#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-15

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[00:00:27] <sabotender> ive seen pictures with people using laptops with their routers. must be a prop or for decoration
[00:00:52] <Connor_iPad> Depends on the motion controller.
[00:01:08] <Connor_iPad> LinuxCNC. Laptop is no no
[00:01:28] <Connor_iPad> Others. Just send commands to a hardware based controller.
[00:01:52] <sabotender> ugh, that imgburn music scares the hell out of me every time. Even when I am expecting it
[00:01:58] <Connor_iPad> But that's out of my perview.
[00:03:44] <sabotender> just a moment
[00:04:55] <sabotender> so i might be stuck using windows
[00:04:58] * sabotender sighs
[00:05:28] <Connor_iPad> Go with the PII
[00:07:29] <zeeshan> i need help identifying some tools
[00:10:32] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: you will never guess the max jutter on this notebook
[00:10:43] <sabotender> its laughable
[00:11:14] <Connor_iPad> What is it?
[00:11:29] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/tools/FAB8C1A5-1DCB-4B85-972D-8F3356A1C0E7_zpsohbdxfpm.jpg
[00:11:32] <zeeshan> what is this micrometer for?
[00:11:37] <zeeshan> why does it have sharp as hell ends
[00:11:40] <sabotender> max jitter: 421687ns
[00:11:51] <zeeshan> sabotender
[00:11:53] <zeeshan> prolly wireless card
[00:12:03] <zeeshan> and video card
[00:12:10] <zeeshan> are you using a pci video card
[00:12:12] <Connor_iPad> Yo running the real time kernel?
[00:12:25] <Connor_iPad> And. Again. It's a laptop.
[00:12:30] <zeeshan> o
[00:12:35] <sabotender> you are asking me questions that I do not have answers to. I am running the live cd mode
[00:12:46] <Connor_iPad> Ok. The. Yes.
[00:13:12] <Connor_iPad> Laptops suck for real time os.
[00:13:22] <Connor_iPad> Power management. Etc.
[00:13:45] <sabotender> i'd test it on my server, but my server lacks a cd drive
[00:15:07] * sabotender frowns slightly. I suppose I might find a cheap-o PSU for that PII motherboard at the goodwill computer store, but I wouldn't be suprised if they hadn't thrown out their mid 90s crap hardware
[00:18:50] <sabotender> I think that the first thing I would make is a plastic case for my AVR dragon
[00:19:43] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: many many thanks for your help in picking out the components for the router project :-D
[00:21:17] <Connor_iPad> sabotender: Your welcome.
[00:21:49] <sabotender> the cool thing about this pII motherboard is that it has a parallel port.
[00:22:06] <Connor_iPad> Good deal.
[00:22:07] <sabotender> it's just showing its age, bless it's heart
[00:22:22] <zeeshan> pci parallel port cards are 25$
[00:22:24] <zeeshan> ;p
[00:22:32] <zeeshan> and come with 2 parallel ports
[01:13:41] <sabotender> wow its late :-P
[03:48:22] <Deejay> moin
[06:55:19] <jthornton> morning
[07:07:34] <jthornton> looks like the mid 80's in Puerto Rico for the next few days
[09:18:02] <PetefromTn_> Good Morning LinuxCNC crowd..
[09:36:54] <PetefromTn_> http://www.wimp.com/thenew/ Pretty cool if you are an F1 fan...
[10:08:44] <Tom_itx> was for a while but like nascar better now
[10:09:33] <Tom_itx> worked on a couple formula fords etc in the scca years ago
[10:14:50] <PetefromTn_> aw jeez never cared for nascar... I know unamerican right... No I much prefer watching F1 and I just love the tech stuff. I always wanted to get into cart racing too.. Maybe with my kids at some point.
[10:18:12] <CaptHindsight> you can get the kids into Cart for a few $K's
[10:19:02] <CaptHindsight> always used carts around from kids that are getting older or moving up to other classes
[10:24:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.worldkarting.com/
[10:26:12] <humble_sea_bass> road racing is better
[10:26:16] <humble_sea_bass> its ok Pete
[10:26:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know I would probably look to buy a decent used cart for them. Funny story we took my wife one time to a race to watch a friend run his cart and his kids carts. I was trying to show my wife how much safety equipment they have and how they keep the kids carts going slower etc. etc. She was like all enjoying looking at the girls carts with white and pink wheels and thier little pink racing suits.
[10:28:24] <PetefromTn_> Just when we sat down in the stands to watch the first race I was saying to my wife how much fun it would be and how we would be careful. The race starts and the carts start hauling ass around the track. Right on the third go around one cart gets a little loose going into the turn and the right front tire goes off the pavement and the guy hooks the wheel essentially planting the tire sideways into the grass and the cart goe
[10:29:10] <PetefromTn_> It hit a light pole and the guys head looks like he is dead or something. My wife looks at me with that NO FREAKIN' WAY MY KIDS ARE DOING THAT look and it was over LOL...
[10:29:40] * cpresser prefers http://www.wrc.com over F1 racing
[10:29:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.k1speed.com/ all the kids take lots of safety training first
[10:29:56] <PetefromTn_> That was quite awhile ago now tho and she is not so uptight about what they do now so maybe she would go for it LOL.
[10:30:41] <PetefromTn_> cpresser Oh yeah man I LOVE watching those crazy bastards go stupid fast in the dirt dodging trees hehehe NUTZ.
[10:31:08] <cpresser> hopfully this years german wrc cup will be close by. then i can go watching live :)
[10:31:35] <humble_sea_bass> i wanna go to the skip barber school
[10:32:00] <PetefromTn_> we don't have much of that exciting racing here in US. I mean they have US rally races but unless something changed it is nothing compared to the european stuff.
[10:32:26] <humble_sea_bass> we don't \
[10:32:27] <cpresser> i cant compare those, since i only know one side
[10:32:35] <PetefromTn_> we just go fast and turn only one way here it seems...
[10:32:41] <humble_sea_bass> NASCAR steals the spotlight
[10:33:00] <PetefromTn_> humble_sea_bass Not for me it doesn't..
[10:33:17] <humble_sea_bass> which is baffling considering that even the simplest road course is more fun
[10:33:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is..
[10:34:14] <PetefromTn_> I do enjoy watching the american lemans series races here.. I used to live not far from Sebring in Florida.
[10:35:35] <PetefromTn_> We also used to go watch the AMA CCS bike races at Moroso Motor Sports Park in Palm Beach too. Lots of fun.
[10:41:33] <zeeshan> someone help me figure this shit out!
[10:42:23] <archivist> we cant without better questions
[10:43:42] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/tools/E26B7CA4-9421-4564-9251-825141EFCEC3_zps2cepemgm.jpg
[10:43:44] <zeeshan> what is this
[10:43:48] <zeeshan> and what is it used for
[10:44:36] <archivist> you know some of us are blind to photocrappit
[10:45:02] <PetefromTn_> meh you don't need it, its a piece of crap just send it to me and I will dispose of it for you.
[10:45:17] <zeeshan> archivist
[10:45:21] <zeeshan> what ancient web browser are you using
[10:45:28] <archivist> firefox
[10:45:29] <humble_sea_bass> you got a good haul with them boxes
[10:45:44] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: yea man those are some of the pics
[10:45:52] <zeeshan> theres still a lot of stuff i dont even knwo what it does
[10:46:16] <zeeshan> the only thing i havent seen so far that i need is v-blocks
[10:46:31] <zeeshan> i was really hoping for some brown and sharp or starett matching pair blocks
[10:46:37] <CaptHindsight> more JS than HTML on photobucket
[10:46:54] <zeeshan> test for shaft run out on the surface plate
[10:47:02] <zeeshan> lemme upload to another host
[10:47:24] <PetefromTn_> http://blog.leatherup.com/2014/02/21/this-is-the-lotus-c-01-superbike/
[10:48:28] <humble_sea_bass> dat lotus
[10:48:29] <CaptHindsight> looks like a compass (angle measurer)
[10:50:37] <zeeshan> yea but whats it called
[10:50:40] <zeeshan> i cant find a part number
[10:51:23] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/299474
[10:51:46] <PetefromTn_> humble_sea_bass Yeah man looks totally wicked but is probably gonna be the most uncomfortable bike ever ridden LOL.
[10:51:49] <zeeshan> all it says on the wood box is 'starett'
[10:52:09] <humble_sea_bass> it also doesnt look like it can take a corner
[10:52:13] <archivist> bevel protractor
[10:52:38] <zeeshan> yay that is it
[10:52:43] <zeeshan> there is a video for it
[10:52:45] <PetefromTn_> that front wheel is WAY out there huh...
[10:52:50] <archivist> angle measuring/marking out
[10:53:25] <archivist> I have an optical one by Zeiss
[10:53:40] <zeeshan> so you mainly use it to measure angle between surfaces?
[10:53:44] <zeeshan> ie planes
[10:53:45] <PetefromTn_> supposed to be inspired by the tron lightcycle.
[10:54:00] <archivist> or marking out on a surface
[10:54:01] <CaptHindsight> that bike looks like a camera with wheels
[10:55:08] <zeeshan> ah so i have 2 blades
[10:55:14] <zeeshan> and one small back face blade
[10:55:38] <PetefromTn_> whats funny to me is that it has this MASSIVE swingarm like the most modern sport and race bikes but they put dual shocks on it.... kinda spits in the face of technology LOL
[10:56:00] <PetefromTn_> perhaps that was the point.
[10:56:27] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJFUI_FHlio
[10:56:30] <zeeshan> video on how to use it
[10:56:47] <zeeshan> this can be useful for setup
[10:56:52] <CaptHindsight> maybe more shock dampening in two small ones vs one big one
[10:58:02] <PetefromTn_> Also looks like it would be an electric bike with all that plastic covering batteries etc but it says it is gonna be a 200hp four in it. I don't see any pipes!!
[10:59:27] <CaptHindsight> http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/668x449+170+64/resize/628x417!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/adam/2cc435ab5b5e7b1f45313879bdbe15f0/Lotus-C-01-03.jpg with training wheels :)
[11:00:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Qgg0taw.jpg
[11:00:12] <zeeshan> starrett calls this a 'indicator hole attachment'
[11:00:14] <zeeshan> how do you use it
[11:00:49] <PetefromTn_> oh wait there is a pipe coming out the right side bottom my bad LOL.
[11:01:13] <archivist> zeeshan, fits onto a dti probably
[11:01:39] <zeeshan> is it converting a vertical indicator
[11:01:41] <zeeshan> in a horizontal one?
[11:01:48] <zeeshan> *into
[11:01:53] <archivist> does 90 deg and lets you indicate a hole in a 4 jaw
[11:01:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.damngeeky.com/wp-content/gallery/lotus-motorcyles-c-01/lotus-c-01-superbike-motorcycle_6.jpg
[11:02:11] <zeeshan> ahh
[11:02:14] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuCjHXLHGUk BEAUTIFUL!!
[11:02:17] <zeeshan> so you clamp that left side
[11:02:24] <zeeshan> onto the indicator
[11:02:30] <archivist> yes
[11:02:34] <zeeshan> and that lever just pivots
[11:02:35] <zeeshan> makes sense
[11:02:53] <zeeshan> sorry i got a few more
[11:02:55] <zeeshan> to figure out
[11:02:57] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZAmaTCl.jpg
[11:03:03] <zeeshan> whats that tool in the middle
[11:03:15] <zeeshan> when you press the red button/lever
[11:03:25] <zeeshan> it opens up the micrometer looking jaws
[11:03:34] <archivist> digital micrometer/thickness
[11:03:49] <archivist> any toys like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_13_comparator/IMG_1678.JPG
[11:04:04] <zeeshan> yes
[11:04:17] <zeeshan> so i use it for measurements for thickness of pipes
[11:04:24] <zeeshan> but he gav eme this one too
[11:04:25] <zeeshan> which is for that:
[11:04:33] <zeeshan> archivist yes i got that
[11:04:56] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/XL1IH42.jpg
[11:05:00] <zeeshan> see i got this tool
[11:05:06] <zeeshan> i was readin gbaout it more
[11:05:10] <zeeshan> its for the same purpose as measuring thickness
[11:05:12] <CaptHindsight> early legos? before they snapped together?
[11:05:24] <zeeshan> but apparently you can put your own custom anvils by unscrewing that knob
[11:05:30] <zeeshan> and measure thread depths very precisely.
[11:05:43] <archivist> threads/gears
[11:05:57] <zeeshan> i dont see how you'd use that for gears
[11:06:01] <zeeshan> unless it's very small gears
[11:06:07] <PetefromTn_> humble_sea_bass Hey man you're FAMOUS!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrjrCrKwJp8
[11:06:09] <archivist> although you often see thread wires for normal micrometers
[11:06:41] <zeeshan> archisvist
[11:06:43] <zeeshan> here's the gauge block set
[11:06:44] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/tT2Powg.jpg
[11:07:10] <zeeshan> starrett
[11:07:16] <archivist> I want that dumont set in the middle :)
[11:07:36] <zeeshan> that set is okay
[11:07:39] <zeeshan> but it only goes to 1/8
[11:07:54] <zeeshan> i usually deal with 1/4" and 3/16" keyways
[11:07:57] <zeeshan> trade for those :D
[11:07:59] <archivist> I happen to have probably that set
[11:08:15] <zeeshan> in that pic is a depth gauge too
[11:08:22] <zeeshan> i dont know why there are so many attachments for it
[11:08:55] <archivist> depth only do an inch range so you change the bar
[11:09:04] <zeeshan> ah
[11:09:22] <zeeshan> so this one is meant for really deep features
[11:09:28] <archivist> sets are often incomplete
[11:09:35] <zeeshan> maybe i can buy different attachments from starrett
[11:09:41] <zeeshan> to measure for ranges i usually work with
[11:09:52] <humble_sea_bass> where is my fame
[11:10:15] <zeeshan> that mitutoyo micrometer in this pic is apparently used to measure 'groove depth's
[11:10:19] <archivist> go through and see how complete it is, cant see from that image
[11:10:20] <zeeshan> cause of that fine point type of anvils
[11:11:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/nJRk3nQ.jpg
[11:11:23] <zeeshan> standard stuff
[11:11:31] <humble_sea_bass> oh there it is
[11:11:37] <zeeshan> mitutoyo 0.001 and 0.0005" indiciators
[11:11:38] <archivist> red package at top real small bore set?
[11:11:44] <archivist> rear
[11:11:46] <zeeshan> (test dial)
[11:11:50] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: did you buy it all from an estate sale?
[11:11:57] <zeeshan> and fowlwer plunger indicators 0.001 0.0005
[11:12:01] <zeeshan> and 2 chinese long travel
[11:12:03] <humble_sea_bass> he stole my iracing color scheme too
[11:12:19] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: no from a machinist who no longer is a machinist and is a mill wright too
[11:12:20] <zeeshan> guy was 33
[11:12:33] <zeeshan> had this stuff sitting around for 2 yuears taking up his storage space
[11:12:43] <zeeshan> archivist: yes starrett small hole gauge
[11:12:44] <archivist> 33, too young to get rid
[11:12:56] <zeeshan> plus going througfh divorce =/
[11:13:01] <archivist> ah
[11:13:09] <zeeshan> okay
[11:13:09] <archivist> fire sale
[11:13:15] <zeeshan> this is what made me seal the deal
[11:13:22] <zeeshan> theres is so much s tuff
[11:13:26] <zeeshan> but this particularly caught my eye
[11:13:27] <CaptHindsight> ex wife not a machinist I reckon
[11:13:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/nME1kBB.jpg
[11:13:51] <zeeshan> mitsibushi/iscar/sandvik tool holders
[11:13:54] <PetefromTn_> its just total theivery huh...
[11:14:11] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/uba35aP.jpg
[11:14:19] <zeeshan> tons and tons of inserts everywhere
[11:14:22] <zeeshan> i still gotta organize em
[11:14:49] <zeeshan> anyone need a mitutoyo 7-8" mic? :P
[11:14:52] <zeeshan> i'll never be using it
[11:15:03] <archivist> never...you never know
[11:15:05] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/sOXUf <- album
[11:15:14] <CaptHindsight> I once bought a Cincinnati mill from and old machinist, before I left he showed me this box of holders, end mills and carbides worth thousands....
[11:15:22] <zeeshan> ive never mounted something 8" wide in the lathe
[11:15:23] <zeeshan> lol
[11:15:31] <CaptHindsight> he said "how about this for an extra $100"?
[11:15:44] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i havent posted the stuff that was 'extra for 50'
[11:16:01] <zeeshan> he said 'it needs to be gone by friday'
[11:16:21] <humble_sea_bass> you have hit the proverbial motherload
[11:16:22] <zeeshan> 'if you can do that and give me $1350 total, you can have it all'
[11:16:46] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: i've been searching for this on kijiji for 1 year
[11:16:54] <archivist> I love collections and the "extras"
[11:17:03] <zeeshan> every night before bed i searched 'machinst tools' and 'tool and die maker tools'
[11:17:11] <zeeshan> i caught this 1 hour after it was posted
[11:17:21] <zeeshan> i tested that dial bore gauge
[11:17:46] <zeeshan> its so much better than using an inside micrometer or telescoping gauges with outside micrometer (which is what i've been doing for making the bores of the steam engine)
[11:17:56] <CaptHindsight> yeah, the best deals have been the new posts and you call minutes after
[11:18:04] <archivist> went for a stero zoom microscope and came back with an extra spectrum analyser
[11:18:15] <zeeshan> archivist: haha
[11:18:32] <archivist> and a few other bit
[11:18:36] <humble_sea_bass> any interapids in there
[11:18:54] <zeeshan> the extra stuff for me was end mills, 4 organizers filled with brand new pipe fittings, pneumatic fittings, hydraulic fititngs, electrical fittings (mostly from his old mill wright work)
[11:19:02] <zeeshan> and 150lb of aluminum
[11:19:41] <zeeshan> the only import thing i can find those 2 long range dial indicators
[11:19:48] <zeeshan> and the outside micrometers
[11:19:56] <zeeshan> i tested them on the gauge block and they're spot on
[11:21:52] <CaptHindsight> I picked up another robot deal, it didn't make a peep the whole 4 hour drive back
[11:22:02] <zeeshan> what kind of robot
[11:22:12] <CaptHindsight> SCARA
[11:22:21] <zeeshan> the one with the broken casting?
[11:22:38] <zeeshan> archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_13_comparator/IMG_1678.JPG
[11:22:41] <zeeshan> whats that stuff on the top?
[11:22:41] <CaptHindsight> yeah, that one 2 weeks ago as well
[11:22:46] <zeeshan> a16501
[11:23:06] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: very nice
[11:23:12] <zeeshan> what are you planning to do with it
[11:23:18] <CaptHindsight> the one with the broken casting has nearly a 2 meter reach
[11:23:34] <zeeshan> don't turn them into sex robots.
[11:23:34] <zeeshan> :p
[11:23:44] <zeeshan> lately thats all i see in the news
[11:23:54] <CaptHindsight> 3d printing, part handling etc etc
[11:24:00] <archivist> zeeshan, those are blocks to test micrometers so the have odd values to check the thread at differing amounts of rotation
[11:24:56] <zeeshan> are they made out of glass
[11:25:24] <CaptHindsight> people always imagine something like Data from StarTrek when I mention I have a robot in the back of the truck
[11:25:33] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: haha
[11:25:39] <humble_sea_bass> must be the Nascar set
[11:25:53] <archivist> zeeshan, yes
[11:25:56] <zeeshan> very cool
[11:26:13] <zeeshan> i can't get one of my drawers open in the kennedy
[11:26:15] <zeeshan> and i can hear stuff inthere
[11:26:24] <zeeshan> i think its something to do wit hthe lock
[11:26:30] <zeeshan> which he forgot to give me keys for
[11:26:54] <archivist> interesting to test the inch glass with a starrett inch round with the standard gauge blocks
[11:28:28] <archivist> and a 1 inch ball http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=9292&subject=26626
[11:28:57] <zeeshan> haha
[11:29:00] <zeeshan> thats awesome
[11:29:03] <zeeshan> what is that a ball bearing
[11:29:19] <zeeshan> key
[11:29:21] <zeeshan> HEY.
[11:29:24] <zeeshan> i've seen that tool before
[11:29:36] <archivist> my room is not at the right temperature so I take little notice of any results I get
[11:29:52] <zeeshan> its suposed to be at 20C
[11:29:53] <zeeshan> right?
[11:29:57] <zeeshan> that is what its calibrated at?
[11:30:11] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=balls
[11:30:25] <archivist> or 86f
[11:30:27] <archivist> 68f
[11:30:39] <zeeshan> well you can just measure your room temperature
[11:30:52] <zeeshan> you know its 1" at a certain temp
[11:31:06] <zeeshan> just account for expansion for hotter temps or contraction for cooler temps :P
[11:31:11] <zeeshan> its a sphere!
[11:31:19] <archivist> but what is the material exactly
[11:31:38] <zeeshan> maybe you can do a calibration to check
[11:31:46] <zeeshan> all you need is the thermal expansion coefficient
[11:32:01] <zeeshan> heat it up to 4-5 different temps and you can use that to get it
[11:32:07] <zeeshan> and figure out the material from it :P
[11:32:09] <archivist> I dont have any heating at all at the moment
[11:32:23] <zeeshan> i really like that ball set
[11:32:25] <zeeshan> looks fancy
[11:32:41] <zeeshan> okay this si gonna sound retarded
[11:32:42] <zeeshan> http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/7012/701299_300.jpg
[11:32:54] <zeeshan> the bottom slide out door is what i cant open
[11:32:56] <archivist> the owners engraving on the box lid is fancy too
[11:33:08] <zeeshan> if i can open the top bunch of drawers, why isnt the bottom one opening
[11:33:19] <zeeshan> i mean if the toolbox was locked, i should not be able to open the top drawers
[11:33:38] <archivist> there is a bar to stop you opening draws to stop tipping
[11:33:54] <archivist> shut all other draws then retry
[11:34:08] <zeeshan> ok lemme try
[11:34:08] <CaptHindsight> something inside keeping it from sliding open?
[11:34:36] <JT-Shop> see you guys next week!
[11:35:02] <archivist> do you have a pass to go somewhere?
[11:36:47] <JT-Shop> taking my wife to Puerto Rico to scatter her mothers ashes in the sea where she was born
[11:37:18] <zeeshan> archivist: doesnt work
[11:37:31] <zeeshan> i have then all close and i can still feel like something is locking it
[11:37:58] <zeeshan> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0305-r-1.jpg
[11:38:09] <zeeshan> from that pic it looks like im supposed to just push straight up
[11:38:14] <zeeshan> right? :P
[11:38:27] <archivist> zeeshan, can you get an upper draw out to check for that rear locking bar
[11:38:48] <zeeshan> oo excellent idea
[11:38:50] <zeeshan> brb.
[11:38:59] <archivist> I have seen the lid work the bar
[11:46:21] <zeeshan> i cant get the drawer out cause my car is too close to the tool box
[11:46:38] <zeeshan> ill move the milling machine today and mvoe the tool chest to where its supposed to go
[11:46:49] <zeeshan> hopefully i find something cool in there
[11:49:24] <CaptHindsight> robot hand made of unidentifiable materials
[11:59:56] <sabotender> morning everyone
[12:10:23] <zeeshan> anyone got a cheap method to put up shelves on the garage wall
[12:10:48] <CaptHindsight> buy used shelving
[12:11:20] <zeeshan> i dont need a lot
[12:11:32] <CaptHindsight> old kitchen cabinets
[12:11:39] <zeeshan> i dont need cabinets
[12:11:41] <archivist> ikea book shelves
[12:11:42] <zeeshan> i need something like this
[12:11:49] <zeeshan> http://woodgears.ca/shelves/shelf-b.jpg
[12:11:57] <zeeshan> i wanna put them along the top sidfe of the wall
[12:12:54] <CaptHindsight> never worked out well for me, I just look for used commercial shelving
[12:14:14] <archivist> I was lazy in one room, I used small sets of draws as the verticals to hold a shelf on top
[12:21:55] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, you can almost see the hangar brackets under the shelf i used here: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
[12:22:02] <Tom_itx> they're reasonable
[12:22:15] <Tom_itx> depending how much tonnage you need to hold up
[12:22:15] <zeeshan> did you get those from home depot?
[12:22:20] <zeeshan> about 60lb at most
[12:22:26] <Tom_itx> one of those places yes
[12:22:40] <Tom_itx> all different size brackets and boards
[12:23:08] <archivist> stereo zoom and a weller /me approves
[12:23:30] <Tom_itx> if they're on the end (not in a corner) you may wanna add an L bracket under the shelf so they don't slide
[12:24:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.menards.com/main/shelving-visualizer/garage-basement/17-x-36-steel-end-frame/p-1857325-c-13051.htm I tried some of this but it bent when I sat on it
[12:24:42] <archivist> I sleep under some shelves like that
[12:25:19] <Tom_itx> Sam's sold some pretty heavy duty steel shelving i got for the garage quite some time back
[12:25:27] <Tom_itx> with wood shelves
[12:25:32] <Tom_itx> full perimeter support
[12:26:00] <Tom_itx> probably 18" deep or so
[12:26:56] <Tom_itx> 'cheap' is a rather relative term
[12:27:22] <archivist> I have 10" boards stacked with books 5 verticals iirc for a 12ft wall
[12:27:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: <--- Cheap, and not relative either ;)
[12:27:48] <CaptHindsight> Home Depot, Menards. Loews, HF all use shelving that they don't sell
[12:28:02] <Tom_itx> shame too
[12:28:41] <Jymmm> What, you can't find a business/warehuse going out of business?
[12:28:46] <archivist> shop fitting suppliers
[12:28:54] <Tom_itx> find a mom & pop store that closed due to some corporate trompling all over them and buy their shelving
[12:29:49] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/search?q=industrial+shelving
[12:30:21] <CaptHindsight> or try using unistrut http://www.home-garage-help.com/image-files/garage-hanging-storage-5.jpg
[12:35:56] <sabotender> shelving?
[12:36:26] <sabotender> just buy a cheap wooden plank and get those shelf holders that look kinda like a right triangle
[12:37:00] <sabotender> you know, you screw or hammer the top part to the wood and the right-angle to the wall
[12:37:29] <sabotender> zeeshan: that is the cheapest way I can think of to make a simple wall mounted shelf
[12:37:42] <sabotender> as a matter of fact, I did that in college
[12:39:41] <CaptHindsight> no cinder block and 2" x 12"?
[12:40:28] <sabotender> you could do that for a standard shelf that is not wall mounted. I didn't have that much space
[12:40:57] <sabotender> i had a futon and beanbag chairs
[12:41:16] <zeeshan> you guys are doing some hardcore shelving stuff
[12:41:17] <zeeshan> lol
[12:41:33] <sabotender> zeeshan: those are cheap shelving methods
[12:42:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.eclectic-ware.com/Eclectic-ware/expo-design/expo-cable-shelf/1FCSB-glass.jpg has a light and airy feel
[12:42:49] <sabotender> wow now that is sexy
[12:42:58] <zeeshan> dude
[12:43:02] <zeeshan> im not gonna put an air dryer on that
[12:43:02] <zeeshan> lol
[12:43:04] <zeeshan> thats too nice
[12:43:06] <sabotender> hell that is something I would install in my current flat
[12:43:45] <CaptHindsight> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/213506175/wall_mount_cable_shelf_system.jpg
[12:44:37] <sabotender> aye very nice. and the cables make it have high tensile strength
[12:46:10] <sabotender> i always feel embarrassed every time I try to pronounce chinese names
[13:02:51] <Deejay> namd
[13:15:14] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[13:31:46] <XXCoder> heys
[13:31:56] <IchGuckLive> it gcoder here ;-)
[13:32:51] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: still online
[13:33:09] <XXCoder> curious on what linuxcnc can do
[13:33:23] <sabotender> IchGuckLive: yup
[13:33:28] <XXCoder> could it control cnc router setup with 2.5 axis for example
[13:33:32] <IchGuckLive> it is able to mill you a nice code case
[13:33:50] <IchGuckLive> i got a 9 axis mashine rujnning
[13:34:13] <XXCoder> 9 axis?? highest In know of is 5. whats points of motion?
[13:34:14] <IchGuckLive> just xoutube linuxcnc and you will see all kinsd of mashines
[13:34:32] <sabotender> whats up?
[13:34:41] <IchGuckLive> you still in search mode
[13:34:59] <IchGuckLive> you need to take a break and think on your need
[13:35:08] <IchGuckLive> bevor you go to the next step
[13:35:14] <sabotender> no, not anymore
[13:35:24] <sabotender> i got help last night
[13:35:26] <IchGuckLive> nice to hear
[13:35:50] <IchGuckLive> Connor did it
[13:36:00] <sabotender> the complete setup costs around 1.43k
[13:36:12] <sabotender> aye, he is awesome
[13:36:13] <IchGuckLive> agree
[13:36:18] <XXCoder> IchGuckLive: got link to 9 axis youtube?
[13:36:52] <sabotender> im going to see if i can get the base at a better price. now im in pricing mode ;-)
[13:37:15] <sabotender> even if its the same price im going to see if places offer free shipping, etc
[13:38:12] <IchGuckLive> the base is about 500USD
[13:38:26] <IchGuckLive> i woudt also take care about the rails used
[13:38:38] <sabotender> orly?
[13:38:56] <sabotender> that one site had it priced at 830 usd
[13:38:58] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqe2L7y4QI
[13:39:05] <XXCoder> thanks
[13:40:47] <XXCoder> does platform rotate too?
[13:40:56] <XXCoder> looks like since it has lathe chuck
[13:40:57] <IchGuckLive> its a 7 +2
[13:41:42] <XXCoder> so far I see, X, Y, Z, 2 points of rotation on router part, one rotation on base
[13:43:10] <IchGuckLive> standard 6 XYZ ABC added W aliong Z and the 2 extras UV
[13:44:21] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: normel persons only need 5
[13:44:32] <IchGuckLive> you can do a hell on 5 axis
[13:44:34] <XXCoder> I'm most likely to make 2.5 axis
[13:44:40] <XXCoder> dont really need more fancy
[13:44:57] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: steppers on the XYZ?
[13:44:59] <IchGuckLive> 2.5 is more likly to be full 3D
[13:45:29] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: it is not mine
[13:45:36] <IchGuckLive> so i guess its a servo
[13:45:47] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: just wondering from the sounds
[13:45:56] <XXCoder> Not sure since isn't z unable to cut inward shaped parts. for example it attemps to make sphere and only can do top part
[13:46:13] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: what is the goal you want tro meed with you mashine
[13:46:28] <XXCoder> cut sheet of wood and sometimes alum
[13:46:43] <IchGuckLive> size
[13:47:00] <XXCoder> oh theres 2'x3' kit I plan to buy
[13:47:18] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: I forget the max number of axis, IIRC maybe 9 but you can have far more joints
[13:47:30] <IchGuckLive> nice there are lots of good mashienes on side
[13:47:43] <XXCoder> I guess it can always expanded with extra hardware and custom software
[13:48:01] <IchGuckLive> thats the goal linuxcnc meats
[13:48:07] <XXCoder> plan to build this http://www.overclock.net/t/755828/complete-2-x-3-custom-cnc-router-from-80-20-aluminum-extrusion
[13:48:21] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: whaer are you in the blue world
[13:48:24] <XXCoder> warning: millions of pics (not literally) heh
[13:48:27] <XXCoder> in usa
[13:48:36] <IchGuckLive> im in germany
[13:48:43] <XXCoder> easy to guess from my usage of imperial system lol
[13:48:52] <XXCoder> only few countries still does. annoying.
[13:50:36] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: you shoudt consider a full homemade for half the price
[13:50:54] <IchGuckLive> but you need to spend time
[13:50:56] <XXCoder> problem is I suck on making. I also has virtually no tools
[13:51:07] <XXCoder> so yeah 80/20 is almost only choice
[13:51:12] <IchGuckLive> oh ok then its a miss
[13:51:49] <IchGuckLive> what state are you there are lots of toolshops around the usa
[13:52:20] <XXCoder> I suppose
[13:52:42] <XXCoder> it'll take me a bit to gather enough cnc parts anyway :)
[13:52:46] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: whats the total BOM cost for that 80/20 design?
[13:52:56] <IchGuckLive> by the way @ all NASA did the first 3D concrede printer for the lunar mission puplic relese today
[13:53:15] <XXCoder> capt theres $1,400 kit for 80/20 framework + around $700 for electric system. well plus router
[13:53:25] <XXCoder> I guess roughly $2100 usd
[13:53:56] <IchGuckLive> on that size the gecko 540 is well min requirerment i woudent go for that
[13:54:02] <XXCoder> conceate? as in material made from rock powder and water basically
[13:54:39] <IchGuckLive> concrede punp to Nozzle well the layers are pretty wear
[13:55:09] <IchGuckLive> but you only need to put the printer to lunar surface
[13:55:10] <CaptHindsight> concrete is a pretty vague term like plastic, not sure what NASA announced 3d printing with similar materials has been done for years
[13:55:15] <IchGuckLive> powder is there
[13:55:34] <XXCoder> capt maybe lunar regoth + water 3d printer?
[13:55:42] <XXCoder> all they need is water
[13:55:46] <CaptHindsight> moondust and water
[13:55:57] <XXCoder> well and printer itself of course
[13:57:42] <IchGuckLive> https://www.google.de/search?q=concrete+3d+printer&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=kp4kU-mcFcnoswbm3oCgBw&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1209&bih=812
[13:58:06] <CaptHindsight> most additive manufacturing techniques are pretty simple and similar to CNC machines, the real work is in the materials
[13:58:34] <XXCoder> capt I do hope once I am done with cnc, I will be able to build smallish 3d printer.
[13:58:53] <XXCoder> after all with cnc it's MUCH simplier to make 3d printer with it
[13:59:00] <CaptHindsight> slurry and polymer concretes
[13:59:18] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: after sep this year the prices will drop to half
[13:59:32] <XXCoder> cnc parts?
[13:59:48] <XXCoder> thats cool, I would be still saving up lol not exactly rich.
[14:00:34] <CaptHindsight> from 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yv-IWdSdns
[14:01:19] <XXCoder> lol yeah remember that video. still think its awesome.
[14:01:20] <CaptHindsight> the trick is getting the right slump
[14:01:30] <XXCoder> yeah too liquid or solid not good
[14:01:48] <CaptHindsight> and you're not just limited to what the trucks delivers
[14:02:16] <XXCoder> I guess someday they will figure how to print without layer bumps
[14:02:24] <CaptHindsight> you can mix glass and carbon fibers and polymers
[14:02:57] <CaptHindsight> did you see the first parts of that video, it smoothed out the layers
[14:03:12] <XXCoder> yeah, inside wasnt too smooth though
[14:03:30] <CaptHindsight> they didn't care about the inside
[14:04:37] <XXCoder> guess can build or sand it down
[14:04:50] <CaptHindsight> before it sets you just smooth it
[14:04:51] <XXCoder> I wonder about render at end, it printed a roof
[14:04:56] <XXCoder> thats true
[14:05:20] <CaptHindsight> or you put another layer over for insulation such as a rigid foam
[14:05:44] <XXCoder> that'd work too
[14:05:53] <CaptHindsight> they a thick acrylic layer of paint
[14:05:56] <XXCoder> unless they use hollow wall then stuff it full of insulation
[14:05:57] <CaptHindsight> they/then
[14:06:16] <XXCoder> or use concerete surfacants. theres quite a few awesome concerete agers
[14:06:32] <CaptHindsight> as you can see moving the deposition heads around is pretty simple
[14:06:42] <CaptHindsight> it's all about the materials
[14:06:59] <XXCoder> http://www.diypete.com/how-to-make-concrete-coffee-table/
[14:07:37] <CaptHindsight> lasts too long :)
[14:08:03] <XXCoder> lol ok
[14:08:32] <CaptHindsight> just think if all cars, homes and furniture were made of aluminum and concretes
[14:08:32] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.56.HDONt4&id=36204343195
[14:08:43] <XXCoder> I do wish I knew enough about building - I'd grab some large laser printer and grab parts off it to build cheapass cnc
[14:08:46] <IchGuckLive> 100USD shipment as a kit
[14:09:24] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: i use epson laser printer for building mashines
[14:09:32] <CaptHindsight> ~$1200 but close enough, shipping max by boat +$700
[14:09:58] <XXCoder> only if light weight capt heh wouldnt want 3 ton little smartcar-size car
[14:10:47] <CaptHindsight> aluminum land Rovers from the 60's work just fine
[14:10:56] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[14:11:00] <XXCoder> later
[14:11:09] <CaptHindsight> 1,000,000 mile vehicles
[14:12:07] <XXCoder> million mile is pretty crappy
[14:12:13] <XXCoder> dammit
[14:12:15] <XXCoder> I meant
[14:12:25] <XXCoder> 1 million miles is pretty rare. most cars is too crappy
[14:13:32] <CaptHindsight> aluminum blocks with steel sleeves, my Land Cruisers from the 90's easily go 300K between rebuilds
[14:14:34] <CaptHindsight> so it's all doable, it's just not good for business
[14:14:57] <XXCoder> wonder if blocks is buildable from alum blocks lol
[14:15:03] <XXCoder> but then alum blocks probably expensive
[14:15:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6OZXdRoogY CAD in the a.m., cast and machined parts by the afternoon
[14:15:54] <XXCoder> my car contour 1998 is last year with really crappy tranny that overheats and dies. my kind of car is pretty rare today because of it.
[14:17:16] <XXCoder> alum printing
[14:17:18] <XXCoder> awesome
[14:17:28] <XXCoder> looks like alum anyway
[14:17:32] <CaptHindsight> 3d printed molds
[14:17:38] <CaptHindsight> yes, for aluminum
[14:17:45] <XXCoder> ahh molds
[14:17:50] <XXCoder> awesome indeed
[14:19:20] <CaptHindsight> that sand doesn't have much binder in it, it only lasts for the casting
[14:19:21] <XXCoder> funny how molen alum looks like extra shiny water.
[14:20:10] <XXCoder> 3d print -> cast -> cnc to finish
[14:20:41] <CaptHindsight> yes, just for the tight tolerance areas
[14:20:50] <CaptHindsight> or threads
[14:21:02] <humble_sea_bass> Cap. the blow torch is just for hardening the part reight
[14:21:07] <XXCoder> yeah no way to get < 0.1 mm telerence say from sand cast
[14:21:15] <CaptHindsight> bearing surfaces, cylinder walls etc
[14:21:59] <CaptHindsight> you can but then the sand particles are limited by ~0.01mm max, more sand dust than sand
[14:22:31] <XXCoder> okay, was guessing on resolution, just know its less resolution than needed
[14:23:02] <CaptHindsight> but with available machines today, yeah cast and the finish on cnc
[14:23:24] <CaptHindsight> with e-beam you could directly print metal
[14:23:37] <XXCoder> theres new weld 3d printer now
[14:23:42] <CaptHindsight> but it's ~1-2L/hour
[14:23:43] <XXCoder> its at very crude beginnings
[14:23:54] <humble_sea_bass> gotta start somewhere
[14:23:59] <XXCoder> always.
[14:24:16] <CaptHindsight> it's the patents keeping it from taking off in the west
[14:24:36] <CaptHindsight> most of this stuff has already been worked out
[14:25:05] <XXCoder> sometimes patents is needed but then theres bad patents :(
[14:25:14] <XXCoder> theres over 500,000 patents on smartphones
[14:25:15] <CaptHindsight> multiple e-beam heads could print a block in minutes
[14:25:25] <XXCoder> fully 1/3 of all patents in usa
[14:25:27] <humble_sea_bass> Cap, is there any one place in the states that is iterating through this technology faster than the east asian industrial parks?
[14:26:11] <CaptHindsight> well there's the dog and pony show of NAMII
[14:26:35] <CaptHindsight> now two more centers in the USA
[14:28:00] <CaptHindsight> https://americamakes.us/
[14:28:36] <CaptHindsight> let me know when anything actually happens to change the world there
[14:28:38] <humble_sea_bass> that tit bret pettis = bad news
[14:29:38] <CaptHindsight> you won't see any cooperation, no hybrid printers
[14:29:48] <CaptHindsight> no high speed machines
[14:29:58] <XXCoder> would be interesting to see multi-material printer
[14:30:13] <CaptHindsight> with multiple processes
[14:30:13] <XXCoder> print a entire toy including electric stuff heh
[14:30:28] <humble_sea_bass> >>toy<<
[14:30:55] <XXCoder> someday can place all kinds of elements to make abostely anything
[14:31:06] <humble_sea_bass> i think manufacturing toys by throwing human suffering in east asia is working really well
[14:32:01] <CaptHindsight> feed a child for $1 a day
[14:32:27] <CaptHindsight> get them a factory job, sad but true
[14:32:35] <mcell> we've built a CNC (1.1m bridge) to mill custom split frontplates from 3mm sheet Al. Unfortunately the Al sheet we must use (eloxated surface, with protection foil, looks very nice) seems to be very mild (not much Mg or Si), we found that it's milled very nicely when continusly wetted with alcohol (water would prolly work as well). tool: http://www.cncdrive.hu/shop/index.php?productID=382 but we tried different RPM from 5000-24000 RP
[14:32:35] <mcell> M and different feed rates (30-600 mm /min), same result. Is there a trick to it ? We prolly need to build some automatic "mister", but maybe there is some specific tool that just works (3..4 mm dia; some drills, some part is halfway milled to 1.5mm plateau, and then contour of course).
[14:33:42] <CaptHindsight> mcell: just watch for sparks
[14:34:47] <CaptHindsight> di water + ethanol
[14:35:16] <archivist> aluminium sticks to tooling if not lubricated
[14:36:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.google.com/patents/EP2520639A1?cl=en like I said before, patents on everything
[14:36:46] <XXCoder> di water = distalled water?
[14:37:41] <CaptHindsight> deionized
[14:38:14] <XXCoder> ok
[14:38:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.distilleddeionizedwater.com/deionized-water-vs-distilled-water/
[14:39:45] <XXCoder> interesting
[14:40:10] <XXCoder> does cutting alum ALWAYS need lubucation?
[14:40:18] <XXCoder> or just when fast cutting
[14:40:36] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Just like sex, not always but doesn't hurt
[14:40:43] <XXCoder> lol ok
[14:41:09] <archivist> some of the harder aluminium allows are less sticky
[14:41:13] <Jymmm> al can get gummy though
[14:43:16] <XXCoder> jy maybe you can answer mcel question, I'm very much a beginner lol
[14:43:51] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Well, you probably know more than me!
[14:44:09] <XXCoder> hardly, I dont even own a cnc yet :)
[14:45:12] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: it's costs like $10K to join NAMII and then you get to share your developments with the co's that paid $100K to join
[14:45:19] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a deal
[14:45:29] <humble_sea_bass> heh
[14:47:37] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: http://www.gckfq.gov.cn/en/industry3.php where they give you $100-500K to make things
[14:48:09] <humble_sea_bass> ga damn
[14:48:36] <CaptHindsight> so long term, which one will succeed?
[14:48:44] <humble_sea_bass> rep rap
[14:48:48] <CaptHindsight> lol
[14:48:50] <humble_sea_bass> maker movement
[14:48:54] <humble_sea_bass> feel good
[14:49:43] <humble_sea_bass> I should get off my ass and get out of the NYC construction/engineering clusterfuck. this seems a lot more exciting
[14:51:05] <CaptHindsight> Obama two years ina row during the state of the union mentions 3d printing
[14:51:19] <CaptHindsight> and this is all they do: NAMII
[14:51:23] <humble_sea_bass> it is washington
[14:51:46] <XXCoder> not my washington lol
[14:51:53] <XXCoder> I live at other end ;)
[14:52:06] <XXCoder> capt in what context?
[14:52:16] <humble_sea_bass> my wife goes over there to lobby for accessible tech and so forth and it is astounding how little they understand
[14:52:34] <XXCoder> humble not only that but some even brag that they dont know science
[14:52:39] <XXCoder> like thats good thing
[14:53:19] <humble_sea_bass> it isn't even about science so much as not knowing because you ain't paying coin into their reelection coffers
[14:53:32] <CaptHindsight> there's more money in invading countries and then "rebuilding" them
[14:53:52] <CaptHindsight> I wonder who is next
[14:54:08] <humble_sea_bass> I was at a small fund raiser with one of the congressmen from brooklyn, one of the cats that in the past voted against net neutrality
[14:54:23] <humble_sea_bass> had no idea what net neutrality was though when we were talking
[14:55:05] <humble_sea_bass> I interviewed with the Army Corp of Engineers
[14:55:37] <humble_sea_bass> the position they were trying to fill was for field engineer with no assignment choice
[14:55:45] <humble_sea_bass> which meant Afghanistan
[14:55:49] <CaptHindsight> heh
[14:56:06] <CaptHindsight> don't worry we pay for your plane ticket
[14:56:20] <humble_sea_bass> yeah, i gave em a heh and goodbye
[14:56:48] <XXCoder> lol
[14:57:44] <CaptHindsight> last night Vice had a spot on Afghanistan and how contractors destroy new equipment just to invoice for new ones
[14:58:54] <humble_sea_bass> it is a system just begging BEGGING to be abused
[14:59:32] <humble_sea_bass> I was reading that new book Glock: The rise of america's gun
[14:59:41] <XXCoder> capt that sucks
[14:59:52] <XXCoder> I hate waste
[14:59:58] <humble_sea_bass> we ordered 250,000 glocks for the iraqis, and we didn't record a single serial number
[15:00:01] <humble_sea_bass> not one
[15:00:35] <humble_sea_bass> oh they are missing? just order 250,000 more
[15:00:55] <CaptHindsight> yeah. similar with everything else, we built multimillion $$ power stations that run on diesel that cost more to operate than they bill for electricity
[15:01:21] <CaptHindsight> it's actually evil genius
[15:02:38] <CaptHindsight> cost plus contracts
[15:08:43] <XXCoder> lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6drMZqmyXQc
[15:10:24] <CaptHindsight> yeah, all from pipe
[15:10:40] <XXCoder> nice thing is that it can make better cnc
[15:10:56] <andypugh> I think it's pretty cool actually.
[15:11:16] <XXCoder> it is. its nearly pure home improvement type project
[15:12:46] <XXCoder> I remember reading about project that makes a really crappy lathe
[15:12:54] <XXCoder> so can make proper lathe from it
[15:13:14] <XXCoder> sadky I lost link
[15:14:49] <mcell> thanx. Will use lube (for sex and Al CNC). After the Al milling is going well, Will make a plasma CNC also (hope the THC https://github.com/regeg/ArdunioTHC will work well). Than I plan to install a small but sturdy CNC (with rotating axis) on an old mill
[15:18:16] <XXCoder> well well well this is interesting http://toolmonger.com/2007/12/26/make-a-lathe-out-of-your-drill-press/
[15:20:21] <CaptHindsight> vertical lathe? :)
[15:20:45] <XXCoder> yeah bit odd
[15:21:37] <CaptHindsight> you have to add that those bearings aren't made for radial forces and the chuck can't hold a part well
[15:21:46] <XXCoder> its good if only very rarely need a lathe
[15:21:55] <XXCoder> or just to make proper lathe with.
[15:22:59] <CaptHindsight> I would have loved having that as a kid
[15:23:13] <CaptHindsight> everybody had a drill press in the basement
[15:23:42] <CaptHindsight> I think they came standard in every new house in the 60/70's
[15:23:52] <XXCoder> sadly I never really have chance with wood shop and such in school
[15:24:13] <XXCoder> My teacher died of heart attack after one semster and never got any replacement
[15:24:19] <XXCoder> oddly his name was Mr. Hammer
[15:24:33] <CaptHindsight> good name for shop teacher
[15:24:40] <XXCoder> yeah
[15:24:48] <XXCoder> hes been teacher there for long time
[15:25:00] <CaptHindsight> better than Mr Stubs
[15:25:04] <XXCoder> my brother had few classes. me? only one
[15:25:14] <XXCoder> started basics then next semster oops hes dead
[15:25:50] <CaptHindsight> a few HS in the area here had machine and welding shops
[15:26:02] <CaptHindsight> old bridgeports and hardinges
[15:26:33] <CaptHindsight> they would give you a big block of something to make a small part of
[15:26:58] <XXCoder> man
[15:27:28] <CaptHindsight> where i learned to gas weld
[15:27:46] <CaptHindsight> but I haven't touched it since, except for cutting
[15:28:00] <XXCoder> heh my bro attended school and learned that. we moved to other state before I got to that age
[15:28:22] <XXCoder> funny how I managed to "avoid" all classes that'd be fun
[15:28:25] <CaptHindsight> I can't see them having them anymore due to liability
[15:28:41] <XXCoder> yeah theres no way to do 100 tests there too
[15:28:53] <XXCoder> test based school really suck
[15:29:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD399?ie=UTF8&tag=dugnorth-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0000DD399
[15:29:41] <CaptHindsight> even lower budget version
[15:29:50] <XXCoder> yeah pretty good I think
[15:30:15] <XXCoder> whenever I get cnc working I might evenually add lathe chuck attachment to it lol
[15:30:24] <CaptHindsight> throw in a HF drill and a 2 year warranty
[15:30:42] <XXCoder> saw one cnc table that could have lathe chuck mounted on it so it can spin stokc while cnc works on it
[15:31:03] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how many drills you could return before they get upset
[15:33:59] <XXCoder> maybe 3-4 lol
[15:34:07] <XXCoder> definitely not metal lathe
[15:34:23] <XXCoder> I never could find that link on how to make lathe out of lathe
[15:34:54] <XXCoder> it sounds strange but then you could use friend lathe to make your own
[15:34:58] <CaptHindsight> I bought a compound miter saw last year that I put a great blade into for cutting aluminum...
[15:35:57] <CaptHindsight> it came with extra brushes but I haven't put any wear on it. I thought the motor would be toast by now
[15:36:30] <XXCoder> heh some tools can be oretty abused before any issues
[15:37:02] <CaptHindsight> $120 saw with $200 non-ferrous blade
[15:37:25] <XXCoder> pretty cheap lol
[15:38:17] <CaptHindsight> I cut plate and extrusions all the time, and wipe it with a candle every few cuts for lube
[15:38:39] <XXCoder> nice. makes sense, wax is pretty good
[15:40:25] <CaptHindsight> everything else I've ever gotten there either bends, breaks, melts etc after a few uses
[15:48:03] <XXCoder> tsk tsk abusive worker ;)
[17:00:58] <Deejay> gn8
[17:11:25] <MrSunshine> woohaa! heekscad/cnc released a new versionw iths imulator ?
[17:13:03] <MrSunshine> and gone over to "commercial" but i understand that .. and for that small price its nothing =)
[17:14:04] <zultron> Weird. Can't tell if it's open or closed source.
[17:14:16] <Swapper_> Anyone that can explain how +-10V speed signal can be connected, i have a Servostar 400 drive that seems to have + AND - terminals ? whats up with that?
[17:14:57] <Swapper_> can i hook up my 7i77 +-10 volt to the "+" side only and leave the "-" side ?
[17:27:08] <MrSunshine> zultron, hehe .. yeah got a bit confused tehre "heekscad is totaly open source but here pay me to use it commercialy" .. but i guess thats aight also as long as that is the license of it =)
[17:27:25] <MrSunshine> but 10 for a cad/cam package isnt much to dick around about if used commercialy =)
[17:27:42] <zultron> Except I don't see his v 1.0 source code for download.
[17:28:08] <MrSunshine> compared to the what. .. $20 000 for solidworks and their cam package ... :P
[17:29:00] <zultron> Right, $10 is peanuts, and closed-source is fine for people who don't want to modify the source.
[17:39:27] <zultron> I continue to be surprised that there's not enough demand for open-source 3D CAM that any project backed by a large development community exists.
[17:40:10] <XXCoder> my guess is everyone big has own solution to sell
[17:41:56] <andypugh> zultron: How many are working on FreeCAD?
[17:42:08] <andypugh> Ah, wait, you said "CAM"
[17:42:42] <zultron> Actually, the FreeCAD CAM module might be the most viable project, but it's moving slowly.
[17:43:14] <andypugh> I am using Inventor and demo-runs of CamBam at this moment.
[17:43:14] <XXCoder> andypugh: if youre good, you could do kickstarter
[17:43:21] <zultron> Several folks working very intermittently on that, I believe.
[17:44:05] <andypugh> Swapper_: Are there three terminals?
[17:44:25] <Swapper_> yes
[17:44:34] <Swapper_> agnd and the + and -
[17:44:51] <zultron> But they've got a fantastic-looking plan, and a smart team, so I'm hopeful. :)
[17:44:52] <andypugh> Very odd. That be one for PCW that be.
[17:45:06] <Swapper_> ok ty
[17:45:16] <andypugh> LinuxCNC is the same, except for the plan part :-)
[17:46:14] <XXCoder> jeez. 11 axis.
[17:46:15] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCRCcwDeKQ
[17:53:14] <MrSunshine> what a nightmare =)
[17:53:24] <MrSunshine> atleast for the poor cam programmers ;P
[17:53:37] <XXCoder> heh glad I'm not one
[17:53:54] <andypugh> It probably takes a week to program and an hour to make 1000 parts.
[17:54:15] <XXCoder> its probably perfect to constantly make set of parts
[17:54:26] <andypugh> (Which is fine, as lots of programmers can work in parallel)
[17:54:30] <XXCoder> so not much to do once its chugging along besides resupply and such
[18:04:32] <Swapper_> pcw_home: if u got any input on connecting a 7i77 to a Servostar 400 that have + and - on the analog +-10 ref it would be much appriciated.
[18:05:02] <Swapper_> pcw_home: it have 3 inputs AGND and + AND -
[18:21:41] <dzzig> Swapper I would interpret those connections as being balanced dc. + should go +ve with respect to gnd, while - goes correspondingly -ve with respect to gnd.
[18:22:38] <dzzig> agnd is analog ground, and connected as a noise shield and ground reference
[18:23:13] <dzzig> + and - and the connections to use to control speed
[18:23:23] <dzzig> oops + and - are
[20:17:23] <R2E4_> evening....
[20:29:32] <PetefromTn_> evenin'
[20:30:56] <R2E4_> Hey Pete.
[20:31:02] <R2E4_> Howz it going?
[20:31:10] <PetefromTn_> pretty good you?
[20:31:37] <R2E4_> Good. Had to stop working on my VMC for a couple weeks. Had a run of 400 urns in bamboo to do.
[20:32:30] <R2E4_> Got the X and Y working. Havent donme final tuning yet but did my button panel, cleaned up some wiring, and working on my mpg now.
[20:32:55] <PetefromTn_> awesome... Cannot wait to see that bad boy running.
[20:32:58] <R2E4_> my pidis at -100, 0, 0 . Have to research and get that done.
[20:33:20] <R2E4_> Have you done any work on your toolchanger?
[20:33:46] <PetefromTn_> actually today has been a BANNER day for work on the machine LOL...
[20:34:09] <PetefromTn_> My good pal Connor came over today for several hours and we did a bunch of stuff on the machine.
[20:34:18] <R2E4_> IF I was there I'd be atBristol this weekend....hehe
[20:34:55] <R2E4_> Is it working good? accurate?
[20:35:28] <PetefromTn_> We got the final touches on the modbus spindle control and I got my buttons working for fwd an rev which were lost somehow with the original modbus setup.
[20:36:00] <R2E4_> ah cool. I have my Z and spindle servos to donext.
[20:36:24] <R2E4_> Apparant;y I need anew spacebar...lol
[20:37:37] <R2E4_> Filled my coolant resevoir up with water added the coolant poil and the coolant pump was fantastic, up until I noticed coolant leaking out fromnt he bottom.\
[20:37:42] <PetefromTn_> We also managed to get all the proximity switches for the toolchanger hooked up and got the toolchanger motor working fwd and revers all integrated into the control.
[20:37:55] <R2E4_> Had to empty it, and have to weld it to fix the leaks....lol
[20:38:05] <PetefromTn_> LOL I had to do the same damn thing...
[20:38:49] <R2E4_> When I got the machine, they left the coolant tank full of coolant, for 2 years.
[20:39:06] <R2E4_> shut the machine off and didnt touch it for two years.
[20:39:20] <PetefromTn_> I actually wound up wire wheeling the troughs up and then tig welded the holes I could see and I then coated the entire inside of both of them with west system epoxy.
[20:39:22] <R2E4_> dumbasses.
[20:39:48] <R2E4_> oh yeah? get that on the web? Thats a good idea.
[20:40:02] <PetefromTn_> Then I repainted the troughs with an industrial immersion proof epoxy based paint.
[20:40:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvixAF-h1YI scooter in a briefcase
[20:40:23] <R2E4_> I sould do that.
[20:40:36] <PetefromTn_> no I just did something similar to another coolant trough I had before.
[20:40:45] <R2E4_> What year is your machine?
[20:41:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah so far it is holding good with like 50 gallons in it and the epoxy will ensure no future holes go thru.
[20:41:15] <PetefromTn_> it is a 1997.
[20:41:18] <R2E4_> Mine is 1987. But was only used fopr small tooling.
[20:41:49] <R2E4_> I wonder if these machine retrofitted with LinuxCNC are worth anything, monetary speaking.
[20:41:53] <R2E4_> I would never sell it.
[20:42:13] <PetefromTn_> Honestly from what I have seen of these kinds of machines if they were taken care of at all they are gonna outlast the control easily.
[20:43:03] <PetefromTn_> I sure damn well hope so I expect once it is working well it will be worth a great deal of money I know it would be to me. Especially since once it is done anyone can fix it with off the shelf parts from various manufacturers.
[20:46:02] <dmz2> What kinda machine is it
[20:46:25] <PetefromTn_> dmz2 Whose?
[20:47:18] <dmz2> yours
[20:47:41] <PetefromTn_> it is a LinuxCNC retrofit 1997 Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC
[20:50:44] <dmz2> Pretty neat machine
[20:51:06] <dmz2> Did you have to replace the servo drives
[20:51:30] <PetefromTn_> Yeah well actually I CHOSE to replace not only the servo drives but the motors and cables to them as well...
[20:51:54] <dmz2> What kinda motors did you use
[20:51:56] <PetefromTn_> I sold off all the original stuff and was able to buy all brand new ones.
[20:52:05] <PetefromTn_> Teco motors and drives.
[20:52:07] <R2E4_> I am not replacing my drives.
[20:52:33] <R2E4_> My spindle servo doesnt have encoder though.
[20:52:50] <R2E4_> BIg ass servo though, and the drive is a fanuc.
[20:53:15] <dmz2> I have an old Mill about that size with brush motors (fanuc)
[20:53:29] <PetefromTn_> what size?
[20:54:34] <dmz2> fanuc 5 and 10 I think
[20:54:53] <PetefromTn_> no I mean what size and kinda mill?
[20:55:09] <R2E4_> I would think if these machines are done well and working kgood, they should be worth quite a nbit.
[20:55:46] <PetefromTn_> I would think so. I know my machine now can run much longer code and runs 3d movement faster and smoother than it did stock.
[20:55:55] <dmz2> matsuura mc660 and mc1000
[20:56:55] <PetefromTn_> Hey those are some nice looking machines. What year?
[20:57:16] <dmz2> 1979 and 78
[20:57:37] <R2E4_> Those are cool. Dpoes it have the nice big control panel?
[20:57:58] <dmz2> old controls but I got one of them working
[20:58:03] <R2E4_> You could fit a touch screen on there and some buttons.
[20:58:43] <dmz2> The 1000 has a neat control panel that would be perfect fit that
[20:58:54] <dmz2> for
[20:59:17] <PetefromTn_> Trying to find a picture of what that looks like.
[20:59:42] <andypugh> R2E4_: Negative PID gains are buggy with LinuxCNC. It's better to negate the encoder scale then the PID gain.
[20:59:48] <dmz2> It's the onewith the busted control too
[21:00:55] <R2E4_> andypugh: yeah, PCW was telling me that. Just havenbt figure out how to change the scale yet.
[21:00:56] <XXCoder> a cnc went unused for 2 years?
[21:00:57] <XXCoder> jeez
[21:01:36] <XXCoder> or was it just coolant parts that was left unused 2 years?
[21:01:52] <R2E4_> The machine was turned off for two years.
[21:02:02] <R2E4_> Hitachi Seiki VM-40
[21:02:26] <XXCoder> geez
[21:02:27] <andypugh> R2E4_: Well, if you change the encoder scale then the axis will run backwards, and you probably don't want that.
[21:02:28] <XXCoder> wonder why
[21:02:29] <PetefromTn_> apparently the controls are no longer supported on them.
[21:02:29] <R2E4_> battery went dead, and was downhill from there when I powered it up in my shop.
[21:02:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141206350831 MILACRON ARROW 500
[21:02:39] <andypugh> What does the PID drive, is it a pwmgen?
[21:03:08] <R2E4_> 10v drives
[21:03:08] <andypugh> If it is a pwmgen, then make the pwm scale negative.
[21:03:26] <andypugh> (or swap the wires :-)
[21:03:31] <R2E4_> directly driven from the 7i77
[21:03:56] <R2E4_> pcw said in no lesser terms....DO NOT SWAP THE WIRES....
[21:04:03] <andypugh> :-)
[21:04:09] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight yup that's the same machine I have. that one looks kinda beat tho..
[21:04:21] <R2E4_> the scale analogout has to be changed to negative.
[21:04:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/331150700446 Cincinnati Milacrron 5VC-750
[21:04:41] <andypugh> Swap A and B on the encoder then.
[21:04:42] <dmz2> peter: Google image search matsuura mc1000 3000c the first pic
[21:04:48] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: yeah, the price seems way too high for that one
[21:06:00] <andypugh> I don't know, it's a big lump of iron.
[21:06:01] <R2E4_> They are running in the right doirection, if I swap the encoders, it will just reverse where it thinks it is and go in the other direction, no?
[21:06:06] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-Arrow-500-VMC-CNC-20-x34-X-20-Y-20-Z-22-6000RPM-10HP-2100-Acromatic-/281184869245?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4177ec9b7d
[21:07:00] <andypugh> R2E4_: Yes, you are right, if the encoders read the right way, then leave them alone. You need to reverse the motor somehow.
[21:07:31] <PetefromTn_> Okay that is kinda what I thought it looked like.
[21:07:57] <R2E4_> That cincinati looks in good shape
[21:08:17] <PetefromTn_> That's pretty much what mine looks like now...
[21:08:57] <R2E4_> andypugh: Thats what I thought.
[21:09:04] <pcw_home> R2E4 on 7I77 you change the sign of scalemax to reverse the feedback
[21:09:09] <PetefromTn_> wouldn't mind having that tooling plate on it LOL.
[21:09:55] <R2E4_> analogout0.scalemax
[21:10:21] <andypugh> What the heck? Cincinatti Milacrons were made in the UK then exported to the US?
[21:10:30] <PetefromTn_> LOL yup!
[21:10:52] <PetefromTn_> made in Birmingham england.
[21:11:04] <andypugh> I thought we stopped making anything at all in about 1960.
[21:11:15] <pcw_home> Yeah blah.blah.blah.analogoutn.scalemax
[21:11:16] <PetefromTn_> apparently not LOL..
[21:11:46] <sabotender> oh lordy
[21:12:13] <dmz2> I get to work on a 1994 jcb backhoe all the time.. Was made in england
[21:12:39] <dmz2> real fun to find parts for it
[21:12:47] <andypugh> Yeah, JCB are still very much active.
[21:13:08] <andypugh> You should be able to just buy parts from JCB.
[21:13:39] <andypugh> (I would quite like to work for JCB, I did briefly in the past, and they are based in a lovely part of the country)
[21:13:56] <dmz2> most of them. Some are outrageously priced tho
[21:15:03] <R2E4_> pcw just put a - after like 5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0-scalemax -
[21:17:15] <R2E4_> Pete, what does your machine weigh?
[21:17:26] <R2E4_> 7000 lbs?
[21:17:29] <PetefromTn_> it is like around 7k..
[21:18:32] <dmz2> jcbs are perfect if you like paying $500 for simple parts like an alternator or throttle cable
[21:18:33] <R2E4_> What can you rapid at? 300?
[21:18:45] <PetefromTn_> about 700 IPM.
[21:18:58] <R2E4_> wow. cool
[21:19:25] <PetefromTn_> scary to me LOL>.. I keep the rapids turned down to maintain sanity.
[21:19:25] <andypugh> JCB fastTrac: The latest version of this gearbox a wet clutch replaced the dry clutch still with 54 forward and 18 reverse gears
[21:19:40] <PetefromTn_> Newer machine are more than twice that fast tho.
[21:21:16] <R2E4_> yeah, mine says it can do 600
[21:21:26] <dmz2> Andy prolly costs $50k to rebuild that tranny..
[21:21:32] <PetefromTn_> PLENTY...
[21:21:43] <PetefromTn_> what are your travels?
[21:21:47] <R2E4_> I wont ever see 600 on this machine.
[21:21:47] <XXCoder> IPM inches per minute?
[21:21:57] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[21:22:21] <dmz2> my old 1970s machines can do 400ipm
[21:22:26] <R2E4_> 16 Y, 24X, 16Z
[21:22:47] <R2E4_> yours has a 34 inch X I think
[21:22:57] <XXCoder> R2 why wasnt machine used for 2 years? I find it interesting that such a expensive machine was left alone 2+ years
[21:23:08] <PetefromTn_> actually it is 20x20x20
[21:23:12] <dmz2> That's plenty fast enough to wreck something up good
[21:23:13] <R2E4_> I bought it for 6,000.00
[21:23:50] <R2E4_> The guy made small tools for the sewing industry, and retired. He owned the building, and just shut everything down.
[21:23:59] <XXCoder> ahh
[21:24:04] <XXCoder> guess that makes sense
[21:24:37] <andypugh> Night all
[21:24:42] <R2E4_> I was bummed out when I got it in my shop, powered it up and it didnt work. lol
[21:24:44] <PetefromTn_> night andy.
[21:25:06] <PetefromTn_> I am sure you bought it and it was supposed to be working for $6k?
[21:25:46] <R2E4_> yes, he said it was working when he shut it down. IT powered up, but had parameter issues.
[21:26:21] <R2E4_> I knew him through a friend that has a machine shop, and he saw it working when he shut it down.
[21:26:55] <PetefromTn_> probably batteries died in it.
[21:27:04] <R2E4_> The battery was dead, so I thought I could input all the parameters, and get it working. I worked on it for a month, but then found a memopry board to be bad.
[21:28:37] <R2E4_> I'm happy now I didnt get it working.
[21:28:46] <R2E4_> LinuxCNC is going to be amazing on th=is machine
[21:30:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah man you should see my control panel now with the spindle speed and spindle load metering as well as the XYZ MPG buttons etc...
[21:30:38] <PetefromTn_> all on screen... adding stuff is relatively easy.
[21:30:44] <skunkworks> R2E4_: going better?
[21:31:40] <dmz2> pete: are you using mesa cards?
[21:31:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah man only way to fly...
[21:33:24] <PetefromTn_> Funny thing Is I was worried about having enough I/0 for the machine with the 5i25/7i77 but I got more than enough and I can addd two more axes if I need to.
[21:33:24] <R2E4_> skunkworks, yeah, I was off doing a run of bamboo urns 400 of them so I didnt have time to work on the machine, but I am backl on it.
[21:34:04] <R2E4_> The x andy are working. But I have to change the output of scalemax to - and trying to figure out how.
[21:34:45] <R2E4_> I think 5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0-scalemax -10 would do it
[21:35:45] <R2E4_> Pete, I did a button box also
[21:36:47] <dmz2> I see a teco 750w motor and drive for about $900
[21:37:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah I only have a couple buttons right now i wanted to machine a nice panel from aluminum plate before I add more buttons to the control. I want to do a lot of stuff with an wired MPG.
[21:37:23] <PetefromTn_> dmz2 I bought 1kw 2000 RPM teco motors and drives..
[21:37:58] <R2E4_> I used a drag bit on mine to engrave it on my bridgeport. Black powder coated panel. It came out ok
[21:38:16] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah that sounds nice...
[21:39:44] <PetefromTn_> I need to make one I have some ideas for it already. I need to get some nice buttons for it tho I got rid of all the old ones they were not that nice.
[21:39:59] <R2E4_> Going to do a small pvcyp panel for the axis gui
[21:40:34] <skunkworks> got to love hood. (never ever had any problems with mach - ever - always runs perfect.)
[21:40:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what I have a bunch of buttons on now. Like I said earlier with spindle RPM and spindle load etc.
[21:40:49] <skunkworks> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,26709.msg188958.html#msg188958
[21:52:11] <XXCoder> R2E4_: probably decau deom being unused so much
[21:52:26] <XXCoder> for example capactors usually blow after few years of zero charge
[21:52:33] <XXCoder> some ones anyway
[21:54:29] <R2E4_> yeah, thats what I figured.
[21:55:17] <R2E4_> They were asking 2500.00 for the memory board. I said suck eggs, just for the principal. And so I bought some mesa cards....lol
[21:55:38] <XXCoder> ow yeah not really worth that much money to repair it
[21:56:03] <XXCoder> hell $2,500 you can almost build 2'x3' cnc from a kits lol\
[22:01:36] <R2E4_> They are preying on the guys with the old machines needing boards. They jack the price cause they know you have no choice.
[22:02:18] <XXCoder> I guess its not being made anymore. so youre replacing controllers?
[22:02:59] <dmz2> That's why you just fix the board..
[22:03:35] <XXCoder> heh I'm glad I dont have to. I just plan to use a kit
[22:04:02] * XXCoder is not an engineer
[22:06:08] <R2E4_> I'm not fixing it. I ripped it out alonmg with all the copntroller stuff and put mesa cards and linuxcnc
[22:07:18] <R2E4_> OK, I'm stuck. I cannot find any docs on reversing the analogoutN-scalemax on a 7i77. GRRRR
[22:07:54] <R2E4_> easy to do in the ini file, but pcw dsaid dont dothat....lol
[22:09:28] <R2E4_> Pete: you cutting parts for moola npow?
[22:10:02] <XXCoder> wonder if it is possible to make drawer with cnc lol
[22:10:43] <PetefromTn_> whats moola npow?
[22:10:55] <XXCoder> money
[22:12:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah trying to.. Made some parts recently but now I am needing to machine some parts I designed for another customer.
[22:12:33] <pcw_home> R2E4_ if scalemax is setp'ed to 10, change it to -10. That's all there is to it
[22:12:34] <R2E4_> thats cool
[22:13:00] <PetefromTn_> I was hoping to have already made the part this week but have been doing a bunch of other stuff and working on the machine.
[22:16:19] <R2E4_> pcw: scalemax is setp to [axis_0] output_scale, so can I just change the output scale in the ini for the axis to -10? It is set to 10 now
[22:16:32] <pcw_home> Sure
[22:17:16] <R2E4_> lol, I've been racking my brain on this cause I thought you said to not do that....... hehe, thanks
[22:17:40] <R2E4_> btw, whats wrong with the negative P in the pid?
[22:17:53] <pcw_home> A bug
[22:18:38] <R2E4_> Ah....ook
[22:18:57] <XXCoder> what would this bug do
[22:19:06] <pcw_home> it will only show up if you have:
[22:19:07] <pcw_home> 1. a integral term and
[22:19:09] <pcw_home> 2. a integral limit
[22:19:12] <R2E4_> I dont want to find out.
[22:19:23] <pcw_home> cause a runaway...
[22:19:39] <pcw_home> (well ferror will catch)
[22:20:40] <pcw_home> negative P is ok it's the negative I that goes along with negative P that tickles the bug
[22:22:30] <pcw_home> It should be fairly easily fixable, just no one has bothered as you can always avoid negative PID parms some other way
[22:23:03] <PetefromTn_> pcw_home Hey man can I ask you a question about the spindle feedback setup we spoke about earlier?
[22:25:46] <R2E4_> thanks for the info pcw.
[22:26:11] <XXCoder> I wonder why bugs there
[22:26:16] <XXCoder> sounds like simple math error
[22:30:49] <pcw_home> it is a math error with the integral limit (and a negative I term) and the way the integral term is bounded
[22:32:51] <XXCoder> hmm ok
[22:33:04] <XXCoder> man I need to refresh calculus lol
[22:33:35] <PetefromTn_> I gotta figure out the best way to use this 180 out mask sensor on the spindle feedback here soon. Tonight we got the last of the proximity sensors hooked up and working in the control.
[22:35:07] <PetefromTn_> not sure the best way to go about it we are considering using either a custom made board with like an and circuit or try to do it in the software so that the spindle 12k RPM motor and 6k RPM spindle max speeds work with the encoder on the spindle motor.
[22:36:31] <PetefromTn_> I am sure there are other ways to do it as well but trying to determine the best way to deal with the high speed of the motor.
[22:38:37] <pcw_home> The high speed should not be in issue (the spindle index need only work at relatively low speeds)
[22:39:16] <PetefromTn_> how would you do this then Pete?
[22:39:41] <pcw_home> I wonder if it can in fact all be done in HAL
[22:39:43] <PetefromTn_> I would prefer to KEEP the available encoder inputs on the 7i77 board somehow.
[22:40:49] <PetefromTn_> what would be nice is to be able to plug in the spindle encoder to the fifth encoder input and then put the 180 out sensor into an I/O input but what speed do you think that will work max at?
[22:42:25] <PetefromTn_> I mean I know we will only be indexing and rigid tapping at slower speeds much less than 1k most likely but the spindle speed feedback will need to work all the way to the top.
[22:43:23] <pcw_home> the 1 KHz servo thread ought to be fast enough at the max 6 KHz spindle speed (5mS on/5mS off)
[22:43:43] <pcw_home> for the index masking
[22:44:40] <PetefromTn_> what is the 1khz servo thread? is that the max input on the 7i77?
[22:44:57] <PetefromTn_> for the I/0 Inputs.
[22:45:11] <pcw_home> that is your current servo thread period (AFAIK)
[22:46:39] <pcw_home> how is the spindle mask sensed?
[22:46:41] <PetefromTn_> so the 12k rpm rate is what the index will be max at 6k spindle speed on a 500 line encoder how do you figure out what the frequency will be..
[22:47:11] <PetefromTn_> it uses a proximity sensor on a half moon metal cam attached to the spindle timing belt pulley.
[22:48:30] <pcw_home> OK so the encoder should be adjusted so the index happens in the middle of the prox's on or off part
[22:49:17] <dmz2> gnight ppl
[22:49:20] <PetefromTn_> okay why is that?
[22:50:18] <pcw_home> because you want the best timing margin from a valid prox signal to the index
[22:51:17] <pcw_home> becuase the prox signal needs to always be valid before the index occurs
[22:52:04] <PetefromTn_> okay so if the prox signal is kinda slow it will have a chance to be right.
[22:53:58] <pcw_home> Yes, and further if the index masking logic is done in HAL another1 mS of timing is lost
[22:53:59] <pcw_home> (but at even 3K RPM or so spindle speed theres plenty of margin)
[22:54:37] <pcw_home> and you are unlikely to do tapping anywhere near that speed
[22:54:57] <PetefromTn_> yeah probably 500 or less at most.
[22:55:01] <pcw_home> (without a servo on the spindle)
[22:55:32] <PetefromTn_> well we are essentially turning the spindle motor into a servo right?
[22:58:00] <pcw_home> Yes essentially but a VFD can't reverse as fast
[22:58:27] <PetefromTn_> maybe but this thing reverses pretty damn quick at reasonable RPM.
[22:59:45] <pcw_home> Yeah but servos are different (a good brushless servo can get to 3000 RPM in less than a turn)
[23:00:05] <toastyde1th> Tru fax
[23:00:12] <toastyde1th> watching a tap reverse at that speed is ridiculous
[23:00:34] <PetefromTn_> seems like you would tear the belts off at that much speed LOL.
[23:02:48] <pcw_home> So as far as the index mask goes, I think its possible all in HAL with the right kind of helper component
[23:03:06] <PetefromTn_> helper component?
[23:03:42] <PetefromTn_> I know you can setup and or kinda stuff in there we used one to make the power drawbar button disabled when the spindle is turning.
[23:04:42] <pcw_home> prox just goes to a 7I77 input and the index enable signal is masked in HAL with this logically before being fed to the encoder
[23:05:40] <pcw_home> the trick is re-constructing the index enable signal that motion sees
[23:07:29] <PetefromTn_> so the encoder is hooked to encoder 5 as normal and the prox goes to an input in the I/0 area of the 7i77 not another encoder input right... Then the rest is hal magic.
[23:08:05] <pcw_home> That was my (possibly half baked) idea
[23:09:26] <PetefromTn_> what is the max rate that linuxCNC logic can handle any idea or is that the 1kw thing you talked about earlier?
[23:10:16] <pcw_home> I think 1 KHZ is probably about as fast as you can go with the motherboard you have
[23:10:45] <pcw_home> but that is not a limitation for this kind of thing
[23:11:29] <PetefromTn_> I guess it would not hurt to try it out this way. I have a digital tachometer here I can check things with.
[23:12:56] <pcw_home> the other option is for me to make a 5i25 config with index mask 5 on P2
[23:12:57] <pcw_home> (say at GPIO16) and loop it back to say GPIO17 and then feed the prox signal to GPIO17 output
[23:13:56] <PetefromTn_> would that be more reliable?
[23:14:34] <pcw_home> or add the feature of a software index mask to the encoder part of the driver
[23:15:08] <PetefromTn_> or like Connor is saying just use an external board to mask the output of the encoder.
[23:15:31] <PetefromTn_> which driver?
[23:15:42] <pcw_home> the HostMot2 driver
[23:16:32] <PetefromTn_> for the 5i25?
[23:16:49] <pcw_home> its the same for all cards
[23:17:37] <PetefromTn_> BRB I gotta switch to my smartphone so I can shut this computer down. just a couple minutes.
[23:17:41] <pcw_home> but yes its the mesa FPGA -<--> HAL interface
[23:32:16] <PetefromTn_Andro> Okay back again whadImiss?
[23:32:34] <XXCoder> New 20 axis machine
[23:33:14] <PetefromTn_Andro> I got all I can do with three or four hehehe
[23:33:35] <XXCoder> lol yeah no idea if it's even possible
[23:33:49] <XXCoder> highest cnc type I could find was 16 axis and it was wire bender
[23:33:58] <XXCoder> highest more regular cnc axis was 12
[23:36:31] <PetefromTn_Andro> pcw_home what were you saying about the 5i25 hostmot?
[23:36:35] <XXCoder> that machine had 3 lathe heads that can do some X, Z. It also has main part that can do x, y, z, rotate to change head type, rotate bit
[23:38:35] <tjtr33> just tried HeekCNC 1.0 under WIne . ng :( sounded great, has Cad Cam & solid simulation
[23:39:28] <PetefromTn_Andro> What's wrong with it?
[23:39:43] <tjtr33> Unhandled exception: unimplemented function msvcp90.dll.??0?$basic_ifstream@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@@std@@QAE@PBDHH@Z called in 32-bit code (0x7b83bc32).
[23:40:39] <PetefromTn_Andro> Oh so it won't run for you then?
[23:40:51] <tjtr33> heh
[23:40:57] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcDN_YB5EQc 12 axis
[23:40:59] <tjtr33> no
[23:41:11] <XXCoder> other one I menioned was 11 axis
[23:41:25] <PetefromTn_Andro> Sux
[23:43:30] <XXCoder> 11 axis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCRCcwDeKQ yes, its a ad
[23:44:40] <ChuangTzu> i watched that the other day
[23:45:18] <XXCoder> honestly 5 axis is enough for nearly everything
[23:45:31] <XXCoder> that machine seems very specialist
[23:45:31] <Connor> Hot wire foam cutter
[23:45:33] <tjtr33> i've seen that guy before, tie his hands up! i bet he cant talk
[23:47:12] <PetefromTn_Andro> Connor did you see what Pcw was saying about spindle mask?
[23:47:20] <Connor> You.
[23:47:28] <XXCoder> lol if you tie my hand I'd be unable to talk at all. Probably because I dont use voice to talk at all.
[23:47:30] <Connor> MIGHT be possible to do it with Hal magic..
[23:47:32] <XXCoder> *hands
[23:47:47] <Connor> or a custom hal component..
[23:48:00] <Connor> or possibly the 5i25 firmware..
[23:48:08] <Connor> but, that's not telling me HOW to do it. :)
[23:48:26] <PetefromTn_Andro> Yeah but I had to logoff my laptop when he was saying something bout a change in the hostmot or something
[23:48:33] <sabotender> heyla Connor
[23:49:07] <Connor> Having to re-install linuxcnc on my mill hard drive.. I think it got corrupted... backed the configs up before I started..
[23:49:20] <Connor> I hope their isn't something wrong with this mother board.. it's acting a bit strange..
[23:49:30] <Connor> loosing the time even after replacing the battery.
[23:49:47] <PetefromTn_Andro> Damn that bites.
[23:49:55] <Connor> Ah.. It's not biggie.
[23:50:15] <Connor> Probably should put a battery backup on the machine.
[23:50:56] <PetefromTn_Andro> I am pretty psyched at all we were able to accomplish today man we kicked ass LOL
[23:51:36] <Connor> Yea.. I need to sit down and map out the tool changer process... and start writing the scripts.
[23:51:49] <Connor> and some how simulate it.. possibly..
[23:52:25] <PetefromTn_Andro> That is some Chinese arithmetic shyte huh...just discussing it today was taxing
[23:52:44] <Connor> It's just code to me. :)
[23:53:04] <PetefromTn_Andro> But yeah we are almost to that point man won't be long.
[23:53:29] <XXCoder> jkeep on rocking man'
[23:53:50] <PetefromTn_Andro> I'll probably crap my pants when the thing does its first successful toolchange.
[23:54:17] <XXCoder> easy
[23:54:23] <XXCoder> bring couple underwears and pants
[23:55:21] <tjtr33> you guys get Z motion during tool change handled? a PID loop under Hal control? super-realxed in-position parms?
[23:55:31] <PetefromTn_Andro> Really glad we did the modbus thing with the spindle control adding those meters and alarms was much easier than lots of extra wiring etc.
[23:56:44] <PetefromTn_Andro> Connor is thinking we will use remap for the whole thing.
[23:59:50] <PetefromTn_Andro> Well I'm going ta bed cya guys tomorrow ....