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[01:43:46] <Matze_> hey, can someone tell me, what is better... the normal pid or at_pid ? :)
[02:03:57] <Deejay> moin
[02:07:40] <Matze_> hi
[02:08:29] * archivist has never heard of at_pid where did that come from
[02:08:46] <Matze_> auto tuning pid
[02:09:01] <Matze_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/at_pid.9.html
[02:09:20] <Matze_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/pid.9.html
[02:09:59] <Matze_> auto tuning is with ziegler-nichols algorithm, but i cant tell what is better to use
[07:18:40] <Matthias_Reis> hi, is there an up to date manhelp for motion ?
[07:37:24] <skunkworks> Matthias_Reis, what are you looking for?
[07:37:53] <Matthias_Reis> overview for motion module
[07:39:12] <Matthias_Reis> i found a man page of motion but it says, that it is horrible incomplete
[07:55:12] <skunkworks> Matthias_Reis, does this help?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
[08:07:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2394 from wobbly machine to larger and more expensive wobbly machine
[08:11:30] <jdh> interesting how 166oz motors are 'more powerful'
[08:13:17] <CaptHindsight> well 166 is more than 165
[08:44:13] <archivist> jeeesus what a flimsy machine
[08:51:13] <jthornton> lol
[09:13:25] <jdh> anyone know of a solidworks for dummies tutorial thing?
[09:14:16] <ReadError> youtube has some decent stuff
[09:25:09] <terabyte-> the solidworks lessons that are built into the program are really awesome too
[09:25:29] <jdh> oh. Didn't see those.
[09:25:57] <R2E4> anyone have a good basic servo tuning tutorial?
[09:26:11] <jdh> R2: did you read JT's?
[09:26:16] <R2E4> yes
[09:26:41] <R2E4> I need external. Tuning servo to amp without linuxcnc
[09:27:06] <jdh> oh. There are tons of them out there. The drive should have tuning instructions.
[09:27:56] <R2E4> They have two pots and say if it is vibrating, adjust them. Thats all, and it may be because of unshielded cable. Thats what the manual has about it.
[09:28:11] <jdh> heh, get a new drive :)
[09:28:24] <R2E4> IT is the manual that came with the machine that discusses it, otherwise the actual drive manual is in Japaneese.
[09:28:35] <jdh> what drive mfg?
[09:28:41] <R2E4> I dont have 6,000.00 for bnew drives
[09:29:16] <jdh> http://www.freejapaneselessons.com/
[09:29:36] <jdh> what are the two pots? zero offset and gain?
[09:30:03] <jdh> is there a serial interface or something? You have to set more than 2 pots for tuning
[09:31:23] <R2E4> IT says lower the loop gain with vr3 and vr6
[09:31:49] <R2E4> There is 6 pots
[09:33:06] <R2E4> Sanyo Denki BL Super amps.... BL827 27BA030FXT, two of those and one 27BA050FXT
[09:35:51] <jdh> sorry :)
[09:36:08] <jdh> are the pots labeled? Graduated?
[09:36:48] <R2E4> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANYO-DENKI-BL-SUPER-27BA030FXT33C-AMPLIFIER-DRIVE-/230417815026?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a5f8d5f2
[09:37:01] <R2E4> thats exactly what they are.
[09:38:51] <R2E4> VR1 is used for adjusting zero, Vr2 is for speed scale and vr3 and vr6 is gain adjustments.
[09:40:32] <R2E4> better pic of the amp.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sanyo-Denki-BL-Super-27BA050FXT38-Servo-Amplifier-A050-08AB-/360548814953?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item53f2625069
[09:42:27] <R2E4> These were working when the machine was shut down a few years ago. Is it normal to have to retune the amps?
[09:43:57] <JT-Shop> the service guy for Anilam said I should tune my amps once a year... don't know about your amps or if they were in tune when last used
[09:46:48] <R2E4> ah yeah? once a year?
[09:46:55] <skunkworks> if you unhook the inputs - does it still jitter?
[09:47:15] <jdh> we have servos all over the place (not CNC machines) They never get retuned
[09:47:20] <R2E4> If I unhook the inputs it wanders slowly
[09:47:35] <JT-Shop> yea, they are analog drives with tuning pots and electrical components change over time IIRC
[09:47:43] <JT-Shop> then centering is off
[09:48:28] <skunkworks> with it hooked up - it vibrates?
[09:49:02] <R2E4> IT vibrates when I connect a battery to it.
[09:49:38] <R2E4> pcw said to get it working with a 1.5v battery before going further. So when I put a battery on it the whole world shook.
[09:50:19] <R2E4> I have also to put shielded cable, which might introduce issues also. So I will do that this afternoon.
[09:50:46] <R2E4> with it hooked up it dont vibrate but goes really slow.
[09:51:17] <JT-Shop> do you have a centering pot?
[09:51:35] <R2E4> VR1 for zero adjustme4nt
[09:52:45] <JT-Shop> before I moved mine I made a picture of the positions of any pots or rotary switches on my drive
[09:53:00] <JT-Shop> so if I made it worse I could put it back
[09:53:12] <R2E4> I havent turned anything. Thats a good idea.
[09:54:35] <R2E4> IT would help tremendously if I had a manual. Jeez..... ITs allmost impossible for that manual to not be online.
[10:04:21] <skunkworks> if they are multi-turn pots.. a picture doesn't help...
[10:06:21] <JT-Shop> good point
[10:07:13] <R2E4> I can write down how much I turn each one, and get it back to where it was before I touched it.
[10:07:43] <R2E4> Thats not the issue, without the manual, I dont knopw how to tune it. the manual is nop where to be found.
[10:08:45] <JT-Shop> you might ask on the zone about that drive, there are some very knowledgeable folks on there if you can wade past all the commericals
[10:10:58] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn,
http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/subroutine-library/27513-polar-spiral#43918
[10:11:21] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, and example using polar, G92, incremental and named variables to cut a counter bore pocket.
[10:31:15] <pcw_home> R2E4: I would not tune the drives as they should be close to right already
[10:33:19] <R2E4> pcw_home: When I put the battery on last night they vibrated like crazy, and was told to adjust it on the amp.
[10:33:32] <pcw_home> Ahh i missed that
[10:34:08] <R2E4> This document has some info.
http://irmtl.com/vm40/BL-man.pdf
[10:35:17] <R2E4> I dont have shielded cable, so as the documents state, it could be inductive noise? How possible is that scenario?
[10:35:30] <skunkworks> how did you hook the battery in?
[10:36:04] <R2E4> disconnected the Vcmd and Vgnd from the 7i77 and put it on the wires going to the amp.
[10:36:25] <R2E4> and then there was the earthqualke.
[10:36:33] <skunkworks> and the wires going to the amp are un-shilded?
[10:37:02] <R2E4> correct.
[10:37:11] <skunkworks> that needs to be fixed
[10:37:18] <pcw_home> well there should be an abrupt acceleration to ~15% of full speed
[10:37:25] <R2E4> yes, I am going to do that this afternoon.
[10:37:55] <pcw_home> and maybe some ringing but it should die down
[10:38:30] <pcw_home> if not, either the gain is too high or possibly you have tachometer issues
[10:38:36] <R2E4> it just vibrated real bad and moved slowly. I assume that it was trying to correct errors
[10:39:36] <pcw_home> does sound like the gain is too high
[10:39:47] <Jymmm> or its drunk and going into DT's
[10:40:25] <R2E4> IS it as simple as just turning down the loop[ gain pots? VR3 and VR6? Then test with battery?
[10:40:54] <pcw_home> you dont need the battery for this (just short the inputs)
[10:41:43] <R2E4> so ground the input and adjust for?
[10:41:56] <pcw_home> no vibration
[10:42:37] <R2E4> When I ground the input, why would it vibrate if it is at 0 volts?
[10:43:00] <R2E4> it onl;y vibrated when I tested with battery input.
[10:43:39] <pcw_home> 1.5V or 0V does not affect the loop gain
[10:43:55] <pcw_home> (but a open input may)
[10:44:29] <pcw_home> do you have a series resistor on the battery?
[10:44:41] <R2E4> no
[10:45:29] <pcw_home> ok so 0V should be the same (though no transient so it might not start oscillating)
[10:46:39] <pcw_home> the oscillation should be independent of the voltage (but may not happen if the input is open)
[10:48:33] <R2E4> I'm confused, then why would it not do it when I have the 7i77 connected to it?
[10:49:17] <R2E4> The transients is the only thing I can see that is the difference, troublemaker or whatever.
[10:53:22] <pcw_home> It might the sudden step (but it should be stable in any case)
[10:54:08] <R2E4> I remove it right away when it starts vibrating.
[10:59:25] <pcw_home> if its not an issue with the 7I77 you may be able to live with the current drive settings proceed to tuning via linuxcnc
[10:59:26] <pcw_home> but you probably dont wany a stutation where any kind of input transient starts continuous oscillations
[11:00:24] <R2E4> I will fix the cable shield issue, so that should not be the problem.
[11:01:49] <R2E4> There were issues that pointed you guys towards fixing the external issue first.
[11:03:36] <Connor> join #svn
[11:06:48] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Sorry man I got a bonfire going out back burning some old wood and boxes.. I will check out that link.
[11:09:01] <R2E4> Do they make new servo drives that would work with these old AC servo's? I would think so.
[11:09:11] <R2E4> Probably real expensive.
[11:11:11] <cradek> don't you have NC400s?
[11:11:30] <R2E4> Those are on my bridgeport.
[11:11:34] <PetefromTn> I bought my drives from Machmotion they are the TEco brand but they also sell more upscale brands. I bought my motors and drivers as a package setup to work with each other as well as some premade cabling.
[11:12:18] <cradek> oh, I guess you're talking about a second machine
[11:12:23] <cradek> your name confused me
[11:12:28] <R2E4> yes.
[11:12:48] <PetefromTn> I also sold my entire electronics package from the machine to another fellow so he could have backups for a handsome price that mostly paid for all the new stuff.
[11:13:18] <R2E4> That could be a viable option.
[11:14:50] <PetefromTn> From the sounds of your motors tho you are probably looking at considerably higher cost motors than what I have. Do you know the power and torque specs on them?
[11:15:07] <PetefromTn> Honestly right now if you can get the original motors and drivers working you might be better off...
[11:15:39] <PetefromTn> Connor: Hey man..
[11:15:44] <Connor> hey
[11:18:06] <R2E4> THis is the exact z axis motor
[11:18:08] <R2E4> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANYO-DENKI-SERVO-MOTOR-MODEL-20BM220MBP41-SUMTAK-OPTCPDER-/380813883476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58aa46b854
[11:18:24] <PetefromTn> I heard back from that fellow who did the Wj200 modbus stuff. He sent me an email just now. Apparently he was unable to get the drive into master but he has it on another site here...
https://github.com/OKComputers/linuxcnc-mirror/tree/wj200_vfd
[11:19:14] <JT-Shop> I think there is a wiki section for user contributed components
[11:19:32] <PetefromTn> Damn that is a big motor...LOL
[11:20:04] <PetefromTn> Mine are over a foot long but those are 21" hehe...
[11:20:44] <PetefromTn> Apparently he was told they were gonna put it in master or something and it never happened so he just put it on a site and has not pursued it further.
[11:21:31] <PetefromTn> R2E4: that is a cheap price for a motor like that tho.
[11:22:02] <R2E4> yeah, dont think I need motors.
[11:22:17] <Connor> PetefromTn: Hmm.. Then we'll have to talk with cradek on how to build this module for you.. something I've never really done..
[11:22:29] <PetefromTn> Oh shit..
[11:22:48] <PetefromTn> R2E4: Yeah man I know just saying those prices are quite reasonable.
[11:23:10] <R2E4> some are 1800 and 2000, same motors.
[11:23:26] <PetefromTn> yeah commercial motors and drives are NUTZ.
[11:23:46] <PetefromTn> I got my motor, driver, and cabling from Machmotion for under a Grand per axis...
[11:24:01] <R2E4> the paperwork that came with the machine said the big ZZ axis motor is 2.5hp and the Y and x are 1.75
[11:24:33] <PetefromTn> Yeah man if they are even trying to work I would do what I could to use them until you cannot then look into other options.
[11:24:34] <R2E4> ooh..... thats not bad, brand new no headaches...... I wish...
[11:24:54] <PetefromTn> yeah that is why I did that. No worries...
[11:25:08] <PetefromTn> So far it has been a great decision but your mileage may vary LOL..
[11:25:15] <R2E4> Max z axis thrust force is 1600 lbs.....
[11:25:38] <PetefromTn> Dunno what mine is, is your Z counterweighted?
[11:26:20] <R2E4> no, I dont think so.
[11:26:27] <R2E4> I see no signs of it.
[11:27:05] <PetefromTn> that is why that Z is so big then like my machine.
[11:27:18] <R2E4> I'm pretty sure they will work, just getting them tuned properly is the issue.
[11:27:42] <PetefromTn> Oh they will obviously work they did before right. What exactly was wrong with the machine when you got it?
[11:28:25] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, the squeaky wheel gets the grease...
[11:28:33] <Connor> cradek: You around ?
[11:28:44] <R2E4> Yeah, I have a friend that saw it working before they shut it down. Thats why I bought it. Powered it up and it didnt work. The seicos contol; and plc was kap[ut...
[11:29:35] <R2E4> And those boards they charge lots for, cause people are in need of them, they up the price.
[11:29:50] <Connor> PetefromTn: The component file:
https://github.com/OKComputers/linuxcnc-mirror/blob/wj200_vfd/src/hal/user_comps/wj200_vfd/wj200_vfd.comp
[11:32:32] <zeeshan> man
[11:32:40] <zeeshan> last night i spent a couple hours fixing up the code for that mvx9000 vfd modbus
[11:32:48] <zeeshan> that code on the linuxcnc website is all faulty
[11:32:56] <zeeshan> the make file is busted too
[11:33:26] <zeeshan> is kirk wallace in this channel by any chance? :d
[11:34:26] <archivist> next door in #linuxcnc-devel
[11:34:30] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: have you been talking to kirk wallace?
[11:34:41] <zeeshan> whats his username? :P
[11:35:12] <archivist> you need a clue!
[11:35:27] <zeeshan> yes
[11:35:52] <archivist> looked at the user list yet :)
[11:35:59] <pcw_home> If all axis worked, the drives are probably OK and tuning is something you always have to do
[11:36:10] <zeeshan> dun dun dun
[11:36:11] <zeeshan> i see him
[11:36:12] <zeeshan> ;p
[11:50:30] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Always man ALWAYS!!
[11:50:55] <PetefromTn> Connor: Dunno what the hell that is... LOL
[11:51:09] <PetefromTn> zeeshan: Who's Kirk Wallace?
[11:51:42] <jthornton> a guy from Cali, at least I think he is from Cali
[11:52:13] <PetefromTn> You mean Pete??
[11:52:56] <jthornton> Kirk
[11:53:07] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: the developer for your drives's stuff
[11:53:09] <PetefromTn> Don't think I know Kirk Wallace sorry..
[11:53:11] <zeeshan> and mine too
[11:53:23] <zeeshan> i've been compiling the vfd stuff last night
[11:53:33] <PetefromTn> You mean Curtis Dutton
[11:53:36] <PetefromTn> ?
[11:53:49] <zeeshan> i got it to work software side. but i need to test it with the vfd now (still waiting on my rs232 to rs485 converter)
[11:54:03] <PetefromTn> GET ER DONE MAN!!
[11:54:09] <zeeshan> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/sj200rtu/
[11:54:12] <zeeshan> didnt you get your files from there?
[11:54:12] <PetefromTn> You do it means I can do it LOL...
[11:54:43] <PetefromTn> https://github.com/OKComputers/linuxcnc-mirror/tree/wj200_vfd
[11:55:11] <zeeshan> thats more fancy code
[11:55:29] <PetefromTn> I am trying to crate up this tubing bender I sold right now It has gotta get shipped out today.
[11:55:43] <zeeshan> jd^2 bender? :p
[11:55:44] <jthornton> git to work then
[11:55:46] <PetefromTn> Connor: DOes that make any sense to you?
[11:56:05] <zeeshan> i have this entire week off
[11:56:10] <PetefromTn> No it is a Gottrikes I built that I have not had time or money to put into dies etc...
[11:56:12] <zeeshan> so i'm going to eat your brains out mates!!
[11:56:14] <zeeshan> muahoheaoheaoa.
[11:56:21] <PetefromTn> Aw jeez...
[11:56:32] * jthornton goes to take a nap and will check on Pete's progress later
[11:56:44] <zeeshan> haha
[11:56:54] <Connor> trying to figure out how to pull the tree down from git..
[11:57:03] <Connor> so far.. I can only get the main mirror.
[11:57:05] <Connor> which is odd.
[11:57:06] <PetefromTn> Okay..
[11:57:25] <PetefromTn> jthornton: Okay man have a good nap.
[11:58:03] <PetefromTn> Sure wish I understood that geekspeak LOL...
[11:58:33] <PetefromTn> Goes right over my head.
[11:59:02] <PetefromTn> The damn small pallet I got for this thing is too short. LUckily I grabbed a fullsize one I can cut up.
[12:02:41] <Connor> pallet for what ?
[12:03:28] <PetefromTn> the bender I sold.
[12:05:29] <Connor> okay.. would someone with GIT please help me figure out how to grab this?
https://github.com/OKComputers/linuxcnc-mirror/tree/master/
[12:05:37] <Connor> get clone doesn't work..
[12:05:48] <Connor> and if I pull
https://github.com/OKComputers/linuxcnc-mirror it doesn't include the /tree/master
[12:06:22] <Loetmichel> *sweating like a waterfall*... how on earth did i get those heavyweight (30kg steel) 3,10m by 0,9m Shelf side racks into the tiny cellar a few years ago? I got ONE out of the cellar, up the stairs and onto the cars roof... and are totally exhausted... and 6 to follow... :-(
[12:06:32] <Loetmichel> ... btw does anyone know the maximum load of a Opel Omega B caravan roof? i hope the 7*30kg will not cave in the roof ;-)
[12:07:25] <zeeshan> wget -r -l 10 website ;p
[12:07:35] <Connor> zeeshan: Umm. no.
[12:07:59] <zeeshan> why not
[12:08:03] <zeeshan> rape the entire website!
[12:08:22] <Connor> Not needed.. git will do it.. I just don't use git enough to know how.
[12:10:21] <PetefromTn> Not sounding good man LOL..
[12:20:27] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:20:36] <IchGuckLive> zeeshan: and did your estop work
[12:20:40] <zeeshan> yes
[12:20:44] <zeeshan> connor made it really simple for me
[12:20:48] <zeeshan> my wiring was messed up
[12:21:00] <IchGuckLive> ah ;-)
[12:22:05] <skunkworks_> Loetmichel, also depends on how big of a bump you drive over...
[12:22:15] <jdh> connor: did you model the stepper covers in 3d and then slice or just draw each piece?
[12:23:15] <Connor> Honestly.. Just modeled the base and then CAMed the remaining..
[12:26:54] <Connor> jdh: Why ?
[12:27:32] <jdh> I want to make a part in three pieces. Bottom part is round, goes over a tube. Middle section houses a 50mm fan, top section is a fan cover and hole for power plug
[12:27:57] <jdh> the fan should be recessed between the bottom and middle parts.
[12:28:54] <Connor> Basicly.. I i milled the bottom part.. then while still in the mill glued on the next part on top.. then milled it, then glued on the next part and milled again.
[12:29:13] <Loetmichel> skunkworks: hopefully: none, german streets.
[12:29:22] <Loetmichel> and only 12km to the company ;-)
[12:30:43] <jdh> Connor: Mine will have to be milled on the 'inside' of two of the parts.
[12:31:16] <Connor> would stacking not allow you to achieve that .?
[12:31:21] <jdh> I was hoping I could make a 3d model then slice it in thirds and generate profiles from that.
[12:31:40] <jdh> no, the top part has to be flipped. The part will be hollow
[12:32:13] <Connor> would have to see it to understand I guess
[12:32:16] <jdh> I could probably carve it by hand with a chisel faster than I can make a model.
[12:32:41] <jdh> yeah. It's mostly just an enclosed fan sitting on a tube
[12:32:51] <zeeshan> any of you guys install xdrp with sucess?
[12:32:55] <jdh> with a DC coax power connector
[12:33:39] <Connor> got a picture of one already made? or just a rough scketch ?
[12:33:58] <jdh> nope.. just on a notepad at home.
[12:35:20] <jdh> 56mm OD tube, sticks out 17mm. I want to make an enclosure with a 50mm fan that sits on top of it. With vents for the fan and a hole for a power connector
[12:37:11] <Connor> The whole reason for laminating at each step was so I could make connector housing enclosed.. No way to do it on 3 axis machine otherwise..
[12:38:42] <jdh> I can make these 3 parts in 2.5d. I was just hoping to automate it.
[12:39:27] <Connor> yea.. Probably more trouble than it's worth..
[12:39:45] <Connor> ls
[12:40:07] <jdh> I can probably make it in just 2 pieces
[12:40:41] <Connor> PetefromTn: Okay, I have the branch now, with the component..
[12:53:46] <PetefromTn> Connor: Sweet.
[13:04:13] <PetefromTn> I can't find the damn license file for the bender plans anywhere what a moron..DAmn.
[13:11:34] <zeeshan> finally got this remote session working
[13:11:44] <zeeshan> just needed xrdp and vino installed together so i could remote into my existing session
[13:12:43] <marmite> hmm still havent decided on how i will go on my spindle dilemma
[13:14:20] <IchGuckLive> marmite: best is to go the easy way
[13:20:10] <FinboySlick> For the electricla heads out there: I'd need a clamp meter that can accurately measure up to maybe 5amp dc. Most of the process clamp meters that I found are targetted at 4-20mA signals and appear to cap at 100mA.
[13:20:31] <FinboySlick> The larger ones just aren't too accurate on the smaller range. Got suggestions?
[13:22:18] <pcw_home> accurate meaning 5% 1% .001% ?
[13:22:34] <FinboySlick> 1% should be fine.
[13:22:52] <JT-Shop> my Fluke 75 has both 10a and 300ma
[13:24:08] <jdh> mine has 400mA and 10A (Fluke 189)
[13:24:47] <jdh> and a 440mA fuse that isn't so easy to source quickly.
[13:24:49] <JT-Shop> mine must be really old at 114 model numbers behind jdh
[13:26:06] <pcw_home> its probably hard to get 1% with a Hall effect clamp on ampmeter
[13:26:31] <pcw_home> a flux balance meter will do this but $$
[13:26:33] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: It's wishful thinking. I guess 5% would be fine
[13:26:48] <FinboySlick> What's typical accuracy in the 10A range?
[13:27:23] <pcw_home> I think 5% is typical
[13:27:49] <FinboySlick> Most of what I plan to measure will be below 2A, more likely around 500mA.
[13:29:39] <pcw_home> best way to get a wide range is wind more turns if measuring low current
[13:30:26] <FinboySlick> As in doing a few loops around the clamp?
[13:30:40] * FinboySlick doesn't know much about that sort of thing.
[13:33:40] <pcw_home> yeah multiplys the sensitivity by number of turns
[13:34:41] <FinboySlick> It would multiply the sensitivity but would it also multiply the measurement?
[13:34:54] <pcw_home> (since the Hall device itself is a single range device you get best accuracy at full or close to full flux)
[13:35:22] <pcw_home> sure if you have a 10A full scale range it becomes 1A full scale with 10 turns
[13:35:49] <FinboySlick> OK.
[13:36:17] <FinboySlick> Thanks :)
[14:08:48] <quitte> hmm. is rtai not just better with respect to latency but also way more efficient? in the ubuntu live cd the gui looks good and the virtual machine movements match the real machine movements. with debian and preempt_rt even with nvidia drivers the gui just can't keep up with reality
[14:20:32] <FinboySlick> quitte: I wouldn't bet that it's entirely related to rtai vs preempt_rt.
[14:21:20] <CaptHindsight> no problems with preept_rt and AMD APU boards
[14:22:10] <CaptHindsight> I can play HD video and control motors at the same time
[14:22:20] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Found any drawback to the AMD boards yet? Video drivers or stuff of that nature?
[14:23:04] <FinboySlick> My little atom is dated and I must say that the A10 I tried a while back (as a pc, not linuxcnc) impressed me quite a bit.
[14:23:23] <CaptHindsight> nope, haven't had video driver issues in years with AMD
[14:23:36] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Using proprietary or open source?
[14:23:54] <CaptHindsight> open
[14:24:30] <FinboySlick> And you typically use A10 or the earlier A8?
[14:25:34] <CaptHindsight> even the first gen asrock e350m1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157228
[14:26:04] <CaptHindsight> and with AMD Mantle you can create video games that don't need directX
[14:26:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/mantle/Pages/mantle.aspx
[14:27:08] <CaptHindsight> we might have simulation in HD with linuxcnc some day
[14:29:27] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: we get ~42uS with preemept_rt and ~8uS with RTAI on that board and just about all the AMD boards in the last 5 years
[14:30:18] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: I might spoil myself a tad later this year.
[14:30:41] <FinboySlick> 8us and I have a mesa board now ;) That should give me very smooth movement.
[14:30:51] <quitte> CaptHindsight: do you have a debian system that you are willing to use for building a live image?
[14:31:34] <CaptHindsight> quitte: we have the asrock board that we're going to put debian on, just been too busy
[14:32:03] <CaptHindsight> we have Ubuntu 10.04 and 12.04 on it so far
[14:33:23] <CaptHindsight> memleak is working on RTAI for ARM currently
[14:33:39] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Say hi for me.
[14:34:16] <quitte> CaptHindsight: with the internet connection I'm on I don't think I can reasonably push an iso out. can I ask you in the coming days to give it a try once I stored it in a more accessible place?
[14:35:17] <CaptHindsight> the distro iso's and toolchains were a mess for the cubieboard (allwinner a20)
[14:35:46] <CaptHindsight> quitte: are you looking for testers for your build?
[14:36:11] <quitte> CaptHindsight: pretty much specifically for you, since you know how preempt_rt is supposed to feel
[14:37:04] <quitte> I know for sure that on this P4 ubuntu RTAI feels _way_ better than preempt_rt
[14:37:10] <CaptHindsight> I can't say that we'll have any time. When we add Debian it will be from Debian so we can follow what's happening and be able to fix it.
[14:37:18] <quitte> on an A10 that is probably a different story
[14:37:35] <CaptHindsight> but you can just post your kernel config
[14:38:14] <quitte> The kernel config i exactly the wheezy rt-686-pae kernel with no changes except aufs enabled
[14:38:42] <CaptHindsight> what's the max jitter with it?
[14:39:37] <quitte> somewhat above 100us normally. max I've seen 160 or something?
[14:40:51] <quitte> I should check the network configuration - that used to cause horrible slowdowns in the ui
[14:47:08] <CaptHindsight> as more devs work with RTAI it won't be such a risk to plan on using it in the future
[14:47:57] <CaptHindsight> a very big generic preempt_rt kernel might not get much better performance than what you're getting
[14:48:33] <CaptHindsight> then again we get 80uS on the cubieboard2
[14:48:37] <Loetmichel> hmmm... i dont know if that is a good idea to put 7 of these 30kg racks on the cars roof. maybe i should clean up the trunk and fold the rear seats. will still be a meter longer than the car but at leeast the trunk has trustworthy fixing points for the ratchet straps ... ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14691
[14:49:26] <CaptHindsight> so maybe 40-80uS for preempt_rt and <10uS for RTAI with generic kernels
[14:49:38] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: and not as top heavy
[14:49:59] <quitte> CaptHindsight: the latency doesn't worry me much. but the user interface with the ubuntu live cd works just so much better...
[14:50:23] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: more important: not 210% of the allowed load on the roof ;-)
[14:51:01] <quitte> I guess I'll have to figure out a way to get a rtai kernel that works with wheezy from somewhere to figure out if preempt_rt vs rtai actually is the issue
[14:51:13] <CaptHindsight> quitte: sounds like you just need the gpu drivers setup correctly, but they don't make it easy to follow
[14:51:59] <quitte> glxinfo is looking good, both with nouveau and nvidia
[14:52:34] <gene78> does anybody know where I can get a good selection of small timing belt pulleys made ok al or steel?
[14:53:30] <quitte> CaptHindsight: could ubc3 have some debugging enabled that I should have disabled?
[14:53:31] <gene78> I just had a tesion failure and burned up the black plastic version
[14:53:48] <gene78> does anybody know where I can get a good selection of small timing belt pulleys made of al or steel?
[14:53:57] <CaptHindsight> I don't feel any difference between RTAI and preempt_rt
[14:54:06] <CaptHindsight> we just set the base periods higher for preempt
[14:55:29] <quitte> CaptHindsight: for me the cone representing the tool is taking long breaks and then umping to the current position in debian, while in ubuntu it's always moving smoothly. changing the 3d perspective is no fun, either
[14:55:33] <CaptHindsight> gene78: maybe
https://sdp-si.com/eStore/CoverPg/Drive_Components.htm
[15:02:46] <quitte> CaptHindsight: another major difference might be the number of cores. Let me hook up the AMD64X2 and see how it behaves....
[15:04:02] <PetefromTn> Well I managed to find the damn file unlock code for the bender plans finally....Sheesh I hate when I put something somewhere and then cannot remember where the hell I put it.
[15:09:47] <gene78> that looks ok, but its more teeth, meaning longer belt, And I'll have to dismantle the rear of the head on this 7x12 to access that. Thanks, thierv prices look about normal.
[15:10:09] <CaptHindsight> quitte: works fine with 1 or 2 cores, usually one for emc and the other for everything else
[15:13:53] <quitte> CaptHindsight: I just tried the exact same live system on an AMD64X2 and all my complaints don't apply. everything is as it should be. max jitter 30us
[15:16:53] <quitte> still I can't rule out that it's something else but the difference between RTAI and preempt_rt that makes the P4 look so incredibly bad.
[15:22:43] <CaptHindsight> I'm running 10.04 with emc2.5 on a PhenomII 785 MB, RTAI is ~8uS
[15:23:25] <CaptHindsight> with super tweaked RTAI kernel and Gentoo it's ~5uS
[15:24:05] <quitte> do you have a single core machine to try preempt_rt on?
[15:36:22] <CaptHindsight> you can turn cores off in BIOS
[15:38:03] * JT-Shop was lucky today nothing is worn out in the idler, the bushings are a good fit
[15:44:10] <quitte> unfortunately not with that bios
[15:45:07] <PetefromTn> LMAO.....
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/sks/4332129995.html
[15:45:54] <os1r1s> PetefromTn: You should call and see if he cleans pools as well
[15:46:25] <PetefromTn> Yeah man I mean he is Conscious right he can do most anything LOL...
[15:46:40] <JT-Shop> seems to be a multi-tasker
[15:47:05] * JT-Shop just sold the RPC out of the CHNC
[15:47:26] <PetefromTn> Does that mean I can have the CHNC?
[15:49:24] <JT-Shop> uh yea sure bring cash
[15:50:38] <PetefromTn> Oh now we got cash involved LOL..
[15:50:51] <PetefromTn> http://terrehaute.craigslist.org/tls/4278308199.html
[15:53:36] <nlancaster> anyone ever have whipping problems with a 5start 1/2inch acme in dumpser cnc antibacklash nuts?
[15:53:51] <nlancaster> i get above about 80-100ipm in my joescnc2006 and the gantry starts vibrating
[15:53:58] <nlancaster> i can move reliably at upto 250ipm
[15:54:28] <JT-Shop> that's pretty fast for acme
[15:54:46] <nlancaster> 16m/steps 425oz keling steppers
[15:56:35] <nlancaster> cutting at 100-120ipm is fast?
[15:59:47] <os1r1s> nlancaster: Depending on the size of the mill, yes.
[16:00:44] <PetefromTn> Maybe switch to chain drive?
[16:02:44] <nlancaster> 24x48 inch
[16:17:44] <Deejay> gn8
[16:40:55] <JT-Shop> yuck, the main contactor on the RPC board doesn't have aux contacts... JT ponders how to make a latching circuit
[16:43:38] <DaViruz> a paralell relay?
[16:45:32] <JT-Shop> looking to see what I have on hand
[16:49:10] <zeeshan> my main contactor is expandable
[16:49:17] <zeeshan> you can attach aux contacts on each side of it
[16:49:29] <zeeshan> maybe you can too? :p
[16:53:52] <JT-Shop> no, this is a definite purpose contactor like used in HVAC and stuff
[16:57:23] <zeeshan> about to install the linuxcnc live cd on my mill controller box
[16:57:23] <zeeshan> ;D
[17:04:31] * JT-Shop feels a little redneck using a wall switch...
[17:04:50] <Connor> JT-Shop: What are you trying to do ?
[17:05:06] <nlancaster> use what works right?
[17:09:17] <JT-Shop> yea, same difference
[17:10:10] <JT-Shop> Connor, I sold the RPC out of my CHNC and I was using a 24vdc relay to pull in the contactor... no aux contacts so time for plan B
[17:10:31] <JT-Shop> instead of start/stop buttons we now have a switch
[17:10:34] <JT-Shop> same effect
[17:10:58] <rob_h> when turn lights on.. machins can startup too ;)
[17:11:03] <Connor> RPC ?
[17:11:09] <Connor> Why you sell that ?
[17:14:26] <PetefromTn> I don't miss my RPC that is for sure...
[17:18:38] <JT-Shop> I don't need 4 RPC's
[17:19:02] <JT-Shop> I have a sweet 20hp powering my whole shop now
[17:19:03] <Connor> First off.. what is a RPC in this context ?
[17:19:14] <JT-Shop> Rotary Phase Converter
[17:19:21] <Connor> okay.
[17:20:29] <PetefromTn> I sold my 20 HP RPC and now the entire machine and shop is single phase.
[17:21:11] <JT-Shop> not an option for the 308
[17:22:16] <PetefromTn> why?
[17:23:20] <Tom_itx> because it probably has a 3phase transformer in it
[17:23:34] <JT-Shop> I'd have to replace all the drives and servos
[17:23:51] <JT-Shop> same for the CHNC and the Samson
[17:24:05] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop when you gonna start another conversion?
[17:24:07] <PetefromTn> yeah I see.
[17:24:23] <PetefromTn> What kinda parts do you make on your CHNC?
[17:24:47] <JT-Shop> when I get the crawler done, the spindle motor on the BP knee mill changed, the siding on the shop...
[17:24:53] <JT-Shop> it's on the list somewhere
[17:25:14] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, I design and build automation equipment and make the parts for my machines
[17:25:22] <Tom_itx> what's wrong with the crawler? idlers?
[17:25:55] <PetefromTn> automation equipment interesting.
[17:41:45] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, last one put the right front idler shaft in backwards... not possible to grease it that way. Good thing I checked the bushings were gone but no damage to shaft or idler
[17:42:00] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, yes it is very interesting work
[17:43:12] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop several companies or one main one?
[17:44:03] <Tom_itx> my friend used to make custom presses etc for cutting stencils and laminating signage
[17:44:18] <Tom_itx> made the press for the old firebird decal
[17:45:22] <JT-Shop> most of the time I make machines for Briggs and Stratton
[17:46:16] <Tom_itx> cutters for diapers, cutters for hook and loop sandpaper etc
[17:47:05] <Tom_itx> wound up with some of the sandpaper... they sent him a whole semi full for testing
[17:47:58] <JT-Shop> yea, I get engines to test with and they don't want them back
[17:48:01] <Tom_itx> did some stuff for the flexible circuitboards under the dash
[17:49:37] <Tom_itx> not sure who's running that business now... same age as me, he went to sleep one night and never woke up
[17:49:44] <Tom_itx> several years back
[17:50:41] <Tom_itx> are those idlers spring loaded or hydraulic on that little thing?
[17:50:59] <JT-Shop> yes
[17:51:05] <Tom_itx> heh
[17:51:08] <JT-Shop> both
[17:51:49] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/JD350B/350b02s.jpg
[17:52:16] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/JD350B/350-06.jpg
[17:52:35] <PetefromTn> Sounds like good work I hope to find something like that to do with the VMC here along with my own projects.
[17:52:36] <JT-Shop> you can see the hydraulic adjuster and the spring on the last photo
[17:52:59] <JT-Shop> work has been spotty lately from Briggs
[17:53:26] <Tom_itx> this guy did alot for 3M
[17:55:31] <PetefromTn> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4337995835.html Looks like a fun restore job.
[17:55:33] <Tom_itx> similar type of work but mostly with cutting presses etc
[17:56:18] <Tom_itx> kinda short
[17:56:58] <zeeshan> 375#
[17:56:59] <zeeshan> good deal.
[17:57:12] <zeeshan> needs some TLC
[17:57:37] <zeeshan> eek
[17:57:39] <zeeshan> ways are rusted
[17:57:47] <Tom_itx> whole thing is rusted
[17:57:56] <zeeshan> well the only thing that matters is the ways ;[
[17:58:01] <Tom_itx> TN that's why
[17:58:13] <zeeshan> why wouldnt they lube the ways
[17:58:15] <zeeshan> before storing it
[17:58:26] <zeeshan> whenever i store anything metal , i spray a shitload of oil everywhere
[17:58:47] <zeeshan> i learrned the hard way, i stored a bunch of v-belt pulleys in a metal shed
[17:58:52] <PetefromTn> Honestly it does not look all that bad and cheap too.
[17:58:53] <zeeshan> after 5 months of summer, they were all rusted to shit.
[17:59:10] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: its not bad
[17:59:17] <zeeshan> if it was local to me, i'd pick thatup.
[18:00:01] <PetefromTn> Honestly when I had my old shop my current lathe would look like that if I did not use it for a week just from condensation surface rusting it. It looks real nice and new when I clean it up now.
[18:00:16] <zeeshan> even when you lube her up?
[18:00:24] <PetefromTn> Is that a heavy ten?
[18:00:59] <zeeshan> heavy ten?
[18:01:03] <PetefromTn> I usually wipe way oil over the exposed metal parts but it got so humid in that building it was in it really did not matter after awhile.
[18:01:17] <PetefromTn> Yeah Southbend Heavy 10
[18:02:05] <zeeshan> looks like it
[18:02:10] <zeeshan> looks like mr pete's lathe
[18:02:10] <zeeshan> ;p
[18:02:13] <PetefromTn> https://www.google.com/search?q=southbend+heavy+10&client=firefox-a&hs=WWZ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=7J4CU9X2L6iCyQGt6oDIBg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1365&bih=678#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=DJ9oNscoTkrsyM%253A%3Bw4rRueOcx9w3cM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.practicalmachinist.com%252Fvb%252Fattachments%252Ff12%252F43074d1327336411-south-bend-heavy-10-sale-img_0661.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.
[18:02:13] <PetefromTn> practicalmachinist.com%252Fvb%252Fmachinery-sale-wanted%252Fsouth-bend-heavy-10-sale-239773%252F%3B1074%3B806
[18:03:02] <PetefromTn> Hell I would take it. I want a nice clean used slantbed CNC lathe with a blown control tho more. I am gonna sell my 12x36 here at some point to help me get one.
[18:03:15] <zeeshan> whicvh 12x36 do you have
[18:03:55] <PetefromTn> just your typical asian model but it is a real nice machine. have had it for a VERY LONG time and it works well.
[18:04:05] <zeeshan> why would you get rid of it :P
[18:04:18] <zeeshan> i mean if you replace it with a hardinge slantbed lathe
[18:04:18] <nlancaster> to get something better :D
[18:04:20] <zeeshan> i understand
[18:04:21] <zeeshan> :)
[18:04:22] <PetefromTn> because it is not a CNC slant bed commercial lathe..
[18:05:03] <PetefromTn> Was considering a hardinge, another Cincinatti, A Mori SL model or something similar for cheap.
[18:06:24] <PetefromTn> I wish I had a dime for every hour I spent turning parts on this machine tho. It works really good. I have considered retrofitting it but I really want the toolchanger setup and slant bed.
[18:06:39] <zeeshan> tool changer is easy on the 12x36
[18:06:45] <zeeshan> you just make your own cross-slide
[18:06:56] <zeeshan> with a stepper to rotate it
[18:07:07] <zeeshan> you have a vmc, you can make parts for it easily.
[18:07:29] <zeeshan> but from the sounds of it, you need a production machine
[18:07:31] <Stratrascal> does anyone know of a good golassary of CNC terms. I just need a simple explanation of Feed Plane, There are lots of discussions about it but no explantation of what it is
[18:07:32] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, that's my problem too... not earning a dime for a hours work
[18:07:33] <zeeshan> so a slant bed is the only way to go ;p
[18:07:52] <zeeshan> Stratrascal: its the plane you feed in!
[18:07:53] <JT-Shop> never seen a discussion on Feed Plane
[18:07:53] <zeeshan> lol
[18:08:28] <Tom_itx> find jobs you can make more than one of
[18:08:37] <Stratrascal> :) that is the problem with Lots of tutorials, Not just CNC they assume too much
[18:08:47] <zeeshan> cars === $$$$$$$
[18:09:01] <zeeshan> any side job i've done for cars i've made quite a bit of $
[18:09:05] <Stratrascal> So What is it?
[18:09:38] <PetefromTn> Stratrascal: The feed plane is the coordinate system that you are miilling off of either XY, Xz, etc... Mostly using XY for milling.
[18:09:51] <Tom_itx> i would assume G17 18 or 19
[18:10:02] <nlancaster> Tom_itx, do you like ITX comptuer hardware?
[18:10:16] <Tom_itx> this one is ok but it's mighty old
[18:10:23] <Stratrascal> Ok so it's like the level that it is cutting at?
[18:10:32] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: I hear ya man. These parts I am making now are gonna make me some cash but getting there with a suitable working product I can repeat easily is the battle right now.
[18:10:33] <Tom_itx> no it's the plane it's cutting in
[18:12:02] <Stratrascal> In other words what do I put in for a variable Default is 2.5
[18:12:07] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: it is finding those parts folks want to pay for that has been the challenge, I would LOVE to make a bunch of something I can machine and do well with it.
[18:12:24] <Stratrascal> I am trying to figure out Bobcad
[18:12:25] <Tom_itx> that's where you make money with cncs
[18:12:49] <Tom_itx> Stratrascal G17 is the default XY work plane
[18:12:54] <nlancaster> I am hopeing to make money with custom cut aluminum side panels for computers.
[18:13:05] <nlancaster> here is my first one.
http://www.pdxmc.com/uploads/JoesCNC/sidepanel2.jpg
[18:13:06] <Stratrascal> Ok but my software is looking for a number
[18:13:11] <Tom_itx> G17
[18:13:27] <Stratrascal> default is 2.5 (it in MM)
[18:13:29] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G17-G18-G19
[18:15:59] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn, any local larger shops looking for offload?
[18:16:12] <Stratrascal> http://imgur.com/BfJPLtx how do I answer this question?
[18:17:16] <Tom_itx> how far above the part do you want the tool to go to clear clamps and material?
[18:17:36] <Stratrascal> I thought that was the clearence plane
[18:17:37] <Tom_itx> also known as Z clear or Z safe etc
[18:18:30] <Tom_itx> which question do you want answered?
[18:18:33] <Tom_itx> i didn't see one
[18:18:47] <Stratrascal> the feed plane
[18:18:51] <PetefromTn> IS that Bobcad?
[18:18:55] <Stratrascal> Yes
[18:19:08] * JT-Shop has two copies of BobCrap and still has nightmares over that
[18:19:32] <Stratrascal> I'm sure the default is Ok but I just want to understand what I am doing
[18:20:16] <JT-Shop> wow someone bought one of my Spyder accessories
[18:20:25] <nlancaster> spyder?
[18:20:40] <JT-Shop> Can Am Spyder
[18:20:42] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, cool
[18:20:48] <nlancaster> can we see?
[18:20:55] <Tom_itx> i've been wanting to ask how that's going
[18:21:27] <JT-Shop> slow, I assume to get more volume I need to be a "supporter" of SpyderLovers forum
[18:21:46] <PetefromTn> I get the same thing with Airgun parts..
[18:22:39] <Tom_itx> mine's down to a drip as well
[18:24:53] <tjtr33> Stratrascal, that dialog is asking the _height_ of the plane, not the axis that determine the plane
[18:25:27] <Stratrascal> I just found it. Feed Plane - is the height at which the tool movement changes from rapid feed rate to feed rate. This value is incremental from the toolpath
[18:26:05] <Tom_itx> silly
[18:27:44] <Stratrascal> See, I did not know if that was an important number or what. I wasted 1/2 hour just trying to find it. Not even you guys knew exactly what it was talking about. Friggin things needs a golassary
[18:28:01] <Tom_itx> non standard
[18:28:52] <Stratrascal> Yeah, so you would think they would let you know what they are taling about, especially if it is non standard. The more I deal with Bobcad the more frustrated I get.
[18:29:21] <zeeshan> interesting, in one of my classes
[18:29:21] <JT-Shop> Stratrascal, I feel your frustration
[18:29:28] <Tom_itx> 2x
[18:29:34] <Stratrascal> I am pretty green but that was a big selling point of the software. But what they really want is for you to spend thousands of dollars on training
[18:29:45] <zeeshan> we basically setup 3 spheres on a mill table and take a touch probe and record 5 points per sphere
[18:30:00] <zeeshan> do some matrix math and we end up with our origin location
[18:30:10] <JT-Shop> well the RPC is ready to go... now to connect the CHNC to the redneck grid
[18:30:21] <zeeshan> this could be a nice alternative to homing switches
[18:30:30] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you adding another one?
[18:30:30] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, did you see the spiral G code?
[18:30:37] <Tom_itx> i thought you had the 20hp one online
[18:30:39] <JT-Shop> RPC?
[18:30:59] <Tom_itx> i think we're talking about the same thing...
[18:31:01] <Tom_itx> yes
[18:31:02] <JT-Shop> I had a 10hp inside of the CHNC now it will run from the 20hp
[18:31:07] <Tom_itx> ahh ok
[18:31:22] <JT-Shop> as well as everything else that is 3-phase
[18:31:24] <Tom_itx> gee you got those things tucked away all over the shop
[18:31:34] <JT-Shop> yea, need to move them out
[18:31:51] <JT-Shop> I have another 10hp and a 15hp left to move
[18:32:18] <Tom_itx> maybe you should keep one for a backup
[18:32:56] <zeeshan> you dont get 3 phase at the shop? :[
[18:32:57] <Stratrascal> Well I'm back at these training vids, I am gonna figure it out no matter what!
[18:33:24] <Tom_itx> Stratrascal, on mine i set the Z clear where i want it to clear clamps etc, then it feeds from that point
[18:33:33] <Tom_itx> there is no option for all that other goop
[18:33:55] <Tom_itx> on a flat plate it could be .050" for z clear
[18:34:01] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, I'm about 2 miles from 3 phase
[18:34:23] <zeeshan> did you ever look into how much it'd cost to get the hydro company to run 3 phase to you?
[18:35:13] <zeeshan> i got quoted 2500$ to get 400A to my place.
[18:35:21] <JT-Shop> they wanted 3k to put a drop at our other shop and 3 phase is hanging on the pole about 50' away so no I've not bothered
[18:35:22] <zeeshan> since it's all underground
[18:35:35] <zeeshan> wow, thats expensive.
[18:35:59] <Tom_itx> isn't bobcam an add on for other cad software?
[18:36:09] <JT-Shop> unless you use enough to pay for the equipment then sock it to you
[18:36:23] <JT-Shop> one or 3 CNC machines don't use much
[18:36:44] <Tom_itx> yeah my friend had to show them he was gonna use 'plenty' before they brought it in his place
[18:37:04] <Tom_itx> then it took forever for them to sink the pole and mount the xfrmr
[18:37:12] <tjtr33> 3phase 230 or real 3 phase (400 440 480 500 etc )? not crazy leg 3 phase made with 2 cans on the pole
[18:37:42] <tjtr33> crazy leg varies too much at begin of each season'
[18:37:45] <zeeshan> highly doubt its 230v 3 phase
[18:37:49] <zeeshan> in usa its 400
[18:37:51] <zeeshan> 440~
[18:37:59] <zeeshan> in canada we get 575v
[18:38:49] <zeeshan> 480V usa
[18:39:34] <JT-Shop> real 3 phase can be 208, 220, 240, 480, and on up
[18:40:04] <Tom_itx> then when he built his new shop they wired it for 3phase from the get go and had charting meters on it for like a month to make sure it was smooth
[18:40:19] <Tom_itx> i don't know what voltage it was
[18:40:20] <tjtr33> i agree and do alot of work in windsor tecumseh oldcastle and they got 440 and 480
[18:40:28] <Tom_itx> they were huge pannels though
[18:40:52] <Tom_itx> with the big 'tray' conduit connecting them
[18:41:00] <zeeshan> i dont remember all the calculations
[18:41:07] <zeeshan> but i think thats mainly because its wye vs delta
[18:42:21] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/splitter/splitter-24.jpg
[18:43:35] <tjtr33> google 'crazy leg delta' to see what you can get when the power company wants to screw you
[18:44:15] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: you build that?
[18:44:20] <JT-Shop> one building I was in the neutral was hot LOL man that hurt
[18:44:27] <JT-Shop> yes, I'm building that
[18:44:31] <zeeshan> looks nice :)
[18:44:47] <JT-Shop> thanks, it's really starting to take shape
[18:44:56] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/splitter/
[18:45:25] <zeeshan> do you have a crane in your shop?
[18:45:30] <zeeshan> nm i see it in a pic.
[18:45:37] <zeeshan> that main column looks like its 200lb
[18:46:16] <zeeshan> 1 suggestion
[18:46:34] <zeeshan> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/splitter/splitter-24.jpg
[18:46:40] <zeeshan> are you putting end caps in the end of those tubing?
[18:46:41] <zeeshan> ;D
[18:47:02] <zeeshan> i made the mistake of not doing so on my bead roller frame and now it's rusted =/
[18:48:50] <zeeshan> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/splitter/frame-03.jpg
[18:48:53] <zeeshan> holy box of c-clamps
[18:48:58] <zeeshan> i need that many ;D
[18:49:25] <JT-Shop> you might say I have a crane...
http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/gantry/gantry.xhtml
[18:49:56] <zeeshan> haha
[18:49:57] <zeeshan> holy shit.
[18:50:03] <zeeshan> thats monsterous
[18:51:09] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/hoisting2.jpg
[18:51:19] <zeeshan> i had to use a damn engine hoist to flip this table.
[18:52:09] <JT-Shop> the chain hoists are 3 ton each
[18:52:28] <JT-Shop> did you see how I had to put the beam up on the gantry?
[18:52:43] <zeeshan> yea
[18:52:47] <zeeshan> looks like you used the engine hoist
[18:52:48] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/gantry/gantry-11.xhtml
[18:52:55] <zeeshan> ROFL
[18:53:18] <JT-Shop> I could not get the shackle pin out without lifting the rear of the cherry picker
[18:53:19] <Tom_itx> just tell him he can't do it
[18:53:30] <JT-Shop> ha, yea right
[18:53:56] <JT-Shop> more fun
http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308.xhtml
[18:54:19] <JT-Shop> how you move a VMC with a come-a-long and a long weekend
[18:54:19] <zeeshan> is that a mill
[18:54:29] <JT-Shop> yea, that's the VMC
[18:54:31] <zeeshan> fuck
[18:54:34] <zeeshan> they're that small?
[18:54:42] <zeeshan> how wide your are shop doors
[18:54:46] <zeeshan> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308-11.xhtml
[18:54:47] <zeeshan> in that pic
[18:55:22] <AR__> looks like a typical vmc
[18:55:25] <JT-Shop> that's a garage door and it is 9' wide I think
[18:55:28] <AR__> they do make them taller for more Z though
[18:55:34] <zeeshan> omg
[18:55:35] <Tom_itx> based on the entry door i'd say 9'
[18:55:38] <zeeshan> im definitely selling my mill.
[18:55:40] <JT-Shop> notice the top cover is off
[18:55:45] <zeeshan> and picking up something like that
[18:55:56] <Tom_itx> did you have to lay the z axis motor down?
[18:56:00] <AR__> ive never seen a bridgeport cnc vmc like that
[18:56:28] <JT-Shop> no, Z was all the way down and I just removed the cover you can see it on the right
[18:56:43] <zeeshan> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308-09.xhtml
[18:56:44] <zeeshan> ROFL
[18:56:50] <AR__> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308-08.xhtml
[18:56:52] <AR__> this looks safe
[18:56:53] <zeeshan> haha
[18:57:07] <AR__> LOL
[18:57:09] <AR__> omg
[18:57:11] <zeeshan> nice.
[18:57:23] <zeeshan> a man's gotta work with what he's got.
[18:57:37] <zeeshan> the fact that its gravel there woulda made it a bitch to move if you didnt have the wood.
[18:57:38] <JT-Shop> AR__, actually very safe
[18:57:44] <AR__> lol
[18:57:46] <AR__> if you sasy so
[18:57:48] <AR__> say*
[18:57:55] <zeeshan> AR__: looks fine to me too
[18:58:00] <zeeshan> the tilt angle isnt much
[18:58:07] <JT-Shop> the toe jack was a must have
[18:58:15] <AR__> yeah but man if something would have gave out
[18:58:30] <AR__> how much does that one weigh?
[18:58:31] <JT-Shop> not possible, see the blocking
[18:58:47] <JT-Shop> 5-6k lbs
[18:59:08] <nlancaster> that is a big machine
[18:59:21] <Tom_itx> that's a small cnc
[18:59:24] <AR__> how did you go from this
[18:59:25] <AR__> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308-10.xhtml
[18:59:33] <AR__> to this
[18:59:33] <AR__> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308-11.xhtml
[18:59:42] <AR__> jenga?
[18:59:48] <zeeshan> rofl jenga
[18:59:49] <zeeshan> hahaha
[19:00:04] <JT-Shop> toe jack
[19:00:14] <JT-Shop> take out one board at a time
[19:00:16] <zeeshan> thats exactly how i did mine
[19:00:18] <Tom_itx> same way you jack a house
[19:00:22] <AR__> jesus
[19:00:23] <JT-Shop> yep
[19:00:42] <zeeshan> https://www.google.ca/search?q=toe+jack&client=firefox-a&hs=jRa&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x6wCU5GlH6fXyAHr8oHwBw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1106
[19:00:48] <AR__> then did you just push it in or what
[19:00:48] <zeeshan> theyre very commonly used
[19:01:09] <JT-Shop> yea, I cheated and used my backhoe to push it in
[19:01:36] <JT-Shop> then months later I skated it across the garage to the 3rd bay with a 180 in mid travel
[19:01:43] <AR__> well tbh i probably wouldnt do it much different
[19:01:54] <JT-Shop> then out that door and a U turn to the shop door
[19:01:55] <zeeshan> pics of skates?
[19:02:19] <JT-Shop> northern tool 13,000 lb skates
[19:02:39] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zps53dbde14.jpg
[19:02:40] <zeeshan> i made those
[19:02:46] <zeeshan> 1hour of work 30$ of material
[19:02:52] <JT-Shop> a pain in the a$$ as one always wants to stay behind
[19:03:03] <zeeshan> yea the machine only rests on 3 at a time
[19:03:05] <zeeshan> for some reason.
[19:03:12] <JT-Shop> nice
[19:03:13] <zeeshan> just the way the weight is distributed i guess
[19:03:25] <PetefromTn> Man that looks like a lot more work than how I did it.
[19:03:28] <JT-Shop> uneven floors
[19:03:37] <zeeshan> well your floor looks nice
[19:03:45] <zeeshan> mine is decent too, skates only work on even floors :P
[19:04:08] <zeeshan> uneven floors = egyptian moving styles aka big ass pipes
[19:04:35] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/photo1_zps2c381db7.jpg
[19:04:43] <zeeshan> i had to rotate the machine 180 degrees
[19:04:49] <zeeshan> without smashing my car which is on jack stands
[19:04:57] <zeeshan> and those things worked great
[19:05:13] <Tom_itx> you could have moved the car out ya know
[19:05:17] <zeeshan> cant
[19:05:19] <zeeshan> transmission is out
[19:05:23] <zeeshan> rebuilding it
[19:05:30] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/294046
[19:05:55] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: thats how mine unloaded from the flatbed
[19:06:17] <zeeshan> slid it down onto 1 1/2" pipe
[19:06:27] <zeeshan> so there was room for the toe jacks to lift it
[19:06:43] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/294047
[19:07:21] <JT-Shop> this is what I used before getting the skates
http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-06.xhtml
[19:07:33] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
[19:07:35] <zeeshan> are you seriously using brass stock
[19:07:39] <zeeshan> haha
[19:07:42] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/294049
[19:07:45] * Tom_itx snickers at JT-Shop... even the motor housing is green!
[19:07:56] <Tom_itx> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/splitter/splitter-16.jpg
[19:08:28] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, that's the whole reason the splitter is green is the engine was a John Deere engine
[19:08:35] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:08:36] <zeeshan> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/images/hardinge-03.jpg
[19:08:38] <zeeshan> LOL
[19:08:39] <zeeshan> nice.
[19:08:47] * JT-Shop points PetefromTn to gimp so he can resize his images
[19:09:07] <zeeshan> yea PetefromTn im on a 24" 1900x1200 screen
[19:09:12] <zeeshan> and your images blew up my screen.
[19:09:32] <PetefromTn> I just used a Harbor Freight Porta Power to lift each corner of the machine a little at a time and propped it up on small blocks of wook until it was high enough to get some 4x4 skids underneath it. Then bolted it to the skids thru the leveling block mounts.
[19:09:35] <JT-Shop> Gimp is your friend on any operating system
[19:09:48] <PetefromTn> Gimp?
[19:09:52] <zeeshan> imagebin just sucks
[19:09:54] <zeeshan> use imgur
[19:10:04] <JT-Shop> yes, a free image software
[19:10:20] <JT-Shop> open in gimp and scale the image to 1200 x whatever
[19:10:27] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: whats the xyz movement on your machine?
[19:10:32] <zeeshan> *travel
[19:10:33] <JT-Shop> which one
[19:10:34] <Jymmm> Gimp = open source variant of Photoshop.
[19:10:36] <zeeshan> the bridgeport
[19:10:37] <PetefromTn> I use pixresizer but did not want to bother for a quick pc.
[19:10:47] <JT-Shop> which Bridgeport?
[19:10:50] <zeeshan> haha
[19:11:05] <zeeshan> http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308-10.xhtml
[19:11:06] <zeeshan> that one
[19:11:08] <JT-Shop> I have two BP's
[19:11:14] <zeeshan> the 308
[19:11:41] <JT-Shop> X18 Y 12.5 Z16.1
[19:11:47] <JT-Shop> inches
[19:11:55] <zeeshan> damn thats plenty.
[19:11:59] <Tom_itx> how big's the table?
[19:12:05] <PetefromTn> whats the footprint?
[19:12:13] <JT-Shop> so much nicer than 4" of Z on the BP knee mill
[19:12:29] <JT-Shop> 8x12 or so
[19:12:39] <PetefromTn> 12 REALLY?
[19:12:39] <Tom_itx> table size?
[19:12:53] <Tom_itx> that's kinda small
[19:12:54] <JT-Shop> no how much space it takes
[19:13:00] <Tom_itx> oh
[19:13:05] <JT-Shop> feet
[19:13:20] <Tom_itx> that's about the same as the small fadal we had
[19:13:31] <PetefromTn> My arrow is about 9' square and has 20x20x20 travels and a 20 tool umbrella.
[19:13:33] <Tom_itx> it fit in his garage to begin with
[19:13:35] <zeeshan> jt-shop thats why you drive the knee
[19:13:37] <zeeshan> not the quill!
[19:13:38] <zeeshan> ;p
[19:14:03] <JT-Shop> the 308 table is 14" x 32"
[19:14:06] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: you still didnt tell me the size
[19:14:06] <zeeshan> ;p
[19:14:10] <zeeshan> the height
[19:14:15] <JT-Shop> and takes up about 8' x 8' of floor
[19:14:46] <JT-Shop> gotta have room to open the doors
[19:14:47] <Tom_itx> that's a good size for a job shop
[19:14:54] <PetefromTn> The best small machine I have seen is the Fadal VMC15XT. It is about the size of my machine with a travel of 16x30...
[19:15:01] <JT-Shop> perfect for me
[19:15:26] <PetefromTn> I wanted one but got such a great deal on this machine I grabbed it anyways.
[19:15:52] * JT-Shop hears the dinner bell and is never called late for dinner!
[19:15:58] <PetefromTn> zeeshan: The machine easily fits inside my 9.5' ceiliing like I told you before. Probably could fit inside 8'
[19:16:07] <zeeshan> damn
[19:16:08] <JT-Shop> goodnight guys
[19:16:09] <zeeshan> wont fit in my garage then
[19:16:11] <zeeshan> gnite!
[19:16:14] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Goodnight.
[19:16:29] <PetefromTn> You don't have an 8' ceiling?
[19:16:40] <zeeshan> its like 7'8"
[19:16:43] <zeeshan> i think,.
[19:16:46] <zeeshan> been a while since i measured it
[19:16:51] <PetefromTn> jeez thats low...
[19:16:54] <zeeshan> but i know its a bit shy
[19:16:58] <zeeshan> of 8 feet.
[19:17:13] <zeeshan> or was that to the garage rails. i forget lol
[19:17:27] <PetefromTn> IF I move to florida I will probably have to buy a house with a garage and I plan to cut a hole in the ceiling around the machine column.
[19:17:37] <zeeshan> hahaha
[19:17:43] <PetefromTn> Standard Garage door is 9x7..
[19:17:50] <PetefromTn> I was not being funny..
[19:17:52] <zeeshan> my garage door is 20 feet wide
[19:17:57] <zeeshan> or 18
[19:18:00] <zeeshan> one of them.
[19:18:09] <PetefromTn> yeah but it is only 7' tall right.
[19:18:40] <zeeshan> lemme measure
[19:18:51] <PetefromTn> Point is there are lots of machines that will go thru a standard garage door. Mine happens to be a little taller than that..
[19:22:47] <zeeshan> knew it
[19:23:15] <zeeshan> its 7' 7" ceiling
[19:23:31] <zeeshan> garage door is 9" tall
[19:23:49] <PetefromTn> HUH?
[19:23:56] <zeeshan> the rails curve down
[19:24:00] <PetefromTn> Your garage door is taller than the ceiling.
[19:24:03] <zeeshan> yes
[19:24:21] <zeeshan> a picture would explain it, but trust me its like that
[19:24:31] <zeeshan> the footprint the machine can take is 6 feet by 8 feet max.
[19:24:31] <PetefromTn> how is that possible?
[19:24:39] <zeeshan> cause the rails curve down
[19:24:48] <zeeshan> and the front of the garage about 2 feet of it has a ceiling of 12 feet.
[19:25:09] <zeeshan> i really do not know why my ceiling goes from 12 feet to 7' 7"
[19:25:22] <zeeshan> after the first 2 feet of walking distance into the garage from the garage door
[19:25:33] <PetefromTn> wierd.
[19:25:39] <zeeshan> i should poke a hole and see whats back there
[19:26:04] <zeeshan> my bridgeport motor is about 8 inches from the ceiling
[19:26:12] <zeeshan> bridgeport clone ;p
[19:26:35] <tjtr33> anyone have luck getting this doc?
http://www-sop.inria.fr/coprin/PDF/alexandre_calibration_romansy2012.pdf
[19:26:39] <PetefromTn> http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/Used-machining-centres/Milltronics-DSCN5780.gif This is a small footprint nice machine I looked at for awhile.
[19:26:39] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zps1f93328f.jpg
[19:26:41] <zeeshan> you can see it there
[19:26:59] <tjtr33> its a cable drive robot like NIST's robocrane
[19:27:08] <Tom_itx> tjtr33 loads ok here
[19:27:13] <tjtr33> thx
[19:27:30] <tjtr33> oops wget just grabbe dit ok thx
[19:27:40] <zeeshan> if you look at that pic closesly
[19:27:51] <zeeshan> you can see where the garage ceiling changes height to 12'
[19:28:16] <PetefromTn> That looks like a decent knee mill I bet you could sell it for enough to buy a decent VMC to retrofit.
[19:28:32] <zeeshan> PetefromTn: i will definitely do that but as long as i can find a machine
[19:28:38] <zeeshan> that can meet my footprint requirements
[19:28:41] <zeeshan> ill pay upto 4k for it
[19:28:56] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, vid of forklift robot is impressive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b4YwFZhtIE
[19:29:01] <Tom_itx> could use a dro and power feed
[19:29:02] <zeeshan> if i can't find something, ill have to stick to converting this.
[19:29:16] <zeeshan> which isn't that big of a deal either
[19:29:21] <zeeshan> but it's not 7k lb!
[19:29:32] <zeeshan> which is certainly nice to have.
[19:30:18] <PetefromTn_> sorry man goofed.
[19:31:55] <zeeshan> i was just saying if i can't find something that can fit with my footprint and ceiling requirement, ill have to convert this mill which kind of sucks cause its only 2800lb.
[19:32:31] <zeeshan> and doesn't have cat40 holders which are so good for atc.
[19:32:50] <Tom_itx> doesn't?
[19:32:56] <zeeshan> they make a conversion nst30 and nst40 spindle for it
[19:32:59] <zeeshan> no its a standard r8 spindle
[19:33:26] <Tom_itx> oh i thought you were talking about your wish list
[19:33:31] <PetefromTn_> DId you see that Milltronics?
[19:33:45] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: yes, it looks small but the column looks like it'll own my ceiling
[19:33:47] <PetefromTn_> That would be a sweet small garage shop VMC.
[19:34:05] <PetefromTn_> Yeah but the head could probably easily fit between rafters..
[19:34:20] <PetefromTn_> And I don't think it is that tall overall.
[19:34:22] <zeeshan> actually thats a good point.
[19:34:34] <PetefromTn_> I ALMOST bought one of those..
[19:34:37] <zeeshan> the studs are like i think 15" apart
[19:34:46] <Tom_itx> we did that on the fadal
[19:34:52] <Tom_itx> boxed in above it
[19:34:58] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how much do those machines go for?
[19:35:00] <PetefromTn_> You can easily cut out a stud and box it in.
[19:35:04] <nlancaster> anyone have opinion on SX3 vs BF20 type desktop mills?
[19:35:18] <os1r1s> nlancaster: I have a taig that I really like
[19:35:30] <PetefromTn_> I almost bought one with a bad control for $2k.
[19:35:39] <nlancaster> was thinking of one of those machiens with a cncfusion ballscrew kit and g540 control
[19:35:58] <zeeshan> thats cheap
[19:36:12] <os1r1s> nlancaster: A friend of mine has one
[19:36:21] <os1r1s> With the cncfusion kit
[19:36:25] <nlancaster> SX3 or BF20 style?
[19:36:27] <PetefromTn_> There are lots of machines like that if it does not work or is old most shops do not want to mess with them and sell them CHEAP.
[19:37:20] <zeeshan> ill keep my eyes open.
[19:38:06] <PetefromTn_> That bridgeport looks kinda short too. Discovery 308.
[19:38:14] <zeeshan> yes
[19:38:17] <zeeshan> thats why i was interested
[19:38:19] <PetefromTn_> ALso the Bridgeport Interact 412 is small.
[19:38:21] <zeeshan> but ithink he's got it lowered or something
[19:38:34] <zeeshan> the bridgeport cncs use steppers right?
[19:38:42] <zeeshan> i know the boss machines used steppers.
[19:38:48] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:38:50] <PetefromTn_> I had to lower the millhead and remove the Z motor to get mine in but once it is inside you do what is necessary.
[19:38:52] <Tom_itx> i dunno about the others
[19:39:05] <zeeshan> http://www.fpmiller.com/Images/Inventory/3604_1_640wX480h.JPG
[19:39:06] <zeeshan> you're right!
[19:39:08] <PetefromTn_> I doubt the VMC's do.
[19:39:11] <zeeshan> that looks like it'd fit my garage.
[19:39:27] <zeeshan> wow thats short.
[19:39:55] <PetefromTn_> You would be surprised at what you can accomplish when you set your mind to it. Just gotta find one that fits thru the door.
[19:40:26] <zeeshan> i think im gonna have to look in usa.
[19:40:33] <zeeshan> canada doesn't have much of the bridgeports
[19:41:16] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/One-Used-BRIDGEPORT-VMC-1000-22-Vertical-Machining-Center-Stock-4159-/111269433350?pt=BI_Lathes&hash=item19e82cd006
[19:41:23] <zeeshan> this is the only one that pops up on ebay local to me
[19:41:29] <PetefromTn_> Call your local machine tool dealer and tell them exactly what you are looking for and say you want a cheap one.
[19:41:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah thats a big machine man.
[19:41:54] <nlancaster> make the door bigger!
[19:42:07] <zeeshan> 103” x 85” x 103”
[19:42:10] <zeeshan> is the machine size
[19:42:12] <zeeshan> trhats not that big
[19:42:22] <PetefromTn_> nlancaster: Ask Connor about his BF20/0704
[19:42:22] <zeeshan> that'd fit in my garage easily
[19:42:32] <nlancaster> my dream benchtop costs much less then that brand new.
[19:42:35] <zeeshan> but its also 20000
[19:42:37] <zeeshan> which is overpriced.
[19:42:43] <nlancaster> admitedly probably not as stiff. but much easier to work with at home
[19:43:36] <PetefromTn_> Not even close..
[19:44:27] <zeeshan> lol
[19:44:33] <zeeshan> its 103 inches in height
[19:44:45] <zeeshan> thought 85" was the height. lol that won't work.
[19:46:25] <PetefromTn_> Ya know what is really cool for a small shop is to retrofit a Brother Drill and Tap to LinuxCNC... that would be cool and FAST.
[19:47:05] <Connor> nlancaster: G0704/BF20/BF25 etc have a box frame column
[19:47:25] <Connor> SX3 is open in the back.. if though the machine is heavier.. not as rigid.
[19:47:44] <nlancaster> that is what I was seeing, could see that making some difference.
[19:47:45] <Connor> Lots more G0704/BF20 conversions too.
[19:47:49] <nlancaster> what about motor?
[19:48:13] <Connor> chances are your going to ditch it and upgrade to belt drive..
[19:48:21] <nlancaster> good to know
[19:48:32] <nlancaster> is the stock hardware ok?
[19:48:32] <zeeshan> screw gear head!
[19:48:35] <Connor> I'm using a Treadmill motor on mine.
[19:48:37] <zeeshan> noisy
[19:48:38] <nlancaster> serviceable i mean
[19:48:46] <Connor> Yea. it's not bad.
[19:48:59] <zeeshan> nlancaster:
[19:49:06] <Connor> I'm running original screws on mine.. not upgraded to ballscrews yets.
[19:49:31] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHoqVccW0Ag
[19:49:34] <zeeshan> watch those series of videos
[19:49:42] <zeeshan> to see how awesome the g0704 is
[19:49:55] <zeeshan> and how easy it is to convert with off the shelf parts.
[19:49:57] <Connor> Tear down on it really is easy.
[19:51:11] <Connor> use the Chines C7 ball screws, not the rutons..
[19:51:32] <zeeshan> connor i dont like how its bolteby 4 bolts
[19:51:36] <zeeshan> the vertical column
[19:52:33] <Connor> Some versions of the BF have the column sitting atop the base.. but.. with it being bolted to the back, that allows you to add a 2" extension to extend travel.
[19:52:52] <Connor> I've never taken mine off.
[19:54:28] <zeeshan> too bad this guy is using mach 3
[19:54:30] <zeeshan> =D
[19:54:52] <nlancaster> not sure what the CNC fusion kit uses
[19:54:56] <nlancaster> it is a good looking kit
[19:55:38] <PetefromTn_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7V57_7H9zw DROOL>>>
[19:56:10] <Connor> nlancaster: I wouldn't use that kit.. don't like how they did the Z.
[19:56:35] <Connor> they're a few on ebay, I think arazoniajoe has one.. though I think he used rutons.. Hoss has plans.
[19:57:18] <nlancaster> lol, just found hoss's site
[19:57:55] <Connor> Or, just make your own... using the plans.. What I did.. waiting for Hoss to test out double ball nut setup..
[19:58:16] <zeeshan> connor why a double ballnut
[19:58:35] <zeeshan> a single ball nut with properly sized balls will be backlash fre ;p
[19:58:43] <nlancaster> but more expensive
[19:58:55] <nlancaster> touble nut with cheaper hardware will be less expensive
[19:59:07] <zeeshan> he's saying double ball nut
[19:59:12] <zeeshan> thats not cheaper!
[19:59:14] <nlancaster> double*
[20:01:16] <Connor> sorry, had to reboot..
[20:01:24] <Connor> last thing I saw was, Why double ball nut..
[20:01:30] <Connor> answer.. lower backlash.
[20:01:37] <zeeshan> 0:41:54] <zeeshan> a single ball nut with properly sized balls will be backlash free
[20:01:42] <Connor> probably close to 0
[20:02:42] <Connor> Yea... I haven't decided yet..
[20:05:03] <zeeshan> damn, that keling kit
[20:05:09] <zeeshan> is expensive for the mechanical mounts.
[20:05:39] <zeeshan> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/featured-cnc-products/grizzly-g0704-mill-cnc-conversion-kit-mounts-with-ballnut-mounts
[20:05:47] <zeeshan> i guarantee you that costs no more than 50$ for the chinese to make
[20:06:53] <nlancaster> nice
[20:07:17] <nlancaster> your wrong, probably at least $51, because of the person they actually paid.
[20:07:33] <zeeshan> it says made in usa on the bottom
[20:07:34] <zeeshan> B.S.
[20:07:35] <zeeshan> lol
[20:07:45] <Tom_itx> maybe the profit
[20:07:51] <Tom_itx> is made in the usa
[20:07:55] <zeeshan> haha
[20:08:33] <Valen> probably the website is
[20:08:36] <Valen> or the label
[20:08:58] <nlancaster> Valen!
[20:09:01] <nlancaster> someone else that watches B5!
[20:09:27] <jdh> those look like the BDtools mounts
[20:09:32] <Valen> well...watched....
[20:09:39] <nlancaster> yes
[20:09:46] <Valen> also thanks for not thinking it is a vanhalen reference
[20:09:47] <nlancaster> I use Vaelin as a game handle
[20:10:28] <jdh> and a single ballnut from chai will not be really backlash free
[20:10:39] <zeeshan> jdh have you tested it?
[20:10:49] <zeeshan> from the videos i've seen they are 0 back lash
[20:10:57] <zeeshan> only time theyre not 0 backlash is when theyre missing a ball
[20:11:12] <jdh> they are all missing a ball
[20:11:42] <Valen> We use a pair of nuts with belvile washers in between
[20:11:54] <jdh> that would be nice if there is room.
[20:12:07] <zeeshan> jdh do some work
[20:12:13] <zeeshan> and get it working!
[20:12:35] <jdh> my others are non-zero
[20:13:40] <zeeshan> a little bit of backlash compensation doesnt hurt ;p
[20:13:57] <jdh> it doesn't help climb milling
[20:14:34] <zeeshan> yea but for our lathes its a non issue
[20:14:52] <zeeshan> for the mill im buying rockford ball screws
[20:15:00] <zeeshan> if i don't buy a vmc
[20:18:11] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OkBMA43qzg
[20:18:12] <zeeshan> damn
[20:18:33] <zeeshan> the g0704 leaves a nice finish
[20:18:45] <jdh> I need to make a new ballnut mount for my Z
[20:18:53] <zeeshan> why
[20:19:01] <jdh> I made it out of delrin
[20:20:09] <jdh> I cut the xyz motor mounts out of delrin, hooked up the motors and used the mill to make the rest of the mounts and ballnut mounts.
[20:20:16] <jdh> but, never remade the Z
[20:20:40] <jdh> that keling pic of the g0704 mounts is BD's pic with the background changed.
[20:20:51] <zeeshan> haha
[20:21:44] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_deQgr-hIQ
[20:21:48] <zeeshan> lol at this guy abusing his machine
[20:22:28] <zeeshan> the machine doesnt have enough hp
[20:22:36] <zeeshan> er the spindle
[20:22:51] <jdh> I've stalled mine a few times.
[20:22:57] <zeeshan> you have a g0704|
[20:22:58] <zeeshan> ?
[20:23:02] <jdh> yeah
[20:23:10] <zeeshan> i think the 1hp is bs then
[20:23:20] <jdh> no, it's just 1CHP
[20:23:24] <zeeshan> i've milling that same cut he was doing
[20:23:26] <zeeshan> on a bridgeport 1hp
[20:23:34] <zeeshan> c?
[20:23:49] <jdh> chinese horsepower... their horses are smaller
[20:23:54] <zeeshan> haha
[20:24:02] <zeeshan> i think its prolly around .5hp
[20:24:03] <Tom_itx> dragon power
[20:24:44] <zeeshan> the g0704 looks very easy to reinforce though
[20:25:00] <zeeshan> put the whole machine on a 2" thick plate
[20:25:04] <jdh> if you have limited space and don't need a real mill, it is a cheap alternative.
[20:25:26] <zeeshan> and rib the column
[20:25:57] <PetefromTn_> and get an RF45..
[20:26:01] <zeeshan> nahh
[20:26:04] <zeeshan> get an ih mill!
[20:26:36] <PetefromTn_> an IH IS an RF45..
[20:26:43] <zeeshan> no
[20:26:46] <zeeshan> rf45 is smaller
[20:27:24] <PetefromTn_> No there are several versions of the RF45 and the IH is one of them.
[20:27:32] <zeeshan> https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/MD002-RF45-clone-p-16134.html
[20:27:38] <zeeshan> thats the rf45 clone at around 800lb
[20:27:38] <PetefromTn_> My old machine was a hybrid of the two.
[20:27:44] <zeeshan> https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/MD001-IH-Clone-p-16133.html
[20:27:50] <zeeshan> the ih clone is around 1200lb
[20:27:53] <zeeshan> er 1100
[20:28:02] <PetefromTn_> You are gonna tell me man I had one...Belive me I know all about them.
[20:28:57] <zeeshan> anyway regardless of what its called
[20:29:02] <zeeshan> weight tells all ;p
[20:29:27] <PetefromTn_> My machine was a hybrid that had the same exact head as the IH machine but the smaller base. It was a freak.
[20:29:45] <zeeshan> the ih is a beast
[20:29:58] <zeeshan> that thing eats through steel like its nothing
[20:30:29] <PetefromTn_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRMfJwx2Dng&feature=c4-overview&list=UUFCopiUpaDrS5VBkrYFuGFQ This is my old machine.
[20:31:04] <PetefromTn_> Everything is relative.
[20:31:13] <zeeshan> whyd you sell it
[20:31:16] <PetefromTn_> I thought the RF45 was awesome until I got this machine
[20:31:16] <zeeshan> wanted more capacity?
[20:31:24] <zeeshan> yea well it depends on what you wanna do.
[20:31:30] <PetefromTn_> THen I saw what a real VMC can do and my machine is gutless in comparison.
[20:31:36] <zeeshan> you're not going to be machining aluminum wheels on a rf45.
[20:31:38] <zeeshan> you need a vmc for that.
[20:31:55] <PetefromTn_> I did make aluminum wheels on my RF45..
[20:32:08] <PetefromTn_> And a lot of other stuff.
[20:32:11] <zeeshan> maybe the hubs. lol
[20:32:26] <PetefromTn_> No I machined wheels both before it was CNC and after.
[20:32:39] <PetefromTn_> Oh you mean car wheels huh.
[20:32:45] <zeeshan> yes
[20:33:01] <PetefromTn_> No you would not want to try that even on the IH I think..
[20:33:08] <zeeshan> exactly!
[20:33:10] <zeeshan> its too small.
[20:33:11] <PetefromTn_> My Cincinatti could do it quite easily tho.
[20:33:23] <zeeshan> i saw a person boring a 4 cylinderr engine block
[20:33:25] <zeeshan> on the ih mill.
[20:33:44] <zeeshan> all depends at the end user in the end
[20:33:52] <zeeshan> i know the travel on my bridgeport clone is more than enough for me
[20:33:54] <PetefromTn_> Yeah right.. THat is a picture that has gone around..
[20:34:08] <zeeshan> i
[20:34:25] <zeeshan> i'd like to machine aluminum heads, make flanges, make valve bodies etc
[20:34:36] <PetefromTn_> Boring cylinders is not a job for a milling machine.
[20:34:51] <zeeshan> why not?
[20:35:07] <PetefromTn_> Because there are machines that are made to do that specifically.
[20:35:23] <zeeshan> still doesn't mean you can't do it
[20:35:23] <PetefromTn_> They do it better and faster and more concentric
[20:35:50] <PetefromTn_> Maybe a weed eater or something or a motorcycle engine but a car engine take to the Automotive machine shop.
[20:35:53] <zeeshan> yea if the stroke of the motor is very long then i wouldn't even consider it.
[20:36:07] <zeeshan> if its only a 4" tall bore
[20:36:09] <zeeshan> why not. ;p
[20:36:40] <PetefromTn_> I mean you can do whatever you want but I am just saying I would not bother especially for what the pro shops charge to do it let them take care of it right.
[20:37:00] <zeeshan> i wouldnt either man.
[20:37:05] <zeeshan> its like 100$ to bore a v8
[20:37:17] <zeeshan> im just saying it can be done ;p
[20:37:39] <zeeshan> one way is faster, the other is slower.
[20:37:56] <zeeshan> at mcmaster university, where i go
[20:38:13] <zeeshan> we have a MMRI lab, which is the manufacturing research lab
[20:38:27] <zeeshan> one of the purpose of most of their research is faster machining
[20:38:55] <PetefromTn_> Oh shit I think I just burnt up my big ass chorded drill..
[20:39:36] <zeeshan> majority of their research ends up being "take this given machine and tool, optimize it more"
[20:41:57] <PetefromTn_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlbcObiXyzE NICE>
[20:42:44] <zeeshan> http://mmri.mcmaster.ca/msl/facilities.html
[20:42:51] <zeeshan> these are the babies ill be able to mess around with next year
[20:42:55] <zeeshan> during my thesis
[20:43:48] <zeeshan> Matsuura LX-1 -> rapid movement = 3540ipm
[20:43:48] <zeeshan> lol
[20:43:57] <PetefromTn_> LIke the okuma cadet had a friend who has one.
[20:45:11] <zeeshan> fanuc controls = win
[20:46:41] <PetefromTn_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5x68Jqlevc
[20:46:52] <PetefromTn_> LinxCNC Controle=WIN!
[20:47:07] <zeeshan> as much as i love linuxcnc
[20:47:16] <zeeshan> you'll never see it in a high end production facility
[20:47:25] <zeeshan> it'll usually be siemens or fanuc controlls
[20:47:27] <PetefromTn_> Probably not buy ya never know.
[20:47:49] <CaptHindsight> we are using it in the most precision printers in the world
[20:48:15] <CaptHindsight> the shop floor has lots of legacy in controllers
[20:48:29] <CaptHindsight> new machine designs don't have this to deal with
[20:48:29] <zeeshan> when i say high end production facility, i mean manufactueres that provide parts to places like airbus, ford, gm, etc
[20:48:35] <zeeshan> *airbus = boeing
[20:48:43] <PetefromTn_> Dunno about the Fanuc and siemens thing...
[20:49:13] <CaptHindsight> all we run into is needing CAM to catch up with additive manufacturing
[20:49:17] <zeeshan> i've worked at 3 different production facilities -- operations technnologist
[20:49:35] <zeeshan> job was to make sure the robots and cnc machines operated
[20:49:45] <zeeshan> it was always siemens or fanuc controls
[20:49:58] <CaptHindsight> machines need operators and they are used to legacy controls
[20:50:00] <zeeshan> and with the robots it was either abb, fanuc or mitsubishi
[20:50:06] <PetefromTn_> then how come you can't get a stepper estop system running?
[20:50:17] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i didn't design the machines
[20:50:22] <zeeshan> i followed manuals
[20:50:49] <zeeshan> i have 5gigs of fanuc manuals on my drive
[20:50:52] <zeeshan> ;P
[20:50:54] <PetefromTn_> LOL just bustin balls man relax..
[20:51:18] <zeeshan> after those jobs, i decided i wanted to be a mech eng ;p
[20:51:27] <zeeshan> electronics drives me insane.
[20:51:58] <zeeshan> fluid mechanics, heat transfer, structural mechanics is my speciality!
[20:52:10] <PetefromTn_> I'm much more of a mechanical guy then an electronics guy but I get it done or find help with it If I cannot.
[20:52:30] <zeeshan> and hopefully after masters, ill have solid knowledge on plastic deformation
[20:52:44] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i bet you're like me then
[20:52:52] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: ever work with inkjets or micronozzles for deposition?
[20:52:52] <zeeshan> you like modular electronics
[20:52:54] <zeeshan> not micro
[20:53:09] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: no, the micromachining lab deals with that stuff
[20:53:44] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do they actually use cutting tools or is is chemical and laser based?
[20:54:09] <zeeshan> they use high speed cutting tools , edm and also laser
[20:54:47] <zeeshan> for some reason the focus of their study ends up something to do with microfluid behaviour
[20:58:17] <zeeshan> http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a98500_baby-shirt_13-emoticon.jpg
[20:58:19] <zeeshan> lol wtf..
[20:59:14] <PetefromTn_> When I was in the Coast Guard I was an electronics Tech and worked on radar and avionics equipment. Had to troubleshoot to the component level a good bit.
[20:59:48] <zeeshan> i'd kill myself if someone asked me to do that
[20:59:52] <CaptHindsight> the baby with the iron crotch
[20:59:58] <PetefromTn_> Don't remember much of it now it has been more than 20 years.
[21:00:14] <zeeshan> with electronics, its like give me a diagram or i'm SOL.
[21:00:38] <zeeshan> that being said, i very much enjoy high voltage distribution stuff.
[21:00:48] <zeeshan> i loved working at eaton!!
[21:58:53] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFS6cP9auDc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEFS6cP9auDc&app=desktop Wow I had no idea..
[23:57:50] <R2e4_> evening
[23:59:45] <R2e4_> i am working on servo amps. can never get it to stopdrifting.
