#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-01-08

[02:05:42] <Deejay> moin
[02:29:46] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:16:33] <R2E4> addf failed...... WTF
[07:16:36] <R2E4> whats wrong with this?
[07:16:36] <R2E4> loadrt debounce cfg="2"
[07:16:36] <R2E4> addf debounce.1 base thread
[07:16:36] <R2E4> addf debounce.2 base thread
[07:16:36] <R2E4> setp debounce.0.delay 50
[07:16:36] <R2E4> setp debounce.1.delay 100
[07:16:50] <R2E4> tried 0 and 1 also
[07:17:43] <R2E4> its marked bad position 0
[07:19:35] <skunkworks> 2 - would that not be 0 and 1 then?
[07:20:17] <skunkworks> and base thread? do you need a base thread with mesa hardware?
[07:21:46] <R2E4> I tried servo thread also, I tried 0 and 1. I just took it down to:
[07:22:06] <R2E4> hor!)
[07:22:06] <R2E4> [08:01.23] <R2E4> its marked bad position 0
[07:22:08] <R2E4> arrgh!
[07:22:14] <R2E4> loadrt debounce cfg="2"
[07:22:15] <R2E4> addf debounce.0 base thread
[07:22:26] <R2E4> and that doesnt work
[07:24:01] <R2E4> tried it with servo thread also
[07:24:09] <Loetmichel> hmm... it seeems stainless stelle has a high evaporation pressure... sdismantled a thin client, repaired it, put it back together.. 3 of 144 m3*4 screws missing.. :-(
[07:24:59] <skunkworks> your flailing... take a breath. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/rtcomps.html#_debounce_a_id_sec_debounce_a
[07:30:35] <R2E4> I was doing the exact same thing as Andy is doing here http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/12062-joint-0-limit-error-setting-up-debounce?start=6
[07:31:32] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: some materials and parts just have mysterious/spooky behaviors
[07:31:47] <skunkworks> if you have cfg=2.. you only need addf debounce.0 base-thread
[07:31:48] <R2E4> so no addf for debounce?
[07:32:12] <skunkworks> (only need to add 1 function)
[07:32:17] <R2E4> ok
[07:32:32] <skunkworks> and it needs to be how andy has it.
[07:32:40] <skunkworks> (addf debounce.0 base-thread)
[07:33:00] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: ok, 144 screws was a bit much to design but its need HF protection ;-)
[07:33:05] <skunkworks> you used .1 and .2 which don't exist)
[07:33:06] <R2E4> hehe, yeah yeah,
[07:33:08] <CaptHindsight> heatsink compound is another, if you open a tube and use it one place it will magically appear smeared on the backside of a surface or on clothing rooms away
[07:33:26] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412
[07:35:07] <skunkworks> and you cannot have 2 separate delays for that one 'group'
[07:35:17] <CaptHindsight> 12^2 is a magic number :)
[07:35:32] <skunkworks> setp debounce.0.delay 20
[07:35:32] <Loetmichel> pure coincidence
[07:35:50] <skunkworks> andys example is perfect
[07:35:50] <Loetmichel> but the screws add some to the 12kg monitor/client weight
[07:36:25] <Loetmichel> s/some /subtancially
[07:37:40] <R2E4> I'm getting base-thread not found error
[07:37:48] <R2E4> loadrt debounce cfg=3
[07:37:49] <R2E4> addf debounce.0 base-thread
[07:37:54] <jthornton> R2E4, does this make sense to you? http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/hardware/mpg.html
[07:38:21] <jthornton> from a newbie perspective
[07:40:55] <R2E4> That makes alot of sense. Where was that when I was doing mine the other day?
[07:43:17] <jthornton> in my head
[07:43:17] <R2E4> got one for debounce? hehe
[07:43:17] <jthornton> what are you debouncing?
[07:43:17] <R2E4> the toggle inputs
[07:44:01] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/toggle.9.html
[07:45:58] <R2E4> arrg!
[07:46:34] <jthornton> learning I see
[07:47:33] <R2E4> ok, so I connect my toggle with pin. This part is working, do I use the debounce in the same net line?
[07:48:06] <R2E4> or do I setp toggle debounce then net the toggle to the input
[07:48:32] <jthornton> I usually setp before connecting a component
[07:49:07] <jthornton> load, addf, setp, then net
[07:50:54] <R2E4> So now I have to ref dbounce in the sig when I net correct?
[07:51:47] <jthornton> no
[07:52:19] <R2E4> yeah, it just told me.
[07:52:22] <jthornton> you just set it, your thinking of using the debounce component which is separate
[07:52:45] <jthornton> toggle has a debounce option built in that you just set
[07:53:02] * jthornton heads to the shop...
[07:53:32] <R2E4> I really have to change video drivers I think, the Biatch keeps locking up.
[08:04:50] <pcw_home> R2E4: you do not want a base thread
[08:05:53] <R2E4> pcw_home: thanks, I removed it and used the built-in debounce with toggle. Wioll have to get back to external debounce when I get to other control buttons though.
[08:07:52] <R2E4> have to check and see if it is working now......
[08:08:12] <pcw_home> the servo thread is plenty fast for manual switch debouncing
[08:14:00] <pcw_home> 20-50 ms seems about right for manual switches, slow enough that
[08:14:01] <pcw_home> you cant tease the switch, but fast enough that there's no noticeable delay
[08:14:38] <R2E4> I set it for 50 for testing. but I found three errors on the screen pertaining to the 5i25 and 7i77
[08:15:26] <pcw_home> unrelated to the debounce setting (unless you have a syntax error)
[08:15:26] <R2E4> 5i25 port0 ch0 error, 7i77 eror 13 comm error and 7i77 error 4 extra charactor
[08:15:55] <R2E4> but the inputs are working on the 7i77
[08:16:07] <pcw_home> thats a electrical noise issue
[08:19:31] <R2E4> ok, the 7i77 is sitting on the workbench with wires sticking out of it inputs for testing. in a equipment lab with lots of power supplies blazing......
[08:25:59] <R2E4> WOOHOO!!! its working.....
[08:28:36] <R2E4> pcw_home: Would it be safe to say the RGOSO signal could be used as drive enable? http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/servo%20amps/SD_Servo_Amp.pdf
[08:29:17] <R2E4> The actual machine is in not ready state and the RGOSO led on the amps are off.
[08:30:19] <gonzo_> pcw_home
[08:30:26] <gonzo_> hi peter
[08:31:15] <pcw_home> Yes thats the drive enable (wire each to the 7I77 enable outputs)
[08:31:23] <gonzo_> any news on the hostmot sw for the 7i90 board?
[08:31:50] <gonzo_> (not sure if it's you that manages it, but thriough you would be in the know)
[08:31:52] <R2E4> cool!
[08:32:09] <pcw_home> I am just finishing the 7I90 firmware, so I will do that soon
[08:32:47] <pcw_home> right now i debugging the serial hm2 host interface for a customer
[08:32:56] <pcw_home> I am
[08:34:45] <kengu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCql8DwcSU i think this (similar machine) will not be linuxcnc'd
[09:00:06] <gonzo_> thanks peter. Will keep an eye open for it
[09:35:17] <R2E4> The ENA0- and ENA0+ are the drive enable pins for the axis, I stick a relay on there and use the contact as input for RGSO, should make drive ready.....
[09:35:36] <R2E4> Hope I have thqa right
[09:38:08] <pcw_home> You should not need a relay
[09:40:10] <pcw_home> looks like ENA(N)- to 15G and ENA(N)+ to RGSO
[09:41:06] <R2E4> OK, I'll try that when I get there.
[09:41:45] <R2E4> Spindle Servo I will look at later, that uses a fanuc servo amp.
[09:43:09] <R2E4> I am mapping out I/O's to see if I need more, whcih I am sure I will. PLC with 50 relays, control panbel with a few buttons and 8 AC motors....
[10:11:25] <skunkworks> I don't think I have any debouncing on the k&t.. I bet the opto22 really help that.
[10:12:28] <pcw_home> I think default OPTO 22 inputs are pretty slow
[10:13:30] <skunkworks> I think we found a faster one for the probe input
[10:15:33] <skunkworks> it seems to work just dandy :)
[10:16:55] <pcw_home> looks like standard is 5 ms
[10:17:49] <pcw_home> IDC5B is 50/100 usec
[10:23:11] <R2E4> How would I toggle an iocontrol from an input, trying but can't find example.
[10:23:45] <R2E4> I have iocontrol.0.coolant-flood tied to 7i77.0.0.output-02
[10:24:03] <R2E4> I am trying to turn it on with a toggle PB
[10:26:20] <pcw_home> isn't that normally done via gcode?
[10:27:24] <pcw_home> M7.M8,M9
[10:28:50] <JT-Shop> R2E4, halui
[10:31:12] <R2E4> Yes, but I want to be aable to turn it on with a button also
[10:32:09] <pcw_home> man halui
[10:32:19] <R2E4> ok
[10:45:54] <skunkworks> pcw_home, that may be the one we are using...
[10:56:26] <JT-Shop> R2E4, go to the forum and let the HAL force be with you
[10:56:41] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/47-hal-examples
[10:57:49] <R2E4> everytime I move I have 50 pages to read
[10:58:30] <R2E4> HAL you ever been overwhelmed by what you have to learn?
[10:58:54] <ries> R2E4: many times... yet all the times I recovered!
[11:02:17] <skunkworks> in the best mach user voice 'well... You do have to be a programmer to use linuxcnc....'
[11:07:47] <archivist> just need the method to sink in, then just lookup the odd bit
[11:12:54] <R2E4> thats the problem, when you have a clay membrane, it doesn't sink in that easy....
[11:15:01] <mozmck> skunkworks: that would be a high squeeky nervous sounding voice :)
[11:22:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzTGSKNjrp4 this voice?
[11:29:45] <JT-Shop> R2E4, only one paragraph to read to get external coolant toggle
[11:30:42] <JT-Shop> besides after spending years working on the docs I want someone to read them LOL
[11:36:36] <jdh> I've read most of them.
[11:37:13] <R2E4> yeah I know, i read it. Problem is to understand it, you need to understand all the underlinung docs and syntax.
[11:37:35] <JT-Shop> R2E4, did you find the coolant toggle thread?
[11:37:48] <R2E4> I want to be able to look at a line or example and understand it in my head, signal path and relation to hardware.
[11:37:51] <R2E4> yeah I found it.
[11:38:09] <JT-Shop> each time you solve one little puzzle the rest of the docs make that much more sense when you read them
[11:38:20] <JT-Shop> was that what your trying to do?
[11:38:31] <R2E4> Yup
[11:39:38] <R2E4> I created a spreadsheet, with the 7i77 and all the I/O and I am mapping what I am going to need. I am trying the, what I think would be easy, but nothing really is coming off easy.
[11:39:53] <R2E4> Not impossible but reading trying asking and learning as I go.
[11:40:09] <R2E4>
[11:41:29] <JT-Shop> it even has a pretty diagram in that thread
[11:41:55] <archivist> I think a common problem is a bit of docs will only explain/show one or two points, missing out what the writer thought was obvious
[11:42:22] <jdh> that is often true when docs are written by subject matter experts
[11:42:48] <jdh> it is better for docs to be written by professional tech writers.
[11:43:14] <jdh> I keep trying that line but it never seems to work, I still end up having to write docs.
[11:44:00] <R2E4> As a newbie type, What is missing is the basic fundamental docs which explains the glue that holds everything together. Then all these docs that the guys are creating would be more clear.
[11:45:09] <R2E4> I am sure once I get up to speed and able to understnad the baiscs, I will understand when JT for example shoots me over one of his docs. Now it is taking alot of time, having to lookup each different part I havent seen yet.
[11:47:57] <JT-Shop> R2E4, when I first started working on the docs I knew nothing about EMC, and had to learn as I went. I tried to keep my perspective as a newbie and you should have see the programmer speak in the old docs
[11:48:06] <JT-Shop> what is this glue you speak of?
[11:50:22] <archivist> sometimes the glue is referred to but not where it is eg in g83 1. Preliminary motion, as described above.
[11:52:51] <archivist> so having used an index to get to http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G83-Drilling-Peck, you are left wondering what "above" means
[11:55:08] <cradek> you can scroll up until you see talk about preliminary motion, which is a heading... I think that's pretty clear
[11:55:31] <archivist> yes but a link would be so simple
[11:55:44] <cradek> true a link to above would be better
[11:55:56] <cradek> a holdover from targeting printed docs, I bet
[11:56:08] <archivist> how many differing aboves are there
[11:56:09] <R2E4> The docs are amazing, but without the basic knowledge and understanding of the system, it is overwhelming.
[11:56:16] <pcw_home> or say preliminary motion as discussed in G81 section
[11:56:39] <archivist> exactly
[11:56:48] <pcw_home> (assuming links are not always available)
[11:56:54] <R2E4> The glue is the basic knowledge which is required to understand and implement diferent objects and sections.
[11:57:53] <jthornton> in HAL or all of LinuxCNC?
[11:58:29] <R2E4> in all of linuxcnc
[11:59:06] <pcw_home> no matter how you slice it that's a lot of ground to cover
[11:59:14] <jthornton> wow
[12:00:44] <jthornton> really from an integrator standpoint you mostly need to know HAL to create your configuration
[12:00:49] <R2E4> I love this stuff though. It took me a few years to decide to jump in and try an figure it out
[12:01:36] <archivist> but to use the comps in hal you have to jump out the main hal docs to the man pages
[12:01:54] <R2E4> I speak for myself when I say all LinuxCNC, cause I allready know Linux enough, but for someone that does not know Linux, I imagine it woulod be much tougher.
[12:01:56] <jthornton> yep
[12:03:01] <pcw_home> well for a simple machine a canned config avoids all this, retrofitting a complex machine is well... complex
[12:03:49] <R2E4> I built a cnc router, and it is today running with Mach3. That would be considered a canned config, which should be quite easy.
[12:04:00] <R2E4> 3 axis, router using steppers and a G540
[12:05:01] <R2E4> Moving Gantry, When I built it, I installed EMC or linuxcnc, dont remember, and couldnt get it to work cause I have slaved y motors and could not get gantrykins to work
[12:05:30] * jthornton finishes his lunch of gruel
[12:08:15] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:12:15] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: did you use white bread for the lunch
[12:12:47] <jthornton> no bread at all
[12:12:57] <jthornton> gruel and an orange
[12:13:00] <IchGuckLive> grul withoud bread
[12:13:56] <jthornton> actually grits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grits
[12:14:09] <R2E4> I love grits
[12:14:23] <R2E4> some butter, could eat it daily
[12:14:46] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: are you on diat at your age
[12:14:52] <jthornton> no butter on mine, I get Kroger cheese grits and do eat it every day for lunch
[12:15:03] <jthornton> I never go on a diet
[12:15:28] <jthornton> diets are for fools
[12:15:55] <IchGuckLive> agree i go woodchipping and the doctor is good on me
[12:16:46] <jthornton> I sit on the deck and drink wine with my doctor so we are friends
[12:17:21] <IchGuckLive> sitting on deck at sunset is always a good idee
[12:18:01] <R2E4> I would agree with that if DOC was of the female kind....
[12:18:56] <jthornton> no, he is a shooting and drinking buddy
[12:19:12] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: that always make stress not a good feeling
[12:36:30] <Zaaarin> any of u guys no how 2 weld?
[12:40:52] <andypugh> I have moy moments
[12:41:04] <andypugh> I have seen some pretty good elds on jt's stuffs
[12:41:15] <andypugh> I weld better than I type, I think :-)
[12:42:21] <archivist> I got trained to be a welder, but most is forgotten
[12:50:19] <archivist> hmm he forgot to ask the real question
[12:51:34] <einar_> Yes. (Is this a poll?)
[12:52:39] <archivist> there is a certain percentage that never ask the right question in irc
[12:53:52] <einar_> I'm trying to include spindle control. In Axis it appears for some milliseconds, then disappears again !??
[12:54:10] <einar_> How do I make it stick?
[12:54:40] <einar_> Disappears upon starting that is.
[12:54:46] <andypugh> Axis deletes the spindle control if it doesn't see HAL file mentions of certain pins
[12:55:24] <andypugh> if you look through usr/bin/axis you can probably figure out what it is looking for :-)
[13:05:32] <IchGuckLive> einar_: hi how did you connect it via pyvcp
[13:07:56] <einar_> <confused> I searced for spindle and got tons of hits. I have this: ppmc.0.DAC8.00.value. So I need to net it to some pin that is output from S<number>
[13:08:46] <einar_> I don't know the tag names, or where to start looking for them.
[13:09:12] <andypugh> net spindle-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out ppmc.0.DAC8.00.value ( http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html )
[13:09:31] <einar_> And I assume Axis needs to "see" a tag name for the current speed?
[13:09:45] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
[13:10:17] <andypugh> Axis is a bit too clever for its own good and searches the HAL file for motion.spindle-speed-out (AFAIK)
[13:10:49] <skunkworks> or it might just look at the current running hal..
[13:12:56] <einar_> Ohh! There's some documentation I did not notice: "man". I'm off reading (again). ;-)
[13:14:11] <andypugh> skunkworks: Aye, it might do that. I am not sure which is easier.
[13:14:27] <skunkworks> right
[13:14:57] <einar_> So "spindle-cmd" is from S<number> ?
[13:15:24] <skunkworks> andypugh, peter reprocuced my issue with the 7i80.. (I don't feel so stupid now)
[13:15:35] <andypugh> einar_: Indeed
[13:15:36] <Tom_itx> heh
[13:15:53] <andypugh> einar_: Ah, no, actually, not at all
[13:16:34] <andypugh> "spindle-cmd" is entirely meaningless, we could have called it "cheese-on-toast" and the HAL would work just as well
[13:17:07] <andypugh> motion.spindle-speed-out is directly controlled by the S-word (and my M3 / M4)
[13:19:59] <einar_> So this is relevant for me: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control
[13:20:39] <andypugh> Not really, as it is for either motenc or _really_ ancient Mesa drivers
[13:22:10] <einar_> Thnx. That's why I asked. I have been off-tracked by outdated wiki pages before. (Burnt child smells bad.)
[13:23:48] <andypugh> Look at the examples page I posted a link to
[13:24:16] <andypugh> You have a different destination to most, but it's all the same in theory
[13:24:48] <andypugh> You can see all the pins available in Machine->Show Hal Configuration
[13:25:13] <andypugh> I need to head out to the workshop
[13:25:37] <andypugh> (I have $100 of delrin to waste)
[13:25:53] <IchGuckLive> motion.spindle-speed-out MAY have a Negativ value BE Aware of it
[13:26:24] <IchGuckLive> t does not count always positiv you need to thansvers it to a ABS
[13:30:15] <einar_> Uhh! That would be !nice. Slowing down then suddenly rolling over to 5000RPM! I'll take note of that. And not connect it to VFD until tested.
[13:31:39] <IchGuckLive> i will find a component i got for this ready made for a Spindle that takes 6 bit input tomorrow same time
[13:31:55] <IchGuckLive> im off For Today BYE
[14:31:19] <anonimasu> PCW: are you alive?
[14:31:29] <anonimasu> or andypugh
[14:32:19] <PCW> is this good news or money?
[14:33:09] <anonimasu> neither :)
[14:33:49] <anonimasu> PCW: I am wondering some stuff about the sincos encoders of mine and how would I actually get them connected to emc
[14:33:53] <anonimasu> to use with the 8i20's
[14:34:20] <einar_> I'm celebrating output on my analog port controlled by S-word and Spindle override! :-)
[14:35:12] <anonimasu> and I saw andypugh's stuff using a ardino with a sincos lookup table for resolvers, which would be a very neat solution(if you could use the sserial for it somehow)
[14:37:14] <anonimasu> and the big question is is the sslbp/sslbp stuff that is in the 8i20 something you (could) decipler and pull data from a arduino to emc with?
[14:38:32] <einar_> Sincos as in Hiperface?
[14:38:52] <anonimasu> yeah
[14:39:11] <anonimasu> I have a rs485 decoder for it but it's a pita.. compared to just doing it that other way
[15:05:32] <anonimasu> it's not particularily neat specially with multiple motors, rather a arduino to just calculate the arctan and throw it as startup position for each motor
[15:06:07] <anonimasu> rather the python in userspace and rs232<->rs485 and then decode it..
[15:07:36] <PCW> you should be able to use the IC-Haus interpolators for this
[15:09:32] <PCW> an arduino may work for a resolver (1 or 2 sine/cos cycles/turn) but not a sin/cos optical encoder (possibly 1000s of cycles/turn)
[15:11:47] <anonimasu> PCW: I tried, they need a adapter for them that costs 2k eur
[15:11:53] <PCW> we have a little interpolator board using one of the IC-Haus interpolators coming out fairly soon
[15:13:45] <PCW> it can output quadrature,SSI and BISS (and we condition the inputs so it will accept ground referenced +-1V and 11 uA for Heidenhaine scales)
[15:14:53] <Tom_itx> anonimasu how you been?
[15:14:58] <anonimasu> Tom_itx: busy with life
[15:15:42] <anonimasu> PCW: I am managing even with the sincos signals into the diff receivers, this is for a router..
[15:15:51] <anonimasu> PCW: but I need the angle for startup of the motors
[15:16:51] <anonimasu> PCW: so the big quick question until you release that board, how do I manage to do that, neatly
[15:19:29] <anonimasu> PCW: and the second question is, did you release that board for running the 8i20's with 0-10v
[15:20:05] <WalterN> I don't like fanuc
[15:20:09] <WalterN> lol
[15:20:38] <alex_joni> anonimasu: howdy
[15:20:48] <anonimasu> hello alex long time no see!
[15:20:56] <alex_joni> indeed
[15:21:03] <alex_joni> how've you been?
[15:21:10] <anonimasu> insanely busy
[15:21:19] <alex_joni> I know the feeling
[15:24:25] <anonimasu> gtg, sorry!
[15:24:27] <anonimasu> laters
[15:24:30] <alex_joni> anonimasu: jas
[15:24:38] <alex_joni> 23:12 < PCW> anonimasu: we decided not to produce the analog interface to the 8I20 (the 8C20)
[15:27:20] * anonimasu dropped in the check again
[15:29:50] <alex_joni> anonimasu: andypugh is around
[15:35:28] <alex_joni> although idle for 2h
[15:42:26] <einar_> He went off to machine some Delrin. If that is in a lathe he may be stuck in the "fishing line" chips. :-)
[15:47:17] <anonimasu> hm, anyone have a _easier_ way to stick data from external to emc, perferably through the mesa hardware
[15:53:42] <anonimasu> PCW: actually, is there a component to receive sserial data(through hal)
[15:53:46] <anonimasu> that would be just fine for this
[15:53:49] <anonimasu> for now
[15:55:22] <alex_joni> there was some bit-banging sserial iirc
[15:56:33] <anonimasu> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc2.git/plain/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/sserial.c <- like that?
[15:59:53] <anonimasu> ah, well, laters
[16:03:15] <alex_joni> laters ;)
[16:14:00] <Jymmm> Where did I put my print server?
[16:14:12] <JT-Shop> archivist, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G81-Drilling-Cycle
[16:22:48] <einar_> Where do I adress corrections to: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/pdf/LinuxCNC_User_Manual.pdf
[16:23:57] <einar_> Lathe diagram is missing on p.20 in current version.
[16:24:17] <andypugh> anonimasu: I am back
[16:24:49] <andypugh> And I agree with PCW, look at the ICHaus development board. I think it is about £65
[16:25:12] <einar_> Thanks for your help Andy. I now have analog out! :-)
[16:26:32] <JT-Shop> einar_, which version?
[16:27:27] <einar_> 2.6.0~pre is what it says on startup.
[16:28:24] <andypugh> The CamBam LinuxCNC post doesn't seem to use G43.
[16:28:32] <andypugh> Which seems like an oversight
[16:28:42] <Deejay> gn8
[16:29:10] <einar_> Ohh. Sorry. The manual. It's what is on the server now. I'll find my printout. Dlded it today.
[16:29:10] <JT-Shop> einar_, all diagrams seem to be there. what section is it in if your looking at the pdf?
[16:30:30] <uw> BYE Deejay
[16:30:33] <JT-Shop> page 20 of the user manual pdf?
[16:30:40] <JT-Shop> I see both diagrams there
[16:30:58] <einar_> It's V2.5 2014-01-06. Fig. 3.3
[16:31:31] <JT-Shop> I'm running master on this computer and Fig. 3.3 is there...
[16:31:48] <einar_> I fixed it by printing out that page from V2.5, 2013-08-22
[16:31:49] <JT-Shop> I wonder if it installed the docs for master as well
[16:32:09] <JT-Shop> I'll have to check in the am what's up
[16:34:39] <einar_> I have it fixed. Just thought it could be easily fixed. BTW: a version info would be nice. Then I could reprint only the pages/sections that have some changes.
[16:36:05] <einar_> Since you obviously have to do with the manuals. How do I give a "like" here? :-)
[16:37:05] <JT-Shop> lol only on the forum can you do that
[16:37:48] <Jymmm> SERIOUSLY IMPRESSIVE SMART FUCKING DOG... http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/water_cooler/what-my-beagle-does-when-we-arent-home-dog-climbs-into-toaster-to-get-chicken-nuggets1389198616646
[16:38:39] <einar_> Many years ago I did EMC (not EMC2) on my mill. It was kind of monkey see, monkey do. Now I at least think I'm starting to understand.
[16:39:49] <einar_> The new manuals are a huge improvement!!!
[16:41:50] <JT-Shop> thanks, I spent a long long time working on them
[16:44:18] <Tom_itx> 2nd that...
[16:46:41] <andypugh> Argh! I did my CAM using an 8mm cutter. Guess what size I don't have?
[16:47:49] <jdh> add some cutter compensation and tell it you have <whatever size> cutter
[16:48:39] <andypugh> Hard to do when it is all CAM-ed up.
[16:49:27] <Tom_itx> easy with cad cam
[16:50:07] <andypugh> I don't have the model, or the CAM system here. I emailed myself the NGC. (this was silly)
[16:50:22] <Tom_itx> woops
[16:50:33] <jdh> I CAM'ed a 0.25" end mill since I had some new ones. Cut everything and the inside holes were too small. Turns out the new one was really 0.235"
[16:50:53] <einar_> Use a file?
[16:52:49] <einar_> But wait. If it's a circular hole/pocket, fiddling with compensation could save it. I have done so.
[16:53:09] <andypugh> No, it's a comlex 3D shape
[16:54:15] <einar_> Ahh. Then there is nothing but re-CAM.
[16:59:44] <Tom_itx> andypugh using a ballnose?
[17:00:09] <Tom_itx> or is this a lathe part?
[17:24:53] <andypugh> End-mill
[17:27:40] <andypugh> I was rather hoping to finish the job today though.
[17:29:20] <Tom_itx> you don't think cutter comp would work?
[17:30:20] <andypugh> It would, if the code had been written that way, but I can't tell which side of the work each pass is by just looking at the G-code
[17:42:52] <Tom_itx> is there a 'one shot' function where i feed an input and it pulses?
[17:43:24] <Tom_itx> toggle might work
[17:44:13] <andypugh> There is a function called "oneshot"
[17:44:52] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/oneshot.9.html
[17:45:00] <Tom_itx> yep just pulled up the docs
[17:47:02] <Tom_itx> seems both edges trigger it
[17:47:38] <andypugh> You get to choose which
[17:48:05] <andypugh> (use two of them and an or2 to trigger on both edges)
[17:48:18] <Tom_itx> ok i see that now
[17:54:15] <Tom_itx> can you use 2 toggles side by side as a flipflop with opposing outputs?
[17:54:49] <Tom_itx> ahh i see flipflip now..
[17:56:15] <Tom_itx> only one out though
[17:59:19] <archivist> JT-Shop, that's better, the retracts in G83, are they at different rates, methinks not, should line 6 be rapid out rather than traverse rate? similar for the other drill cycles?
[18:05:03] <andypugh> archivist: I think we might have fixed that
[18:05:21] <andypugh> Ah, no, wait, misunderstood
[18:05:38] <andypugh> I think "traverse rate" is a comfusing way to say "rapid"
[18:05:55] <archivist> exactly my point :)
[18:09:52] <Tom_itx> are halui.program.pause and halui.program.resume pulsed inputs or do you hold them in state?
[18:12:24] <JT-Shop> archivist, yes it is confusing to use two different terms in the same spot for the same thing, thanks for spotting that
[18:51:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140108-new-owl-nano-desktop-sl-3d-printer-achieves-100-nanometer-resolution-says-its-creators.html 100nm resolution, no misleading marketing claims there :)
[18:52:43] <andypugh> "but they haven't shown any prints yet" Well, why the heck not?
[18:53:14] <CaptHindsight> the catch is all the prints are only 100nm x 100nm
[18:53:28] <CaptHindsight> they can't find them when they are done
[18:54:10] <Valen> could well have that resolution
[18:54:12] <Valen> +-4mm
[18:54:19] <CaptHindsight> hehe
[18:54:54] <Valen> STL printers are pretty good for that really
[18:54:54] <CaptHindsight> you can do that with 2 photon and e-beam, but they aren't
[18:55:37] <Valen> heh yeah now you mention it that is IC scale stuff
[18:56:14] <Valen> lol they could print a CD
[18:56:18] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_nanometres
[18:56:34] <WalterN> alright
[18:56:45] <WalterN> I wonder how bad I can crash the machine
[18:56:45] <Valen> oh duh, i was off by an order of magnitude
[18:56:57] <Valen> I was thinking um
[18:57:12] <andypugh> I used to design machines for measuring the force needed to wipe tracks off ICs. We didn't use any special leadscrews, just a spring and optical feedback (operator with a microscope). Worked well.
[18:57:38] <WalterN> I should probably cut the softjaws off so they dont stick out as much
[18:58:15] <Valen> they couldn't possibly have that resolution, the wavelength of light is bigger
[18:58:23] <Valen> well no thats wrong
[18:58:40] <Valen> they could have that resolution, but their feature size would be at least 4x the size
[18:58:56] <andypugh> Yes, sorry, I read the "IC scale" part and glossed over the actual number
[19:00:06] <Valen> in 2000 they were making IC's at 130nm
[19:00:24] <Valen> IE these guys could 3d print a 1:1 scale model of a pentium 3 ;->
[19:00:56] <andypugh> I am currently blaming the journalists
[19:01:13] <Valen> blame the lawyers and marketing people too
[19:12:17] <CaptHindsight> they claim that it can focus on an area as small as 100nm
[19:12:22] <CaptHindsight> pure BS
[19:13:01] <CaptHindsight> unless by focus they mean a spot size of ~100um on an area 100x100nm
[19:13:30] <CaptHindsight> I can hit a spot of 100nmx100nm with my fist as well :)
[19:13:59] <andypugh> I used to hit a 10nm spot. But I was using electrons.
[19:15:16] <andypugh> ( http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00351428 )
[19:23:16] <Valen> andypugh: have you heard our government is going to stop rolling out a fibre to the home national network in favour of saving a year and a half and spending the same amount of money to do fibre to the node
[19:25:35] <andypugh> Is this like the argument that if you have a computationally intensive PhD project then Moore's law means that you should spend 2.5 years on a beach in the Bahamas, buy the fastest possible machine with the money that is left, and finish the same project in the last 6 months?
[19:27:04] <Valen> no, because that actually makes sense
[19:29:42] <eric_unterhausen> is it a requirement that anyone that builds their own 3d printer have a kickstarter?
[19:29:52] <eric_unterhausen> because I don't want to
[19:30:08] <andypugh> Sorry, it's the rules
[19:30:12] <Tom_itx> don't admit it if you do
[19:30:45] <andypugh> I wonder if I should Kickstarter my CNC boring head?
[19:31:29] <andypugh> There must be almost a dozen people out there who would want one
[19:32:17] <eric_unterhausen> that almost sounds like it might be too successful
[19:32:50] <eric_unterhausen> are you ready for $300000 to fall into your lap?
[19:32:51] <andypugh> The three Kickstarters I have subscribed to have all made about 100x their goald
[19:32:53] <Valen> this is spending $43Bn vs $44Bn and then you need to replace it as soon as its done basically asshats
[19:33:10] <eric_unterhausen> how many are failures?
[19:34:47] <eric_unterhausen> what's the preferred link shortener here?
[19:35:07] <andypugh> I am trying to compile a Xenomai kernel on the first one now. I am waiting for the others. One is just silly: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/920064946/oscilloscope-watch
[19:35:17] <eric_unterhausen> http://goo.gl/B7cLH2
[19:36:47] <andypugh> Deltas do have a lot going for them
[19:37:35] <eric_unterhausen> all you have to do is thread the fishing line
[19:39:32] <eric_unterhausen> I was reading about one of the maker faires a year ago that the 3d printer companies had their own pavilion
[19:39:42] <eric_unterhausen> it's a very crowded business
[19:42:23] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.com/Rule-34-Halting-State-Book/dp/1937007669/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389230739&sr=8-1&keywords=Rule+34
[19:42:39] <andypugh> Is a book largely set in a world of ubiquitous 3D-printing.
[19:43:21] <Valen> sounds interesting
[19:43:23] <Valen> you read it?
[19:43:34] <andypugh> (It's also a book, and an author I highly recommend)
[19:43:43] <uw> isnt rule 34 a 4chan thing?
[19:43:56] <Valen> xkcd i believe
[19:44:10] <andypugh> Yes, I read his books the moment they are published. A friend reads them before they are published.
[19:44:24] <uw> http://rule34.paheal.net/
[19:44:52] <uw> oh maybe xkcd did it first
[19:46:38] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_(Internet_meme)
[19:55:29] <Valen> hmmm, dunno, i'm really sensitive to the "person"age of a book
[19:55:37] <Valen> i hate anything other than 3rd person ;->
[19:56:25] <andypugh> I think that is 3rd-person
[19:56:57] <Valen> I was just reading other reviews of his other books
[19:57:11] <andypugh> I am trying to recall the second-person book I read recently... Ah, yes, Tom Robbins "Half Asleep In Frog Pyjamas"
[19:57:49] <jdh> I like Robbins
[19:59:17] <andypugh> Yes, I consider Jitterbug Perfume to be one of the best things I have read.
[20:00:04] <andypugh> Though the very best is Stevenson's "System of the World" trilogy, albeit rather slow.
[20:01:32] <andypugh> I have only failed to finish two books, "Dhalgren" (got hallf way, was having no fun) and "Ghormengast". With 3 pages to go to the end of the 3rd book I realised it was too late for anything to happen.
[20:01:35] <jdh> I rarely don't finish books, but the first one was an exception
[20:01:51] <jdh> (quicksilver)
[20:02:05] <andypugh> Try again. Really.
[20:02:35] <andypugh> Did you get to the point that Jack and Eliza turn up?
[20:02:49] <andypugh> They lighten the mood no end
[20:02:51] <jdh> doesn't ring any bells, but it's been like 10 years
[20:03:28] <andypugh> I keep wondering if there are different editions.
[20:03:51] <andypugh> Because nobody else seems to find them, and I am sure they are not that far in,
[20:04:00] <Valen> I like the old hard sci-fi
[20:04:04] <Valen> hal clement is good
[20:04:27] <andypugh> Jack is the young lad who made extra pocket money by grabbing the legs of hangings. Did you get that far?
[20:04:53] <jdh> don't think so.
[20:05:11] <jdh> I read it after crypto... couldn't take it.
[20:05:15] <jdh> s/read/started it/
[20:05:18] <andypugh> Quicksilver is _very_ old SciFi. The scientists are Newton and Leibnitz :-)
[20:05:44] <Valen> lol i mean stuff written in the 60s and such, when people were building rockets
[20:06:47] <andypugh> Well, I think you should try Quicksilver again, but accepting that it is slow, bit worth it. :-)
[20:07:55] <jdh> I got an amazon gift thingie from work. I could buy a book, or tooling.
[20:09:15] <ChuangTzu> an expensive book, or a cheap tool?
[20:09:20] <ChuangTzu> :S
[20:09:33] <jdh> $5.69 for the kindle version, I could do both.
[20:11:12] <jdh> I seem to have an .epub version on my disk.
[20:15:00] <jdh> my daughter is taking a solidworks class this semester, maybe she can teach me.
[20:15:19] <Valen> props for having a daughter doing that ;->
[20:16:17] <jdh> she always amazes me
[20:17:00] <andypugh> Is she rich and gullible too?
[20:17:29] <jdh> neither
[20:17:49] <jdh> she's smarter than me, but I still know more than her (for now)
[20:17:56] <andypugh> And I am probably twice her age too. Or more.
[20:18:09] <jdh> she's 17 you perv
[20:19:09] <andypugh> In my defence, there was no such thing as Solidowrks when I was that age.
[20:19:14] <Valen> i don't know what it is, but most of the women in engineering are lookers too so +1 for perving
[20:19:29] <jdh> there wasn't much in the way of computers when I was that age.
[20:20:02] <eric_unterhausen> I should teach my daughter how to use solidworks
[20:21:37] <Valen> I use rhino, its simple and actually affordable
[20:21:47] <andypugh> I had already sold a commercial program when I was 17.
[20:22:24] <Valen> I wrote and managed the "magic software" for an office about that age
[20:22:47] <jdh> you kids and your computers.
[20:23:11] <andypugh> (because, back then, a 14 year-old could lock themselves away for a few months and produce something impressive.
[20:23:20] <Valen> saved the sales reps about an hour and a half each per day
[20:23:49] <jdh> we got a Wang(tm) and a TRS-80 Model 1 when I was a Jr in high school
[20:25:02] <Valen> visual basic and mysql ftw ;->
[20:32:13] <andypugh> Pah! ZX80 programmed in pure hex FTW
[20:32:30] <jdh> I sometimes wish I could get enthused about writing code again, but it seems so tedious now and my attention span has dropped to almost nothing.
[20:32:36] <andypugh> (I hadn't heard of assemblers)
[20:36:16] <andypugh> Mwhaha! What could possibly go wrong? https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5966714171391240545
[20:39:23] <skunkworks> heh
[20:40:12] <andypugh> In reality I was just messsing about with the label printer :-)
[20:40:51] <andypugh> I should probably have put some fun plugs on the end. Lemo 00 and BS mains plug?
[20:42:14] <syyl--> like the famous 1" waterpipe to single phase/230V adapter?
[20:42:32] <andypugh> Or the LART?
[20:43:16] <eric_unterhausen> my mother once climbed a steel ladder in a waterfall in a cave, at the top there was a sign that said the wire right next to the ladder was 25000 volts
[20:43:23] <syyl--> i just had to look up that, andypugh
[20:43:24] <syyl--> ;)
[20:43:52] <andypugh> Ah, I seem to have my BOFH mixed up, I think I mean Etherkiller: http://etherkiller.org/img/etherkiller.jpg
[20:43:59] <syyl--> ah
[20:44:01] <syyl--> thats common
[20:44:10] <syyl--> also availble in 3phase / 400V
[20:44:11] <syyl--> ;)
[20:44:23] <eric_unterhausen> lart pocket reference
[20:44:32] <Valen> probably wouldn't do anything any favours
[20:44:51] <Valen> i saw the flux capacitor one, what was the other end?
[20:45:10] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: Well, no reason to believe that the 25kV would preferentially flow through your mother than the waterfall, ladder or cave.
[20:45:31] <eric_unterhausen> duckduckgo just got a lot more useful to me, I saw the drop-down menu that allows you to do the search on google images
[20:45:49] <eric_unterhausen> andy: ya, good thing about voltages is that you need two before it's dangerous
[20:46:07] <eric_unterhausen> in that sense, ground is just as dangerous as 25000 volts
[20:46:11] <andypugh> Or you can do the search directly on Google images
[20:46:14] <Jymmm> $25,000 but damn cool... http://trucktracks.com/en/media/action-videos/
[20:46:23] <skunkworks> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interocitor
[20:46:36] <eric_unterhausen> I like duckduckgo, they don't act as my own personal stalker
[20:47:16] <eric_unterhausen> when the transaxle on my toyota blew up, I all of a sudden started getting toyota ads because I searched for it on google
[20:47:47] <tjtr33> i have chips labeled ST M27C2001, I have to burn for Heidenhain CNC.
[20:47:47] <tjtr33> The programmer tells me they are AMD 27C202 (02h 01h). They program and verify ok. has anyone ever had chips labeled wrong ( 12pc with very std white stenciled marks )
[20:48:26] <Tom_itx> maybe it's an inhouse number
[20:48:49] <andypugh> Jymmm: This is better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBjlSJf4274
[20:49:14] <syyl--> and if you order one, you get a nice hat with it
[20:49:44] <tjtr33> dunno, i've done a lot of these and they are the 'standard' look, text, placement, white on grey-brown ceramic
[20:50:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: looks like more fun too
[20:50:53] <andypugh> Well, colder at least, and no radio
[20:51:15] <Valen> tjtr33: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395
[20:51:37] <andypugh> 02:50 Horsey no like
[20:51:44] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, would you attempt to put them into a machine & boot ( cuz they verify even after reboot ) or chuck em?
[20:52:10] <tjtr33> Valen, wow, acid reverse engineering
[20:53:03] <Tom_itx> tjtr33 did they come out of the machine?
[20:53:07] <Tom_itx> i'd try them if they did
[20:53:13] <ChuangTzu> haha, that turning radius part
[20:53:16] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, ebay :(
[20:53:18] <ChuangTzu> looks like he's having a blast
[20:53:36] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, very new, legs clean & splayed
[20:54:08] <tjtr33> i never ran into this before and gotta drive 650miles to try em out :(
[20:54:11] <andypugh> tjtr33: I would use them. I wouldn't sell them.
[20:54:33] <tjtr33> ah good thinking, thx i'll order new and delay the visit, thx
[21:00:33] <eric_unterhausen> so I assume there are companies in China that will supply you any chip you are looking for as long as you don't care what's inside?
[21:02:52] <Tom_itx> eric_unterhausen, what would you like to buy? https://www.google.com/search?q=shenzhen+market&client=firefox-a&hs=Yam&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=SC2uGopbQ5cu-M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTju0HSyqxh6G9BD9AqAnCQgj8V8F8e01C4mMFtKdGjpdGF5nJA5g%253B600%253B400%253BVZv6yChxH66ZjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fdangerousprototypes.com%25252Fdocs%25252FDangerous_P
[21:03:03] <Tom_itx> wow sry about the long link
[21:03:19] <eric_unterhausen> Tom, I was talking about the sparkfun link above
[21:03:32] <eric_unterhausen> they wanted 7000 atmegas, and got fakes
[21:03:34] <Tom_itx> i've seen the copper slugs before
[21:03:53] <eric_unterhausen> my question is did the supplier just run out and produce the fakes as a special order?
[21:05:09] <skunkworks> is it a fake if it is something totally different? why go to the trouble. that just seems odd. why not just make some with nothing inside.
[21:05:32] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, they've done that too
[21:05:33] <eric_unterhausen> I thought they got them surplus
[21:07:02] <eric_unterhausen> I re-read, the chips were engineering units
[21:07:20] <eric_unterhausen> they probably got them for scrap price, i.e. a few cents
[21:08:19] <andypugh> Right, so made ahead of production for testing assembly lines?
[21:09:05] <andypugh> Rather like the 2015 Mondeo I have been driving since 2012.
[21:09:33] <eric_unterhausen> I would rather have a pre-production chip than a pre-production car
[21:09:48] <jdh> not for free
[21:09:57] <andypugh> Well, it sounds like the car actually works, and the chip doesn't?
[21:10:21] <eric_unterhausen> the chip probably did work if you knew which chip it was
[21:11:36] <andypugh> I was assuming they were the carrier-only slugs that Tom_itx mentioned. That was probably an over-assumption.
[21:12:25] <Tom_itx> eric_unterhausen i didn't click but the pics i saw would definitely not work
[21:12:42] <eric_unterhausen> that was after they tore the top off?
[21:12:56] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:13:10] <eric_unterhausen> well, they bought 7000 more that didn't have the top torn off
[21:14:15] <eric_unterhausen> actually, they sold them all, I have no idea how much they charged
[21:14:38] <andypugh> No reason to take the top off: http://www.nordson.com/EN-US/DIVISIONS/DAGE/PRODUCTS/EXAMPLEPRODUCTFAMILY/Pages/SpecialInvitation.aspx
[21:14:46] <andypugh> You can see inside nowadays
[21:15:06] <andypugh> (I helped design the X-ray tue for that)
[21:15:09] <andypugh> (tube)
[21:15:13] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[21:15:28] <eric_unterhausen> but I think the copper heatsink would screw it up pretty well
[21:15:49] <andypugh> Not at 160kV
[21:16:02] <andypugh> Those are _hard_ X-ray machines
[21:16:49] <tjtr33> is there a min order at Hamilton Avnet ( i doubt i
[21:16:56] <tjtr33> 'd get fakes there )
[21:17:26] <eric_unterhausen> most of the big distributors have service charges to discourage small orders
[21:17:36] <eric_unterhausen> but afaik, they will take the order
[21:17:38] <andypugh> I seem to recall calculating that if you climbed into that X-ray machine and turned the beam on then there would be no saving you in less than a minute
[21:21:52] <eric_unterhausen> that's interesting, see everyone else is going to lower power xrays
[21:22:28] <andypugh> Why would you?
[21:23:38] <eric_unterhausen> so you don't kill the patient in less than 1 minute
[21:24:15] <andypugh> You meant everyone else outside electronic component testing?
[21:25:07] <eric_unterhausen> I would guess there are some other people that want horribly powerful xrays
[21:25:14] <andypugh> This is a slightly boring video, but does explain what the systems can do: http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/dage/products/PublishingImages/X-Plane%20Introduction.wmv
[21:27:01] <andypugh> It's basically a CT scan of a PCB
[21:28:32] <andypugh> pretty pictures start at 07:30 in the video
[21:28:51] <Tom_itx> does it affect the chips?
[21:28:56] <andypugh> Not at all
[21:30:02] <Tom_itx> hrm. i was gonna start reading up on classic ladder but i can see that isn't gonna happen tonight
[21:32:48] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: it isn't bad... It takes a bit to get used to the gui - you really just need to play with it.
[21:33:22] <Tom_itx> well i was gonna try to convert some of my pendant code
[21:33:28] <Tom_itx> see if it works better in ladder
[21:33:35] <jdh> Can't be any worse than the GE Series Six I had to touch today.
[21:34:38] <Tom_itx> what do you run to start the gui?