#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-02-04

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[04:35:50] <Deejay> moin
[05:29:28] <jthornton> morning
[07:42:01] <PetefromTn> Mornin' Folks..
[07:49:26] <skunkworks> PetefromTn, looks like the yasnak control is operational... http://youtu.be/kwnIIWTb7U8
[07:49:33] <ju-emb> somebody has an recommendation for an industry grade LED touch screen ?
[07:49:40] <PetefromTn> Nice...
[07:50:03] <skunkworks> No conversion for you!
[07:50:07] <skunkworks> (yet_
[07:56:51] <PetefromTn> Damn I wish my Cincinatti's toolchanger was working.....JEALOUS>
[07:58:33] <JT-Shop> fix it!
[07:58:53] <PetefromTn> It's not broken LOL
[07:59:30] <PetefromTn> I need to tho. Gotta get that damn bracket machined to accept the spindle encoder.
[08:04:13] <JT-Shop> ain't hooked up yet?
[08:07:25] <PetefromTn> actually some of it is...
[08:08:18] <PetefromTn> The power drawbar is hooked up, some of the IO neccessary is hooked up like the air pressure sensors and the leads for the positional sensors are run to the area near the 7i77...
[08:24:38] <jdh> only cheap cncn lathe I've seen seems to be skunky
[08:25:02] <jdh> looks cute, but...
[08:34:08] <skunkworks> skunky?
[08:36:24] <JT-Shop> lol\
[08:40:45] <PetefromTn> Nothing worse than skunky....hehe
[08:49:27] <jdh> I assume that is your emco
[08:49:29] <jdh> on ebay
[08:51:25] <jdh> why aren't all smallish lathes slant-bed?
[09:00:58] <PetefromTn> Who ?
[09:05:44] <R2E4> This is my tool changer and what looks to be prox sensors. http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/misc/IMG_0497.JPG http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/misc/IMG_0499.JPG
[09:07:04] <R2E4> THis is going to be painful I think. Anyway from what I know about these are... three wires....not sure, +, - and open collector out. Anyone work with this type of sensor?
[09:07:47] <R2E4> I have the wires at the control panel side, and the drawings just show the limit contact.
[09:09:34] <skunkworks> other than you may need a pull up resisitor on the input (and make sure the voltage works..)
[09:09:48] <PetefromTn> I have similar sensors on my spindle and they are indeed prox sensors. It looks like your machine has a similar cam plate too but I have not used mine yet still working on that part of the retrofit. I will be curious as to how you get on with them.
[09:10:27] <skunkworks> can be as simple as this http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/sensors/Magnetic_Proximity/mp1014.htm
[09:11:33] <R2E4> I think I may have an interface allready and it shows up at the controller magically with a dry contact.... At least that what it shows in the schematics.
[09:13:48] <R2E4> The box next to the Z servo is where they wire into and I am hoping they come out a dry contact, but not sure. http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/misc/IMG_0505.JPG
[09:15:17] <JT-Shop> R2E4, what color are the wires
[09:15:39] <JT-Shop> looks like a normal shielded prox to me
[09:17:02] <R2E4> I havent taken them apart yet, just stripped the covers last night. Want to figure out how to attack it before I start ripping it apart.
[09:17:51] <skunkworks> rip it apart!!!!
[09:17:51] <pcw_home> If they are 3 wire NPN type sensors you can read them with
[09:17:53] <pcw_home> the 7I77 inputs but a stiff pull-up resistor is required (say 2K)
[09:18:49] <pcw_home> (PNP types need no pullup)
[09:20:28] <R2E4> hmmm.... thanks pcw
[09:23:14] <R2E4> Operator stripped and painted and mounted screen. http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/misc/IMG_0491.JPG http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/misc/IMG_0495.JPG
[09:23:56] <PetefromTn> Ooh nice what pendant is that?
[09:24:10] <pcw_home> 2 wire sensors need a stiff pulldown (say 1K) to supply their off mode current
[09:24:35] <pcw_home> Thats is _very_ blue
[09:25:23] <R2E4> I thought it was close to the VM40 blue but no dice. May spray the blue vm40 covers....
[09:26:14] <R2E4> PetefromTn: thats the mpg2 from cnc4pc that never worked on the winblows controller.
[09:43:06] <R2E4> pcw: what the board that goes on the rs422 port of the 7i77 that triggers gnd instead of + ?
[09:43:36] <R2E4> 32in 16out
[09:48:02] <Tom_itx> mmm 9" on the way
[09:48:06] <pcw_home> we have output cards that have sinking outputs but no input cards that have sinking inputs
[09:48:09] * Tom_itx takes a snow day off
[09:49:02] <pcw_home> a 7I64 is a possibility (it has floating inputs/output)
[09:49:42] <R2E4> The inputs is no problem. Everything in this machine triggers ground. I have a relay board I can fanagle, but the relays have common +24vdc and need gnd to energize. I got the wrong board initially cause i didnt check.
[09:49:58] <PetefromTn> R2E4: Thanks man. Does it work well with LCNC?
[09:50:46] <pcw_home> theres a 48 sinking output card (7I72)
[09:50:48] <R2E4> I either change setup, or come up with a scheme to invert the output, or just add 10 relays
[09:51:58] <R2E4> oh, I like that one, but I would need another 7i77 ?
[09:53:07] <R2E4> to get the rs422 port
[09:53:27] <pcw_home> already used on 7I77?
[09:53:49] <R2E4> yeah I have the 7i something. 32in and 16 out
[09:54:16] <pcw_home> unless you need more encoders or analog you dont need another 7I77
[09:54:25] <pcw_home> maybe a 7I74
[09:54:38] <pcw_home> (8 channel RS-422 interface)
[09:56:41] <R2E4> I thought of that, but I didnt like the idea of using ribbon cables.
[09:57:42] <R2E4> wow, 7i74 is only 69.00
[09:58:42] <pcw_home> its just a RS-422 interface/connector board
[10:00:53] <R2E4> Yeah, then I could add whatever I needed after.
[10:01:23] <R2E4> I'll check the computer, I think i have another pci, right next to the 5i25
[10:03:25] <pcw_home> You can use it on P2 of the 5I25
[10:03:30] <R2E4> PetefromTn: I havent connected it and tested it yet. But it should be no problem. have to figure out which wire goes where on the 7i77 pins 16,17,18,19....
[10:03:45] <pcw_home> no need for another 5I25
[10:07:27] <R2E4> I see. ribbon cable on the 5i25 to db25 on the 7i74?
[10:12:10] <pcw_home> if you have a PC case you can get the bracket adapter
[10:13:16] <pcw_home> (which has a short 26 pin IDC receptacle to DB25F flat cable mounted on a PC bracket)
[10:13:38] <pcw_home> I think its like $5.00
[10:20:11] <JT-Shop> the snows have started again
[10:20:15] <Deejay> re
[10:20:17] <JT-Shop> better than sleet
[10:23:02] <PetefromTn> Just cold and rainy here today.
[10:23:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140129-3d-printing-human-organs-may-be-regulated-or-banned-by-2016.html oh great, just when I got my hopes up about getting a new Liver at Costco while I shop for more booze
[10:24:46] <archivist> you need a dna scan before they can print a liver
[10:24:52] <CaptHindsight> meanwhile, printing plastic crap will remain unregulated
[10:25:17] <CaptHindsight> your own cells are used to print your organs
[10:25:42] <archivist> I dont have any spare
[10:26:28] <CaptHindsight> doesn't take that many, you probably wouldn't notice
[10:26:46] <CaptHindsight> it just takes longer to grow the missing ones
[10:29:49] <CaptHindsight> at least the EU patent office is more sane than here in the US
[10:29:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140128-dsm-wins-patent-opposition-appeal-impacting-sla-resins-development.html
[10:32:28] <CaptHindsight> Lighter than water but as strong as steel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koRjc9AyV8Q
[10:36:06] <PetefromTn> Man ya gotta sit back and be amazed at the future of this technology. Imagine a time when suffering some kinda organ failure is not a death sentence just print one with your own tissue and undergo surgery. Possibly no chains to anti rejection drugs you name it. It is reall unbelievable but it is still a very long way away.
[10:37:27] <CaptHindsight> some applications are closer than you think
[10:38:21] <reksio1> yeah and market of cheap chinese printed organs ;)
[10:38:37] <CaptHindsight> I see regulations being the major roadblock since it could be a giant moneymaker if they get their way
[10:39:14] <CaptHindsight> it might be the place to go if you're in the US
[10:39:40] <PetefromTn> Gotta go meet my better half for lunch guys talk later.
[10:40:01] <R2E4> pcw_home: Is the 7i80 available?
[10:41:22] <pcw_home> yes though real time linuxcnc support is still "experimental"
[10:41:56] <CaptHindsight> it would be nice to redirect all that wasted energy on reprap into more productive 3D printing applications
[10:45:02] <R2E4> pcw_home: ok, I'll get the 7i74 and other than the 7i72 is there a sinking output card with inputs? maybe 24 in 16 out or some configuration?
[10:47:02] <pcw_home> Not at the moment (options are 7I64 or normal input card with external pull-ups or 7I69 and some OPTO 22 racks)
[11:11:13] <R2E4> with pullup on the output, logic would have to be backwards right?
[11:12:04] <Tom_itx> active low yes
[11:13:26] <R2E4> with the output off, then you would have the active low and relay energized. Thats not good, if something drops out, that would swing every relay. bad news....
[11:13:41] <pcw_home> for sserial cards with outputs, active high is 'ON'
[11:14:08] <pcw_home> so nothing is energized at startup
[11:15:43] <pcw_home> in other (maybe better) words HAL 'true' = ON regardless of whether the output is sourcing or sinking
[11:17:44] <Tom_itx> yay! i think i finally fixed my router issues
[11:18:07] <JT-Shop> YIPPIE!
[11:18:25] <Tom_itx> care to see if this loads reasonably quick?: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
[11:18:51] <Tom_itx> i had been running my old one until i could figure out the rules i needed
[11:19:28] <Tom_itx> new firmware helped quite a bit too
[11:20:13] <Tom_itx> finished blowing the drive for the first round...
[11:20:28] <JT-Shop> yep, loads right up for me
[11:20:54] <Tom_itx> good, i'll monitor it for a while to see how it does
[11:21:12] <archivist> pagespeed gives you 96/100 here
[11:21:23] <Tom_itx> i think the 'help' i got last time wasn't so much help
[11:21:38] <CaptHindsight> quire zippy here
[11:21:43] <CaptHindsight> quite
[11:22:01] <Tom_itx> it's coming off a 10/100 lan card
[11:22:07] <Tom_itx> the router is gig
[11:22:27] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: which ISP?
[11:22:29] <R2E4> pcw_home: with the pullup, and the output off, it would not be a 0 or com. I am not getting that in my thinking and drawing it out.
[11:22:43] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight what do you mean?
[11:22:50] <Tom_itx> cox is the provider
[11:22:58] <CaptHindsight> ^^
[11:23:48] <Tom_itx> they sent me a bunch of emails about useage recently
[11:23:57] <Tom_itx> i think the router was too 'open'
[11:24:25] <CaptHindsight> AT&T just throttles us but they deny doing so
[11:24:44] <Tom_itx> so does cable but i'm paying for ' better '
[11:24:48] <Tom_itx> not 'best'
[11:24:51] <pcw_home> R2E4: the pullup is for inputs that use pull to ground to sense
[11:24:52] <Tom_itx> not 'bad'
[11:25:43] <CaptHindsight> yeah, going to add cable next, so far we have satellite, DSL, Wimax and 4G
[11:26:27] <R2E4> That explains why its not working
[11:26:42] <Tom_itx> last month they said i used 1000G but i know better
[11:26:47] <CaptHindsight> AT&T offered us fiber 10mb up/down for $1200/mo
[11:28:01] <CaptHindsight> Comcast decided to run the cable in that passed by us for years, 30mb down/10up is ~$110/mo
[11:28:24] <Tom_itx> i think i'm paying for 25m
[11:28:34] <Tom_itx> not sure what the up is
[11:28:39] <Tom_itx> probably 10
[11:28:51] <Tom_itx> says i'm getting 30/17 right now
[11:29:03] <CaptHindsight> nice
[11:29:42] <CaptHindsight> we're 1k ft from the DSLAM and it's only 5mb down/ 300K up
[11:29:47] <Tom_itx> actual isn't that good i'm sure
[11:30:17] <Tom_itx> from here to dallas is pretty good
[11:30:27] <Tom_itx> 25/18
[11:30:43] <CaptHindsight> I host on a server with an OC3 but getting it there can be a pain
[11:30:48] <archivist> 6.5 down .85 up !
[11:30:55] <Tom_itx> WOOT!
[11:31:08] <Tom_itx> LA is 11/10
[11:31:24] <archivist> I feel ripped off here
[11:31:31] <Tom_itx> as you should
[11:31:49] <Tom_itx> i updated the modem same time i got this router too
[11:33:24] <Tom_itx> along with one of their WIFI thingies: http://www.ubnt.com/unifi
[11:34:35] <Tom_itx> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
[11:34:38] <Tom_itx> the router
[11:35:10] <CaptHindsight> now that Sprint has taken over Clear wimax the price jumped 40%
[11:35:33] <R2E4> So I'll use 7i74, and 7i72 to trigger the ground expecting relays.
[11:35:54] <Tom_itx> R2E4 did you look at the 7i84
[11:36:27] <R2E4> I have one.
[11:36:33] <Tom_itx> k
[11:36:41] <R2E4> sourcing output
[11:36:51] <R2E4> I need sinking
[11:38:12] <R2E4> I either get relays to invert or get the mesa cards to sink, both the same cost, but the mesa cards I get much more with expanability.
[11:38:59] <pcw_home> eventually when the NCV7719 becomes available we will update the
[11:39:01] <pcw_home> 7I76/7I77/7I84 to allow sourcing or sinking outputs in groups of 8
[11:39:15] <R2E4> I just received 16 relays to tie onto my outputs of my 7i84.
[11:39:44] <R2E4> 200.00, same cost as 7i72 and 7i74 basically
[11:39:58] <pcw_home> (the NCV7719 can be software configured for sourcing, sinking or push-pull)
[11:41:45] <R2E4> thats what I need. This machine is bizarre. 12Vdc, 24vdc and 100vac for switching. plc relays ground trigger, contactor's for aux motors positive trigger 24vdc
[11:42:44] <skunkworks> opto22....
[11:43:26] <cradek> yep opto22 makes it so easy for all those things
[11:55:28] <R2E4> those are ttl's?
[11:55:32] <R2E4> opto22
[11:57:59] <R2E4> I am weary about using them. switching 100vac causes arcs, and I am running into trouble now with it using those type of relays. Need to use varistor or movs and they should be across the contacts.
[11:58:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.opto22.com/site/pr_selector.aspx?cid=4&qs=1003#10071044 I think they meant to deal will all the different sorts of voltage levels and get them to a common logic level
[11:59:18] <CaptHindsight> R2E4: are you concerned about AC outputs at 100VAC?
[11:59:19] <skunkworks> I am running relays and hydraulic solinoids with them.. No issue
[11:59:23] <skunkworks> have not had any go bad yet
[11:59:44] <CaptHindsight> R2E4: what currents are you switching at 100VAC?
[11:59:46] <cradek> 100vac is nothing for the black oac opto22 modules
[11:59:49] <pcw_home> OPTO22 are SSRs so no arcs
[12:00:06] <cradek> it's true that relays eventually give trouble because of arcing
[12:00:47] <R2E4> I am switching my contactors 100vac which then switches the 3ph 220, and when I apply 100vac supply, it arcs accross my existing relays and coolant comes on and conveyor..,... Thats what I need to eleviate
[12:00:57] <R2E4> ah, SSR...
[12:01:18] <cradek> yikes
[12:01:22] <uw> 100vac? is that like, mains voltage?
[12:01:28] <uw> or do you have some crazy 100vac thing
[12:01:35] <cradek> that sounds like a significant design problem
[12:01:59] <cradek> 100vac is common in japanese machines
[12:02:07] <R2E4> The whole machine switches 100vac, solonoids contactors and some logic.
[12:02:45] <cradek> fortunately for us USians 120 also usually works
[12:03:37] <R2E4> its the 220 3ph to 208 trannies they use
[12:03:37] <uw> oh so 100vac is line voltage in japan
[12:03:37] <uw> i see
[12:03:42] <uw> i knew they used 50hz but didnt know about 100vac
[12:04:07] <Connor> Isn't Japan mixed 50 and 60hz ?
[12:04:18] <uw> i think thats correct too ^'
[12:04:28] <uw> some is 50 , some 60
[12:04:30] <uw> how terrible is that
[12:04:52] <cradek> heh the US used to have some AC some DC
[12:05:09] <Connor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country
[12:05:22] <Connor> East 50, west 60
[12:05:37] <Connor> 120V in military facilities in Okinawa
[12:05:50] <uw> my house in VT has 1 wire... not quite as bad as dif freq or DC, but still pretty sloppy
[12:09:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:09:44] <R2E4> Japan, 100v residential voltage....haha
[12:09:45] <uw> HELLO ICH
[12:10:11] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: there you can go for blanc wirers
[12:10:25] <R2E4> They have varistors or mov's on every contact in that machine
[12:10:27] <Connor> Wow.. Japan is the ONLY 100 V.. everyone else is 110, 120, 220, 230 or 240
[12:11:04] <uw> the losses, will somebody think of the losses!
[12:11:09] <R2E4> The Sanyo Denki servo amps are 100vac in....
[12:12:20] <R2E4> They use dinky little relays in the plc and for the ATC with mov's. I use a big ass honky relay and it arcs....hehe
[12:12:57] <PetefromTn_> Jeez man really getting frustrated trying to get the best deal on my Cat40 holders.
[12:17:28] <R2E4> This drummer is on 100vac....hehe
[12:17:31] <R2E4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E
[12:26:48] <_methods> PetefromTn: auctions
[12:26:56] <_methods> oh
[12:27:16] <_methods> best place i've found to get tool holders
[12:27:45] <_methods> you just gotta hope there's not a bunch of noobs in there that overpay for tool holders
[12:29:01] <PetefromTn> tryin' ebay right now wanted to go with Shars stuff because I have seen them in person and they are decent for the price but the package I wanted them to put together for me did not even match their seperates prices on the ebay.
[12:29:50] <_methods> yeah prices on ebay are meh
[12:30:01] <_methods> you're better off buyin new i think than ebay
[12:30:07] <_methods> talk to local tool distributor
[12:30:28] <_methods> you could get lucky on ebay though
[12:30:47] <PetefromTn> No man these were all new toolholders.
[12:31:45] <PetefromTn> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cat40+er32
[12:32:23] <PetefromTn> Basically what I wanted what a five piece ER32 holder set like this and a 12 piece collet set and a wrench for it .
[12:32:34] <IchGuckLive> depends on what you buy
[12:33:20] <PetefromTn> And the same thing in ER20
[12:33:31] <_methods> oh wow
[12:33:36] <_methods> yeah nm that's a good deal
[12:33:42] <_methods> 5 holders
[12:34:05] <PetefromTn> There are several compeititors on ebay selling similar stuff and I wanted to buy it from shars... only because I know the holders are decent.
[12:34:08] <PetefromTn> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PC-CAT40-ER32-PRECISION-COLLET-CHUCK-AND-12PC-ER32-COLLETS-HAAS-PULL-STUD-TENTH-/221262452001?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3384451521
[12:34:16] <_methods> you can't loose on that one
[12:34:28] <PetefromTn> Like this kit with the collet set and wrench etc.
[12:34:48] <_methods> hell even if they suck you're only out $150
[12:34:52] <PetefromTn> but for some reason they came back with a price that between the two sets was almost $100.00 more..
[12:35:28] <PetefromTn> yeah I know but right now $150.00 feels like a lot of money LOL.
[12:35:42] <_methods> heheh for tooling that's a drop in the bucket
[12:35:52] <PetefromTn> yes I know believe me.
[12:35:59] <_methods> i've smoked inserts that cost more than that lol
[12:36:18] <PetefromTn> It is all fine and dandy when you got a bunch of paying work coming in but I am not there yet.
[12:36:40] <_methods> yeah that is a good deal though i might have to try them out
[12:36:42] <PetefromTn> Just getting this damn machine setup to run right now and I am paying for everything out of my own pocket.
[12:36:54] <_methods> i always stick to techniks for budget holders
[12:37:02] <PetefromTn> They are not too bad and I know several shops local that have them.
[12:37:07] <_methods> yeah gettin a rig running is expensive
[12:37:23] <_methods> people forget how much all that little stuff costs
[12:37:34] <_methods> wire, boxes, tooling, vises
[12:37:35] <PetefromTn> It adds up QUICK.
[12:37:38] <_methods> cut offs
[12:37:59] <_methods> it gets silly real fast
[12:38:17] <PetefromTn> I was hoping to get two kits like that one I posted for around $350.00 or so. Only was hoping to get it from shars.
[12:38:58] <PetefromTn> One in ER32 and one in ER20.
[12:39:01] <_methods> wow i haven't looked at ebay tooling in ages it's gotten way better
[12:39:38] <PetefromTn> You are not affiliated with methods machine tools are ya?
[12:39:43] <_methods> nah
[12:39:47] <_methods> never even heard of it
[12:40:00] <_methods> something local near you?
[12:40:03] <PetefromTn> What sorta machines do you have?
[12:40:54] <_methods> at my shop we got haas, trumpf, komatsu, yama seiki
[12:40:59] <_methods> flow
[12:41:13] <PetefromTn> is it YOUR shop or do you work there?
[12:41:23] <_methods> i work at it
[12:41:27] <_methods> but i do all teh programming
[12:41:37] <PetefromTn> Nice.
[12:41:38] <_methods> i'm in the office anymore
[12:41:47] <_methods> no more setups hehe
[12:42:01] <CaptHindsight> I should write an article in Mandarin about how bearings should not have detents
[12:42:12] <_methods> hehe
[12:42:41] <PetefromTn> Debating whether or not I should try that TotalCNCmachinetools guy.
[12:42:51] <_methods> ordering from him?
[12:43:12] <PetefromTn> yeah
[12:44:08] <_methods> plenty of feedback
[12:44:11] <_methods> i'd feel save with it
[12:44:15] <_methods> free shipping too
[12:44:36] <PetefromTn> yeah I know but dunno how I feel about ebay feedback in general.
[12:44:54] <PetefromTn> Went to their website and cannot find a damn phone number.
[12:45:02] <_methods> hrmm
[12:46:45] <PetefromTn> Hate to sound like a cheapass but it is what it is LOL.
[12:49:21] <CaptHindsight> I picked up a http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-double-bevel-sliding-compound-miter-saw-with-laser-guide-system-69684.html and added a non-ferrous http://www.freudtools.com/p-39-thick-non-ferrous-metalbr-nbsp.aspx blade
[12:49:29] <IchGuckLive> if been disapointed today of china delivery a laser tubehousing has been 1mm off the messurment on the diodes
[12:49:56] <CaptHindsight> cuts through extrusions and t-slot like butter and I have't gotten the motor hot
[12:51:34] <CaptHindsight> the blade cost more than the saw with the discounts at HF
[12:52:41] <CaptHindsight> I wouldn't use it for any steel though
[12:52:43] <_methods> yeah i love my metal chop saw
[12:52:47] <_methods> i use mine for steel
[12:52:49] <_methods> it's a beast
[12:53:19] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LC1230-12-Inch-Metal-Cutting/dp/B00004YOLV
[12:53:28] <_methods> doesn't even leave a burr
[12:54:01] <CaptHindsight> _methods: how is the clamp on that one?
[12:54:05] <_methods> i need to get a new blade
[12:54:09] <_methods> i'ts ok
[12:54:12] <_methods> it works
[12:54:47] <_methods> i've been cutting with it home use for liek 4 years now
[12:55:02] <_methods> i did a couple side jobs with it where it got used pretty heavily
[12:55:18] <CaptHindsight> I stopped using the chop saws on aluminum extrusions, they leave a mess
[12:55:35] <CaptHindsight> great for steel
[12:55:39] <_methods> hell yeah
[12:55:59] <_methods> it's great on aluminum too
[12:56:21] <_methods> it's got that 60 tooth blade
[12:56:45] <CaptHindsight> now I just need to add an encoder to measure lengths and a better clamp
[12:56:51] <_methods> i might try out a non ferrous blade
[12:57:14] <CaptHindsight> get a good one, they last 10x longer
[12:57:21] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Oshlun-SBNF-120120-12-Inch-Aluminum-Ferrous/dp/B0012YF1ZW/ref=pd_sim_hi_3/185-0854052-6113225
[12:57:33] <CaptHindsight> just use wd-40 every few cuts, no wax
[12:57:40] <_methods> k
[12:58:35] <CaptHindsight> Freud has a extra duty version for ~$30 more but lasts a lot longer
[12:58:57] <_methods> i do need to cut some stuff here pretty soon
[12:59:03] <_methods> going to make a fence for my table saw
[12:59:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.freudtools.com/p-38-thin-stock-non-ferrous-metalbr-nbsp.aspx
[12:59:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.freudtools.com/p-40-thin-kerf-non-ferrous-metalbr-nbsp.aspx
[13:00:42] <R2E4> how thick aluminum can you cut with that?
[13:01:14] <CaptHindsight> I cut 4" extrusions with lots of blank features like butter
[13:01:27] <CaptHindsight> 2" solid bar is no problem
[13:02:00] <CaptHindsight> 6061t6
[13:02:01] <R2E4> 1/8" aluminum plate, cut to size say 12"13"
[13:02:06] <R2E4> would that work?
[13:02:26] <CaptHindsight> yeah, no problem, doing that today
[13:02:47] <R2E4> damn, I'm paying extra to get my plates cut to size....hehe
[13:03:05] <CaptHindsight> yeah I buy what I can fit in the truck
[13:03:29] <CaptHindsight> but the metal supplier near me has very fair prices on cutting
[13:03:59] <CaptHindsight> I have them rip the 98 and 144 sheets and plates and I cut to length
[13:05:21] <R2E4> I do lots of these.... http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/alum_plate.jpg
[13:05:32] <CaptHindsight> it's not worth the floor space for me to cut plate and sheet, plus then I have to move 1/4" to 2" plates around with a crane
[13:05:54] <R2E4> yeah....
[13:05:54] <_methods> 2" plates jeebus
[13:06:00] <_methods> that's no fun
[13:06:05] <R2E4> has to be a cutoff point somewhere....
[13:06:21] <_methods> i hate that thick shit
[13:06:29] <CaptHindsight> R2E4: do you anodize the letters?
[13:06:42] <_methods> if i can't load parts by hand..........
[13:07:23] <R2E4> no, the letters are a pocket cut with endmill on Bridgeport, put litium greese on face and spray paint.
[13:08:05] <R2E4> let dry, and paint wipes right off of face.clean up, finish brushing alum and then clear.
[13:08:38] <CaptHindsight> back to making chips, bbl
[13:09:18] <IchGuckLive> chipping is the best off all
[13:09:28] <R2E4> plain or barbeque?
[13:10:07] <R2E4> debating on if I purchase two more mesa cards or not.
[13:12:17] <JT-Shop> why not get 3?
[13:13:02] <R2E4> I allready have three.
[13:14:00] <R2E4> Getting my button panel buttoned up this week, so I will be onto the axis. That I am not looking forward to....
[13:14:44] <R2E4> After ringing out the limit switches.
[13:28:35] <CaptHindsight> where do you guys find your tap and dies for working on tool steels?
[13:33:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.osgtool.com/
[13:37:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rappindustrialsales.com/OSG/Movies/EDM%20vs%20VX%20Tap.wmv edm vs tapping
[13:38:12] <CaptHindsight> tool life 100 hits
[13:38:30] <_methods> love osg taps
[13:38:36] <_methods> hard to beat
[13:38:58] <_methods> hypro for life lol
[13:39:20] <CaptHindsight> just found out they are near me
[13:39:28] <_methods> osg?
[13:39:31] <_methods> you in japan
[13:39:56] <CaptHindsight> the US office near chicago
[13:40:10] <_methods> ah
[13:40:20] <_methods> hell you're near to every toolmaker lol
[13:40:28] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: what is the max rHRC they can go with this tool
[13:40:43] <CaptHindsight> and Shanghai is maybe 2K miles from Japan
[13:41:16] <_methods> shanghai?
[13:41:22] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: http://www.osgtool.com/product_list.asp?type=THREADING&type2=Spiral%20Flute too many to list :)
[13:41:39] <CaptHindsight> my other home
[13:41:48] <_methods> ah i wish
[13:42:14] <IchGuckLive> ok im Off
[13:44:01] <CaptHindsight> >200 hits in 30 rHRC
[13:44:14] <CaptHindsight> but he's gone
[13:52:10] <_methods> the osg thread formers you get some many taps out of them it's silly
[13:52:38] <_methods> unless you're doing food grade or medical i don't know why you'd use anything else
[13:58:54] <ReadError> dumb question
[13:59:05] <ReadError> can I have 2 copies of axis open?
[13:59:25] <ReadError> i fubard a qfn package and need to recut but I have all my home/etc setup on the other machine
[13:59:47] <ReadError> just want to swap parallel cables and keep the other machine open
[13:59:50] <PetefromTn> fubar not good.
[14:01:38] <ReadError> qfn16 4x4 vs qfn16 3x3 ;/
[14:01:55] <ReadError> which im sorta glad I noticed now
[14:03:42] <PetefromTn> whatsa QFN package?
[14:04:35] <ReadError> little SMD part
[14:04:50] <ReadError> just testing part of a board
[14:05:05] <PetefromTn> okay whatsa SMD part?
[14:05:08] * JT-Shop waits for the bleeding to stop
[14:05:41] <ReadError> lol surface mount device
[14:06:36] <PetefromTn> aah okay forgive me I am NOT an electronics guy.
[14:12:45] <uw> saw good
[14:13:16] <ReadError> hmm seems I cant have 2 running
[14:13:23] <ReadError> is there any way to preserve my home?
[14:13:39] * Deejay hands over some super glue to JT-Shop
[14:13:50] <uw> hi DeeJay
[14:14:06] <JT-Shop> the flap disk won
[14:14:13] <Deejay> good to glue skin together (for cuts and so on)
[14:14:15] <Deejay> hi uw
[14:14:54] <_methods> maybe place something against the spindle to mark you location
[14:14:59] <_methods> then try an come back to that point
[14:15:14] <_methods> probably not the best solution
[14:16:42] <_methods> come back with an edgefinder and touch off on whatever you set up there
[14:17:00] <marmite> hmm so anyone know of a channel that is more about cnc and not just emc ? :D
[14:19:01] <cradek> I don't
[14:19:23] <jdh> start #cncbutnotlinuxcnc
[14:19:33] <_methods> hehe
[14:19:33] <marmite> :P
[14:20:02] <cradek> nobody complains about general cnc talk here unless it's evangalizing some particular software, particularly if nonfree
[14:20:12] <cradek> so just don't sweat it
[14:20:16] <marmite> ^^
[14:20:19] <jdh> or if it starts with mach
[14:20:33] <Deejay> hrhr
[14:20:38] <marmite> :P
[14:20:41] <_methods> haha
[14:20:42] <marmite> yeah mach
[14:20:46] <marmite> aids
[14:21:12] <cradek> or "how do I get free support for such-and-such commercial software that I dubiously have"
[14:21:17] <marmite> nah iam thinking of getting a caucau850 router for my machine...
[14:21:28] <uw> lol mach = aids
[14:21:31] <uw> so tru
[14:21:33] <_methods> heheh askin for post processors lol
[14:21:35] <marmite> havent really found any good info about it
[14:22:53] <marmite> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fresadora-CNC-Universal-Router-CNC-Spindle-CauCau-850-W-/191053921597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item2c7bb37d3d looks fancy, like a rifpoff of a kress router and so on
[14:23:54] <_methods> looks like a harbor freight trim router
[14:28:54] <jdh> no runout specs
[14:38:28] <marmite> yeah
[14:38:53] <marmite> hmm i have mostly used my dremel for engraving and smaller milling but wanna uppgrade :D but dont wanto buy a kress for 160 yet
[14:52:22] <Einar_> Even better: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kavo-SF-Handstuck-mit-Knieanlasser-/191057550732?pt=Laborger%C3%A4te_Zahntechnik&hash=item2c7beadd8c
[14:52:52] <Einar_> Makes the Dremel feel like a toy!
[14:54:16] <Einar_> Oucch. Not much feedback on seller!
[15:05:22] <JT-Shop> if i double the area will the flow rate reduce by 1/2? I'm talking about a hydraulic return line in the tank
[15:07:29] <marmite> yeah.but that woudemt be sp good for milling aluminium thoe
[15:09:11] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-800W-CNC-Router-Water-Cooled-Cooling-Spindle-Motor-1-5KW-Inverter-Drive-/121121501567?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3367717f
[15:10:27] <_methods> or way cheaper
[15:10:30] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-12V-48V-air-cooled-Spindle-Motor-With-Mount-Bracket-for-Engraving-Machine/221273761211?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D19839%26meid%3D4605725690893233838%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D8934%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D121121501567%26
[15:11:50] <marmite> ould be nice but the smallrt ontr is probenly to smsl
[15:12:26] <marmite> 1~belive it would be to small, fine for engraving
[15:14:51] <marmite> http://m.ebay.com/itm/191053215111?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 is my goal
[15:15:08] <marmite> but that is leater on
[15:16:19] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn QFN is Quad Flat Noleads
[15:16:43] <Tom_itx> _methods what software do you program with?
[15:16:48] <JT-Shop> well that took about 10 seconds to generate the G code for 12 holes :)
[15:17:02] <Tom_itx> that long!?
[15:17:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, have you done anymore with your generator
[15:17:47] <JT-Shop> just use it
[15:18:03] <JT-Shop> version 1.5.8
[15:18:14] <Tom_itx> i dunno the last one i got
[15:26:56] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Thanks man.
[15:29:55] <Tom_itx> bugger to hand solder
[15:34:43] <MrHindsight> irc client now on a shop PC, let the distractions begin
[15:35:04] <PetefromTn> I know right..
[15:54:06] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I do see a change I'll make in the morning, rapid to XY then rapid to Z clearance
[16:01:53] <Deejay> gn8
[16:11:05] <PetefromTn> Apparently I am a complete dumbass because I STILL cannot seem to get my head wrapped around setting up new tools....reading thru the tool table and whatnot now.
[16:31:53] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/gen05.html
[16:34:06] <14WAB14RJ> Anyone know if Omron VFDs might be a rebrand of any of thse supported ones ? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
[16:34:08] <PetefromTn> Thanks JT already been reading that.
[16:34:43] <PetefromTn> I just setup a new tool that is shorter than the rest and my length is huge again. Not sure what the hell I am doing wrong.
[16:36:07] <einar__> Finally the ATC behaves well enough to be used. Good place to start.
[16:39:11] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, sounds like you're adding offsets to offsets
[16:39:47] <PetefromTn> HOnestly I don't understand what the hell I am doing and the literature I am reading does not seem to help.
[16:40:08] <JT-Shop> when setting up tools follow the step by step, I bet you're forgetting to set touch off to fixture
[16:40:20] <PetefromTn> Nope did that.
[16:40:30] <PetefromTn> Followed the steps VERY CAREFULLY.
[16:40:37] <JT-Shop> describe your procedure
[16:40:49] <PetefromTn> Do I need to somehow load another tool that is already in the machine tool table to reference to somehow?
[16:40:59] <PetefromTn> Okay
[16:41:20] <PetefromTn> I ran this part previously so there is already two tool in the table that work great.
[16:41:37] <PetefromTn> So I come out here today and setup the champfer mill I am gonna run today.
[16:41:45] <PetefromTn> I turn on the machine and home it out.
[16:42:13] <PetefromTn> Then I followed that tutorial and select MDI and input T44 M6 G43
[16:42:39] <PetefromTn> Actually I could not do that first when I tried it said there is no tool 44 present
[16:42:41] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn touchoff to workpiece
[16:42:52] <PetefromTn> So I had to open the tool table and hit add new tool.
[16:42:56] <JT-Shop> add tool 44 to your tool table
[16:43:00] <JT-Shop> ok
[16:43:14] <PetefromTn> Then I put 44 in tool number and pocket since I do not have a changer yet.
[16:43:18] <Tom_itx> let linuxcnc add the offset, don't do it manually
[16:43:32] <PetefromTn> Then I hit MDI T44 M6 G43 again,
[16:43:41] <PetefromTn> It says put the tool in and I did.
[16:43:44] <PetefromTn> Hit okay.
[16:44:01] <JT-Shop> good so far
[16:44:09] <Tom_itx> jog to your touchoff point
[16:44:14] <PetefromTn> Then I go back to manual control screen and jog the table and head to my 123 block spot I like to touch off.
[16:44:29] <PetefromTn> Then I put my 123 block in there and touch off.
[16:44:33] <Tom_itx> then, make sure the Z axis is selected
[16:44:37] <PetefromTn> I hit touch off button.
[16:44:43] <Tom_itx> make sure the Z axis is selected
[16:44:45] <Tom_itx> make sure the Z axis is selected
[16:44:47] <PetefromTn> Z axis is selected and Machine touch off to fixture.
[16:44:56] <Tom_itx> touchoff to workpiece
[16:45:02] <Tom_itx> is how i do it
[16:45:09] <JT-Shop> that's done after Tom_itx
[16:45:11] <andypugh> Swapper_: I think Omron are a big enough brand ot not be a rebrand.
[16:45:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i just leave it set there
[16:45:22] <PetefromTn> So I then hit touch off to tool table.
[16:45:28] <PetefromTn> and leave it at zero.
[16:45:28] <Swapper_> There servodrives are yaskawa so..
[16:45:40] <JT-Shop> good so far
[16:45:48] <PetefromTn> and I click the tool table and the offset is like -811 or some
[16:45:56] <PetefromTn> WAY longer than it should be.
[16:46:27] <JT-Shop> do you have a G92 in effect?
[16:46:37] <PetefromTn> My tool 2 is at zero and my other tool 23 is at -51
[16:46:44] <PetefromTn> how do I know?
[16:46:49] <Tom_itx> it reads the offset from the top down
[16:46:54] <Tom_itx> not from the bottom up
[16:46:59] <JT-Shop> I never look at the tool table, I just reload the tool to refresh axis
[16:47:24] <JT-Shop> I'm afraid I know how you know
[16:47:28] <PetefromTn> Tools need to be close to each other based on length or programs will not work.
[16:47:57] <JT-Shop> I don't understand that
[16:48:02] <Tom_itx> they need to be within the work envelope
[16:48:14] <PetefromTn> The tool I setup first was at zero
[16:48:26] <Tom_itx> if a cutter can't be set because it's too long for the work envelope, then it won't work
[16:48:35] <JT-Shop> after you set the first tool up did you touch off to material?
[16:48:41] <PetefromTn> it is a drill bit right now but will change once I get my new toolholders to setup my edge finder.
[16:48:43] <andypugh> This was a short tool, wasnt it?
[16:48:55] <PetefromTn> no I touched off to fixture.
[16:49:11] <Tom_itx> i touchoff all mine to workpiece
[16:49:18] <JT-Shop> after you touch off all your tools to a fixture then you need to touch off one to the material
[16:49:19] <Tom_itx> never had any issues with it
[16:49:29] <Swapper_> andypugh: you probably know if it would be possible to emulate a encoder feedback for rigidtapping from step gen output?
[16:49:31] <PetefromTn> yeah I know that is the procedure '
[16:49:45] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I do that as well if I'm not changing tools during a program run
[16:49:50] <PetefromTn> but why when I do the exact same thing for this new tool is the offset so different.
[16:49:57] <andypugh> PetefromTn: If you put in a previously-used tool, does the top of the block look to be Z=0?
[16:50:08] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop i do it even if i am
[16:50:16] <PetefromTn> no..
[16:50:24] <PetefromTn> standby I will check..
[16:50:46] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I might have different heights on material so I touch off to material
[16:50:50] <Tom_itx> i always had issues touching off to fixture
[16:50:56] <andypugh> Swapper_: Interesting question. You would need to emulate an index, and have something that can be zeroed.
[16:51:22] <Swapper_> i might have the index from the drive but i cant get encoder out
[16:51:23] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, until you get the procedure down do a chicken check after you load a new tool
[16:51:34] <Swapper_> its the same terminals as step/dir input
[16:51:35] <Tom_itx> so i use a 123 block, touch all my tools off to that using 'touchoff to material'
[16:51:43] * JT-Shop takes the dog out to play in the snow before it gets dark
[16:51:44] <Tom_itx> then i set the material with one of the tools loaded
[16:52:05] <Swapper_> and i guess the maker of the servosystem did not think anyone would run step/dir input with encoder feedback....
[16:52:34] <Swapper_> worst case i can mount a index on the spindle.
[16:52:47] <PetefromTn> Okay I just raised the head up
[16:53:04] <PetefromTn> went to MDi and input t2 m6 g43 and go.
[16:53:14] <PetefromTn> I inserted the tool2 which worked fine.
[16:53:17] <Swapper_> but can i get rigid taping working with no encoder feedback (only step/dir) ?
[16:53:34] <PetefromTn> then I lowered the head down to the 123 block and the dro's are not at zero.
[16:53:36] <Swapper_> the folowing accuracy should not be a problem
[16:53:42] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn, what is your Machine menu --> touchoff set to?
[16:53:45] <Swapper_> since its a servo
[16:54:01] <andypugh> Swapper_: Might be interesting to write a comp that turns encoder counts into something that looks like an encoder, and that does index-enable stuff.
[16:54:06] <PetefromTn> fixture
[16:54:14] <Tom_itx> i don't do it that way
[16:54:28] <PetefromTn> yeah I know you said that already.
[16:54:34] <Swapper_> andypugh: you mean step/dir into encoder counts ?
[16:54:45] <Tom_itx> and i use multiple tools in a program with no issues
[16:54:45] <PetefromTn> I NEED to do it this way especially once I get the toolchanger working.
[16:54:52] <Tom_itx> why?
[16:55:09] <Tom_itx> it's the same basic way i set up our other machines
[16:55:15] <PetefromTn> I plan to have a tool length touch probe eventually.
[16:55:34] <Tom_itx> that's fine, we did too
[16:55:42] <Tom_itx> we had a 2" led indicator
[16:55:52] <PetefromTn> man I am so freakin confused with this system...
[16:56:32] <Tom_itx> i had the same offset problems touching off to fixture
[16:57:18] <PetefromTn> ALL I know is I want to be able to turn the damn thing on and home it out and load a new tool without problems
[16:57:42] <PetefromTn> I want to do it off a 123 block in a particular spot on the table for consistency.
[16:57:56] <PetefromTn> Also so once I get a TLS in there I can just use it the same way.
[16:59:14] <PetefromTn> I don't understand why if I put the zero tooll in the spindle and run down to the touchoff block it is nowhere near where it was before.
[17:01:47] <PetefromTn> I am sure it is some setting I am not getting right.
[17:01:55] <Swapper_> good night
[17:08:38] <PetefromTn> Chris had me select G59 the other day as I recall what would be the reason for that.
[17:08:45] <PetefromTn> during the tool setup.
[17:11:11] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, if you have an offset in effect and you touch off then you add them together
[17:11:37] <JT-Shop> that's what touch off to fixture does select G59.3 or something like that
[17:12:22] <PetefromTn> Don't understand that.
[17:12:38] <PetefromTn> How do I know if I have an offset in effect?
[17:12:58] <JT-Shop> say you have an offset in G54 and you set the tool table with touch off to material they get added together
[17:13:20] <JT-Shop> the dro
[17:13:32] <JT-Shop> you running 2.5.3?
[17:13:34] <PetefromTn> But I did not touch off to the material I touched off to fixture.
[17:13:46] <Tom_itx> G54 is the default offset
[17:13:50] <PetefromTn> I do have a G54 offset in there from the previous program/
[17:14:52] <JT-Shop> G54 is the default coordinate system
[17:14:54] <Tom_itx> zero it to one of your tools
[17:15:12] <JT-Shop> the material or the 123 block?
[17:15:36] <PetefromTn> the current G54 offset is the zero of the part I ran the other day that I need to machine on again.
[17:15:44] <Tom_itx> wherever the G54 Z0 offset is going to be for the program
[17:16:14] <Tom_itx> i generally set mine above the workpiece and adjust my cad program to suit
[17:16:18] <Tom_itx> it's a safety factor
[17:16:39] <Tom_itx> so it will clear all fixtures if sent to zero
[17:16:57] <Tom_itx> i've seen other shops do it differently around here
[17:17:40] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, if you load a tool from yesterday and select G55 is it Z0 on your 123 block
[17:17:41] <Tom_itx> there's more than one way to do a setup, i'm used to this one
[17:17:42] <PetefromTn> When I set these two tools that are in the table I had not yet set G54..
[17:18:00] <Tom_itx> set G54 with one loaded
[17:18:03] <Tom_itx> see what happens
[17:18:16] <PetefromTn> so MDI G54 then..
[17:18:18] <Tom_itx> touchoff to workpiece
[17:18:24] <Tom_itx> in the machine menu
[17:19:09] <PetefromTn> Tom it is not gonna be zero because I set the tool to the 123 block and then set the G54 offset to the top of the workpiece..
[17:19:47] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Why would I select G55?
[17:20:17] <JT-Shop> to see what the tool offset is without any coordinate system offsets
[17:20:30] <PetefromTn> okay standby,,'
[17:20:45] <JT-Shop> all your tools should be Z0 on the 123 block in G55
[17:21:42] <Tom_itx> the idea is that you set all the tools so they are in relationship to each other
[17:22:07] <PetefromTn> yeah I know..
[17:22:15] <PetefromTn> Okay just selected G55
[17:22:16] <Tom_itx> you pick a tool then and set the G54 Z0 offset using the tool selected
[17:22:34] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: I know that once the tools are set.
[17:23:17] <PetefromTn> Right now the preview screen DROs stay the same in Machine position or relative position?
[17:24:06] <PetefromTn> This is so fucked up.. is there a way I can start over with it?
[17:24:20] <Tom_itx> sure
[17:24:50] <PetefromTn> Can I just rehome the machine and start over with the tool.
[17:25:19] <Tom_itx> i will set mine along with you if you want to follow along
[17:25:47] <PetefromTn> Yeah but understand Tom that I need to do the touchoff on the 123 block like before.
[17:26:12] <Tom_itx> ok i will use a 123 block then
[17:26:16] <Tom_itx> doesn't matter
[17:26:18] <PetefromTn> what the hell is the difference between the touch off to workpiece and touch off to fixture.
[17:26:50] <PetefromTn> besides the obvious I mean...
[17:27:08] <PetefromTn> I understand and have touched off the first tool to the work MANY MANY TIMEs...
[17:27:59] <JT-Shop> Tool touch off to workpiece - When performing Touch Off, the value entered is relative to the current workpiece (G5x) coordinate system, as modified by the axis offset (G92). When the Touch Off is complete, the Relative coordinate for the chosen axis will become the value entered. See G10 L10 in the G code chapter.
[17:28:04] <Tom_itx> ok i grabbed 3 random tools
[17:28:07] <JT-Shop> Tool touch off to fixture - When performing Touch Off, the value entered is relative to the ninth (G59.3) coordinate system, with the axis offset (G92) ignored. This is useful when there is a tool touch-off fixture at a fixed location on the machine, with the ninth (G59.3) coordinate system set such that the tip of a zero-length tool is at the fixture’s origin when the Relative coordinates are 0. See G10 L11 in the G code chapter.
[17:29:11] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis.html#_menu_items
[17:29:18] <PetefromTn> Okay that fixture offset is what I want because I want to do the touchoffs the same way all the time regardless of the worpiece.
[17:29:33] <Tom_itx> since i don't have a setup on the machine right now, i will use the 2" side of the 123 to set the tools
[17:29:50] <PetefromTn> I was using the 3" but whatever.
[17:30:02] <Tom_itx> i will use the 1" side as the G54 Z0 offset as if that's where i wanted to start
[17:30:09] <Tom_itx> i can use 3" if it makes you happy
[17:30:32] <Tom_itx> i may not have enough room under this sherline though
[17:30:32] <PetefromTn> Are you gonna use the fixture offset coordinate system here?
[17:30:48] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna go thru it step by step
[17:30:52] <PetefromTn> I don't suppose it should matter..
[17:31:07] <PetefromTn> okay standby and let me home this bitch out..
[17:32:50] <atom1> ok done with the phone.. hopefully
[17:33:02] * atom1 'homes this bitch'
[17:33:29] <PetefromTn> Okay it is homed out and I went to MDI G54 like it was when I first turned it on this morning.
[17:33:56] <atom1> yes, mine defaulted to G54
[17:33:57] <PetefromTn> right now tool 2 is in the spindle which is already loaded into the tool table.'
[17:34:02] <atom1> as shown in the mdi window
[17:34:25] * atom1 goes to find 'tool2'
[17:34:51] <atom1> what other tools will we be setting?
[17:35:02] <PetefromTn> for me just tool 44
[17:35:15] <atom1> i don't have a 44 but i will fake it
[17:35:26] <PetefromTn> tool 2 is already setup in the tool table understand.
[17:35:36] <PetefromTn> it has an accurate offset.
[17:36:18] <atom1> call up T2: mdi: T2 M6 G43 H2
[17:36:32] <PetefromTn> do you need the H2?
[17:36:42] <atom1> probably not
[17:36:48] <PetefromTn> standby
[17:36:54] <atom1> i think it defaults but it wouldn't hurt for this exercise
[17:37:21] <PetefromTn> okay done.
[17:38:07] <PetefromTn> bottom of screen says tool 2 offset zero diameter zero.
[17:38:44] <atom1> jog to touch the 3" side of the block
[17:38:54] <PetefromTn> standby
[17:39:06] <atom1> then select the Z axis and 'Touch Off'
[17:39:10] <atom1> select the tool table
[17:39:13] <JT-Shop> too many cooks in this kitchen
[17:40:26] <PetefromTn> agreed..
[17:40:43] <atom1> my Machine -> 'Touch off to workpiece' is selected
[17:41:01] <atom1> so do that before you enter it in the tool table
[17:41:04] <PetefromTn> okay tool tip is on top of the 123 block... select tool touch off to what and why not touch off to fixture?
[17:41:16] <atom1> no questions
[17:41:20] <atom1> follow me
[17:41:26] <atom1> :)
[17:41:46] * atom1 wades into some really deep water
[17:42:30] <PetefromTn> okay touched off and offset at bottom of page says -90.7924
[17:42:30] <atom1> so with touchoff to workpiece selected, set the Tool offset for T2 in the tool table
[17:42:50] <atom1> next tool
[17:43:02] <atom1> MDI: T44 M6 G43 H44
[17:43:03] <andypugh> I am keeping put of this because I don't understand the difference between touch-off to work and touch-off to fixture, but I think that the latter stores the absolote position of the bloack relative to the home switches in the last coordinate system.
[17:43:36] <PetefromTn> hang on man how do I set the tool offset for t2 in the tool table?
[17:44:19] <PetefromTn> shouldn't it be zero?
[17:44:20] <atom1> manual control tab
[17:44:28] <atom1> select the Z axis
[17:44:36] <atom1> then push the Touchoff Button
[17:44:39] <atom1> in axis
[17:44:45] <atom1> select 'tool table'
[17:44:49] <atom1> from the dropdown menu
[17:45:05] <atom1> my tool table is not open in any window
[17:45:10] <PetefromTn> I thought we already did that?
[17:45:13] <atom1> as yours is ( I bet )
[17:45:35] <atom1> did you?
[17:45:41] <atom1> if you did, t2 is set
[17:45:59] <PetefromTn> okay.
[17:46:10] <atom1> select the next tool with the mdi command ^^
[17:46:11] <PetefromTn> how come the offset is not zero?
[17:46:20] <atom1> ignore it for now
[17:46:30] <PetefromTn> Okay I am gonna jog up the head to change to the next tool.
[17:46:32] <atom1> you're thinking too much
[17:46:54] <atom1> mine happens to be T1 but i'll pretend it's T44
[17:47:10] <PetefromTn> okay so t44 m6 G43 H44 then?
[17:47:12] <atom1> it's about 3" longer than the tool i just set
[17:47:21] <atom1> jog to the top of the 123 block
[17:47:57] <PetefromTn> okay it says tool 44 not found in the tool table because I deleted it.
[17:48:29] <PetefromTn> go ahead and hit add tool and type in 44?
[17:48:37] <atom1> yes i suppose
[17:48:52] <atom1> i should try that to follow along
[17:49:18] <PetefromTn> okay I hit add tool and typed 44 into tool and 44 into poc.
[17:49:22] <PetefromTn> Then I hit save.
[17:49:37] <atom1> where do you add the tool?
[17:49:58] <atom1> i just get an error. i generally make sure the table contains the tools i use
[17:50:00] <PetefromTn> there is a button that says add tool down below in the table.
[17:50:28] <atom1> ok, my table isn't open...
[17:50:49] <PetefromTn> okay I just redid the MDI T44 M6 G43 H44 and it says load the tool.
[17:51:18] <PetefromTn> hit okay..
[17:51:22] <atom1> ok i have a t44 now
[17:51:33] <atom1> touchoff to the 3" side as before
[17:51:37] <PetefromTn> screen says tool 44 ofset zero diam zero.
[17:52:12] <atom1> my T44 offset is 1.8556
[17:52:27] <atom1> i didn't enter any other data about it
[17:52:39] <atom1> you will add the diameter sometime
[17:53:09] <PetefromTn> okay tool 44 is atop the 123 block 3" side..
[17:53:21] <PetefromTn> Go to manual control and hit touch off to table...
[17:53:32] <atom1> i said it was a 1" cutter even though it isn't
[17:53:38] <PetefromTn> hit okay...
[17:53:39] <atom1> then saved and reloaded the tool table
[17:53:40] <atom1> yes
[17:53:49] <atom1> set the tool offset as before
[17:54:13] <atom1> now with that tool still loaded, jog to where your G54 offset will be
[17:54:13] <PetefromTn> now the screen says tool 44 offset -158.96 daim zero.
[17:54:42] <atom1> i am gonna use the 1" side of the block since i don't have a fixture set up
[17:54:50] <atom1> that will be my G54 Z0 offset
[17:54:58] <atom1> so jog to that point
[17:56:06] <atom1> once you're there, Touchoff but this time use the G54 offset from the dropdown list
[17:56:32] <atom1> i'm also going to set my x and y at this time
[17:57:47] <PetefromTn> Okay I set G54 in MDI
[17:57:47] <atom1> now i have a "ZERO AXIS" button in my pyvcp which i will push
[17:57:55] <PetefromTn> Then I said GoXO
[17:57:58] <PetefromTn> GoYo
[17:58:24] <atom1> is it where you want it to be?
[17:58:26] <PetefromTn> it went to my part and I touched off atop my 123 block inputting 1" and touchoff..
[17:58:34] <PetefromTn> yeah.
[17:58:39] <atom1> in the G54?
[17:58:46] <atom1> now
[17:58:53] <PetefromTn> G54 is at 0,0,1.0
[17:59:09] <atom1> MDI: T2 M6 G43 H4
[17:59:26] <atom1> and also tell it to G0 X0 Y0 Z0
[17:59:41] <atom1> it should place the tool where the tip of the other one just was
[17:59:44] <PetefromTn> gotta raise the head up standby
[18:00:40] <atom1> which is what mine just did
[18:01:17] <atom1> you can leave the tool out if you care to
[18:01:20] * JT-Shop is sad his tutorial has failed
[18:01:38] <atom1> JT-Shop, i initially used yours so don't feel bad
[18:02:21] <andypugh> I tried to rapid a non-rotating drill through my table this evening.
[18:02:23] <atom1> i just always leave mine set to 'touchoff to workpiece' in the machine menu
[18:02:30] <PetefromTn> okay that did not work it is wanting to go thru the part by four inches.
[18:02:51] <atom1> then something else is wrong
[18:02:57] <andypugh> Then did it again before realising the problem. I had interrupted the G-code with canned cycles active...
[18:03:44] <PetefromTn> WTF over?
[18:04:02] <atom1> you set it to 'touchoff to workpiece' in the Machine menu?
[18:04:18] <PetefromTn> yeah and have not changed it.
[18:04:39] <atom1> is your tool table open?
[18:04:45] <PetefromTn> yeah.
[18:04:52] <atom1> i never leave mine open
[18:05:09] <PetefromTn> just noticed tool 2 is still set to zero.
[18:05:15] <PetefromTn> in the tool table.
[18:05:17] <atom1> do the steps again with it closed
[18:05:29] <andypugh> If you are using a 123 block habitually then you probaby want to touch-off tools to fixture. I don't know how you set the work position in that case though. (I never use it).
[18:05:31] <PetefromTn> what difference does that make?
[18:06:00] <atom1> i did the exact steps you did and i have a tool setup ready to cut parts
[18:06:16] <atom1> my tool table was however closed
[18:06:38] <andypugh> If you are touching off to workpiece then I have a feeling that the 123 block is the workpiece, and you need to make sure that the G54 offsets are set right before touching off to it.
[18:06:40] <atom1> after i edited it to add T44
[18:06:42] <PetefromTn> yeah I know.. Was I supposed to click save it or something somewhere.
[18:07:03] <andypugh> I wonder if you have a corrupted vars file and the G54 offsets are not sticky?
[18:07:05] <atom1> andypugh, i just set the workpiece G54 AFTER setting the tools
[18:07:34] <atom1> he was having some other issues with something that i'm not entirely sure of
[18:07:40] <andypugh> atom1: What do you set the tools to, then?
[18:07:43] <atom1> having to do with variables
[18:08:04] <atom1> i just now set the tools to a 3" side of the 123 block
[18:08:23] <atom1> THEN i set the G54 Z0 with the last tool loaded
[18:08:50] <PetefromTn> Tom everything you did is correct of course.
[18:09:08] <PetefromTn> But i am wondering if there is something to do with the fixture touchoff I already did with the same tool?
[18:09:08] <atom1> we did the same thing with the Okumas and Trees but we used a standard .500 dowel pin usually
[18:09:22] <andypugh> atom1: What happens if you put in a silly G54 offset then try setting up a tool again?
[18:09:40] <atom1> like what?
[18:09:56] <PetefromTn> I can see the problem here.
[18:10:11] <PetefromTn> Remember when we setup the tool 2 at first and I said it was at like -90.
[18:10:22] <atom1> sorta
[18:10:28] <PetefromTn> apparently it never saved that number into the tool table because it is still showing 0
[18:10:43] <atom1> close the tool table and rerun the exercise
[18:10:54] <PetefromTn> perhaps it is because it is open like you said or I have to do something in loading the table differently.
[18:11:01] <PetefromTn> okay standby..
[18:11:58] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Maybe set up a bunch of wax-crayon "tools" to save worries :-)
[18:12:13] <atom1> andypugh, we would always set our fixture offset above any clamps or material
[18:12:23] <atom1> heh
[18:12:46] <atom1> then in our cad program we would lower the part to match the offset
[18:13:11] <atom1> usually it would be 3 or 6" depending on how big the part was
[18:13:23] <PetefromTn> Okay guys I gotta take a break here to eat dinner. be back in a bit. thanks for your help.
[18:13:30] <andypugh> Sleep time for me. Night all
[18:13:39] <atom1> the progrmmer would know about this and set all the clearance planes accordingly
[18:14:40] <JT-Shop> atom1, you do know that setting your tools in g54 limits you to using only g54
[18:14:50] <atom1> no
[18:15:04] <atom1> you can set any other fixture offset from that as well
[18:15:44] <atom1> where you would get into trouble would be if you were using machine coordinates with your gcode
[18:16:25] <JT-Shop> you would have to reset every tool to use g55
[18:16:35] <atom1> i don't think so
[18:16:51] <atom1> i could test it i suppose
[18:17:16] <atom1> the reason i say this is because the tools are set relative to the tools
[18:18:24] <atom1> let me set up a g55 offset and try it
[18:23:53] <atom1> works just fine
[18:24:06] <atom1> changed tools and offsets both
[18:24:13] <atom1> and both went to the expected point
[18:25:58] <atom1> as long as you set the offset with the loaded tool any other tool will follow the offset
[18:27:48] <RyanS> what do you think of the design of this 3-D printer? Someone claimed the cantilever Y axis could be unstable http://makezine.com/review/guide-to-3d-printing-2014/felix-2-0/
[18:29:10] <atom1> whoever claimed that would probably be right
[18:30:43] <RyanS> hmm but 3-D printers aren't exactly under load..
[18:30:57] <atom1> machine parts wear
[18:31:00] <atom1> what happens then?
[18:31:11] <atom1> it will sag
[18:31:48] <RyanS> Because the Z is only mounted from one point?
[18:31:57] <atom1> that's my take on it
[18:32:58] <RyanS> hmm, I believe the new model uses injection mould parts if that's of any consequence
[18:33:07] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop i'm not saying other methods won't work but that's how i was used to doing it from the big machines
[18:33:57] <Tom_itx> like i said earlier, there are shops around here that set their offsets up differently
[18:34:12] <Tom_itx> i never quite understood how they did it
[18:35:52] <RyanS> I suppose it could very well have good print quality when its new, but yeah.. wear
[18:36:43] <atom1> on the plus side, they don't move much in z
[18:37:00] <toastyde2th> Tom_itx, g54 just means the g54 z offset is always 0
[18:37:05] <RyanS> yeah only when you go to the next layer
[18:37:25] <toastyde2th> the other way to do it is to set the g54 z height to the height of tool 1
[18:37:32] <toastyde2th> and then set z0 for H1
[18:37:47] <atom1> same basic idea yes
[18:38:14] <atom1> i've actually entered the G54 offset value first at times
[18:39:36] <Tom_itx> what really screwed with my head was when we used a tooling ball as the reference point
[18:40:08] <toastyde2th> lol
[18:40:12] <toastyde2th> touch probe?
[18:40:27] <Tom_itx> i honestly don't remember... we didn't do it often enough
[18:40:36] <Tom_itx> the machine did have a probe on it
[18:40:55] <toastyde2th> ya, machines with probes like using the probe as the reference point for everything
[18:42:47] <PetefromTn_> Okay guys back again.
[18:44:21] <atom1> PetefromTn_, while you were afk i tried setting up a 2nd G55 offset and it worked as well
[18:45:14] <PetefromTn_> okay..
[18:45:22] <PetefromTn_> gonna restart the whole damn machine now...
[18:45:33] <jdh> this isn't windows
[18:45:52] <atom1> heh
[18:47:18] <jdh> mccumber has a 'shop'?
[18:47:20] <jdh> <urk>
[18:48:36] <PetefromTn_> okay homing..
[18:49:45] <atom1> what's rapid on that thing?
[18:50:00] <atom1> our fadal was only 200ipm
[18:50:14] <PetefromTn_> like 600 or so but I got it backed off quite a bit due to my being scared shitless..
[18:50:24] <atom1> heh
[18:50:30] <atom1> yeah the okumas didn't mess around
[18:50:58] <PetefromTn_> actually I think during setup we saw 750 but we wound up setting it to 650 as I recall just for longevity.
[18:51:30] <PetefromTn_> was thinking about this during dinner.
[18:52:19] <PetefromTn_> I think Chris was saying to use the Fixture offset coordinate system for some reason. I think it might have something to do with the toolchanger eventually.
[18:52:52] <Tom_itx> i'm pretty sure that's what we were doing
[18:53:16] <PetefromTn_> When i used mach3 there was just your offsets and then G54. Dunno if they even have fixture offset and if they did I never used it but it did not have a toolchanger either.
[18:53:45] <PetefromTn_> No I thought we were in workpiece offset.
[18:54:03] <Tom_itx> i don't think a toolchanger would affect that
[18:54:22] <PetefromTn_> I honestly don't know..
[18:54:25] <Tom_itx> i had you touchoff to workpiece yes
[18:54:33] <Tom_itx> but we were using fixture offsets
[18:54:45] <Tom_itx> you were not running from machine coordinates
[18:54:57] <Tom_itx> 'home
[18:54:58] <Tom_itx> '
[18:55:33] <Tom_itx> it makes cad layout easier
[18:55:54] <Tom_itx> you can determine in the cad where your G54 55 etc offsets will be
[18:56:11] <Tom_itx> then you just relay that on to the operator
[18:56:27] <Tom_itx> we generally printed a setup sheet for them
[18:56:47] <_methods> g10
[18:56:49] <PetefromTn_> I will probably just write programs and then setup the offsets on the machine.
[18:56:56] <_methods> that way it's in teh program
[18:57:43] <PetefromTn_> G10?
[18:57:53] <Tom_itx> set tool table
[18:57:58] <Tom_itx> G10 L1
[18:58:01] <Tom_itx> etc
[18:58:03] <_methods> yeah g10l2
[18:58:05] <Tom_itx> i don't use it
[18:58:19] <_methods> i love it
[18:58:20] <Tom_itx> alot of guys hand writing their gcode probably do
[18:58:28] <_methods> makes set up way easier
[18:58:35] <Tom_itx> there are many methods to set up a machine
[18:58:38] <_methods> yeah
[18:58:41] <Tom_itx> it's whatever you're comfortable with
[18:58:43] <Tom_itx> or used to
[18:59:02] <_methods> yeah if you're just starting you may not want to use g10's
[18:59:19] <Tom_itx> if you use cad cam you may not either
[18:59:32] <Tom_itx> i suppose it just depends...
[18:59:36] <_methods> i do i set it up in my programs before it ever goes in the floor
[18:59:43] <_methods> then next time they load it's all there
[18:59:51] <_methods> they might have to make small adjusts
[19:00:00] <Tom_itx> what cadcam do you use?
[19:00:04] <_methods> but all the xyz's for all fixutres are there
[19:00:07] <_methods> mastercam
[19:00:07] <PetefromTn_> I just want to setup my tools to the tool table using I guess fixture offset until someone tells me for sure it does not matter if I use workpiece offset and learn how to do it correctly.
[19:00:24] <_methods> you using fadal?
[19:00:30] <Tom_itx> who?
[19:00:46] <_methods> i thought i saw someone mention fadal up there
[19:00:50] <Tom_itx> we had one
[19:00:55] <_methods> i hate those things
[19:00:56] <Tom_itx> mostly okuma and tree
[19:00:59] <_methods> stupid E
[19:01:05] <Tom_itx> yeah we ran aluminum on it
[19:01:07] <_methods> wtf just use g like everyone else
[19:01:32] <_methods> guess that's why they went out of business
[19:01:51] <_methods> hehe and their machines were slow as old people fucking
[19:01:53] <PetefromTn_> Funny I hear nothing but good things about them. Almost bought one.
[19:02:06] <Tom_itx> they were ok for light work
[19:02:24] <Tom_itx> some shops here ran steel on em all day long
[19:03:06] <Tom_itx> not a high quality machine
[19:03:16] <Tom_itx> probably comparable to haas
[19:04:21] <atom1> PetefromTn_, you gonna try that again with the tool table closed?
[19:04:24] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand why it matters what coordinate system I setup the tools in because once they are in the table I just touch off with whatever tool and the offsets are figured between the tools not hte system.
[19:04:43] <Tom_itx> you're probably right
[19:04:50] <Tom_itx> i was showing you how i did it
[19:04:52] <PetefromTn_> I mean I did it the other day and everything worked perfect.
[19:05:01] <PetefromTn_> I know that and I appreciate it.
[19:05:04] <_methods> i would only use machine coordinate for setting tools
[19:05:38] <_methods> i go from gauge line
[19:05:44] <PetefromTn_> I just do not understand what I am doing differently this time that makes the offsets wrong.
[19:05:52] <_methods> then put actual tool length in from guage
[19:06:12] <_methods> that way you can use tool presetter
[19:06:20] <PetefromTn_> How do you use gauge line?
[19:06:33] <PetefromTn_> I have a nice granite surface plate and a height gauge here.
[19:06:38] <_methods> well if you don't have a presetter
[19:06:39] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't confuse him until he's got a method working
[19:06:48] <PetefromTn_> I agree..
[19:06:48] <_methods> yeah sorry
[19:06:51] <_methods> i'll shut up
[19:07:14] <PetefromTn_> How the hell do I setup the tools USING the fixture coordinate system so they work each time I load a tool.
[19:07:44] <PetefromTn_> Tell you what Why don't I delete all the three tools in the table and I will try to setup all the tools in there.
[19:08:17] <_methods> well when you set up that way don't you have to use one tool then set all the tools off of that one?
[19:08:26] <_methods> i don't remember anymore been so long since i set up that way
[19:08:42] <PetefromTn_> thats what I don't understand.
[19:09:07] <PetefromTn_> I thought if you home the machine and bring the tool down to a fixed point and touch off it recorded the Z movement
[19:09:24] <Tom_itx> try it
[19:09:28] <Tom_itx> see what happens
[19:09:28] <PetefromTn_> Then when you do the same with the next tool they are different and the software uses that to determine offset.
[19:10:59] <PetefromTn_> The problem I was having when I did it that way was that sometimes the programs I loaded would say line whatever joint will be outside limits or something like that.
[19:11:21] <_methods> z limits?
[19:11:27] <_methods> or x y limits?
[19:11:30] <PetefromTn_> generally yeah..
[19:11:34] <PetefromTn_> joint 2
[19:11:53] <_methods> what type of machine and control?
[19:12:23] <PetefromTn_> It is a Cincinatti arrow 500 retrofit to LinuxCNC..
[19:12:28] <_methods> ah
[19:12:34] <_methods> oh my
[19:12:37] <_methods> an old arrow
[19:12:38] <PetefromTn_> Lemme try to do that here ...
[19:12:38] <_methods> wow
[19:12:48] <PetefromTn_> Its a 97..
[19:12:54] <_methods> hehe thats old
[19:13:06] <PetefromTn_> yeah well it is what I can afford.
[19:13:20] <PetefromTn_> barely..
[19:13:28] <_methods> hehhe well they will cut
[19:13:31] <_methods> it's not a bad machine
[19:13:48] <PetefromTn_> No actually if I can figure out how the hell to run the control it seems to work real nice..
[19:14:20] <PetefromTn_> Okay so I just rehomed the machine and now I am gonna delete the tools in the table..
[19:14:48] <atom1> i'd just delete the z offsets
[19:15:05] <atom1> leave the tool numbers
[19:15:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah too late LOL. Just added tool 2
[19:15:32] <PetefromTn_> which is the first tool in this program..
[19:15:40] <atom1> are you saving and refreshing the file?
[19:16:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah typically.
[19:16:53] <PetefromTn_> so now I should goto machine touch off to fixture.
[19:16:56] <PetefromTn_> Then MDI
[19:17:07] <PetefromTn_> and t2 m6 G43 H2
[19:17:14] <atom1> if that's how you want to try it yes
[19:17:34] <atom1> i think that's how jt was telling you to do it
[19:18:06] <PetefromTn_> okay but it has the G54 offset in there do I need to do anything to change that somehow?
[19:18:19] <PetefromTn_> Is that why he told me to go to G59?
[19:18:53] <atom1> i wasn't following along at that point
[19:19:08] <atom1> i think i came in late
[19:19:31] <PetefromTn_> okay.
[19:19:44] <PetefromTn_> do I need to be in a different offset tho?
[19:19:58] <atom1> personally i'd leave it in g54
[19:20:32] <PetefromTn_> okay why?
[19:20:39] <atom1> why not?
[19:20:43] <atom1> it's the default
[19:20:58] <atom1> it doesn't matter as long as they're all referenced the same
[19:21:11] <PetefromTn_> okay lemme touch off the tool then wait a sec.
[19:21:26] <atom1> i could just as easily used G55 and set all the tools
[19:23:17] <PetefromTn_> okay.
[19:23:26] <PetefromTn_> tool tip is on 123 top.
[19:23:35] <PetefromTn_> clicking touch off to tool table.
[19:23:57] <atom1> what fixture offset are you using out of curiosity?
[19:25:36] <PetefromTn_> G54 right now.
[19:25:45] <PetefromTn_> At least when I go to DRO tab that is what it shows.
[19:26:06] <PetefromTn_> Okay It seems to have NOT deleted the old tools in there and I am getting an error when I try it.
[19:27:55] <PetefromTn_> Okay now I closed the tool table and tried to reopen it and cannot like I was having trouble with before....jeez man.
[19:28:37] <atom1> are you sure you refreshed and saved it?
[19:29:08] <atom1> i would enter the tool numbers and diameters then do the z offsets
[19:29:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah. I did screw up tho and did not click Z when I hit touchoff this time so it saved a Y offset LOL.
[19:29:22] <atom1> yeah that's easy to do
[19:29:35] <PetefromTn_> Okay gonna close linuxCNC and repoen.
[19:30:50] <PetefromTn_> Okay reopened and opened the tool table and deleted the offset information but left the tools.
[19:31:22] <PetefromTn_> clicked save but cannot click reload tool table because it is greyed out for some reason. Closing the tool table now.
[19:31:50] <PetefromTn_> rehoming the machine.
[19:33:01] <PetefromTn_> okay in touch off too fixture.
[19:33:08] <PetefromTn_> MDi
[19:33:18] <PetefromTn_> t2 m6 g43 h2
[19:35:05] <PetefromTn_> tool touched off to 123 block, touch off to table.
[19:35:27] <PetefromTn_> -724.927
[19:35:39] <PetefromTn_> raising head.
[19:35:46] <PetefromTn_> gonna load next tool.
[19:36:35] <PetefromTn_> t44 m6 g43 h44
[19:36:47] <PetefromTn_> jog down to touch off.
[19:38:06] <PetefromTn_> -811.094
[19:38:39] <PetefromTn_> okay now I should be able to go to the workpiece and set G54.
[19:38:39] <atom1> is that tool longer?
[19:38:46] <PetefromTn_> no shorter..
[19:38:52] <PetefromTn_> quite a bit shorter.
[19:39:07] <atom1> carry on...
[19:39:29] <PetefromTn_> okay raised head a bit and MDI Go XO YO
[19:39:48] <atom1> are you switching in Machine menu to touchoff to workpiece now?
[19:40:24] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna select touch off to workpiece in machine menu right..'
[19:40:46] <PetefromTn_> thats a question LOL
[19:41:14] <atom1> i'm just following along
[19:41:28] <PetefromTn_> okay..
[19:42:09] <atom1> so far i think it sounds ok
[19:42:52] <PetefromTn_> okay I dunno how you guys do it but I touch off by going to MPG and selecting .001 and get close and then select .0001 and fine tune it until the tool just slips over the 123 block.
[19:43:22] <atom1> should work
[19:43:30] <atom1> some use feeler gages
[19:43:35] <atom1> jt uses a roll pin
[19:44:18] <PetefromTn_> now I am gonna select touch off to G54.
[19:44:18] <atom1> ( add the difference in )
[19:44:24] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhyfDpt4hk works well too. I got myself one of those.
[19:44:36] <jdh> gauge pin works great andless likely to damage tooling
[19:44:38] <PetefromTn_> making sure the Z is selected this time LOL.
[19:44:41] <atom1> did you switch to 'touchoff to workpiece' ?
[19:44:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah I did tom,
[19:44:55] <atom1> it should work
[19:45:40] <PetefromTn_> okay made the Z 1.0 inches for the 123 block.
[19:45:50] <PetefromTn_> DRO says 0,0,1.0
[19:46:19] <PetefromTn_> Now I am gonna raise the head and goto MDI and select tool 2 again and see where it is.
[19:47:48] <PetefromTn_> okay selected tool 2 and put it near 1" and the DRO says Z is 26.8532???
[19:48:11] <PetefromTn_> WTF?
[19:48:47] <PetefromTn_> DRO says TLO for Z is -29.2491
[19:49:49] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: What length is tool 2?
[19:50:20] <PetefromTn_> bottom of the screen says tool 2 offset -724.927
[19:50:37] <atom1> offset is measured from the top down
[19:50:53] <PetefromTn_> its an 1/8 inch drill bit in a drill chuck cat 40 holder.
[19:51:16] <PetefromTn_> This is the kind of problems I am having...
[19:51:53] <PetefromTn_> why the hell when we just touched off both tools and then touched off the last tool to the workpiece does the first tool touched off have a fucked up zero number?
[19:52:55] <PetefromTn_> yet the other day when chris helped me I got both tools loaded up easily USING the fixture offset system and ran a perfect part.?
[19:53:25] <cradek> are you switching between touch-to-fixture and touch-to-workpiece?
[19:53:27] <toastyde2th> PetefromTn_, i don't know how emc does offsetting so i can't offer specific advice
[19:53:33] <atom1> honestly, i never look at the DRO setting tools
[19:53:50] <toastyde2th> and speak of the devil, if anyone can sort it out cradek probably can
[19:53:52] <atom1> i suppose i could fire it back up and look at mine
[19:54:07] <cradek> but I thought we did this days ago :-/
[19:54:16] <atom1> cradek, yes he was switching back and forth
[19:54:18] <toastyde2th> what i was going to suggest though, is it is a very common mistake to have an offset set, or the machine in a weird mode
[19:54:40] <PetefromTn_> cradek: I touched off both tools using the fixture offset system and then switched to touch to work offset to touch off to the part.
[19:54:41] <atom1> read us the line in the mdi window
[19:54:45] <atom1> for the current settings
[19:54:45] <cradek> I don't understand why you would do that
[19:54:54] <atom1> cradek, me either
[19:54:57] <PetefromTn_> I thought you had to do that?
[19:55:19] <cradek> no, it doesn't make sense to switch them
[19:55:26] <PetefromTn_> Ya gotta understand man I am just doing what I am told and don't reallly understand this too well.
[19:55:29] <atom1> i always use touch to workpiece
[19:55:39] <atom1> i've heard others do it differently
[19:55:47] <PetefromTn_> did you not tell me to use fixture offset the other day?
[19:55:57] <atom1> G54 yes
[19:56:04] <cradek> PetefromTn_: ok that's the deal - you have to stop just doing what you're told until you understand it, because everyone has a different way of dealing with tool lengths
[19:56:04] <atom1> not from the machine menu
[19:56:17] <cradek> PetefromTn_: if you stir together everyone's advice (even those who have never used linuxcnc!!) you'll have a right mess
[19:56:19] <PetefromTn_> agreed..
[19:56:45] <atom1> cradek, i walked thru the whole process duplicating it here as we went along
[19:56:53] <PetefromTn_> cradek: honestly man you are the fellow here who has a VMC with linuxCNC and knows what is going on so I would prefer to follow your directions.
[19:57:13] <PetefromTn_> no offence to Tom.
[19:57:13] * atom1 sits back for a while
[19:57:20] <PetefromTn_> or anyone else for that matter.
[19:57:25] <atom1> whatever it takes to get it going
[19:57:39] <PetefromTn_> exactly man I just want to know the correct way to do this stuff.
[19:57:44] <cradek> have you stopped and read all the docs and really understood all the words? the two touch off modes, and how they refer to G10 L10 and G10 L11?
[19:57:49] <atom1> there is no one correct way
[19:58:07] <cradek> lemme find the link
[19:58:09] <PetefromTn_> I read and tried to understand it .
[19:58:16] <PetefromTn_> it was linked earlier.
[19:58:18] <atom1> i don't think he's using G10
[19:58:21] <PetefromTn_> I read it then
[19:58:22] <cradek> maybe you have questions about it?
[19:58:27] <cradek> I could answer those
[19:58:28] <PetefromTn_> and no I am not gonna use G10
[19:58:48] <cradek> "touch off to tool table" that you use in AXIS does exactly G10L10 or G10L11 for you
[19:58:53] <PetefromTn_> How about this... How do YOU load tools into your machine exactly?
[19:59:45] <PetefromTn_> I am quite sure I am coming off as an idiot here and believe me I am trying to understand this I NEED to understand this.
[20:00:45] <cradek> I do it just how I stepped you through it the other day, using a fixture. I happen to have a probe I call my reference tool (tool with zero length) but you don't need a probe. you do need to pick a tool (or something) that represents zero length
[20:00:46] <PetefromTn_> Is the problem that I am switching coordinate systems then? I can redo this again.
[20:00:59] <cradek> a travel indicator in a tool holder is a great thing to use
[20:01:30] <PetefromTn_> right now I am just using a 123 block on the table until I can do something nicer.
[20:01:41] <toastyde2th> emc does different things than what i am used to, but when i touch my tools off I surface the blank i'm going to use and just touch things off that
[20:02:07] <cradek> toastyde2th: you can do that, or you can use a fixture mounted to the machine instead. that's what the two modes are.
[20:02:19] <toastyde2th> either using paper if i don't care about first pass accuracy, or i sharpie a portion of it and skim the sharpie off with the tool running for more accuracy
[20:02:28] <toastyde2th> couple tenths
[20:02:41] <cradek> PetefromTn_: you have repeatable homing on your machine?
[20:02:50] <PetefromTn_> yes very,
[20:02:54] <cradek> good
[20:03:10] <cradek> do you intend to always measure tools with the 123 block sitting on or attached to the table?
[20:03:38] <cradek> I like that method -- the only time it's bad is if your whole table is covered
[20:03:55] <PetefromTn_> I intend to use the 123 block for now until I can setup a tool probe on the table in the same basic spot.
[20:04:06] <cradek> ok
[20:04:29] <cradek> is your config inches or mm?
[20:04:47] <PetefromTn_> machine is MM but the displays and DRo's read inch.
[20:04:53] <PetefromTn_> TLos are metric.
[20:05:14] <cradek> ok so it's a mm config, but you've selected view menu/display inch
[20:05:23] <PetefromTn_> yes exactly.
[20:05:30] <atom1> that seems confusing in itself
[20:05:37] <cradek> ok I was wondering why you were getting tool lengths in the hundreds - no problem
[20:05:37] <PetefromTn_> not really.
[20:05:55] <cradek> ok you need to set machine/tool touch off to fixture
[20:06:05] <PetefromTn_> we did that mostly because the screws are metric.
[20:06:07] <cradek> and always leave it if you're always using your 123 block
[20:06:21] <PetefromTn_> okay,
[20:07:11] <cradek> ok go to the gcode quickref and click on G10 L11 near the bottom
[20:07:31] <cradek> oh you're not at the machine, are you
[20:07:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am in front of the machine.
[20:07:46] <cradek> ah good
[20:07:55] <PetefromTn_> where is that I don't see it.
[20:08:13] <cradek> about 90% down
[20:08:34] <PetefromTn_> no I don't see the G code quick reference.
[20:08:44] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[20:09:00] <cradek> bookmark this! the single most important and useful docs index we have
[20:09:26] <PetefromTn_> okay I do not have internet on the machines computer but i will on my laptop
[20:09:49] <cradek> oh ok - I think you also have a full set of local docs if you're installed from packages
[20:09:59] <cradek> it's on the menu even maybe? I don't remember.
[20:10:32] <PetefromTn_> dunno Connor helped me install it all.
[20:10:46] <PetefromTn_> Don't see anything in axis that says G code quick reference tho.
[20:11:05] <cradek> it would be on your system menu, under CNC
[20:12:10] <PetefromTn_> you mean at the top appllications places system then not in linuxCNC directly.
[20:12:16] <cradek> yep
[20:12:17] <atom1> 3rd tab down is gcode reference
[20:12:52] <PetefromTn_> not on mine it isn't
[20:13:13] <cradek> hmm
[20:13:25] <cradek> you've gotta have that quickref or you're doomed
[20:13:26] <PetefromTn_> I got preferenecs, admin, help and support, about gnome and about ubuntu
[20:13:45] <atom1> Applications -> CNC -> Linuxcnc Gcode Quick Reference
[20:13:48] <PetefromTn_> then from there yo can scroll over to open subfolders.
[20:14:13] <PetefromTn_> okay there it is you said system not applications.
[20:14:33] <PetefromTn_> got it linuxCNC G code quick reference.
[20:15:04] <cradek> ok click G10 L11 "Tool offset, setting calculated from fixture"
[20:15:44] <PetefromTn_> okay it says cannot connect to internet..
[20:16:11] <PetefromTn_> like I said there is no internet on the machine.
[20:16:13] <cradek> argh, those aren't local links anymore? that sucks
[20:16:17] <cradek> I thought they were local
[20:16:21] <cradek> sorry
[20:16:28] <PetefromTn_> no prob.
[20:16:34] <cradek> I need to make a list of this stuff
[20:16:42] <atom1> more 'to do'
[20:16:52] <cradek> never ends
[20:17:03] <PetefromTn_> maybe I can download them from my laptop and upload them to the machine via flash drive.
[20:17:05] <cradek> what version are you running?
[20:17:36] <atom1> how are you on irc with no internet?
[20:17:56] <cradek> two computers obviously
[20:18:03] <PetefromTn_> I have my laptop setup here next to it.
[20:18:11] <PetefromTn_> how do I find the version?
[20:18:24] <cradek> help/about
[20:18:31] <atom1> i swapped my router out finally and had to go into settings to get it back on this pc
[20:19:00] <atom1> it wouldn't auto connect
[20:19:33] <PetefromTn_> Jeez man I sound like a moron here but I don't see help, about.
[20:19:46] <cradek> in AXIS, the help menu has "About AXIS" at the top
[20:20:15] <PetefromTn_> where the hell is the help menu LOL
[20:20:18] <atom1> far right side of the screen
[20:20:19] <atom1> top
[20:20:24] <PetefromTn_> nevermind.
[20:20:26] <atom1> all by itself
[20:21:02] <PetefromTn_> 2.6.0 pre0-3567-gcb53192
[20:21:05] <atom1> you been workin on this since 04?
[20:21:16] <PetefromTn_> helll no.
[20:21:21] <PetefromTn_> just about a year now.
[20:21:25] <atom1> not you
[20:21:47] <zeeshan> =]
[20:21:49] <atom1> why are you using 2.6?
[20:22:07] <cradek> oh ok, you've got buildbot/master packages, which I'm less surprised need work than if you had 2.5, I noted that docs problem
[20:22:13] <PetefromTn_> that is what connor helped me set it up with I thought it was the latest greatest.
[20:22:14] <cradek> let's move on!
[20:22:28] <PetefromTn_> please..
[20:22:44] <atom1> it's the bleeding edge if that's what you're after
[20:22:45] <cradek> you would ideally be using 2.5 for a non-development machine that doesn't need unreleased features
[20:23:05] <atom1> how much blood have you lost?
[20:23:06] <cradek> but instead, you're helping us test, which is also cool but a different choice
[20:23:07] <PetefromTn_> should I change it?
[20:23:22] <PetefromTn_> really did not want to be experimenting with this monster.
[20:23:37] <PetefromTn_> just was using what was recommended.
[20:23:50] <PetefromTn_> Could not have done this at all without Connors help.
[20:24:07] <atom1> the live cd install is probably more stable
[20:24:18] <PetefromTn_> that is what we used I think...
[20:24:29] <atom1> i wouldn't necessarily go through all that now though
[20:24:48] <PetefromTn_> would this explain my tool table issues?
[20:24:59] <cradek> I don't know yet
[20:25:12] <atom1> yeah blame the developers :)
[20:25:17] <cradek> to suspect a bug I'd have to be sure you are doing a consistent thing - and I'm not sure of that yet
[20:25:28] <cradek> let's set up your fixture
[20:25:45] <PetefromTn_> okay. I already have tools loaded most likely incorrectly.
[20:26:02] <Connor> One QUICK thing Pete.. Be sure to toggle to mm mode and back to inch mode.. I think a mode I made to Axis may be causing issues...
[20:26:22] <cradek> we have a chicken and egg problem - you need to locate the fixture before you can measure tools -- but you need a tool to locate the fixture
[20:26:35] <PetefromTn_> I'd like to setup the tool fixture setup location in some offset.,
[20:26:36] <cradek> Connor: displaying in inch should be fine.
[20:27:17] <cradek> g59.3 is your fixture coordinate system. we need to set that to match your fixture. if you had the G10L11 docs in front of you, they explain that
[20:27:24] <Connor> cradek: Not the issue: I made a mod to ini file.. his machine is mm by default, but he wants it to come up in inches on startup.. so.. i tried to make that happen.. but I may have missed something.
[20:27:46] <cradek> Connor: explain what you did?
[20:28:02] <PetefromTn_> BRB quickly..
[20:28:05] <Connor> It's been months.
[20:28:16] <Connor> Let me see if I have the file in email..
[20:28:29] <cradek> I don't know of any ini setting that would do that
[20:28:42] <Connor> exactly.. was a hack of sorts..
[20:28:54] <cradek> the correct fix would be to make AXIS save that view preference like it saves some others
[20:29:21] <cradek> maybe PetefromTn_ really wants an inch setup (who cares if the screws are mm)
[20:29:52] <Connor> exactly...
[20:29:58] <cradek> I'm worried about whatever your hack is, now
[20:30:21] <Connor> I'm looking through my files..
[20:30:26] <PetefromTn_> okay back now.
[20:30:27] <atom1> this is news to me as well
[20:31:08] <cradek> oh dear, cb53192 is some random version off master from 2012
[20:31:46] <PetefromTn_> This is NOT sounding good guys...
[20:31:58] <cradek> you MUST either use stable releases, or keep up to date with development
[20:32:04] <atom1> may be getting closer to your problem though
[20:32:29] <atom1> my choice would be 2.5.3
[20:32:35] <cradek> I recommend you install 2.5.3, use an inch-only config without any hacks
[20:32:36] <Connor> PetefromTn_: It's okay.. I put him on that Dev because we were going to be using the remap features.. which I think was only in 2.6 at the time..
[20:32:40] <Connor> for his ToolChanger.
[20:32:46] <atom1> unless you have some very specific reason not to
[20:33:11] <cradek> yeah, if you need remap you need master, but you need to keep up to date then
[20:33:22] <Connor> yea.. he's going to need it..
[20:33:25] <cradek> or you could wait for 2.6 release series
[20:33:29] <zeeshan> >:{
[20:33:31] <cradek> why does he need remap?
[20:33:47] <Connor> Was going to be using it for his Toolchanger..
[20:34:01] <cradek> in what way? most don't need it.
[20:34:15] <PetefromTn_> Connor was saying that it was better in some ways then classic ladder?
[20:34:26] <cradek> I'm just trying to understand what he needs to do
[20:34:33] <zeeshan> can some of you guys share a screenshot of your linuxcnc =D
[20:34:34] <atom1> the good thing is all his configs should be ok right?
[20:34:45] <atom1> sure
[20:34:46] <cradek> PetefromTn_: that's not a comparison I understand
[20:35:15] <cradek> I think the config will work, but I really would change it to inch if you intend to work mostly in inches
[20:35:16] <atom1> zeeshan, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/screenshot.png
[20:35:30] <zeeshan> that top right spindle indicator is custom?
[20:35:38] <atom1> pyvcp
[20:35:45] <Connor> I was going to use it because, A) I didn't really understand ladder very well.. B) Had examples for remap and I know python and could write all the scripts for him..
[20:35:49] <PetefromTn_> I was under the impression that classic ladder was more difficult to program and that somehow the way we went was simpler and more capable.
[20:36:05] <zeeshan> i'm a complete noob, but is it relatively easy to make your own dashboard?
[20:36:22] <cradek> well I'm not going to say not to use master, but you must keep updated if you do
[20:36:26] <atom1> from where i'm sitting, you want to get the machine up and running and you're currently not using the tool changer
[20:36:30] <zeeshan> i notice how you have to press a radio button for x and then press - / + to jog
[20:36:35] <atom1> 2.5.3 fits that bill
[20:36:43] <cradek> I have exactly no idea what worked on some random day in 2012
[20:36:50] <zeeshan> can you put + - buttons next to x , y, z respectively
[20:36:57] <atom1> zeeshan, no i have a pendant
[20:37:04] <PetefromTn_> I am GOING to use the toolchanger as soon as I can get the spindle feedback incorporated.
[20:37:07] <zeeshan> atom1: yes, but i want to know if i can modify the dashboard to do that
[20:37:10] <Connor> I'm still looking for the change I made..
[20:37:35] <atom1> zeeshan, you'd probably have to get into the axis code for that
[20:37:35] <cradek> I should be moving snow, grrr
[20:37:48] <atom1> pyvcp is the stuff on the right side
[20:37:57] <atom1> cradek, been there done that 2x today
[20:38:11] <PetefromTn_> really sorry guys.
[20:38:15] <cradek> atom1: same storm I bet...
[20:38:19] <Connor> the only one I'm finding is the full screen script.
[20:38:21] <atom1> no doubt
[20:38:31] <cradek> I don't approve of snowstorms
[20:38:40] <atom1> i think we only got 6"
[20:38:55] <cradek> we won't know 'til morning, it's still coming hard
[20:39:09] <atom1> further north is getting more i think
[20:39:11] <cradek> I have to run, guys, sorry PetefromTn_
[20:39:19] <PetefromTn_> ok
[20:39:25] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Sorry Man.. I thought I had you on the right track.
[20:39:34] <cradek> it'll only get colder
[20:39:36] <Connor> cradek can help get it figured out for sure.
[20:39:36] <cradek> bbl
[20:39:44] <atom1> PetefromTn_, i'd suggest loading 2.5.3 and saving your configs to put on it
[20:39:48] <Connor> after we figure out what I did.
[20:40:01] <PetefromTn_> its okay but I got to make these parts bad right now.
[20:40:26] <atom1> you could be up and running in no time i bet
[20:40:31] <Connor> okay.. so, try it flipping to mm in axis and back to inch and see if you get any difference in your offsets.
[20:40:37] <atom1> less than you're spending on this for srue
[20:40:39] <atom1> sure*
[20:41:04] <PetefromTn_> no they are the same.
[20:41:35] <Connor> setting your offset after flipping to mm and back ?
[20:41:48] <PetefromTn_> its soundind like I am fucked here huh.
[20:42:00] <PetefromTn_> don't understand what you mean?
[20:42:03] <atom1> it's beyond my pay grade
[20:42:07] <zeeshan> http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=238_1209_711_1182&item_id=059874
[20:42:11] <zeeshan> anyone got 20,000$?
[20:42:17] <zeeshan> DAMN!
[20:42:44] <atom1> if i did it wouldn't go to that
[20:43:00] <Connor> OKay..I'm thinking part of the system still thinks it's in mm, the other part in inch.. by toggling to mm and back to inch you get them in sync.. you then try touching off, and setting offsets.. and see if it comes out correctly.
[20:43:09] <zeeshan> atom1 same here, prolly on hookers.
[20:43:10] <zeeshan> :)
[20:43:24] <Connor> setting your tool heights etc etc.
[20:43:32] <atom1> or maybe a cnc to retrofit
[20:44:08] <zeeshan> im considering installing linuxcnc
[20:44:11] <zeeshan> for the lathe
[20:44:11] <PetefromTn_> okay so I need to redo the TLO's again after switching to MM then back to inch.
[20:44:22] <atom1> zeeshan, what are you waiting for?
[20:44:25] <Connor> I'm thinking so.. Yea..
[20:44:34] <Connor> at least try it with 2 of the tools.
[20:44:36] <zeeshan> atom1: reading the install guides and seeing how easy it is
[20:44:43] <PetefromTn_> okay standby.
[20:44:50] <Connor> *IF* it works.. then.. it's totally my fck up and I'll figure out how to fix it.
[20:44:56] <atom1> zeeshan, get the live cd and you're halfway there
[20:45:06] <Connor> atom1: Dude.. Chill..
[20:45:11] <Connor> :)
[20:45:25] <Connor> atom1: Oh wait. you was talking to zeeshan
[20:45:27] <Connor> sorry.
[20:45:33] <Connor> Had a bad Day.
[20:45:38] <zeeshan> atom1 is inspiring me to install it
[20:45:38] <atom1> apparently
[20:45:44] <zeeshan> i tried mach 3
[20:45:48] <zeeshan> but i really absolutely dislike the interface
[20:45:52] <zeeshan> it's total dog shit
[20:45:56] <Connor> zeeshan: Go for it.. it's tons better than mach3
[20:46:05] <zeeshan> waste of money it was.
[20:46:50] <zeeshan> linuxcnc site is messed up
[20:46:55] <zeeshan> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/download
[20:46:58] <zeeshan> is anyone else seeing french there?
[20:47:11] <Connor> nope. I see english
[20:47:39] <zeeshan> look at the black buttons
[20:47:40] <zeeshan> on the top
[20:47:41] <PetefromTn_> okay deleted the tools in the table, turned off linuxCNC and restarted it.
[20:47:45] <Connor> scroll down.. and hit english on the left side.. in the light grey area below where it asks for username and password
[20:47:51] <PetefromTn_> homing the machine now.
[20:47:53] <zeeshan> than kyou
[20:47:53] <zeeshan> :D
[20:48:18] <PetefromTn_> clicking view mm, then view inch..
[20:48:25] <Connor> Okay.
[20:48:48] <Connor> If this fixes it, your gonna kick my a$$ huh ?
[20:49:25] <Tom_itx> somebody should
[20:49:44] <Connor> I just tried to give him what he wanted... :(
[20:49:54] <PetefromTn_> okay just added the tools back into the table now gonna touch them both off.
[20:50:06] <zeeshan> i don't mean to sound like an asshole
[20:50:09] <Connor> Don't break any tools!
[20:50:11] <zeeshan> this is what happens with linux and me
[20:50:17] <zeeshan> instructions always assume too much info
[20:50:30] <zeeshan> i see a new installation instruction set and "linuxcnc live cds" set
[20:50:54] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc3-i386.iso
[20:50:59] <Connor> that's the ISO.
[20:51:18] <zeeshan> this includes the operating system?
[20:51:23] <Connor> Yup.
[20:51:30] <zeeshan> whats a live cd then
[20:51:33] <zeeshan> downloading that btw
[20:51:46] <zeeshan> i going to make a bootable usb
[20:51:47] <Connor> Live CD is that.. you can run it off the CD before installing it.
[20:51:54] <zeeshan> Ohh.
[20:52:15] <zeeshan> yea but the live cd unlikely has my parallel port pci card drivers setup in it
[20:52:25] <PetefromTn_> okay touched off tool 2 -742.939
[20:52:31] <PetefromTn_> switching to tool 44
[20:54:20] <PetefromTn_> touchd off tool 44 -811.107
[20:54:39] <atom1> similar to before
[20:54:42] <Connor> okay.. Have no idea if that's correct or not..
[20:55:07] <atom1> apparently in mm
[20:55:16] <PetefromTn_> okay now gonna go to workpiece and touch off tool 44 using G54 and staying in fixture offset like I was in using the tool touch off.
[20:55:37] <zeeshan> silly q
[20:55:44] <zeeshan> can you view stp files in ubuntu
[20:55:58] <zeeshan> in other words, can i get a software name
[20:55:59] <zeeshan> :)
[20:56:40] <zeeshan> i see varicad, but am wondering if there's a common standard software
[20:57:08] <atom1> http://credentiality2.blogspot.com/2011/09/viewing-step-stp-files-in-linux.html
[20:57:33] <Connor> I do that on my CAD machine.. not my CNC.
[20:57:45] <zeeshan> connor, sometimes i like to see geometry on the cnc machine
[20:58:04] <Connor> If it's already in g-code, you'll be able to see it.
[20:58:13] <zeeshan> can't trust g-code sometimes
[20:58:27] <PetefromTn_> okay tried to touch off with the last tool set on 123 block and hit touch off to G54 and the dro says 0,0,-5.2590?
[20:58:34] <zeeshan> especially when mastercam makes fancy tool paths
[20:59:08] <PetefromTn_> why won't it zero out on the workpiece?
[20:59:23] <Connor> Is that what it was doing before ?
[20:59:46] <PetefromTn_> no before it zeroed but the offsets were always WAY off...
[21:00:09] <Connor> okay.. so switch to mm and back to inch fixed some issues..
[21:00:32] <PetefromTn_> just popped up the tool table and it did not record the settings...
[21:00:36] <Connor> I defiantly need to put that back like it was..
[21:00:40] <zeeshan> 5 mins left on this download. excited!
[21:00:54] <Connor> That's odd.
[21:02:23] <PetefromTn_> just tried to manually load the tools into the tool table since I wrote the numbers on here and saved it and no change/
[21:02:23] <Connor> need to setup a way so I can remote into your machine pete.. You need to get a nice long ethernet cable and plug it in and I can walk you through some things on your router so I can remote into it.
[21:02:46] <PetefromTn_> I can do that now actually I have an usb internet dongle.
[21:02:58] <Connor> Oh. Good.
[21:03:07] <zeeshan> don't do it!
[21:03:14] <zeeshan> he'll make a bad image in your table
[21:03:31] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[21:03:35] <atom1> last time i let someone do that to my router they screwed me over
[21:03:42] <zeeshan> atom1 lol
[21:03:44] <zeeshan> can't blame em
[21:03:52] <zeeshan> remoting to a cnc machine would be awesome
[21:03:54] <Connor> Well.. I've been over to his house...
[21:03:59] <zeeshan> connor im kidding :)
[21:04:01] <Connor> and he could find mine..
[21:04:03] <atom1> well he was instrumental in helping me find it
[21:04:18] <PetefromTn_> do you want me to do it?
[21:04:26] <atom1> and i'm happy with it now
[21:04:58] <atom1> guess i'll bow out for a while
[21:38:46] <Connor> http://blog.ferhatelmas.com/2012/01/netgear-n300-wna3100-on-ubuntu-lucid.html
[21:39:04] <PetefromTn> ..
[21:42:34] <zeeshan> its installed
[21:42:46] <zeeshan> trying to get my wireless pci card installed ;/
[21:43:59] <jdh> it's pretty easy. It plugs right into the slot on the board.
[21:44:08] <zeeshan> yea the software part jerk
[21:44:08] <zeeshan> :D
[21:44:24] <zeeshan> brb
[21:44:32] <jdh> I have two... they just worked.
[21:44:39] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: What wireless chipset?
[21:53:14] <eric_unterhausen> my pci wireless card just worked
[21:53:32] <eric_unterhausen> I pulled it when I was having trouble with the wired interface
[21:54:06] <zeeshan> realtek
[21:54:08] <zeeshan> its installed
[21:54:09] <zeeshan> WTF
[21:54:13] <zeeshan> ubuntu froze!
[21:54:17] <zeeshan> i was installing xchat
[21:54:26] <zeeshan> i can move my mouse around, but cant click on anything
[21:55:58] <zeeshan> can't ctrl alt f1 and f7 back in
[21:55:59] <zeeshan> lol
[21:56:02] <zeeshan> alt tab doesnt work either
[21:56:04] <zeeshan> interesting.
[21:58:24] <zeeshan_> :D
[21:59:05] <toastyde2th> ssh in and kill xorg
[21:59:12] <toastyde2th> or mir or whatever the fuck it is they're using now
[21:59:15] <toastyde2th> like jackasses
[21:59:53] <toastyde2th> oh, i thought this was a different channel
[21:59:56] <toastyde2th> still, the point holds
[22:04:23] <zee_CNC> i did lspci
[22:04:27] <zee_CNC> 03:00.0 Parallel controller: NetMos Technology PCI 9865 Multi-I/O Controller
[22:04:27] <zee_CNC> 03:00.2 Parallel controller: NetMos Technology PCI 9865 Multi-I/O Controller
[22:04:36] <zee_CNC> ^ is that evidence my pci parallel port card is automatically configured? :)
[22:04:44] <jdh> yes
[22:05:02] <jdh> -vv will give you the address
[22:06:01] <zee_CNC> man this graphics card on this machine ran like ass in windows
[22:06:06] <zee_CNC> its so much smoother in linux.
[22:07:14] <zee_CNC> Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [size=8]
[22:07:15] <zee_CNC> Region 1: I/O ports at e880 [size=8]
[22:09:45] <zee_CNC> jdh hook me up with your step time and space values
[22:09:45] <zee_CNC> ;D
[22:09:53] <jdh> what drivers
[22:10:11] <zee_CNC> kl8070d
[22:10:22] <zee_CNC> i think i saw it in the pdf
[22:10:41] <jdh> it's in there
[22:11:03] <zee_CNC> im assuming the first step to linuxcnc is running stepconf? :)
[22:11:21] <jdh> it's an ok way to get an initial config
[22:12:02] <zee_CNC> For reliable response, pulse width should be
[22:12:02] <zee_CNC> longer than 2.5μ
[22:12:19] <zee_CNC> For reliable motion response, DIR
[22:12:20] <zee_CNC> signal should be ahead of PUL signal by 5μs at least
[22:19:14] <zee_CNC> what should be my base period maximum jitter
[22:19:26] <zee_CNC> i've been running that hal latency test thing
[22:19:36] <zee_CNC> for servo thread it says max jitter: 1047469
[22:19:46] <zee_CNC> for base thread it says max jitter: 546303
[22:19:58] <eric_unterhausen> probably a video driver
[22:20:00] <zee_CNC> the maximum number i can enter is 50,000
[22:20:08] <zee_CNC> yea i installed the nvidia driver
[22:20:14] <zee_CNC> it seems to be more laggy after that
[22:20:19] <eric_unterhausen> you are going to have to go to vesa
[22:20:26] <zee_CNC> okay let me uninstall it
[22:21:45] <zee_CNC> need to reboot
[22:23:13] <zee_CNC> okay now its peaking at 51324 ns
[22:23:20] <zee_CNC> but the max number i can enter is 50,000 ;[
[22:23:27] <zee_CNC> it only goes that high when i open firefox
[22:23:35] <jdh> don't open firefox.
[22:23:41] <zee_CNC> otherwise its hanging less than 30000 ns
[22:23:48] <zee_CNC> 24000 ns avg
[22:23:48] <jdh> still not so great
[22:23:52] <eric_unterhausen> that's too slow for steppers
[22:24:06] <eric_unterhausen> go through the latency worksheet
[22:24:08] <zee_CNC> whats causing that?
[22:24:17] <eric_unterhausen> usb, wireless, smi?
[22:24:25] <zee_CNC> wireless is pci
[22:24:38] <eric_unterhausen> could be wireless
[22:24:40] <zee_CNC> hd is a ssd
[22:24:48] <zee_CNC> nooo don't say that :(
[22:24:50] <jdh> get rid of the wifi card
[22:24:50] <eric_unterhausen> hd never causes
[22:25:11] <zee_CNC> what exactly is jitter
[22:25:17] <zee_CNC> and why was it not effecting me in mach3
[22:25:26] <eric_unterhausen> it was, you couldn't tell
[22:25:27] <jdh> mach3 isn't real time
[22:27:00] <eric_unterhausen> step/dir is fairly immune to jitter
[22:27:05] <eric_unterhausen> except for performance
[22:27:06] <zee_CNC> it says on the wiki document
[22:27:17] <eric_unterhausen> I have one of these, better than wireless http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CDSVFA/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[22:27:19] <zee_CNC> that 30-50microsec is okay
[22:27:24] <zee_CNC> but my maximum step rate might be effected
[22:27:47] <eric_unterhausen> you got over 50000 without stress testing
[22:28:06] <jdh> I drilled some holes and ran cat5
[22:28:06] <zee_CNC> no
[22:28:09] <zee_CNC> i was stress testing!
[22:28:16] <zee_CNC> firefox = stress testing
[22:28:27] <eric_unterhausen> firefox doesn't do anything
[22:28:28] <zee_CNC> it's sitting at 25000 max without me opening firefox
[22:28:36] <zee_CNC> firefox makes it jump to 55000
[22:28:40] <zee_CNC> especially if i go to youtube.com
[22:28:52] <jdh> is it FF doing it, or the wifi access
[22:28:55] <eric_unterhausen> cough network cough
[22:28:57] <zee_CNC> if i shake xchat around
[22:29:06] <zee_CNC> it doesnt make it jump past 25000
[22:29:18] <jdh> try a few xeyes
[22:29:46] <zee_CNC> lemme dl
[22:29:59] <jdh> use glxgears
[22:30:21] <zee_CNC> btw
[22:30:22] <eric_unterhausen> it's probably just non-realtime network interrupts
[22:30:26] <zee_CNC> i'm using a pci graphics card
[22:30:31] <zee_CNC> ;p
[22:30:49] <eric_unterhausen> huh, maybe nothing you can do :)
[22:30:55] <eric_unterhausen> what is system?
[22:31:04] <zee_CNC> mobo is a asus p5q cpu is e8500
[22:32:16] <zee_CNC> while running glxgears
[22:32:31] <zee_CNC> peak number is 44500
[22:32:45] <zee_CNC> it's definitely my video card
[22:32:47] <zee_CNC> fak.
[22:32:48] <eric_unterhausen> I would try agp graphics
[22:32:57] <zee_CNC> okay i'll pick a cheap one up tommorrow
[22:33:04] <eric_unterhausen> can you still do that?
[22:33:11] <zee_CNC> do what
[22:33:20] <eric_unterhausen> buy agp
[22:33:20] <FinboySlick> find agp video cards ;)
[22:33:55] <zee_CNC> this thing doesnt have agp
[22:34:22] <eric_unterhausen> pcie?
[22:34:23] <zee_CNC> pci-e 2.0 slot
[22:34:24] <zee_CNC> yea
[22:34:31] <eric_unterhausen> well, there you go
[22:34:52] <zee_CNC> i really don't want to get rid of my pci wireless card
[22:35:00] <zee_CNC> i don't want to run network cables in the garage :)
[22:35:31] <eric_unterhausen> that's why I suggested a power line network
[22:35:52] <eric_unterhausen> yes, you are less of a man for using power line
[22:35:59] <eric_unterhausen> but then again, it's really fast
[22:36:25] <zee_CNC> never!
[22:36:39] <eric_unterhausen> your friends will forget they laughed at you
[22:36:43] <zee_CNC> do i want "include halui user interface component"
[22:37:02] <eric_unterhausen> just say yes inless it causes an error
[22:43:44] <eric_unterhausen> wonder how many people can actually use 25mpixels at 70fps
[22:45:07] <zee_CNC> comp froze again
[22:45:14] <zee_CNC> linux isn't liking one of my pci cards.
[22:45:27] <eric_unterhausen> I am but a simple ironworker, but I'm thinking that's not a good thing
[22:45:31] <eric_unterhausen> which version of linux
[22:45:41] <zee_CNC> whatever came in that iso
[22:45:45] <zee_CNC> in the live cd
[22:45:53] <eric_unterhausen> I had problems with the live cd and my wireless card
[22:46:02] <zee_CNC> Linux zeeshan-cnc 2.6.32-122-rtai #rtai SMP Tue Jul 27 12:44:07 CDT 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
[22:46:06] <eric_unterhausen> not that I have anything against your wireless card or anything
[22:46:16] <zee_CNC> well thats easy to check
[22:46:20] <zee_CNC> i can use ethernet temporarily
[22:46:25] <zee_CNC> and remove the card from the computer
[22:46:47] <eric_unterhausen> I double-dare you
[22:47:08] <zee_CNC> after i jog the motor i will
[22:47:15] <eric_unterhausen> boom
[22:47:18] <zee_CNC> so i've configured everything
[22:47:30] <zee_CNC> x and z are grayed out in the software
[22:47:46] <zee_CNC> machine power on!
[22:48:04] <zee_CNC> sweet, nothing happens when i hit + or -
[22:48:04] <zee_CNC> haha
[22:50:13] <zee_CNC> Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [size=8]
[22:50:14] <zee_CNC> Region 1: I/O ports at e880 [size=8]
[22:50:33] <zee_CNC> i should have entered 0xec00 for parallel port 1 and 0xe880 for parallel port 2 right?
[22:55:15] <eric_unterhausen> it is unlikely to hurt if you swap
[22:55:54] <zee_CNC> i already tried swapping the parallel port addresses
[22:55:56] <zee_CNC> that didn't help
[22:56:07] <zee_CNC> i'm trying to jog within stepconf
[22:59:21] <eric_unterhausen> what did you tell mach?
[23:00:37] <zee_CNC> in mach all i did was setup the parallel port
[23:00:47] <zee_CNC> go to motor tuning and put in the steps
[23:00:54] <zee_CNC> and assign the pin outputs for step and dir
[23:00:58] <zee_CNC> and it worked
[23:06:05] <zee_CNC> i kinda wish i didn't overwrite my windows install
[23:06:06] <zee_CNC> ;[
[23:07:06] <zee_CNC> i'm gonna disconnect the parallel port from the bob
[23:07:12] <zee_CNC> and see if the dir is even getting a signal with a multimeter
[23:08:27] <eric_unterhausen> what does setup the parallel port mean, it autodetected?
[23:08:38] <zee_CNC> when i installed the software
[23:08:45] <zee_CNC> linuxcnc w/ ubuntu os
[23:08:55] <zee_CNC> the parallel ports showed up automatically. i didnt have to install drivers
[23:14:37] <zee_CNC> okay i know something is up for sure.
[23:14:44] <zee_CNC> when i jog my axis in any direction
[23:14:53] <zee_CNC> the direction pin on the bob doesn't go from high to low or low to high
[23:14:59] <zee_CNC> so its not getting a signal
[23:21:04] <zee_CNC> setp parport.0.pin-02-out 1
[23:21:06] <zee_CNC> whoops