#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-10

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[01:11:10] <archivist> Norwich is fundamentally boring
[02:16:52] <_DJ_> moin
[03:23:13] <pingufan> Hi, can somebody tell me if (and how) LinuxCNC can communicate through a serial port with a client (PIC) ?
[03:24:38] <archivist> why do you think adding external PIC is the right thing to do
[03:25:05] <pingufan> I want to send some a command to a controller when I turn spindle on/off, and I want to receive status messaged from the monitor (PIC) which also shall act as a "keyboard" for major functions.
[03:26:41] <archivist> there is a spindle controller in hal just connect the pin to the parallel port
[03:26:43] <pingufan> I want to place there some buttons (emergency stop), a joystick, and also do some monitoring of the mill, and all this does not fit into one parallel port.
[03:26:58] <archivist> add a another port
[03:28:08] <pingufan> LinuxCNC already controls my spindle (turns it on/off), but it is belt-driven, so I want to monitor if it is really rotating, otherwise the tool will break.
[03:28:28] <archivist> there is a spindle at speed input
[03:28:48] <pingufan> No room for another port. This is a very compact miniITX board in a very compact enclosure.
[03:30:23] <pingufan> The spindle at speed input is permanently monitored, or does the system only wait until speed is reached?
[03:32:38] <pingufan> The reason is: I can either move so slow that it will work even with the toughenest material, or I get closer to the limits and add an emergency stop when spindle rpm go too deep.
[03:33:06] <pingufan> I am milling ALU, this is sometimes a chellenge.
[03:33:36] <pingufan> I broke hereby meanwhile several tools (2 mm dia).
[03:34:07] <pingufan> Monitoring is cheaper with time.
[03:36:53] <pingufan> As the PIC is far away from its limits with monitoring the spindle, I also want to monitor it some buttons (Emergency stop, 3-axes moves, ...).
[03:37:37] <pingufan> I am unsure if I do that through USB HID Keyboard simulation or (easier) through a serial port.
[03:38:02] <pingufan> archivist: Do you understand what I plan to do?
[03:38:18] <archivist> plenty have done keyboards via usb
[03:39:10] <archivist> but do read the integrators manual as you seem to not be doing that
[03:39:16] <pingufan> But this conflicts then with the real keyboard. Therefore I'd prefer serial port.
[03:40:00] <archivist> I am not aware of any conflicts with the keyboard
[03:40:02] <pingufan> I ask first about what is generally possible, before searching endless for something that does not exist.
[03:40:28] <archivist> I keep having to point you at stuff that does exists :)
[03:41:09] <pingufan> Example: The controller sends ESC - ESC - ESC - .... because the spindle stucks. And I am currently typing something on the keyboard. This will give a mixture of inputs.
[03:42:31] <pingufan> Can the HAL send/receive over serial port? No BIT-Fiddling, but sending/receiving data.
[03:45:35] <pingufan> Sending commands as DATA over serial port is a very flexible method, if it is supported to handle the DATA.
[03:49:35] <pingufan> archivist: can the HAL send and receive DATA over serial port (no need for realtime)?
[03:55:47] <pingufan> archivist: I find nothing about serial communication in the docs
[03:58:56] <pingufan> this is all I found (and has only dead links): http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/lucid/index.php/german/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/7886-sending-ascii-characters-to-serial-port-in-emc
[03:59:39] <pingufan> But this comes close to what I want to do.
[03:59:54] <pingufan> This documentation is really poor. :(
[07:00:54] <MacGalempsy_> morning all
[07:19:18] <jthornton> morning
[07:32:32] <MacGalempsy_> hows it going today John?
[07:34:06] <MacGalempsy_> had an busy evening, but have a first run of the INI file. your example helped a bunch, but there are still a lot of variables in the manual that are not in the pnc config file that was compiled
[07:35:06] <MacGalempsy_> however, its time to hit the sack. ttyl
[08:01:12] <PetefromTn> Morning folks.
[08:22:18] <JT_Shop> MacGlempsy_ if you read back read this againg about custom variables http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_custom_sections_and_variables_a_id_sub_custom_variables_a
[08:23:00] <JT_Shop> againg/again
[08:24:26] <Tecan> http://www.google.com.br/patents/WO2008021130A1?cl=en << HHO deposition patent filed 2008
[08:44:49] <Tecan> what would be better for metal deposition YAG or HE
[09:04:01] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: ALL fine in germany You have been wright the M880 takes mutch faster then the M542 i got up to 4500 ns in timing now its ok
[09:06:45] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: hi
[09:18:21] <sirdancealot3> ohai?
[09:35:12] <PetefromTn> MMMmmmm Hot Cocoa with whipped cream....
[10:10:47] <sirdancealot3> if someone wants a script that makes a continuity tester out of your zprobe https://github.com/koo5/cnc_stuff/blob/master/continuity_tester.py
[10:10:53] <sirdancealot3> oh hey thats a good description to put there
[10:54:36] <archivist> hrmph freecycle PCs seem to be worth what one pays for them :(
[10:55:12] <PetefromTn> LOL hey man ya get what ya pay for right .....
[10:55:18] <Tom_itx> free?
[10:56:00] <archivist> free in freecycle means just that
[10:57:30] <archivist> cant get my money back for a non worker or poor latency
[11:15:06] <skunkworks> but it was free!
[11:15:23] <skunkworks> Some of the best latency computer I have had where free
[11:17:11] <malcom2073> Heh, if it was worth something, it'd be on craigslist not freecycle
[11:18:15] <archivist> last time I looked at craigslist in the uk I got bored looking and finding nothing of interest
[11:18:55] <archivist> hmm any 72 dp gear cutters over the pond?
[11:19:31] <skunkworks> remember to check the hd... I have had a few that had pending relocated sectors that where high... causes pauses and reboots.
[11:22:54] <archivist> this came without a disk, was attempting to use a disk I had already setup, but its now failing to start at all
[11:23:39] <Tom_itx> bad caps?
[11:23:44] <Tom_itx> i've recapped a couple
[11:25:41] <skunkworks> me too
[11:26:04] <skunkworks> fixed about 80%
[11:33:06] <archivist> hmm finding 72 dp milling cutters seems a bit awkward to google
[11:33:52] <archivist> found one NOS on ebay canada but not the one I need
[11:38:13] <pzpz> hi
[11:38:50] <pzpz> someone here
[11:40:04] <pzpz> what cantroller to bay for my cnc?
[11:40:12] <sirdancealot3> how important is the latency/jitter stuff when just starting out, attempting pcbs and wood? I just set the jitter period to the 50000 because that was what it was approaching when i really stressed the computer. Is it more of a steel milling surface finish issue, or could it be causing me trouble?
[11:41:05] <pzpz> hi sirdancealot3
[11:41:10] <sirdancealot3> hi
[11:41:59] <pzpz> i'm new here.. now i'm only start to build my cnc machine
[11:42:36] <pzpz> do you know if linux cnc support ATC?
[11:43:09] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[11:43:13] <pzpz> hi IchGuckLive
[11:43:29] <IchGuckLive> hi ho ever you are
[11:43:38] <IchGuckLive> how
[11:43:38] <pzpz> i'm new here.. now i'm only start to build my cnc machine
[11:43:53] <IchGuckLive> oh welcome i got over 150 build
[11:44:06] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: where in the world are you from
[11:44:29] <pzpz> israel / usa
[11:44:34] <IchGuckLive> nice
[11:44:43] <IchGuckLive> so stepper or Servo
[11:44:45] <pzpz> yes.
[11:44:49] <pzpz> SERVO!!
[11:45:07] <IchGuckLive> ok in the USA go for the /i77 from mesa
[11:45:14] <IchGuckLive> 7i77
[11:45:16] <pzpz> I'm planing to use a Grizzly G0704 as the basis of a CNC machine
[11:45:26] <pzpz> what is the 7i77?
[11:45:57] <IchGuckLive> its a I/O interface for servos
[11:46:20] <archivist> pzpz, yes a number have ATCs controlled by linuxcnc
[11:46:22] <pzpz> cool
[11:46:30] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: are you building the CNC yourself or reconfiguring a ready made
[11:48:17] <IchGuckLive> for a grizzlie or a router like that servos are mutch to expensiv there are nice a tens of the price steppers
[11:48:43] <IchGuckLive> also a RF50 is less then 25% of the crizzlie
[11:48:48] <IchGuckLive> G
[11:49:21] <pzpz> i want to make 5 axis machine with a motored caeucale ATC 24 tools and motored cover , and 2 kind of probes one of tham is a motored arm digitaizer
[11:49:23] <IchGuckLive> if you can get a Turning shop access in your range it will be very cheep
[11:50:05] <IchGuckLive> Oh on that level i woudent go eighter with a grizzlie Why not reconfiguring a ready made Haas VF2
[11:50:15] <pzpz> the RF50 is not small than the G0704?
[11:50:31] <IchGuckLive> there are lots of them out there with bad controls as they went of in head times
[11:50:59] <IchGuckLive> the RF50 and that kind odf are all the same price
[11:51:03] <pzpz> i want to make it in 5K$ ~
[11:51:10] <pzpz> not 25-50K$
[11:51:40] <IchGuckLive> if you can go for a KNUTH thats a russion one this have the best reliable mashine layouts for hard work
[11:51:53] <pzpz> my biggest problem is what controler to chose?
[11:52:25] <syyl--> knuth is just more expensive chinese crap
[11:52:29] <IchGuckLive> http://www.knuth.de/sprache,8.html
[11:52:32] <pzpz> and if all the service motors is like anather "axis"
[11:52:42] <IchGuckLive> syyl there are made in russia
[11:52:52] <syyl--> an i am from the moon
[11:53:18] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: the 5i25 / 7i77 is ready to start for you
[11:54:22] <pzpz> what is the price for it?
[11:54:33] <pzpz> i cant finde it.. :(
[11:55:09] <IchGuckLive> http://www.mesanet.com/
[11:55:22] <IchGuckLive> Anithing Io FPGA cards
[11:56:16] <pzpz> no price :(
[11:56:31] <IchGuckLive> the kit is 239
[11:56:43] <pzpz> what about the G320X?
[11:56:43] <IchGuckLive> there is a price list
[11:57:00] <IchGuckLive> this is a driver
[11:57:22] <IchGuckLive> this is a Step Dir aplication
[11:57:28] <IchGuckLive> not a realy Servo
[11:57:58] <IchGuckLive> is pcw_home on ?
[11:58:59] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: on mashines that size its a Waste of money to go for servos
[11:59:19] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go foe 3-8Nm Steppers at 75 V
[11:59:36] <pzpz> but i want servos..
[11:59:45] <pzpz> this.. 7I65 8 Axis analog servo interface - 16 bit DACs - 13 bit ADCs 279
[12:00:02] <IchGuckLive> today i did a test with the 5i25/7i76 and got to 15m/min
[12:00:23] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: the 7i77 is a 6Axis
[12:01:09] <IchGuckLive> that woudt fit your needs and on the second 5i25 input you can get lots of more Gpio
[12:01:18] <pzpz> i need 5 + 3 for the ATC motor, ATC cover, digitaizer arm
[12:01:55] <archivist> often the atc is done a different way
[12:02:25] <pzpz> archivist: how it done?
[12:02:33] <IchGuckLive> i guess you shoudt act the ATC on its own
[12:02:57] <IchGuckLive> get him the tool number and the change signal and wait fot tool changed
[12:02:58] <archivist> pzpz, mostly I see classicladder used
[12:03:15] <IchGuckLive> <- agrres with archi
[12:03:38] <pzpz> what is classicladder ?
[12:03:48] <IchGuckLive> a kind of SPS
[12:04:33] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples pzpz
[12:04:50] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#ATC_tool_changer_program
[12:05:03] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/ladder/classic_ladder.html
[12:06:22] <pzpz> i want to make something like that
[12:06:57] <pzpz> http://www.tormach.com/uploads/images/Gallery/products/pcnc1100/PCNC1100_Options_ATC/32279_ATC_lrg.jpg
[12:07:15] <pzpz> but motor based. not air
[12:07:24] <kwallace> If you know C or Python, one can use a HAL comp instead of Ladder. You can use whatever you know.
[12:07:26] <archivist> and if you wand solid machine tool, retrofit some industrial machine not a grizzly
[12:07:36] <IchGuckLive> air is cheep and wil work quit fast
[12:08:45] <archivist> pzpz, what are you intending to make on the machine
[12:08:55] <pzpz> i cant fit industrial machin at my home..
[12:09:40] <archivist> sure you can, chuck the car out the garage :)
[12:09:57] <pzpz> it's third floor, wood floor
[12:10:01] <archivist> small industrial methinks
[12:10:25] <pzpz> industrial machin = hole in the floor
[12:10:51] <archivist> I have my home brew 5 axis in a bedroom
[12:11:19] <IchGuckLive> i got the same hre its only 1x1m
[12:11:59] <archivist> had to carry it up the stairs in bits due to weight
[12:12:57] <pzpz> you know about industrial one that give me about 45X20 cm? and i can move it myself - and under 5000$
[12:13:38] <kwallace> Converting an older CNC machine with a bad controller is more cost effective than converting a new or used manual machine, if you can provide the space, move the machine and need to make larger parts. http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/
[12:15:20] <IchGuckLive> kwallace: the evaluation pin bvoard is nice
[12:15:26] <pzpz> it is too big..
[12:16:25] <pzpz> i want to make the 4 and 5 axis as a portable table
[12:17:13] <IchGuckLive> thats the most comen one XYZ CA
[12:17:35] <IchGuckLive> with CA mounted eighter on X or Y
[12:17:48] <kwallace> Too big, but cost lass than $2k plus less than $1k to convert. I moved it myself.
[12:17:57] <IchGuckLive> Hermal setup and also DMG
[12:18:05] <IchGuckLive> hermle
[12:18:22] <pzpz> http://conversioncnckit.com/img/p/14-51-large.jpg
[12:18:47] <IchGuckLive> oh thats crap
[12:18:54] <IchGuckLive> this will kill a 1mm bit
[12:19:17] <pzpz> why??
[12:20:08] <IchGuckLive> its a chees setup
[12:21:27] <pzpz> but i want to build it right.. with harmonic drive servos
[12:21:53] <IchGuckLive> up to you
[12:22:21] <pzpz> with harmonic drive servos it will kill 1mm bit
[12:22:23] <pzpz> ?
[12:26:51] <pzpz> i can "save" 2 motor contros, if the EMC2 can suplly "1" logic to open the atc cover and "0" logic to close it..
[12:27:09] <pzpz> the same with the digitaizer arm
[12:28:49] <IchGuckLive> did you look around in the mashine shops thee are bunch of redy made ones for less then 2kgran
[12:29:07] <IchGuckLive> BF30 Super ATC
[12:29:40] <pzpz> i dont know about mashine shops in the us
[12:30:25] <IchGuckLive> then you are right here
[12:32:26] <pzpz> one sec my frinde will connect here also
[12:32:43] <IchGuckLive> friends are also welco me
[12:32:57] <IchGuckLive> by the way im in germany
[12:33:37] <IchGuckLive> at the bad weather outside today i managed to get all 3 Plasma electronics mounted
[12:35:10] <kengu> mounting outside?
[12:35:46] <IchGuckLive> as i got Wlan access yes cause needs to open window O.O
[12:36:02] <kengu> ah
[12:36:14] <IchGuckLive> getting winter here
[12:36:22] <kengu> i just installed a fresh copy linuxcnc and 6i25 (and 7i76 waiting) to end up in the plasma cutter
[12:36:43] <IchGuckLive> nice
[12:36:50] <IchGuckLive> what driver setup
[12:37:19] <IchGuckLive> i go only for leadshine as the local dealer here got them and is able to get a broken one bacck
[12:38:10] <kengu> https://www.google.com/search?q=dq3722m#q=dq3722m
[12:39:18] <IchGuckLive> what volts is the driver cabable
[12:39:34] <kengu> i have no idea
[12:39:38] <kengu> (:
[12:40:14] <kengu> my responsibility ends in the middle of 7i76
[12:40:38] <kengu> http://www.bsjd.com/en/productshowinfo.asp?id=850
[12:40:51] <IchGuckLive> that is the best
[12:41:01] <IchGuckLive> only programmig no cables
[12:42:03] <kengu> well.. i have to help with the electronics, sort of, to figure out what should be connected where on the mesa
[12:42:35] <kengu> and ofcourse then i need to know the stepper settings etc and those are further along the path
[12:44:28] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go with a full hybrid setup then not a a divided one the driver only outputs not getting reterns
[12:49:33] <kengu> well. i don't know too much about this subject
[13:07:40] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[14:06:18] <TH9000> Hi
[14:10:12] <pzpz> hi TH9000
[14:10:34] <pzpz> ?
[14:14:01] <Loetmichel> hrmpf... i shouldnt have mentoined to my wife that i find Chocolate with chili "interesting"... now i have here 5 150gr sheets of "lindt dark Chocolate, Pomegranate & Chili" ;-)
[14:16:25] <pzpz> Loetmichel: leave the Chili for the pizza,,,
[14:18:52] <pzpz> hi again The_Ball
[14:19:22] <pzpz> hi again TH9000
[14:21:43] <pzpz> someone here now?
[14:22:23] <Tom_itx> pzpz if you got something to ask, ask it
[14:23:03] <pzpz> we want to know about ATC
[14:23:34] <Tom_itx> they prefetch and change tools in cnc machines
[14:23:39] <Tom_itx> what more do you want to know?
[14:23:43] <TH9000> I'm planning a 3 axes machine, whith a tool carousel/tool changer and a cover (to prevent chips and coolant from getting into the tools).
[14:24:12] <TH9000> What kind of breakout box do I need?
[14:25:08] <pzpz> Tom_itx: ^
[14:27:19] <pzpz> hi dhoovie|2
[14:28:20] <TH9000> How is the ATC being controlled? Does it have it's own breakout box? (Or other special controller) , or do I use a 5 axes breakoutbox and somehow can configure the extra axes for the ATC and cover?
[14:29:33] <pzpz> someone here? Tom_itx ?
[14:31:14] <pzpz> kengu, IchGuckLive, ?
[14:31:17] <TH9000> Tom_itx - How is the ATC being controlled? Does it have it's own breakout box? (Or other special controller) , or do I use a 5 axes breakoutbox and somehow can configure the extra axes for the ATC and cover?
[14:31:56] <Tom_itx> it's not my atc, i have no idea
[14:32:07] <TH9000> I'm asking in general...
[14:32:31] <ReadError> pzpz, how you gonna put an ATC on a grizzly ?
[14:35:14] <kengu> vt
[14:37:39] <TH9000> I need one output for a power drawbar (ON|OFF), and one output for the tool carousel motor, one output for a tool cover motor. - ReadError kengu
[14:38:33] <pzpz> ReadError: kengu ^
[14:39:53] <ReadError> i guess another question is
[14:39:58] <ReadError> if you are wanting to spend all this time/money
[14:40:00] <TH9000> What kind
[14:40:04] <ReadError> why would you get a grizzly ?
[14:40:06] <TH9000> of a controller?
[14:40:19] <TH9000> or a breakout board..
[14:40:31] <ReadError> is TH9000 and pzpz the same person?
[14:40:41] <pzpz> no
[14:41:06] <TH9000> We are friends. we have this big debate about connecting tool changers.
[14:41:21] <ReadError> how will you mate the new collets to the grizzly ?
[14:41:54] <pzpz> we will use TTS
[14:42:19] <TH9000> I'm talking about the step of choosing the correct breakout board....
[14:42:42] <TH9000> It the machine is a 3 axes... and I need to expand capailities...
[14:43:27] <TH9000> Do I need to get a 5 / 6 / 7 axes breakout board, or I can start with a 3 axes board, and add a secondary controller of some sort?
[14:44:15] <ReadError> get a MESA card
[14:44:21] <Tom_itx> ^^
[14:44:26] <TH9000> What's a MESA card?
[14:44:29] <Tom_itx> bingo someone finally said the magic words
[14:45:34] <TH9000> What kind? model?
[14:46:24] <kwallace1> http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html
[14:51:03] <TH9000> kwallace1: there are lots of them.... how do I choose?
[14:51:12] <ReadError> "get one that suits your needs"
[14:52:35] <ReadError> do your homework, you are the one that knows what they need/want
[14:53:51] <TH9000> For example, if I have a 3 x G320X (per X/Y/Z) , one G320X for the tool carusel, and one G320X for the tool cover, each needs a step and direction, so I need a board of 3 axes, or a 5 axes
[14:53:55] <TH9000> ?
[14:54:52] <kwallace1> You might try to make a list of the inputs and outputs you plan to use. Stepper drivers tend to only need digital I/O at 0 and 5Volts. Servo drivers will need some digital I/O and maybe analog at 0 to 5V, or more likely +/- 10V. The ATC will most likely need only need digital I/O and could be run with a parallel port card if you are short on I/O.
[14:57:00] <TH9000> kwallace1: Thank you, I'll try to work out a list, I'll be back in few minutes..
[14:57:02] <kwallace1> For servos, I would go with a servo amplifier instead of a step/dir servo driver. This leaves the control bits inside LinuxCNC so you can setup and trouble shoot the servo control with HAL.
[14:58:29] <kwallace1> Mesa and Pico systems have amplifiers. My Pico's are used here:http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00013-1a.jpg
[15:00:17] <TH9000> kwallace1: Is this Servo amplifier more expensive than a G320X?
[15:00:24] <kwallace1> The Pico amplifiers use digital out with a fast PWM signal to effectively supply an analog signal.
[15:00:41] <TH9000> *expansive
[15:00:45] <kwallace1> The Pico I think is going for $120 each
[15:01:19] <kwallace1> http://pico-systems.com/pwmservo.html
[15:01:33] <TH9000> kwallace1: haha, you read my mind...
[15:01:54] <TH9000> (I was about to ask you where too look)
[15:02:02] <kwallace1> http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=26
[15:03:09] <TH9000> Do you have some sort of a block diagram of how your system is connected?
[15:03:19] <TH9000> kwallace1: ^
[15:03:25] <kwallace1> Oops, I forgot, this amp drives DC brushed motors. There are brushless amps available too.
[15:03:43] <TH9000> What type?
[15:06:17] <kwallace1> My servos are motors with brushes The more modern way to go is with brushless AC or DC permanent magnet motors.
[15:08:00] <TH9000> kwallace1: In your picture, what is Turret input?
[15:11:14] <kwallace1> The turret uses digital I/O, such as turret up, turret rotate, turret park. There is an encoder that sets a binary tool number. The signals are at 12 volts so I made my own break-out.
[15:14:35] <kwallace1> I also use Pico's controller and used their documents to set up the connections. The Mesa would use a similar setup. http://pico-systems.com/univpwm.html http://pico-systems.com/images/pwmuse.pdf
[15:15:50] <TH9000> So basically each axis or turret or cover etc needs one channel in the Mesa card?
[15:18:03] <kwallace1> An axis on my lathe needs a PWM, a DIR, an ENABLE, plus a FAULT in the E-Stop loop.
[15:19:37] <TH9000> So why does the G320X has only Step/DIR ?
[15:22:06] <kwallace1> The G320X receives a position, then has built-in intelligence to do what it needs to get to that position. The amp just converts a command from LinuxCNC to an analog output.
[15:22:29] <TH9000> So PWM+DIR+Enable+E-stop loop Fault = single channel?
[15:22:49] <kwallace1> The G320X looks just like a stepper to LinuxCNC.
[15:23:53] <kwallace1> "So PWM+DIR+Enable+E-stop loop Fault = single channel?" , pretty much.
[15:25:22] <kwallace1> The Mesa controller has firmware files for different configurations, so the needed signals are provided.
[15:26:18] <kwallace1> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/drivers_hostmot2.html#r1_2
[15:27:24] <TH9000> So what will be a better way to connect a servo motor to the breakout board?
[15:31:03] <TH9000> kwallace1: How does it get "tied into" in the software?
[15:35:49] <kwallace1> The LinuxCNC .ini file for your configuration calls out any other .hal files. Typically the main .hal file will start with loading drivers and firmware. A hostmot2 matching what you need will be called, then HAL with make pins for the bits in the hostmot2 configuration. You get to write commands in the .hal file to connect these pins to existing LinuxCNC pins.
[15:39:56] <kwallace1> Oops "HAL will make pins"
[15:41:18] <TH9000> What does it mean "HAL will make pins"?
[15:49:59] <TH9000> kwallace1: BTW, nice bi-quad antenna...
[15:51:47] <kwallace1> When the firmware gets loaded to the Mesa card, the card sets itself up with encoder inputs, PWM outputs, counters, gpio, and what ever. Once that is done, HAL creates pin names for the new features. I think they follow "hm2_board_type.feature_name.function". So to get an axis encoder signal into LinuxCNC, you would connect the LinuxCNC encoder input which is a counter to an hm2 encoder counter.
[15:54:01] <kwallace1> Sorta like "net encoder_name hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.count axis.0.motor-pos-fb"
[15:57:05] <kwallace1> "net" creates a new connection, "encoder_name" gives it a signal name, then connects (in software) the pins called out.
[15:58:51] <kwallace1> I made the bi-quads back when directional WiFi antennas were expensive -- not much point now.
[16:01:31] <kwallace1> If you are looking at my .hal files, note that they use the old hal commands which probably won't work anymore.
[16:02:10] <TH9000> Doe the Mesa card acts as a fency bunch of LPT/Parallel ports, or does it actually processes the g-code in real-time?
[16:03:06] <TH9000> Do you build other antennas? (2m/70cm etc...)
[16:03:26] <MacGalempsy> afternoon everyone
[16:04:01] <pzpz> hi MacGalempsy
[16:04:12] <MacGalempsy> when would one want to use a HALTLC file rather than just a plain HAL file?
[16:04:44] <MacGalempsy> hi pzpz
[16:05:03] <pzpz> i'm new here
[16:05:24] <MacGalempsy> me too, relatively. came in this channel about 2 months ago
[16:06:02] <MacGalempsy> now im neck deep trying to get my machine up and going
[16:06:03] <pzpz> do you have a cnc?
[16:06:24] <MacGalempsy> non operational at the moment, but the last 4 weeks have had much progress
[16:06:57] <MacGalempsy> just got the ini file written yesterday, so on to the next chapter of the integrators manual, hence the question
[16:07:31] <kwallace1> A parallel port card just converts a 0 or 1 into a 0 or 5 volt signal. A Mesa or other FPGA card can do this but also can have intelligence such as counters, frequency or PWM generators which are in firmware/hardware which makes them really fast. A parallel port is pretty slow since it's counters and signal generators are in software only.
[16:08:23] <MacGalempsy> plius the mesa is capable of linking together a ton of cards, so it can power thousands of i/o if needede
[16:08:53] <kwallace1> I've only made WiFi antennas so far, but need to make an FM antenna for a LAN radio.
[16:10:25] <TH9000> Does the Mesa card get flashed every time you send a g-code, or is it a one time process that happnes when you write or change the .ini file?
[16:10:48] <TH9000> What band/frequency is that LAN radio for?
[16:11:35] <MacGalempsy> kwallace1: the ini file is written for linuxcnc
[16:11:38] <MacGalempsy> oops
[16:11:44] <MacGalempsy> TH9000: ^
[16:12:19] <mpictor> TH9000: flashed, as in re-configured? only at boot, or even less frequently with something that has a configuration flash onboard
[16:12:19] <MacGalempsy> the mesa card has its own firmware, which the ini file matches up the pins to the signals
[16:12:43] <mpictor> s/boot/linuxcnc startup
[16:13:01] <MacGalempsy> < back to reading
[16:15:30] <kwallace1> Now that I'm thinking more about it, I think there is a flash utility that configures the FPGA, then the loadrt hm2 in the .ini file sets up the needed bits from the FPGA config, but I could be wrong.
[16:16:18] <mpictor> kwallace1: it depends, IIRC. those with a flash chip have a stand-alone flash utility
[16:16:47] <mpictor> pretty sure those without flash are configured with a bit file specified on the 'loadrt hm2' line
[16:17:54] <TH9000> What is IIRC?
[16:18:52] <kwallace1> IIRC = If I recall correctly
[16:19:00] <kwallace1> Maybe.
[16:19:08] <pcw_home> Yes for cards like the 5I25 that cannot bootstrap an empty FPGA, the firmware is stored in a Flash EEPROM
[16:19:09] <pcw_home> and loaded at power-on. Cards with a bridge chip that can be bootstrapped have their bitfile loaded at
[16:19:11] <pcw_home> linuxcnc startup (the bitfile name is specified in the config string)
[16:20:17] <TH9000> So bootstrapped cards, basically use RAM where the other cards use EEPROM?
[16:21:15] <pcw_home> well all FPGAs use RAM but it can be loaded in different ways
[16:21:39] <kwallace1> By the way pcw is _the_ guy to talk to about Mesa stuff.
[16:21:41] <TH9000> So the EEPROM gets copied into RAM?
[16:21:52] <pcw_home> I should say most FPGAs use RAM...
[16:22:14] <pcw_home> Yes the flash EEPROM data gets coppied into the FPGAs RAM at power up
[16:22:35] <TH9000> Got it, thanks, pcw_home .
[16:23:17] <TH9000> kwallace1: What band/frequency is that LAN radio for?
[16:23:53] <_DJ_> gn8
[16:25:35] <kwallace1> I got one of these to stream my favorite NPR station through the LAN: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251182036480
[16:26:34] <kwallace1> Also one of these for aviation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251240985308
[16:28:09] <pzpz> kwallace1: look like a cool device
[16:28:22] <kwallace1> I might use a Beagle Bone in the attic as the server.
[16:29:50] <pzpz> we have rpi
[16:30:54] <kwallace1> The FM radio works okay, but the DVB driver hosed up the FM software. The DVB seems to need a 3.X kernel and I tried to hack the driver to work with 2.6.
[16:30:56] <TH9000> If you know the location of the NPR station, go with a directional antenna, if you don't, or it is not that far away, build a simple di-pole antenna...
[16:31:51] <pzpz> you can use DVB stick with VLC
[16:32:38] <pzpz> i'm use VLC to watch DVB-T
[16:33:02] <kwallace1> Which Linux version?
[16:34:04] <TH9000> For example, if that station is on 100MHz, the wave length is: 300/100MHz = 3 meter, each side of the di-pole is a quarter wave-length, the total dipole size is half wavelength...
[16:34:14] <pzpz> ubuntu / debian / windows
[16:34:42] <pzpz> and it's work from ubuntu 8.04 time..
[16:35:04] <pzpz> and you can use VLC as encoder
[16:35:15] <kwallace1> This is what I'm trying to do to get the local aviation frequency: http://superkuh.com/rtlsdr.html
[16:37:05] <TH9000> kwallace1: Nice!
[16:37:37] <kwallace1> I haven't found an RTL2832 that works with Ubuntu 10.04. I would most likely use a modern kernel for the server, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
[16:38:35] <TH9000> kwallace1: Don't you have a cheap old Radioshack scanner for the aviation band?
[16:39:25] <andypugh> I wonder which way my A-axis should rotate?
[16:39:47] <kwallace1> Actually I'm listening to an RS Patrolman CB-60 right now.
[16:40:14] <Tom_itx> andypugh, clockwise would be the norm
[16:40:24] <kwallace1> It has AM, FM, CB, VHF and UHF.
[16:40:28] <andypugh> Looking along +X ?
[16:40:37] <Tom_itx> i believe so yes
[16:41:09] <andypugh> But then, which way is +X when it is static tool, moving table?
[16:41:34] <andypugh> The A-axis points to the right.
[16:42:06] <kwallace1> Is it right or left hand rule?
[16:42:08] <TH9000> You can try streaming your Realistic Patrolman CB-60 scanner via LAN...
[16:42:15] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_hand_rule
[16:42:42] <andypugh> I thought I understood it, but then my scale engraving came out mirrored :-)
[16:43:54] <kwallace1> So with thumb pointing right (+X), the fingers point counter clock wise.
[16:44:10] <Tom_itx> +x is with the table to your left
[16:44:21] <Tom_itx> tool on the right end of the table
[16:44:36] <Tom_itx> on a VMC
[16:45:18] <pzpz> which brand of motors are recomrnded?
[16:45:19] <andypugh> I think I see the problem, the Axis preview looks right, but that's a different geometry.
[16:47:04] <Tom_itx> so with A mounted in the X plane facing +X +A would rotate clockwise with the top of the rotary moving toward the rear of the mill
[16:47:11] <andypugh> pzpz: Fanuc make nice ones
[16:47:29] <kwallace1> TH9000: I looked at the CB-60 and it has a phone jack, so I guess I could just jump it to a sound in on a PC and be done.
[16:48:13] <TH9000> Yes, into the line in, not the microphone in...
[16:48:23] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Ah, yes, tool moves clockwise round work....
[16:48:30] <kwallace1> Tom_itx: but that would be left-hand rule?
[16:48:44] <Tom_itx> i don't think so unless i'm the confused one
[16:49:00] <Tom_itx> that's how our fadal was set up anyway
[16:49:35] <pzpz> andypugh: thay sell in the usa?
[16:49:54] <andypugh> pzpz: Can you be more specific? I suspect that you are not buying at the Fanuc end of the market.
[16:50:14] <TH9000> kwallace1: better to get a cheap USB sound card (few $s) to try it, and not danger your built in sound card...
[16:50:16] <pzpz> i need 9 motors
[16:50:39] <andypugh> There are lots of different types of motors.
[16:50:47] <pzpz> all servo
[16:51:00] <pzpz> 3 for the XYZ
[16:51:22] <pzpz> 2 for the AB
[16:51:46] <andypugh> What sort of power/torque?
[16:52:18] <pzpz> for the G0704
[16:52:31] <andypugh> Are you buying for a one-off, or do you need to have a guaranteed supply of the same parts in the future?
[16:53:25] <andypugh> Direct-coupled or with a belt reduction?
[16:53:41] <pzpz> Direct-coupled
[16:54:08] <andypugh> This is a hobby-machine for your own use, I assume?
[16:54:09] <pzpz> i prefer a new motors..
[16:54:26] <pzpz> yes.
[16:55:13] <pzpz> but u want to works with stainless steel
[16:55:24] <andypugh> I was going to point to a guy on eBay with lots of second-hand motors. ( http://stores.ebay.co.uk/FA-PARTS/SERVO-DRIVE-AMP-MOTOR-/_i.html?_fsub=456141017&_sid=542968597&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322 )
[16:57:17] <andypugh> How do you intend to control them? Are you thinking ±10V or step/dir ?
[16:57:40] <kwallace1> Brushed or Brushless?
[16:58:34] <pzpz> i wish to work with Brushless or AC
[16:59:01] <pzpz> but i think the controler is very expensive
[17:00:00] <TH9000> BRB...
[17:00:19] <pzpz> OK TH9000
[17:00:51] <pzpz> andypugh: what kind a machine you have?
[17:01:15] <andypugh> A small knee-mill that I converted to AC servos.
[17:01:50] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/X0celdfZmkA
[17:01:52] <Tecan> (X0celdfZmkA) "Harrison Demo" by "andy pugh" is "Tech" - Length: 0:02:04
[17:02:31] <kwallace1> I played with Wantai motors a few years back, they may be an eBay source, but an amp may be a problem.
[17:03:32] <kwallace1> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Wantai/
[17:05:02] <andypugh> Someone on the mailing list said they were happy with these Teco ones. http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/teco-servo-drives-and-motors.html
[17:05:23] <mpictor> andypugh: on that mill, you spin the ballnut for Y?
[17:05:48] <andypugh> And http://www.dmm-tech.com are quite well priced too.
[17:06:09] <andypugh> mpictor: Not on Y. I spin the nut on X and Z though.
[17:06:30] <mpictor> yea I meant X :)
[17:07:15] <kwallace1> My price target is $100 per motor, per driver, per axis.
[17:07:45] <andypugh> mpictor: This is how it looks: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oLM693wLua_FB8juhNe26tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:08:02] <andypugh> kwallace1: For motor and driver?
[17:08:25] <kwallace1> $600 total for 3 axes.
[17:08:34] <andypugh> I paid £50 for those three 750W servos. But then another £100 for the connectors.
[17:09:01] <andypugh> kwallace1: What sort of power?
[17:09:20] <pzpz> how you find it sooo chipe?
[17:09:20] <mpictor> andypugh: I thought you'd need more space for the bearings
[17:10:10] <andypugh> It was a _real_ squeeze. It took me weeks to come up with a design.
[17:10:22] <pzpz> cheap*
[17:11:17] <kwallace1> Bought an eBay lot of five video cameras for $25, by mistake, and spent around $100 for the fancy connectors -- go figure.
[17:11:24] <pzpz> brashed servo are cheap?
[17:12:02] <andypugh> kwallace1: This kit is close to your budget, but 100W per axis might not suit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/281106968554?
[17:13:03] <andypugh> pzpz: I got lucky. Also as they were AC servos with Resolvers, the paralel-port guys were scared away.
[17:13:17] <kwallace1> Target motor power for Bridgeport class machine: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/
[17:14:40] <pzpz> but the servo motors in video cameras is very small...
[17:15:17] <pzpz> this AC servo from ebay will work with the mesa breakborad?
[17:15:22] <andypugh> kwallace1: The 8i20 is $191 if you buy 5 of them. Then you need to find some motors as cheaply as i did.
[17:15:41] <kwallace1> I know it might be unreasonable, but I tend to spend huge chunks of time getting deals on eBay and more chunks of time hacking what I end up with.
[17:16:16] <andypugh> pzpz: You would need to check the part numbers and if they take ±10V control.
[17:16:44] <andypugh> And you might need to be more specific about which Mesa cards you have.
[17:16:53] <kwallace1> pzpz: My video reference is an example of spending $100 to justify a $25 purchase.
[17:18:30] <pzpz> i'm dont sure what mesa card i need
[17:22:28] <kwallace1> pzpz: You might try using a cheap dual parallel port card ($15) to get your project started. Once you master getting the axes to move you will have a good idea what Mesa hardware to get.
[17:23:16] <pzpz> someone know what is the price for M7 datron?
[17:30:45] <TH9000-away> Where do you find the $15 dual parallel port cards?
[17:32:00] <kwallace1> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007
[17:34:50] <CaptHindsight> aren't those the ones with the broken EPP?
[17:38:32] <kwallace1> Yeah, you can't use these with parallel port FPGA cards, but they are good for low speed I/O.
[17:40:03] <CaptHindsight> Rosewill RC-304 uses the MOSCHIP MCS9815CV which might not be broken, the Rosewill RC-304 uses the Moschip MCS9805 which is broken
[17:40:39] <andypugh> I have ocncluded that my A-axis does rotate the wrong way. So I will have to reverse it tomorrow.
[17:40:48] <CaptHindsight> I can't seem to find the page on the wiki that details which part numbers are the broken ones and which ones work
[17:41:10] <Tom_itx> andypugh, for my own sanity.. was what i suggested correct?
[17:42:06] <andypugh> Yes, I think so. You have to look at the rotation of the tool around the workpiece, that it where I was inverting things.
[17:42:20] <kwallace1> Check Startech, SIIG and Netmos here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
[17:42:24] <Tom_itx> it can get confusing if you think about it too much
[17:42:54] <andypugh> I have a 08 degree marking. But I will just hope nobody ever notices :-)
[17:45:34] <pcw_home> as far as I know all MOSChip/NetMOS 98 series chips have broken EPP mode
[17:46:07] <pcw_home> I have not tested the 99 series (PCIE) chips
[17:47:01] <andypugh> It's probably worth repeating that it doesn't matter unless you are using a 7i43 or a Pico PPMC
[17:48:01] <pcw_home> Yes they are fine with LinuxCNC except for FPGA card interface applications
[17:48:38] <CaptHindsight> is there a list of PCI/PCIe to EPP cards that do work with the FPGA cards?
[17:51:08] <kwallace1> I've only tested the Startech and SIIG cards on the WiKi pages. That was a few years ago so, they may not be available.
[17:52:14] <CaptHindsight> newegg carries all those brands but the specs don't always list the chip used
[17:53:32] <CaptHindsight> looks like Moschip cornered the market on providing the lowest cost EPP controller
[17:53:53] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately they are also the ones with the broken EPP hardware
[18:00:51] <pcw_home> At the time when it mattered for external hardware (printers and scanners )
[18:00:52] <pcw_home> ECP was probably more important so they never bothered fixing it (their ECP mode is fine)
[18:02:17] <pcw_home> I'm just too lazy to implement ECP in the FPGA
[18:02:18] <pcw_home> (PICO systems and the Pluto also use EPP so I'm not alone in my lazyness)
[18:09:17] <kwallace1> With the availability of low cost PCI or PCIe FPGA cards, there isn't much need for EPP. Except for the charge pump on a popular three axis stepper driver.:)
[18:11:16] <CaptHindsight> the cheapskates would beg to differ :)
[18:21:20] <TH9000> kwallace1: pcw_home This is what we would like to implement: http://pastebin.com/yNL1cW0q - which Mesa card will fit?
[18:32:00] <pcw_home> TH9000: probably 7I77 for analog servos (5 axis plus spindle)
[18:34:55] <andypugh> My CNC has been annoying me all day. It seems to run reliably, as long as i don't do anything with the PC. But, for example, opening a URL will cause the PC to restart. Or opening a file. But it _only_ seems to happen if I do something with the OS.
[18:35:10] <andypugh> I suspect that my 12V supply might be weak.
[18:35:50] <pcw_home> atom MB with 12V power?
[18:35:51] <Tom_itx> you drawing the 12v from the pc?
[18:36:00] <Tom_itx> picopsu?
[18:36:29] <andypugh> PicPSU
[18:37:03] <andypugh> 2kW 24V PSU, then a 12V DC-DC converter
[18:37:07] <Tom_itx> they make several, maybe you need a bigger one
[18:37:33] <andypugh> It's an 80W PicoPSU, but the 12V converter is only really 2A.
[18:38:10] <pcw_home> That might be bit marginal
[18:38:26] <andypugh> I have a bigger one on the way
[18:38:40] <Tom_itx> do you have more than one?
[18:38:49] <Tom_itx> maybe you can share the load in the interum
[18:39:24] <pcw_home> It would be nice if they would take 19V in so you could us a laptop PS
[18:39:55] <Tom_itx> they might
[18:40:42] <kwallace1> What would be cool is a PC power supply that used 220 VAC for input.
[18:42:05] <Tom_itx> so far my smps has run all my logic
[18:49:22] <TH9000> pcw_home: Thanks, I've downloaded the manual, BRB...
[18:53:48] <kwallace1> For a new install, I would tend to use PWM servos/ amps over +/- 10 analog. Am I wrong?
[18:55:17] <andypugh> I don't think it matters much, so would choose on other criteria.
[18:56:33] <kwallace1> But PWM amps are cheaper, unless the machine already has +/-10 amps.
[18:57:24] <kwallace1> There is an external feedback loop with +/-10.
[18:58:01] <mpictor> seb_kuzminsky, pcw_home: the contents of 7i80.zip and hostmot2-firmware.git differ
[18:59:13] <mpictor> err, to be clear, 7i80.zip appears to contain more recent versions of many of the files that are in hostmot2-firmware.git
[19:02:01] <micges> mpictor: that's true, hostmot2-firmware.git is out of date
[19:02:38] <mpictor> ok, I wasn't sure if anyone was aware
[19:03:05] <mpictor> I expected the 7i80 files to be out of date or missing, but quite a few others are as well
[19:08:16] <micges> quite many is missing, there is about 400 configs atm
[19:14:25] <mpictor> micges: is there any documentation on modifying a hostmot2 PIN_*.vhd file?
[19:14:45] <mpictor> I want to add 1 SPI to a configuration that lacks it
[19:15:07] <micges> afaik none mesa specific
[19:15:10] <Tom_itx> i wrote a tutorial but it's old
[19:15:22] <mpictor> ok. I *think* I know what to do
[19:15:37] <mpictor> Tom_itx: do you have a link?
[19:15:52] <Tom_itx> it uses ver 9 software
[19:16:12] <mpictor> ver 9?
[19:16:23] <Tom_itx> xilinx webpack
[19:16:25] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx_install_index.php
[19:16:35] <mpictor> oic
[19:16:38] <Tom_itx> last one i did was with 14 iirc
[19:16:47] <Tom_itx> and peter helped walk me thru it
[19:16:48] <micges> mpictor: pastebin it later, I'll take a look
[19:16:53] <mpictor> wow, v9 _is_ old
[19:17:02] <Tom_itx> good for old hardware :D
[19:17:26] <mpictor> micges: ok, I'll post a link. probably to github :)
[19:17:39] <micges> ok
[19:22:28] <andypugh> Goodnight chaps.
[19:26:26] <Tom_itx> i should have documented what i did on 14 i suppose
[19:27:41] <mpictor> Tom_itx: looked at your link finally. I got it to build bit files, but that's not what I meant
[19:28:18] <mpictor> I've poked around in vhdl a bit in the past, and these files are different than what I'm familiar with.
[19:28:56] <Tom_itx> you need to add a function to the bitfile ?
[19:29:05] <Tom_itx> i did that on the one with 14 for sserial
[19:29:29] <mpictor> yea, I want to add spi
[19:30:00] <Tom_itx> i could see if i can remember but peter could get you thru it alot easier
[19:30:13] <mpictor> that's fine, I'm not in a hurry
[19:46:59] <RyanS> What on earth is an air feed on a drill press http://www.newmac.com.au/Used%202085%20Richardson%20pedestal%20drill%20bb.jpg
[20:32:02] <MacGalempsy> looks like it is used to automate the z axis
[20:32:33] <MacGalempsy> with the handle on the left
[20:33:55] <pzpz> RyanS: what is this drill press??
[20:35:13] <pzpz> i haet air tools.. too mach noise for me..
[20:52:12] <pzpz> hi again
[21:01:10] <FreezingCold> Doubt I'll ever have the time, but would you guys be interested in a rewrite/fork of pycam in C (with qt)?
[21:04:13] <kwallace> pzpz: You asked about a drill press?
[21:05:49] <pzpz> yes
[21:06:02] <pzpz> kwallace: ^
[21:07:24] <kwallace> I think the one linked above is set up to auto feed the quill -- matbe with a foot pedal. It would be good for second ops.
[21:07:35] <kwallace> maybe
[21:09:00] <pzpz> but drill press based on air need
[21:09:24] <pzpz> extreamly big compresor,,
[21:09:25] <kwallace> The air is just to feed Z.
[21:10:54] <pzpz> the conical shape make me think that is air based..
[21:10:59] <kwallace> Yeah that can be a pain. My lathe uses air for the turret, auto lube, collet closer and a couple of other things.
[21:12:28] <kwallace> The ends of each air circuit has a tiny bleed so that the oil atomizer can get oil out to each item. There is a constant hiss and the compressor goes off constantly.
[21:13:49] <pzpz> i want to make everything electric.
[21:14:05] <kwallace> The conical shape covers a multi-pulley speed changer from the electric motor.
[21:14:18] <pzpz> quiet..
[21:14:49] <kwallace> You loosen the motor mount to change the belt from pulley to pulley.
[21:15:40] <kwallace> http://www.kanabco.com/vms/glossary/p/pulley.html
[21:16:19] <pzpz> at the G0704 is gear
[21:17:35] <kwallace> I have a plan to make a small quiet compressor that will run all the time to keep the big compressor from coming on unless there is a big demand.
[21:20:05] <kwallace> The drill press quill could be done electrically, or better with a AVR to set feed, a display and such.
[21:21:28] <kwallace> I'd also like a VFD on my drill press.
[21:21:49] <pzpz> BRB
[21:21:51] <pzpz> 00
[21:28:04] <kwallace> Drill Presses Gone Wild: http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCDrillPress.htm
[21:29:22] <pzpz> 9SIA1JX0PC9913
[21:29:28] <pzpz> opss
[21:40:39] <Tom_itx> mpictor, i found the logs from my bitfile build with pcw if you care to read them over
[21:41:21] <Tom_itx> i should clean them up and post it somewhere
[21:41:37] <Tom_itx> maybe another day
[22:55:03] <zultron> FreezingCold, I'm interested in a refactor/fork of pycam in python, C/C++ TPGs, qt GUI, and VTK 3D.
[22:56:01] <FreezingCold> zultron: What's VTK for?
[22:56:08] <zultron> 3D rendering.
[22:56:29] <zultron> Check out awallin's site: http://www.anderswallin.net/tag/cam/
[22:56:43] <FreezingCold> But why not OpenGL?
[22:57:06] <zultron> Too low level.
[22:57:23] <FreezingCold> I haven't worked with it much, but OpenCL might be a possible candidate for some of the number crunching (regardless of VTK vs OpenGL)
[22:57:36] <zultron> But pycam uses OpenGL right now, so if you want to stick to that, it would be a no-brainer. :)
[22:58:36] <FreezingCold> zultron: It doesn't use any GPU processing (aside from the final rendering), right?
[22:59:00] <zultron> VTK has a bunch of nice features for interaction. For example, it would be pretty easy to select one or more faces on your model to restrict your surfacing operation to. ;)
[22:59:28] <FreezingCold> interesting
[23:00:16] <zultron> I don't know that much about it. I was looking at it almost a year ago when I was thinking about getting serious with PyCAM, but it never happened, other than that settings persistence patch.
[23:00:58] <FreezingCold> What I'd like the development model to be is a backend written in pure C (which extends possible uses OpenCL if I see a preference benefit) that is meant to be command line driver, and then a qt GUI laid over top that can be maintained separately
[23:02:04] <zultron> Why the backend in pure C?
[23:02:27] <FreezingCold> Just because I like writing in C :p
[23:02:48] <zultron> Not C++, either, but C?
[23:03:48] <FreezingCold> meh, maybe C++? :p my writing style just tends to go more to C
[23:04:30] <zultron> I like hacking LinuxCNC RTAPI in C. I like writing GUIs in python. Application backends, I'm more flexible about, but C seems like a lot of work for something as complex and something needing to be as flexible as a CAM application.
[23:05:29] <FreezingCold> On a similar note, why do you prefer python over qt or gtk?
[23:08:25] <zultron> ??? I don't get it. Python is a programming language, but qt and gtk are GUI libs.
[23:08:59] <zultron> FreeCAD is written in python and C++ and uses qt.
[23:09:12] <zultron> PyCAM is written in python and uses gtk.
[23:09:41] <FreezingCold> I mean you said 'writing in GUIs in python'
[23:10:44] <zultron> Ha, you got me. Rephrase: I like writing GUI layers in python. I doubt I'd prefer qt over gtk.
[23:11:46] <FreezingCold> for a second I thought you were writing something completely in python lol
[23:12:13] <FreezingCold> qt impressed me when BlackBerry switched to it
[23:12:24] <FreezingCold> sadly they failed badly at it because they closed up the source so bad
[23:12:56] <zultron> Here's what I said first:
[23:12:57] <zultron> <zultron> FreezingCold, I'm interested in a refactor/fork of pycam in python, C/C++ TPGs, qt GUI, and VTK 3D.
[23:15:05] <zultron> Anyway, I don't see that VTK makes use of OpenCL anywhere, and have yet to check whether VTK can take better advantage of GPUs than just for rendering.
[23:18:22] <FreezingCold> OpenCL is similar to CUDA. It'd be for the task/tool path generation
[23:18:48] <FreezingCold> but I'd have to actually be assed to look at the source code more to see if it could use lots of parallel instructions or not
[23:19:50] <FreezingCold> regardless of how much or little work is done, I'm pretty sure pycam has to be forked seeing how it hasn't been updated in months as far I can tell
[23:20:36] <FreezingCold> last update was 8 months ago
[23:21:51] <zultron> Yeah, I've looked at OpenCL, neat stuff. I'd start by grabbing existing tpgs and working them in, and let folks like you write better ones later on. ;)
[23:22:43] <zultron> Pycam doesn't necessarily need a fork. Lars seems pretty willing to give up the reins and let someone else step in.
[23:24:17] <FreezingCold> oh?
[23:24:21] <zultron> I didn't even ask for VCS access; he just gave it to me.
[23:24:45] <zultron> Yeah, I talked to him a bit about it a year ago.
[23:30:03] <FreezingCold> man compiling qt creator from source takes forever =/
[23:30:33] <FreezingCold> didn't want to bother, but I need to get a patch that supports keyboard remapping, as for some random reason qt creator doesn't respect my xmodmap
[23:31:54] <zultron> Ah, you type dvorak too.
[23:35:27] <FreezingCold> er sadly not, couldn't get used to it
[23:35:43] <FreezingCold> I just have a slightly broken keyboard and had to remap my arrow keys and my delete key
[23:36:07] <FreezingCold> maybe this summer I'll go to dvorak
[23:36:39] <zultron> Heh
[23:37:32] <FreezingCold> so you use it?
[23:37:33] <zultron> I learned dvorak and C at the same time. Painful, looking up how to write the next statement in K&R, then trying to figure out how to enter it on the keyboard.
[23:38:15] <zultron> About three days before the extreme part of the discomfort was over.
[23:39:19] <FreezingCold> Is it still easy to hop back in a qwerty?
[23:40:03] <zultron> Nope. That's the big pain of switching, you (or I, anyway,) can't go back.
[23:41:15] <zultron> Going afk. TTYL
[23:41:39] <FreezingCold> later