#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-28

[00:00:19] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: have a pic of the machine?
[00:00:27] <nnnn> i can get a pic of it
[00:00:32] <nnnn> give me a second
[00:01:05] <tjtr33> tomp humms jeopardy tune
[00:01:07] <nnnn> its a scara arm
[00:02:10] <PetefromTn_> you got a scar on your arm...;)
[00:02:14] <tjtr33> is Z moved by just one motor? (in scara i think thats true)
[00:02:19] <nnnn> http://imgur.com/bBSHgj9
[00:02:24] <PetefromTn_> you got a scary arm?
[00:02:42] <PetefromTn_> Hey look he works at Nasa too!!
[00:02:53] <nnnn> lol
[00:03:06] <CaptHindsight> the Viking project :)
[00:03:16] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Do we need to actuate the PDB twice ? or just once? when changing tools ?
[00:03:25] <PetefromTn_> Is that in your living room,,, You are MY HERO man...
[00:03:48] <Connor> I think twice, because I don't think we can check tool present with drawbar active..
[00:04:07] <Connor> Do you remember how it use to work on the old controller ?
[00:04:08] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how long have you not been single? :)
[00:04:15] <PetefromTn_> No actually it goes up, ram swings in...
[00:04:23] <PetefromTn_> power drawbar fires,
[00:04:34] <PetefromTn_> head raises up with drawbar held open.
[00:04:41] <PetefromTn_> carousel rotates,
[00:04:48] <PetefromTn_> head comes back down atop tool
[00:04:58] <PetefromTn_> Drawbar releases locking tool into spindle.
[00:05:02] <Connor> okay, so, only fires once.
[00:05:17] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight A LONG TIME....
[00:05:25] <nnnn> yeah that is my room lol
[00:05:27] <Connor> I may have too many sensor checks..
[00:05:28] <nnnn> u should see my desk
[00:05:55] <PetefromTn_> I did have a manual mill and lathe in a rented house in a spare room once in a previous life LOL.
[00:05:58] <Connor> *IF* I remember correctly.. the tool present sensor doesn't change until after the PDB is released..
[00:06:18] <PetefromTn_> Dunno would have to check.
[00:06:27] <PetefromTn_> your room at Nasa?
[00:06:30] <Connor> I need you to when you can..
[00:06:32] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: interesting, it hard to see from that pic, there's a drive belt under the arm where I would expect the Z to be
[00:06:43] <Connor> you'll need to open up hal config and bring all the I/O pins up.
[00:06:49] <Connor> remember we made a map..
[00:06:56] <nnnn> the z is the tower
[00:07:24] <PetefromTn_> How does the Z work?
[00:08:13] <PetefromTn_> you mean the pin mapping file on desktop...
[00:08:23] <PetefromTn_> Okay gotta do it tomorrow. In bed now LOL.
[00:08:37] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: the square column? black post inside the orange base?
[00:08:43] <nnnn> zep
[00:08:47] <Connor> PetefromTn_: yea
[00:08:49] <nnnn> so there is a motor at the bottom of it
[00:08:57] <nnnn> here is my desk lol http://imgur.com/dcvsNFt
[00:09:23] <PetefromTn_> Wow look at all that Repcrap errr... reprap...
[00:09:31] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[00:09:33] <nnnn> hahahaha hey
[00:09:41] <CaptHindsight> you have to start somewhere
[00:09:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah but do you HAVE to start there?
[00:10:34] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: so just your Z goes the wrong direction?
[00:10:37] <PetefromTn_> Just kidding man at least you HAVE a 3d printer I can only dream of one..
[00:11:19] <PetefromTn_> Or borrow my pal Connor's ;)
[00:11:27] <tjtr33> nnnn is the Z moved by just one motor? if so, then try invert the hal DIR signal
[00:11:57] <tjtr33> ooopps, wait, is it stepper or servo? (open or closed loop ?)
[00:11:59] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: when he flips HAL he gets a following error
[00:12:03] <PetefromTn_> I wanna make a little Yoda head..
[00:12:08] <nnnn> tjtr33: i tried that and once i do that i ge tthe following error
[00:12:09] <nnnn> lol
[00:12:22] <CaptHindsight> BLDC motor
[00:12:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/7i25man.pdf driven by this
[00:12:56] <nnnn> yeah
[00:13:44] <CaptHindsight> 17 MOTOR1DIR, 19 MOTOR0DIR
[00:14:18] <PetefromTn_> What the hell is that thing on top of your mantle?
[00:14:51] <PetefromTn_> Right under the righteous IRON MAN poster?
[00:15:02] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: flip the motor drive outputs on Z
[00:15:27] <nnnn> from the mesa board?
[00:15:50] <nnnn> pete: its a robot gripper
[00:16:04] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: which output is Z on the 7i25?
[00:16:26] <nnnn> its gonna take me a while to find it
[00:16:27] <PetefromTn_> Looks like you and my pal Connor would get along famously hehehe
[00:16:28] <nnnn> one second
[00:17:42] <nnnn> oh!
[00:17:43] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, flip the motor AND the encoder ( dont they have to agree?)
[00:17:50] <nnnn> oh ya,....
[00:17:56] <nnnn> i would have to flip both motor
[00:17:57] <nnnn> no
[00:17:58] <nnnn> wait
[00:18:04] <nnnn> i could flip motor and then flip the hal
[00:18:31] <tjtr33> slow down and think, right now it doesnot eorror, just moves wrong way
[00:19:31] <PetefromTn_> Nasa's Abandoned Viking III scara Robot looks to have been mothballed due to cost constraints and wound up in this guys bedroom. He plans to use it for WORLD DOMINATION!! NOBODY IS SAFE!!
[00:20:01] <CaptHindsight> flip motor and encoder, leave HAL alone
[00:20:34] <tjtr33> to make it move right way, reverse the 2 motor wires, BUT that would cause the encoder to ... read in the new diretion, i agree, just flip the motor wires
[00:22:34] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: is there anything else on the 7i25? other setting jumpers, I've never touched one
[00:22:42] <PetefromTn_> He's gonna use it to 3d print a gaggle of plastic automaton minions and unleash them on the world to do his dastardly bidding. Run for your lives!! Damn It must be late I gotta get to bed now.
[00:23:18] <tjtr33> Capt i dont use one either.
[00:23:41] <tjtr33> haha, well try just the motor then also change he encoder if it doesnt work. ( sorry i cant imagine it well, its too late )
[00:23:49] <PetefromTn_> GN8
[00:23:55] <tjtr33> GN*
[00:28:48] <tjtr33> (headslap) reverse the encoder AND the motor leads , and good nite
[00:29:12] <CaptHindsight> lol
[00:39:16] <nnnn> hahahahah pete what the hell
[00:40:44] <nnnn> flipping the hal and the motor pos and neg worked!
[00:41:56] <Connor> nnnn: What kind of arm is that? and where did you find it?
[00:43:32] <Connor> I think I have a tool changer script for Pete's machine... Been testing it on my sim.. looks to work..
[00:43:42] <Connor> Just need to go over all the sensor inputs..
[00:44:02] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: \0/
[00:44:29] <nnnn> its a seiko epson
[00:44:31] <nnnn> scara
[00:44:40] <nnnn> i found it at a lab clean out for free~
[00:44:56] <Connor> DAMN, How do you all do crap like that...
[00:46:08] <nnnn> so now i just need to calibrate the joints?
[00:46:38] <nnnn> if i have motion in linuxcnc in the correct direction but not the correct amount can i still try to run the default program?
[00:46:51] <nnnn> will it work in cnc mode if i can move it with the plus minus signs in the right direction
[00:47:24] <CaptHindsight> it should
[00:47:57] <CaptHindsight> just move it slowly
[00:48:13] <CaptHindsight> the scale might be off by 100x
[00:48:17] <CaptHindsight> wham
[00:50:30] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302253 I'm rebuilding this beast now
[00:50:44] <nnnn> so i dont have the limit switches hooked up yet
[00:50:54] <CaptHindsight> nearly 2m envelope
[00:51:02] <nnnn> no way! thats awesome
[00:51:04] <nnnn> how did u get it?
[00:51:11] <CaptHindsight> fleabay
[00:51:25] <nnnn> how much?
[00:51:31] <CaptHindsight> heh $300
[00:51:59] <CaptHindsight> ~150lbs
[00:52:01] <nnnn> awesome!
[00:52:37] <nnnn> so when i try to run the program on the arm it says can not run program axis not homed
[00:52:44] <nnnn> but i home the axis before every try
[00:52:59] <Connor_iPad> Ow you going to fix the broken arm?
[00:53:08] <CaptHindsight> yes, new arm
[00:53:17] <CaptHindsight> better than new
[00:53:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adept-scara-type-robot-with-controls-wiring-base-model-841-/121305083769?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3e58af79
[00:54:01] <CaptHindsight> look at this beast
[00:54:26] <nnnn> thats awesome
[00:54:32] <nnnn> personally im more of a puma guy
[00:56:36] <CaptHindsight> I build custom but sometimes use Staubli
[00:57:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kajzYZVxkkA or similar
[00:58:13] <CaptHindsight> they have 2 SCARAS !
[00:58:43] <nnnn> that thing is sick
[00:58:49] <nnnn> capt: i have a question
[01:02:23] <tjtr33> you wanna see puma's ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX6JcybgDFo
[01:02:28] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: it worked
[01:02:33] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: yes?
[01:02:57] <tjtr33> i heard! but what was changed in hal?
[01:03:11] <CaptHindsight> no hal change
[01:03:22] <nnnn> tjtr33: i almost worked for the people who made box this summer but chose another place instead
[01:03:29] <CaptHindsight> just flipped motor polarity and encoder
[01:03:35] <nnnn> no
[01:03:42] <nnnn> it was ini change and motor polority
[01:03:47] <tjtr33> nnnn thats way cool I love that project
[01:04:01] <nnnn> yeah its awesome
[01:04:05] <tjtr33> oh ok ini & motor wires
[01:04:16] <nnnn> the best one in my opinion they made is the graffiti one
[01:04:43] <tjtr33> ok back to study thai Sawatdeekrup! ( hektor? the grafiti robot? ) bye!
[01:05:28] <nnnn> capt: so i dont have the limit switches wired yet and it wont let me run the program
[01:05:33] <nnnn> it says error homing
[01:06:15] <CaptHindsight> well you can change the ini for the home signal
[01:06:53] <CaptHindsight> have to see your ini, can you just zero all the axis?
[01:07:18] <nnnn> is there a way i can show u my ini?
[01:07:26] <nnnn> i can paste it somewhere from another comp
[01:07:27] <CaptHindsight> pastebin
[01:07:35] <nnnn> ok one minute brb
[01:08:04] <CaptHindsight> I actually forget, I try not to touch code
[01:10:37] <nnnn> http://pastebin.com/ifvFYuze
[01:14:11] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: will it let you jog?
[01:18:40] <nnnn> yep it will let me jog in all directions and the scara sim follows and the numbers follow in lcnc
[01:19:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUGbagf5-4 this make the Chinese routers look like Swiss clocks
[01:26:05] <nnnn> sweet
[01:26:13] <nnnn> capt: any ideas?
[01:31:06] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: whats the question, I thought you have it moving
[01:31:36] <nnnn> right i have it moving but the program wont work
[01:31:45] <nnnn> it is jogging though and the sim is moving at the same rate
[01:31:54] <nnnn> the program when i try to get it to run it says error homing
[01:32:40] <CaptHindsight> I'll have to look tomorrow
[01:33:13] <CaptHindsight> it might be the polarity of your home switch
[01:33:58] <nnnn> the home switches arent wired yet
[01:34:06] <nnnn> do i need home switches to run the program?
[01:34:22] <CaptHindsight> if the ini file is expecting them
[01:35:05] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Homing_And_Limit_Switch
[01:35:13] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html
[01:35:34] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html
[01:41:52] <nnnn> wierd so i did that and set the search velocity to zero
[01:41:54] <nnnn> for all
[01:41:58] <nnnn> and it already was all at zero
[01:42:04] <nnnn> which means its not looking for switches
[01:42:07] <nnnn> so that can be it
[01:42:09] <nnnn> cent
[01:42:11] <nnnn> cant
[01:42:14] <nnnn> it still didnt work
[01:42:22] <nnnn> it said "cant run a program when not homed"
[01:44:28] <CaptHindsight> there is a way to have it ignore that
[01:45:42] <nnnn> for sure?
[02:14:41] <ReadError> disable the always home
[02:32:30] <nnnn> where is that at
[02:33:04] <nnnn> readerror:
[02:47:24] <nnnn> ReadError: u there
[02:58:20] <Deejay> moinsen
[04:48:43] <archivist_herron> !later nnnn http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/9468-disable-homing
[04:48:43] <the_wench> will tell nnnn when he/she joins next
[06:30:22] <skroon> hi all
[08:30:51] <Loetmichel> gnah... came this morning to the company, co-worker called me "michel, come up to the office please, it smells like burning here..." found it: chinese NIC... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14796&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[08:32:24] <Loetmichel> ... btw: the PC is up and running again, changed the two PCI slots and cleaned the board and the gpu ;-) (was less hassle than re-registering the hardware-bound software on that box)
[08:36:04] <skunkworks> wow
[08:36:11] <skunkworks> what actually burned up?
[08:36:56] <skunkworks> on the board
[08:37:06] <humble_sea_bass> that would be funny if it wasn't kind of terrifying
[08:37:35] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp0ZpxsgxVs
[08:39:06] <Loetmichel> skroon: seems tha cap on the nic had developed a short
[08:39:12] <Loetmichel> skunkworks
[08:39:20] <skunkworks> ah - poof
[08:40:11] <Loetmichel> and it actually burned
[08:40:37] <Loetmichel> the whole case was full of big flakes of soot
[08:40:58] <Loetmichel> just got some compresed air in before making that photo
[08:41:44] <Loetmichel> amazingly after changing the two burned up slots, the Cap that bulged above it and a new bio battery it runs like nothing happened
[08:41:51] <Loetmichel> with a new nic of course ;-9
[08:43:13] <Loetmichel> (BTW: desoldering a opci slot without desoldering anything beside it is a not so easy task ;-)
[08:43:19] <Loetmichel> -o
[08:44:20] <skunkworks> Loetmichel, wow - never gone that far.. (replaced blown caps - not pci plugs..)
[08:44:53] <Loetmichel> skroon: on that machine was some special software taht binds to the hardware
[08:45:12] <skunkworks> sure - makes sense..
[08:45:31] <Loetmichel> so if i changed that board it would need new registering at the software company. which is a PITA because its an Very old version and they are reluiuctant to support ist
[09:28:30] <CaptHindsight> are you sure it isn't a Realtek Self-Destruct-On-Lan feature?
[09:32:12] <archivist_herron> Firewire :)
[09:36:15] <humble_sea_bass> y2k bug in y2k14
[09:45:52] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: more like the you get what you pay for"... weh bought a few 100s of these cards for 5,6 eur each ;-9
[09:46:46] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: somebody found a home for some leftover cheap capacitors
[09:49:14] <Loetmichel> chiensee quaitly . nuff said ;-)
[09:49:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdqRH7_EOD8 this is where the parts for many boards like that get purchased, you don't now what you're getting
[09:53:13] <humble_sea_bass> I used to have a 30 inch dell monitor/tv that blew a bunch of caps
[09:53:23] <humble_sea_bass> turns out there was a recall
[09:59:05] <CaptHindsight> it's the number one reason LCD's die
[10:00:35] <CaptHindsight> the trick is to design a product that last just beyond the warranty period and not before
[10:02:40] <CaptHindsight> cheap caps and poor thermal management, I get some devices to live for years by just adding proper cooling. We had an original PS3 that lived for several years by just opening up larger slots fr airflow
[10:03:16] <humble_sea_bass> my coworkers PS3 just dides
[10:03:26] <humble_sea_bass> it was a first generation one
[10:03:53] <archivist_herron> back in the 1970's when out repairing TV sets electrolytic caps were a regular fault
[10:05:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/capacitors/aluminum-capacitors/131081 notice column 8 "Lifetime @ Temp"
[10:06:30] <humble_sea_bass> heh, i've never noticed that column
[10:06:49] <CaptHindsight> 500 Hrs @ 85C is a joke
[10:08:06] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: you mean like in this (hannsG) 19" tft psu? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5675
[10:08:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5678
[10:08:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.edn.com/design/components-and-packaging/4326347/Determining-end-of-life-ESR-and-lifetime-calculations-for-electrolytic-capacitors-at-higher-temperatures
[10:09:24] <CaptHindsight> caps go bad in products so often I see kits in bags on ebay based on model numbers
[10:11:01] <CaptHindsight> I've never met an EE that had any training in thermal management in school
[10:11:01] <Loetmichel> thats really great desing for hannsg: every haldf a year the caps go (_) ... so i have tio change them
[10:11:57] <CaptHindsight> can you fit in larger and longer life caps?
[10:12:05] <Loetmichel> i did and i have
[10:12:16] <Loetmichel> doesent help other than elongate the period to a year
[10:12:29] <Loetmichel> they are simply to neat to the heatsik
[10:12:42] <Loetmichel> .. and it looks likt that is by design, not by error ;-)
[10:12:48] <CaptHindsight> sure
[10:13:02] <CaptHindsight> can you fit a fan in there?
[10:13:10] <Loetmichel> in a tft?
[10:13:28] <Loetmichel> no, i will change them one last time and then look for two 24" fukllHD tfts for cheaop
[10:13:41] <CaptHindsight> I've drilled holes in the rear of the enclosures to add fans
[10:13:57] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12727
[10:14:15] <Loetmichel> no ideay how i will fit them there in the space of the 19"... but we'll see ;-9
[10:14:57] <CaptHindsight> I've kept a Broadcomm sat receiver alive buy just propping open the case 1"
[10:15:13] <Loetmichel> (thats my desk at home btw ;-9
[10:15:24] <CaptHindsight> no heatsinks on the BGA's, they run so hot you'll burn your fingers
[10:15:42] <jdh> I have a 486 with a funky old framegrabber that has teh case tilted open 45 degrees and a 6" fan blowing on it.
[10:16:03] <jdh> I've been meaning to fix that for 6 or 8 years
[10:16:19] <Loetmichel> jdh: like my blitecoin mining rig?
[10:16:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14553
[10:17:14] <jdh> except my fan looks prettier
[10:17:33] <Loetmichel> hrhr, taht was temporary
[10:17:37] <jdh> it's an ISA combo framegrabber/vga
[10:17:39] <Loetmichel> that is what it looks now:
[10:17:40] <jdh> mine was temporary also
[10:17:49] <jdh> well, it still is temporary
[10:18:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14673&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[10:18:12] <jdh> the hard drive died 4 or 5 years ago so it runs off a floppy
[10:18:34] <jdh> does teh fan not mind running at that angle?
[10:19:10] <Loetmichel> why should it?
[10:19:19] <Loetmichel> ist a bb fan
[10:19:40] <jdh> yeah, just seems like it woudl be happier flat or upright
[10:19:48] <jdh> but, I'm not a fan.
[10:19:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14728 <- have some decent heatsinks on the bitcoin miners now ;-9
[10:20:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14736
[10:20:31] <Loetmichel> :-)
[10:20:39] <CaptHindsight> every 3 months we take compressed air and blast the inside of every PC around here
[10:20:44] <CaptHindsight> works wonders
[10:26:26] <CaptHindsight> my USB microscope arrived to the US from China 3 days ago, now it's bumping around to different post offices :(
[10:26:54] <jmasseo> i use my shopvac
[10:26:55] <jmasseo> first on vacuum
[10:26:56] <jmasseo> then on blow
[10:26:58] <jmasseo> then on vacuum
[10:27:15] <jmasseo> but i only do one or two
[10:27:18] <jmasseo> and it's usually more than 3 months
[10:27:19] <jmasseo> heh
[10:44:21] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i have used my whole workday to cover Servers with filter felt on the front
[10:44:29] <Loetmichel> to prevent dust from coming in
[10:45:16] <humble_sea_bass> my computer is on a wall mounted medical transport chest with a grill and ac filter
[10:45:25] <Loetmichel> because we measure them and "do not open" seal them , so noone can clean them without voiding the Sdip 27 certification
[10:45:25] <CaptHindsight> archivist: you reminded me of a former life, 6GH8 was the most often bad part
[10:45:36] <humble_sea_bass> when not in used i clip on the other half of the medical chest so it is air/watertight
[10:46:46] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: don't you just trade blowing/vacuuming for replacing filters every 90 days?
[10:47:09] <CaptHindsight> in your situation I understand
[10:47:12] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: yeah, but the filters ARE replaceable from the outside ;-)
[10:47:20] <Loetmichel> the case is labeled shut
[10:49:29] <CaptHindsight> just seal them up completely and add http://www.3m.com/product/information/Fluorinert-Electronic-Liquid.html
[10:49:59] <CaptHindsight> if it wasn't $200/gal
[10:51:26] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: we sell them
[10:51:37] <Loetmichel> cant do that with soldiers
[10:51:46] <Loetmichel> ti change the filters is an easy task
[10:51:54] <Loetmichel> to maintain the cooling fuid wouldnt be ;-9
[10:52:31] <CaptHindsight> it would have to be completely sealed and have large fins
[10:52:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13450&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[10:52:47] <Loetmichel> these are the workstations for that order
[10:52:54] <Loetmichel> have no pics of the servers though
[10:53:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13447&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[10:54:45] <Loetmichel> have done that last year on 600 of these cases ;-9
[10:55:11] <CaptHindsight> ever use these? http://us.getac.com/notebooks/index.html
[10:56:41] <Loetmichel> have 17 right here
[10:56:46] <Loetmichel> just packing them ;-9
[10:57:00] <CaptHindsight> any problems?
[10:57:06] <Loetmichel> s400
[10:57:12] <Loetmichel> none that i know of
[10:57:30] <Loetmichel> in fact the supplier is very helpful and has made modifications for us
[10:57:46] <Loetmichel> (different powerr plug, no touchscreen)
[11:04:22] <humble_sea_bass> THAT's a read little laptop
[11:04:44] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/281290349812?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&lpid=95&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=95&ff19=0
[11:04:58] <humble_sea_bass> I want this for entirely irrational reasons
[11:08:55] <nnnnnn> anyone know how to disable the always home
[11:10:16] <skunkworks> nnnnnn, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:TRAJ-section
[11:11:30] <nnnnnn> thanks!
[11:12:31] <skunkworks> np
[11:13:30] <nnnnnn> so in my ini in the traj section i have all of the things in the traj emc info page but i dont have the no force homing part. should I just add it in?
[11:14:16] <CaptHindsight> "The default behavior is for LinuxCNC to force the user to home the machine before any MDI command or a program is run. Normally, only jogging is allowed before homing. Setting NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1 allows the user to make MDI moves and run programs without homing the machine first. Interfaces without homing ability will need to have this option set to 1. "
[11:14:46] <CaptHindsight> "Warning
[11:14:46] <CaptHindsight> Using this will allow the machine to go beyond the soft limits while in operation. It is not generally desirable to allow this."
[11:19:15] <nnnnnn> so i wonder if i should just go for it and just keep my hand on the estop?
[11:19:33] <nnnnnn> it i max the axis out it will throw and error and give a following error
[11:24:07] <nnnnnn> so that worked and the home is off
[11:24:31] <nnnnnn> but it said linear move in line 9 would exceed joint 2's max positive limit
[11:28:32] <nnnnnn> whoa it worked, but the default program that comes with lcnc has too high of a z
[11:28:36] <nnnnnn> is there a way to change that?
[11:28:55] <archivist> edit it
[11:29:06] <CaptHindsight> you mean the g-code or the ini file?
[11:33:06] <nnnnnn> the gcode
[11:33:14] <nnnnnn> the default one the comes with lcnc
[11:33:18] <nnnnnn> i need to edit it
[11:36:17] <nnnnnn> got it, so i can just edit it with gedt right?
[11:39:44] <nnnnnn> is there a way to edit to scale down all of the gcode at one?
[11:39:45] <nnnnnn> once
[11:46:45] <archivist> depends how the gcode is written
[11:47:28] <skunkworks> the 3dchips gcode is scalable in gcode..
[11:48:00] <skunkworks> gcode
[11:48:26] <pcw_home> gcode
[11:48:53] <nnnnnn> 3d chips?
[11:49:06] <nnnnnn> im just trying to use the default lcnc one that comes with it
[11:49:42] <skunkworks> pcw_home, heh. Did you get rt_preemt working on the gigabit with ethernet?
[11:49:48] <pcw_home> Yes
[11:49:58] <skunkworks> nnnnnn, there are a bunch of sample gcode files that come with linuxcnc
[11:50:08] <nnnnnn> the one that writes out linuxcnc
[11:50:10] <skunkworks> pcw_home, working well?
[11:50:11] <pcw_home> 3.12.5 kernel
[11:50:13] <nnnnnn> is the one im using
[11:50:36] <pcw_home> Yes 2 KHz servo thread and flash videos a once
[11:50:43] <pcw_home> at once
[11:51:33] <skunkworks> nice!
[11:51:39] <nnnnnn> is there a better program to try out that comes with lcnc or one that doesnt use the z axis?
[11:52:11] <pcw_home> using on board RTK 8168? for RT and some usb ethernet adapter a found at Goodwill for net
[11:52:16] <Tom_itx> dig thru the example directory to see
[11:53:57] <Loetmichel> *HA* got some e-cig-juice and a few new t3s tanks(e-cig heads)... i think its starting to get a bit out of hand... ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14799
[11:57:58] <nnnnnn> so i found one and ran it but it instantly get a joint following error
[11:58:02] <nnnnnn> no idea why
[12:01:21] <CaptHindsight> nnnnnn: just write a few lines of G-code yourself (yes this comes from the guy that hates to code)
[12:02:20] <nnnnnn> i think the g0 is making it go to fast
[12:02:21] <nnnnnn> ?
[12:03:11] <Tom_itx> rapid move
[12:03:29] <Tom_itx> not a feed move
[12:03:34] <Tom_itx> G1 is a linear feed move
[12:03:51] <pcw_home> skunkworks: the dual MAC/quad core one is starting to show up also:
[12:03:53] <pcw_home> http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-1900D3V
[12:04:55] <nnnnnn> G0 rapid move
[12:05:11] <nnnnnn> makes it initally go really fast and loose tracking
[12:05:34] <pcw_home> How is your tuning?
[12:06:13] <nnnnnn> i havent done pwm tuning yet
[12:06:19] <nnnnnn> is that the problem?
[12:06:22] <nnnnnn> probably....
[12:06:27] <pcw_home> likely to be
[12:06:46] <nnnnnn> that would totally make sense
[12:06:46] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I have the Tool Changer script finished I think.
[12:06:55] <Connor> with exception to spindle orintation.
[12:06:57] <nnnnnn> is the right way to do the tuning the zeiger nichols way?
[12:07:05] <Connor> orientation.
[12:07:12] <pcw_home> no
[12:07:14] <CaptHindsight> nnnnnn: just move it slowly for now until you have time to tune it
[12:07:48] <pcw_home> or widen the following error limits
[12:08:12] <Connor> pcw_home: Nice board, had me till I read it was a Celeron..
[12:08:28] <pcw_home> celeron is just a name
[12:08:43] <pcw_home> its really closer to a core Dou
[12:09:36] <PetefromTn_> Connor Wow totally awesome man. I am off today and just got back from Knoxvegas with a big chunka aluminum barstock for more of those parts I am making.
[12:09:46] <Connor> Cool.
[12:09:53] <pcw_home> 2-3 x as fast as the atoms, great latency and lower power
[12:10:00] <PetefromTn_> I am going to try to machine the encoder mount I designed this weekend hopefully.
[12:10:10] <Connor> Cool.
[12:10:27] <pcw_home> But... need new kernel to support the Intel HD graphics
[12:10:41] <Connor> Ick. Figures
[12:11:00] <PetefromTn_> I am quite happy with my Atom board thus far.
[12:11:20] <pcw_home> but have no trouble running 1080P and linuxCNC at the same time
[12:11:28] <nnnnnn> interesting i dont have a joint 3 in my gcode but got a joint 3 following error
[12:11:32] <pcw_home> and 4 KHz servo threads
[12:11:42] <PetefromTn_> So we can view our toolpaths in High Definition video?
[12:12:14] <CaptHindsight> heh we were gaming while running Linuxnc in 1080p
[12:12:38] <Connor> PetefromTn_: We STILL need to decide on handling the 180 out. If the MESA card is going to do it, then pcw_home needs to tell us how to do it exactly and get us the firmware..
[12:12:45] <Connor> No CLUE how to do it in hall..
[12:12:53] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: high res simulations
[12:12:54] <Connor> I mean HAL
[12:13:09] <PetefromTn_> sure..
[12:13:24] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: auto ZERO and HD video while cutting
[12:13:32] <nnnnnn> how can i get rid of joint 3 in my gcode?
[12:13:41] <nnnnnn> i dont have it in my gcode but it said i got a following error
[12:13:43] <Connor> and hardware solution is good.. but, not sure how to figure out differential signal for it.. pcw_home Do we have to have differential signal for the index ?
[12:13:47] <nnnnnn> is there a way to disable it in the ini
[12:15:28] <pcw_home> I think a hal comp can do this but its a bit tricky because index_enable is bidirectional
[12:17:32] <nnnnnn> weird
[12:19:10] <Connor> pcw_home: That's just the thing.. making a new component requires coding.. I've never made a component..
[12:20:00] <Connor> I can build the hardware solution easy enough.. I just need to know if you can have differential inputs for A and B, and not for Z
[12:20:20] <pcw_home> Yes
[12:21:06] <PetefromTn_> Man I think LinuxCNC maybe NEEDs a better component for this type of toolchanger that can be altered for ones needs.
[12:21:10] <Connor> then, easy enough.. tie the +24v to the input side of opto, tie the Z+ into the +5vcc side of opto and tie output to MESA card
[12:21:16] <pcw_home> you would need to take the 24V prox signal level shift and mask the encoder Z signal with it
[12:22:00] <Connor> when prox + Z high = high on output.
[12:22:44] <pcw_home> Yeah just a transmission gate (though you will probably need a pullup or pulldown resistor in the index input)
[12:22:59] <pcw_home> on the index input
[12:23:08] <Connor> on the mesa side?
[12:23:16] <pcw_home> Yes
[12:23:22] <Connor> probably a pulldown
[12:24:05] <pcw_home> The 7I77 has a pullup on the TTL input so you may want to choose the active low encoder Z pin
[12:24:06] <Connor> I can bread board the circuit and test it.. and check the output with my digital o-scope.
[12:24:23] <Connor> Z- ?
[12:24:33] <pcw_home> probably
[12:26:57] <pcw_home> a more general solution for this kind of thing would be a software
[12:26:59] <pcw_home> index mask input (a hm2 driver change)
[12:27:00] <pcw_home> so you would have hm2_5i25.0.encoder.03.index_mask
[12:27:22] <pcw_home> and just wire than in HAL to the prox pin
[12:27:31] <PetefromTn_> that sounds nice and easier to wire up LOL...
[12:30:08] <Connor> well, who can make the change to the hm2 driver ?:)
[12:30:47] <Connor> and, would that be a GPIO pin or another encoder pin ?
[12:32:02] <pcw_home> it would be a HAL input pint to the hm2 encoder comp
[12:32:08] <pcw_home> pin
[12:32:25] * skunkworks would like a pint right now...
[12:32:38] <pcw_home> :-)
[12:32:39] <Connor> okay.. so, then we could tie what ever hardware pin to that then..
[12:33:05] <pcw_home> yes all in hal (as long as 1 KHz or so sampling is OK)
[12:33:16] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 Ya there man?
[12:33:34] <Connor> which is typically okay on Atom PC's
[12:34:13] <Connor> who maintains the hm2 comp ?
[12:34:19] <PetefromTn_> how would the 1k affect the performance of the machine?
[12:34:59] <pcw_home> 1 KHz is usually for good velocity mode drives
[12:35:08] <pcw_home> usually fine
[12:35:26] <R2E4_> What do you have to change in the firmware. IS it for the toolchanger?
[12:35:35] <PetefromTn_> well we are running the spindle in velocity mode apparently. so it is all good then?
[12:35:45] <pcw_home> no firmware changes
[12:36:35] <R2E4_> whew, Cause I am going to probably do somethiung similar for my tool changer as i need Y movement during a tool change.
[12:36:40] <pcw_home> unless the spindle is a servo, the thread rate is pretty much dont care for it
[12:37:08] <PetefromTn_> Huh what does that mean?
[12:38:03] <R2E4_> Is that wuestion aimed at me?
[12:38:24] <PetefromTn_> No what do you mean the thread rate pretty much don't care for it?
[12:39:03] <Connor> okay.. found the drivers in /src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2
[12:39:09] <Connor> wow.. I have NO idea where to start...
[12:39:32] <PetefromTn_> Jeez man if YOU don't have any idea where to start I would say we are screwd LOL....
[12:39:40] <Connor> Nah.
[12:41:04] <Connor> This would be probably 4-10 lines worth of code in the driver to handle this.. add new pin (1 or 2 lines.. ), and a few lines to tie that new pin into the index to AND the two values together.. 4-6 lines maybe ?
[12:41:33] <Connor> I just not comfortable doing it..
[12:43:56] <Connor> pcw_home: Wouldn't we need some sort of pin or parameter to enable z-index mask ?
[12:44:37] <pcw_home> it could default to enabled
[12:45:07] <Connor> so, default it to high.. then no need to have a enable pin..
[12:47:10] <pcw_home> but its a bit tricky since the drive would have to enable and disable
[12:47:12] <pcw_home> the hardware index enable bit in the CCR and not report index detected status if masked
[12:47:17] <CaptHindsight> PCW: what kinds of motors can we control now over GbEthernet to 2Khz?
[12:47:56] <pcw_home> any the HM2 can control (though its just 100BT)
[12:48:27] <CaptHindsight> great
[12:48:53] <Connor> pcw_home: Now you lost me.
[12:49:12] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: how are they connected? point to point or multiple through a switch?
[13:00:29] <Connor> 01:40:48 PM) seb_kuzminsky: hmm, dont we already have that? i'm looking at the hostmot2 manpage, encoder section, and it describes what i think i said above
[13:00:29] <Connor> (01:41:18 PM) seb_kuzminsky: (bit r/w) index-mask
[13:00:29] <Connor> (01:41:19 PM) seb_kuzminsky: If set to True, the Index input pin only has an effect if the Index-Mask input pin is True (or False, depending on the index-mask-invert pin below).
[13:01:17] <Connor> (01:42:32 PM) seb_kuzminsky: i think that feature needs special firmware support that's maybe not present in all the hm2 firmwares we ship currently
[13:01:18] <Connor> (01:42:40 PM) seb_kuzminsky: peter might know about that part
[13:01:20] <Connor> pcw_home: ?
[13:05:10] <pcw_home> Thats if you use a external mask input pin
[13:07:10] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[13:07:50] <Connor> okay... which.. th 7i77 doesn't have ?
[13:08:38] <pcw_home> thats another possibility (use a spare 7I77 encoder input pin as index mask) but I'm pretty sure that needs driver work
[13:08:39] <pcw_home> (though its simpler than adding the software index mask)
[13:09:51] <pcw_home> The reason it needs driver work is thats a muxed index mask so the driver needs to accept a muxed_index_mask_ pin
[13:10:43] <pcw_home> (I have a feeling it will bail with an unknown pin error now but I guess it could be tried)
[13:11:01] <Connor> Well.. both of those solutions require help from the community / driver maintainer.. so.. I'm kinda stuck..
[13:11:58] <pcw_home> I can build a config with a couple muxed index masks and see what the driver does
[13:12:09] <Connor> Would you?
[13:12:27] <Connor> please.. This is the finial step.. I just finished up the tool changer remap code..
[13:12:36] <pcw_home> you would still need to level shift the 24V down to TTL for the encoder input
[13:12:45] <Connor> we can test that.. but will have to orientate the spindle manually...
[13:12:56] <Connor> crud..
[13:13:10] <Connor> which means.. a opto...
[13:17:17] <pcw_home> well you could cheat and connect the prox to a field input, hal wire the prox signal to a GPIO bit on P2
[13:17:19] <pcw_home> loop the GPIO bit on P2 back to the adjacent bit (which I setup as index mask in the firmware)
[13:18:26] <Connor> Will we have any issues with the read frequency on the GPIO? Will it be fast enough ?
[13:18:30] <pcw_home> so the hardware consists of a 0.1" slider on two P2 pins
[13:18:57] <pcw_home> I dont think so
[13:18:58] <Connor> or a bit of wire..
[13:19:38] <pcw_home> not that your are going to be orienting/treading at 6KRPM
[13:20:00] <Connor> Wait, he's field voltage is 24v
[13:20:20] <Connor> I don't think he has a 5v field voltage.
[13:20:30] <pcw_home> Thats fine
[13:21:04] <PetefromTn_> We will probably never rigid tap above 1k RPM and indexing spindle will be done probably below a couple hundred or lower I would assume.
[13:21:15] <Connor> so you can take a 24v GPIO and loop it back into a encoder input ?
[13:21:24] <pcw_home> PROX --> 24V Field input --> HALpin --> GPIO bit --> INDEXMASK
[13:22:00] <pcw_home> nothing connected to P2 just a jumper between two pins
[13:22:58] <Connor> okay.. one sec.. let me get this.. prox into 24v GPIO input pin.
[13:23:15] <pcw_home> NO NO NO
[13:23:30] <Connor> ok
[13:23:38] <pcw_home> 24V prox into 24V field input
[13:24:15] <Connor> okay. let me grab pdf of the 7i77 board..
[13:24:21] <pcw_home> this gives you a hal pin thats is the index mask signal
[13:25:18] <Connor> okay, what are you clling a 24v field input? the IN 0..15 and IN 16..32 ?
[13:26:03] <pcw_home> Yes
[13:26:21] <Connor> okay.. I was calling that a GPIO
[13:26:41] <pcw_home> since they are already designed for 24V IO
[13:26:57] <pcw_home> GPIO are bare FPGA pins
[13:27:30] <Connor> OH. Okay.
[13:27:38] <Connor> Sorry.
[13:27:49] <PetefromTn_> SO wiring this up would be simply encoder in on spindle axis inputs and prox in on an I/0....
[13:28:23] <Connor> okay..so, once into that pin.. use hal to cross connect the Field I/O pin to the encoder pin used for mask_input
[13:28:25] <PetefromTn_> We already have the prox switches wired into inputs on the 7i77 and it is working in software.
[13:28:32] <pcw_home> Yes (and a 2 pin slider on P2 say from pin 1 to 2)
[13:28:49] <Connor> okay, what does THAT do ?
[13:28:52] <PetefromTn_> what is a 2 pin slider?
[13:29:16] <IchGuckLive> switch i asume
[13:29:18] <pcw_home> like the ones used to set encoder mode
[13:29:25] <Connor> right.. Jumper
[13:29:36] <Connor> like you find on motherboards, hard drivers etc..
[13:30:58] <PetefromTn_> what is P2?
[13:31:06] <pcw_home> so in hal you wire the prox signal to an output on P2 pin1 (GPIO17)
[13:31:08] <pcw_home> and i make firmware that has index mask for (what channel) on P2 pin2 (GPIO18)
[13:32:05] <pcw_home> P2 on the 5I25
[13:32:17] <Connor> Yea, I JUST figured that out.
[13:33:08] <PetefromTn_> So we have to run the signals to the front of the machine then that kinda sucks...and may also be a signal loss issue no?
[13:33:10] <Connor> So, jumper Pin1 and Pin2 in the P2 (the 26 pin connector) on the 5i25 board
[13:33:17] <pcw_home> sorry I swim in this stuff so forget that not everyone does
[13:33:23] <pcw_home> Yes
[13:33:33] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Kinda, it's internal though.
[13:33:37] <Connor> no signal issue.
[13:33:55] <pcw_home> the wire is 0.1" long
[13:34:03] <Connor> exactly.
[13:34:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah but you said the prox signal needs to get there...
[13:35:02] <pcw_home> well it does but through HAL
[13:35:10] <Connor> Prox signal will be on a Field I/O pin on the 7i77 board.. just like it is now..
[13:35:16] <PetefromTn_> but the prox will be on the 7i77
[13:35:31] <PetefromTn_> and the encoder inputs as well.
[13:35:39] <Connor> I the hal wire the pin to the GPIO pin on the 2nd connector on 5i25
[13:35:57] <pcw_home> all nasty wiring in HAL
[13:35:59] <Connor> then jumper that to GPIO pin 2 in second connecotr.
[13:36:07] <PetefromTn_> then yeah a simple jumper on the 5i25 is simple enough LOL.
[13:36:38] <Connor> he makes custom firmware that uses P2 Pin2 s mask-input
[13:36:55] <Connor> that way, you don't end up using a encoder input on the 7i77
[13:37:02] <Connor> and you have your mask. :)
[13:37:10] <Connor> pcw_home: I following correctly now ?
[13:37:25] <PetefromTn_> Oh really I do not need to use an encoder input? How?
[13:37:33] <pcw_home> a little M^2 but should work fine
[13:38:08] <PetefromTn_> M2?
[13:38:28] <pcw_home> Micky-Mouse
[13:38:38] <PetefromTn_> Amazing to me how I NEVER understand what the hell you guys are talking about hehe
[13:38:44] <Connor> couldn't we just hal wire the Field IO pin straight to the P2 Pin2 I/O and loose the jumper?
[13:39:06] <Connor> not understanding why we have to use 2 GPIO
[13:39:10] <Connor> not that it matters...
[13:39:24] <pcw_home> you cannot set a input pin (like index mask) to output mode
[13:39:57] <pcw_home> (if its enabled and that encoder needs to be enabled)
[13:40:12] <PetefromTn_> What is Mickey Mouse about this? I don't like the sound of Mickey Mousing something that will affect the safety of my toolchanger movements guys.
[13:40:58] <Connor> okay, so.. to toggle the pin via hal, it has to be in output mode?
[13:41:29] <pcw_home> I just mean It would be nicer if the HM2 encoder had a software index mask for this kind of problem
[13:42:36] <pcw_home> looping it back through I/O is a workaround (though its not any kind of reliability issue)
[13:43:04] <PetefromTn_> How difficult is it to do it the right way?
[13:43:10] <pcw_home> if you worried about it you can verify its working
[13:43:20] <pcw_home> driver work
[13:44:11] <Connor> and this 2nd solution we just talked about.. would require a firmware update too? Or was this a way to get around that ?
[13:44:15] <pcw_home> I mean there nothing wrong and long as you dont need to use P2
[13:44:33] <Connor> I don't think he'll ever need P2
[13:44:44] <Connor> although.. I forgot you had that peat..
[13:45:09] <PetefromTn_> What the hell is P2? I am so lost
[13:45:37] <PetefromTn_> Is this the connector on the 5i25 that will accept another board we are talking about?
[13:45:40] <pcw_home> The 5I25 has 2 daughtercard connnectors, you are just using one (P3)
[13:46:31] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You mean the pendant card? No.. that's used off of the 7i77
[13:46:44] <Connor> P2 is so you could hook up another 7i77 card
[13:47:42] <PetefromTn_> The only additional hardware short of making the toolchanger and spindle feedback work is I was considering adding that card Pete spoke about that runs off the 5i25 that allows lots of additonal I/0 for buttons on the control pendant up front...
[13:48:28] <pcw_home> you can do that with a 7I73 or 7I84 running from the 7I77 Sserial expansion port
[13:49:02] <Connor> yea, that's the pendant card.
[13:49:14] <Connor> though, you could use a simple breakout on the P2
[13:49:21] <PetefromTn_> what was that card you were talking about that runs off the 5i25 up front in the pendant for more I/0 buttons without tons of more wiring.
[13:49:24] <Connor> or just run wire straight the I/O
[13:49:50] <Connor> 7i73
[13:50:00] <Connor> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i73man.pdf
[13:50:20] <Connor> 7I73 supports up to four  50KHz encoder inputs for MPGs, 8 digital inputs and 6 digital outputs and up to a 64 Key keypad. If a smaller keypad is 
[13:50:36] <Connor> gotta go get lunch
[13:50:38] <Connor> back in a few
[13:51:30] <PetefromTn_> I really do not need a special keypad I was gonna just get some buttons and machine a new pendant faceplate.
[13:51:35] <PetefromTn_> Okay enjoy.
[14:21:07] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_: if you want to use a cheaper break out connected to P2 then we need to use the software solution.
[14:21:31] <Connor_iPad> If you use the pendant card. It plugs into the 7i77.
[14:21:58] <Connor_iPad> Or you can just run wires back the I/O on the 7i77
[14:26:27] <IchGuckLive> im off bye
[14:28:14] <PetefromTn_> Okay man I suppose either the pendant card or the wires will be fine I don't plan on adding tons of buttons maybe a dozen or so down the road at most and there is ample I/0 available already back there. Maybe I can get a many strand shielded cable like we used for the Modbus control to do it.
[14:28:36] <PetefromTn_> Watching Videos on mastercam on youtube right now. Trying to figure out this damn program.
[14:35:38] <humble_sea_bass> Pete, there is little logic behind it. Even the current one has that 1980's UI feel
[14:37:27] <PetefromTn_> Yeah totally right but it is what ALL the local shops use and I am working temporarily in a shop that uses it. They want me to be able to do my own programming of parts so I am more useful to them with it.
[14:38:24] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully if I can learn the basics of it and start doing some simpler stuff for them I will be able to do that and possibly get paid more for it as well. Mostly I want to be able to say that I can use it for when I move back to Florida so if I need to work for someone else I can have that in my toolkit.
[14:38:30] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: put in the values and then you turn the crank on the screen?
[14:39:31] <PetefromTn_> actually it sticks out the back of the monitor...
[14:40:28] <humble_sea_bass> CaptHindsight: That ain't too far off. Those cats at Mastercam don't seem to know that you;'re no longer bound to DOS like prompts and workflows
[14:41:24] <humble_sea_bass> I have no idea how mastercam got to be so popular given its esoteric workflow
[14:42:09] <CaptHindsight> they are everywhere
[14:42:19] <PetefromTn_> I know but it does have some of the best toolpath strategies around and they have Mastercam X7 or 9 or something so it is pretty recent.
[14:42:24] <CaptHindsight> pretty aggressive sales team
[14:43:12] <CaptHindsight> i think the robot simulation package brings the price >$20K
[14:44:06] <PetefromTn_> just freakin' nutz...
[14:45:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.robotmaster.com/
[14:54:44] <humble_sea_bass> my college is still holding on to mastercam 9 (not X lics)
[14:55:02] <humble_sea_bass> if you think X is bad, hoo boy
[15:18:58] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I need you to confirm the Tool present sensor only works AFTER the PDB is closed.. I don't think it can sense the tool when the PDB is open.
[15:19:25] <Connor> also, See if you can figure out the safe height and tool change height..
[15:19:46] <Connor> best way to do that is to probably manually move the ram in.. and slowly bring the head down after homing.
[15:22:59] <PetefromTn_> Connor define open or closed...
[15:25:04] <PetefromTn_> actually I can just jog the head to a position close and adjust with the MPG until I can seat the toolchanger ram onto the tool with the pocket fingers. I actually had to do that already when I first got the machine working we had to reinstall the software as the parameters were lost due to a bad Cmos battery.
[15:26:12] <PetefromTn_> I will try to do that this evening. I am having to go to the store for shopping here now.
[15:26:59] <PetefromTn_> You are really ready to try this out once we get the spindle feedback and orientation working huh.. Eggcelent Egor the Monster will LIVE SOON!!
[15:28:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPvxShlrm58 "3D Printing: The Business Opportunities" it ignores much of the FDM junk
[15:29:31] <XXCoder> "I feel so tight" gonna love autocapotion
[15:29:41] <XXCoder> "sweetie printing" lol
[15:30:01] <XXCoder> "lazy talent" I think I got that
[15:32:31] <XXCoder> some autocaptions is good enough for me to follow. not this one unfortunately.
[15:32:59] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's his thick British accent
[15:33:27] <CaptHindsight> can you tweak your settings to UK English?
[15:33:49] <XXCoder> probably? dunno. nah only one, autocaption english
[15:45:17] <Connor> Open = PDB active i.E. Clamp Opened / Closed - PDB not active, Clamp Closed
[15:46:28] <PCW> Connor: which encoder needs the index mask?
[15:55:31] <PetefromTn_> Connor How about simply clamped or unclamped clamped being air pressure to drawbar is off and tool is locked in or unclamped and tool is out air pressure to PDB is on.
[15:57:39] <Connor> PCW which ever one is normally used for spindle..
[15:57:58] <Connor> Clamp On and Clamp Off are sensors, PDB is output..
[15:58:13] <Connor> So, PDB ON = Clamp Off
[16:00:05] <alex001> Hello... it is possible somehow from the python linuxcnc api to change some global variables prior to running a program file ?
[16:01:03] <andypugh> alex001: mdi(“#100 = 100”) ?
[16:01:07] <Connor> PCW: hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05
[16:01:14] <Connor> looks to be the one we're using for spindle
[16:01:39] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I think there are six starting with zero so yeah the last one is for spindle input.
[16:03:03] <PetefromTn_> Jeez man this Mastercam is WAY complicated to generate a simple pocket. Just lots of options that can get confusing.
[16:03:54] <humble_sea_bass> did you know that mastercam has a lucrative educational business called mastercam U
[16:05:25] <Connor_iPad> CamBam is just dirt simple. I like it.
[16:06:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah Cambam is quite simple yet has some neat stuff included. Mastercam is another level of complexity from what I am seeing in these videos.
[16:07:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah so they make it difficult to understand then they sell schooling for it for profit....Devious....
[16:09:26] <Connor_iPad> What features does MC have that would be useful to hobbiest?
[16:12:11] <alex001> andypugh, I will try that.. I was wondering if there was a way where I did not had to change between auto and mdi mode
[16:12:37] <PetefromTn_> TONS of stuff... but no hobbyist could afford it LOL... It has some crazy pocketing toolpaths, trochoidal milling. a bunch of 3d toolpaths and each toolpath has WAY more options for the cut
[16:13:41] <PetefromTn_> it also has a bunch of HSM toolpaths and adaptive clearing most of which even the pro shop I am working in never gets used.
[16:14:00] <Connor_iPad> HSM?
[16:14:20] <PetefromTn_> Quite honestly while I have not worked there so far too long most of the stuff they are doing is quite boring LOL.
[16:14:25] <PetefromTn_> High speed machining
[16:14:41] <PetefromTn_> The vast majority of it could easily be done with camBam.
[16:15:42] <PetefromTn_> I showed them the part I did for that scope rail pictures on my phone and they were like WOW that is a sweet part LOL.. Mostly they make fixture parts and custom brackets etc for industry.
[16:15:55] <PetefromTn_> The Lathe work however is a different story...
[16:17:11] <PetefromTn_> The guy who runs the lathes is VERY skilled and the parts that come out of that side of the shop are gorgeous and are everthing from simple threaded shafts to large diameter turnings with crazy angles and precision bores to teeny tiny parts that I dunno how the hell they made them..
[16:17:54] <PetefromTn_> One thing is for sure they are beautiful looking parts with unbelievable finishes I would die to be able to reproduce on my POS chinko lathe LOL.
[16:18:38] <PetefromTn_> I tried to talk to that guy but he is a very large quiet reserved man and while he was friendly he did not enjoy discussing the particulars of how he programs them.
[16:19:28] <PetefromTn_> Refreshingly the Mill guys are very open and enjoy discussing options and strategies for parts I think it helps them get their head wrapped around a project like me.
[16:20:17] <Connor_iPad> Wonder why he didn't want to talk about how he programs his stuff ?
[16:24:35] <PetefromTn_> Well the other guy there is a manual mill guy and he has a bunch of CNC lathe experience from a previous employer and he was willing to talk about it. I have shown my interest to all of them in learning to program the lathes so perhaps in time they will give me a walk thru of a pre programmed part that I can run like some kinda production and maybe then I can learn what is going on.
[16:26:24] <PetefromTn_> If nothing else working there will help me get back on track with my bills a bit and I will learn a BUNCH of new stuff about how the Pro's work.
[16:26:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA5BTD-aelo Build a $10 USB visible-light spectrometer
[16:27:36] <PetefromTn_> I think the sheer volume and differences between the parts being made there puts you in a position to learn many different ways to do things and what works and what does not. It is already quite interesting if not stressful to understand what is going on as things move quickly.
[16:28:26] <PetefromTn_> You quickly see what is important to do and what is just a time waster. I found lots of things I was doing on a simple setup that are just kinda stupid as well as picking up offsets etc...
[16:29:40] <PetefromTn_> When they are showing me something new I often have to ask them to do it again they move so quickly thru settings and mashing buttons on the control I kinda feel like I am a kindergartner in High school.
[16:30:33] <PetefromTn_> So far they are very cool about it and are always saying they would MUCH rather I ask a question and understand what the hell I am doing then try to guess and screw something up. That is refreshing but I try to NOT waste their time as much as possible.
[16:46:46] <andypugh> I seem to be able to get really god finishes on my Chinese lathe, I think it comes down to tweaking the surface speed.
[16:47:01] <andypugh> The lathe is dreadful, I can parely part for chatter.
[16:48:03] <PetefromTn_> Oh don't get me wrong I love my lathe but it does not compare to the machines or the tooling they have there...
[16:48:07] <andypugh> As an example, that ballscrew is straight off the lathe, no polishing or grinding. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fwkHFH8rDfnhI4TpUL4EGtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:49:16] <andypugh> But every time i use a proper lathe (like the Colchesrer Student I sometimes use) I start to hate my Chinese thing.
[16:53:00] <andypugh> I still prefer lathe work to mill work. I wonder if it is because you rarely have to spend time thinking about setup?
[17:05:49] <Deejay> gn8
[17:06:16] <CaptHindsight> ballscrews with threads on the end!? you could probably set preloads on the bearings that way :)
[17:08:44] <andypugh> Surely using the couplings would be better :-)
[17:34:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Staubli-RS60-Linear-Motion-Articulating-Arm-4-Axis-Robot-w-BOSCH-Controller-/360817594206?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5402678f5e $899.95
[18:08:02] <gene78> puzzle, parport.17.out-invert and parport.17.invert are both illegal. what is proper syntax?
[18:09:14] <gene78> puzzle, parport.0.pin-17-out-invert and parport.0.pin-17-invert are both illegal. what is proper syntax?
[18:11:30] <PCW> halcmd show pin
[18:12:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amonstar.com/photo/d3040cty/d5.jpg heh, this version gets the ballscrews right but uses unsupported bearings
[18:13:17] <gene78> segfault Peter
[18:14:14] <PCW> while linuxcnc is running?
[18:24:09] <XXCoder> just got calipers. of course its bit dirty
[18:25:28] <XXCoder> dunno why but chinese stuff tend to be, expecially if tools
[18:29:57] <gene78> Peter, no. It won't run with the syntax the manpages claim
[18:32:24] <gene78> but my back is fini, so after gooping the cable anchor on my encoder board because it wont work with the cover (it is not touching), I am headed for the house
[18:39:23] <PCW> conner: freeby.mesanet.com/5i25_7i77x1_IMS.bit
[18:39:50] <PCW> works for me (but linuxcnc has to be running)
[18:41:32] <Connor> pcw: has to be running ?
[18:41:41] <Connor> why wouldn't it be running?
[18:42:44] <PCW> that was for gene
[18:42:55] <Connor> Oh.
[18:43:08] <PCW> (halcmd wont run unless rt/linuxcnc is running)
[18:43:13] <Connor> right.
[18:43:32] <Connor> okay.. so.. how do we load this firmwre?
[18:44:00] <PCW> mesaflash
[18:44:53] <PCW> sudo ./mesaflash --device 5i25 --write 5i25_7i77x1_IMS.bit
[18:45:14] <PCW> (then power cycle. reboot wont do)
[18:45:50] <Connor> okay.. downloaded the utils for the 5i25
[18:45:53] <Connor> what's mesaflash3 ?
[19:09:20] <andypugh> Connor: Newest Mesaflash. I think that is the one that does ethernet cards too.
[19:09:52] <andypugh> gene78: Still there?
[19:10:54] <PCW> Ethernet and 7I90 via EPP
[19:12:05] <PCW> mesaflash3 currently wont run on 10.04
[19:12:36] <andypugh> That seems a bit unfortunate
[19:14:45] <PCW> I guess you can build it on 10.04
[19:20:14] <PetefromTn_> Well just got back from shopping for groceries. AMAZES me what a family of four can eat in a week around here.
[19:22:47] <XXCoder> lol
[19:25:14] <andypugh> It amazes me how long a singleton who hates to shop can last on the food in the house. :-) i have managed 3 weeks on a 1 week shop :-)
[19:26:16] <XXCoder> :D
[19:26:26] <XXCoder> you should check out soylent then andy
[19:26:39] <andypugh> I have “reserves” that I don’t want
[19:26:56] <XXCoder> can make homebrew version, buy month worth, cook only when you wanna enjoy food
[19:27:03] <XXCoder> just mix and drink otherwise
[19:32:19] <micges> building mesaflash on 10.04 or 12.04 is painless
[20:20:01] <andypugh> How do you change the DRO format in Axis? I have at least once told someone how to do it (and it is easy) but I am struggling tonight.
[20:20:06] <Connor> neither one will run on my 12.04 LTS says something about libpci3
[20:20:38] <Connor> but, this isn't a linuxcnc install.. and no 5i25 installed.
[20:21:48] <andypugh> I don’t think Mesaflash needs anything except the hardware
[20:43:34] <R2E4_> evening
[21:25:24] <andypugh> Morning
[21:29:21] <XXCoder1> afternoon. hows ya
[21:37:16] <skunkworks> andypugh: did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp0ZpxsgxVs
[21:38:53] <andypugh> No, but it looks pretty stiff for the size and useful.
[21:39:40] <skunkworks> it is pretty stout - for a short thing...
[21:41:24] <XXCoder1> I cant wait to see it fully functiona;
[21:41:53] <skunkworks> oh - do you think we here actually finish things?
[21:42:00] <XXCoder1> lol
[21:46:00] <skunkworks> it has about .005" backlash in x.. Could use some nice cheap ball screws..
[21:46:15] <skunkworks> the nuts are adjustable but we have not looked at them
[21:50:27] <tjtr33> skunkworks, nice vid, is that the new TP?
[21:52:52] <zeeshan|2> yay
[21:52:57] <skunkworks> yes
[21:53:00] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/9Tiyo8m.jpg
[21:53:01] <zeeshan|2> :D
[21:53:06] <skunkworks> tjtr33: yes
[21:55:18] <tjtr33> impressive 2 ways then
[21:58:50] <skunkworks> I think with hardware stepgen - or maybe some more tweeking - that little thing would run 200ipm...
[22:28:23] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: You need to eat less red stuff :-)
[22:28:38] <zeeshan|2> iphone sux @ taking pics
[22:28:38] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:30:02] <XXCoder1> lol
[22:30:14] <XXCoder1> I wonder if theres way to make sphere by 2.5 axis machine
[22:30:27] <zeeshan|2> yea
[22:30:30] <zeeshan|2> its called using a lathe!
[22:30:30] <zeeshan|2> :P
[22:30:31] <XXCoder1> I know half of one can be made but dunno how to secure it when its flipped
[22:30:36] <XXCoder1> lol
[22:30:40] <XXCoder1> true I guess
[22:30:51] <andypugh> Which iPhone? I sold my iPhone 4S to friend and he has largely abandoned his point-and-shoot camera. (and he is a keen photographer, he owns a http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/lenses/primes/extreme-tele/K1000f8.html
[22:30:54] <Tom_itx> epoxy in a fixture
[22:31:11] <zeeshan|2> the way i'd do it is machine a round stock with the imprint of a hemisphere
[22:31:23] <zeeshan|2> then i'd remove it, and put a stock and make a sphere as best as possible wit hthe lathe
[22:31:34] <zeeshan|2> then i'd stick the sphere in the hemisphere
[22:31:41] <zeeshan|2> and machine off the rest
[22:31:45] <XXCoder1> really if has lathe no reason to use 2.5 xis at first place
[22:31:56] <humble_sea_bass> the 4s was the first "ok" camera on an iphone
[22:31:58] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: iphone 4
[22:31:58] <humble_sea_bass> still p bad
[22:32:15] <zeeshan|2> i'm not much into phones
[22:32:31] <zeeshan|2> my phone is mainly for calling , web surfing when im at a shop trying to find a part
[22:32:37] <zeeshan|2> and email ;p
[22:32:45] <zeeshan|2> camera is just an added benefit!
[22:32:55] <humble_sea_bass> i use a crap ass galaxy nexus whuich i love love love
[22:33:06] <humble_sea_bass> but the camera is hot garbage
[22:33:10] <XXCoder1> I use touchpad modified to have cm11
[22:33:18] <XXCoder1> camera almost couldnt be shitter
[22:33:25] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:33:46] <XXCoder1> weird thing is that it takes better pics than orginial webos.
[22:34:01] <andypugh> I actually use my iPhone more than my “real” camera because it is a shorter lens, and the image really is pretty good
[22:34:11] <humble_sea_bass> XX do you use a choclear
[22:34:27] <XXCoder1> what for? its been 38 years, lil late lol
[22:34:36] <XXCoder1> I literally dont have brain parts for hearing now
[22:35:13] <XXCoder1> well I still have some but you know what happens to body parts that dont get used.
[22:35:39] <humble_sea_bass> meh, you'd be surprised. my friend got the most amazing unit though with bluetooth, so her iphone beams everthing into her skull which is pretty rad
[22:35:53] <humble_sea_bass> like a fancy induction loop
[22:35:55] <XXCoder1> lol guess so, but was your friend late deafened?
[22:36:17] <XXCoder1> or had it since before 13 yr old?
[22:36:27] <andypugh> I have read that by the age of 4 japanese kids can no longer learn to tell “L” from “R”
[22:36:58] <humble_sea_bass> she always had hearing issues, but then got hit by a truck and lost sight as well, so technology and the choclear are supper important
[22:37:18] <humble_sea_bass> andypugh: stop that
[22:37:18] <XXCoder1> yeah even partial hearing allows brain to develop hearing centers normally
[22:37:43] <XXCoder1> I'm one of fairly rare 100% deaf. most deaf has slight trace of hearing. so they can hear boomboxes
[22:37:47] <XXCoder1> I cant lol
[22:38:02] <XXCoder1> I literally read book right in front of one boombox, it was great massage
[22:38:07] <humble_sea_bass> I understand the issue with pathways etc,
[22:39:01] <andypugh> humble_sea_bass: Stop what?
[22:39:20] <humble_sea_bass> spreading false fact about the letter R and L
[22:39:37] <humble_sea_bass> they are not equivalent
[22:40:28] <XXCoder1> anyway I see no reason whatever to turn from deaf into crappy hearing person
[22:40:41] <XXCoder1> I got great deaf family, I work at deaf company, so on
[22:41:27] <humble_sea_bass> I also undestand deaf culture and how it is pretty tight
[22:44:20] <XXCoder1> its oretty cool I guess. its bit hard to think of external view of culture LOL
[22:44:30] <andypugh> Photos: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649 has a mix of “real camera” and “iphone” pics (and you can read which in the right-hand pane, I think) Hard to see any systematic difference.
[22:45:28] <humble_sea_bass> i know ppl that live on different parts of the hard of hearing /deaf spectrum and the changes they've observed socially etc
[22:46:07] <andypugh> And the iPhone 5 camera is better again. it seems to break all the rules I learned in Optics at college.
[22:46:59] <XXCoder1> you heard of "ILY" handsign? lately I keep hearing that deaf stole it from hearing culture
[22:47:12] <XXCoder1> ugg yeah right. I have been using it since late 70s
[22:47:22] <XXCoder1> when I'm 4 or so
[22:47:37] <andypugh> (perhaps not, a very sensitive pinhole camera is almost ideal, so a tiny lens and a very good sensor might be great)
[22:48:13] <XXCoder1> I heard its sensor size that matters more, but then I'm no photography exper
[22:49:32] <andypugh> humble_sea_bass: Are you sure that the L/R thing is a false fact?
[22:50:44] <humble_sea_bass> it wouldn't be fair if it was true
[22:50:48] <zeeshan|2> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/08U42Li2XnSR18AdgwRWo7v6nekQTZKItvWRSPZPYW8=w278-h208-p-no
[22:50:49] <zeeshan|2> whats that
[22:50:53] <zeeshan|2> a bar of silver?
[22:51:08] <andypugh> humble_sea_bass: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17523513.000-sound-barrier.html
[22:51:22] <humble_sea_bass> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[22:51:31] <zeeshan|2> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5712438091100252050?pid=5712438091100252050&oid=108164504656404380542
[22:51:32] <zeeshan|2> dun dun dun
[22:51:36] <zeeshan|2> we see a selfie for andypugh
[22:51:39] <zeeshan|2> in the reflection
[22:51:49] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: A bar of white metal for re-surfacing engine bearings
[22:51:57] <zeeshan|2> ah
[22:51:58] <zeeshan|2> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5669043119058108082?pid=5669043119058108082&oid=108164504656404380542
[22:52:01] <zeeshan|2> i know what this is!
[22:52:14] <zeeshan|2> a planer
[22:52:33] <zeeshan|2> i really don't see what it's application are
[22:52:38] <andypugh> actually, a shaper.
[22:52:45] <XXCoder1> in least its not acciental nude selfie :P
[22:52:46] <zeeshan|2> i call it a planer! ;p
[22:53:00] <zeeshan|2> like its basically a lathe
[22:53:03] <zeeshan|2> but moving in a straight line
[22:53:38] <andypugh> Planers and shapers are similar, but in a shaper the tool moves, and in a planer the work moves
[22:53:48] <zeeshan|2> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eCz0K4OC3y4/T9j7uzFDhEI/AAAAAAAABUE/n2Zo1H-dFs4/w1195-h896-no/IMG_0384.jpg
[22:53:51] <zeeshan|2> !!!!!
[22:54:04] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: ah
[22:54:12] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of a shaper
[22:54:20] <zeeshan|2> cause i noticed the ways on the head
[22:54:38] <andypugh> And I am not a great welder. So what?
[22:54:45] <zeeshan|2> im a master aluminum welder
[22:54:46] <zeeshan|2> !
[22:55:01] <zeeshan|2> i know the problem right away
[22:55:13] <zeeshan|2> its not you
[22:55:16] <zeeshan|2> its the metal you're welding
[22:55:25] <andypugh> I am keen to learn
[22:55:33] <zeeshan|2> the bottom plate looks like shitty 1000 series anodized stuff
[22:55:36] <zeeshan|2> which doesn't weld well at all
[22:55:56] <XXCoder1> can anodize part be grinded off?
[22:56:03] <zeeshan|2> yea it can
[22:56:06] <zeeshan|2> but still doesnt change the fact its 1000 series
[22:56:11] <andypugh> It hasn’t broken yet
[22:56:15] <zeeshan|2> it won't break
[22:56:30] <zeeshan|2> it just looks bad and will be 30% of the strength of the base material
[22:56:39] <zeeshan|2> (the 30% is a number out of my butt, but im trying to make a point)
[22:57:11] <zeeshan|2> and if you pressurize the top tube, i guarantee you'll see little air bubbles in a water tank at the black spots
[22:57:11] <XXCoder1> tip for android device noobies - if it adverises wifi as best feature its shitty
[22:57:19] <andypugh> It is the joint between the tube and the console here: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5754374155813339394?pid=5754374155813339394&oid=108164504656404380542
[22:57:21] <XXCoder1> example http://tech.woot.com/?ref=gh_tc_2
[22:57:34] <zeeshan|2> not a big deal then
[22:57:38] <zeeshan|2> doesn't look like its taking much weight
[22:58:07] <zeeshan|2> what kind of welder?
[22:58:10] <zeeshan|2> transformer or inverter
[22:58:39] <andypugh> AC HF inverter, but a cheap one.
[22:58:55] <andypugh> Probably my 3rd alu weld ever.
[22:59:19] <XXCoder1> even though its pretty shitty tablet I'm slightly tempted, it has 1 gb ram and has microhdmi
[22:59:26] <XXCoder1> might be cheapass smart tv lol
[23:01:21] <zeeshan|2> lemme show you some
[23:01:30] <zeeshan|2> portfolio!
[23:01:36] <zeeshan|2> i'm not a pro
[23:01:48] <zeeshan|2> well i do it a lot, but not for a living
[23:01:54] <zeeshan|2> side work/$
[23:04:01] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/sYiDZ
[23:04:09] <zeeshan|2> 4th picture
[23:04:14] <zeeshan|2> to the right
[23:04:19] <zeeshan|2> i like that one
[23:04:43] <zeeshan|2> i like the intake manifold ones too
[23:04:53] <zeeshan|2> the tank ones with 3 fittings
[23:05:01] <zeeshan|2> i wanted to make them heavy welds cause that thing holds fuel in it
[23:05:08] <zeeshan|2> and it was going in a guys race car
[23:05:45] <zeeshan|2> theres 1 thing similar with all those pics
[23:06:26] <zeeshan|2> 6xxx or 5xxx series aluminum
[23:06:55] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I am actually not too sad about _my_ welds, considrering I am absolutel not a welder.
[23:07:07] <zeeshan|2> im not trying to make you sad!
[23:07:18] <zeeshan|2> but i've experimented a lot with it
[23:07:34] <zeeshan|2> so i pass tips when i can :P
[23:07:43] <andypugh> 3rd down looks hard
[23:08:15] <zeeshan|2> you know when people say
[23:08:23] <zeeshan|2> "sand down the area you're welding"
[23:08:35] <zeeshan|2> with aluminum, when you try to do that with a dirty brush or sand paper
[23:08:40] <zeeshan|2> you actually end up making the problem worse
[23:09:03] <zeeshan|2> and since your sand paper usually is made out of aluminum oxide, some of it embeds onto the aluminum
[23:09:07] <zeeshan|2> when you're sanding it
[23:09:17] <zeeshan|2> even after you clean it with acetone and you try to weld it
[23:09:22] <zeeshan|2> you'll see those little 'black' spots
[23:09:23] <zeeshan|2> rise up
[23:09:32] <zeeshan|2> its the silly pieces of aluminum oxide breaking off
[23:09:38] <zeeshan|2> (at least thats my theory on it)
[23:09:54] <zeeshan|2> i just crank up balance to 50/50 (self cleaning 50%, penetration 50%)
[23:10:11] <zeeshan|2> if its fresh metal, i just clean with acetone and weld away
[23:10:42] <zeeshan|2> if its old metal, i heat it up with propane to burn off the oil and impurities on the surface and below the surface (aluminum is pretty porous so it absorbs oil/grease/dirt)
[23:10:51] <zeeshan|2> then acetone and weld
[23:11:11] <zeeshan|2> i've never been able to weld any aluminum that has been anodized
[23:11:17] <zeeshan|2> even after removing the layer of anodizing
[23:11:19] <XXCoder1> cant you use some non-alum stuff like steel mesh
[23:11:24] <zeeshan|2> it just doesnt look pretty
[23:11:32] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder1: again the same problem
[23:11:41] <zeeshan|2> if its steel wool, some of it likes to embedd
[23:11:53] <XXCoder1> HMM use cnc to mill surface? :D
[23:11:54] <andypugh> I tried to make an underfloor heating manifold for my parents. 12” x 1” tube, 12 x 1/4” nipples for the pipes. Stainless Steel. I tried to TIG it, but the nipples were so much littler than the tube that I couldn’t make it work. I ended up using silver solder.
[23:12:03] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder1: that would be the best
[23:12:27] <zeeshan|2> your text came up as a bunch of symbols
[23:12:27] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:12:41] <zeeshan|2> 12x1 mm tube?
[23:12:42] <XXCoder1> me or andy?
[23:12:45] <zeeshan|2> andypugh:
[23:13:01] <XXCoder1> he used quotes imperial system inches
[23:13:02] <toastyde1th> Single point dimond surface planer! the only way to surface aluminum.
[23:13:50] <andypugh> Yeah, imperial. I am bi-unitular.
[23:14:03] <zeeshan|2> what do i set my language option to
[23:14:09] <andypugh> I measure in metric and guess in Imperial.
[23:14:14] <zeeshan|2> 'default text encoding: use langauge encoding'
[23:14:51] <zeeshan|2> you said
[23:14:57] <zeeshan|2> 12inch by 1" thick tubing right?
[23:15:09] <zeeshan|2> and 12 inch by 1/4 inch thick nipples
[23:15:22] <zeeshan|2> those are some huge pipes
[23:17:04] <zeeshan|2> tell meee
[23:18:49] <andypugh> 12” long. 1” diameter, 1/4” wall. then 1 nipple every .92037” which was 1/4” bore and 9mm OD, and machined down from that.
[23:18:58] <zeeshan|2> i cant seer the symbols
[23:19:11] <zeeshan|2> all i see is 12 weird symbol, another weird symbol then long
[23:19:29] <jdh> 12� long
[23:19:32] <zeeshan|2> jdh
[23:19:34] <zeeshan|2> damhn you
[23:19:55] <XXCoder1> ' " ~!@#$%^&*()_+
[23:20:09] <XXCoder1> whats it look like? all just weird symbols?
[23:20:18] <zeeshan|2> i just need to know the thickneess of the nipples
[23:20:21] <XXCoder1> you might just need better font. I use inconsula
[23:20:22] <zeeshan|2> 0.25 wall main pipe
[23:20:35] <andypugh> That’s very strange, all I am using are inch/quote symbos.
[23:20:42] <zeeshan|2> its my kvirc
[23:20:56] <XXCoder1> just assume double quote each time yous ee symbol
[23:21:27] <zeeshan|2> andypugh is killing me with inch dimensions and then a metric dimension
[23:21:27] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[23:21:54] <zeeshan|2> so nipples are .25 bore, .354 od
[23:22:04] <zeeshan|2> 0.052 wall thickness
[23:22:15] <zeeshan|2> do you remember what amps you were welding that at?
[23:22:20] <andypugh> In metric: 32mm OD pipe 6mm wall. 12 x 9mm OD 6mm ID nipples
[23:23:10] <zeeshan|2> you'd want to weld that at 40 amps to 45 amps
[23:23:24] <zeeshan|2> to get a max penetration of 40 to 45 thou
[23:23:28] <zeeshan|2> (inches)
[23:23:51] <zeeshan|2> if you set it to more than 52 amps, you'll blow right through
[23:23:55] <andypugh> I tried 20 / 30 / 40 amps, I couldn’t melt both at the same time.
[23:24:12] <zeeshan|2> and if its exactly at 52 amps, you'll still blow through unless you're superman and can move fast
[23:24:34] <zeeshan|2> you gotta start the puddle first at the thicker material
[23:24:41] <zeeshan|2> as soon as you see the puddle at the thicker material
[23:25:17] <zeeshan|2> at that point you wanna dump in some filler
[23:25:46] <zeeshan|2> and you'll see itll somewhat make a weak joint with the nipple
[23:26:07] <zeeshan|2> once that tack is there, you can go back to your normal 45 degree optimal angle between the two pieces
[23:26:20] <zeeshan|2> and keep filling in
[23:26:23] <andypugh> I kind-of know this stuff. But the puddle wouldn’t bridge and my filler rods have more area then the machined-down nipples
[23:26:24] <zeeshan|2> i dunno if that makes sense
[23:27:12] <zeeshan|2> its hard to explain
[23:27:17] <zeeshan|2> but that first tack is the hardest one
[23:28:04] <zeeshan|2> the scenario you're describing i deal with when im welding 0.0625 inch wall tubing
[23:28:23] <zeeshan|2> and trying to weld a npt fitting to it (which has roughly a wall of 0.25")
[23:28:57] <andypugh> I just decided that 1mm wall thickness small parts to 6mm wall thickness big parts was too hard.
[23:28:57] <XXCoder1> if nothing else, use bondo. ;)
[23:29:05] <XXCoder1> lay em on thick. :P
[23:29:16] <zeeshan|2> its not if you keep the heat at the big part first
[23:29:37] <andypugh> Too hard for _me_
[23:29:43] <zeeshan|2> PRACTICE!
[23:29:45] <zeeshan|2> or i will beat you
[23:29:54] <andypugh> I only had two parts.
[23:30:05] <andypugh> And both needed to work
[23:30:09] <XXCoder1> beating will go on as long as morale is down
[23:31:00] <andypugh> Silver solder was easy, net, and unlikely to leak.
[23:31:48] <zeeshan|2> i need to learn to silver solder
[23:31:50] <zeeshan|2> never done it in my life
[23:33:48] <zeeshan|2> make a video of you welding stainless steel
[23:34:12] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/cWXx2JQ.jpg
[23:34:24] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/oTbQ8Bu.jpg
[23:34:25] <zeeshan|2> moar
[23:34:37] <zeeshan|2> second pic
[23:34:45] <zeeshan|2> see the bunch of couplers?
[23:34:50] <zeeshan|2> (orange black)
[23:35:05] <zeeshan|2> right below it is .25 wall fitting welded to 0.0625 wall tubing
[23:36:42] <zeeshan|2> what you should try to do is take a piece of 1/16 inch stainless sheet metal piece
[23:37:03] <zeeshan|2> and weld it to a thick piece of stainless pipe
[23:37:19] <zeeshan|2> straight fillet weld and see what happens
[23:37:47] <zeeshan|2> once you're done with it, you will have yourself a stainless steel axe
[23:59:42] <andypugh> Part of the problem is that I have to accept that I cant see well enough to weld little stuff any more.