#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-02-09

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[00:11:12] <mazafaka1> Why do one need to grind the cutter? Just for other cutting angles?
[00:18:47] <tjtr33> because you cant buy 'em :) to cut the runner for a mold, i always made my own cutters ( trapezoidal with radiused corner )
[00:19:24] <tjtr33> i didnt find that Holzman UWS 3 till just now 1200$ USD
[00:19:27] <tjtr33> http://www.westec-tools.de/werkzeugschleifmaschinen/universal-werkzeugschleifmaschine-holzmann-uws-3--3279.html
[00:19:38] <tjtr33> Holzmann
[00:37:10] <mazafaka1> Oh, I can understand. If I for example need certain radius as if it's a ball end mill, I can round the shape using this cutter.
[02:21:02] <Deejay> moin
[05:32:00] <jthornton> morning
[08:11:06] <mrsun> hmm, is there any halui pin for checking if all axis are homed? =)
[08:11:30] <Guest64503> trying to add a Z axis touchoff button but i want to check so all axises are homed before starting to set alot of memories and stuff =)
[08:12:42] <JT-Shop> what does the button do?
[08:13:31] <MrSun_> its supposed to check if im in mdi mode, if not set mdi mode, run the tool down until it touches a plate, then go back up, and reset to non mdi mode again
[08:13:44] <MrSun_> (i want the mdi switching cause i want a remote button on the machine for touching off Z)
[08:14:01] <MrSun_> not having ot go to the computer and move to mdi manualy
[08:14:26] <MrSun_> but, if not all axes are homed it still sets some memory and that memory wont reset when it fails :P
[08:14:59] <MrSun_> as the fail i dont think is in the classicladder program (im modifying an existing program for my preferences) but its linuxcnc forcing end of program or something =)
[08:15:39] <MrSun_> first time playing around with this stuff =)
[08:15:41] <JT-Shop> if your already in mdi mode why switch to a non mdi mode (whatever that is)
[08:15:50] <MrSun_> so i guess i should have the emergency kill switch close and handy :P
[08:16:01] <MrSun_> JT-Shop, well usaly im not
[08:16:03] <MrSun_> thats the thing =)
[08:16:12] <MrSun_> specialy not when jogging around and setting machine Z
[08:16:24] <Einar_Shop> What could cause this error: http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/compErrors.txt
[08:16:57] <MrSun_> then im in front of the machine and when i press the actual button on the machine to zero Z i dont want to first have to go to the computer and manualy set MDI mode to be able to touch off the tool, nr do i have to manualy go to compuer and go out of mdi mode =)
[08:18:21] <MrSun_> so is there any hal pin to check if the machine is homed fully or not ?
[08:18:41] * JT-Shop has never heard of --preprocess for comp before
[08:18:55] <JT-Shop> sure halui has pins for that
[08:19:05] <archivist> the error message seems plain
[08:19:33] <MrSun_> JT-Shop, name of them ? cant find them in the documentation
[08:19:45] * JT-Shop does not see --preprocess in the comp manual
[08:19:54] <JT-Shop> halui man page
[08:20:06] <MrSun_> halui.joint.<n>.is-homed (bit, out) - status pin telling that the joint is homed
[08:20:11] <MrSun_> i find, but thats per axis
[08:20:26] <Einar_Shop> Same error if --install. Source file -> http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/boxfordATC.comp
[08:21:03] <Einar_Shop> Maybe I don't have the right comp? I found it in --help and man comp.
[08:21:39] <JT-Shop> did you follow the instructions in the manual for installing comp?
[08:23:10] <Einar_Shop> ?? No. It followed the cat in. Anything hoops to jump through there?
[08:23:40] <Einar_Shop> It worked fine on the toolchanger.comp
[08:24:08] <Einar_Shop> -> http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/toolchanger.comp
[08:25:16] <Einar_Shop> So I guessed something wrong in my (first) .comp source. But I don't know how to decode the error messages.
[08:27:24] <JT-Shop> start with a basic comp then add until you get an error then fix the error line
[08:27:42] <JT-Shop> or start commenting out lines till the error goes away
[08:30:17] <archivist> or fix comp to output the line it was working on with a better error message
[08:30:55] <Einar_Shop> Are nesting /* */ pairs allowed in the comp language.
[08:31:31] <Einar_Shop> archivist: Would be my choice if I knew how!
[08:32:19] <JT-Shop> the manual give two options for comments
[08:32:41] <JT-Shop> for the declaration section
[08:33:05] <Einar_Shop> URL to manual?
[08:35:38] <MrSun_> ok got that part sorted out, now i have a new problem .. if the probe goes until its ful move is done and it hasnt dont contact, linuxcnc throws an error and blam .. my memories are not reset and button stops working. .. :/
[08:35:49] <MrSun_> G38.2 move finished without making contact
[08:37:19] <JT-Shop> linuxcnc.org
[08:37:19] <Einar_Shop> Found manual. And yes I followed the instructions installing it.
[08:37:49] <JT-Shop> ok, then the error is in your comp
[08:38:05] <JT-Shop> MrSun_, did you expect something else?
[08:38:17] * JT-Shop goes to check on the pig belly
[08:39:56] <Einar_Shop> Yes, I assumed the error is in my comp. Was hoping someone knew what direction those error messages was trying to steer me.
[08:40:43] <Einar_Shop> As it is my first comp from (almost) scratch I probably can sit staring at the problem without seeing it.
[08:42:53] <jthornton> the error seems to be cryptic and possibly an C error well past comp
[08:43:20] <jthornton> so start with a working comp and add to it till you get the error
[08:43:31] <jthornton> pastebin your comp might help too
[08:43:40] <archivist> if()dosomething;else seems wrong syntax
[08:43:58] <archivist> done at least twice
[08:44:23] <MrSun_> JT-Shop, ofc i expect an error but i also expect a way to counter the error without the whole classicladder program getting killed by it :P
[08:45:38] <jthornton> then your classicladder program is faulty if it can't handle poorly written g code
[08:45:42] <MrSun_> but as it looks the motion.in-postion that is used in the touch off procedure just bails out leaving everything and everyone hangin :P
[08:45:54] <MrSun_> jthornton, ive never programmed this stuff :(
[08:45:56] <MrSun_> its someone elses work
[08:46:04] <MrSun_> im just tring to make it do what i want to
[08:46:10] <jthornton> learning can be fun...
[08:46:28] <jthornton> in the first place why do you not have a probe move that is long enough?
[08:46:46] <MrSun_> so just hearing "its your program that is faulty" doesnt help much cause ive figured that much ... but hard when the manuals ONLY tell that "tells if machine is in position" not "this is what happends when it succeeds or this is what happends when it fails" :P
[08:47:06] <Einar_Shop> With this source, same errors:
[08:47:14] <Einar_Shop> component boxfordATC "Boxford 250 Lathe Auto Tool Changer. M6 calls this";
[08:47:14] <Einar_Shop> pin in bit toolchange;
[08:47:14] <Einar_Shop> function _;
[08:47:14] <Einar_Shop> license "GPL";
[08:47:14] <Einar_Shop> ;;
[08:47:14] <Einar_Shop> rtapi_print_msg(RTAPI_MSG_ERR, "Hallo verden!");
[08:47:24] <jthornton> oh no don't post it here
[08:47:35] <jthornton> use pastebin
[08:47:52] <MrSun_> jthornton, shouldnt matter? if i happend to set the zero at my top end of machine the 50mm move will not be long enough no ... but if that happends i dont want to have to restart the whole freakin thing, also its a safety thing ... machine is strong .. like hell so if move is 300mm it will lift everything and start bending stuff before the move is finnished
[08:47:59] <MrSun_> at 50mm the lift is still manageable by the machine
[08:48:09] <Einar_Shop> That was all.
[08:48:54] <MrSun_> so, is there any error bit or something set when motion.in-position fails ?
[08:50:48] <jthornton> yes the manual states the result of an unsuccessful probe
[08:51:27] <MrSun_> G38.2 signals error to gui i see while G38.3 does not ... so using G38.3 might be more usefull for me
[08:51:54] <MrSun_> as even G38.2 cant detect if there is a lead error not :P
[08:52:07] <tjtr33> Einar_, be careful of names , error report said com was "boxfordATC.comp" while source file looks like name is set by "component toolchanger"
[08:52:16] <tjtr33> com//comp
[08:52:17] <MrSun_> so if i reach my designated value and probe has not made contact it should be concidered an fault
[08:52:45] <MrSun_> but i can manage the fault grazefully insted of linuxcnc just killing everything around it :P
[08:53:01] <Einar_Shop> So I copied the Simple Comp Example from http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html to replace my program in the same file. And I get the same error message.
[08:53:24] <MrSun_> now, how to check the axis value against my predefined value in classic ladder .. heh ...
[08:53:54] <Einar_Shop> If I was not so stubborn I would have done the toolchanger with an ATXmega by now!
[08:55:19] <Einar_Shop> But when not even the manual example will compile, I'm lost. Especially when ArcEye's comp will compile. Which I assume means the comp program is not broken.
[08:57:32] <Einar_Shop> Checked the permissions. Both comp sources are equal.
[08:58:31] <tjtr33> the example has to be called ddt.comp. the hal load has to say load(rt) ddt. do your names agree and does the name inside the file agree?
[09:02:20] <Einar_Shop> No. Tried to rename the example to boxfordatc and same error (I renamed file to lower case only too)
[09:03:41] <tjtr33> if same error then could the comp binary program ( in bin ) have gotten mangled? check at least timestamp
[09:04:42] <tjtr33> wait if you rename the example from wiki to boxfordatc it wont work it has to be named same as inside the file . it has to be "ddt"
[09:04:58] <tjtr33> or change file name AND change the code
[09:05:41] <Einar_Shop> I changed first line to: component boxfordatc "Compute the derivative of the input function";
[09:05:57] <JT-Shop> MrSun_, use the compare block
[09:06:04] <Einar_Shop> and the file name is boxfordatc.comp
[09:06:40] <tjtr33> ok , then check timestamp on bin/comp ( all i can think of unless you have path probs )
[09:09:28] <Einar_Shop> It's in usr/bin. Modified: Tue 23 Jul 2013 10:20:16 PM CEST Size: 53105 bytes.
[09:11:27] <tjtr33> i just tried ren'ing ddt.comp to fred and then comp --preprocess fred.comp worked ok, will try yours next
[09:12:07] <PetefromTn> Mornin' folks..
[09:12:44] <tjtr33> but my test worked , yours didnt, so something munged in your environment. may not learn anything with your source (likely wont )
[09:13:29] <MrSun_> ough this was hard =)
[09:14:03] <MrSun_> net set-mdi-mode classicladder.0.out-04 => halui.mode.mdi so i got this, this will end up as %LoutB4 in classic ladder, to assign a bit value of 0 or 1 to this, what should i use to do that? :/
[09:14:29] <MrSun_> using a -(S)- works for going into mdi mode ... but -(R)- does not let me go out of it :P
[09:16:12] <tjtr33> Einar_, yep, your source runs fine with comp --preprocess toolchanger.comp ( used orig name so src notes were good )
[09:16:53] <tjtr33> Einar_, your current prob is not in the src ( bet that didnt help at all )
[09:18:51] <tjtr33> Einar_, i cnat verify the timestamp on your file, i have a built system so my date is when i built it
[09:19:08] <Einar_> tjtr33, Actually it does help. Now at least I know the problem is not a source file problem.
[09:19:43] <tjtr33> are you running a RIP ( run in place )?
[09:19:47] <Einar_> tjtr33, Probably same here.
[09:19:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVzRyKxD6Zc#t=22 paper cutter 3d printer, I wonder if there's a patent on a cnc stapler?
[09:20:53] <Einar_> I think it's a RIP. Although I don't know what that means. ;-)
[09:21:48] <tjtr33> it means you have to say . scripts/rip-environment before trying to say comp --preprocess fred.comp NOTE the DOT!
[09:22:49] <tjtr33> it means its a second version of linuxcnc that resides in a home directory, and coexists ( usually) with another 'installed' version
[09:23:13] <Einar_> Will try that when going in the shop again. I had to straighten my knuckles. Sitting folded inside a lathe doing that stuff is not comfortable.
[09:23:31] <tjtr33> its a way to test a new feature laden linuxcnc while retaining the original cd installed linuxcnc
[09:23:53] <tjtr33> ok best of luck
[09:24:20] <Einar_> Sounds familiar. I have to cd linuxcnc-dev and run a script in froim there to run LinuxCNC.
[09:24:47] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, there are patents on the fold-em-up & slide-em-in connectors for paper and cardboard
[09:25:48] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I was being facetious
[09:26:04] <tjtr33> i was being the postal clerk on cheers
[09:26:35] <CaptHindsight> Cliff!
[09:27:17] <tjtr33> off to shovel!
[09:27:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botdmsQilnU
[09:28:08] <Einar_> tjtr33, Haha. I did that too, softening up my body before creeping into the lathe.
[09:28:47] <Einar_> It's good excersise if you do it right.
[09:36:17] <JT-Shop> MrSun_, I can be of more help if you share your classicladder file
[09:36:37] <JT-Shop> also have you read this http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/ladder/index.html
[09:38:27] <MrSun_> its just the clp file?
[09:42:09] <MrSun_> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6t7urx867yVSy1WaTlfY2JFUHc/edit?usp=sharing that is my clp file
[09:43:27] <MrSun_> "halui.mode.mdi (bit, in) - pin for requesting mdi mode" is the actual pin i want to set a value of, i guess either 0 (for not mdi) or 1 (for mdi) but that is realy not stated in the manual
[09:44:06] <MrSun_> hmm or is it halui.mode.manual i want after that to set it back to the non mdi mode ?
[09:46:59] <MrSun_> yeah!
[09:47:01] <MrSun_> that was it =)
[09:47:05] <MrSun_> now i can probe all night long!
[09:47:38] <JT-Shop> ok you got it working?
[09:47:43] <MrSun_> now i just want to make a big red or green dot in my gui to indicate if touch of was successfull (before Z-50 or not .. if probe reaches -50) =)
[09:47:46] <MrSun_> JT-Shop, yeap =)
[09:48:30] <JT-Shop> great
[09:48:35] <MrSun_> but a new problem arose ...
[09:48:44] <JT-Shop> more fun then
[09:48:47] <MrSun_> "Probe move in MDI would exceed joint 2's negative limit"
[09:48:55] <MrSun_> and fails non grazefully .. again :P
[09:49:03] <MrSun_> leaving some memories set and some not
[09:50:33] <MrSun_> so i guess i need to check that myself with a compare block before its allowed to start probing ...
[09:51:41] <MrSun_> but learning alot here atleast =)
[09:51:53] <MrSun_> fun to be able to customize the experience as linuxcnc seems to be quite flexible =)
[09:58:43] <R2E4_> morn'in
[10:01:20] <MrSun_> these "hard" fails that heppends is kinda kicking my butt :(
[10:01:35] <MrSun_> i dont like it how it just ends the execution cause the function called fails :/
[10:02:35] <R2E4_> I am working on connecting encoders to 7i77.
[10:03:25] <R2E4_> There is no manual online for the encoders I can find.
[10:04:16] <R2E4_> They are 8 wire, 2 for 5vdc power and 6 coder wires.
[10:04:20] <Einar_Shop> I Just tried to copy the content of toolchanger.comp into boxfordatc.comp. Then compiling the first succeds, but the second fails with the same messages as before!?!?!
[10:05:15] <R2E4_> the 7i77 calls for QA /QA, QB /QB and IDX /IDX
[10:05:58] <R2E4_> I have PCZY1 PCZY2, PCAY1 PCAY2, PCBY1 PCBY2
[10:06:19] <pcw_home> sounds like standard differential (line driver) quadrature encoders so 1-1 connections
[10:06:21] <pcw_home> (and 7I77 needs to be jumpered for differential)
[10:06:23] <pcw_home> z is index
[10:07:03] <pcw_home> PCAY1 = QA
[10:07:05] <pcw_home> PCAY2 = /QA
[10:07:06] <pcw_home> etc etc
[10:07:32] <R2E4_> ok, thanks.
[10:08:25] <R2E4_> ok thanks. I have to get the 5V off the computer for the 7i77. I have the 5volt PS installed, and have to move the jumper on 7i77 and the jumper on the 5i25 to use external power. Correct?
[10:08:49] <R2E4_> I dont want to blow the boards a this point.
[10:09:21] <pcw_home> Yes ist better tp use an independent supply (depending on how much power the encoders draw)
[10:10:05] <pcw_home> one jumper on 7I77 one on 5I25 and 5V to 7I77 2 pin TB
[10:10:52] <R2E4_> IT says the defaulkt position is differential. I'll double check anmyway.
[10:11:43] <pcw_home> 7I77 W5 right 5I25 W3 down
[10:11:56] <pcw_home> (for external 7I77 5V power)
[10:17:59] <R2E4_> I put the pullup resistor 2K on the 3 wire prox sensor and the voltage out didnt change. It worked both ways, but I havent connected it to the 7i77 yet. They are NPN's and it will be active low.
[10:21:12] <pcw_home> are you saying the proximity switch output voltage switched even without the pullup?
[10:21:32] <R2E4_> yes
[10:25:12] <Einar_Shop> So I did the opposite: Copied my code into toolchanger.comp, and it compiled!?! With some errors, but they generate meaningful messages, so I can go after them.
[10:25:48] <pcw_home> Ahh they may have a built in pullup (or its just leakage, a DVM can't tell)
[10:26:05] <Einar_Shop> This seems to mean all components I write must be put in toolchanger.comp. That's what we call a workaround. ;-)
[10:27:41] <R2E4_> ah. HEre is the pdf sheet for it. LM123004NA http://www.fctcl.com/Upload/%E4%BA%A7%E5%93%81%E4%B8%AD%E5%BF%83/Sensorandtransmitter/InductiveSensor-14134953210.pdf
[10:32:08] <JT-Shop> Einar_Shop, you should be able to write a comp from a blank text file
[10:32:34] <JT-Shop> you may have something in the original one like windoze line endings or something else
[10:45:22] <Einar_Shop> JT-Shop, I know I _should_ be able to. But it just does not work. Line endings, hidden characters etc. is why I tried to copy the content of a file I previously compiled into this one.
[10:46:22] <Einar_Shop> But it seems the problem is the file, not the contents of the file. Sounds weird!? Sure.
[10:55:52] <JT-Shop> your doing all the editing on Ubuntu?
[10:58:28] <tjtr33> do the file names agree? ( name of file, & in the file the name declared as the comp, and the files are in the RIP, and you source the rip environment script )
[11:04:57] <PetefromTn> Hey folks!
[11:06:21] <PetefromTn> Managed to get a data cable made for the VMC yesterday...
[11:07:19] <PetefromTn> Now I just need to get some sorta rf45 socket adapter I can install into the pendant so I don't have to unscrew anything to use it.
[11:10:11] <Einar_> I made the initial source in windows using Programmers Notepad. Made changes in Ubuntu. But I think that cannot be the problem since I could compile it after I copied it into the toolchanger.comp file. (Replacing it's original content.)
[11:10:30] <PetefromTn> Something like the little dual USB plate i installed already I can screw in from behind would be nice. Then if I need to update anything or if I eventually decide to network the machine to send gcode to it I am good to go.
[11:12:42] <Einar_> After this copy, the filenames do not agree. But I can change that, as I intend replacing the toolchanger component with mine. So there will not be a clash during load if I do.
[11:14:13] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn home improvement has em
[11:14:40] <PetefromTn> Oh yeah...cool. home despot is right down the road.
[11:15:32] <PetefromTn> I'm at the doctors right now my wife is not feeling good so I wait in the waiting room on guest wiring LOL.
[11:15:34] <Einar_Shop> I see the resulting file is toolchanger.ko even if the source says "component boxfordATC".
[11:15:51] <PetefromTn> Wifi
[11:16:58] <archivist> Einar_, your original boxfordATC.comp has dos line endings, naughty
[11:18:23] <Einar_Shop> What about now: http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/toolchanger.comp
[11:19:27] <archivist> open in a hex editor and look for 0d 0a
[11:19:52] <Einar_Shop> Can I change it in gedit?
[11:20:32] <Einar_Shop> Or I can go in and change it on the PC.
[11:20:39] <Tom_itx> yeah
[11:22:04] <MrSun_> how to bind a variable to classicladder that is already occupied by something else? :/
[11:22:09] <PetefromTn> Love reading about other folks working on toolchanger in linuxcnc.
[11:22:14] <MrSun_> net zpos-cmd axis.2.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.2.position-cmd
[11:22:17] <MrSun_> i want to access that variable
[11:23:58] <MrSun_> i might be chasing something i shouldnt here but :P
[11:24:06] <Einar_> Strangely Programmer's Notepad says it is using Unix line endings (LF).
[11:24:31] <JT-Shop> which "variable" as nothing in that hal command is a variable?
[11:24:38] <Tom_itx> i've really had no problems with PN
[11:25:32] <JT-Shop> I always have problems with it
[11:26:06] <Tom_itx> i've done _most_ of my editing in linux though
[11:26:55] <Einar_> And on the PC (Win7) I can look at the file as hex. And there is no LF as far as I can see??? Are we chasing ghosts now?
[11:27:04] <tjtr33> Einar_, i just copied your pasted toolchanger.comp, changed one line to 'test' and the filename to test.comp, then ran 'comp --compile test.comp with no errors or warnings at all
[11:27:51] <tjtr33> I just ^A ^C copied what you pasted
[11:28:39] <tjtr33> ( this doesnt prove the file is ok, it proves the copy & paste is ok which might remove some M$ crud )
[11:29:09] <Tom_itx> copy & paste should add or remove nothing
[11:29:23] <tjtr33> you can do same, just copy & paste into gedit ( what i used )
[11:30:44] <Einar_> And it did also compile here with no problem. *As long as the source is in the toolchanger.comp file*. If the exact same source is in a file named boxfordatc.comp, it will not compile.
[11:31:19] <tjtr33> i said i renamed it to test and changed onel line from 'toolchanger' to 'test', can you achieve thta?
[11:31:40] <tjtr33> taht/thta/that dangit
[11:31:53] <PetefromTn> Hehe.
[11:32:21] <Tom_itx> good you used copy & paste huh?
[11:32:39] <tjtr33> ^A ^C is copy and paste
[11:33:09] <tjtr33> copy all then ^V
[11:33:09] <Einar_> Yes, I'll try to rename the file to see what happens. My old body just gets sore from the uncomfortable work position in the lathe. And no problems with typos. You can keep them. ;-)
[11:34:11] <tjtr33> you could make a system on a thumb drive and develope comfortable and test uncomfortably
[11:36:15] <Einar_> I bought a huge monitor for my laptop, not arrived yet. So will see if I can use VNC to Ubuntu. Will not try actually running LinuxCNC from here though.
[11:37:07] <tjtr33> outta my ken, i dev on a laptop and sneaker net sources to machine in warm basement
[11:37:25] <Einar_> Hopefully Ubuntu supports UltraVNC or something that I can run on Win7.
[11:37:58] <tjtr33> even further outta my experience ( windows baad , no use )
[11:38:18] <zeeshan> ubuntu is annoying!
[11:38:21] <Einar_> Hmm... I have an Axis network cam. Maybe I can do it all from here. <Ducking>
[11:38:32] <zeeshan> but once drivers are running right, its been running stable for the last couple of days
[11:38:44] <tjtr33> oh ok baad ubuntu
[11:43:38] <zeeshan> linuxcnc is soooooo good
[11:43:41] <Einar_Shop> Wow!!! Sure it supports it! I type this from my Win7 laptop using the window in my lathe!!
[11:43:41] <zeeshan> vs mach 3
[11:44:11] <Einar_> And in windows too.
[11:44:20] <PetefromTn> That's what I call getting into your work LOL.
[11:44:41] <zeeshan> lol
[11:44:54] <Einar_Shop> Much more comfy in my recliner than with the head stuck into the lathe. ;-)
[11:45:04] <zeeshan> now all you gotta do is setup a webcam feed
[11:45:17] <zeeshan> and setup a robot
[11:45:22] <PetefromTn> Yeah man we need to see this hehe
[11:45:24] <zeeshan> and you never have to do shit manually again!
[11:45:56] <zeeshan> einar did you just install the ultravnc package?
[11:45:57] <Einar_Shop> And get a dog that knows how to put in a rod in the chuck.
[11:46:14] <zeeshan> from uvnc.com?
[11:46:19] <PetefromTn> They make dogs like that??
[11:47:03] <Einar_Shop> No, UltraVNC have been on this machine for a while. Using it for other things.
[11:47:13] <zeeshan> im going to try it out
[11:47:57] <zeeshan> why is the uvnc site
[11:47:59] <zeeshan> full of ads
[11:50:58] <archivist> someone has to pay for your "free"
[11:51:11] <zeeshan> =D
[11:51:26] <PetefromTn> Free should be free
[11:51:41] <zeeshan> when people run those adware ads
[11:51:46] <zeeshan> i can't trust the software =/
[11:51:58] <zeeshan> i rather pay money then
[11:52:32] <archivist> I have no adverts on my sites and I am feeling the pain
[11:52:42] <zeeshan> ?
[11:52:52] <zeeshan> its like $15 bux a month to a host a site
[11:53:07] <zeeshan> and like 7$ to renew a domain a year
[11:53:21] <archivist> I wish that were trus
[11:53:25] <archivist> true
[11:53:36] <zeeshan> whats your monthly bandwidth?
[11:54:43] <archivist> I am hosting off my adsl
[11:54:47] <Tom_itx> host your own
[11:54:56] <zeeshan> thats too slow :P
[11:55:09] <archivist> you want me to pay more!
[11:55:17] <Tom_itx> mine is free
[11:55:22] <zeeshan> i just looked at my domain name
[11:55:24] <Tom_itx> other than the regular isp
[11:55:29] <zeeshan> it cost 9.51$ for the year canadian
[11:55:54] <Tom_itx> i'm not worried about a domain name
[11:56:04] <Tom_itx> just so i can post stuff others can view
[11:56:14] <zeeshan> photobucket :D
[11:56:17] <PetefromTn> Always wanted to make my own site. Like Radio free Pete or something LOL...
[11:56:39] <Tom_itx> i gotta use port 81 though because my isp blocks 80
[11:56:46] <archivist> photobucket just gives me a white screen it is terrible
[11:56:55] <zeeshan> use firefox? :P
[11:56:55] <Tom_itx> could use some other port i suppose
[11:56:58] <tjtr33> videobin.org pastebin.org imagebin.org free
[11:57:04] <skunkworks> I spend a bout $40 a year
[11:57:08] <PetefromTn> What PetefromTn is up to 24/7 hehehe
[11:57:10] <zeeshan> skunkworks: thats cheap
[11:57:20] <zeeshan> link to site?
[11:57:40] <skunkworks> heh - I use it just for testing and pictures...
[11:58:02] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/
[11:58:08] <Tom_itx> and now that _i think_ i got the router fixed it should be fairly quick
[11:58:10] <skunkworks> that was from college
[11:58:21] <zeeshan> loads up pretty quick
[11:58:22] <Einar_> Mine is $7 / month for web hotel. Free traffic, 1Gb storage.
[11:58:49] <zeeshan> yea webosting shouldnt cost more then 80bux a year including domain name
[11:58:50] <skunkworks> tons and tons of pictures http://electronicsam.com/images/
[11:58:59] <zeeshan> loads up really quick
[11:59:39] <skunkworks> I have not had too much problem with them - it is a subsidiary of hostdime.com
[12:00:07] <Tom_itx> i've even had the site on the linuxcnc install pc
[12:00:12] <Tom_itx> for testing
[12:02:43] <PetefromTn> The more I come here the more I realize I don't know squat about computers and internet and CNC LOL
[12:04:14] <R2E4_> I dont think it is seeing my cards now.
[12:05:31] <archivist> data section of one site is 35993416 . blocks
[12:06:03] <Tom_itx> skunkworks why does it ask for my name?
[12:06:08] <R2E4_> I changed the jumpwers on 7i77 and wi25 and supplied 5v to the 7i77, I only get yellow lites, when I try to start Lcnc It doesnt start and spits input-13 doesnt exist.
[12:06:45] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: it was a project for a javascript class.. Never changed it.
[12:07:25] <R2E4_> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.input-13 does not exist.
[12:07:59] <R2E4_> The cards do noit have the red lite now.
[12:08:56] <skunkworks> sounds like it isn't recognising the 7i77 now
[12:09:38] <pcw_home> no red light means no field power
[12:09:50] <R2E4_> yeah, I just added 5v to the 7i77. changed the jumpers on 7i77 and 5i25 and booted up.
[12:10:31] <pcw_home> you lost field power some how
[12:10:42] <R2E4_> will I ever get out of NEWBNIE phase?....aaarrggghhhh!@!!!
[12:11:05] <Jymmmm> Scotty... WE NEED DILITHIUM CRYSTALS!!!
[12:11:10] <R2E4_> I have a switch for dc poer.... sorry forthe bother.
[12:11:20] <R2E4_> I shut everything off and didnt apply cd power.
[12:11:23] <PetefromTn> They're overrated...
[12:12:02] <PetefromTn> This on your bridgie or your VMC40?
[12:12:40] <R2E4_> bridge.
[12:14:04] <R2E4_> I put a switch on the panel so I could shutoff dc power to the system. I may remove it when the retrofit is done...
[12:14:28] <archivist> took a while, why I dont use a cheap web service, my www folder 565,184 items, totalling 68.7 GB
[12:15:16] <Tom_itx> i've never totaled mine
[12:16:46] <archivist> isp and electricity charges are my real costs
[12:17:04] <R2E4_> I have an index on mytool changer magazine now.
[12:17:29] <PetefromTn> Sweet what did you end up using?
[12:17:48] <zeeshan> damn thatsw a lotta files
[12:19:57] <archivist> needs some pruning but that takes time
[12:20:08] <Tom_itx> i gave up on pruning
[12:20:35] <Tom_itx> i probably have as much content not visible as what is on the visible pages
[12:20:35] <Jymmmm> chainsawing?
[12:20:49] <skunkworks> the host claims unlimted.. but I don't know for sure. There is a bandwidth limit (35gb a month) I have used about 2gb so far
[12:21:06] <PetefromTn> Bushoggin?
[12:21:44] <R2E4_> a prox sensor, mounted on magazine base with a bracket on the turret itself.
[12:22:14] <PetefromTn> Aftermarket or stock?
[12:22:15] <Tom_itx> stuff like when things happen around here not worthy of a page: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hail/hail5.jpg
[12:23:03] <PetefromTn> Hmmmm. Red oak?
[12:23:04] <Jymmmm> Tom_itx: golf balls that expensive oyu have to make your own? ;)
[12:23:24] <Tom_itx> closer to raquetball
[12:23:29] <Tom_itx> not quite tennis ball
[12:23:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: lot of cracked windsields?
[12:23:52] <Tom_itx> any that were exposed
[12:23:58] <Jymmm> ewww
[12:24:00] <R2E4_> Off the shelf LM12-3004NA, nice units. Works great, high quality.
[12:24:17] <Tom_itx> that was a while back
[12:24:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: That's seriously fucked up, especially if you are driving on the highway in the midle of BFE
[12:24:40] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[12:25:08] <Jymmm> and you have a frickin BAGFULL of em
[12:25:18] <PetefromTn> We've had some like that here. Messed up tons of vehicles.
[12:25:56] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hail/hail2.jpg
[12:26:03] <Tom_itx> doesnt really show the size of em
[12:26:07] <Jymmm> How do you guys protect parked cars if theres' no carport/garage available?
[12:26:10] <Tom_itx> or all the branches / leaves
[12:26:19] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, you don't
[12:26:22] <Tom_itx> i have a garage
[12:26:38] <Jymmm> I'm thinking those in apartments, etc
[12:26:38] <Tom_itx> or park under a big tree and hope
[12:26:44] <Tom_itx> some have carports
[12:26:50] <Tom_itx> for tennants
[12:26:56] <Tom_itx> but not guests
[12:26:56] <Jymmm> foam?
[12:27:06] <PetefromTn> They have those portable garages for a couple hundred bucks..
[12:27:11] <Jymmm> styrafoam?
[12:27:15] <Tom_itx> tin
[12:27:44] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/ice/14.jpg
[12:27:54] <Jymmm> 1/4" plywood covered 1" styrafoam?
[12:27:56] <Tom_itx> another season
[12:28:07] <PetefromTn> This your meteorology pages Tom LOL?
[12:28:28] <Tom_itx> just showing some content that otherwise wouldn't be visible
[12:28:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: that's cool, got a hi res version?
[12:28:45] <PetefromTn> Still at the doctor's office still waiting :(
[12:28:46] <Tom_itx> i don't think so
[12:29:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: If you find it, let me know please =)
[12:29:18] <Tom_itx> that storm brought down alot of branches too
[12:29:29] <Tom_itx> Jymmm the ice?
[12:29:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Hi-red of this http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/ice/14.jpg
[12:29:55] <Jymmm> hi-res*
[12:30:10] <Tom_itx> i don't always keep those
[12:30:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No worries, but if you come across it, let me know.
[12:31:25] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/ice/12.jpg
[12:31:29] <Tom_itx> it was like that all over town
[12:31:50] <Tom_itx> that's ice, not snow
[12:32:16] <pcw_home> how does that happen? rain/freeze/rain freeze?
[12:32:46] <PetefromTn> Jack frost working overtime.
[12:32:46] <Tom_itx> more like pellets
[12:33:31] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:33:41] <PetefromTn> Hey ich
[12:34:24] <IchGuckLive> first gold in olympic for germany within the last 10minutes
[12:35:58] <PetefromTn> What sport?
[12:36:49] <zeeshan> canada will have the most medal ;d
[12:37:20] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: slide
[12:43:55] <R2E4_> white [positive, red negative. I hate it when they dothat.
[12:44:16] <PetefromTn> Huh really?
[12:45:53] <Jymmm> R2E4_: In what wackyworld is that doen in?
[12:46:00] <PetefromTn> The proxy sensors on my machine are all yellow wires believe it or not.
[12:56:36] <Einar_> R2E4_: Boxford machine? On mine they just reached for the nearest one when installing. Black is common, even when common is +12V.
[12:57:20] <Jymmm> positive ground is rare, but does exist.
[12:57:47] <Einar_> British machine.
[12:58:09] <Jymmm> Well, that can't spell COLOR anyway ;)
[12:58:17] <Jymmm> s/that/they/
[12:58:56] <Einar_> Joking. Negative from PSU's is to GND.
[13:00:25] <R2E4_> Einar_: no its a hitachi seiki vm40. They are using 12vd c, 24vdc and 100vac for switching. IT is all over the place.
[13:01:12] <Einar_> In a comp, can I declare a variable (the state variable) as pin out to make it visible?
[13:01:34] <pcw_home> is the 100 VAC really 100 VAC or is in 120V line?
[13:03:33] <JT-Shop> Einar_, you can use a pin in your code if that is what you mean
[13:04:19] <Einar_> Yes, that's what I mean. So I can use halscope to trace it.
[13:04:22] <IchGuckLive> i use in all mashines the commen 24V even in tehe small education mashines
[13:18:00] <R2E4_> no, it is really 100vac. from 208 to 100vac transformer.
[13:18:21] <R2E4_> The servo drives are taking 100VAC input for power.
[13:19:01] <R2E4_> not power, secondary voltage cause the servo drives taking 208
[13:20:11] <pcw_home> Ah ha. I have some Fanuc drives that have a 100VAC input and wondered if I could get away with 120VAC but maybe not...
[13:20:49] <R2E4_> I wouldnt chance that.\
[13:21:23] <R2E4_> all the contactors switch with 100vac, even the stickers say 100vac.
[13:21:50] <R2E4_> The solinoids are 100vac.
[13:22:06] <R2E4_> I never spell sol correctly....lol
[13:28:30] <R2E4_> Brakes on the axi's xyz, they usually tied together or controlled seperately?
[13:31:20] <JT-Shop> brakes on servos are released when the drive is in control
[13:32:32] <JT-Shop> except maybe a spindle brake on a lathe which is on until a m3/4
[13:36:13] <IchGuckLive> im of BYE
[13:36:56] <pcw_home> the 100 VAC is control power on the Fanuc drives (goes into a switching regulator that supplies +-15 +5 +24 and high side Hbridge power)
[13:38:00] <JT-Shop> how do you loose a 14" x 24" x 1/2" sheet of steel and one more that looks just like it?
[13:38:23] <skunkworks> heh
[13:38:29] <archivist> put it under something
[13:38:41] <skunkworks> or it is holding down something
[13:39:04] <PetefromTn> and hope it doesn't fall on your foot..
[13:39:39] <archivist> took me over a year to find a lid 10"x8"x4" :)
[13:40:27] <archivist> was under a cupboard behind some junk
[13:40:36] <archivist> in the wrong room
[13:41:18] <pcw_home> buy a new one, then you will find it
[13:41:31] <tjtr33> Einar, yes a dummy pin can be used like printf :)
[13:42:42] <tjtr33> Einar_, yes a dummy pin can be used like printf :)
[13:46:30] <JT-Shop> I just dug them out from under my work bench a month ago and put them somewhere where I could find them... well that didn't work
[13:48:03] <archivist> I had started making a wooden replacement lid but not finished it, now I can chuck that out
[13:49:44] <JT-Shop> heh, found them suckers
[13:49:54] <JT-Shop> under another work bench
[13:50:32] <PetefromTn> too many workbenches?
[13:50:54] <archivist> too many hiding places
[13:51:51] <archivist> getting the car through the annual test a week ago meant finding missing tools
[13:52:32] <archivist> and I think searching time was nearly as much as working on the car time
[13:52:53] <tjtr33> does anyone remember the Mazak fest machine, it had Fanuc drives & we ran them off wall mains iirc,
[13:52:54] <tjtr33> that might say if Fanuc 100V~ drives could handle 120V
[13:53:30] <PetefromTn> I wish I had a dime for every time I set something down while working and then tearing apart the shop to find it only to find it is hiding in plain sight.
[13:54:25] <skunkworks> I thought the fanuc drives where switched out to servodynamics or something liket hat
[13:54:36] <tjtr33> could be
[13:54:48] <skunkworks> I don't remember why
[13:54:49] <tjtr33> i remeber holding the fanuc drive frames
[13:55:25] <pcw_home> Type S drives? (open frame yellow plastic)
[13:55:48] <pcw_home> Blue Honda connectors
[13:56:24] <pcw_home> (I'm assuming these are new enough to be brushless)
[13:56:52] * JT-Shop moves them to the first place he looked for them
[13:58:08] * PetefromTn sympathizes with JTshop in losing things in plain sight hehehe
[13:58:20] <Jymmm> ...and will forget he did that in a month and will look everywhere else, but there.
[14:00:03] <Jymmm> For the record... HIPAA is a joke, sheep in wolves clothing
[14:00:09] <eric_unterhausen> I was in a hurry last week and left a positioning fixture under a shop rag -- could not find that thing
[14:08:21] <archivist> the churn of stuff to find x hides the rest of the alphabet causing a repeat churn through the same stuff later
[14:08:42] <CaptHindsight> eric_u_cnc: couldn't you just use another rag? :)
[14:10:28] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: the matsuura seems to be 100% operational.. Stupid machine! ;)
[14:10:50] <skunkworks> it still has some programs from the previous owner..
[14:10:57] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: which control did it come with?
[14:11:01] <skunkworks> yasnac
[14:11:21] <skunkworks> mx1
[14:11:28] <skunkworks> 80's tech
[14:11:54] <CaptHindsight> nice bargain, I come across lots of things that just need a small tweak, reset or self calibration to be 100% again
[14:12:30] <tjtr33> pcw_home, yelow fram blue honda cnx, thats the picture i recall
[14:12:48] <tjtr33> i got a couple here too
[14:12:54] <skunkworks> it has about 64k of program memory
[14:13:12] <skunkworks> (which is only half as much as the 90's fanuc machine at work...)
[14:13:27] <CaptHindsight> I have to pretty much completely rewire mine. The "automation" guy that worked on it didn't know much other than how to spend money
[14:13:34] <pcw_home> yeah thats S series (ones before A06B-6058 are analog)
[14:14:04] <eric_unterhausen> any recommendations on a small atx case?
[14:14:09] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: how was the conversion done with mach? step servo drives?
[14:15:33] <CaptHindsight> ac servos with new custom optical encoder discs
[14:15:45] <CaptHindsight> he had them made to fit into the original encoders
[14:17:09] <skunkworks> the manual says it is a 'dual processor control..'
[14:17:39] <pcw_home> Z80s or PC?
[14:17:58] <skunkworks> z80
[14:18:04] <pcw_home> CPM?
[14:18:06] <skunkworks> well - I assume z80..
[14:18:15] <skunkworks> no clue - have not found much info on it.
[14:18:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291072922333 if I get time I might pick this up
[14:18:51] <CaptHindsight> it has the wider X I need
[14:19:03] <eric_unterhausen> nice, come with tooling?
[14:19:31] <CaptHindsight> I didn't see any, but I have plenty
[14:19:43] <eric_unterhausen> they show pictures of it in the toolchanger
[14:20:05] <pcw_home> do you get the vices?
[14:20:57] <CaptHindsight> it's still up on fleabay
[14:21:45] <CaptHindsight> it's supposed to warm up later this week, I really don't feel like rigging when it's -3
[14:21:48] <eric_unterhausen> I would guess no vises
[14:21:52] <CaptHindsight> F
[14:22:11] <skunkworks> pcw_home: the stuff on the door - right
[14:22:11] <eric_unterhausen> ya F that
[14:22:13] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/292311
[14:22:34] <CaptHindsight> the Shars vises are only ~$350ea
[14:22:38] <eric_unterhausen> look at all that memory
[14:23:20] <eric_unterhausen> that's not the processor board, it's the memory board
[14:23:58] <pcw_home> Yeah RAM (maybe non-volatile) and ROM
[14:24:00] <skunkworks> it is all stacked together
[14:24:15] <skunkworks> that is the 'control'
[14:24:48] <eric_unterhausen> ya, but I was looking for one of the processors
[14:24:51] <CaptHindsight> what are the date codes on the chips? early 80's?
[14:24:56] <eric_unterhausen> might even have a 68000
[14:25:08] <pcw_home> 2KX8 CMOS RAMs probably
[14:25:08] <skunkworks> well - we have not pealed it apart.. (probably not going to :))
[14:25:25] <CaptHindsight> hey it works
[14:25:30] <eric_unterhausen> ya, probably not good idea if it's working
[14:25:35] <CaptHindsight> what did the seller think was wrong with it?
[14:26:06] <eric_unterhausen> seller thought it didn't work and couldn't get service IIRC
[14:26:25] <CaptHindsight> user error
[14:27:08] <eric_unterhausen> I once bought a scanner from the Penn State surplus store that had been to a repair store and returned non-repairable
[14:27:16] <eric_unterhausen> it had the shipping screws still in
[14:27:58] <eric_unterhausen> that was when they still cost $$$
[14:28:05] <pcw_home> well it was unrepairable because there was nothing wrong with it :-)
[14:28:21] <eric_unterhausen> true
[14:28:32] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: he was the middle man.. (got it at an auction) \
[14:28:40] <skunkworks> he had no clue
[14:28:52] <CaptHindsight> I just bought 2 Tek 1GHz scopes that just needed resets and self calibration for ~$100
[14:29:16] <skunkworks> it had issues - 2 open resistors on the y axis drive. (which is probably why it was sold) and some heater issues - tripping too low current
[14:29:26] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: still would have been worth it even if the controller was bad
[14:29:42] <skunkworks> well - we had assumed it was unusable...
[14:30:07] <eric_unterhausen> seems like an aftermarket control would be worth it for almost any shop
[14:30:10] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how many machines get sold for scrap that just need minor work?
[14:31:24] <eric_unterhausen> there are a lot of machines that are sold because they paid for themselves and it's easier to buy new
[14:31:26] <Tom_itx> open a cnc salvage yard for linuxcnc'ers
[14:31:35] <CaptHindsight> I might just get a second head for the 710 to rework with a >10K rpm spindle
[14:33:29] <eric_unterhausen> does the 710 have 2 spindles?
[14:33:45] <CaptHindsight> they were offered with 1 or 2
[14:34:44] <CaptHindsight> same for the 1000's
[14:36:22] <eric_unterhausen> makes for a complicated machine
[14:36:35] <eric_unterhausen> well, I gotta go lathe something for work
[14:36:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-Twin-Spindle-CNC-VMC-MC-1000V-DC-Y-324-/140810782163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c8fa05d3
[14:39:00] <CaptHindsight> I have to finish my 12mm x 12mm stage
[14:42:48] <eric_u_cnc> the 710 you linked appeared to have two spindles and two toolchangers
[14:43:05] <eric_u_cnc> you could swap out one for high speed and still have another spindle
[14:43:29] <eric_u_cnc> is there a rule of thumb for how big a vacuum line needs to be?
[14:44:03] <CaptHindsight> yeah, but i was considering using the two spindles on one part, X-axis hand off
[14:44:18] <Tom_itx> eric_u_cnc for part fixtures?
[14:45:01] <eric_u_cnc> ya, parts fixturing
[14:45:16] <Tom_itx> iirc we used 3/8 tube or so
[14:45:18] <CaptHindsight> my current 710v is a single spindle setup
[14:45:52] <eric_u_cnc> yeah, that's bigger than my plate
[14:46:08] <Tom_itx> if there are no leaks it probably doesn't have to be that big
[14:46:13] <eric_u_cnc> it has about a 1/4" line now
[14:46:17] <Tom_itx> use a neoprene seal
[14:46:21] <Tom_itx> should be ok
[14:46:42] <eric_u_cnc> that's weird, my alter ego just left the room :)
[14:48:26] <eric_u_cnc> I did manage to shove the part off the plate with the current setup
[14:48:33] <eric_u_cnc> but crazily enough, that was the goal
[14:49:32] <Tom_itx> use double back tape too
[14:50:02] <eric_u_cnc> my boss wants me to use wax
[14:50:17] <eric_u_cnc> i told him that would reduce me to tears
[14:50:43] <Tom_itx> don't use wax
[14:51:17] <CaptHindsight> wax to hold parts?
[14:52:18] <eric_u_cnc> wax works fine for holding parts
[14:52:26] <eric_u_cnc> unless it doesn't
[14:52:49] <CaptHindsight> a phase change adhesive would be nice
[14:52:53] <eric_u_cnc> but if you have a lot of surface area and not a lot of heat, it works great
[14:53:04] <CaptHindsight> for a flatbed router
[14:53:09] <eric_u_cnc> the wax I have is actually made for it
[14:54:03] <CaptHindsight> place the adhesive down and it's not even tacky, trigger it and it sticks, trigger it again and it's not
[14:57:16] <eric_u_cnc> wax isn't ideal, need pressure and a heat plate
[14:57:28] <eric_u_cnc> would be nice to have a water-cooled fixture
[14:58:08] <eric_u_cnc> I can see a lot of applications for it, we got it for something where there wasn't quite enough surface area for the springyness of the parts
[14:58:40] <eric_u_cnc> holding flat sheet material is a really good application
[14:59:37] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: damn that matsuura for 3500
[14:59:39] <zeeshan> is a good deal.
[14:59:45] <zeeshan> shit it even comes with 2 kurt vises
[14:59:45] <zeeshan> lol
[15:01:38] <CaptHindsight> the heads way a ton
[15:02:13] <CaptHindsight> that dual head version is ~8 tons
[15:04:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/102-x-32-y-MAZAK-SV25-CNC-VMC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/191061926610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7c2da2d2
[15:04:31] <CaptHindsight> I wonder what it will eventually sell for?
[15:04:55] <zeeshan> 38,000 lb
[15:04:56] <zeeshan> lol
[15:05:06] <zeeshan> its worth that in steel
[15:05:15] <CaptHindsight> I guess that rules out wooden floors
[15:05:20] <Tom_itx> yeah that's a big one
[15:05:43] <zeeshan> yea locally id get almost 4500 $
[15:05:45] <zeeshan> for that in scrap steel
[15:05:57] <Tom_itx> it would cost you that to move it
[15:06:13] <CaptHindsight> it's also a pain to move so I wonder if it will even top $10k
[15:06:13] <zeeshan> yea
[15:06:43] <CaptHindsight> I'd have to get it through customs
[15:07:31] <CaptHindsight> just a souvenir from the falls officer
[15:08:17] <Tom_itx> definitely wouldn't fit in the back of your pickup
[15:09:40] <postaL> :)
[15:09:54] <zeeshan> someone give me 2x1/2" flat bar
[15:09:56] <zeeshan> thx
[15:09:59] <zeeshan> need to finish motor mount
[15:10:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VMC-BRIDGEPORT-MODEL-308-CNC-8-POSITION-ATC-/161205854467?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item25889e2103
[15:10:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sharnoa-SDC-20-Tigre-4-Tiger-4-CNC-machining-center-/181301150531?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item2a36640343
[15:11:25] <CaptHindsight> never heard of Sharnoa
[15:12:01] <CaptHindsight> popular in the EU?
[15:20:05] <ChuangTzu_> i thought bridgeport was poop
[15:20:21] <zeeshan> why cant metal places be open on a sunday
[15:20:21] <zeeshan> ;[
[15:21:46] <eric_u_cnc> you've never heard the old saying, "doesn't know Sharnoa from Shinola"?
[15:24:31] <PetefromTn> That sharnoa looks just like a Leadwell..
[15:25:26] <CaptHindsight> my sharona?
[15:25:36] <PetefromTn> Actually looks like a clean an tidy machine...
[15:25:57] <PetefromTn> Oh is that yours?
[15:26:23] <PetefromTn> Ma-ma-ma mya sharona..
[15:28:49] <pcw_home> made in Israel
[15:29:02] <eric_unterhausen> well, not a very productive weekend, but now the door to my study closes and latches
[15:34:53] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/4OIAAMXQsOtRi79l/$T2eC16F,!%29EE9s2ufE9RBRi79l!e+g~~60_3.JPG ouch, how do you break a robot?
[15:35:07] <eric_unterhausen> drop?
[15:35:40] <eric_unterhausen> looks like a college? Penn State is famous for dropping lathes
[15:35:52] <Jymmm> You tel it you are going to erase it's memory if it doens't confess.
[15:35:59] <CaptHindsight> heh
[15:36:29] <CaptHindsight> eric_u_cnc: some hazing ritual?
[15:36:46] <eric_unterhausen> the people that live around here are morons
[15:36:58] <Jymmm> Penn stat can kiss my ass!
[15:37:13] <Jymmm> They sll you out to any bidder
[15:37:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seiko-SCARA-Robot-D-Tran-TT-8030-4-Axis-Damaged-Robotic-/291073892621?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c55b210d
[15:37:17] <Jymmm> sell*
[15:38:01] <Jymmm> You buy anything from them and your mailbox will get flooded for the next six months, then they sell ou to another company
[15:38:05] <CaptHindsight> you could weld it and recalibrate
[15:38:30] <eric_unterhausen> looks like an aluminum casting
[15:39:05] <Jymmm> two pat epoxy =)
[15:39:12] <Jymmm> crazy glue?
[15:39:33] <CaptHindsight> bondo and paint
[15:39:45] <Jymmm> 1/4" aluminum strips
[15:39:49] <Jymmm> or plate
[15:40:20] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: have you gotten any cold weather this year?
[15:40:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Some a few weeks ago
[15:40:45] <Tom_itx> what 55 deg??
[15:40:45] <CaptHindsight> <32F?
[15:40:46] <Tom_itx> :)
[15:41:33] <CaptHindsight> I think we are going to be above freezing by Wednesday
[15:41:50] <Jymmm> https://weatherspark.com/history/31616/2013/San-Jose-California-United-States
[15:42:39] <PetefromTn> Ouch that looks like an expensive break.
[15:42:43] <CaptHindsight> nope maybe next Monday :(
[15:43:24] <Tom_itx> Jymmm would they react the same as Atlanta if they got a sprinkling of snow too?
[15:44:07] <pcw_home> looks like they dropped it off a truck
[15:47:01] <eric_unterhausen> I dropped my robot off a truck, I must have caught some of the stupidity from living here
[15:47:40] <eric_unterhausen> of course, I bought it so cheap I didn't care
[15:47:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Ha... I had someone pass me on the street doing 60, in heavy rush hour traffic and heavy rain.
[15:48:44] <Jymmm> Ohm that robot... make an inner and outter sleeves for it.
[15:49:00] <Jymmm> that just slip into each other... good as new!
[15:49:15] <Tom_itx> maybe no clearance for that
[15:49:38] <pcw_home> pretty well tenderized
[15:51:28] <Jymmm> bastards... I've gotten them from unethical, infraction, violation, to misdemeanor! Now for felony, and then treason! Muhahahahaha
[15:55:52] <eric_unterhausen> that atlanta situation looked like something I wouldn't want to have to deal with
[15:56:05] <eric_unterhausen> of course, around here they would have been prepared
[15:58:28] <Tom_itx> we got 6" the other day and it was business as usual
[15:58:44] <eric_unterhausen> they still cancel school for that here
[15:58:56] <eric_unterhausen> unless it is going to be over by morning
[15:59:02] <eric_unterhausen> in which case they have 2 hour delays
[15:59:17] <Tom_itx> well a few things were closed but we didn't panic like they did
[15:59:27] <eric_unterhausen> there was good reason for them to panic
[15:59:30] <eric_unterhausen> they had no salt
[15:59:59] <postaL> has anyone had to change the io address of their parallel port?
[16:00:06] <eric_unterhausen> which is stupid, but stupid comes with the territory
[16:01:00] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure where we get our salt but there _is_ a big salt mine near here
[16:01:31] <eric_unterhausen> postaL, it what sense? I think the bios assigns the address
[16:01:56] <postaL> i'm trying to get linuxcnc on a old ibm thinkpad t40
[16:02:09] <postaL> when i try to assign it to EPP mode, i can't. It doesn't offer it as an option.
[16:02:14] <postaL> (using a docking station)
[16:02:23] <postaL> I found a forum post that someone said they had to change the io address
[16:02:24] <postaL> You must first change the IO address to 378, then you will be able to select EPP mode. I just had to figure this out myself so that I too could hook up to my Soundscape system in order to perform an on-location live event recording.
[16:02:43] <eric_unterhausen> that sounds like a bios thing
[16:02:51] <eric_unterhausen> and may not easily be available to you
[16:02:58] <postaL> yeah. the ibm thinkpad bios is basic.
[16:03:22] <eric_unterhausen> it's "user friendly" which means it's impossible to do anything in a user friendly manner
[16:08:08] <skunkworks> why are you thinking you need epp? you only really need it if you are doing epp communication. (for the most parta)
[16:08:35] <skunkworks> (and laptops don't usually make good machine controls...) Have you checked the latency
[16:17:40] <pcw_home> EPP mode is sometimes useful in that it makes all outputs push-pull
[16:17:42] <pcw_home> (otherwise some control outputs are open collector with a weak pullup)
[16:19:06] <pcw_home> (this affects the G54 0 for example which uses pin 16 to source current to the chargepump)
[16:34:16] <MrSunshine> my touchoff routine works a treat! =) except for some quirks but =)
[16:34:32] <MrSunshine> now i can do touchoff without having to go to the computer and do stuff 2 times =)
[16:40:14] <PetefromTn> Okay guys I finally got the cam work changes made to the part I screwed up on the other day and I am ready to try it again. Also have some ideas about setting my tool length offsets that may help with the issues I am having .
[16:40:45] <PetefromTn> Gotta stick this bar of 6061 in the bandsaw and cut off the same size piece I used the other day and we will give it a whirl here.
[16:41:19] <PetefromTn> Hoping my new tooling willl make things much easier not having to swap tools as well as maybe less to think about when I run the part.
[16:41:28] <Deejay> gn8
[16:41:43] <PetefromTn> gn8 deejay.
[16:41:56] <Deejay> good night pete
[16:42:07] <PetefromTn> MrSunshine: What exactly is your touch off routine?
[16:42:15] <PetefromTn> Deejay: ;)
[16:47:02] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, you still can't touch off a tool?
[16:47:48] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Well it depends on how I do it. sometimes I get multiplied offsets and not sure why just yet.
[16:48:24] <PetefromTn> I was thinking today I am gonna setup my new electronic edge finder in it's own holder and use that as my touch off tool 1
[16:49:00] <MrSunshine> PetefromTn, stolen one but edited to not have to change to MDI mode tab before doing Z touch off, and for having a remote button on the Z axis to execute the touchoff as i else need to run to the machine and hold stuff in place when touching off :P
[16:49:10] <MrSunshine> then returns to manual mode to be able to run etc =)
[16:49:34] <PetefromTn> Then I was gonna do my G59 move to the corner of my mill table and touch off the tool1 to the 123 block using some other coordinate system.
[16:50:00] <PetefromTn> Then touch off all the other tools to that same point in relation to the first and see if that works for a test program.
[16:51:42] <PetefromTn> I did also manage to get my son in law to create for me a very long cat5 cable with RF45 connectors on it so I can hookup the machine directly to my wireless router so that my pal Connor can remote link into the machine to see what he helped me do to the control setup without having to leave his wife from the comfort of his home LOL.
[16:52:38] <PetefromTn> I just need to fab up a nice little pigtail RF45 connector to the side of the pendant like I did my dual USB so I don't have to dismantle the pendant to plug in the Rf45.
[16:52:46] <JT-Shop> I've never touched off an edge finder to the tool table
[16:52:59] <PetefromTn> MrSunshine: care to share it? I could use it LOL.
[16:54:05] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: well this is one of those electronic ones that can sense in all directions so I can setup X,Y, and Z so it would work well for setting up the workpiece G54 offset and then just go ahead and start loading tools once the program starts.
[16:54:38] <MrSunshine> i guess i could put it up for you (my whole config in that case) and you have to figure out how to change it for your machine :P
[16:55:00] <MrSunshine> but tomorrow in that case so send me a msg if i do not remember it :P
[16:55:21] <MrSunshine> its only Z touch off i use it for
[16:55:23] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/292338 It is in the forefront of this picture.
[16:55:51] <PetefromTn> MrSunshine: Okay man if it is that specific I will just use what I got here thanks anyways.
[16:56:10] <MrSunshine> hehe ok =)
[16:58:22] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, in that case it should work well
[16:59:02] <JT-Shop> just don't forget to "load" the sensor tool before touch off
[16:59:15] <JT-Shop> did you revert back to 2.5?
[17:00:53] <PetefromTn> ya think so? When I had my RF45 I used the tormach tooling and they had a nice holder that looked like this... http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=31283
[17:02:02] <PetefromTn> It was very nice to be able to touch off to a certain depth point without a fixed tool to avoid crashing your touch off tool. But with care this will work in a similar fashion if I can get it setup correctly with the TLO's of the rest of the tools.
[17:03:04] <JT-Shop> it's really not complicated, you just have to follow the rules for touch off
[17:03:19] <PetefromTn> No I have not yet reverted the software. The verdict is still out about whether I need the macro option to control the toolchanger in the 2.6 master build release instead of the classic ladder becasue of the fact that the millhead needs to raise and lower to perform the toolchange.
[17:03:42] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Yeah it is NOT complicated but mine does not seem to work correctly for some reason.
[17:04:16] <PetefromTn> Apparently that is either difficult or impossible or something in Classic Ladder.
[17:04:31] <JT-Shop> well, you have a dated copy of master so anything can be wrong
[17:04:48] <JT-Shop> what is difficult or impossible?
[17:04:59] <PetefromTn> yeah I know, when we installed it was supposed to be the latest.
[17:05:15] <PetefromTn> well....raising and lowering the millhead during the toolchange.
[17:05:21] <JT-Shop> master changes daily and really should not be used
[17:05:59] <JT-Shop> I raise and lower my plasma torch head in 2.4
[17:06:02] <PetefromTn> yeah well like I said Connor and I decided to use it because of this particular feature in regards to the toolchanger.
[17:06:18] <PetefromTn> during a toolchange macro?
[17:06:36] <JT-Shop> LOL while it is running G code
[17:06:42] <JT-Shop> anytime I want
[17:06:52] <PetefromTn> smartass LOL.
[17:07:01] <JT-Shop> sorry
[17:07:26] <PetefromTn> I know exactly SQUAT about classic ladder and do not actually know if adding a Gcode to move the head up and down is doable or not.
[17:07:48] <PetefromTn> during the toolchange sequence.
[17:08:23] <PetefromTn> Honestly I don't understand why it would not be simple but have never programmed a PLC nor a classic ladder setup.
[17:09:10] <JT-Shop> do you have to move the spindle up and down during the tool change or just go to a predefined position?
[17:10:38] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSXR3FsN0EE
[17:11:19] <JT-Shop> ok, exactly the same as my 308
[17:11:52] <PetefromTn> That's Lee's Cincinatti Arrow 500 and it is running on linuxCNC. I have his config files here but he has some kinda spindle orient setup that will be different from mine.
[17:11:58] <JT-Shop> look at the last comment on that page
[17:12:13] <PetefromTn> hehe..
[17:12:23] <PetefromTn> Is your machine working under LinuxCNC?
[17:12:31] <JT-Shop> can you send me his configuration?
[17:12:57] <PetefromTn> I got it out on the VMC's computer but yeah I will he is a real nice guy and tried to help me.
[17:13:02] <JT-Shop> no, it still has the DX-32 control... I've been fighting the simodrive 611 for 2 years and finally whooped it
[17:13:20] <PetefromTn> I will see if I can find it and then send you the files.
[17:13:30] <PetefromTn> what is a simodrive?
[17:13:40] <JT-Shop> a Siemens drive
[17:14:02] <JT-Shop> they call it a "high performance" drive I call it a "high PIA drive"
[17:14:15] <JT-Shop> send it to jt at gnipsel dot com
[17:14:17] <PetefromTn> so everything is working from the factory setup so you don't want to retrofit yet.
[17:14:30] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn maybe you should git the master from the repository and update it
[17:14:37] <Tom_itx> it's not too difficult
[17:14:47] <PetefromTn> I watch that video of the toolchange and drool on my jeans..
[17:14:48] <JT-Shop> I just got it running to speed last week and want to change it to LinuxCNC as soon as I can
[17:14:50] <Jymmm> GIT ER DONE!!!
[17:14:57] <Tom_itx> then alot of your issues will probably go away
[17:15:02] <JT-Shop> I too have to sort out spindle orient
[17:15:13] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Would love to but I don't even know what a GIT is?
[17:15:36] <Tom_itx> it's a version manangement tool
[17:16:02] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: perhaps we can work together to get both of our machines running with toolchange somehow.
[17:16:23] <Tom_itx> i've got 3 versions installed
[17:16:35] <PetefromTn> I read that stuff and my eyeballs roll back in my head. I don't even know what compile means LOL.
[17:16:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: diff two, dev null the one
[17:17:27] <PetefromTn> Don't know what that means either hehe..
[17:18:03] <Tom_itx> care to learn?
[17:18:05] <PetefromTn> Sorry I am a computer dumbass.. I just know how to make things and I am not afraid to get into the electronics box. Built lots of machines and stuff over the years tho.
[17:18:14] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, the only thing from master that I know we need is orient and that is a component so it is copy, paste, install so long as it plays with 2.5
[17:18:23] <PetefromTn> sure but as you can tell I don't know jack shit.
[17:18:47] <JT-Shop> I knew less than jack shit when I started with then EMC
[17:19:01] <JT-Shop> took me years to just get Linux to install on a computer
[17:19:06] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Okay so what is this macro or whatever that is only in 2.6 that allows the millhead movement upon toolchange?
[17:19:28] <Jymmm> PetefromTn: Compile: Turns source code into machine executable program.
[17:19:36] <PetefromTn> I am willing to try to learn anything tho..
[17:19:58] <PetefromTn> oh okay. Is it difficult to do?
[17:20:14] <PetefromTn> I mean do you need to know programming language to accomplish this?
[17:20:30] <Jymmm> Not to compile, no.
[17:20:59] <Tom_itx> install git from teh package manager
[17:21:20] <JT-Shop> he would need much more help with git
[17:21:24] <PetefromTn> I don't remember the name of the feature that was needed which is why we went with 2.6 something like macro or M something..
[17:21:59] <PetefromTn> Like I said I got that nice brand new Cat5 cable to interface with the machines computer so I can have Connor link in to do stuff on the machine.
[17:21:59] <JT-Shop> remap
[17:22:07] <PetefromTn> Yeah that's it remap..
[17:23:07] <PetefromTn> If there is a way to revert back to 2.5.whatever and accomplish this millhead lift and lower during the toolchange macro using Classic Ladder that would probably be the preferrable option but I do not know enough about it.
[17:23:19] <Tom_itx> him doing stuff isn't teaching you much though
[17:24:02] <JT-Shop> agreed, you won't be able to fix it if you don't know how it works
[17:24:03] <PetefromTn> Cradek said he could see why I would need Remap for that but is there not other machines using classic ladder that need to raise and lower the millhead during toolchange. Lots of VMC's work this way...
[17:24:15] <Tom_itx> buy a man a fish or teach him how to fish...
[17:24:41] <JT-Shop> the guy in the video did it before remap
[17:24:47] <PetefromTn> Well I agree as well and I learn watching him, he does not just come over and do everything he tells me what he is doing and why.
[17:24:59] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Yeah I think so..
[17:25:17] <Tom_itx> so far i've found there are usually at least 2 different ways to do just about anything in linuxcnc
[17:25:25] <PetefromTn> at least..
[17:25:34] <Connor> Tom_itx: I am trying to show him some of the stuff.. and I have that guys scripts.. It works.. but they guy even says it's messy and not very good
[17:25:36] <JT-Shop> or more
[17:25:41] <Tom_itx> personally i'd save your configs and install 2.5.3
[17:25:51] <MrSunshine> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-NCStudio-CNC-3-4-Axis-Wireless-Handwheel-Manual-Pulse-Generator-MPG-Pendant-/171161089364?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item27d9fef554 anyone has experience with ehese pendants?
[17:26:15] <PetefromTn> Connor: can you send the scrips from Lee to JT so he can look at it. He has a similar machine setup.
[17:26:16] <JT-Shop> anyway the first position is simple the TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION in the ini can position the spindle for tool extraction
[17:26:37] <Connor> MrSunshine: The ones for NCStudio are not tested.. Avoid for now unless you want to try and get them to work yourself..
[17:26:49] <PetefromTn> yeah I am using G0 G53 Z0 to simulate that right now..
[17:27:14] <Connor> PetefromTn: I'll dig through my messages and see If I can dig them up..
[17:27:18] <MrSunshine> Connor, ok .. but these looks like the HB04 ones that there are drivers for for linuxcnc? =)
[17:27:24] <MrSunshine> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_XHC-HB04_Wireless_MPG_Pendant
[17:27:26] <PetefromTn> If not I can get them out of the machine I think.
[17:27:42] <Connor> MrSunshine: They say they're HB03's and not compatible..
[17:28:10] <MrSunshine> Connor, the one i posted ?
[17:28:15] <Connor> yes.
[17:28:21] <Connor> I just asked the seller about it.
[17:28:28] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn if you had a spare hdd that would be ideal, then you wouldn't have to worry about screwing up what you currently have
[17:28:30] <MrSunshine> hm
[17:28:35] <MrSunshine> wtf
[17:28:44] <MrSunshine> why do they look just the same :(
[17:28:56] <MrSunshine> the other ones that says "HB04" on them have a stupid "layout" on them
[17:29:05] <MrSunshine> "Macro 1" "Macro 2" ...
[17:29:09] <MrSunshine> i want the Z=0 etc :P
[17:29:34] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: I have a hard drive from my old laptop that I saved and put it inside one of those flash drive things I use it to backup stuff but not sure if that would work or not.
[17:30:04] <Connor> MrSunshine: YUP. Automation direct has the better layout..
[17:30:07] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Toolchanger working would be like some kinda elaborate erotic wet dream for me right now LOL.
[17:30:10] <Connor> but more $$
[17:31:29] <Connor> MrSunshine: Look mid way down.. This handwheel just work for [NCStudio] WEIHONG System!Can’t work with Mach3!
[17:31:40] <JT-Shop> I know the feeling, having the 308 running in top form has been a nightmare to a dream
[17:32:02] <PetefromTn> Does your toolchanger currently work?
[17:32:05] <JT-Shop> so when I look at his configuration I'll know what he did
[17:32:09] <JT-Shop> yes
[17:32:17] <MrSunshine> Connor, im using linuxcnc
[17:32:18] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop do the other machines work ok with the extra boost in the phase inverter?
[17:32:39] <PetefromTn> He said that it was crude but he also says that it has made THOUSANDS of toolchanges now and that was awhile ago..
[17:32:45] <Connor> I know. but, if it doesn't work with Mach3, I would be a little concerned with it working with LinuxCNC.
[17:32:54] <JT-Shop> actually the 20hp idler from North American Phase Converters is better balanced than using a regular motor
[17:33:10] <Tom_itx> purpose made?
[17:33:24] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I can run the whole shop from the new idler
[17:33:24] <PetefromTn> Man I don't miss that phase converter crap. Had problems with it.
[17:33:28] <Connor> JT-Shop: Looks like he used a bunch of G Code files..
[17:33:54] <JT-Shop> Connor, send them to me if you don't mind. I'd like to see what he did
[17:33:58] <Tom_itx> my friend had switches on the side of his he would flip depending on how many machines he had on at any given time
[17:33:59] <PetefromTn> Then how could he do it in Classic ladder with G-code I thought that was not possible.
[17:34:09] <Tom_itx> that's why i wondered
[17:34:15] <JT-Shop> I can't see more than two being needed, Up and Down
[17:34:17] <MrSunshine> so its the bad layout or no pendant at all then :/
[17:34:19] <Connor> He didn't use ladder.. He used G-code.
[17:34:26] <Connor> send me your email address
[17:34:38] <JT-Shop> jt at gnipsel dot com
[17:34:45] <Jymmm> That's fucked up... http://www.forwardprogressives.com/florida-ordinance-makes-illegal-homeless-use-blankets-protect-weather/
[17:34:52] <JT-Shop> how did he handle spindle orient?
[17:35:47] <PetefromTn> He has some kinda mating mechanism that fires into the spindle pulley or something that orients it exactly after the VFD does what it can.
[17:35:54] <zeeshan> any of you guys have issues with your machines going all wacky
[17:35:58] <zeeshan> when you're tig welding near by?
[17:36:04] <zeeshan> especially aluminum?
[17:36:17] <JT-Shop> I see it as go to tool change position, orient spindle, ladder to move changer out, move spindle up, ladder to rotate turret, move spindle down, ladder to retract turret
[17:36:18] <zeeshan> i moved my computer downstairs to the garage and ran the software while welding
[17:36:26] <zeeshan> steppers went all crazy
[17:36:31] <MrSunshine> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Version-Wireless-Electronic-Handwheel-MPG-USB-Mach3-CNC-Milling-Machine-/171119143682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d77eeb02 so i guess its that one then ... i could make my own "decals" to put on it .. =)
[17:36:41] <JT-Shop> bad ground zeeshan
[17:36:55] <zeeshan> i am not using shielded wire
[17:36:57] <zeeshan> maybe i should
[17:36:57] <zeeshan> :)
[17:37:01] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mpgs/wireless-mpg-handwheel-for-mach3-controller
[17:37:18] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: yeah but add to that confirmation of all the switches extend and retract, tool present sensor, etc. etc..
[17:38:02] <Connor> you should have the emails. JT
[17:38:09] <JT-Shop> yea, that is handled in classicladder
[17:38:10] <JT-Shop> I
[17:38:10] <tjtr33> does the term orient, when it means 'turn to a given angle' come from orient as in the east, or facing mecca?
[17:38:17] <PetefromTn> It is just a series of careful safeguards after each movement. IE not only the ram reached the other side but the opposite side shows it is not there.
[17:38:18] <tjtr33> wow marian webnster sez yes
[17:38:21] <JT-Shop> I'm looking at them now Connor
[17:38:36] <MrSunshine> Connor, i wonder what the diff from the chinese ones are ? just the face of the buttons? =)
[17:38:50] <Connor> Probably firmware
[17:39:18] <Connor> might not be a HID version too.. could be serial.. who knows..
[17:39:44] <JT-Shop> tjtr33, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/orient.9.html
[17:40:34] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, "Full Definition of ORIENT 1 a : to cause to face or point toward the east; "
[17:41:08] <Jymmm> tjtr33: But the Orient is closer to the WEST
[17:41:23] <tjtr33> depends where you were when the word was invented
[17:41:57] <andypugh> PetefromTn: There are lots of ways to do tool-changing, from all G-code routines, to classic ladder, to custom HAL components.
[17:41:58] <tjtr33> the other similar word i like is 'reference' more desciptive than 'home'
[17:42:03] <andypugh> Or any mix of the above.
[17:42:25] <Tom_itx> orient could be built into your toolchange command to stop the spindle at a certain encoder count
[17:42:32] <PetefromTn> andypugh: Yeah but can you do the if/then kind of stuff with G-code?
[17:42:43] <andypugh> Absolutely.
[17:42:50] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: that is what is gonna need to happen.
[17:42:55] <Tom_itx> or set your spindel index at that very point to make it even simpler
[17:42:59] <andypugh> O100 IF [#1 LT 100] ....
[17:43:23] <Tom_itx> so you can stop on index every time
[17:43:32] <PetefromTn> What keeps classic ladder from using a G-code movement in the sequence?
[17:44:15] <andypugh> Classic laddder only understands numbers, and G-code is words?
[17:44:55] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: sounds good to me man... I am sure i could setup the wheel to index to a certain point once I found it and adjust from there until it hits the right spot.
[17:45:17] <Tom_itx> would simplify that part of it
[17:47:18] <PetefromTn> I still need to fab up the encoder mount so I can even try it. Also there was some issue with the encoder I am using as in it needs some kinda special board to interface with the 7i77 or something.
[17:47:36] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, is your turret one that turns one increment at a time?
[17:47:53] <PetefromTn> I have a drawing of it already started now that I have some toolholders I can probably build it now.
[17:48:00] <zeeshan> you guys were talking about wireless pendants earlier
[17:48:01] <PetefromTn> it has a geneva mechanism.
[17:48:11] <zeeshan> anyone whos used one.. did you notice an increase in jitter?
[17:48:15] <PetefromTn> Spins both directions.
[17:48:30] <JT-Shop> mine only spins one way
[17:48:43] <JT-Shop> like an indexer table
[17:49:16] <PetefromTn> The original control setup you had to move it to position one and tell the machine it was there before it would work so there must not be an input for home position.
[17:49:37] <tjtr33> geneva gears are cool old school way to handle atc's, only a tool 1 sensor and a counter are needed
[17:50:05] <JT-Shop> can you add a target and a prox for tool 1 position?
[17:50:22] <PetefromTn> sure could if necessary.
[17:50:34] <JT-Shop> be a way to home the turret
[17:51:02] <andypugh> PetefromTn: So, your turret indexes one way or the other based on a logic pin value?
[17:51:06] <JT-Shop> ok, I think mine is a geneva drive as well
[17:51:38] <tjtr33> you could put holes in the carousel and make a binary encoder like the mazak did, then tool 1 sensor not needed ( you got sensors for every pod )
[17:51:45] <PetefromTn> andypugh: I suppose but it asks you to reference it before the control will startup so you are in essence giving it the home position.
[17:52:18] <JT-Shop> mine spins the turret one time during homing and "finds" out where it is
[17:52:25] <PetefromTn> tjtr33: Honestly I want to do as little to the machine as possible to make it work of course.
[17:52:27] <andypugh> So, add a prox, then run a G-code routine that pulses the index pin until it sees the prox.
[17:52:54] <tjtr33> yep ^^^ then its 'referenced'
[17:52:56] <andypugh> Then a second G-code routine can move to the selected tool position.
[17:53:35] <tjtr33> ? mcodes yes?
[17:53:36] <PetefromTn> andypugh: this is assuming we accomplish toolchange in G-code alone?
[17:53:38] <andypugh> (Depending on your LinuxCNC version you might be able to use #<_tool> as a G-code parameter that returns the tool number.
[17:53:49] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:54:15] <andypugh> It isn't the way I would do it, but it might work for you if you know G-code and don't know ladder or C.
[17:54:56] <JT-Shop> andypugh, would you write a comp to do tool change with this type of machine?
[17:55:17] <andypugh> Yes, I would write a comp, because I know C and I don't know ladder :-)
[17:55:29] <PetefromTn> what is a comp?
[17:55:48] <Tom_itx> a lower level routine for the same thing
[17:55:50] <JT-Shop> a HAL component
[17:55:52] <andypugh> A custom HAL component
[17:56:35] <JT-Shop> andypugh, what would you do to raise and lower the spindle during tool change?
[17:57:04] <PetefromTn> the MOST important thing is the safeties that ensure switches are made before a movement can be accomplished to ensure we don't rip the friggin' toolchanger off the side of the machine.
[17:57:16] <andypugh> You can specify a tool-change position in the INI file, that might well be enough.
[17:57:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop would that be a G28 Z0 move?
[17:57:30] <Tom_itx> it's not likely gonna be above that
[17:58:09] <PetefromTn> actually the tool change pisition is below and the head raises up above the cat40 shank
[17:58:13] <tjtr33> (like the torch height control, hal would have a pid that would get a fixed position to move to, then issue 'i'm done' for Zhigh, similar for Zlo )
[17:58:19] <JT-Shop> the spindle has to be at one position then the turret moves out, then the spindle moves up, then the turret moves then the spindle moves back down
[17:58:49] <JT-Shop> then the turret retracts
[17:58:53] <Tom_itx> yeah i've seen it dozens of times but never thought through the steps
[17:59:07] <Tom_itx> the okumas used an arm
[17:59:15] <Tom_itx> the rest had carousels
[18:00:14] <PetefromTn> yeah head comes to tool change position, then ram fires umbrella into position under the millhead capturing the tool in the claws, then the power drawbar fires releasing the tool. millhead raises, then the carousel rotates to the next tool, then the millhead comes back down, power drawbar releases, then the ram pulls the umbrella away from the millhead.
[18:00:16] <andypugh> PetefromTn: This is someone else's toolchanger comp. It is pretty complicated, but basically defines the HAL pins that are needed at the top, then has a "state machine" lower down. The system can only move from one state to another when conditions are met. So, if you look, it stays in case 0: unless there is a tool-change request or a carousel jog request etc.
[18:00:17] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/5786/toolchanger.comp
[18:01:12] <Connor> Holy heck.
[18:01:36] <tjtr33> the state machine is a good idea, like arceye's but i put watchdog timers on each state as safety
[18:02:00] <andypugh> Connor: It's pretty simple coding, he just has a lot of states.
[18:02:09] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:02:12] <MrSunshine> hmm how the heck do i send a message to a seller on ebay?
[18:02:16] <Connor> Yea.. I don't think we need that many states.
[18:02:19] <zeeshan> MrSunshine:
[18:02:20] <MrSunshine> cant find any contact seller or anything
[18:02:24] <zeeshan> its there
[18:02:28] <zeeshan> frigging hidden.
[18:02:34] <Connor> MrSunshine: You asking that guy about the MPG ?
[18:02:35] <MrSunshine> searched for it but cant find it then eitehr?
[18:02:42] <zeeshan> the way i get to is i click the seller's feedback link
[18:02:50] <MrSunshine> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-Mach3-MPG-Pendant-Handwheel-for-CNC-Mac-Mach-3-4-axis-Wholesale-Price-/270977551854?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3f17854dee
[18:02:50] <zeeshan> and on the very right side there is a "ask a seller question"
[18:02:52] <MrSunshine> found that one
[18:03:02] <PetefromTn> tjtr33: yeah man the timers are very important as are the switch control states.
[18:03:08] <zeeshan> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=cablebrowser&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560&rt=nc&iid=270977551854&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
[18:03:09] <zeeshan> go there
[18:03:14] <zeeshan> on the right.. it says "Contact member"
[18:03:27] <Connor> The response I got from the other one.. Dear friend,
[18:03:27] <Connor> This model is XHC-HB03, which just can work with NCStudio .
[18:03:27] <Connor> The model XHC-HB04 only can work with Mach3.
[18:03:43] <MrSunshine> Connor, from the other one ?
[18:03:45] <zeeshan> have you guys found usb mpgs?
[18:03:50] <zeeshan> non wireless
[18:03:52] <Connor> Yea.. the on you linked to before.
[18:04:00] <tjtr33> PetefromTn, i have a std PLC for Heidenhain i wrote with 6 kinds of atc's configurable. I never wrote anything that was fool proof, they are too damn clever ;)
[18:04:16] <MrSunshine> this one says that its for Mach3 but i want to send a massage and make sure it actualy will look like in the picture and that its a HB04 :P
[18:04:42] <MrSunshine> Connor, that was the one saying NCStudio right ?
[18:04:42] <Connor> Where you located?
[18:04:49] <Connor> MrSunshine: Correct.
[18:04:59] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handwheel-USB-MPG-Pendant-LHB04-for-CNC-Mac-Mach-3-4-Axis-Engraving-Rou-gi-/251424302420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8a0e6554
[18:05:01] <Connor> Wired one.
[18:05:18] <zeeshan> very nice. exactly what i was looking for
[18:05:37] <Connor> 16 button version http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3-Axis-4-axis-USB-HandWheel-MPG-pendant-for-Mach-3-engraving-Router-system-/171194705426?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dbffe612
[18:05:43] <zeeshan> might be a pain to get it to work with linuxcnc though
[18:05:44] <MrSunshine> Connor, me ? sweden if it was me you asked :P
[18:05:44] <Connor> with better button
[18:06:04] <Connor> zeeshan: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_XHC-HB04_Wireless_MPG_Pendant
[18:06:13] <zeeshan> haha
[18:06:19] <PetefromTn> tjtr33: sounds interesting.
[18:06:22] <Connor> MrSunshine: Okay, because it listed GBP instead of US $$
[18:06:26] <MrSunshine> zeeshan, why not use wireless? =)
[18:06:33] <MrSunshine> Connor, yeah .. dont know why it does that =)
[18:06:33] <zeeshan> it will increase jitter on my machine
[18:06:34] <zeeshan> i guarantee you
[18:06:47] <zeeshan> i had to get rid of the wireless card
[18:06:56] <MrSunshine> Connor, i think its cause im on "cablebrowsers UK store"
[18:07:16] <Connor> Ah
[18:07:45] <JT-Shop> in any case PetefromTn we have similar tool changers
[18:07:45] <MrSunshine> zeeshan, hmm ok ... well i guess it will increase some jitter but in my case i use 12khz of the 25khz permitted step frequency so ive got some "jitter to spare" :P
[18:07:53] <Tom_itx> andypugh his pocket must not need to match the tool number
[18:08:04] <zeeshan> whats wrong with wire? :D
[18:08:14] <Connor> USB caused the gitter.. not wireless.
[18:08:18] <Connor> both are USB based.
[18:08:20] <zeeshan> no
[18:08:23] <Tom_itx> andypugh, do you know if it was a belt drive or such?
[18:08:25] <zeeshan> i had a pci wireless card.
[18:08:28] <MrSunshine> zeeshan, wires ... wires tangle in everything ... they are in the way etc :P
[18:08:29] <zeeshan> it gave 25khz jitter
[18:08:50] <zeeshan> now im using an ethernet connected to a router
[18:08:51] <tjtr33> often tools are not in a pod with same number, nc tracks which tool is in which pod after it messes with 'em
[18:08:53] <Connor> It wasn't wireless.. it was something with the card then..
[18:08:55] <zeeshan> which acts like a bridge
[18:09:11] <zeeshan> connor, try the wireless pendant and tell me how your jitter changes
[18:09:12] <Connor> Wireless itself wouldn't do it.
[18:09:14] <zeeshan> then i will buy it ;)
[18:09:20] <JT-Shop> tjtr33, in our case the tool number and pocket number match
[18:09:31] <tjtr33> tahts the smart way :)
[18:10:10] <tjtr33> car 54 report to garage 54
[18:10:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop does yours deposit the tool in it's holder then locate the new tool?
[18:10:22] <Tom_itx> no prefetch
[18:10:32] <Tom_itx> would be simpler to program
[18:11:07] <JT-Shop> just like the vid that PetefromTn posted a bit ago but fewer tools
[18:11:16] <Tom_itx> i missed that i guess
[18:12:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSXR3FsN0EE
[18:13:31] <tjtr33> oh a shuttling carousel, thats one of the types
[18:13:47] <skunkworks> zeeshan: are you using the printer port?
[18:13:53] <PetefromTn> umbrella type toolchanger.
[18:14:02] <Tom_itx> yeah looks like our carousels
[18:14:03] <tjtr33> nice work PetefromTn
[18:14:10] <andypugh> Mr sunshine "Ask a Question" is now right at the very bottom of the listing.
[18:14:13] <zeeshan> skunkworks: for the BOB?
[18:14:13] <PetefromTn> huh?
[18:14:14] <zeeshan> yes
[18:14:39] <PetefromTn> thats not mine just the same exact machine. I wish mine worked to toolchange LOL.
[18:15:48] <JT-Shop> I'll do some testing using my BP to see what I can come up with
[18:16:18] <andypugh> MrSunshine: Did you see my reply about eBay?
[18:16:24] <Tom_itx> what sort of motor is on the carousel?
[18:16:51] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_drive
[18:17:47] <Tom_itx> iirc anonimas1 built one for one of his machines
[18:17:55] <Connor____> On my ipad now.
[18:17:57] <Tom_itx> mabye he has code for it
[18:18:02] <skunkworks> that is what is on ours.. (first time I have seen one in person) http://youtu.be/kwnIIWTb7U8
[18:18:06] <tjtr33> them swiss is clever , roller follows cross cam
[18:18:10] <skunkworks> (you can hear it..)
[18:19:20] <PetefromTn> HELLO CONNORIPAD!
[18:19:24] <tjtr33> wow shuttling carousel chain with Zhi Zlo
[18:19:51] <JT-Shop> click, click, click
[18:19:58] <Connor_iPad> Ouch. That hurt my ears PetefromTn
[18:20:01] <JT-Shop> I take a nap during tool changes
[18:20:44] <PetefromTn> honestly if I had a working toolchanger that took five minutes at this point I would be happy as a pig in shit LOL.
[18:20:48] <tjtr33> haha, wanna see a slow atc? image 4 meter of X travel witha rack atc and max speed of 1meter/min ( big ass sink edm )
[18:22:51] <skunkworks> heh - our k&t is only 60 tools.. But you can pre-fetch them/.
[18:23:11] <JT-Shop> I hear you PetefromTn I'm setting up my BP to simulate what we need
[18:23:35] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: re-mapping?
[18:24:05] <skunkworks> or some sort of fancy comp that disconnects the z axis and controls it?
[18:24:29] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: That sounds great man... I need to go out there and take inventory of all the signals in the toolchanger setup.
[18:24:31] <tjtr33> i thought CL, so this will be interestin
[18:25:49] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you might wanna ask anonimasu
[18:25:50] <JT-Shop> skunkworks, no
[18:26:05] <Tom_itx> i think he built a changer for one of his cncs
[18:26:26] <JT-Shop> well installing orient went well, now to mess with that a bit
[18:26:39] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop in 2.5.3?
[18:26:42] <Connor_iPad> I was going to do remap. Because when I got around to building my ATC I was going to use remap for it too.
[18:26:49] <tjtr33> skunkworks, iirc i just switched to another pid, gave it positions, and made dang sure i was back inposition before returning from mcode to gcode ( else JERK )
[18:27:11] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, sure
[18:27:28] <Tom_itx> are you compiling it from source?
[18:27:41] <JT-Shop> no, you just install a comp
[18:27:48] <Tom_itx> ahh
[18:27:54] <JT-Shop> sudo comp --install nameofcomp.comp
[18:28:04] <Tom_itx> that was my next q
[18:28:06] <Tom_itx> :)
[18:28:37] <Tom_itx> are comp files c?
[18:28:57] <Tom_itx> or can they be python or something else
[18:28:58] <tjtr33> a language like c (if .comp ) or real c ( if .c )
[18:29:04] <Tom_itx> k
[18:29:25] <JT-Shop> c
[18:29:27] <Tom_itx> 'interpreted c' ?
[18:29:49] <JT-Shop> comp builds the component from the .comp file
[18:30:18] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: so you are saying you are going to try to build a structure around which we can add in the inputs and outputs to test a toolchange macro on your existing machine that does not have a toolchanger?
[18:30:20] <tjtr33> ltrue out put from .comp is .c ( in middle of building the .ko )
[18:30:33] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, exactly
[18:30:38] <andypugh> Tom_itx: comp uses some clever python to make a file in C that is compiled into a module.
[18:30:48] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Carry on man CARRY ON!! LOL.
[18:30:49] <andypugh> Kernel modules have to be compiled from C.
[18:30:59] <JT-Shop> once you can orient the spindle and move Z the rest is a piece of pie
[18:31:28] <andypugh> Yes, moving the Z from outside of G-code is the interesting part.
[18:31:32] <PetefromTn> that is what I was hoping because just getting the spindle orient to be working consistently and accurately will be a job for me.
[18:32:29] <andypugh> One option is to put an "offset" comp between the Z-command and the PID input: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/offset.9.html
[18:32:37] <tjtr33> look at JMK's example of moving X&Y about Z using since & cosine generator
[18:33:22] <andypugh> That does rely on the system putting the Z into a fixed, known, position at the beginning of the tool change sequence, but that is just a bit of INI config.
[18:33:51] <PetefromTn> I suppose once we have a road to hoe about how to accomplish the thing the next question I have would be is it possible to slow things down adequately and go step by step thru the sequence to verify and test it to ensure it is working properly?
[18:33:57] <JT-Shop> yep
[18:34:29] <tjtr33> external button? haha hardware stepping of a PLC
[18:34:37] <skunkworks> I have used the offset comp for temp comp for tool length (through a limit3 iirc)
[18:34:40] <MrSunshine> andypugh, hmm on what? =)
[18:34:57] <JT-Shop> darn orient relies on a motion pin that is not in 2.5
[18:35:59] <tjtr33> which pin?
[18:36:06] <PetefromTn> maybe that is why Lee setup that solenoid orient thing to ensure the spindle was correctly positioned..
[18:36:23] <JT-Shop> well more than a pin
[18:36:48] <JT-Shop> This component is designed to support a spindle orientation PID loop by providing a command value, and fit with the motion spindle-orient support pins to support the M19 code.
[18:36:50] <Connor_iPad> Again. Was a reason I went with 2.6. I did my homework. :)
[18:37:27] <JT-Shop> yes, master is required for orient... but get Pete updated to the latest
[18:37:30] <PetefromTn> Connor: I have no issue with 2.6 as long as I can make it work and get the bugs out.
[18:37:45] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn you wanna update to 2.6 master?
[18:38:15] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, if you use the buildbot master you get updates automagiclly
[18:38:18] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Dunno I want to do whatever is necessary to make the machine work reliably whatever that entails.
[18:38:21] <Connor_iPad> I'm going to show him how after he gets his Ethernet plugged up.
[18:38:41] <Connor_iPad> I used buildbot.
[18:38:42] <JT-Shop> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dev.html
[18:38:55] <JT-Shop> that's what I have on this computer
[18:39:06] <PetefromTn> Connor: I dunno if you read earlier but I got my son in law to make me a very long cat5 cable with Rj45 connectors to go to the machine.
[18:39:33] <JT-Shop> I'll switch my BP to buildbot master and work on this
[18:40:28] <PetefromTn> Got it here now just need to either temporarily open the pendant enclosure and plug it directly into the main board plug or get some kind pigtail socket and create a permanent outlet for it in the side of the enclosure for good.
[18:40:36] <tjtr33> plz if a doc is for something only work with blah, plz state blah is rqd in the docs
[18:40:52] <JT-Shop> but first a tune http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUDtFdnn9oQ
[18:41:11] <tjtr33> honk honk!
[18:41:12] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn: Good deal. Premis or patch cable?
[18:41:22] <JT-Shop> it is understood that master is not backwards compatible
[18:41:40] <PetefromTn> dunno what the difference is, it is the blue wire like a fat phone chord.
[18:41:46] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:42:16] <tjtr33> good call JT-Shop
[18:42:23] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: What the hell kinda music is that man... jeez you need something better to work on this by hehe.
[18:42:36] <JT-Shop> folk music
[18:42:50] <tjtr33> this guitar kills fascists!
[18:42:58] <Tom_itx> ole pharts
[18:43:22] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Is there any way I can help you and we can work together on it? Understanding my lack of knowledge but I can give you my information about my machine maybe it will help you.
[18:43:28] <JT-Shop> perhaps you prefer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJUuDoRZpyU
[18:43:43] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop this pc has no sound anyway :)
[18:44:02] <JT-Shop> I just need to work out the basic framework and it will work for both of us
[18:44:04] <PetefromTn> Oh much better man
[18:44:28] <PetefromTn> even tho our machines probably have different inputs and switches?
[18:44:28] <Connor_iPad> Sorry. Not paying attention. You making a component ?
[18:44:51] <JT-Shop> my wife though I was a good ole country boy before she married me then one day she got behind me in traffic and saw my bumper sticker on my truck
[18:45:13] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, yes the I/O is trival
[18:45:50] <PetefromTn> I still need to determine what kind motor the ATC carousel has on it. I removed the covers but there is another cover on the motor itself.
[18:45:51] <JT-Shop> Connor_iPad, yes I assume the final outcome will be a component
[18:46:23] <Connor_iPad> I'm betting it's a 24v DC
[18:46:26] * JT-Shop never saw that video before
[18:46:55] <JT-Shop> no one is wondering what my bumper sticker said?
[18:47:06] <PetefromTn> Is there a page in linuxCNC that will show the toolchanger setup and what tools are where or is it just the tool table?
[18:47:10] <Connor_iPad> What does it say?
[18:47:51] <JT-Shop> that was my 81' Chevy and it said I (symbol of a heart) Pink Floyd
[18:48:26] <Tom_itx> saw a laser show featuring them once
[18:48:36] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, yes http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/tooledit.html
[18:48:40] <PetefromTn> probably something like http://tapes.brianchartrand.com/web/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/guaterica_04-05.1100525400.deadhead.gif
[18:48:50] <JT-Shop> dinner time guys
[18:49:36] <PetefromTn> Enjoy man. Please if you need anything about my machine let me know and I would like to chat with you about it at some convenient time.
[18:51:40] <postaL> anyone in here running a fireball v90?
[18:52:36] <andypugh> postaL: Probably not, but you might still get a useful answer to a questio.
[18:53:00] <postaL> I finally got mine setup :) I've had it for over a year... but having a kid takes a lot of time :(
[18:58:27] <Connor_iPad> jdh has or had one.
[18:59:47] <andypugh> Time I was asleep. See ye all next time.
[18:59:56] <PetefromTn> cya andy
[19:03:07] <postaL> i'm really excited to get started with it :)
[19:03:42] <Connor_iPad> What kind do stuff you planning to so with it.
[19:32:03] <Connor___> .
[19:39:50] <skunkworks> motion.motion-inpos is your friend
[19:40:45] <postaL> Connor_iPhone: I'm doing beta cuts of Multirotor Frames before I send them off to production
[19:41:08] <postaL> just need to get it setup to scale properly
[19:41:16] <postaL> Will try to work on that a bit once the kid goes to sleep
[19:43:32] <PetefromTn_> Damn man I was hoping the new way to set offsets for my tools would work but it does not seem to be.
[19:43:56] <Tom_itx> you got somethin else goin on
[19:44:05] <Tom_itx> i fear
[19:44:19] <Connor_iPhone> We just need to upgrade your build.
[19:44:36] <Connor_iPhone> And make sure my mods didn't mess anything up.
[19:45:00] <Tom_itx> you gonna walk him thru it?
[19:45:16] <PetefromTn_> I just went out there and homed the machine, then I went MDI G59 xoyo which brings my table over to the tool touch off position I set.
[19:45:42] <PetefromTn_> then I went T1 M6 G43 H1 which asks for the tool1 touch off tool I put into the tool table.
[19:46:21] <PetefromTn_> Then I jogged it down and touched off on the 123 block and set G59 Z0 and then touch off to tool table hoping it would show a zero offset.
[19:46:35] <Connor_iPhone> I'll just remote in and remove my mods first.
[19:46:56] <PetefromTn_> It still shows a -700 something offset which is what the distance from the home switch is I guess.
[19:47:43] <PetefromTn_> Am I doing something wrong here? What would need to happen to set the tool offset for the first tool to zero?
[19:48:22] <PetefromTn_> Connor_iPhone: Which mods are you talking about not the MPG stuff etc?
[19:48:22] <Tom_itx> set the fixture offset with it
[19:48:34] <Tom_itx> and both should be zero
[19:48:34] <PetefromTn_> I thought that is what I did?
[19:48:52] <Connor_iPhone> No. The one that mucks around with inch and mm on startup.
[19:49:41] <PetefromTn_> like I said I went G59 Go xo Yo to take the table to that touch off point and then brought the head down to the touch off point and set the G59 offset to zero atop the 123 block. Then I touched off again to the tool table .
[19:49:53] <PetefromTn_> Connor_iPhone: okay sounds good man.
[19:53:22] <PetefromTn_> Did I not set the offset correctly?
[19:54:52] <PetefromTn_> Got a line on a used ER32 collet wrench from a guy in Knoxville since the place I ordered the toolholders from was out of stock on the wrenches. Gotta call him in the AM and meet him sometime tomorrow. So at least I will have to right wrench to tighten them hehe.
[19:55:48] <Tom_itx> why are you using the G59 offset?
[19:57:08] <PetefromTn_> no particular reason just to keep the lower number for fixture offsets for parts I guess.
[19:57:23] <Tom_itx> it is also a fixture offset
[19:57:46] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G54-G59_3
[19:57:53] <PetefromTn_> I know. Does that preclude me from using it for my tool touch off index?
[20:04:17] <PetefromTn_> anyone know how to turn off the update manager in ubuntu so I don't have to see it all the time every time I start up the machine>
[20:04:51] <jdh> don't turn it off.
[20:05:04] <Tom_itx> you can
[20:05:08] <Tom_itx> but i wouldn't
[20:05:22] <jdh> I meant don't turn off the machine
[20:06:38] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't like to leave stuff running in the shop when I am not there and that included computers on machines.
[20:06:55] <Tom_itx> System -> Administration -> Update manager -> Settings
[20:07:34] <Tom_itx> -> Updates
[20:07:50] <Tom_itx> uncheck
[20:10:06] <PetefromTn_> It already was unchecked but it still loads the manager each time I start the machine..
[20:12:32] <PetefromTn_> Playing with the machine now still cannot get the tool 1 offset to be zero..
[20:28:18] <Guest76580> nick jt-couch
[20:30:31] <PetefromTn_> http://www.chibots.org/files/file.pdf
[20:31:01] <PetefromTn_> This is pretty much what I am wanting to do and the reason why I am using G59.3 offset to set tools.. Just not sure if I am doing it correctly.
[20:37:51] <postaL> when setting your home position on the Z axis, do you want that at the top of your material, or on the bottom?
[20:38:19] <Tom_itx> i set mine above it
[20:38:35] <Tom_itx> you wouldn't want it set to the bottom
[20:38:35] <postaL> thanks
[20:38:44] <PetefromTn_> home position for me is at the top of the column..
[20:38:45] <postaL> sorry for the lame question, it's the first time i'm setting one of these up
[20:38:51] <Tom_itx> np
[20:39:01] <Tom_itx> i use a safe distance above the material
[20:39:05] <Tom_itx> others do it differently
[20:39:06] <PetefromTn_> if you are asking for the G54 offset for the workpiece then it depends..
[20:39:13] <Tom_itx> i adjust my cad acordingly
[20:39:23] <postaL> i'm mostly going to be cuttin G10
[20:39:40] <postaL> maybe some wood now and then
[20:40:17] <PetefromTn_> does not really matter the material you are cutting.
[20:41:23] <PetefromTn_> Just set the G59.3 offset like in that article to the back right hand corner of the table for X and Y.
[20:41:47] <PetefromTn_> Then I jogged the head down with tool1 active and set the G59.3 Z to zero touched off atop the 123 block.
[20:41:58] * postaL needs to learn G codes
[20:42:23] <PetefromTn_> Then I selected touch off again to tool table and the number is still -700 something.. Why can't I get it to be zero?
[20:42:33] <PetefromTn_> postaL: me too man LOL.
[20:43:18] <Connor_iPhone> You may need to clear all your tables and try it fro
[20:43:21] <Connor_iPhone> Fto
[20:43:26] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ could it be that the offset is from machine Z zero and that is the distance from there to the touchoff point?
[20:43:29] <Connor_iPhone> From scratch.
[20:43:31] <Tom_itx> from the top down
[20:43:44] <Tom_itx> Connor_iPhone he's already done that
[20:43:45] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx: yeah I think that is what it is, WHY?
[20:43:54] <Tom_itx> because that's how lcnc does it
[20:44:19] <PetefromTn_> Connor I only have one tool in the table but I will delete it and start over if necessary it is easy to do. standby I will delete it..
[20:44:54] <Connor_iPhone> Not talking about that. Talking about all the G54 tables.
[20:45:33] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ NONE of my H offsets are zero
[20:45:54] <PetefromTn_> what does G54 have to do with it. I will delete it too my workpiece is all finished for now gotta start over anywyas.
[20:46:05] <cradek> tool fixture coordinate system is g59.3
[20:46:08] <cradek> you keep saying g59
[20:46:39] <PetefromTn_> cradek: It is G59.3... I just set zero on G59.3 after reading that article.
[20:46:59] <PetefromTn_> does it matter what my G54 offset is?
[20:47:18] <cradek> no
[20:48:10] <PetefromTn_> Okay then I just set G59.3 to the position I will eventually mount a table mounted tool probe and set the x and Y. Then I lowered the milllhead down with the active tool 1 in there and set the Z atop the 123 block.
[20:48:37] <PetefromTn_> Then I left it where it was and selected touch off to tool table and the offset recorded is -789 something...
[20:48:48] <PetefromTn_> it should be zero correct for the first tool?
[20:49:14] <cradek> not if you set the fixture's coordinate using a -798 inch long tool
[20:49:36] <cradek> if you want it to be zero when you touch off the tool, use a zero length tool to locate the fixture
[20:50:31] <PetefromTn_> I think that is what I am trying to do I have an electronic edge finder that I intend to use to touch off my workpiece and use it with tool1 active when I do it so I am setting up this tool to be tool one...
[20:50:50] <cradek> ok doesn't matter what it is, that sounds like a good thing to call length zero
[20:51:05] <PetefromTn_> I want the rest of the tools to be relative to this tool.
[20:51:25] <cradek> so clear your tool length offset (g49), touch the fixture, select Z, poke touch off, set Z of G59.3 to be 0
[20:51:37] <PetefromTn_> when I touch off to tool table I do not put anything in the window it says zero so
[20:52:09] <cradek> hang on, I'm not convinced you've located your fixture yet
[20:52:17] <cradek> you're not touching off to tool table yet
[20:53:14] <PetefromTn_> okay I can jog off and goto MDI and type in G59.3 G0X0Y0 and it goes right back to the location.
[20:53:35] <cradek> wait
[20:53:54] <cradek> did you do that with no tool length offset applied?
[20:54:21] <PetefromTn_> not sure..
[20:54:36] <cradek> did you understand what I said, and why it's important?
[20:55:02] <Tom_itx> cradek gonna be in the 60's here this week
[20:55:35] <cradek> if you locate your fixture with a -798 inch tool, and the touch off that same tool, of course it's going to be -798 inches again!
[20:56:01] <PetefromTn_> perhaps that is what I am doing wrong here...
[20:56:07] <cradek> yes I think this is what you are doing and you're expecting a 0 to appear somehow
[20:56:30] <cradek> if you want the tool to measure 0, clear its length so it's 0, and use it to locate your fixture
[20:56:58] <Tom_itx> cradek if he's setting length offsets with the tool table open, will it update or does he need to save and refresh it?
[20:57:14] <Tom_itx> i leave mine closed when setting tols
[20:57:16] <Tom_itx> tools
[20:57:38] <cradek> linuxcnc rewrites the tool table when you touch off a tool
[20:57:39] <PetefromTn_> okay how do I do that already just deleted the tools from the tool table and added T1 P1 and the added information nothing else and saved it.
[20:57:52] <cradek> if you then save your old copy over top of it, you'll have screwed yourself
[20:57:59] <Tom_itx> but does the displayed file get updated?
[20:58:08] <cradek> depends what's displaying it I suppose
[20:58:19] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx: I am not using the tool editor in linuxCNC which was giving me problems I am editing in Gedit.
[20:58:23] <Tom_itx> i assume the axis interface
[20:59:09] <PetefromTn_> how do you save old copy over top of it I am just editing the file directly because doing it in LinuxCNC was giving me problems..
[20:59:40] <PetefromTn_> I swear maybe I need to make a damn video of what I am doing so you guys can see it or something feeling really stupid right now.
[20:59:41] <cradek> is this tool table editor problem in the bug tracker?
[20:59:43] <Tom_itx> the copy you edit is buffered until you save it
[21:00:34] <PetefromTn_> I guess basically if I do not open the tool editor right after homing I cannot open it at all....
[21:01:01] <Tom_itx> you need a newer master
[21:01:31] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't call it a bug until you're using current software or stable software
[21:01:38] <Connor_iPhone> As soon as he gets his cable hooked up.
[21:01:48] <cradek> oh you haven't updated yet?
[21:01:51] <Tom_itx> you could walk him through git
[21:01:56] <cradek> or downdated
[21:01:59] <Tom_itx> no
[21:02:17] <Tom_itx> just going in circles presently
[21:02:22] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I know but I still need to use the machine in the mean time to make parts
[21:02:46] <PetefromTn_> this is getting really frustrating.
[21:02:49] <Tom_itx> you should be able to pull master and run 2 copies
[21:03:00] <Tom_itx> save master in a directory by itself
[21:03:19] <Tom_itx> it should see your configs
[21:04:01] <Tom_itx> are you running 10.04?
[21:04:11] <PetefromTn_> Okay just deleted the tool table and ensured it was indeed deleted. Did an t1 m6 g43 h1 and it said there was no tool 1 in the table so I KNOW it is deleted.
[21:04:12] <Connor_iPhone> Yes. He is.
[21:04:55] <PetefromTn_> Then I edited the tool table in Gedit to show tool one only and saved and did it again now it asks to load tool one which I did and there is a zero TLO right now.
[21:05:27] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna jog down to the 123 block and select G59.3 and touch off.
[21:05:40] <PetefromTn_> Then I will select touch off to table and see what happens.
[21:05:42] <Tom_itx> then it will be -700 something
[21:05:50] <PetefromTn_> why?
[21:05:58] <Tom_itx> try it
[21:06:07] <PetefromTn_> explain why?
[21:06:12] <Tom_itx> i told you
[21:06:24] <Tom_itx> it reads the offset from absolute Z0
[21:06:43] <cradek> wait
[21:06:50] <cradek> Tom_itx: WHAT will be -700?
[21:07:04] <Tom_itx> let him set it and you will see
[21:07:12] <Tom_itx> his length offset
[21:07:18] <PetefromTn_> http://www.chibots.org/files/file.pdf
[21:07:19] <cradek> no
[21:07:32] <PetefromTn_> Again this is what I want to accomplish here so we all understand each other..
[21:08:47] <PetefromTn_> hey I think it worked..
[21:10:01] <PetefromTn_> I just went down to the 123 block, went to MDI and selected G59.3 and touch off at zero.
[21:10:14] <PetefromTn_> Then I selected touch off again and tool table and left it at zero
[21:10:38] <PetefromTn_> on the bottom of the screen it says t1 offset 0 diameter 0..
[21:10:53] <PetefromTn_> tool table does not show a z number tho perhaps it is because it is zero?
[21:11:16] <cradek> jog up a bit (pretend the tool got longer) and you should get a small positive tool length
[21:11:37] <PetefromTn_> you mean jog up again and retouch the tool correct?
[21:11:41] <cradek> yes
[21:12:16] <PetefromTn_> yup it did change..
[21:12:28] <PetefromTn_> tool table reflects the change once you hit update..
[21:12:49] <cradek> do you understand what you were doing wrong before?
[21:13:02] <PetefromTn_> So basically what I was doing wrong here all this time is that the tool MUST not have an offset in it at all?
[21:13:32] <PetefromTn_> Before I was using G59 or whatever because I did not think it mattered..
[21:14:01] <PetefromTn_> So if I keep this tool set as tool1 and use its offset to reference the rest of the tools when I touch them off it should work okay right.
[21:14:09] <cradek> well in general, anytime you're locating a fixture with a tool, you have to load an appropriate tool offset first
[21:14:18] <cradek> you just weren't doing that
[21:14:20] <PetefromTn_> I did that tho..
[21:14:38] <PetefromTn_> it was not G59.3
[21:14:41] <cradek> no, you loaded a crazyass tool offset, and used that to locate the fixture crazyassedly
[21:14:49] <cradek> that's a new word
[21:15:23] <PetefromTn_> All I know is that now I can delete the tools and start over with a zero offset on tool 1 and then I can load more tools relative to that tool.
[21:15:36] <cradek> you don't have to delete tools
[21:15:37] <PetefromTn_> As long as I am in G59.3
[21:15:43] <PetefromTn_> Already did.
[21:15:45] <cradek> you now have your fixture located properly
[21:16:06] <cradek> you don't have to be in g59.3 to measure a tool, as long as you have "tool touch off to fixture" selected
[21:16:16] <PetefromTn_> Okay I set G59 to be the same X and Y position previously how can I delete those offsets?
[21:16:37] <cradek> machine / zero offset / G59
[21:17:05] <cradek> or you can do it with G10
[21:17:39] <PetefromTn_> Okay I see that you can select which one to zero.
[21:18:06] <PetefromTn_> I think we are finally getting somewhere here man thank you so much for helping me I was about to push this bastard out into the street...
[21:19:04] <PetefromTn_> sorry it took me so long..
[21:19:07] <Tom_itx> take notes for repeatability
[21:19:42] <PetefromTn_> I am going to do it again now because I just changed the offset to test it by jogging up and rezeroing.
[21:19:42] <Tom_itx> it's not how i do it but if it works i'm all for it
[21:20:39] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx: Like I said if your read that article that is how Haas and Fadal machines do it and I want to use a touch off tool like I did on my RF45 so I just touch off with the same tool and then hit go and load the first tool.
[21:21:28] <cradek> just jog back down and touch off to tool table again
[21:22:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what I am doing..
[21:22:37] <PetefromTn_> Then I can jog up and load the next tools into the tool table and goto MDI and grab the tool and touch off again...
[21:22:52] <cradek> yep
[21:23:58] <Connor_iPhone> So, this has nothing to do with the version he's using?
[21:24:10] <PetefromTn_> Okay guys this has helped me a ton..
[21:24:52] <PetefromTn_> I guess I won't know until I try to run a program with tools saved to the table the right way here.
[21:25:19] <Tom_itx> use a chunk of wood the first time
[21:26:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know.. Honestly I just slow everything down to a crawl usually when i run something I am not sure of that way if it does something I was not expecting I just stop it and you can see the distance to go etc..
[21:33:39] <PetefromTn_> okay just touched off the next tool offset was 15.2 or something which sounds about right so I think it is working.
[21:43:08] <Tom_itx> you used method 2 in the pdf?
[21:44:38] <PetefromTn_> yes trying to anyways,
[21:45:15] <Tom_itx> what's the signifigance of G59.3?
[21:45:49] <cradek> Tom_itx: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G10-L11
[21:45:57] <Tom_itx> it's still a fixture offset
[21:46:01] <Tom_itx> last one
[21:47:55] <Tom_itx> you have to use the zero'd tool to set the other fixture offsets then?
[21:51:17] <PetefromTn_> honestly not sure if you do as long as you touch off with the tool that is active it should not matter but not sure and I intend to use the same tool to touch off to my work most of the time anyways.
[21:52:11] <PetefromTn_> Okay got all the tools loaded for this part and now I am gonna try to do a dummy run by setting G54 with the tool 1 on top of a 123 block somewhere on top of my vise and then load a different tool and see what the zero looks like.
[21:52:52] <Tom_itx> in the machine menu, what method was selected?
[21:53:36] <PetefromTn_> touch off to fixture... gonna leave it there for good apparently.
[21:55:28] <Connor_iPhone> Cool
[21:57:39] <PetefromTn_> Okay just loaded tool 1 and set G54 Zo.
[21:58:06] <PetefromTn_> Then raised head loaded tool 2 and went to MDI and did T2 M6 G43 H2 and enter.
[21:58:41] <PetefromTn_> Then slowed feedrate to a crawl and did an MDI G54 Go Zo after ensuring that T2 was the active tool and hit enter.
[21:58:53] <PetefromTn_> Tool went exactly to the top of the 123 block.
[21:58:55] <PetefromTn_> Awesome...
[21:59:46] <cradek> I approve of your methodical tests
[22:01:14] <Jymmm> ...and this message. Paid for by cradek for congress
[22:01:21] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to be methodical man I just need to understand how to run this thing I actually have some paying work ready for it here. I again want to publicly thank Connor, Tom Cradek, everyone who helped me with this and especially you Cradek for helping me find what the hell I was doing wrong.
[22:01:41] <cradek> no problem, glad you've got it now
[22:01:54] <cradek> sounds like it's making sense
[22:02:21] <PetefromTn_> It looks like it is working the way I thought it should anyways. Got tired of running parts tool by tool and having to cut up the code into pieces for it.
[22:07:03] <PetefromTn_> Just did it again with tool 23 and it is sitting perfectly atop the 123 block...NICE!!
[22:09:16] <PetefromTn_> Beautiful LOL...Looks Like it is working guys. I am so pleased now maybe I can get some damn parts machined hehe
[22:11:08] <Connor_iPhone> Good deal PetefromTn_
[22:12:50] <PetefromTn_> Connor_iPhone: thanks so much for your help man... Could not have done it at all without you buddy.
[22:14:55] <Connor_iPhone> No problem.
[22:15:21] <PetefromTn_> Now if I can just figure out this toolchanger we willl be cookin' hehe...
[22:16:18] <PetefromTn_> Damn when that compressor comes on at night and I am alone here in the shop it scares the piss outta me LOL..
[22:16:22] <Connor_iPhone> Yup. Find out what that motor is.
[22:16:57] <PetefromTn_> I will... Gotta climb up there and remove the secondary cover.
[22:18:19] <PetefromTn_> My wife has been sick for the last couple days has had some crazy high blood pressure readings which is NOT normal for her. took her to the hospital earlier. Gonna play with the machine some more here and then head to bed got parts to machine tomorrow LOL....Hopefully I won't screw the big oen up again this time.
[22:18:38] <PetefromTn_> one.
[22:19:11] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say that Cat40 fixture I machined awhile ago on the VMC has come in real handy for the tooling setups.
[22:19:44] <Connor_iPhone> What are you making anyway ?
[22:19:59] <jdh> smaller pieces of metal.
[22:20:46] <PetefromTn_> Remember those wheels I made awhile back I showed you? Something like that only a new design that a fellow asked for.
[22:21:12] <PetefromTn_> It also has a custom mounting system that is pretty cool.
[22:21:23] <Connor_iPhone> For the scope ?
[22:21:40] <PetefromTn_> If I can just make these accurately I am gonna be making more for sure.
[22:21:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah.
[22:22:23] <PetefromTn_> I also have some drawings here from another fellow that wants me to bid some parts for him that is in another arena entirely. Did some work for him awhile back..
[22:23:45] <Connor_iPhone> Cool.
[22:23:48] <PetefromTn_> I also need to wrap my head around cutter comp and the CamBam files I am using. I want to be able to tweak to perfection here the machine is making some damn good cuts already...
[22:24:33] <R2E4_> allo.
[22:25:11] <PetefromTn_> hey R2d2..
[22:25:25] <R2E4_> hey Pete
[22:25:33] <R2E4_> This sensor is driving me bonkers!!
[22:25:57] <PetefromTn_> do tell..
[22:26:16] <R2E4_> ITs bizarre. I have it connected with pullup.
[22:26:19] <eric_unterhausen> I think he meant, "how would you tell ?"
[22:26:22] <R2E4_> shows active in hal
[22:26:50] <PetefromTn_> Aw shit I just ran out of kerosene for my shop heater and I can feel it getting colder in here now...
[22:27:07] <eric_unterhausen> dot's no good
[22:27:13] <R2E4_> When my plate passes it, sometimes it works and sometimes it dont.\
[22:27:22] <PetefromTn_> eric_unterhausen: No actually I mean do tell as in Why don't you tell me about it maybe I can help or at least sympathize...LOL
[22:27:34] <eric_unterhausen> u are ruining the joke, but thanks
[22:27:38] <PetefromTn_> Whats your clearance>
[22:27:43] <R2E4_> I see the lite gooneverytime on the sensor
[22:28:01] <PetefromTn_> eric_unterhausen: Love you too buddy..
[22:29:04] <R2E4_> oops, I see the lite go on every time. Clearance is good or else the lite would not go on. The lite on the sensor that is. Only thing I can figure, it holds dc in the sensor and doesnt have time to release. I dont know.\
[22:29:14] <PetefromTn_> do you know what the factory clearance rating is for the sensor?
[22:29:24] <R2E4_> 4mm
[22:29:43] <jdh> threshold levels and/or hysterisis?
[22:30:05] <R2E4_> jdh. Are you speaking english? lol
[22:30:12] <eric_unterhausen> it would be a little painful if the light was different from the output
[22:30:49] <R2E4_> Its too fast to check with digital meter.
[22:30:51] <PetefromTn_> are you using the setup PCW was talking about yesterday on the output?
[22:31:11] <R2E4_> yes, pullup resistor.
[22:31:58] <eric_unterhausen> what pullup resistor value?
[22:32:07] <jdh> got a scope?
[22:32:17] <R2E4_> I am seeing 13vdc all the time. cant read how far down it goes, cause the meter is not fast enough. IF I tape metal on it, it does go to 2vdc
[22:32:17] <PetefromTn_> how fast is the sensor needing to read it we talking high RPM?
[22:32:39] <R2E4_> The lite is on for about .5 seconds\
[22:32:51] <R2E4_> Scope is at work
[22:33:54] <PetefromTn_> This is for the toolchanger right? what does the sensor read again?
[22:34:05] <eric_unterhausen> and you are using it to drive a Mesa input?
[22:34:25] <R2E4_> yes, input onthe 7i77\
[22:34:41] <R2E4_> It is for tool changer index.
[22:34:44] <PetefromTn_> I'm gonna be doing the same thing here soon
[22:35:02] <PetefromTn_> for position one or spindle indexing?
[22:35:19] <R2E4_> spindle index
[22:36:22] <R2E4_> Theres about 16 sensors I have to do on the tool changer. This is a new one andis12vdc NPN. The others are 24vdc NPN
[22:37:01] <PetefromTn_> I know Pete was saying that you could not rely on them above a certain RPM but to setup the machine to slow to a certain speed before trying to read it. I am sure you are just testing now tho so no spindle running or are you?
[22:37:19] <R2E4_> Hydraulic pump on these things. They suppose to be running all the time or only when you need them?
[22:37:46] <R2E4_> no, the spindle is not running.\
[22:39:08] <R2E4_> IT is not turning fast at all, and the sensor is on for about .5 seconds so it should be working.
[22:39:17] <zeeshan> anyone seen any r8 automatic too lchanger
[22:39:19] <zeeshan> s
[22:40:22] <eric_unterhausen> R2, what's your field voltage at the mesa?
[22:40:34] <R2E4_> the digital fluke flashes everytime it passes.
[22:40:41] <R2E4_> 12v
[22:41:10] <eric_unterhausen> how are you going to deal with the 24v?
[22:41:12] <PetefromTn_> I thought it has to be 24v?
[22:41:26] <R2E4_> So it is getting to it, I am thinking the sensor is not fast enough. Never gets below threshold.\
[22:41:49] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTUwMFgxNTAw/z/r60AAOxyRhBSp-wD/$_57.JPG nema0.5 stepper?
[22:41:52] <eric_unterhausen> you are using halscope?
[22:42:02] <R2E4_> The new sensor is 12vdc. The existing sensors are 24vdc. I have a 7i84 with 24vdc field voltage
[22:42:24] <CaptHindsight> only 6mm dia, nema0.25
[22:42:57] <R2E4_> I am using the HAL configuration display. HAve never used the hal scope so I dont know how it works yet.
[22:43:01] <PetefromTn_> Actually the manual says 8-32vdc field input.
[22:44:01] <eric_unterhausen> R2, you can get your display to toggle using a switch?
[22:44:22] <R2E4_> yeah, I have a 7i77 at 12vdc and a 7i84 at 24. pcw says they have a card you can split the voltage in groups. PArt of the inputs 12v and anopther part 24.
[22:44:29] <R2E4_> Thats cool, but I would mix it up...lol
[22:45:06] <R2E4_> If I tape a piece of metal in front of the sensor, it toggles ion the hal config.
[22:45:37] <R2E4_> guess there comes a time where one must figure out how the hal scope works....hehe
[22:46:05] <eric_unterhausen> I am wondering if the display is the problem
[22:46:41] <R2E4_> The refresh?
[22:47:16] <R2E4_> This amber monochrome crt monitor works fantastic......lol
[22:47:28] <PetefromTn_> hehehe seriously?
[22:47:56] <eric_unterhausen> ya, refresh might be missiong it
[22:48:26] <R2E4_> 60hz
[22:48:42] <jdh> route the pin to an encoder input and set it as a counter
[22:49:28] <PetefromTn_> this is hilarious... http://slightlyviral.com/beware-sugarless-gummy-bears-on-amazon-com/ just a public service message hehe
[22:50:11] <R2E4_> in HAL or rewire temp?
[22:50:19] <jdh> in HAL
[22:51:37] <jdh> route it to phase A of an encoder and set counter-mode true
[22:52:06] <R2E4_> I lack the knowledge at this point to do that. I read up onhow to dothat.
[22:52:54] <PetefromTn_> Should be able to just look at the signal in Halscope if you can see it there it should be fine I would think.
[22:53:00] <uw> halo
[22:53:11] <jdh> yeah
[22:53:40] <R2E4_> I dont think it has timetoget to the threshhold.
[22:53:54] <uw> where is a cheap place to get cheap plastics like 1" thick lexan or delran
[22:54:04] <R2E4_> Will halscope show me the voltage it drops to?
[22:54:32] <eric_unterhausen> some of those inputs have an analog value, but in general, no
[22:54:40] <PetefromTn_> 1" thick lexan or delrin won't be too cheap man hehe..
[22:54:55] <jdh> how big?
[22:55:11] <jdh> I got some 1" thick acrylic off ebay
[22:55:26] <PetefromTn_> Onlinemetals sells plastics I thought.
[22:55:39] <PetefromTn_> http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=181&step=2&top_cat=181
[22:55:45] <uw> I'm looking for a piece about 10" square
[22:56:24] <uw> checking out taht place now...
[22:56:35] <jdh> that would be some pricey delrin
[22:56:49] <eric_unterhausen> hpde cheaper
[22:56:51] <PetefromTn_> Their site is decent and I have only been able to beat their prices locally by a few bucks at best most times.
[22:56:55] <uw> yikes $1200
[22:56:58] <uw> hmm
[22:57:09] <eric_unterhausen> i saw 167 for 12x12
[22:57:14] <eric_unterhausen> where you getting 1200?
[22:57:16] <uw> maybe i'm looking for a scrap piece or something
[22:57:19] <eric_unterhausen> for polycarbonate
[22:57:35] <PetefromTn_> The UHMW is reasonable in that thickness.
[22:57:43] <uw> the first one i clicked on was Acetell fiber filled
[22:57:52] <CaptHindsight> what plastic and what size?
[22:57:54] <eric_unterhausen> lexan is polycarbonate
[22:58:18] <CaptHindsight> 1/2 x 12 x 12?
[22:58:18] <jdh> which is unlike delrin... would HDPE not suffice?
[22:58:33] <Jymmm> uw: fo what purpose?
[22:58:36] <CaptHindsight> what properties?
[22:59:10] <eric_unterhausen> hpde 25 bucks
[22:59:13] <uw> Jymmm, i have polaris snowmobile that i broke the track drive this weekend and I can not find replacement drive for it
[22:59:38] <eric_unterhausen> so throwing rocks would be cheaper than throwing lexan
[22:59:44] <Jymmm> uw: abd 1" thick plastic wil fix it?
[22:59:47] <PetefromTn_> You mean the tracks themselves..
[22:59:47] <Jymmm> and*
[22:59:48] <R2E4_> I see the pulse in HAL scope.
[23:00:01] <jdh> R2: then everything is good
[23:00:05] <PetefromTn_> R2E4_: Sweet man.
[23:00:07] <eric_unterhausen> yay
[23:00:30] <eric_unterhausen> so bygones to whatever Pete said about you
[23:00:32] <PetefromTn_> Can you power your spindle?
[23:00:42] <R2E4_> the yellow lite in hal config doesnt change though.
[23:01:05] <R2E4_> I guess its the monitor refresh, but at 60hz, that should be fine.
[23:01:09] <PetefromTn_> huh? me?
[23:01:17] <Jymmm> uw: Hit walmart, kmart, etc. They have choping boards that are HDPE about 1/4" to 3/8" thick, just cut on table saw, stack and bolt together.
[23:01:17] <eric_unterhausen> don't ruin the joke again
[23:01:19] <uw> Jymmm, I will try to make it. the picture in this forum post is exactly like the problem I have http://tx0.org/75a
[23:01:39] <R2E4_> The spindle is not connected yet.
[23:01:48] <R2E4_> neither the axis's.
[23:01:57] <CaptHindsight> will you be eating or storing food on the track drive?
[23:02:00] <uw> Jymmm, hmm that is not a bad idea as I'm not really sure the type of plastic even
[23:02:14] <R2E4_> I want to do them last or else I will never get around to the accessories. lol
[23:02:24] <uw> CaptHindsight, lol i sure hope not
[23:02:37] <CaptHindsight> then HDPE
[23:03:07] <PetefromTn_> That held true for me LOL.
[23:03:33] <uw> I think i will go that route
[23:03:33] <R2E4_> and besides, I dont know how yet....hehe
[23:03:42] <R2E4_> The HAL scope is cool.
[23:03:48] <CaptHindsight> I use the walmart cutting boards all the time for protos
[23:03:54] <Jymmm> uw: The beige plastic in this pic is glass impregnanted nylon I believe http://www.snowmobileforum.com/attachments/vintage-snowmobiles/32577d1388752620-polaris-gemini-drive-cog-sprocket-help-20140102_210438.jpg
[23:04:04] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I used it a time or two when we were setting up my machine.
[23:04:40] <R2E4_> If I put the inmput inclassic ladder I should see it.
[23:04:47] <PetefromTn_> Nice to be able to look at signals without a sillyscope.
[23:05:19] <R2E4_> PetefromTn_: is your machine fully operationsal? Are you cutting chips?
[23:05:34] <uw> Jymmm, yes i think so too, because it is a high wear item. but i think I'll at least make a prototype out of bullshit plastic first
[23:05:36] <PetefromTn_> Define fully operational...lol
[23:05:51] <uw> also, has anyone ever machined glass impreged plastic?
[23:05:54] <R2E4_> making chips....lol
[23:05:58] <PetefromTn_> My machine works in every way except toolchange and spindle index.
[23:06:11] <Jymmm> uw: IT's mold injected
[23:06:18] <uw> any tricks in doing so? This is really a question for down the line anyway
[23:06:24] <Jymmm> uw: delrin would be a machinable alternative
[23:06:26] <tjtr33> and it eats molds
[23:06:39] <CaptHindsight> uw: the glass carries the heat better, but it depends on the amount of glass vs plastic
[23:06:58] <PetefromTn_> I removed everything and started over with brand new servos and drives and whatnot and right now the machine is running and making chips coolant pump works power drawbar works etc.
[23:07:01] <R2E4_> yours doesnt have an index either?
[23:07:36] <PetefromTn_> My machine came equipped with a resolver so I am going to put a new encoder on it and get it setup that way with the 7i77 card.
[23:07:41] <Jymmm> uw: The biggest issue is thermal expansion of the material 'm going to guess.
[23:07:50] <R2E4_> I have to get diodes for my relays, some of them lock up the 7i77 when I denergize the relays.
[23:08:07] <PetefromTn_> what relays..
[23:08:41] <PetefromTn_> I am using the stock relays and running them with outputs from the 7i77 .
[23:09:00] <R2E4_> relays wired from outputs of the 7i77. re: hydraulic pump contactor, solenoids. The air solenoid is the worst. IT locksit up everytime I denergize it.
[23:09:01] <CaptHindsight> uw: have a pic of what it will look like?
[23:09:46] <PetefromTn_> The relays I bought to energize the contactors for power had built in diodes but the rest were the stock ones repurposed.
[23:10:20] <R2E4_> I jsut realized today what a big deal this is retrofitting a machine likethis.
[23:10:38] <PetefromTn_> Everything in my machine ran off 24v.
[23:10:54] <R2E4_> what do they charge to do this? I would think at leat 10,00.00
[23:11:03] <PetefromTn_> I know the toolchanger will probably be a big deal but the rest has not been that bad at all...
[23:11:09] <R2E4_> just have to worry about 24v would be nice.
[23:11:24] <PetefromTn_> what is yours using?
[23:11:44] <R2E4_> Minbe has 12vdc, 24vdc and 100vac for switching.
[23:12:15] <PetefromTn_> Are you using any of the old control system or complete gutting like I did?
[23:12:20] <uw> CaptHindsight, very very similar http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mvfLCYuwB8mdSYUSW4Oy9dA.jpg
[23:12:48] <R2E4_> I gutted it except for the servo drives and the spindle Fanuc drive.
[23:12:49] <uw> it's about 5" in dia
[23:13:05] <PetefromTn_> uw: Could you not machine that part from aluminum? If it held up with that plastic I would think it might last awhile in aluminum.
[23:13:18] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[23:13:40] <uw> PetefromTn_, I have thought about it...as this isnt the first time i've broke this sproket
[23:13:46] <CaptHindsight> what does it pull? a belt?
[23:13:53] <tjtr33> the track
[23:14:07] <PetefromTn_> make it from some 7075 possibly?
[23:14:14] <uw> but it is a wear item and replacing the track will be much more than the sproket
[23:14:27] <PetefromTn_> aah..
[23:14:46] <uw> it lasts a while though while plastic
[23:15:13] <PetefromTn_> does the drives and spindle drive need all those voltages to work?
[23:15:36] <CaptHindsight> an epoxy aluminum mix would also work, yeah it supposed to wear, you could make an aluminum gear and cover just the teeth with a polymer or epoxy
[23:16:01] <CaptHindsight> like the nylon and steel timing gears used with chains
[23:17:06] <CaptHindsight> whatever is softer will wear more rapidly, the gear gets sacrificed
[23:17:08] <Jymmm> uw: is that what enganges wit the track?
[23:18:08] <Jymmm> uw: Machine an aluminum one with replaceable nylon inserts. you can sell them like crazy too.
[23:18:13] <uw> Jymmm, yes the track is a glorified conveyor belt with reinforced holes in it for that gear to fit in
[23:18:31] <pcw_home> R2E4: switching a load without a diode should not lock up the 7I77, though if its too big a load
[23:18:32] <pcw_home> it may cause a remote fault. You should check that the load current of the solenoid is within the 7I77s ratings
[23:18:55] <CaptHindsight> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/495170025/nylon_TIMING_GEAR.jpg
[23:19:15] <tjtr33> "No, the aluminum one won't hold up. It'll wear real fast for normal trail riding, that's why it's considered "race only". Get the normal one. " and...
[23:19:19] <tjtr33> "The gears most trail sleds come with are powdered metal, but they do hold up pretty well."
[23:19:31] <PetefromTn_> R2E4_: My machine has 100v solenoids as I recall but the switching system was all 24v. It came with a bank of relays that controlled everything in the toolchanger that way.
[23:19:48] <uw> that is kinda what is going on CaptHindsight. the hub that goes to the shaft is steel and 2 piece that "clamps" to the nylon piece
[23:19:51] <R2E4_> pcw_home: I am driving a relay with the output. Passing 24vdc through the contacts.
[23:21:36] <R2E4_> I just checked the HAL meter, and it is set at 500m/div. The high on the input only takes 2 div, so that is 1volt? That doesnt make sense cause the input shows 12vdc
[23:21:47] <uw> tjtr33, i was thinking there was a reason why they wouldnt make it out of aluminum for a reason. I think if i just got a plastic one that was a tough plastic of some sort i would just machine it.
[23:22:25] <tjtr33> pic looks like and assembly with soft outsides, CaptHindsight's idea is good
[23:22:35] <R2E4_> then when it goes active, it drops, and I see the pulse.
[23:22:53] <uw> agreed tjtr33 CaptHindsight
[23:23:00] <R2E4_> I'm going toput it in classicladder and see if it switches.
[23:23:26] <pcw_home> I suspect somethin funny is going on (the 7I77 is designed to driver relays without diodes)
[23:23:53] <pcw_home> ist may be that you need suppression on the relay contacts
[23:23:55] <R2E4_> oh1.... hmm.
[23:24:23] <R2E4_> diode across the solenoid?
[23:24:48] <pcw_home> (you can get KV spikes if you switch inductive loads with mechanical contacts)
[23:25:27] <pcw_home> the inputs are digital so just show up as 0 or 1
[23:25:29] <PetefromTn_> R2E4_: Are you using the stock relays or aftermarket?
[23:26:04] <R2E4_> I bought relays from automation direct, with bases.
[23:26:10] <tjtr33> R2E4_, snubber across contacts example http://paktron.com/pdf/Quencharc_QRL.pdf
[23:27:39] <tjtr33> ( the Lazerenkovs 'invented' EDM when trying to solve this problem )
[23:28:59] <PetefromTn_> http://www.galco.com/buy/Idec/RU2S-D24?gclid=CKm_7IbmwLwCFeZj7AodnUwArg I am using these in my machine.
[23:30:47] <PetefromTn_> Oh and if you buy parts from them they send you a big delicious Galco Chocolate bar in the package LOL...
[23:30:50] <pcw_home> R2E4_: If you want to test the input voltage on your proxes, connect them to inputs 0,1,2 or 3 and set the 7I77 field I/O mode to 1,2, or 3
[23:31:42] <pcw_home> (and the 7I84 can have dual field voltages if required)
[23:34:49] <R2E4_> The output is on the 7i84 not the 7i77 thats locking up.
[23:35:02] <R2E4_> I will try the snubber scenario.
[23:35:39] <pcw_home> what do you mean by locking up? and what is the first reported error?
[23:37:25] <R2E4_> HEre is my 7i84 relay bankl. http://imagebin.org/292382
[23:37:57] <R2E4_> I will try it and gather the info.
[23:39:02] <R2E4_> Since I added the 5vdc power supply to power the mesa boards, the ghui stopped locking up, or at least for mnow.
[23:39:22] <PetefromTn_> Looks tight man.. is that all new or original?
[23:40:56] <PetefromTn_> I have some of the outputs for the toolchanger wired into the 7i77 so far but there are quite a few more to hookup. Then I need to get the tool changer motor wired into the system before I can try anything.
[23:41:03] <pcw_home> Not sure how anything that happens externally can crash the GUI maybe you are coulping in so much noise you crashed your PC
[23:43:05] <R2E4_> PetefromTn_: That is allnew.
[23:43:30] <PetefromTn_> looks nicely done anyways.
[23:43:45] <pcw_home> if you are switching inductive loads with relays you really need arc suppression
[23:45:42] <R2E4_> OK, I will work on that. I just tried it and a red led comes on next to the flashing led. wont go out until I restart LinuxCNC. Not able to fire oputs with the led. The led I believe says there is no field voltage, so that is weird.
[23:46:34] <pcw_home> The red light indicates there is a fault
[23:47:01] <R2E4_> ok, suppression is in order.
[23:47:38] <pcw_home> watchdog, low vfield, high vfield, overcurrent, overtemp etc
[23:48:13] <pcw_home> what version of linuxcnc are you running?
[23:48:16] <R2E4_> would it be a waste if I added diodes since the boards are designed to energize reklayswithout?
[23:48:51] <R2E4_> 2.5.3 I think. Let me check.
[23:49:04] <pcw_home> diode will reduce the noise and power dissipation in the outputs
[23:49:28] <R2E4_> yeah, 2.5.3
[23:49:52] <R2E4_> ok, I'll add them.
[23:50:10] <pcw_home> do you get any notifiers on the screen when you get the red light?
[23:50:20] <R2E4_> Tommorrow, I'll make some snubbers.
[23:50:27] <R2E4_> No notfiers.
[23:51:24] <pcw_home> yeah at some point the driver broke remote fault reporting, it should get fixed in master eventually
[23:51:51] <pcw_home> (so it will report the "oww")
[23:52:23] <R2E4_> aH, it would show up ifitwas on the 7i77?
[23:52:50] <R2E4_> or is the 7i77 considered remote?
[23:53:00] <pcw_home> 7i77 is remote also
[23:53:35] <R2E4_> I get them when I remove power from the 7i77.
[23:53:56] <pcw_home> sure
[23:54:37] <R2E4_> Thes mesa boards are great. How big is the company?
[23:54:49] <pcw_home> the driver will report remote faults at startup it just doesnt do them once its running
[23:55:02] <pcw_home> 6 people
[23:55:22] <PetefromTn_> Agreed Mesa cards are excellent so far for me...
[23:55:41] <R2E4_> did you work on designing or just the software in them?
[23:55:52] <pcw_home> whats annoying is that remote fault reporting used to work
[23:56:00] <pcw_home> both
[23:56:23] <R2E4_> backtrack.... That would be a pain....
[23:57:00] <pcw_home> It will get fixed in master sometime this year
[23:58:22] <PetefromTn_> interesting... the other day I was using the touch off feature in linuxCNC and I basically move the head down to the work with continuous jog and then switch to incremental jog by pressing the I on my keyboard. setting it at .001 steps. Then I go to .0001 to fine tune it.
[23:58:57] <PetefromTn_> Then I found it would not work when I pressed I or C again.. I thought it was a bug.
[23:59:41] <PetefromTn_> Come to realize that I had been switching to the tool table and inputting stuff like T1 P1 whatever and when i did it I hit caps lock...
[23:59:57] <PetefromTn_> Once I did that the I key no longer worked ...