#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-12

[03:05:20] <Deejay> moin
[03:06:12] <Jymmm> way late. day off?
[03:06:43] <Deejay> hi jymmm
[03:07:21] <Deejay> its still before midnight, isn't it?
[03:07:31] <Jymmm> 00:50
[03:07:37] <Jymmm> almost 1am
[03:07:43] <Deejay> oh
[03:07:52] <Jymmm> But, we're in DST now
[03:07:55] <Deejay> so its only 8 hours time difference
[03:08:05] <kengu> it is 0951
[03:08:18] <Deejay> 0851, without dst
[03:09:20] <Deejay> i think the switch to DST will be last weekend in march
[03:51:15] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:53:24] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i think Deejay suffers from "senile insomnia"... he gets up with the hens ;-)
[03:54:38] <Loetmichel> instead of sleeping in every other dy like normal people ;-)
[03:55:24] * Loetmichel was late to work half an hour ... the the seventh tie this month ;-)
[03:55:28] <Loetmichel> time
[04:03:53] <Deejay> morning Loetmichel :)
[04:04:07] <GuShh_Lap2> Loetmichel: you need a turbo scooter
[04:30:09] <Loetmichel> i have a turbo car
[04:30:16] <Loetmichel> @ GuShh_Lap2
[04:30:50] <Loetmichel> but that doesent hep when you start your commute at 08:30 when you supposed to be there at 0800 ;-)
[04:31:50] <Loetmichel> help
[04:32:10] <Loetmichel> unless the car can do the kessel run in 12 parsecs ;-)
[04:32:44] <GuShh_Lap2> should do it in under 12!
[04:33:02] * Tom_itx gives Loetmichel a Delorean
[04:49:05] * GuShh_Lap2 steals Loetmichel's Delorean, goes back in time to the point when Tom_itx gives Loetmichel a Delorean and repeats the process, reselling them in between and making sure to carry the cash with him in the original Delorean, he then heads out to Vegas.
[05:21:34] <xxoxx> anybody using touch screen ?
[05:29:11] <jthornton> yes
[05:57:01] <jthornton> must have been a survey...
[06:06:30] <archivist_herron> where do I answer, have but dont use touch screen :)
[06:06:32] <jthornton> Gaelic ” hEarŠin Ďdescendant of EarŠní
[06:06:47] <jthornton> lol
[06:59:21] <_methods> is there a table to adjust work offset values in axis?
[07:03:23] <jthornton> what are you trying to do?
[07:03:45] <_methods> make the work offset a couple thou deeper
[07:03:49] <_methods> i could use a tool offset
[07:04:03] <_methods> but i just don't see anywhere to adjust my work offset position
[07:04:14] <jthornton> the touch off box
[07:04:19] <_methods> are you guys using g10 to do work shift adjustments?
[07:05:15] <_methods> there's no table where i can go and make adjustments to work offsets?
[07:05:18] <jthornton> can't recall that I ever made a work shift adjustment
[07:05:23] <jthornton> no
[07:05:24] <_methods> really?
[07:05:31] <_methods> have you ever run a real cnc?
[07:05:36] <_methods> like in fanuc
[07:05:42] <jthornton> have you seen my shop?
[07:05:46] <_methods> no
[07:06:17] <_methods> i can just plug in a number for my work position
[07:06:27] <jthornton> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml
[07:06:28] <_methods> at a regular control
[07:06:43] <_methods> i just assumed there would be a work offset page
[07:06:50] <jthornton> so your talking about a tool wear offset?
[07:06:50] <_methods> looks like you have to go modify var file
[07:06:52] <_methods> then reset
[07:06:56] <_methods> no not tool wear
[07:06:58] <_methods> work offse
[07:07:01] <_methods> g54
[07:07:02] <_methods> g55
[07:07:04] <_methods> g56
[07:07:08] <_methods> .....
[07:07:19] <jthornton> use G10
[07:07:30] <_methods> ok so that's the "normal" way to do it
[07:07:38] <_methods> in linuxcnc lol
[07:07:44] <_methods> just checking
[07:08:06] <jthornton> G10 L2 or G10 L20
[07:08:10] <_methods> yeah
[07:08:48] <_methods> interesting
[07:08:53] <_methods> there's a tool table
[07:08:58] <_methods> why not a work offset table?
[07:09:10] <jthornton> I use G10 L20 with a button to touch off my work in my Hardinge CHNC
[07:09:26] <_methods> yeah i use g10 at the beginning of my programs
[07:09:41] <_methods> that way the operators don't have to load any offsets
[07:09:46] <_methods> they just double check
[07:09:51] <_methods> put the vises where they need to go
[07:09:58] <_methods> hit the green button
[07:11:39] <_methods> so nine offsets is the limit for linuxcnc?
[07:15:33] <Tom_itx> you can't edit the G54...59 values in memory?
[07:15:54] <_methods> says you need to reset linuxcnc after editing the var file
[07:16:09] <_methods> i have no idea about editing it in memory
[07:16:16] <Tom_itx> so it gets re'read
[07:16:20] <_methods> with G10
[07:16:22] <_methods> i guess
[07:16:31] <_methods> but other than that or g92 i don't know how
[07:17:30] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G54-G59_3
[07:17:35] <Tom_itx> starting with 5223
[07:17:36] <_methods> i've seen posts where people ar asking the same question i am
[07:17:38] <Tom_itx> for Z
[07:17:52] <_methods> but no one seems to ever address it
[07:18:02] <Tom_itx> ask in devel
[07:18:06] <Tom_itx> maybe they know
[07:18:09] <_methods> k
[07:18:14] <Tom_itx> (they should)
[07:18:26] <_methods> honestly i'm not that worried about it
[07:18:31] <_methods> i'll just use g10
[07:18:34] <_methods> that works for me
[07:18:51] <_methods> i'm not picky lol
[07:18:53] <Tom_itx> you should be able to change a fixture offset value without having to restart lcnc
[07:18:55] <Tom_itx> for sure....
[07:18:57] <_methods> i just thought maybe i was missing something lol
[07:19:57] <_methods> and 9 work offsets is no big deal for me and my little tiny mill
[07:19:59] <PetefromTn_> you are wanting to be able to go to a table and manually change the offset for say G55 etc then?
[07:20:03] <_methods> yeah
[07:20:12] <_methods> like a regular fanuc controller
[07:20:16] <PetefromTn_> I have wondered if this is possible as well..
[07:20:18] <Tom_itx> it would be poor design if you couldn't edit it on the fly
[07:20:35] <Tom_itx> i sure know you can on 'real' controls
[07:20:39] <PetefromTn_> I can see where it would be nice to do air cuts say and then change the offset with an inch change
[07:20:45] <_methods> yeah
[07:20:51] <_methods> you put that in g53
[07:20:52] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ i do that
[07:20:54] <Tom_itx> currently
[07:20:55] <_methods> add a z10
[07:20:57] <_methods> or whatever
[07:21:06] <_methods> it will raise your table 10 global
[07:21:18] <PetefromTn_> what does that mean?
[07:21:25] <Tom_itx> i just set the regular work offset for that
[07:21:26] <_methods> it's a global work shift
[07:21:29] <Tom_itx> like G54 etc
[07:21:35] <_methods> you can do that
[07:21:44] <_methods> but what if i'm i want to raise 5 fixtures
[07:21:46] <_methods> at one time
[07:21:50] <_methods> i put it in g53
[07:21:57] <Tom_itx> change 5 numbers at one time :)
[07:22:08] <_methods> why change 5 when i can change 1
[07:22:13] <Tom_itx> can you though?
[07:22:19] <_methods> yeah i do it all the time
[07:22:21] <PetefromTn_> it would seem that a table with all the available offsets listed and modifiable would be advantageous.
[07:22:35] <Tom_itx> then what is the real question?
[07:22:36] <_methods> uh yeah that's kinda why i thought there would be one lol
[07:22:47] <_methods> i was just asking if there was a table lol
[07:22:50] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ there is
[07:23:01] <PetefromTn_> where?
[07:23:01] <_methods> taht i could change in real time
[07:23:48] <Tom_itx> stored in a file in your ini directory
[07:23:57] <Tom_itx> same as your tool table is
[07:24:16] <PetefromTn_> but there is no offset editor like the tool table editor right?
[07:24:23] <_methods> yes but you have to restart linuxcnc to initialize it
[07:24:29] <Tom_itx> _methods i agree there should be a method to reload it
[07:24:40] <_methods> like i said it's no biggie
[07:24:49] <_methods> i was just trying to see if there was one
[07:24:50] <Tom_itx> you can certainly edit the memory on a regular control with no problems
[07:24:52] <_methods> i had no idea
[07:25:18] <_methods> like there is a tool table
[07:25:25] <_methods> i thought there would be a work offset table
[07:25:31] <_methods> and i was just an idiot and overlooking it
[07:25:44] <_methods> which happens quite commonly as my wife will tellyou
[07:25:48] <Tom_itx> there is but i don't know if it's reloadable
[07:26:13] <_methods> k
[07:26:17] <_methods> well g10 works for me
[07:26:19] <_methods> it's easy enough
[07:26:23] <Tom_itx> i know the G54..59 are
[07:26:25] <PetefromTn_> I would not consider the .ini file a table that is commonly editable..
[07:26:41] <Tom_itx> i didn't say it was
[07:26:48] <Tom_itx> i said the table is in the same directory
[07:27:46] <PetefromTn_> what would be nice is another tap atop the viewscreen that has offsets inside it and is user editable.
[07:28:29] <Tom_itx> starting with 5161 going to 5390
[07:28:39] <Tom_itx> xxx.var
[07:28:45] <Tom_itx> whatever you named your ini
[07:29:09] <PetefromTn_> honestly I am quite enjoying linuxCNC but one thing I miss is the ability to easily zero an axis without affecting the G54 offset to do things like adjust for edge finders or circle center finding etc.
[07:30:07] <Tom_itx> do math on it
[07:30:11] <_methods> hehe
[07:30:12] <_methods> yeah
[07:30:12] <Tom_itx> i have buttons for that
[07:30:28] <_methods> hehe how hard is it to subtract or add .1
[07:30:29] <_methods> lol
[07:30:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah there is enough math to be done little things like that make life easier and setups quicker.
[07:30:52] <_methods> i know i'm just messin with ya
[07:31:18] <PetefromTn_> besides my damn edge finder is 10mm and I have to setup in inch so it is not just a .1...
[07:31:20] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ set up some pyvcp buttons for it
[07:31:30] <_methods> i feel bad when i use these new machines with that touch off pad on them
[07:31:42] <_methods> i don't even have to zero my tools
[07:31:51] <_methods> or load a tool length
[07:31:54] <PetefromTn_> I'm working on that for my VMC right now..
[07:32:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/screenshot.png
[07:32:13] <Tom_itx> that's what those buttons bottom right are for
[07:32:37] <Tom_itx> if you touch off the same location each time
[07:32:47] <Tom_itx> if you use the other end of the vise for example, it will be off
[07:33:21] <PetefromTn_> what exactly does the zero axis button do in this instance?
[07:33:32] <PetefromTn_> besides the obvious I mean...
[07:33:36] <Tom_itx> sets the G54 fixture offset
[07:33:44] <Tom_itx> it runs a subroutine
[07:33:57] <Tom_itx> the sub can do anything you want... even sink
[07:33:58] <PetefromTn_> okay so that is no different than clicking touch off and selecting G54.
[07:34:17] <Tom_itx> no but i can add in the wiggler distance there
[07:34:52] <PetefromTn_> Perhaps what I am looking for is an independent DRO that can be set at zero at any point but has no bearing on machine movement.
[07:35:14] <Tom_itx> have you looked at the DRO screen?
[07:35:21] <Tom_itx> maybe you can... i don't use it much
[07:35:43] <PetefromTn_> that way you could measure distances or offset tools like the edge finder or center a circle without having to touch off an actual work coordinate.
[07:38:48] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn_: i like the linuxcnc especially for the ability to run a camera ;-)
[07:39:14] <PetefromTn_> Right now I am just looking forward to having spindle feedback and load metering thru my VFD/modbus setup.
[07:39:33] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14199&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[07:39:40] <PetefromTn_> Loetmichel Yeah I know some people use the cameras for stuff I think that is probably more of a hobby thing.
[07:39:41] <Loetmichel> VERY useful if ot near the machine ;-)=
[07:39:49] <Loetmichel> not
[07:40:00] <Loetmichel> not for measuring.
[07:40:13] <Loetmichel> for looking for broken mill bits from the diostanve
[07:40:30] <Loetmichel> distance
[07:40:45] <PetefromTn_> when my machine is running there is so much coolant going everywhere it is difficult to see the part let alone film it.
[07:40:48] <Loetmichel> because my office is not as loud as the workshop ;-)
[07:41:01] <Tom_itx> maybe not as dangerous either
[07:42:07] <Loetmichel> and i can do other work while the machine is running
[07:42:36] <PetefromTn_> I always figured at some point I would be able to walk away from the machine while it is running..
[07:42:56] <PetefromTn_> but honestly most of the parts I do the run time is maybe twenty minutes at best or less..
[07:43:06] <Tom_itx> that _is_ a benefit of cnc
[07:43:59] <PetefromTn_> once the toolchanger is working and I have a product that is running under a proven code I am sure I could walk away but it would only be for the cycle so it is not really a big deal since they are pretty short really.
[07:44:10] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn_: my last par did run about 4 hrs
[07:44:12] <Tom_itx> besides PetefromTn_... admit it.. you like standing there watching it run!
[07:44:37] <PetefromTn_> well yeah when it is running correctly it is a thing of beauty ;)
[07:45:17] <Loetmichel> thats the part i made yesterday
[07:45:21] <Tom_itx> aluminum parts cycle times are usually reasonablly low
[07:45:22] <PetefromTn_> yesterday I was just making some simple sacrificial vise jaws and just drilling and milling some counterbored holes but it was still fun to watch it do its thing..
[07:45:26] <Tom_itx> start cutting TI or steel
[07:45:32] <Tom_itx> etc
[07:45:41] <Loetmichel> milling down that much 8mm aluminium sheet with a 3mm mill buit takes its time ;-)
[07:45:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14766&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[07:46:25] <PetefromTn_> well honeslty even in that pro shop I worked in before they only cut steels and tool steels no aluminum and multiple parts on fixtures at a time and the cycle times were still reasonably quick,,
[07:47:29] <PetefromTn_> they musta had 25 Haas VMC's in one room and next door they had a couple Haas turning centers.
[07:47:55] <Loetmichel> i make prototypes on that machine
[07:47:57] <Loetmichel> "machine"
[07:48:14] <Loetmichel> so may be 3 or 4 identical parts, not mor
[07:48:15] <Loetmichel> e
[07:48:39] <Loetmichel> the series we give out
[07:49:22] <PetefromTn_> we made some tool steel parts that ran like nine at a time on these long tall steel fixtures and it was not unusual to be watching two or three machines at once and just loading parts and removing parts as needed when one ended kinda juggling them.
[07:50:40] <PetefromTn_> That kinda work is what I am HOPING to get in here so I can just run the machine and make money with it instead of all the one off and very short run work I am currently doing. it is just too time consuming and not enough cash in it.
[07:51:12] <_methods> yeah most small shop guys charge too little
[07:51:15] <_methods> to pay the bills
[07:51:22] <_methods> or whatever
[07:51:35] <_methods> i send customers askin for those prices packing
[07:51:51] <_methods> tooling is expensive
[07:52:48] <PetefromTn_> when you are a small shop with little exposure it is hard to turn away any work but I agree some of them ya just gotta send packin'.. I have done it several times now. I am also choosy about who I take work for because I cannot afford to be burnt on a job right now.
[07:53:45] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, my bud stared out the same way.. doing crap work for companies that didn't wanna pay
[07:53:46] <PetefromTn_> having said that just one good decent paying product that I can make here for a customer repeatedly would really change things for me in the shop.
[07:54:13] <PetefromTn_> ya gotta start somewhere.
[07:54:32] <Tom_itx> got his foot in the aircraft door doing experimental parts
[07:54:46] <PetefromTn_> I think at this point now tho I am FINALLY in a position where the machine works well and I have adequate tooling and the software I need to do whatever comes in the door for the most part.
[07:54:52] <Tom_itx> then jpats then production started increasing
[07:55:04] <PetefromTn_> jpats?
[07:55:10] <Tom_itx> military trainer
[07:55:37] <Tom_itx> was bid on by several aircraft companies here
[07:55:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah ya see it is work like that I would lOVE to get my hands on. something interesting that pays reasonably and has an ongoing demand.
[07:55:59] <_methods> haha everyone wants taht lol
[07:56:03] <Tom_itx> move
[07:56:04] <Tom_itx> :D
[07:56:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah and lots of folks have it..
[07:56:13] <Tom_itx> this is a big aircraft town
[07:56:26] <_methods> that damn as9100
[07:56:28] <_methods> is a bitch
[07:56:48] <_methods> we're just starting to ramp up to get certified
[07:56:56] <PetefromTn_> I know shops around here make parts for the big boat industry locally. Many of the shops make custom parts for the wakeboard boats and the wakeboard towers etc...
[07:57:05] <Tom_itx> i remember when we had to get iso9000 certified
[07:57:11] <Tom_itx> for Boeing
[07:57:12] <_methods> yeah iso is easy
[07:57:21] <_methods> as9100 is a bitch
[07:57:22] <Tom_itx> but never got anything from them after doing so
[07:57:29] <Tom_itx> fackers
[07:57:31] <_methods> hehe
[07:57:55] <_methods> you chicago?
[07:57:59] <Tom_itx> KS
[07:58:04] <_methods> ah
[07:58:13] <PetefromTn_> The parts are actually quite simple from what I have seen.. much less complex than say the sidewheels I made.
[07:58:17] <_methods> yeah that's a big aviation area
[07:59:01] <Tom_itx> boeing, spirit, cessna, learjet, beech to name a few
[07:59:08] <_methods> yeah
[07:59:21] <_methods> you almost have to be as9100 around there
[07:59:26] <_methods> i'm guessing
[07:59:32] <Tom_itx> probably so nowdays
[07:59:45] <Tom_itx> i know most of them run Catia now
[07:59:52] <_methods> ugh
[07:59:57] <PetefromTn_> I am quite sure I would never be able to get any work from places like that working from my small shop.
[07:59:57] <Tom_itx> :)
[08:00:07] <_methods> you'd be suprised
[08:00:07] <Tom_itx> sure you can
[08:00:13] <_methods> we do stupid stuff for boeing
[08:00:16] <_methods> lifts
[08:00:18] <Tom_itx> even 3rd party vendors offload work
[08:00:19] <_methods> scaffolding
[08:00:25] <_methods> rails
[08:00:26] <PetefromTn_> there is no way I can even get that kind certs..
[08:00:33] <Tom_itx> why the hell not?
[08:00:34] <_methods> we don't make plane parts
[08:00:53] <Tom_itx> it's _just_ paperwork :)
[08:00:57] <_methods> lots
[08:01:12] <_methods> it's our inventory that's the problem
[08:01:14] <PetefromTn_> I just need a frackin' foot in the door so I can show people I can make good parts somewhere that needs parts made and I am trying to find that now.
[08:01:18] <_methods> we need to clean up our tracking
[08:01:19] <Tom_itx> they need a blame path is all
[08:01:23] <_methods> material certs
[08:01:38] <PetefromTn_> no not material certs I can get those.
[08:01:50] <_methods> no we need them tracked beter lol
[08:01:59] <_methods> right now our inventory is a disaster
[08:02:02] <_methods> plates and bars all over
[08:02:04] <_methods> mixed up
[08:02:12] <_methods> i mean we know where stuff is
[08:02:14] <_methods> and what it si
[08:02:23] <_methods> but for as9100 it's a no go
[08:02:42] <Tom_itx> it just drives the cost up
[08:02:49] <PetefromTn_> I met with a local machine shop recently twice now and they say they will be willing to let me make some parts for them they cannot get to but so far I am hearing crickets.
[08:03:04] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn_. my ex boss said once: "there are jobs that atre more fun when the competition has to do them"
[08:03:06] <Tom_itx> keep after them
[08:03:13] <Loetmichel> ... he is TOTALLY right ;-)
[08:03:19] <_methods> Loetmichel: yep
[08:03:52] <_methods> PetefromTn_: don't go to machine shops
[08:03:57] <PetefromTn_> With basically a very low overhead I could be profitable on jobs most shops could not get away with... but having said that I don't want the shit jobs either LOL.
[08:04:14] <Tom_itx> you gotta start there though
[08:04:19] <_methods> what sort of industry do you hve in your area?
[08:04:24] <_methods> you need to go there
[08:04:27] <_methods> saw mills
[08:04:31] <Tom_itx> we started out doing alot of 2.5d stuff
[08:04:32] <_methods> trains
[08:04:35] <PetefromTn_> mostly boat manufacturing...
[08:04:38] <_methods> hit them
[08:04:44] <_methods> their maintenance dept
[08:04:51] <_methods> they will have stuff they dont' want to do
[08:04:53] <_methods> or can't do
[08:05:06] <_methods> try and get the names of the maint supervisors
[08:05:15] <_methods> and go face to face
[08:05:17] <Tom_itx> probably not much _production_ runs there though
[08:05:20] <PetefromTn_> maintenance dept is gonna be one off repair stuff all the time right..?
[08:05:23] <_methods> yeah
[08:05:27] <_methods> but it's a foot in the door
[08:05:39] <_methods> you may get small production jobs out of it
[08:05:44] <_methods> or see something you can do faster
[08:05:52] <Tom_itx> it's how you get started for sure
[08:06:04] <_methods> they may need a bracket
[08:06:07] <_methods> or something like that
[08:06:09] <Tom_itx> then they may know of a guy that knows another guy....
[08:06:18] <_methods> yeah
[08:06:23] <PetefromTn_> Its possible I will look into it. I have actually considered running down there to the moomba and searay shops and ask them if there is anything I can do for them.
[08:06:32] <_methods> i would
[08:06:45] <_methods> we get lots of work from a couple boat companies like that
[08:06:46] <Tom_itx> you'll get one of two answers :)
[08:06:55] <_methods> scout boat
[08:06:55] <PetefromTn_> exactly...
[08:06:57] <_methods> and key west
[08:07:05] <PetefromTn_> key west makes NICE boats..
[08:07:09] <_methods> and zodiac
[08:07:22] <Tom_itx> probably lots of SS parts
[08:07:27] <_methods> we make brackets
[08:07:31] <_methods> and moutning plates for them
[08:07:32] <PetefromTn_> I'm good with that.....
[08:07:36] <_methods> small production
[08:07:38] <_methods> nothign big
[08:07:41] <_methods> but ti all adds up
[08:07:54] <PetefromTn_> The Cincinatti does real nice in steel and stainless from what I have done so far.
[08:08:00] <_methods> but we got in through the maint depts
[08:08:07] <PetefromTn_> right now ANY production would be great...
[08:08:07] <_methods> do a couple repair jobs
[08:08:20] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_, how is the tool changer coming?
[08:08:29] <PetefromTn_> it is coming man...
[08:08:46] <PetefromTn_> got most of the electronics sorted. Still working on the damn spindle encoder gotta make that mount.
[08:09:07] <PetefromTn_> Got someone coming to see my house today so gotta clean everything up and make it pretty until they leave.
[08:09:45] <PetefromTn_> We got the spindle control setup the other day via serial modbus and it works great now. Fixed a noise error issue I was having with the mesa setup 0-10v which was nice.
[08:10:12] <_methods> you got umbrella tool changer or a real tool changer?
[08:10:15] <PetefromTn_> No fault of the mesa car probably just a wiring issue on my part.
[08:10:30] <PetefromTn_> umbrella and far as I can tell it is real...
[08:10:33] <_methods> hehe
[08:10:43] <_methods> i hate umbrellas lol
[08:10:46] <PetefromTn_> cat40 tooling. rigid tap etc.
[08:10:51] <Tom_itx> a place i visited once had a 119 tool changer
[08:10:55] <_methods> yeah
[08:10:59] <_methods> 6 pallets
[08:10:59] <Tom_itx> belt
[08:11:02] <_methods> 380 tools
[08:11:03] <Tom_itx> yeah
[08:11:06] <_methods> is sexy
[08:11:14] <Tom_itx> auto pallet changers etc
[08:11:19] <_methods> oh yeah
[08:11:20] <PetefromTn_> probably cost a fortune..
[08:11:23] <Tom_itx> job scheduling...
[08:11:32] <_methods> big money
[08:11:35] <PetefromTn_> need to make some serious parts to pay for that monster...
[08:11:45] <_methods> yeah you need work for that
[08:11:53] <_methods> hehe company here got a job for mercedes
[08:12:01] <_methods> so they bought this giant okuma line
[08:12:04] <PetefromTn_> where is here?
[08:12:04] <_methods> 6 mills
[08:12:08] <_methods> charleston sc
[08:12:13] <_methods> and robot cells
[08:12:15] <Tom_itx> i like okuma
[08:12:19] <_methods> then they pulled the job
[08:12:20] <PetefromTn_> oh hell you are not far from me at all...
[08:12:27] <_methods> stuck them with the machines lol
[08:12:37] <_methods> hell yeah okuma
[08:12:40] <_methods> is the shit
[08:12:40] <Tom_itx> they failed to get a work guarantee huh?
[08:12:43] <_methods> yeah
[08:12:51] <_methods> they did succeed in getting fucked
[08:12:57] <PetefromTn_> meh just company bankruptcy everyone keeps their houses...
[08:13:04] <Tom_itx> some of the aircraft would finance machines for my bud
[08:13:11] <Tom_itx> as a guarantee
[08:14:11] <_methods> yeah they did file too
[08:14:17] <Tom_itx> his brother owns a chain of banks here though so that sorta helped
[08:14:17] <PetefromTn_> actually charleston is kinda far looking at the map.
[08:14:21] <_methods> hehe yeah
[08:14:26] <_methods> probably 14 hours?
[08:14:31] <PetefromTn_> sure.
[08:14:57] <_methods> yeah all the employees got lost their vacation
[08:15:04] <_methods> my buddy had 60 days lol
[08:15:06] <_methods> doh
[08:15:13] <PetefromTn_> well if any of you come across something you think I can do here like what I am looking for give me a holler okay LOL ;)
[08:15:29] <_methods> yeah if i run across anything
[08:15:52] <PetefromTn_> I would sure appreciate it.
[08:16:26] <PetefromTn_> In the mean time I am making these airgun accessories and trying to get them sorted out. Probably not much market for them but it is something.
[08:16:47] <PetefromTn_> methods did you see my wheels I made first project on the machine?
[08:17:13] <_methods> no
[08:17:22] <_methods> pics
[08:18:02] <PetefromTn_> http://imagebin.org/298952
[08:18:40] <_methods> oh damn
[08:18:41] <_methods> nice man
[08:18:45] <PetefromTn_> http://imagebin.org/298953
[08:19:00] <PetefromTn_> not bad for a first job...
[08:19:18] <Tom_itx> how far do you deliver? :)
[08:19:19] <_methods> alum?
[08:19:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah aluminum...
[08:19:38] <_methods> you start from round?
[08:19:39] <PetefromTn_> Not really a big deal I am used to shipping stuff around..
[08:19:46] <PetefromTn_> no plate..
[08:19:52] <_methods> ah
[08:19:55] <_methods> 1/2"?
[08:20:00] <PetefromTn_> 3/4
[08:20:14] <_methods> waterjetted?
[08:20:16] <_methods> or plas
[08:20:32] <PetefromTn_> cnc milled then finished in lathe.
[08:20:37] <_methods> oh ouch
[08:20:42] <_methods> you cut squares out or rounds?
[08:21:12] <PetefromTn_> I bought bar stock wide enough for the part and cut it in bandsaw then into the VMC.
[08:21:12] <jdh_> nice wheels. ugly ass background :)
[08:21:31] <_methods> haha
[08:21:37] <_methods> ah ok
[08:21:49] <PetefromTn_> Hey asshole that is my wife's favorite valentines day blanket I bought for here ;)
[08:21:55] <_methods> hahahahha
[08:22:29] <Tom_itx> and she let you put those dirty parts on it...
[08:22:31] <PetefromTn_> I just took a quick picture outside to show the customer.
[08:22:33] <jdh_> it's ok, my wife likes ugly ass blankets also
[08:22:42] <PetefromTn_> no I washed them before...
[08:23:16] <PetefromTn_> I guess one mans ugly ass in another mans beautiful...
[08:23:33] <PetefromTn_> jeez did I just say that...LOL
[08:23:37] <jdh_> slip fit on the scope 'hsndle'?
[08:23:48] <jdh_> yes, you did say that.
[08:23:52] <jdh_> handle
[08:24:13] <_methods> ahh so do you just copy the machines ladder into classic ladder for tool changers and coolant pumps and stuff?
[08:24:35] <PetefromTn_> no actually there is a removable boss that has a cool sinusoidal pocket that goes on the scope knob. That boss has a delrin crush sleeve that compresses onto it to hold on.
[08:25:27] <PetefromTn_> It is actaully the coolest sidewheel I have seen anywhere but so far I have only sold a couple. All that work for frackin' nothing.
[08:25:52] <PetefromTn_> methods... no idea man still working on that part...
[08:26:07] <_methods> interesting
[08:26:24] <_methods> i need to look into this classic ladder
[08:26:27] <_methods> that's cool as hell
[08:26:36] <_methods> you can use your pc as a plc
[08:26:45] <PetefromTn_> it's just a PC based PLC...
[08:26:48] <_methods> yeah
[08:27:21] <_methods> i need to read that integration manual lol
[08:27:33] <PetefromTn_> me too..
[08:27:56] <_methods> would be fun to just play with classic ladder
[08:32:49] <PetefromTn_> startin to get some of that heavy wind here now..
[08:46:21] <JT-Shop> I have a classicladder sim you can play with
[09:10:26] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop Hey man have you been playing with that ladder setup for your bridgie at all?
[09:14:38] <PetefromTn_> Connor Hey man just noticed we left your three jaw Chuck wrench key here sitting on the table. bummer man.
[09:14:58] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: lol
[09:36:14] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, I've not been able to sit still long enough
[09:48:27] <Loetmichel> Jymmm. what lol?
[09:48:46] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: to your comment
[09:53:08] <kengu> servo for the poor ones, http://www.sainsmart.com/29-1-metal-gearmotor-37dx52l-mm-with-64-cpr-encoder-12v-365rpm.html
[09:55:51] <Loetmichel> which?
[09:55:53] <Loetmichel> time?
[09:56:38] <Loetmichel> kengu: i have "a few" of these
[09:56:47] <Loetmichel> theiy're nice
[09:57:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13519
[09:57:11] <Loetmichel> without the gearbox
[09:57:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13248
[09:57:53] <kengu> I am thinking of scarabuild so the gearbox is good
[09:57:57] <kengu> Loetmichel: good.
[09:58:05] <Loetmichel> we had a few "spare" laserprinters at the company to discard. and the recycling guy wanted them only if we remove the plasitc cover... so i dismantled them a bit further ;-)
[09:58:29] <skunkworks> kengu, backlash is bad...
[09:58:50] <kengu> yeah. it is always good when there is a supply of n pcs of same equipment
[09:58:55] <Loetmichel> the servops are 24V, 2A and have 100cpr encoders on the back
[09:59:01] <Loetmichel> not SO bad for free ,-)
[09:59:36] <Loetmichel> got 18 servos, 2 times 18 steppers and a few fans out of it ,-)
[10:02:20] <kengu> nice
[10:03:42] <Loetmichel> sometimes its good to be the production manager
[10:16:21] <PetefromTn_> I remember in a past life I used to work on computers and copiers and fax machines. We would often scrap old machines to the junker guys and It never occurred to me all the stepper motors and shafts and springs in them could be used to make something with LOL...
[10:16:55] <archivist_herron> power screw driver, disassemble :)
[10:18:00] <PetefromTn_> yup!!
[10:19:56] <archivist_herron> you actually make more money when you then take the separated metals to the scrap yard :)
[10:28:38] <Loetmichel> screwdriver? on modern IT tech?
[10:28:40] <Loetmichel> for what?
[10:28:54] <Loetmichel> most of it is clipped these days
[10:29:07] <Loetmichel> you should see my boss when i dismantle monitors
[10:29:32] <Loetmichel> *KNACK* *KNIRK* *CLICK*....*CRACK* "ups"
[10:29:59] <Loetmichel> because we sheild them and put them back together and sell tehem
[10:31:29] <PetefromTn_> well guys.....I just got a call back from a local machine shop that I visited two times to see about getting some work from them. They want me to come in and interview sorta. I am gonna head over there after lunch. With any luck I will be able to get some work from them and get this machine going. WISH ME LUCK PLEASE!! If you are the prayin' sort that is good too!!
[10:35:00] <tjtr33> show them your stuff! they'll be impressed
[10:35:14] <skunkworks> Good luck! (I am more of an 'ask the universe' kinda guy...
[10:36:34] <CaptHindsight> are the Gecko stepper drivers 2X the price of others just because they can or what do you get for the price? longer warranty? better docs?
[10:36:47] <PetefromTn_> I hope so thanks tjtr33 Skunkie.... Appreciate it.. what does the Ask the Universe thing mean?
[10:37:31] <PetefromTn_> oh you mean like you are a kinda buddhist one with the world kinda guy?
[10:39:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140312-world-first-3d-printed-3d-acoustic-cloak-hides-objects-from-sound.html now to turn these into earplugs
[10:39:49] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight I dunno about the stepper drives but they DID have a one time return policy no questions asked where if you had a problem you can send the drive back for replacement. After that they want to have you send the drive in for repair. I sent one in and had it repaired but it was repairable. They gave me a discounted price on another one. this was for the servo drives not steppers tho.
[10:39:59] <_methods> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kFWR4_PqIo&feature=share&list=UUZ0E_lPE90tst5UZQL7fYrg
[10:40:12] <_methods> hehe 343IPM
[10:40:55] <_methods> .06" DOC
[10:42:32] <PetefromTn_> I need one of those LOL...
[10:42:43] <_methods> they're great for removing lots of material
[10:42:49] <_methods> inserts last forever
[10:42:57] <_methods> and they take interrupted cuts like nothing else
[10:43:03] <_methods> the finish sucks though
[10:43:04] <PetefromTn_> what is the model number..
[10:43:10] <_methods> but they are for roughing
[10:43:21] <_methods> i hear tungalloy has a better one
[10:43:45] <_methods> i think their equivalent will take .08 DOC
[10:44:02] <PetefromTn_> any idea on the RPM there?
[10:44:09] <_methods> rpm wqas 1100
[10:44:21] <PetefromTn_> number of inseerts
[10:44:52] <_methods> 8
[10:45:23] <_methods> but they are 8 sided
[10:46:15] <_methods> shit i can't find the part #
[10:50:14] <PetefromTn_> so its one of those octogonal surfacing cutters I think we used those in the shop I worked in local here.
[10:51:24] <PetefromTn_> does that look like cat40 or 50 to you?
[10:58:20] <_methods> no it's 4 sided
[10:58:29] <_methods> but both sides of insert work
[11:00:11] <PetefromTn_> okay yeah these were octagonal and both sides worked... but it was a facemill strictly...
[11:01:24] <_methods> yeah taht is a highfeed cutter with special insert geometry and lead angle
[11:02:53] <_methods> man their website sucks
[11:03:33] <_methods> http://www.directindustry.com/prod/ingersoll-cutting-tools/high-feed-rate-face-milling-cutters-17869-1324515.html
[11:03:36] <_methods> but that is a pic of it
[11:03:44] <_methods> i'll get the exact model #
[11:04:20] <_methods> they're awesome for overhangs and deep pockets
[11:04:44] <PetefromTn_> looks nice but why does the finish suck?
[11:04:52] <_methods> heh the finish is poo poo lol
[11:05:01] <_methods> hold on i'll get a pic
[11:05:15] <Connor> and, how does both sides cut ?
[11:05:27] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ppl6ywuztud5ywy/2014-03-12%2009.59.55.jpg
[11:05:34] <_methods> you flip the insert over
[11:05:39] <_methods> and use the other side lol
[11:05:54] <Connor> okay, that's standard insert.. I was thinking you meant both cut at same time..
[11:05:58] <PetefromTn_> ooh shit that is ugly... too fast maybe?
[11:06:24] <CaptHindsight> look at the space between cuts
[11:06:27] <_methods> no it's a rougher
[11:06:29] <PetefromTn_> wait a minut that is you in the video huh..
[11:06:32] <_methods> it's not supposed to look good
[11:06:36] <_methods> yeah
[11:06:51] <PetefromTn_> is that a haas?
[11:06:57] <_methods> no yama seiki
[11:07:05] <_methods> we have haas though :9
[11:07:07] <_methods> :(
[11:07:19] <_methods> i try to not use them
[11:07:23] <PetefromTn_> looks like a big table there
[11:07:25] <_methods> unless i'm cutting plastic or something
[11:07:51] <CaptHindsight> I picked up a box of carbide lathe tools from Shars yesterday to use in flycutters for $30
[11:08:10] <PetefromTn_> ya know I hear people say that all the time but the shop I worked in had a BUNCH of those haas machines and they cut only steel and tool steel 24/7 with no issues at all..
[11:08:32] <_methods> their fine if you don't hit it hard
[11:08:32] <PetefromTn_> from a VF2 up to a VF5.
[11:08:43] <_methods> if you run them full bore they will die
[11:08:48] <_methods> not like real machines
[11:09:01] <CaptHindsight> btw, Shars stocks most things in St Charles except many of the end mills are drop shipped when you order from the suppliers
[11:09:27] <_methods> their good for light applications
[11:09:30] <_methods> they're
[11:09:32] <_methods> even
[11:09:50] <PetefromTn_> I tried to buy my holders from shars but they would not deal with me in a package I was after.. Called them about it three times back and forth and they just said their cutter holders are WORTH the money LOL...
[11:10:30] <PetefromTn_> Funny thing is I HAVE two shars holders here and they are no different from the ones I got that I can see..
[11:10:54] <CaptHindsight> yeah, their price is the price, they get trucks in from China in one door and pack and ship out another
[11:11:15] <CaptHindsight> they have no sales counter, you just walk in the back door where they are packing orders
[11:11:21] <PetefromTn_> well. thats what most of these chinese tool suppliers do anyways.
[11:11:53] <CaptHindsight> the whole staff in the USA is ~12 people
[11:12:13] <PetefromTn_> well I gotta go see about this work meeting. Hoping for a favorable result.
[11:12:21] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[11:12:24] <zeeshan> what kind of tool holders?
[11:12:28] <PetefromTn_> I am surprised there are that many LOL.
[11:12:33] <PetefromTn_> cat40
[11:12:36] <zeeshan> ah
[11:12:44] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You taking some of the things you've made ?
[11:12:47] <CaptHindsight> 4 that actually pick and pack orders
[11:12:48] <Connor> to show ?
[11:12:54] <PetefromTn_> still tho they are surprisingly cheap tho.
[11:13:11] <zeeshan> Connor you has TTS
[11:13:14] <zeeshan> or imports
[11:13:27] <PetefromTn_> Connor no I usually just take pictures etc.. I only have the wheels here right now to show anyways and they were the prototypes.
[11:13:31] <zeeshan> <- wants to order some 3/4 straight shank holders
[11:13:41] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, turn the acoustic cloak into acoustic airplane hat to STFU screamin babies
[11:13:59] <Connor> zeeshan: I have true TTS, But, I only have 3 holders, 1 drill chuck
[11:14:10] <Connor> I need to buy more.
[11:14:11] <zeeshan> ah
[11:14:41] <Connor> and would like to get a set of those TTS ER20 or ER32's from ebay that the tomrach guys have been going on about.
[11:14:47] <PetefromTn_> I had the TRUE TTS and a bunch of chinese copes...could not tell the difference under high scrutiny and LOTS of measuring runout with my DTI.
[11:14:51] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: dream come true, I had a flight last year 1 row back from the bulkhead with 3 that just wouldn't sleep
[11:15:34] <PetefromTn_> Well cya guys later.
[11:15:38] <zeeshan> cu! good luck
[11:15:42] <Connor> good luck
[11:15:44] <PetefromTn_> thanks man.
[11:16:17] <zeeshan> do i use a standard r8 3/4" collet?
[11:16:26] <zeeshan> with TTS
[11:16:48] <Connor> I think you CAN.. but.. I just bought the special one..
[11:16:55] <zeeshan> their website is confusing
[11:17:04] <Connor> let me find the video.. brb
[11:18:21] <syyl_ws> with a standard collet you need to face off the front
[11:18:36] <syyl_ws> so its below the spindle nose
[11:19:10] <syyl_ws> and take a skim cut on the spindle nose itself to true it up
[11:19:47] <tjtr33> is that new surface the Z ref for a TTS holder?
[11:20:03] <zeeshan> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32086
[11:20:14] <syyl_ws> jip
[11:20:26] <zeeshan> 32087 - TTS R8 Adaptor Collet for Tormach ATC vs 32086 - TTS-R8 adaptor collet
[11:20:27] <syyl_ws> they have a pretty good pdf on the TTS
[11:20:43] <syyl_ws> somewhere
[11:20:44] <tjtr33> hmm, then make it 3 areas ( relieve between 3 pads so dirt is less of an issue )
[11:20:47] <Zaarin> Hi guys, I spent this afternoon grinding through this thick 15mm plate it now fits the flywheel but I still want to make this 58mm radius (116mm diameter) bore through the middle of it so this pipe slots through, the dremel trio circular cutting tool is alright for marking it, but would take weeks to cut through this plate metal. You think I should just use a million 1mm holes around the
[11:20:48] <Zaarin> borehole marking, or just bodge angle grind it like I've done with the outer circle? Here's some photos: http://i.imgur.com/XRpm0os.jpg ... http://i.imgur.com/TDf9IyO.jpg ... and here's what it looked like this morning when it was still uncut scrap: http://i.imgur.com/zBOnZ2N.jpg
[11:21:28] <zeeshan> syyl_ws: i see what you mean
[11:21:36] <zeeshan> standard collets are semi-spherical on the face
[11:21:39] <zeeshan> but tormach is flat
[11:22:42] <syyl_ws> an below the spindle nose
[11:22:45] <zeeshan> yea
[11:22:48] <Zaarin> It's much too big for a hole saw and a drill press!
[11:22:49] <syyl_ws> thats the important part
[11:23:03] <Connor> http://www.tormach.com/uploads/42/U10044M_Tormach_Tooling_System_0512A-pdf.html
[11:23:21] <zeeshan> figure 1 :D
[11:23:23] <syyl_ws> right, thats the pdf ;)
[11:23:38] <tjtr33> ty Connor
[11:23:43] <Connor> Now, I have the flat collet..
[11:23:49] <syyl_ws> ah
[11:23:56] <syyl_ws> ok, i was wrong ;)
[11:24:05] <syyl_ws> hat it in another way in my head
[11:24:13] <Connor> syyl_ws: had what wrong ?
[11:24:25] <syyl_ws> [1705:48] <syyl_ws> an below the spindle nose
[11:24:27] <syyl_ws> that part
[11:24:35] <syyl_ws> i forgott that the tts holders are undercut
[11:24:36] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: what tools do you have at your disposal?
[11:24:37] <zeeshan> Never use unbalanced cutters.
[11:24:38] <zeeshan> ^
[11:24:39] <zeeshan> lol
[11:24:49] <syyl_ws> try that with an boring heaf ;)
[11:24:49] <zeeshan> so that means no fly cutters!
[11:24:53] <zeeshan> or boring head
[11:25:03] <Connor> zeeshan: No.. They have a fly cutter..
[11:25:24] <Connor> and.. I wouldn't use a boring head with TTS anyway..
[11:25:38] <Connor> Though, I could.. Mine is 3/4" shank. :)
[11:25:39] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: how precise do you need that hole to be?
[11:25:43] <Zaarin> Angle grinder 4 inch, 350watt drill press, 500watt impact drill, geared hand drill (favourite), file, dremel rotory tool, dremel trio, circular grip for dremel trio, pliers, screwdrivers, GYS arc welder
[11:25:46] <syyl_ws> they have the flycutter from hell :D
[11:25:58] <Zaarin> Precise enough it isn't off centre and precise enough I can weld that pipe in the middle
[11:26:00] <syyl_ws> or at least they beat the crap out of it
[11:26:20] <Zaarin> If it's off center the gear might have an elliptical orbit and then the teeth won't mesh
[11:26:39] <Zaarin> There is gonna be a s¬%t tonne of torque on this thing when the wind blows the dish
[11:26:42] <Connor> section 9, they have a TTS Boring Tool
[11:27:55] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: well if you had a fly cutter you could put that in your drill press and slowly bore down
[11:28:18] <Zaarin> I'v ebeen told flycutter+chut key + drill press = accident waiting to happen
[11:28:30] <tjtr33> like a fly cutter but a trammeling tool, only cuts a circular slot ( less work )
[11:28:42] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: yeah, but you're keeping an eye on it and taking your time
[11:28:56] <Zaarin> On the slowest pulley speed?
[11:29:13] <Zaarin> What do I need to make a makeshift flycutter? I'm guessing this is a facemask job just in case
[11:29:17] <CaptHindsight> yeah, and go down slow
[11:29:21] <Connor> Zaarin: Yup. Chuck isn't designed to handle side loads.. and you know that it's going to vibrate the hell out of that chuck.
[11:29:38] <Zaarin> Unless you counterbalance it properly
[11:29:43] <CaptHindsight> he's just doing this once
[11:29:57] <CaptHindsight> it's not production
[11:30:20] <Zaarin> twice, I have to do this for the y axis also
[11:30:26] <tjtr33> trammeling bar with 2 cutters is balanced
[11:30:37] <CaptHindsight> if your spaceship crash landed and you needed to make a similar part, what would you do with the tools at hand
[11:31:12] <Zaarin> My thoughts are sod it, the hole's marked, grind it out just be careful not to go over the mark and do circular marks on both sides
[11:31:35] <Zaarin> Nothing cuts metal as quickly and as the angle grinder
[11:31:43] <Connor> The flat collet might be for tools that don't have the relief cut into them..
[11:31:55] <zeeshan> i really think im gonna go with a nst30
[11:32:00] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: for cutting that inside circle?
[11:32:04] <Connor> I got it anyway because I had cheap R8 Collets..figured theres was higher quality.
[11:32:35] <Connor> Zaarin: What are you boring this for ?
[11:32:51] <Zaarin> yeah
[11:32:59] <Zaarin> to stick that big pipe through
[11:33:05] <Zaarin> steam's gonna go through the middle
[11:38:45] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: whats the pipes dia?
[11:38:51] <CaptHindsight> O.D.
[11:39:07] <tjtr33> http://www.thewoodnerd.com/reviews/generalCircleCutter.html
[11:39:55] <CaptHindsight> yeah ^^
[11:40:21] <tjtr33> google circle cutter MSC et all sell em, save you a load of time for 30$
[11:40:34] <Connor> those things are evil.. Work okay for wood.. Dunno about metal..
[11:40:53] <CaptHindsight> in a pinch and you work slowly
[11:40:56] <tjtr33> circle cutter = tramelling tool = trepanning tool
[11:40:58] <Connor> Even in wood (mdf) was a pain.
[11:41:30] <CaptHindsight> drill a hole and file, if you really have patience
[11:41:40] <tjtr33> the downfeed is slow, the tooltip speed is lathe like
[11:41:41] <Connor> Take it to someone who has a water jet, or a lathe... save yourself..
[11:42:44] <CaptHindsight> sure, buy a replacement part vs fabricate is another option
[11:42:57] <CaptHindsight> but that wouldn't be as much fun
[11:43:03] <tjtr33> email the steam from one end to the other
[11:43:43] <Zaarin> 116mm
[11:43:45] <Zaarin> diam
[11:43:58] <archivist> the steam seal will be the final frontier
[11:44:13] <tjtr33> yeah rotary
[11:44:14] <skunkworks> this is a guy local to us.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciNVQqgre0w
[11:44:50] <skunkworks> met him a few times - he has also been to a few fests.
[11:45:02] <archivist> redneck bar feed
[11:45:36] <skunkworks> keep watching ;)
[11:46:30] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: <-- has to go, is there a jump to for the main action?
[11:46:36] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4meWNvfgbsE
[11:46:51] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight, his electronics layout is a bit willy nilly
[11:48:20] <Zaarin> That highland woodworking circular cutter looks like it'd do the trick, says it's for wood, but you sure it'll handle steel?
[11:48:35] <tjtr33> maybe later, youtube is fulla 502's and sluggish
[11:48:35] <archivist> skunkworks, after seeing the puller....still redneck :)
[11:50:04] <tjtr33> Zaarin, the center cutter can be ground for steel on a pedastal grinder, the circumference cutter same ( lathe type bit ) all high speed steel but use lube and hand feed easy, klet the cutter do the work
[11:51:00] <tjtr33> and look at MSC for same but for steel work
[11:51:20] <Zaarin> msc?
[11:51:30] <tjtr33> google MSC
[11:51:44] <tjtr33> mscdirect.com
[11:51:45] <Zaarin> martha stewart crafts?
[11:51:56] <tjtr33> yes, shes a chip making beotch
[11:54:35] <tjtr33> here ya go ace hardware 19bucks http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1292919
[11:56:39] <Zaarin> acehardware won't ship to Cyprus
[11:56:52] <Zaarin> but that IS what I need
[11:56:58] <tjtr33> Cyprus the island?
[11:57:01] <Zaarin> aye
[11:57:21] <Zaarin> the island with a tonne of solar energy and zero common sense
[11:57:41] <tjtr33> dang! you're pretty much stuck with oreding & waiting . sorry mate
[11:58:23] <tjtr33> is it solar steam?
[11:58:42] <tjtr33> heliotropic focuser?
[11:58:46] <cradek> tjtr33: those are also known around my shop as "whirling helicopter of death"
[11:59:04] <Zaarin> that's what I'm working on yes because there is a law prohibiting the sale and use of photovoltaics back to the grid without special permission, however there is no law prohibiting the use of parabolic mirror steam turbine systems
[11:59:09] <Zaarin> also this can produce clean water out of shite water
[11:59:17] <tjtr33> can be :) but can also make very nice shiny ribbons of death
[11:59:18] <Zaarin> it's a prototype I've been workign on for a number of years
[11:59:33] <Zaarin> This is the biggest project I've ever undertaken
[12:00:36] <tjtr33> sounds great tho, try to get some better equipment if the project needs a lot of metalwork ( else plan on looking like popeye )
[12:00:46] <Zaarin> lol
[12:01:10] <Zaarin> I'm wearing, boots, leather jacket, leather gloves, headphones, jeans, goggles whenever I do metal work, safety comes first
[12:01:18] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc-formerly-emc2/206712-new-trajectory-planner-testers-programs-wanted.html
[12:01:18] <Zaarin> got an autodarkening helmet for the welding
[12:01:33] <tjtr33> uncle skunk wants YOU!
[12:02:07] <skunkworks> he has always made comments about how linuxcnc goes wonky with P and Q - hope to get the point across
[12:03:14] <tjtr33> skunkworks, thx for the link, i _will_try it, the lithophanes are often 20hrs + right now
[12:04:06] <zeeshan> has anyone here done a spindle conversion on a milling machine
[12:05:04] <Zaarin> I'm guessing it involves tap and die
[12:05:10] <tjtr33> Zarin, without many tool, drilling a series of hole, puching out ctr disk, then filing to a line is about all i could suggest. sorry
[12:05:24] <skunkworks> tjtr33, that would be great.. (this is a better thread..) http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/16-stepconf-wizard/25900-mach-3-conversion-to-stepconf-wizard
[12:05:28] <Zaarin> 1mm drill bit in the marked groove?
[12:05:42] <Zaarin> how deep can I go with a 1mm drill bit?
[12:05:49] <skunkworks> tjtr33, sorry wrong link
[12:06:14] <skunkworks> tjtr33, http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/27368-new-trajectory-planner-testersprograms-wanted
[12:06:29] <tjtr33> Zaarin, not following, plz restate
[12:06:58] <tjtr33> skunkworks, thx!
[12:07:58] <Zaarin> use the dremel to engrave a 116mm diameter circular groove that's less than 1mm deep, take off the dremel, stick the plate under the drill press with a 1mm drillbit in and drill a hundred 1mm holes around the circumference of the marked circular grove then go again with the 2mm drill bit, then the 3 mm bit until I have a jaggeddy but circular hole through?
[12:08:18] <Zaarin> question is, won't the 1mm drillbit snap at about 6mm depth?
[12:08:35] <cradek> no, it'll snap at about 3mm
[12:08:53] <cradek> why would you use such small drills if you don't have to?
[12:09:50] <cradek> drill big holes almost touching, and then use a hacksaw?
[12:09:56] <archivist> on thick plate you start with a much larger drill
[12:10:35] <Zaarin> archivist, I'd use a 120mm holesaw if I could but the drill won't go slow enough, it'll screech like hell and then jam up
[12:11:15] <cradek> 120mm is too big, 1mm is too small
[12:11:22] <cradek> use something in between, haha
[12:11:54] <CaptHindsight> you could use the hole saw, only you'll have to go down very slowly and keep it cool
[12:12:33] <CaptHindsight> fill the gap with weld
[12:12:56] <archivist> his drill is one of those little 350w jobs, will complain at any real hard work
[12:12:59] <Zaarin> only problem there is how do you make sure the pipe isn't close to one side but far away from the other so when it spins it's off center?
[12:13:10] <archivist> lathe
[12:13:14] <Zaarin> you need a $7,000 machine for that
[12:13:19] <CaptHindsight> yeah, but you are going to weld anyway
[12:13:21] <archivist> go find a machine shop
[12:13:53] <tjtr33> maybe removing teeth on hole saw (keep every 5th say) would increase chip clearance and allow higher rpm, then weld in ctr posn (careful setup)
[12:14:09] <archivist> belt drive to a car hub would make a redneck lathe
[12:14:42] <tjtr33> thats canadian, not redneck, i saw the video
[12:14:53] <archivist> that was wood!
[12:14:55] <CaptHindsight> yeah either way if he wants <0.1" precision
[12:15:00] <archivist> I saw it too :)
[12:15:48] <Zaarin> What take the wheel off my car, 2 bricks under the car frame, weld a flycutter onto the hub, put a brick on the accelerator?
[12:16:23] <tjtr33> back to safer whirling helicopter of death and _wait_for_the_post!
[12:16:24] <archivist> no, get bits from the scrap yard to make whatever
[12:16:28] <CaptHindsight> either you cut a precision hole or you'll need to weld it with some precision
[12:16:53] <skunkworks> do your best and mud the rest!
[12:17:07] <skunkworks> putty, weld...
[12:17:23] <tjtr33> its a big project, can you work on some other bit & wait for good tools or service?
[12:17:27] <archivist> unless the steam seal is thought about real soon all this effort is totally wasted
[12:17:29] <Zaarin> with mod 3.0 gears, how many mm off centre can I still be and the mechanism will still work?
[12:17:32] <Zaarin> What's the tolerance?
[12:17:39] <tjtr33> archivist, yes!
[12:18:49] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/XRpm0os.jpg here's the part that needs to fit on the pipe
[12:19:35] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: I'd have to see more of what all that connects to
[12:20:03] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: does that circular plate bolt to the gear?
[12:20:10] <tjtr33> the tube doesnt look straight, yep need better idea of whats goin on
[12:20:45] <Zaarin> that's just a reference, I'm welding that to a 6m long pipe
[12:20:56] <archivist> I think he has some expectation of sealing on the inner of the wonky tube
[12:20:59] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/TDf9IyO.jpg is this what the finished part will look like?
[12:21:00] <Zaarin> That was just proof I could weld two bits of pipe together
[12:21:16] <tjtr33> i saw the movie wonky tube
[12:21:20] <Zaarin> yes capthindsight
[12:21:40] <archivist> have you pressure tested the weld
[12:21:43] <CaptHindsight> sounds like something on Skinamax
[12:22:13] <tjtr33> im wrong it was the infamous 'twonky'
[12:22:42] <Zaarin> nope, not pressure tested, no idea what it'll handle until the day the whole thing gets switched on
[12:22:48] <Zaarin> I'm just relying on "overengineering"
[12:23:17] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: whats the tube fit into? are you spinning a steam pipe with that gear?
[12:23:30] <archivist> the larger diameter make a bigger bomb
[12:24:00] <archivist> please read some pressure vessel regulations
[12:24:10] <jdh_> steam bomb would suck
[12:24:14] <CaptHindsight> heh, never ask the help at Home Depot if this wire is good for bomb :)
[12:24:19] <Zaarin> yes, spinning steam gear
[12:24:25] <CaptHindsight> no sense of humor
[12:24:31] <tjtr33> re: twonky... Han Conreid "Tweedy college professor discovers his new TV set is animate, apparently possessed by something from the future, and militantly intent on regulating his daily life"
[12:25:17] <jdh> anyone ever flycut stainless plate (down to 0.074" thick from 0.080ish)
[12:26:54] <archivist> jdh I have done some silly sheet machining, your clamping it going to be interesting
[12:27:14] <tjtr33> hope its not the whole surface
[12:27:49] <jdh> not sure how they are doing it.
[12:28:01] <jdh> they were going to grind, but the edges got hot and warped
[12:28:14] <Zaarin> the top of the pipe has a curved pipe that bends round 90¬ļ to the horizontal, the bottom of the pipe goes to a labyrinth seal with another 90 degree bend pipe that goes to the water collection system (maybe later a turbine)
[12:28:27] <tjtr33> we use to size some copper electrode in a bucket of dilute acid. dip it in, clock of 10 secs, remove, rince, measure, calc ne dip time...
[12:28:44] <Zaarin> I'm only using 4mm sheet steel for the labyrinth seal rings
[12:28:46] <tjtr33> calcuclate new dip time
[12:29:04] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: chemical machining
[12:29:11] <tjtr33> yah
[12:29:27] <tjtr33> Zaarin, rpm?
[12:29:40] <tjtr33> and pressure?
[12:29:54] <jdh> we do something similar with acid etching tube ID to size
[12:29:59] <CaptHindsight> <-- readying the steam tables
[12:30:08] <archivist> what clearances on this "seal"
[12:30:10] <Zaarin> The spinning steam gearshaft? 0.0001rpm
[12:30:22] <tjtr33> steam tables? is it lunch already?
[12:30:32] <Zaarin> real hi torque, slow speed to get the dish to very precisely pinpoint the concentrated solar energy onto the boiler
[12:30:48] <tjtr33> Zaarin, ok, my speed domain ( i do EDM )
[12:31:11] <Zaarin> I'm hoping to step down the gearshaft a couple of times so a NEMA 34 on each axis so it's also "low energy" as well as "eco friendly"
[12:31:31] <CaptHindsight> real steampunk solar dish
[12:31:32] <Zaarin> ignoring all the toxic gases released from the welding slag and grinding old scrap
[12:31:35] <Zaarin> aye
[12:31:45] <Zaarin> arduino controlled
[12:32:15] <tjtr33> and pressure & clearance in labyrinth?
[12:32:50] <Zaarin> k type thermocouple hysterisis function for the wastewater intake
[12:32:58] <Zaarin> about a mm each side maybe less
[12:33:15] <archivist> not a chance of making this seal with the current methods
[12:33:21] <tjtr33> steam or wet vapor? 1mm aint no seal
[12:33:34] <archivist> a mm is barn door to steam
[12:33:51] <Zaarin> how many labyrinths would I need to negate the steamloss?
[12:34:19] <tjtr33> i'd rethink the design if i knew what it was :)
[12:34:40] <CaptHindsight> yes, you're making too many poor assumptions
[12:34:52] <archivist> wrong kind of seal for steam
[12:35:00] <Zaarin> well if the gap is too tight, won't the metal expand or contract and make it impossible to turn?
[12:35:09] <Zaarin> What seal would you use?
[12:35:22] <zeeshan> im using some special seals on my steam engine
[12:35:22] <CaptHindsight> he's building a big parabolic reflector that tracks the sun
[12:35:24] <archivist> good seals need good machining
[12:35:30] <tjtr33> dont be discouraged, we're pretty much all curmedgeon tool makers, bound to do everything _right_
[12:35:32] <zeeshan> want a link?
[12:35:38] <zeeshan> tehyre rated for 1600F
[12:35:57] <archivist> O ring?
[12:36:00] <zeeshan> kind of
[12:36:36] <zeeshan> http://www.parker.com/literature/Seal%20Group/CSS%205129.pdf
[12:36:36] <archivist> he lacks machining facilities though
[12:36:38] <tjtr33> move the thing that turns away form the thing that cant
[12:36:46] <zeeshan> page 22
[12:36:47] <zeeshan> is what im using
[12:36:54] <archivist> flexible hose
[12:37:09] <archivist> no need for full rotation
[12:37:09] <zeeshan> 1/16 size
[12:37:56] <Zaarin> Well if the O ring is good enough for missiles, it's good enough for steampunk
[12:38:13] <zeeshan> if you look age page 10
[12:38:17] <zeeshan> you can see the common applications
[12:38:19] <jdh> good enough for space shuttles?
[12:38:32] <zeeshan> 'steam turbine casing seals'
[12:38:33] <zeeshan> ;p
[12:38:43] <CaptHindsight> the seal can flex
[12:38:44] <tjtr33> any estimate of the pressure on the seal
[12:39:22] <Zaarin> metal wire ring?
[12:39:31] <zeeshan> they're c-rings
[12:39:33] <zeeshan> with a spring inside em
[12:39:45] <Zaarin> So I can just weld steel wire on the outside of a pipe in between plates with holes cut out to seal it?
[12:39:54] <zeeshan> no
[12:39:57] <Zaarin> ahha so the spring seals tehm shut?
[12:40:08] <zeeshan> its a c-ring
[12:40:15] <zeeshan> cause when you close it, it wants to spring back into position
[12:40:23] <zeeshan> if you're really on a tight budget
[12:40:35] <zeeshan> just make an o-ring groove and use copper wire
[12:40:46] <CaptHindsight> but this is supposed to be low tech, his seals need to be made of rope and pitch
[12:40:54] <zeeshan> copper wire is pretty low tech
[12:40:55] <zeeshan> ;p
[12:41:01] <Zaarin> How thick copper wire?
[12:41:08] <zeeshan> 0.030 will work
[12:41:15] <zeeshan> it wont seal as great as the c-rings
[12:41:27] <archivist> copper is usually not used on a moving joint
[12:41:33] <zeeshan> oh
[12:41:38] <zeeshan> i thought we were talkiung about face seals!
[12:41:51] <CaptHindsight> 0.001rpm
[12:42:13] <zeeshan> copper will get owned if yoiu use it dynamically
[12:42:18] <CaptHindsight> or 0.0001 rpm
[12:42:21] <archivist> packing or o ring
[12:42:22] <Zaarin> How about a giant tap and die?
[12:42:29] <zeeshan> archivist: i agree
[12:42:31] <zeeshan> i've also used this:
[12:42:45] <tjtr33> maybe you could work with others in same field like this http://wateradvocate.org/SODIS.htm
[12:42:53] <zeeshan> http://www.mcmaster.com/#=r2au52
[12:42:55] <archivist> I have been playing with steam for a "while"
[12:43:01] <zeeshan> style '11
[12:43:02] <zeeshan> '
[12:43:21] <tjtr33> theers groups arounfd the work working on solar water purification/cleaning and they need help
[12:43:58] <zeeshan> fak steam
[12:44:06] <zeeshan> my electronic first steam injector was a major failure
[12:44:11] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: are you using a parabolic reflector and heating water at the focus?
[12:44:32] <Zaarin> yes
[12:44:56] <CaptHindsight> ok so an offset parabolic is too late
[12:45:31] <CaptHindsight> and this joint is between the fixed water pipes and the moving pipes on the reflector>
[12:45:41] <CaptHindsight> ?
[12:46:01] <archivist> if the rotation is strong enough it can carry ALL the steam system, no need for flexible seal at all
[12:46:01] <Zaarin> no the wastewater is fed up by flexible hose into a computer controlled valve at the top
[12:46:06] <Zaarin> the steam comes back down
[12:46:48] <archivist> keep the steam on the dish and condense there only bringing low pressure water back though joints
[12:46:49] <Zaarin> the dish needs to go up down left right
[12:47:13] <archivist> heat exchangers ftw
[12:47:19] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[12:48:24] <CaptHindsight> and I was just dusting off my electronic slide rule
[12:49:51] <archivist> what small steam leaks do to materials is interesting,
[12:50:56] <archivist> seen the iron dissolved/leached out of cast iron leaving the carbon
[12:51:11] <Zaarin> even stainless?
[12:52:01] <CaptHindsight> an oxidizer under pressure
[12:52:13] <archivist> I have been working in old engines, dunno about stainless but dont expect that would be immune
[12:53:15] <zeeshan> depends
[12:53:23] <zeeshan> if you're using tap water
[12:53:27] <Zaarin> so hot steam will destroy all my hard work by nossling out of the imperfections in my seals?
[12:53:27] <CaptHindsight> add some auto antifreeze for rust prevention
[12:53:39] <zeeshan> the chlorine at elevated temperatures (steam temps) will absolutely destroy stainless.
[12:53:58] <zeeshan> google chlorine and stainless :p
[12:54:04] <CaptHindsight> is this tap water, DI, river water??
[12:54:12] <zeeshan> muncipal water
[12:54:15] <zeeshan> which has chlorine in it
[12:54:18] <Zaarin> piss, bathwater, swampwater, anything dirty really
[12:54:24] <tjtr33> been googling around 'open source water purification', theres a lot out there
[12:54:30] <archivist> stainless is just a word for normal conditions :)
[12:54:42] <Zaarin> yeah but I want to do it with a big skydish just because I can
[12:55:06] <Zaarin> and I'm on a greek island and I want to do things the greek way
[12:55:08] <CaptHindsight> well boiling will get rid of the chlorine
[12:55:23] <archivist> but rot the boiler
[12:55:26] <tjtr33> and adding anitfreeze gets rid of the people :)
[12:55:39] <CaptHindsight> whats the water power? or are you purifying water only?
[12:56:36] <Zaarin> no idea, when I test I'll take pressure readings, temperature readings using the k-type inside the boiler then I'll code an algorithm to manage the best rate so it doesn't overspill the boiler and doesn't leave the boiler empty thus melting in the sun
[12:57:11] <archivist> you should do some thinking/design before building
[12:57:17] <CaptHindsight> is this for power generation or water purification?
[12:57:25] <archivist> both I think
[12:57:33] <Zaarin> it's an experiment, that's all
[12:57:43] <Zaarin> if it makes clean water without blowing up, that's a bonus
[12:57:48] <Zaarin> if it drives a car alternator too,
[12:57:51] <Zaarin> that's a bigger bonus
[12:58:14] <zeeshan> http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/stress.pdf
[12:58:16] <zeeshan> page 3
[12:58:27] <zeeshan> if you're interested about chlorine owning stainless steel
[12:58:27] <zeeshan> ;p
[12:58:30] <CaptHindsight> well you learn by doing
[12:58:39] <archivist> you can do water purification with NO pressure
[12:58:53] <Zaarin> the problem I got is if I try and cnc anything not made from wood or HDPE the machine dies, if I angle grind by hand it differs from what I got in blender
[12:59:01] <CaptHindsight> rocks, pebbles, sand
[12:59:14] <archivist> scissors
[13:00:05] <tjtr33> die wobble engine solar steam http://www.greensteamengine.com/
[13:00:11] <Zaarin> you think if I just stick to power generation it'd be better to use something not water and do the purification in a separate experiment instead of trying to bung both goals into the same project?
[13:01:10] <tjtr33> look at the web, lotsa efforts to do similar, join in or spin off, but keep goin!
[13:01:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.unmuseum.org/burn_mirror_arch.jpg
[13:02:22] <CaptHindsight> 212 BC
[13:02:48] <Zaarin> archimedes was a very clever man, but I think his last words he said to that Roman were not so clever
[13:03:00] <Connor> Zaarin: What the heck is that for anyway ?
[13:03:03] <CaptHindsight> "oh yeah"
[13:04:20] <CaptHindsight> "you and what army"
[13:06:08] <Zaarin> well I figured it'd be useful to cook a kebab, ahem Souvlaki (kebab is turkish word) with the sun, it'd be handy to purify lots of water quickly, it'd be handy to generate power using non photovoltaic system and there's a big old Skydish I got for nothing because the owner uses internet now and cut off their subscription and their dish in the wind was cracking the concrete
[13:06:24] <Zaarin> They should have paid me to take it away
[13:06:38] <IchGuckLive> hoi all B)
[13:08:34] <CaptHindsight> one problem with that type of reflector is efficiency (you lose the center area) and having to mount something with any weight at the focus
[13:09:20] <Zaarin> and with my design cut away a 1 foot by 2m chunk at the bottom so the dish doesn't clip with the x axis shaft
[13:09:31] <Zaarin> I accept there will be losses
[13:09:54] <CaptHindsight> yeah, you still have lots of area for solar
[13:10:14] <IchGuckLive> Zaarin: going green
[13:10:34] <Zaarin> the cost of water and electricity here is not funny
[13:11:18] <IchGuckLive> is self drilled water use in the USA alowed
[13:11:24] <IchGuckLive> or in canada
[13:11:48] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: have you tried the newer tb6600 stepper drives?
[13:12:16] <Zaarin> the water table is nearly sea level
[13:12:21] <IchGuckLive> no im not in business now the Ubiversity changed towards mach and im off
[13:12:40] <Zaarin> more and more bore holes are appearing, the resevoirs are so low now people can stand up in them
[13:12:50] <IchGuckLive> Zaarin: sealevel means salt
[13:12:53] <Zaarin> yep
[13:13:02] <Zaarin> then only thing to do is desalinate
[13:13:14] <Zaarin> and knowing the cyprus government they'll do the most expensive method, gas and oil
[13:13:19] <IchGuckLive> windpower
[13:13:24] <IchGuckLive> at nearsea
[13:13:32] <Zaarin> why not direct solar?
[13:13:35] <Zaarin> to desalinate?
[13:13:43] <Zaarin> that's what I intend to find out
[13:13:51] <Zaarin> this project is more a feasability study
[13:13:53] <IchGuckLive> solar is max 20hr wind is always on at sea
[13:14:35] <IchGuckLive> Dubai is on 60m³ per min desalting on wind
[13:14:38] <CaptHindsight> Zaarin: what size is your focal point? can you put the supports for it in the area of the dish that is cut out?
[13:14:49] <Zaarin> And how much loss is there with wind--> mechanical rotational energy-->electricity--> heat-->boiled recondensed carbon filtered steam back to clean water?
[13:15:02] <Zaarin> yeah sure
[13:15:09] <Zaarin> I can weld anything I like on the back of the dish
[13:15:16] <Zaarin> but the front of the dish will all be cememnted mirror tiles
[13:15:20] <Zaarin> polished too :)
[13:15:29] <IchGuckLive> oh no boiling involved this is century technologie
[13:15:30] <Zaarin> polish at night for obvious reasons
[13:15:33] <IchGuckLive> use osmosis jones
[13:15:49] <IchGuckLive> its 99% energie eficent
[13:16:01] <Zaarin> and how much power do you get from osmosis?
[13:16:08] <IchGuckLive> and you got some naturwal incredians left
[13:16:13] <Zaarin> I'm trying to prove you can kill 2 birds with one stone here
[13:16:32] <Zaarin> power AND clean water
[13:16:37] <IchGuckLive> osmosis is the desalt technic not the power
[13:18:11] <IchGuckLive> Zaarin: http://www.watermaker.de/index.php?lang=en
[13:18:31] <IchGuckLive> about 200liter per hour
[13:18:41] <IchGuckLive> direct 12V
[13:18:49] <tjtr33> Zaarin linear solar concentrator open source http://opensourceecology.org/gvcs/gvcs-machine-index/
[13:19:54] <IchGuckLive> 250USD
[13:21:04] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: those are no good, you can't make a buck or control the less fortunate with them
[13:22:09] <CaptHindsight> unless it's also a reprap
[13:24:04] <tjtr33> head slap ! doh!
[13:25:00] <tjtr33> the guy is looking for help with arduino controlof each linear mirror ( helio - tracking )
[13:27:18] <_methods> that's a cool site
[13:27:24] <_methods> http://opensourceecology.org/gvcs/gvcs-machine-index/
[13:27:26] <_methods> thx
[13:27:48] <tjtr33> or drive IchGuckLive 's watermaker
[13:28:12] <tjtr33> _methods, look at the mill, its uberUgly but really works
[13:28:25] <_methods> yeah that guy makese them out of engine blocks
[13:28:27] <_methods> forget his name
[13:28:39] <_methods> he almost killed himself with his
[13:28:42] <_methods> when it tipped over
[13:28:46] <tjtr33> from texas, clever, sturdy too
[13:28:57] <tjtr33> didnt know that
[13:29:03] <_methods> yeah he got hurt really bad
[13:29:09] <_methods> broke his back i think
[13:29:23] <tjtr33> shame, he really tried to do some good
[13:29:29] <_methods> he's healed
[13:29:41] <_methods> he just got hurt really bad i think he redesigned his base after that
[13:30:43] <_methods> http://opensourcemachine.org/mm2html2/How_to_build_a_multimachine.html
[13:30:51] <_methods> pat delany
[13:31:33] <tjtr33> multimachine, thats it
[13:31:37] <_methods> yeah
[13:32:03] <archivist> that is what Zaarin should make first
[13:32:06] <IchGuckLive> near sea shore i woudt go for 1 or 2 2000W wind turbines to get my hose stand alone
[13:32:49] <IchGuckLive> in near bakersfield area you can get the turbines for under 500USD as they are replased every 2 years
[13:33:01] <tjtr33> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eurX6r83X3w
[13:33:13] <Zaarin> what does the multimachine do?
[13:33:21] <_methods> everything lol
[13:33:34] <Zaarin> how does it work?
[13:33:38] <IchGuckLive> SO HE is Going to MARY
[13:33:46] <_methods> it's like a lathe/mill/horizontal
[13:33:47] <IchGuckLive> the Female is a universal TOOL
[13:33:47] <_methods> all in one
[13:34:19] <IchGuckLive> _methods: i also added Foam cutter
[13:34:25] <_methods> nice
[13:34:54] <IchGuckLive> it now looks like a railcube but i got all 9Axis inside
[13:35:04] <Zaarin> oh right it's basically a lathe
[13:35:37] <Zaarin> so I can make my metal discs nice and perfect instead of bodged and jaggedy with the angle grinder?
[13:36:19] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, railcube?
[13:36:39] <IchGuckLive> 8025 profiles in cube orientation
[13:37:13] <tjtr33> ah
[13:38:06] <tjtr33> ive built xyz uvw ab but not nine axis
[13:39:23] <IchGuckLive> the setup hardware is 9 axes but i ony use 5 at the time
[13:40:53] <CaptHindsight> www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/bearing-block-rail/20-mm-aluminium-shaft-support-open-pre-installed-bearing-lme20uu-open-20mm anyone have a source for these with quick shipping?
[13:42:17] <IchGuckLive> http://stores.ebay.de/cnc-discount GERMANY 2 Says delivery
[13:42:34] <IchGuckLive> including rails
[13:43:05] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: or a 4hr return ride for me
[13:43:23] <IchGuckLive> not inclued the phone call
[13:43:54] <IchGuckLive> i like the pink one
[13:45:31] <Zaarin> that multimachione's a real good read actually
[13:46:07] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, what software would you use to get gcode for XYUV foam cutting?
[13:46:55] <IchGuckLive> i use heeks
[13:47:18] <IchGuckLive> for wing i did a simple gcode its in the lib at wiki linuxcnc
[13:48:38] <tjtr33> i watcjhed your videos, thx, was wondering about iso & conic radii in corners
[13:48:49] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDF-FsudRsE
[13:49:37] <IchGuckLive> radius is only performed on XY in UV xou might get an error on 2.5.3
[13:50:55] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/Fqkp30G
[13:50:58] <zeeshan> you guys like my car body
[13:50:59] <zeeshan> :D
[13:51:10] <tjtr33> ah, so its always conic radii ( iso is same top & bot , conic is 2 diff radii top & bot )
[13:51:18] <tjtr33> thx!
[13:51:49] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/dBOrQwE.png
[13:51:50] <zeeshan> moar
[13:58:44] <IchGuckLive> tjtr33: http://foengarage.de/st_ko.jpg This is what you can do a cube goes out to a radius cross
[14:00:36] <IchGuckLive> its the part from the Linuxcnc modification test
[14:01:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/3-axis-dsp-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a the manual is reprint from Leadshine
[14:01:38] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: ever try these ^^^
[14:01:39] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, yes those are conic ( large radius to a radius of 0 ;)
[14:01:57] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: if you mount all togeter it may look like http://foengarage.de/mesa_elek.jpg
[14:02:46] <IchGuckLive> see in video tjtr33 how it is done you need only eqal line numbers
[14:02:50] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, not tried, reading docs now (dsp in stepper drive??)
[14:03:41] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: is the PC in a separate box?
[14:03:58] <IchGuckLive> its a notebook
[14:05:14] <CaptHindsight> I'm going to fit everything into one mini-itx case
[14:05:37] <IchGuckLive> yeah then the 3axis is the best for you only one pice
[14:06:02] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: will it bee a 3D printer
[14:06:10] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: have you tried the Gecko drives? What do you get got 2x the price?
[14:06:26] <CaptHindsight> get got/get for
[14:06:39] <IchGuckLive> i cand get gecko here in germany only leadshines around
[14:07:30] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: yes, 3-axis Cartesian, nema23's
[14:08:22] <IchGuckLive> 3d printing will change after August as the look like patends go open
[14:08:23] <CaptHindsight> low cost version with steppers
[14:08:36] <CaptHindsight> not really, the patents all overlap
[14:08:49] <IchGuckLive> so the prise will trop on 1st Sep towards 350UD
[14:08:55] <IchGuckLive> s
[14:09:06] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: what type of 3D printer?
[14:09:14] <IchGuckLive> ultimate
[14:09:23] <CaptHindsight> oh FDM
[14:10:27] <IchGuckLive> the 2 main Stroes here have oredert about 1Mio pices from the open patents and they will fill the stores on 8Oclock 1st sep 2014
[14:11:11] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I don't work much with 3d printers for plastic toys
[14:11:13] <IchGuckLive> also freescupter EX2 is ready and will drop to 400USD
[14:11:51] <IchGuckLive> it is in a Air invirerment controlled space so you get near 180Deg mashine temp an so best priontings
[14:12:26] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, so that gizmo is 3 axis and VFD drive inabox, seems like a clever item, but i'd like a user review
[14:12:51] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: we can do everything an FDM printer does with SLA and DLP at 10-100x higher speeds
[14:13:08] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I might get one later today
[14:13:24] <CaptHindsight> heading over that way for parts and beer
[14:13:35] <tjtr33> hi to Kee Ling ;)
[14:13:50] <tjtr33> and Binney's
[14:14:17] <CaptHindsight> Lucky Monk brewery
[14:14:24] <CaptHindsight> ever been?
[14:14:47] <tjtr33> my neice's husband owns that ( but no free beer ;(
[14:14:54] <CaptHindsight> heh
[14:15:00] <tjtr33> Thiel
[14:15:09] <CaptHindsight> small world
[14:17:17] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: practical applications of 3d printing require a mix of tech, FDM, SLA, SLS etc in the same machine, but you won't see those in the west for >10 years
[14:19:15] <CaptHindsight> same for tissue printers, need a liver, fly to China
[14:20:03] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: in the unicersity we did a highspeed test on 3d prining with Nitrogen envirerment and low pressure Vaccum
[14:20:30] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: SLS?
[14:20:34] <IchGuckLive> http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/beet_3d_pr.jpg
[14:21:01] <IchGuckLive> is about 1x1x1cm 8min full block
[14:21:12] <IchGuckLive> see the dots of the print
[14:21:35] <CaptHindsight> the dark sports or the layers?
[14:21:41] <CaptHindsight> spots
[14:22:09] <IchGuckLive> layer hight is 0.08 mm
[14:22:19] <IchGuckLive> at about 20m/min
[14:23:16] <CaptHindsight> 20meters/min?
[14:23:18] <IchGuckLive> there is no material on inflow its all meted inside the mashine and injekted like a printer does
[14:23:40] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: feed speed
[14:24:31] <CaptHindsight> we can easily do 100um layers over 19 x 11 cm at 6mm/minute Z
[14:26:05] <tjtr33> i need a video of something growing that fast, with a clock next to the thing being printed
[14:26:08] <CaptHindsight> 7.5L of material per hour (7.5kg)
[14:26:36] <CaptHindsight> and that's with only one DLP
[14:26:56] <CaptHindsight> well DLP or projector
[14:27:08] <IchGuckLive> yep the 3d printing is changing within the end of this year
[14:27:45] <IchGuckLive> ok im off bye
[14:27:50] <tjtr33> bye
[17:21:52] <Deejay> gn8
[18:07:35] <andypugh> Today I went shopping for some MDF board, some heavy duty plastic sheet and 10 tins of molasses. Can you guess why?
[18:08:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: You are starting a wasp collection?
[18:09:58] <_methods> sounds like you're gettin a dexter kill room ready
[18:10:11] <Jymmm> andypugh: Or, you are one hell of a kinky fellow ;)
[18:10:44] <_methods> hehe oh behave
[18:12:56] <andypugh> Not as strange a shop as when I was sent out for extra-virgin olive oil, a sink plunger, a game of Twister and a bikini.
[18:14:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: except for the plunger and bikini, that actually sounds kinda fun =)
[18:15:26] <andypugh> Today's shop was because I have heard that soaking rusty steel parts in dilute molasses leads to non-rusty parts. It's got to be easier to get rid of than gallons of phosphoric acid.
[18:16:14] <Jymmm> and you STILL get a wasp collection at the same time =)
[18:16:38] <_methods> interesting
[18:16:49] <_methods> plz let me know if this works
[18:18:05] <_methods> on 2nd thought nm
[18:18:14] <_methods> i don't want to even try and explain this at work lol
[18:21:58] <Tom_itx> andypugh is that like pickeling?
[18:24:00] <JT-Shop> andypugh soap powder and DC current will remove rust
[18:24:36] <Tom_itx> which pole?
[18:24:56] <JT-Shop> sodium carbonate
[18:25:08] <Tom_itx> + or -
[18:25:54] <Tom_itx> or is the ferrous metal just in the solution
[18:29:02] <JT-Shop> you need an anode too
[18:30:22] <JT-Shop> I'd have to google which one is + and -
[18:31:15] <Tom_itx> anode is +
[18:31:23] <Tom_itx> cathode is -
[18:33:36] <zeeshan> in electrochemical devices yea
[18:33:52] <zeeshan> i just remember one fhtem
[18:33:54] <Jymmm> Connect the (+) lead to the piece that you are trying to REMOVE material from.
[18:34:02] <zeeshan> "anode - flow of current into "
[18:45:31] <JT-Shop> what good is 33% more if it won't come out when you need it?
[18:45:58] <Jymmm> lol
[18:46:44] <Tom_itx> i've been known to fill the can from the compressor
[18:50:09] <CaptHindsight> is that anything like filling a jar at the docs office?
[18:50:45] <CaptHindsight> just returned from Automation Technologies....
[18:50:57] <Tom_itx> with goods or empty handed?
[18:51:00] <CaptHindsight> the routers look much better on the website
[18:51:28] <CaptHindsight> they work, but the finish and paint jobs are pretty rough
[18:53:08] <CaptHindsight> got a bunch of odds and ends, what was actually in stock was different from the website
[18:56:43] <CaptHindsight> disassemble, anodize and repaint the cabinets and bases, and they would look great
[18:57:33] <CaptHindsight> the cnc cut sheet metal around the X axis was also a little rough
[19:13:09] <andypugh> A friend just used the phrase "silly cone seal ant" and I was astonished to find that it had no Google hits at all (when quoted)
[19:14:16] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight:
[19:14:17] <zeeshan> i noticed that.
[19:14:32] <zeeshan> a lot of automatechnologies stuff is just like "longs motors drivers"
[19:14:43] <zeeshan> and longs motors drivers look exactly like leadshine drives
[19:31:34] <humble_s1a_bass> Automation Tech has a store front?
[19:37:22] <andypugh> Interesting.. the Zapp stepper drivers now acually say "Leadshine" on them. http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/digital-stepper-drivers/307-dm422.html But the MotionControlProduct ones have a custom screenprint: http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/products/10/113/dmd422_digital_stepper_drive/
[19:37:39] <_methods> on the pcb?
[19:37:45] <_methods> or on the label on the outside?
[19:38:20] <andypugh> On the case. I provided links...
[19:38:26] <_methods> yeah lookin now
[19:38:31] <_methods> i'd be curious to see the pcb
[19:38:46] <andypugh> Steppers are for Gurls.
[19:39:40] <_methods> or poor people
[19:40:03] <andypugh> Well, these actually look pretty useful (12Nm) but are not for poor people. http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/easy-servo-stepper-motor-drivers-closed-loop-stepper-system/893-es-dh2306-easy-servo-drive.html
[19:40:33] <_methods> hybrid
[19:40:48] <andypugh> Well, hybrid hybrid :-)
[19:42:04] <andypugh> And still half the price of a 12Nm DMM-tech AC servo.
[19:42:17] <andypugh> (But I suspect less useful at high speeds)
[19:42:43] <_methods> guess that would depend on the application
[19:43:36] <andypugh> I was lucky enough to get 3 of these for £50 the set: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OFFER-WIN-LENZE-MDSKSRS036-23-SERVO-MOTOR-/231162386279?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d25a1767
[19:44:13] <_methods> oooh nice
[19:44:16] <andypugh> Actually, mine are the next size up.
[19:44:22] <_methods> for 50?
[19:45:00] <andypugh> Yes. That's £50 not $50 though.
[19:45:37] <_methods> steal
[19:46:02] <_methods> hey so when you do a retrofit do you copy the machine original ladder and plug into classic ladder?
[19:46:09] <andypugh> They were a pseudo-bargain, because they cost me £700 for a machine to mount them on then £1000i n parts and castings and Mesa cards for the conversion.
[19:46:12] <_methods> or do you have to do a lot of modifications?
[19:46:31] <_methods> like for a magazine tool changer
[19:46:47] <andypugh> If you have a machine original ladder then you should be able to copy it.
[19:46:53] <_methods> nice
[19:47:04] <_methods> and use the existing relays and stuff
[19:49:59] <andypugh> It ought to work, I think, though I have absolutely no experience with Ladder.
[19:50:17] <andypugh> I am more comfortable with custom comps and state machines.
[20:00:07] <andypugh> Iran has an interesting calendar. Thet have "Garlic collecting month" and "Wolf killing month" amongst others. I might start using it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_calendar
[20:02:15] <Jymmm> jdh: ping
[20:05:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.zincland.com/hypocycloid/
[20:05:46] <Jymmm> jdh: No clue, thought you might be interested for $20 even as much of a diva as you are on such things =) http://usd.dx.com/product/richfire-sf-749-cree-xm-l-t6-8-mode-800lm-white-diving-flashlight-grey-1x26650-1x18650-3xaaa-901293320
[20:12:40] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Interesting, I wonder what backlash is like?
[20:12:57] <Tom_itx> similar to harmonic drives
[20:13:20] <Tom_itx> <GargantuaSauce> low backlash is one of the design advantages touted by every source i've seen
[20:13:23] <andypugh> Have you seen this one? http://www.iftomm.org/iftomm/proceedings/proceedings_WorldCongress/WorldCongress07/articles/sessions/papers/A418.pdf
[20:13:40] <andypugh> It basically plays with aliasing / nyquist
[20:14:03] <Tom_itx> easier to machine too
[20:14:06] <Tom_itx> than a harmonic drive
[20:15:04] <andypugh> You can do this one with a drill (then machine away the spare) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrvwlPxRhKU&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&feature=share&index=4
[20:19:34] <Tom_itx> would a single stage rotate reverse of the drive?
[20:20:49] <Tom_itx> andypugh did you build that one?
[20:21:12] <andypugh> No, I just modelled it to check out the idea.
[20:21:30] <andypugh> Stuart S is looking at variants of the same Idea.
[20:27:29] <PetefromTn_> What do you guys feel is the most you can leave a 1/4 inch two flute sticking out of the collet without having too much deflection and chatter?
[20:27:51] <andypugh> Depends on material.
[20:29:11] <PetefromTn_> 6061 aluminum
[20:29:46] <Connor_iPad> Has or carbide?
[20:29:56] <PetefromTn_> carbide of course..
[20:30:01] <andypugh> This is interesting, but I am puzzled by a lot of the Z-moves.
[20:30:02] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3AqIZURMbI
[20:30:07] <Connor_iPad> Err HSS
[20:30:29] <andypugh> HSS has some advantages.
[20:30:36] <xxoxx> I use HSS to cut aluminum
[20:30:42] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, key is short as possible to mill the part
[20:31:01] <andypugh> Like, it bends enough for you to hit e-stop if it loads up :-)
[20:31:24] <xxoxx> why use 6061 ?
[20:31:55] <xxoxx> for structural parts, I use 7075 or 2024
[20:31:56] <andypugh> I am absolutely no machining expert. But I think you can go quite long if you keep the cutting force down.
[20:32:10] <xxoxx> 6061 is designed for anti-corrosion
[20:32:19] <xxoxx> 2024-T6 is stronger and cheaper
[20:32:56] <andypugh> If you need a long reach, then I have seen tapered tools, but that probably only makes sense in production.
[20:33:00] <Tom_itx> 7075 ftw
[20:33:28] <Tom_itx> i think most of the ones we used were seldom longer than 1" loc
[20:33:38] <xxoxx> 7075 is strongest, but twice as expensive
[20:33:42] <Tom_itx> maybe 1.250 at best
[20:34:01] <Tom_itx> xxoxx, availability is good here for it
[20:34:08] <Tom_itx> surplus
[20:34:28] <Connor_iPad> 6061 is cheap and machines pretty good.
[20:34:34] <xxoxx> inquire about 2024
[20:34:46] <Connor_iPad> Pretty common for our area too
[20:34:53] <PetefromTn_> well I need to go 1" deep and make two passes for the finish on these pockets with a tool that has .75 loc but I generally do not like to do that.
[20:34:56] <xxoxx> I was using 6061 for a long time; until I found out about 2024, even more readily available
[20:35:07] <zeeshan> xxoxx: strongest is all relative to the appliucation
[20:35:09] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ i wouldn't recomend that either
[20:35:18] <PetefromTn_> I honestly did not ask about other materials..
[20:35:32] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, ball nose for corners?
[20:35:43] <Tom_itx> bull... whatever
[20:35:46] <xxoxx> zeeshan, 7075 is strongest among 7075, 6061, 2024, in absolute terms, not relative
[20:35:48] <PetefromTn_> no full depth cut pocket.
[20:35:51] <Tom_itx> depending on the radius
[20:35:55] <zeeshan> its far from the strongest
[20:35:57] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: This video shows some quite long protrusions. They seem happy to run 6:1 at full engagement and 15:1 at the tip: http://youtu.be/jrziv0piQ3U
[20:36:09] <zeeshan> its got like 3 more GPa from 6061
[20:36:18] <zeeshan> and doesn't elongate nearly as much as 6061
[20:36:34] <zeeshan> ie its more brittle for that extra GPa
[20:36:48] <andypugh> 3 _more_ GPa? 4GPa is about the max total for steel!
[20:37:04] <zeeshan> Mpa
[20:37:05] <zeeshan> sorry
[20:37:28] <xxoxx> comparing 6061 and 7075 for strength?
[20:37:32] <xxoxx> there's no comparison
[20:37:42] <PetefromTn_> the first part of that video pretty much sums up the op I need here.
[20:37:51] <andypugh> I made a 3GPa steel once, and felt quite proud of myself :-) (erbium alloy and a lot of cold rolling)
[20:38:03] <PetefromTn_> why are we talking about materials I never asked what I should machine the part from...
[20:38:28] <Tom_itx> free advice is given freely
[20:38:36] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[20:38:38] <Tom_itx> take what you want and leave the rest
[20:38:40] <zeeshan> sorry i just get irritated when people go
[20:38:42] <andypugh> Well, I am a materials scientist, so don't need much excuse to go off on a tangent
[20:38:45] <zeeshan> "this material is the STRONGEST!"
[20:38:51] <PetefromTn_> If I wanted to make it from 7075 I would have I have machined quite a bit of it before.
[20:39:18] <Tom_itx> i wasn't suggesting you use 7075
[20:39:18] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: are we talking about your scope attachement?
[20:39:20] <xxoxx> zeeshan, I was comparing 7075 to 6061 and 2024
[20:39:22] <PetefromTn_> 6061 is a bit gummier but for this part it is just fine.
[20:39:39] <xxoxx> 7075 is the strongest of the three, didn't say it's the strongest of all materials obviously
[20:39:55] <xxoxx> and I wasn't even talking about 7075
[20:39:59] <zeeshan> whenever sometimes is strong its also more brittle
[20:40:03] <xxoxx> I was saying 2024 is a cheaper and possibly alternative to 6061
[20:40:05] <zeeshan> so its prolly not as good under fatigue
[20:40:08] <andypugh> What is the strongest of all materials?
[20:40:10] <PetefromTn_> for the part 7075 would be overkill and add quite a bit of cost to the product for not a real lot of benefit.
[20:40:21] <zeeshan> andypugh: what aspect? =D
[20:40:25] <xxoxx> I was talking about 2024, which is an easily ignored alternative
[20:40:33] <andypugh> Purely GPa at yield.
[20:40:37] <zeeshan> i can load up CES
[20:40:38] <xxoxx> 7075 is overkill for most applications
[20:40:55] <Tom_itx> andypugh that's a loaded question... you already know the answer
[20:40:56] <zeeshan> gpa is directly related to bonding ;p
[20:41:03] <zeeshan> its prolly some sort of ceramic
[20:41:13] <andypugh> (I get really annoyed at "spiderweb is stronger than steel"
[20:41:22] <zeeshan> multimatrix composite!
[20:41:26] <PetefromTn_> SO anyone got suggestions on stickout of my cutter?
[20:41:37] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, you need an inch?
[20:41:43] <Tom_itx> get one with 1" loc
[20:41:49] <Tom_itx> don't rely on the shank
[20:41:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah pretty much slightly more if necessary.
[20:42:00] <Tom_itx> get one the length you need to make the cut
[20:42:06] <PetefromTn_> why?
[20:42:17] <Tom_itx> in case the shank decides to load up
[20:42:36] <Tom_itx> chips passing thru it etc
[20:42:43] <xxoxx> I would use smaller tool, lighter cuts
[20:42:52] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i've been using a 1/4 end mill 2 flute
[20:42:54] <andypugh> I wouldn't be too concerned about a 4:1 protrusion.
[20:43:07] <zeeshan> stuck out 2"
[20:43:08] <Tom_itx> me either
[20:43:08] <PetefromTn_> I normally do not make cuts with a cutter that has less than the DOC flute length but did recently when I did that boss and had to do a double depth finish pass. You cannot even tell there was more than one pass made.
[20:43:09] <zeeshan> works fine on steel
[20:43:22] <zeeshan> cold rolled
[20:43:25] <Tom_itx> go for it then
[20:43:31] <Tom_itx> why you askin us?
[20:43:39] <zeeshan> be a man
[20:43:43] <zeeshan> get 2 1/4 end mills
[20:43:47] <zeeshan> break one and you know the limit
[20:43:52] <andypugh> But I have really very little milling experience. I have been using lathes for 40 years, and shapers/boring machines for 30, but I have only actually had access to a milling machine for about 5 years.
[20:44:03] <zeeshan> andypugh: you're my hero
[20:44:13] <zeeshan> i just saw your video of the inventor rotary table
[20:44:29] <zeeshan> i bet you can use standard needle roller bearings to mesh between your gears
[20:44:31] <PetefromTn_> why am I asking you? what kinda question is that? I just figured I would get some opinions....
[20:44:44] <Tom_itx> as a rule we tried to use the largest, shortest cutter for the job
[20:45:02] <zeeshan> dude just do a deflection calculation
[20:45:10] <zeeshan> if youre so concerned about it
[20:45:17] <zeeshan> if its more than 3 thou, youre doing it wrong
[20:45:22] <zeeshan> :P
[20:45:41] <andypugh> zeeshan: Yes, off-the-shelf needle rollers were part of the design. The ones in the model are actual available parts.
[20:45:56] <zeeshan> see this is why you're my hero
[20:45:59] <zeeshan> =)
[20:46:18] <PetefromTn_> You two need a room LOL
[20:46:20] <Tom_itx> is there less friction in that one over the one i posted?
[20:46:30] <andypugh> zeeshan: Do you want the 3D model?
[20:46:44] <zeeshan> sure!
[20:46:52] <zeeshan> i can't refuse a design to a rotary table
[20:46:54] <zeeshan> :]
[20:47:17] <Connor_iPad> What's the gear reduction on that?
[20:47:30] <zeeshan> i'm presuming you need a brake to make use of this table?
[20:47:58] <xxoxx> what rotary table? link please ...
[20:48:26] <Connor_iPad> Wouldn't think so. Looks like it can't be back driven.
[20:48:26] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrvwlPxRhKU&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&feature=share&index=4
[20:48:26] <andypugh> With a servo on the input it ought to just work. 100:1 ratio backwards and a servo told not to move...
[20:48:43] <xxoxx> thanks
[20:49:26] <Connor_iPad> Kinda looks like a harmonic drive. Not sue what the difference is.
[20:49:31] <zeeshan> andypugh: did you get this idea from car oil gear rotor oil pumps
[20:49:56] <andypugh> I think I actually got the idea from inside my own head.
[20:50:07] <zeeshan> patent it
[20:51:09] <andypugh> I tried to use a simialr thing with an internal and external gear pair a few years ago, but struggled with the contraint mechanism and gears being the wrong shape, then I realised recently that I needed circles. And circles are easy.
[20:51:28] <andypugh> Too late to patent, it's on Youtube. Prior-art and all that.
[20:51:34] <xxoxx> no
[20:51:38] <xxoxx> not too late
[20:51:41] <zeeshan> only 473 views
[20:51:47] <zeeshan> =D
[20:51:53] <xxoxx> you can publish first and patent later
[20:51:58] <zeeshan> i bet its already being made in china.
[20:51:59] <zeeshan> lol
[20:52:09] <PetefromTn_> so the middle runs on an eccentric and the outside walks across the pins then....
[20:52:23] <andypugh> I tried to patent my servo-controlled boring head.
[20:52:46] <Connor_iPad> That sounds cool
[20:53:19] <xxoxx> file a provisional patent; you have one year grace period from first sale or publication to full patent application
[20:53:34] <xxoxx> but only works for the US
[20:53:50] <PetefromTn_> man it sucks it is supposed to get damn cold again tonight...
[20:54:00] <zeeshan> at least you dont have 3.5 feet of snow
[20:54:11] <Connor_iPad> andypugh: Explain the boring head.
[20:54:28] <PetefromTn_> actually they are saying it MIGHT snow..
[20:54:38] <PetefromTn_> I guess I am just freakin' tired of the damn cold.
[20:55:36] <andypugh> Connor_iPad: it's a way to servo-control an off-the-shelf boring head.
[20:56:28] <zeeshan> how do you transmit power
[20:56:32] <zeeshan> to the servo moujnted on the boring head
[20:56:36] <xxoxx> using rings ?
[20:56:44] <zeeshan> like in a car steering wheel? :p
[20:57:07] <andypugh> Well, of course. that is the clever part :-)
[20:57:09] <xxoxx> slip ring
[20:57:18] <xxoxx> like in a tank turret
[20:57:21] <andypugh> No slip rings, no contacts.
[20:57:27] <xxoxx> ok
[20:57:28] <zeeshan> wireless energy
[20:57:31] <zeeshan> !
[20:57:34] <xxoxx> !
[20:57:41] <andypugh> Software..
[20:57:45] <xxoxx> neutron beam
[20:58:31] <andypugh> Imagine if you had _two_ encoders and a brushless motor....
[20:59:11] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, for reference it appears they're using a 1/4" or thereabouts cutter on steel here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CORSb2NtV0Q
[20:59:12] <Connor_iPad> andypugh: You talking about making the boring head auto advance ?
[20:59:15] <Tom_itx> fairly deep cuts
[21:00:22] <andypugh> Connor_iPad: Yes. For example boring spheres or tapers, or non-circular holes.
[21:00:39] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx LOL I was JUST watching that video man....Sweet part being made there.
[21:01:50] <Tom_itx> looks like they're taking less than half the cutter width
[21:03:18] <zeeshan> thatrs roughly exctly how much mine stuck out
[21:03:28] <zeeshan> but i machined at a much slower feed rate
[21:05:59] <andypugh> I have actually bored a taper socket for BT30 tooling with an unmodified automatic boring head. You just set the Z-feed using G33.1 to suit the boring head feed rate, and it comes out perfectly: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical-mill-lathe-project-log/109301-harrison-universal-miller-conversion-post1357394.html#post1357394
[21:07:28] <zeeshan> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qr4iwgbhueU/UqEMqMSXSAI/AAAAAAAACy4/kfjheJqE_q0/s1152/IMG_0785.jpg
[21:07:32] <zeeshan> i think ive asked this before
[21:07:37] <zeeshan> where do you buy a ball nut like that
[21:07:59] <zeeshan> minute the broken return ball screw ;p
[21:08:04] <zeeshan> or whatever you call that thing
[21:08:52] <skunkworks> shining the light.... http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=26709
[21:11:09] <PetefromTn_> skunkworks You tell em' man...LOL
[21:11:25] <cradek> heh you're awesome
[21:11:33] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmq53Ad0Ze0
[21:11:34] <cradek> can't believe your patience for reading those other forums
[21:11:35] <zeeshan> i like this guys lathe
[21:11:40] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx whadda you think the spindle speed was on those cuts?
[21:11:43] <zeeshan> forward to 2min
[21:12:10] <andypugh> zeeshan: That was a rather special nut. Super slim, ordered with preload. The catalogue drawing didn't show the tube!
[21:12:45] <skunkworks> well - others collect stamps..
[21:13:04] <zeeshan> im suprised you didnt get banned skunkworks
[21:13:06] <zeeshan> =D
[21:13:10] <zeeshan> andypugh: ah
[21:13:39] <andypugh> It's worth considering. It's a 16mm screw in a 1" nut.
[21:13:52] <zeeshan> that will fit in my X cross-slide
[21:13:55] <zeeshan> without any modifications
[21:13:58] <andypugh> If you can put the tube out of the way in a corner, it works.
[21:14:09] <zeeshan> im not sure how compatible it would be with my chinese ball screws
[21:14:21] <zeeshan> theyre 16mm dia 5mm pitch
[21:14:52] <andypugh> I bought a nut and screw pair, with preload. It was £99.
[21:14:53] <CaptHindsight> the ballscrews on the 4530 are fit tight axially to the bearings but loose in the radial direction
[21:15:21] <zeeshan> you dont have a link do you?
[21:15:25] <zeeshan> for t he catalog
[21:15:49] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i'm not really sure but probably fairly high
[21:16:43] <andypugh> This is a description of how I squeezed in the new screw http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical-mill-lathe-project-log/109301-harrison-universal-miller-conversion-post1393132.html#post1393132
[21:17:00] <andypugh> But you can find the parts in the GTEN catalogur.
[21:17:14] <PetefromTn_> you think so? Usually not too fast in steel even with HSM toolpathing but I honestly do not know.
[21:17:47] <Tom_itx> the chips were flying off at a pretty good rate
[21:17:47] <zeeshan> http://www.gtenusa.com/rolled-ball-screws/rsu-rolled-ball-screws.html
[21:17:50] <zeeshan> looks like that
[21:18:18] <zeeshan> m22x1.5
[21:18:21] <zeeshan> interesting
[21:18:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is true they were. It is too bad they do not show setup specs like a lot of demonstrational videos do.
[21:19:08] <skunkworks> zeeshan: I just try to show the facts.. (although sometimes that might be considered trolling...)
[21:19:23] <zeeshan> mach 3 users are pretty ignorant
[21:19:44] <jdh> then it might be good for them.
[21:19:48] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: this 4530 uses 3 of the 1605 Chinese ballscrews
[21:20:00] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: link?
[21:20:03] <zeeshan> i dont know what a 4530 is
[21:20:16] <CaptHindsight> 4530 mill
[21:20:19] <andypugh> No, mine is actually a GTEN RAH 16H5
[21:20:27] <CaptHindsight> mill/router
[21:20:31] <zeeshan> oh
[21:20:50] <andypugh> I mean RSH
[21:21:14] <andypugh> http://www.gtenusa.com/rolled-ball-screws/rsh-rolled-ball-screws.html
[21:21:23] <CaptHindsight> www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl4530-desktop-cnc-router-with-3-motors
[21:21:41] <andypugh> They have the best OD to ballscrew diameter ratio, but a "stealth" return tube
[21:21:48] <zeeshan> lol
[21:22:00] <zeeshan> well i could mill a pocket for the return tube
[21:22:05] <zeeshan> on the cross-slide
[21:22:08] <andypugh> If you know it is there, it's OK
[21:22:14] <CaptHindsight> uses these screws http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ballscrews-nuts/sfu1605-c7-305-6-ballscrew-flanged-nut-not-machined
[21:22:23] <andypugh> Did you look at my CNCzone thread?
[21:22:25] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: ah i see
[21:22:54] <zeeshan> yea you fit it into a block
[21:23:22] <CaptHindsight> I still have to take it apart to see why they choose such a sloppy ballscrew end support bearing
[21:23:30] <andypugh> Took a lot of peering at 3D models
[21:24:14] <PetefromTn_> Well I think I got two different guys who want to buy my lathe possibly...
[21:24:26] <zeeshan> bidding war
[21:24:27] <andypugh> The premium for a special-order preloaded pair was not very big. Delivery was several weeks, but it wasn't horribly expensive. And it is a lot stiffer.
[21:24:35] <Valen> PetefromTn_: fist fight!
[21:25:09] <PetefromTn_> LOL They can duke it out if they want but I just would like to sell it so I can get a commercial CNC lathe here.
[21:26:32] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, also if you pause the video you can see they're taking about 1/3 the cutter width at depth
[21:26:35] <CaptHindsight> isn't it fun when some specs and info is missing
[21:30:19] <skunkworks> I have ordered enough stuff from china that it doesn't bother me..
[21:30:35] <skunkworks> just have to wait.
[21:33:51] <andypugh> I have been to China. It was surprisingly "not-foreign" though Qindao might be non-typical of China as a whole
[21:34:31] <andypugh> The main thing I noticed was that they had about 20x as many cars as they had places to put them.
[21:35:49] <andypugh> Woohoo! Sounds like fun: http://www.qingdaochinaguide.com/news/events/international-beer-festival.html
[21:36:26] <Tom_itx> and people?
[21:37:21] <andypugh> No, they can handle the people.
[21:37:57] <andypugh> But they people can't walk on the huge pavements (Sidewalks) as those are all completely full of parked cars.
[21:38:22] <andypugh> I am a little surprised that they dont
[21:39:13] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Yeah it appears that way. I sure wish I could afford software that was capable of that kind of adaptive clearing pocketing and peel profile milling. Sweet stuff.
[21:39:41] <andypugh> or haven't made it illegal to park on the pavement. China seems good at enecting and policing laws
[21:41:09] <CaptHindsight> depends on the city
[21:41:22] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: I can almost get HSMworks for free. Not that that helps either of us. I have a free version of Inventor. HSMworks is free for Inventor, but the version after mine.
[21:41:57] <CaptHindsight> in Beijing people have permits to monitor and rent parking spaces on the streets, no meters
[21:42:57] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Well, Qindao need to sort their act out. It's stupid when the pedestrians all have to walk in the road because the pavements are full of cars (ie, 6" gaps between them)
[21:43:23] <CaptHindsight> cars are new there, few parking lots
[21:43:42] <CaptHindsight> 10 years ago it was still mostly bikes
[21:43:49] <andypugh> Indeed, and it's a rich town.
[21:43:57] <CaptHindsight> no old cars
[21:44:06] <andypugh> Not a one
[21:44:33] <CaptHindsight> new developments have parking lots
[21:44:39] <andypugh> The US auto makers see China as the new cash-cow
[21:44:47] <PetefromTn_> andypugh Yeah man both of those options are excellent. I mean if I was to want to do it on the sly I could have them but I don't really like worrying about it too much LOL.
[21:44:54] <CaptHindsight> but thats like 1% of China
[21:45:59] <CaptHindsight> most cabs are VW's, forget the Jetta equivalent there
[21:46:23] <andypugh> That was my impression. I would have quite liked to see 0.00001% of the other 1%
[21:46:27] <CaptHindsight> all the roads are new though
[21:47:00] <andypugh> Cabs were cheap, but extremely random.
[21:47:48] <CaptHindsight> next trip fly to Bejing and take the train to Shanghai, it's a 4.5 hour trip (700mi)
[21:48:15] <andypugh> My taxi journey from the Qindao airport to my Hotel was extremely strange.
[21:49:11] <CaptHindsight> for <$100
[21:49:20] <Tom_itx> i had a cab ride in mexico where the cab driver had vise grips for a steering wheel
[21:49:28] <CaptHindsight> love those
[21:49:42] <CaptHindsight> it works!
[21:49:50] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx I rode in several cabs in Mexico and that is an E-ticket ride to be sure. especially the bus to Tasco.
[21:50:21] <andypugh> We wandered out of the airport to find an empty taxi rank. A pretty chinese lady approached us and asked if we wanted a taxi. We said yes, and were led off to a corner of the car park, and no taxi. Eventually a car turned up. It was hard to get our luggage in the car, as his car was already full of stuff. (a large LPG tank didn't help, but random stuff too).
[21:50:38] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: was it a rideshare with poultry?
[21:50:48] <andypugh> No poultry.
[21:51:11] <CaptHindsight> yeah, avoid anyone that offers you a cab
[21:51:13] <andypugh> Then he drove off in the right direction (we had GPS..)
[21:51:29] <PetefromTn_> Once rode in a Jamaican Taxi cab with a couple of fellow Coast Guardsmen and the guy had like eight 6x9 speakers across the back seat shelf and BLARED the reggae music all the way from Montego Bay to Ocho Rios LOl...
[21:51:56] <andypugh> But after about 5 miles he just stopped at the side of the (no stopping) motorway/freeway, with many other cars and drivers.
[21:52:09] <andypugh> Discussen ensued.
[21:52:10] <CaptHindsight> I once had a taxi take me the scenic route for 1 hour for a 15 trip
[21:52:20] <CaptHindsight> 15 minute
[21:52:35] <andypugh> 10 minutes later we were asked to move to a diffferent car.
[21:52:37] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, just got back from there
[21:52:42] <CaptHindsight> lol
[21:52:52] <Tom_itx> no taxi rides though
[21:52:56] <andypugh> That one looked like a taxi. It had a driver-cage and a meter.
[21:53:35] <andypugh> And he took us to.... well, actually, to a filling station, where he filled up the LPG tank.
[21:53:49] <CaptHindsight> I once arranged for a private car to pick me up since my flight arrived at midnight...
[21:53:58] <andypugh> Then he took me to the hotel. Well, he claimed he had, but he was wrong.
[21:54:04] <CaptHindsight> oh man
[21:54:42] <andypugh> I wandered the streets for a while before deciding to break the seal on my mobile data and consult my iPhone map.
[21:54:45] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx From where?
[21:55:02] <andypugh> Then wallked to the hotel. And it was OK.
[21:55:06] <Tom_itx> Tx
[21:55:10] <CaptHindsight> so you were in two taxis for an hour and so far spent $3 :)
[21:55:26] <Tom_itx> oh jamaca
[21:55:54] <PetefromTn_> Have not been back in a LONG time... It was a beautiful place, is it still?
[21:55:57] <andypugh> At no point was I ripped-off. My friend paid the second driver a completely reasonable fee, we paid the first driver nothing. I have no idea what was going on.
[21:56:08] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: how was the hotel? Did it have one of those crazy IP TV boxes?
[21:56:08] <Tom_itx> yup but poor
[21:56:19] <PetefromTn_> oh then not much has changed then LOL...
[21:56:20] <Tom_itx> coming in the harbor was nothing but a trail of trash
[21:56:27] <skunkworks> andypugh: did you have better luck in wichita? (even though you got looked at funny for walking?)\
[21:56:31] <Tom_itx> didn't see that the last time i was there
[21:56:39] <andypugh> The hotel was properly lovely. I would go back there any time
[21:57:17] <Tom_itx> those are generally pretty good
[21:57:19] <PetefromTn_> We stopped there on a midport when I was a seaman on the USCGC Steadfast. Spent like four days there and had some fun but you gotta be careful there folks can disappear LOL
[21:57:21] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: I though it was because of his Canadian accent
[21:58:10] <Tom_itx> andypugh that was a hampton wasn't it?
[21:58:43] <Tom_itx> it's a bit off the beaten path from the airport
[21:58:53] <Tom_itx> but closer to your destination
[21:59:00] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: http://www.chinagongshe.com it's very nice and quite cheap.
[21:59:34] <CaptHindsight> looks nice
[21:59:46] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: cmorley was harder to place.. He kept saying zed this and zed that... (I thought he was Australian...)
[21:59:52] <andypugh> Yeah, we lucked-out :-)
[22:00:12] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I have friends book my rooms there, they get the local rate ~50%
[22:00:34] <andypugh> It's part hotel and part art gallery, and part very nice restaurant.
[22:00:47] <CaptHindsight> thats pretty trendy for China
[22:01:44] <andypugh> if you are in Qingdao then I recommend it. The Interncontental as 4x the price, but is no better, and less friendly, and feels like any hotel anywhere.
[22:02:02] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: did they speak any English?
[22:02:57] <andypugh> Some. Not a lot. But that was part of the fun.
[22:03:32] <CaptHindsight> wow $100/night
[22:03:45] <humble_sea_bass> the month i spent in japan drifting was fun because I had no idea what the fuck ppl were saying
[22:03:49] <humble_sea_bass> it is liberating
[22:04:33] <andypugh> Luckily I was with a friend who speaks Japanese, so at least knew how to write chinese into an iPhone app to be translated
[22:04:40] <CaptHindsight> we work in some small towns in China where they rarely get a westerner
[22:04:50] <andypugh> I dont
[22:05:02] <tjtr33> wei guo ren ( outside people )
[22:05:39] <humble_sea_bass> i keep a cowboy hat and boot with spurs for such towns
[22:05:42] <CaptHindsight> it takes a bit to get used to being the center of attention
[22:05:50] <humble_sea_bass> never want to disappoint
[22:06:07] <andypugh> Think we paid $100 per night, I think we paid about $60 for the 2 weeks. But frankly that's still pretty cheap for a hotel of that quality. And I am earning in "western" so was happy.
[22:07:19] <CaptHindsight> my kids would buy the long raincoats and wear the surgical masks, they would disappear
[22:07:46] <tjtr33> the patterned smog masks?
[22:08:03] <CaptHindsight> any
[22:08:23] <CaptHindsight> only works in the rainy season
[22:09:22] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: you're pretty tall, do you recall sticking out in Taiwan?
[22:10:44] <tjtr33> heres the story, 6'4" and it begins to rain in a country where people hate getting wet, and they're all 4'2" tall. popopopop got eh umbrellas, all trying to put your eyes out!
[22:11:00] <CaptHindsight> heh
[22:11:40] <tjtr33> yeah i stuck out, esp riding on rear of scooter, all akimbo
[22:12:32] <CaptHindsight> in Taiwan they come up and talk, in China it's like you're a Martian
[22:13:43] <humble_sea_bass> likw a bad martian or like a fun martian
[22:13:57] <CaptHindsight> depends on the town
[22:14:27] <humble_sea_bass> cuz you know, whatever excuse to have a beer with a local is a good excuse
[22:14:31] <CaptHindsight> in big cities they don't notice or target you for scams
[22:14:54] <CaptHindsight> small towns are usually just surprised like a seeing a pink elephant
[22:15:28] <tjtr33> weird martian, wei guo ren is outside country people ( foreigner) their name for china is 'middle kingdom' zhong guo, they think ctr of maps is China. different mindset.
[22:15:55] <CaptHindsight> I have a t-shirt now with the words "No, thanks I don't want a massage"
[22:15:57] <xxoxx> wai guo ren
[22:16:01] <xxoxx> not "wei guo ren"
[22:16:24] <xxoxx> "wei guo ren" is a negative slang for Japanese
[22:16:34] <CaptHindsight> only in mandarin
[22:16:37] <xxoxx> "wai guo ren" is neutral, literally means foreign national
[22:16:47] <humble_sea_bass> My sister's in-laws are chinese, and I don't think they've ever accepted that they are not in china any more
[22:16:49] <tjtr33> dunno japanese, lots bnooks here transliterate it as wei
[22:17:11] <humble_sea_bass> the best part about having dinner at their place is the picture of mao over the refrigerator
[22:17:33] <CaptHindsight> I have a Mao t-shirt
[22:17:37] <tjtr33> i got one of those watch with Mao waving
[22:17:52] <humble_sea_bass> this is an unironic mao
[22:18:14] <CaptHindsight> sometimes I wear it while jogging with my CCCP tracksuit
[22:18:35] <humble_sea_bass> my sister tells me stories that when flour is on sale, her mother in law will go buy a case and put it in the garage
[22:18:53] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: where are they from?
[22:18:56] <CaptHindsight> city
[22:19:23] <humble_sea_bass> I'll ask my sister tomorrow, but they're COUNTRY
[22:19:36] <humble_sea_bass> I've been told buy I can't remember jack
[22:19:41] <xxoxx> big difference between city and country
[22:20:27] <humble_sea_bass> her mother in law obvs went through some shit back in china, poverty lack and all that
[22:21:33] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://goo.gl/maps/5OgT2 my other home
[22:22:40] <tjtr33> i'll go for a google walk there and look around. i do that for Dali City and know where everything is
[22:23:04] <humble_sea_bass> a baseball field
[22:23:50] <tjtr33> hey! no street view, i can go from my factory over to the 'dead people place' to the tiny puppet theater, to the 7-eleven, whatsup in Nanjing?
[22:24:04] <CaptHindsight> top secret :)
[22:24:17] <tjtr33> hahaha
[22:24:31] <xxoxx> ?
[22:24:40] <CaptHindsight> those pics are 2+ years old as well
[22:25:07] <xxoxx> let me take a look
[22:25:12] <xxoxx> this is from Nanjing ?
[22:25:33] <xxoxx> this is in Gao Chun county
[22:25:38] <CaptHindsight> Gaochun nanjing
[22:25:39] <xxoxx> this is way out there
[22:25:51] <xxoxx> it's the most southern county of Nanjing city
[22:25:53] <CaptHindsight> yeah 1 hour drive from downtown Nanjing
[22:26:00] <xxoxx> in China, city is bigger than county
[22:26:12] <CaptHindsight> the high tech science park
[22:26:16] <xxoxx> ok
[22:26:29] <xxoxx> that's where you are located ?
[22:26:45] <CaptHindsight> the 3D print hub
[22:26:51] <xxoxx> i see
[22:27:05] <CaptHindsight> xxoxx: 1/2 the time
[22:27:22] <xxoxx> I am downtown 1/2 the time
[22:27:33] <CaptHindsight> which one?
[22:27:36] <xxoxx> Nanjing
[22:27:45] <CaptHindsight> small world
[22:27:46] <xxoxx> I rarely go that far south
[22:27:47] <xxoxx> yeah
[22:28:27] <xxoxx> there's a CNC/mold/die/tooling mall about 1/2 hour north from Gao Chun
[22:28:44] <andypugh> Scrolling back, isn't arguing about "wai" or "wei" more about nuances of transliteration of a tonal language and likely to be more about pronunciation local to the western speaker then the chinese?
[22:29:17] <xxoxx> it depends on source of transliteration
[22:29:23] <xxoxx> "wei" is more Cantonese
[22:29:26] <CaptHindsight> lots of CNC factories in Suzhou
[22:29:30] <xxoxx> the standard Mandarin is "wai"
[22:29:39] <xxoxx> oh yeah. tons of CNC
[22:29:48] <CaptHindsight> xxoxx: do you work with CNC?
[22:30:09] <andypugh> Have read them out loud to myself (Northern English) they end up approximately identical.
[22:30:21] <xxoxx> yeah mostly electronics; some CNC stuff
[22:30:40] <CaptHindsight> xxoxx: controls?
[22:30:42] <xxoxx> actually I handle more of legal stuff
[22:30:51] <xxoxx> lawyer by training
[22:31:10] <CaptHindsight> in China?
[22:31:30] <xxoxx> US
[22:31:34] <xxoxx> in China about 1/2 the time
[22:31:46] <CaptHindsight> handy
[22:33:39] <CaptHindsight> Kei Ling gets lots of parts from the Changzhou area
[22:34:30] <CaptHindsight> I like Nanjing, it's like a scifi city
[22:34:59] <humble_sea_bass> it is probably as close to industrial revolution frontier as it gets
[22:35:05] <xxoxx> it's still being built. too much construction everywhere
[22:35:25] <xxoxx> downtown is very nice
[22:35:44] <CaptHindsight> and Shanghai is only 2 hrs by train
[22:36:36] <xxoxx> 1 hour 20 minutes if in a hurry
[22:36:51] <CaptHindsight> I still have to get my drivers license there
[22:37:06] <xxoxx> just get it stamped at the police station
[22:37:14] <xxoxx> you can drive with a valid US license
[22:37:22] <CaptHindsight> that's news
[22:37:23] <xxoxx> for up to 30 days from last entry
[22:37:29] <CaptHindsight> oh ok
[22:37:35] <xxoxx> if staying for longer, then need a local stamp
[22:38:19] <CaptHindsight> i can just take the written test and it's good for years
[22:38:34] <CaptHindsight> I'll check on the 30 day though
[22:39:11] <CaptHindsight> the government office is right across the street and they have no clue
[22:39:56] <xxoxx> US driver's license with Chinese translation; authenticated at the Chinese consulate when you get your visa is good enough
[22:40:12] <xxoxx> that should work anywhere in China
[22:40:31] <xxoxx> they changed the law after around 2012 I recall
[22:40:31] <CaptHindsight> do you get the 2 year Visa?
[22:40:55] <xxoxx> 6 month stay
[22:43:41] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2009/09/06/090906NS-GK-BASSPRO154_t607.jpg seafood restaurant or Bass Pro Shop?
[22:44:43] <xxoxx> i want to build a gear hob
[22:45:09] <andypugh> xxoxx: It's not even hard
[22:45:12] <tjtr33> both! no repsectable Chinese merchant would loose a business opportunity
[22:45:37] <CaptHindsight> xxoxx: I'll have to look for that CNC/mold/die/tooling mall
[22:46:07] <xxoxx> it's in Lukou, where the airport is
[22:46:19] <humble_sea_bass> I am doing work for the NY Aquarium right now, and I was at a project meeting there yesterday and all I could think was "bass pro shop"
[22:46:20] <CaptHindsight> 1/2 way
[22:47:04] <andypugh> xxoxx: My first Hobbing setup: http://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn4 and my current one: http://youtu.be/ltmZrDrt6pQ
[22:47:22] <xxoxx> ok thanks
[22:48:34] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: where the outside is inside, and they are all located in the country anyway, they really just need a fence and some tables
[22:48:35] <xxoxx> nice horizontal
[22:48:52] <andypugh> I would kind of like to have an octopus in my house. Not as a pet as such, just something that came and went like the spiders do.
[22:49:29] <xxoxx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpJOEj-kX_o
[22:49:35] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: it would keep those pesky fish under control in your house as well
[22:49:41] <humble_sea_bass> a place where you ought to wear your visitin' overalls
[22:49:45] <andypugh> Indeed.
[22:50:24] <xxoxx> my wife's cat would snack on them octopi
[22:50:35] <andypugh> As my workkshop has been underwater (though in a small way) for much of this winter, it might be useful.
[22:51:29] <PetefromTn_> Gn8 fellas...
[22:51:30] <andypugh> There are octopi who could snack on a cat. I reckon the clever ones are cleverer than a cat, and bigger.
[22:51:48] <xxoxx> andypugh
[22:52:02] <xxoxx> andypugh: does the index head hurt the table ?
[22:52:19] <andypugh> Why would it?
[22:52:48] <xxoxx> extra weight making the table bend ?
[22:52:48] <andypugh> xxoxx: Did you see who was top comment on your link?
[22:54:01] <andypugh> My table was made by a competent company. I don't think an Osmium block would make the table bend.
[22:54:14] <xxoxx> ok
[22:55:23] <andypugh> Even if the table did bend the next question is if that bend is transferred into the workpiece. I would suspect not.
[22:56:26] <andypugh> (So, you might see a straight workpiece with slightly inconsistent (second order) Z-height. Not an easy analysis.
[22:57:01] <andypugh> Anyway, 'tis long past time I was abed.
[22:57:09] <CaptHindsight> night andy
[22:57:17] <xxoxx> bye
[22:58:00] <CaptHindsight> steppers are one of those newfangled thingies
[22:58:25] <CaptHindsight> I think that machine maker was shooting for all mechanical
[22:58:26] <xxoxx> just bought a vertical/horizontal rotary table; I think indexing head would be even heavier
[22:58:53] <CaptHindsight> yes
[22:59:09] <xxoxx> yeah like a universal indexing head; gear driven
[23:00:50] <CaptHindsight> xxoxx: ever come across older cnc machines in China?
[23:01:30] <xxoxx> you bet
[23:01:36] <xxoxx> there are tons in Jiangning
[23:01:39] <CaptHindsight> I need enough good machines to rework new local made machines
[23:01:51] <xxoxx> about half hour drive from where you are
[23:02:03] <xxoxx> literally a dime a dozen
[23:02:55] <CaptHindsight> everyone there is a EE or software
[23:03:11] <CaptHindsight> they hardly know a nut from a screw
[23:03:24] <CaptHindsight> and machine tools are magic
[23:04:33] <xxoxx> they just had a trade show; second hand German and Swiss machines exported to Nanjing
[23:04:54] <xxoxx> they will start showing up sometime this year
[23:05:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.machinedeal.com/userfiles/product/113841/113841_0_large.jpg i find these in the US for ~$3k
[23:06:17] <CaptHindsight> and similar
[23:06:50] <xxoxx> seems a good deal
[23:06:55] <xxoxx> with ATC and all
[23:07:07] <xxoxx> though I suspect it's dovetail
[23:07:38] <CaptHindsight> yeah, but in China I can buy similar China made new for ~$40K
[23:08:25] <CaptHindsight> that might need a bit more alignment and care than given by the factory
[23:09:02] <xxoxx> more like 50K RMB
[23:09:16] <xxoxx> with the ATC 100K RMB tops if it's dovetail
[23:09:32] <xxoxx> brand new
[23:09:58] <CaptHindsight> the matsuura's are bigger
[23:10:12] <CaptHindsight> big square column
[23:10:59] <xxoxx> yeah the going price for vertical machining center with full enclosure is about 100k RMB
[23:11:29] <xxoxx> anything used would be priced by weight
[23:11:34] <CaptHindsight> ~$15K USD
[23:11:40] <CaptHindsight> heh
[23:11:40] <xxoxx> yeah
[23:11:59] <CaptHindsight> whats the going price per lb?
[23:12:14] <CaptHindsight> or kg
[23:12:46] <xxoxx> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.101.SUiBxy&id=35880234986
[23:12:58] <xxoxx> 10RMB / KG
[23:13:08] <xxoxx> esentially the price of steel
[23:13:19] <CaptHindsight> not bad
[23:13:20] <xxoxx> for second hand only though
[23:13:26] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[23:13:30] <CaptHindsight> no problem
[23:13:37] <xxoxx> for really old junk; around 5RMB / KG
[23:13:55] <CaptHindsight> bridgeport clones
[23:14:10] <xxoxx> so a Bridgeport would be about 5K RMB
[23:14:17] <xxoxx> yeah Bridgeport clone
[23:14:25] <CaptHindsight> about the same here
[23:14:29] <xxoxx> or a very beat-up genuine Bridgeport secondhand
[23:15:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/CE-4-axis-Linear-Way-and_251618170.html
[23:16:00] <xxoxx> http://img1.guokr.com/image/rSErV3Ty4idUWL1Cd15Mv4fppnQXRQvpWMHvw1AMOeuLAQAAcgIAAEpQ.jpg
[23:16:31] <CaptHindsight> is that the new express? :)
[23:16:57] <xxoxx> yeah
[23:17:01] <xxoxx> you bet
[23:17:14] <CaptHindsight> going the India route
[23:17:51] <xxoxx> that thing is made on an old Bridgeport from way back
[23:18:36] <CaptHindsight> why do Converse Allstars cost 2x there?
[23:19:42] <xxoxx> tax ; import duty ; shipping
[23:19:46] <xxoxx> also branding
[23:19:56] <CaptHindsight> they are made down the street
[23:20:03] <CaptHindsight> yeah, branding
[23:20:13] <xxoxx> the CNC manufacturers in Nanjing are on the other side of city
[23:20:21] <xxoxx> there are some big ones north of the river
[23:21:17] <CaptHindsight> don't need that many, mostly need parts
[23:22:00] <CaptHindsight> xxoxx: have you run into any Linuxcnc users there?
[23:22:14] <tjtr33> or hackers in general
[23:23:21] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: we have AXIS running on the cubie2 now
[23:23:42] <tjtr33> hdmi display? remote or local?
[23:23:43] <CaptHindsight> play HD video or games while running Linuxcnc
[23:23:51] <CaptHindsight> yeah local
[23:24:03] <tjtr33> very nice, i'd like to try
[23:24:03] <CaptHindsight> HDMI
[23:24:34] <tjtr33> did you & peter get fpga card for it?
[23:24:41] <CaptHindsight> memleak is fixing crosstool ng right now
[23:24:56] <CaptHindsight> yes, working on the SPI driver
[23:25:52] <tjtr33> ah http://crosstool-ng.org/
[23:26:33] <CaptHindsight> using the Debian arm stuff right now then he's going to finish Gentoo
[23:26:55] <CaptHindsight> the devs in China are working with it now as well
[23:27:41] <tjtr33> oh, speaking of glueguns ( ; ) ever hear of large scale foam printing ( like Sao Paolo Carnival Floats ? )
[23:28:12] <CaptHindsight> urethane foam?
[23:28:33] <tjtr33> i heards some kinda biodegradeable foam, water based
[23:28:37] <CaptHindsight> or like concrete
[23:29:56] <CaptHindsight> probably some starch and oil
[23:30:18] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: what application?
[23:30:18] <tjtr33> http://media.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/images/2010/feb10/carnival_sm/carnival03.jpg
[23:30:24] <tjtr33> yeah it was starch
[23:30:56] <tjtr33> http://media.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/images/2010/feb10/carnival_sm/carnival06.jpg
[23:31:07] <tjtr33> would be fun
[23:31:34] <CaptHindsight> good for carnival floats and short term outdoor displays
[23:31:43] <tjtr33> no frkn .0001" tolerance stuff
[23:31:53] <CaptHindsight> big custom outdoor signs
[23:32:12] <tjtr33> ah well just another fantasy
[23:32:15] <CaptHindsight> trade shows, theme parks etc etc
[23:32:32] <tjtr33> then hose it down and it goes away
[23:34:46] <tjtr33> well its goodnite from me, szai gen!
[23:46:03] <CaptHindsight> Great Firewall is unstable