#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-02-07

[00:17:09] <test1> yeah ethercat
[00:43:14] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EtherCatDriver
[02:14:49] <Deejay> moin
[07:00:05] * jthornton finally figured out what lambda does in python
[07:51:29] <Jymmm> mean avg
[07:52:23] * JT-Shop needs to start two fires today
[07:52:41] <R2E4> mornin guys
[07:52:42] <Jymmm> or get a bigger torch
[07:53:07] <R2E4> Decided and figured out a way to install a prox sensor on the turret for the index.
[07:53:10] <JT-Shop> morning
[07:53:36] <Jymmm> duct tape and bailing wire?
[07:53:37] <R2E4> I still dont know how the old control did it without an index.
[07:53:49] <R2E4> 2 sided carpet tape.
[07:53:57] <Jymmm> that works
[07:54:46] <R2E4> except it hits on a bracket, so every time it turns one rotation, I have to stick it back on....
[07:54:48] <Jymmm> if you use two layers of carpet tape, it gives a bit of cushion
[07:54:55] <JT-Shop> maybe it had a user input for the tools
[07:55:35] <Jymmm> optiocal interupter?
[07:55:44] <Jymmm> optical*
[07:56:04] <R2E4> prox sensor it uses.
[07:56:43] <Jymmm> maybe that bracket once per revolution has somethng to do with it
[07:56:52] <R2E4> if it was turning and hit E-stop, it would lose its position and the operator would have to re-enter where it was?
[07:57:38] <pcw_home> yeah maybe the tool changer logic had non-volatile memory so always remembered where it was
[07:57:51] <R2E4> I found everything, and it is using NPN's so I can install a pull-up resistor like pcw said. I tried one last night and it worked.
[07:59:14] <R2E4> yeah, becaiuse if the battery went dead, you lost everything. you had to stand in front of the machine for hours re entering parameters. Over 400 parameters. I did it at least 10 times trying to get the old control to work.
[07:59:46] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like a hobby
[08:00:30] <R2E4> I hated that. Took me three months to actually cut a wire to commit to convert.
[08:01:22] <archivist> shall I, shall I not....
[08:03:32] <R2E4> There should be two tool clamp and unclamp I would think. I only have one set.
[08:04:42] <Kayaking4autism> Anyone know anything about arc welding inverters in here?
[08:04:53] <R2E4> This is the only part of the ATC, I need to figure out. Then I can start on the ladder.
[08:07:19] <R2E4> One thing I dont have to worry about and I cant figure out how it is doing it but no matter when I release the sol to turn the magnet, it allways stops at the good tool position.
[08:09:14] <jsskangas> Helllo
[08:09:27] <jsskangas> Anyone online
[08:09:56] <jdh> you could ask that question anywhere.
[08:10:15] <jsskangas> Need help usin index homing in analog servo system
[08:10:27] <jdh> did you read the homing and limits faq?
[08:10:32] <jsskangas> yep
[08:11:06] <jsskangas> I attached index enable signals to PID Index-enable
[08:11:11] <jdh> then I probably can't help, but I can listen!
[08:11:12] <jsskangas> but still I get bang
[08:11:48] <jsskangas> PID out jump high whenn index is found
[08:11:56] <jsskangas> and count zeroed
[08:12:14] <skunkworks> jsskangas, what order are your threads?
[08:12:38] <jsskangas> welll....
[08:14:25] <jsskangas> Lets ask is there eny order they should be
[08:15:00] <skunkworks> read -> calculate -> output
[08:17:21] <skunkworks> or in nist terms 'sense - > model -> act
[08:17:31] <R2E4> Where are the faq's?
[08:17:32] <jsskangas> I will need to get my hal file
[08:17:36] <jsskangas> wait sec
[08:17:38] <jsskangas> --->
[08:18:47] <jdh> R2E4: not really a FAQ I guess, just the docs + wiki
[08:19:46] <skunkworks> jsskangas, http://pastebin.com/
[08:21:31] <JT-Shop> jsskangas, does your drive auto home on start up?
[08:22:35] <jsskangas> JT-Shop: no they dont
[08:22:44] <jsskangas> I use my drives as dummy
[08:23:07] <jsskangas> no as I started machine it did not made bang when homing
[08:23:28] <jsskangas> but if I move the axis whive power is off
[08:23:38] <jsskangas> it makes bang againg
[08:24:19] <jsskangas> Im litle pit confused how this index homing works
[08:26:02] <pcw_home> Thats the normal thing when there are problems with index (bang when first homed and then not again until you power down )
[08:27:01] <jsskangas> just that it is doing
[08:27:02] <jsskangas> http://pastebin.com/EnqUBHxN
[08:27:11] <jsskangas> here is my hal
[08:27:11] <pcw_home> because there is no position jump at index after the first time
[08:28:02] <jsskangas> how that problem is solved
[08:28:13] <jsskangas> or is it still a current problem
[08:29:44] <JT-Shop> jsskangas, pastebin your ini file
[08:31:09] <pcw_home> should be solved by connecting index enable to PID
[08:31:30] <cradek> I think the hal looks right
[08:31:37] <skunkworks> I do too...
[08:31:43] <cradek> are you positive this is the hal file you are using? it's easy to edit the wrong one.
[08:32:05] <jsskangas> Thats the one
[08:32:07] <jsskangas> http://pastebin.com/67DhyvR0
[08:32:16] <R2E4> what does "bang" represent in this contex? audio sound of two different metal objects banging against each other?
[08:33:07] <skunkworks> there is a big enough instantanious jump in postion that the servo 'bangs' trying to correct for a split second
[08:33:08] <jsskangas> it comes from servo, and then it gives following error
[08:33:10] <cradek> R2E4: if it's the misconfiguration we think it is, it causes the dac output to be wrong (full scale) for one servo period after index is found
[08:33:31] <cradek> so whatever noise the machine makes in response to that
[08:33:36] <cradek> brb
[08:34:07] <pcw_home> tuning looks quite odd
[08:34:26] <jsskangas> Well wait a second
[08:35:00] <jdh> ie. Redundant.
[08:35:03] <jdh> <urk>
[08:35:39] <JT-Shop> jsskangas, I had that problem with my plasma (very high acceleration) until I added HOME_FINAL_VEL to each axis
[08:35:48] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis__lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[08:37:21] <JT-Shop> do the PID params look funny to you guys?
[08:37:32] <pcw_home> Yes
[08:37:46] <pcw_home> partly because they are not normalized
[08:39:04] * JT-Shop wishes he could grasp the concept of normalized
[08:39:25] <pcw_home> output scale is one but max velocity is 250 (so theres a scale of 1/250 in the P/I/D)
[08:40:11] <jsskangas> https://picasaweb.google.com/100325893956269903721/Servo?authkey=Gv1sRgCKjGrZf9v5PBUQ&noredirect=1#5977662389670718610
[08:40:13] <pcw_home> P/I/D terms
[08:40:45] <jsskangas> output scale is one but max velocity is 250 (so theres a scale of 1/250 in the P/I/D)
[08:40:53] <jsskangas> Please explain
[08:40:55] <jsskangas> more
[08:41:20] <jsskangas> following error is still really small
[08:41:39] <jsskangas> I my self was happy with those PID values
[08:41:42] <pcw_home> it means you have made your own arbitrary scale for the PID output, not mm/S
[08:41:51] <jsskangas> yes
[08:42:33] <pcw_home> which makes comparing tuning between machines difficult
[08:42:45] <jsskangas> DID someone find some error in HAL or INI
[08:42:47] <jsskangas> ?
[08:43:06] <pcw_home> nothing obvious
[08:43:49] <pcw_home> (at least to me but try JTs suggestion)
[08:47:19] <jsskangas> It look like this HOME_FINAL_VEL made it job
[08:47:32] <jsskangas> I will take out power and try againg
[08:49:06] * JT-Shop notices that OUPUT_SCALE in the docs has no description :(
[08:49:32] <jsskangas> DID NOT WORK
[08:49:47] <pcw_home> also you might try hooking up the encoder velocity pins to the PID feedback-deriv pins
[08:49:47] <JT-Shop> no need to SHOUT
[08:49:50] <jsskangas> loud BANG and following erroro
[08:50:00] <jsskangas> this is fustrating
[08:50:19] <jsskangas> I have fight with this proplem 4 yearsa
[08:50:25] <jsskangas> years now
[08:50:33] <jsskangas> and still no solution
[08:51:01] <jsskangas> I cant get resice homing whatr i need in 5 axis machine
[08:51:21] <jsskangas> to get G54 to correct palce
[08:51:35] <jsskangas> now i need to measure it every time I start machine
[08:51:50] <skunkworks> even if you slow the homing down?
[08:52:17] <jsskangas> it happens when it find index
[08:52:47] <jsskangas> then it command servo at full speed for one servo period
[08:53:46] <jsskangas> it only makes it when you power up machine
[08:54:03] <jsskangas> not anymore when doing second homing
[08:54:45] <skunkworks> yes - that is classic homing thump that was fixed with the pid.x.index-enable..
[08:55:05] <jsskangas> yep But I have them connected
[08:55:15] <jsskangas> but are they connected correct
[08:55:35] <jsskangas> and do I have curret model where they are fixed
[08:55:37] <jsskangas> ?
[08:55:55] <skunkworks> I see that - in you hal file.. my hal file looks very similar to yours..
[08:57:10] <JT-Shop> jsskangas, what version of LinuxCNC are you using?
[08:57:39] <jsskangas> where do I find it
[08:57:40] <jsskangas> ?
[08:57:55] <JT-Shop> if your using Axis as a GUI then Help About
[08:58:14] <jsskangas> 2.4.3
[08:58:32] <JT-Shop> 2.5.3 is current
[08:58:52] <jsskangas> ok but was this fixed in my version
[08:59:24] <jsskangas> I dont want to change version just for fun
[08:59:50] <JT-Shop> I understand
[09:00:22] <jsskangas> but if that the fix for this problem, I will update this night
[09:00:57] <jsskangas> that pang other vice will brake my balls (screw)
[09:01:05] <pcw_home> I would also hook the encoder velocity to the pid feedback-deriv pins
[09:01:16] <jsskangas> how that is done
[09:01:41] <jsskangas> eny exsamples
[09:02:56] <JT-Shop> your hal file looks the same as my hal on my CHNC using a 5i20
[09:03:21] <pcw_home> net velocity_0 pid.0.feedback-deriv hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.velocity
[09:03:22] <pcw_home> etc
[09:03:22] <jsskangas> I think that is some universal solution
[09:03:24] <R2E4> JT-Shop: I hate to ask but can you send me the link for your tool changer zip file you sent the other day? I cant seem to locate it.
[09:03:46] <jsskangas> Tool changer
[09:03:54] <jsskangas> that would intrest me too
[09:04:15] <skunkworks_> net xvel pid.0.feedback-deriv hm2_5i20.0.encoder.00.velocity
[09:04:19] <R2E4> I think I got it on your gnipsel site
[09:04:35] <skunkworks> heh
[09:04:47] <skunkworks> sorry - missed pcw's post
[09:05:43] <jsskangas> lets try
[09:06:24] <JT-Shop> R2E4, the tool changer classicladder sim example?
[09:06:31] <R2E4> yeah
[09:06:45] <JT-Shop> everything starts at gnipsel.com
[09:06:46] <R2E4> I spent 30 minutes trying to find it in the logs.....lol
[09:06:59] <R2E4> i found it there....
[09:07:18] <R2E4> yes, but where does it end?
[09:07:35] <JT-Shop> where does what end?
[09:08:03] <R2E4> you said everything stars at gnipsel.com....
[09:08:08] <R2E4> stats
[09:08:11] <R2E4> nevermind
[09:08:31] <jsskangas> pid.0.feedback-deriv not found
[09:08:37] <R2E4> You worked on nuc subs?
[09:08:47] <JT-Shop> overhaul yes
[09:08:53] <R2E4> which shipyard?
[09:08:59] <JT-Shop> Ingalls
[09:09:11] <JT-Shop> till Carter screwed that up
[09:09:22] <R2E4> I was stationed on the USS BEnjamen Franklin for 6 years
[09:09:32] <pcw_home> ahh PID comp is too old :-(
[09:09:43] <JT-Shop> we did fast attack overhauls
[09:09:43] <R2E4> Joined my command in the Portsmouth Naval shipyards where it was being overhauled
[09:09:58] <skunkworks> LinuxCNC 2.5.0 released
[09:10:04] <jsskangas> OK needs update
[09:10:11] <jsskangas> I will do that later
[09:10:12] <skunkworks> PID: accept external command-deriv and feedback-deriv connections to use a high quality velocity signal when it is available
[09:10:26] <R2E4> Never wa on fast attack, just the boomers.
[09:10:31] <skunkworks> jsskangas, that may fix your problem...
[09:10:39] <jsskangas> I hope
[09:10:45] <JT-Shop> you could roller skate on a boomer
[09:11:00] * JT-Shop notes that it is monkey pickle time
[09:11:21] <jsskangas> well now I need to go shopping in town
[09:11:30] <pcw_home> jsskangas: a band aid fix is set pid.N.maxerror to like .2 or something
[09:11:51] <jsskangas> what is that
[09:12:27] <pcw_home> (something less than the normal following error envelope)
[09:12:59] <jsskangas> no I mean pid.0.maxerror
[09:13:03] <jsskangas> as a parameter
[09:13:33] <pcw_home> it bounds the P/I/D errors to +- that parameter so big inputs errors are clipped
[09:13:33] <jsskangas> it is not a following error of joint
[09:14:05] <jsskangas> lets try
[09:15:05] <pcw_home> so as long as your following error doesn't normally exceed that value it does nothing
[09:15:42] <jsskangas> does not wor
[09:15:44] <jsskangas> k
[09:17:12] <pcw_home> it absolutely does work but depends on the how low you can get away with setting it (and how good your tuning is to begin with)
[09:17:53] <jsskangas> tuning stays at 0.005 at feeds
[09:18:06] <jsskangas> following erroro
[09:19:27] <pcw_home> Are these velocity mode drives?
[09:20:48] <jsskangas> yep
[09:21:31] <jsskangas> velosity , position via sercos, torque or combination of torque and velosity
[09:21:46] <cradek> pcw_home: v2.4 does not have that feedback-deriv stuff
[09:22:20] <cradek> oh sorry, you found that already (I was reading back)
[09:22:29] <jsskangas> they have their own homing, if this proplem does not go away i will move homing to drives
[09:23:27] <jsskangas> but it has to be fixed in emc I think Im not only one who uses index in homin
[09:23:54] <cradek> 2.4 and 2.5 pid have differences I don't understand at first glance, so it may be that 2.4 still has a thump problem
[09:23:55] <jsskangas> there is one thing my machine zere is not in home position
[09:24:00] <skunkworks> I don't see anything in the change logs - but I thought I remember some fixes to pid index pin...
[09:24:01] <JT-Shop> I use index for homing on my CHNC
[09:24:12] <jsskangas> I have home_offset in 230mm at X axis
[09:24:25] <pcw_home> The tuning still looks funny to me (I would verify that FF1 is right by adjusting with I zeroed)
[09:24:27] <cradek> I use index on a very high accel machine, and it is what cuased me to fix the index thump in the first place
[09:25:07] <cradek> I recommend that you upgrade to 2.5.3 and retest, and please let us know either way what your result is
[09:25:40] <jsskangas> It is tuned in best posible performance in step responce and following speed
[09:25:52] <cradek> the "read the command and feedback only once" pid change is not in 2.4
[09:26:33] <skunkworks> I use index homing also..
[09:26:36] <pcw_home> FF1 has pretty much got to be wrong (at .0016)
[09:27:08] <jsskangas> I can try different value what you suggest
[09:27:14] <JT-Shop> jsskangas, if it is a velocity drive this may help http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[09:27:57] <pcw_home> Its possible if you are only used say 1/2 of the drives velocity (and DAC resolution)
[09:28:21] <cradek> but yeah mostly I in the pid seems really wrong to me
[09:28:52] <jsskangas> Yep
[09:28:54] <pcw_home> if the tuning falls apart without I something is wrong
[09:29:27] <jsskangas> OK I will try different tuning
[09:29:31] <pcw_home> on a velocity mode drive, FF1 is 99% of the solution
[09:34:50] <jsskangas> I will update new install, will it install on old one witout proiblems
[09:36:29] <cradek> what os?
[09:40:48] <pcw_home> JT-Shop: by normalize I mean set the DAC output scale so that the output of the
[09:40:50] <pcw_home> PID is in machine units not some arbitrary units. So for example if I set the OUTPUT_SCALE
[09:40:51] <pcw_home> to axis velocity at full scale DAC output, now the PID output is scaled in machine units per
[09:40:53] <pcw_home> second (so FF1 should be ~1)
[09:42:43] <pcw_home> and P/I/D terms are comparable between different machines regardless of whether they are inch/mm etc
[09:49:33] <JT-Shop> ok, that is making some sense now. Thanks
[09:51:27] <skunkworks> my output scale is 3.7 which is 222ipm
[09:52:56] <JT-Shop> hmm, I don't even have OUTPUT_SCALE on my 5i25 config
[09:53:02] <JT-Shop> my 5i20 has it
[09:53:25] <jsskangas> Im using braindead intall ubundu you can get from cnclinux homepage
[09:53:58] <JT-Shop> click on system about ubuntu
[09:55:14] <skunkworks> (I have the machine set to 200ipm max)
[09:57:25] <jsskangas> So If I have max velosity of axis around 30 000 mm/min I should but the scale to 500
[09:58:29] <jsskangas> I could get it to around 60 000 mm/min but that too much for ballscrews
[09:59:51] <pcw_home> you set the scale to what speed you would (on machine units per second) get when you apply 10V to the drives
[10:00:08] <pcw_home> (in machine units)
[10:00:52] <jsskangas> ok
[10:02:00] <jsskangas> Skunkworks: where you are locatred
[10:02:05] <jsskangas> located
[10:02:19] <skunkworks> Wisconsin..
[10:02:23] <jsskangas> USA'
[10:02:27] <skunkworks> yes
[10:02:32] <jsskangas> Im in Finland
[10:02:36] <skunkworks> Hello!
[10:03:02] <jsskangas> Hello
[10:03:03] <skunkworks> (did the english units give me away?)
[10:03:10] <jsskangas> Yep
[10:03:21] <jsskangas> I have intrestin thing to test
[10:03:46] <jsskangas> I just got packet from usa
[10:03:57] <jdh> with Mesa cards?
[10:04:07] <jsskangas> 4 working moog servo valves
[10:04:29] <jsskangas> hydraulic servo system to drive machine tool
[10:05:09] <jsskangas> I dont know will I ever do it but valves where so cheap that i had to buy them
[10:05:43] <skunkworks> This is a project of ours.. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cincinnatimi/piston.JPG
[10:05:58] <jsskangas> yep with mesa cards, valves takes -10..+10vdc (actually m)
[10:06:08] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cincinnatimi/cinclathe.JPG
[10:06:17] <JT-Shop> pcw_home, on a 5i25 should there be an OUTPUT_SCALE used?
[10:06:48] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, that is part of the pid... so it should be interface independant..
[10:07:15] <skunkworks> pid and pwm I think...
[10:07:25] <JT-Shop> I don't see a pid scale pin
[10:07:31] <JT-Shop> let me look at params
[10:08:35] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogoutX-scalemax
[10:09:33] <skunkworks> oh - it looks like it is only used for pwm scale
[10:09:52] <pcw_home> but you have to set minlim and maxlim also for 7I77
[10:10:26] <JT-Shop> 11 float IN 0 hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0 <== x-axis-command
[10:10:58] <pcw_home> hmm can you:
[10:10:59] <pcw_home> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0.minlim -OUTPUT_SCALE
[10:12:22] <JT-Shop> 11 float RW 10 hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0-maxlim
[10:12:48] <JT-Shop> 11 float RW -10 hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0-minlim
[10:13:45] <JT-Shop> 11 float RW 10 hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0-scalemax
[10:13:56] <JT-Shop> must be the defaults
[10:14:11] <pcw_home> so
[10:14:13] <pcw_home> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0.scalemax OUTPUT_SCALE
[10:14:14] <pcw_home> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0.maxlim OUTPUT_SCALE
[10:14:16] <pcw_home> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout0.minlim -OUTPUT_SCALE
[10:14:17] <pcw_home> is what you want, not sure the last line is possible
[10:14:31] <JT-Shop> easy to test lol
[10:14:58] <JT-Shop> with a max velocity of 3.0 OUTPUT_SCALE should be 3.0?
[10:16:40] <pcw_home> not exactly because the servo needs some headroom
[10:17:19] <JT-Shop> how much headroom?
[10:17:39] <pcw_home> so the output scale is the velocity you would get at 10V (which must be higher than the higher velocity ever used)
[10:18:10] <pcw_home> rule of thumb for velocity drives maybe 25 %
[10:20:06] <pcw_home> but in any case its the axis velocity with full scale DAC output
[10:20:51] <pcw_home> (so linxcncs axis velocity has to be set lower than that number)
[10:23:17] <JT-Shop> the headroom is so when a load is applied more power can compensate?
[10:24:02] <pcw_home> Yeah you still nead to be able to correct in both directions at full speed
[10:24:11] <pcw_home> need
[10:25:11] <skunkworks> hence why I had it set to 222ipm.. but it sounds like I should have it a little higher
[10:25:23] <skunkworks> well - it is working
[10:26:03] <pcw_home> and full speed depends on line voltage on most servos plus available
[10:26:04] <pcw_home> torque and bandwidth go down as you get closer to the limit
[10:26:21] <pcw_home> so you need headroom
[10:38:05] <skunkworks> heh - all my ff1's are .7 to .5.. I really should revisit tuning
[10:38:13] <JT-Shop> me too
[10:40:07] <archivist> I just want to visit tuning :)
[10:40:21] <skunkworks> heh - stop using steppers!
[10:40:35] <skunkworks> or - you could use a pid loop in your stepper setups...
[10:40:54] <skunkworks> that is what pcw_home setup with his config for testing his stepgens...
[10:40:57] <pcw_home> yeah that would make sense if you set OUTPUT_SCALE to linxcnc's max velocity, not the drives max velocity
[10:41:23] <skunkworks> really - imagine that :)
[10:42:09] <pcw_home> turns out the PID loop is a better control scheme for the hardware stepgen than all that fancy code on the driver
[10:42:19] <pcw_home> in the driver
[10:42:36] <pcw_home> (at least its much more tolerant of jitter)
[10:42:50] <skunkworks> that is pretty neat
[10:43:30] <pcw_home> the control loop in the driver goes bonkers with only a little jitter
[10:44:07] <skunkworks> corrects too quickly?
[10:44:19] <pcw_home> and too much
[10:45:58] <pcw_home> and no way to limit how much except stepgen maxaccel
[10:54:03] <pcw_home> with the PID comp, a small value of maxerror can limit the slew rate of corrections
[10:54:04] <pcw_home> so prevents wild velocity adjustments caused by position sampling jitter
[10:54:06] <pcw_home> In effect low pass filtering the feedback, which is fine since the stepgen is 99.9% controlled by
[10:54:07] <pcw_home> velocity feed forward and only long-term timebase errors need be fixed by the feedback
[10:55:01] <cradek> can an equivalent of maxerror be added to the stepgen?
[10:55:49] <cradek> although.... if you always use velocity mode stepgen you can have index homing too. might be worthwhile to "get used to it"
[11:03:28] <pcw_home> Yeah it does have the advantage of uniformity (currently it the only way the stepgen will run over Ethernet due to the significant jitter)
[11:07:18] <skunkworks> seems pretty solid. I think I was getting less than 3 tenths following error with 60 acc and 3000ipm.. (whatever your config was)
[11:17:03] <skunkworks> I should hook it to the gantry and see how it runs.. maybe test out the new TP
[11:17:29] <skunkworks> On actual hardware 'gasp!'
[11:18:54] <skunkworks> hmm - maybe I can't do that.. The new tp is based on master - not ubc
[11:19:52] <pcw_home> Is there much difference on motion between the two?
[11:20:32] <skunkworks> motion?
[11:25:05] <pcw_home> the motion "comp"
[11:25:11] <skunkworks> if you mean motion as in physical movement - yes. It can look further ahead in certain circumstances so it doesn't have to slow down (1 segment lookahead limit). So top speeds are much higher.
[11:25:25] <skunkworks> oh - I don't know..
[11:26:06] <pcw_home> (just wondering how difficult it will be to merge)
[11:26:10] <skunkworks> it might just build on ubc - but I don't have the knowledge to do something liket hat.
[11:29:43] <zeeshan> hi
[11:29:45] <zeeshan> =]
[11:38:41] <JT-Shop> the VMC has never sounded so happy to run 6k
[11:39:09] <skunkworks> heh
[11:39:21] <zeeshan> is the spindle on your vmw a servo
[11:39:25] <zeeshan> *vmc
[11:39:27] <skunkworks> the matsuura has a 6k spindle... Can't wait to try it..
[11:39:49] <skunkworks> we just have it plugged in with an extension cord right now...
[11:39:54] <zeeshan> lol
[11:40:12] <JT-Shop> the 20hp idler motor is more balanced between phases than any other motor I've tried
[11:40:39] <skunkworks> (well, - a big ass extension cord..)
[11:40:42] <JT-Shop> yes, a Siemens 611 drive
[11:40:54] <JT-Shop> I have a few of those too
[11:41:12] <skunkworks> I think they where for plugging in rv's
[11:42:00] * JT-Shop has 2 10hp and 1 15hp phase converters for sale now
[12:47:40] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI
[12:47:46] <zeeshan> damn thats a big ass machine linuxcnc is running
[12:47:53] <zeeshan> look at the size of the spindle motor
[12:47:53] <zeeshan> lol
[12:48:16] <zeeshan> BEAST
[12:50:11] <cradek> it's a cool test, too
[12:50:31] <cradek> he wrote kinematics for that machine to compensate for the minor geometric errors it has
[12:50:42] <zeeshan> you know the person?
[12:50:49] <archivist> he makes aircraft parts
[12:50:52] <cradek> sure
[12:50:58] <zeeshan> :D
[12:51:02] <cradek> the last linuxcnc fest was at his shop
[12:51:18] <zeeshan> i'm new forgive me :)
[12:51:18] <cradek> he's been using linuxcnc for retrofitting his old machinery for years
[12:51:32] <zeeshan> linuxcnc is way better
[12:51:37] <zeeshan> i've been reading through the manual
[12:51:44] <zeeshan> theres so much you can do.
[12:52:00] <skunkworks> it is a swiss army knife
[12:52:05] <PetefromTn> yeah man that cici ball test is awesome. HUGE machine moving very precisely amazing.
[12:52:15] <cradek> swiss army hammer drill
[12:52:29] <PetefromTn> Swiss Army Transformer PRIME!
[12:52:52] <zeeshan> this might sound like a retarded question
[12:52:59] <zeeshan> but can you precisely control an induction motor
[12:53:05] <zeeshan> a/c induction motor
[12:53:17] <skunkworks> postion or rpm?
[12:53:19] <cradek> I didn't ever notice before that the spindle smashes into the console
[12:53:21] <zeeshan> position
[12:53:27] <cradek> that's why it moves I guess
[12:53:30] <skunkworks> heh
[12:53:47] <zeeshan> i've read you can do it, but never seen how
[12:53:53] <cradek> fortunately the machine doesn't move very fast
[12:55:48] <skunkworks> zeeshan, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oTJNEVpvYY
[12:55:59] <zeeshan> :)
[12:56:50] <zeeshan> wow
[12:56:51] <zeeshan> you can.
[12:57:15] <skunkworks> not precise - with his hardware - a better vfd might do better
[12:57:25] <zeeshan> i have sensorless vector vfds
[12:57:49] <zeeshan> it'd be nice if i can do it so i can hold the spindle in precise positions
[12:57:56] <archivist> usually the answer is yes, now work out how
[12:58:00] <skunkworks> they might do better - but you are not going to do 4th axis machining with it - if that is what you are hoping
[12:58:26] <zeeshan> well i just want to be able to index the spindle at various locations
[12:58:37] <zeeshan> for gear cutting
[12:58:42] <zeeshan> or spline cutting
[12:58:47] <archivist> does the vfd have a servo mode
[12:59:03] <zeeshan> i don't know, but it does have options for PID
[12:59:18] <archivist> gear cutting needs accuracy
[12:59:29] <zeeshan> im probably not going to do this anyway
[12:59:38] <zeeshan> it'll be a stepper with a rotary table on a mill
[12:59:45] <zeeshan> seems way easier to do.
[13:00:25] <skunkworks> did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4
[13:01:30] <zeeshan> wow
[13:01:31] <zeeshan> thats amazing
[13:01:51] <skunkworks> or
[13:01:52] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTHY5U8v-U
[13:02:27] <skunkworks> jeeze that is a big hob
[13:02:40] <Connor> I still need to get adapter plate made for my 4" table to mate my 4" chuck
[13:02:58] <zeeshan> man i cant wait till the ball screws come in
[13:03:04] <zeeshan> need to make some chips again
[13:03:44] <PetefromTn> Well I just got back from running into KnoxVegas to buy some more aluminum plate for this part.
[13:04:14] <PetefromTn> I love that video andy did where he turns the spindle and slaves the ER collet I remember when I first saw that I was like FREAKIN' COOL!!
[13:05:19] <Connor> Also need to finish caulking the last few panels of my enclosure and get my mill set back up on the stand....
[13:07:37] <PetefromTn> Man I love the looks of that tilting dividing head turned fourth axis. Never seen that before that would work PERFECT for what I want to do.
[13:07:42] <archivist> we need to add the maths for helicals to the hobbing setup
[13:08:21] <Connor> PetefromTn: What video / picture ?
[13:08:35] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTHY5U8v-U
[13:08:58] <skunkworks> archivist: how is your setup coming?
[13:09:34] <Connor> Oh. I was thinking it was a rotary table.. wasn't paying much attention to it.
[13:09:47] <archivist> skunkworks, its making me finish the restoration of my hobbing machine
[13:09:59] <skunkworks> heh
[13:10:14] <archivist> but funds is stopping me from doing anything
[13:11:45] <archivist> my machine is not that well designed to add cnc to though
[13:13:07] <PetefromTn> Thats better than any rotab if you ask me. You could do compound angles on it and those things are STOUT little bastards. What would be really awesome is if you could figure out a way to automate the tilt...LOL
[13:14:17] <Connor> PetefromTn: I still need help making my adapter plate at some point.. and a riser block for it too. I want to get it setup so I can do some 4th axis work.
[13:15:01] <PetefromTn> Well man as you know I have this TECHNICAL issue with my machine here and as I said before one hand scratches the other LOL... My new toolholders should be here today.
[13:15:42] <PetefromTn> I got that plate for ya too..if you need it.
[13:17:10] <Connor> Yea, the issue is getting over there.. With the Wife having Fibromyalgia.. I'm having to do most of the house work, grocery shopping.. plus normal job.. by time I finish working.. I don't want to do too much.. which is why I haven't made any progress on the mill or enclosure in months.
[13:18:04] <PetefromTn> Understand man not trying to bust yer balls just kidding around. Whenever you can you are welcome.
[13:18:10] <mozmck> Fibromyalgia is no fun - I know people with it.
[13:18:21] <PetefromTn> Is she doing alright.
[13:18:38] <Connor> It fcking sucks... I've pretty much lost my Wife and Business partner..
[13:19:18] <PetefromTn> Are you sure it is not MD?
[13:19:50] <mozmck> I don't think the medical industry can do much other than pain pills, but I think there are some alternative things that can help more.
[13:19:51] <Connor> It's not MD. Doctor ran all blood work..
[13:20:09] <Jymmm> Connor: Walmart, Target, and Safeway all have grocery delivery.
[13:20:35] <Connor> She had a Migraine the other night and I had to take her to the ER.. now she's in a Fibro flare..
[13:20:52] <PetefromTn> Would you believe that my local aluminum supply shop sold me the 3/4x6" aluminum flat bar 6061 for like three bucks less per foot than onlinemetals or any of the other places online I could find?
[13:21:07] <cradek> yep
[13:21:10] <Tom_itx> sure
[13:21:14] <Tom_itx> i get all mine local
[13:21:22] <Connor> yep. Who do you use ?
[13:21:33] <Tom_itx> the surplus
[13:21:35] <Tom_itx> the Yard
[13:21:38] <PetefromTn> what are you paying for 3/4x6 plate where you are?
[13:21:38] <Tom_itx> they're online btw
[13:21:39] <Connor> I found a place downtown Knox that sales shorts by the pound.
[13:21:46] <Tom_itx> it's by the pound
[13:21:50] <Tom_itx> i forget the rate
[13:21:52] <mozmck> yes, I've looked at the online places and they all cost more than local - but that makes sense to me.
[13:22:06] <_methods> shipping is a killer
[13:22:10] <Tom_itx> yep
[13:22:16] <PetefromTn> I paid just slightly over $20.00 a foot for that stuff which is better than I have been paying.
[13:22:17] <Loetmichel> Connor: whats fibro flare?
[13:22:35] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn find a scrap place nearby
[13:22:57] <PetefromTn> There are none that deal in raw materials like that I have found. they sell lots of scrap metal
[13:22:59] <Tom_itx> i've even seen 3' roundbar there believe it or not
[13:23:02] <_methods> or get friendly with a local metal shop
[13:23:06] <_methods> they may sell you drops
[13:23:19] <IchGuckLive> hi all what a great opening in sotchie for the 22nd olympic winter games
[13:23:20] <Connor> Loetmichel: When the Fibromyalgia kicks in really bad.. more than normal threshold... she normally runs 5-6 on 1-10 pain scale.. a flare can run 8-10 range.. and moves all around.. yesterday was arms, today it's her legs..
[13:23:29] <_methods> we sell to people every once in awhile
[13:23:29] <PetefromTn> I have been doing that actually and had some good friends locally who sold to me but they went out of business.
[13:23:40] <_methods> if they're cool
[13:24:02] <PetefromTn> Oh I'm the coolest!
[13:24:11] <_methods> haha then you would be in luck here
[13:24:14] <PetefromTn> just ask me....
[13:24:15] <Tom_itx> yeah i hauled alot of cutoff home from the shop
[13:24:16] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: you might have asked one times over
[13:24:46] <PetefromTn> yeah.
[13:25:06] <PetefromTn> The place I went to is called Specialty metals in downtown. Connor.
[13:25:09] <Connor> PetefromTn: Place I got mine from was 2547 Scottish Pike
[13:25:14] <Connor> YUP. that's them.
[13:25:31] <PetefromTn> That's where I get aluminum they are at least reasonable.
[13:25:44] <Loetmichel> Connor: have googled. that reads not so nice to put it nice
[13:26:10] <PetefromTn> The other place I go to is only for structural steel altho they sell thinner plate 6061 like 1/4 inch.
[13:26:14] <Connor> same place I got my last batch from.. You just go back and pull the shorts and cuts from the pile and take it over to the scales.
[13:26:31] <PetefromTn> piles?
[13:26:48] <PetefromTn> They have racks of material there did they let you go thru the scrap?
[13:26:52] <Connor> Yea, I ask for shorts and stuff from Jobs they did..
[13:27:12] <Connor> Yea.. the let me pick through it.. and then took me over to the scales..
[13:27:28] <PetefromTn> what was the price per Lb.
[13:27:29] <Connor> around $3.00 or $4.00 a pound at the time.
[13:28:29] <PetefromTn> don't have a scale so I wonder what I paid for this per pound.
[13:28:51] <Connor> Loetmichel: yea.. it's not a good thing.. Also something called Firbo Fog that goes with it.. bascily makes it hard to think and concentrate.
[13:28:52] <jsskangas> How do update 2.5.0 to 2.5.3
[13:28:59] <Connor> PetefromTn: Go bathroom scales ? :)
[13:29:15] <PetefromTn> LOL I broke it weighing something else in the shop.
[13:29:24] <Connor> ROFL
[13:29:27] <jsskangas> I I cant get computer in net
[13:30:04] <IchGuckLive> jsskangas: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[13:30:09] <cradek> no
[13:30:35] <IchGuckLive> jsskangas: why is the update needed for you
[13:30:37] <cradek> jsskangas: it's by far the easiest if you can plug it in to the internet temporarily and run the updates
[13:30:54] <cradek> you do NOT switch to buildbot debs to update v2.5
[13:31:11] <Connor> PetefromTn: You get a long ethernet cable ?
[13:31:12] <IchGuckLive> jsskangas: all functions on 2.5.0 will run 98% of all mashines
[13:31:28] <PetefromTn> Nope..
[13:31:33] <Connor> Get'm CHEAP from monoprice
[13:31:42] <cradek> 2.5.3 has lots of bugfixes over 2.5.0. you can look at the release notes if you want to check.
[13:32:01] <jsskangas> Yes Put I have severe problem with index homing
[13:32:07] <IchGuckLive> agree cradek
[13:32:17] <PetefromTn> Apparently according to Onlinemetals 3/4x6 plate is 5.292 pounds per lineal foot so if you paid 3.00 a pound you got screwd LOL
[13:32:48] <Connor> I may have. I dunno.
[13:32:51] <IchGuckLive> jsskangas: where are you from USA Europ ...
[13:32:54] <jsskangas> im usin 2.4.3
[13:32:56] <PetefromTn> I am thinkiing I should revert back to 2.5.3 for my VMC here.
[13:33:09] <Connor> PetefromTn: Or just upgrade to latest 2.6
[13:33:15] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn go for it!
[13:33:18] <IchGuckLive> jsskangas: get you the new livecd install first
[13:33:20] <PetefromTn> LOL..
[13:33:35] <Tom_itx> as much trouble as you've had i wouldn't upgrade to 2.6
[13:33:42] <cradek> to upgrade from 2.4 to 2.5 you do not need to reinstall the OS
[13:33:44] <PetefromTn> My son in law can make me an ethernet cable to run to the shop but I am still not sure I want to mess with that.
[13:33:46] <IchGuckLive> jsskangas: dont update from 2.4 do a frech system install
[13:33:55] <Tom_itx> cradek it would be a downgrade
[13:34:05] <cradek> Tom_itx: two conversations here
[13:34:09] <Tom_itx> oh
[13:34:10] <Connor> I REALLY wanted us to use the remap function..
[13:34:11] <Tom_itx> carry on
[13:34:11] <PetefromTn> hehehe
[13:34:15] <Tom_itx> i'll talk to myself
[13:34:24] <jsskangas> <IchGuckLive:Finland
[13:34:31] <IchGuckLive> jsskangas: im in germany
[13:34:36] <cradek> jsskangas: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.5
[13:34:49] <PetefromTn> Whatshisname was saying how simple classic ladder is and my friend Art was saying it was simple too...I don't know shit about it.
[13:34:59] <cradek> jsskangas: get a cable or move the machine to a network connection, and follow these instructions
[13:35:23] <Connor> Exactly, I don't either.. but, I do understand how the remap worked and how to write the scripts..
[13:35:28] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE have a nice Weekend
[13:35:44] <cradek> Connor: what kind of a tool changer is it?
[13:35:50] <PetefromTn> carousel.
[13:35:58] <cradek> swing arm?
[13:35:59] <jsskangas> cradek: Thanks, Ineed to get it out from shop ot I have an old WIFI I could try that
[13:36:08] <PetefromTn> yeah with pneumatics.
[13:36:09] <Connor> Yes. with spindle indexing.
[13:36:24] <cradek> yeah you don't really need or want remap for that
[13:36:25] <marmite> so what is a good beginner spindle that can handle aluminium milling ? ^^
[13:36:25] <Connor> and Z axis movement
[13:36:40] <cradek> hm, what Z axis movement is needed for the tool change?
[13:36:49] <PetefromTn> head lifts up off tool.
[13:36:49] <_methods> zhome
[13:37:01] <cradek> oh, not a usual swing arm then
[13:37:05] <jsskangas> IchGuckLive: Where in Germany, my friend lives in Leibzig
[13:37:07] <_methods> lots of mills do that
[13:37:09] <cradek> remap might help you then
[13:37:26] <jsskangas> Leipzig
[13:37:42] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSXR3FsN0EE
[13:37:50] <PetefromTn> That is the exact same machine I have.
[13:38:13] <Connor> Yea. carousel index to empty slot, arm swings carousel under head raises, carousel index to next tool, Z lowers, carousel swings out.
[13:38:14] <PetefromTn> Only mine is not the freakin' cool Batman Black.
[13:38:18] <cradek> ah ok
[13:38:29] <cradek> usually this is called an umbrella type
[13:38:51] <cradek> knowing this, I agree with connor that remap will probably be the easier way to do the tool changer
[13:38:53] <PetefromTn> yeah sorry.
[13:39:06] <PetefromTn> then how can I fix my issues?
[13:39:16] <cradek> upgrade to current master
[13:39:24] <PetefromTn> Do you think upgrading to the newest master will help>
[13:39:25] <cradek> undo whatever units hackery and build a fully inch config
[13:39:26] <Connor> First, I need to look and make sure my modification didn't break anything.. 2nd, upgrade to latest head
[13:39:34] <_methods> did that arrow have the anilam controller?
[13:39:42] <PetefromTn> Nope.
[13:39:52] <PetefromTn> Emerson Control techniques.
[13:39:56] <_methods> ah
[13:40:03] <cradek> well let me say this - if you run recent master and it still doesn't work right, it will get fixed
[13:40:03] <_methods> the arrow 2 had anilam?
[13:40:11] <_methods> never remember
[13:40:13] <cradek> that is the only answer I can give about whether it will help you
[13:40:15] <jsskangas> cradek: I think I will make fres intall of 2.5
[13:40:31] <Connor> Exactly.. :)
[13:40:31] <PetefromTn> that is what I want to hear man thanks,,,
[13:40:35] <cradek> jsskangas: realize you will need network access either way?
[13:40:39] <jsskangas> i will copy hal and ini and everything else can go
[13:40:48] <cradek> ok yep, that'll work
[13:41:10] <Connor> PetefromTn: Honestly, ethernet cable probably better in long run than the wireless dongle.. USB can cause latency issues.. unlike ethernet.
[13:41:12] <PetefromTn> What is involved with moving to latest master do I need to start over?
[13:41:12] <jsskangas> yeas when i update from 2.5.0 to .3
[13:41:40] <cradek> PetefromTn: I still don't know if you have a bug in your 2012 master version, or connor's change is messing with you, or if you're just doing something wrong :-/
[13:42:04] <PetefromTn> yeah I know I don't know either.
[13:42:05] <Connor> cradek: Yea, that's why I need to go over to his house sometime soon and look at it.
[13:42:09] <cradek> but if we can eliminate two of those three problems right off, that's gotta help
[13:42:29] <_methods> ah the acramatic controller that's what those things used to have
[13:42:35] <_methods> with teh crazy work offset system
[13:42:41] <cradek> when you get those straightened out I'll help you again to not "do something wrong"
[13:42:43] <PetefromTn> I did basically do EXACTLY what TOM did on the touch off the other night and it did not work for me like it did for him.
[13:43:11] <cradek> haha, I almost asked you were you were
[13:43:15] <cradek> where you were
[13:43:41] <Connor> who ? Me, Pete ?
[13:43:46] <cradek> PetefromTn
[13:43:51] <PetefromTn> yeah.
[13:43:52] <cradek> I assume he's in TN
[13:43:57] <cradek> that's what makes it funny
[13:43:57] <PetefromTn> LOL yeah.
[13:44:04] <cradek> doh
[13:44:07] <PetefromTn> where RU?
[13:44:31] <Connor> Ha. He's in Maryville, TN I'm in Knoxville, TN about 30 or 45 min away
[13:44:44] <PetefromTn> are you that far
[13:44:58] <Jymmm> Connor: Walmart, Target, and Safeway all have grocery delivery. Might make domestic chores slightly easier for you.
[13:45:02] <PetefromTn> I thought you were like 20 min?
[13:45:06] <cradek> I drove past last summer, but that's a long way from me
[13:45:10] <Connor> Jymmm: I'll have to look into it.
[13:45:25] <cradek> we could figure it out pretty darn quick if I was there.
[13:45:27] <Connor> PetefromTn: I don't remember.. been a few months since I drove..
[13:45:32] <PetefromTn> what do they charge to deliver groceries?
[13:46:00] <Jymmm> PetefromTn: Usually its a minimum rder plus $4-$7
[13:46:03] <Connor> Jymmm: Thanks. Biggest issue is making sure they carry our Sobe Drinks..
[13:46:21] <PetefromTn> no shit that is not bad at all.. Probably pay more than that for gas..
[13:46:26] <Jymmm> Connor: Just makes sure you say NO SUBSTITUES on those items
[13:46:38] <Connor> I wouldn't use target right now if you paid me.. not sure we have a safeway, so that leaves Walmart.
[13:46:59] <Jymmm> Connor: 70 Million others would agree with you =)
[13:47:37] <Jymmm> Connor: I think the first delivery is free too
[13:47:48] <Connor> Well Crap. We're sorry...We don't currently deliver or offer pickup to 37922.
[13:49:06] <_methods> schwans
[13:49:12] <_methods> they always deliver
[13:49:13] <_methods> hehe
[13:49:15] <Jymmm> Connor: http://mobilemarketdelivers.com/
[13:49:55] <PetefromTn> Oh well I would love to get these offset issues taken care of on the machine as I have a fellow who wants me to bid some good looking jobs here. I am gonna talk to my son in law about getting an ethernet cable out there and until then if you get some spare time connor and want to come over I will try to make your plate or whatever while you tinker with the machine. Do you have a drawing for it or something?
[13:49:58] <Connor> Yup.. You know what's funny? I HOSTED them for a few months.. Lady who runs it loved me.. Husband got impatient or something and switched to someone else.. Ticked me off..
[13:50:22] <Jymmm> Connor: Well, here's your chance to fight back! lol
[13:50:31] <_methods> you got wifi?
[13:50:45] <Connor> Yes, but his dongle gave us fits.. apparently not supported under linux.
[13:50:47] <PetefromTn> yeah but we were having issues with the USB wifi dongle
[13:50:53] <_methods> yeah dont' dongle
[13:51:00] <_methods> get a wifi ap
[13:51:02] <PetefromTn> LOL he said Dongle..
[13:51:04] <_methods> then run ethernet
[13:51:07] <_methods> hehe
[13:51:18] <_methods> tn-w702 or whatever
[13:51:25] <_methods> it'ls like $15
[13:51:33] <Connor> yea.. I have a USB dongle *I* use that's supported
[13:51:47] <_methods> tl-2r702n
[13:51:48] <Jymmm> Connor: The nice thing is you can save hours on driving, shopping, making a list, driveing back, unloading.
[13:51:56] <_methods> tl-wr702n
[13:52:18] <PetefromTn> My son in law works for Charter so I think he can probably custom make me a cable when he comes over but he is kinda busy.
[13:52:20] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR702N-Wireless-Repeater-150Mpbs/dp/B007PTCFFW
[13:52:35] <Tom_itx> Jymmm you don't get to select your own goods though
[13:52:52] <Connor> Jymmm: Yea. every little bit helps.. Need to see about getting her on disability so we can get a house keeper to clean
[13:53:00] <_methods> dirt cheap and gives you ethernet for those pesky no dongle times lol
[13:53:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Certain places are better when it comes to produce/meat selection
[13:53:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: some are not.
[13:53:52] <PetefromTn> I am sure we could probably get that dongle to work but I suffer from Linux OS DUMBASS>
[13:54:18] <_methods> and this works for me out of the box on the linuxcnc distro
[13:54:20] <_methods> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833704045
[13:54:21] <skunkworks> if it doesn't 'just work' it will most likely be a pain...
[13:54:24] <Connor> PetefromTn: The adapter plate basicly 4" round with a step, 3 holes for the chuck and 4 slots for the table.. I drew something up a while back.. but, had issues with my computer.. probably would be best to take measurements and redo it.
[13:54:37] <_methods> that one worked right out of the box
[13:55:16] <_methods> which is unusual for linux and wifi
[13:55:24] <_methods> usually a 4 hour battle
[13:55:30] <PetefromTn> Okay man just lemme know. Understand no pressure here you don't owe me shit but if you want to help I would appreciate it. If I can help you at the same time we're good.
[13:55:31] <_methods> ndis-wrapper bullshit
[13:55:32] <Connor> The one I had was rather old.
[13:55:55] <PetefromTn> yeah we were trying the NDSwrapper bullshit.
[13:56:01] <_methods> heheh
[13:56:06] <_methods> yeah that ole chestnut
[13:56:09] <Connor> and worked out of the box too.. I bought if for a micro linux board for a robot.
[13:56:31] <_methods> it's a crap shoot with wifi
[13:56:34] <_methods> even pci cards
[13:56:41] <PetefromTn> Then I'll trade ya mine for it LOL.
[13:57:16] <Loetmichel> 7me has a $5 wifi usbplug in the pocket.
[13:57:19] <PetefromTn> That dongle works great actually for my desktop in the other room. No issues at alll.
[13:57:29] <Loetmichel> working ootb even with an ubuntu 10.04 ;-)
[13:57:41] <Connor> If he can run ethernet for cheap.. I wouldn't bother.. I would have mine wired if I didn't have to go under the house to do it.. I have all kinds of ethernet in my house.. just not out in the shop.
[13:57:45] <_methods> yeah find one that works with bsd
[13:57:54] <_methods> if it works with bsd it will work on anything lol
[13:58:23] <_methods> i did the powerline ethernet out in my garage
[13:58:34] <Loetmichel> Connor: make a small tracked robot and let him tow the cat 7 under your house to the garage ;-)
[13:58:36] <PetefromTn> I would probably just make a chord that runs far enough and leave it coiled up near the router in the house until we need it in the shop. Don't feel like running it under the house either.
[13:58:56] <Connor> One nehind my TV, one behind my couch, one behind the bed in bedroom, 2 in wifes office, 2 at built in desk in my office.
[13:58:58] <PetefromTn> LOL I got my daughter an RC crawler for Christmas would work .
[13:59:25] <PetefromTn> That think kicks ass....
[13:59:42] <Connor> all coming to 2 outlets at my desk in my office.
[14:00:22] <Connor> oh, and one in bedroom behind tv too..
[14:00:29] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoJ5QmOToH4
[14:00:30] <Connor> All Cat5E
[14:00:43] <PetefromTn> So pop one out and bring it over LOL
[14:01:09] <Connor> I have a 25 or 50' patch cable that would work for you.
[14:01:24] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn:my last apprenice started a project (which sadly he never finished) Take a $ 50 moving wlan cam, a cable controlled toy excavator, marry the parts....
[14:01:53] <Loetmichel> ... write a tablet "website" to control the whole thing.
[14:02:11] <PetefromTn> Connor: is it the right kind for what we need?
[14:02:14] <Loetmichel> he got this far: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12144
[14:02:34] <PetefromTn> Loetmichel: Interesting.
[14:02:55] <Connor> patch cable really what you want if your not going to run it under house or in addict.. Patch cable has stranded wire, primes wire is solid.. doesn't like to be kinked, walked on etc.. can break the internal wires too easily.
[14:03:11] <Loetmichel> was meant to crawl 100mm plastic sewage tubes though
[14:03:13] <PetefromTn> I love taking the RC Crawler and putting it out the front door and sitting by the window and driving it all over the neighborhood while keeping warm in the house LOL.
[14:03:21] <Loetmichel> used as cable conduit
[14:03:58] <PetefromTn> My son in law uses the blue stuff. kinda like fat telephone cables.
[14:04:17] <Loetmichel> Connor: i have trhowm about 300meters cat5e patch here in my flat in the walls
[14:04:30] <Loetmichel> because it was less hassle than to buy two kinds of wire ;-)
[14:04:52] <PetefromTn> OOOOOH OOOOH the brown santa has arrived!!
[14:04:55] <Connor> PetefromTn: Yea.. that could be primes OR patch cable.. if he installs it, it's primes.
[14:05:19] <Connor> it'll be a bit stiffer than patch would be.
[14:07:08] <PetefromTn> AAWWWEEESSSOOOMMMMMEEEE!! MY new toolholders have arrived!!
[14:14:43] <_methods> sweet now go make some chips hhehe
[14:16:39] <PetefromTn> Hey man these things look SWEET!
[14:17:10] <Connor> PetefromTn: You would think we could find Alum CHEAP because of Alcoa ... :)
[14:17:15] <PetefromTn> I wound up getting ten holders in all.
[14:17:36] <PetefromTn> I got five pieces of short gauge length Cat40 Er32's
[14:18:04] <PetefromTn> I got five pieces of Cat40 ER20's two long gauge length and the rest short.
[14:18:29] <PetefromTn> I also got a 12 piece ER32 collet set and some assorted ER 20's...
[14:19:01] <PetefromTn> Ordered it wednesday around 3pm got it today just now. Sweet.
[14:19:25] <PetefromTn> Connor: Yeah exactly right. Actually from what I understand they make sheet good there..
[14:55:52] <skunkworks> the control on the matsuura is odd.. You hit the power button and the control boots up.. then you hit the power button again to enable the drives. (bring it out of estop)
[14:58:39] <_methods> yeah i used to work on an enshu horizontal like that
[15:02:08] <skunkworks> it is a yasnac control
[15:02:10] <_methods> does the matsuura have yasnac
[15:02:12] <_methods> yeah yasnac
[15:02:15] <_methods> hehe
[15:02:16] <skunkworks> heh
[15:02:41] <skunkworks> the thing booted - we need to get the configuration out of it before the battery goes dead
[15:03:37] <cradek> think the yasnac on the jr had a tape punch interface...
[15:03:40] <PetefromTn> I have spoken to a fellow who has nothing but Matsuura with Yasnac controls and he LOVES them.
[15:04:10] <skunkworks> cradek, this one has a serial port
[15:04:21] <skunkworks> (and a punch tape_
[15:04:33] <cradek> cool
[15:04:51] <skunkworks> well - if it has lasted this long...
[15:04:58] <skunkworks> (this is an 84)
[15:05:39] <skunkworks> dad got an operators manual today for it... It seems to be sheding a lot of light on how things work.
[15:06:18] <cradek> too bad the control works. you'd be happier with it in the long run if it hadn't.
[15:06:24] <skunkworks> like why the manual tool chain stuff doesn't work. (the spindle has to be in the locked postion..)
[15:06:33] <cradek> but it's cheaper/simpler for today if it does
[15:06:35] <skunkworks> cradek, yes...
[15:06:48] <skunkworks> I was a little upset about it ;)
[15:07:02] <skunkworks> but this allows us to see exactly how things are working....
[15:07:13] <cradek> yep
[15:09:08] <_methods> i don't love yasnac but it wasn't as bad as mazatrol
[15:09:26] <_methods> not sure why anyone likes the mazak insanity
[15:09:49] <skunkworks> honestly would not be a bad conversion... It is pretty simple and all the drives and stuff works.
[15:10:08] <skunkworks> (compared to the K&T
[15:10:10] <skunkworks> )
[15:14:17] <PetefromTn> OT Anyone know where they keep the contacts in a Samsung Galaxy Blaze phone I need to do a hard reboot to my wife's phone and I can't find it in file browser.
[15:15:23] <PetefromTn> wanted to take the stuff off and load it onto her laptop so we don't lose anything.
[15:19:33] <PetefromTn> Nevermind I found it.
[16:12:37] <jsskangas> cradek: I did try this new tuning on servos just using p ff1 ff2
[16:12:55] <jsskangas> I got litlle pit beter
[16:12:58] <jsskangas> results
[16:14:19] <jsskangas> but no as I changed output scale from 1 to 280, it does not put out more than 0,0295V
[16:18:40] <PCW> if you change the output scale you need to scale your PID parameters proportionally
[16:19:53] <PCW> make sure that the PID output is not limited
[16:24:06] <jsskangas> OK Now I already came in side, I will take some good gocnac and watch some tv
[16:24:38] <Deejay> gn8
[16:24:40] <andypugh> jsskangas: VNC means you can do all 3.
[16:25:04] <jsskangas> ok I hato tell that before changing output scale it did put out full voltage
[16:25:22] <jsskangas> heh
[16:25:49] <jsskangas> first I need to get it running again with new pid tuning
[16:27:04] <jsskangas> where and when output scale affects
[16:27:17] <jsskangas> after pid output???
[16:28:35] <jsskangas> andypugh, i will set up terminal and camera as i get new inverter, index oming proplem and tool changer to work
[16:29:20] <andypugh> I have never really been brave enough to do that, I do occasinally turn the lights off and leave a job running though.
[16:31:43] <jsskangas> I have longest runing was 28 hours
[16:32:02] <jsskangas> I went to bed in good feelingsd
[16:39:24] <MrSunshine> he looks like he is aight but this is a gruesome reminder of the hazards of lathes .. quite lucky one =) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9grSq-TWMQ
[16:39:40] <andypugh> <not clicking>
[16:41:00] <MrSunshine> no gore realy just a guy getting sucked in by his sleaves...
[16:41:09] <MrSunshine> "just"
[16:41:33] <andypugh> Yeah, don't need to see that.
[16:42:03] <MrSunshine> hehe
[16:42:55] <andypugh> I am made of squeam
[17:03:45] <diepchess> impressive books that gingery series
[17:05:06] <diepchess> got plenty of charcoal here ;)
[17:06:46] <diepchess> metal can explode however if you pour it and water gets in contact with it when you pour
[17:07:30] <diepchess> is bit of a problem here
[17:07:52] <diepchess> so a 'just for fun' project there asks bit for trouble
[17:09:47] <Jymmm> Why a BRB (BIG RED BUTTON) needs to be within reach at all times, and not subject to computer control.
[17:11:05] <diepchess> would be cool to pour some metal and build a huge CNC from it
[17:11:09] <Jymmm> Damn,, they couldn't even get him off the lathe till they unchucked the rod.
[17:11:56] <Jymmm> diepchess: still have to wait a few years to use it
[17:12:43] <diepchess> well i cheat with my mill a tad then jymm
[17:13:16] <diepchess> the manual proces would be the pouring
[17:13:33] <diepchess> getting it to right size cut, the finish of it, can use a mill
[17:13:57] <Jymmm> it's the casting that has to settle, as I think thats what BP do
[17:14:20] <diepchess> yeah pouring probably is a special expertise
[17:14:35] <diepchess> melting metal is tough
[17:14:47] <diepchess> those buckets to put melted metal in, they're just 20 euro a piece here
[17:15:01] <diepchess> well to put scrap in and melt it i should say more accurate ;)
[17:15:03] <Jymmm> that's easy, it's getting the proper results thats a bitch =)
[17:15:09] <diepchess> i bet
[17:15:20] <diepchess> well he writes honestely took him 20 years to get right ;)
[17:15:45] <diepchess> i'm reading it actually to get an impression of his methods and thinking
[17:16:01] <diepchess> the interesting book he wrote from my viewpoint is how to build an injection molding machine
[17:16:15] <diepchess> which he did write when he was old already
[17:16:33] <diepchess> if you google around it's one of the FEW books on how to build an injection molding machine
[17:16:56] <diepchess> there is of course big indepth researches on very tiny details regarding injection molding ;)
[17:17:28] <diepchess> the milling machine he built, i don't really understand how it loks like
[17:17:36] <diepchess> let's google a tad
[17:18:19] <diepchess> looks more like some addition to his lathe if i see it correct?
[17:19:08] <diepchess> another thing i don't erally understand how he got it right
[17:19:15] <diepchess> that's his wooden models
[17:19:24] <diepchess> i milled accurately some fire wood
[17:19:39] <diepchess> it was seemingly around 0.01 mm error
[17:19:51] <diepchess> i measured it a few weeks later
[17:19:55] <diepchess> and 0.1 mm off ;)
[17:20:04] <diepchess> wood works
[17:20:11] <diepchess> how the hell did he get that right?
[17:20:51] <diepchess> he must've build them really oversized
[17:21:06] <diepchess> and sanded off until the parts were really correct size
[17:21:46] <diepchess> charcoal can heat things up to 2700C
[17:21:54] <diepchess> those buckets go till 1200C
[17:23:37] <diepchess> regrettably i cannot experiment here melting just 1 small part from scrap
[17:23:46] <diepchess> there is trees in the garden...
[17:23:59] <diepchess> there is always the risk of water falling down
[17:24:27] <diepchess> did Gingery live at a farm?
[17:24:35] <diepchess> with enough space?
[17:25:06] <diepchess> in one of the books i read 'garage' he wrote there
[17:25:58] <diepchess> genius guy
[17:29:05] <andypugh> diepchess: Have you seen the Lionel Oliver website?
[17:30:10] <andypugh> I will agree that molten metal and water mix badly. My mum got splashed with molten lead when we were making window frames because one of the bits of scrap pipe wasn't dry.
[17:30:40] <andypugh> And I have a small scar from putting a slightly wet bit of steel into a bath of molten sodium hydroxide.
[17:31:32] <MrSunshine> ive also had a steam explosion using salt and damp metal
[17:31:38] <MrSunshine> never had any with aluminium tho
[17:32:03] <MrSunshine> was lucky that time i had my glasses on (before i was smart enough to be causious) ... glasses was splattered with molten salt ...
[17:32:13] <MrSunshine> t-shirt was full of holes
[17:32:17] <andypugh> So, why were _you_ putting damp metal into molten salt?
[17:32:18] <MrSunshine> and alot of burnmarks on arms etc
[17:32:29] <MrSunshine> andypugh, i thought it was dry, as i had dried it before
[17:32:41] <MrSunshine> but then set it away and then was putting it in the salt bath
[17:32:46] <andypugh> More a question of why the molten salt.
[17:32:49] <MrSunshine> and aprently it had contacted water
[17:32:55] <MrSunshine> andypugh, hardening knife blades
[17:33:01] <MrSunshine> very uniform heat
[17:33:02] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[17:33:10] <andypugh> Similar to me.
[17:33:25] <andypugh> I was developing a new steel alloy for springs.
[17:33:44] <MrSunshine> blew a 1" firebrick clean in half and threw them like 3 meters in each direction from the blast
[17:33:48] <MrSunshine> was qite energetic =)
[17:34:14] <skunkworks> wow - it is nice having a laptop that doesn't feel like it is burning up when running linuxcnc in simulator
[17:35:02] <andypugh> I can't remember exactly why the metal had the chance to be wet. The process was normally red-hot metal quenched into molten metal, (the "patenting" process)
[17:35:27] <andypugh> Err-- molten salt. Though molten lead does actually work.
[17:36:29] <MrSunshine> so "quenched" ad like 350 Deg C? =)
[17:36:56] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:36:58] <andypugh> http://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/MPC/PAGES/MPC20120006.htm
[17:37:01] <MrSunshine> interesting
[17:37:12] <MrSunshine> i guess .. why not
[17:37:15] <andypugh> Are you familar with the TTT diagram for carbon steel?
[17:38:13] <andypugh> If not, here it is: http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~wkaufmyn/ENGN45/ENGN45_Online_Homework/10_Homework_Kinetics_SOLUTIONS_files/TTT_0pt77C.JPG
[17:38:51] <MrSunshine> never been very in depth with steel heat treating =)
[17:39:16] <andypugh> Imagine your ideal result is right on the boundary between pearlite and bainite
[17:40:52] <MrSunshine> so insted of quenching it down to cold making only bainite you quench it at 400 and never let it form alot of bainite ? =)
[17:41:05] <andypugh> You need to quench super-rapidly from 80C past the "nose" of the diagram, then hold 400C until transformation is complete. It turns out that Sodium Hydroxide has both a very high conductivity and specific heat _and_ is transparent to IR. So it's a really good quenchant.
[17:41:25] <andypugh> (err, 800C)
[17:42:16] <andypugh> Yes, the ideal result is the finest possible pearlite, which we then cold-rolled to heck to make super-strong material.
[17:43:36] <MrSunshine> =) ive heard of similiar or what i should call it, about steel being quenched to like 150 degrees then held there insted of quenched down to totaly cold then heated again but dont know why .. some steels aparently like being treated that way insted of going dead hard =)
[17:44:00] <MrSunshine> andypugh, nice bit of information atleast always cool to learn some new stuff =)
[17:45:07] <andypugh> I managed 3GPa, but the proper Sendzemir mills could get 4GPa with the same process.
[17:45:44] <diepchess> andypugh i'll have a look
[17:46:26] <andypugh> Because you can get more intense pressure with a small-diameter roller a Senzemir mill uses a small roller supported by 2 bigger backup rollers supported by 2 each bigger still: This picture is with the actual work rollers removed: http://www.galaxiecorp.com/sites/default/files/styles/uc_product_full/public/Sendzimir_2.JPG%3Fitok%3Dg2bTWVFb
[17:47:45] <diepchess> andypugh that's a website with enough to read for months to come ;)
[17:48:26] <diepchess> andypugh i wold be interested whether it would be possible to melt iron or steel
[17:48:38] <diepchess> so not just some alloy
[17:48:46] <andypugh> Yes, Lionel Oliver has done it, backyardmetalcasting
[17:48:58] <diepchess> as basically all websites do metal yet nothing above 1200C
[17:49:09] <diepchess> and i would be doing tiny objects
[17:49:23] <MrSunshine> i have successfully melted cast iron using a HHO burner .. tho not very much of it :P
[17:49:35] <andypugh> http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/cupola01.html
[17:49:41] <diepchess> however only can do in garage and odds i am allowed to do anything there. i hear the comments: "WHAAAATTTTT WERE YOU THINKINGGGGG"
[17:50:11] <diepchess> yeah i know a bit about fires
[17:50:13] <diepchess> small fires
[17:50:29] <MrSunshine> how old are you ? =)
[17:50:33] <diepchess> but molten metal inside it....
[17:50:44] <diepchess> possibly i'm a bit older than most guess here
[17:51:34] <MrSunshine> just asking so you arent like 11 and going to go out play with molten metal =)
[17:51:40] <diepchess> the garage has concrete here
[17:51:50] <diepchess> i'm 40 FYI
[17:52:01] <MrSunshine> ahh ok =)
[17:52:06] <diepchess> so i would need to put a layer on top of the concrete
[17:52:11] <diepchess> means weeks of preparation
[17:52:18] <diepchess> means the car not inside ;)
[17:52:20] <MrSunshine> concrete can be a bit tricky with metal also .. binds alot of water =)
[17:52:48] <diepchess> yeah i had concluded already that i cannot do it at home :)
[17:52:52] <diepchess> nor in my office
[17:53:09] <diepchess> the garden is impossible - water everywhere from trees
[17:53:41] <diepchess> so even a tiny experiment not gonna happen doh
[17:53:51] <MrSunshine> i melt metal and pour it outside .. never had any incidents with metal like i said ... molten salt tho seems to be a tricky beast =)
[17:54:10] <diepchess> am not close to ocean
[17:54:39] <diepchess> first 6 kilometers lots of salt in the air and it settles on anything
[17:55:33] <MrSunshine> the salt im talking about is salt just molten to like 1200 deg C for heat treating . dont think speckles of salt will be a problem :P
[17:56:27] <diepchess> somehow i have impression that melttemperatures over 1200C give yet another range of problems :)
[17:56:40] <andypugh> FliNaK melts at about 120C, it would be the perfect quenchant were it not for the molten fluorine salts :-)
[17:57:49] <diepchess> what's interesting is to hear something about accuracies that David Gingery ever achieved
[17:57:56] <diepchess> like runouts of his 4 jaw chuck
[17:58:05] <andypugh> Google tells me I am wrong. 454C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLiNaK
[17:58:08] <diepchess> and the linear X Y movement he achieved
[17:58:31] <diepchess> over here the guys melting things use gasinstallations
[17:58:37] <diepchess> not charcoal nor coals ;)
[17:59:17] <diepchess> maybe i should teamup with a guy who knows about melting and wants to build some sort of CNC type creations
[17:59:27] <diepchess> using his melting skills
[17:59:29] <andypugh> Gas is easier, and won't run out half way through the melt.
[17:59:53] <andypugh> I _think_ that the foundry I use burns oil.
[18:00:12] <diepchess> you're in the USA?
[18:00:41] <diepchess> the interesting thing is
[18:00:46] <diepchess> objects can be easily 3d printed here
[18:00:54] <diepchess> i just throw the models in 3d printer
[18:01:07] <diepchess> assemble it
[18:01:11] <diepchess> sand it a little
[18:01:25] <andypugh> No, I am in the UK. And I can't 3D-print iron.
[18:01:37] <diepchess> the model can be 3d printed
[18:01:44] <andypugh> This guy charges about £20 per part. http://www.ajdfoundries.co.uk
[18:02:16] <diepchess> wow that's not much
[18:02:19] <andypugh> diepchess: Did you see this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
[18:02:31] <diepchess> well i'm busy with a CNC design
[18:02:44] <diepchess> some parts if you can melt them into shape a little
[18:02:55] <diepchess> and then i need to really mill off a little to get it right shape
[18:02:59] <diepchess> that would be brilliant
[18:03:56] <andypugh> The casting here cost me £45 from ajd foundry, but it is fairly big: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwoD2vZUl0
[18:04:21] <diepchess> looks something i cannot afford andypugh that youtube
[18:04:38] <diepchess> how many liters is the object in volume andypugh?
[18:04:58] <andypugh> Yes, a friend in the deposition business reckoned 100k for the 3kW laser.
[18:05:49] <diepchess> looks huge and heavy
[18:06:53] <andypugh> So, while I can pay small amounts of money and get a really good casting back, I am not too interested in distracting myself with a home metal casting setup :-)
[18:07:07] <diepchess> neither am i
[18:07:11] <diepchess> yet figuring it out
[18:07:14] <diepchess> is interesting
[18:07:25] <diepchess> if i go to shops here
[18:07:29] <diepchess> to get things done
[18:07:33] <diepchess> they usually charge a lot to me
[18:07:45] <diepchess> visited THK factory in this city
[18:07:48] <diepchess> DANG
[18:07:49] <diepchess> ;)
[18:08:15] <diepchess> mitutoyo also in this city has a factory
[18:08:33] <diepchess> though not sure they produce anything here
[18:09:41] <diepchess> so what do you hand the stores andypugh?
[18:09:45] <diepchess> just a CAD model?
[18:09:53] <diepchess> or a wooden model of what you want?
[18:10:04] <_methods> nice turning on horizontal
[18:10:04] <diepchess> and you get back the metal object?
[18:10:05] <andypugh> I give the foundry a wooden pattern
[18:10:19] <diepchess> so you do not give them a CAD yet really the object
[18:10:37] <diepchess> makes sense
[18:11:13] <andypugh> Yeah, it's a really scruffy factory unit in Birmingham. He might not even have a computer.
[18:13:24] <andypugh> This is the foundry :-) http://goo.gl/maps/kK55v
[18:13:47] <andypugh> But the prices are good and the results are good.
[18:13:48] <_methods> holy fuck
[18:14:01] <_methods> they actually have a foundry in there
[18:14:26] <diepchess> i googled
[18:14:32] <diepchess> seems in this city no melting of iron
[18:14:37] <diepchess> that's more to the coast they do it
[18:14:47] <diepchess> or to the east
[18:14:57] <diepchess> yeah well
[18:15:12] <andypugh> I am a few hundred miles from AJ, but I have a friend who lives locally.
[18:15:22] <diepchess> shipment costs big pain ;)
[18:16:01] <diepchess> well there is a store here that sells iron/steel for not too much
[18:16:07] <diepchess> i can build stuff from that with some bolts ;)
[18:16:54] <_methods> there's hardly any power lines coming into there
[18:16:55] <diepchess> price of the construction things is like 1.5 euro a kilo
[18:17:32] <diepchess> _methods coals are so much cheaper
[18:17:38] <diepchess> 80 dollar a ton nowadays
[18:18:09] <diepchess> electricity prices are so much higher than that
[18:18:14] <diepchess> what's a megawatt doing these days
[18:18:16] <diepchess> 50 euro or so?
[18:18:32] <diepchess> a ton of coals is in theory like 12 megawatt in terms of heat
[18:18:37] <_methods> well i would figure they would need power for supporting stuff
[18:18:44] <andypugh> I don't know what the Euro to Dollar rate is :-)
[18:19:00] <_methods> not just for the smelt
[18:19:07] <diepchess> use 1.35 simply
[18:19:37] <diepchess> _methods if you already burn so much coals - easy to generate your own power
[18:19:45] <_methods> i guess so
[18:20:19] <_methods> heh now in the states you could never have a foundry anywhere like that
[18:20:25] <_methods> EPA would be all over you
[18:20:43] <andypugh> We have rules here too.
[18:21:21] <_methods> wow i'd love to check out that sheet metal shop
[18:21:40] <_methods> looks liek a big shop
[18:22:02] <diepchess> aren't those in every city _methods?
[18:22:08] <_methods> sure
[18:22:15] <_methods> but i love lookin at other shops
[18:22:23] <_methods> you learn so much from every place you see
[18:22:58] <andypugh> I visited Roger last night, now he has a nice home workshop.
[18:23:25] <andypugh> He's building a 1/4 scale Ferrari F1 engine.
[18:23:36] <_methods> ha nice
[18:23:55] <diepchess> titanium?
[18:24:10] <andypugh> Yeah, mainly.
[18:24:13] <_methods> nice little industrial area there
[18:26:07] <andypugh> This is his (LinuxCNC ) lathe making a titanium valve collet: http://youtu.be/nOPW4-WRRMs
[18:26:36] <_methods> holy toolpost batman
[18:28:40] <diepchess> hehehe this oliver simply uses an axe to hammer into pieces objects he wants to melt :)
[18:29:05] <_methods> hey what is that tool holder system he's using there?
[18:29:07] <diepchess> i already wondered how he did do that :) http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/ironcasting01.html
[18:30:20] <_methods> wow please tell him not to put his hands in there lol
[18:30:26] <diepchess> "I plan to buy safety clothing "
[18:31:15] <_methods> haha that's some screw machine work right there
[18:31:37] <andypugh> _methods: it's a little HSK taper
[18:31:40] <_methods> haha his name is roger moore
[18:31:48] <cradek> what's a valve collet?
[18:31:52] <_methods> i'll have to check that out
[18:32:01] <andypugh> It's the collet from a valve :-)
[18:32:02] <_methods> would work well on some of our manual machiens
[18:32:03] <diepchess> You were calling me?
[18:32:44] <diepchess> oliver is pouring iron
[18:32:51] <diepchess> what is his bucket made out of?
[18:35:34] <andypugh> cradek: More seriously, it's hard to describe if you haven't seen one. It might be that you call them a "valve keeper" in the US.
[18:37:16] <cradek> oh it's the split thing, but not split yet
[18:38:24] <cradek> I was seeing it as just a cylinder
[18:39:25] <_methods> yeah hsk tooling still isn't very common in the us
[18:39:33] <_methods> we dont' like change
[18:40:00] <_methods> if it's not cat40 or cat50.......
[18:40:09] <andypugh> He got something like 20 holders for a silly price from a guy in the US because of that. (they are also a really little HSK)
[18:40:32] <_methods> yeah
[18:41:00] <_methods> i used to work on some german machine that used them
[18:41:12] <_methods> was always a pain in the ass we never had enough holder
[18:41:24] <zeeshan> help me find a 24"x16"x9" enclosure!
[18:41:26] <_methods> charon
[18:41:31] <zeeshan> cheap
[18:41:39] <_methods> i don't think charon is even in business anymore lol
[18:42:40] <_methods> chiron
[18:42:52] <andypugh> ebay for "Rittal"
[18:43:00] <_methods> heh i guess they are still around
[18:43:30] <_methods> that machine was a pile o' poo
[18:48:41] <diepchess> well oliver managed building his lathe...
[18:49:52] <andypugh> zeeshan: http://www.fibox.com/catalogs/Search.taf?_function=detail&_listcall=2&pg_id=183&Product_uid1=1232&_UserReference=19AD6C7E2F67F1FC512476D8
[18:50:13] <zeeshan> cost?
[18:50:13] <zeeshan> :D
[18:50:16] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/EECF38DC-A75E-44E0-8783-FBA0D37B986F-3045-0000044F546F7A0C.jpg
[18:50:22] <zeeshan> this 12x12x6 cost me $20
[18:50:24] <zeeshan> brand new
[18:50:29] <zeeshan> they have 24x24x6
[18:50:34] <zeeshan> but that doesnt meet my depth beeds =[
[18:50:36] <zeeshan> *needs
[18:51:54] <andypugh> zeeshan: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/general-purpose-enclosures/5093423/
[18:52:05] <diepchess> what's this diagram about zeeshan? http://s130.photobucket.com/user/turbozee84/media/EECF38DC-A75E-44E0-8783-FBA0D37B986F-3045-0000044F546F7A0C.jpg.html#/user/turbozee84/media/calc2_zps324fb6e4.png.html?&_suid=139181975676208839057702853207
[18:52:17] <zeeshan> andypugh: damn thats expensive
[18:52:23] <zeeshan> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Enclosures/Metal/NEMA_1/Single_Door_Wall_Mount/N1C162008LP
[18:52:26] <zeeshan> thats the cherapest ive found
[18:52:42] <andypugh> diepchess: It's a turbocharger performance plot
[18:52:42] <zeeshan> diepchess: efficiency map for a compressor
[18:52:57] <andypugh> Or that :-)
[18:53:02] <zeeshan> youre right
[18:53:04] <diepchess> oh pressure is in psi?
[18:53:20] <zeeshan> performance is sometimes measured through eff.
[18:53:23] <zeeshan> diepchess: no
[18:53:27] <andypugh> bar?
[18:53:37] <diepchess> impossible
[18:53:45] <zeeshan> its pressure ratio. its pr = turbo boost pressure / atmospheric pressure
[18:53:53] <zeeshan> so if you're running 20psi of boost
[18:53:56] <zeeshan> 20/14.7
[18:54:01] <zeeshan> or do it in bar, whatever you like :P
[18:54:10] <zeeshan> then add + 1 to it
[18:54:25] <andypugh> 4.5 bar is 60psi
[18:54:53] <zeeshan> that'd blow something up on an engine
[18:54:53] <zeeshan> haha
[18:54:58] <andypugh> The big numbers are rpm?
[18:55:09] <zeeshan> the left most linear line is the surge line
[18:55:14] <zeeshan> thats the compressor rpm
[18:55:43] <andypugh> (I calibrate turbo diesels for a living, it's all rather familiar ;-)
[18:55:44] <zeeshan> the blue dots i plotted are my engines airflow requirements at 8psi
[18:56:07] <zeeshan> so i need a 33lbs/min of air
[18:56:13] <zeeshan> 33lbs/min * 10 = hp
[18:56:17] <andypugh> In that case I would say that's the wrong turbo for your engine :-)
[18:56:19] <zeeshan> then i have two turbos!
[18:56:32] <zeeshan> yea but 8psi is the min limit
[18:56:36] <zeeshan> i run 15psi
[18:56:53] <andypugh> I actually have no idea what we run.
[18:56:55] <zeeshan> car made like 650bhp
[18:57:08] <andypugh> It's not part of my job.
[18:57:23] <zeeshan> cars a re a waste of money
[18:57:25] <zeeshan> lol
[18:57:31] <zeeshan> i spent way too much money on it
[18:57:37] <zeeshan> spending money in cnc = more gratifying
[18:58:11] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/A35EA8A0-4559-4D08-9945-7D9957D23F40-3855-000004121F27C8F0_zpsb8fd11f5.jpg
[18:58:12] <zeeshan> :)
[18:58:34] <andypugh> But when I look back a few years, a 200hp 2litre 300lb-ft diesel engine in a shopping hatchback seems bizarre.
[18:58:53] <zeeshan> haha
[18:59:36] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, i found a Rittal for about twenty five bux on ebay
[18:59:42] <andypugh> I remember when 1000 hp/litre was a racing motorcycle, not for popping down to the supermarket.
[18:59:47] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: what is that?
[18:59:48] <Tom_itx> just a bit smaller than what you're after
[18:59:53] <Tom_itx> enclosure
[18:59:54] <zeeshan> what size wqas it
[19:00:01] <andypugh> Err, 100hp/litre :-)
[19:00:24] <Tom_itx> Rittal AE 1380
[19:00:47] <zeeshan> hehe
[19:00:50] <zeeshan> its kinda small =/
[19:00:59] <Tom_itx> not for a sherline
[19:01:50] <Tom_itx> they are good enclosures though
[19:02:34] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Which specific one? 600x300x210 AE380 is nigh-on exactly the asked-for size.
[19:04:30] <zeeshan> i think ill buy the 24x24x6 locally
[19:04:39] <zeeshan> and just extend the face where the vfd goes
[19:04:54] <zeeshan> or
[19:04:57] <zeeshan> i can just make one out of aluminum
[19:05:00] <zeeshan> hmm.
[19:05:08] <zeeshan> i don't have the ability to bend 14 gauge sheet though
[19:05:09] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RITTAL-AE1380-ENCLOSURE-STEEL-GREY-/121245256375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3ac7cab7
[19:05:13] <Tom_itx> that's the model i got
[19:05:20] <Tom_itx> it was used
[19:06:26] <andypugh> Another possiblity is 15x15 extruded section and mdf panels: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QiYY_5vRG2ySfJQZDCSzjtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:06:55] <zeeshan> GUESS HWAT I FOUND
[19:06:59] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Cooper-B-Line-242412-1-Type-1-Enclosure-Less-Panel-24x24x12-62-Inches-/380833579811?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab734323
[19:07:31] <zeeshan> lol
[19:07:37] <zeeshan> i can prolly fit my computer in it too
[19:09:40] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rittal-AE-Enclosure-23-5-x-14-75-x-8-5-/331037635026?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d136171d2
[19:10:02] <andypugh> I fitted my computer in this one: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WAFKZNDs8P9oZeiXKTKNANMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:10:24] <zeeshan> andypugh: thats fancy
[19:10:27] <andypugh> Rear view: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AXPmMc9GjIwEuk-7UFsH6dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:10:43] <Tom_itx> i'd like to try touchy sometime
[19:10:46] <zeeshan> whats that convert select
[19:11:05] <andypugh> 2kW 24V supply
[19:11:52] <andypugh> (Cost me £20 and the guy then tried to sell me 5 more. I wish I had said "Yes"
[19:13:05] <andypugh> It's like a festival of Mesa cards in there, 5i23, 7i64, 7i49, 7i39 and down in the base of the machine 3x 8i20.
[19:13:24] <andypugh> And a 7i44 I overlooked :-)
[19:17:14] <Tom_itx> you should be a mesa sales rep
[19:17:48] <Tom_itx> i wish i'd have gotten the mounts for mine now
[19:17:49] <andypugh> I need to take another photo of the cabinet really, since that one the other psu has been replaced by a set of step-down converters from eBay, running from the 24V, and I do need to finish the cable lacing.
[19:17:53] <Tom_itx> and the screw pannels
[19:17:58] <Tom_itx> like a buss
[19:18:37] <andypugh> I feel slightly guilty, I didn't buy a single one of those Mesa cards.
[19:19:03] <Tom_itx> you have contributed a couple hours
[19:19:25] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/291558 New toolholders setup with retention knobs and some tools.
[19:19:52] <andypugh> Nice.
[19:20:09] <andypugh> is that a centre-findr or an actual probe?
[19:20:11] <Tom_itx> those look like they'd fit the okuma except the retention knobs are too long
[19:20:58] <PetefromTn> it is a simple electronic edge finder I bought awhile back and WANTED to use but I did not have a holder big enough.
[19:21:05] * Tom_itx high 5's JT-Shop for getting his spindle up to speed
[19:21:07] <PetefromTn> probably would LOL
[19:21:56] <PetefromTn> I need to get it in the spindle and accurize the collet holder to get it to spin as true as possible. Have not even put one in there yet to see how the runout is.
[19:22:36] <Tom_itx> we used valenite holders
[19:22:46] <andypugh> PetefromTn: I modified a cheap boring tool shank for my probe: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1QxsLaqLN6Rxy_ITW-H63dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:24:00] <Tom_itx> what probe is that?
[19:24:00] <PetefromTn> Dude you are like freakin' macGyver of the IRC.... I was watching a video someone posted you made where you can see that dividing head. DAMN I want that dividing head fourth axis on my machine.
[19:24:09] <PetefromTn> Nice probe too.
[19:24:58] <PetefromTn> And on a CNC driven Horiz/vert mill no less LOL.
[19:25:04] <andypugh> It's Renishaw MP5, but was extra-cheap as it was advertised as a "Renshaw" :-)
[19:25:26] <PetefromTn> How hard was it to implement that into lcnc?
[19:25:43] <Tom_itx> not that hard
[19:25:54] <andypugh> Home-made magsafe connector on it too :-) https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8hEPrpkf9lYayE3O0-evI9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:25:56] <Tom_itx> it's got probe routines
[19:26:29] <PetefromTn> I need that on my machine man.. NEED THAT!!
[19:26:33] <andypugh> Probing is a case of wiring up one physical input and a single HAL pin. :-)
[19:26:42] <Tom_itx> pretty much
[19:26:47] <PetefromTn> So really hard huh. LOL
[19:26:58] <Tom_itx> then figuring out where you want to move the probe
[19:27:14] <Tom_itx> cradek i think wrote some routines
[19:27:29] <PetefromTn> Man I need that Cradek Guy living next door..
[19:27:41] <andypugh> Yes, I use the hole centre finder one all the time.
[19:28:05] <Tom_itx> andypugh do you recall the link to them?
[19:28:28] <PetefromTn> I am so pleased I finally have some damn toolholders here so I don't have to play the musical toolholder dance anymore.
[19:28:47] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Hole-centre probing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICyyhGNQTHY
[19:29:08] <andypugh> (sounds like a stepper machine, no idea who it is)
[19:29:40] <zeeshan> why is that thing probing so m,any timers!
[19:29:41] <PetefromTn> OOh that is nice... I like how it tries and compares.
[19:29:43] <zeeshan> averaging? :D
[19:29:58] <zeeshan> what feed rate does that hit at
[19:30:14] <andypugh> Tom_itx: linuxcnc/nc_files/examples/probe-hole.ngc :-)
[19:30:26] <Tom_itx> http://timeguy.com/cradek/01262579508
[19:30:33] <Tom_itx> those
[19:31:00] <andypugh> You already have probe-hole in your example files :-)
[19:31:36] <PetefromTn> I gotta get some sorta probe setup built or bought here that can be so damn useful.
[19:32:01] <andypugh> zeeshan: It finds the approximate centre, then the true centre, then probes the edges at a much lower speed for more accuracy.
[19:32:02] <Tom_itx> get an IR one
[19:32:02] <PetefromTn> How hard was it to automate that dividing head man? I REALLY like that.
[19:32:07] <Tom_itx> then you don't need the cable
[19:32:15] <zeeshan> fancy =D
[19:32:25] <PetefromTn> yeah that would be nice.. but probably expensive too.
[19:32:25] <Tom_itx> $$$
[19:32:41] <andypugh> Cable is no real problem, and mine has the break-away magnetic connector if I ever mess up.
[19:32:57] <Tom_itx> then you can load it from the tool changer like any other tool
[19:33:17] <andypugh> There is that. But then I don't have a tool changer.
[19:33:18] <PetefromTn> The Haas machines we used in the shop I worked in briefly were equipped with the remote renishaw tool probes and the table tool length sensors.. real nice to work with.
[19:33:35] <Tom_itx> me either but that's what we used on the big machines
[19:34:20] <PetefromTn> I am so pleased that all of these fancy add ons are totally doable with linuxCNC. Makes me feel like I made the right decision to go this direction.
[19:34:47] <RyanS> Are these 'passive probes' you are talking about?
[19:35:12] <andypugh> PetefromTn: This is a write-up of my dividing head conversion: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/172314-servo_computer-numeric-control_conversion_vertex_bs0_dividing_head.html
[19:37:12] <andypugh> But... There is still backlash in the worm and wheel, converting a dividing head is non-ideal
[19:37:31] <PetefromTn> aww man that sucks.. It looks like such a great solution.
[19:37:36] <andypugh> RyanS: Renishaw 6-ball probes. A very clever design.
[19:37:47] <RyanS> Also seems to be 'digitising probes' but I don't know if they use those terms interchangeably
[19:38:46] <PetefromTn> I see you did a lot of work to it to get it working. Do you think coming at things from the same direction is a workable solution or just a PIA?
[19:39:32] <andypugh> There is a chaep version of the Renishaw design, http://wildhorse-innovations.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=80 but the real thing is probably better.
[19:40:30] <PetefromTn> yeah I have seen those but wonder about their accuracy and longevity.
[19:43:36] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Who are you asking the question of, and about what?
[19:43:36] <PetefromTn> you..
[19:43:36] <PetefromTn> about the dividing head.
[19:43:36] <andypugh> I dismantled my Renishaw to fit the new connector (it was originally inductive link) and the quality was lovely inside. All very well thought-out and executed.
[19:43:36] <andypugh> The ideal for a dividing head is probably a harmonic drive.
[19:43:36] <PetefromTn> agreed.
[19:43:36] <RyanS> What tolerance would you expect from a half decent probe?
[19:43:36] <Tom_itx> good
[19:43:36] <Tom_itx> i'm sure they have specs
[19:43:36] <Tom_itx> on their site
[19:43:36] <andypugh> There are several on eBay in the US for reasonable prices (and none in the UK)
[19:45:16] <RyanS> Bad way of putting my question. http://www.tormach.com/product_tts_passive_probe.html 0.013mm sounds okay to me, but I wouldn't know
[19:47:17] <toastyde1th> even a cheap probe should easily beat the average machine's accuracy
[19:47:34] <andypugh> I have actually been working on a design for a rotary axis based on a harmonic drive, Roger (the model ferrari man) bought one and I designed a housing etc for it, he is planning to make the patterns for the casting: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/g_jM5YhCss6xOCuEbELtYtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0
[19:47:46] <Tom_itx> i marked this site as a good source for probe tips: https://www.carbideprobes.com/
[19:49:13] <andypugh> That specific design combines the harmonic drive, some seriously big bearings, a standard late spindle mount and an ER32 collet holder.
[19:49:41] <andypugh> (and a specific high-count encoder he happened to have)
[19:50:56] <RyanS> or 0.00025mm (can't see how that's realistic) for 6x the price... In fact do CMMs even achieve that accuracy
[19:51:07] <toastyde1th> yep
[19:51:27] <andypugh> I have also been working on my own design for something a bit like a harmonic drive, but easier to make: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrvwlPxRhKU
[19:51:58] <toastyde1th> RyanS, the probes on a cmm are essentially perturbative; they don't measure displacement, they just sense a change
[19:52:50] <toastyde1th> air bearings are quite accurate, and on a cmm you can use very, very, very fine resolution (10-50 nm) scales
[19:52:59] <toastyde1th> they aren't accurate scales, but they're very fine resolution
[19:53:21] <toastyde1th> then you take an interferometer, mount it to the cmm head, and move the cmm around and see how it compares to the interferometer's measurement
[19:53:48] <toastyde1th> once you have the volume correction, you're pretty much good to go.
[19:54:05] <toastyde1th> everything on a cmm is built for repeatability, not accuracy, and they just map the errors.
[19:54:27] <Tom_itx> we probed some pretty accurate holes that really looked like crap on the cmm printout
[19:54:35] <andypugh> I have a friend who until a few weeks ago worked for a CMM maker, I can ask her how good they get
[19:55:05] <toastyde1th> repeatability isn't hard to get, we had a lathe that would do 300 nm at a constant temperature
[19:55:34] <PetefromTn> Interesting. CamBam actually has a Hypocycloidal plugin that apparently allows you to make them.
[19:56:49] <andypugh> This is where I am stuck on making that second design. I need a better rotary than I have to make the holes for the rods. Or I could try to do it in XYZ space.
[19:57:02] <toastyde1th> andypugh, imho always do it in xyz
[19:57:27] <andypugh> But (and this is a big "but") my XYZ was engineered by me....
[19:57:51] <PetefromTn> LOL he said big butt..
[19:57:57] <toastyde1th> the only other option i'm aware of is to make your own index table, and while not particularly hard, takes awhile
[19:58:07] <toastyde1th> and a little bit of fixturing
[19:59:35] <PetefromTn> I know a couple folks who have taken this electronic edge finder and turned it into an XY probe... Apparently it works quite well. You can of course probe Z but there is no overtravel safety so you will probably crunch it.
[20:01:07] <andypugh> Of course, what I need is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOCIETE-GENEVOISE-SIP-Type-P1-5-Rotary-Table-450mm-Diameter-/271386723100?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
[20:01:38] <toastyde1th> andypugh, cut 360 grooves in two disks
[20:01:52] <toastyde1th> put them face to face, so the grooves interlock
[20:01:54] <PetefromTn> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RENISHAW-LT02A-OMP-TOOL-SETTING-KIT-A-2030-0121-02-NIB-/291073902568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c55b47e8
[20:01:59] <RyanS> so probes are essentially a more convenient edge finder, which communicate with the controller ?
[20:02:00] <PetefromTn> any idea how this works?
[20:02:06] <toastyde1th> and build a little jig that lifts, moves 1 degree, and drop it down
[20:02:10] <toastyde1th> put lapping fluid on the grooves
[20:02:16] <toastyde1th> let it run for a day or something.
[20:02:26] <toastyde1th> clean it off, put finer compound on the grooves
[20:02:32] <toastyde1th> repeat, etc
[20:03:13] <toastyde1th> the grooves will all drift closer and closer to 1 degree as you go on in time, and decrease grit size
[20:03:14] <andypugh> PetefromTn: I have no idea what that is, but it might be an absolute bargain :-)
[20:03:22] <PetefromTn> agreed...
[20:03:28] <PetefromTn> Is that an optical tool setter?
[20:04:01] <toastyde1th> looks like a machine mounted tool setter
[20:04:17] <toastyde1th> optical tool setters don't go in a machine
[20:04:21] <PetefromTn> I don't see any cable hookups or any way to attach anything to it maybe it is a remote one>
[20:04:30] <toastyde1th> most probes are remote or induction
[20:04:31] <cradek> I think 0MP is infrared
[20:04:33] <PetefromTn> sure they do..
[20:04:44] <cradek> it probably talks to the same receiver module as the probe
[20:04:50] <cradek> which you won't have...
[20:04:55] <PetefromTn> that is what i am wondering...
[20:05:28] <andypugh> Yes, it looks like _just_ the infra-red part, with no probe.
[20:05:38] <cradek> http://www.renishaw.com/en/omm-mi-12--6155
[20:05:47] <cradek> this is what the receiver looks like
[20:06:07] <andypugh> I think it is actually still a bargain, if that is something you need.
[20:06:19] <cradek> http://www.renishaw.com/en/lto2-optical-unit--10415
[20:06:27] <cradek> yeah here's where it says they work together
[20:06:56] <toastyde1th> well god damn, there are optical toolsetters that go in machines
[20:07:26] <cradek> yeah I agree that's amazingly cheap
[20:07:43] <cradek> if you're lucky you might find the receiver on a junked machine or something
[20:07:54] <PetefromTn> that would be lucky stiff..
[20:09:32] <PetefromTn> honestly my machine has the column that goes over the top of the enclosure that holds the pendant and runs the wiring to the rear and underneath it there are several milspec environmental barrel plugs that are for fourth axis and probe hookup. There is even a bracket in the corner of the machine that appears to be for one of those RF units.
[20:09:44] <andypugh> cradek: Isn't that funny ring the reciever?
[20:09:49] <cradek> heh OMM is $400-800 and MI12 is $800 (ebay prices)
[20:10:00] <cradek> andypugh: sorry?
[20:10:16] <PetefromTn> That is actually cheap if it gets you a working system.
[20:10:28] <andypugh> In the first auction, the ring with 4 things pointing inwards?
[20:10:37] <cradek> it's how you center it
[20:10:44] <cradek> this is a thing you stick on/in the lathe spindle
[20:10:46] <PetefromTn> exactly..
[20:10:53] <RyanS> what I don't get with CNC lathes , like the one in your video andy. You have to dial the part in the chuck? I guess the industrial CNC lathes simply have chucks with really good runout?
[20:11:05] <cradek> it's not a probe, it's a X/Z poke target
[20:11:17] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[20:11:57] <RyanS> A lack of runout , I should say
[20:12:17] <andypugh> RyanS: No, typically you machine all critical diameters in one setup.
[20:12:38] <PetefromTn> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Renishaw-MP1s-Machine-Touch-Probe-CAT40-Extended-Tip-with-Ruby-Ball-/231135518434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d0c01ee2
[20:12:43] <cradek> I could sure use that to measure mill tool lengths (I have the receiver already)
[20:12:44] <PetefromTn> That looks sweet..
[20:13:19] <andypugh> cradek: He has two, so you wouldn't even be inconveniencing anyone :-)
[20:13:24] <RyanS> yeah, I guess the lathe makes bar stock concentric after a few passes
[20:13:55] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Cheaper: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Renishaw-MP1s-CAT40-CNC-Machine-Probe/321313432544?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D4680191747932281007%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D231135518434%26
[20:13:59] <PetefromTn> yeah but the better lathes with collet capacity are pretty damn good...
[20:14:25] <PetefromTn> yeah but that is the current bid man..LOL
[20:14:31] <PetefromTn> this one was buy it now.
[20:14:55] <andypugh> 1 day 15h to go and no bids.
[20:15:10] <andypugh> Snipe it
[20:15:37] <toastyde1th> RyanS, what video
[20:15:51] <PetefromTn> If I had not just blown the last two pennies I have on all this sweet tooling I would definitely try LOL. Need to make some damn parts on this monster so I can afford one.
[20:16:40] <RyanS> toastyde1th andys dividing head Conversion
[20:17:13] <cradek> oh look, someone just made an offer on it
[20:17:34] <PetefromTn> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RENISHAW-TP6A-CMM-TOUCH-TRIGGER-PROBE-TESTED-with-WARRANTY-SHIPS-WORLDWIDE-/171223966075?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ddbe617b
[20:17:44] <PetefromTn> Is this a table mount probe?
[20:18:31] <cradek> it's a replacement part
[20:18:34] <PetefromTn> nevermind it is a touch probe.
[20:18:42] <RyanS> andypugh Don't you have to fiddle around with the tool post a lot with a converted lathe. or provided you zero the tool relative to the part it's no big deal?
[20:18:43] <cradek> one of the parts you can smash, ha
[20:20:19] <andypugh> RyanS: My "A bit like a Dickson made by a blind man" toolpost isn't as repeatable as I would like. I understand that better ones are better.
[20:21:41] <andypugh> That TP6A is a complete brobe head, with a special mounting for a CMM. Given the number of electrical contacts I guess it is a strain-gauge one from a CMM.
[20:21:56] <RyanS> ah ok, gang tooling perhaps ?
[20:22:04] <andypugh> PetefromTn: A "touch probe" is what you need.
[20:23:13] <andypugh> RyanS: I think you would be fine with a good toolpost. Mine was cheap.
[20:23:31] <PetefromTn> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HXYCFrM6L._SL500_SS120_.jpg
[20:23:49] <PetefromTn> I was thinking of trying to get one of those and turn it into a table mounted touch probe.
[20:23:51] <andypugh> Multifix quote a repeatabilty that is very good, but they are uncheap.
[20:23:54] <PetefromTn> tool probe.
[20:24:41] <andypugh> What i am doing is probing the work and measuring the tools offline.
[20:25:16] <RyanS> I think I'll just get a CNC mill some day and fashion up some sort of lathe attachment
[20:26:21] <andypugh> I deliberately included a tool-length and tightening station in the end-support casting of my CNC conversion: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7v3gpOZHcTunB0JRbsAT3dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:27:39] <RyanS> This looks interesting http://d2n4wb9orp1vta.cloudfront.net/resources/images/cdn/cms/PM0711_TB_PrecisionLatheOperations_a.jpg
[20:28:25] <PetefromTn> Actually I can do the same thing I have a nice height gauge and a large granite surface plate just need to fab up some sorta fixture to hold the tools precisely.
[20:29:15] <PetefromTn> How did you ensure the tool is perfectly vertical?
[20:29:23] <RyanS> andypugh nice looks convenient
[20:29:40] <andypugh> Yeah, I am actually prett smug about it :-)
[20:30:09] <andypugh> PetefromTn: it's a BT30 socket, bored to a taper.
[20:30:11] <RyanS> The table is flat enough?
[20:30:39] <andypugh> I hope so, it's the same table that the work is bolted to..
[20:30:49] <RyanS> true
[20:30:56] <PetefromTn> aah so you just bored the hole and inserted a premade socket then?
[20:31:14] <andypugh> No, I bored a tapered hole on the mill :-)
[20:31:30] <PetefromTn> you can reach that far over there?
[20:31:44] <RyanS> Is a tool setting probe overkill?
[20:31:56] <PetefromTn> I don't think so..
[20:32:02] <andypugh> I didn't bore it there, but I set it up carefully.
[20:32:09] <PetefromTn> aah.
[20:32:54] <RyanS> jeez , what sort of parts you make outside of machine building?
[20:33:26] <RyanS> All seems like pretty large tooling you have
[20:33:46] <andypugh> This is the taper-boring setup. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Rwq66WXQfv3Ec7chknvoFNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite
[20:34:51] <andypugh> The boring head infeeds by 0.1mm per rev. LinuxCNC knows how to feed the Z by a fixed distance per rev. This means that boring tapered holes is really easy :-)
[20:35:31] <RyanS> "I'll just put the 'small' mill on the big mill & machine it" :P
[20:36:29] <jdh> the boring head adjusts itself?
[20:36:31] <andypugh> RyanS: Who are you talking about?
[20:37:02] <andypugh> jdh: Yes, lovely things boring and facing heads. Horribly expensive new, too.
[20:37:13] <jdh> that's pretty nifty
[20:37:48] <andypugh> jdh: Check ebay for "Wohlhaupter"
[20:38:36] <jdh> pretty cheap, sort of.
[20:38:50] <RyanS> andypugh: sorry. you, I have a bad IRC habit of not directing my comments
[20:38:55] <andypugh> List price on the UPA3 is $5000 I think.
[20:40:10] <andypugh> RyanS: I don't actually make anything, this is pure hobby, and all my tools share a single garage with my 2 motorbikes. it's actually all pretty small stuff.
[20:40:49] <andypugh> In terms of floor area, though, a floor standing mill isn't a lot bigger than a bench mounted one.
[20:41:20] <RyanS> andypugh ah ok, so mainly machine building for the sake of it
[20:41:22] <PetefromTn> that is true..
[20:41:49] <PetefromTn> Well this sucks...
[20:42:13] <RyanS> bbl
[20:42:34] <andypugh> RyanS: Yes. This is my little workshop, two lathes, two bikes, a mill and a bench. And 23mm of water because it has been raining non-stop for months :-( https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/20140117#5972785881716623746
[20:43:16] <PetefromTn> I finally had the time to take my 4500 PSI air cylinder down to the dive shop to get it filled. It was out of hydro so I had to pay them $76.00 to hydro it and fill it back up. Took them three days to get it done and I finally got it back home today. Went to fill my homebuilt PCP pistol and it has a leak!! I can't win.
[20:43:55] <jdh> Pete: I pay $18 for hydros
[20:44:09] <PetefromTn> for a 4500 PSI firefighter cylinder?
[20:44:10] <zeeshan> page not found
[20:44:15] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:44:19] <Tom_itx> same here
[20:44:24] <jdh> no, normal tanks.
[20:44:26] <PetefromTn> that included the fill..
[20:44:39] <jdh> that is a wrapped cylinder?
[20:44:42] <PetefromTn> I still think I got screwd tho..
[20:44:55] <PetefromTn> yeah epoxyglass over aluminum core.
[20:44:56] <jdh> I have a 4500psi compressor though, so...
[20:45:09] <PetefromTn> aah ya bastard. LOL
[20:45:24] <jdh> those are only good for one hydro?
[20:45:27] <PetefromTn> let me have it I will take good care of it.
[20:45:42] <PetefromTn> no they are good now for 15 years.
[20:45:42] <jdh> you go to rhea's in murville?
[20:45:57] <PetefromTn> But I only have like two years left on this one before it is scrap.
[20:46:10] <PetefromTn> yup. Got screwd.
[20:46:23] <PetefromTn> They are nice folks tho.
[20:46:56] <PetefromTn> where are you again?
[20:46:58] <jdh> I know David Rhea, but he sold the shop 15 years ago.
[20:47:07] <jdh> Wilmington, NC
[20:47:15] <PetefromTn> OK.
[20:47:43] <PetefromTn> I should be out there playing with my new toolholders but I am just too lazy and tired right now.
[20:48:04] <andypugh> Can we play pressure "Top Trumps" ? We run the diesel injectors at 300 bar, so about the same as your gas bottle, and that scares us a bit. But I used to work in a lab with a very special materials testing machine that went to 14.7 kbar. I have never seen kbar used before or since.
[20:48:38] <Tom_itx> easy to fubar with kbar
[20:48:49] <jdh> I'm good with 300bar
[20:49:12] <PetefromTn> thats just insane.
[20:49:22] <jdh> my booster will go to ~350bar
[20:49:22] <PetefromTn> This tank scares the crap out of me as it is.
[20:49:40] <andypugh> It was fed by a rack of hydraulic intensifiers (big cylinder to little cylinder) and the final feed pipe was 1.25" OD and 0.125" ID.
[20:49:45] <PetefromTn> Well hydraulics often go higher than that really.
[20:50:16] <jdh> my booster is a pnumatic intensifier. of sorts.
[20:50:21] <PetefromTn> 350 bar that is..
[20:51:23] <jdh> yeah. I only go up to 300bar on my storage bottles
[20:52:00] <andypugh> PetefromTn: I don't think hydraulics often go that high, really. 200,000 psi?
[20:52:07] <Connor> I have 2 steel tanks.. Probably need to be visual and hyroed. Pete, who did your Hydro ?
[20:52:55] <PetefromTn> I had to laugh. A friend of mine works on PCP air guns and was working on a rifle another guy tinkered with. He said he did something and it let go right in front of him exploding the parts into the walls and thru into the house. The funny part is he said that" the air pressure felt like Mike Tyson punched me in the face.....All over my face LOL
[20:53:09] <PetefromTn> andypugh: No man I said the 350 bar.
[20:53:29] <PetefromTn> Rhea's Dive service but I think they sent it out to be tested.
[20:54:05] <jdh> I bypass the dive shops and go to the fire extinguisher place (same thing they do)
[20:54:06] <Connor> I thought they could Hydro ..
[20:54:20] <PetefromTn> like I said they can but they farm it out.
[20:54:56] <jdh> http://www.rheasdiving.com/5yeartest.html
[20:55:06] <jdh> geez... $50 + vis
[20:55:11] <PetefromTn> The sticker says "Waters tool and hydro" so that is who did it I guess.
[20:55:32] <jdh> I have about 40 tanks, $50/each would suck.
[20:55:59] <andypugh> The machine was designed to apply any arbitrary stress state to a tubular steel test piece, so it could apply enough differential pressure between the outside and inside of the tube to yield it radially. Other mechanisms then applied mechanical tension and torsion to fill out the rest of the stress state.
[20:56:02] <PetefromTn> yeah they are rippin me off I think. The guy did say tho that when they got the tank back and put the valve back on it had a leak they repaired for free.
[20:56:33] <jdh> a leak. in a 4500 bottle. they fixed it?
[20:56:51] <PetefromTn> no in the valve.
[20:57:13] <andypugh> (I am not talking about "bursting" the tube here, I am talking about having a pressure difference between outside and inside enough to squash the wall thickness thinner)
[20:57:28] <PetefromTn> It has the firefighter style valve with the threaded nozzle and I guess it had a very slow leak.
[20:57:42] <jdh> Waters in in Walland
[20:58:08] <PetefromTn> andy... I am surprised they used air for that. The destructive power would be immense. Was it not hydraulic?
[20:58:18] <PetefromTn> dunno..
[20:58:32] <andypugh> It was hydraulic, yes, sorry if I was unclear.
[20:58:41] <PetefromTn> jdh: are you a dive master or something?
[20:58:44] <andypugh> Air would have liquified :-)
[20:58:57] <jdh> Pete: nope.
[20:59:14] <PetefromTn> then what the hell do you need 40 tanks for?
[20:59:43] <jdh> I like to dive?
[20:59:49] <Connor> andypugh: What IS that in the spindle ? https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5678684612017184674?banner=pwa&pid=5678684612017184674&oid=108164504656404380542
[20:59:54] <PetefromTn> jeez I guess so..
[21:00:13] <andypugh> Connor: Q-max cutter :-)
[21:00:24] <Connor> Never heard of it..
[21:00:29] <andypugh> Tool abuse
[21:00:37] <Connor> Kinda like a chassis punch ?
[21:00:47] <PetefromTn> I am Padi Advanced open water and started my cave dive certs before I left florida. Have not dove in a good while not.
[21:00:49] <andypugh> Exactly like a chassis punch
[21:00:50] <PetefromTn> now.
[21:01:15] <Connor> I've not been diving since before 2000...
[21:01:24] <jdh> david rhea was one of my cave instructors, hence knowing Rhea's
[21:01:27] <andypugh> Connor: I had a lot of holes to make
[21:01:42] <Connor> I'm Naui Certified..
[21:01:44] <PetefromTn> Rheas has a lot of flyaway trips that are pretty sweet.
[21:02:02] <andypugh> I always avoided diving when I was a keen caver,
[21:02:10] <PetefromTn> When I was younger I dove all over the place..
[21:02:17] <Connor> I was certified @ Current, which is gone now..
[21:02:26] <jdh> .uk cavers are whack
[21:02:44] <jdh> when I was younger, I couldn't afford to dive
[21:02:51] <PetefromTn> So I guess you musta dove the quarries here like they do..
[21:02:59] <andypugh> I did the Padi course in Cancun. I wasn't impressed
[21:03:21] <PetefromTn> LOL I hear that a lot... those tourist area dive schools are mediocre at best.
[21:03:36] <jdh> I've done 10 or 12 quarry dives here. They mostly suck
[21:03:37] <andypugh> I finished the course qualified to do things I knew I wasn't competent to do.
[21:03:50] <PetefromTn> I had a great dive instructor and for our finals we went to the keys for a week, lots of fun.
[21:04:01] <PetefromTn> yeah look at that rock...
[21:04:02] <jdh> Pay And Dive Instantly
[21:04:20] <PetefromTn> LOL
[21:04:25] <andypugh> If I was keen on diving I would do it again with BSAC (or possibly CDG)
[21:04:55] <PetefromTn> The guy allen who owns RHea's lost his wife to a diving accident.
[21:05:06] <jdh> yeah, I was down there when she died
[21:05:25] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/q58gtf9
[21:05:26] <PetefromTn> apparently it was some kinda freak neurological thing?
[21:05:40] <jdh> not so freak. oxygen toxicity
[21:05:55] <PetefromTn> no shit. so it was an accident then.
[21:05:58] <jdh> 6 of my 40ish bottles fit that.
[21:06:17] <jdh> that pic is actually at the site she died.
[21:06:18] <PetefromTn> you can go pretty damn deep then huh.
[21:06:29] <andypugh> Cave diving in the UK is a means to an end. I don't know any UK cave divers who like the diving part, they like the unexplored cave part.
[21:06:42] <jdh> we have some of those also
[21:07:15] <andypugh> I am fascinated by the logistics of staging bottles into long cave dives
[21:07:17] <PetefromTn> I gotta think if I lost my wife diving I would probably not want to dive anymore..
[21:07:17] <jdh> lots of sumps in Tennessee, Georgia
[21:07:49] <jdh> so, diving is just to get to more dry passage
[21:08:15] <PetefromTn> been caving once with a friend... No thanks LOL.
[21:08:20] <andypugh> jdh: Or wet passage, but it is the passage, not the water, if you see what I mean.
[21:08:34] <jdh> well, dry is relative in this.
[21:09:03] <PetefromTn> Dove into a cave down in Guantanamo Bay Cuba once and almost did not get out. was the last time I went into a cave underwater.
[21:09:35] <andypugh> I have been on a caving trip where someone died. Not a close friend, and certainly not a wife, but it was surprisingly unaffecting.
[21:09:53] <PetefromTn> REALLY...
[21:10:18] <PetefromTn> I know like motorcycling which I also love I lost a couple friends we rode with and every time I nearly quit riding.
[21:10:51] <jdh> easier in diving. You just find some key 'fact' and say "but I would never do that so I'm OK"
[21:11:10] <PetefromTn> it can't help but make you think.... but as they say it is not a tragedy to die doing what you love.
[21:11:11] <Tom_itx> risk takers will take risks
[21:11:23] <andypugh> I have lost a few mates in biking accidents (one is still alive, but he's not my mate any more, someone else in what is left of the same body). But, you know the risks in all these things. That's part of what makes them interesting.
[21:11:23] <jdh> she was diving the wrong gas... her incident is: http://www.iucrr.org/mar09-2002.php
[21:13:06] <jdh> last summer, another guy died in the same cave, from breathing the wrong gas
[21:13:14] <PetefromTn> Man that sucks...
[21:13:31] <PetefromTn> And it is not like they were inexperienced whatsoever.
[21:13:34] <jdh> yeah... but I'll never do that, so I'm ok.
[21:15:12] <PetefromTn> I'm sure they said the same thing.
[21:15:25] <andypugh> Just a question.. The report mentions 'buddies" whilst UK cave diving completely rejects the concept and goes for full redundancy (typically in a cave nobody can help you). Is this just a habit of terminology in the report?
[21:15:55] <jdh> he certainly did... he was questioned several times about his gas and kept insisting it was correct.
[21:16:16] <PetefromTn> On a lighter note, anyone making anything cool with LinuxCNC today???
[21:16:28] <jdh> buddies are always taught, and often followed.
[21:17:27] <jdh> these caves often have 200ft visibility and have miles of passage. UK caving isn't conducive to buddies
[21:17:48] <PetefromTn> I need to add the G53 G0 Z0 to my post at the end of a program here. Gotta get that done before i run the machine with it again.
[21:18:38] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Well, I jog-routed the control panel for the lathe cabinet
[21:18:52] <PetefromTn> LOL jog routed...Cool.
[21:19:47] <PetefromTn> I was looking at my pendant the other day while I was running the machine and thinking about adding some gizmos....hehehe
[21:20:19] <andypugh> It looks a little bit less like a sideboard now
[21:20:38] <PetefromTn> I think I may get that 1/4 inch 6061 plate I have leftover and machine an add on plate to accept some switches etc. Would be nice to have an actual cycle start and feed hold button .
[21:23:35] <Connor> So, how did she dive on the wrong gas ?
[21:24:41] <andypugh> Connor: How do you tell what gas you have in the bottle?
[21:24:52] <jdh> too much oxygen (36%) for the depth
[21:25:21] <Connor> I know nothing about Nitrox and mixed gas diving..
[21:25:30] <andypugh> Sideboard: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FJ3rEEoGjIQUciYw0YfNg9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[21:25:43] <zeeshan> red carpets?
[21:25:43] <zeeshan> :D
[21:25:50] <andypugh> Add motor mounts: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-HrN3qOCAbfH3Tpshu7udNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[21:25:50] <zeeshan> austin powers!
[21:26:03] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/p6apr96
[21:26:05] <andypugh> Add motor: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/L5eys6hb_hHbRBcpmf5w3NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[21:26:22] <andypugh> Add controls: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6wBTQARUVEmE7CQglc95tNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[21:26:22] <jdh> my raspberry pi powered oxygen analyzer and pressure display
[21:26:33] <zeeshan> are you using a car o2 wideband sensor?
[21:26:45] <andypugh> Not a sideboard any more :-)
[21:27:09] <jdh> zeeshan: no, sensors made for this usage.
[21:27:18] <zeeshan> ah
[21:27:28] <jdh> wet cells
[21:27:57] <jdh> not really wet, but not like car sensors
[21:27:59] <PetefromTn> watching Avatar... cool movie.
[21:28:58] <PetefromTn> "If there is a Hell you may want to go there after a tour on Pandora for some R and R" LOL...
[21:29:10] <andypugh> zeeshan: The carpet was in the house when I bought it. It is now full of swarf, wood chips and grease spots and is scheduled for removal and replacement by wood when it gets to the top of the queue
[21:29:18] <zeeshan> andypugh: hehe
[21:29:36] <zeeshan> is that basement?
[21:29:37] <zeeshan> *the
[21:29:58] <andypugh> No, it's my living room.
[21:30:05] <zeeshan> you machine in your living room?
[21:30:06] <jdh> excellent use of space
[21:30:16] <PetefromTn> LOL love it.
[21:30:20] <zeeshan> bhahahahahaha
[21:30:22] <zeeshan> :D
[21:30:37] <andypugh> I have more room for the Rivett in the living room than in the workshop.
[21:30:52] <zeeshan> yea my garage is packed
[21:30:52] <zeeshan> :{
[21:30:59] <jdh> if I could just get my wife to for that...
[21:31:15] <andypugh> I only have it as a decorative object anyway.
[21:31:44] <PetefromTn> I used to rent a house in the mountains here and I bought a bunch of plastic sheet and lined the carpet floors in a spare room and then layed down 3/4 inch plywood and brought my mill and lathe in there. Machined in there for several years and left the room looked brand new.
[21:32:25] <andypugh> Have you ever seen a good-condition Rivett lathe? The factory polished them. They are not a thing to leave in a garage that floods.
[21:33:07] <jdh> you have to have priorities
[21:33:23] <andypugh> example: http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/img7.jpg
[21:33:56] <jdh> what is the lever on the left?
[21:34:12] <PetefromTn> MMMMmmmm Balanced ball handles...
[21:34:55] <PetefromTn> Is that to engage the leadscrew
[21:34:58] <andypugh> The diagonal lever engages the the longitudinal power feed.
[21:35:21] <andypugh> Full page
[21:35:24] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/page2.html
[21:35:44] <andypugh> In 1936 that lathe, on a stand, cost $2000
[21:36:03] <andypugh> In 1936 a Myford ML4 lathe cost £10.
[21:37:19] <PetefromTn> I like the myford....
[21:38:06] <jdh> I'd like an 8mm ballscrew with a small ballnut
[21:38:06] <andypugh> Yeah, I bought the Rivett for £120, I would never get a Myford for that nowadays ;-)
[21:38:51] <PetefromTn> The metal supplier I went to today installed several machining centers in their huge empty building and they were making some cool stuff on a nice sized CNC lathe that would fit perfect in my shop. I think it was an okuma older model.
[21:39:19] <andypugh> jdh: Like this you mean? http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/rsw-ballnuts/80-r10-03r3-rsw.html
[21:39:38] <PetefromTn> It was pretty compact and was turning out some nice looking stainless parts.
[21:39:46] <jdh> looks pretty small
[21:39:55] <zeeshan> man
[21:40:01] <zeeshan> i just realized i don't even need an enclosure
[21:40:04] <PetefromTn> Something like that with a blown control and a linuxCNC retrofit may be in my future.
[21:40:10] <zeeshan> i can use one of my lathe cabinets as an enclosure
[21:40:41] <PetefromTn> just make a plexi flip up cover for your lathe..
[21:40:41] <jdh> if I ever sell my dive gear, I can buy CNC toys.
[21:40:49] <andypugh> jdh: 17.5mm OD and 15mm thread
[21:40:54] <PetefromTn> There ya go man get it done..
[21:41:29] <jdh> that would fit in my existing spot.
[21:41:36] <jdh> now, I need a cheap chinese version
[21:41:43] <zeeshan> jdh
[21:41:44] <zeeshan> wtf
[21:41:47] <zeeshan> i want one of those!
[21:41:57] <zeeshan> you don't think we can use it on the chinese ball screw?
[21:42:07] <jdh> it's an 8mm
[21:42:10] <andypugh> PetefromTn: $2 + shipping? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lathe-XYZ-PROTURN-PRO410-CNC-/181319252804?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
[21:42:29] <zeeshan> they have 15mm..
[21:42:30] <zeeshan> er
[21:42:31] <zeeshan> 16mm and 12 mm
[21:42:33] <zeeshan> yours is a 12?
[21:42:48] <jdh> yeah. 12 won't fit under my cross slide
[21:42:55] <PetefromTn> Meh If I get one it will be a slant bed and not a Protocrap..
[21:43:03] <skunkworks> heh - shipping would be the killer...
[21:43:14] <PetefromTn> that too..
[21:43:42] <andypugh> jdh: Did you see how I squeezed one in to my lathe?
[21:43:45] <PetefromTn> Honestly I saw a Cincinatti slant bed lathe retrofit somewhere that looked interesting. Get my Cincinatti arrow's baby brother in here hehe.
[21:43:52] <zeeshan> andypugh: you need to add more pics
[21:44:04] <jdh> andypugh: your's was 8mm?
[21:44:09] <andypugh> Yeah
[21:44:20] <jdh> guess it would still fit.
[21:44:32] <jdh> I have no way to machine ends though.
[21:44:36] <PetefromTn> Rotating ball nut LOL..
[21:44:40] <andypugh> But the lathe is a 9x40 (I suspect stretched 7x20)
[21:45:05] <jdh> and I don't want to spend more on a nut/screw than I did on the lathe
[21:45:56] <PetefromTn> They need to build some choppers like in Avatar. Those things are sweet.
[21:47:07] <RyanS> That's not bad for 1 pound the proturn
[21:47:14] <andypugh> jdh: More interesting might be the external-tube RSH nuts in section 7.12 here: http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/attachment.php?id_attachment=127
[21:47:18] <jdh> Pete: I have an idea how to make the rotating ballnut now,but I think bearings that size will make it much more expensive
[21:48:05] <PetefromTn> just bustin yer chops man. but it would work nice I think. Get some cheap angulars and be done with it.
[21:48:27] <jdh> not cheap if they are that big
[21:48:35] <andypugh> jdh: I bought (special order) a preloaded 16mm RSH nit and had a nasty surprise, an external ball tube not shown in the drawing.
[21:49:33] <andypugh> But, if you can put the tube in a corner they are the slimmest nuts for the screw size I have foiund.
[21:51:06] <jdh> no rsh/rsu/etc that small
[21:51:31] <andypugh> I managed to squeeze the 16mm into the mill like this: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/109301-harrison_universal_miller_conversion-3.html#post1393132
[21:54:30] <RyanS> andypugh: these videos are making us awfully jealous :P
[21:54:46] <jdh> a linear motion company just relocated here. Wonder if they have any factory 2nds
[22:00:50] <andypugh> A ballscrew with a pitch error is as good as a perfect one with a screw mapping file. Might be worth asking.
[22:02:45] <PetefromTn> Does linuxCNC support screw mapping?
[22:05:25] <andypugh> Of course :-)
[22:06:07] <PetefromTn> Awesomeness..!!
[22:08:25] <andypugh> See "COMP_FILE" here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis__lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[22:12:04] <RyanS> I milled some aluminium using a collet chuck on my drill. Actually worked okay .. Really not much vibration
[22:13:28] <RyanS> I wonder if the could be modified to accept a drawbar..
[22:14:51] <andypugh> hreaded nose collar maybe?
[22:16:16] <RyanS> Not familiar with that..
[22:19:27] <andypugh> I have seen a few variants of the idea on lathes.couk
[22:19:46] <RyanS> google is coming up with hardinge spindles
[22:20:47] <andypugh> What are you trying to mount in what?
[22:22:40] <RyanS> e32 collet chuck in a MT4 drill press... It vibrates loose occasionally I was thinking a drawbar , perhaps
[22:23:04] <RyanS> it milled aluminium ok apart from that
[22:23:37] <RyanS> only 0.5-1mm cuts seem to work
[22:24:27] <RyanS> Although it could be because I was using MT4-3 sleeve with MT3 er32 chuck
[22:25:03] <RyanS> I suppose MT4 er32 , could help somewhat
[22:25:27] <jdh> upgrade bearings?
[22:25:56] <andypugh> There is a scheme with a spring-loaded wedgy thing that lives in the smaller morse slot and expands into the socket.
[22:25:59] <RyanS> There was very little vibration
[22:26:54] <jdh> there are some 8mm screws on aliexpress
[22:26:54] <RyanS> I would never try milling steel tho
[22:27:02] <andypugh> (this is why you see an "extraction" slot in the inner taper, which otherwise makes no sense
[22:28:41] <RyanS> I'm getting a milling machine soon anyway.. I just want to get a little practice 'Mcgyver milling'
[22:29:06] <andypugh> For example here we have a pair of boring heads, and both have a slot in their tapers. This is nothing to do with extraction, these fit into the socket.
[22:29:27] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zAh6K3E0uRG9Uhj9WWvqG9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:30:23] <RyanS> So you don't necessarily need a drawbar right thru spindle ?
[22:30:39] <andypugh> it's for some sort of "keeper" But I don't know what.
[22:31:34] <andypugh> No, there have been several ways to hold tools in the spindle without a through-bar historically.
[22:31:54] <andypugh> Some machines simly preclude the possibility.
[22:32:17] <RyanS> ah it 'squeezes' outward on spindle nose?
[22:32:38] <andypugh> I am not sure
[22:33:09] <andypugh> I have never seen the other parts, just a vague description from my dad.
[22:33:34] <RyanS> I'm pretty sure it's just because I was using an adapter sleeve
[22:33:57] <andypugh> You will often see a screwed ring on the nose of a drill for _exrtracting_ a morse taper
[22:34:51] <andypugh> I dont
[22:35:54] <andypugh> I don't think it is the adaptor. Millling cutters try to pull out and Morse tapers are hopeless against that
[22:37:09] <andypugh> I scrweded nose on the drill and an eccentrically-bored hole in a retaining cap might work (ER colllets use the same principle)
[22:37:28] <RyanS> The only problem I see about modifying the spindle nose is being hardened steel
[22:39:27] <andypugh> Indeed. It is more about seeing what is there. If the collet holder has a slot like my boring heads have, then there might be an interesting option, bit if there isn't., there isn't.
[22:39:56] <andypugh> And it is very much time for me to sleep now.
[22:54:22] <zeeshan> i present to you
[22:54:27] <zeeshan> the stuff it all controller box
[22:54:40] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/controller2_zps64728650.png
[23:50:40] <RyanS> Who on earth uses BA fasteners, apart from model engineers...