#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-22

[00:01:09] <PetefromTn_> interesting...so which one can you control electronically?
[00:01:26] <R2E4_> the one onthe head
[00:02:30] <R2E4_> I'm getting excited. I am getting real close
[00:03:01] <R2E4_> I have tuniong on each axis to do and program homing.
[00:03:15] <R2E4_> Each step I have to read and figure out how to do it.
[00:03:31] <R2E4_> ITs amazing how these guys here klnows this stuff as good as they do.
[00:04:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah man wish I did LOL...
[00:04:38] <PetefromTn_> The toolchanger is gonna be the most challenging for me I think.
[00:06:32] <R2E4_> Yeah, I love ladder logic though. I used to program plc's for door interlocks and stuff.
[00:07:20] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda surprised that there are not already several people with working umbrella style changers that have done it before us. I mean with a Z movement in there tooo.. that is a very common setup for machining centers.
[00:07:41] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately we are not gonna be using ladder logic.
[00:09:05] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I had a thought.. Maybe we use a "encoder" with the tool pocket switch..
[00:09:18] <PetefromTn_> Well it's past my bedtime folks talk tomorrow. Good luck R2E4...
[00:09:19] <Connor> maybe we can get it to keep track of the counts for us...
[00:09:25] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[00:09:42] <r2e4_1\> oops, got cut off
[00:09:45] <Connor> use the pocket switch as encoder pulse.. and feed it into encoder hal component.
[00:09:56] <PetefromTn_> lemme switch to my phone so I can get in bed hang on a sec...
[00:10:01] <r2e4_1\> Thanks Conner for helping out.
[00:17:43] <PetefromTn_Andro> Okay back again
[00:18:12] <zeeshan> got a bigger drill press
[00:18:12] <zeeshan> :D
[00:18:14] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/86307D91-3469-4E08-85B7-26471F0058BB_zpsprgmamcc.jpg
[00:18:23] <PetefromTn_Andro> Now what about an encoder?
[00:18:24] <zeeshan> 360lb vs my old drill press which was 120lb
[00:18:34] <zeeshan> drilled a 1" hole with it no problem
[00:19:10] <Connor_iPad> Use prod sensor as encoder input
[00:19:49] <PetefromTn_Andro> Prox
[00:19:51] <Connor_iPad> Prox sensor
[00:20:37] <PetefromTn_Andro> Honestly just a regular input can be setup the same way no?
[00:21:06] <Connor_iPad> Yea. Hal has a encoder input.
[00:21:24] <PetefromTn_Andro> If not we still have the fifth axis available.
[00:23:41] <r2e4_1\> WOW: You need long drill bits.
[00:24:57] <r2e4_1\> pin 16,17,18 and 19 are encoder inputs also.
[00:25:03] <r2e4_1\> on your 7i77
[00:25:04] <zeeshan> i posted the wrong pic r2e4_1\
[00:25:04] <zeeshan> lol
[00:25:18] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/628E2EE7-1FCF-402B-940C-3B3A6E424244_zpsbr4nycb0.jpg
[00:25:20] <zeeshan> thats the new drill press
[00:25:21] <zeeshan> :D
[00:25:26] <zeeshan> the other one was the old one
[00:25:30] <PetefromTn_Andro> We probably need to also figure out how Hal sees the proxy sensor signal IE does it have a narrow field or do we trigger it on the upslope or downslope and in which direction of rotation or am I making it far too complicated ...
[00:25:45] <zeeshan> the reason the table was so low on the old one was cause i was drilling holes in a large enclosure
[00:25:46] <zeeshan> lol
[00:25:56] <XXCoder> this one any good? https://www.inventables.com/technologies/desktop-cnc-mill-kit-shapeoko-2
[00:26:45] <zeeshan> my friend finally helped me put my air dryer http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/A5966CDC-9305-4496-B63E-8B3550D7142A_zpszjf8nv9q.jpg
[00:26:47] <zeeshan> on the shelf
[00:26:49] <zeeshan> thing is like 200lb
[00:27:05] <zeeshan> i need to gain some weight
[00:27:12] <zeeshan> so i can lift this stuff on my own!
[00:28:20] <r2e4_1\> oPetefromTn_Andro: I am using prox sensors for my tool changer, when I went to go look at themtrigger as turret was rotating and I couldnt see it change on screen. But it was changing when I looked at them in hal scope
[00:28:28] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_Andro: Rising edge.
[00:29:33] <PetefromTn_Andro> Okay so your Hal inputs really could care less just saw the input apparently.
[00:29:49] <zeeshan> why have you been working on your tool changer for years
[00:29:49] <zeeshan> !
[00:29:50] <zeeshan> :P
[00:30:17] <PetefromTn_Andro> Connor man I am tired as hell gonna hit the sack can we chat about this tomorrow man?
[00:30:24] <Connor_iPad> Yup.
[00:30:28] <Connor_iPad> That's cool
[00:31:01] <PetefromTn_Andro> Great nite all...
[01:09:56] <sabotender> moo
[01:10:12] <XXCoder> Milk
[01:10:23] <sabotender> yay
[01:13:03] <XXCoder> lol https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6359350016/hC453EB4F/
[02:57:52] <Deejay> moin
[03:07:46] <Jymmm> ug
[03:14:45] <Deejay> hi Jymmm
[03:14:54] <Jymmm> howdy
[03:55:00] <archivist> rules for sneaking more machines into the shop http://users.xplornet.com/~jackson5/shed/rules.html
[04:05:56] <fedbunt> hi
[04:09:34] <kengu> archivist: (:
[04:11:35] <archivist> I am single and dont need to follow those rules :)
[04:18:45] <fedbunt> how I do linuxcnc x0 y0?
[04:19:31] <fedbunt> mach3 -> click zero x ,zero y
[04:21:18] <archivist> home the machine then touch off
[04:29:17] <fedbunt> ok thanks
[04:29:35] <fedbunt> and how do home limits ?
[05:00:30] <azcnc> bonjour /hey
[05:01:30] <azcnc> i have a brobleme with my cnc machine
[05:01:42] <azcnc> some one can help?
[05:02:22] <azcnc> camtech master z7
[05:04:31] <azcnc> i use windows systeme, but i want to change it to linuxcnc
[05:14:54] <archivist> azcnc, we dont know what your problems are till you ask better questions
[05:15:39] <azcnc> i have camtech router z7
[05:16:05] <archivist> you already said that
[05:16:19] <azcnc> i want to use soft to control it from ubuntu
[05:17:17] <azcnc> i use inkscape fordxf files
[05:17:31] <azcnc> i m looking for controller
[05:17:41] <azcnc> or simulator
[05:18:16] <Einar> azcnc: Start here --> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[05:18:54] <Einar> You can then try it out without installing to your hard disk.
[05:21:13] <azcnc> i install it in coputer
[05:21:20] <azcnc> computer
[05:22:29] <miss0r1> I am wondering - is it possible to add a 'wait' function similar to the 'sleep' function in bash scripts? When I use M3 to spin my spindle, I want the cnc to wait 3 seconds for it to reach max speed before starting to cut. Can this be done?
[05:23:01] <archivist> there is a delay gcode
[05:23:21] <archivist> you can also wait for a pin spindle at speed
[05:24:54] <azcnc> this work any machine?
[05:24:59] <miss0r1> indeed - I don't have such a pin, I will have to use the 'delay'
[05:25:37] <archivist> azcnc, we cannot know all machines, but highly likely
[06:05:11] <jthornton> miss0r1, G4
[06:48:35] <KreAture> oooooh! My cnc rails are marked as shipped today!
[06:48:49] <KreAture> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301115860502
[06:48:57] <KreAture> I got em to put together this kit for me
[06:49:16] <KreAture> It has two of the longest screws instead of just one
[06:49:33] <KreAture> and it contains all the nut housings you need too
[06:49:45] <KreAture> normally nut housings are not included in the sets
[06:52:51] <Loetmichel> KreAture: that looks NICE
[06:52:56] <Loetmichel> ...but a bit overpriced
[06:53:37] <KreAture> not when I compared it against the other kits containing the blocks and nuts
[06:53:50] <KreAture> nor when I compared it with other sellers
[06:54:38] <KreAture> It does contain 2x1150mm, 1x750 and 1x350mm 1605 ballscrews as well as 4 ballnuts
[06:55:16] <KreAture> 2x1100mm, 2x700mm and 2x300mm SBR20's
[06:55:24] <KreAture> 4x nut housings
[06:55:45] <KreAture> 4x couplers for nema23 motors
[06:56:05] <KreAture> also full set of bearing blocks for the sbr20's
[06:56:10] <Loetmichel> i'ver read the ebay article
[06:56:19] <Loetmichel> right, everything in 20mm
[06:56:20] <KreAture> I made sure they included everything
[06:56:36] <Loetmichel> i would prefert 16mm for x and z
[06:56:42] <Loetmichel> but thats just for cost
[06:56:51] <KreAture> yeh I am sure a cheaper kit could be assembled
[06:56:55] <KreAture> I just wanted beefy
[06:56:57] <KreAture> hehe
[06:57:14] <KreAture> remember my machine design Loetmichel
[06:57:32] <KreAture> I am trying to design it so all SBR sets are working in compression with preloading
[06:57:44] <Loetmichel> the one out of extruded 8040?
[06:57:52] <KreAture> x rails point outwards from bed supported by bed between em
[06:57:55] <KreAture> yeh
[06:58:01] <KreAture> except it's 6030
[06:58:10] <Loetmichel> ah
[06:58:15] <KreAture> because that aligns with the predrilled holes in the sbr20 supports
[06:58:23] <Loetmichel> nice idea
[06:58:39] <Loetmichel> o dont like the extruded stiff because they arent straight
[06:58:43] <KreAture> It will give a bit of adjustment room on the rails too so I can get it all lined up
[06:58:52] <Loetmichel> i
[06:58:57] <Loetmichel> stuff
[06:59:13] <KreAture> I have a local supplier and the ones they deliver are manufactured on 6 meter lengths and are guaranteed straight
[06:59:14] <Loetmichel> most are slightly bent
[06:59:36] <KreAture> he told me they are bent duyring mfg due to the extrusion process and temperature differences in the die
[06:59:48] <Loetmichel> you have seen the big lilalinux machine i helped building?
[06:59:50] <KreAture> and that they go through a extra machine that makes sure they are straight
[06:59:55] <KreAture> yep!
[06:59:57] <KreAture> love it
[07:00:19] <Loetmichel> that has also 20mm rails
[07:00:28] <archivist> best is machined flat after too
[07:00:29] <KreAture> The company delivering my alu is called Rollco
[07:00:33] <Loetmichel> but has more than 4 times the area
[07:00:43] <KreAture> The rails they deliver are made in germany
[07:01:13] <Loetmichel> as a german i might say: that just means that they are more expensice, not necessarily more straight ;-)
[07:01:17] <KreAture> They precision cut to my order btw
[07:01:24] <archivist> pictures or it didnt happen :)
[07:01:36] <KreAture> :p
[07:01:48] <KreAture> they guarantee a very straight cut and cut length to 0.1mm
[07:02:08] <KreAture> I'd like better length accuracy though, but that's not gonna happen
[07:02:33] <KreAture> I've worked with optics at work so I know precision, but size matters
[07:03:12] <KreAture> This machine may get a socket set for mirrors and it's own room, and a lser
[07:03:13] <KreAture> hehe
[07:03:31] <KreAture> laser
[07:04:32] <archivist> optical testing can be fun/ a bore
[07:04:34] <KreAture> silly heavy machine for a laser though
[07:05:46] <Loetmichel> archivist:me?
[07:06:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205 <- only a small machine... 2400*1200*300mm travel ;-)
[07:06:33] <archivist> no
[07:06:59] <Loetmichel> too late ;-)
[07:09:43] <archivist> if KreAture has access to the optical tools he get his machine really square and flat
[07:10:23] <Loetmichel> archivist: i dont think that matters when you start building with extruded aluminium beams
[07:10:39] <Loetmichel> they are not meant to STAY straight anyways
[07:10:51] <Loetmichel> not with the precision we want to have ;)
[07:11:18] <archivist> depends if there is enough supporting metal
[07:11:50] <Loetmichel> if i wanted to make a sturdy and PRECISE gantry i would use steel tubes , weld them together, glow them a few days, and then mill/grind them over
[07:12:18] <Loetmichel> the important part is the "glow"
[07:12:23] <Loetmichel> to get the tension out
[07:12:45] <Loetmichel> extruded aluminium parts tend to warp BADLY when machined
[07:12:46] <archivist> anneal /normalise is the proper word
[07:13:17] <Loetmichel> isnt anneal for hardening?
[07:13:23] <archivist> no
[07:13:24] <Loetmichel> not for the opposite?
[07:13:36] <archivist> anneal removes stresses
[07:13:39] <Loetmichel> ah
[07:13:41] <Loetmichel> i see
[07:13:43] <Loetmichel> thx
[07:14:28] <archivist> google "annealing furnace" where you bring and object up to temp, hold, slowly cool
[07:14:38] <Loetmichel> i thought ammeal was the heating after shock cooling for adjusting the hardness
[07:14:55] <Loetmichel> anneal
[07:14:55] <archivist> that is tempering
[07:15:07] <archivist> harden and temper
[07:15:18] <Loetmichel> hm, seem i am still learning english ;-)
[07:15:28] <Loetmichel> s
[07:16:02] <archivist> most germans have very good english (better than me)
[07:17:05] <KreAture> 8020's calculator sais you are wrong Loetmichel
[07:17:34] <KreAture> also, mech guys at work said welding steel for a precise gantry doesn't work
[07:18:06] <KreAture> You can weld it, but you have to precision machine the faces after wards where you want to mount equipment if you want the equipment to be where you planned
[07:18:19] <KreAture> it expands and contracts as you thermal shock it during welding
[07:18:29] <KreAture> later steel also expands a lot with heat
[07:20:14] <KreAture> 10 degrees change in room would cause a 2 meter long gantry to increase in length by 0.32mm
[07:20:18] <jthornton> after welding you need to normalize the structure to release the stress from welding
[07:20:26] <KreAture> that too
[07:20:37] <KreAture> steel still expands
[07:20:57] <KreAture> alu too
[07:21:08] <KreAture> alu is worse though
[07:21:48] <archivist> cast iron in the old days would be placed outside in a yard to normalise for a year or two
[07:29:52] <Loetmichel> KreAture: sure, you have to mill the surfaces that the rails are mounted to
[07:30:31] <Loetmichel> but an annealed steel frame wouldn bend like extruded aluminium does with every drilled hole
[07:32:20] <Loetmichel> archivist: right. best machine precision is when you get an 50 year old cast oron base from another machine and modify it to fit your needs
[07:35:44] <archivist> as a kid I went to where the old man worked and the castings were all around the yard
[07:38:42] <Einar> Is it true they pissed on the castings to improve them, or was that just an excuse?
[07:42:15] <archivist> a google tells me the term was season http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/seasoning-cast-iron-87355/
[08:15:04] <KreAture> what drilled holes ?
[08:15:13] <KreAture> Loetmichel I will be drilling no holes
[08:28:50] * archivist wonders how a scratch build can be done without drilling holes
[08:45:17] <CaptHindsight> KreAture: over what temp change will you be operating the machine?
[08:45:32] <KreAture> 5c
[08:45:36] <KreAture> I hope
[08:46:23] <CaptHindsight> what tolerance are you expecting to hold (not cutting)?
[08:49:53] <KreAture> no idea
[08:50:24] <KreAture> asI mentiond before though, if I can get holes drilled at 0.1mm accurate locations with about same toleranbce it would be very nice
[08:51:06] <CaptHindsight> are the holes for pins?
[08:54:49] <CaptHindsight> unless you have a slight interference fit the bolts will have some play anyway
[08:55:05] <KreAture> CaptHindsight no holes are for bolting stuff
[08:57:20] <CaptHindsight> you're using ballscrews anyway
[08:57:35] <KreAture> yes
[08:57:57] <KreAture> heck of a lot better than using threaded rods
[08:58:00] <KreAture> lol
[08:58:04] <CaptHindsight> what most get wrong is using too light an extrusion or counting on them as a linear bearing
[08:58:19] <KreAture> yeh, sbr20 all the way
[08:58:28] <KreAture> extrusions are just to hold the stuff in place
[08:58:35] <CaptHindsight> and expecting few micron precision
[08:58:54] <KreAture> my current plan looks like this: http://kreature.org/projects/cnc/cnc2_12.png
[08:59:13] <KreAture> it will be boxed here and there but not drawn for ease of viewing
[08:59:20] <archivist> the rail makers expect your extrusion to hold their rails straight
[08:59:35] <KreAture> Been discussing the use of the profiles oni the sides but cut sheets are just too flexible in the y direction
[09:00:26] <KreAture> I have access to a laser micrometer I will be using in the end to level the bed
[09:00:37] <CaptHindsight> the rails for the Y-axis are positioned in a weak way
[09:00:43] <KreAture> it will allow me to read height data from entire bed vs a projected laser-beam
[09:00:53] <KreAture> duh
[09:00:57] <KreAture> I know CaptHindsight
[09:01:03] <KreAture> that is why it is considered a preliminary
[09:01:12] <KreAture> It was a discussion of tradeoffs
[09:01:20] <KreAture> overhang vs stiffness in mount
[09:01:45] <KreAture> I am playing with configurations that deliver the shortest overhang
[09:02:01] <KreAture> and you mean the z
[09:02:16] <KreAture> the y is fine
[09:02:42] <KreAture> u will have a extra beam between the two it's mounted to allowing compressive force from the z assy to preload it
[09:02:46] <KreAture> y
[09:03:07] <KreAture> can't make everything visible on such a drawing, then it obscures details
[09:03:45] <KreAture> I am still playing with different ways to do the z without loosing travel in y
[09:04:10] <KreAture> z is very short vs the x and y though
[09:04:17] <KreAture> so can take some unsupported spans
[09:04:48] <KreAture> The latest idea is to only support the z rails on top and bottom but making em fase outwards to left and right
[09:05:27] <KreAture> doing so would allow the z carriage to compress em
[09:05:38] <KreAture> but, the issue then becomes how wide does the z become
[09:05:38] <KreAture> lol
[09:06:08] <KreAture> I know ppl like the square stuff for the z as it is more compact
[09:06:11] <KreAture> I can see why
[09:06:43] <KreAture> all designs have tradeoffs
[09:06:55] <KreAture> I'm locked into using sbr20 all the way now
[09:07:07] <KreAture> trying to make the best of it
[09:08:19] <CaptHindsight> I was just wondering, let us know how it went
[09:08:25] <KreAture> hehe
[09:08:43] <KreAture> any other configurations I haven't tried though ?
[09:08:53] <KreAture> I mean, rails can be like on my pic
[09:09:01] <KreAture> but then again, the rails can be what moves right ?
[09:09:14] <KreAture> bearing blocks stay on the y
[09:09:42] <zeeshan> anyone know where to buy cheap leveling feet from?
[09:11:58] <jdh> mcmaster
[09:12:09] <jdh> have you finished your lathe?
[09:13:49] <zeeshan> no access to mcmaster here
[09:13:56] <zeeshan> unless i buy through my unviersity
[09:13:58] <zeeshan> which is a pain in the butt
[09:14:10] <zeeshan> jdh no: i have been buying tools and building steam engine at school
[09:14:18] <zeeshan> for the last month and a half
[09:14:24] <zeeshan> won't get more time to work on it till april 8th
[09:14:24] <zeeshan> ;p
[09:14:28] <KreAture> CaptHindsight if one used two screws and no rails, one could have the tool be where the screw has to be now
[09:14:31] <KreAture> reduces overhang
[09:14:39] <zeeshan> how about you?
[09:14:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section7/index.html
[09:15:03] <KreAture> oooh nice feet
[09:15:33] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: look expensive
[09:15:33] <zeeshan> ;p
[09:15:45] <zeeshan> i need like 20
[09:15:46] <zeeshan> =D
[09:15:50] <KreAture> oh right you said cheap
[09:15:53] <KreAture> ebay.com
[09:15:55] <jdh> make them
[09:16:06] <zeeshan> too much work to make
[09:16:12] <zeeshan> :P
[09:16:19] <KreAture> hey jd, any brilliant ideas for my z assy ?
[09:16:36] <zeeshan> jdh: actually not a bad idea.
[09:16:40] <jdh> sure.
[09:16:43] <zeeshan> when the lathe runs
[09:16:44] <zeeshan> i could make em
[09:16:45] <jdh> just none that areuseful
[09:16:48] <KreAture> hehe
[09:18:01] <zeeshan> jdh done your cnc? :P
[09:18:06] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: how heavy is this lathe? 5000lb mounts are <$10
[09:18:28] <zeeshan> lathe is like 1800lb
[09:18:28] <zeeshan> or 1500lb
[09:18:30] <zeeshan> gr
[09:18:43] <zeeshan> lathe is like 1500lb
[09:18:47] <zeeshan> mill is like 2600lb
[09:19:00] <zeeshan> drill press is 400lb
[09:19:05] <zeeshan> bead roller is 200lb
[09:19:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section7/lpst/index.html
[09:19:17] <zeeshan> lathe needs 8 feet, mill needs 4 feet
[09:19:25] <zeeshan> drioll press and bead roller need 4 feet each
[09:19:37] <CaptHindsight> few $ ea
[09:19:57] <zeeshan> oh
[09:20:03] <jdh> I have drawn up a motor mount for my X. I'll cut it tomorrow and see how well it goes.
[09:20:44] <jdh> ballscrew/nut will be on the headstock side of the crossslide
[09:20:51] <zeeshan> you got lazy
[09:20:52] <zeeshan> !
[09:21:07] <jdh> got tired of waiting for more perfect inspiration
[09:21:25] <zeeshan> its just easier i guess
[09:21:57] <jdh> only other option is on the other side. Not really any better
[09:29:23] <KreAture> hehe
[09:32:02] <zeeshan> jdh
[09:32:10] <zeeshan> can you show me pics of x mounted ball screws
[09:32:14] <zeeshan> outside the cross slide
[09:32:24] <jdh> not until I mount it
[09:32:29] <zeeshan> isn't there shit online
[09:32:32] <zeeshan> what did you search for
[09:57:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toolfetch.com/construction/saw-blades/metal-saw-blades/evolution-14bladest-14-x-66t-x-1-for-cutting-steel-max-rpm-1500.html anyone ever try the Evolution blades for cutting steel?
[10:17:15] <XXCoder> archivist: interesting link on cast iron
[10:18:48] <archivist> :)
[10:21:31] <XXCoder> I guess I see why people like em. its bit excess for what I want though lol
[10:25:02] <skroon> hi all
[10:25:49] <skroon> I just started to use cambam, and I would like to do 3D milling, i'm wondering though how to flip the model, and make sure it has the correct alignment
[10:26:03] <skroon> anyone in here using cambam for 3d milling?
[10:27:21] <XXCoder> sorry, still pre-cnc myself
[10:27:26] <XXCoder> archivist: lol "Large marine turbine and gear castings were suspended from above, apprentices spent many hours banging on them with lengths of 4 x 4. Quite tuneful sometimes, when they'd get a good rhythm going ! "
[10:36:06] <CaptHindsight> I was at an 89 year old machinists place yesterday, he was telling me about the magic tree stump and kids in the neighborhood that he used for straightening tubes he would machine into 20K rpm turbine shafts
[10:38:47] <archivist> straightening is a work of art
[10:39:18] <archivist> sometimes win, sometimes snap
[10:41:15] <archivist> I got it wrong a week or so ago on a watchmakers lathe cross slide handle, it broke, and the break shows it was wrought iron
[10:41:25] <archivist> should have annealed
[10:41:32] <ReadError> he machined kids into turbine shafts?
[10:41:52] <CaptHindsight> "back in those days we never said no, we'd say yes and then figure out a way to do it"
[10:42:57] <CaptHindsight> ReadError: kids could spin much faster back in those days
[10:43:51] <archivist> I went to see a straightening press in Sheffield, not long before the factory was pulled down, (before I had a digital camera so no pics from me)
[10:44:53] <archivist> 12000 ton iirc
[10:50:15] <CaptHindsight> when did radial arm saws become so dangerous? I watched a few youtubes on them and they make it sound like they are basically blade launchers labeled as saws
[10:50:37] <XXCoder> trending shitty builds?
[10:50:39] <XXCoder> dunno
[10:51:22] <archivist> found the pump for that press http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1670291
[10:51:47] <CaptHindsight> nice
[10:51:52] <archivist> and the press http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1668885
[10:52:26] <archivist> minus a cylinder so down to 8000 ton at the time we went to see it
[10:53:04] <CaptHindsight> 112 years old now "This works was doing defence work but nobody batted an eyelid when we asked for permission to photograph."
[10:53:08] <XXCoder> arch I remember touring Navair base machine shop once - they showed machine that has been running since 1910s and said it was utterly realiable. and they showed much more modern machine in its own room "because its sensive to envorment"
[10:53:09] <XXCoder> lol
[10:55:26] <CaptHindsight> more profit, less machine
[10:55:30] <archivist> there was a group of us on that visit, we also went to a forge to see steam hammers in action
[10:59:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.oobject.com/category/10-massive-steam-hammers/ like these?
[11:00:14] <CaptHindsight> in 30-40 years I don't know who is going to design and build anything
[11:00:54] <archivist> this place http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1689068
[11:01:54] <archivist> heh I have pics of some of those 10,
[11:02:53] <archivist> sun was wrong for me http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=8208&subject=24995
[11:06:23] <CaptHindsight> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3147/2871374209_7e4ff265d1.jpg they just closed but they were right in the middle of the city, you could stand on the sidewalk and watch this through the door
[11:08:36] <CaptHindsight> they had a big hammer as well
[11:08:55] <archivist> some people are making stuff the old way, a mainline steam loco has been made new over here
[11:09:38] <archivist> the wheels were cast in the local town, but that foundry has gone now
[11:09:57] <CaptHindsight> they had there mobile cranes for moving forgings down the street shared by city traffic...
[11:10:39] <CaptHindsight> some nights you would pass the slow moving crane with a glowing forging underneath and feel the radiant heat from several feet away
[11:11:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mmsonline.com/cdn/cms/IMG_0588.jpg this would be going down the street
[11:12:15] <XXCoder> interesting
[11:15:49] <XXCoder> big hammer allright.
[11:17:26] <CaptHindsight> huh, they got closed for safety violations
[11:22:06] <XXCoder> wonder what violations
[11:22:37] <CaptHindsight> archivist: not much old way going on here except for craft, jewelry etc
[11:23:25] <CaptHindsight> https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=22779
[11:23:36] <archivist> volunteer museums also do things the old way
[11:23:49] <CaptHindsight> and the heir http://www.suntimes.com/news/watchdogs/23434764-452/judge-drops-weapons-charges-against-steel-heir-james-b-finkl.html
[11:24:19] <CaptHindsight> archivist: there is similar train museum near here
[11:24:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.irm.org/
[11:24:52] <CaptHindsight> but you have several there
[11:25:18] <archivist> several/hundreds
[11:25:47] <archivist> been to IRM :)
[11:26:25] <archivist> about 1984/5
[11:31:33] <CaptHindsight> all the commuter trains here feel like museum pieces now
[11:32:16] <CaptHindsight> when I return from Asia I always feel like I've come back from the future
[11:34:57] <archivist> when I went on the irm streetcar they said it was the fastest in the world.....I thought otherwise
[11:35:42] <XXCoder> was it underground? might be fastest underground car in world ;)
[11:42:51] <humble_sea_bass> don't worry guys, in 30-40 years we won't have to know how to build anything
[11:42:54] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/pictures/America_85/page_0000.jpg
[11:43:20] <humble_sea_bass> we can print knowledge
[11:43:29] <humble_sea_bass> or just go on instructibles
[11:44:35] <XXCoder> not really. you can read your height tall stack of books on how to ride a bicycle and still fail few times before learning
[11:44:48] <XXCoder> knowledge and experence is not same
[11:45:48] <XXCoder> knowledge gives you experence faster by avoiding common mistakes but its not stand in replacement
[11:47:47] <Tom_itx> experience gives knowledge understanding
[11:47:50] <CaptHindsight> or communicating sarcasm over IRC :)
[12:07:46] <archivist> CaptHindsight, http://thenextweb.com/dd/2011/12/12/finally-sarcasm-has-a-voice-in-print-with-its-own-font/
[12:12:33] <zeeshan> anyone have a nice PDF
[12:12:38] <zeeshan> that covers all different types of inserts?
[12:12:48] <zeeshan> and diemsnions
[12:12:49] <zeeshan> ;p
[12:13:12] <archivist> pdf and nice would be an oxymoron
[12:13:56] <archivist> and go download the sandvik coromant tooling catalogues
[12:15:43] <skroon> anyone in here using cambam at all?
[12:16:10] <archivist> one or two
[12:16:58] <XXCoder> played with cambam but not enough experence to answer any questionm
[12:19:21] <archivist> met the cambam coder at a model engineering show, seems a nice bloke
[12:21:18] <skroon> archivist: cool, he's from the UK right?
[12:22:03] <archivist> yes
[12:22:21] <skroon> i'm trying to make a double sided part
[12:22:57] <skroon> now, it's the basic CNC knowledge i'm missing to learn about how to align things properly. I know I would be able to use dowel pins etc, to center things perfectly
[12:23:04] <skroon> just curious how to combine that with cambam
[12:23:09] <archivist> but I dont have it, nor used it
[12:23:34] <skroon> what do you use for CAM?
[12:23:45] <archivist> inside rear of skull
[12:23:45] <Tom_itx> skroon, i sometimes machine from a material block as part of the model
[12:24:17] <skroon> archivist: meaning, you write gcode your self?
[12:24:22] <archivist> yes
[12:24:29] <skroon> Tom_itx: ah right, like a square box or something?
[12:24:41] <Tom_itx> then you at least have a consistent reference
[12:25:03] <Tom_itx> you're gonna start off with a block anyway
[12:25:20] <skroon> Tom_itx: right, this is where I know in theory that it works that way, just a bit puzzled how to apply it in the real world :-)
[12:25:43] <skroon> so that additional material block, you make this in your CAM software, or already during CAD ?
[12:26:16] <Tom_itx> mine is combined so i put it in the cad on a material layer
[12:26:30] <skroon> ok
[12:26:38] <Tom_itx> mine also has a 'show cut' feature so defining the material helps in that regard too
[12:26:55] <skroon> what tools do you use?
[12:27:00] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[12:31:10] <Tom_itx> oh and sometimes a screwdriver and wrench or pliers
[12:31:54] <skroon> this whole fixing and clamping parts, I have to learn more :-)
[12:34:01] <archivist> there is very little (cheap) cam available for round parts made on a rotary like I mostly make hence not using cam
[12:38:32] <Tom_itx> that's true
[12:39:03] <XXCoder> is there any good free cam software for making toolpaths?
[12:39:15] <skroon> what exactly do you mean with "on a rotary" ? that's A axis?
[12:39:23] <Tom_itx> pick one: good free
[12:39:31] <XXCoder> hmm
[12:39:40] <XXCoder> what about "reasonable working"?
[12:40:34] <Tom_itx> some seem to like cambam ok
[12:40:39] <Tom_itx> i didn't care much for it
[12:40:49] <XXCoder> yeah been playing with it. its ok. whats you use?
[12:40:57] <Tom_itx> ^^
[12:41:04] <Tom_itx> i mentioned that
[12:41:16] <XXCoder> smartcam?
[12:41:19] <skroon> I didnt' know much cam software, but cambam was reasonably priced, how much is smartcam?
[12:41:22] <Tom_itx> yes
[12:41:23] <XXCoder> I googled that and got webcams
[12:41:33] <XXCoder> found it
[12:41:38] <CaptHindsight> http://sites.fastspring.com/hexray/product/cambam
[12:41:52] <CaptHindsight> CamBam plus license $149.00
[12:42:00] <skroon> CaptHindsight: you use cambam?
[12:42:09] <zeeshan> fak paying money for software
[12:42:10] <CaptHindsight> never tried it
[12:42:12] <zeeshan> unless you're a business ;p
[12:42:22] <Tom_itx> i was
[12:42:29] <Tom_itx> now i have it for good
[12:42:45] <skroon> zeeshan: so you don't think it's reasonable to pay a programmer for his work, and also speeds up your own work process?
[12:42:50] <XXCoder> smartcam sirte dont show prices
[12:42:55] <XXCoder> I HATE sites that dont
[12:43:05] <skroon> XXCoder: yeah mee too :-) it's like "hiding the truth"
[12:43:37] <XXCoder> in fact, site seem to assume I already has software installed
[12:43:40] <Tom_itx> XXCoder i paid about 6-8k over 15yrs ago
[12:44:03] <skroon> Tom_itx: i'm assuming you have old version then, or the updates are free?
[12:44:15] <Tom_itx> updates are not free and mine is old
[12:44:16] <CaptHindsight> did pycam ever go beyond 3 axis?
[12:44:35] <Tom_itx> i've got about 3 versions of it
[12:44:45] <Tom_itx> one is actually dos based
[12:44:59] <syyl_ws> im trying cambam since a few months
[12:45:03] <syyl_ws> and i like it very much
[12:45:13] <skroon> syyl_ws: I bought it week ago :)
[12:45:14] <XXCoder> fuck smartcam. it may be kickass but I wont go though hassle
[12:45:26] <skroon> syyl_ws: did you do two sided parts already?
[12:45:33] <syyl_ws> not with cambam
[12:45:40] <syyl_ws> i use it most for 2d parts
[12:45:43] <syyl_ws> and some 3d profiling
[12:46:00] <skroon> syyl_ws: ok :-) I would like to do 3d parts, and have it double sided, manual of cambam isn't really helping out too much
[12:46:01] <syyl_ws> for real 3d machining i have access to creo/Nc
[12:46:06] <skroon> excted for the obvious stuff
[12:46:16] <syyl_ws> because thats what i use at work :D
[12:46:18] <zeeshan> skroon: nah
[12:46:33] <zeeshan> work already pays cam software enough
[12:46:34] <zeeshan> :)
[12:46:35] <skroon> zeeshan: your probably not a programmer your self then :-)
[12:46:53] <skroon> zeeshan: ahhh home use :-)
[12:46:54] <zeeshan> for personal use, its unreasonable to pay 5k for a good cam/cad package
[12:47:05] <zeeshan> for work work, we pay like 500,000 for a years license
[12:47:16] <zeeshan> so i justify it like that :)
[12:47:23] <XXCoder> yeah its 2x cost of very good personal cnc, let alone cheap cnc!
[12:47:25] <skroon> zeeshan: yeah indeed I agree, but i guess it's hard to make software see that distinction clearly
[12:47:51] <syyl_ws> i asked a guy from ptc (those who make creo) if there is a cheaper version for private use
[12:48:05] <syyl_ws> he replied: "look in the internet, you will find what you want.." and smiled ;)
[12:48:17] <zeeshan> honestly im using student copies for nx, inventor, solidworks
[12:48:24] <zeeshan> and i mainly use nx for cam
[12:48:30] <skroon> syyl_ws: nice :-)
[12:48:31] <zeeshan> its just stupid easy to do setup stuff i nit
[12:48:39] <zeeshan> and there is a crap load of support/tutorials
[12:49:09] <skroon> syyl_ws: so you you mentioned you didn't do two sided 3d with cambam, that suggest you did it with other cam software?
[12:49:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.nccs.com/Products.html
[12:49:15] <Tom_itx> good for multi axis
[12:49:26] <syyl_ws> dayli routine for me, skroon
[12:49:40] <syyl_ws> i do prototyping in plastic for a living
[12:50:04] <syyl_ws> most parts are two or more side setups
[12:50:13] <skroon> syyl_ws: how do you align stuff? you have 4th axis?
[12:50:20] <syyl_ws> nope, all 3 axis
[12:50:24] <Tom_itx> fixtures
[12:50:31] <Tom_itx> or tooling points
[12:50:39] <syyl_ws> fixtures or i use a feature of the parts to align
[12:50:53] <syyl_ws> or i machine it in a "frame" thats cut away after i finish
[12:51:06] <syyl_ws> my parts are pretty small ;)
[12:51:19] <Tom_itx> sometimes we leave a skin and pop the part out of those frames
[12:51:40] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/2011-11-25_14-07-18_512.jpg
[12:51:49] <zeeshan> those are small
[12:51:50] <zeeshan> :D
[12:51:54] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0176.jpg
[12:51:57] <zeeshan> what kind of plastic is that
[12:52:04] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0178.jpg
[12:52:12] <syyl_ws> pa6 with 30% glasfibre
[12:52:26] <syyl_ws> i beadblast the stuff when finished
[12:52:26] <zeeshan> you could just say nylon
[12:52:27] <zeeshan> you know
[12:52:28] <zeeshan> :)
[12:52:48] <syyl_ws> or perlon
[12:52:51] <skroon> syyl_ws: that's awesome stuff! :-)
[12:52:54] <zeeshan> fancy names
[12:52:57] <zeeshan> fancy material
[12:52:58] <zeeshan> i like
[12:53:06] <syyl_ws> ah
[12:53:10] <syyl_ws> theres the setup
[12:53:11] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0216.jpg
[12:53:14] <skroon> syyl_ws: what are those parts used for ?
[12:53:15] <Tom_itx> syyl-ws what are they for
[12:53:15] <syyl_ws> first side machined
[12:53:36] <syyl_ws> then filled with a resin
[12:53:36] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0217.jpg
[12:53:45] <zeeshan> it'
[12:53:47] <zeeshan> it's like baking
[12:53:48] <zeeshan> :D
[12:53:53] <syyl_ws> second side:
[12:53:53] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0220.jpg
[12:54:05] <syyl_ws> break the part loose:
[12:54:06] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0221.jpg
[12:54:11] <syyl_ws> done ,9
[12:54:30] <syyl_ws> those are parts for circuit breakers, gfi-switches etc..
[12:54:39] <zeeshan> omg
[12:54:41] <zeeshan> i was about to guess that
[12:54:54] <skroon> that resin is used to hold it in place?
[12:55:04] <syyl_ws> "pattex stabilit express"
[12:55:21] <syyl_ws> dont know if thats common elsewhere then germany ;)
[12:55:31] <skroon> nice
[12:55:39] <skroon> what is the stuff normaly used for ? :)
[12:56:04] <syyl_ws> as a glue with gap fillig properties
[12:56:20] <skroon> and you can get it off the plastic with ?
[12:56:33] <syyl_ws> it breaks loose with almost no residue
[12:56:40] <syyl_ws> but holds enough for machining
[12:56:47] <skroon> great, those small parts don't tend to break?
[12:56:53] <syyl_ws> sometimes ;)
[12:57:01] <skroon> it's better indeed then those bridges
[12:57:11] <skroon> how long does it take for that resin to be hard?
[12:57:18] <syyl_ws> 5 to 10 minutes
[12:57:31] <syyl_ws> 5 if you put it on the room heater ;)
[12:57:44] <skroon> nice
[12:57:51] <skroon> so, about that double sided panel...
[12:57:55] <skroon> you flip it in X or Y ?
[12:58:05] <syyl_ws> x
[12:58:17] <syyl_ws> and i take the outside as a reference
[12:58:22] <skroon> I was about to ask :-)
[12:58:23] <syyl_ws> i pick it with the renishaw probe
[12:58:28] <skroon> so how do you know the outside?
[12:58:29] <skroon> ahh :-)
[12:58:58] <XXCoder> alignment cam? http://tech.woot.com/?ref=gh_tc_2 ;)
[12:59:07] <syyl_ws> i prefer the renishaw ;)
[12:59:15] <skroon> what does that renishaw probe cost ? :)
[12:59:15] <syyl_ws> its good to 1...2/1000mm
[12:59:23] <syyl_ws> uhm
[12:59:39] <syyl_ws> 5k eur was the replacement
[12:59:51] <syyl_ws> as my workmake broke it...
[12:59:54] <skroon> damn :)
[12:59:59] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0415.jpg
[13:00:09] <skroon> then you had to cry?
[13:00:11] <skroon> for 2 weeks
[13:00:17] <syyl_ws> not me :D
[13:00:25] <syyl_ws> company is big enough
[13:00:47] <syyl_ws> he had to take the beating :D
[13:00:50] <skroon> so, I don't really have touch probe
[13:00:56] <skroon> so how would I be able todo the same thing?
[13:01:04] <skroon> use really small drill
[13:01:06] <syyl_ws> with an edgefinder?
[13:01:15] <syyl_ws> cheap as hell
[13:01:19] <syyl_ws> and very precise
[13:01:20] <skroon> "edgefinder" that's new to me :)
[13:01:28] <skroon> you have image?
[13:01:48] <syyl_ws> better
[13:01:51] <syyl_ws> a video from tormach
[13:01:51] <syyl_ws> http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCwQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Df0od-cp_9dg&ei=A8wtU9vfNISjtAaQroDIAw&usg=AFQjCNFVeDJhMxlENy0lx1pyyUo5l9OKbg&bvm=bv.62922401,d.Yms
[13:01:58] <syyl_ws> urgs
[13:02:02] <skroon> checking
[13:02:12] <skroon> what is "cheap as hell" :-)
[13:02:17] <skroon> after hearing a 5k instrument
[13:02:21] <syyl_ws> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0od-cp_9dg
[13:02:21] <skroon> that might vary a bit :)
[13:02:22] <syyl_ws> uhm
[13:02:27] <XXCoder> lol
[13:02:33] <syyl_ws> about 10...50 euros
[13:02:57] <skroon> great!
[13:03:06] <skroon> I should figure out where to buy :-)
[13:03:10] <syyl_ws> ebay?
[13:03:34] <skroon> and you need this edge finder, to make sure the flipping of the X axis, is perfect
[13:03:37] <skroon> right ?
[13:03:44] <syyl_ws> mhm
[13:03:47] <syyl_ws> ã bit
[13:03:54] <syyl_ws> its to locate the edge of an part
[13:03:59] <XXCoder> video is captioned! awesome
[13:05:05] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr9Mki_ElXU
[13:05:09] <zeeshan> that loooks pretty violent
[13:05:11] <zeeshan> lol
[13:05:30] <skroon> so when flipping the board, you again have to use the edge finder ?
[13:05:39] <syyl_ws> jap
[13:05:48] <syyl_ws> you could work against a stop
[13:05:54] <syyl_ws> but i prefer it that way
[13:06:18] <skroon> I have to buy those stops and clamps
[13:06:46] <skroon> currenlty i'm using holes in my bottom board (it has M5 threading in them) and use washers to clamp stuff down :)
[13:07:43] <skroon> syyl_ws: what is maximum speed that edge finder can use? my router has minimum of 10k rpm
[13:07:57] <syyl_ws> thats a bit much...
[13:08:07] <syyl_ws> they like something between 500 and 800rpm
[13:08:10] <skroon> damn :-)
[13:08:11] <skroon> I thought so
[13:08:20] <syyl_ws> you can use a dowel pin
[13:08:25] <syyl_ws> with known diameter
[13:08:32] <syyl_ws> aproach the edge
[13:08:42] <syyl_ws> and watch the light between pin and part
[13:08:48] <syyl_ws> if the lights gone
[13:08:51] <syyl_ws> youre there
[13:08:56] <XXCoder> and that person latest video isnt captioned aw
[13:09:03] <syyl_ws> or paint the pin with a sharpie pen
[13:09:10] <syyl_ws> and aproach the part
[13:09:12] <skroon> syyl_ws: dowel pin in the chuck you mean right
[13:09:17] <syyl_ws> jap
[13:09:18] <skroon> collet
[13:09:24] <syyl_ws> if the paint rubs of the pin, youre touching
[13:09:32] <skroon> and "dowel" pin, i just a straight blank?
[13:09:40] <syyl_ws> yes
[13:09:55] <skroon> and I need the spindle turned on?
[13:09:56] <syyl_ws> maybe the shank of a broken endmill
[13:10:05] <syyl_ws> helps, if theres some runout
[13:10:14] <skroon> ah right
[13:10:38] <skroon> and then once it's touching, I know the the edge if half the diamter (the radius) to the right of the current X position?
[13:10:50] <syyl_ws> correct :)
[13:11:01] <skroon> awesome, thanks for the super clear explanation :-)
[13:11:47] <skroon> in cambam video's, I see a lot people using the center of the object as origin
[13:12:00] <syyl_ws> no problem, sir :)
[13:12:11] <skroon> I would think that lower left corner would be easiest, but i'm probably not correct here :)
[13:12:14] <syyl_ws> centering a part is also a very good way
[13:12:21] <syyl_ws> takes a bit more work
[13:12:29] <syyl_ws> but it averages errors out a bit
[13:12:46] <skroon> what do you mean?
[13:13:11] <syyl_ws> using the center of the part
[13:13:44] <skroon> so then I really need to be sure (measure) if everything fits in al 4 directions right?
[13:14:01] <skroon> whereas lower left corner as origin, I just have to make sure in 2 directions there is enough material
[13:14:08] <syyl_ws> yes
[13:14:14] <CaptHindsight> when the USB scopes show up I'll finish the camera based auto alignment
[13:14:16] <syyl_ws> and when you flip it
[13:14:34] <syyl_ws> take the right upper corner as your zero
[13:14:51] <syyl_ws> so its still the same corner as on the first side, just flipped
[13:14:57] <syyl_ws> also helps against errors :D
[13:15:18] <skroon> isn't it lower right corner if you just do X flip?
[13:15:32] <syyl_ws> ah sorry
[13:15:39] <syyl_ws> yes
[13:15:41] <skroon> np :-)
[13:15:49] <syyl_ws> i normaly use upper left and upper right
[13:16:02] <skroon> since everything is still scary to me, i'm try to get it straight in my head :-)
[13:16:03] <syyl_ws> because theres my fixed yaw of the vise
[13:16:23] <skroon> so then you flip both x and y ?
[13:16:47] <syyl_ws> na
[13:16:49] <syyl_ws> just x
[13:17:07] <syyl_ws> i start the first side on the upper left
[13:17:09] <syyl_ws> flip it
[13:17:12] <skroon> so, you have to touch off, both side, the X and the Y sides to get that opper left (or right)
[13:17:19] <syyl_ws> upper right is the new zero
[13:17:21] <skroon> I mean, lower right or uper right
[13:17:46] <syyl_ws> its so hard to explain something by just-text :D
[13:17:56] <syyl_ws> if you would be sitting next to me, it would be so easy :D
[13:17:58] <skroon> syyl_ws: hehehe that's why I appreciate it a lot
[13:18:20] <skroon> well, I live close to Germany, I can bring Dutch candy and stuff :-)
[13:18:50] <skroon> syyl_ws: so, if you use center as origin, then this touching off from the side, is that still valid approach?
[13:19:00] <skroon> or you just then divide again the material block?
[13:19:11] <skroon> (should I be calling that: the stock ? )
[13:19:27] <syyl_ws> to center stock/part, touch of left and right
[13:19:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140322-gang-plans-mass-producing-atm-skimmers-via-3d-printing.html
[13:19:41] <syyl_ws> and divide the measurement from the dro
[13:19:46] <skroon> syyl_ws: ahhh, right! :-)
[13:19:47] <syyl_ws> then you get the exact center
[13:21:01] <skroon> so would that make the flipping (double sided) also easier, when working from the center?
[13:21:51] <syyl_ws> sometimes :D
[13:22:00] <syyl_ws> that depends a bit on the job
[13:22:12] <skroon> hehe, I understand there are so many exceptions ofcourse, depending on job, materials, drawing :-)
[13:22:27] <skroon> i'm looking for the easy way out... but in reality there probably isn't one :)
[13:22:32] <syyl_ws> its always a bit trynerror
[13:23:07] <skroon> right, I noticed, that's why my right hand is always on the E-Stop
[13:23:16] <skroon> even in my sleep, I sometimes press the E-stop out of reflex
[13:24:39] <archivist> make one, adjust gcode and settings make a correct one
[13:25:07] <skroon> now that I was looking at 3D milling, I thought that perhaps a simulator wouldn't be such a bad idea to start with
[13:25:17] <syyl_ws> manual machining: all parts different wrong
[13:25:25] <syyl_ws> cnc maching: all parts wrong the same
[13:25:27] <syyl_ws> ;)
[13:25:37] <skroon> ahahahha
[13:25:50] <syyl_ws> you lough :D
[13:26:01] <syyl_ws> thats sometimes the bitter reality :D
[13:27:25] <archivist> one at a time cnc part of the setup is by hand so they are not all the same http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_08_13_verge/P1010318.JPG
[13:27:58] <archivist> took 7 attempts to get one
[13:28:06] <syyl_ws> wow
[13:28:09] <syyl_ws> thats nice
[13:28:23] <zeeshan> what are those
[13:28:25] <zeeshan> mini hole saws
[13:28:30] <zeeshan> ;][
[13:28:50] <syyl_ws> some kind of gear/ratchet?
[13:29:08] <Tom_itx> fancy clock parts
[13:29:08] <zeeshan> teeth look too sharp
[13:29:27] <zeeshan> shrug ;p
[13:29:31] <archivist> pocket watch verge escape wheel
[13:29:48] <zeeshan> ;D
[13:30:19] <Tom_itx> one thing about making watch parts... you don't waste alot of material
[13:31:03] <syyl_ws> but a lot of nerves i think ;)
[13:31:23] <Tom_itx> and decent eyes
[13:31:31] <Tom_itx> or magnification
[13:31:46] <archivist> that shows the form on the end of a stick http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_08_14_cnc_watch_verge_escape_wheel/IMG_0273.JPG
[13:31:57] <syyl_ws> but it lacks the nice sound when you throw a thrashed part against the next wall :\
[13:32:03] <syyl_ws> that might be disapointing
[13:32:19] <archivist> too small to hear when they fall
[13:33:39] <archivist> as the rotary axis was at an angle and impossible to get in and see, it was try it and see till looked ok
[13:35:25] <skroon> syyl_ws: for that double sided think you just showed, which origin did you use?
[13:35:42] <archivist> the setup is in the last two pics http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=verge
[13:35:54] <syyl_ws> left upper edge
[13:35:58] <syyl_ws> then right upper edge
[13:36:18] <skroon> and then when flipped, you used also the upper ri...
[13:36:20] <skroon> :)
[13:36:36] <skroon> you have a picture of how it was clamped ?
[13:36:44] <skroon> curious to which clamps you used
[13:36:57] <syyl_ws> uh
[13:37:03] <zeeshan> you guys think
[13:37:06] <syyl_ws> i clamp almost everything in a vise
[13:37:11] <zeeshan> an 18" starrett level is a good enough machinist level
[13:37:12] <skroon> I saw a nice one today in a youtube video, I wanted to have it as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd-1BeUN2sc
[13:37:13] <zeeshan> for levelling machines?
[13:37:19] <zeeshan> or should i be looking for something smaller
[13:37:36] <skroon> syyl_ws: ahhh a vise
[13:37:40] <syyl_ws> and the bigger plates get glued down with double sided tape
[13:37:42] <zeeshan> i need to level the mill, lathe, belt sander, welding table, etc
[13:37:43] <archivist> zeeshan, 18" should be pretty damned good
[13:37:56] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDEwMjQ=/z/YGYAAOxyVLNTAmGy/$_20.JPG
[13:38:01] <zeeshan> is this a pretty standard one?
[13:38:16] <zeeshan> looks like the top right screw is for calibrating the level
[13:38:47] <CaptHindsight> we need plugins for when tools break or crash Linuxcnc could play this http://soundfxnow.com/sound-fx/sad-trombone-wah/
[13:39:12] <zeeshan> there is another one for sale
[13:39:13] <zeeshan> thats 12"
[13:39:21] <zeeshan> im not sure if going with too big of a leevel will cause issues
[13:39:24] <archivist> I have a homebrew version that one would have to calibrate by modifying the spacer under the screws
[13:39:25] <skroon> syyl_ws: so when useing a vise, you don't have to worry about going trhough the model i guess? like i'm using a spoil board now
[13:39:34] <zeeshan> archivist: basically what im asking is
[13:39:41] <zeeshan> if i go with a 6" level vs a 18" level
[13:39:47] <zeeshan> whats the con of going too big
[13:40:01] <zeeshan> other than it can't fit on what youre trying to level
[13:40:15] <archivist> you learn how bendy solid stuff is
[13:40:30] <syyl_ws> and how much your floor moves when walking around :\
[13:40:41] <zeeshan> rofl
[13:40:42] <archivist> my levels often detect floor bending
[13:40:47] <syyl_ws> mine too
[13:40:51] <syyl_ws> sold the level ;)
[13:40:52] <zeeshan> concrete bends?
[13:40:52] <zeeshan> ;p
[13:41:01] <syyl_ws> ya
[13:41:06] <archivist> everything bends
[13:41:11] <zeeshan> yea i know that
[13:41:20] <syyl_ws> enough to make you crazy when leveling something
[13:41:21] <zeeshan> but i wouldnt expect it to bend significantly to register on a level
[13:41:29] <Tom_itx> why not?
[13:41:41] <skroon> syyl_ws: when using a vice, you let the material stick out (in z axis) of the vice?
[13:42:04] <Tom_itx> skroon sure
[13:42:09] <syyl_ws> not always
[13:42:18] <syyl_ws> depends again ;)
[13:42:31] <syyl_ws> sometimes its flush with the yaws
[13:42:35] <syyl_ws> sometimes above it
[13:42:40] <skroon> syyl_ws: i'm curious how you make sure that surface is leveled
[13:42:51] <archivist> use the base
[13:42:56] <skroon> I was thinking, if it's flush, you can more easily get it flushed?
[13:42:59] <archivist> a spacer
[13:43:00] <skroon> archivist: base?
[13:43:01] <syyl_ws> the vice is level with the machine
[13:43:04] <zeeshan> interesting concerete has a signifricantly less youngs modulus
[13:43:06] <zeeshan> than steel
[13:43:13] <zeeshan> i though it was the other way around
[13:43:53] <skroon> syyl_ws: I thought the vise only clamped from the sides, and didn't have a bottom
[13:44:01] <zeeshan> so basically you guys are saying the bigger level will be more sensitive
[13:44:04] <archivist> skroon, between the item and the bottom of the jaws
[13:44:05] <zeeshan> to deflections
[13:44:09] <zeeshan> while the smaller one won't be
[13:44:22] <archivist> zeeshan, depends on the bubble
[13:44:22] <zeeshan> cause its working over a larger span
[13:44:26] <skroon> archivist: ah right, so then it stays up in the air ?
[13:44:30] <Tom_itx> skroon, this part is held above the vise: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/P3.jpg
[13:44:43] <syyl_ws> sometimes i but a big parallel under it
[13:44:48] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/B3oAAMXQC-tTAmHB/$_20.JPG
[13:44:50] <syyl_ws> and glue the part to it with doublesided tape
[13:44:51] <zeeshan> thats the bubble on the big one
[13:44:53] <archivist> zeeshan, you can get crappy bubbles on long levels
[13:45:00] <syyl_ws> so it doesnt warp up when clamping
[13:45:17] <archivist> so look for the divisions per unit length
[13:45:21] <skroon> great tricks all :-)
[13:45:37] <syyl_ws> i dont know the right term
[13:45:45] <syyl_ws> "many ways to skin a cat"
[13:45:46] <syyl_ws> ?
[13:45:47] <skroon> i have a cheaper CNC, and not too much room in Z-axis, so I would need a low profile vise I guess
[13:46:31] <syyl_ws> screwless grinding vice
[13:46:47] <zeeshan> ill just watch a video on levels
[13:46:47] <syyl_ws> my prefered choice of vice for every milling machine i ever worked on :D
[13:46:49] <zeeshan> im confused ;)
[13:47:23] <skroon> syyl_ws: screwless... meaning the part that clamps is screweless, or the part to fix it to the table?
[13:47:39] <syyl_ws> thats just what they are called
[13:47:44] <syyl_ws> in fact the have a clamping screw
[13:47:53] <syyl_ws> but its on an down-angle
[13:48:23] <syyl_ws> http://www.projectsinmetal.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vise-exploded-view.jpg
[13:48:36] <syyl_ws> the yaw doesnt tilt up with that design
[13:52:16] <archivist> zeeshan, I have 3 that I mainly use, a 10" an 8" and a clinometer, sometimes use a box level http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=levels+PD
[13:52:37] <XXCoder1> what about doing vise by laters
[13:52:39] <XXCoder1> layers
[13:52:49] <zeeshan> archivist:
[13:52:50] <XXCoder1> er NM lol
[13:52:51] <zeeshan> your site is so slow :{
[13:52:59] <mcfloppy> hello
[13:53:06] <mcfloppy> my cnc is running :)
[13:53:10] <mcfloppy> yeah
[13:53:21] <zeeshan> archivist:
[13:53:24] <zeeshan> you have some really nice stuff
[13:53:27] <zeeshan> that wood box is pretty bad ass
[13:53:37] <mcfloppy> now i try to generate gcode. do someone here use dxf2gcode?
[13:53:58] <zeeshan> 'this case is for storage only. for transit by post, etc. it should be packed in a further box'
[13:53:59] <zeeshan> hahaha
[13:54:01] <zeeshan> so bad ass.
[13:54:14] <zeeshan> proper machinist tool.
[13:57:55] <archivist> come up regular on fleabay here, but some expect high prices
[13:59:09] <XXCoder1> boxception
[13:59:27] <archivist> the little one on fleabay over priced 160697689973
[14:00:02] <zeeshan> archivist: donate me some tools
[14:00:05] <zeeshan> :)
[14:00:22] <archivist> you just got a load!
[14:00:23] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[14:00:25] <zeeshan> haha
[14:00:27] <zeeshan> i can never have enough
[14:00:32] <XXCoder1> hey ich
[14:00:33] <archivist> nor me
[14:00:44] <zeeshan> some people are addicted to alcohol
[14:00:54] <zeeshan> for people like us, we need tools anonymous.
[14:00:57] <archivist> I do have a spare box level :)
[14:01:12] <IchGuckLive> 4tons of steel did find the way today throu the mashinings
[14:01:18] <zeeshan> i'm not sure how a box level is used
[14:01:29] <archivist> the same way
[14:01:29] <zeeshan> oxtool talks about it briefly in his video
[14:01:42] <archivist> but also does vertical
[14:01:45] <zeeshan> ah
[14:01:57] <zeeshan> makes sense, the 90 degree surfaces are machined
[14:01:58] <zeeshan> now i see it
[14:02:39] <archivist> I had to buy a new bubble for the clinometer, £80
[14:02:49] <zeeshan> those vials are expensive
[14:02:55] <zeeshan> apparently its a precision made thing
[14:03:08] <zeeshan> and is made in a way so it's 'bowed out'
[14:03:19] <zeeshan> just by what i call a '???? hair'
[14:03:26] <zeeshan> insert inappropriate word in ????
[14:03:50] <Tom_itx> hair on a gnat's ass
[14:03:57] <zeeshan> rofl
[14:04:15] <zeeshan> okay, todays goal
[14:04:20] <zeeshan> clean up and organize the entire garage
[14:04:38] <Tom_itx> that sounds more like a dream
[14:05:02] <zeeshan> im gonna put up more shelving
[14:05:02] <archivist> not possible in a day
[14:05:13] <zeeshan> okay ill make a reasonable goal
[14:05:20] <zeeshan> clean up all the tools on the floor
[14:05:27] <Tom_itx> not possible without getting side tracked either
[14:05:27] <zeeshan> and organize the drill press area
[14:05:34] <zeeshan> it's true.
[14:05:39] <zeeshan> i want to level my drill press
[14:05:46] <zeeshan> and i only have a shitty as wood working level
[14:05:58] <zeeshan> which might be good enough for a drill press
[14:06:02] <zeeshan> but not good enough for a lathe or mill
[14:06:25] <zeeshan> so then i found a good deal for an 18" level on kijiji
[14:06:31] <zeeshan> guy wants 60$ for a 300$ level
[14:06:46] <Tom_itx> maybe he dropped it
[14:06:54] <zeeshan> doesnmt look dropped
[14:07:00] <zeeshan> just looks old
[14:07:15] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-hand-tools-Starrett-precision-level-W0QQAdIdZ567775325
[14:07:16] <zeeshan> ad
[14:07:47] <zeeshan> there is another one
[14:07:48] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-hand-tools-Starrett-98-6-machinist-level-w-box-W0QQAdIdZ572935226
[14:07:52] <zeeshan> for $60 but its only 6"
[14:09:17] <sabotender> moo
[14:09:23] <sabotender> heyla archivist
[14:10:06] <Tom_itx> i think if i were after a precision level i'd get one a bit longer than 6"
[14:10:14] <zeeshan> yea
[14:10:20] <archivist> zeeshan, appears to have been adapted, got at bodged, fleabay 291107043126
[14:10:47] <archivist> I dont trust one like that
[14:11:28] <archivist> been on that long that no one else trusts it either
[14:13:50] <Tom_itx> what don't you trust about it?
[14:15:05] <archivist> it has had a side sawn off
[14:15:13] <zeeshan> really?
[14:15:27] <Tom_itx> yeah
[14:15:29] <archivist> yes mine is complete
[14:15:40] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=567775325&Keyword=starrett%20level
[14:15:43] <zeeshan> where is the side sawn off
[14:15:44] <zeeshan> !
[14:15:49] <zeeshan> looks original to me!
[14:16:04] <zeeshan> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail?k=98-18
[14:16:06] <zeeshan> original
[14:16:14] <archivist> what it is supposed to look like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_04_15_Levels/IMG_0587.JPG
[14:16:35] <zeeshan> i think we're talking about differnt things
[14:17:33] <archivist> I was talking about fleabay 291107043126
[14:17:36] <zeeshan> oh
[14:18:01] <zeeshan> damn it is sawed off
[14:18:02] <zeeshan> lol
[14:18:37] <zeeshan> http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=8285&subject=25072
[14:18:40] <zeeshan> in this pic
[14:18:44] <zeeshan> what is that on the bottom left
[14:18:53] <archivist> ouch starrett miss out the spec of divisions per unit length
[14:18:53] <zeeshan> bottom left ot the taper roller bearing
[14:19:11] <zeeshan> it says
[14:19:18] <zeeshan> 80-90 seconds or 0.005" per foot
[14:19:38] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_04_15_Levels/IMG_0596.JPG
[14:19:51] <zeeshan> could you explain how to use a level quickly!
[14:20:03] <archivist> a clinometer I dont know much about yet
[14:20:07] <zeeshan> so knowing its 80-90 seconds / 0.005" per foot
[14:20:11] <zeeshan> what is that telling me
[14:20:28] <archivist> slope/angle
[14:20:59] <archivist> 5 thou per foot, a steep slope for a lathe
[14:21:39] <zeeshan> trying to find a better pic
[14:22:21] <archivist> I have one here which is .00025" in 10"
[14:22:32] <zeeshan> http://images.starrett.com/is/image/Starrett/98-12we66934cUSp1?wid=1200&hei=1200&qlt=90,1
[14:22:35] <zeeshan> ignore that
[14:22:43] <zeeshan> nm that is the link
[14:22:54] <zeeshan> so on the left of the vial i see 7 tick marks
[14:22:56] * Tom_itx ignores it anyway
[14:23:00] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: mean
[14:23:06] <zeeshan> so each tick mark is what?
[14:23:21] <archivist> they should say
[14:23:24] <Tom_itx> the gradients should be specified
[14:23:35] <archivist> crap if not mentioned
[14:23:37] <zeeshan> basically how its shown in that pic
[14:23:41] <zeeshan> means its level right? :D
[14:23:47] <Tom_itx> 1 gradient = 1 foot
[14:23:51] <Tom_itx> bad
[14:23:55] <archivist> you can always adjust them
[14:24:16] <Tom_itx> are they specified in degrees or thousandths?
[14:24:20] <zeeshan> both
[14:24:25] <zeeshan> 80-90 seconds or .005" per foot (0.42mm per meter)
[14:24:27] <archivist> better levels have the bubble accuracy engraved too
[14:24:28] <zeeshan> Main level vials have graduations that are approximately 80-90 seconds or .005" per foot (0.42mm per meter)
[14:24:54] <archivist> you can get a lot better :)
[14:25:20] <zeeshan> how so?
[14:26:34] <zeeshan> ill watch a video!
[14:26:39] <zeeshan> easier to be shown
[14:27:17] <zeeshan> ahhh
[14:27:20] <zeeshan> this is relatively easy
[14:27:31] <zeeshan> the bubble needs to lie between the longer tick marks
[14:27:39] <zeeshan> and the 0.005" is over the 18 inches
[14:29:36] <archivist> my small one is .001" in 12" and the big one is .0005" in 10"
[14:29:43] <zeeshan> yea
[14:29:50] <zeeshan> makes more sense to use a .001 over 12"
[14:29:51] <zeeshan> for a lathje.
[14:30:00] <zeeshan> and even a mill
[14:30:10] <zeeshan> so you can check if parts are mounted right as a backup measurement.
[14:30:14] <zeeshan> just by using the level
[14:30:36] <Tom_itx> need a level? http://www.geier-bluhm.com/
[14:31:02] <zeeshan> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/Precision-Measuring-Tools/Precision-Hand-Tools/Machinsts-Levels/Levels/199Z
[14:31:04] <zeeshan> wtf
[14:31:10] <zeeshan> 838$ level
[14:31:14] <zeeshan> too much $
[14:31:14] <zeeshan> lol
[14:31:56] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-other-12-Accuracy-0-0002-10-MASTER-PRECISION-LEVELS-IN-FITTED-BOX-W0QQAdIdZ555307255
[14:32:02] <zeeshan> chinese level accurate to 0.0002"
[14:32:02] <archivist> second hand, and set them up on a surface plate
[14:32:03] <zeeshan> hahaha
[14:32:04] <zeeshan> yea right.
[14:32:53] <Tom_itx> http://store.gaging.com/machinist-level/53-422-068-wyler-adjustable-micrometer-spirit-level-6-quot-150mm-00025-quot-per-12-quot-5-arc-second-02mm-m-sensitivity
[14:33:01] <Tom_itx> that one seems pretty accurate
[14:33:04] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: ROFL
[14:33:33] <zeeshan> archivist: how much does the one you have that goes to 0.001" cost
[14:33:34] <zeeshan> typically
[14:34:28] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Starrett-No-199-15-Master-Precision-Level-/171272085250?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e09c9f02
[14:34:33] <zeeshan> flea bay one
[14:36:18] <Tom_itx> http://store.gaging.com/machinist-level/53-422-061-wyler-level-161-200-113-050-inspection-spirit-level-with-prismatic-base-8-quot-400mm-0005-quot-per-10-quot-10-seconds-05mm-m-sensitivity
[14:36:27] <Tom_itx> that one is only half as accurate
[14:38:36] <archivist> zeeshan, got mine 15-20 years ago army surplus, but 25-100 pounds seem the usual fleabay prices that sell
[14:38:37] <Tom_itx> the moon phase would probably affect the first one
[14:38:48] <zeeshan> Tom_itx:
[14:38:49] <zeeshan> rofl
[14:42:02] <archivist> fleabay 271426976703 hilger and watts
[14:42:23] <Tom_itx> could be worth reading: http://www.vibrodynamics.com/english/bulletin/ml647.pdf
[14:42:40] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: nice find
[14:42:49] <zeeshan> i love technical bulletin
[14:42:54] <zeeshan> engineer's wet dream
[14:43:31] <zeeshan> 0.002" / 3.2 feet
[14:43:32] <zeeshan> hm
[14:44:17] <zeeshan> nm
[14:46:54] <archivist> for setting the mill column vertical the square box type does that too
[14:51:46] <archivist> another use for levels is to home a rotary so parallel to the mill table
[14:52:12] <zeeshan> that stuff i think is easier to do with a dial indicator
[14:52:13] <zeeshan> :P
[14:52:42] <zeeshan> archivist: did you see the drill press i bought
[14:52:47] <archivist> no
[14:52:55] <zeeshan> thats what i've been cleaning up and am mounting a tachometer on
[14:53:24] <zeeshan> it's nothing special but its a lot bigger than my other drill press
[14:54:41] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/oEZcD
[14:54:43] <zeeshan> 360lb vs 133lb
[14:55:09] <zeeshan> now i can mount engine blocks on there and drill out broken studs
[14:55:31] <archivist> why is there still a car in there
[14:55:42] <zeeshan> cause she's a garage queen
[14:55:49] <zeeshan> transmission is out
[14:55:52] <zeeshan> so i can't even move it out
[14:55:52] <zeeshan> lol
[14:56:31] <zeeshan> okay no more irc
[14:56:33] <zeeshan> time to do work
[15:06:39] <rodfrey> Can I access arbitrary pins and signals from a remap python script?
[16:48:28] <NickParker> pcw_home: Hey I doubt you even remember me from december/early Jan, but I finally have time to mess with my 6i25 again.
[16:49:09] <NickParker> My goal right now is just to make it do something with a .bit file I've compiled, to prove I can compile non-broken bit files with the ISE
[16:50:44] <NickParker> Do you have the link to the basic guide Tom_itx compiled from a conversation between you two?
[16:50:51] <NickParker> oh wait Tom_itx is also here. Have you got that link/
[17:00:05] <NickParker> Found it: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
[17:10:57] <asah> hello all. Can anyone help me with the BLDC driver? I can't get Trapezoidal commutation to work.
[17:11:13] <asah> I want to get this motor spinning without feedback first.
[17:12:01] <asah> I can get one phase to lock up, but I can't get the rotor-angle or phase-angle to progress.
[17:17:11] <Tom_itx> isn't feedback part of what makes them work?
[17:18:29] <asah> I should be able to feedforward a trapezoidal, 6 step signal and get the rotor to spin.
[17:18:33] <asah> no?
[17:18:45] <asah> like a dumb RC ESC?
[17:18:57] <Einar> It is possible to make a BLDC run getting feedback from the BEMF. But not very useful in servo drive. It's used in model airplane motors.
[17:19:04] <NickParker> hooray i just booted with a .bit file i compiled
[17:19:15] <NickParker> now to make it actually do what I want..
[17:20:12] <Einar> It must "kick start" without knowing what happens. Then it can analyze the BEMF to see what stat the rotor is in.
[17:20:37] <Einar> But having a servo "kicking" with no control is not useful.
[17:20:57] <asah> right. I am just using this as a test.
[17:21:22] <asah> so I can play without an encoder
[17:22:21] <Einar> Not very useful test. Try to figure out at least the phase feedback first. That will allow it to run open loop. If your drive allows this mode that is.
[17:22:45] <asah> aha!!! got it going.
[17:22:59] <asah> the appropriate param is "frequency"
[17:23:16] <Einar> Good! So it's not dead. ;-)
[17:23:48] <asah> nope.
[17:23:52] <asah> spinning happily
[17:23:56] <Einar> Since we don't know what motor or drive you have we're shooting ducks in the dark.
[17:24:35] <Einar> Hope I did not shoot the sherrif!
[17:27:57] <Deejay> gn8
[17:38:01] <asah> sure. its a mesa 7i39 and a 14 pole motor
[17:42:06] <Swapper_> andypugh: i saw one of your old vids on a X2 with a ac motor on it, what size whas that ?
[17:43:13] <andypugh> 0.5kW, I think
[17:43:29] <andypugh> Might be 1hp. It has to be a 90 frame though.
[17:43:40] <Swapper_> ok
[17:43:49] <andypugh> (And that still needs an adapter plate)
[17:44:09] <Swapper_> ok ok
[17:44:24] <andypugh> If I was doing it again I would have scrapped the head gears and gone for direct belt drive.
[17:45:03] <Swapper_> yea, have done that on mine and its nice
[17:45:25] <andypugh> I didn't want to loose the dual speed, and it went against the grain to throw away good parts, but the plastic gears are too weak, and the metal gears are too noisy. I was hoping that the conversion to oil-bath lubrication would keep them quiet...
[17:45:34] <Swapper_> but running a 750w sevo atm but i need the servo for my other project so looking for a replacement
[17:46:17] <Swapper_> have a 1,5kw ac motor but i guess it will be hard to fit on the x2
[17:50:46] <andypugh> Offer it up, but I think you will find you can't miss the column and get to the drawbar at the same time.
[17:51:19] <Swapper_> will prob be tight
[17:52:28] <Swapper_> saw that you had the "x2" head on a lathe, i got a maximat that have a mount on the back for a add-on spindle. Think ill do a conversion and add the x2 z+ head to the maximat
[18:01:55] <Einar> andypugh: G33 seems to work a charm here! G76 still making modern art pieces.
[18:05:03] <sabotender> moo
[18:05:19] <sabotender> what's going on?
[18:07:00] <Einar> Called it a day and having an Aas stout before going into the horizontal plane.
[18:08:02] <andypugh> Swapper_: Don't. Lathe beds are really bad milling beds. They expect forces to be downwards and to the front, and mills push in many more directions.
[18:08:21] <Einar> So I can shut down the lathe through VNC. Cool!
[18:08:46] <Swapper_> andypugh: ahh good point
[18:08:54] <Swapper_> but its made with that in mind ?
[18:09:02] <Swapper_> since it exist as a addon ?
[18:09:51] <Einar> I unmounted the milling column on my Emco. The leadscrew or rack is not in good control.
[18:10:11] <andypugh> Maybe the Maximat is. My Chinese "thing" wasn't even a well designed lathe, then they stretched it, and jacked up the head and tailstock.
[18:10:12] <Swapper_> ok
[18:10:42] <Einar> No. The Maximat is a very good lathe, but a lousy mill!!
[18:10:50] <Einar> I have one.
[18:11:10] <Swapper_> kk maybe i jump that then and only cnc convertit
[18:12:41] <Einar> Swapper: Do you have a Maximat? Don't convert it. It's too good as it is. You will always want a manual lathe.
[18:12:56] <Swapper_> yea its a maximat mentor
[18:13:06] <Swapper_> but im missing some gears
[18:13:13] <Swapper_> for the threading
[18:13:24] <Swapper_> so a cnc conversion would make it more usfull
[18:14:36] <Swapper_> should be able to build it and still get it to run manual ?
[18:19:43] <Einar> I think you will regret not having a manual lathe. Some things are much quicker to to the old fashioned way.
[18:20:02] <Swapper_> yea but i need to have it manual also
[18:20:15] <Swapper_> cant lose that
[18:22:06] <Einar> There are ways. Like using an MPG. But it's not the same.
[18:22:35] <Swapper_> or keep the cranks?
[18:23:20] <Einar> Possible, but not convenient.
[18:25:45] <andypugh> Einar: I don't miss a manual lathe at all
[18:26:00] <andypugh> But I also never write G-code on my lathe
[18:26:29] <Einar> You need a manual lathe when a sunstorm hits us really hard . ;-) You can have a helper crank the spindle.
[18:26:57] <andypugh> I have macros to turn to diameter, face to length, cut threads, radius, etc. I type in the numbers, press the button, and come back to program the next operation.
[18:26:57] <Swapper_> haha
[18:28:40] <andypugh> Einar: Add this tab to your Lathe UI, I think you will find it useful. http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
[18:29:33] <andypugh> There is a Youtube video where I am hand-cranking the spindle to get it to turn slowly enough to bore a hexagon :-)
[18:30:44] <Einar> Yes. Those macros looks very nice. After I get basic things level, I'll look into it.
[18:30:50] <Swapper_> andypugh: would those macros work in a mill ? if the meterial is in the spindle ?
[18:31:57] <andypugh> Swapper_: Probably. They call G-code which you could alter anyway
[18:32:00] <Bushman> i'm still trying to diagnose errors in my Z axis and it seems the PC part is at fault.
[18:32:25] <Einar> Hand cranking a CNC lathe. OK, that seems like 2 very different ages meet up.
[18:32:29] <Bushman> is it possible (for any arbitrary reason) for the linuxcnc software to lose steps?
[18:33:45] <Einar> Bushman: I think not. But it can cause your drives/motors to loose steps if your latency is not good.
[18:34:32] <Einar> The steppers don't like hiccups.
[18:35:03] <Bushman> i have connected a tiny stepper motor in parellel to my big Z stepper and run stepper config and tested the axis
[18:35:10] <sabotender> so has anyone seen the panther 210?
[18:35:20] <sabotender> I think it is a pretty sweet piece of machinery
[18:35:55] <rodfrey> Hi! I'm writing python scripts for my rack toolchanger. Is there a way to access arbitrary pins? I'm interested in seeing the spindle sensors. I'm using a 5i25 + 7i76.
[18:35:55] <Einar> Bushman: Are you running 2 motors from 1 driver? Not a good idea.
[18:36:29] <Bushman> to verify it's not a velocity issue and acceleration issue i've started from 1mm/s and 20mm/s^2
[18:36:49] <Bushman> Einar: i know but they are not under load right now
[18:36:52] <sabotender> how can one ensure that there is little to no latency?
[18:37:51] <Bushman> anyway... when i press the "Run" button to perform the test and the again to stop it, it usually goes back to 0
[18:38:42] <sabotender> ... pardon me for 'butting in'.
[18:38:47] <sabotender> CaptHindsight: are you around?
[18:39:09] <Bushman> but from time to time when i press the RUN button to stop the test it does not goes all the way to 0
[18:39:09] <Bushman> or overshoots 0
[18:39:10] <Bushman> on my dial gauge it's about 0.15mm and same happens on the tiny stepper
[18:40:09] <Bushman> i know as for my machine 0.15 is no accuracy cause it's all wood and junk but 0.15 here and there sums up to 2mm at times!!!
[18:40:33] <Bushman> so my question is how do i diagnose the PC side issue
[18:40:33] <andypugh> rodfrey: Your Python code can create HAL pins, which you can read.
[18:40:52] <sabotender> I didn't realise you can use python for that sort of stuff
[18:41:17] <andypugh> rodfrey: As a very simple example, look at hal_manualtoolchange as a python script that runs in Userspace but has HAL pins.
[18:41:43] <rodfrey> andypugh: cool, I'll look at that. Thanks!
[18:42:55] <andypugh> Bushman: LinuxCNC always does as it is told. (we would have lots of bug reports if it couldn't count steps). The question is, what is the difference between what you are asking the system to do, and what you think you are asking it to do.
[18:43:40] <andypugh> Do both motors run from the same stepper drive? Or are there two drives running from the same step-dir pins?
[18:44:59] <andypugh> sabotender: You can run the latency test to check latency. From the CNC menu. But there are other tools, such as latency-histogram too.
[18:47:11] <Bushman> andypugh: let's ignore the fact that i have commited the crime of running two separate stepper motrs from one driver. it was just for diagnostic purposes to visualise to me what is happening with my main stepper. what i'm asking the system to do is to run +/- 0.5mm at giver acceleration and maximum velocity
[18:47:24] <Bushman> andypugh: what i have observed is:
[18:47:56] <Bushman> the motor does what it is told most of the time
[18:48:08] <sabotender> andypugh: I am slightly peeved that a parallel port is a MUST HAVE
[18:48:16] <Bushman> but in random intervals of time or in random situations it does not
[18:48:24] <andypugh> sabotender: It isn't.
[18:48:31] <sabotender> so it means that I will need to get a pci -> parallel card just for the fun
[18:48:39] <Bushman> there is nothing else running on the PC. just stepper config.
[18:48:52] <Einar> Workshop shut down and locked? Check. Beer bootle empty? Check. Passing on this channel to the next time zone. Goodnight.
[18:49:16] <Bushman> all i do is press mouse button to click "Run" button in axis test
[18:49:20] <sabotender> andypugh: orly? I was told that usb -> parallel is a nono, serial -> parallel is a nono. I am not sure about 1392 since I have never owned a device that uses that
[18:49:23] <andypugh> Bushman: It is possible that the step timing is marginal for the drive, and that the drive is either losing steps, or seeing extra steps due to noise issues.
[18:50:08] <andypugh> sabotender: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
[18:51:00] <sabotender> andypugh: that penguin should also be wearing a respirator, when working with CNC stuff :-P
[18:52:05] <andypugh> That list excludes the Mesa 7i80 which connects via ethernet, here it is running a motor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HdikHRXnAs&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&feature=share&index=1 Not a parallel port in sight. :-)
[18:53:05] <sabotender> andypugh: what does it mean about 'toy design'?
[18:53:27] <Swapper_> andypugh: is 7i80 still only very beta ?
[18:53:34] <Swapper_> lcnc supportwise
[18:54:32] <andypugh> Swapper_: It is still pretty Beta. I definitely wouldn't be selling anything using it, but I would happily use it for my own systems
[18:54:35] <Bushman> andypugh: the noise was ruled out before
[18:54:53] <Swapper_> ok
[18:55:15] <Bushman> andypugh: we made extensive preventive steps to ensure there is no noise and it didn't change the end result
[18:55:45] <Bushman> andypugh: on osciloscope everything looks nice and dandy
[18:55:48] <andypugh> sabotender: Toy Designs are things that are not really any use for making stuff, but can be fun. Nobody needs a CNC etch-a-sketch
[18:56:05] <syyl-> :(
[18:57:01] <Bushman> we even established my version (red) of the TB6560 driver board has a lot better opto-couplers that allow me to use a lot higher speeds but the issue exist at any given speed
[18:57:04] <andypugh> Bushman: It's hard to see noise on a scope.
[18:57:13] <sabotender> andypugh: oh! I see! I never even thought of connecting an etch a sketch to CNC a fascinating concept though
[18:57:39] <Bushman> i've reduced the feed to 20mm/m and it still ended in wrong place at the end of the G-code
[18:58:20] <andypugh> Bushman: You could look at the counts in Halscope. That will be an accurate measure of how many steps the system has generated.
[18:58:44] <Bushman> andypugh: i have a quite nice scope and i can actually see the noise from my power tool but the thing is it happens even when the tool is OFF
[18:59:04] <Bushman> halscope?
[18:59:17] <Bushman> please tell me more?
[19:02:11] * Bushman is reading http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tools.html#_halscope_a_id_sec_halscope_a in hope that what he needs
[19:05:15] <rodfrey> andypugh: just as a test, trying to get access to the motion.spindle-on pin. In the MDI window:
[19:05:37] <rodfrey> ;py,h = hal.component("motion")
[19:05:57] <rodfrey> ;py,h.newpin("spindle-on", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
[19:06:16] <rodfrey> gets an error - invalid argument.
[19:06:25] <rodfrey> Am I abusing the API?
[19:06:36] <andypugh> rodfrey: I haven't actually ever made hal pins in Python myself, I just know it can be done. (the UIs do it, for a start)
[19:07:02] <rodfrey> Are the uis in python? if so that's a really good place for me to look!
[19:07:28] <andypugh> I don't think you want to call your component "motion" though, that sounds bad.
[19:08:23] <andypugh> Well, Axis is a peculiar blend of Tcl and Python that few understand. But you could have a look at Gscreen
[19:19:26] <Bushman> andypugh: halscope is a nice tool but besides using it as a notmal real-time osciloscope i have no idea how to use it to, i don't know... count the steps?
[19:20:38] <andypugh> Actually, halmeter might be better. But with either of them you can see the "counts" pin of the stepgen.
[19:33:12] <Bushman> andypugh: halmeter is more helpfull
[19:33:33] <Bushman> stepgen counts says it's back to 0
[19:34:20] <andypugh> It is basically inconceivable that the mumber of pulses LinuxCNC has tried to make, and the counts value will be different.
[19:34:37] <Bushman> yea ;/
[19:34:59] <Bushman> so i'm back to square one
[19:46:15] <andypugh> The second stepper is good, that eliminates anything mechanical. Is the driver making more or less steps than LinuxCNC is expecting
[19:46:55] <Bushman> i'm so confused right now that i have no idea what is going on with this ;/
[19:47:49] <andypugh> I am puzzled that the little stepper isn't on fire.
[19:48:49] <Bushman> it has higher resistance/impedance than my motor and i have current limiting active so it only took some of the current
[19:49:24] <Bushman> also i was making only short test for less than 30 seconds
[19:50:19] <Bushman> now i'm running my code with a dial gauge fixed on Z to seewhere the errors happen
[20:13:39] <XXCoder1> was playing with heeks cnc
[20:13:41] <XXCoder1> it sucks
[20:13:45] <XXCoder1> it keeps crashing
[20:24:23] <Bushman> also, it's super-intuitive!
[20:24:49] <XXCoder1> heekscnc?
[20:24:50] <Bushman> tho i might actually be talking about heeks cad
[20:27:16] <Bushman> i'm a bit unpatient person so when i've tried to create a simple shape in heekscad so i could later cut it out on my mashine, i gave up and wrote the g-code by hand ;/
[20:27:30] <Bushman> *machine
[20:27:40] <XXCoder1> I'm pretty far from knowing how do that lol
[20:28:08] <Bushman> do what? give up or write g-code?
[20:28:12] <Bushman> :P
[20:28:16] <XXCoder1> write g code directly
[20:29:13] <Bushman> well, it's like telling your machine "go 2mm this way on X axis please" except you just type "G1X2"
[20:29:57] <XXCoder1> yeah was pretty sure it wasn't that hard, just can't visualize yet
[20:30:20] <Bushman> the linux cnc visualises your g-code for you
[20:30:38] <Bushman> just refresh the file and all the edits will show up
[20:31:21] <Bushman> it gets tricky when you want to use your own sub routines that you call like in programming language
[20:31:34] <XXCoder1> cool
[20:31:41] <XXCoder1> just had a random thought
[20:32:01] <Bushman> but untill you tell him simple things like "go there", it's quite straight forward
[20:32:20] <XXCoder1> what if theres special program that dynimically runs cnc, and its programmed to cut based on voice. expensive way to do lps lol
[20:32:51] <XXCoder1> lp is grooves on disc basically after all
[20:33:07] <Bushman> hmm...
[20:33:20] <Bushman> it's doable with fast machines
[20:33:41] <Bushman> fast, rigid and precise :P
[20:33:52] <XXCoder1> indeed
[20:34:29] <XXCoder1> do it on steel and it's a record that will live long time.
[20:34:58] <andypugh> Lots of ways to control machines. I was using CamBam today, but I couldn't make it do a 3D profile, so I hand-wrote that G-code with point positions from the CAD package (click a node on the shape, convert that to G1 Xn Yn Zn
[20:35:25] <Bushman> put a disc on A axis and run it on constant speed, then set constant speed on X and Z takes the voice data and cuts it onto the disc. it's stupid simple, right!?
[20:35:34] <Bushman> that's why it won't work XD
[20:35:48] <XXCoder1> heh too many chances of miscut or screwups lol
[20:35:57] <XXCoder1> unless you pre-record voice
[20:36:12] <andypugh> I am absolutely sure that you could cut an LP with LinuxCNC.
[20:36:46] <andypugh> It is only a very small modification to my hexagon boring thing.
[20:37:04] <XXCoder1> would think its very automatable. script that reads sound files and figures disc size, spirl pattern so on
[20:37:24] <XXCoder1> done, just input object to be cut into cut speed so on
[20:37:51] <Bushman> XXCoder1: i'm sure some tricky implementation of fake servo feedback would do the trick without actually running any code besides the A spin and X feed
[20:37:52] <andypugh> Basically a conventional lathe facing move, with the "offset" HAL component adding the sound data as a wiggle in the X.
[20:38:26] <XXCoder1> lol would be funny if someone figured how. not too useful for me, was random thought
[20:38:33] <andypugh> It's actually so easy that it isn't interesting enough to actually do :-)
[20:38:36] <XXCoder1> hell I wouldnt even be able to listen to it
[20:38:55] <Bushman> yes you would be
[20:39:05] <Bushman> you could CNC a record player!
[20:39:08] <Bushman> :D
[20:39:31] <Bushman> you know, huge cone, tiny needle
[20:39:43] <andypugh> You could use your CNC as a gramahone.
[20:40:01] <Bushman> hmm...
[20:40:08] <XXCoder1> Bush yeah I'm deaf so even if it works perfectly.. yeah lol
[20:40:14] <andypugh> For extra fun you would use a mill and circular interpolation. (A lathe is too easy) :_)
[20:40:27] <Bushman> hi-speed analogue IO card, hal-to-alsa plugin
[20:40:35] <Bushman> voila!
[20:41:00] <andypugh> "Viola, a small Cello"
[20:41:28] <XXCoder1> heh 100% cnc made record and record player
[20:41:29] <Bushman> XXCoder1: deaf as totaly deaf?
[20:41:38] <XXCoder1> well other than needle I think
[20:41:44] <XXCoder1> yeah born that way lol
[20:41:52] <Bushman> suck to be you
[20:41:56] <XXCoder1> why?
[20:42:19] <Bushman> cause i can hear and i know how many things you're missing out
[20:42:32] <Bushman> not trying to be mean or anything
[20:42:36] <XXCoder1> meh. lol
[20:42:42] <andypugh> It's possibly one of the easiest things to work around, more so than being blind, less so than having no sense of smell.
[20:42:55] <XXCoder1> andypugh: thats where youre wrong'
[20:43:02] <XXCoder1> I find lack of smell MUCH more annoying
[20:43:13] <XXCoder1> poisoned myself few times
[20:43:25] <andypugh> I have quite a weak sense of smell.
[20:43:33] <Bushman> you mean you don't have smell either?
[20:43:37] <XXCoder1> I dont have any ability to smell
[20:43:37] <andypugh> I reckon touch would be the very worst to lose.
[20:43:54] <Bushman> ok, can you see?
[20:44:17] <XXCoder1> thankfully enough yes lol. 180 degree+ FOV :P
[20:44:26] <Bushman> just making sure before i'll post you some hot babes and get no response
[20:44:37] <Bushman> :P
[20:44:45] <andypugh> Unless IRC interfaces now do direct neural links, I reckon he has to be able to.
[20:45:00] <XXCoder1> theres ways around like text to voice
[20:45:07] <Bushman> andypugh: ugh... braile readers
[20:45:21] <XXCoder1> but yeah having 2.5 senses suck sometimes but most times its fine.
[20:45:48] <Bushman> i am oversensitive to high pitched sounds
[20:45:52] <andypugh> It's not just braille. Without touch you can't pick things up, and you break yourself a lot.
[20:46:11] <Bushman> believe it or not i can hear most of pulse PSU
[20:46:40] <andypugh> I can hear my iMac.
[20:46:49] <Bushman> andypugh: wait, what? who does not have touch?
[20:46:55] <XXCoder1> heh my grandmother had insane hearing level. I remember just turning over in bed and she would go up and sign SHHHH
[20:47:14] <Bushman> lol
[20:47:56] <Bushman> i just imagined you lying in your bed sleeping and you grandmother waking you up to sign "shhh" to you
[20:48:02] <andypugh> It's unusual to have no sense of touch, but I think I have heard of it happening. There are people who can't feel pain, which is more common.
[20:48:16] <XXCoder1> yeah no feeling is very rare
[20:48:54] <andypugh> There is a cahracter in "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" who can't feel pain.
[20:49:33] <Bushman> this whole conversation made me recall this bash quote:
[20:49:34] <Bushman> http://bash.org/?866224
[20:49:37] <Bushman> :D
[20:50:36] <andypugh> I like how the internet is such a leveller.
[20:50:41] <XXCoder1> lol yep
[20:50:54] <andypugh> You don't know who you are talking to, and it doesn't matter.
[20:51:15] <XXCoder1> http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA2LzIxL2RiL3RoZW5hbmRub3cuNWM2MTMuZ2lmCnAJdGh1bWIJMTIwMHg5NjAwPg/1a993bdd/26f/then-and-now.gif
[20:51:28] <andypugh> It is very intersting that above about the age of 14 you really can't guess age without other clues.
[20:52:09] <andypugh> XXCoder1: Excellent!
[20:52:28] <XXCoder1> person maturity does really depend on person not not really age. age just decides averages of maturity
[20:52:34] <Bushman> on unrelated note: i'm 115kg male with long hair and a beard, wearing pink unicorn costume and listening to MLP OST!
[20:52:37] <XXCoder1> later dinner heh
[20:52:42] <Bushman> WOOHOO! INTERNETZ!
[20:53:06] * Bushman lied about the long hair and the beard tho
[20:53:27] <andypugh> I normally wear a pink pirate costume, myself.
[20:53:58] <Bushman> with a plush parrot?
[20:54:08] <andypugh> No, that would be kinky
[20:54:16] <Bushman> :D
[20:56:48] <Bushman> i've run my code just now and the error was not more than 0.05mm
[20:57:34] <Bushman> it's late night so i'll leave the test with power tool ON for day time
[20:57:42] <Bushman> so, i'm off to sleep
[20:57:45] <Bushman> g'nite!
[20:58:09] <Tom_itx> andypugh it's alwasy fun to find out who you're talking to though
[20:58:17] <NickParker> Hey andypugh do you remember how you got table mode working for the hostmot2 stepgen?
[20:58:34] <NickParker> You gave me an example bit file that made one axis work back in december or so
[20:58:34] * Bushman is gone
[20:59:06] <Tom_itx> NickParker was that your first bit file?
[20:59:30] <NickParker> Tom_itx: The one I generated today? It was the first that didn't effectively brick the pc yeah
[20:59:35] <Tom_itx> i noticed you booted with it today
[20:59:47] <Tom_itx> did you use my tutorial for it?
[20:59:49] <Tom_itx> just curious
[20:59:51] <andypugh> NickParker: I am vague on the details. It is possible that I generated a bitfile for you,
[21:00:39] <Tom_itx> just woke from a 'jt' nap
[21:01:08] <andypugh> I have actually set up an Amazon cloud virtual PC that I wanted to set up to be a bitfile server, but then I got distracted
[21:02:22] <Tom_itx> it would be a cool utility to enter your boards and needs and have a bit file generate
[21:02:59] <andypugh> Yes, that was the plan. But I am not sure I have the time to learn the skillz
[21:03:43] <Tom_itx> i found out on mine with too many functions in the file it caused timing issues
[21:05:16] <Tom_itx> so although it may be automated i'm not sure every file generated would perform correctly
[21:06:39] <pcw_home> If the compile meets timing it should work
[21:07:06] <Tom_itx> you'd need a way to monitor the warnings
[21:08:01] <pcw_home> the only exceptions I have found are specific Xilinx bugs which can be worked around
[21:08:02] <pcw_home> (place and route return code is sufficient I think)
[21:08:35] <NickParker> Tom_itx: I did use your tutorial.
[21:08:47] <NickParker> I had tried to before but had all sorts of environment variables messed up in the ISE
[21:08:56] <Tom_itx> any problems following it?
[21:09:01] <NickParker> Nope.
[21:11:43] <pcw_home> I do most now with a batch file that builds all the configs
[21:14:05] <NickParker> Well anyway, does anybody remember what pins I need to set up for table mode with 4 outputs in hm2 stepgen?
[21:14:23] <NickParker> is it just 2 pair of step/dir for each axis?
[21:15:40] <NickParker> or, better question, did table mode ever get documented? You added it at the end of last year because I asked andypugh
[21:15:50] <NickParker> thanks again for that
[21:17:15] <pcw_home> in the firmware or the hal setup?
[21:22:06] <NickParker> in the firmware
[21:22:23] <andypugh> NickParker: There are vague and unclear clues here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen
[21:23:05] <PetefromTn> Ooh nice vague and unclear excellent ....
[21:23:16] <pcw_home> in the pin desc there are separate pins for each table output
[21:23:20] <PetefromTn> :p
[21:23:53] <pcw_home> take a look at the IDROMConst.vhd file
[21:24:06] <pcw_home> for pin constants
[21:24:28] <andypugh> I am sure that they made perfect sense to me when I wrote them :-)
[21:25:28] <NickParker> pcw_home: cool, pinc desc is what I was asking.
[21:25:32] <NickParker> I'll look through all that
[21:25:34] <andypugh> But now I can't see why there are only 4 bytes of pattern, and I can't remember if they are "columns" or "rows".
[21:25:56] <pcw_home> constant StepGenStepPin : std_logic_vector(7 downto 0) := x"81";
[21:25:57] <pcw_home> constant StepGenDirPin : std_logic_vector(7 downto 0) := x"82";
[21:25:59] <pcw_home> constant StepGenTable2Pin : std_logic_vector(7 downto 0) := x"83";
[21:26:00] <pcw_home> constant StepGenTable3Pin : std_logic_vector(7 downto 0) := x"84";
[21:26:02] <pcw_home> constant StepGenTable4Pin : std_logic_vector(7 downto 0) := x"85";
[21:26:03] <pcw_home> ...
[21:26:05] <pcw_home> := x"88";
[21:26:36] <andypugh> In some ways it is never a good idea to write the docs immediately, because at that point it all seems obvious,
[21:27:08] <NickParker> yeah sweet this is all I was looking for.
[21:27:22] <NickParker> I still have my old .hal file that made the one axis work, so i should be able to figure that side out as well.
[21:27:34] <NickParker> thanks folks
[21:34:57] <pcw_home> looks fairly easy, just sequential bytes
[21:36:48] <R2e4_> evening
[21:37:58] <PetefromTn> Evening.
[21:38:44] <R2e4_> have you gotten further with your tool changer?
[21:39:11] <PetefromTn> Why shit no LOL...
[21:39:31] <R2e4_> hehe
[21:39:44] <PetefromTn> You will undoubtedly finish before I do
[21:40:19] <R2e4_> im in the process to understand HAL better.
[21:40:40] <PetefromTn> Is that even possible?
[21:41:05] <R2e4_> the docs are good if you know it allready.
[21:41:25] <R2e4_> not very intuitive to learn from scratch from
[21:42:06] <R2e4_> need a HAL for beginners doc
[21:43:41] <PetefromTn> I spent a few hours trying to setup a part to machine this afternoon and ran up against some broken and dull bits I needed to setup and then tried to use my drill doctor to fix them only to get absurdly frustrated with that infernal piece of shit and finally succumbing to driving down to the Home Despot to buy some rather shitty replacement bits...then it was dinner time LOL.
[21:44:48] <R2e4_> lol, i feel your pain. i need a cylindical grinder for doing just that.
[21:44:51] <andypugh> R2e4_: We have many hal-for-beginners docs. Or do you need more simpler still?
[21:45:11] <R2e4_> where r they?
[21:45:51] <andypugh> I am imagining a HAL guide using this style of language: http://xkcd.com/1133/
[21:46:26] <R2e4_> i read the getting started hal and now i am on the hal mamial
[21:47:20] <Tom_itx> 'Hal for dummies'
[21:48:05] <R2e4_> lol, thats funny
[21:48:11] <PetefromTn> I really need to brake down and buy a quality set of US made drills for the shop.
[21:48:34] <andypugh> R2e4_: Have you read this one? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/intro.html
[21:48:34] <Tom_itx> or a couple
[21:49:11] <andypugh> PetefromTn: You say that like you thing that the US makes the best drills.
[21:50:07] <R2e4_> I read that one again completely this morning.
[21:50:12] <PetefromTn> Well from the bits I have bought individually the best ones have been us made...
[21:51:16] <PetefromTn> Especially when compared to the Chinese crappy ones I got in two different drill indexes I have bought over the years.
[21:51:17] <andypugh> Dormer? Gühring>
[21:52:08] <PetefromTn> Well I honestly wish I could afford an index full of those brands but that is most definitely NOT in the cards
[21:52:14] <Tom_itx> don't know as i've seen many dormer bits in the US
[21:53:08] <andypugh> My Cleveland set is 20 years old, they might have been made in the US :-)
[21:53:16] <PetefromTn> We have a Fastenal nearby that has three different brands the best of which is Norseman and I have been very pleased with the individual bits I have bought from them.
[21:53:35] <PetefromTn> Cleveland is US made I think.
[21:54:00] <Tom_itx> i got a decent set of number letter fractional 115? set
[21:54:13] <PetefromTn> There is also a Chicago something that is US made they sell but are apparently not as good.
[21:54:42] <Tom_itx> and a fair smaller set
[21:54:51] <Tom_itx> and a box full of assorted ones
[21:55:19] <andypugh> US biased recomendations here: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/recommendations-twist-drill-brands-199628/
[21:55:29] <PetefromTn> That's the kind of set I am needing and have but mine are Chinese crappy ones. I have been slowly replacing the shitty ones with better bits as I get them but many are broken or missing.
[21:56:25] <Tom_itx> i dunno what brand mine are
[21:57:27] <andypugh> I buy these when I want a one-off that I know will work well. But I assume they are a re-brand so not too helpful: https://www.cromwell.co.uk/publication_page_pdfs/1705/82.pdf
[21:57:28] <Tom_itx> i sometimes get bits for a job that go in the box or with a tap that they go with
[21:57:44] <Tom_itx> i've heard of cromwell
[21:58:25] <XXCoder1> what is bit file?
[21:58:25] <andypugh> Cromwell are a shop, not a manufacturer, though.
[21:58:57] <Tom_itx> a file for manually removing bits from a surface
[21:59:03] <R2e4_> when i engage my brake on the Z while the driver is enabled, i get an OL error on the drive
[21:59:18] <R2e4_> imassume that is normal
[21:59:38] <R2e4_> not good, but would be normal behaviour.
[21:59:42] <XXCoder1> isnt it toolpath that usually does it?
[21:59:49] <Tom_itx> XXCoder1 a bit file is a file that controls the way mesa cards work
[21:59:55] <XXCoder1> oh
[22:00:37] <XXCoder1> usually not a concern unless need custom thing huh?
[22:00:54] <andypugh> Actually, a set of Dormer bits isn't _that_ crazy-priced: https://www.cromwell.co.uk/publication_page_pdfs/1705/79.pdf
[22:01:57] <Tom_itx> gawd this pc's been running slow lately...
[22:03:00] <XXCoder1> use windows fix.
[22:03:05] <XXCoder1> that is, reinstall lol jk
[22:04:01] <R2e4_> PetefromTn, i have two power inputs for my drive, logic power and servo power
[22:04:20] <PetefromTn> Okay..
[22:04:52] <R2e4_> so i may have limit switches remove power from drivers
[22:05:22] <R2e4_> your encoders connect into mesa cards or drives?
[22:08:43] <PetefromTn> The encoders connect directly to the drives and then the drivers have encoder outputs go to the mesa card.
[22:09:34] <R2e4_> are the drives correcting position?
[22:10:29] <R2e4_> they dont know where they are, so i would think they cannot.
[22:11:22] <PetefromTn> If you are asking if they are closed loop then yeah linuxcnc controls position
[22:11:58] <R2e4_> ah, ok
[22:12:58] <PetefromTn> Hang on lemme check something for ya.
[22:16:40] <PetefromTn> Yeah that's how it works
[22:21:52] <PetefromTn> Guess I didn't answer his question too well LOL.
[22:24:41] <XXCoder1> if I buy sbr16 rails and ball screw stuff seperately how do I know if ball screw is long enough?
[22:26:06] <XXCoder1> if too long waste of money, too short useless
[22:26:25] <XXCoder1> but say if rail is 1000mm what should screw be? same or maybe bit longer?
[22:26:35] <andypugh> Well, the trick would be to buy the right length
[22:26:49] <XXCoder1> thats what I said yes lol but shorter
[22:27:16] <andypugh> Do you have any design drawings?
[22:27:33] <andypugh> or a 3D model, for preference?
[22:27:35] <XXCoder1> nah but I would just do basic moving gantry type
[22:27:57] <XXCoder1> so "table" box with rails on sides thats lower than surface
[22:28:13] <andypugh> The screws can be shorter or longer than the rails. It depends on design.
[22:28:20] <XXCoder1> screw under the "table" moving gantry
[22:28:40] <XXCoder1> thats why I suspect it should be slightly longer
[22:28:48] <XXCoder1> so it reaches end of box and are supported
[22:28:49] <andypugh> The travel will be less than the rail length by the bearing length.
[22:29:37] <XXCoder1> just found sbr12. smaller but probably too weak?
[22:29:51] <andypugh> if you are going for wide-spaced bearings for stiffness then the guides could be twice as long as the machine travel.
[22:30:24] <XXCoder1> found kit of 6x 500mm sbr12. small enough lol
[22:30:29] <XXCoder1> $200
[22:31:22] <XXCoder1> just over 1.5' too small lol
[22:31:32] <andypugh> The screw will be as long as the machine travel, plus the thust bearing length, plus the drive coupling length. But then if you put the nut on the far side of the gantry (or on both sides) you add the gantry too.
[22:32:20] <andypugh> You _really_ need a drawing. Or a model. Some sort of design, at least.
[22:32:28] <XXCoder1> indeed
[22:32:57] <XXCoder1> would sbr12 be strong enough to be stable on light alum routing?
[22:33:06] <andypugh> And a "design" is not a sketch saying "it looks a bit like a fish". You need dimensions and part numbers that you intend to use.
[22:33:36] <XXCoder1> still doing research on parts so yeah still on "kinda like fish" stage lol
[22:34:02] <XXCoder1> http://www.amazon.com/SBR12-400mm-1000mm-Supported-SBR12UU-BlockbEARING/dp/B00FQ92ITG/ref=sr_1_51?ie=UTF8&qid=1395544511&sr=8-51&keywords=sbr+linear
[22:34:49] <andypugh> Sorry, I went off on one there, but I got incensed when I was playing with RobotWars when folk said "I have a design for a robot" which was a drawing of a cool robot and an arrow saying "600mph spike goes here"
[22:35:14] <XXCoder1> X Y would be around 5' x 3' or thereabouts
[22:35:30] <XXCoder1> andy no, I do understand how important design is
[22:35:36] <andypugh> You can buy screw by the inch.
[22:35:47] <XXCoder1> just HAVE to have some idea of design before I start.
[22:35:56] <andypugh> Can you machine raw screws?
[22:36:11] <XXCoder1> lol nope no shop to build stuff with
[22:36:34] <Tom_itx> could be a challenge
[22:36:59] <XXCoder1> indeed
[22:37:01] <andypugh> Well, first buy a lathe. Nobody needs a milling machine more than they need a lathe.
[22:37:04] <XXCoder1> I need some challenge
[22:37:27] <XXCoder1> andy I'm looking for cnc router
[22:37:34] <XXCoder1> is cnc milling same thing?
[22:38:00] <CaptHindsight> a recent trend is to discuss a mill/router/cheese slicer with no drawings, 3d models or specs and argue over t-slot, 16mm vs 20mm rails and ballscrew sizes
[22:38:04] <andypugh> What do you want to rout?
[22:38:19] <XXCoder1> any wood and slow cut on alum
[22:38:58] <andypugh> OK, maybe woodworkers might need a router more than a lathe.
[22:39:04] <CaptHindsight> evidently if there is a youtube showing to toy working without any measurements of lash, flex, play or wobble that proof that it works well
[22:40:23] <andypugh> I spent all of today cutting 16mm thick profiles with a 3mm cutter because I bought stock too small to use a decent-sized cutter.
[22:40:29] <andypugh> That was annoying.
[22:41:17] <andypugh> Because my mill has a max spindle speed of 1500 rpm, 3mm cutters are _really_ slow,
[22:41:37] <Tom_itx> i bet that took a while
[22:41:44] <CaptHindsight> lots of expert machine builders in here recently that haven't built a single machine yet
[22:42:06] <andypugh> I am one of them.
[22:42:14] <andypugh> I have never built a machine.
[22:42:15] <XXCoder1> if youre reffering to me, I aren't an expert
[22:42:31] <XXCoder1> andy if youre interested I found an amazing how to with 8020
[22:42:45] <XXCoder1> http://www.overclock.net/t/755828/complete-2-x-3-custom-cnc-router-from-80-20-aluminum-extrusion
[22:42:52] <Tom_itx> i doubt he's into aluminum machines
[22:42:57] <XXCoder1> billion pics there though if you has download limit
[22:43:16] <XXCoder1> yea lol prefers cast iron if I recall
[22:43:23] <CaptHindsight> people tend to be more teachable when they are trying to finish their machine vs at the beginning
[22:44:37] <andypugh> Indeed. I have started to tell folk to buy a 2020 engraver kit first, make that work, then, and only then, take their production machine offline to retrofit.
[22:45:26] <andypugh> 2020 is great for the controller enclosure, but not for a machine frame.
[22:45:48] <XXCoder1> I hope my job sutation would change soon so I can afford more
[22:45:57] <CaptHindsight> all the recent Chinese routers I've purchased are all machined pretty well, but they seem to be clueless as to how to mount the ballscrews
[22:46:46] <andypugh> Very few people understand bearings
[22:46:47] <CaptHindsight> I uncrated one today where the X axis had >1/8" of play
[22:46:59] <XXCoder1> 1/8? wow holy gap
[22:47:33] <XXCoder1> when its usually far less than mm from what I recall on tolences
[22:47:50] <CaptHindsight> they used split lock washers as springs for preload on the bearings
[22:48:05] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:48:11] <andypugh> I actually find bearing arrangments fascinating, it's my favourite design feature. I like nothing more than a zig-zag load path through multiple bearings.
[22:48:23] <XXCoder1> guess thats bad thing, dunno lol
[22:48:55] <CaptHindsight> another relied on the flex coupling for preload
[22:49:18] <andypugh> XXCoder1: Screw backlash should be too small to measure, ie bearings pre-loaded to more than cutting force.
[22:49:30] <CaptHindsight> I could compress the coupling as well as get some axial play out of the stepper motor
[22:49:48] <XXCoder1> wish I knew which size SBR equals how strong so on. for example sbrXX is strong enoggh for wood cutting but not alum so on and on
[22:50:32] <CaptHindsight> yeah, any more than maybe 5-10 lbs of cutting force and you have .125" lash
[22:52:49] <XXCoder1> heh theres so much to learn just to be passable hobby cnc engineer
[22:53:28] <CaptHindsight> lots of suppliers have application notes, hardly anyone seems to read them
[22:53:42] <andypugh> This is similar to what I used on my X. This is rotating-nut. I wanted the drive to reduce X travel as little as possible. So the belt and the bearing are in the same plane. In the final design (not online at the moment) I flipped the motor and used two bearings with preload. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/X9ZXwL-oMXpF9cc6wAIbQNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:54:35] <CaptHindsight> ballscrews and supports, ballscrews vs leadscrews, bearings and mounts, motor sizing etc etc look it up
[22:55:06] <andypugh> The point I am trying to make, though is that this is not something you can design in your head. You need a drawing, if you are really clever, or a 3D model if you are less clever
[22:55:26] <humble_sea_bass> you also need to get it wrong
[22:57:14] <andypugh> This is the final iteration of that design in the metal: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oLM693wLua_FB8juhNe26tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:58:11] <andypugh> There is no way that would have worked without drawings/CAD]
[22:58:31] <XXCoder1> this might help me http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/128351-rails-choose.html
[22:58:57] <humble_sea_bass> staying off that forum might help you more
[22:59:06] <XXCoder1> why?
[22:59:17] <andypugh> XXCoder1: help who?
[22:59:21] <XXCoder1> me
[22:59:32] <XXCoder1> thats why I said "help me"
[23:00:11] <andypugh> So you did. Sorry. I thought you were saying that I needed help :-)
[23:00:18] <XXCoder1> np heh
[23:00:42] <humble_sea_bass> at this point you're theorycrafting, that is to say whipping yourself into a frenzy over the perfect, whic sounds like you can't afford or have the knowhow to achieve
[23:01:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nookindustries.com/Product/ProductGroup/Guidance?_kk=linear%20bearings&_kt=9559438b-7550-4473-81cb-dfe6b36501cd&gclid=CMGSrfHep70CFY3m7Aod2wEAZQ
[23:01:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.thomsonlinear.com/website/com/eng/leadgen/na_ppc_linear_bearings_guides.php?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NA+-+Bearings+&+Guides+-+Search+-+Brand&utm_adgroup=Bearings+-+General+-+Broad&utm_term=thomson%20linear%20bearing&gclid=CI7QrfLep70CFRFp7Aodyw8AIg
[23:01:51] <XXCoder1> perfect?
[23:02:29] <humble_sea_bass> would you prefer i say min/maxing
[23:02:50] <XXCoder1> nah doing massive amount of research before I even start
[23:03:01] <andypugh> You can't afford your perfect machine. That's the main thing to realise.
[23:03:19] <XXCoder1> indeed thats why I'm not sure where humble gets "perfect" from.
[23:03:34] <XXCoder1> I know one I make wont equal something 10x the cost
[23:04:24] <humble_sea_bass> here is the thing
[23:04:37] <humble_sea_bass> you can research from here to kingdom come
[23:05:01] <humble_sea_bass> and you won't know your ass from your elbows until you get to fiddling
[23:05:21] <XXCoder1> yeah but then more I know, less chance I order something useless
[23:06:01] <andypugh> I kind of specialise in "squeezing things in" which isn't likely to matter in a scratch-build. But here are some links to my stuff on CNCzone which might give you some ideas. This one shows that the bearings can be a long way from the drive pulley: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini-lathe/63621-mini-lathe-cross-slide-ballscrew-solutions-post509784.html#post509784
[23:06:30] <CaptHindsight> why not buy a cheap router and fix it?
[23:06:59] <humble_sea_bass> you see, the reason I say stay off the CNC Zone forums is that you ask 10 dudes there for design advice and you'll get 10 different answers based on their level of experience, location on the autism spectrum, brand prefence etc
[23:07:47] <CaptHindsight> like this channel, only in near real time
[23:07:49] <humble_sea_bass> and none of it will matter until you get down to business and start building things
[23:08:21] <andypugh> And the Harrison, which is a mix of rotating-screw and rotating-nut axes. The differential screw taper coupling is really neat (not my invention). http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical-mill-lathe-project-log/109301-harrison-universal-miller-conversion.html
[23:08:30] <XXCoder1> yeah always. :) I like to say that you can read stack of books on how to ride bicycle but its down to experences, fails, successes, so on to get real handle on it.
[23:08:34] <Tom_itx> everyone's experience and resources is different as well
[23:10:15] <Tom_itx> i'm stuck with a cheap little sherline wishing i had a full shop full of cnc's to play with like i used to do
[23:10:20] <andypugh> And they change. My first conversion was done on the cheap. The second wasn't. There was a reason for that, the first one was rubbish.
[23:10:50] <Tom_itx> but i've gained alot of experience with it
[23:10:57] <humble_sea_bass> just remember, it is easier to cut things than to add back on, measure twice cut once, remember where your fingers are, don't say "lookit dis"
[23:11:29] <XXCoder1> or even worse - "hey hold my beer and look at this"
[23:11:31] <XXCoder1> ;)
[23:12:49] <andypugh> I see beer as a way to lower my IQ to machinist level :-)
[23:12:54] <GuShH_> humble_sea_bass: look it dis
[23:13:11] * GuShH_ grabs the chainsaw
[23:13:16] <andypugh> (that was meant to be a joke, if it wasnt
[23:13:25] <andypugh> clear0
[23:14:24] <andypugh> Hmm, you know, I think I might have a broken wrist. It's been odd for more than a month now.
[23:14:36] <CaptHindsight> http://us.yakaz.com/posts/00005s7h0jui8dlg Sherline/Craftsman Mini lathe - $250
[23:14:40] <XXCoder1> some bones do heal very slowly
[23:15:06] <GuShH_> that's tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny
[23:15:08] <XXCoder1> and some never do. My second toe on right foot has been broken twice and never healed
[23:15:37] <GuShH_> Do you want me to break the other one so it's even and symmetric?
[23:15:38] <andypugh> I don't recall doing anything to break it. The strength is normal, but no-load waving it about hurts like heck.
[23:15:38] <CaptHindsight> wrist fractures, yikes, 6 weeks in cast
[23:15:53] <Tom_itx> not just sprained?
[23:16:02] <GuShH_> chances are it healed but not properly
[23:16:08] <humble_sea_bass> andypugh: did you yank it in some odd manner
[23:16:10] <XXCoder1> strained, carpal tunnel, arthiris
[23:16:46] <andypugh> The problem appeared while off-piste skiing.
[23:17:31] <andypugh> Hmm, sat here waving hands, about. One wrist is silent. one make noises.
[23:17:40] <CaptHindsight> has there been any talk about another linuxcnc fest this year?
[23:17:57] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Yeah, your house.
[23:18:11] <Tom_itx> andypugh i've got an ankle that's done that for years
[23:18:14] <CaptHindsight> I'll leave the door open
[23:18:57] <XXCoder1> okay leave door unlocked 1 am? I need to ste er borrow your stuff
[23:19:46] <humble_sea_bass> where was the last one
[23:20:27] <Tom_itx> here
[23:20:31] <XXCoder1> I wonder if its simpler (if bit more expensive) to do screws on both sides of X at once rather than centeral and under screw
[23:20:33] <Tom_itx> MPM
[23:20:37] <CaptHindsight> Wichita Kansas
[23:21:10] <CaptHindsight> somebody mentioned going back to Michigan this year
[23:21:41] <humble_sea_bass> where in michigan
[23:22:09] <CaptHindsight> Ann Arbor
[23:22:23] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EMC_Fest_2010
[23:22:42] <andypugh> Ye should all com to the UK, we could take over emf
[23:23:05] <CaptHindsight> is EMF a pub?
[23:23:16] <andypugh> https://www.emfcamp.org
[23:23:53] <CaptHindsight> is there a hotel at the campsite?
[23:24:24] <andypugh> So, yes, it is a pub, amongst other things.
[23:25:01] <humble_sea_bass> they had me at genetic modification
[23:25:41] <andypugh> if you need a hotel, bear in mind that it is the UK, a tiny island where no blade of grass is more than 30 miles from a hotel.
[23:25:59] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:26:19] <CaptHindsight> imperial miles?
[23:27:00] <XXCoder1> just like seattle - you almost can't look anywhere level and NOT see coffee shop. :P
[23:27:13] <XXCoder1> (really not that extreme but it does seem so sometimes)
[23:27:43] <zeeshan> andypugh:
[23:27:44] <zeeshan> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5678683819608466866?pid=5678683819608466866&oid=108164504656404380542
[23:27:47] <zeeshan> interesting way to cut sheets
[23:27:48] <CaptHindsight> heh, you should go to Seoul, they have coffee shops every few doors
[23:28:08] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:28:16] <humble_sea_bass> japan was a trip
[23:28:32] <humble_sea_bass> they love coffee, they'll make it 2000 different ways
[23:28:36] <CaptHindsight> japan is another fun place
[23:28:36] <andypugh> zeeshan: Ah, yes, Q-max cutter and abused mill. I had a lot to do.
[23:28:41] <humble_sea_bass> all weak as hell and disappointing
[23:29:27] <CaptHindsight> you're supposed to buy it in those little 250ml cans
[23:29:35] <XXCoder1> finally starting to form some design ideas
[23:30:02] <humble_sea_bass> only time I was happy to see a starbucks in my life was in Kyoto with a hangover
[23:30:21] <XXCoder1> :) I dont care personally, I'm not coffee person
[23:30:27] <XXCoder1> hell I dont even drink soda
[23:30:33] <zeeshan> maybe you guys can help me identify something i found in the toolbox
[23:30:35] <zeeshan> 1sec.
[23:30:45] <GuShH_> zeeshan: drilldo
[23:30:59] <XXCoder1> widget.
[23:31:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.plateoftheday.com/food_blog/japanese_food/bossCoffeeSelection.gif
[23:31:10] <humble_sea_bass> fuck man. you stole my idea
[23:31:30] <XXCoder1> in least its not bossY coffee lol
[23:31:38] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Many hotels: https://goo.gl/maps/FJd0B
[23:31:55] <tjtr33> anyone know an example of a python script accessing mesa pins?
[23:31:55] <tjtr33> this is in regards to ...rodfrey asked" Can I access arbitrary pins and signals from a remap python script? "
[23:32:13] <humble_sea_bass> boss coffee! I remember his weak flavor like it was yesterday
[23:32:27] <CaptHindsight> oh it's near Bletchley park
[23:32:32] <andypugh> Yes :-)
[23:33:03] <andypugh> Which is an excellent several days-out
[23:33:24] <XXCoder1> looks like zees hagving bit issues finding pic or object itself
[23:33:33] <zeeshan> i was playing with the drilldo.
[23:33:37] <zeeshan> got preoccupied
[23:33:46] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:34:09] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I'm not sure how many of the uhmerikans would make the trip
[23:34:17] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/rqvNFgV.jpg
[23:34:19] <zeeshan> what is it
[23:34:23] <zeeshan> 3 matching pairs
[23:34:26] <zeeshan> or weird looking blocks
[23:34:35] <GuShH_> failed project?
[23:34:36] <zeeshan> i guess i shouldnt say pairs
[23:34:43] <andypugh> tjtr33: Well, once your code makes pins in HAL they can link to anything, including Mesa
[23:34:59] <zeeshan> tell me!
[23:35:09] <GuShH_> zeeshan: unfinished space invaders
[23:35:11] <XXCoder1> wonder what those numbers mean, dont seem to mean size
[23:35:15] <tjtr33> but the pins are already made, so i'm missing some word thing here
[23:35:26] <zeeshan> looks like an aluminum castle
[23:35:58] <zeeshan> okay since theyre nothing
[23:36:05] <GuShH_> milled nothinness
[23:36:05] <zeeshan> i will use them as billet blocks to make something else out of
[23:36:23] <andypugh> Perhaps they fit into slots in a machine table, as a fixture?
[23:36:44] <zeeshan> hm
[23:37:16] <zeeshan> hey
[23:37:16] <zeeshan> wtf
[23:37:19] <zeeshan> i found my oil dip stick
[23:37:21] <zeeshan> haha!
[23:37:27] <zeeshan> through this pic.
[23:37:28] <zeeshan> nice.
[23:37:31] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:37:34] <andypugh> Yeah, I was about to ask about that,
[23:37:49] <zeeshan> i lost it a while ago
[23:37:51] <XXCoder1> in least pic was useful
[23:37:54] <zeeshan> ive been cleaning up the garage
[23:37:57] <andypugh> Looks like a PSA one
[23:37:59] <zeeshan> been finding all sorts of stuff
[23:38:10] <zeeshan> its from a 6.0L ls series engine
[23:38:12] <zeeshan> gm
[23:38:36] <zeeshan> here's another one to pick your brains
[23:38:38] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/4FF57E6D-39C0-40AE-A75F-D3A7584FFBDA_zpscmxmkhub.jpg
[23:38:40] <zeeshan> what vise is this
[23:38:44] <zeeshan> it has a fancy "G" on it
[23:41:05] <GuShH_> anything with a G belongs to me!
[23:41:10] <zeeshan> haha
[23:41:18] <GuShH_> except for your g strings.
[23:41:21] <GuShH_> keep them.
[23:42:14] <XXCoder1> Okay sending you "Good size pile of shit", or "GSPS"
[23:42:52] <GuShH_> I don't care, I want the vise!
[23:42:57] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:45:12] <tjtr33> andypugh, got it, the import linuxcnc,hal will export the namespace so the pins can be accessed. cool, thx
[23:46:23] <andypugh> zeeshan: Nice pull-down vice.
[23:49:57] <XXCoder1> acciently found this http://www.cnccookbook.com/GWCalcFeedsSpeeds.htm
[23:50:01] <XXCoder1> sounds useful
[23:50:40] <andypugh> XXCoder1: Try this: http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard
[23:51:10] <andypugh> zeeshan: Glacern?
[23:51:30] <XXCoder1> thanks. not exactly concerned with this topic yet due to lack of cnc lol
[23:51:35] <XXCoder1> but fav'd
[23:59:52] <andypugh> I am still learning to trust the calcs. 15mm/min used to seem too much on the mini-mill. The Harrsion looks like it would be happy at more than 200mm.min (6mm cutter, alu, 1000rpm)