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[02:06:15] <Deejay> moin
[04:05:48] <MrSunshine> my fears was true ... 0.08mm runout on the taper in the spindle :/
[04:05:51] <MrSunshine> from top to bottom
[04:06:05] <MrSunshine> that is, both in the top and the bottom of the taper :P
[04:09:50] <MrSunshine> so now, how to build a jig for the lathe to put the thing in to grind it ... was thinking to make a plate that goes over the ways like the tailstock does, then from that build two plates upwards so that i can bore it in the lathe so it will be dead true to center of my lathe, these ofc are of the kind that can clamp down on something, then just mount the spindle in it and it should be dead true to the ways of the
[04:09:50] <MrSunshine> lathe, but this will be the outer shell of the spindle and no one knows how true that is to the actual spindle shaft :/
[04:11:10] <MrSunshine> the water cooled one looks like they are turned out of a solid piece ? but these air cooled one is an aluminium extrusion pressed into a pipe ...
[05:29:19] <jthornton> at least I see I can get parts for the JD350B
[05:43:49] <MrSunshine> well fuck, i dont even have a live center for the lathe that is any good :/
[05:50:01] <jthornton> improvise - adapt - overcome
[05:55:27] <MrSunshine> got a dead center, but when line boring in a lathe the boring bar in itself isnt so important as the two centers being centered right ?
[05:55:50] <MrSunshine> so i could just chuck a bar in the 3 jaw chuck and go to town realy and have a dead center hole? =)
[05:56:25] <MrSunshine> ahh but no ... how to move the frekkin thing so i actualy do a bore of something that is stuck to the lathe bed :P
[05:57:09] <jthornton> I'm just not seeing what your seeing, got a photo?
[05:58:28] <MrSunshine> well i need to make a mount to mount my spindle motor on the lathe so that its dead straight with the ways, so i can use the compound to regrind the internal taper of the spindle =)
[05:58:47] <MrSunshine> the straight is more important then the dead center realy
[05:59:04] <MrSunshine> but dead center is nice so i can just make a mount for the dremel as a toolpost grinder
[06:00:10] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9YHJhxQ64k at 4:07 or so
[06:00:17] <MrSunshine> dont know how to set the marker so it starts there
[06:00:25] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t9YHJhxQ64k#t=247
[06:00:26] <MrSunshine> ahh
[06:01:08] <jthornton> that you?
[06:01:22] <MrSunshine> similiar to get the router spindle on dead center in the lathe, then mount a plate to the compound rest and poke a hole for the dremel in it, also putting it in dead center with the lathe and then grind away
[06:01:34] <MrSunshine> jthornton, no just searching around for videos of line boring :P
[06:04:13] <MrSunshine> so, im working on being able to regrind my router spindle in the lathe, not the lathe spindle =)
[06:07:54] <jthornton> can you mount the router spindle at the correct angle and turn it on and cut it?
[06:11:40] <archivist_herron> dremel makes a shite toolpost grinder
[06:12:36] <archivist_herron> the internal rubber mount of the dremel spindle bearing is the problem
[06:17:18] <archivist_herron> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pump+ruston
[06:20:06] <jthornton> I see you don't want the rocks to fall on your ways
[06:20:37] <jthornton> is the pump spinning at a low rpm as you grind?
[06:20:55] <archivist_herron> yes it was
[06:21:31] <archivist_herron> you can see I changed dremels too trying to get a better job
[06:22:24] <archivist_herron> centre height mattered less as I wanted parallel not taper
[06:23:51] <archivist_herron> the noise it makes is a clue to the varying cut due to the vibration
[06:26:27] <jthornton> could you use something like this to make a fairly good spindle?
http://garageshopconfessions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/ER16colletchuck.jpg
[06:40:39] <archivist_herron> yes I think so
[06:41:11] <archivist_herron> I use one of those on my "cutter grinder"
[06:42:30] <archivist_herron> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_11_01_Tool_grinder/IMG_1390.JPG
[06:43:19] <jthornton> nice!
[06:43:20] <archivist_herron> all too flexible and not rigid enough
[06:45:03] <archivist_herron> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_11_01_Tool_grinder/IMG_1387.JPG
[06:45:28] <archivist_herron> comparator stand re used
[06:46:42] <jthornton> I like to get more life from things like that
[06:47:13] <jthornton> I still want to build the drill bit sharpener that was on the mailing list a while back
[07:07:49] <Tom_itx> 8° F
[07:09:46] <Tom_itx> you want accuracy with a dremel?
[07:09:49] <Tom_itx> please....
[07:11:04] <eric_unterhausen> I have some grinders that would hold pretty good accuracy if I could figure out how to keep them from blowing up
[07:14:30] <jthornton> come on I can hit a 4x8 sheet of osb with a dremel shooting it out of my cannon
[07:15:38] <Tom_itx> i was almost with him until he said that
[07:15:49] <Tom_itx> then he lost me
[07:16:06] <eric_unterhausen> I guess I need a chiller
[07:18:05] <PetefromTn> jthornton: huh? What the hell are we talking about now LOL
[07:18:15] <eric_unterhausen> I have some moore grinders
[07:18:23] <Tom_itx> fixing a .08mm runout
[07:18:31] <jthornton> lol
[07:18:39] <Tom_itx> with a dremel
[07:18:40] <Tom_itx> and a cannon
[07:18:52] <eric_unterhausen> 20k 40k 80k rpm
[07:18:59] <eric_unterhausen> suitable sub for a dremel
[07:19:11] <PetefromTn> shooting what out of your cannon?
[07:19:28] <eric_unterhausen> I was reading the instructions for my cannon
[07:19:35] <jthornton> the dremel
[07:19:37] <PetefromTn> I got a homebuilt black powder cannon.
[07:19:38] <eric_unterhausen> it says that it doesn't go boom if you try to shoot anything
[07:20:13] <PetefromTn> Damn it is getting cold here how cold is it where you guys are?
[07:20:17] <eric_unterhausen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-Bang_Cannon
[07:20:21] <Tom_itx> 8° F
[07:20:46] <Tom_itx> and windy
[07:20:56] <Tom_itx> so it feels rather brutal
[07:21:04] <eric_unterhausen> we have 7f and calm
[07:21:13] <eric_unterhausen> but nearby it's as low as -4
[07:21:21] <PetefromTn> yeah it is in the low teen here this morning but damn with the wind it seems like it is 20 below..
[07:21:27] <jthornton> it was 25f when I woke up it's 19f now
[07:21:47] <jthornton> now they say a high of 20f
[07:21:51] <PetefromTn> damn -4 sounds like LOTS of fun.
[07:22:15] <jthornton> PetefromTn,
http://www.gnipsel.com/cannon/cannon.xhtml
[07:22:24] <eric_unterhausen> fortunately, there is a row of mountains blocking us from that
[07:22:50] <eric_unterhausen> see, that cannon looks dangerous
[07:23:05] <PetefromTn> Damn that is a sweet cannon. Nice build man. Mine is a table top model that is more about bang than looks.
[07:23:16] <jthornton> not for professional rednecks
[07:23:28] <jthornton> we had fun building them
[07:23:45] <PetefromTn> Oh boy now we got techie rednecks in here... what has the world come to.
[07:23:56] <eric_unterhausen> I have to wait for a suitable time to shoot my cannon, I didn't realize I got the cabide paste with it
[07:24:39] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn the world wouldn't make it without em
[07:24:46] <eric_unterhausen> of course, since I'm deaf in my one ear already, it isn't as much fun with hearing protection
[07:25:08] <PetefromTn> I usually pack it full of about 75 grains of black powder and stuff it with toilet paper wadding for the fourth of july and new years day.
[07:26:12] <eric_unterhausen> beaglebone blacks are drying up
[07:26:21] <eric_unterhausen> lazy engineers designed them into products
[07:26:29] <PetefromTn> I remember one time I took it out front and lit it off making a HUGE bang that rattled the windows and my next door neighbor's wife was kneeling in her garden and I did not see her there and it scared the crap out of her LOL.... She was NOT amused.
[07:26:48] <eric_unterhausen> neighbors are funny like that
[07:27:25] <PetefromTn> yeah I had a chat with her husband when he got home and he thought it was funny.... she apparently did not even after laughing about it.
[07:28:52] <PetefromTn> You must need some SERIOUS room to light off that monster cannon jt..
[07:31:25] <jthornton> yea, we shoot them in my neighbors back yard as he has 60 acres to play in
[07:31:50] <jthornton> a couple of ounces of F will send a golf ball to the next county
[07:31:53] <Jymmm> PetefromTn:
http://v6.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=2zhk1h0
[07:33:08] <PetefromTn> NICE!! Is that jt in the video?
[07:33:18] <Jymmm> no
[07:34:14] <PetefromTn> Interesting how it is much more of a BOOM than a Bang like mine.... I am sure you could hear that like 12 miles away.
[07:34:51] <jthornton> yea loud for sure
[07:37:21] <jthornton> in the volley I'm taking the video and my cannon is the nearest one to me
[07:37:52] <jthornton> Ray (green shirt) puts too much powder in his as you see how far it recoils back
[07:38:09] <PetefromTn> Gotta spray some more laka this AM. Finishing up these dual bi-fold pocket doors.
[07:40:06] <PetefromTn> Oooh poor Justin Beiber was busted drag racing his lamborghini in Miami Beach while itoxicated.
[07:41:18] <PetefromTn> intoxicated
[07:45:20] <PetefromTn> Just thinking here.....can you really put TOO much powder in a cannon LOL?
[07:45:44] <Jymmm> Yep
[07:53:52] <archivist> I did some clock repair work at the nearest gun proof house, yes too much powder breaks things
[07:54:26] <archivist> they had a cannon there that had failed
[07:55:03] <skunkworks> -7f here
[07:55:19] <Jymmm> skunkworks: =(
[07:58:34] <Jymmm> Cold here too at 40F/4C
[07:59:19] <Jymmm> skunkworks: do you use firewood for heating?
[07:59:42] <skunkworks> parents do.. I do not..
[08:00:09] <skunkworks> they have a large outside wood furnace that heats the house and the shop
[08:00:25] <Jymmm> what about pellets?
[08:00:44] <skunkworks> seems like a scam.. :)
[08:01:01] <Jymmm> lol, how so?
[08:01:52] <skunkworks> a way to make it so you have to buy 'fuel' from someone.. they are very popular around here..
[08:02:14] <Jymmm> There are pellet making machines
[08:03:56] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg7ALbtoYTQ
[08:23:11] <MrSunshine> archivist_herron, i do not have anything better to do it with :/
[08:23:46] <MrSunshine> i could borrow a "top grinder" or what its called but already done that once and it wasnt realy in shape when i returned it ... :P
[08:23:47] <archivist> you are likely to make it worse with a dremel
[08:24:21] <MrSunshine> ahh so borrowing stuff it is then :P
[08:24:40] <MrSunshine> first off gonna see if my mounting will work out or not :P
[08:24:43] <archivist> or make something,
[08:25:07] <MrSunshine> working on the mounting thing now, will be mounted to the bed just like the tailstock is then having uprights to clamp the spindle motor
[08:25:15] <archivist> did you see <jthornton> could you use something like this to make a fairly good spindle?
http://garageshopconfessions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/ER16colletchuck.jpg
[08:26:00] <MrSunshine> yes sure one could but its weeks away if i order it and i need to build a even more stuff =)
[08:26:22] <MrSunshine> http://www.rentex.devello.se/webbshop/byggmaskiner/slip--borrmaskiner/medium/toppslip-470.jpg i can borrow one of those from a friend
[08:27:50] <archivist> metabo is ok till someone borrows it and breaks it
[08:28:12] * archivist laments his pneumatic hammer drill
[08:28:36] <eric_unterhausen> I should measure the runout on my toolpost grinder
[08:28:52] <eric_unterhausen> of course, the spindle on my lathe probably comes first
[08:29:46] <archivist> first, why have you got runout
[08:30:05] <eric_unterhausen> every bearing has runout
[08:30:16] <archivist> methinks past accident and bent spindle
[08:30:23] <MrSunshine> does it mater if the toolpost grinder has runout? =)
[08:30:31] <eric_unterhausen> since I make money off of that fact, it's my story and I'm sticking with it
[08:32:06] <eric_unterhausen> my lathe might need new bearings, hope not though
[08:32:15] <archivist> are you really measuring the spindle or are you measuring variation in the clearance in the bearings
[08:32:33] <archivist> or flexibility of the machine
[08:32:45] <archivist> or the saddle rotating
[08:33:42] <archivist> lots of error sources to fix and remove before you condemn a part
[08:35:43] <Jymmm> I like it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYUfcxnDSWg
[08:35:54] <Jymmm> one hour long
[10:42:46] <Jeebiss> Hey guys, I had a quick question
[10:43:20] <Jeebiss> I just bought a pallet full of desktop laser printers, would the motors and carrige assemblies from them be a sufficient base for a cnc machine?
[10:44:58] <archivist> we cannot see the guts of said items :)
[10:46:08] <mozmck> Any that I've taken apart have not had any kind of normal xy movement.
[10:46:30] <cradek> yeah, it depends what you want the machine to do, how creative and resourceful you are, and what's in the printers
[10:46:44] <mozmck> The drum does the printing and I'm not exactly sure how that works, and the rest of it just feeds paper through.
[10:46:52] <skunkworks> so we can confidently say 'maybe'
[10:46:55] <cradek> few parts in the printers will be helpful except motors, if there are any of suitable types
[10:47:14] <mozmck> The shafts and motors though could be useful for a small machine I would think.
[10:47:24] <cradek> yes, I am confident the answer is maybe
[10:47:58] <cradek> old inkjets (like the very original hp deskjet, and designjet type plotters) had little dc servos with encoders
[10:47:59] <mozmck> I have a number of nice stainless steel shafts about 12" long out of some HP 4si printers - fairly stout.
[10:48:16] <CaptHindsight> yes, no, maybe so
[10:48:29] <archivist> some shafts are plain and useful some have grooves and less useful
[10:49:14] <archivist> and at least two of us here have worked with printers
[10:50:32] <archivist> older printers had chunkier motors
[10:51:37] <mozmck> those HP 4si weigh about 120 lbs :) They have some pretty good motors if I remember correctly.
[10:52:01] <CaptHindsight> the wide format (>24") inkjets have usable parts
[10:54:29] <cradek> we have a laserjet 5si still in daily use here at work, about 20 years old - was our primary printer for quite a while
[10:54:53] <archivist> but to maximise profit they use the cheapest they can get away with
[10:55:05] <cradek> someday I'll find one for home - would be nice to have 11x17
[10:55:27] <Jeebiss> i also bought 4 42' designjet plotters
[10:55:38] <Jeebiss> but ill need to resell those, instead of disassembling them lol
[10:56:00] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: Maybe I should take apart my boss's designjet and check it out. It will handle paper or vinyl at least 48" wide
[10:56:47] <cradek> designjets from that era have all failed - the teeth on the belts rot and come apart
[10:56:56] <cradek> they do have dc servos
[10:57:44] <mozmck> I used a 4si here at home for years, and when it needed too much work I bought a brother 5250DN that has actually done quite well for years now.
[10:58:14] <archivist> I have a couple of the motors from the HP plotter
[10:58:49] <cradek> mozmck: I don't think I've ever bought a new printer for myself - I really like retired office-quality stuff
[10:59:32] <mozmck> That was my first, and I got it for under $200 and it has lasted for 6 or 7 years now I think.
[11:00:03] <archivist> I remember £1800 ish for a Canon
[11:00:11] <mozmck> toner costs about $20 for ~8000 pages (not brother brand)
[11:00:19] <cradek> I can't believe the scammy home inkjet printer market
[11:00:34] <cradek> so many people are just suckers
[11:00:47] <archivist> it is the Gillette razor scam
[11:00:52] <CaptHindsight> wide format is even a bigger scam, the inkjet business in general is run like a cartel
[11:00:57] <mozmck> yes, that's why I bought a laser :) I was looking for a good retired office printer but they cost more than I bought that new for.
[11:01:33] <mozmck> And most of them start having paper feed issues after lots of use.
[11:01:33] <cradek> I'm glad I don't "need" color
[11:02:09] <cradek> if I want to print a few photos I head to walgreens
[11:02:09] <mozmck> I got full duplex and I think about 30 pages per minute max - it's *way* faster than the HP 4si was.
[11:02:15] <mozmck> same here.
[11:02:35] <cradek> let them maintain that stuff!
[11:03:15] <CaptHindsight> aqueous inkjet ink costs only a few $ per liter to make, it actually cheaper than toner
[11:03:19] <mozmck> We got a wide format inkjet at work so we could print with UV safe inks on vinyl for labels.
[11:04:00] <cradek> heh when I need labels I use my selectric
[11:04:23] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: does it print a UV cured ink or?
[11:04:27] <skunkworks> I work for a printing company... ;)
[11:04:27] <mozmck> These are labels that go on aluminum plates, plastic boxes etc.
[11:04:56] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: no, I think they are just UV resistant so they don't fade in the light.
[11:11:39] <CaptHindsight> even the rollers in a laser printer are tiny DC motors geared down
[11:19:49] <CaptHindsight> the scanning mirror and laser mechanism could be used with IR curable photopolymers or if you swap the IR for a bluray laser, violet curables
[11:21:09] <CaptHindsight> Jeebiss: they are probably more useful repurposed for photopolymer printing
[11:22:02] <Jeebiss> Interesting, Ill look into that
[11:22:09] <Jeebiss> I need something to abuse these things with
[11:23:47] <CaptHindsight> unless they are LED laser printers with a bar of IR led lasers
[11:24:41] <archivist> with a GRIN lens
[11:25:49] <archivist> we explored in an OKI
[11:26:44] <CaptHindsight> it's probably beyond DIY but if you place a membrane over the IR led's with a low boiling point fluid they make an actuator very similar to piezo inkjet
[11:28:02] <archivist> there was a rolled paper technology for colour printing, not seen in the wild for a long time though
[11:28:28] <archivist> Brother made a printer, Meade owned the technology
[11:29:47] <CaptHindsight> how is rolling involved?
[11:29:49] <archivist> blue LED were in their infancy at the time so we failed to get an LED colour printer working well enough
[11:30:16] <archivist> it crushed the bubbles of ink in the paper
[11:30:41] <archivist> the bubble case was exposed to harden
[11:31:38] <archivist> ALPS did a low cost version using a ball bearing to do the crushing
[11:32:30] <CaptHindsight> the color is in the paper stuff
[11:33:29] <archivist> A4 paper needed 2 tons
[11:34:33] <archivist> a crease in the paper grooved my prototype roller
[11:35:11] <CaptHindsight> thermal auto chrome
[11:37:15] <CaptHindsight> archivist: would it press the entire page at one time?
[11:38:30] <archivist> no, rolled it so the pressure was over a smaller area, would need hundred/thousands of tons for whole page
[11:40:03] <archivist> the brother used a small roller with lots of springs and backing rollers to keep it straight and get a higher pressure/area for a little less force
[11:56:49] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[11:56:56] <kengu> hello
[11:57:00] <heathmanc> what is the best version of xilinx ise to build firmwares?
[11:57:10] <heathmanc> most compatible i should say
[11:58:02] <CaptHindsight> archivist: recall what the fluid was used for color (water/solvent/gel/or?) and how it was encapsulated
[11:58:15] <IchGuckLive> Einar_: how is it
[11:59:06] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: ISE 14.3
[11:59:22] <heathmanc> is this something a computer literate person can do?
[11:59:30] <heathmanc> i got a couple configs I need
[12:00:05] <CaptHindsight> it's like learning a new language and IDE
[12:00:05] <heathmanc> i guess what I mean is, will it make sense when a person tries to use it
[12:01:04] <heathmanc> well, since the last language I learned was quick basic, this should be interesting
[12:01:39] <pcw_home> tom_itx has a very nice tutorial:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_body.html
[12:01:45] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: if you're just using files from Mesa then it's mostly learning to use the IDE
[12:01:52] <heathmanc> ok
[12:02:29] <archivist> CaptHindsight, was all under patents and they never told us
[12:02:55] <CaptHindsight> archivist: sounds like printing
[12:03:12] <heathmanc> a 6gb download... seems ludicrous
[12:03:27] <archivist> and was a long time ago, I do remember reading what docs I could
[12:04:35] <archivist> the bubbles were differing sizes to get some gamma and range in bursting strength
[12:04:55] <CaptHindsight> it's interesting since it was probably white-ish paper and when the bubbles were broken they developed color, maybe when exposed to oxygen
[12:05:52] <archivist> we never got a good image off the paper
[12:06:46] <CaptHindsight> new mesa boards showed up!
[12:08:04] <archivist> CaptHindsight, google Cycolor
[12:08:28] <archivist> http://www.answers.com/topic/cycolor
[12:08:42] <CaptHindsight> I went to Microcenter the other day. Not 1 single printer cable in stock
[12:09:33] <heathmanc> which boards?
[12:10:44] <CaptHindsight> PCIe fpga and stepper 6i25 and 7i76
[12:11:40] <heathmanc> I received my 4i65 yesterday
[12:11:54] <heathmanc> ordered a 7i33 today
[12:12:00] <heathmanc> collecting too much of this crap
[12:12:07] <CaptHindsight> not even a header to parallel adapter
[12:12:27] <CaptHindsight> I have to dig through some old boxes
[12:12:33] <pcw_home> you should always order the kit with a 5I25s/6I25s (we throw the cable in free)
[12:12:44] <CaptHindsight> yeah, got the kit
[12:13:02] <CaptHindsight> I just used to have so much of this lying around
[12:13:25] <CaptHindsight> but I only need a 6" cable not 6'
[12:13:39] <pcw_home> IDC in that case
[12:14:48] <CaptHindsight> no longer stocked at Microcenter
[12:15:45] <pcw_home> You wont find a short IEEE cable (well maybe 3')
[12:15:46] <pcw_home> so you have to make one with flat cable
[12:16:08] <CaptHindsight> I have some hiding in old boxes here
[12:17:06] <CaptHindsight> archivist: CYCOLOR film contained billions of light-sensitive microcapsules, called "cyliths." Resembling gel-caps
[12:18:51] <CaptHindsight> interesting that they had a range of color index by using different strength capsules
[12:19:26] <archivist> and we were working with it before they sold so 20 years ago :)
[12:19:53] <CaptHindsight> https://www.zink.com/ makes something similar now
[12:20:41] <CaptHindsight> it's interesting since I was working on microencapsulation of solvents like acetone and lacquer thinner
[12:21:06] <CaptHindsight> sort of a wet nap with solvent but stays dry until it's pressed
[12:23:37] <CaptHindsight> ZINK uses thermal phase change, nevermind
[12:37:51] <skunkworks> pcw_home, what are people using for remote i/o??
[12:38:02] <skunkworks> (I meant just 1 qestion mark)
[12:38:45] <skunkworks> 7i64?
[12:38:56] <skunkworks> what was andy playing with?
[12:38:58] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[12:44:29] <IchGuckLive> lots more routers to come if the new linux will be a uptodate system
[12:47:01] <PCW> probably 7I84 7I70 7I71 7I72 7I69 mostly
[12:47:11] <skunkworks> heh
[12:47:45] <PCW> 7I84 is basically the 24V I/O section of a 7I77 or 7I76
[12:49:17] <PCW> 7I64 is our first. I would probably not suggest it unless you want floating inputs and outputs
[12:49:45] <skunkworks> this would be for pendant controls...
[12:49:57] <PCW> 7I73 is good for that
[12:50:40] <PCW> (up to 4 MPGs, KB or GPIO possible LCD)
[12:50:41] <skunkworks> ah - I think that is what I was thinking of...
[13:16:39] <skunkworks> pcw_home, what is the total i/o available?
[13:19:55] <IchGuckLive> is our HK friend in holiday yet bevore Springfest
[13:20:06] <IchGuckLive> if not seen him for days
[13:24:46] <Tom_itx> PCW curious what you use for your board layout software
[13:25:16] <IchGuckLive> tom it works
[13:25:29] <Tom_itx> what werks?
[13:25:43] <IchGuckLive> the layout
[13:25:47] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: the holiday starts in about a week, but people start leaving now
[13:25:49] <IchGuckLive> on pcw
[13:26:03] <Tom_itx> i see it works
[13:26:14] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: i guees no parts from him within 6 weeks
[13:26:48] <CaptHindsight> it depends on the seller, but it could be
[13:28:40] <Tom_itx> it's like a month long shutdown isn't it?
[13:28:50] <IchGuckLive> yes
[13:29:01] <CaptHindsight> 2 weeks, but the higher up you are the earlier it starts
[13:29:23] <CaptHindsight> people were already leaving last weekend
[13:29:34] <IchGuckLive> are yu in HK
[13:30:06] <CaptHindsight> no but I have a factory in China
[13:31:06] <IchGuckLive> oh around Chongqing
[13:31:43] <IchGuckLive> i need to leve BYE
[13:31:50] <Tom_itx> buy
[13:32:03] <PCW> skunkworks: its really involved since the 7I73 has so many modes but there are 42 I/O bits available (which may be used by KB,LCD, encoders, analog in etc)
[14:09:48] <heathmanc> need to start pawning all of my galil stuff
[14:15:46] <skunkworks> heathmanc, why did you have it in the first place?!
[14:16:03] <heathmanc> originally worked on using it with mach3
[14:16:39] <heathmanc> i like to mess around
[14:17:38] <skunkworks> heh
[14:18:32] <heathmanc> so now i have some mitsubishi, allen bradley, and galil stuff that I don't need
[14:22:06] * skunkworks loves linuxcnc
[14:22:11] <heathmanc> still trying to get my hands on a couple 7i29 from mesa
[14:22:22] <heathmanc> been checking back for weeks, but none in stock
[14:22:38] <heathmanc> there are things i miss from mach3, but do prefer linuxcnc
[14:22:50] <heathmanc> some of the simple wizards
[14:33:01] <Einar_> Where can I find the source for Axis? My lathe homes both axes properly. But Axis thinks only X is homed. The HAL inspector also says axis is homed. So I assume it must be Axis not looking at the right pin.
[14:33:29] <cradek> you probably need to set LATHE=1 in your ini
[14:33:37] <Einar_> Oh I did.
[14:34:30] <cradek> what do you mean by the HAL inspector also says axis is homed?
[14:35:08] <cradek> what version are you using?
[14:36:36] <Einar_> 2.6 ? It's the linuxcnc-dev. I just landed for a cup of coffe. But I'll start chat from my lathe when in the shop again.
[14:36:52] <cradek> ok you mean master
[14:37:11] <Einar_> Probably. I had to compile it.
[14:38:52] <Einar_> I don't remember why. I think it was either because it's a lathe, or because I use Universal Stepper Controller. This was back in sept. or so. I just pulled a tarp over the whole sh*t for a couple of months.
[14:38:59] <cradek> in master, I just tried, and sim/axis/lathe homes correctly. So you have a config-specific problem.
[14:39:29] <cradek> or you master is suitably different from mine -- but I don't recall this has ever been broken.
[14:39:39] <cradek> you could try sim/axis/lathe on your copy
[14:40:03] <Einar_> I think so too. It probably went with the removal of AXIS_2. So it's probably still looking for AXIS_2 to be homed.
[14:40:24] <cradek> you could compare with sim/axis/lathe.ini to see what the ini file should look like
[14:40:51] <Einar_> And I thought maybe looking in the source would tell me where it looks for home z.
[14:41:22] <cradek> if sim/axis/lathe didn't work either, it would make sense to try fixing AXIS, but that is not the case
[14:43:11] <Einar_> I would think I could connect using HAL, not touching the Axis src. I'll go out in the shop and connect chat from the lathe now.
[14:44:20] <cradek> you probably have more problems than just the homing icon, caused by whatever misconfiguration is tripping it up
[14:48:58] <Einar_Shop> Did the homing. Now HAL configuration WATCH shows axis.0.homed and axis.1.homed are true.
[14:49:38] <cradek> well, axis.1 is Y
[14:49:59] <cradek> you need to compare with sim/axis/lathe.ini to see how it should be configured to work properly
[14:50:29] <Einar_Shop> What you are saying I must have Y even if this is a lathe?
[14:50:41] <cradek> you need to compare with sim/axis/lathe.ini to see how it should be configured to work properly
[14:55:42] <Einar_Shop> Yes, I see there it have no AXIS_1. So AXIS_1 needs to be connected to Y even if there is no Y. Confusing (at least to me)
[15:06:36] <Einar_Shop> OK, so that's fixed then. But I really don't understand, it's monkey see, monkey do. As long as it works though ...
[15:13:59] <Einar_Shop> Now trying to connect up the spindle index + pulse counter. I can see ppmc.0.encoder.03.index flickering when running the spindle at slow speed.
[15:14:58] <Einar_Shop> My current config:
http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/univstep/
[15:15:48] <Einar_Shop> My attempts are in univstep_servo.hal
[15:18:07] <Einar_Shop> It seems this does not do what I believed: net spindle-index motion.spindle-index-enable <=> ppmc.0.encoder.03.index-enable
[15:18:42] <Einar_Shop> Because ppmc.0.encoder.03.index-enable is false.
[15:19:55] <cradek> you will not see index-enable true unless motion is currently asking for index sensing
[15:20:21] <cradek> the way it works is the requestor sets it true, and the encoder sets it back to false [and resets the count to 0] when the index is found
[15:20:34] <Einar_Shop> And when does it do that?
[15:21:00] <cradek> when does motion request an index? when you're doing spindle-synchronized motion like threading/tapping
[15:21:10] <Einar_Shop> Do I need to run a threading op to test this? Now it's just spinning the spindle.
[15:21:23] <cradek> yes run a g33 or something
[15:21:44] <Einar_Shop> Hmm. A suggestion on what I can do to effect that?
[15:21:45] <heathmanc> anybody around familiar with building bit files? i have a 4i65 and downloaded the software version 9.2. I opened the fouri65.ise project
[15:21:54] <cradek> g91 g33 z1
[15:21:55] <heathmanc> the tutorials i have found don't quite line up
[15:21:59] <cradek> if it moves, index worked
[15:22:52] <Einar_Shop> It says K word missing.
[15:23:09] <cradek> err g91 g33 z1 k.05
[15:25:19] <Einar_Shop> Not moving. No error either.
[15:25:32] <cradek> is index-enable stuck true?
[15:26:25] <Einar_Shop> No. motion.spindle-index-enable is stuck false.
[15:26:32] <cradek> are you in m3 or m4?
[15:26:37] <Einar_Shop> M3
[15:26:53] <Einar_Shop> Spindle running slowly S200
[15:27:08] <cradek> do you have anything hooked to motion.spindle-at-speed?
[15:27:50] <Einar_Shop> That does not sound familiar, no.
[15:28:02] <cradek> is motion.spindle-revs increasing by 1.0 per turn of the spindle?
[15:28:26] <Einar_Shop> It's just 0.
[15:28:35] <cradek> ok you need to hook up spindle position
[15:28:53] <heathmanc> I get a irqlogics is not an entity name
[15:29:01] <cradek> scale your encoder correctly so one rev is 1.0 and M3's direction makes it increase, and hook it up to motion.spindle-revs
[15:29:58] <Einar_Shop> Uh. ppmc.0.encoder.03.count is also 0. I assume that is where it should be hooked to?
[15:30:25] <cradek> is that the one your spindle encoder is hooked to?
[15:30:35] <Einar_Shop> Yes.
[15:30:46] <cradek> then if it's not counting, you've got a hardware problem
[15:31:17] <Einar_Shop> Index to index input and P(ulses) to A input on encoder 3 inputs.
[15:31:34] <cradek> it won't count with one input
[15:31:40] <Einar_Shop> I don't have any B. Is that a problem?
[15:31:40] <cradek> don't you have an encoder?
[15:31:45] <cradek> yep
[15:32:07] <cradek> I don't know if the ppmc can handle that, but even if it does you won't be able to tap
[15:32:10] <Einar_Shop> No. 2 readers, one looking at an index slit and the other through holes in a disc.
[15:32:39] <cradek> add a third reader, offset by half a hole
[15:33:29] <Einar_Shop> I thought of that. But there are just small holes, so it would not be a normal 2phase. Most of the time neithar A nor B would be active.
[15:33:53] <cradek> yeah you want 50% duty cycle... drill 'em out?
[15:33:55] <Einar_Shop> Picture:
http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/DSCN0066.JPG
[15:34:32] <cradek> yeah that's not going to work very well...
[15:34:42] <cradek> you really want quadrature so you can tap
[15:34:48] <cradek> that means two sensors with 50% duty cycle
[15:34:55] <cradek> brb
[15:35:20] <Einar_Shop> I hoped I did not have to rip it out, but if I have to I'll do that. I have the reader forks.
[15:44:22] <Einar_Shop> So the hole disc is out. It have 50 holes + 1 index. Max RMP for lathe is 3000. Is this a good pattern, or should I make a new plate with other number of holes?
[15:44:29] <Einar_Shop> RPM*
[15:46:07] <Einar_Shop> It seems I have to make a new plate anyway, as if I drill holes to get 50% duty cycle, they will interfere with the index reader.
[15:52:28] <cradek> it would probably be better to have a few hundred holes. you won't exceed your ppmc's count rate with any disc you can make
[15:52:55] <cradek> should probably check the max speed on your readers though
[15:53:45] <Einar_> I have a glass grating disc with lines so fine I can't see them wo a magnifier. ;-O I'll keep it for a rainy day though.
[15:54:23] <cradek> instead of holes maybe slots would be better? you could just make one longer than the rest
[15:54:36] <cradek> then you can use all three sensors on the same set of slots
[15:54:49] <Einar_> I could not find any specs on that.
[15:54:52] <cradek> it's easier to get a reliable 50% then
[15:54:56] <Einar_> Here:
http://sjaavik.no/linuxcnc-dev/OPB390L55Z.pdf
[15:56:01] <Einar_> Yes, that's probably what I'll do. I'll ask my mill if it can do it. It runs Mach3, so hoping that will not create any incompatibility. ;-)
[15:56:52] <cradek> I agree those docs don't say, which is very weird
[15:57:19] <cradek> you could put a scope on it and at least tell what the rise and fall times are
[15:59:27] <Einar_> Sheesh! Good idea. I should have done that before ripping out the disc. But the holes are small, and it can sense them at 3000RPM, so I think I could at least triple the number of slots to 150.
[15:59:29] <cradek> 90 slots is nice because you get degree resolution and it's a reasonable count rate at reasonable speeds
[15:59:59] <Einar_> OK. That should be no problem, re my last line.
[16:00:15] <cradek> in case you ever want to do some kind of indexing, using degrees is a pretty natural choice
[16:00:43] <heathmanc> lol, managed to make my first bit file from mesa files.... 86 warnings and it works...
[16:00:55] <cradek> heathmanc: awesome
[16:01:01] <cradek> heathmanc: that's an elite club
[16:01:14] <heathmanc> Is that normal for there to be that many warnings off of stock mesa files?
[16:01:29] <cradek> you'd need to ask another person in your clubhouse
[16:01:31] <Einar_> The spindle drive is async motor driven by a VFD, so I don't expect it to do the job of a servo.
[16:01:51] <cradek> Einar_: yeah, I was picturing turning it by hand and locking it somehow
[16:02:28] <cradek> my watchmaker's lathe has a locking pin and 60? holes for that kind of thing
[16:03:02] <heathmanc> Any advice on how to set up my spindle? VFD takes 0-10, i have a 7i48 that puts out +-10
[16:03:31] <heathmanc> I have a pwm pin set up
[16:03:33] <JT-Shop> use the absolute component
[16:03:42] <JT-Shop> abs or something like that
[16:03:55] <JT-Shop> I assume you have a direction pin
[16:04:06] <heathmanc> that's what I need to figure out
[16:04:09] <Einar_> Or check the VFD parameters. Often that can be changed by a parameter.
[16:04:19] <heathmanc> i only need to run one direction really
[16:04:36] <heathmanc> i can force the spindle to run only one direction i believe
[16:05:15] <heathmanc> would I have to set up a step generator to be able to use a direction pin?
[16:05:29] <heathmanc> right now with the 7i48, i use 3 encoders, 4 pwm
[16:05:30] <cradek> nah, just use a general purpose output for direction
[16:05:37] <heathmanc> ok
[16:05:46] <heathmanc> so 3 pins necessary to do it properly
[16:05:47] <cradek> ideally one for forward and one for reverse
[16:06:15] <Einar_> That's what I do. 1 pin to run, another pin to reverse.
[16:06:16] <cradek> I like that better than on and direction
[16:06:24] <cradek> either way
[16:06:47] <heathmanc> have to do ladderlogic for the direction pins?
[16:06:59] <cradek> the only really bad setup is where you use +/- 10 for direction since for very slow speeds you might end up turning the wrong direction
[16:07:09] <cradek> nah, see the list of motion spindle outputs
[16:07:20] <heathmanc> that's helpful
[16:07:22] <Einar_> That can probably also be set in the parameters of the VFD. (How it interprets Run and Dir)
[16:07:24] <cradek> there's anything you could desire
[16:07:36] <heathmanc> shouldn't have to worry about slow speed, it's a 24k rpm spindle
[16:09:54] <Einar_> On mine the default parmeters it needs Run and Stop to gnd to run. Then reverse if the Rev pin is grounded. But again, that depends on the settings in the VFD.
[16:10:19] <Einar_> Grounding only Rev pin will not make it run.
[16:11:06] <Einar_> heathmanc: You do have the documentation for your VFD?
[16:18:54] <Deejay> gn8
[16:30:08] <heathmanc> yes, it is a hitachi wj200
[16:30:46] <heathmanc> i will look at it more tomorrow, it's time for bed here
[16:30:47] <heathmanc> thanks
[17:49:09] <MrSunshine> how does one set up a steady rest .. i do not need to rotate the thing in it just held in the chuck and the steady rest ... but how do i know if its straight? =)
[18:01:03] <JT-Shop> dial indicator
[18:13:37] * JT-Shop is down to tiny pin holes in the hydraulic tank... what a pain
[18:16:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: welding them?
[18:17:27] <JT-Shop> yea, building a tank from scratch
[18:17:45] <Jymmm> how do you have pinoles in new material/
[18:17:48] <Jymmm> ?
[18:18:05] <Jymmm> pin holes*
[18:19:12] <JT-Shop> in the crappy welds because someone didn't prep the material correctly
[18:19:26] <Jymmm> ah
[18:21:26] <Tom_itx> who'd you hire to do that job anyway?
[18:22:08] <JT-Shop> $5 says that guy preps the top better
[18:22:24] <JT-Shop> some dumbasslazyguy
[18:22:46] <Tom_itx> fix it with a dremel
[18:22:52] * Tom_itx snickers a bit
[18:31:21] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: have you used the DirectLogic series of PLC's from Koyo and
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_%28Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular%29
[18:46:41] <Tom_itx> is there a better place to get drive pulleys than stock drive products?
[18:46:48] <Tom_itx> 'timing belts'
[18:52:19] <CaptHindsight> just another option
http://pic-designcatalog.com/cgi-bin/lansaweb?srve=SUBCAT+F%28LW3CATURL%29=BELTS_AND_PULLEYS
[18:53:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bbman.com/catalog/category/root
[19:06:42] <Valen> anybody know if you can get diamond grit coated carbide tools?
[19:06:56] <Valen> I need to cut a lot of glass and be very detailed about it
[19:08:21] <Tom_itx> http://niagaracutter.com/solidcarbide/diamond/index.html
[19:08:51] <Valen> yeah thats diamond coated carbide
[19:09:11] <Tom_itx> is that what you're looking for?
[19:09:13] <Valen> I was after something like a standard burr with lots of big hunks of diamond in it, but using carbide for backing
[19:09:48] <Valen> ok google image search for diamond burr is scary
[19:10:06] <Valen> this kinda thing
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00JBmaCopnMvrD/10PC-Diamond-Burr-Set-HK-BR11-.jpg
[19:10:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/360484089869?lpid=82 like these?
[19:10:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.crystallume.com/html/catalog.html
[19:10:30] <Tom_itx> maybe
[19:11:12] <Valen> yes, like those, CaptHindsight, the issue is most of those are stainless shafts which harden and snap after an hour or so of use
[19:11:19] <Tom_itx> http://www.gesswein.com/c-77-burs.aspx
[19:11:21] <Tom_itx> there you go
[19:11:29] <Tom_itx> for metal and glass work
[19:11:38] <Valen> yes, those are carbide burrs
[19:11:41] <Valen> not with diamond
[19:11:59] <Tom_itx> they advertise diamond
[19:12:03] <Valen> nobody seems to mix the two
[19:12:15] <Tom_itx> Diamond coated burs for metal and glass work.
[19:12:41] <Valen> they dont say what their tool material is though
[19:12:43] <CaptHindsight> maybe look for dental as well
[19:12:48] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:12:51] <Valen> CaptHindsight: thats what I have now
[19:12:57] <Valen> they snap very quickly
[19:13:15] <Valen> not from overload, they are stainless shafts, i believe they work harden
[19:13:50] <Valen> i mean in a dentist they are going to run for like 30 seconds of load before they get tossed
[19:13:58] <Valen> we run cuts that last for like an hour
[19:14:33] <Tom_itx> what about water cooling?
[19:14:41] <Valen> its done under water
[19:14:47] <Tom_itx> hrm
[19:15:08] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5j_Y4CwMLM&list=PL0AE03F6956629A6F
[19:15:38] <Valen> the cloud is glass dust in the water
[19:18:39] <CaptHindsight> after they break is the diamond still attached to the cutting face?
[19:18:50] <Valen> yes, its the shaft that snaps
[19:20:06] <Tom_itx> http://www.maford.com/pdf/metric%20burs.pdf
[19:20:12] <Tom_itx> maybe a possibility
[19:20:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4Pc-Tungsten-Carbide-Diamond-Cut-Milling-Burr-Set-New-/400551166713?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
[19:20:55] <CaptHindsight> nevermind
[19:21:03] <Tom_itx> yeah same thing as mine
[19:21:06] <Tom_itx> diamond cut
[19:21:18] <CaptHindsight> those look like they just have a diamond shape
[19:23:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rakuten.com/prod/40-grit-two-step-brazed-diamond-router-bit/226779966.html?listingId=193915803
[19:23:13] <CaptHindsight> 1/4" shaft
[19:23:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.dkhardware.com/product-7384-bftrb40-40-grit-brazed-flat-tip-diamond-router-bit.html?mr:trackingCode=8BF3F610-CDE0-E111-9B44-001B21BCB944&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=18074701812&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=60257654532&gclid=CI7xt6vPlbwCFc5DMgodyyAAlQ
[19:24:17] <CaptHindsight> Valen: what dia shaft do your current bits have?
[19:29:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/130621814269?lpid=82 6mm shaft and says diamond
[19:30:19] <eric_unterhausen> 6 mm rod ends are twice what 1/4" rod ends cost at mcmaster
[19:30:23] <eric_unterhausen> what's up with that?
[19:30:39] <Valen> 1.8mm i believe
[19:31:13] <eric_unterhausen> I wanted to use bike parts that are 6mmx1
[19:31:22] <eric_unterhausen> guess I'm going to have to go to ebay
[19:31:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mastertechdiamond.com/
[19:32:36] <CaptHindsight> they could probably make a batch for you
[19:33:23] <CaptHindsight> I did some work for a co like that years ago, they would make all sorts of low quantity tools with diamonds
[20:57:09] <pcw_home> more spam on the forum:
[20:57:10] <pcw_home> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/49-basic-configuration/27430-think-like-linux-act-like-ups-smile-like-amazon
[21:00:03] <mozmck> I can delete it, should I?
[21:00:23] <Tom_itx> feel free
[21:00:28] <mozmck> I don't know if I can ban a user from posting or not.
[21:00:36] <Tom_itx> you could warn him
[21:00:46] <Tom_itx> ban is fine with me too
[21:00:48] <Tom_itx> ;)
[21:01:40] <mozmck> hmm, deleted the post and I guess the topic is gone
[21:02:26] <mozmck> unless his account was hacked there's not much chance he's a valid user I would think.
[21:09:32] <pcw_home> thanks and good riddance
[21:09:50] <Tom_itx> cleaned up the tutorials a bit
[21:10:18] <pcw_home> Fanuc aA1000 encoder working thanks to Asa loaning me one (1e6 count.turn)
[21:12:04] <pcw_home> it actually has 22 bits instead of just 20 you might expect but the last 2 bits are just noise/not monotonic etc
[21:18:38] <skunkworks> pcw_home: cool!
[21:23:31] <pcw_home> It is pretty impressive (and very hard to move a count at a time)
[21:23:48] <Tom_itx> i bet
[21:23:58] <Jymmm> pcw_home: a REALLY long stick
[21:37:02] <pcw_home> yep pretty long (one count is less than a .001" motion with a 10 foot stick)
[21:45:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/380713886099 10 TON YARD CRANE, this could come in handy for moving machines
[23:15:27] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, i spent the day with pinholes on a compression tank ( predates HVAC expansion tanks ).
[23:15:33] <tjtr33> Used a product that is water activated epoxy cloth.
[23:15:33] <tjtr33> kneed it under water 12 secs, wrap around tank/pipe/piehole and its rock solid in 20 minutes. hth.
[23:17:18] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, I've used the koyo's on a 21 posn shuttling carousel ATC. good stuff ( build your own cable they rip you on that part )
