#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-16

[00:11:50] <Jymmm> Just get some quality taps from a machine supply place.
[00:12:15] <Jymmm> MORe importantly tapping fluid
[00:52:14] <jesseg> oh hi Jymmm
[00:52:24] <jesseg> I just looked back here and saw your comment
[00:52:45] <jesseg> but I first just ordered a HSS tap from McMaster Carr
[00:52:53] <jesseg> for $6.67
[00:53:09] <jesseg> so we'll see how it be
[01:19:36] <Jymmm> I like this stuff http://www.amazon.com/TAPMATIC-NATURAL-Cutting-Tappping-Fluid/dp/B0067BS4BI/ref=sr_1_49?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1384585413&sr=1-49
[01:33:04] <jesseg> Natural Tapping oil, huh?
[01:33:12] <jesseg> Is it what Nature uses when it's tapping ?
[02:02:17] <uw> soybean oil
[02:03:42] <_DJ_> moin
[02:03:45] <uw> harvested and pressed by people from tibet, while listening to peruvian flute music
[02:03:52] <uw> MOIN DJJJJJ
[02:03:57] <_DJ_> hi uwwwwwwww ;)
[02:04:36] <uw> Das Neue?
[02:04:53] <_DJ_> hm?
[02:05:07] <uw> LOL was neu
[02:06:12] <_DJ_> brrrrr, it's cold outside. about 1 degree celsius and foggy
[02:06:16] <_DJ_> how are you, uw?
[02:06:48] <uw> gut same stuff. it has been a while how is your business?
[02:07:02] <uw> it's 1deg out side over there?
[02:07:42] <_DJ_> yep, tnx, business is going well
[04:02:14] <MacGarage> evening
[04:02:50] <archivist> 9:46am :)
[04:31:40] <MacGarage> having a hellova time getting this motor to pid
[05:37:50] <MacGarage> finally success!
[05:39:35] <archivist> rest should be easy now
[06:24:07] <jthornton> yea
[06:25:54] <MacGalempsy> good morning guys
[06:26:19] <MacGalempsy> so after all said and done, it was just like someone said yesterday. just reverse the motor wires
[06:27:02] <MacGalempsy> so P is set with a following error of less that 1m
[06:27:27] <MacGalempsy> FF1 and FF2 are set at .0003P and .00005P
[06:28:04] <MacGalempsy> how do I go about I and D, do I need to?
[06:32:47] <jthornton> I and D are usually not used for a velocity drive
[06:33:22] <MacGalempsy> cool.
[06:33:36] <MacGalempsy> P ended up being 279
[06:33:43] <MacGalempsy> does that sound right?
[06:34:15] <MacGalempsy> that was less that 1m following error at 10in/min
[06:37:22] <jthornton> mine was P-550 I-0 D-0 FF0-0 FF1-1.8 FF2-0.017 for my X axis
[06:38:08] <MacGalempsy> did you tune ff1&2 or just go with the .03 and .005%?
[06:39:56] <jthornton> the % is a general guide so you know how little it takes, yes I tuned it the got the percentange
[06:40:08] <MacGalempsy> ok just read the rest of your article
[06:40:51] <MacGalempsy> and actually understanding it now. going to the garage to tray and fine tune ff1&ff2, then its on to figuring out how to trigger the z axis brake before a move
[06:43:23] <jthornton> you just release the brake when you power up the drive
[06:43:34] <jthornton> you don't want the brake on when the drive is on
[06:44:54] <MacGarage> oh that makes it easy
[07:53:51] <PasstScho> moin!
[07:57:57] <PasstScho> anyone experienced in generating own mesa firmware/configuration and might give me a hint where to start? I don't want to reinvent the world but i'd like a firmware that makes better use of my needs (like 5 stepgens (just step/dir!), 7 encoders(a,b,index), 2 pwm)...
[08:10:50] <jthornton> pcw_home, is your man for that
[08:12:28] <PasstScho> :)
[08:16:41] <Tom_itx> i've done a couple but you'd better get peter to guide you thru it
[08:17:29] <Jymmm> 3 limit switches, and a partridge in a pear tree!
[08:19:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you mucked with mesa firmware?
[08:19:23] <Tom_itx> just bit files a byte
[08:19:34] <Jymmm> ah
[08:20:03] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Thught you were being uber fpga code monkey on me!
[08:20:19] <Tom_itx> i've played with them a bit but nothing serious
[08:20:30] <Jymmm> gotcha
[08:21:06] <Jymmm> Hey, does anyone know tips on dip coating parts and getting an even surface/thickness?
[08:21:07] <PasstScho> i hope a little playing is all that i will need ;)
[08:22:12] <Tom_itx> Jymmm keep the parts moving so gravity doesn't affect the coating
[08:22:54] <MacGarage> guys PID tuning is gonig well on the first axis. I am down to ferror of .0009
[08:23:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: it's dipping in the wax you suggested, how do I keep em anti-gravity =)
[08:23:17] <MacGarage> average is .0007
[08:23:19] <Tom_itx> or cool them real quick
[08:23:31] <Tom_itx> cool the material before dipping?
[08:23:35] <Tom_itx> heck i dunno
[08:24:35] <Jymmm> We all know if oyu have something vertical and spray paint (or whatever), there's always that lil blob on the bottom corner
[08:25:00] <Tom_itx> flow the wax over the material on a conveyor like chocolate factories do
[08:25:05] <archivist> electrostatic painting
[08:25:21] <Tom_itx> i wasn't sure about electrostatic if wax would work there
[08:25:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Need to do both sides
[08:25:36] <Jymmm> archivist: molten wax?
[08:25:40] <Tom_itx> used to work next to a electrostatic paint booth...
[08:26:05] <archivist> I see wax as a waste of time and effort
[08:26:14] <Tom_itx> do one side, cool, protect the bottom and rinse and repeat
[08:26:17] <Jymmm> archivist: compared to?
[08:26:34] <archivist> sensible methods
[08:26:38] <Tom_itx> why do you need to cover the ss anyway/
[08:26:39] <Tom_itx> ?
[08:26:44] <Jymmm> archivist: such as?
[08:26:50] <archivist> etching resist
[08:26:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: electro etching
[08:27:29] <Tom_itx> yeah you may be better off with purpose built materials
[08:27:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ?
[08:28:34] <Jymmm> archivist: Do you know of one that srays on and dries almost instantly?
[08:28:46] <Jymmm> sprays*
[08:29:15] <Tom_itx> Homebrew electrolytic etching - posted in Finish and ... I used nail polish for a resist, but in subsequent experiments found that it ...
[08:29:46] <Tom_itx> bees wax?
[08:29:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/21790-homebrew-electrolytic-etching/
[08:32:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Oh, I get it now... I can just dip the whole thing, then invert the piece in the air till it solidifies
[08:33:15] <Tom_itx> the silk screen doesn't sound like a bad idea
[08:34:02] <Tom_itx> i do UV paint with one
[08:34:25] <Jymmm> If I do the wax, then I can just engrave the artwork with the laser to vaporize the wax, then electro etch
[08:34:26] <archivist> just pay someone who does it in production
[08:34:44] <Tom_itx> i'm thinkin he's the 'someone'
[08:35:16] <Tom_itx> i went to a sign co and they were very helpful and even gave me some UV paint samples
[08:36:34] <Tom_itx> the wax may vaporize too big a pattern doing that
[08:36:44] <Tom_itx> or melt and run
[08:36:44] <Jymmm> archivist: I can't afford the $8000 in punch press dies
[08:36:52] <Tom_itx> make your own
[08:37:12] <archivist> I said an etch company
[08:37:21] <Jymmm> archivist: why?
[08:37:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: what fluid are you going to etch in?
[08:37:29] <archivist> google photo etch
[08:37:52] <archivist> cheap setup cost for low qty
[08:39:30] <Tom_itx> or even silkscreen mask?
[08:40:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/uv_paint.jpg
[08:40:46] <CaptHindsight> silkscreen photoemulsions are low cost but he doesn't want to use them, he's stuck on wax
[08:40:59] <Tom_itx> i suggested wax
[08:41:06] <Tom_itx> maybe he'll listen :)
[08:41:17] <Tom_itx> it would take longer
[08:41:21] <CaptHindsight> he's be asking about this the past couple of days
[08:41:27] <Tom_itx> i know
[08:41:36] <Jymmm> blame Tom_itx for that
[08:41:36] <archivist> will be another 6 years of pontification to go yet
[08:41:39] <Tom_itx> gtg...
[08:41:57] <CaptHindsight> same answers, but expecting different results perhaps?
[08:42:34] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: No, I asked about even coating of wax. Others kept bringing up different coatings
[08:42:52] <Jymmm> /methods
[08:42:55] <CaptHindsight> so what is wrong with wax?
[08:42:57] <archivist> unrealistic setup cost expectations v qty of production
[08:43:53] <Jymmm> I can do 8 at a time, nt too bad
[08:43:56] <Jymmm> not*
[08:44:12] <Jymmm> more if I make fixtures
[08:44:50] <Jymmm> I can reuse the wax, and Just use low heat to remove it, not a chemical bath.
[08:45:09] <Jymmm> hell, just hot water for that matter.
[08:45:19] <CaptHindsight> sounds great, problem solved
[08:45:38] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: And you are being an ass, why?
[08:46:08] <CaptHindsight> is there something else besides wax you'd like to try?
[08:46:32] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: you jumped in the middle of a conversation. I'd suggest to scroll back
[08:47:41] <Jymmm> All I asked about was even dip coating. archivist was the one that brought up other methods/dismissed the wax idea.
[08:48:22] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it's been dragging on for days, wax sounds great, dip it in wax
[08:48:37] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: no fucking shit?
[08:48:55] <CaptHindsight> if that doesn't work out, try something else, you'll learn by trying
[08:49:03] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If you dont what to hear it, toss me on /ignore
[08:50:07] <CaptHindsight> I thought you were looking for encouragement
[08:50:31] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: For the third time... 2013-11-16.06:31:55 Jymmm: All I asked about was even dip coating.
[08:50:38] <CaptHindsight> wax is pretty safe to try, low cost
[08:51:07] <CaptHindsight> yeah, dip coat into wax or maybe some other fluid
[08:51:44] <CaptHindsight> photoemulsions used in silkscreens are also low cost and relatively safe
[08:52:04] <CaptHindsight> and they are easily removed
[09:02:43] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: WHAT do you want to coiat? and why?
[09:02:46] <Loetmichel> -i
[09:03:15] <Loetmichel> ah, scrollback helps.
[09:03:26] <Loetmichel> pcb electro etching
[09:04:07] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[09:05:09] <Loetmichel> maybe an ikea square glass vase filled with blackened parrafine in it, and the whole thing in a second container with hot water... and then just dip the boards in and pull tehm out
[09:05:12] <Loetmichel> should work
[09:05:49] <Loetmichel> i suppose the laser works better with black stuff than with clear parrafine way?
[09:05:52] <Loetmichel> wax
[09:30:48] <MacGarage> it was a good night thanks everyone!
[10:09:34] <jthornton> got chips?
[10:11:24] <PetefromTn> Mornin' folks..
[10:15:56] <JT_Shop> morning
[10:29:12] <PetefromTn> JT_Shop: Hows it goin man.
[11:11:36] <JT_Shop> busy busy busy...
[11:15:02] <ju-emb> I know, I asked that before here but I forgot:
[11:15:04] <ju-emb> how do I know from inside a python script where the actual used config files reside
[11:16:35] <ju-emb> I like to loadusr a python script and access files that I put in the same directory as the config files are
[11:17:27] <ju-emb> sorry that was the wrong tab i should ask that on de dev
[11:48:37] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[11:50:09] <IchGuckLive> someone knows about tmart.com cheep rablets ? http://de.tmart.com/promotion/Blowout-Sale.html?cc=eur&gclid=CL3Qg5TB57oCFUlf3godjUwATA
[11:51:20] <Loetmichel> ... that second attempt in PCB milling looks WAY better... a sharp engraving bit is essential ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14507 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXxjT4nNxg
[11:53:23] <IchGuckLive> nice job is it a vaccuum table
[11:53:53] <kwallace2> That feed rate seems a bit high, but I haven't made any boards so...
[11:56:10] <kwallace2> The board looks good with the picture at full scale.
[11:57:22] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: can you get a look on this cheep tablets for my projekt
[11:58:43] <Loetmichel> ich: no vacuum table... double sided tape ;)
[11:58:56] <IchGuckLive> nice to know
[11:59:00] <Loetmichel> kwallace2: the feed rate was at 70%
[11:59:26] <Loetmichel> because at 100% the whole macheine will wiggle that much taht the cellphone cam wont do any good
[11:59:57] <Loetmichel> it can do F1500 without problewms or inaccuracies when engraving PCBs ;-)I
[12:00:35] <kwallace2> I thought the copper would tear at that feed rate but your spindle speed must be high enough to keep up.
[12:01:45] <Loetmichel> 24krpm
[12:58:46] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel what is the chip load at that rate?
[12:59:37] <Tom_itx> that's the key factor
[13:05:25] <Tom_itx> that and surface speed which are related
[16:28:38] <_DJ_> gn8
[17:35:10] -sendak.freenode.net:#linuxcnc- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
[18:18:55] <MacGalempsy> eveing
[18:19:01] <MacGalempsy> evening ;)
[18:19:26] <Tom_itx> tis so
[18:20:49] <MacGalempsy> just woke up about an hour ago.
[18:21:09] <MacGalempsy> getting checked in for work, then having a buddy of mine come over to help figure out this electric door log
[18:21:11] <MacGalempsy> lock
[18:27:06] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: did you get that servo drive sorted out?
[18:29:54] <MacGalempsy> CaptHindsight: yes its working well
[18:29:59] <MacGalempsy> bout to get back out there
[18:32:02] <MacGalempsy> the PID tuning is interesting
[18:32:38] <MacGalempsy> i had it PID at 2340, and the Ferror average at cruise is 0.0006
[19:28:03] <Jymmm> $10 my butt!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlvqib94xQ
[19:29:46] <Valen> still probably cheaper than you would buy one for
[19:31:51] <maZer`-> hi all
[19:32:00] <Jymmm> DIY Check Valve... kinda cool... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG6own141z0
[19:33:23] <Jymmm> Valen: Yeah, but the welding cable used alone is at least $10
[19:33:54] <Jymmm> Valen: I just finished stripping my dead microwave =)
[19:34:29] <Jymmm> The check vlve water pump looks pretty good
[19:37:46] <Tom_itx> don't grab the cap
[19:39:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Heh, I haven't discharged it yet either =)
[19:40:58] <Jymmm> I should go do that right now before I forget, brb...
[19:41:07] <Tom_itx> don't use a screwdriver
[19:41:31] <Tom_itx> or your tongue
[19:43:03] <Jymmm> needle nose, and we're good. It has the hugest diode I've ever seen (to chassis ground)
[19:43:40] <Jymmm> as big as a pencil
[19:47:46] <Tom_itx> screw lug?
[19:48:08] <Jymmm> No, they crimped on spade rings
[19:48:16] <Jymmm> / lugs
[19:51:51] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the check valves have the problem of a very small "open diamenter"
[19:52:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah
[19:52:21] <Loetmichel> a smaller ball and a plate inside or a bigger tube after the valve would be better
[19:57:57] <Jymmm> Um, err, "simple"??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdVw5R4JBfc
[19:58:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Do you know what the cap is for in the microwave?
[19:58:39] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: simple in function, not in build ;-)
[19:59:01] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Not by watchign that video!
[20:00:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm way too much of a wuss to mess with KV's =)
[20:00:19] <Jymmm> Though, the spot welder I think I'll try.
[20:05:09] <Felix29> someone here good with speed/feedrates?
[20:05:28] <Tom_itx> we got charts for that
[20:05:40] <Felix29> yeah, but also for wood with small cutters?
[20:05:50] <Tom_itx> probably
[20:05:53] <Felix29> mine is more of a hobby machine that's homebuilt
[20:05:56] <Felix29> k, thx
[20:06:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.onsrud.com/plusdocs/Doc/index.html?model.code=FeedSpeeds
[20:06:38] <Tom_itx> http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=27011
[20:07:06] <Tom_itx> figure your chipload and adjust for what your machine will do
[20:07:35] <Tom_itx> chipload = x material per tooth per rev
[20:07:49] <Felix29> yeah, that I'll be able to calculate
[20:08:10] <Felix29> right now I am still using those cheap engraver bits, but I wanted to see what size bit goes with the machine
[20:08:13] <Felix29> thanks a lot!
[20:08:44] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[20:08:50] <Tom_itx> here's a couple more but not as good
[20:09:04] <Tom_itx> http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[20:10:30] <Felix29> well those are all for metal
[20:11:14] <Tom_itx> the first one should have some wood info in it
[20:14:22] <Felix29> yeah, got some info from the last one as well
[20:14:36] <Felix29> problem is my only speed comtrol atm is a pot
[20:15:09] <Tom_itx> got an encoder on the spindle?
[20:15:28] <Tom_itx> i added one from an old printer and now i have a tac on screen
[20:15:47] <Felix29> That's what I want to do next
[20:15:55] <Felix29> ideally with a feedback loop
[20:16:16] <Felix29> but I'm not sure yet, because messing that part up could be an expensive mistake
[20:19:32] <Felix29> Do you know of a cheap spindle around 1-1.5 hp with speed control?
[20:19:48] <Felix29> I was gonna look into routers, but they all go 8000 rpm minimum -.-
[20:20:06] <Loetmichel> define cheap
[20:20:24] <Felix29> less than maybe 400 bucks
[20:20:24] <Loetmichel> i have two chinese 800W watercooled spindles
[20:20:46] <Felix29> hmm, I think I've seen those before
[20:21:08] <Felix29> they looked nice, but they came with 220V VFDs as far as I remember. So that's a little bit of an issue right there
[20:21:32] <Loetmichel> ... which go from 30Hz to 400Hz (iE: 1800 rpm to 24krpm) althoug below 10 hz ther is not much torque
[20:21:35] <Loetmichel> 100 Hz
[20:22:02] <Loetmichel> IIRC the can be ordered with a 110V vfd also
[20:23:06] <Felix29> That's probably the best solution for me right now
[20:23:31] <Felix29> I don't get my axes moved much faster than 40 IPM, so I guess RPM should be more like 1500 instead of 30000
[20:24:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/1-5KW-WATER-COOLED-MILLING-AND-GRINDING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-WITH-INVERTER-DRIVE-VFD-bf-/181183016929?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item2a2f596fe1
[20:24:30] <Loetmichel> look at the voltage:
[20:24:57] <Loetmichel> "3) Voltage: 220V~250V (We also stock 110V~120V item for country like USA and Canada. Please contact us for item stock"
[20:25:50] <Loetmichel> ... just as an example
[20:26:10] <Felix29> Yeah, that one is 8k rpm and us though
[20:26:15] <Loetmichel> if you search on ebay.com you will find more i suppose
[20:26:26] <Loetmichel> dont bother
[20:26:28] <Felix29> instead of that one, I might try some Hitachi router or something
[20:26:33] <Loetmichel> they run below that
[20:26:40] <Felix29> yeah, I am looking around on there
[20:26:44] <Loetmichel> but the torque goes down
[20:27:08] <maZer`-> What is the best way to create a reference signal, use induction switch oder microswitch, or reflex sensor?