#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-17

Back
[03:12:10] <Deejay> moin
[05:44:02] <mk0> i installed linuxcnc-sim from git. but cannot find how to assign conventional icon
[05:45:15] <mk0> i have just a white rectangular instead :(
[05:48:40] <mk0> oh hell. sorry, got шею
[05:48:45] <mk0> it
[06:32:43] <MacGalempsy_> dude
[07:03:04] <Bushman> ave!
[07:03:59] <Bushman> silly question... what mode i need to set the LPT in bios to for the linuxcnc work best?
[07:16:21] <JT_> morning from sunny Puerto Rico
[07:17:08] <Bushman> morning JT_
[07:17:27] <Bushman> do you perhaps know the answer for my question?
[07:17:29] <Bushman> silly question... what mode i need to set the LPT in bios to for the linuxcnc work best?
[07:18:04] <JT_> usually you need input mode
[07:18:24] <Bushman> well, as in EPP? ECP? etc...
[07:18:41] <Tom_itx> try EPP
[07:18:47] <Bushman> ok.
[07:19:08] <Bushman> tho i think it just stop to matter to me :(
[07:19:26] <Bushman> i've tested both modes and the original problem still exists
[07:19:52] <Bushman> which is: my Z axis is loosing LOTS of steps in down direction in random intervals of time
[07:20:52] <Bushman> i have 1.5mm/rev screw and 200step motor... it randomly looses from 0.1 up to 1.0mm!!!
[07:21:35] <Bushman> i've adressed the issue of interference from my powertool but i've noticed it happens even when the tools is not on
[07:22:06] <JT_> what kind of drive is it?
[07:22:20] <Bushman> i've scoped the signals all the way to the driver chip and the levels are ok
[07:22:38] <archivist> what does it sound like
[07:22:38] <Tom_itx> try swapping axis?
[07:22:53] <Bushman> it's the chinese red TB6560 board
[07:22:55] <archivist> is the coupling ok
[07:23:13] <Bushman> Tom_itx: yes, i've tried that. i have the same issue on the 4'th port
[07:23:28] <Bushman> i don't know if the same happens on X or Y tho
[07:23:46] <Bushman> as in the compleet assembly + driver
[07:24:07] <Bushman> haven't noticed any errors in size on those
[07:24:24] <Bushman> and i was doing multiple passes on the same path (pocketing?)
[07:24:41] <Bushman> only Z make this thing
[07:24:53] <JT_> did you run a stepper test on each axis?
[07:25:07] <Bushman> i've made sure the screw and the bearings aren't binding or something
[07:25:10] <Bushman> JT_: yes
[07:25:27] <JT_> and they were sucessful?
[07:25:34] <Bushman> i've got a video ilustrating the issue. (please turn off the sound, it's just noise)
[07:25:53] <Bushman> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202650576618416&l=900662093453454518
[07:26:01] <Bushman> watch in HD
[07:26:17] <Bushman> my hand is shaking but at 0:13 and around 1:14
[07:26:27] <archivist> cant watch
[07:26:29] <Bushman> you can see it jumps lower than before
[07:26:37] <Bushman> archivist: why?
[07:26:41] <Bushman> blocked?
[07:26:59] <archivist> it refuses to play
[07:27:02] <Bushman> i've changed it to public
[07:27:04] <Bushman> try now
[07:27:26] <archivist> claims I need to upgrade flash
[07:27:48] <JT_> so was the stepper test a sucess?
[07:28:05] <Bushman> JT_: well, depends on success
[07:28:38] <Bushman> after initial stepper setup according to manual i've proceed to use my CNC with no issues
[07:28:52] <Bushman> i've noticed the issue after trying to engrave with V-cut
[07:28:59] <Bushman> the tool was going to deep
[07:29:02] <archivist> slipping couplings?
[07:29:06] <Bushman> i even broke one cutter
[07:29:25] <Bushman> i don't think so... the motor axis is rotated too
[07:30:17] <Bushman> also when i stall the axis on purpose i can hear the motor whinin and not rotating
[07:30:32] <archivist> remember the torque required to lift the axis is higher than to lower so lost steps will slowly get deeper
[07:31:14] <Bushman> yes but i've reduced the velocity and it still happen
[07:31:27] <Bushman> i've reduced acceleration, same thing
[07:31:32] <archivist> reduce your max acceleration and speed for that axis to get higher available torque
[07:31:45] <Bushman> i've done all of these
[07:31:51] <archivist> increase voltage and current too
[07:32:00] <archivist> get a better driver
[07:32:02] <Bushman> i just did an hour ago
[07:32:11] <Bushman> heh, better driver :D
[07:32:56] <Bushman> i don't have a scope with memory cause i'd see if the missed steps are related to my inputs :(
[07:33:14] <archivist> can your stepper even manage the torque needed, counter balance the Z weight
[07:33:40] <Bushman> sure, i was stressing it and it went up smooth in long runs
[07:33:55] <Bushman> it's the short consecutive runs that introduce the issue
[07:34:04] <archivist> its the short start stop where real stress is
[07:34:36] <Bushman> oh my... i gotta go to work... thanks for response! BBL!
[07:34:41] * Bushman is gone
[07:37:12] <Tom_itx> add a couterweight to Z
[07:40:04] <JT_> so you never did the stepper test?
[07:40:14] <JT_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Stepper_Diagnostics.html
[07:43:07] <JT_> see you guys later
[08:29:55] <cradek> 20% off + free shipping today and tomorrow from enco ($149 or more)
[08:36:27] <CaptHindsight> free UPS shipping, so packages up to 70 lbs
[08:36:56] <CaptHindsight> but they do show free shipping on one of the lathes as well
[08:56:31] <Valen> free shipping on a lathe
[08:56:33] <Valen> nice lol
[09:17:29] <R2E4> mornin....
[09:17:58] <mk0> ivnin )
[09:18:59] <R2E4> that too...
[11:21:39] <R2E4> pcw:
[12:20:56] <R2E4> Z brakes to hold the axis when power is removed, is that normally on the servo?
[12:22:54] <pcw_home> Yes normally part of the servo motor (power to release)
[12:24:29] <R2E4> yeah, I saw your post on the forums.
[12:24:58] <R2E4> Didnt know if 1.9v was normal, some reason i thought it was high for floating voltage.
[12:25:24] <R2E4> I'll connect the gnds later today.
[12:25:32] <pcw_home> floating can be anything
[12:26:17] <pcw_home> thats just 190 Nano Amp leakage into your 10M DVM
[12:26:29] <R2E4> cool.
[12:26:50] <R2E4> Getting ready to tackle the Z axis.
[12:27:25] <pcw_home> There may be good reasons to keep the field IO isolated (so a separate 5V supply might be better)
[12:28:24] <pcw_home> (next board spin on the 7I77 will have a isolated 5V supply available)
[12:29:24] <R2E4> When I went to program the mpg, I had no enc0
[12:29:30] <pcw_home> we have a little switching regulator for this purpose (8V to 48V in 5V out) Not on store yet
[12:29:52] <R2E4> Do you guys ever stop? lol
[12:30:01] <pcw_home> you need to set the 7I77 mode for the enc
[12:30:14] <pcw_home> (or 7I84) both can do it
[12:30:15] <R2E4> I had it set in the beginning. mode3
[12:30:40] <R2E4> I guess when I redid a pncconf it overwrote it back to 0
[12:31:11] <R2E4> So I spent a while yesterday trying to get itset. I put 030XXXX and I got the enc0, but lost the 7i84
[12:31:22] <R2E4> Tokk me a while to figure it out. i got it now.
[12:31:59] <pcw_home> if you set a mode that remote doesnt know it will give up
[12:32:06] <pcw_home> that the
[12:32:11] <R2E4> haha, yeah, like I allmost did.
[12:32:33] <pcw_home> if you are running master it has a specific error message (mode not supported)
[12:33:44] <R2E4> Anyway, i got it all setup. Gonna work on mpg, and then the X axis. I have the spindle servo to do and the toolchanger left.
[12:34:59] <pcw_home> toolchangers are often a bit of a challenge...
[12:36:03] <R2E4> there is one bizarre quirk and that is the position. I have all the inputs, limitswitches and solenoids and they all work, I tested them, so its doing the logic.
[12:36:26] <R2E4> However, to get to the tool change position, I have to travel through the limit switch.
[12:36:32] <R2E4> I found that a it odd.
[12:37:28] <pcw_home> does it have any kind of absolute encoder or do you have to do a full spin to find tool 0?
[12:38:11] <R2E4> It only had a coarse 2 prox encoder with no index.
[12:38:23] <R2E4> I installed an index prox
[12:38:35] <R2E4> Have to do a full spin max to get to the index
[12:38:39] <pcw_home> Hmm thats fairly mysterious
[12:38:49] <XXCoder> is there good guide to NEMA motor sizes and right uses for them?
[12:39:11] <XXCoder> I dont want huge motors when smaller is fine, and I also dont want kit that wouldnt work fr design I might go for
[12:41:26] <R2E4> I found the brake on the Z in the schematics. 90VDC
[12:41:46] <R2E4> that sucks.....
[12:42:02] <XXCoder> anyone know some site with that info?
[12:42:36] <R2E4> http://reprap.org/wiki/NEMA_Motor
[12:42:39] <pcw_home> 90 VDC is common
[12:42:47] <XXCoder> r2 thanks
[12:43:01] <R2E4> I dont remember seing 90v supply,
[12:43:20] <R2E4> There is 90 v tap off tranny though.
[12:43:26] <R2E4> I'll check.
[12:44:15] <R2E4> Do you usually have some type of timer after you enable the Z to release brake on Z?
[12:49:08] <pcw_home> It depends on how the drive is enabled. I suspect no delay is needed (enable should be very fast if electronic)
[12:50:02] <R2E4> I using ENA out of 7i77 energizing a relay and closing contact on the drive.
[12:50:43] <R2E4> Was thinking i could either use another contact on that relay for the Z brake or use the ready out of the drive to release the brake
[12:51:30] <XXCoder> ARGH! this page has "how to choose motors for function" but it's still under consection
[12:51:34] <XXCoder> http://www.cncroutersource.com/cnc-stepper-motor.html
[12:51:43] <pcw_home> That should work (just don't start homing until the brake is released)
[12:52:56] <R2E4> IS there a way in Lcnc to interlock that?
[12:57:41] <pcw_home> There probably is but I don't know off hand how to do it
[12:57:58] <R2E4> I'll research it.
[12:58:11] <R2E4> I'm startig to get the hang of LinuxCNC.
[12:58:39] <R2E4> Still a long ways to go, but understanding the basics takes a while.
[12:59:48] <pcw_home> Yeah you first need to understand the tools
[13:06:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[13:08:15] <XXCoder> wow nice http://www.amazon.com/Sherline-3700-CNC-Ready-Rotary-Table/dp/B007RPT8OA
[13:09:20] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/299769 http://imagebin.org/299770 http://imagebin.org/299771 this is how the cheap routers look right out of the box
[13:09:28] <archivist> XXCoder, be warned about the accuracy they claim
[13:09:40] <XXCoder> ok
[13:09:42] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: this is crap
[13:09:42] <CaptHindsight> used
[13:10:41] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: get a 90:1 worm gear and build your own
[13:10:54] <XXCoder> lol ok
[13:11:16] <XXCoder> I doubt I would need lathe addon anyway, want to get to basics first
[13:11:31] <os1r1s> XXCoder: I use one and am happy with it.
[13:11:42] <XXCoder> ich got any site that explains nema sizes and what is best uses for certain size
[13:11:59] <XXCoder> I understand sizes but not how to decide what motors to use
[13:12:29] <IchGuckLive> depends on tourche and mashine size
[13:12:44] <XXCoder> I know it does, but theres no informaton to help me decide
[13:13:09] <IchGuckLive> Nema17 is pulling about 5Kg Times by 10 at upwards size
[13:13:39] <XXCoder> so far theres no mount parts for nema for 10 series 8020
[13:14:14] <IchGuckLive> as yu go one size bigger the price will tribble
[13:14:16] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: you mentioned the price dropping later this year on some 3D printers. Do you recall the tech? SLS, FDM, SLA?
[13:14:37] <XXCoder> ich yeah I want balance, I dont want useless tiny cnc but I dont want huge $
[13:15:23] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: not on this there are 4 major patent sheeds runing out in augast
[13:16:09] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: do you recall which tech? There are new a and old patents all the time.
[13:17:06] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: asorry i cand recall this
[13:17:11] <CaptHindsight> plus the reprap folks have been spreading more rumors about how some SLS patents are expiring this year and how that will also change the world
[13:17:33] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: just wondering if you find out
[13:17:48] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: its not that easy i for example have 2 plasmas on nema23 for about 600USD and one on 1500USD same size
[13:18:02] <XXCoder> ok
[13:18:11] <XXCoder> seems it's nema 23 or larger or go home
[13:18:18] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: ultimaker is off and the free reprap
[13:18:27] <CaptHindsight> these routers must come from the dirtiest shop in China
[13:18:28] <XXCoder> nema 11 and 17 dont have much love with 8020 like mounts and such
[13:18:37] <XXCoder> or cleanest :P
[13:18:55] <IchGuckLive> on 8020 there is no way out of nema23
[13:19:06] <CaptHindsight> they don't even wipe down the parts before assembly
[13:19:10] <IchGuckLive> there is only a way on 48V or 70V
[13:19:24] <Bushman> ave
[13:19:29] <IchGuckLive> hi Bushman
[13:19:34] <XXCoder> hmm so its either build parts myself (ha right) or nema 23
[13:19:47] <CaptHindsight> and any fastener that is not stainless is already rusty
[13:20:02] <IchGuckLive> the 8020 is not strong enoph for nema34
[13:20:06] <CaptHindsight> or maybe red oxide treated :)
[13:20:09] <XXCoder> ebay ones any good? some are around over $200 or so while non-ebay tend to go $600 or so
[13:20:32] <XXCoder> for 3 axis kits nema 23
[13:20:44] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: you can start on low budget and replace with higher parts
[13:20:57] <XXCoder> yeah I wanted small cnc to learn stuff on
[13:21:14] <IchGuckLive> then start on TB6560 3axis
[13:21:17] <XXCoder> whenever I build larger version I can convert smaller one to laser or 3d print whatever
[13:21:26] <IchGuckLive> it will last for 2or 3 month
[13:21:49] <IchGuckLive> converting is not an option
[13:22:03] <IchGuckLive> Laser or 3D printer on leadscrew is crap
[13:22:12] <IchGuckLive> you need timingbelt speed
[13:22:24] <IchGuckLive> Milling is 0.01mm printing is 0.1
[13:22:46] <IchGuckLive> laser is the max speed ypu can get out of your sestem
[13:22:51] <IchGuckLive> system
[13:23:25] <Bushman> Tom_itx: i was thinking about adding counterweight or spring but i'm not sure if that would solve the issue cause the whole Z axis can still go up when i load it additionaly with my hand
[13:23:50] <XXCoder> something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3rd-Generation-Revolutionary-Professional-4-Axis-TB6560-Stepper-Driver-Kit-/181342504214 IchGuckLive ?
[13:23:53] <einar__> I want to try this: https://github.com/cnc-club/linuxcnc-features, but don't understand the install instructions.
[13:23:59] <Bushman> Tom_itx: so as it might seem it looses steps from weight issue it's unlikely
[13:24:00] <IchGuckLive> Bushman: why not balslsscrew
[13:24:12] <XXCoder> oh it comes with nema17
[13:24:19] <IchGuckLive> Einar thats tricky
[13:24:34] <Bushman> IchGuckLive: later... right now short on cash.
[13:24:40] <einar__> It says: "Move everything to /usr/share/pyshared/gladevcp/ Or better create links there: " Move what??
[13:25:28] <R2E4> einar link is broken due to the , on then end of it....
[13:25:36] <IchGuckLive> einar__: did you pull the git
[13:26:04] <einar__> Pull the git??
[13:26:08] <XXCoder> ich http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Axis-Nema23-Stepping-Motor-110N-cm-3-0A-4wire-board-TB6560-Power-for-CMC-mill-/281188392513 something like this?
[13:26:17] <IchGuckLive> einar__: you realy want to see no g-code only the crap parameter of this
[13:27:15] <Bushman> JT_ sugested this link... http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Stepper_Diagnostics.html
[13:27:17] <einar__> Does it not create Gcode?
[13:27:30] <Bushman> there a code down there that tests Z
[13:27:30] <R2E4> XXCoder, you really should desing your machine, then fit your motors accordingly.
[13:27:56] <XXCoder> r2 issue is I'm not too sure with frame size, and it HAS to be 8020, I suck on building
[13:28:08] <IchGuckLive> einar__: no you will see tons of parameters
[13:28:16] <XXCoder> probably buy few 24" 1020s or something
[13:28:39] <Bushman> althou i don't use this code i'm still doing pretty much something similar. i run the stepper config and use the "test this axis" button to run multiple cycles and measure it
[13:28:41] <R2E4> gantry style/
[13:28:43] <XXCoder> unless theres no way to build some sort of slide mechism wit it
[13:28:47] <IchGuckLive> einar__: it will do for a strait line maybe 15 parameter lines
[13:29:10] <IchGuckLive> einar__: i got it running here its realy a crap
[13:29:18] <R2E4> The slide bearings for 8020 are bullshit.
[13:29:31] <XXCoder> why?
[13:29:51] <R2E4> I have them, too much friction.
[13:29:52] <einar__> So what is the better solution?
[13:30:20] <R2E4> You can use 8020 but use supported rails. small machine?
[13:30:33] <IchGuckLive> einar__: git clone https://github.com/cnc-club/linuxcnc-features Latheparametric
[13:30:39] <XXCoder> so whats better way to make something move? yeah I think I'll use 24" beams
[13:30:40] <R2E4> with acme screws if you want to go cheap.
[13:31:12] <XXCoder> 1020 if supported, 1515 or 1530 if not
[13:31:42] <R2E4> 2040 is minimum I wuld go'
[13:32:19] <XXCoder> even as small as 24"x24" cnc
[13:32:34] <R2E4> table size or cutting size?
[13:32:36] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: why not going to homedepo getting some MDF and ready is your cnc
[13:33:07] <XXCoder> r2 beams come in 24" size on amazon so cutting size probably inside that
[13:33:15] <IchGuckLive> for testing cheep and it will mill wood plastic and small sheeds of alu
[13:33:50] <R2E4> Ich is right. probably best for testing and learniung
[13:34:23] <XXCoder> build out of mdf?
[13:34:51] <IchGuckLive> yes you will be impress what you can handle on that
[13:35:35] <XXCoder> hmm
[13:35:37] <XXCoder> ok
[13:35:47] <R2E4> XXCoder; https://www.buildyourcnc.com/blackFoot48v40.aspx
[13:36:08] <XXCoder> I probably would go for nema 23 anyway, can always build new framework for it
[13:36:50] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: this driver setup http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Axis-Nema23-Stepping-Motor-110N-cm-3-0A-4wire-board-TB6560-Power-for-CMC-mill-/281188392513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4178225e41
[13:37:11] <XXCoder> yeah I can almost order this already
[13:37:17] <XXCoder> just wait til friday lol
[13:38:24] <IchGuckLive> first upgrade XXCoder http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-4-Axis-Driver-2M542-4-2A-Breakout-interface-board-for-Router-system-kit-/250986991782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6ffd90a6
[13:39:03] <XXCoder> what does it improve? better control?
[13:40:04] <IchGuckLive> its about 100 times fuster and gives you the exakt power on 48V
[13:40:55] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: rails and more from our frind xing http://stores.ebay.com/xins-store?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[13:41:39] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: look at the items already inside the USA
[13:41:48] <XXCoder> ahh so machine will go faster after that upgrade
[13:42:12] <IchGuckLive> it will improve all to a realy working cnc
[13:42:21] <R2E4> hes got good prices on SSR's
[13:42:46] <IchGuckLive> sbr is ok for XXCoder
[13:42:48] <XXCoder> not bad. I can use basic setup to learn cnc and if something gets fried well its just $100 or so
[13:43:05] <XXCoder> assuming frame stays intact lol
[13:43:59] <CaptHindsight> someone just needs to start importing these iron t-slot plates for cnc kits http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/T-slot-cast-iron-floor-plate_128754238.html
[13:44:00] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: did you see the sqare flanches he has a power price
[13:44:21] <R2E4> \I dont see em
[13:44:51] <einar__> Point 4: "Change hal_pythonplugin.py in /usr/share/pyshared/gladevcp/hal_pythonplugin.py Add (find calculator add after :)):" What calculator?
[13:45:11] <R2E4> oh yeah
[13:45:25] <IchGuckLive> einar__: he uses a python calculator inside
[13:45:59] <R2E4> I need two 70" 35's to put on my x gantry
[13:46:15] <R2E4> 25's
[13:46:17] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: he got als a hamering LM20Luu
[13:46:50] <R2E4> They surplus?
[13:46:59] <IchGuckLive> here in german they will charge you 70USD for one of this on FAG
[13:47:10] <R2E4> hjow is he selling the hiwins at that price?
[13:47:11] <XXCoder> sbr used for moving gantry, but also for Y axis - router head moving left right on gantry?
[13:47:40] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: no gutra at startup
[13:47:41] <XXCoder> I guess screw drive of some kind is better for z
[13:47:45] <einar__> So I don't understand what the instruction wants me to do. I opened the mentioned .py file. Can I paste the import line wherever I like?
[13:47:58] <XXCoder> whats gutra?
[13:48:21] <Swapper_> anyone running yaskawa sigma 2 drives here?
[13:49:37] <IchGuckLive> einar__: no it needs to be after from features import Features
[13:51:04] <IchGuckLive> einar__: querry
[13:51:45] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: guntry ;-)
[13:52:00] <IchGuckLive> 3rd try Gantry
[13:52:08] <XXCoder> no qantry? how would it do Y and z?
[13:52:09] <Einar> I think I will drop the whole thing. If you say it's crap, and the install instructions are user hostile, I expect the result to be the same. :-(
[13:52:50] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: at test CNc move the X Yis fix to base and Zis on y
[13:53:27] <XXCoder> fixed gantry, moving bed? not sure if I understand you
[13:54:07] <XXCoder> got link top picture example?
[13:54:19] <IchGuckLive> Einar for me as a CNC freak and Teatcher id like to see some of my numbers reflected at the gcode but you get only parametrec output as it is a universal Oline
[13:54:44] <IchGuckLive> http://www.sammellothar.de/X_RAHMEN.mpg XXcoder
[13:54:51] <XXCoder> loking
[13:55:06] <IchGuckLive> this shoudt be your first setup
[13:55:15] <IchGuckLive> as big as you want
[13:56:00] <XXCoder> guess because its simplier to build
[13:56:29] <IchGuckLive> its a nail in a pice of wood design
[13:57:52] <IchGuckLive> the rails for a 6090 on that setup woudt be below 100USD on SBR20
[13:58:33] <IchGuckLive> 3foot X 2foot y and 0.5foot Z
[13:58:36] <Einar> IchGuckLive: I can see that. Just hoping to find something that enable me to make simple operations when standing at the lathe.
[13:58:52] <XXCoder> SBR rails right?
[13:59:15] <IchGuckLive> Einar: you can change all the pictures and items so i did as i then get gcosde
[13:59:28] <IchGuckLive> gcode Einar
[13:59:42] <IchGuckLive> you can do what ever you want
[13:59:54] <IchGuckLive> its a simple programing
[14:00:46] <IchGuckLive> its the sdame as a normal simple python it writzes to a internal [] and prints out to axis
[14:00:57] <IchGuckLive> so yu can fill it with your stuff
[14:01:40] <IchGuckLive> xxcoder write him a mai land see complete cheep kit
[14:02:10] <XXCoder> yeah can check into it later, and thanks!
[14:03:31] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: also look at aliexpress
[14:03:49] <Einar> IchGuckLive: I'm not sure I understand what pictures you change. Correction: I'm sure I don't understand. :-)
[14:03:54] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/ ?
[14:04:02] <IchGuckLive> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/314742.html
[14:04:51] <XXCoder> decent, thanks
[14:05:43] <IchGuckLive> Einar it simply calls the maker at the icon press so you can put inside the corresponding python insted of Oxx 100 lines limple G1 X#1 z#2
[14:05:55] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Anti-Backlash-ball-screw-SFU1605-L300mm-2Pcs-linear-guide-SBR16-L300mm-4-pcs-SBR16UU-BK12-and/314742_1138391486.html
[14:06:19] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: up to you how mutch you gone spend
[14:06:24] <XXCoder> indeed
[14:06:55] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: ths woudt be the Z axis
[14:07:02] <XXCoder> yeah
[14:07:09] <XXCoder> bit under 12"
[14:07:13] <XXCoder> 300m
[14:07:15] <XXCoder> mm
[14:07:22] <IchGuckLive> ktchk is the man in the store in Hongkong
[14:08:17] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: for a realy good PCB this woudt be 3 times that stuff and you are in business
[14:09:05] <XXCoder> PCB = make circuit boards? I doubt I need to do that
[14:09:36] <IchGuckLive> cheep and a good start that gives you a mashine that will last for years
[14:11:21] <humble_sea_bass> this aliexpress vendor is mad affordable
[14:11:32] <XXCoder> yeah retty good
[14:12:07] <IchGuckLive> keep in mind ali is not best qualety but it will work for 80% of things
[14:14:13] <XXCoder> yeah it could work for a while, if I ever get better job I would start building that large cnc kit
[14:17:34] <CaptHindsight> Price: US $50.00 / piece, Shipping: US $53.52to United States via EMS , Total Price: US $103.52
[14:17:41] <IchGuckLive> hi kb8wmc sankt patrics day did you mil a green pa6
[14:19:17] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello there sir
[14:19:27] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: I'd be leery of that price if I was standing at his door
[14:19:30] <kb8wmc> no milling today
[14:21:20] <humble_sea_bass> I'm adventurous when it comes to aliexpress items
[14:21:46] <humble_sea_bass> it is my vice
[14:22:00] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: did you see the pics of the routers right out of the box?
[14:22:24] <humble_sea_bass> the ones you posted? yeah, very grimy
[14:22:45] <CaptHindsight> yes, thats how those parts might also show up
[14:22:46] <XXCoder> probably have to be pulled part, cleaned and properly built
[14:23:13] <CaptHindsight> I've been in lots of shops where they sell parts like that by the Kg
[14:23:22] <humble_sea_bass> by round they mean "octagonish"
[14:23:27] <CaptHindsight> they are in big piles
[14:23:50] <CaptHindsight> often not kept dry
[14:24:25] <humble_sea_bass> you recon they are just buying piles by the kilo and making machines out of em
[14:24:25] <CaptHindsight> but the pics look really shiny
[14:24:34] <CaptHindsight> some do
[14:24:39] <XXCoder> ballscrew is better type right?
[14:24:50] <humble_sea_bass> the aliexpress pics are T1000 liquid metal shiny smooth
[14:24:55] <CaptHindsight> all the fasteners not stainless are "red oxide" treated :)
[14:25:27] <humble_sea_bass> i heard the red oxide finish is really taking off over there
[14:25:43] <humble_sea_bass> that "frontier" look
[14:26:28] <CaptHindsight> you order quality might depend on what part of the bin they pick from, underwater or from the top
[14:26:41] <CaptHindsight> so it's just a bit like gambling
[14:30:37] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/PROMOTION-3-SBR20Linear-rail-12-SBR20UU-3-RM1605-ballscrews-L350-650-1050mm-3-BK12-BF12-Ball/314742_1138389892.html
[14:31:19] <XXCoder> probabkly too large lol
[14:31:39] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: SBR20 will hanfle 400lbs
[14:31:57] <IchGuckLive> you need SBR12 to 16
[14:32:15] <XXCoder> thanks
[14:32:27] <CaptHindsight> I pick up at automation technologies so that I can leave with bearings without detents
[14:33:08] <CaptHindsight> I'd hate to wait 4 weeks to find out I got a bad set of bearings
[14:34:02] <pcw_home> Those are just audible motion indicators
[14:35:22] <CaptHindsight> oh yeah just like train wheels
[14:35:38] <XXCoder> shipping hurts at some items lol
[14:36:01] <XXCoder> sbr16 1300mm set+screw around $91, shipping $162
[14:38:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bloomberg.com/image/i3GzFFSgmJeQ.jpg http://www.greatmirror.com/images/medium/012956.jpg
[14:38:37] <CaptHindsight> http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/26394260/2/stock-photo-26394260-curbside-streetview-of-a-hardware-store-in-china.jpg
[14:38:58] <CaptHindsight> this is typical, but you can find just about anything
[14:39:09] <XXCoder> well http://www.amazon.com/SBR16-1000mm-Supported-Linear-SBR16UU-Bearing/dp/B00IW5MWFG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395084052&sr=8-1&keywords=sbr16+rail
[14:39:11] <XXCoder> not too bad
[14:39:45] <XXCoder> much less shipping too
[14:42:45] <CaptHindsight> often when you order rods, linear bearings, extrusions it comes from a pile, not from a neatly stored and wrapped package
[14:44:16] <CaptHindsight> my point is to find suppliers and build a relationship, then you'll get the better parts and deals
[14:44:41] <CaptHindsight> vs whatever they grab and put into a box that day
[14:46:26] <XXCoder> I don't think theres any local supply of those things here lol
[14:46:28] <XXCoder> but then hm
[14:46:41] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: where is your here?
[14:46:50] <XXCoder> washington state, usa
[14:47:22] <CaptHindsight> at least with keiling/automation tech you can return/exchange things
[14:47:30] <XXCoder> urls?
[14:47:43] <CaptHindsight> he does travel back to check on quality
[14:48:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
[14:48:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ballscrews-nuts
[14:48:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/bearing-block-rail
[14:50:17] <XXCoder> that store dont have sbr 16
[14:52:11] <CaptHindsight> 20mm is the lightest there, yes
[14:52:13] <XXCoder> wonder how easy it is to cut those sbr. probably not easy at all
[14:52:23] <CaptHindsight> I have some here
[14:53:31] <CaptHindsight> hacksaw
[14:53:41] <XXCoder> I have much to think about
[14:53:59] <XXCoder> my really rough esmate for basic cnc is $500 or sp
[14:54:13] <CaptHindsight> or buy used
[14:54:19] <XXCoder> I already has old laptop in mind for controlling it. my 14 year old laptop would do
[14:54:26] <XXCoder> where would I look?
[14:54:30] <humble_sea_bass> don't use a laptop
[14:54:44] <XXCoder> its desktop replacement type laptop
[14:54:51] <XXCoder> it was powerful for its era
[14:54:55] <CaptHindsight> try the latency test on the LiveCD
[14:54:59] <humble_sea_bass> don't use a laptop
[14:55:11] <CaptHindsight> older laptops are especially bad
[14:55:21] <XXCoder> whats issue with those?
[14:55:37] <CaptHindsight> SMI, ACPI, APM
[14:55:50] <humble_sea_bass> irq interrupts based on relative humidity, light, temperature and time of day
[14:55:51] <CaptHindsight> latops use an EC (embedded controller)
[14:56:12] <XXCoder> os older pc would do?
[14:56:17] <XXCoder> I havw that too
[14:56:22] <CaptHindsight> the EC can interrupt and pause the OS while it runs services
[14:56:38] <CaptHindsight> try the latency test on the LiveCD
[14:56:41] <humble_sea_bass> mini itx boards are 80 bux and are known performers
[14:57:06] <XXCoder> okay, I plan to before I run it on actual cnc
[14:57:42] <XXCoder> does linuxcnc has packages to make toolpath from model?
[14:57:48] <CaptHindsight> kill all power management, speed stepping, power now etc etc
[14:58:11] <CaptHindsight> no that is CAM
[14:58:14] <XXCoder> heh yeah that laptop was BAD on power management, turned it off as I got it
[14:58:14] <humble_sea_bass> you can use the laptop while you're getting things together, but once you go into production you'llrealize it is source of problems
[14:59:07] <XXCoder> cam software hmm what is good one for thaty
[14:59:13] <XXCoder> humble ok
[15:02:30] <humble_sea_bass> some folks here are finding that cambam is good for the money
[15:06:19] <XXCoder> Dunno if there alternates to SBR16?
[15:06:54] <XXCoder> Can SBR be mounted sideways or even upside down?
[15:09:45] <XXCoder> google says yes
[15:09:52] <Einar> They can, but load rating will suffer greatly if upside down!
[15:10:20] <XXCoder> interesting http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=261473&viewmode=author
[15:10:42] <XXCoder> yeah I was pretty sure upside down wasnt thing to do
[15:27:49] <XXCoder> that url taught me pretty lot so far
[15:27:54] <XXCoder> SBR style
[15:28:07] <XXCoder> I wonder about some stuff though
[15:28:43] <XXCoder> guys using less than full ponental area due to shorter rails AND gantry that dont have offset so bit can hit edge of workarea
[15:44:40] <R2E4_> This line for mpg net mpg-a encoder.0.phase-A <= parport.1.pin-02-in
[15:45:12] <R2E4_> If I am using pins 16 17 on 7i77 do I have to do the counts?
[16:19:50] <Einar> When I get to the G33 line the feed stops. No error messages, spindle continues running (at slowest speed). G96 is active and spindle speed will increase as I'm facing towards centre. My .INI and .HAL files can be viewed here: http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/
[16:20:23] <PCW> R2E4_: No, the 7I77 has a encoder counter (something.enc0 IICRC)
[16:20:48] <Einar> I'm assuming the problem is it cannot synchronize. What should be my debugging action now?
[16:21:24] <PCW> check for index working
[16:21:27] <humble_sea_bass> I usually cuss for a minute
[16:22:07] <Einar> PCW: With a scope on the UnivStep board input?
[16:22:31] <PCW> or backwards from hal
[16:23:58] <PCW> also motions index_enable pin must be wired to the spindle encoders index_enable pin (in HAL)
[16:25:10] <R2E4_> got it working. cool11
[16:25:18] <PCW> also check spindle_at_speed
[16:26:39] <Einar> PCW: I thought I am doing that in the 3 last lines in http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/univstep_servo.hal But I'm just fumbling around....
[16:50:44] <EinarLathe> Probably miswiring of encoder index. Fixed connection. Restarted. Plunged tool into workpiece. One threading tool scrapped. :-(
[16:56:13] <EinarLathe> But still no movement in G33. spindle_at_speed=TRUE.
[17:15:42] <cradek> does spindle-revs count upward 1.0 per revolution when you're going in the M3 direction?
[17:49:15] <Deejay> gn8
[17:49:50] <XXCoder> what kind of cam software do you guys use?
[17:51:12] <p0st4L> cambam
[17:53:12] <EinarLathe> cradek: It counts up much faster than that!
[17:56:26] <EinarLathe> And I found here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G33-Spindle-Sync that "The pins motion.spindle-at-speed and the encoder.n.phase-Z for the spindle must be connected in your HAL file"
[17:57:18] <EinarLathe> I don't think there is a encoder.n.phase-Z in mine. I'll have to go looking where to find it.
[17:58:20] <cradek> spindle-revs must INCREASE by 1.0 for each turn of the spindle in the M3 direction
[18:00:15] <Einar> I'll have to check again with the scope if my index pulse is connected to the right pin. It counts much faster. Which may indicate I have A or B to index input.
[18:00:49] <cradek> you won't have encoder.n with your hardware counter - that advice is for a different setup
[18:01:06] <cradek> that documentation isn't very great
[18:01:22] <Einar> Oh. Again. :-( For the umpteenth time.
[18:01:39] <cradek> you probably just need to set scaling
[18:01:51] <cradek> but yeah you might not be getting a successful index reset
[18:02:59] <Einar> Did you look at my .HAL files?
[18:04:47] <Einar> Hardware wise it's a full 5V square wave swing. Except at 3000RPM where the opto sensors are just about hitting their bandwidth limit.
[18:05:19] <Einar> 90 slits in appx 150mm disc.
[18:07:29] <cradek> so you need a scale of 360
[18:07:33] <cradek> (no I didn't)
[18:07:41] <cradek> you won't be threading at 3krpm anyway so that oughta be fine
[18:10:53] <Einar> Scale? I don't think I set that. The index is once each rev. I thought that was what it use for synchronization?
[18:11:14] <cradek> index tells it when to start the pass
[18:11:31] <cradek> encoder position (spindle-revs) is how it tracks the position during the pass
[18:12:15] <Einar> Then I have to figure out where to put that scale.
[18:12:41] <cradek> just set it anywhere in your hal
[18:13:06] <cradek> but if it's not moving you've got a second problem somewhere
[18:14:45] <Einar> I think I found it here: http://pico-systems.com/codes/univstepthread/univstep_motion.hal "setp ppmc.0.encoder.03.scale 6912"
[18:15:12] <Einar> It's moving now, but it seems it just scoots over as fast as it can.
[18:15:23] <cradek> aha
[18:15:38] <cradek> a wrong scale (counting up too fast) would look very much like what you describe
[18:15:58] <cradek> did you fix an index problem to make it move?
[18:16:36] <Einar> I had the index and one of the phases swapped. I'll try it with 360 instead of 6912.
[18:17:50] <cradek> weird, I'm very surprised it counted with only one phase
[18:17:58] <Einar> I'll have to try tomorrow. It's midnight here now.
[18:18:46] <cradek> is your ppmc modern or vintage?
[18:19:06] <EinarLathe> Thanks for your help. It seems logical with the scale.
[18:19:15] <cradek> welcome
[18:19:22] <EinarLathe> It's 1/2 a year old.
[18:19:23] <cradek> sounds like you are very close to having it work
[18:19:47] <cradek> oh ok, that's fine (very old ones had problems with index reset)
[18:19:48] <EinarLathe> Sn. 0142
[18:19:55] <cradek> goodnight
[18:26:15] <Bushman> solved the issue of lost steps on Z
[18:26:37] <Bushman> it turns out default current decay is not good
[18:26:50] <Bushman> i had to set to fast
[18:38:24] <R2E4_> evening
[18:41:51] <PetefromTn_> evening..
[18:42:12] <XXCoder> playing with cambam, interesting heh
[18:48:49] <R2E4_> hi-ya PEte
[18:49:21] <R2E4_> Everything working so far. MPG, external buttons, go to zero, quill up......
[18:49:41] <R2E4_> I've put it off long enough. Time to tackle the Z issue.
[18:50:12] <Bushman> Z issue!
[18:50:22] * Bushman 's Z issue is solved
[18:50:31] <Bushman> yay!
[18:50:46] <R2E4_> What Z issue were you having?
[18:50:50] * Bushman is being silly because of how happy he is right now
[18:51:02] <Bushman> R2E4_: lost steps in direction of gravity XD
[18:51:20] <R2E4_> Well, at least you have Z movement.
[18:51:25] <Bushman> even at seemingly low velocities
[18:51:30] <R2E4_> My issue is I dont have Z movement
[18:51:39] <Bushman> what's wrong?
[18:51:40] <R2E4_> What was it?
[18:52:22] <PetefromTn_> R2E4 Glad to hear it man...
[18:52:27] <R2E4_> I'm retrofitting a big ass VMC, and thats what I have left to turn up. but I am hesitant cause of the Z brake.
[18:52:43] <Bushman> well in my case it apears that 100% fast decay setting (in contrast to slow, 0%) solved the problem of Z dropping down randomly
[18:53:17] <R2E4_> Now I am aware it needs 90volts to remove the Z brake
[18:53:25] <Bushman> ugh...
[18:53:30] <Bushman> quite a lot
[18:53:41] <Bushman> pics?
[18:53:42] <Bushman> :P
[18:53:52] <R2E4_> of themachine?
[18:54:11] <PetefromTn_> I ran a Haas VMC all day today LOL..
[18:54:22] <Bushman> yea
[18:54:38] <Bushman> the brake pic could be fun too
[18:55:35] <R2E4_> haha, dont know where it is. In the motor I think
[18:55:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah they are usually built into the motor..
[18:56:04] <R2E4_> I have the last wire in hand and its marked.... ZBRK
[18:56:28] <PetefromTn_> ya know speaking of goto zero buttons etc.
[18:56:36] <R2E4_> The mpg is badass Pete.
[18:56:56] <PetefromTn_> It occurred to me today to compare the Haas control to the linuxCNC control while i was working on it.
[18:57:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah I love my MPG..
[18:57:16] <R2E4_> yeah, you have to do it via pyvcp and mdi commands, then tie the input to it
[18:57:28] <R2E4_> and....
[18:57:39] <R2E4_> Did they have a go to zero button?
[18:57:55] <PetefromTn_> One thing that the haas control has that is quite like what I was describing the other day.
[18:58:23] <R2E4_> Please do tell. I have 5 spare buttomns....hehe
[18:58:24] <PetefromTn_> is that they machines have machine coordinate system, work coordinate system, and OPERATOR coordinate system.
[18:59:00] <PetefromTn_> The Operator coordinate system is basically a DRO that is NOT used for any movement only strictly for measurement and setup.
[18:59:05] <R2E4_> ok, machine is G53 work is G54
[18:59:21] <PetefromTn_> Like touching off a circle center using an edge finder etc..
[18:59:24] <R2E4_> oh, so when your in it, nothing can move?
[18:59:58] <PetefromTn_> no you have hand jog control but you cannot program a movement without exiting the system.
[19:00:26] <PetefromTn_> It is really nice to use for edge finding and other measurement features.
[19:01:03] <R2E4_> So why cant you do that in work coordinates?
[19:01:16] <PetefromTn_> these machines I ran today do not have the auto TLO sensors or spindle probing they are basically just like my machine. It was nice to have something similar to compare to..
[19:01:50] <R2E4_> How come you got to do that? Who do you know?
[19:02:03] <PetefromTn_> well you can actually but if you have already set your work coordinates you do not want to change them...
[19:02:11] <PetefromTn_> whaddya mean?
[19:02:35] <R2E4_> Where did ypou play wioth the haas machines
[19:03:07] <PetefromTn_> well actually I recently visited this shop to see if they had any work they could throw my way to machine on the Cincinatti in my shop. '
[19:03:21] <R2E4_> Bushman: let me find some.... http://www.irmtl.com/vm40/L-panel.jpg
[19:03:32] <PetefromTn_> While I was there they told me maybe they would be able to give me some work but actually offered me a job there.
[19:04:05] <PetefromTn_> I told them I would consider working maybe part time for them and continue to work in my shop hopefully getting some more work in there thru them.
[19:04:07] <R2E4_> http://www.irmtl.com/vm40/tur1.JPG
[19:04:20] <PetefromTn_> So today I worked there for the first time.
[19:04:23] <R2E4_> Big shop?4
[19:05:21] <XXCoder1> cambam is pretty cool so far
[19:05:34] <XXCoder1> just made first object, its now figuring toolpath
[19:05:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah pretty big they got like six or seven large VMC's several turning centers, okumas and Haas. They also have a waterjet machine, some surface grinders, and wire edm machines as well as lots of manual machines.
[19:06:00] <PetefromTn_> XXCoder Yeah I actually quite like Cambam so far that I have used it..
[19:06:19] <Bushman> R2E4_: nice hotrod :P
[19:06:38] <XXCoder1> made 100mm by 100,, by 10mm square thing with large hole. took me bit just to fugure how to use gui
[19:06:55] <XXCoder1> how do I use cutviewer?
[19:07:53] <Bushman> R2E4_: man, that really IS big ass :D
[19:08:11] <XXCoder1> did I miss link from r2e4? drat
[19:08:25] <PetefromTn_> Cutviewer kinda sucks try using CNCsimulatorpro.
[19:08:34] <Bushman> R2E4_: my homemade CNC is like a toy compared to that XD
[19:08:54] <XXCoder1> lol ok, so I would have to install cutviewer? if so no wonder it just says file not found lol
[19:09:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah it must be installed but having tried both I prefer CNCsimulator pro.
[19:09:30] <R2E4_> PetefromTn_: Did you see the waterjet run?
[19:09:36] <XXCoder1> I guess pro one needs money
[19:09:44] <XXCoder1> R2E4_: mind re-link heh
[19:09:49] <R2E4_> Bushman: itscoming along
[19:09:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah I watched them run it a bit the other day..
[19:10:12] <PetefromTn_> no CNCsimulator pro is free but they bug you to donate etc..
[19:10:33] <XXCoder1> http://cncsimulator.info/ ?
[19:10:47] <Bushman> R2E4_: PM
[19:10:49] <zeeshan> justr download a copy of siemens nx
[19:10:57] <zeeshan> :P
[19:11:56] <PetefromTn_> BBL
[19:23:24] * R2E4_ is searching for the z brake in theschematics again.
[20:40:44] <MattyMatt> anyone in australia?
[20:41:52] <peepsalot> archivist, you around? i was told you know quite a bit about generating involute gear profiles?
[20:42:39] <archivist> peepsalot, I generate the profile, why
[20:43:50] <peepsalot> i've read a few descriptions of the geometry of involute spur gears, but only for external gears, i'm wondering how it applies to internal gears, and also to putting teeth along more arbitrary curves (bezier for ex)
[20:44:29] <archivist> for internal you use a shaper to generate
[20:45:35] <peepsalot> shaper?
[20:47:28] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuWnDpQR3q0
[20:48:26] <archivist> that method works for internal and external gears, hobbing only works for external
[20:48:45] <peepsalot> i want to make a javascript/web based design app, to output paths for laser cutting(or other 2d machinig: waterjet/plasma/edm)
[20:49:33] <Bushman> g'nite
[20:49:36] <peepsalot> just trying to understand the math and algorithms that would be involved
[20:52:12] <archivist> hmm a reading list http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=621.833
[20:59:26] <archivist> you only need learn the involute curve for that, that follows the curve, not generate the curve by the action of generation as performed in a machine
[21:00:43] <archivist> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Involute.html
[21:05:55] <peepsalot> well i think i understand the use of the involute curve for external gears, but i can't conceptualize that taut string analogy for an internal gear
[21:09:21] <archivist> think of a gear that is one to one but one is internal one external, a spline coupling but with involute for teeth,...the internal is the same
[21:10:13] <archivist> they do actually make involute splines by the way
[21:11:26] <peepsalot> hrm, ok
[21:14:36] <peepsalot> so i'm thinking for an arbitary curve, then generate an involute based on just the radius of curvature at each point along it, so i could make all kinds of weird shapes like the three lobed thing in this pic for example: http://www.samstoybox.com/toypics/SpirographBox86.jpg
[21:15:44] <peepsalot> but besides calculating the involute it seems there is a lot more to consider to avoid interference?
[21:19:35] <archivist> the contact remains correct for a pair of gears when you increase the centre distance, one of the strange parts of the curve, so a small undercut % gives clearance at some nominal distance
[21:22:16] <peepsalot> archivist, ok. does it make sense what i said about attempting this on an arbitrary curve?
[21:25:28] <archivist> yup, http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLihfuOMgTWQ60xbG50GXR4cT9igSgiCb-
[21:28:18] <Tom_itx> any practical applicatons for those?
[21:29:22] <archivist> variable speed motion
[21:29:49] <archivist> or toys like spirograph
[21:30:18] <Tom_itx> or other mechanisms
[21:47:07] <Connor_iPad> So, what are we talking about tonight?
[21:47:53] <skunkworks> I was afraid to ask..
[21:48:34] <Tom_itx> all i hear is crickets
[21:48:53] <Connor_iPad> I remember having one of those Spirograph when I was a kid.
[21:51:20] <skunkworks> so do I
[21:52:30] <skunkworks> then I wrote a spirograph program for linuxcnc ;)
[21:52:32] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Oword#Sample_3_loops_math_example_spirograph
[21:52:41] <skunkworks> (just to see if it could be done..)
[21:52:46] <Connor_iPad> How long has those things been around?
[21:53:52] <Tom_itx> they just don't make 'good' toys anymore
[21:54:41] <Connor_iPad> Erector sets. Rocked.
[21:57:02] <skunkworks> expert builder sets from legos where pretty good also
[21:57:16] <skunkworks> actually legos mindstorms where pretty good
[21:57:27] <Connor_iPad> Yup
[21:57:40] <skunkworks> learned a lot about gears :)
[22:00:28] <Connor_iPad> Yup
[22:04:10] <tjtr33> just saw JMK's fusee in a japanese clockwork doll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5zYK9FxORI near 6:25
[22:10:43] <Connor_iPad> tjtr33: Huh?
[22:16:14] <R2E4_> Hi guys
[22:16:56] <R2E4_> I have on my Z a brake that stops the Z motorfrom turning when power is off. It holds the Z axis where it is.
[22:17:33] <tjtr33> a fusee was done linuxcnc by John Kasunich
[22:17:51] <tjtr33> he wrote Hal
[22:19:06] <R2E4_> In the schematics, When power is applied to the machine it closes one of two relay contacts in series. The second relay contact the old control controlled it. When the two relays are energized, it sends 90vdc to the brake. I would imagine when the Z axis drive gets enabled it closes the second relaywhich removes the Z brake\
[22:20:38] <R2E4_> Myt question is, does it make sense to put it in a ladder so that when the machines-is-on start a timer for a few seconds then energize the second relay so it will give a few seconds after drive is enabled so the Z wont drop if they are enabled at the same time.
[22:20:58] <R2E4_> Does that make sense?
[22:21:00] <tjtr33> usually brake are off when they get powered ( a safety method, if you loose power, brake is on )
[22:21:41] <R2E4_> yes, it removes the brake upon powerup and control says to. Thats the way it worked on the old system.
[22:21:50] <tjtr33> so i dont hink "When the two relays are energized, it sends 90vdc to the brake" is true
[22:21:53] <R2E4_> two inputs.
[22:22:07] <tjtr33> could be
[22:22:31] <R2E4_> Thats the way it is in the schematics.
[22:22:54] <R2E4_> The two contacts are in series.
[22:22:56] <XXCoder1> someone made cnc out of lego
[22:23:05] <XXCoder1> foam cutter but still
[22:23:24] <R2E4_> So when power is removed, the relay falls out applying the brake.
[22:23:37] <R2E4_> Well, thats how I am reading it.
[22:23:41] <tjtr33> R2E4, then it makes sense ( had to re-read it withseries in mind )
[22:25:17] <XXCoder1> whats typical router bit diameter?
[22:26:33] <tjtr33> R2E4, making timers is not direct, can you put a lever/button switch on the brake that says 'i really am on, i really am off' ?
[22:27:05] <tjtr33> its like a piston with travel
[22:27:17] <R2E4_> The brake is in the motor
[22:27:35] <tjtr33> yah
[22:27:36] <R2E4_> I can have a contact when I send it 90 volts
[22:28:23] <R2E4_> page 41 of pdf, document number E2731-10-041-00
[22:28:35] <R2E4_> http://www.irmtl.com/cnct/VM40%20WITH%20SEICOS%20M2-MICON16-2.pdf
[22:28:48] <tjtr33> loading
[22:29:33] <R2E4_> AB being when power is applied to the machine, it energizes and DR3 is the old control giving its approval.
[22:29:49] <tjtr33> pdf is slow & big 6% so far
[22:31:06] <R2E4_> page 22 of the pdf shows the connections of the motor to BR2 and BR4
[22:31:14] <tjtr33> yeh your description sounded like 'i want it' and ' its ok honey'
[22:31:45] <tjtr33> 2 series contacts
[22:32:09] <tjtr33> jeez 35%
[22:32:43] <R2E4_> Having trouble my web server connections.
[22:32:51] <R2E4_> Centos...... jeez!\
[22:33:08] <R2E4_> no load, probably network supplier
[22:33:23] <tjtr33> im using wget to avid http-ing it
[22:34:47] <tjtr33> jst had multi hour talk to Taiwan and Australia tryng to resolve some specs, went from video conference down to chat line, everyone was dropping out
[22:35:22] <R2E4_> I have to change dists, not happy with centos. Their rsync is buggy
[22:35:48] <tjtr33> running linuxcnc on cnetos?
[22:35:54] <tjtr33> centos
[22:35:58] <R2E4_> nop
[22:36:04] <R2E4_> No!!!
[22:36:12] <R2E4_> Thats m,y web server at work
[22:37:01] <tjtr33> ok got pdf... p41...
[22:37:22] <R2E4_> I have just the Z axis, spindle and toolchanger to work out. Everything else is working, including 20 button contro lpanel and mpg.
[22:38:52] <R2E4_> p47 of pdf document # 41
[22:39:30] <R2E4_> 1A and 2A is 100vac
[22:40:45] <R2E4_> Those relays were on the hitachi p[lc distribution board. I ripped it out, and put in bankls of 7i77 and 7i84 relays
[22:41:06] <tjtr33> im there
[22:41:56] <R2E4_> There cutting both legs of the 90vdc
[22:42:02] <R2E4_> IS that neccesary?
[22:42:03] <tjtr33> morns,drawing a box around an idea looks like damn wires
[22:42:29] <XXCoder1> hm exported toolpath from cambam to ncsim
[22:42:36] <R2E4_> yeah.... I hate that, this manual is full of that.
[22:42:39] <XXCoder1> it dont look close to what cambam shows
[22:43:02] <XXCoder1> its supposed to be smiley but in ncsim it looks like abstract art
[22:43:09] <R2E4_> XXCoder1: did you select the emc2 post processor?
[22:43:17] <XXCoder1> lemme look for that
[22:43:35] <XXCoder1> in ncsim?
[22:43:44] <R2E4_> Cam p[rogram
[22:44:07] <R2E4_> IT has to create the gcode according to what machine you are going to run it on.
[22:44:31] <R2E4_> oh, ncsim, I thought you were opening it in linuxcnc
[22:44:34] <XXCoder1> ahh hmm cambam dont seem to give me choice maybe its in setting
[22:45:34] <XXCoder1> I dont use linux. in least til I got actual cnc lol just learning stuff about software see if I can hack it before I lay down any cash heh
[22:45:48] <XXCoder1> cambam is fun
[22:46:52] <R2E4_> cambam doesnt have p[ost for emc2 or linuxcnc?
[22:47:14] <XXCoder1> when I savetoolpath it just saves file
[22:47:15] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://imagebin.org/299769 http://imagebin.org/299770 http://imagebin.org/299771 Keiling router, no limit switches, "red oxide" treated fasteners, Y hard stop is the wiring, no anodize, etc etc
[22:47:18] <XXCoder1> dont see any option
[22:47:33] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/86307D91-3469-4E08-85B7-26471F0058BB_zpsprgmamcc.jpg
[22:47:40] <zeeshan> whoever suggested the vertical power bar idea
[22:47:41] <zeeshan> thank u
[22:47:45] <zeeshan> its much better now
[22:47:56] <XXCoder1> youre welcome. nah not me heh
[22:48:04] <zeeshan> i thought it was you
[22:48:17] <zeeshan> now i can mount a shelf where the powerbar used to be
[22:48:31] <XXCoder1> my suggestion was flip dust protect with foam for wire area, and lowered bar
[22:48:35] <R2E4_> zeeshan: no problem, its a public service and I'm gladto help.... lol
[22:48:39] <zeeshan> hahah
[22:49:09] <zeeshan> my garage is so dusty
[22:49:13] <zeeshan> i need to dust it
[22:49:19] <tjtr33> R2E4, i see ac rail 1A thru fuse F1 becoming signal 1A0 to contact DR-2 becoming signal A101 to Zbrake coil BRKZ to ac rail 2A. DR2 is on p53 "Standby Servo-On"
[22:49:40] <XXCoder1> zee theres design that uses big ass filter to really lower dust level
[22:50:09] <R2E4_> Thats for the dynamic braking.
[22:50:11] <XXCoder1> it uses air circution system filter, expensive type thats 3-5 inches deep and some ok fan
[22:50:21] <XXCoder1> lowers dust level good
[22:50:38] <R2E4_> 1A0 inp[ut into SEC1(bridge rect)
[22:50:43] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: https://woodgears.ca/dust/air_cleaner.html
[22:52:24] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, looks ok, maybe 10"x18" table (not very flat) what would you use it for? not DLP worthy
[22:52:47] <R2E4_> AB and DR3 the brake is ZBR
[22:52:56] <zeeshan> i dont do wood work much
[22:53:01] <zeeshan> its mostly metal dust ;p
[22:53:15] <XXCoder1> yeah it would only filter out fine dust
[22:53:19] <R2E4_> zeeshan: nice sandblaster
[22:53:30] <zeeshan> R2E4: princess auto special
[22:53:32] <zeeshan> lol
[22:53:44] <zeeshan> it leaked dust even with a dust collector on it
[22:53:51] <XXCoder1> new position or strip is nice
[22:54:05] <zeeshan> so instead of removing the metal pieces and caulking the joints
[22:54:10] <zeeshan> i just stuck aluminum foil tape on it
[22:54:10] <tjtr33> R2E4, ok the ac feeds bridge, and contacts AB and DR3 are rest of circuit
[22:54:12] <zeeshan> doesnt leak anymore
[22:54:24] <R2E4_> cost?
[22:54:29] <zeeshan> for the blaster?
[22:54:43] <R2E4_> tjtr33: yeah
[22:54:50] <XXCoder1> heh we got lucky, we have sandblaster we got basically for free. rather large one
[22:55:09] <zeeshan> R2E4: go get it!
[22:55:10] <XXCoder1> just need few new parts, its top cover is all kinds of fucked
[22:55:11] <zeeshan> its on sale
[22:55:11] <tjtr33> R2E4, but i dont see any feedback showing brake actually energized or de-energized ( actually moved )
[22:55:11] <zeeshan> http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Abrasive-Blasters/Powerfist-Floor-Model-Abrasive-Blasting-Cabinet/8046492.p
[22:55:16] <R2E4_> You see the AB coil; on that page. 1A and 2A is 100vac. DR3 is from the control
[22:55:21] <zeeshan> you have to 2 modifications for it to work right
[22:55:44] <R2E4_> There is no mechanical indication.
[22:55:51] <R2E4_> I dont think.
[22:56:04] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: i hate how sand blasters take so much room ;p
[22:56:21] <XXCoder1> yeah air pressure tank, the box, vacum
[22:56:37] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: going to rework it and true it all up, it's good enough for stepper and ballscrew 0.002" repeatability and micro-nozzle deposition
[22:57:23] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: but that's all you get for the $700 base price from Keiling, they don't even clean the parts before assembly
[22:57:31] <R2E4_> on page 55 of pdf document page 49 shows the DR3 bneing energized by the control.
[22:57:35] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: i didnt have my sand blaster groundfed
[22:57:36] <tjtr33> DR3 = "Z Brake Off" control line. I only suggested a positive indication for changing control over to linuxcnc. but my way requires changing ladder logic
[22:57:42] <zeeshan> man i got shocked so bad =D
[22:57:45] <zeeshan> make sure its grounded|!
[22:57:49] <XXCoder1> lol
[22:57:56] <XXCoder1> ill keep that in mind
[22:57:56] <R2E4_> I can do ladder logic.
[22:58:00] <zeeshan> bloody moving dust makes static charge like crazy
[22:58:28] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, yeah, my Sable 2014 was dead clean & square from Taiwan, black anodized, very heavy for same size. pleased
[22:58:42] <R2E4_> IS it worth to take the motor apart and install a mechanical indication that the brake is off?
[22:59:07] <zeeshan> i'd thinkso
[22:59:09] <zeeshan> :p
[22:59:13] <tjtr33> R2E4, i didnt say to remove ladder logic, but a positive indication would be an extra item
[22:59:23] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/T-slot-cast-iron-floor-plate_128754238.html ever see these imported here? they would be nice starts for DIY builds
[22:59:43] <tjtr33> the worth is up to you. right now sending the signal ASSUMEs the action has occured
[23:00:42] <R2E4_> I am having many mechanical guys telling me the Z wont drop that the threads on the ballscrew would hold it. IS that true?
[23:00:46] <R2E4_> Your opinion?
[23:00:52] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, yes, a cast iron bed would be nice, you cound send it out and get it ground, then jackscrew it to wright it
[23:01:03] <Connor_iPad> Aren't most breaks controlled by the servo driver?
[23:01:54] <tjtr33> R2E4, depends, but in my experience, one twist on that screw and it'll run away if it has any mass. ask Fenn, he and I had the Mazak do it.
[23:02:12] <R2E4_> ok.
[23:02:12] <tjtr33> brakes controlled by estop
[23:02:18] <R2E4_> IT is huge the Z on this thing.
[23:02:59] <tjtr33> heh i grabbed a bar and stopped it, pulled off my leather bealt and lashed it uo while Fenn got a wood block under it
[23:03:03] <R2E4_> or machine-is-on?
[23:03:38] <R2E4_> when machine-is-on = true remove brake.
[23:04:14] <XXCoder1> went for cutviewer, its processing file properly
[23:04:16] <tjtr33> the relaese-brake stae may be handled that way, the stop-everybody-right-now may be estaop
[23:04:17] <R2E4_> I do have a ready out of the drive that I can use also.
[23:04:22] <CaptHindsight> you want a brake on the Z with a ballscrew, if it doesn't the screw is bad
[23:05:13] <R2E4_> This Z has a 1.75 inch ballscrew
[23:05:55] <tjtr33> its the pitch.. high pitchis easy runaway, 1mm pitch ... you got a chance it wont always be ready to kill you
[23:06:41] <tjtr33> typical 5mm pitch, is deadly w no brake and heavy spindle
[23:07:14] <CaptHindsight> why would you not want a brake? save money?
[23:07:21] <R2E4_> If I use machine-is-on, then when estop is tripped, machine-is-on is false.
[23:07:44] <tjtr33> im off to dinner, l8r!
[23:07:58] <R2E4_> IT has a brake. Just trying to figure the logic.
[23:08:57] <R2E4_> The old control I ripped out controlled the Z brake.
[23:09:01] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, that frkn table is Mumbai... no way I'd buy Indian stuff, you think China is hard to get good parts!
[23:09:27] <CaptHindsight> just a pic
[23:09:37] <tjtr33> oh, good idea
[23:09:42] <CaptHindsight> t-slot curry is to die for
[23:09:47] <tjtr33> dinner!
[23:14:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Essential-Tool-T-Slot-Cast-Iron_1616655837.html
[23:15:34] <XXCoder1> price: $10. shipping $1000
[23:16:15] <XXCoder1> honestly dunno heh
[23:25:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.surplusrecord.com/cgi-bin/adpop.pl?704468 60" x 60" x 4.5" , T-Slotted Floor Plates, Cast Iron, 95 Available
[23:30:56] <XXCoder1> does linuxcnc has cut simulator
[23:34:27] <Connor_iPad> Yea. Itself.
[23:34:45] <XXCoder1> thats good
[23:35:12] <XXCoder1> cutviewer don't seem to read nc files from cambam correctly
[23:35:29] <XXCoder1> better than ncsim though lol
[23:43:09] <R2E4_> I cant use machine-is-on....
[23:44:45] <Connor_iPad> Why?
[23:49:44] <R2E4_> IF I use ladder logic I guess I can. When Machine-is-on and drive enabled timer 3 seconds then thurn brake off.
[23:50:13] <R2E4_> hit estop, machine is on = false brake goes on.
[23:51:03] <R2E4_> IS it sufficient to use classic ladder for that?
[23:52:41] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, hey that a great floor! i'm remodelling the kitchen and i bet nobody hast a cast iron tslotted floor :) and its local
[23:53:33] <tjtr33> XXCoder1, bot a cut simulator, a path view is all ( no stock visually cut )
[23:53:41] <tjtr33> not a cut simulator
[23:53:50] <XXCoder1> ok