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[03:57:52] <_DJ_> moin
[05:12:06] <MacGalempsy> morning\
[05:12:18] <_DJ_> good morning, MacGalempsy
[05:13:17] <MacGalempsy> DJ- its not so good. I feel like an idiot because the 5i25 wont show up in Pncconf...
[05:36:20] <MacGalempsy> finall got that figured out....its going to be a long day
[06:02:55] <archivist> conundrum who made
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_16_vertical_head/
[06:03:23] <archivist> I am browsing google images at the moment
[06:15:19] <MacGalempsy> super slow download
[06:37:20] <archivist> possible leitz
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae293/Masimec/100_1283.jpg
[06:40:50] <MacGalempsy> that one looks pretty close, same color too
[06:52:09] <archivist> later of it is identified as an add on 90 degree head for the vertical head on a Fexac
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/44954-An-Unusual-Horizontal-Milling-Machine-VERY-LONG-Post/page3
[06:52:16] <archivist> lanter on
[06:53:36] <archivist> now it is obvious why the iso 40 part is shorter than if it went onto a standard horizontal mill
[06:55:37] <MacGalempsy> a few steps closer to get this cnc machine up and running. As soon as the din rail comes in, it will be time to start connecting the boards
[06:57:51] <archivist> found another version of the head
http://www.o-t-d.se/forum/fexac2.jpg
[07:04:04] <archivist> only taken about 5-6 years to identify :)
[13:09:31] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[13:10:04] <IchGuckLive> Germany (europa) has changed Summer/winter time tonight
[13:10:30] <IchGuckLive> and we expect the first major winterstorm to com this night
[13:10:43] <IchGuckLive> All U
[13:10:53] <andypugh> Indeed, it is suddenly dark in the evening.
[13:11:23] <IchGuckLive> all UK Stand for the big storm its getting realy bad
[13:11:46] <IchGuckLive> Forestgoverment calls for 200+ chainsaw liceners
[13:12:00] <archivist> this much panic means minor breeze on the way
[13:12:08] <IchGuckLive> all trains are suspended from midnight till 9am
[13:12:45] <IchGuckLive> and i harvested corn yesterday till midnight 16tractors 3 harvesters
[13:13:03] <IchGuckLive> the hell of action on the powerplant
[13:13:20] <archivist> you can only drive one at a time, somebody else did the rest
[13:13:59] <IchGuckLive> about 30gils cheeding every truckload O.O
[13:14:10] <IchGuckLive> girls ;-)
[13:14:37] <IchGuckLive> lots of childron for a ride
[13:15:28] <andypugh> I wonder if I should plan on cycling to work tomorrow?
[13:15:51] <IchGuckLive> with that mutch backwind it will take short time
[13:16:15] <DrNoboto> i would
[13:16:15] <DrNoboto> i cycle to work and back every day
[13:16:27] <archivist> andypugh, I remember driving down to Essex in 87 after :)
[13:17:11] <andypugh> It was about the same time of year wasn't it? I remember doing the Brighton run and there being trees down all over the place.
[13:18:00] <kwallace> It was a little chilly when I rolled out of bed to sit at my work desk.
[13:18:15] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: are you in the SW sE UK
[13:18:21] <andypugh> SE
[13:18:27] <archivist> andypugh, yes oct ish 87 iirc, by the way I dont remember seeing any backlash control of note in hobbing machines, as its a unidirectional cut,
[13:18:40] <IchGuckLive> maybe we see Kay Burly fighting the storm
[13:19:35] <andypugh> archivist: I should try cutting a sample gear to see what sort of quality I get.
[13:20:03] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: Ratio
[13:20:10] <archivist> andy nice high number 200-360 ish
[13:21:23] <archivist> I did a 180 at work which showed the problems, we had to use a better divider to get a gear out
[13:22:19] <IchGuckLive> 180 is hard its for a ABC i gess
[13:22:38] <archivist> our masters had been made on a 44:1 worm , nowhere near good enough, the old boley mill had a much better 72:1
[13:22:42] <IchGuckLive> i only use 90 for them its common on ebay for 60EUR
[13:23:30] <IchGuckLive> worm is cheep in europ
http://maedler.de/product/1643/1619/705/standard-schnecken-und-schneckenraeder-eingaengig-rechts
[13:24:12] <archivist> cheap does not mean good enough
[13:24:25] <andypugh> We had a lucky escape with the Fire Engine. There were reports from the students that the trembler-coil timing kept slippping. (That's the secondary ignition system for starting). We eventually found that the skew-gear that drives it had sheared its pin, and also dropped almost out of mesh. Both ends of the pin were still in place, and the gear was tight on the shaft when cold. That shaft also drives the oil pump...
[13:24:46] <IchGuckLive> archivist precise ones
[13:25:38] <archivist> nasty, I had the weights jam the distributor in my hilman minx, new camshaft, distributor gear ....
[13:25:57] <IchGuckLive> we use greece for the worm as it fits all the spaces as it gets hot
[13:26:52] <archivist> IchGuckLive, that company does not have accuracy specifications on the page, hardly precise
[13:27:16] <IchGuckLive> i order Memory DDr nonECC from UK n thusday and it arrived suturday nice
[13:27:55] <_DJ_> what is "thusday" und what is "suturday"? ;)
[13:29:18] <IchGuckLive> Thursday Saturday O.O
[13:29:27] <_DJ_> ah!
[13:29:42] <IchGuckLive> i have nio english correction on ubuntu it is blockt for some reason on OOO
[13:30:13] <_DJ_> apt-get install brain ;)
[13:30:26] <IchGuckLive> archivist
http://maedler.de/product/1643/1619/705/praezisions-schneckenradsaetze-rechtsgaengig THIs are the Best qualities
[13:32:27] <archivist> IchGuckLive, been to those pages, I repeat no accuracy information I can see, only efficiency, they are drive parts, not for dividing
[13:33:55] <archivist> they quote the shaft distances to an accuracy yes, not the angular accuracy
[13:34:34] <IchGuckLive> archivist: are you lookilg on backlash ?
[13:34:48] <archivist> no
[13:35:07] <IchGuckLive> page 280 gives some data
[13:36:10] <IchGuckLive> http://smarthost.maedler.de/datenblaetter/praezischnecken_EN.pdf
[13:38:05] <tjb1> hello IchGuckLive, get your plasma cutter figured out?
[13:38:42] <IchGuckLive> tthere are now 3running and 3 on build
[13:39:23] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: works perfect hypertherm and low cost s-plasma
[13:39:40] <tjb1> Very nice
[13:40:16] <IchGuckLive> generating more money for the shop , as nomal lona milling
[13:40:49] <tjb1> I haven't used mine in months :(
[13:41:28] <IchGuckLive> go get contructors on your locals to generate money
[13:41:35] <IchGuckLive> sheet after sheet
[13:42:08] <IchGuckLive> US people love special BBQ grills
[13:42:21] <IchGuckLive> special Door signes
[13:42:35] <IchGuckLive> what ever a sheet can bee
[13:43:07] <IchGuckLive> archivist you got the info
[13:43:41] <tjb1> I moved so I only see the table on weekends anymore and I usually have a full plate by the time the weekend comes
[13:43:51] <archivist> IchGuckLive, yes, no angular accuracy stated
[13:44:25] <archivist> where vertex does have a terrible site but does have an accuracy
http://www.vertex-tw.com.tw/products/products_list.php?language=_eng&cid=686
[13:44:33] <IchGuckLive> archivist agree i see only linar too
[13:44:34] <archivist> 45"
[13:45:58] <archivist> if you ever make high count gears you soon realise the quality of the dividing really matters
[14:17:45] <archivist> if I calculated it right the vertex HV4 at 45" accuracy is one part in 28800 of a revolution
[14:21:54] <andypugh> That's the direct-indexing accuracy though. Which is a little bit confusing as I don't see any sign of direct indexing...
[14:23:10] <archivist> the plates are an extra I think
[14:23:54] <andypugh> That reminds me. I have a set of Vertex division plates and no use for them. From the BS0 that I CNC-converted.
[14:24:15] <andypugh> I probably should see if anyone on that eBay wants them.
[14:24:26] <archivist> I have plates from the 6 size shoba rippoff
[14:25:00] <archivist> free listing today but I would have to spend the rest of the week finding them
[14:25:59] <archivist> I have been pleasantly surprised by the HV4 accuracy so far
[14:27:18] <andypugh> I think mine isn't actually a Vertex, it's whatever Axminster use as their source.
[14:28:16] <archivist> the shoba is less good, not made a gear on that as it just carries the vertex
[14:29:00] <andypugh> The BS0 design looks to originate with Ames:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/amesmiller/index.html
[14:29:16] <andypugh> And I suspect that if you could find one of those it would be better.
[14:29:55] <archivist> I spent hours on that site the last two days!
[14:30:16] <andypugh> I have read all the Lathe sections, and have just started on the millers ;-)
[14:30:32] <archivist> and did not find what I was looking for :)
[14:30:42] <andypugh> What were you looking for?
[14:32:27] <archivist> trying to identify this
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_16_vertical_head/ but found it on a fexac (spanish)
[14:34:13] <andypugh> Odd lack of dogs on the input side.
[14:35:33] <archivist> there are two cap head screws I took off while playing
[14:36:43] <andypugh> It looks like a nice piece of equipment.
[14:37:21] <andypugh> Any reason to think that it isn't from the mill it was found on?
[14:37:32] <archivist> you can see one in place here
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/44954-An-Unusual-Horizontal-Milling-Machine-VERY-LONG-Post/page3
[14:38:04] <archivist> I got it loose on fleabay sans mill
[14:39:00] <archivist> similar to a leitz right angle head
[14:39:52] <andypugh> Oh, I see. it isn't actually a vertical head for a horizontal mill then? I guess it would be uselessly short for that application, thinking about it.
[14:40:40] <archivist> one day may fit it to the Adcock and Shipley with an extension tube and adapter etc
[14:41:55] <archivist> I couldnt see why it had the iso 40 input till I saw it on that mill
[14:42:06] <archivist> ah bingo
[14:43:45] <andypugh> The vertical head on my Harrison is 30INT on both sides.
[14:48:31] <andypugh> Ooh! Extremely badly listed thing:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/societe-genevoise-turntable-/281196349288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41789bc768
[14:50:26] <archivist> snap it up, wonder what the reserve is
[14:50:41] <andypugh> I just pointed a friend (in Dudley) at it.
[14:51:10] <andypugh> It's actually much too big for me.
[14:51:21] <Jymmmm> ml, heh
[14:51:40] <andypugh> Yeah, I need a half-pint turntable ;-)
[14:52:18] <Jymmmm> When your flashlight needs it's own suitcase...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOfzh_l7lk4
[14:52:27] <archivist> andypugh, 310303408622
[14:54:55] <archivist> that other item has been in my watch list for a year probably
[14:55:09] <archivist> time he dropped the price
[14:56:25] <Jymmmm> make offer?
[14:58:11] <archivist> I have something similar which I never use, the dti type is more useful
[14:58:22] <Jymmmm> ah
[14:58:30] <Jymmmm> what is it?
[14:58:36] <Jymmmm> inthe aution that is
[15:00:47] <t12> flashlight ricing is a thing
[15:01:05] <archivist> these I find more useful for centering 260965193443
[15:01:49] <t12> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forum.php
[15:02:16] <andypugh> archivist: A webcam in a spindle tool is probably much cheaper and easier to use
[15:03:00] <Tom_itx> archivist those are nice
[15:03:06] <archivist> I do use a dti type, webcam is a pain due to focal problems
[15:04:18] <archivist> this is the one I actually have
http://www.diatest.co.uk/index.php?id=39
[15:05:33] <Tom_itx> that's a bit different
[15:06:39] <archivist> same principle
[15:07:06] <andypugh> Just subtly different mechanically.
[15:07:27] <archivist> I did try webcam
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[15:10:44] <andypugh> I guess depth-of-field is always likely to be a problem.
[15:13:00] <archivist> resolution was too low, and its difficult to know the axis of the optics with cheap stuff like that
[15:13:39] <andypugh> If it is in the spindle, then you just need to wobble the spindle a bit and see which pixel doesn't move.
[15:15:08] <archivist> it has to rotate but one needs the hole outer diameter normally, dti wins as it is designed for the spinning
[16:16:18] <andypugh> Is there a pre-defined sub-gui for Touchy to use it in simulator mode (basically replicating the hardware controls that it expects to see)
[16:19:03] <cradek> no
[16:19:18] <cradek> I've used halcmd setp for that
[16:19:37] <andypugh> OK, just schecking
[16:19:48] <cradek> if someone would make that, users would foolishly use it to control real machinery
[16:20:26] <andypugh> Thus reducing, eventually, the concentration of foolishness in the world.
[16:20:44] <cradek> andypugh: only if they haven't bred yet
[16:20:57] <alex_joni> andypugh: that's unrealistic
[16:21:21] <andypugh> I was hoping to see if the jog-while-paused branch works with the touchy quill-up pin
[16:21:39] <cradek> just poke it with setp
[16:21:54] <cradek> that would be nice if it worked
[16:22:14] <JesusAlos> hi
[16:22:15] <cradek> iirc, it just issues a jog
[16:23:24] <andypugh> Unfortunately, for reasons that I haven't figured out, my VM version started failing to start (the s.axes symptom)
[16:26:58] <JesusAlos> When I change "Base period maximum jitter" value in stepconf wizard, don't change "BASE_PERIOD" value in .ini file
[16:27:55] <alex_joni> JesusAlos: it only changes if the jitter goes over a certain treshold
[16:32:05] <JesusAlos> I try increase in Stepconf value but don't don't change in .ini file automatic
[16:39:01] <JesusAlos> Where can found the formula linuxcnc use to generate the "Scale" value from stepconf?
[16:40:44] <andypugh> JesusAlos: It is the step-pulses-per-unit-distance calculation. My feeling is that Stepconf actually tries to be too helpful.
[16:41:19] <andypugh> I tend to work out the step-per-mm number my own way and use "1" in all the boxes except one.
[16:44:09] <JesusAlos> I have a problem in machine.
[16:44:58] <JesusAlos> think that is because the scale value add error until the machine work by several hours
[16:45:25] <_DJ_> gn8
[16:46:01] <JesusAlos> I usually obtain the scale value mesuring the distance with meter
[16:46:20] <JesusAlos> but think this is not good idea
[16:46:54] <andypugh> You can check the number. But if it is a cumulative error, then I think it is likely to be electrical noise (phantom steps) or lost steps.
[16:47:08] <andypugh> The number ought to make sense.
[16:47:41] <andypugh> But even if the number is comletely wrong, the axis should still return reliably to zero
[16:49:11] <JesusAlos> undestand
[16:49:43] <JesusAlos> but if the problem is scale value, How I must obtain the scale value? calculating way?
[17:03:35] <JesusAlos> gn
[17:03:42] <JesusAlos> thank
[17:37:55] <MacGalempsy> evening
[17:39:04] <andypugh> Hi
[17:40:20] <MacGalempsy> how are things going for you today andy?
[17:41:26] <MacGalempsy> the last thing to figure out on the hard wiring is to connect to the digital drive and see if the settings can be reviewed from the inside
[17:41:53] <MacGalempsy> then this week is power on and connect the boards.
[17:47:27] <andypugh> I have had a fairly ineffective day today, but I did manage to find a potentially nasy problem with our 1916 fire engine yesterday, so not a wasted weekend (The oil pump drive gear was loose on the shaft, but only when hot)
[17:54:58] <MacGalempsy> that is quite an old fire engine. any pics?
[17:56:09] <andypugh> There is a whole web site:
https://union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/rcsmotor/
[17:57:58] <MacGalempsy> what a beauty.
[18:06:17] <andypugh> Indeed. It's about 30 years since I started working on it, and I am not bored of it yet.
[18:29:57] <Valen> shiny brass
[18:30:11] <Valen> we need more brass in the world
[18:30:26] <Valen> where do you get tyres for it?
[18:32:21] <andypugh> Tyres are a problem.
[18:32:53] <andypugh> We don't know where the next set will come from, as the company that made the current set (about 10 years ago) no longer have the capability.
[19:02:56] <MacGalempsy> maybe you can set up a linuxcnc machine to make those tires
[19:03:28] <andypugh> Not altogether unlikely that we may end up doing that
[19:04:49] <MacGalempsy> maybe it would be easier to make duplicate looking rims with a more common tire size
[19:12:44] <andypugh> They are solid.
[19:13:39] <andypugh> It's part of what makes the vehicle interesting, one of the very few vehicles still trundling around on solid rubber tyres.
[19:20:30] <MacGalempsy> making those tired probably violated clean air laws
[19:20:32] <MacGalempsy> heh
[19:21:49] <andypugh> They last decades and never get ounctures.
[19:22:49] <MacGalempsy> ive been going through this digital drive for the last two nights and am having difficulty figuring out the wiring
[19:23:42] <andypugh> Yeah, good luck with that :-)
[19:24:11] <MacGalempsy> loading windows 2k so I can attempt a serial interface with the companies obsolete software
[19:24:32] <andypugh> Try a VM
[19:25:21] <MacGalempsy> virtual machine?
[19:25:30] <MacGalempsy> in linux? not sure how to do that
[19:25:52] <Valen> solid tyres.... fun fun fun ;->
[19:26:33] <Valen> You could perhaps look at making urethane tyres, you can do that at room temp at least
[19:26:34] <andypugh> VirtualBox, I think
[19:26:56] <Valen> We make them for small robots so i'm not sure how well it'd carry over
[19:27:14] <andypugh> Some of the steam guys use urethane. Our problem is that we are actually quite fast and do 1000+ miles per year.
[19:27:48] <Valen> speed shouldn't be an issue, durability would be my only concern, but then we use super duper soft stuff
[19:28:01] <Valen> you want some qualifying tyres for your fire engine? ;->
[19:28:11] <andypugh> Speed is an issue. We tend to over-heat the tyres
[19:28:32] <Valen> would you consider going to a penumatic tyre?
[19:28:36] <Valen> presumably with inner tube
[19:29:07] <andypugh> We had a set that lasted 20 years, then the next set game away from the hoops in 3 years.
[19:29:25] <Tom_itx> guess they don't make things like they used to ehh
[19:29:28] <andypugh> The current set are doing better. it's been about 10 years and they still seem fine.
[19:29:47] <andypugh> There are no rims on the wheels.
[19:29:59] <Valen> how do they attach?
[19:30:01] <andypugh> The tyres are bonded to a steel hoop, and pressed on.
[19:30:15] <Valen> that sounds like awesome fun to change ;->
[19:30:21] <Tom_itx> you can still get them made?
[19:31:13] <andypugh> Here are two more of the same model. One was converted to Pnuematic in the 1930s, and they just don't look right:
http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/img/s3/v26/p121267194-3.jpg
[19:31:15] <Valen> I'd suggest if you did do urethane, make it with multiple grades, go a harder inner then towards a softer outer, it'll reduce the heating
[19:31:48] <Valen> I figured you would go penumatic in the same profile
[19:32:10] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that they simply don't exist
[19:32:25] <Valen> they don't but if you are making stuff why not go nuts ;->
[19:33:16] <andypugh> Scratch-building solid is probably easier than pneumatic. Making beads and plies? That's tricky stuff
[19:33:42] <Valen> I was thinking inner tube to handle most of the tricky stuff
[19:33:52] <andypugh> When the time comes, we will find a way.
[19:34:06] <Valen> plies aren't that hard, doing the side walls could be tricky
[19:35:33] <andypugh> As for fitting, we know an old bloke with a solid-tyre fitting press. Actually, I think that he died, and someone else has it now. But it is a priceless bit of kit (water-hydraulic) and it's pretty certain that it will always find a home (despite being 20 tons and buried in the ground)
[19:36:48] <Valen> lol nice
[19:37:22] <andypugh> I know at least one chap in his 30s who would happily install it in the corner of his yard.
[19:37:37] <Valen> make that 2 ;->
[19:37:45] <Valen> shipping could be a touch expensive lol
[19:38:36] <andypugh> This is him here, rescuing a 1908 truck from under a house (I helped, a little bit)
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?13636-1908-Dennis-Truck
[19:42:19] <andypugh> Interesting that Dennis were claiming to be "The oldest motor maker in England" in 1907. I guess that means that they still are.
[19:46:21] <Tom_itx> what was it doing under a house?
[19:47:23] <andypugh> The chassis had been converted into a NAAFI wagon trailer, them the trailer into a caravan, then the caravan into a holiday home, then the holiday home, rather organically, into quite a big house. :-)
[19:47:57] <Valen> I can't imagine the histronics that would happen if council found out about that here
[19:51:57] <andypugh> It's really rather unconvetional here. Perhaps even more so. The reason that Ben has not got a lot further with his van is that he is converting an old factory into a house, and the building regs hoops he is having to jump through are ludicrous. (Because it is a change-of-use it has to be up to all the very latest regulations.) I am just grateful that the house I built had always been a house (for 500 years) so we were exem
[19:51:58] <andypugh> from nearly all the rules (and ignored the rest :-)
[19:52:52] <Tom_itx> at what point did you update the house with modern utilities? or is it?
[19:53:25] <Tom_itx> that would be a chore in itself
[19:54:05] <Valen> I want to design a house to last 500 years
[19:54:34] <Tom_itx> you'd never know if you succeeded
[19:54:35] <Valen> the name of the game is "expansion", who knows what people will want to run by then, probably going to need a matter pipe
[19:54:56] <Valen> if its still standing when i kick the bucket I'll call it close enough?
[19:55:07] <Valen> I love the idea of making stuff to last, things that'll last a long time
[19:55:43] <andypugh> Valen:
http://www.bodgesoc.org/slaithwaite.html
[19:56:07] <andypugh> (a very old website, from the days when "thumbnail" was literal.
[19:56:54] <Valen> I'm working on some pliers at the moment, replacable carbide/hss inserts for the cutters, user serviceable hinge joint, stainless handles
[19:57:23] <andypugh> What brand?
[19:57:41] <Valen> I'll be making them
[19:57:52] <Valen> I haven't seen anything like that in pliers, they are all disposable
[19:58:04] <andypugh> Though I am rather parial to box-jointed pliers and nippers, partly because I have no idea how they make them.
[19:59:36] <Tom_itx> they must burnish the 'rivet' joint
[19:59:43] <Tom_itx> then grind the outter part
[20:00:04] <Valen> I was going for a pair of angular contact bushings with adjustable preload
[20:00:25] <andypugh> That's the easy part of the puzzle. The hard part is how they assemble them..
[20:03:11] <Valen> andypugh: probably stamp them after putting them through each other
[20:04:07] <andypugh> Well, yes, but, it is still pretty impressive how all the curves still fit after that.
[20:05:26] <andypugh> I have no reason to think that this might not last 500 years:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RXISmcDuivLRVKO9-hnzqdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:05:33] <Tom_itx> http://www.cogsdill.com/products/burnishing/
[20:05:45] <Tom_itx> that was what i was thinking of
[20:05:49] <Tom_itx> the process anyway
[20:07:59] <Valen> hey anybody know much about vapour deposition
[20:08:14] <Valen> I was wondering how much vacuum i need to pull to plate some copper
[20:08:24] <andypugh> I used to.
[20:08:50] <Valen> it looks to be simple enough in the home shop
[20:09:01] <Valen> not trivial of course but not OMG either
[20:09:03] <andypugh> Time was that I would be doing VD every day, when I was an electron microscopist.
[20:09:24] <Valen> heh, might be a little higher end than I need
[20:09:59] <andypugh> At the time it needed both a roughing pump and a diffusion pump.
[20:10:12] <andypugh> But things have moved on a lot in that area.
[20:11:47] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pfeiffer-TPH-055-turbo-turbomolecular-vacuum-pump-UHV-/251358783172?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item3a8626a6c4
[20:12:19] <t12> the one i have at work uses a roughing pump and a tiny turbo
[20:12:25] <t12> for use with carbon
[20:13:05] <andypugh> It makes me feel quite old that when I played with HV the turbomolecular pump hadn't been invented.
[20:13:36] <Valen> My application is plating copper onto glass, I want a decent coating for electrical conductivity
[20:14:06] <andypugh> (Checks Wikipedia). Ah, it had. Clearly the places I worked at just couldn't afford them :-)
[20:14:44] <Valen> Think that'd be needed if i purged with argon first?
[20:16:15] <andypugh> Yes
[20:16:52] <Valen> :-<
[20:17:12] <Valen> I was hoping I could get away with a refregeration pump
[20:17:59] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne4-10kiSaE&noredirect=1 I should speak to this guy
[20:18:05] <andypugh> I guess this is out of your budget?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emitech-K650-Large-Sample-Sputter-Coater-/251321284641?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a83ea7821
[20:18:28] <Valen> heh just a touch ;->
[20:19:07] <Valen> I wonder if thats some kind of turbo pump under the chamber he has there
[20:19:07] <andypugh> He looks to have a diffusion pump there.
[20:37:29] <joebog> gday all quick question I have a HY200 3450 stepper motor with 6 wires colours are as follows black, black/white, red, red/white, orange/white, yellow/white anybody know which are the phases ?
[20:38:47] <joebog> are they a black, inverse a black/white and b red inverse b red/white ?
[20:39:49] <cradek> joebog: impossible to say -- measure resistances
[20:40:00] <joebog> thanks
[20:40:00] <Tom_itx> an ohm meter will tell you
[20:40:14] <andypugh> You can check the ends with a multimeter. I would rather expect black/black white to show a few ohms to each other.
[20:40:47] <andypugh> Alternatively, if you connect any two wires, only the phase-ends will make the motor harder to turn
[20:40:48] <cradek> if you have the motor in hand, and no ohmmeter, you can also do a quick test shorting the windings and feeling the cogging increase
[20:40:52] <cradek> ha
[20:41:00] <cradek> great minds think alike, and so do we
[20:42:13] <andypugh> What also matters on an 8-wire is the phase directions. I had a couple of motors where the data sheet didn't match the actual wires. So my serial connections ended up back-to bal
[20:42:25] <joebog> what I just found is that red/white and yellow/white are shorted toigether and black/white and orange/white are also shorted
[20:42:35] <joebog> sorry for stupid question :D
[20:42:50] <andypugh> ... back to back. Lots of current, no torque. The wire-shorting method is the only way to sort that out.
[20:43:21] <cradek> you should expect a few ohms, not a dead short
[20:43:40] <cradek> you probably have two coils with center taps, and the resistances will help you tell which are the centers
[20:43:50] <cradek> andypugh: he has 6
[20:44:04] <Tom_itx> a couple may be centertaps
[20:44:09] <joebog> have received from china the new controller for indexing headDM860A VERY nicely made !!!
[20:44:11] <andypugh> it's not a stupid question. It's actually pretty involved when you are trying to sort out A1 from B2 etc on an 8-wire, and figure out the directions too.
[20:44:34] <andypugh> Ah, 6 is easier. Must learn to pay attention.
[20:44:52] <joebog> there are 6 wires out of the motor but are shorted as I noted above
[20:45:03] <joebog> I didnt see that at first
[20:45:07] <andypugh> joebog: Were you the guy who orderef the flat-belt from lathes.co.uk?
[20:45:15] <joebog> yes I was
[20:45:22] <joebog> still no answer
[20:45:26] <andypugh> Strange.
[20:45:34] <joebog> two machines
[20:45:40] <andypugh> I have noticed that the online shop has disappeared.
[20:46:07] <joebog> just checked emails again
[20:46:16] <joebog> nothing and its like a month ago
[20:46:28] <joebog> maybe they are translating ASCII to morse ????
[20:46:36] <joebog> :D
[20:46:54] <andypugh> They still seem to offer belts, but it looks like they might have given up on the online shop. Perhaps due to problems with it.
[20:47:52] <andypugh> My belt definitley arrived, and is very good. You can see it at the end of this video:
http://youtu.be/0rwoD2vZUl0
[20:49:09] <joebog> I still need flat belts if anybody can reccomend somewhere
[20:49:16] <joebog> dont care yank or pommie
[20:49:44] <joebog> and milling cutters etc
[20:49:48] <joebog> collet chucks
[20:50:43] <andypugh> I don't know what has gone wrong with the belt order. I suggest you might need to try a telephone call. Though that might be tricky and a bit expensive.
[20:51:39] <joebog> it is :)
[20:52:15] <Tom_itx> collets & tooling:
http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders/c23/index.html
[20:52:17] <Tom_itx> http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/
[20:52:25] <andypugh> For cheap tooling, you are nearer Hong Kong than me. I have been happy enough with stuff from:
http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/StoreFront
[20:52:59] <joebog> the gunsmith doesnt car about price
[20:53:04] <joebog> care
[20:53:08] <Tom_itx> http://www.maritool.com/Collets/c21/index.html
[20:53:33] <andypugh> Whem it comes up cheap on eBay I like German/Swiss/British stuff, of course. :)
[20:53:45] <joebog> agreed andy
[20:53:54] <joebog> and have logged that site Tom
[20:54:26] <Tom_itx> does mcmaster have collets?
[20:54:28] <Tom_itx> not sure
[20:55:18] <joebog> the gunsmith bought a manual a few months ago from lathes.uk so we went there for belts n stuff
[20:55:23] <joebog> not even an answer
[20:56:38] <andypugh> http://www.cromwellpty.com.au is where I go when I am in a hurry (well, the UK version, 15 mins walk from my house)
[20:56:46] <Tom_itx> http://www.hitnmiss.com/25a.html
[20:57:03] <Tom_itx> http://products.beltcorp.com/viewitems/flat-belts-specialty-belts/woven-endless-flat-belting
[20:58:24] <joebog> tks andy thats aussie company too
[21:00:22] <andypugh> Their range in .au might be a bit more limited than the UK version. I am not seeing the "Spindle nose and workholding" that you can see in the UK version. Though, oddly, the UK site is down
[21:01:07] <PetefromTn> Evening folks...
[21:02:13] <joebog> gday Pete
[21:02:37] <PetefromTn> Gray mate, you from down under?
[21:02:58] <PetefromTn> Gday
[21:03:23] <joebog> bloody oath :D
[21:03:49] <someone972_> Well that took a while to pop up.
[21:03:51] <joebog> BRB in 10
[21:04:10] <PetefromTn> Watching the dark night.....kickass movie.
[21:04:42] <someone972_> That's the third one right?
[21:05:16] <PetefromTn> The one with Heath Ledger as Joker. Chilling performance.
[21:05:49] <someone972_> Agreed, he did an incredible job.
[21:06:56] <PetefromTn> The way he spoke, the things he said and that freaking crazy look on his face.....probably the best bad Guy in any movie ever. Period.
[21:08:45] <PetefromTn> Anyone making anything interesting with LinuxCNC today?
[21:09:01] <someone972_> Well I'm trying to get my homemade cnc machine moving
[21:09:10] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Did you see my pulley?
[21:09:18] <PetefromTn> Homemade CNC what?
[21:09:43] <someone972_> It's a standard 3-axis stepper driven machine built mainly out of parts from home depot
[21:09:48] <PetefromTn> Andypugh no I missed it apparently
[21:09:57] <andypugh> I think that was slightly interesting, I doubt that more than a few flat belt pulleys get made in the average week :-)
[21:10:08] <PetefromTn> Cool router then?
[21:10:24] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/0rwoD2vZUl0
[21:10:55] <PetefromTn> Ooh video.....standby while I watch. On my smartphone here LOL.
[21:11:47] <someone972_> So is there anyone on that's familiar with the LinuxCNC source code that could point me in the right direction?
[21:12:43] <andypugh> You shouldn't need source-code level knowledge to get your machine working
[21:12:44] <andypugh> :-)
[21:13:08] <someone972_> The controller isn't exactly standard :p
[21:14:12] <andypugh> What's the question?
[21:14:25] <someone972_> Essentially I want to offload the final step generation to the control board
[21:14:35] <andypugh> OK.
[21:14:50] <andypugh> Your own control board?
[21:15:05] <someone972_> ya
[21:15:11] <PetefromTn> Andypugh damn that is some serious turning man. Jealous dude. My kingdom for a horizontal vertical mill LOL.
[21:16:00] <andypugh> someone972_: You have built the board? I only ask as you can buy a PCI card that does this for $80
[21:17:11] <someone972_> I kind of built it - it's on a breadboard right now. It's more of a learning experience then for practicality's sake.
[21:17:37] <someone972_> Although I have a pcb designed so it can cut out it's own board when the time comes ;P
[21:18:03] <PetefromTn> What's the structure built from?
[21:18:42] <someone972_> Are you asking andy or me?
[21:18:53] <andypugh> But, basically, the axis.N.motor-position-cmd HAL pin updates every 1mS (if that is the servo thread rate) so all your board has to do is to set its pulse rate correctly to make the right number of pulses in the next servo period. Ideally compensating for any pulses it under-shot or over-shot by last time.
[21:18:54] <PetefromTn> You...
[21:19:23] <someone972_> What do you mean by structure?
[21:19:43] <PetefromTn> I mean whayzitmadeof?
[21:20:15] <someone972_> Oh, MDF (wood particle board) and aluminum bars
[21:20:37] <someone972_> It's fairly small, it's mostly designed for simple circuit board milling
[21:21:21] <PetefromTn> Aah cool....
[21:21:47] <andypugh> You probably want to look at the intearaction between the make-pulses and calculate-position functions here:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/components/stepgen.c;h=09bbcf3c90771a7b67201e7d34f50182ff884cc7;hb=HEAD but the closest analogue of what you are trying to do is the (less simple) code here;
[21:21:48] <andypugh> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/stepgen.c;h=0538d8a833be8d9f16a10d401f2934a5f01d5f6f;hb=HEAD
[21:23:00] <PetefromTn> Kinda like a microcarve?
[21:23:03] <someone972_> That looks like a good place to start
[21:24:57] <someone972_> Kind of, except the z axis is fixed in the x/y direction while the x y tables move below it
[21:26:13] <PetefromTn> Interesting, i like the looks of the microcarve machines. Would not mind building one.
[21:26:54] <someone972_> It probably would have been a good idea to come on here and other forums before building it, it's loosely based off of various diy designs I found online, and a lot of seat-of-the-pants engineering
[21:27:07] <someone972_> Is that the right term? Sounds weird
[21:27:20] <PetefromTn> Cool got a pic or three?
[21:27:39] <someone972_> I don't have any with the enclosure or the z axis
[21:27:50] <someone972_> I'm at college right now and only brought up the x/y table
[21:28:01] <someone972_> Might be able to find a camera and get a pic though
[21:28:18] <PetefromTn> Cool no worries if not.
[21:29:31] <PetefromTn> Wanted to run my VMC here today but wound up doing a bunch of decoration for Halloween and mowing the lawn so we can put up our fake graveyard and skulls etc. LOL
[21:40:36] <PetefromTn> Well gotta get ta bed...cya folks.
[21:46:32] <someone972_> So lets say that I want to queue commands on the control chip, where would I be looking for that?
[21:49:55] <andypugh> We don't do queuing
[21:50:22] <andypugh> LinuxCNC is "realtime"
[21:51:37] <andypugh> When an axis position command is sent, then the expectation is that next time the system looks (1mS later, typically) then that is where is will be.
[21:52:22] <andypugh> So, the system sends an updated position request every mS (pretty much exactly) and the job of your board is to make it so.
[21:53:34] <someone972_> Maybe I'm thinking too high-level of the read-ahead queueing
[21:58:40] <someone972_> Maybe the best way to describe what I'm trying to do is that I'm trying to move the realtime aspects to the control chip
[21:59:42] <someone972_> Something along the lines of LinuxCNC does the parsing and line/circle/velocity etc calculations, then sends those to the chip
[22:04:56] <DrNoboto> CaptHindsight:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4155786129.html
[22:05:59] <DrNoboto> kind of expensive
[22:06:02] <DrNoboto> but obo
[22:10:51] <uw> pffff 5k my butt
[22:11:19] <uw> glorified bridgeport
[22:14:48] <DrNoboto> i've heard a lot better things about trees than bridgeports
[22:15:26] <Tom_itx> my friend had a row of trees and they seemed quite rugged
[22:15:38] <Tom_itx> one had an odd control on it
[22:16:18] <Tom_itx> they were VMC though
[22:16:29] <andypugh> someone972_: Yes but, LinuxCNC is realtime too,
[22:16:48] <andypugh> And, in fact, has no way to not be realtime.
[22:17:22] <someone972_> What is considered realtime?
[22:17:25] <t12> http://www.quantum-munich.de/fileadmin/media/media/higgs/Higgs-press_picture_apparatus_01.jpg
[22:17:41] <andypugh> It's only "soft" realtime, but it is realtime enough that queuing would be hard (and pointless) to implement.
[22:17:42] <t12> mission: find a photograph of the most complicated optical table
[22:18:32] <andypugh> someone972_: Well, typically you would expect any thread to execute when requeted ±20uS
[22:23:41] <andypugh> t12: Is that actually real?
[22:23:55] <DrNoboto> a real mission?
[22:25:10] <andypugh> It reminds me of the Horror Film lab with racks of glasware fulll of colourful liquids, that I knew were just props until I walked into a University lab.
[22:26:46] <t12> i think it is
[22:27:06] <t12> http://www.quantum-munich.de/media/higgs-near-absolute-zero/
[22:27:22] <t12> thats the most insane one i've found
[22:27:31] <t12> if its a prop its an exceedly expensive one
[22:27:35] <t12> exceedingly
[22:27:36] <t12> lasjkdh
[22:29:35] <t12> http://www.flickr.com/photos/t12/5741789634/in/set-72157626767866860
[22:29:45] <t12> heres a favorite from the advanced light source
[22:33:02] <DrNoboto> i wish the higgs one was bigger
[22:33:17] <DrNoboto> oh, i found the link
[22:33:18] <DrNoboto> nice
[22:33:31] <t12> maybe i should apply to be a thorlabs artist in residence
[22:33:34] <DrNoboto> haha
[22:33:37] <t12> to make the most insane optical table
[22:33:38] <DrNoboto> free labsnacks
[22:33:45] <t12> loll
[22:33:53] <t12> they need to scale labsnacks in proportion to your order value
[22:34:55] <DrNoboto> i would hate to have to align that
[22:35:14] <DrNoboto> i'd like to see a schematic
[22:35:28] <t12> yeah i was imagning how to align the inside parts
[22:35:39] <t12> you could suspend from the ceiling like some some kind of mission impossible scene
[22:35:46] <DrNoboto> grappling hook
[22:35:47] <DrNoboto> haha
[22:35:47] <DrNoboto> yeah
[22:38:57] <someone972_> Well I'm out for tonight, thanks for getting me started with the source stuff
[22:56:08] <CaptHindsight> heh, I like the pic with the gamepad
[22:57:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.flickr.com/photos/t12/5741239379/in/set-72157626767866860/lightbox/
[23:00:17] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2013-10-kettle.html How the kettle got its whistle
[23:20:38] <jesseg> LOL...?
[23:20:57] <jesseg> I thought kettles were designed to whistle so you know as soon as the water's hot so you can have your tea.
[23:22:08] <jesseg> And I further always assumed that the whistle worked essentially on the same general principle as a fluit or penny whistle or any number of wind instruments
