#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-27

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[00:29:22] <Connor> I'm getting a Pin 'motion.digital-out-04' does not exist
[00:29:37] <Connor> how do add more pins to motion ?
[03:17:59] <Deejay> moin
[07:06:48] <Bushman> http://roflcopter.pl/5606
[09:49:15] <zoni1983> hi any one there
[09:49:31] <zoni1983> i need a bit of info
[09:50:08] <cradek> hi, in irc, always just ask your real question; you don't have to ask to ask first
[09:50:14] <zoni1983> is it nessasery to select axis for hand wheel via io
[09:50:32] <zoni1983> or can they be selected from keyboard
[09:50:48] <cradek> if you're using the AXIS gui, it has outputs you can use to select the wheel axis
[09:51:00] <cradek> also Touchy does a similar thing
[10:04:19] <JT-Shop> you can also use a selector switch for the axis to jog
[10:04:44] <cradek> yes true, but I think his question was asking how to not do that
[10:05:27] <JT-Shop> ah yes, too quick of a glance
[10:30:56] <Tom_itx> another windy day
[10:32:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: go fly a kite
[10:33:06] <Tom_itx> it would tear apart
[10:33:15] <Tom_itx> 30mph gusts or more
[10:33:17] <Jymmm> build it better
[10:39:05] <R2E4> IS it a problem to connect a spindle servo with no encoder?
[10:58:06] <cradek> R2E4: what do you mean problem?
[11:00:50] <R2E4> MAybe I should have said issue. I want to be able to send the coltage speed command to the spindle servo driver and not have linuxcnc worry about what speed it is at.
[11:01:12] <R2E4> Is that just remove the encoder pins for that drive?
[11:01:37] <R2E4> I have a fanuc spindle with no encoder but a magnetic sensor.
[11:06:09] <pcw_home> does the sensor go back to the spindle drive?
[11:07:01] <R2E4> yes
[11:07:14] <R2E4> I am reading. Just got the maintenance manual today.
[11:08:06] <pcw_home> you don't need a spindle encoder unless you want to do spindle synchronized motion (like rigid tapping)
[11:08:41] <R2E4> ok, thats later I think I will install an encoder, but for now, i just want to get this spindle working.
[11:35:30] <lv-esad> hi there
[11:44:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Webcam-Widescreen-Calling-Recording/dp/B004FHO5Y6 ok, these have an adjustable focus lens and can focus closer than 1"
[11:45:17] <CaptHindsight> the lens has a threaded barrel for focus adjustment, you just need to remove the cover and twist the lens to break the small dab of glue that holds the factory focus
[11:47:11] <archivist> is that a real 720?
[11:47:29] <Connor> Okay, so, I'm back to using o-word for tool changer stuff.. the Python just wasn't playing nice.. too complicated to get started with..
[11:49:10] <Connor> So, I have the Carousel going cw/ccw to get to the correct pocket #
[11:49:30] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302131 c270at1inch
[11:49:39] <Connor> Ram In and Ram Out functions -- checks the RamIn/RamOut sensors..
[11:49:45] <Connor> and a Air Present sensor check..
[11:49:47] <Connor> so far so good.
[11:50:10] <Connor> What's the green? Laser ?
[11:50:49] <Connor> Cheap Aluminum Spiral coupler with clamp style vs set screws.
[11:50:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/hd-webcam-c270#section=specs true 1280 x 720 no interpolation
[11:54:16] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302132
[11:55:37] <archivist> you got funny lighting or is the green a "feature"
[11:57:10] <CaptHindsight> the front cover of the cam is off, that's the green led that you see
[11:58:58] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302133
[11:59:20] <archivist> oops one of the reviews, dead after a while
[11:59:43] <CaptHindsight> $40 usb microscope shows up later today
[12:01:07] <archivist> I was playing with one of my microscopes and a web cam today, I think I need to make a lens as it needs to focus on the hairs too
[12:02:34] <archivist> to replace this eyepiece http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=9275&subject=26609
[12:02:57] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=03%2F09%2F2013
[12:05:39] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302136 you can clearly see the groves from the lathe
[12:07:19] <archivist> looks good for the price
[12:07:34] <R2E4> Is there usaually an external brake for AC spindles?
[12:07:53] <CaptHindsight> I didn't look at these couplings up close until now, I had thought that they were cut by EDM until now
[12:09:01] <Connor> Who wrote the remap stuff ?
[12:09:46] <CaptHindsight> archivist: what was the distance from the lens to parts in those pics?
[12:11:23] <archivist> about 25mm +- a mile didnt measure
[12:12:31] <archivist> that is slr looking into the scope
[12:20:01] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302139 this is from just under 1"
[12:21:06] <zoni1983> i need help
[12:21:17] <zoni1983> my hand wheel is not working
[12:22:36] <zoni1983> i have installed a new hand wheel on my machine but it is not working
[12:23:22] <zoni1983> do i need i/o to select axis or can be selected from keyboard
[12:25:41] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302142 0.4mm pitch QFP
[12:25:48] <archivist> CaptHindsight, 1.5" lens to object
[12:26:51] <archivist> I just happened to have the thing on the desk down stairs at the moment
[12:30:14] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302143 wire size - plated holes
[12:34:06] <pcw_home> zoni1983: how is the hand wheel connected to the machine?
[12:34:07] <pcw_home> the hal file must be set up properly for the jog input source
[12:36:58] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302145
[12:37:45] <CaptHindsight> ^^ 1280 res with just over 1" field of view
[12:40:02] <CaptHindsight> with the proper lighting and some frame averaging to lower the noise this could be a winner
[12:40:30] <archivist> filthy cutter and crap webcam http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/microscope/28modcutter.jpg
[12:41:42] <CaptHindsight> it works in Cheese so Ubuntu won't be much of an issue
[12:41:53] <archivist> your camera is a lot better than mine
[12:42:09] <archivist> I am using cheese too
[12:42:23] <Connor> cheese ?
[12:42:42] <archivist> say cheese
[12:42:48] <CaptHindsight> https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Cheese
[12:43:06] <Connor> umm.. okay.
[12:43:10] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28software%29
[12:43:57] <Connor> I need to make a spindle mount for mine.
[12:44:16] <Connor> Just not sure how useful a camera is vs a touch probe...
[12:45:37] <CaptHindsight> a camera is better for zeroing on butter, touch probes tend to deform the butters surface
[12:46:54] <Connor> Huh ?
[12:46:59] <Connor> butter ?
[12:47:17] <archivist> he means, use the right tool for the job
[12:47:45] <CaptHindsight> has anyone come across an inexpensive laser scanner (<$1K) with 0.001" res?
[13:00:00] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I asked a sales droid on the mitutoyo stand about measuring a cutter like in my image but the spot dia gets in the way
[13:14:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140327-researchers-invent-multi-material-3d-bioprinter-to-print-live-cells.html "this 3D bio-printer is able to print 70 micron diameter cells. Their next goal is to increase its printing accuracy so it is capable of printing 20 micron diameter cells" time to get rid of the screws and use linear servos
[13:14:27] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[14:25:46] <IchGuckLive> not many posts today
[14:25:55] <IchGuckLive> so all mills and diy are running well
[14:29:48] <Connor> Question, how do I link a gladevcp button to a G-code file to run ?
[14:33:20] <IchGuckLive> Connor: to load up the file and run imediatly
[15:19:11] <Connor> No, just a gladevcp button to run a canned o-word script.. in this case, to home the carousel..
[15:34:26] <cpresser> Connor: use halui. then add 'MDI_COMMAND' to your ini-file
[15:35:04] <cradek> I suggest having the carousel home itself when you first ask for a tool prep
[15:35:06] <cpresser> Connor: last step: wire the pin "halui.mdi-command-0?" to your button
[15:57:02] <humble_sea_bass> CaptHindsight: any hits on laser scanners for cheap?
[16:00:11] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: there are a few maker type projects http://makezine.com/2013/05/24/new-project-diy-3d-laser-scanner-using-arduino/ http://www.instructables.com/id/3-D-Laser-Scanner/ http://revision3.com/systm/laserscan http://hackaday.com/2011/12/01/cheap-diy-laser-scanner-is-quite-impressive/ http://www.makerscanner.com/
[16:01:36] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: and there are some cheap units without turntables like this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1024877&gclid=COm47p3Ks70CFSISMwodjFsAsw&is=REG&Q=&A=details#Specification
[16:04:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aniwaa.com/3d-scanners/compare-3d-scanners/
[16:04:59] <XXCoder> I do want to have laser scanner. why not?
[16:07:30] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprinterplans.info/rubicon-3d-scanner-launches-on-indiegogo/
[16:12:51] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: it looks like if I want Ferro quality or better I have to DIY
[16:13:16] <CaptHindsight> Ferro/Faro
[16:15:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.faro.com/products/metrology/faro-scanarm/features#main Accuracy ±35µ (±.0014 in.) Scan Rate up to 45,120 points/sec
[16:19:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.dirdim.com/prod_laserscanners.htm check out the prices for others in this range
[16:19:34] <XXCoder> pricing is painful, that klink lol
[16:23:55] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, you know about the Faro - kinect project? http://www.faro.com/scenect/scenect
[16:24:14] <humble_sea_bass> Price Range: $90,000 to $150,000
[16:24:37] <CaptHindsight> there are few Kinect scanner projects
[16:24:44] <humble_sea_bass> I thought the kinect had terrible resolution
[16:25:27] <CaptHindsight> what I'd like is a tabletop unit to scan parts that fit into most cnc machine beds
[16:26:10] <CaptHindsight> yeah, the kinect is for scanning larger areas, but one group was using them them to scan body parts for prosthetics
[16:26:56] <CaptHindsight> at least 300 x 300 x 300mm (12^3 inch)
[16:28:22] <XXCoder> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/5232 lol
[16:28:27] <tjtr33> :) scan a 100x model of what you want then scale it down
[16:28:40] <tjtr33> then kinect rex is no prob
[16:28:43] <tjtr33> rez
[16:29:10] <XXCoder> this just needs laser and webcam http://lifehacker.com/5822730/make-a-3d-scanner-out-of-a-webcam-laser-pointer-and-some-software/all
[16:30:00] <zoni1983> can u tell me for hand wheel to work on milling do i need to select axis
[16:30:06] <zoni1983> with io
[16:30:23] <zoni1983> can key board work
[16:30:34] <humble_sea_bass> the david laser scanner is just clever math XXCoder , it is garbage for real world applications
[16:30:50] <zoni1983> for axis select
[16:31:04] <XXCoder> cant 3d print or cnc stuff with result?
[16:31:04] <humble_sea_bass> zoni. page up/down move the z axis
[16:31:32] <zoni1983> yes but i want to move axis via hand wheel
[16:31:35] <humble_sea_bass> arrows move the x/y and you change the feed rate with ><
[16:32:16] <humble_sea_bass> you can do it, but you'll have to home tthe axis later if you don't have encoders
[16:32:36] <zoni1983> in pncconf i have selected hand wheel mpg
[16:33:14] <humble_sea_bass> uuh, are we talking about a manual pulse generator
[16:33:24] <humble_sea_bass> or handcranks on your motors
[16:33:26] <Connor> cradek: I can do that, but still want a home button.
[16:33:39] <Connor> Will have to add another flag to say that it's been homed.
[16:33:43] <zoni1983> manual pulse generator
[16:36:33] <zoni1983> in manual mode i am rotating mpg and it is not working
[16:39:09] <zoni1983> any body please
[16:46:27] <JT-Shop> how did you hook it up?
[16:47:28] <Tom_itx> he left
[16:48:52] <humble_sea_bass> any body please
[16:50:55] <kengu> any what?
[16:51:37] <zoni1983> was disconnected any body please answer
[16:53:45] <zoni1983> my mpg is not woking
[16:53:56] <JT-Shop> zoni1983, what have you done to test the installation?
[16:54:58] <zoni1983> in hal meter it shows up an down counting
[16:55:11] <JT-Shop> that's a good start
[16:55:22] <JT-Shop> how did you make your configuration?
[16:55:32] <zoni1983> via pnnconf
[16:55:50] <zoni1983> v2.5.3
[16:56:12] <JT-Shop> can you pastebin your hal file?
[16:56:51] <zoni1983> i am on mobile so not possible
[16:57:31] <zoni1983> but can you tell me that is it nessary to select acis for mpg via io pin
[16:57:46] <zoni1983> or can key board selection work
[16:57:48] <JT-Shop> I would think so
[16:58:03] <JT-Shop> I don't know how pncconf makes the connections
[16:58:25] <JT-Shop> you can ask on the forum there is a dedicated section for pncconf
[16:58:52] <zoni1983> JT-Shop, can i email u hal file later
[16:59:17] <JT-Shop> best to post it to pastebin or upload it to the forum
[16:59:36] <JT-Shop> the author of pncconf is on the forum
[16:59:57] <Deejay> gn8
[17:00:06] <zoni1983> in pncconf i have not given any gpio for axis selection
[17:00:36] <zoni1983> i use mouse to select axis or xyz key in manual mode
[17:01:06] <JT-Shop> here is how I connect a MPG http://pastebin.com/wvtqPjGY
[17:01:18] <JT-Shop> I don't know anything about pncconf
[17:02:27] <zoni1983> help me one more thing it is about axis homing
[17:02:56] <zoni1983> i want to home using index
[17:03:53] <zoni1983> my motor rotates in reverse so i have to give scale in negitive
[17:04:47] <zoni1983> i have set use index to yes but the macjine touches tj home limit twise
[17:05:42] <zoni1983> anf in hal meter it does not show it touches index
[17:08:59] <tjtr33> zoni1983, this may help http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/11/jogging-emc2/ anders has mesa io pcb, and uses switch to select x y or z, also mpg
[17:12:08] <tjtr33> for homing, look at integrators manual, section 4.3. which of the 4 configurations are you using?
[17:15:12] <zoni1983> i am using limit and index
[17:16:12] <tjtr33> then it is correct to hit the switch twice, BUT it should move further to find the index ( see diagram )
[17:17:07] <tjtr33> what do you see happen when it hits the switch 2nd time?
[17:17:37] <zoni1983> in diagram it says i need to give search velosity positive
[17:18:33] <zoni1983> but i cant because my motors are rotating in oppostie direction
[17:19:09] <tjtr33> true, but the text grid says 'nonzero' ( i agree its confusing )
[17:20:00] <zoni1983> so negitive search velocity does not matter
[17:20:27] <zoni1983> or does it effect
[17:20:54] <tjtr33> i cannot confirm it without trying it, can you safely try it? ( maybe move to center of travel and trip the switch by hand ? )
[17:21:33] <zoni1983> i tried tobtrip switch by hand
[17:21:51] <zoni1983> i have to trip switch twise
[17:21:59] <zoni1983> for it to home
[17:22:35] <tjtr33> yes, what do you see happen after 2nd time?
[17:22:43] <JT-Shop> tjtr33, which text is confusing?
[17:23:05] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, the diagram say positivem the text grid says nonzero section 4.3
[17:23:12] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html#_homing_sequence
[17:23:50] <zoni1983> it slows down but on hal meter the index does not show
[17:24:15] <tjtr33> zoni1983, try to confirn that the index appears
[17:24:32] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, see what i mean?
[17:24:53] <tjtr33> zoni1983, try to confirn that the index appears _eventually__
[17:24:53] <zoni1983> how do i do that
[17:25:01] <JT-Shop> tjtr33, not really the charts are an example of search and latch in different directions and the same direction
[17:25:05] <tjtr33> move to middle of stroke and jog a looooong way
[17:25:55] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, ok the text grid is generic and the diagram is specific, ok sorry & thanks
[17:26:27] <JT-Shop> zoni1983, check that your index is working http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/encoder.html
[17:26:53] <zoni1983> but the diagram says that the serchvelity should be positive
[17:27:01] <zoni1983> is it nessary
[17:27:04] <JT-Shop> the text above the diagrams need to be expanded
[17:27:30] <tjtr33> (JT thats the confusion, i can see his point, but then, i'm easily confused :)
[17:27:36] <JT-Shop> zoni1983, only look at if the diagram shows both in the same direction or in different directions
[17:28:32] <JT-Shop> it would be clearer if latchvel said same or opposite perhaps
[17:29:18] <JT-Shop> dunno if I can edit the diagram or not... but I'll look
[17:30:02] * JT-Shop says it is officially time to stop work work and start play work
[17:30:21] <zoni1983> in third the serchvel is pos and latch vel is neg
[17:30:35] <JT-Shop> so opposite
[17:30:42] <zoni1983> yes
[17:31:50] * JT-Shop goes down to the beer cave to see if it is possible to clear up the diagram or not
[17:32:14] <zoni1983> so if my motors home swich is in opposite dir and i give serchvel neg and latch vel positive it should work
[17:33:57] <jthornton> yes
[17:34:51] <zoni1983> but it does not it touches the switch twise
[17:36:23] <zoni1983> JT-Shop: i will upload my hal and ini to pastebin will u please check it
[17:36:27] <tjtr33> 3rd diagram does not touch twice (2nd & 4th diagram do touch twice )
[17:37:33] <zoni1983> tjtr33: yes but i have given servel and latchvel opposite
[17:47:06] <tjtr33> zonii have to go back to work, please check that your index pulse does occur
[17:47:11] <tjtr33> bbl
[17:55:23] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302200 the router cleaned up well after some sanding, polishing and anodize
[17:55:44] <XXCoder> nice!
[17:55:52] <XXCoder> it looked pretty bad before.
[17:58:32] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302203
[17:59:22] <XXCoder> nice indeed
[18:00:45] <CaptHindsight> they just need a little TLC out of the box
[18:00:54] <XXCoder> I bet. :)
[18:01:18] <XXCoder> I'm starting to wonder if I could grab lot of alum scrap and melt em into slabs so I can mill em into cnc parts
[18:02:00] <XXCoder> I doubt it, bit lot work even if it probably would be pretty cheap
[18:03:35] <CaptHindsight> the router next to has >1/8" of play in the X, there is no preload on the ballscrew, and the holder for the bearing is 1mm oversized
[18:03:54] <XXCoder> still fixing it I see
[18:04:41] <CaptHindsight> they do a good job of machining them, they just don't put them together right
[18:06:45] <CaptHindsight> the factory must be knee deep in filth
[18:08:23] <XXCoder> probably
[18:08:32] <XXCoder> or clean but dirty materials
[18:15:25] <XXCoder> anyway glad see youre making nice progress.
[18:46:30] <R2E4_> Does Linuxcnc wait for spindle to get up to speed before it starts feeding?
[18:48:18] <JT-Shop> only with css
[18:48:35] <JT-Shop> you can do feed moves with the spindle off if you like
[18:49:22] <JT-Shop> R2E4, did you get your spindle running?
[18:49:46] <Tom_itx> css?
[18:50:03] <JT-Shop> constant surface speed
[18:50:19] <XXCoder> lol was thinking in website design terms
[18:50:26] <XXCoder> too much CS :P
[18:50:50] <JT-Shop> heh
[18:52:04] <R2E4_> Thats what I am working on now.
[18:52:30] <R2E4_> DUH, I'm doing feed moves with the spindle not connected....lol
[18:52:34] * JT-Shop goes to work on dinner
[18:52:54] <JT-Shop> my DX-32 won't allow feed moves with the spindle off
[18:52:58] <R2E4_> Its weird though. No encoder but a magnetic sensor. Fanux....jeez!
[18:55:04] <R2E4_> I have vcmd in +10, sp forward, sp reverse, tool unclamp, low gear and orientation all inputs gnd in except +10
[18:56:29] <R2E4_> outputs I have SP speed check signal, SP certain speed signal, SP zero speed signal, sp alarm and Orientation all outputs gnd
[19:20:37] <R2E4_> The spindle drive looks like I hae to tell it which direction and the analog input. I get back from the drive when it is at zero and when it is at speed, not sure what the "spindle certain speed signal" output is.
[19:40:57] <R2E4_> With a spindle forward and spindle revverse input along with analog vcmd, Would think that with both spindle forward and reverse input is false, the brake would be on on the spindle.
[19:44:03] <R2E4_> I could use the hal pin Spindle forward for input to spindle drive SP forware input. thoughts?
[19:57:24] <Connor> Is there a way to run a .ngc file via gladevcp ?
[19:57:35] <Connor> Thinking I'll have to use remap to do it...
[20:09:14] <XXCoder> mn 3d printing is everywhere.
[20:09:29] <XXCoder> docyor printed up a skull top and replaced lady orginial with it
[20:09:43] <XXCoder> she has this rare skull growing condition
[20:10:20] <XXCoder> hey
[20:12:19] <R2E4_> What gcode file is loading when Lcnc isstarted and where is it configged at?
[20:13:08] <PetefromTn_> you mean the lcnc logo code?
[20:13:49] <R2E4_> yeah, I read it but cant remember which manual
[20:14:04] <R2E4_> I want to change it.
[20:19:53] <R2E4_> Pete, did you finish the rifle guide?
[20:20:31] <Connor> OPEN_FILE=
[20:20:48] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Getting close on the toolchanger code...
[20:21:14] <R2E4_> In the ini?
[20:21:30] <Connor> I have Ram In, Ram Out, and have it seeking the pockets correctly.. just finished up the get_tool
[20:21:36] <Connor> grep for it.. but.. Yea..
[20:22:00] <Connor> now need to do put_tool.. and the string it all together correctly.
[20:22:01] <PetefromTn_> R2E4 No not yet ben working for the other shop more lately...
[20:22:40] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Having to simulate all these sensors via gladevcp is a task.. Forget one little sensor in the proper sequence and it aborts out...
[20:23:15] <PetefromTn_> Connor No shit man you are awesome dude.. I cannot wait to see this monster change tools. Running those Haas machines all day and watching the toolchanger work is like being in a Candy store and not being able to eat any Chocolate ;)
[20:23:27] <Connor> I bet.
[20:23:35] <XXCoder> did I miss link by connor?
[20:23:47] <Connor> Link for what ?
[20:23:54] <PetefromTn_> I actually ran that VF8 today... Damn that thing is hube.
[20:24:01] <PetefromTn_> huge.
[20:24:03] <XXCoder> your tool changer on progress? guess havent linked? heh
[20:24:07] <R2E4_> Thanks, got it.
[20:24:19] <PetefromTn_> The travels are like 64x40 or so...
[20:24:24] <Connor> linked? Still working on it in simulator
[20:24:50] <XXCoder> to video or something. lol ok. cant wait to see it too. :)
[20:25:08] <Connor> That'll be PetefromTn_'s thing to do after I get it finished.
[20:25:18] <PetefromTn_> I machined a piece of 2" thick UHMW plastic plate into 48 inch disks with holes and pockets and counterbores on them. weigh a bunch..
[20:25:26] <Connor> PetefromTn_: A few things about the tool table and editor.
[20:26:03] <Connor> 1) The pocket field, is only useful for Random Tool changers..
[20:26:21] <Connor> 2) the Pocket is actually the ROW that the tool is in the tool changer when not in random mode.
[20:26:46] <PetefromTn_> huh what do you mean row?
[20:27:01] <Connor> Just that.. it's a grid layout.. right ?
[20:27:17] <Connor> first row may have tool # 4, but, since it's in the first row, that's pocket 1
[20:27:28] <PetefromTn_> you talking about the tool editor from File etc.
[20:27:33] <Connor> next row, would be the 2nd pocket..
[20:27:53] <Connor> editor OR file.. the pocket is the row # of the tool
[20:28:10] <Connor> the POC field isn't used in non random tool changers.
[20:28:22] <PetefromTn_> it has tool number then next column is pocket numbr..
[20:28:42] <Connor> right, that pocket number isn't used in non-random tool changers..
[20:28:48] <Connor> the row # is.
[20:28:49] <PetefromTn_> whaddya mean non random, my toolchanger goes both directions.
[20:29:10] <Connor> apparently some tool changers can place a tool in a random pocket...
[20:29:23] <Connor> and it keeps track of which pocket it put the tool in via that field.
[20:29:37] <Connor> your tools will always go into the same pocket.
[20:29:46] <PetefromTn_> actually yeah the Haas VF8 with side mount changer does that...
[20:30:02] <PetefromTn_> that is interesting because.
[20:30:48] <PetefromTn_> I was running the VF3 today and thinking about the differences between the VF3, the VF8, and how my machine will run.
[20:31:08] <PetefromTn_> In this shop when they setup a job ( and they setup a LOT of jobs)
[20:31:41] <PetefromTn_> They actually just make a small list of the tools necessary with the type of cutter, the diameter, and tool material type.
[20:31:57] <PetefromTn_> Then they setup the order in the list from first to next to last tools.
[20:32:11] <Connor> That makes sense...
[20:32:12] <PetefromTn_> Then they go to the machine and load the tools into the pockets in that order.
[20:32:23] <PetefromTn_> So tool one is first tool in pocket 1.
[20:32:28] <PetefromTn_> and so forth and so on.
[20:33:15] <Connor> right.. Well.. that's all incidental to this.. I was just wanting to make sure you knew that the POC field had nothing to do with the actual pocket your tool will be in in your configuration.
[20:33:16] <PetefromTn_> Which is actually quite nice because it is easier to keep track of things when you are running the code especially when you have to rerun part of the code which happens quite often.
[20:33:51] <PetefromTn_> however I will have to change my current tool thinking somewhat.
[20:34:09] <PetefromTn_> I have TRIED to always keep certain tools loaded in their holders whenever possible.
[20:34:31] <PetefromTn_> I have setup my Cam to use those tools and whatever numbers assigned to them.
[20:34:44] <Connor> You can't have it ask for a tool that's not in the tool table.. and if it's in the tool table, it'll have a pocket...
[20:35:46] <PetefromTn_> So when I do a cam program a part and the tools are already assigned numbers I will need to somehow assign the order of the tool instead of just selecting the tool
[20:35:57] <Connor> right
[20:36:20] <PetefromTn_> if I ask for a tool that is not in the table it puts up a dialog saying there is no such tool or something currently.
[20:36:31] <PetefromTn_> on my machine.
[20:36:46] <Connor> Now, You could have tools in pockets above 20, which *I* might be able to program it to ask for the tool manually.. but.. we'll see..
[20:37:27] <PetefromTn_> I am very curious as to how this is going to work on the toolchanger compared to how the haas works.
[20:37:32] <PetefromTn_> For instance.
[20:37:35] <Connor> I might look at the random-toolpocket stuff.
[20:37:45] <PetefromTn_> When you load a new tool on the haas.
[20:38:31] <PetefromTn_> you basically hit a button that says tool fwd or tool rev which basically rotates the carousel to that pocket.
[20:38:43] <PetefromTn_> If there is a tool in it say tool one which is also pocket one.
[20:39:15] <PetefromTn_> Then you press the PDB button and release the tool manually
[20:39:23] <PetefromTn_> and load your new tool.
[20:39:36] <PetefromTn_> You can then touch off the tool with the handwheel.
[20:39:51] <PetefromTn_> They happen to touch off all tools to the workpiece in this shop.
[20:40:13] <PetefromTn_> I would use the G59.3 setup I currently use and once our tool probe is finished I will use that.
[20:40:46] <Connor> Well.. right now, just trying to get the "basic" tool change part done..
[20:40:52] <PetefromTn_> Once the tool is touched off you just press tool fwd button and the machine automatically raises the head up to toolchange height and changes that tool to the next pocket.
[20:40:56] <Connor> the loading of tools and touching off will be next..
[20:41:19] <PetefromTn_> Oh I know man I was just wanting to tell you what these machines do.
[20:41:50] <Connor> yea. Might have to stop by one day and take a look at one being loaded.. not saying we'll be able to match it..
[20:41:50] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp0ZpxsgxVs&feature=youtu.be
[20:42:01] <PetefromTn_> so then it loads the tool in the next pocket
[20:42:08] <PetefromTn_> into the spindle.
[20:42:25] <PetefromTn_> You can then manually load another tool or touch off that tool if it is the one you want.
[20:42:36] <Connor> What is that skunkworks? Looks like a tiny knee mill
[20:42:50] <PetefromTn_> Then continue until all tools are loaded into the pockets for the program.
[20:44:44] <Connor> Okay.. going to go watch some TV for a bit.. been hard at this.. just have the put_tool command left.. and then some logic in the main core of the program..
[20:44:55] <Connor> simulating all the sensors is a b!tch
[20:45:02] <PetefromTn_> I am sure man...
[20:45:03] <XXCoder> skunk will bit be above? the platform movements would make it inverse height cut? or am I wrong
[20:45:16] <PetefromTn_> Skunkie man that little bitch hauls ass huh..
[20:45:17] <Connor> if I forget one or get them out of order.. it aborts out.. which is good.. but still..
[20:45:47] <PetefromTn_> I would like to see the simulations run so I can understand what is SUPPOSED to happen here...
[20:48:55] <PetefromTn_> I would love to see a video of a linuxCNC machining center with toolchanger loading tools and changing tools etc...
[20:49:10] <PetefromTn_> To be able to see how others machines are setup.
[20:49:51] <Connor_iPad> Ok. On ipad on couch.
[20:50:05] <PetefromTn_> The shop I work in they all use Mastercam.
[20:50:18] <PetefromTn_> They are encouraging me to learn to use it.
[20:50:29] <Tom_itx> do it
[20:50:50] <PetefromTn_> I am apparently able to take a copy home to play with but they gotta talk to them about it first or something.
[20:51:17] <Tom_itx> no hardware dongles on it?
[20:51:25] <PetefromTn_> Some of the guys apparently have thier own copies ..
[20:51:33] <PetefromTn_> I did not ask how LOL.
[20:51:42] <PetefromTn_> No apparenlty there is no dongle.
[20:51:52] <Tom_itx> there used to be on mine
[20:52:15] <skunkworks> it is a little trainer we got from a local high school
[20:52:23] <PetefromTn_> They have it on three machines in the building and I never saw a dongle in there.
[20:52:27] <skunkworks> it kinda looks like a small knee mill
[20:52:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is cool man..
[20:52:55] <Connor_iPad> skunkworks: That's what I said.
[20:53:08] <PetefromTn_> what does the millhead look like.
[20:53:14] <Connor_iPad> Where do you find all these machines at in schools?
[20:54:12] <PetefromTn_> They are using Mastercam X7 or X9 or something.
[20:54:29] <Tom_itx> i've seen it but never used it
[20:54:53] <PetefromTn_> They kinda overwhelmed me a bit today..LOL
[20:55:01] <Tom_itx> how so?
[20:55:11] <PetefromTn_> They had two parts that cost 2k each in the shop.
[20:55:24] <PetefromTn_> they had already put a bunch of hours of machine time into them.
[20:55:31] <PetefromTn_> Very tight tolerances..
[20:55:41] <Tom_itx> sounds like most of what we ran
[20:55:48] <PetefromTn_> a bunch of bored holes and pockets at wierd angles
[20:56:02] <Tom_itx> those Ti parts were probably 25k
[20:56:04] <PetefromTn_> They were then ground for a fine finish on all sides.
[20:56:29] <PetefromTn_> They wanted me to do the final operation drilling and rigid tapping several holes into the sides.
[20:56:54] <Connor_iPad> Man they're brave. :)
[20:57:00] <PetefromTn_> I was scared shitless of screwing it up and lunching several days worth of work,
[20:57:31] <PetefromTn_> I got it done tho but on the last one the damn tap broke off down in a hole...
[20:57:40] <PetefromTn_> I was crushed..
[20:57:49] <PetefromTn_> I almost walked out the door......
[20:57:59] <PetefromTn_> They were surprised me
[20:58:09] <PetefromTn_> They were like Oh man that's okay shit happens...
[20:58:25] <PetefromTn_> Then they used some space age drills and machined out the tap right before my eyes...
[20:58:55] <Connor_iPad> Nice.
[20:58:58] <PetefromTn_> We hand finished that hole and got the parts done just about a half hour before time to go home.
[20:59:00] <XXCoder> indeed
[20:59:04] <Valen> probably carbide
[20:59:37] <PetefromTn_> The main guy they have there has been a pro for over thirty years and KNOWS HIS SHIT...
[20:59:49] <PetefromTn_> I feel like a kindergartner...
[21:00:01] <XXCoder> some things cannot be taught in class
[21:00:27] <Tom_itx> most things worth remembering aren't
[21:00:31] <PetefromTn_> I honestly feel fortunate to be able to work alongside them and learn and get paid pretty well for it...
[21:00:55] <PetefromTn_> I cannot say it is not without stress tho LOL.
[21:00:59] <XXCoder> skunkworks: was I wrong? from what I see, if bit was at fixed Z, it would make pocket shaped like teddy bear?
[21:01:16] <XXCoder> I bet. :)
[21:01:21] <PetefromTn_> Its the linuxCNC penguin...
[21:01:26] <PetefromTn_> Lying on his back...
[21:01:43] <XXCoder> ahh yea didnt look closely to what object was, just looking at Z movements.
[21:02:08] <PetefromTn_> I was looking at some sweet motors and drivers setup LOL
[21:02:37] <PetefromTn_> I did screw up today at work tho about an hour after I got there LOL... I mean besides the broken tap.
[21:02:51] <PetefromTn_> When I was running that HUGE VF8 machine.
[21:03:02] <PetefromTn_> And cutting those 48" disks.
[21:03:25] <PetefromTn_> You basically have to get INSIDE the machine to load and unload parts and clamp stuff down.
[21:03:39] <PetefromTn_> Well like a meat head I crawl in there
[21:03:55] <XXCoder> m,achine not off?
[21:04:00] <PetefromTn_> and I am concentrating so much on where things need to line up and how they get clamped down.
[21:04:04] <Tom_itx> don't hit your head on the spindle
[21:04:18] <skunkworks> XXCoder: http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/terco.JPG
[21:04:19] <PetefromTn_> I basically bumped my head into the friggin
[21:04:29] <PetefromTn_> 1" cutter in the spindle..
[21:04:37] <XXCoder> ow
[21:04:41] <PetefromTn_> Cut my head and bled like a stuck pig...
[21:05:08] <PetefromTn_> I thought I was gonna need to go to the hospital and the chinese owner lady looked VERY worried LOL...
[21:05:20] <skunkworks> I split my head open once.. first time I found out blood had a smell...
[21:05:25] <PetefromTn_> Funny thing is it was just a nick and it bled like crazy,.
[21:05:36] <Tom_itx> depending on what it was, i'd sometimes manually pull the tool outta the spindle
[21:06:06] <PetefromTn_> I just got a damp rag and held it on there for like ten minutes and the bleeding stopped finally and I went to work.
[21:06:35] <PetefromTn_> The machine is so HUGE I guess I figured the cutter was much higher than it appeared.
[21:06:52] <PetefromTn_> but actually no we do not power down the machine.
[21:06:58] <Valen> head wounds bleed a whole bunch
[21:07:08] <PetefromTn_> You can lockout any movement tho before you get inside there.
[21:07:16] <Valen> mechanically?
[21:07:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah it bled like freakin' crazy..
[21:07:37] <PetefromTn_> No electronically in the control.
[21:07:47] <PetefromTn_> Plus there are places you can stand safely..
[21:08:03] <PetefromTn_> It actually has like foot treads inside there so you don't slip.
[21:08:04] <Valen> mmm, not too sure how i feel about that
[21:08:19] <Tom_itx> some are so big you can't avoid it
[21:08:25] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I know I was not either but they do it all the time...You pretty much have to..
[21:08:31] <Valen> oh going in sure thats fine
[21:08:49] <Valen> I'd just want some big switches to physically remove power from the motors
[21:08:58] <PetefromTn_> You have to touch off stuff tools, fixtures etc...
[21:09:22] <PetefromTn_> Usually you just grab the MPG and climb inside there...
[21:09:25] <Valen> i mean a comsic ray hitting a transistor and turning it on is not how you want to die yaknow
[21:10:41] <PetefromTn_> Like I said I agree it is probably not that great an idea but the machine IS designed to work that way...
[21:11:00] <Valen> if there are safe places to stand sure stand in em
[21:11:13] <PetefromTn_> Oh believe me I do..
[21:11:14] <Valen> its just transiting there is something that would concern me
[21:11:41] <PetefromTn_> The table is bigger than my kitchen table LOL...
[21:11:58] <PetefromTn_> There is just no way you could setup anything from outside the machine.
[21:12:18] <Tom_itx> that big 8 spindle bar machine was like that
[21:12:38] <PetefromTn_> Even standing inside you have to reach way over just to get to the back side of the table...
[21:13:11] <PetefromTn_> Would you believe it is only Cat40 tho LOL
[21:13:24] <Tom_itx> high speed spindle?
[21:13:27] <PetefromTn_> They told me the shop they bought it from went out of business...
[21:13:30] <PetefromTn_> Nope
[21:13:46] <PetefromTn_> They said they used it strictly for making plastic parts that were quite large.
[21:14:02] <PetefromTn_> When I asked why NOT a high speed spindle they just shrugged their heads..
[21:14:16] <PetefromTn_> It does have 20 Haaspower tho LOL...
[21:14:33] <Connor_iPad> How fast?
[21:14:44] <PetefromTn_> It has 1000 IPM rapids...
[21:14:52] <Tom_itx> kinda an awkward machine it sounds like
[21:14:53] <PetefromTn_> 7500 RPM spindle.
[21:15:14] <Tom_itx> spindle for steel with feeds for aluminum etc
[21:15:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah kinda... but it can make very large parts tho...
[21:15:59] <PetefromTn_> Honestly this is the second shop I worked in temporarily that had all HAAS machining centers in it..
[21:16:18] <PetefromTn_> I am always hearing people bitch about how light duty and shitty they are...
[21:16:32] <PetefromTn_> But from what I have seen they make ACCURATE parts day in and day out...
[21:16:39] <Tom_itx> they're more or less like fadals
[21:16:52] <PetefromTn_> Many parts they make they need to hold tenths on and they do it quite easily...
[21:18:02] <Connor_iPad> 7500RPM isn't so low speed.
[21:19:06] <PetefromTn_> I made 400 parts from 4140 Preheat eariler this week and held plus or minus .0005 on an internal pocket easily. In fact I hardly had to adjust anything.. I could have held .0003 easily
[21:19:24] <XXCoder> heh scalp heads always are bleeder
[21:19:58] <PetefromTn_> three of the seven or eight machines has 10k spindles on them.
[21:20:08] <PetefromTn_> have
[21:21:13] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: ^ new tp running actual hardware...
[21:21:23] <Tom_itx> nice
[21:21:28] <Tom_itx> oh that little test mill?
[21:22:02] <XXCoder> skunkworks: awesome machine, but if platform rises isnt that like -Z?
[21:22:11] <skunkworks> yes
[21:22:16] <XXCoder> ok
[21:22:27] <Connor_iPad> Mini knee mill. :)
[21:22:35] <skunkworks> right - like you said ;)
[21:22:49] <skunkworks> it doesn't matter what moves...
[21:22:56] <skunkworks> table, spindle...
[21:23:04] <PetefromTn_> Is that the same company that makes the sweet little tabletop VMC with toolchanger?
[21:23:19] <Connor_iPad> Looks like it would make a nice engraving machine.
[21:23:19] <PetefromTn_> terco?
[21:23:35] <XXCoder> it looks tough enough to do that for steel
[21:23:46] <skunkworks> terco
[21:24:22] <skunkworks> it is like 7"X3"X2.75" movement
[21:24:34] <skunkworks> no huge - but usable
[21:24:40] <skunkworks> *not
[21:25:00] <Connor_iPad> Yea. Like I said. Good for engraving.
[21:26:34] <Connor_iPad> skunkworks: Where do you find those machines? You look for schools upgrading or something ?
[21:26:36] <PetefromTn_> damn It looks larger than that in the video...
[21:27:36] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol_sFbcKekM
[21:27:47] <PetefromTn_> Sweet little table top mill...
[21:27:58] <skunkworks> Connor_iPad: dad just happened to see an auction at a local school.. (high school even) also where he got the emco lathes.
[21:31:03] <Connor_iPad> Cool
[21:31:22] <XXCoder> very nice
[21:32:45] <Valen> i so want an atc
[21:33:34] <PetefromTn_> I tell you what I can't wait to have mine working LOL.... Using them at work they are SWEET!!
[21:33:51] <Tom_itx> Valen, anonimasu made one for his
[21:34:07] <PetefromTn_> Something else I found interesting on the Haas machines...
[21:34:19] <PetefromTn_> They have a G154 offset system.
[21:34:51] <Tom_itx> that's a machine unique gcode
[21:35:05] <XXCoder> heh I can't wait to actually start building my machine lol. very slow gathering of parts
[21:35:13] <PetefromTn_> Basically like we have G54-G59 they have G154 and up 200 offsets possible in addition to the typical ones.
[21:35:37] <Tom_itx> i'm not real sure why you'd need so many
[21:36:00] <PetefromTn_> I wonder why we cannot have G54.1 .2 .3 etc like G59.3...
[21:36:01] <Tom_itx> even if you're doing part scheduling
[21:36:15] <PetefromTn_> You probably never would....
[21:36:22] <PetefromTn_> but it is nice to know they are there.
[21:37:02] <PetefromTn_> I especially like the Operator coordinate system where you can locate fixtures etc without using an available offset
[21:37:03] <Tom_itx> i mean, the only machine i've ever seen that may use that was one with 8 toumbstones on a conveyor and 190 tool changer
[21:37:22] <Tom_itx> and they didn't use it to it's potential
[21:37:54] <PetefromTn_> Horizontal machining centers with tombstones can KICK ASS in production that is for sure.
[21:38:34] <PetefromTn_> Palletized parts and fixtures etc...when you gotta make parts real fast and run lights out...
[21:39:22] <PetefromTn_> Ya know there are things I do like about linuxCNC over the Haas control too tho...
[21:39:45] <PetefromTn_> For instance the graphical display is way nicer in multi colors on linuxCNC..
[21:40:51] <PetefromTn_> Haas has a graphical but it is very simple for program prerun to check stuff and it runs thru it very quickly... I am sure there are ways to slow it down but every time I have seen them use it the program is drawn in a couple seconds and the toolpaths are all that is visible...
[21:42:08] <PetefromTn_> The Haas has a jog lock feature where you can select an axis and setup a power feed using the jog buttons quickly.. Comes in real handy for manual milling or facing etc.
[21:42:32] <PetefromTn_> Not sure if you can do that in lunuxCNC without an MDI command.
[21:42:40] <Tom_itx> i think some of the trees did that
[21:43:04] <zeeshan> <- needs cnc like school
[21:43:05] <zeeshan> interface
[21:43:12] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/XTODa0K
[21:43:23] <zeeshan> i like how you can mill all these different features
[21:43:27] <zeeshan> right on the touch screen
[21:43:42] <PetefromTn_> Never heard too many good things about prototracks...
[21:43:52] <zeeshan> why
[21:43:52] <PetefromTn_> Other than they are simple to program.
[21:43:58] <zeeshan> it does everything you want it to
[21:44:03] <zeeshan> for a 3 axis
[21:44:05] <PetefromTn_> Just very conversational
[21:44:46] <XXCoder> oh yeah. I saw some machines has some game controller. is it for moving router around on cnc router manually?
[21:45:01] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vKDC8qo.jpg
[21:45:11] <PetefromTn_> Yeah you can setup some game controllers as a MPG kinda sorta...
[21:45:36] <Connor_iPad> Not sorta. You can. I hade it on my router.
[21:45:38] <PetefromTn_> Is that a trak DPMS bedmill>
[21:45:49] <zeeshan> no idea
[21:45:55] <PetefromTn_> I mean there is no MPG.
[21:45:56] <XXCoder> cool. dunno if would do it though lol
[21:46:20] <Connor_iPad> Pendant.
[21:46:34] <zeeshan> do you guys store your drills
[21:46:37] <zeeshan> in a drill index case like this
[21:46:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/M2q7CHU.jpg
[21:46:39] <PetefromTn_> What kinda bike are those jugs from?
[21:46:53] <XXCoder> more chanes I see zee
[21:46:55] <PetefromTn_> Similar but larger.
[21:47:00] <zeeshan> i have a full index
[21:47:03] <zeeshan> too
[21:47:08] <zeeshan> but i cant fit it on the shelf
[21:47:10] <XXCoder> you sure its secure? I guess its screwed direct to beams
[21:47:12] <zeeshan> cause the stupid cases are retarded
[21:47:18] <PetefromTn_> I need to buy some BETTER drills...
[21:47:19] <Connor_iPad> I have harbor freight ones.
[21:47:30] <zeeshan> my 'nice' set is the m42 irwin set
[21:47:34] <XXCoder> zee well you can always make custom low profile drill bit holders
[21:47:38] <zeeshan> but i rarely use it
[21:47:41] <zeeshan> unless im drilling out taps
[21:47:52] <zeeshan> XXCoder: pics
[21:47:55] <PetefromTn_> The shop uses some of those guhring drills and they are AMAZING....
[21:48:12] <zeeshan> i was hoping to remove the index from the case
[21:48:17] <PetefromTn_> EXPENSIVE..
[21:48:18] <zeeshan> and screw it directly to the bench
[21:48:50] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: what kind of drills
[21:48:54] <PetefromTn_> They use some of the Norseman drills too and they are reasonably priced but great quality. I may try to swing an index full of those at some point soon.
[21:49:27] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hanson-Irwin-29-Piece-Industrial-Cobalt-Steel-Drill-Bit-Set-1-16-1-2-M42-/160944682144?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25790cf4a0
[21:49:30] <zeeshan> thats my special set
[21:49:30] <PetefromTn_> Also use Chicago Latrobe or something like that...
[21:49:41] <XXCoder> Zee cant find it but it isnt complex, get a wood beam, drill holes in it using very drill bits you plan to insert in em
[21:49:45] <zeeshan> they've have excellent runout
[21:49:49] <XXCoder> bolt it on wall, done.
[21:49:53] <zeeshan> can drill through stainless like butter
[21:50:06] <zeeshan> and can even drill out taps
[21:50:15] <zeeshan> though i have some carbide bits for that
[21:50:16] <XXCoder> if drills is for metal use metal U beam, drill one side and other side will hold drills up
[21:50:22] <zeeshan> but they're easyto break when using a hand drill
[21:50:57] <XXCoder> bolt U beam, bottom of "U" towards wall. done
[21:51:16] <zeeshan> M42 is less prone to chipping or breakage than conventional M2 on tougher applications. Rockwell "C" scale hardness for M2 is 61 to 64; M42 is up to 68. - See more at: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/M42_high_speed_steel.html#sthash.UZIy8AG6.dpuf
[21:51:48] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/29-Pcs-Super-Premium-Drill-Bit-Index-Ultradex-Case-CTD-Norseman-SP-29P-/380830446311?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab4372e7
[21:52:10] <PetefromTn_> Some of the guys have that set in a full index... they are nice drills..
[21:52:36] <zeeshan> why are they nice
[21:52:59] <PetefromTn_> They just plain cut like butter thru whatever we put them in...
[21:53:17] <XXCoder> like tough steel?
[21:53:21] <PetefromTn_> Hold their edge
[21:53:40] <zeeshan> thats fairly cheap
[21:53:45] <zeeshan> i wonder how well they are compared to m42
[21:53:53] <zeeshan> buy me a set
[21:53:54] <zeeshan> :-)
[21:53:55] <zeeshan> !!
[21:53:56] <PetefromTn_> I machined a dozen pieces of a2 drilled and rigid tapped yesterday morning with one 4-40 and it was a breeze.
[21:54:17] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: got a new job?
[21:54:26] <PetefromTn_> four holes in each piece 5mmx5mmx36mm
[21:54:34] <zeeshan> Drills are heat treated at 2185 F and then nitro-carburize finished at 950 F to be measurably harder than high speed steel.
[21:54:38] <zeeshan> this information is so useless
[21:54:48] <zeeshan> just tell me the rc hardness!
[21:55:13] <Tom_itx> not the whole story
[21:55:14] <PetefromTn_> No just working temporarily in a local job shop..
[21:55:19] <Tom_itx> toughness it part of it
[21:56:05] <PetefromTn_> They are not top of the line drills but for the money I was surprised at how good they are... I will probably buy some here when I get some cash.
[21:56:07] <zeeshan> yea but as you get a harder drill bit
[21:56:11] <zeeshan> it'll decrease toughness
[21:56:13] <zeeshan> thats given
[21:56:16] <PetefromTn_> Right now I need some better tooling for the shop tho.
[21:56:29] <zeeshan> just means you need a more rigid machine/process
[21:56:37] <zeeshan> can't use with a regular hand drill :p
[21:57:06] <PetefromTn_> Today we drilled a hole with a number 60 drill in the VMC>...
[21:57:23] <PetefromTn_> TEENY TINY bit smallest hole I ever drilled..
[21:57:28] <Connor_iPad> So, drill chuck or collets ?
[21:57:29] <zeeshan> today i broke 4 1/16 end mills
[21:57:30] <XXCoder> unobtainableium drill bits heh
[21:57:33] <zeeshan> ;D
[21:57:37] <Connor_iPad> For drill bits
[21:57:54] <PetefromTn_> Aparently it is a drill made for PCB work,,
[21:58:02] <PetefromTn_> Oh collets man...COLLETS
[21:58:35] <zeeshan> btw guys
[21:58:36] <Connor_iPad> I've got to get some ER collets and holders.
[21:58:43] <zeeshan> CHECK OUT MY rotary valve
[21:58:49] <PetefromTn_> They have a bunch of ER16 collet holders in the shop there they use for all the small stuff.
[21:59:37] <Connor_iPad> I'm thinking of getting ER20's
[22:00:01] <PetefromTn_> I like my ER20 and ER32 holders and I am glad I got the ER20s for the smaller stuff but those ER16s are tiny...
[22:00:37] <PetefromTn_> On my Rf45 I had all ER20 holders and the rest setscrew holders. worked fine.
[22:00:45] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/n74UpDJ.jpg
[22:00:50] <PetefromTn_> Not sure if you can get ER16 tts holders or not.
[22:00:59] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/R5uyaLF.jpg
[22:01:03] <zeeshan> a little close to the jaws =]
[22:01:46] <zeeshan> dividing head is a pain in the butt to use
[22:02:09] <PetefromTn_> I liked my Yuasa Super spacer wish I never sold the damn thing
[22:02:33] <Connor_iPad> Tormach does both 20 and 16
[22:03:02] <PetefromTn_> Then thats cool you can have both..
[22:03:24] <zeeshan> er collets are cheap :P
[22:03:28] <PetefromTn_> I would probably get some 20s first and get a collet assortment or a buncha typical sizes.
[22:03:29] <zeeshan> buy 16, 20, 32
[22:03:32] <zeeshan> :P
[22:03:48] <Connor_iPad> No 32 in TTS
[22:03:58] <PetefromTn_> there is now apparently..
[22:04:26] <zeeshan> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=33266
[22:04:37] <PetefromTn_> http://www.santacruzelectronics.com/tormach/Tormach.cfm?do=detail&q_part=ER32-TTS&q_StartRow=1
[22:05:14] <PetefromTn_> Damn it is windy as hell outside....
[22:05:36] <zeeshan> that just looks so unsafe to use
[22:05:39] <zeeshan> the er32
[22:05:39] <zeeshan> lol
[22:05:45] <PetefromTn_> and I got a lump on my head where I bashed my fat head into that cutter LOL...
[22:06:13] <Valen> take a close look at it, make sure theres nothing in it
[22:06:17] <PetefromTn_> my wife gave me a tetanus shot this afternoon just in case..
[22:07:37] <PetefromTn_> we did besides the cutter was clean just cutting plastic UHMW all day..
[22:08:03] <PetefromTn_> I think I felt it poke my brain hehe
[22:08:28] <PetefromTn_> what a jackass LOL
[22:08:44] <zeeshan> tetanus shot is a good idea
[22:08:48] <zeeshan> when working around with metals and soils
[22:08:51] <zeeshan> ;p
[22:09:08] <PetefromTn_> I was more embarassed than hurt tho.
[22:10:01] <PetefromTn_> Tell you what I found the next DTI I am getting. Several of those guys have the Interapid ones. They are SWEET!!
[22:11:23] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Interapid-Test-Indicator-Model-312B-2-Resolution-0005-/321356381968?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad2553f1
[22:13:15] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTERAPID-312B-1-DIAL-INDICATOR-0005-made-in-SWITZERLAND-D-/351017619846?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51ba47d186
[22:13:22] <PetefromTn_> actually more like that one.
[22:13:39] <PetefromTn_> I like the larger dial and the angle of the face makes it easier to view.
[22:13:44] <Tom_itx> this job is gonna cost you money
[22:13:51] <PetefromTn_> Plus they are very well made and precise.
[22:13:56] <zeeshan> meh
[22:14:01] <zeeshan> mitutoyo ones do the same shit
[22:14:01] <zeeshan> ;p
[22:14:10] <PetefromTn_> LOL yea man but I want to do this for aliving so I need to get this stuff..
[22:14:15] <tjtr33> 8 phase stepper under linuxcnc http://youtu.be/L9lKrHAsM70
[22:14:18] <Tom_itx> mine's mitutoyo
[22:14:28] <zeeshan> i has both fowler and mitutoyo
[22:14:31] <Tom_itx> plenty accurate
[22:14:31] <zeeshan> 0.001 and 0.0005
[22:14:57] <zeeshan> if you have some already
[22:15:00] <zeeshan> why buy more!
[22:15:02] <PetefromTn_> Yeah those are all top quality units unlike my Chinko POS..
[22:15:11] <zeeshan> don't underestimate your chinko pos
[22:15:24] <zeeshan> i've got respect for some chinko tools :)
[22:15:29] <zeeshan> i told you what i did the other day right?
[22:15:30] <PetefromTn_> You have never used my Chinko POS and I have used their Interapid...
[22:15:40] <PetefromTn_> Believe me there is a measurable difference...
[22:15:43] <zeeshan> i tested my mastercraft (chinko) calipers
[22:15:51] <zeeshan> on starrett gauge blocks
[22:15:56] <PetefromTn_> Calipers are NOT precision tools....
[22:16:07] <zeeshan> +/-0.001" is pretty precise enough.
[22:16:13] <zeeshan> for 90% of applications
[22:16:35] <zeeshan> which is the resolution of both the mitutoyo digimatic and mastercraft calipers
[22:16:41] <tjtr33> get a good solid indicator holder like Noga
[22:16:51] <zeeshan> tjtr33: too much $!
[22:17:01] <PetefromTn_> I do the same thing with my chinese calipers and on standards they hit the mark but .001 is wide open when it comes to machine work really and the .0005 is just somewhere in the middle LOL.
[22:17:05] <zeeshan> https://www.shars.com/products/view/1408/Hydraulic_Magnetic_Base
[22:17:08] <zeeshan> that works just as good
[22:17:08] <zeeshan> :)
[22:17:22] <PetefromTn_> NOGA are excellnt love the hydraulic ones..
[22:17:31] <zeeshan> this ones hydraulic too ;p
[22:17:53] <PetefromTn_> really have you compared them to a real Noga?
[22:17:59] <zeeshan> don't need to
[22:18:03] <zeeshan> it holds a frigging indicator
[22:18:05] <PetefromTn_> That is CHEAP if they are even close...
[22:18:05] <zeeshan> i'd see if its flexing
[22:18:11] <zeeshan> :P
[22:18:19] <zeeshan> i have its baby brother too
[22:18:57] <zeeshan> http://www.shars.com/products/view/1456/Test_Indicator_Holder_Arm_Only
[22:19:06] <Tom_itx> all our first off articles went thru the cmm
[22:19:09] <zeeshan> i don't know if this ones hydraulic
[22:19:22] <Tom_itx> with a printout
[22:19:26] <zeeshan> but it works great than those typical zero sets
[22:19:44] <zeeshan> but the only thing i like about the typical zero set holder is
[22:19:46] <zeeshan> the fine adjust
[22:19:51] <zeeshan> but its really not that big of a deal for me
[22:20:17] <Connor_iPad> I have a zero set.
[22:20:31] <PetefromTn_> WTF man...
[22:20:32] <Connor_iPad> And a dti. Both are cheap Shars.
[22:20:46] <PetefromTn_> what did I miss.
[22:20:50] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[22:20:54] <zeeshan> http://www.shars.com/products/view/1456/Test_Indicator_Holder_Arm_Only
[22:20:57] <zeeshan> indicator's little bother
[22:21:02] <zeeshan> just was mentioning
[22:21:06] <zeeshan> they don't have 'fine adjust'
[22:21:08] <zeeshan> like noga
[22:21:13] <zeeshan> i'd prolly say thats the biggest difference
[22:21:50] <PetefromTn_> Yeah that fine adjust is nice and tight too... Played with it today.
[22:22:11] <PetefromTn_> ALtho those shars models look pretty decent especially for the price.
[22:22:23] <zeeshan> the big base the red one
[22:22:24] <zeeshan> i posted
[22:22:26] <zeeshan> has fine adjust
[22:22:29] <zeeshan> just not the blue one
[22:22:35] <Connor_iPad> So, is it common practice to have dti mounted in its own tool holder all the time ?
[22:22:46] <zeeshan> thats how we do it at school
[22:22:56] <zeeshan> cause you usually are using 3/8 collets
[22:23:00] <zeeshan> for your end mills anyway
[22:23:21] <jdh> mine lives in one like that, but it has a spindle clamp
[22:23:33] <zeeshan> i really dislike the spindle clamp one
[22:23:39] <Connor_iPad> Spindle clamp?
[22:23:41] <jdh> send it to me
[22:23:41] <PetefromTn_> I need to pickup a nicer DTI, a depth micrometer with different anvils, a better starret model edgefinder, a set of standards shop grade and a few other things so I am not borrowing other guys shit.
[22:23:45] <zeeshan> no
[22:23:53] <zeeshan> its nice cause you can keep your end mill in
[22:24:14] <PetefromTn_> Spindle clamp ones are nice and lots of the other guys have them there...
[22:24:17] <tjtr33> get a blase deep mike, handy for narrow spots
[22:24:19] <jdh> or a chuck, or a edge finder
[22:24:21] <tjtr33> blade
[22:24:39] <zeeshan> jdh we're not production machinists :P
[22:24:39] <nnnn> is there a way to empirically find out the gear ratio from a robot arm- its not as easy as the encoder lead screw pitch thing
[22:24:40] <PetefromTn_> you like the blade ones huh...
[22:24:42] <zeeshan> stop being lazy!
[22:24:50] <tjtr33> ask any moldmaker
[22:25:07] <PetefromTn_> got a link?
[22:25:16] <zeeshan> http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/accusizetools/the-956/HE20-dsh-1501%2C-UNIVERSAL-INDICATOR-HOLDER/Detail
[22:25:19] <zeeshan> thats the 'clamp style'
[22:25:34] <zeeshan> fits on a typical bridgeport spindle
[22:25:58] <PetefromTn_> No the ones they have are more like the blue one you posted and fit on ANY spindle almost.
[22:26:01] <tjtr33> http://www.judgetool.com/starrett449seriesdepthmicrometerwithnon-rotatingblades.aspx
[22:26:18] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i think thats an interapid one
[22:26:26] <Connor_iPad> So touch probe or camera for edge finding etc?
[22:26:53] <zeeshan> heres name brand one
[22:27:02] <zeeshan> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/8206-20-757-1-spi-holder-test-indicator-attachments-accessories.html
[22:27:06] <zeeshan> these are quite famous
[22:27:16] <zeeshan> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/45658-13-167-2-spi-holder-test-indicator-attachments-accessories.html
[22:27:18] <PetefromTn_> Touch probe is sweet but we use edgefinders in the shop all day long...they do not have spindle probes...
[22:27:54] <PetefromTn_> SPI makes decent stuff I think..
[22:28:02] <zeeshan> spi is swiss right?
[22:28:12] <tjtr33> hehe old school, super accurate http://www.titantoolsupply.com/Low_Cost_Centering_Projector
[22:28:26] <PetefromTn_> That depth mic is very nice. I need to get one like that maybe try to find used one.
[22:28:46] <zeeshan> tjtr33: lol
[22:28:56] <tjtr33> lotsa old moldmakers , they'd like their tools used
[22:29:00] <Connor_iPad> I'm just departing which one would be best to use. Camera or touch probe
[22:29:12] <Connor_iPad> Debating.
[22:29:16] <jdh> probe
[22:29:17] <zeeshan> is camera accurate?
[22:29:24] <zeeshan> doesn't sound too accurate
[22:29:47] <tjtr33> more automatic for sure, no human needed
[22:29:49] <PetefromTn_> Depends on how well the probe is made some are amazingly accurate.
[22:29:56] <Connor_iPad> They can be after you calibrate them.
[22:30:29] <zeeshan> well i've never seen a camera mounted inspection system in a quality control room
[22:30:35] <zeeshan> its always cmms with digital probes
[22:30:45] <zeeshan> camera mounted i've seen for quick inspection at the end of the line
[22:30:47] <PetefromTn_> They have a LARGE older starrett CMM machine at work there and it has a very precise touch probe on it. Probably costs more than my house LOL...
[22:32:03] <Connor_iPad> Things I need to buy. Ball screws, CNC vise, touch probe, more TTS tool holders
[22:32:21] <PetefromTn_> Its a sickness man..
[22:32:21] <nnnn> is there a way to empirically find out the gear ratio from a robot arm- its not as easy as the encoder lead screw pitch thing
[22:32:27] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: trust me rofl
[22:32:38] <zeeshan> if i show you guys a video of a walkaround of the garage and basement
[22:32:48] <zeeshan> youll see im a hoarder
[22:32:48] <zeeshan> =[
[22:32:55] <zeeshan> my basement is full of metal
[22:33:10] <zeeshan> from my 50$ for 500lb of steel type of kijiji finds
[22:33:14] <PetefromTn_> Most folks crap their pants when they step down into my shop/garage LOL...
[22:33:29] <zeeshan> i've been organizing my stuff
[22:33:34] <zeeshan> anything not being used -> sell
[22:33:39] <zeeshan> no more hoarding
[22:33:40] <nnnn> is there a way to empirically find out the gear ratio from a robot arm- its not as easy as the encoder lead screw pitch thing
[22:33:57] <PetefromTn_> People are not expecting to see a machining center in the garge typically LOL.
[22:34:00] <zeeshan> nnn you can rotate it in joint mode
[22:34:08] <zeeshan> at certain degrees? :p
[22:34:29] <nnnn> yeah i can, but its off since my calibration in lcnc is off
[22:34:34] <nnnn> but i can rotate it in joint mode
[22:34:41] <nnnn> i feel like im so close to getting this thing to work
[22:35:47] <PetefromTn_> if you can rotate it can you not measure the angles it turns and figure the error from there?
[22:36:01] <nnnn> not really that easy because the error accumulates
[22:36:20] <nnnn> so i have to get the angle exactly right
[22:36:26] <nnnn> or else ill eventually be off
[22:36:33] <nnnn> by alot
[22:36:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah but can you not move it some small increment and compare the commanded to the actual?
[22:37:08] <zeeshan> you need a fancy protactor
[22:37:29] <PetefromTn_> maybe exxagerate the angle with a long arm and pointer
[22:38:11] <nnnn> yeah not a bad idea
[22:38:12] <PetefromTn_> We used to draw large radii on the floor of the woodshop all the time and swing large accurate arcs with a long board and pointer.
[22:38:48] <nnnn> i think i can draw radii with the arm itself...
[22:39:07] <zeeshan> tomorrow is going to be an awesome day
[22:39:11] <zeeshan> i got my iron ring
[22:39:14] <zeeshan> => engineer!
[22:39:20] <PetefromTn_> measure the length of the arm, command some movement, measure the distance traveled at the end...
[22:39:49] <PetefromTn_> Oh jeez so you will be one of those that knows everything and nothing at the same time LOL...
[22:40:09] <PetefromTn_> Congrats man.. Jealous.
[22:40:19] <Valen> is an iron ring actually a thing?
[22:40:19] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[22:40:44] <PetefromTn_> I seen a guy make a cool titanium ring that had gears in it....LOL
[22:41:06] <XXCoder> heh I wonder if theres a way to find scrap thick alum sheet parts
[22:41:15] <PetefromTn_> http://gearhungry.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Kinect-gear-ring.jpg.jpg
[22:41:30] <Valen> I mean my wife made me a stainless wedding ring
[22:41:34] <XXCoder> pete someone 3d printed a large version of it. it worked.
[22:41:45] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: haha
[22:41:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it is not NEARLY as cool...
[22:41:53] <Valen> but "iron ring" sounds more like something you get from eating too much chilli
[22:41:53] <zeeshan> i try my best not to have a know it all attitude
[22:41:57] <XXCoder> one shot printing. none of building lol
[22:42:07] <XXCoder> yeah not as cool but hey single print lol
[22:42:17] <zeeshan> http://www.eng.mcmaster.ca/news/news2008/images/iron_ring.jpg
[22:42:21] <zeeshan> thats what it looks like
[22:42:25] <zeeshan> its actually stainless
[22:42:44] <PetefromTn_> I like the geared one better LOL
[22:43:18] <zeeshan> iron ring is just a ring that symbolizes the responsibility we're taking and oath we've taken
[22:43:23] <XXCoder> lol wont it bind though?
[22:43:40] <zeeshan> and to remind us that our decisions can have negative impact on others
[22:43:49] <zeeshan> negligence has heavy consequences
[22:44:07] <PetefromTn_> Connor http://greenville.craigslist.org/tls/4384570565.html Here is your granite plate man...Local.
[22:44:17] <zeeshan> damn thats cheap
[22:44:17] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_, sometimes you have to measure a depth near a wall and the base of the deep mike wont let you get close, so there's 1/2 base deep mikes http://www.guardiancatalog.com/Starrett-52173-p/86417458.htm
[22:44:23] <zeeshan> $125!
[22:44:51] <XXCoder> I gonna ask a question - why is ispection table always grante?
[22:45:02] <PetefromTn_> Damn man no pic...
[22:45:16] <zeeshan> XXCoder: flat!
[22:45:18] <XXCoder> I went with my friend to his machinist class shop and they had table
[22:45:24] <zeeshan> to like 0.000005"
[22:45:25] <PetefromTn_> Some are steel but granite are ground flat and stay that way
[22:45:34] <XXCoder> flat that dont alter with temperete and such I guess
[22:45:38] <PetefromTn_> regardless of temp changes.
[22:45:46] <tjtr33> sorry http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/63540-52173-starrett-mechanical-depth-micrometers.html
[22:45:52] <Connor_iPad> Too big for my shop
[22:46:04] <zeeshan> oh give me a break
[22:46:07] <XXCoder> I guess thats why its important - to test other stuff you need good surface
[22:46:07] <zeeshan> go buy that!
[22:46:24] <Connor_iPad> Think 18 x 24 is good size
[22:46:34] <PetefromTn_> I have one already..
[22:46:47] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: find me a nice set of brown and sharp v-blocks
[22:46:48] <zeeshan> sets
[22:46:50] <zeeshan> for cheap!
[22:46:57] <zeeshan> or starrett
[22:47:38] <Connor_iPad> Dude. I have a 7' x 11' room for my shop.
[22:47:45] <PetefromTn_> I want some collet closer and 5c sets for my shop too...
[22:48:21] <Connor_iPad> With a 34" x 7' stainless steel elevator door for a work bench.
[22:48:24] <PetefromTn_> They use them a bunch at the shop and they are really easy to setup on the mill.
[22:48:55] <PetefromTn_> that'll fit on it....LOL
[22:49:27] <zeeshan> haha
[22:49:28] <zeeshan> thats awesome
[22:49:35] <zeeshan> i never thought of using an elevator door as a bench
[22:49:37] <Connor_iPad> You need to come by and visit my tiny workshop.
[22:49:48] <PetefromTn_> I do actually..
[22:50:07] <PetefromTn_> Make me stop whining about how small my own shop is for a minute or two...
[22:50:18] <zeeshan> BIGGER IS BETTER!
[22:50:23] <Connor_iPad> zeeshan: It's on a I beam rack that was used to hold bombs in the air force.
[22:50:27] <zeeshan> need 1000000 sq ft shop!
[22:50:37] <zeeshan> Connor: haha
[22:50:43] <Connor_iPad> Was my dads.
[22:50:58] <zeeshan> we all need to take some panoramic photos
[22:51:01] <zeeshan> of our work shops
[22:52:10] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan You learning Mastercam there?
[22:52:55] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302139 http://imagebin.org/302136 http://imagebin.org/302145 I found a webcam with this res at a focus of ~1"
[22:52:57] <Connor_iPad> I've got to start cleaning my office. Everything has to be picked up. Pulling out the carpet.
[22:54:01] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Hard to tell without knowing how big those parts are
[22:54:02] <CaptHindsight> it should be good enough for auto zero +/- 0.001"
[22:54:10] <zeeshan> i learned masteram in college
[22:54:14] <zeeshan> nx in university
[22:54:23] <zeeshan> help me decide
[22:54:26] <zeeshan> black shirt grey pants
[22:54:31] <zeeshan> dark blue tie? ;p
[22:54:35] <zeeshan> striped
[22:54:36] <zeeshan> hm
[22:54:36] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: http://imagebin.org/302145 there's an inch scale on the top
[22:54:44] <PetefromTn_> Do you think you can make a working post for my LinuxCNC machine?
[22:55:06] <zeeshan> i think if you just use the standard post processory
[22:55:16] <PetefromTn_> How fine a crosshair can you put in that viewport?
[22:55:17] <zeeshan> and remove all circular references
[22:55:19] <zeeshan> it should work
[22:55:31] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302139 the traces are in mils 0.001"
[22:55:57] <PetefromTn_> They want me to learn mastercam at work so I can do more stuff for them and I want to learn it so when I move to Florida I can get a good job in MOST shops if I need to.
[22:56:10] <XXCoder> isnt mastercam very expensive
[22:56:15] <zeeshan> i have a video tutorial set
[22:56:16] <zeeshan> if you want
[22:56:24] <zeeshan> its a dvd
[22:56:26] <PetefromTn_> REALLY that would be great..
[22:56:28] <toastyde1th> mastercam is really expensive, yes
[22:56:30] <CaptHindsight> mastercam is ~$10k and up
[22:56:33] <toastyde1th> it's also terrible software
[22:56:41] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: terrible if you dont know how to use it
[22:56:43] <CaptHindsight> at least for the 5 axis we have
[22:56:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is actually stupid expensive but it is what most of the pro shops around here use.
[22:56:51] <XXCoder> interesting. ok
[22:56:59] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, is the lighting tricky at 1"? use a ring of leds or what?
[22:57:32] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: what version
[22:57:37] <zeeshan> mastercam X3 x4r?
[22:57:39] <zeeshan> x4
[22:57:40] <toastyde1th> no, it's pretty much terrible but it's one of the only options that isn't bound to a particular cam package and it has a bunch of features
[22:57:46] <toastyde1th> er, cad
[22:57:49] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: yeah, those pics were from the green led inside and a white led flashlight I was holding in my hands
[22:57:50] <PetefromTn_> X7 I think...
[22:58:01] <zeeshan> mastercam multaxis tool paths
[22:58:06] <zeeshan> are the best
[22:58:18] <toastyde1th> the software itself is like driving nails into your forehead, but it gets the job done in complex machining situations
[22:58:25] <PetefromTn_> They have some really clever toolpath strategies that much is clear.
[22:58:25] <toastyde1th> that it can do the job doesn't mean it does it well, just that it's done
[22:58:37] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/302133 Logitech C270
[22:58:40] <XXCoder> well glad I dont plan complex macgune setup. thanks/
[22:59:02] <CaptHindsight> ^^ 8mm ID bearing
[22:59:17] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: the videos are only for mastercam mill
[22:59:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is all I really need it for right now anyways.
[23:00:02] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://imagebin.org/302203 the keiling after cleanup and anodize
[23:00:06] <PetefromTn_> They have a bunch of turning centers but they got one guy who programs all of them.
[23:00:16] <zeeshan> how can i send you a 272 mb file
[23:00:51] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, bring one over, i bet we can powder coat it for you
[23:00:59] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://imagebin.org/302200 they are machined well, just shoddy assembly
[23:01:08] <PetefromTn_> did you make that?
[23:01:38] <PetefromTn_> Maybe an image? file?
[23:01:48] <zeeshan> no its a zip file
[23:01:57] <XXCoder> can't wait to see it complete capt lol
[23:01:58] <zeeshan> the .exe pops up the different tutorial videos
[23:02:00] <PetefromTn_> Dunno the limit on zips...
[23:02:20] <zeeshan> oh
[23:02:21] <zeeshan> dropbox!
[23:02:28] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: do you have a gun a oven?
[23:02:33] <CaptHindsight> a/and
[23:02:40] <XXCoder> that pic gives me ideas on my cnc design too
[23:03:16] <PetefromTn_> yeah dropbox, I have that too..
[23:03:17] <zeeshan> 17 min to upload
[23:03:21] <zeeshan> sec
[23:03:25] <XXCoder> dopbox is nice yep
[23:03:58] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Did you build that?
[23:03:58] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, they do car parts all the time, like up to 24x12x6 , the oven looks bigger
[23:04:32] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, this is my Sable 2015 http://grabcad.com/library/sable-2015 taiwanese
[23:04:34] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I'm reworking the routers by Keiling/automation technologies
[23:04:38] <XXCoder> capt is rails SBR? I dont see rod supports
[23:05:27] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: they are machined well but assembled poorly, the one of the left has 1/8" of play in the Y axis out of the box
[23:05:56] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, yours moves gantry. mine moves Y table
[23:06:04] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: yes, they are anodized black
[23:06:27] <XXCoder> no wonder couldnt see em. Nice!
[23:06:38] <PetefromTn_> http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Ducati-Superbike-999d.jpg DROOLLL........
[23:06:55] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: http://imagebin.org/302200 you can see it better here
[23:07:18] <XXCoder> yep
[23:07:22] <PetefromTn_> http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Ducati-Superbike-999c.jpg
[23:07:33] <Connor_iPad> Not side mounted ?
[23:07:59] <PetefromTn_> Is that rail supported or unsupported Cannot tell from the pics?
[23:07:59] <CaptHindsight> I just got the X to have too little lash for me to measure
[23:08:10] <CaptHindsight> bottom mounted
[23:08:30] <CaptHindsight> bottom mounted supports
[23:08:45] <XXCoder> how do you test lash?
[23:08:47] <PetefromTn_> Does the gantry rock front to back?
[23:08:54] <zeeshan> dial indicator
[23:09:03] <PetefromTn_> DTI
[23:09:04] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_, at the WeatherTech floormat office, the owner has a bike collection, has a Vincent Black Shadow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Black_Shadow
[23:09:27] <Connor_iPad> Yea. That sucks. My DIY bottom mounted. Has issues with the gantry.
[23:09:29] <PetefromTn_> The superbike before there were superbikes LOL.
[23:10:03] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE Ducati's ... That black monster is my dream bike. Like a two wheeled Enzo X....
[23:10:07] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I'm using these for non-contact printing and deposition. If I was using it for cutting that gantry would be much thicker
[23:10:13] <Connor_iPad> Ballscreew keeps it from rocking. Not ideal.
[23:11:10] <PetefromTn_> Yeah but I meant does the linear bearings have play on the rails allowing the gantry to rock forward and backwards?
[23:11:22] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I'd say for aluminum plate/sheet up to 1/8" it's ok as is for cutting
[23:11:30] <Connor_iPad> Split bearings. Yea.
[23:11:35] <Connor_iPad> Not ideal.
[23:11:48] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: nope they are tight
[23:12:00] <CaptHindsight> Connor: yeah not the best for cutting
[23:12:05] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, we got one AGie moving under linuxcnc, oughtta be precise & good for non-contact http://youtu.be/L9lKrHAsM70
[23:12:11] <PetefromTn_> How much is something like that?
[23:12:17] <PetefromTn_> and what are the travels?
[23:12:42] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: 45cm x 30cm ~$700 with steppers and no controls
[23:13:36] <PetefromTn_> Holy crap what the hell do you work at nasa or something... what a shop!
[23:14:15] <CaptHindsight> heh, yeah I build for Nasa and JPL at times
[23:14:47] <PetefromTn_> Is that video tjtr33's or yours?
[23:14:55] <tjtr33> mine
[23:14:57] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33's
[23:15:38] <tjtr33> was that coment to me? haha its an EDM graveyard hahaha
[23:15:51] <PetefromTn_> Are those EDM machines repurposed or something?
[23:15:52] <CaptHindsight> looks impressive
[23:16:26] <PetefromTn_> They have a couple EDm machines at the place I am working now. One of them can drill and feed the wire automatically... Pretty damn sweet.
[23:16:48] <tjtr33> we make 'em do whatever you want. i got a 4 axis 32tool toolchanger sink cnc next to that, rebuilding now
[23:17:31] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: let me know before you junk anything, suddenly everyone wants custom machines
[23:17:39] <tjtr33> but my buddy wants to make that wedm into a reprap, he bought a head tonite
[23:18:30] <PetefromTn_> Sinkers are nice...
[23:18:36] <tjtr33> my specialty
[23:18:53] <PetefromTn_> Do you machine your own electrodes?
[23:19:11] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/300638 there was 1mm of play around both bearing mounts
[23:19:12] <PetefromTn_> or whatever you call them?
[23:19:31] <tjtr33> i make machines, dotn run 'em much. but i do grind my own electrodes
[23:19:35] <PetefromTn_> Did you bush them or something?
[23:20:07] <Connor_iPad> I think some of the ebay ones are side mounted gantry rails
[23:20:10] <tjtr33> i use 3R, Hrischmann or Erowa holders
[23:20:33] <PetefromTn_> Typical Chinese stuff, buy it, take it all apart, fix the bullshit, put it back together right LOL...
[23:20:43] <CaptHindsight> yup
[23:20:55] <CaptHindsight> still cheaper than starting from scratch
[23:21:01] <nnnn> ayways to find out passwork to lcnc computer
[23:21:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah if the overall package fits your needs.
[23:21:27] <CaptHindsight> I wouldn't use them for cutting
[23:22:09] <PetefromTn_> They need to make a machine about the size of the IH/RF45 mill with a belt driven spindle like the tormach only beefier with 30 taper holders and comes with good quality ballscrews...
[23:22:35] <PetefromTn_> and not screw it up or price it too high.
[23:22:36] <Valen> I'm not wedded to belt driven spindle
[23:22:40] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I looked over all the other sizes at keiling as well
[23:22:43] <Valen> what does that net you?
[23:22:52] <CaptHindsight> they all need some TLC
[23:23:05] <PetefromTn_> timing gear drive and higher speed...
[23:23:38] <PetefromTn_> preferrably dual range timing belt setup with high speed bearings.
[23:23:39] <CaptHindsight> I wish they didn't paint them, they are all overspray or full of mop streaks
[23:23:58] <PetefromTn_> Oh don't get me started about chinese mop paint jobs man... LOL
[23:24:14] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if they just dip them in the stuff and hang them out to dry...
[23:24:35] <PetefromTn_> after they baste them in Bondo...
[23:24:58] <CaptHindsight> it's probably a mop or genuine grass brush
[23:25:06] <tjtr33> heh yeah its amazing how the bondo evens out the crappy castings
[23:25:21] <PetefromTn_> My RF45 had enough bondo on it un-necessarily to build a dozen old hotrods..
[23:25:52] <PetefromTn_> actually my casting was decent they screwed it up with the Bondo...believe it or not.
[23:26:10] <PetefromTn_> I got some pics of that somewhere in my thread on the zone LOL...
[23:26:52] <PetefromTn_> They even bondoed and painted the base and the column together and covered the four tram bolts in it so you could not tram the damn mill....
[23:27:03] <XXCoder> lol
[23:27:10] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: http://cindyrosstraveler.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/china-624.jpg probably something like these
[23:27:21] <XXCoder> I guess first thing you did was strip every bondo and paint
[23:27:34] <PetefromTn_> I had to take a die grinder with a ziss wheel to it to cut a groove around where the two meet.
[23:28:21] <PetefromTn_> Let me put it this way I spent a weekend COVERED in white Bondo dust from all the grinding and sanding to get down to bare metal..
[23:29:08] <PetefromTn_> Then I sprayed some industrial epoxy primer on it and painted it with some nice industrial machine paint I had tinted to a cream color I liked.
[23:29:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router all the large routers look pretty rough up close and in person
[23:30:27] <tjtr33> hell money! the bike trolley is fulla hell money. burn it, it goes up to heaven, and down comes real money
[23:30:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl-6090-cnc-router the opening on the Y axis looks like it was done with a radio Shack nibbling tool
[23:30:56] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ha-3hzgFiQ&list=UUFCopiUpaDrS5VBkrYFuGFQ Here it is right after I got it painted and working.
[23:31:45] <CaptHindsight> sorry I meant the opening on the X axis gantry
[23:33:19] <CaptHindsight> I wonder what the molds look like for those castings?
[23:33:21] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_, nice little machine , dovetail too, nice rebuild
[23:34:55] <tjtr33> wow 5K$ i wont ask about the 4'x8' size then
[23:34:55] <PetefromTn_> Thanks.., God I can't believe all the work I did on that little mill... Freakin' crazy. Sure wish I had used LinuxCNC and gone with some DMM servos or something I would probably still own it.
[23:36:21] <PetefromTn_> You think that floating bridged table design is worth a damn? Looks like a long span of nothing support under the force of the cutter no?
[23:36:30] <CaptHindsight> Connor_iPad: the split bearings aren't the greatest either, they are pretty noisy the first 1K actions
[23:37:06] <CaptHindsight> I'd pay more for them if they actually used some better parts
[23:39:29] <Connor> So, how many tools in a tool changer for a G0704 ? Need to figure out the diameter of the carousel..
[23:39:40] <Connor> 8, 10, 12, 16 ?
[23:40:14] <PetefromTn_> Probably eight or ten.
[23:40:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.g0704.com/ tool changer for these?
[23:40:34] <PetefromTn_> I have a start of a drawing I did for the RF45 but there is not much there yet.
[23:40:40] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Yes
[23:42:02] <Connor> I was thinking 10 or 12..
[23:42:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/KL-6090-h.jpg look closely at the spindle and fasteners
[23:42:30] <Connor> I guess I need to draw up one of each.. and figure out the diameter size.. and see how well they look on the machine ..
[23:42:59] <CaptHindsight> looks like they used a new brush to paint this one :)
[23:42:59] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Yea..looks like they messed one of the holes up..
[23:43:44] <CaptHindsight> that how they all look, like HS shop projects
[23:44:01] <PetefromTn_> ROFL...
[23:44:16] <CaptHindsight> from the C students
[23:44:57] <PetefromTn_> Hell my RF45 looks better than that after I worked it over some....
[23:45:48] <XXCoder> heh mine would probably end up look like shpop reject student's reject ;)
[23:46:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/6090-Z-axis_.jpg
[23:46:28] <Connor> No bearing block ?
[23:46:33] <Connor> that sucks
[23:46:40] <XXCoder> SBR rails work on top and side but not upside down right?
[23:46:48] <XXCoder> any con on sideways?
[23:46:53] <nnnn> so im having an interesting problem
[23:46:56] <nnnn> my arm is working now
[23:47:03] <nnnn> but all of he motions are inverted
[23:47:09] <nnnn> it isnt getting the tracking error which is good
[23:47:11] <Connor> XXCoder: correct
[23:47:22] <nnnn> but when i do plus on the z axis it moves in the negative direction
[23:47:25] <nnnn> and same with angles
[23:47:27] <CaptHindsight> they probably figure it's only 3-4 inches for Z, so why not
[23:47:29] <Connor> On side is better in most cases..
[23:48:18] <XXCoder> Ok. I was thinking upside for X, Y sideways. Z well rail up/down. dont think has choice
[23:48:37] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqZoaWKv2k#t=70 What a jackass LOL...
[23:48:45] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/300374 this one doesn't do any cutting
[23:48:58] <nnnn> anyone?
[23:49:01] <XXCoder> pete yeah saw it. laughed my ass off
[23:49:06] <Connor> Up/Down okay.. UPSIDE down isn't
[23:49:19] <XXCoder> okay
[23:49:45] <nnnn> all of my axis are inverted but they are tracking
[23:49:52] <Connor> On my router, the blocks are stationary, the rails move up and down.
[23:50:26] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: what type of motors?
[23:50:35] <nnnn> dc encoser
[23:50:37] <nnnn> encoder
[23:50:39] <nnnn> servos
[23:51:40] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: which servo amps? what type of input? analog 10V +/_ ?
[23:52:02] <nnnn> servo amps?
[23:52:30] <nnnn> its a mesa 7143 hooked into two mesa 7125
[23:52:33] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: are you using STEP and DIRECTION?
[23:52:35] <PetefromTn_> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fP1y4T5-DFE/TPnKO-4dUqI/AAAAAAAAEYU/_3C-py-n1Rk/s1600/Black_Ducati_999_3156.jpg I'd put it in my bedroom and rub it with a daiper whispering...MY PRECIOUS,,,,LOL
[23:52:48] <nnnn> no using step and direction
[23:52:56] <nnnn> umm i dont think i am
[23:53:53] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc3.jpg
[23:54:12] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc1.jpg
[23:55:00] <nnnn> if i reverse the dir in the hal file i get a following error
[23:55:52] <CaptHindsight> nnnn: I never used the 7i25's I'm looking at the data sheet, they have DIR inputs for each motor
[23:56:40] <nnnn> hmm so i should wire that up?
[23:57:05] <tjtr33> nnnn explain the machine you are using. is it standard XYZ cartesian or some more complex kinematics?
[23:57:06] <CaptHindsight> PCW: you around?
[23:58:27] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, nnnn called it his 'arm' so his upside down Z motion maybe many motors moving at once
[23:59:38] <tjtr33> so it'd be kins, not inverting a signal ( i think )