#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-12-16

[00:21:11] <t12> hah! small world
[02:13:41] <Deejay> moin
[07:04:20] <FreezingCold> psha[work]: Could you please not publicly log this channel? It's technically not against the rules I believe, but it's frowned upon
[07:05:01] <archivist> FreezingCold, this channel has many public logs
[07:05:18] <FreezingCold> archivist: It's the only one that shows up on Google
[07:05:21] <FreezingCold> for me anyway
[07:05:51] <archivist> it should be mentioned in the topic
[07:06:32] <FreezingCold> archivist: is psha a dev or staffer here?
[07:07:00] <archivist> I have a public log too
[07:07:49] <FreezingCold> archivist: Really? Never come across it before
[07:08:17] <archivist> the channel has always been logged as far as I know, even from before freenode decided to change policy
[07:09:25] <archivist> I was asked to add my bot when one of the others was a bit unreliable
[07:09:30] <FreezingCold> ah well I guess we should just add it to the topic
[07:16:59] <Tom_itx> freenode suggests that you add it to the topic if you log it
[07:17:35] <skunkworks> we should add it to the topic.
[07:25:13] <psha[work]> FreezingCold: also there is full text search on that logs
[07:25:22] <psha[work]> for nearly 10yrs of history
[07:25:27] <psha[work]> google shows only small part
[07:25:35] <psha[work]> and yes, that's not by mistake
[07:25:54] <psha[work]> logs contain lot of important information
[07:26:23] <Tom_itx> i feel if you don't want it repeated, don't say it anywhere on the interweb
[07:29:27] <Tom_itx> psha[work] where do you find that information?
[07:29:33] <Tom_itx> i've heard about it befre
[07:31:01] <psha[work]> Tom_itx: i've patched logbot :)
[07:31:19] <psha[work]> logger[mah] is same bot but hosted on mah's server
[07:31:19] <logger[mah]> psha[work]: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-12-16.html
[07:31:26] <Tom_itx> i know but somewhere talks about blocking it, i'd like to add it to mine
[07:31:35] <Tom_itx> same as mine as well
[07:39:11] <psha[work]> Tom_itx: fixed version is living in my git at psha.org.ru
[07:39:31] <Tom_itx> i think i found it.. add metadata line to header
[08:27:20] <heinri3> magic33de
[08:27:41] <jdh> time to change your password
[08:28:00] <Deejay> lol
[08:28:10] <heinri3> hilfe von magic33de
[08:30:16] <jdh> or taht
[10:38:29] <Jymmm> Circa 1985... "Several hundred engines don't warrant an investment into CAD, all that's needed is a calculator, notebook, and two centuries of engineering knowhow" Hand carved Brazilian Mahogany engine casting molds http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HjvgmfPoJ5M#t=1672
[11:34:09] <Mr_Mayhem> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/12/16/0315250/want-a-fpga-board-for-your-raspberry-pi-or-beagle-bone Hmmmm. We were just yacking about this subject last night and lo and behold, a FPGA kickstarter project makes today's Slashdot.
[11:45:38] <Mr_Mayhem> The idea I asked yesterday was since Beagle Board Black runs linuxcnc, wouldn't it be nice to pair that with an Mesa FPGA daughter board "cape" to run the stepgens and encoder inputs. BBB handles realtime well and can do the stepgens by itself, but the FPGA could really turbo-charge it and maybe add capacity.
[11:52:50] <archivist> if you trawl the logs far enough back, you may spot something someone said on that subject
[11:52:53] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[11:55:58] <Mr_Mayhem> mornin
[12:04:22] <MacGalempsy> will a cold machine be more likely to have following error? It seems like I set it up, and now there is following error...
[12:04:56] <IchGuckLive> MacGalempsy: what is your following error in the ini maybe its to low
[12:05:16] <MacGalempsy> good call. let me go play with that a little
[12:27:51] <MacGalempsy> IchGuckLive: ok. the other part was that the drive faulted, doh
[12:27:58] <MacGalempsy> so it is going now
[12:28:31] <IchGuckLive> SMILE
[12:28:50] <MacGalempsy> thanks. it is finally warm enough to be working out in the shop
[12:38:20] <IchGuckLive> dont break the tools stay cool
[12:39:36] <somenewguy> no it aint
[12:39:41] <somenewguy> fan't feel anything
[13:02:05] <skunkworks_> cradek: is your fix for the accel constraint violation in master?
[13:02:10] <skunkworks_> hmm - it looks like it is..
[14:02:17] <vikingsraven> hi, stillaving ises wes wes wes wes wes wi
[14:03:57] <vikingsraven> hi still having issues with my y axis aand this keyboard as well
[14:14:08] <vikingsraven> sorry about that wireless keyboard decided to freek out.
[14:15:06] <vikingsraven> trying to set up my y axis on a gravograph engraver, ive got it to home but its working upside down, tried switching the direction to reverse and still not playing ball.
[14:20:45] <skunkworks_> stepper machine?
[14:20:55] <skunkworks_> negate the 'scale' for that axis in the ini
[14:20:57] <vikingsraven> pitch and speed seem to be ok im not having luck with the home and travel location, the bed is 350mm wide homing puts the bed towards the front of the unit and they x axis to the right.
[14:22:04] <vikingsraven> i can get it to home in the correct direction setting it to negative but if i set as follows it doesnt jog the full range, probably user error( more than probable)
[14:23:46] <vikingsraven> home location - 20, table travel 0 to -350 home switch location 0 home search -10, this will home and then move the bed 10mm forwards but if i try joggin it it only moves 20mm
[14:26:13] <archivist> -350?
[14:26:37] <vikingsraven> ive tried + 350 as well and it does the same thing
[14:42:13] <DaViruz_> Jymmm: that F1 turbo era documentary was raally interresting, especially when they're working on the engine management
[14:43:17] <Jymmm> DaViruz_: I didn't get past when they were working on it at 4am. Found the hand carved wood molds interesting though.
[14:43:42] <DaViruz_> indeed it was
[14:44:05] <Jymmm> And they were using machinst measuring tools too it seemed
[14:50:00] <Jymmm> Deep Fried Bacon Cheddar Mashed Potatoes On A Stick
[15:49:00] <Jymmm> WOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpnERlsfBFc
[16:07:03] <uw> rhats not cnc
[16:10:13] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: there was an angry buffalo and a surprised lion ;-)
[16:10:24] <Loetmichel> "aaaairtiiiime!"
[16:10:28] <Mr_Mayhem> that big lion got rotated about its a axis.
[16:10:48] <Jymmm> He just walks on over, gets right at the loins rear hip, and BAM!
[16:11:23] <Loetmichel> it was a juvenile lion, but yeah, not really a pleasant surprise for the lion
[16:11:55] <Loetmichel> nice neck muscles for the buffalo...
[16:12:18] <Mr_Mayhem> I wonder what motor controller the buffalo was using.
[16:12:28] <Loetmichel> lifting a 50-100kg lion 5 meters up in the air without showing any effort ;-)
[16:12:46] <Loetmichel> Mr_Mayhem: i would think: adrenaline ;-)
[16:13:08] <Mr_Mayhem> hehe, good name for a speed-up plugin. hehe
[16:13:30] <uw> yea i really dont know which i would least want to be in a room with
[16:13:35] <uw> water buffalo or lion
[16:13:41] <Loetmichel> i do
[16:13:46] <Loetmichel> the nice little cat
[16:14:42] <Loetmichel> "mieez, mieeez, come over here... GOOODkitty!"
[16:15:06] <Mr_Mayhem> The buffalo are always painted as helpless prey, but that video sort of opens that topic up.
[16:15:43] <Loetmichel> Mr_Mayhem: i have been riding a horse with some shire in it a long time ago
[16:16:28] <Loetmichel> 750kg of horse, 180cm from hoof to shoulder... and docile as a lamb. if the animal would have known its power....
[16:16:49] <Loetmichel> he once got startled by a misfire of a car...
[16:18:07] <Loetmichel> ... we found the door of his box in the stable on the other side of the stable... with 2 16mm steel hinge pins sheared off and 2 hoof iron imprints in the 10cm thick oak
[16:18:33] <Loetmichel> about a cm deep!
[16:18:45] <Loetmichel> s/hoof iron/horseshoe
[16:19:03] <andypugh> Sounds like more than 1 pferstark to me.
[16:19:11] <Loetmichel> a LOT more
[16:19:12] <Mr_Mayhem> Woa. That is some serious horsepower. :p
[16:19:13] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:21:24] <Loetmichel> it was about as friendly as it gets
[16:21:48] <Loetmichel> i was galloping through the woods with him once.
[16:21:59] <Loetmichel> without saddle (lucky me)...
[16:22:13] <Loetmichel> he saw a branch on a tree coming
[16:22:25] <DaViruz_> oh, so tha'ts what ps stands for
[16:22:28] <Loetmichel> ... put his head down... forgot about the rider...
[16:23:02] <Loetmichel> <- was hanging on the branch gasping for air a splti second later.
[16:23:07] <Loetmichel> slit
[16:23:09] <Loetmichel> split
[16:23:51] <Loetmichel> ... horse digged all 4 inthe ground, stopped, came trotting back looking at the mess he startet...
[16:24:21] <Loetmichel> trotted beneath me so i could slide from the branch into the non existing saddle and carried me home... ;-)
[16:25:06] <Mr_Mayhem> That's a very cool horse. Ha, I rode a horse or two as a kid, and it seemed so fast when it ran, it felt like warp drive through the tree lined part of the trail. Lucky I didn't wack a branch.
[16:25:55] <Mr_Mayhem> Funny how smart they can be too.
[16:27:17] <Loetmichel> let me tell you: horses are mostly dumb as fu*** ... but sometimes they get a "lit" moment... and they are REALLY reliable. one time a friend: EVER a friend.
[16:27:45] <Loetmichel> if you have a good connection to a horse it will die for you.
[16:28:03] <Loetmichel> + willingly
[16:28:17] <Mr_Mayhem> Wow. I guess it helps to have a reliable supply of sugar cubes.
[16:28:31] <Loetmichel> s/sugar cubes/carrots
[16:28:43] <Loetmichel> or apples
[16:28:46] <Loetmichel> :-)
[16:31:44] <Mr_Mayhem> I hear goodle bought Boston Dynamics, the folks who made the robot cow that won't tip over when you shove it. They made some other crazy robots.
[16:32:19] <Mr_Mayhem> BBL
[16:33:42] <Loetmichel> you mean "robodog"?
[16:34:14] <Loetmichel> oh, "big dog" it was
[16:35:07] <kengu> the crazy thing. yes.
[16:35:53] <tom_R2E3> hopefully google will pump money in to them and speed up the development
[16:38:18] <Loetmichel> <- waiting for battlemechs emerging ont he field ;-)
[16:38:49] <andypugh> tom_R2E3: I think they are funded by DoD. They don't need Google money.
[16:38:51] <tom_R2E3> <- counting down to skynet going live
[16:39:29] <Jymmm> tom_R2E3: you're a lil late by 30 years or so
[16:40:01] <Loetmichel> tom_R2E3: i am working in that department ;-)
[16:40:04] <tom_R2E3> yeah but this time there might actually be some T101's
[16:41:09] <Loetmichel> <. is working overtime to get 50 of these out to the customer before friday: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412 ;-)
[16:42:05] <tom_R2E3> what is it? just looks like a pooter
[16:42:37] <tom_R2E3> is there anyone around who uses a CNC mill on a regular basis?
[16:43:08] <Loetmichel> a thin/zero client inside a 24" monitor. Shielded against eavesdropping
[16:43:10] <Loetmichel> me
[16:43:27] <Loetmichel> if you call a chinese CNC6040 a mill ;-)
[16:44:25] <tom_R2E3> I'm starting out on a Bridgeport retrofit
[16:44:50] <tom_R2E3> what physical buttons are necessary/nice to have?
[16:45:27] <tom_R2E3> eStop, main power on, spindle enable, coolent enable, feed override, speed override?
[16:45:56] <Loetmichel> last two as pots, please
[16:46:11] <tom_R2E3> yeah
[16:46:24] <tom_R2E3> spindle CW/CCW
[16:46:32] <tom_R2E3> PC power on?
[16:46:51] <tom_R2E3> if I have MPG, will I really want joysticks?
[16:47:15] <Loetmichel> i would add a "spindle reverse" and a mist enable
[16:47:25] <Loetmichel> and maybe a vacuum enable
[16:47:46] <CaptHindsight> self destruct just for fun
[16:47:58] <Loetmichel> no, PC should be on a seperate circuit anyways
[16:48:09] <tom_R2E3> maybe three position switch for coolent then, although I dont have a mist pump
[16:48:54] <tom_R2E3> I think i'll be able to destroy it without a dedicated button
[16:49:13] <andypugh> tom_R2E3: You probably want illuminated momentary switches for coolant. That way you can set up toggle behaviour such that G-code can turn it on when it is off, and the operator can toggle the state.
[16:49:20] <Loetmichel> wife calls. have to go to bed now ;-)
[16:49:27] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yTrVq3J96Y
[16:49:46] <tom_R2E3> pfft, it's alright for some
[16:50:55] <tom_R2E3> hi andy
[16:51:19] <tom_R2E3> I haven't figured out what to do about relays for coolant yet
[16:52:01] <tom_R2E3> momentary switch and a relay
[16:52:16] <tom_R2E3> then some clever wiring to make the circuit latching?
[16:52:22] <tom_R2E3> or just buy latching relays?
[16:53:52] <tom_R2E3> sorry, i'm asking naive questions
[16:54:47] <andypugh> No, just do it all in HAL.
[16:55:14] <tom_R2E3> i've bought mesa 5i25 and 7i77
[16:55:34] <tom_R2E3> but haven't wired anything up yet
[16:55:55] <tom_R2E3> so using coolent on/off as an example
[16:56:27] <tom_R2E3> I have a power circuit for the coolent pump and a 24v relay to operate it. Can the 7i77 operate this relay?
[16:57:10] <andypugh> So you can use a 7i77 input to read the button state, and a 7i77 digital output to operate the coolant relay and light the light on the switch. Then the toggle2nist HAL component does the logic. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/toggle2nist.9.html
[16:57:24] <andypugh> Somehow I think that the documentation could be more clear.
[16:58:00] <tom_R2E3> excellent, ok thanks
[16:58:46] <andypugh> The 7I76 field outputs are high side or sourcing type MOSFET drivers, that is they source positive voltage to a ground referred load. For example with a standard 24V field power, +24V connects to the 7I76s field power input (on TB1) and the outputs on TB5 and TB6 now source +24V power to loads. All 7I76 loads will have one side returned to ground or the negative lead of the 24V supply. The 7I76s outputs can drive loads of
[16:58:47] <andypugh> to 350 mA.
[16:59:15] <andypugh> Assuming that the 7i77 has the same output drivers as the 7i76, and the relay takes less than 350mA, then you should be fine.
[16:59:59] <andypugh> (There are flyback diodes included too, so relay switching is fine)
[17:01:01] <tom_R2E3> that's great
[17:01:29] <andypugh> What is the coil resistance of your relay?
[17:01:56] <tom_R2E3> so the 76 is the stepper version of 77
[17:02:02] <andypugh> Aye.
[17:02:17] <andypugh> I just happened to have that manual open, and not the 7i77 one.
[17:02:51] <tom_R2E3> I haven't bought the relays yet. I just know that currently they are on one of the BOSS cards which I plan to remove
[17:03:12] <tom_R2E3> was just going to buy some DIN rail relays from RS
[17:06:36] <JT-Shop> same but different http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/47-hal-examples/9518-pauseresume-button-using-one-input
[17:07:20] <JT-Shop> or http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/47-hal-examples/10494-toggle-flood-with-one-button
[17:09:16] <tjb1> hello JT-Shop and all
[17:09:22] <tom_R2E3> thanks JT, that's good info
[17:09:24] <JT-Shop> hi
[17:10:15] <Deejay_> gn8
[17:11:43] <tom_R2E3> andy - just having a quick look on RS, they're anywhere from 100 to 1000ohms
[17:11:47] <uw> bye Deejay_
[17:11:56] <Deejay_> bye uw :)
[17:12:28] <andypugh> 100 ohms is 240mA, so even that is OK.
[17:12:55] <andypugh> But little ones like http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/5330902/ are 8mA
[17:13:59] <andypugh> For coolant, this sort of thing is probably fine: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/relay-sockets/3416874/
[17:14:03] <tom_R2E3> is 3A ok for coolant circuit? yeah must be
[17:14:18] <andypugh> You have a 1hp coolant pump?
[17:14:28] <andypugh> Is it 3-phase?
[17:15:09] <andypugh> There was a banner ad for these super-slim relays: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=g2rv-relays_uk&searchType=Offers
[17:17:27] <tom_R2E3> the pump is single phase
[17:17:43] <andypugh> It's almost too easy then.
[17:17:55] <tom_R2E3> having said that, I need a new one. So yeah i'd buy a sinble phase one
[17:18:53] <andypugh> Mine is 3 phase, but that meant I had to add a capacitor to the switch panel to make it run.
[17:19:36] <andypugh> Not worth running a VFD for the coolant pump :-)
[17:20:17] <tom_R2E3> the relays in that last link have high coil resistance though 1.8k ohm
[17:20:33] <tom_R2E3> what machine have you got?
[17:21:16] <tom_R2E3> the pump on my machine draws from a tray which sits under the coolant catch tray thing
[17:21:26] <andypugh> I have an old Harrison milling machine converted to CNC.
[17:21:53] <tom_R2E3> so if you pull the tray out, it smashed the bottom off the bump..
[17:22:03] <tom_R2E3> pump*
[17:22:21] <tom_R2E3> smashes*
[17:22:34] <andypugh> This is mine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0celdfZmkA
[17:25:21] <tom_R2E3> that's a handy looking machine
[17:25:57] <tom_R2E3> loads of travel
[17:26:28] <uw> looks good andypugh how much was that
[17:26:40] <andypugh> I have a mini-mill too, but that just served to teachme that there is no point trying to convert a cheap machine on the cheap :-)
[17:27:12] <uw> word i went the same route. I'm making parts on the mini to convert my larger one
[17:27:23] <uw> "bootstrap mill"
[17:27:30] <andypugh> uw: I paid £700 for the base machine, and I haven't been keeping tabs on how much on the conversion. Probably about anouther £1500 in it.
[17:28:09] <uw> not a bad price really...for the size of the machine
[17:28:15] * JT-Shop respects people who can make a deb cause I've failed in 10 attempts
[17:28:33] <uw> did you have to scrape the dovetails or anything?
[17:28:45] <uw> or was it mechanically sound when you got it
[17:29:02] <andypugh> It seems to have had a fairly easy life.
[17:29:09] <andypugh> Probably came out of a school.
[17:29:50] <andypugh> It does other tricks too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTHY5U8v-U
[17:35:07] <uw> oh that is cool
[17:35:15] <uw> how much is that bit though D:
[17:37:35] <andypugh> The hob was £25 I think, from eBay. It looked smaller on the photos :-)
[17:46:47] <tom_R2E3> that is cool
[17:47:24] <tom_R2E3> did you put that motor on the dividing head?
[17:49:34] <tom_R2E3> one last question before bed:
[17:50:07] <tom_R2E3> Besides from eStop, and a main switch, can I wire everything to the 7i77?
[17:50:21] <tom_R2E3> (and PC on)
[17:52:29] <tom_R2E3> all my physical buttons I mean
[17:57:10] <Jymmm> tom_R2E3: Maybe you can wire PC ON to it too, (5V keep alive =)
[18:01:14] <tom_R2E3> that's messing with my head Jym
[18:01:59] <Tom_itx> the green wire
[18:06:57] <tom_R2E3> right, bed time. Thanks for your help
[18:07:06] <tom_R2E3> nighty noo noos
[18:42:38] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm a smartcar http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2013/09/04/e3eagdi6dl.jpg
[18:43:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'd walk before getting in smart car on the streets
[18:44:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: My arms reach both bumpers at the same time!
[18:45:02] * jthornton thinks Jymmm is a bot as we have never seen him
[18:45:08] <jthornton> lol
[18:45:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: This is what I think of smart cars http://i46.tinypic.com/v6875u.jpg
[18:45:38] <MacGalempsy> evening
[18:45:40] <Jymmm> jthornton: huh?
[18:45:53] <jthornton> just pulling your chain
[18:46:10] <Jymmm> jthornton: I just didn't understand the "see me" references is all.
[18:46:31] <jthornton> we have never seen a photo of you
[18:46:40] <MacGalempsy> http://www.moral-flexibility.net/archives/2007/09/18/smartcar-accident-photos-but-not-quite/
[18:46:55] <Jymmm> jthornton: What, like this is FaceBook or something?
[18:47:37] <Jymmm> jthornton: swpadnos has seen me live and in person many times =)
[18:47:47] * jthornton hates facebook
[18:47:59] <Jymmm> Heh, I have it blocked =)
[18:49:43] <jthornton> we are having chicken and dumplings tonight made with frozen dumplings
[18:49:51] <jthornton> I'll let you know how it is
[18:50:07] <jthornton> at least leftovers won't have soggy dumplings
[18:50:07] <Jymmm> Eh, dough is dough in chicken goo =)
[18:53:10] <terrym> Has anyone experience with linuxcnc as a robotic welder?
[18:53:34] <jthornton> alex_joni
[18:53:40] <andypugh> I quite like Smart cars, though they aren't as much fun as they should be (not like the original mini, that went exactly where you pointed it)
[18:53:52] <MacGalempsy> terrym: there is a good video of that on youtube
[18:54:03] <andypugh> terrym: Visteurs sold one.
[18:54:53] <andypugh> This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQO3IkQ0Lo
[18:54:58] <terrym> I had some detailed questions, I would like to implement one, DIY.
[18:55:33] <andypugh> You are more likley to find Visteurs on the mailing list.
[18:55:34] <terrym> I will check it.
[18:57:48] <MacGalempsy> reading through the manual, trying to get a relay to reset a fault, but not sure which module to use. any help?
[18:58:12] <andypugh> What does the module need to do?
[18:59:08] <MacGalempsy> andypugh: well, it moreso needs to be a button on the screen to reset
[18:59:43] <andypugh> I am not really understanding the question.
[18:59:44] <MacGalempsy> just unsure of how to go about that
[19:00:47] <MacGalempsy> while testing the amps, the drive occasionally faults, I have all the drives wired to one relay, and want to be able to hit a biutton on the screen to activate the relay
[19:01:08] <MacGalempsy> right now I am manually grounding the drive to reset it
[19:02:54] <Tom_itx> so tie a button to an io
[19:03:44] <MacGalempsy> i got the net command down, but not sure where to get the button to tie to
[19:03:46] <terrym> Sounds like you want the pyvcp,
[19:04:30] <terrym> The Python Virtual Control Panel
[19:04:35] <MacGalempsy> since there are so many interfaces, i got confused
[19:05:04] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/pyvcp_examples.html
[19:05:07] <terrym> It lets you create buttons, display things what ever, in a side bar on the screen.
[19:06:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/pyvcp.html
[19:07:29] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/screenshot.png
[19:07:33] <Tom_itx> there's an example of mine
[19:07:50] <andypugh> Temporarily I would be tempted to net reset iocontrol.0.coolant-flood => some IO pin
[19:09:26] <Tom_itx> how would you calculate the speed / feed on an engraving bit since it pretty much comes to a point
[19:09:56] <Tom_itx> i know the speed would be up there
[19:11:10] <andypugh> I guess in theory you would calculate it based on the depth of engagement.
[19:11:12] <terrym> I just run the spindle as fast as it will go and keep the feed slow enough the bit does not snap off.
[19:11:57] <Tom_itx> andypugh, so around .030 diameter?
[19:12:02] <Tom_itx> or thereabouts
[19:12:26] <Tom_itx> that could be a bit deep, i'll run some tests first
[19:12:34] <andypugh> I think terrym has described what folk do in practice.
[19:12:56] <Tom_itx> well that's what i did as well but i wondered if there was a more exact way to figure it
[19:13:02] <andypugh> I have only engraved anything once, and 0.1mm was a good depth.
[19:13:43] <Tom_itx> lettering a new face for my pendant
[19:13:46] <terrym> My engraving was on copper clad fiberglass PCB.
[19:13:49] <Tom_itx> once the bits get here tomorrow
[19:14:57] <terrym> Yes, plural, bits. I wipe out about 3 before figuring out a good feed rate.
[19:15:38] <terrym> Fortunately, I had a box of 10.
[19:16:37] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: thanks for the link.
[19:17:40] <Tom_itx> terrym, i've used small bits before: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/mills1.jpg
[19:19:11] <terrym> Then you have a good starting point.
[19:19:28] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:19:46] <Tom_itx> just kinda wondering what other do
[19:19:56] <terrym> The tip on the engraving tools is so small, it can snap off and at a glance one can not tell it is broken.
[19:23:08] <terrym> Good night all.
[20:00:12] <tjb1> Any of you good with electronics and know a way to reduce noise?
[20:00:20] <jesseg> perhaps so
[20:00:24] <jesseg> what sort of noise?
[20:00:31] <jesseg> Electrical, or audible?
[20:00:51] <Jymmm> tjb1 twisted pair shielding ,etc
[20:01:01] <tjb1> audible
[20:01:06] <tjb1> bluetooth
[20:01:20] <Jymmm> wtf is BT in CNC???
[20:01:20] <tjb1> I am doing something similar to this - http://blog.avrnoob.com/2013/11/lets-make-wireless-speaker.html with this chip - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-1pc-Bluetooth-stereo-audio-module-wireless-adapted-speaker-amplifier-audio-KRC-86B-V3-3/1458523920.html
[20:01:45] <tjb1> what is gas tank in CNC?
[20:01:48] <tjb1> ;)
[20:01:54] <tjb1> you ever get that replaced?
[20:03:39] <jesseg> tjb1, OK so please clarify, is it when you're playing music there is other sound in the speaker?
[20:03:53] <jesseg> or a constant hiss between songs?
[20:03:53] <tjb1> yes, static and hissing
[20:03:58] <tjb1> always when connected
[20:04:11] <tjb1> if i turn volume up full, it drowns it out
[20:04:26] <jesseg> what drowns what out?
[20:04:33] <tjb1> music on phone
[20:04:45] <jesseg> Music on phone drowns out what?
[20:04:52] <tjb1> the static
[20:05:04] <jesseg> oh, OK, so static doesn't get louder when you turn up music.
[20:05:09] <tjb1> no
[20:05:26] <jesseg> is your speaker amplified, or directly driven by the bt sound chip?
[20:05:45] <tjb1> amplified
[20:05:56] <tjb1> i am running bluetooth into line-in on desktop speakers
[20:06:12] <tjb1> klipsch speakers so they have their own amplification
[20:06:14] <jesseg> Is the chip made for amplified, or is it made to directly drive speakers?
[20:06:35] <tjb1> amplified
[20:07:03] <jesseg> let's see if I can find datasheet
[20:07:08] <tjb1> good luck
[20:07:09] <jesseg> there's a couple possibilities here
[20:07:31] <tjb1> i have 470 uF capacitor across power supply to chip now
[20:08:06] <jesseg> Also try a surface mount or short-leaded 1uF ceramic or mica/foil/tant cap
[20:08:20] <tjb1> 470 + 1 or just 1?
[20:08:25] <jesseg> one of each.
[20:08:40] <jesseg> The 470 is for the lower frequency, and the 1 is for the higher frequency noise
[20:08:46] <jesseg> but I don't think that is your problem..
[20:09:05] <jesseg> So if you can't find a datasheet how do you know whether it's designed for amplified speakers or for directly driving speakers?
[20:09:24] <tjb1> The person I am copying used an amplifier
[20:09:44] <jesseg> and his worked fine?
[20:09:53] <jesseg> was his that exact same PCB unit from ali?
[20:10:17] <tjb1> its the same part number
[20:10:26] <tjb1> doubt the supplier is the same
[20:11:07] <jesseg> Well, you can try adding caps to the input of the PCB, but my guess is that they did not design the board well and/or used underated caps
[20:11:27] <tjb1> got 1uF ready to solder once it heats up
[20:11:57] <jesseg> If there's hiss when you're playing a clean mp3 or whatever, the sound transfer is all digital from phone, over wireless, until it reaches the little PCB at the speaker.
[20:12:06] <jesseg> So the noise has to be coming from within the chip there..
[20:13:45] <tjb1> still a bunch of noise
[20:13:58] <tjb1> would adding the caps to the output somehow do anything?
[20:14:04] <jesseg> how long are trhe leads on the 1uF cap?
[20:14:14] <tjb1> .5"?
[20:14:40] <jesseg> I'd try making the leads on the 1uF cap (as well as the 470) as absolutely short as you can. Longer leads have more inductance
[20:14:59] <tjb1> well I cant really get them any shorter and solder
[20:15:10] <jesseg> adding caps to output would reduce the high frequency response, possibly damage the chip if it's a direct PWM output.. but it'd reduce intended sounds as well as the noise.
[20:15:11] <tjb1> not enough hands :P
[20:15:13] <jesseg> oh OK good enough
[20:15:58] <jesseg> The problem is probably in the way the PCB is layed out, and how the audio DAC is set up with insufficient bypass caps right by it
[20:16:00] <tjb1> ground to signal on outputs?
[20:16:07] <jesseg> Huh?
[20:16:12] <tjb1> for the capacitor
[20:17:00] <jesseg> It's too late in a long day for me to figure out partial sentences.. Sorry..
[20:18:01] <tjb1> Do I add the capacitor from ground to channel out?
[20:18:08] <jesseg> Nope.
[20:18:26] <jesseg> If you did, it would reduce both high frequency noise AND high frequency music sound. Would sound muddy
[20:18:40] <tjb1> So positive
[20:18:41] <jesseg> Capacitor needs to be connected across power and ground
[20:18:43] <jesseg> yes
[20:20:27] <tjb1> Time to tell seller it is garbage
[20:20:42] <jesseg> yeah I think so
[20:20:45] <jesseg> what did it cost you?
[20:20:53] <tjb1> $15
[20:21:27] <jesseg> hehe including free shipping from china?
[20:21:56] <tjb1> yes
[20:22:05] <jesseg> lol
[20:22:26] <tjb1> oh well
[20:22:36] <jesseg> don't bother the seller. You knew you weren't going to get good quality hifi stereo equipment for $15 delivered from china.
[20:22:42] <jesseg> They probably spent $14 on shipping ;)
[20:22:57] <jesseg> It does *work* - you could use it for a hands free speaker or something for voice.
[20:23:32] <tjb1> Bunch of chinese on the box, I couldn'
[20:23:38] <tjb1> couldn't tell you what they paid
[20:25:33] <jesseg> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Encoder-400P-R-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder-400p-r-AB-phase-encoder-6mm-Shaft-new-/171122637698?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d7b43b82
[20:25:40] <jesseg> that make nice cheapo jog encoder :P
[20:26:48] <Tom_itx> i prefer one with detents
[20:26:57] <jesseg> yeah
[20:27:29] <tjb1> Well thanks jesseg, I will try to find a higher quality chip
[20:28:07] <jesseg> I made one once with magnetic detents. I took an old stepper motor from a floppy drive, took out all the copper, and put two hall affect sensors phased just right to make quadurature signals. The remaining stepper teeth in there provided the magnetic detents.
[20:28:19] <jesseg> tjb1, sounds like a plan.
[20:28:54] <tjb1> now to attend to the 3d printer which committed suicide printing replacement extruder gears
[20:29:00] <jesseg> hey tjb1
[20:29:13] <tjb1> ?
[20:29:25] <jesseg> it says "Power supply and power amplifier board"
[20:30:11] <jesseg> but that might be another product
[20:30:29] <jesseg> Before giving up, try connecting unit to non-amplifiied speaker or headphones.
[20:31:02] <jesseg> If the PCB is made for non-amplified speakers, its output may be a little noisy at the low level (which you wouldn't notice on non-amplified speakers)
[20:31:33] <jesseg> furthermore, some cheap audio amplifier chips put out unfiltered PWM - which works great with unamplified speakers but very well could create hash sound in amplified speakers.
[20:32:51] <tjb1> I was trying to put it in these - http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers
[20:33:34] <jesseg> those have built in amplifiers
[20:33:50] <jesseg> I definitely suggest trying your little cheapo board with non-amplified speakers or headphones
[20:34:15] <Tom_itx> how big are those encoders?
[20:34:25] <jesseg> if that works, then there is hope -- a circuit you can add to scale down the signal and remove a whole lot of the noise -- but only if non-amplified speakers work good
[20:34:25] <Tom_itx> i've got a few small 400 count ones
[20:34:39] <jesseg> they look like the regular size to me, Tom_itx
[20:34:57] <jesseg> 6mm shaft
[20:35:14] <jesseg> Size: 38mm Dia, 35.5mm Length
[20:36:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/focusring1.jpg
[20:36:11] <Tom_itx> these are alot smaller
[20:37:13] <jesseg> and those are 400ct?
[20:37:41] <Tom_itx> yes
[20:38:09] <Tom_itx> no
[20:38:11] <Tom_itx> 500 sry
[20:38:21] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/focusring12.jpg
[20:38:25] <Tom_itx> zoom in on that
[20:40:15] <jesseg> what is that thing?
[20:40:46] <Tom_itx> surplus medical equipment
[20:40:52] <Tom_itx> focus ring for something
[20:41:02] <jesseg> yeah I guess so :P
[23:02:51] <CHNCguy> hey hey guys ;)
[23:07:26] <jesseg> howdy CHNCguy
[23:27:37] <CHNCguy> hi jesseq
[23:27:59] <Mr_Mayhem> hello
[23:28:06] <CHNCguy> sup mayhem
[23:28:20] <CHNCguy> did u get ur spindle output working?
[23:28:45] <Mr_Mayhem> Got my spindle wired and working, even spindle-at-speed pause.
[23:29:16] <CHNCguy> what was ur fix?
[23:29:28] <CHNCguy> brb gotta restart
[23:29:28] <Mr_Mayhem> Fun to watch this little chinese system act official all of a sudden.
[23:29:30] <Mr_Mayhem> ok
[23:31:53] <CHNCguy> back ;)
[23:32:02] <CHNCguy> so Mayhem how did u get it working?
[23:33:35] <Mr_Mayhem> Well, the larger breakthrough was to update to 2.5.3, but I had to find the deb file, download it to my usb memory stick and copy it over, right click and run it.
[23:33:54] <Mr_Mayhem> One deb file for the doc update too.
[23:33:58] <CHNCguy> the deb file? the source file?
[23:34:05] <Mr_Mayhem> The it simply worked.
[23:34:12] <Mr_Mayhem> Yes, one moment.
[23:34:18] <CHNCguy> k
[23:34:54] <Mr_Mayhem> This is the magical directory from where all good things come: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/lucid/v2.5_branch-rt/binary-i386/
[23:35:20] <Mr_Mayhem> Now you have to choose the right one, like the holy grail in Indiana Jones.
[23:35:33] <Mr_Mayhem> Choose wisely, my friend. No I will tell you.
[23:35:48] <CHNCguy> lol
[23:35:51] <CHNCguy> the last one?
[23:36:08] <Mr_Mayhem> Yep
[23:36:11] <Mr_Mayhem> linuxcnc_2.5.3.78.g5901d68_i386.deb
[23:36:30] <Mr_Mayhem> Then grab the highest english docs too. EN
[23:37:07] <CHNCguy> I recently got an update to use 2.6 or the master file in the buildbot, are u using a lathe or mill?
[23:37:13] <CHNCguy> mill i think it was right?
[23:37:30] <Mr_Mayhem> Mill.
[23:37:44] <CHNCguy> cool, got a video of it running yet?
[23:37:49] <Mr_Mayhem> If you want to call it that. hehe, just the YooCNC 6040
[23:38:34] <Mr_Mayhem> No, I have to get the driver cards first, 2 went south on me. Cheap crap still. Gonna get Leadshine or Geckos.
[23:39:17] <Mr_Mayhem> Note, that's the YooCNC with the new black control box. Still crap, but nice VFD.
[23:39:59] <Mr_Mayhem> linuxcnc-doc-es_2.5.3.77.gbf5e29f_all.deb is the docs latest.
[23:40:24] <CHNCguy> cool, I have leadshine hybrid servos, almost ready to test them ;)
[23:40:38] <CHNCguy> i have them on the bench running
[23:40:43] <CHNCguy> but not on my machine yet
[23:40:55] <Mr_Mayhem> Here is the page for my machine:
[23:40:56] <Mr_Mayhem> http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc6040-series/cnc-6040z-s80-new-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html
[23:42:25] <Mr_Mayhem> The mechanicals are quite decent, the electronics are tossable, ungrounded unshielded spindle, water pump motor needs a tiny ceramic capacitor, vfd seems nice with analog speed, modbus, spindle at speed relay, etc.
[23:42:42] <CHNCguy> cool
[23:42:43] <Mr_Mayhem> What are you running?
[23:42:57] <CHNCguy> I have 2 CHNC lathes and a knee mill
[23:43:41] <CHNCguy> these 2 lathes are my first attempts at linuxcnc
[23:43:41] <Mr_Mayhem> Nice. What kind of things do you make generally?
[23:45:54] <Mr_Mayhem> I am having a go at making some desktop electrostatic loudspeakers. I did some basic prototypes in acrylic, and I was really hooked by the quality of the sound, so I got a bit more serious and redoing a more sophisticated wire design with pcbs and everything.
[23:46:03] <CHNCguy> well, its kinda weird, my hobby is converting machines, no so much making this LOL
[23:46:10] <Mr_Mayhem> heh
[23:46:27] <CHNCguy> I have converted probably 20+ with mach 3
[23:46:48] <CHNCguy> but even being 2 weeks into linux, I like it alot better
[23:47:27] <Mr_Mayhem> Wow, that's a lot of conversions. What is a typical machine look like? Any links?
[23:47:53] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, there is a learning curve, but its nice when you get familiar.
[23:48:27] <CHNCguy> I convert industrial machines, ive done haas vf-2, mazak qt 20, lots of cnc routers, a couple of knee mills some lathes
[23:48:40] <CHNCguy> the only record I have is of the ones I am doing now
[23:48:51] <CHNCguy> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/200960-hardinge_chnc_ii_sp_conversion_mach_3_a.html
[23:49:48] <CHNCguy> I initially wanted to convert these to mach 3, but with all the cool things with linux, i decided to go with linux
[23:50:29] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, and no fee for the os, or for the app.
[23:50:58] <CHNCguy> yup, my biggest problem with mach 3 was reliability and stability
[23:51:49] <Mr_Mayhem> Wow, you really break them down. Reliability > windows not a realtime os, yeah.
[23:52:23] <Mr_Mayhem> That lathe needs an exorcist. hehe
[23:54:05] <Mr_Mayhem> I guess the refits rely on some way of getting motors on there.
[23:55:05] <Mr_Mayhem> Adapters or whatever. Never did a refit. Might when I actually go to the next machine, but I don't know the specifics on the different strategies.
[23:58:05] <CHNCguy> lol
[23:58:25] <CHNCguy> well its kinda like jump in
[23:58:50] <CHNCguy> I like retrofits, makes me money, and its a hobby
[23:59:37] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah. Figure out what is needed. But there are popular conversions too I saw.