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[00:00:21] <tjtr33> XXCoder1, the new HeekCNC has stock removal animation, but M$ only afaict ( wouldnt run under Wine for me on Ubuntu 10.04)
[00:01:20] <tjtr33> HeeksCNC at heeks.net
[00:01:23] <XXCoder1> not bad thanks
[00:22:42] <The_Ball> Does Charles Steinkuehler hang out here?
[00:38:24] <tjtr33> wow full syllabus for CNC course at Texas A&M 918 pages
http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED422486.pdf
[00:38:39] <tjtr33> this gov resource 'ERIC" has a lot of stuff
[00:45:23] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, maybe these optical tables are your kinda stuff
http://www.bmius.com/c-431-optical-tables-breadboards.aspx
[03:07:16] <Deejay> moin
[07:11:28] <skunkworks> hey - charles!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1A6IcJqJXA
[07:13:14] <XXCoder1> wish more videos was captioned lol
[07:26:57] <JT_PR> morning
[07:33:47] <Swapper_> morning
[07:34:00] <Swapper_> or / afternoon here :)
[07:36:16] <archivist> just afternoon and time to fix the washing machine grrrrrrrr
[07:39:47] <JT_PR> call the guys from "
[07:40:04] <JT_PR> secret life of machines for washing machine help
[07:43:11] <gonzo_> Tim Hunkin and Rax Rarrod? From memory anyway
[07:43:26] <gonzo_> garrod
[07:46:44] <JT_PR> sounds like them
[07:52:11] <gonzo_> I watched a couple of episodes last week
[07:54:49] <gonzo_> loved the home made fax machiine on the lathes
[08:08:45] <archivist> I hate the de-connect, drag to back door, drain and clean the blocked filter, reverse to refit.... and try again to get clothes clean
[08:09:16] <archivist> was rather blocked :)
[08:09:27] <jdh> I can clean mine in place
[08:10:09] <jdh> well. mostly in place. I have to tip it back 45-degrees to get to the filter, then slice my arm/hand a few times. Pinch myself with the stupid clip you can't get to, then reverse.
[08:14:23] <archivist> its the deluge that make me drag it out the back door
[08:14:59] <archivist> worst is the benches above that need clearing first
[09:47:11] * skunkworks hugs linuxcnc
[09:47:12] <skunkworks> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/fix-your-maho-thread-270525/index5.html#post2253156
[09:54:24] <skunkworks> pcw_home, do you see his comment on the ground with mesa hardware? (non differential analog output)
[09:54:34] <skunkworks> (works fine here :) )
[10:05:59] <pcw_home> I dont think I have ever seen a controller that has differential _outputs_
[10:06:00] <pcw_home> We do have the option of isolated analog outputs but the are seldom needed
[10:06:01] <pcw_home> (only if there is a severe ground loop issue)
[10:08:33] <skunkworks> pcw_home, can I quote you?
[10:08:59] <archivist> I just had a google and found images of what my 5 axis mill started out as
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/citizen_cincom_PT-120/
[10:09:05] <skunkworks> (what you just said?)
[10:09:42] <skunkworks> archivist, cool!
[10:10:21] <skunkworks> your google search brought back your own site?
[10:10:24] <archivist> I just found the model number on the microscope part when digging under a bench
[10:10:36] <archivist> no I stole the images :)
[10:10:41] <skunkworks> ah
[10:11:45] <archivist> same images on another
http://inv.automatics.com/q/webinv/000682=p,,0P3553,,p,,,10247841
[10:14:35] <pcw_home> Sure but I would add that good analog drives have differential inputs
[10:14:37] <pcw_home> and this is what provides common mode rejection.
[10:15:43] <archivist> I mean borrowed...seems that second set are larger
[10:17:57] <skunkworks> pcw_home, ok?
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/fix-your-maho-thread-270525/index5.html#post2253613
[10:18:51] <skunkworks> He has your boards but decided to go galil instead
[10:19:03] <skunkworks> (and camsoft)
[10:21:55] <jdh> 20% off plus Free Shipping with No Product Exlucsions
[10:22:04] <jdh> almost makes me want to buy somethign from enco
[10:23:51] <Swapper_> anyone using touchprobe here ? need to know a bit if its possible to calibrate the probe in software.
[10:24:18] <jdh> in what sense?
[10:25:20] <Swapper_> a touchprobe will have runout when mounted, but normaly on comercial systems you calibrate the probe in software.
[10:26:15] <Swapper_> renishaw have calibration rutines for comercial cnc controlls, i whant to do the same in linuxcnc
[10:26:57] <jdh> it spins the probe?
[10:27:33] <Swapper_> no it will not, its static
[10:27:42] <cradek> I have a precision bore (for calibrating a bore gauge) and I use that for probe centering
[10:27:49] <Swapper_> but the probe tip will not be axactly centric
[10:27:51] <cradek> probe it, turn the spindle 180 degrees, probe it again
[10:28:03] <cradek> then adjust the probe tip so the match
[10:28:07] <cradek> so they
[10:28:08] <jdh> without spinning the probe, seems like a chicken/egg thing
[10:28:24] <cradek> yes surely you have to rotate the spindle
[10:28:43] <skunkworks> heh - I calibrated our probe by boring a hole.. the probing..
[10:28:56] <skunkworks> *then
[10:28:56] <Swapper_> in comercial models you make a "rough" adjustment with screws then the last part is done in software
[10:28:58] <cradek> or if your machine is nice and repeatable, use an indicator to center over the bore, then probe it
[10:29:21] <cradek> Swapper_: you could measure and store offsets, and apply them to your proble results, but that's something you'll have to do yourself in gcode
[10:29:27] <cradek> probe results
[10:29:29] <cradek> can't type today
[10:29:47] <Swapper_> cradek: that would probably be OK
[10:29:58] <cradek> my renishaw has really good adjustment screws and I had no trouble getting it centered to my satisfaction
[10:30:02] <Swapper_> but where to start :)
[10:30:19] <cradek> start by adjusting the screws using one of the obvious techniques
[10:30:33] <cradek> then you might find it's good enough, and you're done!
[10:30:36] <Swapper_> i only have the probe part of a renishaw probe (no holder) so if i make one i guess it will not be a s good
[10:31:12] <jdh> if you can't afford a real probe, how accurate do you need really need to be.
[10:31:14] <cradek> renishaw will sell them to you
[10:31:19] <Swapper_> have any good design on a runout adjustable holder ?
[10:31:20] <cradek> I made the holder for mine
[10:31:32] <Swapper_> any pics?
[10:31:40] <cradek> yes use renishaw's design. they even have prints for you to follow
[10:31:51] <Swapper_> need inspiration, cant buy the holder since it will cost more then the whole mill :)
[10:32:03] <Swapper_> and the probe
[10:32:41] <Swapper_> on there hompage ?
[10:32:59] <Swapper_> the ones i found where mostly manuals and rough outlines.
[10:33:43] <Swapper_> http://resources.renishaw.com/en/details/data-sheet-adaptors-extensions-and-holders-for-probes--17942
[10:33:52] <Swapper_> where somting though.
[10:34:25] <cradek> which probe and how much of it do you have?
[10:35:23] <Swapper_> its a LP2
[10:35:28] <Swapper_> you mean how much it cost?
[10:35:50] <Swapper_> oh its the prob head and a FS1
[10:35:56] <Swapper_> now i got it
[10:36:08] <Swapper_> FS1 cover allready mounted
[10:36:47] <Swapper_> simplest would be to stick it in a simple holder and make the rest in software :)
[10:36:59] <Swapper_> But guess thats not the right way to do it
[10:37:19] <Swapper_> And then i cant get my head arround how to make a good rounout adjustment (in 4 axies)
[10:38:01] <cradek> even if you have software adjustment you have to get it reasonably well centered, right? you can't just glue it on any old way
[10:38:10] <cradek> I don't understand what you mean by 4 axes
[10:39:19] <Swapper_> if i have the probe mounted in the spindle dont i have to adjust the +x -x +y -y oritentation of the tip ?
[10:39:36] <cradek> yes and that's two axes
[10:39:50] <cradek> do you already have spindle orient and lock?
[10:39:56] <Swapper_> yea ok sorry, eng is not my native language :)
[10:40:13] <Swapper_> i will have servo as spindle so it will lock and orient
[10:40:17] <Swapper_> to index
[10:42:58] <Swapper_> simplest is to make a adaptor that fits in a collet > LP2 probe thread
[10:43:05] <Swapper_> But that will be no near concentric
[10:43:36] <Swapper_> and since the tip in it self is not per default concentric to the probe body i still need a way to adjust it
[10:43:56] <Swapper_> but looking for a deasent design for a holder
[11:13:43] <CaptHindsight> a few weeks/months ago tjttr33 posted a link of a pick-n-place project that started using Linuxcnc, anyone recall the project?
[11:14:26] <CaptHindsight> IIRC it was connected to the pick-n-place at the hackerpsace in Chicago PS1
[11:16:56] <skunkworks> was it this?
https://www.buildyourcnc.com/PickandPlaceMachineTheredFrog.aspx
[11:17:52] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlad7l9HvI
[11:20:16] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: I think so. I don't see where they have their mods to Linuxcnc, if there are any
[11:20:44] <skunkworks> I don't know if there are any - he is usung owords in gcode..
[11:21:57] <CaptHindsight> maybe they started using Linuxcnc and stopped, I recall tjttr33 had a link to their tree
[11:24:56] <skunkworks> Have not been following
[11:25:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_fd0X3--ws&list=PLF60EE5606562E2D1&index=22 @2:20 I see AXIS
[11:28:28] <CaptHindsight> how the hell can you have a pick and place made of wood? Did he never hear of ESD?
[11:32:13] <humble_sea_bass> thank you makerbot for making cut wood an acceptable machine tool structural material
[11:32:30] <humble_sea_bass> Makerbot: Infantilizing the things you care about
[11:32:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlad7l9HvI&list=PLF60EE5606562E2D1&index=5 also @ 2:20
[11:34:00] <CaptHindsight> G-code with if and statements + subroutines
[11:34:19] <humble_sea_bass> is there a bullet hole in his monitor
[11:37:22] <CaptHindsight> it could have been worse, he could have used a Pi or Smoothie
[11:39:06] <jdh> I like my Pis
[11:39:18] <cpresser> i like how the nozzle is used to feed new parts
[11:44:50] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's due to businesses wanting to make everything disposable
[11:49:10] <CaptHindsight> http://hackedgadgets.com/2012/12/24/269-high-speed-automatic-pick-and-place-machine/
[12:06:54] <Connor> http://www.bmius.com/p-39965-thorlabs-aluminum-breadboard-12-x-24-x-34-inch.aspx <-- Wonder how good of a tool pate / spoil board that would make for my router...
[12:07:11] <CaptHindsight> looks like the only quick way to have a demo machine is modify a router
[12:07:46] <CaptHindsight> Connor: it's only aluminum
[12:08:02] <Connor> Yea. I said router.. not mill..
[12:08:35] <Connor> the router is only made out of MDF
[12:09:44] <CaptHindsight> lots of holes for fixtures and clamps
[12:11:36] <Connor> Yup..
[12:11:46] <Connor> Need slightly different size...
[12:12:19] <CaptHindsight> check ebay. lots there in the lab/optics section
[12:12:43] <Connor> How good are those on flatness ?
[12:12:57] <CaptHindsight> new they are great
[12:13:43] <CaptHindsight> few microns
[12:14:40] <CaptHindsight> they are usually used with some anti-vibration system, some are even active
[12:16:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newport.com/RS-Series-Research-Grade-Optical-Tables/436017/1033/info.aspx#tab_Specifications here's an example
[12:18:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=159 this is the spec for the low grade Thorlabs plates
[12:19:35] <Connor> ±0.006" over 1 ft2
[12:19:39] <Connor> That's not that good.
[12:20:14] <CaptHindsight> hand lap it
[12:22:39] <CaptHindsight> Thorlabs isn't top end, they are like the TARGET of the optics world
[12:44:31] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:50:28] <CaptHindsight> so I have to finish auto homing with a camera and now add an image database, since they want a visual record of each part
[12:50:51] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello
[12:51:09] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[12:52:11] <Connor> What sort of camera you using ?
[12:59:18] <XXCoder1> I once read about using hockey pucks as legs bottom to lessen vibration
[13:09:43] <Connor> My mill is going to be bolted to the base with hockey pucks under it to give clearance for coolant, and hopefully absorb vibrations.
[13:09:59] <XXCoder1> cool
[13:10:09] <XXCoder1> so it's pretty sensive to vibrations?
[13:10:09] <Connor> Only issue is, it's a through bolt.. so, it might not help much.
[13:10:16] <Connor> My Mill? no.
[13:10:23] <Connor> Was more for clearance..
[13:10:53] <XXCoder1> router cncs?
[13:11:04] <Connor> huh ?
[13:11:21] <XXCoder1> is router cncs more sensive to vibration
[13:11:31] <Einar> Volvo 240 motor mounts. Cut off one of the steel plates, and you have a machine foot with a bolt. Just need a nut.
[13:11:35] <Connor> Just depends on what your doing.
[13:12:07] <XXCoder1> suppose its smallish cnc thats cutting 1 mm alum or so
[13:12:30] <Connor> Vibration is bad in general.. Can introduce chatter..
[13:12:38] <Connor> if you have vibration.. it's best to fix it.
[13:12:57] <XXCoder1> ok
[13:13:10] <XXCoder1> still learning a lot before I get cnc
[13:13:10] <Connor> I was talking about the optical plates above as a base plate for a FLATE plate...
[13:13:14] <Connor> to mill off of..
[13:13:21] <XXCoder1> flate?
[13:13:25] <Connor> flat.
[13:13:48] <XXCoder1> ok. thanks
[13:14:32] <XXCoder1> generally, cnc can cut thick alum if do it in some tiny interments? like 1 mm or so depth?
[13:15:44] <Connor> Depends on the machine, and the rigidity of it. But, any machine capable of milling alum should be able to do way better than 1mm
[13:16:23] <XXCoder1> ok. I really need to learn whats good feed rate and depth so on for various materials.
[13:16:41] <XXCoder1> don't want to waste time waiting cnc to compolete when it can do 10x deeper for example
[13:16:54] <IchGuckLive> Einar: did you get the features runing
[13:17:14] <Connor> They're are calculators that can give you the proper DOC, IPM and RPM based on materials and cutter type
[13:17:27] <XXCoder1> cool, thanks
[13:17:41] <XXCoder1> what kind of program? does cam software has em?
[13:17:53] <Connor> Some came packages have it.
[13:17:59] <XXCoder1> rpm is clear but whats ipm and doc?
[13:18:02] <Connor> some online programs.
[13:18:15] <Connor> Inches Per Minute, Depth of Cut
[13:18:26] <Connor> some standalone programs that cost $$$
[13:18:28] <XXCoder1> ahh yeah thanks
[13:19:05] <Connor> also, have to consider again, what your machine is able to do..
[13:19:33] <CaptHindsight> Connor: depends on the resolution or range of resolution required, simple webcam or $10K zoom microscope
[13:20:04] <Connor> CaptHindsight: You doing closed loop with camera feedback in linuxcnc ?
[13:20:32] <CaptHindsight> Connor: yeah, finishing that
[13:20:38] <XXCoder1> what happens if I set ipm faster than cnc can move? would it just go max speed possible or it gets screwed up?
[13:21:05] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Cool. I heard that the big issue with that is the amount of bandwidth needed by the camera.. and the fact that USB isn't Real Time
[13:21:39] <Connor> XXCoder1: The machine will move as fast as you have the Max Feed rate set too..
[13:22:00] <XXCoder1> ok
[13:22:06] <CaptHindsight> Connor: yes, some of the cameras are GbEthernet or firewire
[13:22:10] <Connor> But, you could also have other issues.. if it's not moving fast enough, you could overload the bit
[13:22:33] <Connor> and cause it jam up..
[13:22:33] <XXCoder1> by derbis from material?
[13:22:38] <Connor> yup.
[13:22:43] <CaptHindsight> you can use USB if you move slow enough
[13:23:45] <Connor> CaptHindsight: I have a $4 usb camera with manual focus that I got off of ebay for a spindle camera for edge finding etc.. manual.. but, would be nice to have a closed loop
[13:25:47] <Connor> Need to make a mount for it..
[13:26:01] <Swapper_> where do i set the jogspeed? i have managed (i think) to close the servo loop on my servos in linuxcnc but they barely rotate when i jog
[13:26:26] <Connor> Should be a slider in Axis for Jog and Max Feed
[13:27:12] <Swapper_> ah! max vel 59mm/min humpf need 5000 :)
[13:27:15] <Swapper_> there we go
[13:27:18] <Swapper_> ill try change it
[13:27:21] <Swapper_> ty
[13:27:25] <humble_sea_bass> use the <> keys
[13:27:39] <Swapper_> its at its max
[13:27:51] <Connor> Swapper_: carefull..
[13:28:05] <Swapper_> i have missed somthing in pncconf
[13:28:06] <Connor> Run Aways can be a b!tch
[13:28:19] <Swapper_> Connor: only loose motors
[13:28:24] <Connor> okay
[13:28:28] <Connor> Good
[13:28:31] <Connor> Much safer.
[13:28:40] <Connor> What type of servos ?
[13:28:49] <Swapper_> 2 yaskawas and 2 kollmorgen
[13:28:55] <Swapper_> sigma 2
[13:29:01] <Connor> What machine this for ?
[13:29:14] <Swapper_> my RF45"XL" mod
[13:29:55] <Connor> I would have thought you could have used some nice large steppers instead of servos on a RF45..
[13:30:04] <Connor> they can make things much simpler..
[13:30:53] <Swapper_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCBw4jiQMLs
[13:31:03] <Swapper_> have steppers on my X2
[13:31:24] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: do you recall the link to that pick and place project?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlad7l9HvI&list=PLF60EE5606562E2D1&index=5
[13:31:27] <Swapper_> mostly doin it for the fun of messing with this kind of stuff
[13:31:38] <tjtr33> checkin
[13:31:52] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: was it the red frog from the guy at PS1?
[13:32:09] <CaptHindsight> I recall you having a link to some software
[13:32:32] <CaptHindsight> red frog uses Linuxcnc and just gets fancy with G-code
[13:32:34] <tjtr33> http://openpnp.org/ ?
[13:33:11] <Swapper_> is there a global max velocity setting that cant be changed in pncconf ?
[13:33:23] <tjtr33> or webepiknplace.org :)
[13:33:56] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I reacll they were going to use Linuxcnc and you asked us to warmly welcome them :)
[13:34:15] <tjtr33> oh _not_ openpnp?
[13:34:33] <CaptHindsight> don't think so
[13:34:37] <tjtr33> i dont recall being so nice ( ever )
[13:34:43] <CaptHindsight> looks like they are writing their own new thing
[13:34:53] <CaptHindsight> yes, it was unusual :)
[13:35:34] <CaptHindsight> I can't believe the machine is made of plywood
[13:36:53] <Connor> I can, cheap, easy to prototype in.
[13:37:08] <Connor> and it's not exactly plywood.. it's a special type of plywood..
[13:37:28] <CaptHindsight> zap your parts before they are even soldered down
[13:37:41] <Connor> How so ?
[13:37:47] <CaptHindsight> ESD
[13:38:14] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_discharge
[13:38:48] <tjtr33> sorry my bkmks only have red frog & openpnp ( on this machine )
[13:39:00] <CaptHindsight> thanks for checking!
[13:39:36] <CaptHindsight> I was hoping I could find a quick demo machine using Linuxcnc
[13:39:51] <tjtr33> the was a nice machine at a boston area surplus, ZYA, like a vertical polar with a gripper, near 400$
[13:39:54] <DaViruz> wood isn't very bad esd-wise
[13:40:02] <CaptHindsight> I'll just modify a printer
[13:41:00] <pcw_home> Yeah I remember Van DeGraf generator plans that call wood a conductor
[13:42:06] <CaptHindsight> mostly cellulose and water
[13:45:57] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight,
http://www.bmius.com/p-6640-panasonic-panarobo-cm-with-panadac-271-driver-and-p-271-programmer.aspx
[13:46:07] <CaptHindsight> I picked up some used SCARA's recently
[13:46:38] <tjtr33> no z ? maybe gripper extension ?
[13:47:10] <CaptHindsight> looks like just Z and X
[13:47:47] <tjtr33> A base rotates ( i thin )
[13:48:03] <CaptHindsight> well worth it
[13:48:14] <tjtr33> and it would make a nice tool server for sink edm , yeah nice price
[13:48:36] <tjtr33> ooh teach pendant
[13:49:21] <tjtr33> so its like polar with vertical
[13:49:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bmius.com/p-36399-sherline-model-4000-mini-lathe.aspx somebody here might like this for $375
[13:51:38] <XXCoder1> that site has vaccum tubes lol
[13:52:08] <pcw_home> Fire Bottles!
[13:52:35] <CaptHindsight> a virtual cornucopia of fun stuff
[13:54:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bmius.com/p-6525-sylvania-6l6gc-electronic-tube.aspx the prices are higher than i recall
[13:55:04] <CaptHindsight> I think they still make guitar amps with those
[13:55:59] <pcw_home> Yeah US made 6L6s are sought after
[13:56:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bmius.com/c-250-benchtop-machines.aspx tool holders
[13:57:17] <tjtr33> lotsa nice tool holders
[13:57:25] <XXCoder1> It'd be fun to learn how to control CRT by computer
[13:57:36] <XXCoder1> Someone made REAL tny one and made it work lol
[13:58:22] <XXCoder1> http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/crt/crt6.htm
[13:59:30] <tjtr33> ols school light pens captured the trace position and translated that into xy ( a stick with an opto reciever on end )
[13:59:52] <tjtr33> simple, cheap
[14:00:02] <CaptHindsight> now we are using them (electron guns) to deposit metals vs just excite some phosphor
[14:00:09] <pcw_home> If you dont want to build one you can get tiny magnetic deflection CRTs from old camcorders
[14:00:39] <XXCoder1> capt what can be done, can be overdone. build large array of electron guns to depost print circuits lol
[14:01:07] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: we do it now with lasers and dlp's
[14:01:20] <XXCoder1> lol guess I needed to catch up knowledge
[14:01:34] <XXCoder1> fine, upgrade it to 3d printer status ;)
[14:01:42] <CaptHindsight> but e-beamed copper is possible
[14:01:58] <CaptHindsight> just more expensive than laser right now
[14:02:42] <CaptHindsight> but to make a simple PCB you have to print both the substrate (board) and the copper traces
[14:03:52] <CaptHindsight> neat site, I forgot about them
[14:05:13] <XXCoder1> yeah read once, lost link
[14:05:23] <CaptHindsight> lots of Boston labs must be clearing out equipment, I bought several linear servo positioners from that area for the 1/4 the price of new ballscrew units
[14:05:24] <XXCoder1> reaing about TEA laser now
[14:07:48] <humble_sea_bass> is Boston Dynamics movin>?
[14:07:59] <CaptHindsight> Google bought them
[14:08:33] <XXCoder1> NEMA 23 motor for $295 huh
[14:08:44] <CaptHindsight> servo?
[14:08:44] <humble_sea_bass> they did, just curious if they are staying put in boston or what
[14:08:45] <XXCoder1> "gearhead probably is why
http://www.bmius.com/p-39545-parker-ne23-005-lb-in-line-nema-gearhead.aspx
[14:09:24] <CaptHindsight> it's just the gearhead
[14:09:43] <XXCoder1> pretty expensive. whats it dpo
[14:09:56] <CaptHindsight> 5:1 reduction
[14:10:18] <XXCoder1> interesting. probably VERY accurate reduction too
[14:10:20] <Connor> So, spindle mount camera, or off set it and make it perma-mount ? Disadvantage to perma mount anyone ?
[14:10:53] <CaptHindsight> Connor: if it doesn't get in the way of anything....
[14:11:39] <archivist> Connor, there is always a need for the camera to see something you did not think of first time
[14:11:48] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1:
http://www.parkermotion.com/products/Gearheads_and_Gearmotors____30_32_80_567_29.html
[14:12:36] <XXCoder1> 3:1 to 100:1
[14:12:38] <archivist> Connor, like look sideways
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/cnccam.html
[14:12:42] <Connor> It shouldn't if I mount it behind the spindle.. my question is.. any issues with using it as center/edge finder with it offset ? Would it still need to be perfectly parallel to the table, or could it be angled so it's center point is center point of the endmill ?
[14:13:09] <CaptHindsight> it depends on your lens
[14:13:19] <archivist> and and
[14:13:23] <Connor> Of course, it might have issues if I run flood.. :)
[14:13:42] <CaptHindsight> can it focus on the center if offset or angled?
[14:13:55] <Connor> It's manual focus..
[14:14:00] <archivist> have you got a telecentric lens
[14:14:18] <CaptHindsight> $4 usb webcam
[14:14:20] <Connor> I have NO idea what that means.. it's a cheap $4.00 camera from Chine.
[14:14:22] <CaptHindsight> so unlikely
[14:14:23] <Connor> China
[14:15:01] <archivist> is the optical axis pointing anything like the direction you think it should
[14:15:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.edmundoptics.com/imaging/imaging-lenses/telecentric-lenses/ explains with examples here
[14:16:00] <Connor> archivist As far as I can tell..
[14:16:04] <CaptHindsight> Connor: can you get it to focus that close?
[14:16:21] <Connor> I had it focusing rather closely..
[14:16:24] <CaptHindsight> Connor: how will it handle different tool lengths?
[14:16:25] <Connor> maybe 1/2"
[14:17:09] <CaptHindsight> set focus with the same tool length won't be a problem
[14:17:30] <Connor> Really wouldn't care about that would I?
[14:17:33] <archivist> their telecentric range has improved since I last looked
[14:17:41] <CaptHindsight> but what if one tool is 1" longer than another? will it still be in focus?
[14:18:06] <Connor> Why would I care.. I wouldn't really need a tool in it to center / edge find...
[14:18:17] <CaptHindsight> I guess you could find the center and then ZERO and then put the tool in
[14:18:24] <Connor> Just thought it might be nice to not have to install the camera every time..
[14:18:54] <Connor> wasn't sure if angling the camera would be better.. or just use a offset...
[14:19:27] <CaptHindsight> either as long as it doesn't move in reference to the center of the spindle
[14:20:29] <Connor> Hmm.. I just had a thought, It might be too far away to offer good enough resolution if it's not mounted right below the spindle..
[14:20:40] <CaptHindsight> run the numbers, how close do you have to be to have focus and the resolution required
[14:20:55] <archivist> what accuracy etc
[14:20:57] <CaptHindsight> see what the depth iof field is
[14:21:13] <Connor> That, I don't know yet. I'll have to do some testing.. and to do that.. I need to mount it on the mill..
[14:21:16] <CaptHindsight> or just try it
[14:21:30] <CaptHindsight> you'll see if it's going to work
[14:21:42] <archivist> and then like me you give up using cheap sh.. and realise you need expensive
[14:21:50] <CaptHindsight> heh
[14:22:13] <CaptHindsight> shhsh you have to learn somehow
[14:22:20] <Connor> I have a more expensive camera I could use.. but, wanted lower end because I wanted lower bandwidth
[14:22:46] <Connor> I have a 720P Microsoft Live Camera.
[14:23:00] <Connor> but, this other one is tiny.
[14:23:34] <archivist> what resolution, one thou, ten or barn door
[14:23:36] <CaptHindsight> I remember when MIT had their yearly engineering contests, early on everybody was an expert, near the deadline the students became very teachable
[14:23:54] <Connor> I would like to get .0005 out o fit.
[14:24:11] <Connor> out OF IT
[14:24:39] <Connor> I'll see about mounting on the machine and making some reference marks and see how good I can get.
[14:25:31] <CaptHindsight> 720 x 0.0005" = 0.36" field, if that lens could resolve that small
[14:26:07] <Connor> 720 is the MS version..
[14:26:09] <CaptHindsight> and that's at 0.0005" per pixel
[14:26:11] <Connor> and that was 720P
[14:26:27] <Connor> this other one is a 1.3Mp camera..
[14:26:38] <Connor> with up to 640 x 480 I think
[14:27:07] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Digital_Zoom_To_Camview-Emc
[14:27:39] <CaptHindsight> http://blog.f1oat.org/tag/hd5000/
[14:29:56] <CaptHindsight> you're shooting for 12.5um, 125-250um is more realistic with that lens
[14:31:27] <archivist> I used the camera from a microscope kit and added my own holder and ex TV lens
[14:31:50] <CaptHindsight> "The optical resolution of the webcam at this distance is about 0.1mm per point. I have tried few pointings and achieved an accuracy better than 0.05mm. Surprisingly, that is better than pixel resolution. I think that is possible because we can see when the hole stands between 2 pixels."
[14:32:14] <Connor> OKay, forget the HD Live camera.. that's the backup camera for something else..
[14:32:22] <Connor> let me find a link to other camera.
[14:32:22] <Connor> brb
[14:32:47] <XXCoder1> 1 mm = 1,000 um ?
[14:33:43] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-30-0M-6-LED-Webcam-Camera-With-Mic-Web-Cam-for-Desktop-PC-Laptop-Notebook-v-/221297266507?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
[14:36:03] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: yes
[14:36:09] <XXCoder1> thanks
[14:36:28] <CaptHindsight> 0.001" = 25.4um
[14:36:32] <Connor> Hmm.. 300K resolution...
[14:36:36] <Connor> I thought it was 1.3MP
[14:36:39] <Connor> not .3 MP
[14:37:01] <jdh> 1.3M interoplated pixels
[14:37:38] <Connor> Okay.. So, what Can I expect to get out of that as far as resolution in .0001 " ?
[14:39:50] <archivist> add a better lens
[14:40:44] <IchGuckLive> im off bye
[14:40:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edmund-Optics-HP-TML-4-0X-Telecentric-Lens-Assembly-LEC-58432-/330939693992?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0d8afba8
[14:44:28] <CaptHindsight> LifeCam HD-5000 $49.95 and just follow their guide
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Digital_Zoom_To_Camview-Emc
[14:46:24] <Swapper_> do i have to set the table size so that linuxcnc knows the max travel ?
[14:46:35] <Swapper_> now it "moves" 8mm max
[14:46:46] <archivist> it is sensible to set the travel limits
[14:47:07] <Swapper_> im only dryrunning the motors, but i get extremly slow rotational speeds
[14:47:14] <archivist> the default in metric is silly
[14:47:33] <Swapper_> whats the value called?
[14:48:06] <Swapper_> max_limit= ?
[14:48:18] <archivist> depends where you are changing it
[14:48:26] <Swapper_> the inifile
[14:50:14] <Swapper_> how do i calculate the encoder_scale ?
[14:50:22] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis__lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[14:51:40] <Swapper_> ty
[14:53:30] <CaptHindsight> who carries those 4-pin XLR type Neutrik connectors at a good price?
[14:53:57] <GuShH_> china does!
[14:54:06] <GuShH_> but they're neuchink
[14:54:13] <CaptHindsight> lol
[14:55:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/XLR-Cable-Connectors-s/372.htm#
[14:57:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Audio-Video-Connectors/XLR-Connectors/_/N-778czZscv7?P=1z0wxp8&Ns=Pricing|0
[14:57:04] <jdh> are those good prices?
[14:57:29] <CaptHindsight> about the same as Mouser in low quan
[14:58:27] <jdh> do you see 4pin panel mount?
[14:59:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/REAN-Neutrik/RT4MPR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiV09DDig7boOLaCCNIf9ZXY0%3d
[14:59:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Neutrik/NC4MAV/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiV9y0EyfHsAgR7pvnemqmqdE%3d
[14:59:27] <jdh> I meant the other place.
[14:59:52] <jdh> I have a bunch of small almost similar connectors for my mill, but soldering them is a PitA
[15:01:22] <archivist> poor connectors were never designed for amps
[15:02:19] <theorbtwo> archivist: I wouldn't neccessarly go that far -- a speaker line can have several amps going through it.
[15:02:53] <archivist> they are usually used for balanced signal
[15:03:52] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-4Pin-Male-Female-Panel-Chassis-Connector-Kit-C146-/280762097083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415eb99dbb
[15:03:59] <archivist> I dont recall seeing them used on speakers
[15:04:13] <theorbtwo> archivist: Pretty sure I have.
[15:04:20] <humble_sea_bass> jdh: I bough a ton of these from this guy. took 2 weeks to get to ny
[15:04:37] <CaptHindsight> Rated current per contact < 5 A , so not for big motors
[15:05:11] <jdh> that looks like what I have. Might be bigger though
[15:05:15] <CaptHindsight> >5K mating cycles
[15:05:35] <jdh> my solder cups are all facing outward though
[15:06:05] <humble_sea_bass> what are you using them for?
[15:06:15] <jdh> stepper power
[15:06:28] <humble_sea_bass> little baby motors?
[15:06:41] <jdh> drives are 5A I think
[15:09:53] <humble_sea_bass> you might want something beefier
[15:10:50] <jdh> they might be 6amp. I have space and would prefer working with something not micro-
[15:15:19] <CaptHindsight> spring arrived here today
[15:15:45] <GuShH_> doing, doing, doing
[15:16:23] <CaptHindsight> there's green stuff under the snow it appears
[15:16:32] <humble_sea_bass> not here. I ate lunch at the park, it was a regrettable decision
[15:16:46] <GuShH_> were you mistaken for a hobo again?
[15:17:03] <humble_sea_bass> *again*
[15:17:37] <humble_sea_bass> can't a man sleep on a bench covered in newspaper and not be judged?
[15:17:53] <CaptHindsight> you guys get cold again next week
[15:18:03] <CaptHindsight> i was going to come back out
[15:18:09] <GuShH_> I think it was the peas can and the little fire that made them think you were a hobo.
[15:18:55] <CaptHindsight> don't you need a stick with a bag tied on the end of it to be official?
[15:19:09] <GuShH_> Nah
[15:19:18] <humble_sea_bass> trash can fires are highly regulated by the fire department and environmental protectiong. old ny is gone
[15:19:22] <GuShH_> That's how you carry your steppers.
[15:20:44] <CaptHindsight> don't you need a permit now to burn down an old building?
[15:23:01] <tjtr33> look at cooperindustries cam lock for high current connectors ( welding supply ) i use 'em for edm generators
[15:24:49] <humble_sea_bass> you can't do nothing without getting hassled for a permit
[15:27:22] <GuShH_> anyone into walking dead?
[15:28:08] <jdh> every morning
[15:28:10] <humble_sea_bass> i used to kinda like it, but the show just like the comic got old
[15:28:36] <GuShH_> I had a question about the side show, talking dead...
[15:31:53] <humble_sea_bass> those AMC after show things are overwhelmin
[15:35:50] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: I miss the old lower east side, bowrey etc. I didn't even recognize much of it last trip
[15:37:10] <humble_sea_bass> heh, some developers last week bought the salvation army soup kitchen's building down in the bowery
[15:37:36] <humble_sea_bass> they are going to demo it and make luxury tower or something. because fuck the homeless
[15:37:54] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they need to make more money is all
[15:38:44] <humble_sea_bass> Did you ever hear of "C-Squat" on avenue C (LES)
[15:39:26] <CaptHindsight> don't recall, C and between?
[15:39:29] <humble_sea_bass> my friend was one of the original squatters, back in the early 00's they sued the city for homestead rights and they got th e building for a dollar
[15:39:37] <CaptHindsight> nice
[15:39:55] <humble_sea_bass> C and 11th -- they used to have a mini ramp in the cellar and hold shows there
[15:40:43] <humble_sea_bass> anyways, more unaffordability
[15:40:45] <CaptHindsight> ok not too far from the park, used to have friends on St marks and 1st
[15:41:20] <humble_sea_bass> yeah fairly close to tompkins
[15:53:20] <GuShH_> tjtr33: is it possible to construct a simple fixed electrode edm to produce precise small diameter holes without getting fancy on rails, bearings, etc?, I designed one yesterday but I have my doubts.
[15:55:47] <Swapper_> darn its hard to get servos working...
[15:56:28] <GuShH_> it's not!
[15:56:37] <GuShH_> unless you meant servo motor
[15:56:56] <Swapper_> servo motor
[15:57:11] <GuShH_> then more or less yes
[15:57:13] <Swapper_> for some reason i only get .7 volts out
[15:57:24] <Swapper_> and if i tweak it all runs away
[15:57:44] <Swapper_> at higher speeds it looks like it stops counting encoder pulses
[15:57:54] <GuShH_> odd
[15:58:00] <GuShH_> some issue with grounding potential?
[15:58:09] <Swapper_> dont think so
[15:58:28] <Swapper_> but the tune parameters is confusing to me
[15:58:49] <Swapper_> max_output= 10
[15:58:56] <Swapper_> output_scale=-1
[15:59:06] <Swapper_> output_min_limit=-5000
[15:59:16] <Swapper_> output_max_limit=5000
[15:59:29] <Swapper_> encoder scale 9830.4
[16:00:13] <Swapper_> and i have 16384 line encoder with 1:3 transmission and 5mm pitch screws
[16:01:12] <Swapper_> i get that to 16384*3 = 49152 / 5 = 39321.6
[16:01:27] <Swapper_> ops wrong = 9830.4
[16:03:03] <GuShH_> you lost me at "parameters"
[16:03:56] <Swapper_> been at this for 3 days now :)
[16:03:56] <tjtr33> GuShH_, it has to move along a single line ( no lateral motion, where no means 1um or less else you disturb the process ).
[16:03:57] <tjtr33> it has to maintain correct 'gap' ( look up control theory of gap controllers, linuxcnc in not a gap controller )
[16:04:46] <tjtr33> the position is controlled by the process, so the 'in position on time' parqadigm wont wont
[16:05:00] <tjtr33> paradigm
[16:06:05] <tjtr33> to make round holes without soindle, i recommend tungsten carbide electrodes ( wires )
[16:06:13] <tjtr33> spindle ( damn )
[16:26:58] <Swapper_> PCW: Hi, i have some dificulty getting a servo to run, the servo runs away when i go over a cirtain velocity on the jog
[16:27:30] <Swapper_> is there any setting i need to consider if i have 16384 line encoders?
[16:27:56] <Swapper_> or is it all up to get the tuning right?
[16:32:48] <PCW> I would first verify that the encoder count correctly
[16:32:49] <PCW> are you sure you mean 16384 line? (that would be 65536 count/turn)
[16:33:28] <PCW> if you have 16384 counts/turn thats a 4096 line encoder
[16:40:13] <Swapper_> its a absolute encoder on a yaskawa drive
[16:40:44] <Swapper_> it says P/r 16384 in the driver
[16:41:23] <Swapper_> is it 16384 pulses per rev then ?
[16:41:54] <Swapper_> PCW: the servodrive can read the encoder since it can tune the drive and control it in step/dir
[16:42:14] <Swapper_> but i have no means to see if linuxcnc drops counts at higher vel.
[16:42:40] <Swapper_> its starts to runout on me when i go over a cirtain speed
[16:42:41] <PCW> not clear... encoders are specified in lines or Pulses/rotation but a 4096 pulse/r encoder has 16384 counts/turn
[16:43:41] <PCW> so how many encoder counts do you get for one turn?
[16:43:56] <PCW> (on linuxCNC)
[16:44:01] <Swapper_> hard to count :)
[16:44:04] <Swapper_> humz
[16:44:59] <Swapper_> i can set a PG Divider in the driver now it will output 16384 P/r
[16:45:03] <Swapper_> if that says anyting
[16:45:59] <PCW> I would not trust anything unless you can rotate the motor 1 turn while looking at the encoder.rawcounts pin
[16:46:47] <Swapper_> ok, let me try. Have to disable the driver to be able to turn it
[16:46:58] <PCW> you should be able to disable the drive and rotate the shaft by hand
[16:47:21] <Swapper_> will do, will the raw counter reset if i unplug the 7i77?
[16:47:27] <Swapper_> its no 0 now
[16:47:37] <PCW> no
[16:48:57] <PCW> you may have to subtract the starting number (or restart linuxcnc) to get a 0 rawcounts number
[16:53:01] <Swapper_> PCW: i get arround 6639 in rawcounters 1 turn
[16:53:09] <Swapper_> 66639 !
[16:53:34] <Swapper_> and 16384 * 4 = 65536
[16:53:38] <Swapper_> seems right?
[16:53:44] <Swapper_> its counting all the flanks ?
[16:54:34] <PCW> Yeah so thats going to exceed the 7I77s encoder max rate with filter on at around 900 RPM
[16:55:19] <Swapper_> i get 750
[16:55:46] <PCW> yeah the quadrature is probably not perfect
[16:56:11] <Swapper_> whats the best way arround that then ?
[16:56:22] <Swapper_> is there any point in counting on all the flanks ?
[16:56:36] <Swapper_> or should i reduce the number of output pulses from the drive?
[16:56:53] <PCW> lower the emulated encoder resolution and turn off the encoder filter
[16:57:20] <Swapper_> what is the encoder filter?
[16:57:22] <PCW> (first in the drive and second in the hal file)
[16:58:14] <Swapper_> ahh nvm i found it
[16:58:57] <Swapper_> would it be better to run my 6i25 in native 6i25 mode ?
[16:59:11] <PCW> What is the max RPM of the motor?
[16:59:44] <Swapper_> will probably not run faster than 3000rpm
[16:59:50] <Swapper_> but max is 5000rpm
[16:59:58] <PCW> (no real advantage of real 6I25 mode)
[17:00:30] <PCW> just slightly faster access (PCI part of bus runs at 66 instead of 33)
[17:00:45] <Swapper_> yea figured it could have somting to do with this but guess not :)
[17:01:39] <Swapper_> do you think i should lower the drive first and then the filter or both ?
[17:01:52] <PCW> so probably setting the P/R to 4096 (16383 c/t) and turning off the filter should get you to 6000 RPM or so
[17:02:04] <Swapper_> ok will try that !
[17:02:10] <Swapper_> Thank you verymuch!
[17:02:16] <PCW> NP
[17:05:51] <PCW> Its probably possible to run at that high (65536 counts/turn) a count rate at 5000 RPM by
[17:05:52] <PCW> tweaking some encoder regs but at 16384 counts/rev thats 0.1 u per count so more than that is
[17:05:54] <PCW> likely in the land of diminishing returns
[17:07:06] <Swapper_> hehe
[17:07:22] <Swapper_> but i guess i get deasent accuracy anyhow :)
[17:07:33] <Swapper_> its in the 0.000 region
[17:07:37] <Swapper_> mm
[17:08:56] <PCW> accuracy will depend more on your mechanics
[17:11:26] <PCW> that is how much frictional force is needed to cause a non-sensed 0.1 u deflection in your axis (or even 1 u)
[17:11:29] <Swapper_> ya will be far out from those figures
[17:19:48] <Deejay> gn8
[19:16:57] <Jymmm> What can I get from amazon for 70¢ ?
[19:19:39] <CaptHindsight> with next day shipping?
[19:20:21] <CaptHindsight> MP3's
[19:20:43] <Jymmm> something tangible
[19:21:08] <CaptHindsight> Google amazon $0.70 there's quite an odd list
[19:22:38] <CaptHindsight> who took my USB RS-232 serial adapter?
[19:23:00] <XXCoder1> plenty of cheap items with expensive shipping lol
[21:02:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370729400325 I keep coming across this. 20 HP spindle, 2-axis
[21:20:40] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: buy it for me!
[21:20:58] <GuShH_> if you ship it to my door I'll pay ya 5k!
[21:38:06] <XXCoder1> 2 axis??
[21:38:10] <XXCoder1> does it not have z?
[21:41:34] <zeeshan> hey
[21:41:40] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/D062D825-F512-494B-A0A2-DAA0A5C4C233_zps1hxbawdz.jpg
[21:41:41] <XXCoder1> hey
[21:41:45] <zeeshan> anyone know what kind LED that is
[21:41:49] <zeeshan> i need to replace one
[21:42:15] <XXCoder1> just curious whats it for?>
[21:42:49] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LED-PUCK-LIGHT-3W-COOL-WHITE-ALUMINUM-LOW-PORFILE-CREE-LED-UNDER-CABINET-/370731137526
[21:42:50] <zeeshan> one of those
[21:43:09] <XXCoder1> so one of em burned out?
[21:43:19] <XXCoder1> or just want change color or something?
[21:43:43] <zeeshan> yea one burnt out
[21:43:44] <zeeshan> =/
[21:43:52] <zeeshan> i accidently connected the wrong power supply to it
[21:43:54] <zeeshan> (dont ask how)
[21:43:55] <zeeshan> lol
[21:44:11] <XXCoder1> maybe check stats out using multimeter and maybe just find matching led?
[21:44:15] <XXCoder1> mA and v
[21:44:24] <zeeshan> the thing is
[21:44:28] <zeeshan> i dont want it to be a different color
[21:44:31] <zeeshan> this is 'soft white'
[21:44:35] <zeeshan> and its extremely bright
[21:44:37] <zeeshan> it was on my drill press
[21:44:43] <XXCoder1> ah yea
[21:44:52] <zeeshan> maybe i should change all 3 of them
[21:44:54] <zeeshan> so they match
[21:45:05] <XXCoder1> random colors for party
[21:45:06] <XXCoder1> jk
[21:45:09] <zeeshan> lol
[22:20:28] <p0st4L> anyone cut g10 here?
[23:33:28] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you can find those all over ebay, mouser or digikey
[23:34:26] <CaptHindsight> 3x so it's 3 @ 1W white LED's
[23:34:47] <zeeshan> i cant find em
[23:34:51] <zeeshan> not in that round bulb style
[23:34:58] <CaptHindsight> do you want cool or warm?
[23:35:08] <zeeshan> cool
[23:35:16] <CaptHindsight> you want just the LED;s or the whole thing?
[23:35:22] <zeeshan> just led
[23:35:24] <zeeshan> i need to replace one
[23:39:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/Cree-Inc/Optoelectronics/LED-Lighting/LED-Emitters/High-Power-LEDs-White/_/N-8usfj?P=1yzs6ioZ1z0ysw2 you can start here and pick your color temp
[23:40:39] <ve7it> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/131141988445
[23:41:13] <CaptHindsight> 2-3 week delivers but the price is right
[23:42:19] <ve7it> I just bought some red ones like that to build a bike tail light... they are blinding when run at rated current
[23:45:24] <zeeshan> man
[23:45:26] <zeeshan> you guys are boss
[23:45:35] <zeeshan> fucking awesome
[23:46:05] <zeeshan> ve7it: i use them on my drill press
[23:46:09] <zeeshan> they make a good work light
[23:48:24] <zeeshan> ve7it: got a u.s. supplier?
[23:49:19] <ve7it> shipping from the US is too expensive now.... I pretty much order from china and wait (3-8weeks)
[23:54:44] <CaptHindsight> p0st4L: making circuit boards?
[23:54:52] <p0st4L> no, multirotor frames.
[23:55:55] <CaptHindsight> what thickness?
[23:57:20] <CaptHindsight> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/5/6/1/0/8/a4118177-109-S8302731.jpg
[23:57:29] <CaptHindsight> something like that ^^
[23:58:23] <XXCoder1> quadcoper eh
[23:58:28] <p0st4L> .062
[23:58:44] <p0st4L> something much cooler than that, but ya... a quadcopter
[23:58:45] <CaptHindsight> common pcb thickness
[23:58:51] <p0st4L> yeah, well
[23:58:54] <p0st4L> .062 and .125
[23:59:51] <CaptHindsight> need a router?
