#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-02-26

[02:13:26] <Deejay> moin
[02:13:40] <Deejay> greetings Jymmm :)
[02:13:56] <Jymmm> mornin
[06:24:32] <jthornton> morning
[07:04:49] <Tom_itx> dusting of snow here
[07:08:18] <PetefromTn> mornin'!
[07:08:36] <Tom_itx> white one
[07:09:06] * jthornton has not looked outside yet... but it is supposed to be clear and 30F
[07:09:08] <PetefromTn> snow??
[07:09:31] <jthornton> and a crappy weekend is on the way\
[07:09:44] <PetefromTn> aw man think positive....
[07:11:08] <jthornton> I will work on something in the shop for sure... maybe fire up the splitter for the first time
[07:11:20] <PetefromTn> sweet.
[07:11:42] <PetefromTn> I am trying to get this model finished so I can try to machine it.
[07:12:51] <skunkworks> PetefromTn, what is your cad/cam?
[07:13:47] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: I am forced to use cheap stuff currently unfortunately but I am using freecad and CamBam.
[07:14:13] <skunkworks> cheap is the way I roll!
[07:14:15] <Tom_itx> 10 F
[07:14:33] <PetefromTn> yeah me too man.. I honestly love that some is open source..
[07:14:51] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Damn that sucks... but we were colder than that here for a good while.
[07:15:03] <Tom_itx> way i look at what i got is i basically got it free... paid for itself in the first year
[07:15:06] <PetefromTn> what do you use for cad cam?
[07:15:33] <Tom_itx> now i can use it's benefits from here on
[07:15:43] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: If I had some kinda prospects for real work I would absolutely ante up but until that happens I gotta be careful with money.
[07:15:56] <Tom_itx> i know, i did the same thing
[07:16:59] <Tom_itx> on another note... WSU, our local Uni went 30-0 last night final game
[07:17:05] <PetefromTn> The good news is now that the machine is running and I can make cool parts I am hoping to find someone who has some light to medium production work they need done.
[07:17:40] <Tom_itx> undefeated
[07:25:20] <PetefromTn> Hoping to get that RS232-RS485 adapter today or tomorrow so I can start working on the modbus spindle control. Still gotta figure out what sorta cable to use for it as apparently I do not use the RJ45 terminal on the VFD rather some screw terminals...
[07:25:45] <Tom_itx> that's an easy fix...
[07:25:51] <Tom_itx> cut the end off an RJ45
[07:27:57] <PetefromTn> it needs to be shielded and the other end of the RS485 is apparently some kinda DB..
[07:31:38] <PetefromTn> The VFD takes something like Sn and Sb and Ground..
[07:31:51] <PetefromTn> Sp rather..
[07:50:24] <PetefromTn> It's so sad Harold Ramis died, he was really funny guy.
[08:06:34] <PetefromTn> http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/2986/954517-ghostbusters_2_slimer_bill_murray_statue_of_libert1.jpg
[08:50:17] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: it doesnt need to be shielded
[08:50:20] <zeeshan> its a differential signal
[08:50:38] <PetefromTn> yeah but could it hurt LOL?
[08:51:34] <zeeshan> i dunno where you'd ground the shileding
[08:51:37] <zeeshan> http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2004/11/29/the_tft_connection/differential-signal.jpg
[08:51:51] <zeeshan> note how both wires wiill see noise
[08:51:53] <zeeshan> and it cancels out
[08:53:24] <PetefromTn> I figured it was going to be a DB connector and you usually ground the shielding on the metal housing as I recall..
[08:54:35] <PetefromTn> This is going from a rather large VFD directly to my computer up front so I thought it was a good idea. If it is not necessary perhaps I will reconsider but if I do it and only accomplish nothing more than making me feel better about it then it was worth it I suppose.
[09:00:16] <PetefromTn> zeeshan: how is your VFD working?
[09:10:26] <zeeshan> good man!
[09:10:50] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: you can put shielding if you want
[09:11:00] <PetefromTn> LOL
[09:11:04] <zeeshan> =D
[09:11:15] <zeeshan> but im running 20 feet of rj11 cable
[09:11:19] <zeeshan> and it hasnt been an issue
[09:11:33] <zeeshan> modbus has some error checking in it
[09:11:33] <PetefromTn> I will be more like 11 feet here..
[09:11:40] <PetefromTn> Oh really?
[09:12:00] <zeeshan> yea it uses that crc field
[09:12:03] <zeeshan> for error checking
[09:12:23] <zeeshan> fak im late for class
[09:12:25] <zeeshan> bbl!
[09:12:48] <JT-Shop> anyone seen my stapler?
[09:13:25] <PetefromTn> sure it is right where you left it...
[09:14:17] <archivist> JT-Shop, next to my missing pivot file?
[09:15:25] <archivist> finding all sorts but the damned file
[09:15:41] <JT-Shop> found it next to the coil of cannon fuse
[09:18:21] <PetefromTn> Hey I need some cannon fuse..
[09:19:45] <Jymmm> Hey, I have a bunch of safety fuse
[09:20:27] <skunkworks> logger[
[09:20:31] <skunkworks> logger[mah]_,
[09:20:32] <logger[mah]_> skunkworks: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-02-26.html
[09:26:49] <PetefromTn> What does that logger [mah] stuff mean...
[09:27:08] <Jymmm> PetefromTn: click the link
[09:27:09] <JT-Shop> click on the link
[09:27:33] <PetefromTn> Yeah I did and I know what the log is but why does he keep saying it..
[09:28:04] <Jymmm> PetefromTn: Se he can see what conversations occured while he was away
[09:28:16] <PetefromTn> oh okay..
[09:28:27] <PetefromTn> logger[mah]
[09:28:27] <logger[mah]_> PetefromTn: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-02-26.html
[09:29:22] <PetefromTn> I so don't know all this IRC chatter stuff..
[09:29:54] <Jymmm> IT's just a bot that logs conversation in the channel is all
[09:30:20] <Jymmm> It's a MiniNSA
[09:33:13] <PetefromTn> hehe
[09:33:28] <cradek> a bot is a program that connects to the channel just like a person does. this one does only two things: it makes transcripts of the channel and puts them on the web so they are searchable, and if you talk to it at all, it responds with the URL.
[09:33:38] <archivist> bookmark
[09:33:38] <the_wench> yet another log is at http://emclog.archivist.info/
[09:34:03] <cradek> ok we have several bots
[09:35:11] <Jymmm> beer me
[09:35:18] <Jymmm> damn
[09:35:36] <PetefromTn> thanks guys now I understand.
[09:35:37] <Jymmm> No beer bot <sniff>
[09:35:51] <PetefromTn> we need a lemonade bot ;)
[09:36:30] <Jymmm> PetefromTn: That's what 10yo's are for, with cardboard sign of course.
[09:36:50] <PetefromTn> Hey I got some of those....
[09:37:01] <archivist> being a serving wench at least one version had beer
[09:38:12] <archivist> one day I might upgrade its !man for this channel
[09:40:34] <PetefromTn> Where's R2e3..
[09:41:05] <archivist> machining c3p0
[09:41:28] <Jymmm> <rimshot>
[09:45:29] <PetefromTn> ba dum bum.
[09:49:51] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/295968 Does this look decent?
[09:50:37] <Jymmm> is that a linear rail with slots?
[09:51:03] <PetefromTn> yeah..
[09:51:09] <Jymmm> why the slots?
[09:51:18] <PetefromTn> its a scope riser..
[09:51:43] <PetefromTn> mounts a scope to a rifle but raises it up.
[09:51:44] <Jymmm> Ah, so it's NOT a linear rail
[09:51:55] <PetefromTn> well it is KINDA a linear rail..
[09:52:10] <Jymmm> Not really =)
[09:52:30] <Jymmm> for what ar15 ?
[09:52:33] <PetefromTn> well it is a SCOPE rail that is linear.
[09:52:46] <Jymmm> Nuh Uh
[09:53:15] <PetefromTn> http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z67/freddiev_bucket/FWBP70Field500433.jpg
[09:53:39] <Jymmm> ah
[09:56:34] <PetefromTn> man this 3d drawing can be frustrating for me..
[10:04:40] <Jymmm> Just take your time with it
[10:05:31] <PetefromTn> yeah I know... MY biggest problem is not actually creating the model it is when I try to go back in and make changes that I screw stuff up. But I need to make changes all the time until I like it.
[10:05:55] <PetefromTn> What happens is I lose stuff and constraints get conflicted.
[10:06:18] <Jymmm> lose stuff?
[10:07:09] <PetefromTn> yeah actually like that drawing I showed just a bit ago actually had a bunch of holes instead of slots in it and when I changed it to slots I could not get rid of the holes
[10:07:49] <PetefromTn> Then when i found the part of the tree that had the holes drawing I deleted it and other stuff got lost that was part of it.. I guess I don't understand how to work with the tree...
[10:08:28] <Jymmm> what other stuff?
[10:08:40] <PetefromTn> champfers and radiuses..
[10:09:09] <Jymmm> of the slots?
[10:09:18] <PetefromTn> no the holes.
[10:09:45] <PetefromTn> then that causes alarm messages that say the entity has nothing to tie it to..
[10:09:48] <Jymmm> Well wait, if you remove the holes, why do you still need the radius?
[10:10:41] <Jymmm> es
[10:10:44] <PetefromTn> I don't but the champfers are on the same face of the material so when you delete that op somehow everything that is part of it gets screwed up. It is like it is still there but you cannot make it go back to the way it was.
[10:12:28] <PetefromTn> I just screwed it up not knowing what I am doing basically. It was looking decent too. Just did the same thing to that drawing I just posted too now hehehe... Man I suck.
[10:13:07] <Jymmm> Just save different revisions; I simply use date/time appended to the filename for simplicity
[10:13:12] <PetefromTn> I thought the slots were too low so I went back into the drawing and modified the sketch that had the slots in it and then the champfers were screwed up...
[10:14:43] <Jymmm> Eh, you'll get used to it. Just takes time.
[10:15:21] <PetefromTn> yeah I hope so I need to get this part designed and machined soon tho.. I just had a neat idea for the part I want to incorporate so I guess it is start over time...
[10:45:24] <Connor> PetefromTn: Ctrl-Z can be your friend.. Undo Undo Undo! :)
[10:45:42] <PetefromTn> yeah I know man we are GOOD friends hehehe.
[10:46:13] <PetefromTn> Can't seem to get anyone to answer my questions on Freecad IRC lately tho...
[11:11:42] <JT-Shop> I hate when that happens
[11:16:20] * JT-Shop tries to remember what he was supposed to order from Amazon...
[11:22:06] <jthornton> Tom_itx, it saves now
[11:33:39] <PetefromTn> AAAAAAaaaaahhhhhhh I am about to toss this laptop out the freakin' window with this 3d drawing...jeez..
[11:36:22] <jthornton> does it have to be in 3d?
[11:36:53] <PetefromTn> no but I need to learn this SCHTUFF>.
[11:41:29] <jdh> how did you get me in there?
[11:42:39] <PetefromTn> jdh: huh?
[11:42:55] <jdh> Pete: I have problems with typing in the wrong channle.
[11:43:10] <jdh> https://plus.google.com/photos/112430417093824344570/albums/5946552813044615169
[11:43:16] <jdh> like that... wrong window again.
[11:44:36] <PetefromTn> been there...
[12:12:58] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:21:02] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: hi ;-)
[12:21:16] <kb8wmc> hello there sir, how are you today
[12:21:55] <IchGuckLive> raining outside did the hole day java programming on a farmers app
[12:22:24] <kb8wmc> that will be useful....you have much snow?
[12:22:43] <IchGuckLive> not a single flake on the ground this year
[12:38:07] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/296003 Lookin' a little better now..
[12:38:22] <PetefromTn> Downloaded the newest version and it seems to be a bit less buggy...
[12:53:45] <humble_sea_bass> how far is freecad from SW or NX
[12:58:35] <PetefromTn> right now a ways but the price is nice...
[12:58:55] <PetefromTn> The basic 3d stuff is all there tho and the newest version I can already see is much better...
[13:11:27] <humble_sea_bass> i should donate some dollars. the world needs this
[13:13:03] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: did awallin implement the g-code genrreatr already
[13:13:16] <IchGuckLive> in the new version
[13:17:24] <PetefromTn> dunno man I am still new to this and as far as I know the cam part is a ways off..
[13:19:59] <IchGuckLive> hi dnaleromj ;-)
[13:20:13] <dnaleromj> heyo!
[13:20:19] <dnaleromj> i lurk
[13:20:32] <IchGuckLive> jetleg PC
[13:21:07] <IchGuckLive> ok im off i need to move on PiZZA is Ready !!!
[13:21:31] <PetefromTn> Speakin of Pizza...
[13:23:01] <humble_sea_bass> rhinocam, for being a professional product sure feels like it is held together with twine and masking tape
[13:24:00] <JT-Shop> you should try Bob Crap
[13:24:17] <_methods> damn M2 tool steel
[13:24:20] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/48r9wcw37vj9yxa/2014-02-26%2013.40.07.jpg
[13:24:23] <_methods> pissin me off
[13:27:01] <PetefromTn> really I always heard Rhino was decent...Never tried it myself.
[13:27:29] <PetefromTn> methods...doesn't M2 need to be ground?
[13:27:42] <_methods> nah
[13:27:45] <_methods> you can machine it
[13:27:48] <_methods> just sucks
[13:28:07] <_methods> work hardens if you look at it funny
[13:28:18] <PetefromTn> it's a percentage of cobalt no?
[13:28:35] <_methods> not sure
[13:29:04] <PetefromTn> what facemill is that? perhaps try a 45 degree?
[13:29:11] <_methods> i'm switchin to 45 now
[13:29:16] <_methods> it's an R390
[13:29:23] <_methods> but going to R245 now
[13:29:52] <PetefromTn> I need to get me a nice facemill in here soon..
[13:30:10] <_methods> stick to the common inserts
[13:30:13] <humble_sea_bass> i tried bobcad and wanted to off myself. I can't believe ppl use it, much less buy it
[13:31:00] <humble_sea_bass> rhino is a really cool cad package, but be prepared to be frustrated by weird nurbs eccentricities, and the fact that it isn't parametric
[13:33:07] <awallin> _methods: wow! either you have some real talent for breaking tools, or M2 is really hard :) I haven't seen that before, but mostly using manual machines so you know/feel when to back off...
[13:33:52] <_methods> yeah i kinda figured i might lose one
[13:33:58] <_methods> started to sound rough
[13:34:03] <_methods> but i wanted to finish the cycle
[13:35:07] <Tom_itx> paid the price too
[13:35:33] <humble_sea_bass> you only pay if it goes wrong, right
[13:35:37] <awallin> does the tool glow red when that happens?
[13:35:39] <_methods> indeed
[13:35:44] <_methods> well off to run the 45
[13:35:51] <_methods> see if it goes any better lol
[13:36:06] <PetefromTn> humble_sea_bass: Rhino is not parametric huh..
[13:36:34] <humble_sea_bass> there is a plugin you can buy that will give it parametric abilities, but no
[13:36:59] <humble_sea_bass> like once you punch a hole in something that shit stays punched
[13:37:15] <PetefromTn> can you delete easily?
[13:37:27] <humble_sea_bass> so you create your own history by making copies onto layers etc
[13:38:07] <humble_sea_bass> deleting is easy, the problem is that their definition of solid is water tightness
[13:38:31] <humble_sea_bass> and the solid is really just a watertight shell, grouped together
[13:39:12] <humble_sea_bass> so upon deleting you usually have to go back and patch the hole etc
[13:39:53] <PetefromTn> Patch the Hole??? No shit that sucks,,
[13:40:51] <humble_sea_bass> yeah. it is a different work flow. all these problems can be mitigated, but it isnt like parametric when you realize something needs to be shorter etc.
[13:42:03] <Tom_itx> don't make mistakes :)
[13:42:11] <PetefromTn> Honestly I like the parametrics I just don't know what the hell I am doing so take that with a grain of salt when it comes to judging freecad. I am just getting started with 3d modeling. I will say however that I have been able to do more with that program than I ever have before..
[13:42:36] <Tom_itx> does it run under linux or windows?
[13:42:43] <PetefromTn> either..
[13:43:21] <PetefromTn> better under linux apparently but I am using a windows 8 laptop...
[15:10:58] <PetefromTn> damn netsplits..
[15:54:11] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, got your 3-d sorted out?
[15:58:02] <Connor> PetefromTn, zeeshan: I got the wj200_vfd to compile on my sim
[16:04:03] <humble_sea_bass> got a nogaflex indicator holder
[16:04:12] <humble_sea_bass> quality of life improving
[16:08:45] <JT-Shop> nogaflex is nice
[16:09:34] <MrSunshine> hmm negative endmills for wood .. feels like they would pack chips quite hard at the bottom or am i wrong here ?
[16:11:00] <MrSunshine> downcut
[16:12:40] <humble_sea_bass> depends on your grain
[16:14:37] <humble_sea_bass> positive will give you optimal shearing, so I'd roll with that
[16:14:46] <MrSunshine> or will it "eject" them backwards just like a straight flute does?
[16:15:04] <humble_sea_bass> unless i was dealing with something stupid like ipe wood
[16:15:15] <MrSunshine> humble_sea_bass, yes but an upcut also will pull the material upwards so working with thin material and no vacuum table im afraid im in for trouble =)
[16:15:20] <MrSunshine> ipe ?
[16:16:09] <humble_sea_bass> ipe is a brazilian hardwood
[16:16:13] <Kayaking4autism> I'm looking for a couple of rotating bearings with 100mm bore any ideas?
[16:17:00] <Connor> I need to suspend some unistrut from a beam.. The current way I have it, is I have lag bolts going into L brackets and then bolted to the bottom of the strut, so, the lags are in sheer. But, I need to suspend it lengthwise on the beam, so the lag screws will go up into the beam..
[16:17:08] <Connor> I'm wondering how much weight they can support...
[16:17:33] <Connor> would be rather large ones.. 1/2 dia lags..
[16:17:54] <Connor> I'll probably have to drill pilot holes..
[16:18:20] <humble_sea_bass> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390444868204578063091931357384
[16:18:23] <MrSunshine> want to try some carbide spiral bits but im afraid i will destroy them :(
[16:18:29] <MrSunshine> expensive like hell =)
[16:20:36] <humble_sea_bass> how are the bearings rotatating. paralel or perpendicular to the floor?
[16:21:11] <Connor> humble_sea_bass: Who you talking to?
[16:21:22] <humble_sea_bass> you
[16:21:34] <Connor> What bearings?
[16:21:43] <humble_sea_bass> oh shit
[16:21:57] <humble_sea_bass> i combined Kayaking4autism and your comment
[16:22:02] <humble_sea_bass> nevermind.
[16:22:31] <Kayaking4autism> two parallel two perpendicular
[16:22:36] <Connor> Trying to find something that will tell be load of a lag bolt in tension.
[16:23:13] <humble_sea_bass> conoor, look at all the hilti shit. it has tear out strength ratings
[16:23:35] <Connor> will be using it to pick up my mill, need around 300lbs.
[16:24:27] <humble_sea_bass> Kayaking4autism: you're gonna have to mcmaster that problaby
[16:24:28] <Connor> Honestly, I wish I had 2 more unistrusts.. I would make a X / Y gantry.
[16:24:41] <andypugh> Kayaking4autism: 100mm bearings are readily available. They just cost a lot of money. Or are you after a cheap alternative?
[16:25:43] <andypugh> Actually, less money than I guessed: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p170380/6020+Budget+Open+Type+Deep+Groove+Ball+Bearing+100x150x24mm/product_info.html
[16:27:25] <Kayaking4autism> They're perfect!
[16:27:34] <Kayaking4autism> Do they ship to Cyprus?
[16:28:02] <andypugh> I would expect so.
[16:29:26] <Kayaking4autism> Shipping's a bit pricey, 180 quid for 4 of em, does the trick. But just out of interest, can you think of a scrap machine that would have a similar bearing already?
[16:29:46] <humble_sea_bass> Connor: are you anchoring into wood or concrete
[16:29:54] <Connor> Wood
[16:30:20] <andypugh> Shipping is £80? That seems steep
[16:30:50] <Kayaking4autism> And 30 quid for VAT
[16:31:15] <Kayaking4autism> I wish I could ring up and say "Umm I don't consent to pay VAT, it's illegal under the Magna Carter and it's funding illegal wars"
[16:31:22] <andypugh> Now you know it is 6020, try your local eBay.
[16:31:36] <andypugh> Can you buy these?
[16:31:37] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6020C3-NTN-New-Single-Row-Ball-Bearing-/301095960685?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item461ab7c06d#shpCntId
[16:32:25] <humble_sea_bass> if you're doing 300 lbs you should be good if you distribute the load by using several lags. but those lags would hold better in shear than in tension for what it is worth
[16:32:26] <andypugh> I am suspicious that David Brown didn't mean to give them away....
[16:32:42] <Kayaking4autism> They're ideal! half the price, perfect for what I want but the shipping is not specified although he will do Cyprus
[16:32:59] <Deejay> gn8
[16:33:02] <Kayaking4autism> This is going to hold a 4 meter dish in high winds
[16:33:08] <humble_sea_bass> and if you wanna break out a calculator you can work out your theoretical pull out strength based on wood species and bolt diameter from here http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_08.pdf
[16:33:38] <Connor> humble_sea_bass: I know.. Now way to do in sheer.. unistut going on the bottom of the beam. lags on each end. It's a one time use thing.. just to move the mill off my bench and onto the stand.
[16:34:03] <Connor> can't put lag in middle because it'll stop the rollers.
[16:34:40] <Connor> I'll probably use 2 1/2" lags
[16:34:46] <Connor> 1/2" diamater
[16:34:53] <Connor> I think. I'll have to look and see what I have.
[16:47:02] <tjb1> xbox
[16:51:20] <PetefromTn> meh just lift the damn thing up it is just an 0704 LOL....
[16:51:57] <PetefromTn> Or I can loan ya my engine crane..
[16:52:54] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Sort of I finished the drawing and sent it to the customer and he loved it. SO I guess that is a good thing. Now I gotta figure out how to machine it.
[16:53:03] <Connor> PetefromTn: Too Heavy.. Don't want to take apart.. and, room not large enough for engine hoist.
[16:53:32] <PetefromTn> so grab a friend and double team it..
[16:54:12] <PetefromTn> how much does it weigh?
[16:54:21] <Connor> Best way to lift is from the head.. so as to not bend the table.. no real easy way to pick it up.. This'll work.. I can use a come along with my track.. and will be good
[16:54:26] <Connor> 250 to 300lbs
[16:54:40] <PetefromTn> bend the table??
[16:54:56] <PetefromTn> is it not cast iron?
[16:55:29] <andypugh> Hmm, 115kg, quite a lift.
[16:55:56] <Connor> Dude.. I'm telling you.. no freaking room.. Let me go take a picture...
[16:55:57] <Connor> brb
[16:56:45] <andypugh> I shifted my lathe bed from the garage to the house using a cargo strap round my shoulders. That was only 175lb, but then I drive a desk and eschew excercise :-)
[16:58:31] <PetefromTn> andypugh: I am just kinda bustin his chops man... LOL
[16:58:46] <andypugh> First tip for lifting heavy things. Put on overalls so that you don't mind getting good and close to it :-)
[16:59:17] <Connor> PetefromTn: so grab a friend and double team it.. ----> best watch it.. I'll have to grab YOU to help! :)
[16:59:29] <PetefromTn> I used to manhandle my RF45 around the shop and lifted the column and base myself..
[16:59:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: "Overalls, The condom for those that like to get down and dirty!"
[16:59:50] <PetefromTn> Connor: Hey man if there is pizza involved I would consider it. I like meat lovers...
[17:00:01] <Connor> I have bad back.. not going to risk it.. going to be hard enough on me on ladder remounting the unistrut..
[17:00:29] <PetefromTn> Maybe you should rent one of those little roll around hand forklifts...
[17:00:46] <Jymmm> pallet jack?
[17:01:01] <PetefromTn> Jymmm: its gotta go on top of something.
[17:01:18] <Jymmm> furniture dollies
[17:01:49] <PetefromTn> Are ya sure you can't get an engine crane in there they make them with folding legs..
[17:02:08] <PetefromTn> You could stand on the back as a counterweight.
[17:04:14] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_02_26_14_02.JPG
[17:04:28] <PetefromTn> Only problem is I welded the legs into the base on mine because I did not like the attachment method.
[17:04:28] <Connor> I took that picture, with my BACK against the DOOR
[17:04:53] <Connor> Needs to be picked up about 8" and move to the stand.
[17:04:59] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_02_26_14_03.JPG
[17:05:40] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_02_26_14_01.JPG The current unistrut and mounting.. I'll just move my light out of the way.. and attack directly under beam using lags on each end..
[17:05:52] <Connor> and hook come along up and pick it up, and slide it over..
[17:06:31] <Connor> of course, I have to clean everything off the enclosure and mill before I can move it..
[17:08:00] <PetefromTn> Can you shuffle the stand over to the table and scoot the mill onto the back and then move it back in place?
[17:08:32] <Connor> I can only move the stand in and out.. can't turn it, too tight..
[17:08:52] <Connor> and, also, afraid of damaging the pain job being too rough with it.
[17:09:56] <PetefromTn> Then I guess you are stuck with the levitation bit..
[17:10:12] <Connor> yea.. That's the only idea I had...
[17:10:15] <PetefromTn> or hire a couple football players to do it for ya..
[17:10:48] <PetefromTn> Looks like you need to knock a wall out tho hehehe...
[17:10:49] <Connor> Going to set it ontop of 4 hoky pucks.. so the coolant can drain.
[17:11:23] <Connor> that wall behind the workbench.. needs to go away.. and I can extend the size of my workshop another 12 to 14'
[17:11:43] <Connor> but, requires building 3 new walls...
[17:11:50] <Connor> which takes time and $$$
[17:11:55] <PetefromTn> Yeah I been there only my machine was heavier....MUCH heavier and I did it in the shop with the engine crane...was no problem..
[17:12:36] <Connor> engine crane would be great.. but, in a 11 x 7 room with a 2 x 2 area to walk.. it's not much good.
[17:12:39] <PetefromTn> It was kind of a bitch to do because I had to have the arm almost all the way extended to reach the center of the stand tho..
[17:13:29] <Connor> I would love to make a X / Y gantry from the unistrut.. that way I could pick up heavy items and move them around.. :)
[17:13:32] <PetefromTn> with 1k lbs out on the end the crane was doing some creaking hehehe
[17:13:50] <Connor> PetefromTn: You see my msg about getting that modbus driver to compile on my workstation ?
[17:14:16] <PetefromTn> no I was upstairs with the kids watching TV for awhile tho had a headache..
[17:14:41] <Connor> okay.. I got it to compile.. we just need to add code to read the amps and torque registers of you vfd.
[17:14:45] <PetefromTn> what does that mean were you able to make it run?
[17:15:04] <Connor> compile -- turn human readable code into machine code so it'll run.
[17:15:37] <PetefromTn> well that sounds pretty nice.. Hoping to get the adapter here thought it would be here today but no so far.
[17:15:42] <Connor> since I'm running on ubutnu 12.04 under and with the sim, I'll have to compile it on your machine.. but, I now know what to do and pretty good idea of what libs I need etc..
[17:15:46] <PetefromTn> Thanks for working on it man..
[17:16:51] <PetefromTn> do you gotta be here to do that?
[17:17:22] <Connor> No.
[17:18:14] <Connor> OKay.. I need to run to home depot to get a come along, and a ice maker hose or union.. sprung a leak.
[17:18:18] <Connor> back in a while
[17:18:33] <PetefromTn> I got a come along here...
[17:19:06] <PetefromTn> Don't remember what size but it should lift that thing pretty easy I think..
[17:24:24] <andypugh> Connor: I had a machine rather like that. Then I saw sense.
[17:25:06] <andypugh> Some sows' ears are just that.
[17:25:53] <andypugh> I highly recommend getting a machine built by someone who knew what they were doing, preferably 30 years ago and in Europe or the US.
[17:27:50] <Tom_itx> be prepared for a little extra weight though
[17:28:03] <Tom_itx> they didn't want em to move back then
[17:40:45] <andypugh> My Harrison milll doesn't take up a lot more floor space than the Mini-mill, but I am still adjusting to the difference in capabilit.
[17:41:26] <Tom_itx> andypugh what's that 4core arm board you're playing with?
[17:41:33] <andypugh> Udoo
[17:41:34] <PetefromTn> agreed... by the time you have a minimill setup and put motors and enclosure on it you would be surprised at how much room it takes up.
[17:41:36] <Tom_itx> k
[17:42:20] <andypugh> This is my Harrison eating cast iron. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uycWEX3_eHA&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&feature=share&index=3
[17:42:24] <PetefromTn> I had a small knee mill that actuallly took up less floor space than the RF45 did..
[17:42:44] <andypugh> The funny thing is, I later realised that the Z gibbs were completely slack!
[17:43:41] <PetefromTn> I so want a nice Horizontal and vertical manual mill with power feeds...
[17:44:06] <andypugh> You can't have mine :-)
[17:44:38] <PetefromTn> could not get it here anyways...
[17:44:55] <PetefromTn> Actually I would want something bigger like an older Cincinatti...
[17:44:56] <andypugh> I don't use the horizontal spindle much, but it's ideal for gear cutting.
[17:46:23] <PetefromTn> I like the Kearney and Treckers
[17:47:22] <PetefromTn> http://youtu.be/XD6cL8MMA0E
[17:48:21] <andypugh> Keith Fenner subscribed to my YouTube channel :-)
[17:49:04] <PetefromTn> That machine is a little beast..
[17:51:31] <andypugh> I am thinking of making a slotting head for my Harrison. (I have never seen an original one, but they were made)
[17:54:36] <PetefromTn> The quality of the build in that machine is amazing.. I cannot believe how automated it is and how many gears and whatnot it has. Just freakin' built to last...
[17:58:55] <GuShH_> andypugh: who?
[17:59:14] <Tom_itx> the guy in the video
[18:00:16] <andypugh> PetefromTn: I assume you have seen Skunkwork's K&T? CNC from 1964? They didn't skimp on that one either.
[18:02:09] <PetefromTn> yeah man if you are talking about the CNC that thing is a BEAST!
[18:55:07] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI&feature=kp
[18:55:17] <JT-Shop> for your evening entertainment
[18:57:45] <Tom_itx> you the DJ?
[18:57:47] <andypugh> Yet another male cow with an udder. That's so wrong.
[18:59:02] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:59:06] <JT-Shop> goodnight
[18:59:44] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop does it save all the settings?
[18:59:53] <andypugh> I actually quite like cows. They have a lot more natural curiosity than horses.
[19:01:26] <andypugh> (If you have ever tried to fix a broken offroad bike in a cow field, you would know that)
[19:02:14] <Tom_itx> any bulls in the croud?
[19:02:17] <Tom_itx> :)
[19:02:17] <PetefromTn> Man that is a true classic... LMAO..
[19:03:15] <PetefromTn> Forgive me but Cows and Horses are some of the stupidest animals ever to roam the earth LOL...
[19:03:48] <andypugh> Yeah, but compared to sheep..
[19:10:09] <PetefromTn> My kids just watched that for the first time and they were crackin' up. They especially like the part where he pissed in thier eye LOL
[19:11:15] <andypugh> He seemed to actually lactate in their eye. Just how confused are you guys about cows?
[19:12:47] <PetefromTn> he musta had some good aim..
[19:34:11] <andypugh> I think I have a fundamental problem. I want a surface plate big enough to check my lathe bed. But even if I wanted to afford one, I could never lift it.
[19:35:10] <andypugh> They seem to be 200kg in the 3' x 2' size
[19:35:15] <PetefromTn> Mine is like 2x3 foot..
[19:35:36] <_methods> man last shop i was at we had an 10'x5' surface plate
[19:35:42] <_methods> it was so nice
[19:35:59] <andypugh> (and that is the smallest I could possibly use, the bed overlaps the diagonal slightly)
[19:36:08] <PetefromTn> Oh they make some huge ones.. Here in Oak Ridge they had a massive round one could park a truck on it.
[19:36:23] <_methods> yeah that 10x5 made inspection so easy
[19:36:36] <_methods> i never had to worry about having room
[19:36:53] <andypugh> Yeah, but I want one I can afford and can lift that is big enough for the job. Not possible, I think,
[19:37:05] <_methods> we got it at an auction for like $5k
[19:37:17] <PetefromTn> I use my 2x3 and it is usually large enough for what I want to do..
[19:37:26] <andypugh> Plan B is granite kitchen worktop, checked against my straightedge.
[19:37:30] <_methods> and 3 of those little brown and sharpe manual cmm's
[19:38:04] <andypugh> $5k is a bit much for a hobby, to scrape-in a lathe that cost £120
[19:38:17] <_methods> oh hahah no this was for work
[19:38:23] <_methods> not for the garage
[19:38:41] <andypugh> I might see if I can run my straightedge through the CMM at work.
[19:38:45] <_methods> i use my tablesaw for my plate here lol
[19:39:00] <Tom_itx> sell it on ebay when you're done
[19:39:08] <Tom_itx> or keep it for other uses
[19:39:31] <andypugh> (I am guessing that the proto-workshop at FoMoCo is pretty high-spec :-)
[19:39:34] <PetefromTn> I got a great deal on mine from a guy who was selling quite a few different ones from a shop that went out of business.
[19:39:45] <_methods> yeah auction is the way to go
[19:39:46] <Tom_itx> he had a nice 3' x 5' or thereabouts at the shop
[19:39:47] <PetefromTn> I think I paid like $50.00 for it..
[19:39:54] <Tom_itx> probably 6" thick
[19:40:03] <andypugh> Good buy. But I still couldn't lift it
[19:40:05] <_methods> yeah that's a nice plate
[19:40:05] <Tom_itx> at least 4
[19:41:40] <andypugh> Worst eBay auction ever, look at the title and which category he put it in: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231156109312
[19:41:50] <Tom_itx> would 1/2" glass be flat enough?
[19:42:25] <andypugh> (click the "see original listing link"
[19:42:30] <_methods> hahah the spelling
[19:42:45] <_methods> or is that how you spell granite in the uk
[19:43:01] <andypugh> It seems to be how _he_ spells is
[19:43:07] <_methods> hahah
[19:43:19] <andypugh> And Militaria->Surplus?
[19:43:45] <_methods> yeah if you shoot off a granite surface plate you'll be more accurate
[19:43:59] <andypugh> I would have bid higher, except I could not figure out how I could unlad it from the car.
[19:44:14] <_methods> pipes and straps lol
[19:44:22] <_methods> and lots of grease
[19:44:24] <andypugh> 200kg?
[19:44:26] <Tom_itx> andypugh tell em you wanna test trucks for a while
[19:44:34] <_methods> and a couple fat girls
[19:44:53] <andypugh> Yeah, I need to make contacts in the Transit van team, or the Ranger team.
[19:44:54] <_methods> you use them for leverage
[19:45:39] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/296064 Here's mine..
[19:46:08] <Tom_itx> that's not a bad size
[19:46:09] <_methods> yeah that's perfect for at the machine
[19:46:10] <andypugh> I want mine to be better focussed :-)
[19:46:12] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/296065
[19:47:12] <andypugh> I have a 40" lathe bed though.
[19:47:51] <Tom_itx> what about glass?
[19:47:54] <andypugh> I think I am going to see how flat the kitchen worktops are.
[19:48:09] <andypugh> I have a 12um 1m straightedge
[19:48:34] <PetefromTn> Before I got this one I had gone to a local monument shop to see if they had any scraps I got a decent piece like maybe 12x20 for free from them...
[19:48:43] <andypugh> So I can check the worktops. I suspect they end up really flat by accident, and are not calibrated
[19:49:01] <Tom_itx> http://clearwateren.com/engineering.php
[19:49:10] <Tom_itx> there's part of the table
[19:50:08] <andypugh> Stuart S has a nice big table, and a nice laser thing too. The laser thing is properly cool.
[19:50:29] <Tom_itx> i saw his edm but didn't see the inspection room
[19:51:01] <Tom_itx> http://clearwateren.com/quality-assurance.php
[19:51:04] <Tom_itx> there's his cmm
[19:51:15] <postaL> anyone have a source for 1/4" to 1/8" collets for routers?
[19:51:22] <postaL> i have a dewalt router that i need an adapter for :(
[19:51:36] <Tom_itx> somebody here found some
[19:52:27] <andypugh> He has a laser on a tripod that tracks a corner-cube ball wherever in the room you take it. It's a bit like being on the wrong end of an ED-209
[19:52:59] <Tom_itx> i'd like to have seen that
[19:53:36] <Tom_itx> same stuff they use in shipyards?
[19:53:40] <Tom_itx> for leveling
[19:53:52] <andypugh> postaL: Hmm, there is a US source that I have never used, but have heard mentioned. It might come to me
[19:54:05] <postaL> ping me if it does :-D
[19:54:44] <postaL> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Router-collet-1-8-X-1-4-brass-/171020820227
[19:55:13] <andypugh> postaL: http://www.precisebits.com
[19:55:30] <postaL> i love how most of the cnc website are built in 1996
[19:55:31] <postaL> :))
[19:57:35] <andypugh> Brass is an under-rated material nowadays.
[19:57:44] <_methods> overpriced material
[19:58:24] <_methods> no body can afford to use copper or brass anymore
[19:58:25] <andypugh> Expensive material. But cheap to machine, and has good properties. The
[19:58:50] <Tom_itx> likes to grab cutters
[19:58:55] <_methods> you know it
[19:58:58] <Tom_itx> but generally easy to machine... yes
[19:58:58] <andypugh> You can often make back the material cost in machining cost
[19:59:17] <_methods> haha i heard about a shop someone told them to use kerosene or something like that for coolant while cutting it
[19:59:22] <postaL> http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bushing_ball_bearings.html
[19:59:24] <_methods> so they filled the coolant tank wiht kerosene
[19:59:31] <Tom_itx> i keep a few brass bars on hand here
[19:59:49] <Tom_itx> right now one is a counterweight on my sherline Z axis
[20:00:07] <andypugh> it's not _that_ expensive, especailly cast to near-net shape.
[20:00:30] <Tom_itx> about 2.125" roundbar
[20:01:10] <andypugh> Stronger than mild steel, never corrodes. What's not to like?
[20:01:39] <_methods> looks sexy too
[20:01:43] <Tom_itx> i think i've got a stick of bronze too
[20:02:03] <Tom_itx> more copperish color than brass
[20:02:36] * Jymmm found a bunch of copper just laying there behind some drywall.
[20:02:40] <andypugh> Aye, the pannier rack on my R1 is stainless tube and brass hangers. Looks kind-of cool. Until I put the panniers on, when it looks like a sin against motorcycling.
[20:03:19] <skunkworks> we have the power distribution planes from the K&T control - about 1/8 thick - 4"X5ft about
[20:03:31] <skunkworks> it comes in handy
[20:03:39] <skunkworks> (copper)
[20:03:41] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Your vagueness about materials makes the metallurgist in me sad.
[20:03:59] <Tom_itx> if i knew exactly what it was...
[20:04:06] <Tom_itx> all from the surplus store
[20:04:18] <Jymmm> "Newsflash... Grave sites robbed of gold jewelry and titanium medical devices"
[20:04:21] <andypugh> I could look at it and tell you.
[20:05:19] <Tom_itx> alot of the brass is end stock from barb fittings etc i made years ago
[20:05:28] <skunkworks> I thought you had to taste it... ;)
[20:05:32] <Tom_itx> up to 1"
[20:05:38] <andypugh> Though I have no real idea how I can tell alloy steel from mild steel, or phossy-bronze from alumimium bronze, I just can.
[20:06:26] <andypugh> Jymmm: Newsflash from the days of the Pharohs?
[20:06:42] <PetefromTn> I need some small brass pieces for a project I am working on like 1.5" round stock....
[20:07:02] <Tom_itx> how small?
[20:07:06] <andypugh> PetefromTn: eBay for short lengths.
[20:07:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: From the hours of yesterday. It' the new Being Green and recycling project =)
[20:07:34] <PetefromTn> I think I got a piece here that is like ten inches by 1.5 or so but I gotta see because I made a sorta ornate turning out of it once...
[20:07:48] <andypugh> Absolutely, anyone buried with non-biodegradables deserves to lose them.
[20:08:04] <Jymmm> exactly
[20:08:25] <Jymmm> who needs solid brass handle on their coffin like that
[20:08:57] <andypugh> It's just selfish. And being selfish and dead makes no sense at all
[20:09:27] <Tom_itx> possibly a good combination though
[20:09:31] <PetefromTn> Personally I don't understand why we bury people that is not sustainable over the long haul LOL...
[20:09:47] <Jymmm> Sure, yu can take it with you, but, we're gonna get it back! Go ahead and try to stop us!
[20:09:55] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn, it's a whole industry
[20:10:04] <Jymmm> ...you're dead biotch!
[20:10:08] <PetefromTn> Oh I know and they are making a lot of bank..
[20:10:23] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i'll come back and haunt you
[20:10:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And I'd just laugh =)
[20:10:41] <skunkworks> they do green burials around here. (wrap you in a sheet - bury you in the woods.)
[20:10:46] <Tom_itx> or come back in the form of your ex
[20:10:52] <andypugh> I am tempted to donate my body to medical students, on the proviso that off-colour practical jokes with my parts are de-riguer. I really do not expect to care at that point.
[20:11:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Think about it a moment... I annoy the hell out of people now, what do you think I'd do if you were dead?
[20:12:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: So, who's haunting who now? Muhahahahahaha
[20:12:32] <andypugh> <serious philosophical point> I think that Microsoft have helped chane
[20:12:32] <Tom_itx> we joke about that here.. how we will know it's us when we're gone when we come back to haunt each other
[20:13:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: our annoyances....
[20:13:43] <PetefromTn> Jeez man the shit we talk about on here hehehehe....
[20:13:55] <skunkworks> reason why mach is faster? http://imagebin.org/295789
[20:14:01] <andypugh> ... Change attitudes here. It used to be that you could not believe that a person was gone with no return. But after losing a few multi-hour Word documents, you realise that what is gone really can be gone for good.
[20:14:42] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: Huh what do you mean?
[20:14:48] <Tom_itx> crap that sucks
[20:14:54] <Tom_itx> no kidding...
[20:15:11] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn look at the actual and the followed path
[20:15:26] <andypugh> skunkworks: Hmm, feedback from the Mach stepper to the Linux CNC system with following error > 12" ?
[20:15:49] <PetefromTn> is this not linuxCNC?
[20:15:49] <skunkworks> (granted that is flat-out strait G64...)
[20:16:11] <andypugh> This really is a fun setup you have
[20:16:14] <skunkworks> But I don't think people even know what it is doing..
[20:16:35] <skunkworks> andypugh: it is fun..
[20:17:12] <Tom_itx> by 'people' you mean mach users?
[20:17:22] <skunkworks> yes
[20:17:31] <skunkworks> 'it runs faster - it is better'
[20:17:35] <Tom_itx> post that on their forum ;D
[20:17:39] <PetefromTn> I see how the toolpath and the actual path are quite different.
[20:17:44] <andypugh> To be honest, the fact is that any part like that is art not engineering, and the finished result will look good
[20:17:55] <skunkworks> constraint violations are larger as the speed increases..
[20:18:19] <PetefromTn> how did you get mach3 toolpaths into linuxCNC sim?
[20:18:36] <Tom_itx> andypugh, not necessarily... aircraft are highly surfaced parts
[20:18:36] <skunkworks> with 30 in/s^2 and 500ipm - it does ok at <75ipm.. but if you run it flat out - you get that...
[20:19:05] <andypugh> Tom_itx: And how many aircraft manufacturers use Mach?
[20:19:07] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: I am using mesa hardware to count the step/dir out of mach..
[20:19:18] <Tom_itx> heh, none i know of
[20:19:29] <skunkworks> so linuxcnc is seeing it like an encoder feed back
[20:19:42] <andypugh> How many aircraft manufacturers use LinuxCNC?
[20:19:51] <Tom_itx> stuart
[20:20:04] <andypugh> :-)
[20:20:09] <skunkworks> so I get velocity and position out of the mesa card and calculate acceleration..
[20:20:10] <Tom_itx> maybe a few more
[20:20:56] <skunkworks> maybe the constraint violations are small enough that most steppers (and probably more so step-servo) systems don't really notice it.
[20:21:25] <Tom_itx> skunkworks what's the stepover distance on the path there?
[20:21:46] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: I would have to look.. (I don't have it here..)
[20:21:51] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/292790
[20:21:53] <andypugh> skunkworks: I _think_ LinuxCNC guarantees to touch every line segment in any mode. Mach is not even doing that in that plot.
[20:22:00] <skunkworks> that violation is within 100ms..
[20:22:08] <skunkworks> andypugh: right.
[20:22:41] <Tom_itx> Woops! That image may have been removed
[20:22:50] <andypugh> I think you have been talking on their mailing list, is that publically accessible?
[20:23:19] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/MachViol.png
[20:23:46] <skunkworks> yes - although it the few post lately have been radio silence
[20:23:53] <andypugh> Art has been in the discussion, I believe?
[20:23:58] <skunkworks> not that it really matters.
[20:24:01] <skunkworks> sure - let me find it
[20:24:54] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/143276
[20:25:15] <andypugh> Ideally it would be good if both LinuxCNC and Mach could get better. This isn't a war, this is people supplying software to people who make stuff.
[20:25:55] <skunkworks> andypugh: sure. Actually partly why I posted it.. (partly ;) )
[20:26:42] <andypugh> Hmm, needs a Yahoo login, but I have one.
[20:27:14] <skunkworks> shouldn't - it maybe the link is in as me.. the mach yahoo group allows you to read them.
[20:30:55] <skunkworks> I think the new TP performs as good or better. (from my bit of testing)
[20:31:12] <skunkworks> Plus you get a lot better control over path following
[20:33:30] <PetefromTn> as good or better than what?
[20:34:03] <skunkworks> mach
[20:34:48] <Tom_itx> or previous linuxcnc
[20:34:56] <PetefromTn> I thought it was already better than mach.. We talking about mach4 here?
[20:35:04] <jdh> new and improved!
[20:35:15] <jdh> best vaporCNC!
[20:35:50] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: the big complaint of the current trajectory planner in linuxcnc is that files with lots of sort segments perform poorly if run at higher speeds.
[20:36:23] <jdh> is that indicative of poor CAM?
[20:36:32] <skunkworks> The main issue is linuxcnc currently only looks one segment ahead. (which works fine for most things)
[20:36:51] <Tom_itx> jdh, that's a possibility but the path following is in the control
[20:36:54] <PetefromTn> what does the new TP do?
[20:37:05] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: looks ahead :)
[20:37:16] <PetefromTn> yeah I know that but how far?
[20:37:21] <skunkworks> you can set it. (I have set it at 50)
[20:37:34] <PetefromTn> 50 lines of code?
[20:37:37] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, is that the ini settings you told me about?
[20:37:42] <skunkworks> yes
[20:37:50] <PetefromTn> what is the max?
[20:38:01] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn it's one of the 3 versions i'm running here
[20:38:05] <skunkworks> I don't know if there is a limit - that would be a question for rob
[20:38:09] <jdh> sure, but do you need to optimize the planner for poor cam software?
[20:38:27] <Tom_itx> skunkworks that might be a memory constraint...
[20:38:36] <PetefromTn> how does the amount of look ahead setting increase affect the way the control runs?
[20:38:37] <skunkworks> sure - or calculating speed..
[20:38:46] <skunkworks> it has to do it in a servo cycle
[20:39:02] <skunkworks> I didn't see a performance increase setting it higher..
[20:39:27] <skunkworks> mach - I had to set it to 200 lines to get it not to dip.
[20:39:47] <PetefromTn> I assume you are testing in simulation under complex 3d toolpaths
[20:40:02] <skunkworks> jdh: now poor cam paths run very well
[20:40:05] <skunkworks> :)
[20:40:31] <PetefromTn> How far along before the new TP will be in a stable release or in master?
[20:41:09] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/27368-new-trajectory-planner-testersprograms-wanted?start=110#44153
[20:41:17] <PetefromTn> I ran mach3 and was not even aware you could adjust the lookahead...
[20:42:15] <andypugh> If you watch this video of mine, and have the patience to get to 1:20 you will see that some XZ blends are strange: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSLB-ue4CTI&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&feature=share&index=10
[20:42:24] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn you can download and compile it
[20:42:27] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: not sure - after the next release of linuxcnc.. but I think they want to get the buildbot building debs so people can test.
[20:43:46] <skunkworks> That is a good thread explaining it...
[20:45:05] <PetefromTn> andypugh: you mean how it kinda staggers atop the radius there?
[20:45:30] <PetefromTn> this is with the new TP?
[20:45:35] <andypugh> Yes. No reasson to that I could see either.
[20:46:05] <andypugh> No, that was with the normal TP, I was just making a pattern
[20:46:27] <andypugh> But running a lot faster than I would in metal.
[20:46:28] <PetefromTn> Okay so the new TP may have improved this?
[20:46:50] <andypugh> We can hope
[20:47:22] <Tom_itx> i wonder how accurate fanuc etc controls actually are
[20:48:15] <skunkworks> well - what is nice about linuxcnc is you can follow it as close as you want.
[20:49:04] <andypugh> In my ideal world Art and Rob work together to make both LinuxCNC and Mach better.
[20:49:52] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/294306
[20:50:03] <skunkworks> that is mach with 20 segment look ahead
[20:50:32] <andypugh> I was an Apple fan in the 90s. You can still feel superior with a tiny market share, trust me on this
[20:51:31] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:52:32] <andypugh> skunkworks: With all due respect, that's just squiggles. Nobody but you knowns what that means. The other image was really clear. This is your code, this is the path.
[20:52:37] <PetefromTn> that screenshot looks pretty but again I don't understand it. Maybe I am in the wrong forum because I always feel like a dumbass around here LOL..
[20:53:05] <Tom_itx> it's a comparison of input vs output
[20:53:27] <skunkworks> andypugh: sorry - trying to find another picture
[20:53:28] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/294945
[20:53:37] <skunkworks> that is with 200 line look ahead.
[20:53:37] <andypugh> PetefromTn: No, I am really clever, and I don't get it either. :-)
[20:53:39] <skunkworks> (a lot better)
[20:53:57] <PetefromTn> ;P
[20:54:56] <PetefromTn> so is the blue the actual path?
[20:55:21] <skunkworks> the blue line in the first one is xyz velocity. The second one (of course I must have changed xyz velocicty to red) is better
[20:55:27] <Tom_itx> why is the vel 1/div and the accel 20/div?
[20:55:41] <Tom_itx> is that amplitude?
[20:55:45] <skunkworks> vel is in in/sec...
[20:56:59] <skunkworks> so the first image must be showing machs version of que starvation
[20:57:32] <andypugh> No, really, it's just squiggles to us.
[20:58:25] <skunkworks> be the squiggles!
[20:58:43] <andypugh> Green is real, I get that.
[20:58:48] <PetefromTn> my head hurts from squiggles.
[20:59:24] <skunkworks> is that green - sorry - I am color blind..
[20:59:58] <andypugh> But I don't see what I can deduce from comparing encoder.00.velocity to any of the accell curves?
[21:00:45] <skunkworks> does it help to know that the acc is delayed by 36ms from the velocity?
[21:01:07] <skunkworks> you can really see it here..
[21:01:09] <skunkworks> linuxcnc.org/
[21:01:12] <PetefromTn> so all I wanna know is does the new TP kick mach3's ass?
[21:01:16] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn: Got the mill moved into the enclosure.
[21:01:30] <skunkworks> or here here even http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/MachViol.png
[21:01:36] <PetefromTn> Connor: Super man glad to hear it. Got all your fingers and toes still?
[21:01:38] <andypugh> Not really, as I rather exoect them to be different numbers
[21:01:48] <Connor_iPad> Oh yea. Wasn't too bad.
[21:02:37] <PetefromTn> SO I assume you are smiling ear to ear then...
[21:03:05] <skunkworks> andypugh: assuming I am not doing something wrong..
[21:03:33] <skunkworks> andypugh: in the last screen shot - if you calculate out the acc from the change in velocity - it seems to be right...
[21:03:44] <andypugh> skunkworks: No, really, I can't. I see two positions and one velcity and one accel. what should I be comparing to what?
[21:05:39] <andypugh> Maybe there is a limits violation, but there are no limits on the graph.
[21:06:42] <andypugh> (If you want limit curves you could create a signal, sets it, and plot it)
[21:07:23] <skunkworks> wait - what? http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/MachViol.png mainly what we are looking at velocity and - the slope of the velocity is acceleration.
[21:07:36] <skunkworks> or am I missing something?
[21:07:53] <andypugh> Yes, and, what is wrong?
[21:08:10] <skunkworks> I am taking the dirivitive of the velocity and getting acceleration (over 36ms) -
[21:08:48] <skunkworks> ah - ok - the accelleration calculated should be under 30in/s^2 and it is peaking at over 100
[21:08:59] <andypugh> Ah!
[21:09:02] <skunkworks> :)
[21:09:15] <skunkworks> we communicate as well as my wife and I
[21:09:25] <skunkworks> we communicate as well as my wife and I
[21:09:29] <skunkworks> heh
[21:09:33] <skunkworks> maybe it is me.
[21:10:04] <andypugh> You perhaps should have mentioned what the max accel was meant to be.
[21:10:06] <Tom_itx> is that a product of PID overshoot?
[21:10:19] <skunkworks> (I have been mainly testing linuxcnc and mach with machine settings to 500ipm and 30in/s^2)
[21:10:31] <skunkworks> andypugh: agreed
[21:10:54] <skunkworks> wait - 'maybe it IS me'
[21:11:43] <andypugh> I am cautious about measuring accel from discrete data
[21:12:19] <skunkworks> well - I trust the velocity plot.. And if you do a paper on the screen calculation - it comes out to the same.
[21:12:24] <skunkworks> andypugh: what would be better?
[21:12:47] <andypugh> You asked..
[21:12:49] <skunkworks> *strait edge on the screen
[21:12:56] <PetefromTn> I liked the screenshot of the toolpath more it was easier to understand.
[21:13:31] <andypugh> I prefer to take a least-squared polynomial fit to the data, then explicilty differentiate.
[21:15:46] <skunkworks> so - log the data and process it
[21:15:54] <andypugh> So, if your polynomial fit gives you y = 1 + 2.x + 3.x2 + 4.x3 then the accel is the derivitive of that polynomial
[21:16:57] <andypugh> (which I think is 2 + 3/2 x + 3/4 x^2 but it's been a while
[21:17:21] <skunkworks> my calculus is a bit rusty...
[21:17:26] <andypugh> Mine too
[21:18:36] <andypugh> But the point is that you fit a polynomial to a segment of the data around where you are looking, and get the gradient of that
[21:19:26] <andypugh> Even Excel can give you the polynomial, then the gradient is fairly easy.
[21:19:36] <skunkworks> sure
[21:20:20] <andypugh> email me the data and I will make Matlab do the dull stuff
[21:21:01] <andypugh> (halscope can save data, a much under-used facility)
[21:22:34] <skunkworks> sure - I will do that tomorrow - thanks!!
[21:24:40] <skunkworks> would you only need velocity?
[21:25:06] <skunkworks> *what would you like to see?
[21:27:33] <andypugh> If you give me velocity it would be interesting to see what my algorithm calculates accel at.
[21:27:48] <Connor> skunkworks: andypugh: What are you two going on about?
[21:28:33] <andypugh> I can't imagine I am the only one to ever do a poly fit the explicitly differentiate, but neither has anyone else mentioned the ide to me.
[21:29:41] <skunkworks> I have logged the output of one of the 'other' machine control..
[21:34:13] <skunkworks> andypugh: all I can compare to is the output of linuxcnc's step/dir. with the derivative over 36ms - I rarely get anything over 35in/s^2
[21:35:42] <andypugh> Aye, I am just saying that accel is notoriously hard to calculate.
[21:38:14] <skunkworks> as I found out. You should see what it looks like if you calculate it every servo cycle.. ;)
[21:38:22] <skunkworks> noise
[21:38:45] <andypugh> And a lowpass is a bad estimate.
[21:40:39] <skunkworks> sure - I tried an actual low pass also.. pcw_home came up with the idea of measuring the acc in a slower thread
[21:41:10] <skunkworks> sort of a different low pass... ;)
[21:43:14] <andypugh> Hmm, not the best solution.
[21:43:47] <skunkworks> well - it surely doesn't catch things. (mutlible runs give different results..)
[21:44:02] <andypugh> I came up with the numerical differntiation thing working on impact testing, where it really matters.
[21:45:55] <skunkworks> andypugh: neat. It would make me feel better if someone else looked at the data..
[22:01:19] <zeeshan> man
[22:01:22] <zeeshan> i hit a big score today
[22:01:50] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/3222189E-B4D9-406E-A69A-43B742D06EB1_zpsizwqfu6f.jpg
[22:01:54] <zeeshan> all for $50
[22:02:01] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/B9292AD6-5E3F-4292-B039-C04B95D6A371_zpsp94xkqix.jpg
[22:03:08] <Tom_itx> you got holders for em?
[22:03:55] <zeeshan> ya
[22:04:05] <zeeshan> tcmt is for the boring bars
[22:04:17] <zeeshan> wnmg is for the faceing/parting tools
[22:04:18] <zeeshan> er
[22:04:23] <zeeshan> facing/turning tools