#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-01-03

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[02:32:36] <Deejay> moin
[02:49:39] <uw> moin Deejay
[03:02:03] <Deejay> hi uw
[03:22:02] <RyanS> Ever heard of a German tool brand 'CoCaCo'?
[03:24:49] <skroon> good morning all
[03:40:05] <uw> bye Deejay
[05:34:03] <jthornton> wow 15 stone this morning
[05:44:40] <archivist> of pure fat/muscle/bone ?
[05:50:21] <jthornton> very little fat left, it seems to wear away the more you work
[05:54:14] <archivist> when you get to the bones rattling stage it may be wise to stop :)
[05:55:00] <jthornton> lol, I plan on stopping before that
[05:55:44] <jthornton> shooting for 14 stone ish
[07:17:33] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: i am more like 17 stone... and rising
[07:17:41] <Loetmichel> and theres a bit ore of fat ;-)
[07:18:43] <Loetmichel> +m
[07:20:23] <Loetmichel> grrr
[07:20:32] <Loetmichel> jthornton
[07:21:08] <Deejay> i think jthornton und JT-Shop are one and the same person ;)
[07:22:42] <jthornton> I think so too
[07:22:47] <Deejay> ;)
[07:22:53] <Deejay> split personality ;)
[07:22:58] <jthornton> lol
[07:23:08] <Deejay> we are three people here: me, myself and I
[07:23:15] <Deejay> ;)
[07:23:32] <jthornton> cogito ergo sum
[07:24:57] <Deejay> :)
[07:25:16] <jthornton> Loetmichel, I was 17.5 stone at one time
[07:30:14] <eric_unterhausen> do you have a scale that measures in "stone"?
[07:31:15] <jthornton> no, I have a calculator
[07:31:30] <jthornton> do scales in UK read in stone?
[07:31:40] <archivist> yes
[07:32:29] <archivist> although new imported scales may be in kellogs
[07:54:22] <R2E4_> http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show%3F21301285353227&prev=/search%3Fq%3D27BA050%26espv%3D210%26es_sm%3D122
[07:54:48] <R2E4_> I have 4 of these, at 6000.00, I will let them go for 10,000.00 for all 4....lol
[07:57:39] <R2E4_> I just want the damn manuals.
[08:05:29] <Jymmm> R2E4_: Found the manuals!
[08:06:12] <Jymmm> R2E4_: Will let them go for $15,000 =)
[08:06:47] <R2E4_> I would need to sell the drives to buy the manuals.
[08:06:57] <R2E4_> Then what would I need the manuals for?
[08:07:15] <Jymmm> Nostalga?
[08:09:00] <R2E4_> it sucks, Sanyodenki wont return my emails, cannot find these manuals anywhere and I cannot do anything else on my project without these manuals.
[08:09:28] <Jymmm> Can you post a pic of the label?
[08:11:05] <R2E4_> I dont have the pics of it with me, I do have the actual manual in japaneese right here in front of me.
[08:11:24] <Jymmm> Do you have an android phone?
[08:11:38] <R2E4_> iphone
[08:12:17] <Jymmm> Well, see if you can install google translate, it will let you take a photo and translate
[08:14:42] <R2E4_> its installing
[08:16:40] <eric_unterhausen> I have the sanyo denki manuals on a hard drive
[08:16:56] <eric_unterhausen> unfortunately, I'm not sure which one
[08:17:05] <eric_unterhausen> they used to call me occasionally
[08:18:12] <sanyo_denki_sale> you d/l some manuals from our site, can I sell you something expensive?
[08:18:30] <eric_unterhausen> I just wanted to know if I should buy some drives off of ebay
[08:19:19] <eric_unterhausen> same thing happened with bijur
[08:22:25] <R2E4_> Someone must have this manual....
[08:24:54] <Jymmm> R2E4_: installed yet?
[08:25:34] <eric_unterhausen> it used to be possible to d/l, you just had to register on the site
[08:26:07] <Jymmm> http://www.sanyo-denki.com/servo_manuals.aspx
[08:26:37] <eric_unterhausen> looks like current products
[08:26:43] <eric_unterhausen> you need opsolete products
[08:27:05] <Jymmm> *I* don't =)
[08:27:20] <eric_unterhausen> if you want the $15000
[08:27:42] <Jymmm> lol
[08:28:15] <Jymmm> Nah, I need 302/304 FH SS sheet 0.010"
[08:28:33] <eric_unterhausen> what's the fh part?
[08:28:36] <Jymmm> #4 Finish
[08:28:40] <R2E4_> They dont list the BL Super line
[08:28:43] <Jymmm> Full Hard
[08:28:49] <eric_unterhausen> okey
[08:29:11] <eric_unterhausen> how do you cut full hard 304?
[08:29:27] <Jymmm> scissors?
[08:29:36] <Jymmm> It's only 10mil
[08:29:52] <eric_unterhausen> somehow my mind translated that to .1
[08:29:58] <Jymmm> ah
[08:30:09] <eric_unterhausen> too much working in millimeters
[08:30:40] <eric_unterhausen> and yes, it still doesn't make sense in millimeters
[08:32:41] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/files/sanyo-denki.jpg theres the drives
[08:43:37] <JT-Shop> CN1 and CN2 go to the servo?
[08:45:15] <R2E4_> CN2 go to the servos
[08:46:15] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/sanyodenkibl827.pdf
[08:46:57] <R2E4_> RGSO is the drive enable. IT shows a contact, so you think all i need to do is provide a contact to enable the drive?
[08:47:30] <R2E4_> I need to find out what VTG, 15G IA and IVTG1 are....
[08:47:39] <archivist> you could do some tracing of wires with a meter
[08:48:15] <R2E4_> IT goes to the controller, I know where they go.
[08:48:24] <R2E4_> I just dont know what they do
[08:48:48] <archivist> do you have the controller docs
[08:49:38] <R2E4_> yes, it doesnt get down to that level though. I have all the wiring for the controller and machine also.
[08:49:53] <R2E4_> I am really close but before I rip anything apart I need to find out
[08:49:53] <archivist> things like the enables may be connected together
[08:50:30] <archivist> wire names can be a good clue on the wiring diagram
[08:52:00] <archivist> you can also run it and scope the signals
[08:52:19] <R2E4_> The wires that go from the drives to the controller are multi-pair wire.CN1, goes to a connector on the controller
[08:52:29] <R2E4_> yeah......
[08:53:33] <R2E4_> I am also worried about phase, there are in the controller screen etc that talks about AB phase and sections limited to that, which I do not know what that does.
[08:54:52] <archivist> encoder AB?
[08:58:38] <R2E4_> yeah I think thats what it is
[08:59:24] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/schematics1.pdf
[09:00:21] <Jymmm> R2E4_: Did yu get google translate installed?
[09:00:39] <R2E4_> yeah, it wouldnt take a pic as an input
[09:01:01] <R2E4_> That last doc, makes it look simple.....
[09:01:16] <Jymmm> Ah, time to get rid of that iphone =)
[09:01:33] <R2E4_> haha, yeah
[09:01:58] <Jymmm> It surprisingly works well for taking/using a photo to translate
[09:02:05] <R2E4_> OH1, OH2 overheat output of servo amp......
[09:02:17] <R2E4_> With an android?
[09:02:22] <Jymmm> yeah
[09:02:41] <R2E4_> I have a few I copuld borrow
[09:03:24] <R2E4_> So I wont have to touch CN2, just CN1 and CN5 on the controller
[09:04:09] <R2E4_> Tach goes into servo amp. What exactly does the amp use that data for?
[09:04:20] <archivist> differential signals on the encoder
[09:06:19] <R2E4_> So the control knows where it told the axis to go, the motor moved and the confirmation of the move gets sent to the controller via encoder.
[09:06:45] <R2E4_> If there is an error, what would linuxcnc do with the diff signal?
[09:07:54] <archivist> which diff
[09:08:29] <R2E4_> the diff between what the controller told it to move and what it actually moved, (from encoder)
[09:09:35] <archivist> the loop in linuxcnc sees the error and moves the axis accordingly
[09:10:05] <R2E4_> Thats what I thought, but I have heard others speak differently about it.
[09:10:32] <R2E4_> IT knows where it is suppose to be, if its not, it sends it there.
[09:10:49] <archivist> it is a continuous process
[09:13:12] <JT-Shop> $58 for a tiny replacement stove grating!
[09:13:34] <archivist> cast in USA or cast in china
[09:14:08] <R2E4_> or cast in backyard
[09:14:17] <archivist> stoves are expensive here too, so I am cold
[09:14:38] <mozmck> Even a used one?
[09:16:05] <archivist> yes used are silly prices and often broken
[09:20:54] <R2E4_> What does a cutting monitor do? beside monitor cutting.....lol
[09:46:45] <JT-Shop> made in USA
[09:48:12] <jdh> <- me too
[10:01:08] <PetefromTn> me three...LOL
[10:01:24] <jdh> hey pete, how's the weather over there?
[10:01:50] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/schematics1.pdf pins 4 and 3 on CN1 of servo amp I would think is the PWM from a 7i77.just below that there is a velocity control.
[10:03:19] <R2E4_> to control the speed of the axis?
[10:03:53] <R2E4_> I thought that would be in the pwm signal
[10:08:51] <JT-Shop> term 4 & 3 say Velocity Command Voltage term 25 & 21 say Velocity Control On
[10:09:26] <R2E4_> yeah
[10:37:35] <PetefromTn> jdh: sorry man was distracted. IT"S FREAKIN' COLD!!!
[10:37:56] <PetefromTn> was about 16 this morning.. But it is supposed to warm up during the day.
[10:39:28] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/01/03/mitsubishi-enters-american-3d-printing-market-metal-3d-printer-platform-matsuura-machinery/
[10:39:54] <CaptHindsight> $845,946 a single machine platform that combines metal laser sintering with high-speed milling allowing for the production of very precise parts to tight tolerances up to 25 x 25 x 18 cm .
[10:41:23] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn: 16F we won't be above 0 most of next week
[10:41:39] <PetefromTn> my sympathies friend LOL
[10:42:14] <PetefromTn> Like I said I want to sell my house and move to where a COLD day is 50 degrees.....FLORIDA!!
[10:44:08] <skunkworks> -25 by monday
[10:44:22] <skunkworks> suposidly..
[10:44:40] <PetefromTn> Holy smokes where do you live antartica?
[10:44:44] <CaptHindsight> yeah high of -16F or so
[10:44:45] <syyl_ws> 25F?
[10:44:53] <syyl_ws> -25F?
[10:45:01] <skunkworks> -25f
[10:45:08] <CaptHindsight> yeah, upper midwest
[10:45:14] <skunkworks> yep
[10:45:17] <syyl_ws> ok, -25C are cold
[10:45:17] <CaptHindsight> IL, Wi, Mi
[10:45:25] <syyl_ws> but -25F are freaking cold :D
[10:45:39] <CaptHindsight> -16C right now
[10:45:52] <PetefromTn> yeah um screw that noise... I think I will stay in the south LOL
[10:46:14] <CaptHindsight> -32C monday
[10:46:50] <CaptHindsight> and we just had 12" of snow (31cm)
[10:47:07] <PetefromTn> We were SUPPOSED to have snow but only got some flurries.
[10:48:28] <PetefromTn> At least if it snowed we could go out and enjoy the cold a bit but now it is just crappy. At least it is sunny today oh well. Heating up the shop right now to get some work done. Slept in some LOL
[10:48:29] <CaptHindsight> it's actually warmer in Canada
[10:52:10] <CaptHindsight> we still had 90+ days into September and now this
[11:00:35] <PetefromTn> talk later guys. have a nice day.
[11:14:42] <Gigs-> 60mph winds here last night
[11:15:09] <Gigs-> woke me up because it sounded like the siding was going to come off, went to the bathroom and the water in the bowl was going boing boing
[11:15:29] <Gigs-> so powerful it was drawing vacuum on the plumbing vents
[11:15:35] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/01/03/afinia-puts-dukes-defend-stratasys-lawsuit/ patent lawsuits over FDM
[11:15:49] <CaptHindsight> Gigs-: we get there here as well
[11:16:09] <CaptHindsight> there/that
[11:16:24] <Gigs-> yeah crazy little winter storm
[11:17:07] <CaptHindsight> like being on a ship
[11:17:40] <Gigs-> re the link the USPTO is going downhill again
[11:18:06] <Gigs-> for a little while it looked like they were going to shape up, then someone sent me a link the other day to a recently granted patent for a bouyancy perpetual motion machine
[11:20:15] <Gigs-> not even a very clever one, just bouyant balls falling down, being inserted into the bottom of a column of water, and floating back up
[11:22:38] <skunkworks> wait - that would work!
[11:22:49] <skunkworks> ;)
[11:23:11] <CaptHindsight> you just have to keep feeding it balls by hand
[11:23:24] <mozmck> Might be hard to find prior art on that one though...
[11:23:52] <Gigs-> I'm sure there's even similar patents issued from back when it wasn't the uspto's policy not to grant perpetual motion patents
[11:24:17] <Gigs-> it's a pretty "classic" design ... probably first thought of in the 1500s or even earlier
[11:24:38] <Gigs-> at the latest, the renaissance
[11:24:42] <CaptHindsight> perpetual patent machine
[11:24:45] <mozmck> askpatents.com
[11:25:01] <mozmck> saw this the other day and it looks interesting.
[11:25:31] <Gigs-> yeah, it's been around a while, it's a good idea but apparently it's not completely working
[11:25:59] <mozmck> I don't know, I read about it here: http://joelonsoftware.com/
[11:26:21] <Gigs-> related there's also some open libraries of prior art
[11:26:40] <Gigs-> funded by the big guys that have thousands of patents ironically
[11:27:09] <Gigs-> there's some things IBM or ITT might not want to patent, but they want to get prior art documented to prevent anyone else from patenting
[11:27:21] <mozmck> makes sense
[11:28:15] <CaptHindsight> A giant silicon valley "fruit" co just filed for a patent for something we are building for them and have been building for years
[11:28:35] <CaptHindsight> lots of prior art
[11:28:38] <Gigs-> the major problem in my mind is that the USPTO seems to "default to issue"... but really I think very few patents should actually be issued
[11:29:21] <CaptHindsight> the definition of "obvious" has been made very specific for the USPTO
[11:29:25] <mozmck> From the site I just linked: "The number of actually novel, non-obvious inventions in the software industry that maybe, in some universe, deserve a government-granted monopoly is, perhaps, two."
[11:29:47] <Gigs-> even just watching Shark Tank on TV... you see startups holding ridiculous patents sometimes
[11:30:22] <Gigs-> Mark Cuban tore into someone who had a patent on channels in clothing to run earphone wires through, that was nice to see at least
[11:30:38] <CaptHindsight> heh
[11:30:44] <Gigs-> since that idea has been around for ages and at least two of the investors had been making similar products for years
[11:31:59] <CaptHindsight> plus there are tons of overlapping patents
[11:32:07] <Gigs-> in the EU it's much harder to patent software (or at least it was), they used to require that the software patent only be in the context of a business method
[11:32:25] <CaptHindsight> the attitude is to grant and let the courts decide
[11:32:26] <Gigs-> you couldn't patent say a wavelet codec, you could only patent using a wavelet codec to send x-rays etc
[11:33:58] <Gigs-> I think that's a good example, the first guy who figured out how to do wavelet perceptual lossy codecs should have probably gotten a patent... but every tiny variation on it shouldn't get its own patent
[11:35:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6994809.html this was filed just to show how silly this has become
[11:35:25] <Gigs-> is that the swing
[11:35:29] <Gigs-> oh
[11:35:35] <CaptHindsight> patching a hole
[11:35:48] <Gigs-> yeah some guy patented swinging a playground swing sideways
[11:35:57] <CaptHindsight> lol
[11:36:20] <Gigs-> there's also "method for excersizing a cat" which as far as anyone can tell, was a serious patent
[11:36:31] <Gigs-> it basically says point a laser around the room
[11:37:03] <jdh> my wife got some cat games for her iPad... the cat loves them.
[11:37:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0270152.html Patent Acquisition and Assertion by a (Non-Inventor) First Party Against a Second Party
[11:37:35] <CaptHindsight> filed by haliburton :)
[11:37:46] <Gigs-> yeah they patented patent trolling
[11:38:43] <Gigs-> I "invented" a sort of pin gauge... people have wrote me to ask if it's patented
[11:39:06] <Gigs-> mixed feelings there since I really don't think it should be patentable, but part of me knows the USPTO would probably approve it anyway
[11:39:42] <CaptHindsight> when I tell these stories to people in China they ask "Doesn't this just breed laziness?"
[11:40:01] <Gigs-> "Method and apparatus for determining the diameter and depth of small holes"
[11:40:05] <CaptHindsight> it's good to be the king
[11:40:20] <Gigs-> well it's an alien concept in China, where ripping people off is not considered wrong
[11:40:53] <Gigs-> a good quality knock-off is something to be proud of in China
[11:42:21] <mozmck> A knock off is not theft (ripping off).
[11:42:41] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[11:42:42] <Gigs-> meh, just consider it an expression
[11:43:05] <IchGuckLive> its a storm over head here in germany
[11:43:26] <mozmck> It might be "legally speaking", infringement of a government granted monopoly though.
[11:43:26] <Gigs-> I bet you have a word for that too
[11:43:38] <Gigs-> deuschstormoverheaden
[11:43:41] <mozmck> :)
[11:43:57] <IchGuckLive> someone in the USA affected by the winterstorms
[11:44:10] <Gigs-> just got a lot of wind here in the southeast
[11:44:33] <mozmck> Not here in texas, just too cold (22F last night)
[11:44:34] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: 30cm of snow and -30C
[11:44:50] <IchGuckLive> i got +15
[11:45:04] <Gigs-> mozmck: yeah I get that argument but in general in the US we do have a cultural aversion to "taking people's work", in that things like plagarism are even a concept
[11:45:11] <IchGuckLive> no snow for this winter as to count
[11:45:26] <Gigs-> much different cultural attitudes toward that sort of thing in china
[11:45:45] <mozmck> Gigs-: yes, you can even be sued for plagarizing your own writings! pretty neat...
[11:46:05] <CaptHindsight> lots of factories in China operate making the actual product during the day and then after hours so "extra" parts get made that always fall off the trucks
[11:46:27] <Gigs-> on Wikipedia we give people copyright warnings for posting their own work that they published elsewhere first, that sucks... they never understand and just think we are crazy
[11:46:43] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: THATS the fun part that makes the profit
[11:47:13] <CaptHindsight> it's fun finding sneakers with 3 different logos on them, all made in the legit factory but assembled elsewhere
[11:47:17] <mozmck> that is crazy if someone else does not hold the copyright.
[11:47:35] <IchGuckLive> im looking for spareparts of a China Geenrator
[11:47:43] <Gigs-> mozmck: we have no way of knowing whether the wikipedia user is the same person unless they provide evidence
[11:47:59] <IchGuckLive> there are so many exact the same but noeone has parts
[11:48:14] <Gigs-> mozmck: as well a lot of the time it's stuff they did as part of their job and people don't realize that work generated as an employee almost always winds up copyright to the company not to them personally
[11:48:29] <mozmck> interesting. Oh, well, I despise copyright and patents in general.
[11:48:50] <mozmck> Yes, and most publishers "own" the authors works too.
[11:48:58] <Gigs-> yeah so it gets sticky fast
[11:49:27] <Gigs-> patents would be OK by me if they were much more selective about issuing them
[11:49:34] <Gigs-> at least they don't last too long
[11:49:50] <mozmck> Probably so. Copyrights would be better if they only lasted the original 14 years.
[11:49:53] <Gigs-> copyright is basically forever
[11:50:05] <Gigs-> yeah 14-20 years or whatnot would be fine for copyright
[11:50:55] <jdh> I need an oxygen analyzer that will measure 0-5ppm O2 in helium. Any suggestions?
[11:51:09] <Gigs-> whew, that's low
[11:51:20] <jdh> well, 0-50ppm, but accurate down to at least 5
[11:52:20] <Gigs-> what's your budget? I have the feeling you are in the pricey industrial range
[11:52:37] <jdh> less than $10k would be good
[11:52:57] <Gigs-> check Omega sensors
[11:53:02] <CaptHindsight> jdh: under what conditions?
[11:53:38] <jdh> Capt: pre-weld, room temp, clean gas
[11:54:04] <Gigs-> it might be easier to just add oxygen absorbers
[11:54:15] <CaptHindsight> jdh: working with aluminum?
[11:54:32] <jdh> Capt: something like that. Reactive metals anyway
[11:55:01] <Gigs-> http://www.aoi-corp.com/products/trace_oxygen_analyzers/series_3000/
[11:55:13] <Gigs-> something like this guy
[11:55:42] <Gigs-> but a gas line trap with pyrophoric iron oxide would probably burn off trace oxygen for eons at those concentrations
[11:56:09] <CaptHindsight> molecular sieve
[11:56:38] <Gigs-> heh I go low tech you go super high tech
[11:57:05] <jdh> the helium itself is pure enough. It is welding in an enclosed box. Also needs a cooldown area
[11:58:35] <Gigs-> you could do a little circuit off the box through the oxygen reactor/adsorber to keep the atmosphere in there clean
[11:58:54] <CaptHindsight> sintering reactive metals has the same conditions and problems
[12:00:13] <jdh> inserting/removing parts always allows a little atmosphere in, even with positive pressure.
[12:00:44] <Gigs-> I don't know how much the box I linked to is, but I suspect it's probably right around 10k
[12:00:59] <CaptHindsight> can you have more that one airlock?
[12:01:07] <CaptHindsight> 2+ stages
[12:01:08] <Gigs-> he's talking PPM
[12:01:09] <jdh> not really.
[12:06:03] <Gigs-> as expensive as helium is an oxygen scavenger system is probably going to be cheaper in the long run if you currently just flush until your levels drop
[12:06:26] <Gigs-> as long as you don't mind the small levels of nitrogen
[12:06:44] <jdh> nitrogen embrittlement
[12:06:56] <Gigs-> even at a few ppm?
[12:07:05] <jdh> dunno about that low
[12:07:49] <jdh> oxygen scavenging would be good from a process perspective, but I still have to measure.
[12:08:00] <Gigs-> yeah if it's critical you'll need both
[12:08:33] <Gigs-> http://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/products/Model-6410-Oxygen-Absorbing-Purifiers.pdf
[12:08:56] <Gigs-> all this is is a metal tube filled with pyrophoric iron just like those "hot hands" things or the packets in jerky
[12:09:07] <Gigs-> and I'm sure they sell it for oodles of money.. I'm in the wrong business
[12:09:22] <Cylly> re @ home
[12:09:24] <Gigs-> but if it's critical, there's an off the shelf product you can use
[12:36:42] <Gigs-> , Kushner is planning on renovating a townhouse located in Greenwich Village for a single family�s use, incorporating a 75 foot high climbing wall, and hopes to be the first home principally built utilizing 3D printing techniques
[12:36:46] <Gigs-> mmm
[12:37:07] <Gigs-> I don't think I'd climb that wall
[12:42:26] <IchGuckLive> i printed here the hole day on a HP designjet 3D and i trust those parts
[12:45:25] <Gigs-> it's still ABS
[12:46:07] <andypugh> I trusted ABS as a motorcycle helmet for years.
[12:46:35] <Gigs-> a motorcycle helmet is supposed to break
[12:47:06] <andypugh> No, it isn't.
[12:47:49] <andypugh> The foam liner is meant to compress. The shell is meant to remain intact to hold the foam liner in place.
[12:48:08] <R2E4_> If the helmet won't break under the force then your head will.
[12:48:32] <andypugh> That's just bollocks.
[12:48:39] <Gigs-> well yeah it's not supposed to shatter or crumble
[12:48:52] <Gigs-> but they don't make them out of steel for a reason :P
[12:49:16] <andypugh> Mainly weight. And rust.
[12:49:38] <R2E4_> Whats the popint of the helmet if it doesnt take the impact?
[12:49:45] <Gigs-> now I want a brushed titanium helmet even though I never ride a bike
[12:49:51] <R2E4_> ITs the same priciple as the safer barrier in Nascar no?
[12:49:58] <andypugh> When I retired the plastic hat (bought a fibreglass one) I tried to smash it with a sleghammer. I failed.
[12:50:36] <andypugh> A helmet is made of two parts. A tough, resilient shell and a sfot, deformable foam liner.
[12:51:18] <andypugh> The foam liner absorbs the impact. The shell holds the whle thing together, spreads the load and protects against penetrating injuries.
[12:51:45] <andypugh> This is a subject I know a fait bit about. I used to work in crash testing.
[12:51:56] <Jymmm> ...as the dummy ;)
[12:52:06] <Gigs-> ok ok maybe I was off base, but your helmet wasn't 3d printed
[12:52:24] <andypugh> Jymmm: SHhh!
[12:52:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: (sorry, couldn't resist ')
[12:53:29] <archivist> I tested mine on a corner once :)
[12:53:34] <R2E4_> impact-absorbing liner
[12:53:52] <Jymmm> archivist: and the bike?
[12:54:18] <archivist> jumped back on and continued the journey
[12:54:25] <Jymmm> I tested my helmet on the asphalt once
[12:54:51] <archivist> I just rolled around on a grassy verge
[12:55:14] <Jymmm> It survived, my leather boots got a hole via friction burn them though
[12:55:22] <Jymmm> in^
[12:56:45] <R2E4_> Both the shell and the liner compress if hit hard, spreading the forces
[12:56:45] <R2E4_> of impact throughout the helmet material. The more impact-energy
[12:56:45] <R2E4_> deflected or absorbed, the less there is of it to reach your head and
[12:56:45] <R2E4_> brain and do damage. Some helmet shells delaminate on impact.
[12:56:45] <R2E4_> Others may crack and break if forced to take a severe hit; this is one
[12:56:46] <R2E4_> way a helmet acts to absorb shock. It is doing its intended job. Impact
[12:56:46] <R2E4_> damage from a crash to the non-resilient liner may be invisible to the
[12:56:47] <R2E4_> eye; it may look normal, but it may have little protective value left and
[12:56:47] <R2E4_> should be replaced.
[12:57:13] <R2E4_> I guess both voices could be right.
[12:57:40] <R2E4_> Thats from http://msf-usa.org/downloads/helmet_CSI.pdf
[12:58:16] <andypugh> The shell will often be damaged during a crash. But it isn't _necessary_ that it be damaged in order for the helmet to do the job. And that was the statement I was objecting to.
[12:58:49] <R2E4_> yeah your right
[12:59:08] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hrhr, tell me about it
[12:59:18] <Loetmichel> i have destroyed about 10 helmets to date
[12:59:32] <Loetmichel> and still my head ist where it belongs ;-)
[12:59:38] <Jymmm> http://www.viralnova.com/embarrassed-son/
[13:01:10] <R2E4_> haha
[13:01:16] <IchGuckLive> is in the USA To use Helmets the law
[13:01:32] <IchGuckLive> or does police do nothing if you pass them without
[13:01:33] <Loetmichel> my newes helmet: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14355
[13:01:46] <Loetmichel> ... i dont like the closed ones ;-)
[13:02:26] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: Happy new Year
[13:02:37] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: wir haben ieen 3d drucker bekommen
[13:02:39] <Loetmichel> to you, too
[13:02:54] <andypugh> I prefer full-face after a hailstone-related crash in an open-face when I was 16.
[13:02:55] <Loetmichel> so use it to make another one ;-)
[13:03:20] <andypugh> (The pain caused by the hailstones caused the crash)
[13:03:24] <Deejay> re
[13:03:31] <Loetmichel> archivist: dou are not supposed to brake with your chin ;-)
[13:03:46] <Loetmichel> you
[13:03:54] <Loetmichel> ok, that i can relate to
[13:04:08] <Loetmichel> but my motorcycle is just 50ccm
[13:04:09] <archivist> I forgot a bend :)
[13:04:14] <andypugh> du bist night mit der chin gefehnen!
[13:04:30] <Loetmichel> so at about 35mph the hailstones are not THAT hard ;-)
[13:04:35] <andypugh> (See, I told you I didn't speak German :-)
[13:05:25] <Loetmichel> what souod that pseudo-german tell me?
[13:05:34] <andypugh> (Hmm, I think I tried to make a german word out of French, there, actually)
[13:05:35] <Loetmichel> say it in english, please?
[13:06:52] <andypugh> Loetmichel: You already said it in English.
[13:07:20] <Loetmichel> andypugh: my little "moped": http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14283
[13:07:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14280
[13:07:43] <Loetmichel> ah, that would be: "Du sollst nicht mit dem Kinn bremsen!"
[13:07:52] <Loetmichel> in german
[13:08:29] <andypugh> Yeah, I remembered "Bremmstrahlung" just after typing my version.
[13:09:12] <andypugh> My Bike: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UlvzurQu3pBpLs3XMDh_NNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[13:09:24] <Loetmichel> my worst free flight was with a friend on a tuned BMW k100
[13:09:34] <Loetmichel> at night on the autobahn
[13:09:52] <Loetmichel> a lorry had lost a 4 by 4
[13:10:03] <Loetmichel> and we did hit it at 110mph
[13:10:05] <andypugh> Hmm, I can see that a tuned K100 might just about be fast enough to get out of its own way. :-)
[13:10:19] <Loetmichel> -> 50m flight, 80m sliding on the tarmac
[13:10:37] <andypugh> Ah, yeah, it's best to stay on the bike, I have found.
[13:10:59] * Jymmm lol @ andypugh
[13:11:42] <Loetmichel> andypugh: although the k100 had 345kg it wasnt that fast: the rpm limiter kicked in at 11500 rpm being 290kmh... ;-)
[13:11:46] <R2E4_> http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0708_rekindling_the_thrill_of_motorcycling/photo_01.html
[13:11:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: at least when it's vertical that is.
[13:12:37] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i used do commute to work on a scooter.
[13:12:43] <Loetmichel> 45km
[13:12:46] <Loetmichel> one way
[13:12:48] <Loetmichel> summer and winter
[13:13:09] <Loetmichel> i have lost count how often i had hit the ground in winter ;)
[13:13:11] <CaptHindsight> uphill both ways? :)
[13:13:39] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: at -10°c on a 50ccm scooteer it feels that way after nearly an hour of drive ;-)
[13:13:59] <Loetmichel> with this little bugger: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3794
[13:14:51] <CaptHindsight> I used to have a 50cc 2-cycle motorized skateboard. I could hit 55mph running nitromethane
[13:15:07] <Loetmichel> the aluminum box on tha back served a dual pourpose: for once it could carry to boxes of coca cola, second it spared me from painting the plastic sides over and over after the "accidents"
[13:15:53] <archivist> one accident should train the rider to be careful
[13:16:15] <Loetmichel> because piaggio had (for unkown reason) decided to use WHITE plastic parts and paint them black
[13:16:21] <andypugh> I crashed my FJ1100 4 times on one miserable journey (fresh snow on top of, and hiding, icy ruts)
[13:16:26] <Loetmichel> archivist: in fall: not happening
[13:16:53] <Loetmichel> wet leaves, first snow, careless driver ;-)
[13:17:39] <Loetmichel> the "new" old gilera i have now is more my age than a plastic scooter i think
[13:18:07] <andypugh> Policy decision, I am writing off the living-room carpet and I will replace it with some hard flooring more suited to my lifestyle once I have finished assembling the lathe and cabinet.
[13:18:16] <CaptHindsight> you know it's slippery when your Spyder ends up on its side
[13:18:19] <Loetmichel> and its MUCH faster ( about 75 kmph on the plain) than its allowd to be ;-)
[13:18:36] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[13:18:44] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: you mean the porsche?
[13:18:51] <Loetmichel> how did you do THAT?
[13:19:11] <CaptHindsight> http://can-am.brp.com/spyder/
[13:19:16] <CaptHindsight> not me
[13:19:32] <Loetmichel> ah, that thing
[13:19:57] <CaptHindsight> the kids around here amaze me at how often then end up upside down next to the road
[13:21:13] <andypugh> Help! I am turning into a freak! I just washed my dead-blow hammer.
[13:21:22] <CaptHindsight> 4 kids in a new Mustang passed me doing >90mph, 4 miles later I saw the bottom of their car with the wheels still spinning
[13:21:55] <archivist> andypugh, its the woodwork that causes that disease
[13:22:00] <CaptHindsight> on flat dry highway
[13:22:42] <mozmck> heh, woodwork and metal work in the same shop - quite a pain both ways.
[13:23:14] <CaptHindsight> what do you guys do, put up tents around the machines?
[13:23:22] <archivist> woodwork and pallets http://www.laguitarsales.com/pages/3157/Taylor_Custom_Shop_Pallet.htm
[13:24:26] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNZCZsHJIR8 <. and i thought I am a crazy driver ;-)
[13:24:26] <mozmck> I have put a cover my wife made of denim over my metal lathe, but it doesn't always stay there.
[13:25:02] <mozmck> I wipe the dust off the metal machines and try not to get grease and oil on the wood and woodworking machines.
[13:25:36] <CaptHindsight> I got an extra mill just for boring into granite surface plates
[13:26:54] <R2E4_> That looks like fun, allthough I would choose to wear shoes.
[13:27:06] <Loetmichel> me too ;-)
[13:27:22] <Loetmichel> and some protectivegear
[13:27:25] <mozmck> If I was working in the shop much I would separate the metal and wood - mainly to keep the wood dust out of the metal working stuff.
[13:27:29] <Loetmichel> like a leather suit
[13:32:36] <CaptHindsight> big wheels, rope and a bicycle when I was a kid
[13:34:27] <andypugh> Yes, I am doing the woodwork in my living room, rather than get the metalworking stuff dusty :-)
[13:34:36] <CaptHindsight> did they have big wheels in the 70's in europe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Wheel_%28tricycle%29
[13:37:32] <archivist> living room is for electronics
[13:39:53] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: no
[13:39:58] <Loetmichel> not that i know of
[13:49:48] <Tom_itx> archivist naw, more suited for bikes as they won't fit down the hallway
[13:50:44] <Tom_itx> andypugh you got that cabinet stained yet?
[13:52:36] <CaptHindsight> not if he uses coasters and placemats :)
[13:53:24] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Just reassembling it. I have had a few people suggest i ought to fume it before finishing.
[13:58:17] <CaptHindsight> speaking about perpetual motion machines earlier http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/01/04/wireless-energy-3d-printed-atmomotor-hv/
[13:58:52] <CaptHindsight> http://laserhacker.com/?p=356
[14:07:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/good-to-share/10546819/Acoustic-levitation-how-sound-can-get-physical.html
[14:07:53] <CaptHindsight> fun stuff today
[14:09:32] <heathmanc> anybody got a source for decent nema23 servos?
[14:10:00] <heathmanc> besides keling
[14:10:11] <heathmanc> haven't heard anybody ever really talk about them
[14:10:45] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: what was that source of yours? they had really high torque
[14:10:53] <R2E4_> I pulled the shafts .5" latterally out of my keiling steppers.... on my router
[14:11:09] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: I use lots by Parker
[14:11:24] <CaptHindsight> AC servos
[14:11:28] <heathmanc> just looking for something peak torque 300-400oz in, incremental
[14:11:38] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: keling only has DC servos
[14:12:27] <andypugh> Omron?
[14:13:04] <CaptHindsight> yes, but I think he might be looking for DC. Which are you looking for heathmanc?
[14:13:08] <andypugh> heathmanc: Do you want new, or would you take second-hand?
[14:13:25] <heathmanc> second hand is fine if they aren't some no-name
[14:13:31] <heathmanc> i would prefer DC
[14:13:47] <heathmanc> AC would work, would get some pwm amps from pico probably
[14:14:34] <Tom_itx> heathmanc i got mine from keelinginc
[14:14:52] <Tom_itx> steppers that is
[14:15:07] <heathmanc> I have bought steppers from him before, this is for a servo system
[14:15:24] <andypugh> I wonder how well these hybrid stepper systems work? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Hybrid-Closed-loop-Step-Servo-Drive-Driver-2HSS86H-4-5N-M-Motor-Encoder-/281237656097?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item417b121221
[14:15:26] <Tom_itx> the steppers were fine
[14:15:45] <Tom_itx> his servos are skewed rotor
[14:15:47] <heathmanc> I don't know, I see them everywhere now
[14:15:53] <Tom_itx> at least some of them are
[14:16:03] <heathmanc> i just need something to interface dumb and let linux and mesa do their thing
[14:18:18] <heathmanc> would prefer them to be DC to use with mesa 7i29
[14:20:18] <CaptHindsight> http://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302496410/?Inch=0&CategorySpec=00000032221%3A%3Aa%0900000032222%3A%3Aa%0900000032283%3A%3Ab
[14:20:37] <CaptHindsight> PEAK TORQUE N-m 2.29
[14:22:40] <heathmanc> would have to go with pico, these are brushless servos with a 150vdc requirement
[14:23:20] <CaptHindsight> if you don't mind used there are several from Parker on ebay from a seller in Minn http://stores.ebay.com/D-S-Machined-Products?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[14:26:31] <t12_> ~a
[14:26:49] <CaptHindsight> Parker 23 size AC servo with a simple Gemini drive are ~$300
[14:27:01] <andypugh> FA-Parts has lot of motos and drives, second hand
[14:27:44] <andypugh> Like this set which I keep on not-quite buying: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261144227546?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[14:28:27] <andypugh> heathmanc: I am using the Mesa 8i20 with great success.
[14:28:33] <heathmanc> i have so much crapy lying around i need ot get rid of
[14:28:43] <heathmanc> not sure i want to fork over the money for 4 8i20
[14:28:57] <heathmanc> and they are overkill for a taig mill and a 7x14 lathe
[14:29:33] <andypugh> You get 5 for the price of 4 with the bulk discount :-)
[14:29:51] <heathmanc> i have a bunch of mitsubishi mr-j2 and allen bradley ultra3000 drives
[14:30:08] <heathmanc> lol, if i needed 4 that would be great!
[14:30:08] <jdh> i'll pay for the fifth one.
[14:30:08] <andypugh> So why not use them?
[14:30:39] <CaptHindsight> the AB Ultras are nice
[14:30:43] <heathmanc> the allen bradley stuff is nice, but the tuning is a pain.. i just want something dumb and only tune one loop
[14:30:53] <heathmanc> i have ultra3000s on the taig mill right now with 270watt motors
[14:31:07] <heathmanc> but they have smart encoders that are sin/cos
[14:31:34] <heathmanc> and two of the amps don't have a recent firmware so they commutation doesn't autodetect quite right the first time they are turned on
[14:31:41] <CaptHindsight> do you have a scope for tuning?
[14:32:01] <heathmanc> yes, i have a tektronix digital scope
[14:32:20] <heathmanc> truth be told, i am really an amater
[14:32:26] <heathmanc> amateur even
[14:32:41] <CaptHindsight> it's just takes some time to tune
[14:32:50] <heathmanc> that's not the biggest issue
[14:32:56] <CaptHindsight> some people just don't like to bother
[14:33:18] <heathmanc> when i enable the drive after it's been turned on the first time, the servos hunt for a while in one direction until they find whatever they are "looking for"
[14:33:22] <heathmanc> after that, it's fine
[14:33:39] <CaptHindsight> hunt fast or slow?
[14:33:41] <heathmanc> but I'm looking for something more compact than that setup, and something i can move easily to a lathe
[14:33:46] <heathmanc> slow
[14:33:56] <R2E4_> IS pulse coder another name for encoder?
[14:34:00] <heathmanc> it's a firmware issue with the drive, and AB doesn't just give up firmware
[14:34:13] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[14:34:31] <heathmanc> so instead of using them as intelligent encoders, i have to select sin/cos and a serial commutation
[14:34:46] <heathmanc> but it isn't quite right.. the drive that has the newer firmware works great
[14:36:46] <heathmanc> so, with the 8i20, was the setup pretty easy?
[14:37:13] <andypugh> Not for me.
[14:37:29] <andypugh> I had to write a driver, and the bldc HAL component.
[14:37:31] <andypugh> :-)
[14:37:38] <CaptHindsight> what year is that older ultra3000 from?
[14:37:38] <heathmanc> i am moving to a single board computer, and a 4i69 anything io on a pci-104 bus
[14:37:38] <andypugh> It should be easier now.
[14:38:09] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: what firmware rev?
[14:39:04] <heathmanc> a date code of 1502
[14:39:12] <heathmanc> and firmwares from 1.3 to 1.4ish
[14:39:17] <heathmanc> needs to be 1.52 minimum
[14:39:33] <heathmanc> i have 7 of these drives total
[14:39:38] <heathmanc> only one has 1.52
[14:39:49] <heathmanc> they would work great for a regular incremental encoder
[14:39:50] <CaptHindsight> 2098-DSD-010 or the -005?
[14:40:04] <heathmanc> i have four of the 005
[14:40:11] <heathmanc> and one 010, and two 020
[14:40:27] <CaptHindsight> I might have a home for them if you decide to get rid of them
[14:40:29] <heathmanc> the last 3 are sercos models, but run fine not on sercos
[14:40:59] <heathmanc> they are great drives, the ultraware software is nice
[14:41:03] <heathmanc> but again, I am a hobbyist
[14:41:25] <CaptHindsight> I mostly use them to control linear servos
[14:42:14] <heathmanc> i am just looking for something more compact
[14:42:30] <heathmanc> need to find something to do with the mitsubishi mr-j2s amps also
[14:42:42] <heathmanc> don't have any extra servos for those
[14:42:54] <heathmanc> and many galil cards
[14:43:04] <heathmanc> I collect stuff it would seem
[14:43:33] <CaptHindsight> have link to the motors? or are the mr-j2s amps?
[14:43:41] <heathmanc> amps
[14:43:48] <heathmanc> uses hc-kfs type motors
[14:43:55] <heathmanc> 131072 encoder counts
[14:44:28] <CaptHindsight> what size amps? the 20's?
[14:45:06] <heathmanc> 3 40's and one 70
[14:45:48] <CaptHindsight> nice stuff
[14:45:54] <heathmanc> originally tried them with mach3 and a galil card and plugin
[14:46:06] <CaptHindsight> are you really pressed for space?
[14:46:06] <heathmanc> was not very happy with the galil and mach3 plugin
[14:46:15] <heathmanc> i am in the air force stationed overseas
[14:46:20] <CaptHindsight> well anything mach3
[14:46:26] <heathmanc> i just don't need most of this stuff
[14:46:32] <heathmanc> i have a buying problem
[14:46:51] <CaptHindsight> a footlocker is only so big :)
[14:47:00] <heathmanc> lol
[14:48:45] <CaptHindsight> you still need a power supply for the 8i20's
[14:48:50] <heathmanc> right
[14:48:57] <heathmanc> i can come up with that no problem
[14:49:06] <heathmanc> i have toroids galore
[14:49:31] <CaptHindsight> they will work
[14:51:07] <heathmanc> just got a ekstrom carlson 24k spindle 1.34hp for this little taig mill
[14:51:36] <heathmanc> lighter than the spindle that was on there
[14:51:51] <heathmanc> but have to sort out the control from linuxcnc
[14:56:48] <andypugh> My 8i20 supply doesn't use a transformer, just retified mains.
[14:57:01] <andypugh> 300VDC
[14:57:53] <heathmanc> what are you interfacing the 8i20 with?
[14:58:47] <andypugh> These would be nice on the Taig, and would probably be OK with 50V and a 7i39HV. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251319064135?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
[14:59:24] <andypugh> I run the 8i20 through a 5i23 and 7i44.
[14:59:57] <heathmanc> those servos won't work, they have an intelligent encoder
[15:00:05] <andypugh> (plus a 7i39 and a 7i49 and a 7i64).
[15:00:22] <andypugh> How intelligent?
[15:00:53] <heathmanc> hiperface
[15:01:05] <heathmanc> sin/cos encoders
[15:01:14] <andypugh> Ah.
[15:01:58] <andypugh> Mesa have firmware for BiSS and SSI, bit not Hiperface AFAIK.
[15:02:11] <nlancaster> any tips for tramming a cnc router table? never done it before
[15:02:58] <andypugh> Dial indicator swinging on a log arm?
[15:03:06] <andypugh> (long arm)
[15:03:23] <andypugh> Thats the way to get the spindle perpendicular to the bed.
[15:03:38] <CaptHindsight> laser micrometer
[15:08:30] <heathmanc> so, the 8i20 has rj45 connectors back to the 7i44?
[15:14:02] <heathmanc> andypugh: what motors are you using with the 8i20
[15:14:32] <andypugh> Some Lenze 750W motors that I found on eBay.
[15:14:40] <andypugh> (Which have resolvers, for extra fun)
[15:15:56] <heathmanc> lol, pretty happy with the setup?
[15:16:21] <andypugh> Yes
[15:16:55] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0celdfZmkA
[15:18:22] <andypugh> The camera makes it seem louder than it really is.
[15:18:27] <heathmanc> any special configuration involved in linuxcnc?
[15:18:48] <andypugh> Yes.
[15:18:59] <heathmanc> lol, several days woth?
[15:19:01] <heathmanc> worth
[15:19:28] <andypugh> Hard to say, as I was writing the drivers and HAL component at the same time, so it took me several months.
[15:19:43] <andypugh> It should be about a day knowing what I know now.
[15:22:21] <nlancaster> love those big lit up buttons andypugh
[15:22:34] <heathmanc> so a 4i69, 7i47s, and 7i37com and 4x8i20 should work
[15:23:36] <heathmanc> well, no 7i47s, a 7i44 and them something to control analog out for spindle
[15:25:15] <andypugh> Cheapest setup would be 5i25 + 7i74 + another DB25 IO card for the GPIO.
[15:25:39] <heathmanc> i already have a 5i20, 7i37com, 7i48, 4i69
[15:26:41] <heathmanc> so i will be using the 4i69 on the single board computer
[15:26:53] <andypugh> Ah, in that case you would only need the 7i44, and it is fairly cheap: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=7i44&product_id=96
[15:27:00] <heathmanc> right
[15:27:07] <heathmanc> but that doesn't give me analog spindle control
[15:27:14] <andypugh> 7i83?
[15:27:30] <andypugh> Slightly overkill.
[15:28:02] <heathmanc> was looking at a 7i42ta and SPINx1
[15:28:45] <andypugh> I am forgetting you have all the other 5i20 headers :-)
[15:28:59] <heathmanc> right, but won't be using the 5i20
[15:29:03] <heathmanc> using a pci-104 card
[15:29:23] <heathmanc> the 5i20 is what i am currently using
[15:29:28] <heathmanc> waiting on my single board computer
[15:29:36] <andypugh> SPINX1 looks ideal, and could be driven off of anything, including a parallel port.
[15:29:42] <nlancaster> do they still make pc104 SBCs?
[15:29:49] <heathmanc> this is a pci-104
[15:29:53] <heathmanc> no isa interface
[15:29:56] <nlancaster> pci-104 i meant sorry
[15:29:59] <andypugh> I have an interesting SBC to play with, when I get the time: www.udoo.org
[15:30:09] <heathmanc> oh yes, advantech, adlink, emac
[15:30:13] <heathmanc> bunch of them out there
[15:30:35] <heathmanc> i have looked at udoos
[15:31:10] <heathmanc> i am a little confused about the ac servo inputs into the 8i20
[15:31:19] <andypugh> I am not sure how the PC and Arduino side yalk to each other.
[15:31:36] <heathmanc> don't see inputs for encoders/hall sensors
[15:35:18] <andypugh> Yes, the 8i20 is totally dumb, and encoder inputs and halls etc get into HAL from elsewhere.
[15:35:50] <andypugh> (In my case the commutation is all done via the 7i49 Resolver data)
[15:37:14] <heathmanc> so something like a 7i52 is needed
[15:38:57] <heathmanc> and just leave out the 7i44
[15:39:09] <andypugh> That would work, but the 7i37 is probably perfectly adequate
[15:39:11] <heathmanc> rj45 from the 8i20 to flying leads to the 7i52
[15:39:54] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I see your plan.
[15:39:55] <heathmanc> 7i37 is just an i/o card
[15:40:13] <andypugh> You might need tp check with PCW that it will work.
[15:40:42] <andypugh> Right, out to the workshop to see what is wrong with the belt sander.
[15:40:53] <heathmanc> lol, good luck
[16:08:46] <andypugh> Thought it was the belt, no such luck, it's the output bearing spinning in the housing.
[16:09:46] <heathmanc> that's no good
[16:09:56] <heathmanc> outer race isn't tight to the bore?
[16:10:01] <andypugh> 608 skate bearing :-)
[16:10:11] <heathmanc> easy enough to get hold of
[16:10:25] <andypugh> Just ordered
[16:10:55] <andypugh> (Heck, I ordered 8 of them)
[16:11:57] <heathmanc> cheap enough to have spares
[16:12:46] <heathmanc> i think i got my situation sorted.. 7i47s, and 7i52, 4169, 4x 8i20
[16:13:56] <heathmanc> and then the 7i37COM for all the gpio
[16:26:06] <Deejay> gn8
[16:45:19] <andypugh> heathmanc: What is your motor power?
[16:45:50] <heathmanc> whatever i want it to be, seeing as i don't have any but the AB motors I am currently using
[16:45:55] <heathmanc> they are 270watt
[16:46:00] <heathmanc> overkill for the taig
[16:46:13] <heathmanc> but the plan is a bigger mill in a couple years
[16:46:30] <andypugh> 270W is rather small for the 8i20, it lacks resolution at low currents (or so I think PCW has said)
[16:47:05] <andypugh> What voltage are they?
[16:47:13] <andypugh> (How fast do they run at 50V?)
[16:47:26] <heathmanc> they are 230V
[16:47:36] <andypugh> Hmm.
[16:47:49] <heathmanc> these won't be the ones i am using, they have intelligent absolute encoders
[16:47:57] <andypugh> 7i39 will probably spin them a bit slowly then.
[16:48:37] <andypugh> We have been working on BiSS and SSI, the drivers are there in Master
[16:49:10] <heathmanc> these use stegmann i believe
[16:49:13] <heathmanc> don't know how that compares
[16:49:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Xo21L0ybE
[16:50:22] <heathmanc> i have some 200v 400w sanyo denki P5 ac servos that i would like to use also
[16:50:29] <heathmanc> but again, some funky encoder
[16:50:35] <heathmanc> they are for my cnc router project
[16:53:49] <andypugh> We need to work on these funky encoders.
[16:54:08] <heathmanc> they are ABSII-R
[16:54:11] <heathmanc> or something odd
[16:54:17] <andypugh> I have one serve (also Sanyo Denki P5, actually) that I intend taking the encoder off of and fitting a Resolver i have spare...
[16:54:23] <heathmanc> they are on a mechanism I really want to use
[16:54:42] <andypugh> I rather like resolvers.
[16:54:51] <heathmanc> I like whatever works
[16:55:17] <heathmanc> what kind of resolvers are you fitting on it?
[16:57:48] <andypugh> I don't know, it was something like £2 on eBay because the guy had no idea what it was,
[16:58:41] <heathmanc> Are you in england?
[16:58:48] <andypugh> Aye
[16:59:05] <heathmanc> that's where I'm stationed. at RAF Lakenheath
[16:59:25] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[17:02:06] <andypugh> http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/288-servo-and-stepper-systems
[17:05:02] <andypugh> and http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/sections/1/motors/
[17:06:04] <andypugh> and http://www.worldofcnc.com
[17:08:47] <heathmanc> a wide range of items
[17:17:13] <andypugh> heathmanc: You are only 30 miles from a LinuxCNC user who is building a working scale model Ferrari F1 engine: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods
[17:19:33] <heathmanc> that's pretty awesome.. some people have to much time on their hands
[17:19:45] <heathmanc> i wish i could get into something like that
[17:20:03] <syyl-> aww
[17:20:09] <syyl-> that guy has a deckel fp2nc
[17:20:29] <syyl-> envy :o
[17:21:34] <andypugh> He doesn't mess about, that's for sure. He just built a new workshop: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Qll6-unQntbnBFe2fjfNbSE34QWor4gUzfw_1O9qsPw?feat=directlink
[17:22:53] <heathmanc> a lot of cast iron there
[17:24:05] <andypugh> Aye. Definiteluy not enough cast iron here: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aD3U7TVt-SvekGIitO20B9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:24:11] <syyl-> and a lot of fine machined parts
[17:24:29] <andypugh> That's my first (and current) CNC which suffers from a marked lack of adequacy.
[17:25:29] <syyl-> looks a bit used and battered ;)
[17:25:56] <andypugh> No, just unloved :-)
[17:26:10] <syyl-> dont tell her
[17:26:32] <andypugh> I hope to get rid of it in a year or so.
[17:27:02] <andypugh> Some fool will prbably pay good money for a combined CNC mill/lathe :-)
[17:27:48] <syyl-> of course, it seems like a good idea ;)
[17:27:52] <andypugh> (and it does actually do good work as long as the parts are small and the cuts are light)
[17:29:39] <andypugh> It isn't a good idea to take a 7" lathe and stretch it to 9". It is then a bad idea to make it a 9x40 rather than 7x20. It is an even worse idea to then bolt on a milling head, as V-flat lathe beds make lousy milling tables.
[17:30:16] <andypugh> It is then an even worse idea to convert such a machine to CNC :-)
[17:30:36] <syyl-> ;)
[17:30:49] <syyl-> i had a lough :D
[17:30:56] <heathmanc> lol, but that's how you learn what you really want
[17:31:04] <heathmanc> several incarnations of cnc kludgery
[17:34:01] <andypugh> Yes, indeed. Which is why I went on to convert a proper machine made in Yorkshire by folk who knew what they were doing, using proper-sized motors and custom iron castings rather than milled aluminium.
[17:34:53] <andypugh> I am pretty proud of the Harrison conversion, I think it is a bit like Harrison themselves might have done it.
[17:35:26] <andypugh> I am still dithering about whether to CNC convert the Rivett 608 lathe next :-)
[17:36:17] <andypugh> (another case of buying a machine built without compromise a long time ago, rather than something built yesterday, badly, to be as cheap as possible)
[17:45:59] <nlancaster> use it to build one from scratch.
[17:46:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.xmos.com/en/products/silicon http://www.xmos.com/startkit#D1WEaWZP anyone ever play with their hardware?
[17:46:31] <andypugh> I have considered it. I am interested in the idea of starting from a slab of granite.
[17:48:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: I know a roof you can get soem from
[17:49:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hey, you have bandwidth this mont again WOOHOO
[17:51:06] <nlancaster> andypugh, the lathe is "the" basic machine tool. all others including other laths can be built with a lathe.
[17:51:37] <andypugh> nlancaster: And the sky is blue and water is wet :-)
[17:53:43] <nlancaster> uh?
[17:54:00] <nlancaster> i am serious. the lathe can replicate itself. and machine all hte parts to build a mill.
[17:54:28] <nlancaster> if asked which came first, the lathe or the mill? The Lathe!
[17:55:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.camachinetools.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/greece-ancient-athenian-agora-mill-stones.jpg the ancient greeks had mills
[17:56:39] <CaptHindsight> never heard of an ancient greek lathe :)
[17:56:58] <nlancaster> they had them
[17:57:16] <nlancaster> and a mill stone, is not a "Mill"
[17:57:25] <nlancaster> as in 3 axis machining system :P
[17:57:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kotsanas.com/gb/exh.php?exhibit=1101008
[17:58:50] <nlancaster> see. lathes! :D
[17:59:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kotsanas.com/gb/exh.php?exhibit=1101006
[17:59:46] <nlancaster> i read alot sci-fi and some of my favorite books deal with creating technology on a primitive planet or in the past.
[18:00:06] <nlancaster> neet
[18:01:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kotsanas.com/gb/exh.php?exhibit=1101012 λιμάνι εμπορευματικών μεταφορών
[18:01:09] <nlancaster> conrad stargard books, and also now the Safehold series from david weber
[18:01:41] <CaptHindsight> loosely translates as freight harbor :)
[18:01:46] <nlancaster> nice!
[18:09:48] <i_tom> nlancaster: totally agree about the lathes
[18:11:27] <i_tom> CaptHindsight: ancient lathes look nearly close to as we know it today
[18:11:57] <i_tom> the workpiece was rotated by the energy of falling water or human force (slaves)
[18:12:21] <i_tom> for sure the lathe is invented before the mill
[18:12:25] <i_tom> :)
[18:12:27] <CaptHindsight> same for math, but don't tell that to the schoolbook publishers
[18:12:56] <i_tom> and democracy, philosophy, basic medicine
[18:13:19] <i_tom> great nation
[18:13:48] <CaptHindsight> then the Italians took over
[18:14:23] <i_tom> more like latinics and italics
[18:14:35] <i_tom> not sure about the exact word for them nations
[18:14:42] <i_tom> the founders of modern italy
[18:15:00] <i_tom> anyway, other great nation didn't know the wheel
[18:16:01] <i_tom> edit: didn't use the wheel for other than kids toys
[18:16:19] <i_tom> moved cargo with dragging sledges
[18:17:24] <i_tom> gentlemen, anyone of you built a custom cnc panel ? with all the controls, DRO, display and etc ?
[18:17:50] <i_tom> I mean from scratch ?
[18:18:10] <i_tom> I have some concerns mounting my LCDs
[18:22:10] <nlancaster> i have not built one of thoseyet. but I have done a few things with LCDs. what kind of convern?
[18:27:54] <i_tom> I bought a couple of LCD panels on eBay
[18:27:59] <i_tom> they look and work great
[18:28:11] <i_tom> but are really thin 2.5 mm
[18:28:23] <i_tom> and is really hard to figure out how to mount them securely
[18:28:50] <i_tom> they only came with double stick tape on the front bezel, which is not really a bezel
[18:28:58] <nlancaster> there are screw holes in the edge of hte frame
[18:29:04] <i_tom> no,
[18:29:07] <nlancaster> ussualy
[18:29:10] <i_tom> unfortunately none of them
[18:29:41] <i_tom> I was thinking, mayme sticking it ot a plate of aluminum about 5 mm thick
[18:29:48] <i_tom> on* a plate
[18:29:50] <nlancaster> should work
[18:29:58] <nlancaster> they do have a metal frame round the outside right?
[18:30:11] <i_tom> with small pocket on the other side to mount some acrylic screen
[18:30:15] <CaptHindsight> with touchscreens?
[18:30:17] <i_tom> 2 mm thickness
[18:30:23] <i_tom> I'm guessing
[18:30:37] <i_tom> No, at the moment I haven't bought touch screen for the panel
[18:30:48] <CaptHindsight> what size are these?
[18:30:56] <i_tom> It would be an option though
[18:30:59] <nlancaster> why not clamp along the edges of the screens, with a piece of thin foam in between
[18:30:59] <i_tom> 10.1"
[18:31:08] <nlancaster> that is one way I have seen them mounted
[18:32:13] <i_tom> I don't actually want to mount them permanently. Wanna think of some way to be assembled and to have option of replacing the acrylic protective screen.
[18:32:24] <nlancaster> that is what I am talking about
[18:32:47] <nlancaster> not double tape or naything. just use calmping to hold the entire sandwitch together.
[18:33:00] <i_tom> I got it now, sorry, when I read "foam" I thought of stick foam
[18:33:15] <nlancaster> the foam is just to give a bit of padding to the clamp
[18:33:16] <i_tom> and yes, that with the foam and clamp would be a great choice
[18:33:19] <nlancaster> keep from over tightening it
[18:33:46] <i_tom> and on the other side you're right, clamping metal to glass directly is not very good idea
[18:35:31] <i_tom> I think I may have some 1.5 mm endmills laying around somewhere at the shop to cut the frame out of the aluminum plate
[18:37:00] <i_tom> check this out http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-1inch-B101EW05-1280-800-lcd-panel-HDMI-VGA-2AV-Reversing-lcd-Driver-board-/181044271659?pt=UK_Computing_Laptop_Screens_LCD_Panels&hash=item2a27145a2b
[18:37:04] <i_tom> it's the same model
[18:38:32] <i_tom> mine has a bit higher resolution 1920x1200
[18:44:14] <nlancaster> in a 10inch, that is awesome!
[18:44:30] <nlancaster> ah, laptop panels :D
[18:51:55] <i_tom> awesome and hard to see from across 2 metres :D
[18:52:15] <andypugh> nlancaster: Sorry, I was elsewhere. I was suggesting that your statement was very obvious :-)
[18:52:49] <andypugh> Pole lathes still work extremely well.
[18:53:17] <andypugh> (For wood mainly, but metal is do-able)
[18:54:25] <someone972> Whats a typical acceleration limit and velocity limit for a stepper based machine?
[18:54:45] <someone972> Just for some caculations, not an actual machine
[18:55:16] <nlancaster> ah, np andypugh
[18:55:29] <andypugh> You might like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnv0DAR_gWA
[18:55:45] <andypugh> someone972: Metric or Imperial?
[18:56:02] <someone972> Imperial I suppose
[18:56:11] <andypugh> No idea then :-)
[18:56:21] <someone972> Metric works too, i'll just convert it :P
[18:56:43] <andypugh> Try 30mm/sec and 600mm/sec/se
[18:58:01] <someone972> I guess I'll round those to 1 inch/sec and 24 inch/sec/sec to make it easier, thanks
[18:58:08] <andypugh> Interestingly the _ratios_ between the numbers are very different in Imperial.
[18:59:06] <andypugh> (It doesn't seem like they should be)
[18:59:30] <nlancaster> woodwrights shop he uses and also shows how to build several different lathes.
[18:59:47] <nlancaster> no special tools required. just wood, but onceyou have a wood lathe, you could work up from there.
[19:02:13] <nlancaster> http://youtu.be/DD_PBkV7Ovg
[19:10:06] <RyanS> , which is a good engineering supplier in the UK? like the equivalent of MSC, McMaster.. Everything is a rip-off in Australia
[19:10:30] <someone972> Does linux cnc use a certain unit internally? I see this line 'tiny_dp = max_dv * period * 0.001' which would change by a factor of almost 25 if inches were given to it instead of mm.
[19:11:22] <andypugh> someone972: LinuxCNC is metric Internally. However the Axis UI is inches internally. (<shrug>)
[19:12:05] <someone972> So if I'm doing calculations in inches I should convert any constants to inches first then.
[19:13:57] <andypugh> RyanS: I get a lot of stuff from RS (who also exist in Aus). Never cheapest, but good for stock and delivery. Other than that I use Cromwell tools, as I am 10 minutes walk from one, but they have a proper range of stuff: https://www.cromwell.co.uk
[19:14:28] <andypugh> However, really, anything you might want, at any qulaity level, is probably on eBay now.
[19:19:24] <Mr_Mayhem> andypugh Those engine parts look beautiful by the way.
[19:19:44] <RyanS> yeh, RS is expensive but quick. I was always wondering what sort of quality their RS generic brand is
[19:19:54] <andypugh> Yeah, Roger is the sort of perfectionist I wish I was.
[19:20:28] <andypugh> I probably need to share this link here too. It was a really good TV series, http://youtu.be/QisKUt_fPPU
[19:21:25] <andypugh> "Now there are only 600 full-time green-wood workers in the UK. That many?
[19:22:01] <RyanS> shipping to Australia from the UK seems a lot cheaper than from the US (although exactly the same if you useDHL)
[19:23:14] <andypugh> Maybe we have the same queen on the stamps?
[19:24:16] <RyanS> That's probably it.. I think U.S. Postal Service is just really expensive
[19:25:23] <RyanS> Chinese post is so slow you forget that you ordered something when it arrives
[19:25:31] <eric_unterhausen> it's like santa
[19:25:53] <andypugh> Yeah, packages arrive and I have no idea what they are going to be :-)
[19:26:11] <andypugh> it's rather fun.
[19:26:42] <CaptHindsight> the last administration tried to bankrupt the USPS by requiring them to prefund their pension plans for something ~30 years
[19:27:17] <CaptHindsight> thats why rates are so high
[19:27:55] <CaptHindsight> it was a plan designed to bankrupt the USPS so that it could be replaced by private firms
[19:28:02] <RyanS> we thought we got lots of parcels to our house, but the delivery guy said some people get more than five a day
[19:28:39] <PCW> USPS still much cheaper than UPS/Fedex etc
[19:28:52] <RyanS> Bricks and mortar shopping is a waste of time. Although sometimes you need to see the shit in person
[19:29:16] <eric_unterhausen> when my garage door can be controlled from the internet, I'm going to surprise the ups man when he brings a package
[19:29:48] <Mr_Mayhem> open sesame
[19:29:55] <CaptHindsight> be sure to make a video
[19:29:59] <eric_unterhausen> it cost less than $60
[19:30:08] <RyanS> not as surprised if you built a robot to receive the package
[19:31:16] <eric_unterhausen> my son left the garage door open overnight, I decided it was worth $60 to save all my stuff from some meth head
[19:31:55] <RyanS> Amazon was thinking of using drones to deliver parcels, but they were concerned about the liability if it lands on your cat
[19:31:57] <CaptHindsight> $60 for a meth box on the sidewalk?
[19:32:13] <eric_unterhausen> all the forum spammers are posting football game links
[19:32:14] <CaptHindsight> that was just a PR stunt
[19:32:15] <andypugh> I spent all of Christmas (I was away for 2 weeks) beating myself up for my OCD worrying about whether I locked the back door. came back to find the back door unlocked...
[19:32:43] <RyanS> was probably just remote control
[19:32:43] <eric_unterhausen> funny
[19:33:00] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: we unlocked while you were away :)
[19:33:17] <Tom_itx> there's an ap for that
[19:33:29] <Tom_itx> but i wouldn't trust it
[19:33:35] <eric_unterhausen> I used to live on the top of a mountain and one time I stayed late at work, rode my bike home and then had to ride back to see if the door was locked
[19:33:58] <eric_unterhausen> there is an app to open my garage door
[19:34:03] <Tom_itx> andypugh next time you decide to do that let us know
[19:34:17] <Tom_itx> i could use a nice mill and a few odd tools
[19:34:19] <eric_unterhausen> we will fume your oak furniture for you
[19:34:31] <andypugh> I don't own anything worth the air fair
[19:34:43] <Tom_itx> what exactly is 'fuming' the wood?
[19:34:48] <andypugh> (And the workshop is always locked)
[19:34:49] <Tom_itx> i've not heard of that
[19:34:54] <andypugh> Ammonia
[19:35:03] <eric_unterhausen> changes the tannin in oak black
[19:35:12] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_fuming
[19:35:14] <RyanS> Your grandmother would probably just say back in my day it was safe to leave the doorunlocked
[19:35:16] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_fuming
[19:35:16] <eric_unterhausen> you can make oak look like ebony if you work at it
[19:35:20] <archivist> old method of fuming was horse piss
[19:35:28] <eric_unterhausen> still works
[19:35:35] <eric_unterhausen> but nobody has horses
[19:35:47] <Tom_itx> plenty of horses arses around though
[19:35:47] <CaptHindsight> how do you get a horse to aim at your wood?
[19:35:53] <eric_unterhausen> but why wouldn't you just use human piss
[19:36:29] <eric_unterhausen> I suppose that the stuff from horses makes more ammonia
[19:36:42] <Tom_itx> interesting
[19:37:13] <eric_unterhausen> back when we had diaper service, they picked up once a week, you could use those things for fuming, no problem
[19:37:19] <RyanS> I always like the one about hatters using mercury as part of the process hence the phrase,
[19:37:30] <nlancaster> mad as a hatter!
[19:38:08] <RyanS> I'm always picturing an Irishman I don't know why
[19:38:18] <eric_unterhausen> we had one prof that insisted on using mercury pressure gauges, they were always in there with bunny suits
[19:38:20] <nlancaster> leprachan?
[19:38:40] <andypugh> I can't decide if I should do it or not, but I am thinking it seems like "faking" age, so I probably won't bother.
[19:39:15] <eric_unterhausen> like I said the other night, they used to do it all the time, just because it looks better
[19:39:31] <CaptHindsight> unless you prefer bleached oak
[19:39:46] <eric_unterhausen> not really to try to age it, but because the un-fumed wood looks a little under-finished
[19:40:27] <RyanS> I watched some video sword making and the guys spent hours using hand file.... I was thinking really just use an angle grinder and a flap disc
[19:40:46] <eric_unterhausen> I think most knife makers use belt grinders
[19:41:38] <andypugh> Oak is pretty enough as it comes, and it darkens naturally in a decade or so.
[19:41:46] <RyanS> Or just use plain steel and make i decorative unless you fancy yourself as a real mediaeval warrior
[19:42:02] <CaptHindsight> did anyone else have the knife sharpener guy come around with his cart with a pedal powered grinder?
[19:42:11] <eric_unterhausen> ya, just use shellac and it will be fine
[19:43:13] <RyanS> I bought the Diamond knives sharpening device that was made by the same manufacturer and its screwed up the knife completely
[19:45:05] <RyanS> It had like a series of dmetal fingers that you run the blade through..
[19:45:20] <andypugh> We didn't do anything with the oak here, just a rub with wax and waited 10 years. it looks nice. There is one bit in the picture (the centre vertical) with a 400-year lead on the rest. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WGCTXkddltFILzkDZ2i-ytMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:46:45] <RyanS> Is that your hobbit house?
[19:46:53] <CaptHindsight> serve might be frozen "500 internal server error"
[19:46:58] <CaptHindsight> server
[19:47:06] <i_tom> andypugh: sorry to interrupt, pretty nice wood on the picture :)
[19:47:06] <andypugh> it's my parent's house
[19:47:07] <nlancaster> ^^
[19:47:38] <RyanS> it makes me want to drink egg nog
[19:47:47] <Mr_Mayhem> hehe
[19:47:53] <Mr_Mayhem> Nice wood.
[19:47:54] <Tom_itx> andypugh is that the same one we've seen other pics of?
[19:48:21] <andypugh> The table in the foreground is Elm, and is my dad's work. I made all the doors, we both made the stairs and the roof. (You can just see the 10" x 10" oak purlins)
[19:48:27] <i_tom> it reminds me somehow of blackmore's night
[19:48:28] <i_tom> ;)
[19:48:41] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Aye, that it be.
[19:50:08] <i_tom> andypugh: a cousin of mine who is having a coffee with me by now and is a 3rd generation carpenter sends his compliments
[19:50:10] <i_tom> too
[19:50:12] <RyanS> my dad wants to renovate the kitchen..... I can't see that ending well
[19:51:23] <i_tom> RyanS: why is that
[19:51:44] <RyanS> I don't think it's worth the hassle
[19:51:54] <andypugh> Possibly worth mentioning that my dad made a forge to make the hinges and door handles you can see in that photo too. (I was bred this way, you see)
[19:52:34] <eric_unterhausen> renovating the kitchen is a horrible idea
[19:52:38] <Tom_itx> not a home depot kit home?
[19:52:39] <i_tom> Another respect then!
[19:52:54] <eric_unterhausen> renovation is the 4th leading cause of divorce in the U.S.
[19:53:02] <i_tom> omg
[19:53:08] <RyanS> I think I could understand why
[19:53:12] <eric_unterhausen> I just made that up
[19:53:21] <eric_unterhausen> but it's really not uncommon at all
[19:53:26] <RyanS> Is probably true
[19:53:34] <Mr_Mayhem> THe original do it yourself: Make a forge for the door hardware.
[19:53:38] <Mr_Mayhem> nice.
[19:53:49] <i_tom> Have a nice day, gentlemen. Good luck with the projects.
[19:53:58] <eric_unterhausen> my parents got divorced and a renovation was definitely a contributing factor
[19:54:09] <andypugh> A very old web site with the full story of that house and what we did. http://www.bodgesoc.org/slaithwaite.html
[19:54:41] <andypugh> This is a website to old that thumbnails really were, as 28k8 modems were still common
[19:54:51] <RyanS> Actually I was thinking of making one of those propane forges with fire bricks, but the idea of making the and gas burner frightens me
[19:55:42] <andypugh> RyanS: Just use coke and air. That's what they still use. It's as much about chemistry as heat
[19:56:23] <nlancaster> as part of my CNC router want. cutting patterns for casting metal.
[19:56:38] <eric_unterhausen> I'm resolved to replace my failed transaxle
[19:56:53] <nlancaster> with a DIY?
[19:56:54] <nlancaster> wow!
[19:57:14] <RyanS> I really just want to use it to bend stuff, although with casting you can really only melt aluminium unless you have a pretty serious forge?
[19:57:22] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, with a diy removed from a junk car transaxle
[19:57:32] <nlancaster> you can melt bronze
[19:57:48] <nlancaster> it is only a little higher temp then aluminum
[19:57:53] <CaptHindsight> eric_u_cnc: this weather reminds me of every time I had to swap a trans or replace a clutch in the snow
[19:57:55] <nlancaster> and Steel is possible at home, but much harder.
[19:58:11] <CaptHindsight> eric_unterhausen: ^^
[19:58:12] <andypugh> Even I was thinking that an axle from scratch was quite a project. (Though I know folk who would attempt it)
[19:58:22] <eric_unterhausen> i'm the same eric, as it happens
[19:58:36] <CaptHindsight> wasn't positive
[19:58:46] <eric_unterhausen> my major car repairs always happen when it is bitter cold
[19:58:58] <RyanS> And does it go through gas tanks really quickly? You know the ones where you cut up an old propane tank and line is with whatever
[19:59:28] <eric_unterhausen> one of my many bosses says, "nobody buys dell" and wants a microsoft surface
[20:00:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/end_stairs.JPG is that bulb right over the stairs or just an illusion?
[20:01:04] <eric_unterhausen> duck
[20:01:38] <owhite> hello people.
[20:02:10] <andypugh> Really? They are planning to replace the laptops we use at work (Dell) with Toughbooks. But the Toughbooks cost 10x as much and, even though we give them a really hard time, we probably break one Dell every 5 years each, not 10. Plus the Toughbooks have tiny blurred screens, and can't charge below -20C
[20:02:42] <RyanS> eric_unterhausen were you talking about the oxygen concentrator propane set up?
[20:02:50] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: It's closer than it appears :-
[20:03:08] <eric_unterhausen> RyanS, not recently
[20:03:33] <eric_unterhausen> my boss isn't an idiot, but she plays one on tv
[20:04:04] <Mr_Mayhem> heh
[20:04:22] <owhite> I recently have tried to compile linux 2.6-pre on ubuntu using the xenomai rt kernal and I got the following error message when I ran linuxcnc http://pastebin.ca/2524565
[20:04:26] <eric_unterhausen> we bought a batch of portable workstations, and she had to have one because they were the newest laptops
[20:04:59] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: whats the electrical code for old structures like that? has to be in conduit? or?
[20:05:24] <Tom_itx> hook and loop
[20:05:28] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:05:29] <owhite> exec_prefix should be /usr/local but for some reason it's not getting set.
[20:05:32] <eric_unterhausen> owhite, when you ran that did you use rip_environment first?
[20:05:38] <eric_unterhausen> is it a run-in place build?
[20:05:54] <owhite> no, prefix=/usr/local
[20:06:07] <eric_unterhausen> it's not being substituted in
[20:06:15] <andypugh> Actually, that's a good photo, you can see the wood colour there, I have one I took of the same room last week: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1LcbScYB4zvjXmaA7Ma5s9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:06:19] <CaptHindsight> I had a house with hook and loop left in a few walls
[20:06:20] <eric_unterhausen> did you make install?
[20:06:47] <RyanS> brazing no? I'm thinking of getting an oxygen propane set up just so only need to rent oxygen.. Can't weld steel, but who cares j
[20:07:00] <eric_unterhausen> my mother's house has knob and tube wiring
[20:07:20] <eric_unterhausen> ya, you should be able to weld light steel with that
[20:07:21] <owhite> yes - I ran $ sudo make install
[20:07:38] <Tom_itx> no carbon in the gas
[20:07:45] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: The electrical code is "Don't ask, don't tell"
[20:08:21] <eric_unterhausen> if you properly installed linuxcnc, you should be able to run it from anywhere, not from linux/scripts
[20:08:34] <owhite> understood
[20:08:45] <eric_unterhausen> did you try that?
[20:09:02] <owhite> I get the same error running it from anywhere, yes.
[20:09:27] <CaptHindsight> I moved to oxygen propane a few years ago. When I went to buy propane people had left empty tanks that i was able to exchange for full and new, at 1/4 the price of getting new tanks
[20:09:32] <andypugh> RyanS: MAPP Gas is pretty good.
[20:09:59] <RyanS> I know oxygen propane is perfectly fine for cutting, but I wonder how it goes with heating and brazing duties
[20:10:04] <Tom_itx> eric_unterhausen any push button switches left in the house?
[20:10:13] <CaptHindsight> fine for brazing
[20:10:34] <RyanS> You can't get mapp in refillable cylinders. I don't think
[20:10:59] <andypugh> Ah! A question, where can I get authentic-looking 1920s/1930s push-button switches and knobs for my Rivett lathe cabinet?
[20:11:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJjqBLGgiK0 Oxy Propane welding
[20:11:09] <eric_unterhausen> sorry, you didn't really run the local script because no ./
[20:11:10] <eric_unterhausen> reverse of usual problem
[20:11:27] <RyanS> propane , you can just get at the local petrol station
[20:11:47] <owhite> eric_unterhausen: any other suggestions?
[20:12:56] <RyanS> Apparently they don't make MAPP in the formulation that was almost as powerful as acetaleye ..
[20:13:00] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: That's a very "soft" flame compared to oxy-acetylene
[20:13:29] <RyanS> It's kind of MAPP lite
[20:14:27] <CaptHindsight> Maximum neutral flame temperature of acetelyne in oxygen is about 5720*F.
[20:14:28] <CaptHindsight> Maximum neutral flame tempature of propane in oxygen is about 5112*F.
[20:14:30] <andypugh> My sister welds with electrolytic oxy-hydrogen, that's a nice short hard flame.
[20:14:51] <CaptHindsight> MAPP like all of the Liquified Petroleum gasses is not appropriate for welding of steel, due to the high concentration of hydrogen in the flame. The hydrogen infuses into the molten steel and renders the welds brittle.
[20:15:07] <eric_unterhausen> Tom_itx, I don't think so
[20:15:07] <eric_unterhausen> when I was a kid, one of my uncles had pushbuttons and I thought they were great
[20:15:27] <RyanS> How quickly do you go through oxygen. If you don't do much cutting?
[20:15:39] <eric_unterhausen> owhite, I'm refreshing my shell script programming
[20:15:55] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I am not so moch talking about the temperature of the flame, as the size od the "point" and how much force it has for pushing about the weld pool.
[20:16:11] <owhite> thanks.
[20:16:20] <owhite> 'preciate any help.
[20:16:22] <heathmanc> well, I decided against changing most of the setup
[20:16:34] <heathmanc> bought two more AB ultra3000 drives with the right firmware
[20:16:39] <RyanS> I don't know if you have D size cylinders which is as large as I probably want to go
[20:16:43] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: understood
[20:17:07] <CaptHindsight> I haven't gas welded in 30+ years
[20:17:30] <eric_unterhausen> I did a lot of gas welding last summer, need bigger tanks
[20:17:32] <andypugh> She welds with a 1mm blue cone. (but only really in precious metals)
[20:18:08] <andypugh> I find TIG to have about the same "feel" but rather less force.
[20:18:09] <CaptHindsight> I picked up giant 400 cu ft tanks on craigslist
[20:18:35] <CaptHindsight> it took me a few tries until I found a gas supplier that would swap them for me
[20:18:48] <eric_unterhausen> more rip-environment | grep exec_prefix yields no results
[20:19:25] <owhite> yeah and rip-environment reports its only used for run-in-place
[20:19:27] <RyanS> suppliers will not do refills in Australia
[20:19:30] <andypugh> I pay an amount that makes me wince every month for the Argon bottle on the TIG that I am not sure I used at all this year.
[20:19:37] <RyanS> You have to rent
[20:20:02] <eric_unterhausen> owhite, what is the result of "which linuxcnc"?
[20:20:08] <eric_unterhausen> w/o the quotes
[20:20:13] <andypugh> (possibly more than I paid for the tax and insurance on the GasGas that I didn't ride at all this year).
[20:22:48] <CaptHindsight> my giant argon tanks are ~$70 for a refill
[20:23:01] <eric_unterhausen> do you rent them?
[20:23:04] <owhite> I get /usr/local/bin/linuxcnc
[20:23:06] <CaptHindsight> i own
[20:23:32] <CaptHindsight> I found a gas supplier an hours drive from me that swaps any tank I bring them
[20:23:46] <eric_unterhausen> that's what you need
[20:23:55] <CaptHindsight> I look for deals on craigslist
[20:24:12] <eric_unterhausen> around here, nobody knows what they are worth, so they ask for $1000
[20:24:28] <CaptHindsight> I never pay more than $150
[20:24:49] <CaptHindsight> I just make sure they have current dates
[20:25:05] <eric_unterhausen> there was a deal on some tanks on ebay within driving distance
[20:25:19] <eric_unterhausen> I thought he was asking too little on buy it now, so I bid
[20:25:28] <eric_unterhausen> turns out it went for less than the buy it now
[20:25:57] <CaptHindsight> I keep a few on hand with different mixes
[20:26:11] <eric_unterhausen> my good deed for the day :)
[20:27:29] <eric_unterhausen> owhite issue the command more /usr/local/bin/linuxcnc | grep prefix
[20:27:41] <RyanS> $70... I think even small ones are twice as much to refill here
[20:27:51] <CaptHindsight> I'm waiting for a syncrowave 300 within driving distance
[20:29:56] <CaptHindsight> anyone have experience with the MIller econotig?
[20:30:17] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/4266517524.html
[20:30:32] <owhite> seems like exec_prefix gets passed in from /linuxcnc/etc/linuxcnc/rtapi.ini
[20:30:53] <owhite> which looks like it should get installed in /etc
[20:31:50] <CaptHindsight> miller xmt 304 cc http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/4270012629.html
[20:32:27] <eric_unterhausen> I thought we established that you should just get an Everlast
[20:32:27] <eric_unterhausen> someone here wore me down, next time I get a big consulting check I'm going to buy one
[20:33:15] <owhite> eric_unterhausen the result of grep is exec_prefix=${prefix}
[20:33:47] <eric_unterhausen> huh, got broken somehow
[20:33:57] <CaptHindsight> I need to stop at a shop where you can try before you buy
[20:35:05] <andypugh> It is rarely the case that any product with "Econo" in the name is better than a similar product without "Econo" in the name
[20:35:42] <eric_unterhausen> there should be another line that says prefix=/usr
[20:35:59] <owhite> it says prefix=/usr/local one line up
[20:36:08] <eric_unterhausen> I think there are plenty of on-line reviews of the econotig
[20:36:23] <CaptHindsight> 1/4" aluminum is about the max I get into
[20:36:26] <eric_unterhausen> seems unnecessarily limited when there is an everlast out there
[20:36:44] <andypugh> if buying TIG you really ought to go for an AC/DC one with HF start
[20:36:54] <CaptHindsight> but I also need to go down to 16 ga aluminum
[20:36:55] <eric_unterhausen> I don't understand why exec_prefix isn't found then
[20:38:43] <eric_unterhausen> owhite, is there a usr/local/lib/linuxcnc
[20:38:57] <eric_unterhausen> /usr/local/lib/linuxcnc
[20:39:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fguSYx-gjjg Miller Diversion 180 vs Everlast PowerTig 185 micro
[20:39:15] <owhite> yes.
[20:40:11] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Scratch-start TIG is just miserable.
[20:42:03] <eric_unterhausen> there is a review of the Dynasty DX200 vs an Everlast
[20:42:13] <eric_unterhausen> the everlast is about 800
[20:43:09] <eric_unterhausen> ya, it's amazingly the everlast 200dx vs dynasty 200dx
[20:44:13] <eric_unterhausen> amazon wants 1200 for the everlast
[20:44:22] <eric_unterhausen> someone had a link to it for 800
[20:44:29] <eric_unterhausen> http://lostgarage.com/blogs/news/8182739-tig-welders-compared-miller-dynasty-200dx-vs-everlast-powertig-200dx
[20:45:28] <CaptHindsight> why I was leaning towards something 300A
[20:45:45] <eric_unterhausen> econotig is 300?
[20:46:03] <eric_unterhausen> I was remembering it was less than 200
[20:47:29] <CaptHindsight> Miller Syncrowave 300 TIG Welder - $1800
[20:47:37] <eric_unterhausen> ya, get that
[20:48:41] <CaptHindsight> figures it's up nearly to Minneapolis
[20:49:14] <eric_unterhausen> you are in chicago?
[20:49:16] <CaptHindsight> -35 C this Sunday
[20:49:20] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[20:49:57] <eric_unterhausen> owhite, too much of a rabbit hole for me, I would make clean and start over
[20:50:17] <eric_unterhausen> make uninstall too
[20:50:42] <eric_unterhausen> when I lived in Wisconsin, I suppose I was lucky it never got below -24F
[20:51:12] <CaptHindsight> we're having a cold snap that we get every 20 years or so
[20:51:44] <eric_unterhausen> I lived there in '78
[20:51:50] <CaptHindsight> 15C in China but I'm stuck here
[20:52:01] <eric_unterhausen> are you teaching?
[20:52:09] <andypugh> My first choice TIG, if someone else was buying, would be the Rehm Tiger.
[20:52:20] <CaptHindsight> have a factory there
[20:52:38] <CaptHindsight> R&D is here
[20:52:41] <eric_unterhausen> I was remembering someone else
[20:52:53] <andypugh> I have never used one, but I value portability and orange-ness
[20:52:53] <eric_unterhausen> taught electronics there, I think
[20:53:10] <CaptHindsight> someone from the U of C was in here
[20:53:16] <CaptHindsight> forget his nick
[20:55:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rehm.co.uk/tiger.html
[20:55:49] <eric_unterhausen> andypugh, I don't think they even bother to import them here
[20:55:49] <eric_unterhausen> at least duckduckgo doesn't think so
[20:56:47] <CaptHindsight> Miller time here
[20:59:41] <CaptHindsight> Syncrowave 300's within 200 miles of Chicago $3500, >200 miles $1800
[21:00:19] <CaptHindsight> worth the drive I guess
[21:00:36] <andypugh> pay a minion to drive for you
[21:01:17] <eric_unterhausen> closest synchrowave to pedo-lion university is syracuse, 180 miles away
[21:02:10] <RyanS> I hate you Americans with your abundant supply of used machinery
[21:02:11] <eric_unterhausen> of course, here in pensyltucky, you have to search for "welder"
[21:03:24] <eric_unterhausen> actually when you spell syncrowave properly, it turns out there are some in pittsburgh
[21:03:36] <RyanS> It makes me want to move there and dodge bullets and just to get to the used machinery :P
[21:04:01] <eric_unterhausen> just don't go out jogging in Oklahoma, you'll be ok
[21:04:04] <CaptHindsight> after a wile you don't even notice the bullets
[21:05:22] <eric_unterhausen> don't tell anyone, but I didn't even hear any shooting during deer season
[21:05:27] <CaptHindsight> in a few more years there won't be many left here that know how to use the old tools
[21:05:48] <eric_unterhausen> ya, especially after the yale incident
[21:06:15] <RyanS> I like how those 3-D printed guns get all the attention, but you can build a gun with a lathe
[21:06:35] <CaptHindsight> it's new and scary
[21:06:56] <theorbtwo> RyanS: Even better, you can build a gun that won't blow up in your hand, and will last for more then one firing!
[21:06:56] <eric_unterhausen> I was having that discussion with my mother
[21:06:59] <eric_unterhausen> I lost
[21:07:10] <CaptHindsight> I met the guy that started all the fuss up in Milwaukee last summer
[21:07:32] <RyanS> I wonder if making your own gun has the same implications as buying one
[21:08:01] <CaptHindsight> lots of laws on what you can and can't do as well as selling what you make
[21:08:01] <andypugh> It's 0251 here. I reckon I could make a gun by dawn, using conventional tools.
[21:08:05] <RyanS> As far as a licence so
[21:08:11] <eric_unterhausen> talk about tools that I couldn't be trusted with http://youtu.be/QzOKtYSe5-E
[21:08:15] <CaptHindsight> similar to alcohol
[21:08:58] <CaptHindsight> I so want to pass out 50 of those at a middle school
[21:09:04] <theorbtwo> Just remember: guns don't kill people -- bullets do.
[21:09:13] <CaptHindsight> hijinks ensues
[21:09:14] <Tom_itx> ppl kill ppl
[21:09:30] <Tom_itx> haven't seen a bullet do it by itself yet
[21:09:35] <RyanS> would be cool to make a model cannon and don't even care if it's functional
[21:09:42] <eric_unterhausen> I just hope my neighbor doesn't clean his guns in my general direction
[21:09:53] <eric_unterhausen> I have a functional carbide cannon
[21:10:05] <RyanS> People with guns kill people
[21:10:23] <Tom_itx> or cell phones
[21:10:36] <eric_unterhausen> or testosterone
[21:10:56] <RyanS> Not as easily
[21:11:01] <CaptHindsight> corporations that puts thousands of people out of work to make higher profits kill people as well, only slower
[21:11:39] <andypugh> RyanS: Ban people!
[21:12:58] <RyanS> Speaking o corporations gun manufacturers stand to lose profit by any reforms that make it more difficult to buy guns
[21:13:31] <CaptHindsight> really big and powerful pro gun lobby here in the US
[21:13:35] <RyanS> They have an interest in also letting insane purchase them without a background check
[21:14:07] <CaptHindsight> they also let the insane run the corporations and trade on wall st
[21:14:09] <eric_unterhausen> ya, anytime some kookoobanananuts person shoots up a group of people, gun sales go through the roof
[21:14:35] <RyanS> I could never understand why that didn't get through when even NRA members supported tbackground checks
[21:14:53] <theorbtwo> Not sure that's all that true. If anything happens that will make the cost of guns at retail go up for obvious reasons, you can be sure that 200% of the additional costs will be passed on to the consumer.
[21:14:54] <RyanS> The only explanation would seem to be the manufacturers have influence
[21:15:27] <theorbtwo> If you make it so that existing guns have to be disabled and made unfireable, then people will buy new guns.
[21:15:28] <CaptHindsight> bullets are in short supply
[21:15:42] <eric_unterhausen> a large group of single-issue individuals have outsized political power in the u.s.
[21:15:58] <eric_unterhausen> if you are willing to ignore everything else
[21:18:49] <RyanS> I guess I just don't understand how the debate is of a series of slogans from gun lobby that seem to ignore the statistics
[21:20:15] <andypugh> The simple fact is that in countries with fewer guns, fewer people get shot.
[21:20:37] <andypugh> Whether that is good or bad is a different question,
[21:21:08] <theorbtwo> andypugh: I saw some interesting things the other day. The number of homicides don't go down terribly much as you reduce gun ownership.
[21:21:27] <theorbtwo> When guns got cracked down on hard in London, more people got killed by knives.
[21:21:28] <andypugh> I am prepared to believe that more than hallf the people who get shot are better shot than alive.
[21:21:41] <theorbtwo> The number of *suicides*, however, goes down dramatically.
[21:22:07] <theorbtwo> Shooting yourself is manly, painless, and hard to get wrong.
[21:23:34] <Tom_itx> not like you get alot of practice with that
[21:24:00] <owhite> thanks for your help people.
[21:24:04] <RyanS> Okay, but I don't know of too many mass public knifings because it's hard to kill a mass of people with a knife
[21:24:45] <RyanS> Nobody is going to try and tackle someone with a repeating rifle, unless they want to die
[21:24:52] <RyanS> Or don't care
[21:25:14] <eric_unterhausen> the number of people that get shot by their own guns would be funny
[21:25:32] <eric_unterhausen> if it weren't for the fact that we taxpayers get to support them after they go on disability
[21:26:00] <theorbtwo> I suspect a large number of people who shot themselves with their own gun accidentally are misreported suicide attempts, actually.
[21:26:02] <eric_unterhausen> wonder if support would go down if that accounting was more obvious to people
[21:26:46] <theorbtwo> eric_unterhausen: You the taxpayer probably aren't giving people on disability nearly enough support, IMHO.
[21:26:58] <theorbtwo> True there and here, and we give a lot more support.
[21:27:06] <theorbtwo> (I'm an american expat living in the UK.)
[21:27:13] <eric_unterhausen> well, if it was some stupid gun negligence that caused it, we are supporting them too much
[21:27:42] <andypugh> Murder rate in the UK is 1.2, US is 4.7. France is 1.1. However Switzerland is 0.7 (and they have a lot of guns, but not because they want them). Canada is 1.6. El Salvador is 69.2!
[21:27:51] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
[21:28:34] <eric_unterhausen> I have stared down the barrel of a loaded gun twice at shooting ranges
[21:28:40] <skunkworks> andypugh: here in america - we don't believe in facts.. (unless they are supporting our argument)
[21:28:51] <RyanS> , although they have regular inspections and background checks in Switzerland, which is the US gun lobby not go berserk about
[21:28:54] <eric_unterhausen> both times I realized this was the case when the person said, "why won't my gun fire?"
[21:29:10] <RyanS> They would go berserk sorry
[21:29:19] <eric_unterhausen> my boss keeps inviting me to gun ranges, I laugh
[21:30:05] <eric_unterhausen> worst part of when someone is pointing a gun at another person at a military range is the screaming
[21:30:21] <eric_unterhausen> when the range supervisor notices
[21:30:51] <eric_unterhausen> second time it happened, I put my gun on the ground and went to the back of the range before he noticed
[21:31:09] <RyanS> Have you seen the advertisements for "the ideal riflefor your kids first gun"hilarious but quite scary
[21:31:37] <RyanS> Good fun for the whole family
[21:35:08] <eric_unterhausen> gunfail at dailykos is always good for a laugh or two
[21:35:21] <andypugh> I like shooting, I shot for my college at University. But I don't like people who like guns.
[21:35:42] <eric_unterhausen> I like shooting too
[21:35:53] <eric_unterhausen> it was a lot better in the boy scouts, adult supervision
[21:36:16] <theorbtwo> I've never tried. Should fix that sometime.
[21:36:18] <eric_unterhausen> lots of people in machining because of guns, I like a lot of them
[21:36:59] <eric_unterhausen> the air force adopted the 9mm, that was an amazing piece of machinery, I understand the fascination
[21:37:47] <RyanS> How on earth do you bore rifle barrels . Obviously extremely long drill bits
[21:38:02] <skunkworks> they are acutally called gun drills
[21:38:10] <RyanS> I know they have specialised machines to do it, but
[21:38:43] <andypugh> I handled the archetypical 007 Walther PPK a long time ago. It is definitely an exquisite "thing" in the same way as a Wohlhaupter boring head. But I have much more use for the boring heads.
[21:39:39] <eric_unterhausen> actually, they replaced the 38 with the 9mm
[21:40:00] <eric_unterhausen> I would have been better at using the 9mm to defend myself by using it as a hammer
[21:40:12] <eric_unterhausen> because you had to be smarter than the gun to actually get it to fire
[21:40:21] <eric_unterhausen> I don't always qualify
[21:41:56] <RyanS> Have you seen this movie with George Clooney called The American? He manufactures a silencer in a hotel room using hand tools
[21:46:54] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, I just watched that a month ago
[21:47:19] <eric_unterhausen> I didn't quite figure out if he made the gun blow up on purpose or if he was just incompetent
[21:47:56] <eric_unterhausen> if you reach into your rear pocket,and your wallet has a trigger, don't pull
[21:48:18] <RyanS> I don't remember that bit, but it reminded me of some old Frederick Forsyth novel
[21:48:38] <eric_unterhausen> he delivers the weapon, it turns out it's meant for him
[21:48:47] <eric_unterhausen> spoiler non-alert
[21:49:40] <theorbtwo> Sounds like somebody got really pissed off watching the New Yankie Workshop.
[21:49:42] <RyanS> poor George
[21:50:00] <eric_unterhausen> well, he starts out the movie by killing his girlfriend
[21:50:07] <eric_unterhausen> because he figures she ratted him out
[21:50:40] <eric_unterhausen> so I can't feel too sorry for him
[21:51:18] <RyanS> . Why do the women go after George is really quite old
[21:51:30] <eric_unterhausen> well, we know about the prostitute
[21:51:39] <eric_unterhausen> he was paying her a lot
[21:53:50] <RyanS> They use them for this luxury watch and I don't even think he is wearing it "$1 million without the watch, 2 million with the watch"
[21:53:55] <DaViruz> andypugh: i like guns :)
[21:54:02] <DaViruz> mostly for technical reasons though
[21:54:13] <RyanS> him*
[21:55:43] <DaViruz> the same way i like other technical things like engines, machine tools etc
[21:56:03] <RyanS> luxury watch commercials are like the epitome of advertising 'selling dreams'which is really like most non-essential item advertising
[21:59:12] <eric_unterhausen> I stopped wearing a watch when I got a cellphone
[22:00:05] <RyanS> More accurate as well, assuming they synchronised to timeservers
[22:00:14] <eric_unterhausen> seems to be
[22:00:39] <theorbtwo> RyanS: Most cell phones will automagically synch to a time signal they get off of the cell tower.
[22:00:43] <R2E4> I lose my cell phone as much as I did my watches
[22:01:09] <theorbtwo> ...sadly, dispite having an extremely accurate clock internally to maintain frequency, they have horrible time signals.
[22:01:36] <theorbtwo> Why? I have no clue.
[22:55:04] <jdh> anyone know welders? Miller Syncrowave 180SD any good?
[22:55:34] <atom1> i got a small miller wirefeed
[22:55:49] <atom1> like it better than lincoln because of the better feed mechanism
[22:55:56] <somenewguy> Isnt that the one weldingtipsandtricks guy has?
[22:56:38] <jdh> dunno. one on craiglist for $1200 with argon bottle
[22:58:41] <atom1> is the date shown on the bottle?
[22:59:20] <atom1> mine are small enough i just swap them out
[23:01:19] <tjtr33> Do Charles S or Michael H ever come here?
[23:01:20] <tjtr33> http://www.steinhoff-automation.com/DACHSview.htm looks interesting, 0MQ msging & Visual programming for BBB
[23:03:56] <tjtr33> http://beagleboard.org/project/RT+DACHSview-Bone/