts or steps. For example...
[19:04:45] <MrHindsight> G1 (something) then 0-100 counts a IO flips state, then 1-100 counts it changes state again
[19:04:52] <pcw_home> I've done some FPGA code that does that (play out a data FIFO with enc counts)
[19:05:09] <MrHindsight> I'd like to set the number of counts
[19:05:35] <MrHindsight> I can see using counters in the FPGA
[19:06:14] <pcw_home> if the base thread is fast enough you could do it with the software encoder and a comp
[19:06:35] <MrHindsight> it's how I do it now with a separate FPGA, but I'd like to do it all with one FPGA and only with Linuxcnc
[19:07:19] <MrHindsight> the IO is always synched to the encoder counts or steps
[19:07:29] <pcw_home> either a FIFO or a compare/trigger gen
[19:07:31] <MrHindsight> it's never just in the ballpark
[19:08:15] <pcw_home> so the g code sets up the upcoming trigger point fifo
[19:08:54] <pcw_home> each trigger point has an attached "op" field that controls the I/O
[19:09:14] <MrHindsight> yeah, since the machine might be moving when the valve is not being used, it's not just based on when it gets counts or steps
[19:10:51] <MrHindsight> as a working example say you are controlling a laser engraver and you want to print dotted or dashed lines vs continuous segments
[19:11:00] <pcw_home> for general "painting" apps a FIFO of pure data is probably better
[19:11:09] <andypugh> I think you can do it with HAL. Use a dif on positon and integrate with a looped-back sum2. That gives you a monotonically increasing position. Scale that and convert to int and then do the action based on an edge detector looking at the lowest order bit (choose the scale up the chain to set the frequency).
[19:11:55] <andypugh> That does need bitwise maths in HAL, though, but I added that to 2.5 recently so it should filter through soon.
[19:12:29] <pcw_home> or just a rate multiplier
[19:12:48] <andypugh> MrHindsight: Sounds like graster: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rastering_With_A_Laser
[19:13:14] <andypugh> Though that always seemed like a really hard way to solve something that should be simple.
[19:13:23] <MrHindsight> I'll play with this using the 6i25 and also test that config for the Leadshine 3660
[19:18:57] <MrHindsight> http://psha.org.ru/debian/ the psha repo is back up!
[19:28:31] <somenewguy_bu> what are your guys thoughts on the std ngcgui samples in linuxCNC? I am writing my own library as I need them, and most are pretty generic. I am going to post a link in the forum tonight, but do you think its worth trying to incorperate them into the main repo?
[19:29:19] <somenewguy_bu> personally I'd rather keep mine seperate and not have to worry about conforming to proper use of a real repo and just let ppl pull and contribute to my repo, but otoh fragmentation is what is always killing open projects
[19:31:00] <MrHindsight> somenewguy: I'd post this question on the mail list
[19:32:28] <somenewguy_bu> ok. how lively is the mail list? I subscribed recenetly and have got naught but confirmation, so I think I botched something lol
[19:33:34] <Noxz> alright, back to the floorboards...
[19:34:28] <Noxz> I'm essentially looking for either some 80/20 that will work, or something that I can bolt ontop of it (the orirignal plan was a sheet/plate ontop of some, maybe with some holes drilled in)
[19:35:52] <andypugh> Noxz: Did you see my link?
[19:36:02] <Noxz> Yes
[19:36:14] <Noxz> it's just in GBP not USD ;)
[19:36:18] <andypugh> And in what way was that not perfect?
[19:36:40] <andypugh> Yes. But I imagine the stuff is also on sale in the US>
[19:37:00] <Noxz> yeah, something similar..
[19:37:26] <Noxz> maybe something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-20-Inc-T-Slot-25mm-x-12-5mm-Aluminum-Extrusion-25-Series-25-2514-x-1220mm-N-/370806724134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5655cd9626
[19:37:57] <Noxz> lined up next to one another?
[19:38:25] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-Extruded-Aluminum-T-Slot-Table-Top-6-W-X-12-L-/291073721288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c55883c8
[19:38:29] <MrHindsight> somenewguy: over 100 messages a week, sometimes >200
[19:39:30] <humble_sea_bass> Noxz: that extrusion shape looks sub-optimal
[19:39:52] <Noxz> the tabletop in the size I want is a decent $420: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-Extruded-Aluminum-T-Slot-Table-surface-3-W-x-4-L-/290747212696?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b1e26398
[19:40:25] <humble_sea_bass> $420 bux? I'll take that as a sign. get it
[19:40:45] <Noxz> I guess it'snot too outrageous of a price..
[19:40:57] <Noxz> I wonder if I can build my own, though
[19:41:23] <humble_sea_bass> you always can, trade money for time etc etc
[19:41:48] <humble_sea_bass> that and being blessed with knowing where to get things for a decent pric3e
[19:41:56] <Noxz> the project has been delayed for quite some time already....
[19:42:52] <MrHindsight> Noxz: that profile is for decorative uses and machine guards, not structure
[19:43:25] <Noxz> which profile?
[19:43:36] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-20-Inc-T-Slot-25mm-x-12-5mm-Aluminum-Extrusion-25-Series-25-2514-x-1220mm-N-/370806724134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5655cd9626
[19:43:40] <humble_sea_bass> work holding is one of those unsexy steps that has been solved several times over
[19:43:45] <Noxz> the 80/20
[19:44:24] <andypugh> MrHindsight: His second option is being sold as a router table profile.
[19:45:06] <Noxz> hah, just read shipping on that, $108, so it bumps it up to nearly $550.. again, worth it for the time and such
[19:45:10] <andypugh> looks like T-slots held down by U-shapes.
[19:45:38] <andypugh> I think I have seen cheaper, but that does look usefuly modular.
[19:46:08] <MrHindsight> I need to start importing steel t-slot tables
[19:46:32] <humble_sea_bass> t-slot emporium
[19:46:55] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/43-5-x-20-x-1-5-Steel-Welding-5-T-Slotted-Table-Cast-iron-Layout-Plate-slots-/131153753213?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e895f747d
[19:47:22] <XXCoder> 1220 mm long surface mount 8020
[19:47:23] <XXCoder> not bad
[19:49:04] <humble_sea_bass> picture 5 for the t slot is gold
[19:49:25] <MrHindsight> lol
[19:49:27] <humble_sea_bass> fuck it, we don't even have a clean piece of paper to draft the profile dims on
[19:50:02] <Noxz> atleast he didnt draw it in black
[19:50:20] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/42-x-20-T-SLOTTED-STEEL-TABLE-Cast-Iron-Coolant-Type-Layout-Fixture-Welding-/131045003204?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e82e40fc4
[19:51:46] <LatheBuilder> Hello, starting in on my first retrofit. Have been lurking for ~4 years reading the mailing list. Just checking in to get acquainted. (First time irc user, semi experienced linux user)
[19:52:02] <MrHindsight> LatheBuilder: welcome
[19:52:06] <Tom_itx> 4 years!
[19:52:07] <Noxz> 'coolant type' that means what precisly?
[19:52:10] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:52:12] <humble_sea_bass> LatheBuilder: fuck man, 4 years
[19:52:15] <humble_sea_bass> that's dedication
[19:52:37] <LatheBuilder> ya, I take too long to read up on everything before I start
[19:52:43] <LatheBuilder> !
[19:52:49] <andypugh> What are you retrofitting?
[19:52:58] <Tom_itx> i sorta have been too... since it was just released from a Govt project
[19:52:59] <LatheBuilder> VMC,
[19:53:00] <XXCoder> hguessing from nick, lathe?
[19:53:25] <MrHindsight> too obvious
[19:53:50] <andypugh> My next retrofit will probably be a lathe.
[19:53:51] <LatheBuilder> 3 axis, vfd spindle, drawbar, oiler, coolant. Mesa 5i25 + 7i77. keeping existing servos/drives/vfd
[19:54:10] <andypugh> Sounds like at least a week’s work :-)
[19:54:17] <LatheBuilder> 0-10vdc signals for axis' and vfd control
[19:54:44] <LatheBuilder> grin. building my rpc took easily 10 times longer than it should have
[19:54:54] <humble_sea_bass> i was actually feeling 10 kinds of feelings about the 7i77 today and how I should befriend it
[19:55:05] <MrHindsight> Noxz: are you anywhere near grand rapids mi?
[19:55:32] <andypugh> Time I climbed the wooden hills. See ye tomorrow.
[19:55:54] <Noxz> MrHindsight: I used to live in Ohio.. but moved out to California (silicon valley) a year ago
[19:56:16] <humble_sea_bass> Noxz: check http://www.govliquidation.com/
[19:56:31] <humble_sea_bass> there are several military bases in the area that are closing
[19:56:40] <LatheBuilder> Noxz >> how do you like the valley?
[19:56:41] <humble_sea_bass> and have great stuff for sale
[19:56:57] <Noxz> LatheBuilder: weather is great ;)
[19:57:48] <LatheBuilder> that's what I hear! what interests me more about the area is the number of similar minded people. Lots of enthusiasts in sv?
[19:58:04] <Noxz> indeed
[19:58:28] <Noxz> but, it's a little strange that everyone you bump into is NOT in the tech industry
[19:58:41] <Noxz> once you get past that, it's just an abnormal amount, but still almost rare
[19:58:42] <LatheBuilder> percentage that big?
[19:58:54] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fixture-Jig-Plate-/161256197651
[19:59:24] <humble_sea_bass> that looks like mechanical mine sweeper
[20:00:12] <Noxz> what if I laid out a bumch of 80/20 underneath a flat panel, and had some predrilled holes for holding shit
[20:00:56] <LatheBuilder> sry, don't have the chat history. What are you building Noxz/
[20:01:02] <humble_sea_bass> you can 8020 it, but rigidity will be sub optimal
[20:02:13] <Noxz> LatheBuilder: a mill, with 80/20 as the structure.. I am trying to figure out the floorboard situation
[20:02:57] <LatheBuilder> have a weight limit? IE: top floor of an apartment vs 12" concrete floor under you
[20:03:16] <Noxz> yeah, top floor..
[20:03:32] <Noxz> but it's also a loft, so I have two stories.. and I may put the mill upstairs (bedroom) because fo space situation
[20:03:36] <MrHindsight> maybe granite epoxy T-slot tables
[20:03:48] <Noxz> although I do not want metal fillings near where I sleep
[20:03:52] <humble_sea_bass> they have those?
[20:04:28] <MrHindsight> DIY wouldn't be too difficult, the most difficult would be surfacing the top after cure
[20:04:44] <Noxz> planing it?
[20:04:48] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCMillEpoxyFill.htm
[20:04:52] <LatheBuilder> I built an horizontal mill out of large structural tube a while back. Kept it in the living room because the chips were mean. Lathe was in the bedroom because space and kinder chips...
[20:04:55] <humble_sea_bass> west systems to the rescue
[20:05:00] <MrHindsight> but maybe doing it the cylinder head on glass with sandpaper way
[20:05:38] <MrHindsight> west is too expensive, epoxy is only ~$4/lb in bulk
[20:06:02] <MrHindsight> 1L = ~1Kg
[20:06:24] <Noxz> I guess I should think about collant too?
[20:06:32] <Noxz> that may dictate how the table is put together
[20:06:45] <MrHindsight> but the composite is usually a 20% epoxy to 80% aggregate
[20:07:05] <LatheBuilder> how about prebuilt xy table from enco as base? or are you wanting more of a cnc router type layout? big flat bed
[20:07:23] <Noxz> yeah, more for routing
[20:08:04] <MrHindsight> maybe just a steel t-slot top with epoxy granite base molded into it DIY
[20:08:28] <MrHindsight> then aluminum would work as well
[20:08:38] <LatheBuilder> slat construction might be worth your time looking at. think built-up I-beams layed side by side.
[20:09:07] <MrHindsight> I should build one as an example and show the flexural strength
[20:09:18] <LatheBuilder> what's available surplus in the area? Imagine there should be lots for the picking
[20:11:03] <Noxz> I wish onlinemetals.com had t slot
[20:11:10] <humble_sea_bass> i told him to get his ass over to govliquidation.com since there are lots of bases in cali
[20:11:18] <somenewguy_bu> is that what thsoe welding tables go for? man if my fly by night welding hadn't dried up, I woulda bought one of those ages ago
[20:11:18] <humble_sea_bass> in the SF area
[20:11:23] <MrHindsight> http://www.quietelectronics.com/Missouri-/New-/Cnc-router-aluminum-t-slot-table-top-image_photos.jpg and cast this into epoxy granite
[20:12:06] <Noxz> I'm already going to be using plenty of htese: http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-20-Inc-T-Slot-25mm-x-75mm-Aluminum-Extrusion-25-Series-25-2576-x-1220mm-N-/400477747218?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3e557812
[20:12:43] <humble_sea_bass> CaptHindsight: West Systems is crazy expensive, but available in midtown manhattan. Any thoughts on http://www.uscomposites.com/
[20:12:50] <MrHindsight> Noxz: those flex quite a but in the 25mm direction
[20:12:56] <LatheBuilder> instead of planing after cure, how about individual "T"'s adjustable with grub screws? Have built machines too big to fit on a mill table that way. True up your surface with many adjustment screws after casting the base.
[20:12:57] <XXCoder> humble_sea_bass: interesting link
[20:12:58] <Noxz> would require ~12 or so for a 36" wide structure
[20:13:15] <Noxz> $325 plus some combined shipping
[20:13:18] <MrHindsight> humble_sea_bass: I buy it by the 200kg drum
[20:13:46] <humble_sea_bass> pfft never needed more than a gallon at a time so we're working at different scales here
[20:14:00] <MrHindsight> well I actually buy the components by the drum and mix my own
[20:14:22] <LatheBuilder> MrHindsight >> boatbuilder or aerospace?
[20:15:05] <humble_sea_bass> Narcotrafficking submarine builder
[20:15:06] <MrHindsight> I formulate photopolymers and resins for inks, coatings, 3dp, etc etc
[20:15:34] <MrHindsight> http://www.uscomposites.com/ is $75/gal
[20:16:01] <LatheBuilder> cool. been following the liquid resin 3dp scene closely.
[20:16:02] <MrHindsight> a gal is ~12 lbs so not too far from $50 cost
[20:16:02] <Noxz> MrHindsight: anything with PTFE in it? I'm a fan of that stuff
[20:16:44] <LatheBuilder> high speed converting operations with uv cure a big slice of your biz?
[20:16:58] <MrHindsight> Noxz: all kinds of formulations, carbon fiber, ptfe, silicas, metals, whatever
[20:17:32] <Noxz> I used to be a mechanic at a bicycle shop too.. so plenty of carbon fiber (final product) have I seen
[20:17:33] <MrHindsight> mostly additive manufacturing now
[20:17:49] <MrHindsight> UV or visible light cured
[20:17:57] <humble_sea_bass> I used to silk screen back in the day, there are surprisingly few ink/epoxy manufacturers for tha biz
[20:18:27] <MrHindsight> even resins for repairing broken sewers and pipes
[20:18:49] <Noxz> hrrrm
[20:18:54] <MrHindsight> yeah, very proprietary
[20:19:14] <MrHindsight> prepreg wrapped inflatable bladders
[20:19:34] <MrHindsight> stuff them into a broken pipe, UV cure, good as new for 40 years
[20:20:26] <Noxz> awesome
[20:20:53] <LatheBuilder> very clever. I'd like to build a shop that way - collapsible geodesic dome with prepreg cloth covering. Inflate and cure...skylights for everyone!
[20:21:12] <humble_sea_bass> my college senior design project was based on polymer impregnated vectran
[20:21:13] <Noxz> I want a tree house
[20:21:25] <LatheBuilder> been following the b9creator?
[20:21:33] <humble_sea_bass> also, this http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-blows-inflatable-subway-plug-south-ferry-stop-article-1.1345322
[20:21:54] <somenewguy_bu> magic, I saw a cement tent built like u said lathebuilder
[20:22:14] <MrHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UXthJMd4gg
[20:22:27] <somenewguy_bu> pump some kind of impregnated bladder of cloth and cement w/ water, and it inflates into a massive freakin tent, door alreadybuilt in
[20:22:35] <LatheBuilder> that's what made me think of this. =)
[20:23:01] <humble_sea_bass> LatheBuilder: that was actually close to what my project for school was, we did it in conjunction with Nattic Army base or whatecver
[20:23:15] <humble_sea_bass> they are the ones who handle logistics
[20:23:23] <LatheBuilder> sea bass >> does vectran wet out pretty ywell?
[20:24:45] <humble_sea_bass> not really, it is actually annoying as hell to work with
[20:24:55] <LatheBuilder> spendy too?
[20:25:21] <humble_sea_bass> Natic Army base provided the material so we were like "yeah send more"
[20:27:02] <LatheBuilder> grin. on the topic of Noxz's build, what do you think the cheapest suitable base construction material is?
[20:27:15] <humble_sea_bass> http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Lowry-Fogelman_1-29-14/Lowry-Fogelman_1-29-14.pdf
[20:27:39] <LatheBuilder> reading
[20:28:29] <Tom_itx> brrr... cold front definitely moved through. Went from 82F this afternoon to 39F currently
[20:28:55] <LatheBuilder> wherabouts tom_itx?
[20:29:03] <MrHindsight> stronger than steel but not puncture resistant
[20:29:06] <Tom_itx> ks
[20:29:40] <LatheBuilder> I'm in nebraska, been raining here all day.
[20:30:02] <Tom_itx> we got some but it soaked in and you can't tell it even rained
[20:30:22] <MrHindsight> heh 63F today low of 22F tomorrow
[20:31:19] <LatheBuilder> are those beams as light as they look humble_sea_bass?
[20:31:47] <humble_sea_bass> they are pretty light for their volume
[20:32:32] <humble_sea_bass> it is like dealing with big big moving blankets
[20:39:11] <Noxz> so, lining up several 80/20s followed by some granite/epoxy mix undeneath?
[20:39:40] <MrHindsight> that will do it
[20:39:52] <humble_sea_bass> square is key
[20:39:56] <Noxz> I can get the table for ~$300 or so
[20:40:14] <LatheBuilder> have seen cmm bases built with granite/epoxy. can be plenty strong
[20:40:43] <Noxz> and after the epoxy, it's then waterproof, for coolant?
[20:40:56] <MrHindsight> granite epoxy machine base
[20:41:00] <Noxz> not that I require coolant jsut yet, but htinking for the future
[20:41:37] <MrHindsight> http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/de1f935da0a0e8b2c31081342c3aece807fe7f9c2e385e2e8986c1baf40bf1c36g.jpg
[20:41:39] <LatheBuilder> think ducting and spash guards. particularly for router speeds tooling will throw chips and coolant everywhere
[20:42:31] <LatheBuilder> (in addition to base design)
[20:43:11] <Noxz> hmm
[20:43:43] <MrHindsight> http://www.newport.com/Granite-Optical-Structures/139776/1033/info.aspx
[20:43:56] <LatheBuilder> even if you only use mist coolant, chip containment is a thing. Does not have to be a big deal though
[20:44:01] <MrHindsight> http://assets.newport.com/web600w-EN/images/1146727.jpg
[20:44:51] <Noxz> neat
[20:45:10] <MrHindsight> http://www.q-sys.eu/images/mechanical%20bearing%206.jpg
[20:45:30] <LatheBuilder> extensive discussion here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/epoxy-granite/38800-index-epoxy-granite-machine-bases-thread.html
[20:45:51] <MrHindsight> http://www.aerotech.com/media/104470/ags15000_438x320-fit-ffffff.jpg
[20:46:31] <LatheBuilder> what total footprint noxz?
[20:46:49] <Noxz> the thicker the better?
[20:47:24] <MrHindsight> yes
[20:47:53] <MrHindsight> but at $10/L it will get pricey for many
[20:48:06] <Noxz> I can see that
[20:48:34] <MrHindsight> well $10/L for the resin, the granite is cheap
[20:48:51] <Noxz> sure
[20:49:02] <MrHindsight> figure 5:1 aggregate to resin
[20:49:36] <MrHindsight> or 4:1
[20:50:21] <MrHindsight> Home Depot sells polyester resin for $36/Gal
[20:51:37] <pcw_home> Do people still make plastic grapes with that stuff?
[20:53:01] <LatheBuilder> pcw_home Peter Wallace of Mesa?
[20:53:01] <Noxz> anal beads?
[20:53:17] <Noxz> I fregin'ant belevie theres dildos on GroupOn
[20:54:18] <LatheBuilder> first time on iirc, looking for a pointer for getting through first setup on 5i25 with lcnc 2.5.3
[20:55:28] <LatheBuilder> seems to be something i am missing. Am I meant to run through pncconf with, say, a 5i20 selected and then edit? reading through the documentation for it
[20:57:25] <skunkworks> LatheBuilder: steppers or servos?
[20:57:52] <LatheBuilder> servos. 0-10v dc for 3 axis, same for vfd
[20:58:20] <MrHindsight> pcw_home: did they used to?
[20:58:21] <pcw_home> until 2.6 comes out, you need to download the 5i25 xml files:
[20:58:23] <pcw_home> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/39-pncconf/21670-5i25-firmware-xml-files-for-pncconf
[20:58:37] <LatheBuilder> using a 5i25/7i77. I understand field power has to be applied for outputs to appear
[20:58:59] <LatheBuilder> I could switch to 2.6, is it stable enough to use?
[20:59:03] <pcw_home> for the digital (field) I/O yes
[20:59:18] <pcw_home> in any case you probably want the latest pncconf
[21:00:07] <MrHindsight> http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=14217 Epoxy Granite (EG) The cheap and easy way... I hope.
[21:00:13] <skunkworks> if it where me - I would take a hm2-servo sample config and change it to run the 5i25..
[21:00:25] <pcw_home> or just start with one of the example configs and learn HAL along the way...
[21:00:45] <pcw_home> Ha! we said about the same thing...
[21:01:03] <skunkworks> :)
[21:02:10] <LatheBuilder> I'll need to learn hal soon regardless. Intending to use this as a 3dprinting testbed. LCNC looks like an easy winner for flexibility to the enthusiast user.
[21:02:52] <LatheBuilder> is the pcnconf in 2.5.3 latest, or a separate update required?
[21:08:39] <pcw_home> pretty sure its not the latest
[21:11:13] <LatheBuilder> switching to 2.6 or master now then. I the consensus that 2.6 is stable enough for cautious use?
[21:11:49] <Noxz> what's the purpose of having multiple cavaities/sections for the epoxy+granite versus one big pool?
[21:15:35] <LatheBuilder> noxz: strategic placement for material where it is needed perhaps
[21:17:46] <Noxz> I have a new sketchup.. still working on it a little..
[21:21:40] <LatheBuilder> switching to 2.6 now. Reading the thread you linked. Thanks pcw_home!
[21:32:13] <cradek> 2.5.4 should be released in a few days
[21:32:30] <cradek> we're waiting on some pncconf changes
[21:34:54] <shaun413_> Hello all
[21:37:50] <LatheBuilder> hi shaun
[21:38:35] <shaun413_> You build lathes?
[21:39:40] <LatheBuilder> I did once. I design automation hardware for a living. You?
[21:40:01] <LatheBuilder> pleased to meet you btw
[21:40:15] <shaun413_> You too
[21:40:24] <shaun413_> No. I'm just getting started
[21:40:31] <shaun413_> Trying to find a cheap lathe
[21:40:42] <shaun413_> Thats not too big
[21:40:47] <zeeshan> shaun413_: where are you
[21:40:50] <shaun413_> Nj
[21:40:54] <zeeshan> oh cmon man
[21:40:59] <shaun413_> ?
[21:41:00] <LatheBuilder> what part of the world do you live in? Nebraska
[21:41:03] <zeeshan> you're in usa, you can easily find a decent lathe for cheap.
[21:41:09] <jdh> find em one.
[21:41:11] <jdh> err... me.
[21:41:17] <zeeshan> my friend lives in stockholm, nj
[21:41:24] <zeeshan> and shows me what he finds on craigslist :P
[21:41:25] <shaun413_> Hmmm
[21:41:29] <shaun413_> Well
[21:41:33] <shaun413_> I couldn't find much
[21:41:43] <shaun413_> And I really don't know what I'm looking for...
[21:41:49] <zeeshan> shaun413_: all the good deals will sell in <2 hours
[21:41:49] <LatheBuilder> first machine tool?
[21:41:53] <zeeshan> so you won't even see it pop up
[21:41:57] <zeeshan> unless you constantly monitor
[21:41:57] <shaun413_> Yes
[21:42:07] <shaun413_> First
[21:42:15] <zeeshan> best is have 800$ ready
[21:42:19] <zeeshan> and you can get yourself a very nice lathe
[21:42:30] <shaun413_> Hm
[21:42:39] <shaun413_> What to look for
[21:42:42] <LatheBuilder> I like the harbor freight 7 x 10 for learning, but it is easy to outgrow. space constraints?
[21:42:47] <zeeshan> look for key words like
[21:42:59] <zeeshan> 'lathe' 'southbend' 'myford'
[21:42:59] <shaun413_> That's about the max size 7x15 or so
[21:42:59] <zeeshan> etc
[21:43:07] <zeeshan> there are some tiny myford lathes
[21:43:07] <jdh> I got one of craigslist for $200, still in teh grease
[21:43:15] <zeeshan> jdh haha
[21:43:17] <zeeshan> what'd you search for?
[21:43:18] <LatheBuilder> nice find jdh
[21:43:19] <zeeshan> help shaun out
[21:43:31] <zeeshan> i got my 9x36 for 750$
[21:43:37] <shaun413_> Hm
[21:43:41] <zeeshan> same model sells for 3699 at busybee.ca
[21:43:46] <zeeshan> only thing wrong with it was the contactor
[21:43:49] <LatheBuilder> the harbor freight 7 x 14 is nice for its size/cost
[21:44:00] <zeeshan> the ad was literallyup for 30 minutes
[21:44:02] <zeeshan> before i snagged it :D
[21:44:02] <shaun413_> Really?
[21:44:20] <shaun413_> Everyone tells me to buy an old one
[21:44:24] <shaun413_> Not hf
[21:44:47] <LatheBuilder> my first lathe was a 7 x 10 from hf. Still use it today even though it is the smallest thing in my shop
[21:45:02] <zeeshan> shaun413_: hf lathes are prefectly fine
[21:45:04] <shaun413_> Hhm
[21:45:06] <zeeshan> most people are pro_ USA
[21:45:07] <shaun413_> Rally???
[21:45:14] <shaun413_> Yeah
[21:45:19] <zeeshan> my 9x36 chinese lathe is perfectly fine.
[21:45:24] <zeeshan> look at halligan's videos on youtube.
[21:45:26] <shaun413_> Harbor freight lathes aren't crap.
[21:45:28] <shaun413_> ?
[21:45:33] <zeeshan> he buys both usa made and chinese made
[21:45:51] <zeeshan> i'm assuming you're buy this for a hobbyt
[21:45:54] <zeeshan> they're not crap for that purpose
[21:46:02] <shaun413_> I see
[21:46:14] <LatheBuilder> neighbor bought an old south bend. paid way to much for it but he had to have a "lathe". ways worn out, drive in bad shape, no tooling. it was his first machine tool too, has not used it yet
[21:46:20] <shaun413_> I'm using it to make components for something I'm selling
[21:46:50] <shaun413_> Lathebuilder that's exactly what I'm worried about
[21:47:09] <shaun413_> Lathebuilder is there anything better than HF for the size
[21:47:19] <shaun413_> Like little machine shop
[21:47:50] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/hamilton/metal-lathes/582984294?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[21:47:52] <zeeshan> this is another small lathe
[21:47:55] <zeeshan> logan lathe
[21:48:04] <zeeshan> $1300 in canada means you can buy that prolly for 700 in the states
[21:48:28] <shaun413_> Hm
[21:48:31] <zeeshan> the other chinese lathe
[21:48:34] <zeeshan> in white he's selling for 750
[21:48:42] <shaun413_> Yeah
[21:48:48] <zeeshan> but note it has no ability to thread stuff
[21:48:53] <zeeshan> if you're trying to convert to cnc, thats perfect
[21:48:56] <shaun413_> Ah:/
[21:49:06] <shaun413_> I'd need threading
[21:49:11] <LatheBuilder> for the size, i don't think so. HF lathe is made by seig, many others import rebranded versions. Probably the greatest numbers of the 7x sizes around means lots of inexpensive accessories available. collets, toolposts, etc.
[21:49:30] <shaun413_> I see...
[21:49:54] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/hamilton/small-metal-lathe/582932114?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[21:49:55] <zeeshan> another lathe
[21:49:57] <zeeshan> 'atlas'
[21:50:01] <zeeshan> but again, no threading i think.
[21:50:08] <shaun413_> Better than sherline or such?
[21:50:09] <zeeshan> im posting this so you can get keywords
[21:50:15] <zeeshan> 10000000x better than sherline
[21:50:18] <zeeshan> sherline is a pansy little lathe
[21:50:22] <zeeshan> thats mean for tiny model engines
[21:50:23] <shaun413_> I mean hf
[21:50:26] <zeeshan> *meant
[21:50:29] <LatheBuilder> thing to know on the hf is not a very powerfull spindle. hands down better than a sherline or a taig
[21:50:36] <shaun413_> Really
[21:50:38] <shaun413_> Hmmm
[21:50:42] <LatheBuilder> though
[21:50:48] <shaun413_> Sherline is more expensive
[21:51:02] <zeeshan> i think sherline is more expensive because of the name
[21:51:06] <shaun413_> I sew
[21:51:17] <zeeshan> and one thing i notice about sherline is you don't get a lot of accessories with it
[21:51:24] <shaun413_> Yeah
[21:51:30] <LatheBuilder> target market for sherline seems to be retired guys who want to occupy their time making tiny models.
[21:51:40] <shaun413_> Yeah
[21:51:40] <zeeshan> like last time i checked, you get things like a 4jaw, 3jaw, steady rest, follower rest
[21:51:45] <zeeshan> included with your hf lathe
[21:51:51] <shaun413_> Hmm
[21:51:55] <shaun413_> Nice
[21:52:06] <LatheBuilder> what size parts do you need to make?
[21:52:06] <zeeshan> if you buy those separately, that can by themself cost 500$
[21:52:10] <shaun413_> Its cheap too
[21:52:21] <shaun413_> Small parts
[21:52:28] <shaun413_> No more an 8 inches or so
[21:52:37] <shaun413_> Long
[21:52:48] <LatheBuilder> small to you may not be small to the lathe we are talking about.
[21:53:03] <shaun413_> I want it to try watchmaking too
[21:53:08] <LatheBuilder> 8 inhces lg by what diameter?
[21:53:14] <shaun413_> 3 maybe
[21:53:32] <LatheBuilder> material?
[21:53:40] <shaun413_> Alum steel brass
[21:53:43] <shaun413_> Plastic
[21:54:24] <LatheBuilder> id threaded both ends?
[21:54:34] <shaun413_> Possibly
[21:54:43] <skunkworks> find a nice emco trainer...
[21:54:52] <shaun413_> ?
[21:55:06] <LatheBuilder> emco is a brand.
[21:55:16] <shaun413_> Hm
[21:56:03] <LatheBuilder> have a link to pics of what you sell?
[21:56:11] <shaun413_> I don't yet
[21:56:47] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_LxyosF2yc
[21:57:12] <zeeshan> skunkworks: fancy
[21:57:20] <zeeshan> sure as hell beats using a dial!
[21:57:27] <skunkworks> sure does!
[21:57:37] <zeeshan> skunkworks: can you know break the sync
[21:57:42] <moorbo> evening
[21:57:45] <zeeshan> when the tool returns to the initial position?
[21:57:46] <moorbo> or morning...
[21:57:46] <LatheBuilder> what i am getting at is: the parts you need to run drive what you "need" in a lathe. If the primary purpose is getting into machining, you can't go wrong with a 7 x 14. If you need to make parts to justify cost, that is something else
[21:57:49] <moorbo> whatever in the internet you are.
[21:58:22] <skunkworks> zeeshan: ?
[21:58:34] <zeeshan> when the spindle goes to the beginning of the thread
[21:58:37] <zeeshan> er
[21:58:47] <zeeshan> the carriage goes to the beginning of the thread, its syncronized with the spindle still
[21:58:54] <zeeshan> can you not speed that up somehow
[21:59:16] <toastyde1th> ?
[21:59:18] <shaun413_> So
[21:59:20] <LatheBuilder> limiter is probably spindle horsepower
[21:59:24] <shaun413_> You all recommend a hf
[21:59:27] <moorbo> shaun413_: stiil looking for a lathe?
[21:59:30] <LatheBuilder> nice vid btw skunkworks
[21:59:37] <shaun413_> Yes moorbo
[21:59:50] <skunkworks> that is about the limit of that machine - using the original electronics... 39ipm iirc
[21:59:56] <zeeshan> ah
[22:01:08] <skunkworks> 30ipm
[22:01:11] <moorbo> shaun413_: I'm still trying to decide if I want the p5 ;p
[22:01:14] <skunkworks> according the the video
[22:01:29] <shaun413_> ???
[22:01:35] <toastyde1th> something that is 3" in diameter and 8" long is going to be really, really cramped on a 7x14
[22:01:50] <LatheBuilder> agreed.
[22:01:54] <shaun413_> Moorbo people seem to think I should get a hf
[22:02:00] <moorbo> shaun413_: I'd agree
[22:02:06] <shaun413_> Rally???
[22:02:08] <toastyde1th> the number i find on the 7x14s is 4" over the bed
[22:02:08] <moorbo> we have a small one running at my old shop.
[22:02:11] <toastyde1th> er, over the carriage
[22:02:16] <moorbo> or had
[22:02:19] <shaun413_> You say this to get me out of your hair
[22:02:21] <shaun413_> I feel it
[22:02:25] <moorbo> I haven't worked there
[22:02:29] <moorbo> in a while though
[22:02:32] <moorbo> maybe its been replaced.
[22:02:36] <shaun413_> Hm
[22:02:48] <toastyde1th> all inexpensive import lathes are terrible quality
[22:02:51] <toastyde1th> they will turn, however
[22:02:54] <shaun413_> Hm
[22:03:05] <shaun413_> Well is there better for tg cost
[22:03:07] <LatheBuilder> can't agree with you on that point toastyde1th
[22:03:10] <moorbo> shaun413_: what did reis recommend
[22:03:17] <shaun413_> What makes them terrible quality
[22:03:22] <shaun413_> Idr moorbo
[22:03:28] <moorbo> idr?
[22:03:30] <toastyde1th> sorry - they're terrible castings, the ways are horribly ground
[22:03:40] <shaun413_> Hm
[22:03:40] <toastyde1th> the major casting components are shimmed into place, if anything at all
[22:03:48] <shaun413_> I see
[22:03:52] <moorbo> shaun413_: idr the brand, or is that an abbrev ?
[22:03:54] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: i think its kind of an unfair thing to say 'all inexpesnive import lathes are terrible quality'
[22:03:57] <zeeshan> :P
[22:04:02] <toastyde1th> i don't
[22:04:04] <toastyde1th> because it's the case
[22:04:06] <shaun413_> I don't rememver
[22:04:10] <moorbo> shaun413_: ah
[22:04:14] <zeeshan> you can't have possibly tested all of them
[22:04:16] <toastyde1th> they still TURN things
[22:04:24] <toastyde1th> they just do in in the worst possible way
[22:04:29] <shaun413_> How so
[22:04:31] <shaun413_> What's bad
[22:04:31] <zeeshan> then again, i dont have a very cheap ass import either
[22:04:32] <zeeshan> :P
[22:04:33] <moorbo> shaun413_: I'd suggest working on your budget
[22:04:40] <LatheBuilder> at the price point we are talking about. some import lathes are complete trash I'd agree, but at the small end the 7x10/12/14 family is generally made, if underpowered
[22:04:42] <moorbo> shaun413_: and your requirement, like these guys suggested.
[22:04:43] <shaun413_> So no HF?
[22:04:53] <toastyde1th> the castings also flex like crazy
[22:05:02] <moorbo> you could trust me, but most people don't trust women in the industry apparently ;p
[22:05:02] <toastyde1th> the spindle is itty bitty
[22:05:05] <zeeshan> at what depth of cut?
[22:05:09] <zeeshan> what material?
[22:05:20] <zeeshan> you can get a southbend to flex like crazy if you cut deep enough
[22:05:24] <toastyde1th> lol
[22:05:26] <shaun413_> Hmm
[22:05:32] <shaun413_> Um just so lost here
[22:05:34] <toastyde1th> you realize that "flex like crazy" is a relative judgement
[22:05:40] <zeeshan> yes
[22:05:51] <toastyde1th> do you understand how machine tool static rigidity is tested?
[22:05:54] <shaun413_> Idk where to even start
[22:06:05] <toastyde1th> because if you don't, having a discussion about static rigidity is pointless
[22:06:08] <moorbo> shaun413_: you're mainly turning brass and peek, right?
[22:06:18] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: there are many ways.
[22:06:24] <moorbo> at what, the longest, 100mm ?
[22:07:24] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: what kind of test are you specifically thinking about?
[22:07:25] <toastyde1th> zeeshan, any argument saying that the small import bench lathes are anything but the absolute bottom of the barrel of available lathes is disingenuous at best
[22:07:27] <shaun413_> Yes
[22:07:31] <shaun413_> For now
[22:07:40] <moorbo> shaun413_: whats supposed to come later
[22:07:50] <shaun413_> I want to make watches
[22:07:54] <shaun413_> :p
[22:07:58] <moorbo> shaun413_: i would think about these things as your first machine
[22:08:03] <moorbo> like your first guitar
[22:08:07] <shaun413_> Yes
[22:08:09] <moorbo> you don't buy a billion dollar guitar
[22:08:10] <shaun413_> I'd agree
[22:08:11] <zeeshan> if you're planning to do 100 thou depth of cuts on steel on a small lathe forget about it.
[22:08:14] <moorbo> if you don't know fuck all about them.
[22:08:26] <zeeshan> thats asking a lot out of a 200lb lathe
[22:08:31] <shaun413_> Yes
[22:08:38] <moorbo> zeeshan: his goal atm is for brass and PEEK
[22:08:41] <shaun413_> Not going to happen
[22:08:47] <shaun413_> And alum
[22:08:54] <zeeshan> he can even do steel at lower depth of cuts
[22:08:55] <moorbo> and alu apparently.
[22:09:00] <toastyde1th> zeeshan, you still seem to be completely missing the point. There's a whole constellation of small lathes, and the ones we're discussing are the worst of that size. they still EVENTUALLY cut the part you want to make
[22:09:01] <zeeshan> its all relative size
[22:09:05] <toastyde1th> and they'll get sort of there in terms of accuracy
[22:09:15] <toastyde1th> this argument about "it's relative" is nonsense, because I can take a file and sit there and whittle a part
[22:09:22] <toastyde1th> that does not make my hands and the file a good lathe.
[22:09:30] <shaun413_> True
[22:09:37] <shaun413_> I want a quality lathe
[22:09:42] <moorbo> toastyde1th: whats your suggestion for a sub 1000$ lathe.
[22:09:43] <shaun413_> But not for over 1000
[22:09:43] <toastyde1th> they're inxpensive and a way to get into machining
[22:09:50] <shaun413_> True
[22:09:58] <shaun413_> I don't need a monarch
[22:10:05] <toastyde1th> and if i couldn't find the budget to get anything else and I was afraid of used equipment (for any reason), i would buy one
[22:10:25] <shaun413_> I'm not afraid of used
[22:10:29] <toastyde1th> because, as the internet has demonstrated, it's quite possible to make parts on all manner of cobbled together machines
[22:10:32] <zeeshan> a lot of older lathes have worn out v-ways
[22:10:38] <shaun413_> Its just a pita sometimes from.my experience
[22:10:59] <toastyde1th> better worn out in the Y axis than never straight to begin with
[22:11:10] <shaun413_> True
[22:11:52] <toastyde1th> most wear occurs in the vertical, and that's why people still like to use old lathes - unless the wear is truly excessive, dropping the tool .005" in height doesn't make a huge difference
[22:12:04] <moorbo> game of thrones time
[22:12:06] <shaun413_> Right
[22:12:32] <zeeshan> that's true
[22:12:42] <toastyde1th> and in this form factor - stuff under 14x40, few lathes have a ton of wear unless they're abused, because a 14x40 is a toolroom and not a production lathe
[22:12:53] <shaun413_> Yes
[22:13:01] <toastyde1th> but abuse is clearly still something to watch out for and is one of the reasons buying used can be bad for a first timer
[22:13:14] <shaun413_> So what would younrecpmmebd
[22:13:45] <toastyde1th> you aren't going to get a solid recommendation of "buy this," because your budget precludes anything people would strongly, strongly recommend without much argument or contention. you have to decide for yourself, unfortunately.
[22:14:15] <zeeshan> i already told this guy to buy an older southbend, chinese lathe, myford, atlas
[22:14:16] <toastyde1th> you know about some of the used brands, and there's a ton of resources online about the pros and cons of HF-style imports
[22:14:27] <toastyde1th> I'd second any of those
[22:14:56] <zeeshan> the way i looked for my lathe was
[22:14:56] <zeeshan> weight
[22:15:10] <zeeshan> (to narrow down shit from good)
[22:15:12] <toastyde1th> spindle mount and weight are pretty much the go-to methods for speccing out a small lathe
[22:15:15] <zeeshan> and then looked at other things
[22:15:35] <shaun413_> What budget do.I need for a strong reccimendatikn
[22:15:36] <zeeshan> i'm not a big fan of screw on type of chucks
[22:15:38] <toastyde1th> also, the way with vs center height
[22:15:39] <zeeshan> i like the cam lock style
[22:16:20] <toastyde1th> the height of the spindle centerline should not be excessively large compared to the way width, usually 1 to 1.5 on good lathes
[22:16:24] <zeeshan> http://www.busybeetools.com/products/LATHE-12IN.-X-36IN.-2HP-GEAR-HEAD.html
[22:16:25] <zeeshan> i have this baby
[22:16:41] <toastyde1th> shaun413_, unfortunately "good" lathes, used, start in the 2k range
[22:16:42] <zeeshan> can easily do .125 depth of cuts in aluminum
[22:16:51] <shaun413_> Hmm
[22:16:53] <toastyde1th> hopefully you can find one with a bunch of tooling
[22:16:54] <shaun413_> Damn
[22:17:08] <shaun413_> In don't need to do those cuts
[22:17:08] <zeeshan> i actually havent tried pushing it
[22:17:11] <toastyde1th> and "good" import lathes start 5k+
[22:17:18] <shaun413_> Hmm
[22:17:37] <toastyde1th> don't be fooled by talking about depth of cut - just because you aren't going to use that ability doesn't mean the quality and rigidity of construction don't manifest in other areas
[22:17:39] <toastyde1th> like finish cuts
[22:17:55] <toastyde1th> a chatter-free finish cut is greatly assisted by a rigid machine
[22:18:03] <zeeshan> toastyde1th:
[22:18:11] <zeeshan> thats all about dynamic characteristics
[22:18:12] <zeeshan> not static
[22:18:18] <toastyde1th> yes
[22:18:41] <toastyde1th> and none of the lathes we're talking about deal with dynamic rigidity except by adding more mass
[22:19:01] <zeeshan> well
[22:19:05] <zeeshan> some are stiffer by design
[22:19:15] <zeeshan> you don't necessarily need to add mass to get a better dynamic response out of a lathe
[22:19:23] <toastyde1th> and so, on old lathes, you can very effectively predict dynamic rigidity by measuring the static rigidity
[22:19:23] <shaun413_> Hmm
[22:19:33] <shaun413_> OK I guess I'll be back timmorwo
[22:19:38] <shaun413_> I gtg to bed
[22:19:41] <toastyde1th> if you want to get into a "Who knows more" technical pissing match, that's fine, but it isn't going to help this guy.
[22:19:41] <shaun413_> Night
[22:19:44] <toastyde1th> night
[22:19:47] <zeeshan> cu
[22:19:51] <shaun413_> Cya later
[22:19:53] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: it's not about who knows more
[22:20:06] <toastyde1th> okay, explain to me how bringing that up helped him.
[22:20:16] <zeeshan> no matter what we say its not going to help him
[22:20:22] <zeeshan> cause he doesn't understand the basics
[22:20:26] <zeeshan> if you ask this guy what a tail stock is
[22:20:29] <zeeshan> he prolly doesn't even know
[22:20:33] <humble_sea_bass> toastyde1th: the more important thing to know is that there is no helping shaun413_
[22:20:39] <zeeshan> (no offence shaun)
[22:21:02] <toastyde1th> he's going to waffle until he makes a decision, that's fine
[22:21:13] <toastyde1th> or loses interest, i guess. ha.
[22:21:23] <humble_sea_bass> hopin'
[22:21:24] <zeeshan> i've noticed the people that talk a lot
[22:21:29] <zeeshan> tend to be the ones that dissapear after a while
[22:21:31] <zeeshan> and lose interest
[22:21:46] <zeeshan> the ones that ask specific educated questions tend to end up being successful
[22:23:55] <zeeshan> now back to our WHO KN|OWS more conversation
[22:24:05] <humble_sea_bass> the last word in regidity
[22:24:07] <humble_sea_bass> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX1cO2XhMrg
[22:24:14] <zeeshan> a while ago, i did an experiment at school trying to determine the static compliance and dynamic compliance of a machine
[22:24:51] <zeeshan> to give you an idea, the static compliance changed from 2.6 micrometers/N to 0.1124 micrometers / N by adding cross bracing
[22:25:03] <zeeshan> but when we did the dynamic compliance study
[22:25:13] <zeeshan> the numbers started getting larger when we added cross-bracing
[22:25:29] <zeeshan> we actually shifted the natural frequency of the system close to the oscillating load it was seeing
[22:26:35] <zeeshan> how much is that foam cutter
[22:26:35] <zeeshan> lol
[22:26:55] <humble_sea_bass> i think it is made out of the mindstorm kit
[22:26:58] <toastyde1th> yes, but if I can guess, I'd guess the first mode went way up in frequency
[22:27:02] <zeeshan> interesting theyre using nurbs curves
[22:27:03] <humble_sea_bass> and not much else
[22:27:05] <zeeshan> for geometry
[22:27:58] <zeeshan> all we did buy adding the cross braces is changed the stiffness of the machine
[22:28:01] <humble_sea_bass> there are lots of direct modelers folks like
[22:28:08] <toastyde1th> right - i'm not saying you did anything but that
[22:28:10] <zeeshan> naturalfrequency = square root of (stiffness/mass)
[22:28:13] <humble_sea_bass> 3DS max or rhino even
[22:28:36] <zeeshan> so the natural frequency of the system was 120Hz for example
[22:28:44] <zeeshan> but our motor was running at 120Hz also
[22:28:46] <toastyde1th> okay, i'm done, i don't really want to be lectured about things I already know
[22:28:53] <zeeshan> lol okay
[22:29:10] <zeeshan> machinists vs engineers
[22:29:12] <zeeshan> FTW!
[22:29:23] <toastyde1th> no, someone explaining shit someone else already knows to that person
[22:29:34] <zeeshan> well you don't clearly understand it well enough
[22:29:38] <toastyde1th> clearly.
[22:29:45] <humble_sea_bass> i use my advanced vibrations book as a monitor stand
[22:29:48] <zeeshan> because earlier you said mass is a good way to determine how 'rigid a machine is in both static and dynamic modes'
[22:29:54] <toastyde1th> lol
[22:30:08] <toastyde1th> i didn't actually say that
[22:30:11] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: lol
[22:30:11] <toastyde1th> you invited a quote wholesale
[22:30:16] <toastyde1th> so again
[22:30:21] <zeeshan> <toastyde1th> and so, on old lathes, you can very effectively predict dynamic rigidity by measuring the static rigidity
[22:30:25] <toastyde1th> YEP
[22:30:28] <toastyde1th> and that's true!
[22:30:37] <humble_sea_bass> that is true
[22:30:43] <toastyde1th> a heuristic!
[22:30:45] <toastyde1th> shocking!
[22:30:48] <humble_sea_bass> it is ano brainer
[22:30:53] <humble_sea_bass> rule of thumb
[22:30:58] <zeeshan> so you're telling me if you changed the oscillating load your machine saw
[22:31:07] <zeeshan> that would have no effect on your dynamic rigidity ?
[22:31:14] <toastyde1th> loooooool
[22:31:41] <humble_sea_bass> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Mod_92VZA
[22:31:49] <toastyde1th> if you aren't going to spend even a fraction of a second thinking about what I'm saying, and instead jumping ahead to piss knowledge all over everyone
[22:31:57] <toastyde1th> I'm not sure what to say to you
[22:32:50] <humble_sea_bass> keeping work load mass the same across the board, a more massive machine will be more rigid
[22:33:13] <zeeshan> unfortunately on a lathe
[22:33:29] <zeeshan> is a variable oscillatory load
[22:33:42] <humble_sea_bass> yeah I just linked that
[22:33:49] <zeeshan> even if you kept the magnitude of the load constant, the frequency varies w/ your spindle
[22:33:56] <zeeshan> or even down to how the chips are breaking off
[22:33:59] <humble_sea_bass> this fucking guy has a maple burl
[22:34:46] <zeeshan> all he has to do is change the spindle speed to match close to the natural frequency of the machine
[22:34:50] <toastyde1th> zeeshan, you are rushing to respondto what you think other people are saying without taking the time to understand the point that's being made.
[22:34:57] <zeeshan> and that thing would go absolutely nuts
[22:35:09] <toastyde1th> none of what you're saying is actually being debated
[22:35:10] <toastyde1th> which is why it's being ignored
[22:35:34] <zeeshan> then explain to me how static mass is a good measure of a machines dynamic rigidity
[22:35:46] <zeeshan> cause i fail to see the relatiosnhip
[22:35:55] <humble_sea_bass> "wow this is cutting like shit"
[22:35:59] <Jymmm> zeeshan: MAgic Carpet Theory
[22:36:12] <zeeshan> i mean if that was the bloody case
[22:36:20] <humble_sea_bass> >> change feed rate and/or spindle speed
[22:36:21] <zeeshan> we wouldnt have bridges oscillating like they weigh 10 lb
[22:37:02] <humble_sea_bass> 10lb weigts can't make a bridge oscilate
[22:37:05] <humble_sea_bass> science fact
[22:37:13] <toastyde1th> lol, okay, that's not what HE said either
[22:37:30] <Noxz> so I was linked to this channel from elsewhere.. linuxcnc is a software control? nothing more?
[22:37:31] <humble_sea_bass> you need some crazy loads to get it going
[22:37:48] <toastyde1th> humble_sea_bass, that's not what he's talking about
[22:37:53] <humble_sea_bass> i know
[22:37:58] <Jymmm> humble_sea_bass: $1000 USD via Paypal says otherwise
[22:38:28] <zeeshan> this is what im talking about
[22:38:29] <zeeshan> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Forced_Vibration_Response.png
[22:38:37] <humble_sea_bass> give me a lever and I'll move the world situations don't count
[22:39:08] <zeeshan> the reason i know mass is not necessarily a good measure of dynamic rigidity is for the same reason
[22:39:18] <humble_sea_bass> yeah. system dynamics 101
[22:39:19] <toastyde1th> zeeshan, what are machine tools made out of
[22:39:25] <zeeshan> why you end up changing spindle speed, feedrate or whatever when you notice chatter
[22:39:34] <zeeshan> because you're trying to change the frequency ratio
[22:39:43] <toastyde1th> seriously - what are they made out of.
[22:39:52] <zeeshan> what the insert
[22:39:55] <zeeshan> or the actual TOOL
[22:39:58] <humble_sea_bass> cheese
[22:39:58] <zeeshan> or the casting
[22:39:59] <toastyde1th> the physical machine
[22:40:00] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: guts and stuff
[22:40:01] <toastyde1th> the casting
[22:40:04] <zeeshan> usually cast iron
[22:40:06] <toastyde1th> right
[22:40:07] <zeeshan> nodular
[22:40:08] <toastyde1th> and what is cast iron
[22:40:24] <zeeshan> basically fe mixed with more than 4% carbon
[22:40:45] <toastyde1th> i guess that was a fairly disingenuous question on my part because i'm looking for a rather edge response
[22:40:46] <toastyde1th> so i apologize
[22:40:51] <toastyde1th> it's a damper
[22:41:00] <zeeshan> yes it is
[22:41:01] <toastyde1th> a pretty good one at the frequencies we're concerned about
[22:41:22] <zeeshan> so then say that
[22:41:30] <zeeshan> a bigger casting means itll have more natural dampening in it
[22:41:33] <toastyde1th> no, because i'm playing the game you're playing
[22:41:41] <zeeshan> that makes sense
[22:41:48] <zeeshan> saying it just has more mass means nothing to me
[22:41:51] <humble_sea_bass> my sister used to have this beat up 1986 toyota something or other that would vibrate like the apocalyps at 76 mph
[22:41:58] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: Words with friends?
[22:43:32] <toastyde1th> it also turns out that the specifics of how gain and damping work at the tool interface are affected by the static rigidity of the machine - it doesn't actually feed into the calculation except that both are functions of the static rigidity
[22:43:40] <zeeshan> interesting cast iron has a damping factor of 0.0015
[22:43:46] <zeeshan> and epoxy granite has 0.01-0.05
[22:43:58] <toastyde1th> ya, epoxy is a much better casting material
[22:46:11] <toastyde1th> although at the time I was involved with that I didn't stand a chance of understanding the math involved, so i don't understand why that's the case
[22:47:08] <zeeshan> i've never learned at school that its as simple of a relationship as you describe it to be
[22:47:18] <zeeshan> and thats my problem with why i've been "talking back"
[22:47:48] <toastyde1th> in general it isn't that simple - you are correct
[22:48:32] <zeeshan> they've always made us do an experiment to determine the static deflection curves, then do a bunch of tests to determine the systems dynamic response
[22:48:34] <toastyde1th> the specific thing, and i'll describe it as best i'm able because it was somebody's phd dissertation and I was 2nd year mech e at the time
[22:48:45] <toastyde1th> has almost nothing to do with the actual dynamic response of the system
[22:48:49] <zeeshan> after that you can make a good solution on how to fix the problem
[22:49:05] <toastyde1th> the thing they're looking at is how the tool, oscillating in the cut itself, changes the gain and damping
[22:49:08] <zeeshan> are you a mech eng?
[22:49:13] <toastyde1th> math guy now, i switched out
[22:49:18] <zeeshan> after what year
[22:49:21] <toastyde1th> 2nd
[22:49:25] <zeeshan> i only learned vibrations in 3rd year
[22:49:35] <zeeshan> like a specific course on vibrations
[22:49:39] <toastyde1th> never had one
[22:50:00] <toastyde1th> we wind up seeing a lot of the math as examples in our coursework
[22:50:18] <zeeshan> after all its math where we get our models from :)
[22:50:19] <toastyde1th> but i still haven't had a proper course on vibration
[22:50:26] <pcw_home> Thats interesting, they have used piezoelectric materials with resistive loads as passive damping devices
[22:50:49] <zeeshan> pcw_home: sounds like an acoustics application
[22:53:26] <zeeshan> you've prolly seen this equation
[22:53:34] <zeeshan> mx" + cx' + kx = 0
[22:53:45] <zeeshan> i mean you see 3 things right there that effect the dynamic response of the system
[22:53:51] <zeeshan> mass, damping and stiffness
[22:54:15] <zeeshan> and really out of that the only relationship to static rigidity would be mass
[22:57:24] <humble_sea_bass> laplace everything and you can go home and smoke a doob
[22:57:35] <zeeshan> haha
[22:57:48] <zeeshan> laplace is the man
[22:57:52] <Noxz> so.. I think I might have been convinced to do this epoxy+granite base.. anywhere that I should begin?design, ratios, etc?
[22:58:09] <zeeshan> Noxz: convinced how?
[22:58:10] <zeeshan> :P
[22:58:20] <Noxz> like, it makes sense, right?
[22:58:27] <Noxz> notsure how much extra it may be in the end
[22:58:29] <humble_sea_bass> Nox, trial and error or just copy what some other dude did
[22:58:40] <Noxz> but seems more stable than some 80/20 lined up next to eachother
[22:58:43] <zeeshan> how much does epoxy granite weigh?
[22:59:48] <zeeshan> holy cow
[22:59:51] <Noxz> a bit?
[22:59:54] <zeeshan> that looks like some nasty but neat stuff
[23:00:22] <zeeshan> it looks like concrete
[23:00:42] <toastyde1th> it's epoxy and rock aggrigate
[23:00:46] <humble_sea_bass> I think captain said it was 10% epoxy
[23:01:10] <zeeshan> i can't see it hurting
[23:01:12] <toastyde1th> there's very little publically available data on how to mix the aggrigate
[23:01:24] <toastyde1th> and the final outcome is very, very sensitive to the mixture
[23:01:25] <zeeshan> but its hard to know what it'll do without measuring the response of your machine right now
[23:01:30] <humble_sea_bass> it looks like it is a "to taste" type thing
[23:01:44] <toastyde1th> it's not
[23:01:54] <zeeshan> i wonder how much it'd cost to make your own hammer with a load cell and hook up an accelrometer
[23:02:23] <zeeshan> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCMillEpoxyFill.htm
[23:02:29] <zeeshan> this guy added 40kg of epoxy
[23:02:34] <humble_sea_bass> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdfpDenJ2zY
[23:02:39] <toastyde1th> usually what people do is get a mix of different size rock
[23:02:43] <humble_sea_bass> yep. sure looks sensitive
[23:03:08] <humble_sea_bass> some of those look like ass
[23:03:09] <toastyde1th> yes, because what some dude on the internet is doing in his kitchen is the pinnacle of engineering
[23:03:28] <toastyde1th> the issue is you want as much large rock as possible, to minimize the amount of epoxy
[23:03:45] <zeeshan> unfortunately the bottom line is
[23:03:52] <zeeshan> people are "designing stuff"
[23:03:57] <zeeshan> but don't do any calculations :P
[23:03:59] <toastyde1th> haha
[23:04:16] <toastyde1th> it's hard to do it horrifyingly poorly as long as the amount of epoxy stays low
[23:04:20] <humble_sea_bass> Iterate
[23:04:21] <toastyde1th> you can wind up with a lot of voids
[23:04:38] <toastyde1th> but if you have a high percentage of epoxy, you wind up with a very weak casting
[23:04:39] <zeeshan> Noxz: arent you the guy building a milling machine out of 8020?
[23:05:16] <zeeshan> what happens if you take a hammer to epoxy granite
[23:05:19] <zeeshan> does it chip off?
[23:05:26] <zeeshan> like a rock
[23:05:39] <Noxz> zeeshan: did you forget about me that quickly?
[23:05:42] <toastyde1th> not sure, never seen anyone hit a casting
[23:05:45] <zeeshan> Noxz: haha
[23:05:56] <zeeshan> you've never hammered a casting?!
[23:06:02] <toastyde1th> not an epoxy casting
[23:06:03] <zeeshan> its the best way to break apart engine blocks
[23:06:04] <zeeshan> :D
[23:06:06] <toastyde1th> hahah
[23:06:25] <zeeshan> im curious to know if the epoxy piece just falls out
[23:06:33] <zeeshan> or if there is a strong bond between the epoxy and the steel too
[23:06:52] <zeeshan> kinda like if you're making ice cubes, do they fall out easily
[23:07:10] <zeeshan> i bet its something like jb weld epoxy
[23:07:14] <zeeshan> makes a strong bond
[23:07:44] <zeeshan> At this point, I can't see much point in monkeying with success. It may be that a 10% epoxy formula would be better, but this will work just fine for this project. I plan to keep Epoxy Granite in mind for other projects. I understand it sets up with an accuracy of 0.001" on top if you get rid of bubbles, so you could make a surface plate from it.
[23:07:51] <zeeshan> haha
[23:07:58] <zeeshan> that would be sweet, making your own surface plate out of epoxy granite
[23:08:09] <toastyde1th> haha that would be horrifying
[23:08:12] <toastyde1th> how would you make it flat
[23:08:22] <toastyde1th> i mean if .001 was okay, then it's not a problem
[23:08:27] <zeeshan> maybe pour it in some horrendously accurate mold
[23:08:34] <humble_sea_bass> use an expensive precision granite to make yours
[23:08:39] <zeeshan> HBAHA
[23:08:42] <zeeshan> that would work!
[23:08:53] <humble_sea_bass> and get it done before they get back and see what you did
[23:08:54] <toastyde1th> yeah but you still have the same problem - you have to be able to resurface the plate
[23:09:12] <toastyde1th> granite is nice because it's hard as shit and doesn't wear fast at all
[23:09:21] <toastyde1th> and can be resurfaced very accurately
[23:09:29] <zeeshan> ive never seen granite resurfacing
[23:09:36] <zeeshan> what do they use some diamond tools
[23:09:45] <toastyde1th> dry diamond grit and cast iron hand laps
[23:10:19] <zeeshan> now that im looking at a starrett granite plate online
[23:10:20] <toastyde1th> and a beam straightedge that sits maybe 10" up off the plate, on a kinematic mount
[23:10:26] <zeeshan> looks very much like this guys epoxy granite haha
[23:10:32] <toastyde1th> scraped in so that it's level when it's sagging under gravity
[23:11:27] <zeeshan> now im curious to see how flat my glass computer table is
[23:11:52] <zeeshan> i always see people using glass and sand paper on top of it
[23:11:54] <zeeshan> to flatten things out
[23:12:04] <toastyde1th> locally, glass is very flat
[23:12:18] <toastyde1th> it's not at all flat over any actual distance (6" and on"
[23:12:19] <toastyde1th> )
[23:12:22] <zeeshan> ah
[23:12:27] <zeeshan> from what i remember
[23:12:31] <humble_sea_bass> i love large floated glass windows because of the wavyness
[23:12:42] <zeeshan> i saw a guy polishing a 1" diameter mirror
[23:13:02] <zeeshan> for laser usage in his gyro laser setup
[23:13:04] <zeeshan> or whatever you call those things
[23:13:06] <humble_sea_bass> stay away from the telescope mirror polishers
[23:13:25] <humble_sea_bass> it is a religion
[23:13:44] <zeeshan> http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/01/25/mirror-polishing_custom-c6e54cca037912aaf033bf94d7a043b37e8c95b7-s6-c30.jpg
[23:13:54] <zeeshan> that comes up when i searched for telescope mirror polishers
[23:13:54] <zeeshan> haha
[23:14:00] <zeeshan> look at the girls screen
[23:14:14] <zeeshan> i think the right screen is showing all the low/high spots
[23:14:23] <toastyde1th> that fucking thing is so crazy
[23:14:37] <toastyde1th> it's a deterministic polishing machine
[23:14:54] <toastyde1th> deformable lap with like 40 actuators on it
[23:15:07] <zeeshan> thats precision!
[23:15:22] <toastyde1th> so as the lap rotates, the profile of the lapping plate is deformed to match the theoretical curvature of the workpiece
[23:15:35] <humble_sea_bass> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBuWG32Py1A
[23:16:23] <zeeshan> that big round frosted looking glass piece = telescope polisher?
[23:16:32] <zeeshan> (is that what youw ere referring to?)
[23:16:37] <toastyde1th> ?
[23:16:42] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass:
[23:16:50] <zeeshan> > stay away from the telescope mirror polishers
[23:17:16] <humble_sea_bass> yeah those guys with the "How to make a telescope" book (an actual book)
[23:17:44] <zeeshan> i dont think i'd have the patience to make one
[23:17:48] <somenewguy> i know a retired dude who used to do that
[23:17:54] <zeeshan> though ive always wanted a refractive telescope
[23:17:57] <toastyde1th> that guy is grinding that mirror blank in the slowest way i've ever seen
[23:18:58] <somenewguy> never talks details, I assume it was a lot of gov stuff, but the point he always goes back to was the guys who managed the pitch were magicians/clansmen who would NEVER share thier secrets, you best apprentice son
[23:19:16] <humble_sea_bass> here is a bbc video walking you throug the process, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0iyRgRhvLk
[23:20:05] <zeeshan> man i'd just bust out an orbital sander for that shit
[23:20:09] <zeeshan> screw hand labour
[23:20:20] <humble_sea_bass> yeah see. you're out of the club
[23:20:32] <zeeshan> i did enough hand labour when i prepped my car for paint
[23:20:36] <zeeshan> its kind of a similar process
[23:20:36] <humble_sea_bass> you just got your walking papers from the diy telecope club
[23:20:42] <zeeshan> haha
[23:21:16] <somenewguy> hahaha
[23:22:51] <zeeshan> i wanna show you guys some pics of this
[23:24:03] <zeeshan> cmon imgur
[23:24:05] <zeeshan> don't dissapoint me
[23:24:40] <toastyde1th> christ, all these people are obsessed with making lenses the hardest way possible
[23:25:16] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/xzg82
[23:25:19] <zeeshan> 3rd pic is how it all starts
[23:25:25] <toastyde1th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noBWSeozpkI
[23:25:29] <zeeshan> note the low and high spots (black and greyish are low spots)
[23:25:40] <zeeshan> when you're done just painting and stuff it comes out like the 4th pic
[23:25:54] <zeeshan> 2nd and last pic show how you gotta sand the painted clear coat again to get it mirror smooth
[23:26:01] <zeeshan> and the finished product is the first pic
[23:26:16] <zeeshan> so i guess polishing mirrors is very similar to car painting
[23:26:23] <toastyde1th> ya
[23:26:28] <toastyde1th> except minus the interferometry step
[23:26:48] <zeeshan> and the fact you can sit on your butt and do it!
[23:26:51] <zeeshan> ill never paint a car again
[23:27:10] <toastyde1th> you can walk the hell away from a lens grinding op
[23:27:12] <toastyde1th> and just come back later
[23:27:26] <toastyde1th> i never got the hang of running the lapping machine where I used to work
[23:27:29] <toastyde1th> big 40" lapping wheel
[23:27:58] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: you have a funny job path, you finished a math degree and you're doing machine work
[23:27:59] <zeeshan> hehe
[23:28:05] <toastyde1th> other way around
[23:28:11] <zeeshan> oh
[23:28:16] <toastyde1th> machining -> eng -> had to move and restart -> physics -> math
[23:28:28] <zeeshan> are you still doing machining stuff?
[23:28:30] <zeeshan> or math related work
[23:28:33] <toastyde1th> and now I'm working full time in IT, but they pay me to go to school
[23:28:58] <toastyde1th> nah, i just find math interesting, i don't want to be a mathematician
[23:29:00] <zeeshan> im always interested to know what math people end up doing
[23:29:18] <zeeshan> lots of variety of fields hire math degree people
[23:29:19] <humble_sea_bass> making money
[23:29:32] <toastyde1th> ya, everyone i know who did math are all in totally random fields
[23:29:38] <toastyde1th> if they didn't do academia
[23:29:53] <zeeshan> i love math
[23:30:19] <zeeshan> i like seeing where it comes from and how to use it
[23:30:32] <zeeshan> did you use matlab
[23:30:37] <zeeshan> or fortran or something like that
[23:30:44] <toastyde1th> nope, i'm on the pure math side
[23:30:50] <zeeshan> ah
[23:31:01] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKxjikVs_4Q
[23:31:04] <zeeshan> i used to do this for fun
[23:31:05] <zeeshan> haha
[23:31:17] <zeeshan> solve out various wave equations and move em with time
[23:32:17] <toastyde1th> i hated my ode class
[23:32:30] <toastyde1th> it was very very geared toward non-math majors, but didn't have any applications either
[23:32:37] <toastyde1th> it was this weird bastardized class that nobody was happy with
[23:32:41] <zeeshan> got lucky with mine
[23:32:47] <zeeshan> an engineer taught ours
[23:32:54] <zeeshan> so it was very easy to follow
[23:33:05] <toastyde1th> also ours was packed full of every solution method ever, regardless of utility
[23:33:05] <humble_sea_bass> sounds like this complex analysis class i took
[23:33:18] <humble_sea_bass> I was so excited to take it, and then it just blew
[23:33:25] <zeeshan> haha
[23:33:32] <zeeshan> i think learning to solve odes is kind of silly
[23:33:37] <zeeshan> actually nm
[23:33:38] <zeeshan> its important
[23:33:43] <humble_sea_bass> laplace or bust
[23:33:53] <zeeshan> in reality, most real life ones need to be solved numerically
[23:33:56] <toastyde1th> didn't touch laplace with a ten foot pole, which infuriated me
[23:34:10] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: when you say laplace
[23:34:15] <zeeshan> are you talking about using laplace transforms?
[23:34:22] <toastyde1th> yeah
[23:34:23] <zeeshan> or laplace partial differential equation
[23:34:24] <zeeshan> oh
[23:35:17] <zeeshan> ODEs i used to solve that equation i posted earlier the mx" + cx' + kx = 0 shit
[23:35:23] <toastyde1th> ya
[23:35:32] <humble_sea_bass> my bad, talking PDE, but that and Controls/Dynamics are what suckered me into the complex analysis class
[23:35:36] <zeeshan> if it wasn't equatl to 0 and equal to some sin function, then you had to use another method
[23:35:54] <toastyde1th> annihilator method or superposition
[23:35:56] <zeeshan> in mechanical vibrations we had to solve em but also understand what was going on
[23:36:03] <zeeshan> i never learned annhilator
[23:36:09] <zeeshan> we did it through superposition
[23:36:18] <zeeshan> or through 'guessing'
[23:36:21] <toastyde1th> lol
[23:36:24] <zeeshan> what the solution is supposed to look like
[23:36:48] <zeeshan> that's all ODEs were useful for in my opinion
[23:36:51] <zeeshan> the beauty is in PDEs
[23:36:53] <toastyde1th> i'd have preferred to just learn laplace transforms
[23:37:10] <toastyde1th> rather than 400 methods to solve second order linear odes
[23:37:13] <zeeshan> i use that shit in heat transfer, fluid mechanics, CFD, strength of materials
[23:37:33] <toastyde1th> i'll probably never take a PDE class, i am horrible at memorization
[23:37:34] <zeeshan> they taught us how to solve that mx" blah blah equation using laplace transforms in the controls class
[23:37:46] <toastyde1th> i got a D in ODE because i couldn't memorize 40 tables of solutions
[23:37:55] <zeeshan> i dont think pde class has a lot of memorization
[23:38:00] <toastyde1th> understood all the linear algebra and basis for the solution
[23:38:09] <toastyde1th> just couldn't do the work without a book next to me
[23:38:12] <zeeshan> they teach you the wave equation, laplace equation, transport equation and stuf like that
[23:38:17] <zeeshan> which all has very real life applications
[23:38:48] <toastyde1th> yeah
[23:38:53] <toastyde1th> i wanted to learn more modeling
[23:39:05] <somenewguy> why the heck does axis keep claming i don't have aR value declared in my G81
[23:39:14] <zeeshan> like in my current CFD class which i have an exam for on wednesday
[23:39:28] <zeeshan> we're using laplace equation to solve a typical cavity heat transfer problem
[23:39:36] <zeeshan> its pretty frigging cool when you plot it all out using a computer
[23:39:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CCK8Wl7.png
[23:40:00] <zeeshan> the left and right walls are insulation
[23:40:08] <zeeshan> top is cold, bottom wall is hot
[23:40:22] <zeeshan> so you have natural convection happening which you can solve using the energy PDE
[23:40:31] <zeeshan> gives you fancy things like that
[23:40:53] <toastyde1th> maybe one day i'll be able to go back and take that class
[23:40:55] <humble_sea_bass> what's the name of the ansys program to make meshes for testing
[23:41:06] <humble_sea_bass> jack something or other
[23:41:20] <zeeshan> im learned ansys 14.5 workbench
[23:41:32] <zeeshan> you run 4-5 different programs within it
[23:41:42] <humble_sea_bass> anyways, we made dongs and tested how aerodynamic they were 8==D
[23:41:44] <zeeshan> i think the sub program is called CFX-MESH
[23:41:51] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: ROFL
[23:41:57] <zeeshan> great way to learn
[23:42:12] <zeeshan> making a dong in ansys modeling would be a pain in the ass!
[23:42:30] <zeeshan> better off throwing in an inventor model in there
[23:43:46] <zeeshan> why are mitutoyo telescoping gauges so expensive
[23:44:43] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Fowler-and-Mitutoyo-telescoping-gage-/331173777240?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1b7ecf58
[23:44:48] <somenewguy> odes are awesome
[23:45:01] <zeeshan> math is awesome!
[23:45:13] <zeeshan> its the main reason im trying to finish my masters
[23:45:19] <zeeshan> im trying to specialize in plastic deformation
[23:45:24] <zeeshan> and that means learning more math stuff! tensors
[23:45:25] <somenewguy> that is why I take recreational arithmatic
[23:45:41] <zeeshan> whats that
[23:45:52] <somenewguy> my best friends dad 'adopted' me in highschool
[23:45:53] <zeeshan> usually people say 'i take recreational drugs'
[23:46:01] <zeeshan> not 'recreational arthimetic'
[23:46:04] <zeeshan> :)
[23:46:18] <somenewguy> stolen from dr who, but an accurate description
[23:46:45] <somenewguy> but anyways he is a brilliant mathamagician, MIT grad in aero, reads linear algebra books for fun
[23:47:08] <somenewguy> but when we get drunk he just rambles about whatever he is learning about, 90%$ of it goes over my head despite me being pretty good at the stuff, the man is in a league of his own
[23:47:09] <zeeshan> conceptual linear algebra is my weak point
[23:47:15] <zeeshan> as soon as people talk about vector spaces and stuff
[23:47:16] <zeeshan> i get very lost :{
[23:47:32] <somenewguy> translations, mapping, it gets weird fast
[23:47:40] <zeeshan> yep
[23:47:49] <somenewguy> alll his girls were nerdy, but the wrong kind, so he was happy to find someone who almost got it
[23:48:16] <somenewguy> (also they were cute, but we avoid the subject there)
[23:48:25] <zeeshan> haha
[23:49:10] <somenewguy> worked out ok, I'm only actually friends w/ him at this point lol and they have gone off to go get married so we get our math and scotch time all to ourselves