#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-20

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[01:05:36] <CaptHindsight> the 1204 ballscrews for the Z axis are terrible http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl4530-desktop-cnc-router-with-3-motors
[02:50:57] <Deejay> moin
[04:31:48] <kengu> how long can the db25 cable between mesa cards 7i76+6i25 be. as I was planning on putting the pc under the plasma table in the frame somewhere there (no problem with cable) but other option is to put it up on the wall. could be better but I would need 1m more of cable. cable now is the 6ft that came with the kit.
[06:36:30] <jthornton> morning
[07:19:26] <skunkworks> morning john
[07:21:52] <jthornton> morning Sam
[07:23:40] <skunkworks> first day of spring!
[07:25:45] <jthornton> YIPPIE!
[08:20:37] <R2E4> mornin folks!
[08:22:19] <skunkworks> Good morning!
[08:23:17] <R2E4> Tonights the nite I release my brake on the Z!!!!
[08:23:28] <skunkworks> good luck!
[08:23:51] <skunkworks> (I think when we where tuning - we put a tire under the vertical axis...
[08:24:16] <skunkworks> wait - isn't your machine a horizontal mill?
[08:24:17] <skunkworks> so isn
[08:24:18] <R2E4> Thats a good idea
[08:24:33] <R2E4> its a vertical mill.
[08:24:37] <skunkworks> oh
[08:24:38] <skunkworks> ok
[08:24:44] <R2E4> 24" Z travel though
[08:25:15] <skunkworks> ours is horizontal - (with 24 inches of z travel) ;)
[08:26:15] <R2E4> The montstor? That thing has 24" of vertical travel?
[08:26:34] <R2E4> Jeez, I cant spell. monstor
[08:26:39] <R2E4> monster
[08:27:15] <skunkworks> no - z is in-out of the spindle (horizontal) it is X=38 Y=36(vertical axis) and z=24
[08:27:50] <R2E4> Ah, that would confuse the shit out of me
[08:27:57] <skunkworks> heh
[08:27:57] <R2E4> lol
[08:30:17] <skunkworks> the y axis is couterbalanced with hydraulics - so unless we lost hydraulics - it would stay
[08:38:21] <R2E4> When you hydraulic pump shuts off?
[08:38:26] <R2E4> what happens?
[08:39:35] <skunkworks> the brake engages... ;)
[08:40:59] <R2E4> OK, the hydraulic disengages the brake, like when you enable that drive, it apllies hydraulics to keep the brake off. When you lose hydraulics the brake engages
[08:42:54] <R2E4> Mine is when I lose power, the brake engages
[08:42:55] <skunkworks> correct.
[08:43:48] <R2E4> Mine has a few contacts that need to be met before the brake disengages.
[08:45:01] <R2E4> one is power on, second one is machine-is-on or drive is enabled, and the third is a command from the controller. This is the way it was before.
[08:45:59] <skunkworks> when linuxcnc is turned 'on' the drives enable, the brake hydraulic solinoid is turned on...
[08:46:17] <skunkworks> (disabling the band brake)
[08:46:46] <R2E4> What if your drive doesnt enable?
[08:46:58] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/ybrake.JPG
[08:47:23] <JT-Shop> just be sure your E-Stop works as expected
[08:47:35] <R2E4> hehe, its a disc brake...
[08:47:44] <skunkworks> well - following error - estop
[08:48:23] <R2E4> e-stop will turn the machine off, which will engage the brake
[08:48:23] <skunkworks> (if the axis starts to drop (because the dive doesn't enable)
[08:48:30] <skunkworks> exactly
[08:48:57] <skunkworks> we actually had the y axis drive go flakey and do this exact thing
[08:49:38] <R2E4> could add drive enabled input as a condition to release the brake.
[08:50:14] <R2E4> That way, if the drive doesnt enable for some reason, the brake stays on
[08:52:07] <R2E4> wait, the drives dont have drive enable output, they have ready output but I think that is to say it is ready to be enabled, not sure
[08:56:09] <Jymmm> http://htwins.net/scale2/
[08:58:30] <skunkworks> not had a problem enableing the drives and disabling the brake at the same time
[09:10:08] <R2E4> ok, I'll do that
[09:10:33] <R2E4> Gots to scrounch up 90VDC though...... for the brake
[09:17:46] <skunkworks> 8 12v car batteries?
[09:17:55] <skunkworks> ;)
[09:18:19] <Jymmm> ten 9V batteries
[09:18:54] <GuShH_> So I'm watching this for lack of having anything better to watch http://www.rockntv1.com/2014/01/40939-6x26-mini-knee-mill-review.html (the video) and I noticed the tags, quite some funny ones heh
[09:19:05] <GuShH_> "MADE IN CHINA FIXED IN USA" haha
[09:19:22] <gonzo_> a 20-0-20 transformer and voltage doubler
[09:19:25] <GuShH_> It just confirms what I already knew, these machines are a waste.
[09:19:52] <GuShH_> R2E4: how much current at 90vdc?
[09:22:06] <R2E4> 60 1.5v AAA batteries
[09:22:13] * GuShH_ stabs R2E4
[09:22:28] <GuShH_> how much current?
[09:22:49] <R2E4> Its just a solenoid in the motor, so I would say 1 amp max
[09:22:59] <GuShH_> measure it's inductance or at least it's resistance
[09:23:04] <GuShH_> surely the solenoid is rated
[09:23:13] <GuShH_> and solenoids come in many sizes
[09:23:15] <R2E4> I have the bridege rectifier they used. They put 100vac in and used that dc
[09:23:25] <GuShH_> yeah that was going to be my suggestion
[09:23:37] <GuShH_> but that's way over 90vdc
[09:23:39] <GuShH_> unless you drop it
[09:23:48] <GuShH_> and here it wouldn't work, we have 220
[09:24:11] <R2E4> The schematics show 90vdc, but the machine had 100vac going into the bridge and the output going directly to the brake with a snubber on it.
[09:24:36] <GuShH_> snubber is just for the solenoid coil
[09:24:42] <R2E4> yeah
[09:24:55] <GuShH_> better than no snubber!
[09:25:24] <R2E4> As soon as I do this, i have the spindle and then the tool changer and its done./.....
[09:25:35] <GuShH_> :o
[09:25:43] <GuShH_> Can I play with it?
[09:25:56] <R2E4> my snubber?
[09:25:59] <GuShH_> Haha
[09:26:08] * GuShH_ frowns
[09:26:26] <R2E4> I sit infront of it running the X and Y..,...
[09:26:35] <R2E4> send it mdi commands, watch it run.
[09:26:40] <R2E4> hehe
[09:26:41] <GuShH_> Hrmm trying to identify this steel, it machines very nicely but the chips are more like dust, as if it were iron, but it behaves like steel... do most free machining steels cut like that? I've only seen them chip nicely
[09:27:04] <GuShH_> should do a spark test
[09:27:28] <GuShH_> although I've cut it with the angle grinder before, I remember they were relatively short yellow sparks
[09:28:09] <tjtr33> 240Vac single wave rectified might do ( dryer outlet and a single diode, no caps! )
[09:29:31] <kengu> how critical is the length of the db25 cable between mesa cards 7i76+6i25 be. as I was planning on putting the pc under the plasma table in the frame somewhere there (no problem with cable) but other option is to put it up on the wall. could be better but I would need 1m more of cable. cable now is the 6ft that came with the kit.
[09:30:56] <GuShH_> tjtr33: what?
[09:31:09] <GuShH_> in what world do you get 90vdc from rectifying 240VAC
[09:31:11] <CaptHindsight> kengu: how far do you need to go?
[09:31:15] <GuShH_> you get over 300vdc.
[09:31:18] <GuShH_> whether it's single or full
[09:31:31] <kengu> CaptHindsight: 2m to 3m so one meter more
[09:32:10] <GuShH_> kengu: what's the interface?
[09:32:24] <jdh> 170V
[09:32:25] <GuShH_> protocol
[09:32:56] <CaptHindsight> GuShH_: between a Mesa 6i25 and 7i76
[09:33:10] <GuShH_> but it's rs-422 or similar?
[09:33:28] <GuShH_> an extra meter will work assuming you use good quality cables and connectors
[09:33:41] <CaptHindsight> if forget, maybe someone can beat me looking it up in the docs
[09:33:50] * GuShH_ shrugs
[09:34:42] <R2E4> pcw did not reccomend me changing their 6foot cable to 10ft. So I didnt.
[09:34:44] <tjtr33> GuShH_, on earth, dunno where you're from, single diode Vdc = Vpeak / pi 240/pi = 76.4 or 120Vac fullwave ( 4 diodes ) is near same
[09:34:51] <GuShH_> youtube should really allow one to ban a finite amount of ads depending on where they come from
[09:35:01] <GuShH_> for instance that dave dude, I don't want to see his face nor hear his bitchy whiny voice...
[09:35:58] <GuShH_> tjtr33 : peak is the same whether you rectify single or full, you just change the amount of pulses at any given point in time with the type of rectification.
[09:36:36] <GuShH_> unless you want to double or triple
[09:36:45] <GuShH_> from split windings.
[09:36:47] <CaptHindsight> kengu: Mesa also ships 10' cables so your 12' should not be a problem with quality IEEE-1284 cables
[09:36:55] <tjtr33> and the value is near 76V likely will handle the brake rated at 90V
[09:37:30] <kengu> CaptHindsight: uhm. I tried finding alternative cables from mesanet but got distracted before I got to the cables
[09:37:33] <kengu> great
[09:37:34] <kengu> thanks
[09:38:08] <GuShH_> tjtr33: no, single or full rectified 240 is always going to be near to 340VDC, what are you talking about?
[09:38:13] <GuShH_> perhaps you got your terms wrong.
[09:38:24] <CaptHindsight> kengu: even though they are differential pairs you'll still want to use good practice when routing. Not near other high voltage or high current sources etc etc
[09:39:23] <tjtr33> please read , its was single rectification not full wave not filtered
[09:39:39] <tjtr33> yes your terms are wrong
[09:39:40] <kengu> yeah. that is the tricky part as it is a plasma cutter but I'll try
[09:39:41] <GuShH_> single means 1 diode in series, it will peak to over 340
[09:40:01] <GuShH_> tjtr33: you are misguiding him and YOUR terms are wrong
[09:40:55] <tjtr33> the guy who needs to relase the brake, make a simple test and abvouid the info your get here. the meter will tell you the truth
[09:41:07] <pcw_home> 120V with 1/2 wave rectifier and no filter should be close
[09:41:21] <tjtr33> no hten GuShH_ would be wrong!
[09:41:50] <GuShH_> my god you are a major troll
[09:41:55] <GuShH_> have you ever studied EE to begin with
[09:42:14] <GuShH_> or are you an ass crack branding electrician with electrical tape ear-rings?
[09:42:16] <pcw_home> (though I dont know if there enough inductance to reduce the 60 Hz ripple enough)
[09:42:53] <GuShH_> that's up to the coil's field, neither of you know the details -which were asked by me but got no response-
[09:43:11] <pcw_home> for a capacitor input filter you want about 65VAC
[09:43:17] <tjtr33> hope the guy with the brake gets what he needs
[09:44:40] <GuShH_> hope is not part of any electrical equation
[09:45:42] <pcw_home> Since it was run before with no filter and fullwave rect at 100VAC that might be easiest
[09:45:43] <pcw_home> (if th e100VAC is still around)
[09:46:01] <GuShH_> you would have to introduce a series resistor and "HOPE".
[09:46:04] <R2E4> I am going to give it exactly what it had before. 100vac going through a full wav bridge =>snubber=solenoid(in the moor)
[09:46:19] <GuShH_> who uses 100vac?
[09:46:28] <R2E4> The japaneese.
[09:46:29] <pcw_home> Japanese
[09:46:42] <GuShH_> they still do? not 110-120?
[09:46:57] <GuShH_> are you in Japan?
[09:47:07] <R2E4> no, but I have a Japaneese machine
[09:47:21] <GuShH_> what's your mains voltage
[09:47:23] <pcw_home> Most Fanuc drives of the 80s's/90's have 100 VAC somewhere
[09:47:38] <R2E4> 220 3 phase
[09:47:45] <GuShH_> what the homebrew electrician was trying to suggest won't work unless you introduce a limiting factor, or you don't care to fry the coil
[09:48:39] <pcw_home> do what was originally done: 100VAC --> Bridge --> coil
[09:48:45] <GuShH_> excess heat will eventually break down the insulation, specially given the vibrations of over-driving it
[09:48:56] <R2E4> yeah, thats what I'll do pcw
[09:49:27] <pcw_home> and arc suppressors!
[09:50:01] * GuShH_ gives up on homebrews
[09:50:21] <GuShH_> do whatever you want, in fact, hook it up to your stick welder in reverse for all I care now.
[09:50:25] <R2E4> IT has one allready. I left it intact. I have just a pair of wires to apply 90vdc...
[09:50:51] <R2E4> haha, GuShH: what did you eat for breakfast?
[09:51:08] <GuShH_> R2E4: a sensible conversion is performed by using an auto-transformer with multiple taps, which will get you 120, 110, 100 VAC to choose from.
[09:51:20] <skunkworks> eh - sometimes doing everything 'by the book' isn't worth the time and effort..
[09:51:34] <GuShH_> that's how it's done in the industry, now if you are a ghetto ass duct-tape-riggin-white-trash-dont-care guy, go ahead.
[09:51:50] <GuShH_> skunkworks: sometimes drinking and driving is OK, until someone dies too.
[09:51:56] * jdh whips out the duct tape
[09:51:59] <GuShH_> it's all OK until you fry it.
[09:52:09] <GuShH_> a hamster on a dc generator will be OK.
[09:52:14] <CaptHindsight> good thing I didn't mention running a cord over from Japan
[09:52:25] <skunkworks> heh
[09:52:37] <R2E4> I didnt want to replace everything in the machine.
[09:52:49] <skunkworks> our matsuura at the moment is being run by extention cord...
[09:53:15] <GuShH_> what you can do is either use a simple triac chopper, or series diode with a limiting factor (namely a resistor) you can then filter to reduce harmonics and noise, the snubber is doing another job, which is to dampen the back emf and nothing else.
[09:53:57] <GuShH_> but go ahead, fry it or abuse it however you wish, not my equipment!
[09:54:08] <R2E4> IT is getting the exact same thing it had before. How is that abusing it?
[09:54:17] <GuShH_> an autotransformer costs close to nothing you probably already have one as well.
[09:54:37] <R2E4> What do I need an autotransformer for?
[09:54:51] <GuShH_> you have 220 mains, unless you introduce a resistor you'll be giving it peaks of three to four times it's rated voltage.
[09:55:01] <GuShH_> good luck.
[09:55:17] <R2E4> giving what?
[09:55:20] <GuShH_> don't whine once it cooks up after a while!
[09:55:28] <R2E4> WTF are you talking about?
[09:55:43] <GuShH_> you shouldn't be near a couple wires if you can't read that.
[09:56:06] <R2E4> The machine takes 220 3 ph, thats exactly what I am giving it.
[09:57:10] <GuShH_> Prior to that, you said it was Japanese made and it took 100VAC, that the coil required 90VDC.
[09:57:13] <GuShH_> Get your shit straight first.
[09:57:31] <R2E4> There's transformer in there that supplys 100vac, which is used for switching and what not.
[09:57:32] <GuShH_> Don't waste everyone's time.
[09:57:50] <GuShH_> Then there's already an autotransformer, which was mentioned and you said "why would I want one of those"
[09:58:04] <GuShH_> if it's isolating, all the better
[10:00:16] <R2E4> Never heard of a multitap transformer being called an autotransformer
[10:01:19] <GuShH_> a transformer which has only a primary is called an auto-transformer
[10:01:40] <GuShH_> it's commonly used to switch from 110 to 220 and vice-versa, some have multi-taps to switch between all standards.
[10:01:53] <GuShH_> there's no need for isolation on that case, so no secondary is present...
[10:01:59] <GuShH_> makes it cheaper to manufacture, just one winding.
[10:02:10] <GuShH_> it's a split inductor....
[10:02:21] <GammaX> archivist, you have a manual to that lathe by any chance?
[10:02:37] <GuShH_> I have one on my fridge, just because you haven't heard of the right term doesn't mean they don't exist...
[10:02:51] * jdh applies the duct tape
[10:03:04] <R2E4> never said it didnt exist.
[10:04:31] <R2E4> Anyway, theres a few 3ph tansformers in there that take the 220 mains and supply voltages for several things. one of which is 100vac for the switching and it goes to a bridege rect, that is sent to the brake.
[10:04:37] <R2E4> through contacts
[10:05:05] * R2E4 removes the duct tape
[10:05:08] <GuShH_> That's fine, but until just NOW we didn't know the step-down was already present, which is why all of those suggestions were given
[10:05:22] <GuShH_> it was most likely already retro-fitted.
[10:05:36] <R2E4> no, those are from the factory.
[10:05:37] <GuShH_> you are not playing with a machine that hasn't been modified before.
[10:05:52] <GuShH_> why would they need the transformer, if they have 100vac in Japan.
[10:06:10] <GuShH_> unless all of the control circuit is way under voltage than what you expect.
[10:06:16] <R2E4> the machine's main supply is 220 3 ph
[10:06:30] <GuShH_> why even mention it's japanese, if it was always 220
[10:06:46] <GuShH_> you are full of shit sir. I suggest you quit on the pills or the booze, whatever is messing with your head.
[10:06:47] <R2E4> because they use 100vac
[10:06:51] <GuShH_> fuck sake.
[10:07:09] <GuShH_> they wouldn't in the industry they most likely use 220 or 380 or 600
[10:07:28] <CaptHindsight> https://www.adafruit.com/products/636#Description carries that $50 ebay microscope http://www.adafruit.com/images/large/ID636die_LRG.jpg they don't say the working distance of this shot
[10:07:38] * GuShH_ gives up all "hope"
[10:08:05] <CaptHindsight> these might be a good fit for a spindle mounted camera for auto=alignment
[10:08:33] <R2E4> theres no hope in electronics
[10:09:26] <CaptHindsight> if it works with Linux
[10:09:26] <GuShH_> this is electrical work, not electronic.
[10:09:43] <GuShH_> electricians are like plumbers.
[10:09:47] <GuShH_> or basic mechanics.
[10:10:17] <CaptHindsight> and doctors are like body mechanics
[10:27:12] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: they swap parts around until you work?
[10:27:23] <GuShH_> that's what mechanics do.
[10:28:00] <CaptHindsight> parts and meds sure
[10:57:09] <archivist> Gamma-X, no and the price from southbend themselves frightened me
[10:57:24] <Gamma-X> hmmm hae a model number? Maby one online
[10:58:19] <archivist> it you give your serial number they can give you the build record too
[10:58:47] <Gamma-X> just want general schematics and instructions for the guys at the shop
[10:59:33] <archivist> never really needed a manual for mine, just do it :)
[11:00:07] <archivist> I did take off the power switch when I putr a single phase motor on it
[11:00:44] <Gamma-X> well no one knows the speeds of the thing and I got the clutch to lock into place with that dogbone, thanks!
[11:05:38] <archivist> setting the back gear and dog clutch is a way of removing chucks etc
[13:01:19] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[13:01:51] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder1: ?
[13:02:15] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: ?
[13:03:27] <IchGuckLive> kengu: ?
[13:03:33] <kengu> who?
[13:03:34] <kengu> lonely
[13:03:47] <IchGuckLive> hi you asked about DB25 cable lengt
[13:03:56] <R2E4> roll call? lol
[13:03:56] <kengu> I installed plasma cutter linuxcnc computer on the ceiling
[13:04:04] <kengu> it did work with the longer cable
[13:04:09] <kengu> at least without plasma operative
[13:04:12] <IchGuckLive> i drive the Mesa 5i25/7i76 on a 15feet cable at 5m/min
[13:04:26] <IchGuckLive> its a plasma here 2
[13:04:32] <_methods> plasma makes a lot of EMI
[13:04:47] <kengu> yeah. but I am pretty sure it will still work
[13:04:47] <_methods> ground ground ground
[13:04:53] <IchGuckLive> _methods: agree you need a IEEE1284
[13:05:10] <_methods> yeah i've had lots of plasma related issues
[13:05:16] <_methods> piercing
[13:05:17] <IchGuckLive> kengu: no problems here in germany so far
[13:05:37] <IchGuckLive> _methods: plasma is a
[13:05:56] <_methods> IchGuckLive: you have a plasma?
[13:06:01] <IchGuckLive> 3
[13:06:08] <_methods> what torch height controls?
[13:06:14] <kengu> no thc
[13:06:17] <_methods> ah
[13:06:22] <kengu> (here)
[13:06:28] <IchGuckLive> i use a EAGLE compatible from Polen
[13:06:41] <_methods> torch?
[13:06:43] <IchGuckLive> kengu: go THC
[13:07:06] <IchGuckLive> torch ios 2 mauell and one cnc
[13:13:17] <kengu> IchGuckLive: the z is floating at the moment, pneumatic up/down. I would need to figure out a way to control z with a stepper or something to be able to.. but yeah. It is on the list but not first priority at the moment
[13:13:30] <kengu> binary z at the moment (:
[13:15:07] <IchGuckLive> you will burn up your nozzles realy fast in no control
[13:20:02] <GuShH_> IchGuckLive: hi
[13:21:11] <IchGuckLive> hi in my youtube channel there are 2 videos that show the foamcutter cutting parts in ONe fixure
[13:22:41] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_ndXDZ0DU a rome entry in one shot
[13:23:27] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: a scale ship for GFK molding in one shot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMp6QVtOoZw
[13:25:18] <XXCoder1> IchGuckLive: hey
[13:25:23] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello, your recent video looks good for editing the heeks file
[13:25:37] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder1: see the last to youtube links
[13:25:58] <XXCoder1> lemme look
[13:26:03] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: thanks the goal is to see the python changes clear readabel
[13:26:08] <XXCoder1> better not be handheld
[13:26:22] <XXCoder1> ow. heh
[13:26:42] <kb8wmc> I had to set the resolution higher then all was clear
[13:26:45] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder1: look at the rome entry scale pice
[13:26:45] <XXCoder1> awesome though!
[13:26:57] <XXCoder1> foam eh
[13:27:30] <XXCoder1> 15 series 8020 eh
[13:28:41] <XXCoder1> it's awesome though
[13:47:43] <CaptHindsight> kengu: what plasma cutter do you have mounted on that?
[13:48:55] <kengu> HyperTherm Powermax45
[13:52:09] <CaptHindsight> kengu: easy to mount? does it comer with brackets or did you fab something?
[13:52:53] <CaptHindsight> I see they have a machine torch version
[13:53:29] <kengu> it is some machine torch
[13:53:40] <kengu> it was on it when it shipped from china
[13:53:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hypertherm-Powermax-45-Plasma-Cutter-Mechanized-088022-/370891029400
[13:55:19] <kengu> looks familiar
[13:58:06] <IchGuckLive> i dont like the hypertherm cost are to high on thin sheets
[13:58:33] <IchGuckLive> but up to 8mm+15mm thick it is the best
[13:58:48] <GuShH_> IchGuckLive: very nice, are the plans available somewhere?
[13:58:58] <IchGuckLive> the 50:1 THC divider gives very good results
[13:59:14] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: plans on wwhat
[13:59:20] <GuShH_> styrocut
[13:59:35] <IchGuckLive> its just XY
[13:59:54] <IchGuckLive> and a wire in between 8Ohm per meter ;-)
[13:59:54] <GuShH_> you can get XY in over 1000 different ways though
[14:00:33] <IchGuckLive> yeah thats up to you what you got in germany there is good supply on all kind of things this is different in the world
[14:00:33] <_methods> waht plasma cutters are you all using?
[14:01:12] <IchGuckLive> Expondo is the best at 300Euros
[14:01:26] <IchGuckLive> nozzel sets 10 pices 30USD
[14:01:39] <_methods> nozzle and electrode?
[14:01:46] <_methods> or is it just a nozzle
[14:01:49] <IchGuckLive> yes and 3 caps
[14:03:20] <_methods> how many amps is your power supply?
[14:03:36] <IchGuckLive> on what
[14:03:39] <_methods> expondo
[14:03:47] <_methods> torch power pack
[14:03:49] <IchGuckLive> 55
[14:03:52] <_methods> nice
[14:03:58] <_methods> cut 12mm?
[14:04:02] <_methods> pierce 12mm
[14:04:26] <IchGuckLive> lower then 5mm you need only 25
[14:04:40] <_methods> what is maximum thickness?
[14:05:00] <IchGuckLive> i did not thest this as we got a hypertherm on that
[14:05:13] <_methods> hypertherm 1250?
[14:05:21] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOTOS-IGBT-70-Amps-Pilot-Arc-Plasma-Cutter-LTP7000-with-CNC-cutting-feature-/380667875492?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a192d0a4
[14:05:38] <IchGuckLive> powrmax 85
[14:07:04] <_methods> i need a better air compressor before i build my plasma table
[14:08:03] <IchGuckLive> _methods: 43.5m is not a good length for the torch cable you might run into trouble
[14:08:08] <IchGuckLive> 4.5
[14:08:19] <_methods> i'mg going to build a small table
[14:08:29] <_methods> 48"x48"
[14:08:38] <IchGuckLive> ou need for a good plasma table size that means normal sheet marall parts a 7m cable
[14:09:13] <IchGuckLive> 1.5x1.5m is the min i woudt go
[14:09:20] <_methods> yeah
[14:09:23] <_methods> that's what i'm building
[14:09:32] <IchGuckLive> as there are very good rail prises at that length
[14:09:37] <_methods> if i need to cut somethign bigger i'll do it at work
[14:10:16] <IchGuckLive> _methods: so why a expensiv cutter its only 2 cables that need to be solded
[14:11:22] <_methods> ?
[14:12:03] <_methods> anyone here used this thc
[14:12:05] <_methods> http://www.candcnc.com/LCTHC.html
[14:13:31] <IchGuckLive> _methods: why not the eagle plasma one you can build this in your case
[14:13:39] <_methods> eagle plasma?
[14:13:44] <IchGuckLive> and it got Linuxcnc access
[14:14:00] <IchGuckLive> http://eagleplasma.com/thc.htm
[14:14:25] <_methods> tht would work too
[14:14:31] <IchGuckLive> just hook it up and you are done and it also ot the hypertherm divider
[14:14:57] <IchGuckLive> same from polen http://proma-elektronika.pl/cnc-plasma-thc-controller-torch-height-control/
[14:15:04] <IchGuckLive> this is the one i use
[14:15:34] <_methods> i'm still doing research
[14:15:43] <_methods> need to pick table design still
[14:15:46] <IchGuckLive> on hacked THCUD comp and using M66 for wait on pircing ready
[14:16:05] <IchGuckLive> _methods: did you see my vid on design
[14:16:14] <_methods> no
[14:16:48] <IchGuckLive> keep in mind 1inch + flame size water depth
[14:17:13] <IchGuckLive> so 30-40mm
[14:17:43] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kllGspehQ
[14:17:45] <_methods> i won't use water table
[14:19:04] <IchGuckLive> you shoudt
[14:19:14] <IchGuckLive> ok im off
[14:19:18] <pcw_home> Or use our THCAD and let linuxcnc do the THC
[14:19:56] <_methods> thcad?
[14:20:36] <pcw_home> an alternate way to do a THC is to use a LinuxCNC compatible A-D and let linuxcnc do all the logic
[14:20:47] <_methods> i see the mesa card?
[14:20:55] <_methods> lilke a real plasma table
[14:21:31] <_methods> i assumed that those other thc solutions were doing the same thing
[14:22:30] <_methods> you need a better pc to handle that?
[14:24:07] <pcw_home> Not really
[14:24:08] <pcw_home> the A-D brings the torch voltage into LinuxCNC and all control is done in HAL (vs an external box)
[14:24:11] <pcw_home> bbl
[14:24:35] <_methods> k
[14:27:01] <_methods> oh wow mesa cleaned up their site
[14:27:26] <_methods> prices and no insane list
[14:27:45] <Deejay> "welcome to the black mesa transit system"
[14:28:24] <_methods> wow it's much better
[14:28:55] <PetefromTn_Andro> It needed some help..
[14:29:24] <Deejay> hi pete from tennessee
[14:29:28] <_methods> the plug and go kits is nice
[14:29:36] <_methods> makes it less confusing i guess for new people
[14:29:42] <PetefromTn_Andro> Hey deejay..
[14:29:53] <_methods> hell i still get cornfused when i'm tryin to pick something on there
[14:31:38] <_methods> they need a super dummy section for people like me though
[14:31:46] <_methods> that breaks down the card uses barney style
[14:34:08] <PetefromTn_Andro> Wouldn't hurt..
[14:36:33] <_methods> crayons would help me
[14:37:03] <PetefromTn_Andro> Me too I love colors.
[14:41:02] <miss0r1> I have just built a transistor driver for a relay connected to my spindle on this cheap chinese cnc mill. I am now trying to figure out how to configure the .hal file so that I can turn the spindle on and off - it is connected to pin 2, and should come out on the other side of this tonsen 4-axis controller as axis 'a' 'CK'. Any suggestions?
[14:48:42] <miss0r1> I guess what I am also asking: What should it look like in the hal config to use the commands M3 and M5 ?
[14:52:43] <_methods> why would it come out as axis a?
[14:52:51] <_methods> shouldnt that be for an actual A axis
[14:54:27] <miss0r1> indeed. But I have no A axis, so I just decided to use one of its outputs. But I have made it work. Thanks thou
[14:54:37] <_methods> k
[14:58:29] <PetefromTn_Andro> Jeez man 5:30 is never gonna get here today...
[15:04:16] <gene78> do we have a parport.#.pin#-out-not function?
[15:06:03] <gene78> apparently not, my .hal file gets loooonnggeerrr
[15:38:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130935455737 super precision XY gantry $2500
[15:42:13] <humble_sea_bass> loving the supre precision 2x3's it sits on
[15:43:03] <CaptHindsight> those are just wood grain granite blocks
[15:43:51] <humble_sea_bass> i want this so bad
[15:43:55] <CaptHindsight> that table new was probably $50K
[15:44:06] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/img_1800.jpg
[15:44:15] <CaptHindsight> well now, but back then $30K
[15:44:43] <Gamma-X> hey guys still building my machinist tool collection... can you recomend top 5-10 tools used with machining?
[15:44:59] <_methods> caliper 0-8
[15:45:02] <_methods> mic 0-1
[15:45:10] <_methods> edge finder
[15:45:19] <rodfrey> Hello! I'm a newb to both machine building and linuxcnc. I'm having trouble understanding how to connect my VFD to the controller.
[15:45:20] <_methods> deburring tool
[15:45:21] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: end of arm plasma paint remover?
[15:45:54] <_methods> dial indicator
[15:45:55] <humble_sea_bass> you could probably take over several small countries with that arm
[15:46:00] <rodfrey> I'm using the Mesa 5i25 with 7i76 daughterboard.
[15:46:10] <Gamma-X> _methods, got all those so far...
[15:46:26] <_methods> well you should be good to go lol
[15:46:28] <CaptHindsight> Kukas are for cocopuffs
[15:46:36] <_methods> coaxial indicator
[15:46:56] <rodfrey> I actually don't know where in the chain my problem lies... but I can't get the spindle enable posts on the 7i76 to work. When I try to enable the spindle in pncconf, it crashes, and I don't know what to put in the .hal file manually.
[15:47:02] <_methods> i have a motorcycle mirror with a magnet on it for when i'm workin on tombstones
[15:47:05] <_methods> doing setup
[15:47:13] <_methods> so i can see the far side of tombstone
[15:47:33] <_methods> lots of rulers
[15:47:41] <_methods> parallesl
[15:48:45] <_methods> mag bases
[15:49:05] <_methods> what type of machinist are you?
[15:49:07] <_methods> cnc setup
[15:49:09] <_methods> operator
[15:49:13] <_methods> manual mostly?
[15:49:14] <Gamma-X> lol
[15:49:17] <Gamma-X> cnc
[15:49:24] <_methods> setup or operator
[15:49:31] <Gamma-X> both
[15:49:53] <Gamma-X> got all my machinery, just building tool colection for wht I dont know about.
[15:50:02] <_methods> you have the basics like wrenches and stuff
[15:50:11] <_methods> allan's, thandles,
[15:50:57] <Gamma-X> yeah yeah
[15:51:06] <_methods> well what your machining will determine a lot of the tools you need
[15:51:57] <Gamma-X> ill be doing a lot of repeat work so making jigs would be good... is there software that would make a jig setup in cad for the part you created?
[15:58:15] <rodfrey> Is anyone else getting 403/Forbidden on http://www.linuxcnc.org?
[15:58:35] <CaptHindsight> yes, just did
[16:04:16] <cradek> I'm on it
[16:07:41] <tjtr33> fine here
[16:08:42] <cradek> fixed
[16:13:36] <tjtr33> that gantry is very hi quality, are those linear motors? specs say "Anorad magnetically controlled X/Y axis movement"
[16:20:18] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: yes anorad linear servos
[16:28:41] <rodfrey> thanks cradek for the quick fix
[16:31:24] <Jymmm> cradek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qchPLaiKocI
[16:48:37] <Einar> I'm about to try G76. My lathe have a rear mounted tool. I want a RH thread, so I must start near the chuck and thread out past the end of the workpiece. My tool have 30deg cutting edge facing away from the chuck. The thread is 22mm, 2.5mm pitch. So what should I put in the parameters? Z is obviously going to be larger than the start position near the chuck. But what about P and Q?
[16:48:43] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: it looks a bit weathered but the linear servos don't wear, the coils might delaminate if they get hot enough
[16:50:06] <CaptHindsight> some of the fasteners look a bit oxidized, so I'd ask for closeups of the linear bearings if interested
[16:53:46] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, thx, i dont have a use for it but it looks like a good deal for someone wanting fast and precise
[16:54:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171030384219 RV series rotation stage, DC servo high torque, 0.001deg resolution
[16:57:42] <tjtr33> 22rpm, those worm drives slow you down a lot ( mine is .001deg also with 90:1 split worm )
[17:04:04] <CaptHindsight> how do you keep a ballscrew accurate without any preload on the bearings?
[17:05:12] <CaptHindsight> those keiling routers count on the force from the flex couplings as preload
[17:06:49] <CaptHindsight> so the preload gets transferred onto the bearings on each end of the ballscrews and also onto the bearings in the motors
[17:14:44] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/300638 the bearing on the left is 19mm OD in a 20mm ID hole
[17:21:20] <PCW> got to leave room for expansion
[17:23:43] <CaptHindsight> I was just looking at some others for higher prices and they use leadscrews
[17:24:07] <Deejay> gn8
[17:49:11] <Einar> What's wrong here: http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/gjenger.jpg Look at the start of thread on the left. Z accelerates too high, then settles back down.
[17:52:21] <XXCoder1> weird
[17:57:01] <EinarLathe> here is the code that made it: g76 P2.5 z3 i-1 j0.3 k2.5 r2.0 q-30 e0.5 l1
[17:57:23] <EinarLathe> m6t1
[17:57:40] <EinarLathe> Oops! Wrong window. :-)
[17:57:56] <XXCoder1> well hope you solve it
[18:04:07] <JT-Shop> Einar, what kind of encoder do you have?
[18:06:14] <Einar> I's home made: 90 slots, 1 deep slot. A,B on all slots, Index only reading deep slot.
[18:08:02] <Einar> Checked the input on Univstep board with a scope, and they are all nice and square with almost 5V swing.
[18:09:51] <Einar> Here are my .HAL files: http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/
[18:12:33] <Einar> Of interest maybe, from univstep_motion.hal: setp ppmc.0.encoder.03.scale 360
[18:15:06] <JT-Shop> I'm out of bandwidth for the month so I can't look at the jpg
[18:15:39] <JT-Shop> Z will try and keep up with the spindle
[18:20:04] <Einar> The .jpg shows that it starts out with too coarse pitch, then slows down and stays that way until the pass is finished.
[18:21:20] <JT-Shop> my guess is after the index pulse the Z is trying to "catch up" and the result is a coarse pitch
[18:21:41] <JT-Shop> what is your max velocity and acceleration on the Z axis
[18:21:58] <PCW> probably exceeding the Z axis accel limits
[18:22:36] <JT-Shop> kinda what I was thinking
[18:25:30] <Einar> Max Velocity 30, max acceleration 80. (Metric)
[18:26:28] <Einar> And Z SCALE 200
[18:28:31] <JT-Shop_> my connection reset so the last thing I saw was And Z SCALE 200
[18:29:06] <Einar> Max Velocity 30, max acceleration 80. (Metric)
[18:29:49] <JT-Shop_> I would expect acceleration to be 300 to 600 for a max velocity of 30
[18:30:20] <JT-Shop> I've found 10-20 times velocity is acceleration
[18:31:41] <PCW> Yeah that's fairly slow (I think that accel is supposed to be factored out on spindle synced moves but there may be limits)
[18:32:43] <Einar> So I have to fiddle about with accel and PID too then. Any tips on figuring out when I overdo it?
[18:33:01] <JT-Shop> velocity servo drive?
[18:33:18] <Einar> No Univstep board and step motors.
[18:33:47] <JT-Shop> why do you have PID with steppers?
[18:34:09] <JT-Shop> I'm not familiar with Univstep
[18:34:22] <Einar> My question too. But that seems to be the way this board works.
[18:34:44] <PCW> Actually they all work that way
[18:35:35] <Einar> I feel a bit lost since there is no physical pin where I can connect my scope to. :-(
[18:35:58] <Einar> On PID inputs and outputs, that is.
[18:35:58] <PCW> (though in the Mesa and LinuxCNC software stepgen the feedback loop is built into the driver)
[18:36:16] <PCW> halscope
[18:36:35] <PCW> but the stepgen PID should not need tuning
[18:36:52] <Einar> I never got friendly with halscope. It's too different from my Fluke and Tek scopes.
[18:38:11] <PCW> Not familiar with Picosystems stepgens but another possible cause of "catching up" is not enough velocity headroom
[18:38:43] <PCW> but halscoping ferror will tell you if you have a tuning issue
[18:38:49] <JT-Shop> oh this is a pico systems board?
[18:39:04] <JT-Shop> Jon is on the forum and will help you out
[18:39:07] <Einar> Yes.
[18:39:33] <JT-Shop> have you been to the forum?
[18:40:53] <Einar> Yes. Here: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/26-turning/26991-converting-a-boxford-250b
[18:47:30] <JT-Shop> post about your threading problem on the driver boards section with as much detail as you can
[18:48:51] <Einar> It's midnight here now. I'll post in the thread tomorrow. Goodnight.
[18:50:55] <JT-Shop> ok
[22:13:12] <R2E4_> evening
[22:13:59] <R2E4_> pcw_home: you around?
[22:14:22] <pcw_home> sort of
[22:14:26] <R2E4_> lol
[22:14:37] <R2E4_> My Z axis dropped on my jack
[22:15:27] <R2E4_> I enabled it, released the jack it oscilated when I tried to move it. I dropped the P, and it moved. but when I hit E-stop, it dropped to my jack
[22:16:05] <R2E4_> I checked it and it still had 94vdc on it. I think the 100vac arced across contacts, I have no other explanation.
[22:16:36] <GuShH_> ...
[22:16:41] <pcw_home> The brake will store a lot of energy
[22:17:19] <pcw_home> you need acr suppression across the relay contact or you will weld them in a hurry
[22:17:25] <pcw_home> arc
[22:17:38] <R2E4_> IT has a snubber on it. The same one that was in the machine before.
[22:18:06] <R2E4_> but I waited like 5 minutes.
[22:18:09] <pcw_home> what releases the brake?
[22:18:44] <R2E4_> machine is on <= relay
[22:19:42] <pcw_home> Is it a RC snubber?
[22:20:02] <R2E4_> yes, .1uf 200ohms
[22:20:24] <pcw_home> I guess really it should go across the brake
[22:20:50] <R2E4_> It is.
[22:21:33] <R2E4_> Maybe I have polarity backwards, or does it matter?
[22:21:53] <pcw_home> Shouldn't
[22:23:26] <pcw_home> I guess I would disable the Z drive, prop up Z and try turning the brake on/off
[22:23:29] <R2E4_> I was thinking maybe it arced across the relay
[22:24:29] <pcw_home> seems unlikely unless the relay is shot
[22:27:02] <R2E4_> its my machine-is-on relay, everything is starting with it.
[22:27:52] <pcw_home> its not a separate relay?
[22:38:59] <R2E4_> No.
[22:39:29] <pcw_home> so this is a multipole relay
[22:42:09] <R2E4_> yes, 24vdc 4 pole
[22:42:33] <R2E4_> The 1 inch by 1.5 inch standard relay
[22:43:19] <R2E4_> They were switching it with the same type of relay.
[22:47:47] <R2E4_> The way it was before, DC was passing through AB relay which when power is on it is energized. Both sides of DC passes through it, then both sides passesthrough a relay contact controlled by the controller, then it passed through what they call pre relay, that has a few things passing through it.
[22:48:05] <R2E4_> I am having "machine-is-on" passing through the pre relay.
[22:48:39] <R2E4_> There is the snubber across the dc just before it leaves the control cabinet to the sol in the motor.
[22:49:08] <pcw_home> The snubber needs to be across the brake itself
[22:49:28] <R2E4_> In the moptor?
[22:49:39] <R2E4_> In the servo?
[22:50:08] <pcw_home> no but across an unbroken (by relay contact) path to the brake
[22:50:40] <pcw_home> otherwise you will destroy your relays
[22:50:41] <R2E4_> IT is where it was when the machine was running. I didnt change anything with it.
[22:51:24] <R2E4_> Should I use a solid state relay?
[22:53:38] <pcw_home> what is the brake wiring?
[22:53:40] <pcw_home> +DC --> relaycontact --> brake1 --> brake2 --> -DC
[22:53:58] <pcw_home> and where is the snubber
[22:56:48] <R2E4_> 100vac = bridge rect=> relay contact(one side of DC) => snubber (across DC)=> brake
[22:58:32] <pcw_home> snubber is across the DC power?
[22:58:42] <R2E4_> yes
[22:59:08] <R2E4_> thats how it was, so I left it.
[23:00:27] <pcw_home> that will not protect the relay (its has to be across the relay contacts or the brake)
[23:02:07] <R2E4_> You mean physically at the sol forthe brake?
[23:02:42] <R2E4_> cause it is across the brake sol, right before it leaves the cabinet, 6 feet of wire before the mnotor.
[23:03:47] <pcw_home> OK it just needs to be electrically across the brake , not the DC power source)
[23:04:24] <R2E4_> ok iot is.
[23:05:58] <R2E4_> http://www.irmtl.com/cnct/VM40%20WITH%20SEICOS%20M2-MICON16-2.pdf on page 47 of pdf drawing# E2731-10-41-00
[23:06:07] <R2E4_> its a big pdf.
[23:08:08] <pcw_home> Thats going to take too long
[23:08:09] <pcw_home> Like I said I would verify brake operation with the Z drive disabled and axis propped up
[23:08:14] <tjtr33> when you say "I checked it and it still had 94vdc on it." , do you expect at that time for the brake to hold? i think at that time the brake is released.
[23:09:02] <pcw_home> Yes check the relay and wiring carefully
[23:09:31] <pcw_home> and its sleepy time for me...
[23:09:32] <pcw_home> 'Nite
[23:09:35] <R2E4_> no, with 90vdc on it, it should be released.
[23:09:37] <tjtr33> gnite
[23:09:38] <R2E4_> Thanks pcw
[23:11:06] <tjtr33> ok :) we said the same thing, thats ok. with 90vdc on brake it is released.
[23:11:13] <R2E4_> tjtr33: when I hit e-stop, the relay dropped out but 94vdc was still there.
[23:11:46] <R2E4_> I am thinking it arced across the contacts, I have no other explanation.
[23:12:19] <tjtr33> i understand, and that is wrong, the 90vdc should go away with estop
[23:12:54] <R2E4_> The relay that was proving the 90vdc dropped out when I hit e-stop.
[23:13:14] <R2E4_> That relay is following "machine-is-on"
[23:13:20] <tjtr33> but pcw's idea still is good. see that it is true that with 90v= its free and without it is held ( just jumper clips. no servo power )
[23:13:56] <tjtr33> then move on to the problem of _when_ it should get 90v= and when it shouldnt ( separate the problems )
[23:14:54] <R2E4_> There is no 90vdc on it now and it is held. I know for a fact when I apply 90vdc, the brake disengages.
[23:15:10] <tjtr33> if the relay opens, the power is off, right? so you can check the contacts with an ohmeter while all power is off and see if the contacts welded
[23:15:22] <R2E4_> I see what your saying.
[23:15:26] <tjtr33> else, there is another path for 90Vdc to get to the brake
[23:16:02] <R2E4_> ok, I'll dothat.
[23:16:07] <R2E4_> tomorrow.
[23:16:34] <R2E4_> They had three switches that all have to be mnet to release the brake.
[23:17:03] <tjtr33> i used to get bendix brand brake problems ( clutch plate style ) and would take out my car jumper cables and battery and force them open just to free up a jammed tool :)
[23:17:05] <R2E4_> AC power on the machine ( removes boith side of 100vac)
[23:17:20] <tjtr33> best o luck, you're close
[23:17:50] <R2E4_> a contact from the control (removes both sides of dc)\
[23:18:03] <tjtr33> i service equipment, i didnt jam the tool ;)
[23:18:11] <R2E4_> and third is when they turned power on to the control(one side of dc)
[23:18:16] <R2E4_> haha
[23:18:47] <tjtr33> i had a hard time follwing the ladder diagram, kinda scattered over many pages
[23:19:07] <R2E4_> I only have the last relay connected( one side of dc)
[23:19:31] <R2E4_> yeah, it was a bitch to figure out. I am really close though.
[23:19:52] <tjtr33> if only 1 relay is in circuit now, then the continuity test should tell you a lot
[23:19:57] <R2E4_> I had a jack under it and it dropped 2 ", scaredthe be-jesus out of me.
[23:20:18] <tjtr33> i use timbers,
[23:20:44] <R2E4_> I disconnected the dc power and tested continuity, on and off and the ciurcuit is ok.
[23:21:07] <R2E4_> I used a jack with timber on it in case it slammeddown, I could release the jam.
[23:21:52] <tjtr33> oh, and the snubber does have to be right at the brake itself, the winding of the brake is what stores the energy, just like an old car ignition coil, and when you de-energize the coil, you get a big spark, and that what can pit the contacts, so you need a snubber
[23:24:34] <R2E4_> it has one, the same one the machine had. I didnt change it nopr the location, it is in parralel with the brake electrically.
[23:24:49] <tjtr33> then its good
[23:25:03] <R2E4_> The sol for the brake is in the motor, dont think it will fit.
[23:25:07] <R2E4_> ok
[23:25:17] <R2E4_> I'm so close I can smell it.
[23:25:32] <tjtr33> you dont wanna smell it ;)
[23:25:49] <R2E4_> haha
[23:25:59] <tjtr33> well best o luck, you'll get it
[23:26:16] <R2E4_> I think I will duplicate it exactly as it was with the poldcontrol.
[23:26:47] <R2E4_> I gotta run. nite. Thanks tjtr33
[23:26:59] <tjtr33> gnite