#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-23

[00:23:38] <RyanS> You can't use a rotary table as a turret? Needs to have a locking mechanism?
[01:04:33] <NickParker|2> sorry DC'd. I believe you need a locking mechanism yes.
[01:37:36] <_DJ_> moin
[02:05:01] <RyanS> This sounds hideous http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmIpBgK3tzo
[02:25:53] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:34:00] <RyanS> I keep thinking you're Irish? :P
[02:37:19] <Loetmichel> *grrr* i seem to have no luck with cheap ebay NiMH batterys. just bougt an eight pack alledgedly 4800mah... put tem on the computer charger and made 5 cycles discharge/charge... result: 0mAh 412mAh 417mAh 414mAh 413mAh discharged. and over 600mAh put in every time :-(
[02:37:53] <Loetmichel> .. i had put the price into account so i dosn't expected more than 2400mAh... but less than a TEHNTH of the advertised capacity?
[02:38:47] <Jymmm> Why NiMH ?
[02:39:17] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: and what size?
[02:39:17] <Loetmichel> mignon
[02:39:20] <Loetmichel> AA
[02:40:42] <Jymmm> Energizer's are pretty good, but high internal resistance. the Sanyo evelope (?) are suppose to be the best with low internal resistance
[02:41:31] <Loetmichel> if i wanted to spend big $ i would have bought eneloops.
[02:41:38] <Loetmichel> i wanted "cheap"
[02:41:59] <Loetmichel> and already expected a bit of over-avertizement
[02:42:01] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Ok, so you got a cheap fuck =)
[02:42:06] <Loetmichel> advertisement
[02:42:24] <Loetmichel> but not less than a tenth
[02:42:38] <Jymmm> you got fucked good? lol
[02:43:01] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: tried DX for cheap?
[02:43:41] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: you could say that.
[02:44:26] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, that sucks
[02:45:51] <Loetmichel> i meand: i expected the cells to be less than its printed on values. but they're plaun unuseable. less than 20 year old nicd-cell in capacity, horrifying internal resistance (charging at 1,5A brings the voltage up to nearly 2V!) and self discharge that ONE night sitting on the desk halves the capacity...
[02:46:38] <Jymmm> ebay has a new policy on that stuff
[02:46:48] <Jymmm> get what your ordered
[02:49:19] <Loetmichel> btw: thats the second time i had this kind of "fun" with Ebay AA cells... should have learned the first time :-(
[02:51:02] <Loetmichel> i even made me a battery holder with thick Contacts the last time: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14292
[02:54:02] <archivist> aldi or lidl cheap nimh are probably better
[02:56:51] <Loetmichel> probably
[02:57:55] <Loetmichel> i mean: a bit low performing for cheap is OK in my opinion. but plain unuseable is not.
[03:05:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://www.amazon.com/Combo-Tenergy-Premium-2500mAh-Rechargeable/dp/B00B4JJTIA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1385196522&sr=8-2&keywords=AA+tenergy
[03:05:21] <archivist> I have a load of lidl ones but I dont use them enough so they die from lack of use
[03:05:52] <Jymmm> archivist: I hate when that happens
[03:06:51] <Loetmichel> archivist: i have a pack of panasonic "red amp" subC-cells here. From the 80ties. was my first "e-plane-model" pack...
[03:07:00] <Loetmichel> abused countless times
[03:07:25] <Loetmichel> (discharged in 3 min in the plane, charged in less than six on a Car battery)
[03:07:42] <Loetmichel> ... STILL have 1600 of the 1700mAh advertized left.
[03:07:56] <Loetmichel> THATS what batteries should be like ;-)
[03:08:08] <Jymmm> archivist: I have one flashlight with rifle bore attachment that I use when cleaning my firearms. The thing was low so I go to change the battery and the damn thing is leaking, yet still working.
[03:09:51] <Jymmm> Energizer and Duracell both have a guanrtee if their batteries ever leak in a device, they will replace the device (actually they usually just send you a check instead).
[03:10:45] <Jymmm> and send you like $10 in free battery coupons too.
[03:11:33] <Jymmm> They'll even send a pre-paid shipping label if you ask.
[04:09:10] <RyanS> Are the majority of single phase machine tools split phase-induction motors? Although my bandsaw seems to be a capacitor start
[04:09:49] <RyanS> split-phase*
[04:12:32] <archivist> capacitor provide a second phase(split)
[04:13:05] <archivist> some only use the cap to start, some keep it in circuit for run too
[04:15:20] <RyanS> I guess corded power tools , use the same? could even use DC motors and a transformer
[04:16:22] <archivist> no they use a universal motor with a commutator
[04:19:22] <RyanS> hehe just as I read the same thing right now in Wikipedia. Interesting; can operate on ac and dc
[04:19:42] <RyanS> or
[04:31:37] <RyanS> So I think you or someone here mentioned that a single phase motor cannot be run in three-phase.. You can't disconnect the startingcoils and just rewire the main coils into a star on Delta arrangement?
[04:33:15] <RyanS> no... not enough poles
[06:31:29] <kengu> you know. it is not good for the router bit to drive it to a screw. I just want to share my findings (:
[06:38:55] <Jymmm> Also not good if you drive a router bit into wood at 180 IPS =)
[06:39:23] <kengu> Jymmm: but that was the end of the previous bit
[06:39:47] <kengu> short living expectance for bits around me
[06:39:58] <Jymmm> heh
[07:52:10] <mrsun_> http://imagebin.org/278541 first 3d routing.. a tad big stepover and tool but else im pretty happy with the results =)
[08:33:24] <JT_Shop> what is it?
[08:42:59] <Tom_itx> a cap start motor will have a larger cap than a run cap
[09:51:22] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmYqUSDch8
[09:51:42] <mrsun_> hmm is it possible to do a touch of routine that does not require mdi mode ?
[09:52:17] <Tom_itx> gcode
[09:52:37] <Tom_itx> err that may be probe
[09:52:48] <Tom_itx> same thing really
[09:53:11] <mrsun_> i want a button by the Z axis so i do not have to go to the computer to go into mdi mode and press "touch of Z" ...
[09:53:26] <mrsun_> but i do not want to have to inject alot of gcode into my programs either :/
[09:53:34] <Tom_itx> you can run a subroutine from the button
[09:53:41] <Tom_itx> and it can have the touch in it
[09:54:12] <Jymmm> pre/post run
[09:54:13] <Tom_itx> tell it to update the current z tool offset
[09:54:31] <Tom_itx> pre
[09:55:11] <Tom_itx> it would take longer since you would want to feed slowly not knowing the tool length
[09:55:20] <Jymmm> No, I mean setup a pre run gcode fiel that is executed for every job, then not even a button is needed
[09:55:34] <Tom_itx> maybe he likes buttons
[09:56:14] <mrsun_> thing is that i need to hold a touchof plate in place while it touches of, and its 2 meters from the computer
[09:56:16] <mrsun_> :P
[09:56:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And you have a purrty mouth, whats your point?
[09:56:20] <mrsun_> i do not have that long arms
[09:56:35] <mrsun_> thats why i want a button by the machine so i can hold the plate there, and press the button to make the touchof
[09:57:16] <Tom_itx> you could have the tool go to a predetermined 'touch off' location and touch off too
[09:57:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: =)
[09:57:37] <mrsun_> if i had a stationary Z touch of thingie then it wouldnt be a problem, then the machine goes to 0, 0 or something and checks the tool
[09:58:05] <Tom_itx> if it is not stationary, how will you know it's actual thickness to compensate the z offset?
[09:58:45] <mrsun_> if i lay it on the material and i know how thick the plate is ... ? :P
[09:59:07] <Tom_itx> ok
[09:59:22] <mrsun_> as working with wood is crap and every time you get a new piece its a different thickness
[09:59:39] <mrsun_> just as the humidity goes up 0.01% the damn things expand by 200%
[09:59:39] <mrsun_> :P
[10:03:38] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/index.php/italian/forum/10-advanced-configuration/25994-abort-msg-in-o-sub
[10:03:46] <Tom_itx> partially relevant
[10:10:16] <Tom_itx> http://timeguy.com/cradek/01262579508
[10:17:16] <mrsun_> hmm that last one was nice, but how does linuxcnc know when it has reached the probe point? :)
[10:17:26] <mrsun_> ahh
[10:17:30] <mrsun_> probe input signal :P
[10:17:32] <mrsun_> figures :P
[10:18:06] <mrsun_> hmm need to experiment with this =)
[10:32:19] <JT_Shop> motion.probe-input or something like that
[10:48:39] <ries> Hey Guys, are there any open source software to create toolpaths from a STL object with rotary exis?
[11:22:31] <jthornton> anyone speak spanish? does this sound correct? encontrar la máxima velocidad
[11:23:05] <ries> encontrar as in find?
[11:23:10] <ries> @jthornton
[11:23:41] <jthornton> yes the english is finding maximum velocity and finding maximum acceleration
[11:23:54] <ries> Let me ask my lady.... But I think it's buscar la máxima velocidad
[11:24:00] <jthornton> I just used google translate
[11:24:05] <jthornton> ok thanks
[11:24:59] <ries> jthornton: I asked my lady.. she said : encontrar la máxima velocidad
[11:25:13] <jthornton> thanks
[11:25:38] <ries> 9 years in Ecuador, my spanish is still bad :D
[12:04:37] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:47:52] <Loetmichel> *GNAH* $me is dumb as fu**... just emptied the dishwasher... reached for the cutlery basked, didnt see the cheese knife poking out... it came back with the hand as i redraw. ... $me is putting a bandaid on the "mini vampire bite mark"... and cleaning up the blood all over the place... *shi** :-(
[13:15:11] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: its weekend
[13:15:24] <Loetmichel> so?
[13:15:35] <IchGuckLive> never mind the worse
[13:15:48] <Loetmichel> ???
[13:19:02] <IchGuckLive> dishwasher acident
[13:19:40] <IchGuckLive> im off have a nice weekend where ever you are in the world BYE
[14:01:05] <JesusAlos> hi
[14:02:11] <kengu> hello
[14:02:52] <JeAl> JesusAlos change my nickname for JeAl
[14:03:23] <kengu> 21:45 < JesusAlos> hi
[14:03:23] <kengu> 21:45 -!- JesusAlos is now known as JA
[14:03:23] <kengu> 21:45 -!- JA is now known as JeAl
[14:09:00] <JeAl> http://imagebin.org/278586
[14:09:07] <JeAl> why appear this error?
[14:12:06] <kengu> your z is going too far to min
[14:13:19] <kengu> home offsets and homing sequence conflicting with limit switch position
[14:20:52] <lautriv> is there still somewhere a d/l location for EMC ?
[14:24:03] <lautriv> .... or any version NOT based on canonicals <censored>
[14:29:58] <kengu> lautriv: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Wheezy_Linux-Rt_Compile_LinuxCNC
[14:31:44] <lautriv> kengu, thanks a lot, if i had found that, it would save a half day before ;)
[14:33:05] <kengu> i knew there was that. and usually I just google "[whatever] debian" when I need something that is not ubuntu (:
[14:35:28] <kengu> JeAl: ?
[14:38:45] <lautriv> ii have no idea why linuxcnc choosed the worst distro ever.
[14:39:49] <JeAl> yes
[14:41:01] <kengu> still conflict?
[14:42:40] <JeAl> don't know how solve.
[14:42:47] <JeAl> but change "minimum limit+ home Z" in stepconf wizard to "Home Z"
[14:42:52] <JeAl> and run ok
[14:43:32] <mrsun_> hmm microswitches as home/end position sensors good or bad? :)
[14:43:38] <mrsun_> (wood router)
[14:43:55] <kengu> JeAl: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html
[14:45:53] <JeAl> Thank, I try after dinner
[14:46:11] <JeAl> My wife call to me
[14:46:15] <JeAl> see you late
[14:46:18] <JeAl> thank again
[15:52:00] <gene78> Hi all
[15:53:14] <gene78> I have an unkown operation error in some looping code, pointing at this line
[15:53:20] <gene78> o100 call [#<_rcx_temp>][#<_lcx_temp>][#<_bcy_temp>][#<_fcy_temp>]
[15:53:37] <gene78> everything is defined. ideas?
[15:55:18] <gene78> oh wait, the o100 sub accesses those directly, so I'll take those arguments out
[15:55:55] <NickParker> Is it possible to program a "startup sequence" using the 6i25?
[15:56:10] <gene78> didn't help same unk op error...
[15:56:42] <NickParker> e.g. put this pin that never gets used again high, then put dir low and pulse step twice, then put that first pin low and move into regular operation?
[15:58:26] <NickParker> ok actually nevermind, this is a pretty ridiculous plan. simpler question: can i use my 6i25 for some high frequency pwm and use my motherboard's parallel port for everything else (step signals etc)
[15:58:50] <andypugh> NickParker: You probably can, but it seems like waste :-)
[15:59:07] <NickParker> andypugh: well my mill i'm retrofitting has unipolar 4 phase steppers
[15:59:17] <NickParker> and i've wasted alltogether too much time messing around with them.
[15:59:32] <NickParker> well, messing around with converting step/dir into the phase inputs they take
[15:59:55] <NickParker> so i'm just going to use software stepgen at this point, and deal with all of that when i have the mill working to make simple pcbs
[16:00:07] <andypugh> I don't expect that there are any unipolar 4-phase firmwares for the 6i25, but there _might_ be.
[16:00:28] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that PCW has code to do it, just not packaged for 6u25
[16:01:24] <NickParker> PCW?
[16:01:34] <andypugh> Hang on, though, Normally you would still use step-dir even with unipolar motors, you would just use a unipolar 4-phase drive.
[16:02:20] <NickParker> andypugh: the motors take 8A per phase, and I haven't found any (economical) 4 phase drives that big. Plus I've already got drivers for them with phase inputs
[16:02:57] <andypugh> How many wires do the motos have?
[16:03:19] <andypugh> "Unipolar" is typically a feature of the drive, not the motor.
[16:03:43] <NickParker> 6 wires per motor
[16:04:14] <NickParker> B2,BCOM,B1,A2,ACOM,A1
[16:04:29] <andypugh> Ignore the COM wires and use a bipolar drive.
[16:05:27] <NickParker> Doesn't that cost me half my resolution? Not to mention 3 new drives
[16:05:43] <andypugh> no and yes
[16:06:30] <andypugh> But on the plus side, you get twice the torque
[16:06:35] <NickParker> Oh I suppose any drive I got would do microstepping huh, so I would probably gain resolution..
[16:10:06] <NickParker> I guess I'll do that come christmas. For now I have to go feed myself. ty for the help andypugh
[16:30:31] <_DJ_> gn8
[17:16:56] <pcw_home> NickParker: the stepgen firmware can generate just about any pattern but the driver doesnt know how to set it up
[17:17:43] <pcw_home> Its probably possible to do it with raw-write to setup the setgen mode however
[17:18:11] <pcw_home> stepgen mode
[17:37:02] <andypugh> Des the FPGA re-allocate pins on the fly if you enable a 4=pin mode?
[17:40:45] <pcw_home> if the config has 4 stepgen outputs that its possible to dynamically chneg from 0,1,2,3,4 pin output modes
[17:41:01] <pcw_home> s/that/then/
[17:41:07] <pcw_home> change
[17:41:31] <pcw_home> so its doable with just raw write
[17:42:09] <pcw_home> (with some fairly magic hex constants)
[17:46:47] <pcw_home> you would write 1's in the DDR and AltSrc register bits that control the additional stepgen outputs
[17:46:49] <pcw_home> than write the sequence length to the sequence length register and the pattern to the pattern register
[17:46:50] <pcw_home> (in reverse order: step3 pat,step2 pat, step1 pat, step 0 pat)
[17:50:32] <NickParker> i'm back. so you're saying I could get my 6i25 to do phase outputs?
[17:56:03] <NickParker> pcw_home: You say the stepgen firmware, is that the software stepgen I'm thinking I'll use since 6i25 can't do my drives, or stepgen ported over to 6i25?
[17:58:24] <andypugh> This is Hostmot2 Stepgen, already in the 6i25
[18:00:27] <NickParker> oh sweet. off to read some docs because i suspect you two have better things to do than walk me through this.
[18:04:17] <pcw_home> how many output pins per stepgen?
[18:04:55] <NickParker> pcw_home: if you're asking what I think you are, 4.
[18:05:14] <pcw_home> current max pins per stepgen is 6 and max pattern depth is 16
[18:05:31] <NickParker> I believe i only need a pattern depth of 8. that's the number of combinations of outputs essentially?
[18:05:52] <NickParker> I've got a very similar mill to the one kwallace writes about here: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/
[18:06:15] <NickParker> The only difference I've found is mine has a different spindle and spindle controller than his, but that's easily handled.
[18:06:50] <pcw_home> yeah so depth of 8 and width of 4 are fine
[18:07:02] <pcw_home> bbl shopping trip
[18:07:13] <NickParker> c ya
[18:18:44] <andypugh> NickParker: What you need to read is about raw mode here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#Raw%20Mode with reference to this file here: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=hostmot2-firmware.git;a=blob;f=regmap;h=b3a2a77c27de0c71278dc910992efeddd7deb577;hb=HEAD
[18:19:32] <NickParker> thanks anypugh. i was just reading this http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_example_configurations and about to ask where to find out what a volunteer should do next.
[18:19:51] <andypugh> But the "right" fix would be to fiddle with this file here: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/stepgen.c;h=0538d8a833be8d9f16a10d401f2934a5f01d5f6f;hb=2119397da5cd98be10452513251a00331d7d5743
[18:29:04] <NickParker> andypugh: I'm not sure what you mean by the "right" fix, but looking at the 1st file you linked, line 258 sounds like what i want. Make the stepgens cycle through a table of output combinations?
[18:30:30] <andypugh> By "right" I mean a fix that anyone else can use, ie add a way to tell the driver what sort of stepgen output you want.
[18:31:37] <NickParker> ah that may be a bit past me, since i only half know the language...
[18:32:11] <NickParker> and this file appears to have one comment which is "//FIXME" lol
[18:39:12] <andypugh> There are at least two "fixmes" and (in fairness) quite a lot of other comments.
[18:39:56] <RyanS> Is there a formula to calculate axial load in various milling operations? I've never come across one
[18:40:25] <NickParker> andypugh: ah you're right, ctrl+f "//" 78 results.
[18:41:32] <NickParker> I'll look at it a bit to see if the program structure springs out at me, but I'll probably want to move on to figuring out table driven stepgen from the other file.
[18:41:33] <andypugh> RyanS: I suspect it depends largely on imponderables.
[18:42:19] <andypugh> NickParker: The main function of stepgen.c is to convert values on HAL pins into values in registers.
[18:43:14] <RyanS> hmm but machine designers need to calculate axial load on the spindle bearings, surely?
[18:47:18] <RyanS> diameter of the cutter, feed rate, depth of cut I imagine would be major contributors
[18:47:54] <archivist> the cutter can pull into a cut, not that simple
[18:52:18] <archivist> negative/positive rake, climb v conventional, blunt v sharp cutter and the material , wood v a work hardening metal
[18:54:04] <andypugh> lubrication
[18:55:19] <andypugh> The answer might be "it needs to be as strong as the Z axis"
[18:55:37] <RyanS> Right, so one would have to estimate the maximum loads likely to be encountered and desig the spindle accordingly. Choose appropriate bearings etc
[18:56:57] <archivist> it is why industrial machine are built like tanks, to resist and flexing and load likely in service
[19:02:13] <RyanS> The reason I'm wondering is, I understand some of the reasons why you shouldn't mill with a drill press is; chuck cant take axial load, no drawbar, bearings not designed for axial, spindle taper too small (?) I've seen some milling of plastic and aluminium with a lighter cuts done.... The results were not and terrible and these were not large drill presses
[19:04:06] <andypugh> No, drills _can_ take axial load, that's their job. Radial load is the problem.
[19:05:47] <RyanS> oo but don't large drill bits have a lot of radial load? Or is that Z axis load (sorry I don't know the proper term)]
[19:06:59] <archivist> axial is along Z
[19:07:32] <RyanS> You mean perpendicular to Z?
[19:08:23] <archivist> axial means through the cylinders axis (along Z)
[19:10:54] <RyanS> yeah you would encounter that when traversing the cutter on x right?
[19:12:25] <RyanS> oh i see, I'm confusing radial with axial
[19:14:05] <RyanS> axial is exactly what a drill press is designed, upwards pressure on the bearing
[19:19:39] <andypugh> This web page quites cutting force and much more. http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard
[19:20:29] <andypugh> I have used it a few times, and it seems functional.
[19:21:02] <RyanS> cool thanks
[19:24:34] <RyanS> Haven't taken delivery but I'm converting a 1.5kw three-phase drill press, mt4, seems quite rigid . I wonder if it would be safe (and not damage the bearings) with a Collet chuck, compound table to take conservative cuts in plastic, aluminium, brass?
[19:25:13] <RyanS> mt4 is ridiculous, but that's what it came with
[19:26:38] <archivist> just not designed for side cutting so you are likely to get some poor finish and broken tools, no climb milling should ever be done on it
[19:30:57] <RyanS> But conventional will be somewhat okay. I was just going to do some quick and dirty slots in plastic and aluminium, not too fussed about the finish
[19:31:33] <archivist> remember a slot has climb as well as conventional
[19:32:31] <RyanS> Because it's engaging both sides of the cutter?
[19:32:43] <archivist> yes
[19:32:53] <RyanS> So you better off sticking to pockets and edges
[19:33:53] <archivist> I would have said get a mill/drill machine if you had mentioned your milling use
[19:36:06] <archivist> fleabay 321256205158 I used to have a version 20 years ago, glad I got rid
[19:36:54] <RyanS> It's only something for a bit of practice, i needed something with more Z clearance that the benchtop drill press.. I intend to get a milling machine just not yet
[19:38:00] <archivist> while they can mill they are just not convenient to use as mills and mine was not square either
[19:38:13] <andypugh> Whereas they are not great machine tools, i do feel that every home should have one.
[19:38:40] <archivist> have/had, so you know what not to get :)
[19:39:02] <andypugh> I like the way that you can't open the belt guard without moving to the top of travel.
[19:39:05] <archivist> was a reasonable drill actually
[19:39:48] <RyanS> yeah, plus the existing bench drill had ran out, getting a bit noisy, etc
[19:39:49] <archivist> you lose any position changing height (round column)
[19:41:15] <RyanS> yeah so far . Most things I've worked on have just been turning and drilling shit
[19:42:25] <andypugh> I don't think you need machine tools for that.
[19:42:28] <archivist> oh and the effort clamping the column will screw your settings
[19:43:16] <RyanS> You need a lathe for turning shite
[19:45:13] <RyanS> Those RF 30 round column mills don't seem practical either
[19:46:29] <andypugh> Some have a keyway, so basically do work
[19:47:24] <andypugh> And there have been really good round-column things: http://www.lathes.co.uk/oerlikon/
[19:47:32] <andypugh> (Bigger than it looks)
[19:47:49] <RyanS> What's the deal with a drawbar on gear head drilling machines, is that to facilitate the use of a boring head?
[19:48:41] <archivist> vibration and digging in causes the taper to loosen, best to have a drawbar
[19:48:43] <andypugh> Or any other non-axial tool
[19:50:06] <RyanS> And I guess you are going to get vibration using the size of drill bits they do on those machines
[19:50:06] <archivist> and on large work the load is just too high for the taper and it can slip if not pulled in tight enough
[19:50:19] <RyanS> Makes sense
[19:51:13] <archivist> an then if it does slip ot may sieze and groove the sleeve or drill, a pain to repair
[19:52:40] <RyanS> I saw of those gearhead machines the other day... massive. Photos don't do justice
[19:57:44] <andypugh> On eBay: "Engineers Cube 18 x 10 x 12" Not a pedant's cube, that's for sure. 
[19:58:21] <archivist> I used a cube to raise the mills column :)
[19:58:54] <Tom_itx> is that like a toumbstone?
[19:59:46] <andypugh> We have so many cubes at work that they use them for holding down pergolas during events, then leave them out in the weather. It bothers me.
[20:00:27] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG
[20:01:16] <archivist> well worn one but at 25 quid was cheapish
[20:02:10] <Jymmm> archivist: is that a touch screen?
[20:02:21] <archivist> yes it was
[20:02:26] <Jymmm> size?
[20:02:51] <Jymmm> 15" 17" 21" ???
[20:03:01] <archivist> its dead, about 17
[20:03:27] <archivist> the PC was in it too
[20:03:40] <RyanS> engineers cube is that 123 block?
[20:03:50] <Jymmm> archivist: When it worked, was it easy enough to use , or seamed a tad small at times?
[20:04:20] <Jymmm> ...as a touch screen that is.
[20:04:21] <archivist> I never got the touch part working in linux
[20:04:26] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[20:04:58] <andypugh> I have a 17" and it seems a bit big. But I wouldn't want any fewer pixels. I would say that 15" and 1200x1024 was probably ideal if they exist.
[20:05:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: 15" touch at that resolution seems tiny to me.
[20:06:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: liek you would be fighting which control you are trying to touch
[20:06:19] <andypugh> You just have more pixels per control?
[20:06:28] <Jymmm> but smaller controls
[20:06:37] <andypugh> Why smaller?
[20:06:51] <Jymmm> higher res
[20:07:03] <Jymmm> controls get smaller on screen the hgher res you go
[20:07:11] <Jymmm> you are trying to fit more in the same space.
[20:07:11] <andypugh> Touchy rakes up the whole screen, regardless of resolution. The buttons just get more pixels each
[20:07:51] <Jymmm> a button still cant be smaller than a figer
[20:07:54] <Jymmm> finger
[20:08:17] <RyanS> Nice Frankenmill
[20:08:38] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GwJasYJB1sDpauT92DfiINMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink is mine, the screen is a bit big.
[20:09:12] <andypugh> The buttons are playing-card sized: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WAFKZNDs8P9oZeiXKTKNANMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:09:55] <archivist> just need to edit the gcode....
[20:10:33] <roycroft> how many buttons do you need on a screen anyway?
[20:10:38] <roycroft> my finger is about 1.5cm wide
[20:11:29] <andypugh> roycroft: It's just Jymmmm. His superpower is being wrong.
[20:12:21] <andypugh> And given that I appear to have become combatative, it's probably time to log off and sleep.
[20:12:26] <andypugh> Night all
[20:12:32] <roycroft> i have a 15" screen here which is 33x21cm = 22x14fingertips = 308 fingertips per screen
[20:12:57] <RyanS> Which finger
[20:12:57] <roycroft> i think you can operate a cnc mill with 308 buttons or less :)
[20:13:03] <roycroft> my button finger
[20:13:43] <Jymmm> roycroft: But can you label all 308 so you can read them too
[20:14:10] <roycroft> perhaps not very legibly
[20:14:25] <roycroft> but i also doubt i need 10% of that number to operate a mill
[20:14:37] <roycroft> and i could definitely label 31 buttons legibly on a 15" screen
[20:14:43] <Jymmm> and how much tolerance is there on where you have to touch one versus it's neghbors?
[20:15:11] <Jymmm> how much seperation is there in between buttons?
[20:15:36] <roycroft> if the buttons only require 10% of the total screen real estate, there can be plenty of separation
[20:15:40] <RyanS> Is that likeone button to cover each g-code command? :p
[20:16:12] <Jymmm> where does 10% of the screen come into play for 308 buttons?
[20:16:28] <roycroft> <roycroft> but i also doubt i need 10% of that number to operate a mill
[20:16:46] <Jymmm> ok, tthat's still 30 buttons on a 15" scren
[20:17:03] <roycroft> i don't remember how many buttons there are on a touchy screen, but touchy works fine on a 15" screen
[20:17:15] <RyanS> I thought you have to do everything in command line to be a 'real' linux used
[20:17:25] <RyanS> user*
[20:17:30] <Jymmm> That's BSD
[20:17:51] <roycroft> to be a "real" bsd user you just have to understand what you're doing
[20:17:53] <Jymmm> then you need a beard and suspenders too
[20:17:59] <roycroft> click and pray doesn't work
[20:19:03] <RyanS> I used here for the machinery talk, I think I have used linux once
[20:19:13] <roycroft> and i don't intend those statements as comparisons to anything else
[20:19:15] <roycroft> they stand alone
[20:20:50] <RyanS> I am just here*
[20:24:01] <RyanS> automation direct VFDs any good?
[20:28:42] <NickParker> so I've got a spindle controller that takes 0-10V input. What's the easiest way to work with that? I've got a 6i25 if it helps
[20:34:50] <cradek> EASIEST way is to get a mesa card with dac output, and wire it up
[20:38:42] <NickParker> +cradek: I assume you mean an external card not the 6i25? I'd kind of like to get this going since I have the next 8 days off. I've got a DAC in the mill, but it's a pretty stupid one in that it takes hex input.
[20:39:27] <NickParker> er, not exactly hex. it takes 2 4 bit binary numbers, one representing the 10s digit and the other the ones digit to represent numbers 0-99. stupid i know but that's what's in the original electronics..
[20:41:02] <cradek> hmm, from the mesa site: The 7I76 is a step/dir oriented breakout with 5 axis of buffered step/dir outputs, one spindle encoder input, one isolated 0-10V analog spindle speed plus isolated direction and enable outputs, one RS-422 expansion port, 32 isolated 5-32V inputs and 16 isolated 5-32V 300 mA outputs.
[20:41:40] <cradek> is that useful for you? depends what the rest of your machine is I guess.
[20:42:35] <NickParker> the 010V analog is the only part of that i would really need. my drivers don't take step/dir input.
[20:42:53] <cradek> what interface are your axis drives?
[20:43:25] <NickParker> phase inputs for 4 phase motors. so 4 pins per motor and to do half step drive i have to cycle through 1000 1100 0100 0110 0010 etc
[20:43:44] <cradek> ah
[20:43:58] <cradek> does the mesa stepgen do that?
[20:44:12] <NickParker> pending more money I'll probably switch over to just using bipolar drives, because andypugh tells me i'll double my torque with no downsides...
[20:44:25] <NickParker> nope. I'm currently reading the code to find out how to make it do it.
[20:44:52] <cradek> yeah bipolar is sure better - but won't work if you have 5 wire motors
[20:45:13] <cradek> but 6 or 8 is fine
[20:45:27] <NickParker> i've got 6 i'm almost certain
[20:45:36] <cradek> the software stepgen does all those kinds of patterns, but is of course slower
[20:45:37] <NickParker> oh wait definitely certain what am i saying
[20:45:55] <NickParker> yep. if I don't figure out mesa firmware tonight i'm just doing software stepgen until i can afford bipolars
[22:13:35] <MacGalempsy> evening