#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-10-26

[00:59:26] <t12> hum i took apart and rebuilt a mitutoyo dial height gauge
[00:59:30] <t12> not as hard as i expected
[00:59:45] <t12> except i didnt rebuild the movement
[01:57:18] <_DJ_> moin
[01:57:23] <archivist> t12 taking things to bits is a sure sign :)
[01:58:18] <t12> hah
[01:58:30] <t12> it was all grimed up and rough so kinda to the garbage if not fixed
[01:58:35] <t12> how accurate? who knows!
[01:59:17] <archivist> t12 someone told me I would never get married, because the first thing I would do is take her to bits to see how she worked
[02:00:52] <archivist> as long as you get the springs set right the accuracy should be ok
[02:14:13] <t12> seems that on that unit
[02:14:22] <t12> to get the dial off you have to pull the glass and hand
[02:14:26] <t12> which isnt so hard but not so easy also
[02:14:31] <t12> then ?? happens to the movement from the force
[02:14:39] <t12> likely some special tiny hand puller is the correct tool
[02:14:54] <archivist> I have hand pullers :)
[02:15:12] <t12> one day i'll be able to make the hand pullers on demand!
[02:15:21] <t12> after 40 years of tooling up heh
[02:15:27] <archivist> most of the work can be done from the rear in a lot of dti dials
[02:15:35] <t12> thats what i expected
[02:15:48] <Valen> anything i say at this point will be entirely inappropriate
[02:15:52] <t12> but the screws that mount the sorta.. frame to the slide
[02:15:59] <t12> are under the dial
[02:16:07] <t12> hah
[02:16:15] <t12> i'm considering quitting my main job
[02:16:19] <t12> not sure what to think of this move
[02:16:32] <archivist> there are multi finger tools to remove glasses
[02:17:03] <archivist> in the job climate, I would not quit a job
[02:17:08] <t12> this one the bezel just kinda prys off
[02:17:18] <t12> same job 7 years in jan
[02:17:21] <t12> job is going nowhere
[02:17:30] <t12> skills are actually going backwards now i think
[02:17:39] <archivist> get a new job before you quit
[02:17:44] <t12> i'm pulled too many directions at once, so now its been years of only doing a shit job at everything
[02:18:13] <t12> yeah i have another one lined up but its in unreliable startup world
[02:18:21] <archivist> then they go ...oh shit, we better offer a better wage
[02:18:32] <t12> heh
[02:18:38] <t12> last time that was approached the boss said it would be
[02:18:42] <t12> 'unethical' to give me a raise
[02:18:47] <t12> (re: not giving other people ones too)
[02:19:32] <archivist> shares in the business then :)
[02:19:37] <t12> university :(
[02:19:48] <t12> i could rot there till i retire if i wanted
[02:19:56] <t12> which most people seem to think i'm crazy to NOT want to do
[02:20:47] <archivist> I imagine a uni job having more variation than out in industry
[02:20:55] <t12> there is def alot of variety
[02:21:24] <t12> longest job i've ever held, so no idea what quitting something like that will be like
[02:22:16] <t12> want to move careers away from sysad/it type stuff towards more engineering/motion control/prototyping kind of work
[02:23:06] <t12> likely i'm just restless and want to make something new happen
[02:23:16] <Jymmm> IT Sucks
[02:23:29] <archivist> or just move departments
[02:23:35] <t12> i'm in 3!
[02:23:39] <t12> 11 bosses
[02:24:11] <t12> my discovery is that there isnt really much moving, its more like piling more on
[02:24:17] <Jymmm> t12: Tell them to get you Cisco AND Juniper certified
[02:24:39] <t12> oh none of that will ever happen
[02:24:48] <t12> the employment is directly from federal life science research grants
[02:25:39] <Jymmm> Ok, go into research then =)
[02:25:41] <t12> i'm not worried about acquring new work really
[02:25:46] <t12> research is awful
[02:26:15] <t12> life science postdoc == 20 years of training, 30-40k/year earning capability when its over
[02:26:28] <t12> only room for sharks at the top
[02:27:13] <t12> also i have zero degrees
[02:28:01] <t12> but yeah complain/complain
[02:30:27] <archivist> t12 fleabay 250851255622
[02:31:10] <archivist> thats the retail price, I have more than one
[02:32:56] <t12> neet device
[02:34:20] <archivist> there are other devices that need the whole bezel off as they are a press that deforms the plastic enough to shrink the rim
[02:34:58] <t12> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdY-p5g7HS4
[02:35:00] <t12> dang this guys shop
[02:35:34] <archivist> like this 370808822282
[02:35:56] <t12> ya thats like the tool from longislandindicator
[02:39:28] <archivist> problem is bezel fitting method used sometimes
[02:47:19] <archivist> I like the comment under the image http://longislandindicator.com/p30.html
[02:47:44] <t12> hah
[02:47:52] <t12> alot of interesting info there
[02:48:02] <t12> someone bothered to write it all down!
[02:48:23] <t12> 7i76e and 8i20 have arrived
[02:48:30] <t12> time to be responsible and not hurry to use!
[03:04:28] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:26:57] <archivist> two fleabay retrofits 141099696763 141099563938
[05:29:54] <awallin> but they don't fit on my kitchen table..
[05:32:51] <archivist> and another 400592266598
[05:33:47] <archivist> rearrange your shed http://www.collection.archivist.info/Dads_Shed.JPG
[05:42:40] <t12> if only i had concrete floors and a forklift
[06:47:30] <MacGalempsy> general wiring question: if the dc amplifier has direct pwr input, then the mesa board only has to send enable, disable signals?
[07:04:21] <archivist> what is it amplifying
[07:16:16] <MacGalempsy> 48v dc 15A
[07:24:27] <archivist> that I believe is the supply, not what it is amplifying
[07:27:17] <kengu> 15mm thick spruce panel, http://www.botsmark-tra.se/InteriorSprucePanel.jpg is lasercuttable sans knots
[07:28:40] <MacGalempsy> the only power lines in/out from the amplifer are HV (in) Motor (out)
[07:29:34] <archivist> and...
[07:30:10] <archivist> what is HV
[07:30:40] <MacGalempsy> thats it, the reset are voltage ref, tach, enable, enable+/-, fault, reset
[07:30:47] <MacGalempsy> HV is high voltage in
[07:32:14] <archivist> how do you set the speed and direction
[07:33:15] <MacGalempsy> well there is an encoder, too. still trying to figure all this out
[07:35:03] <MacGalempsy> im trying to understand when the amplifier would send out 80V/10A to a 12&24V motors
[07:35:32] <MacGalempsy> when = why
[07:36:27] <archivist> you would only do that on peaks, most of the time it is within normal amounts
[07:36:43] <MacGalempsy> that is the continuous rate
[07:36:48] <archivist> motors are happy with short term overload
[07:37:31] <MacGalempsy> the old board was so complex, that I am trying to make sure nothing gets missed
[07:39:16] <MacGalempsy> there are places on the board to run the 15+/- to the amplifier, maybe I need to add that in?
[07:39:53] <MacGalempsy> i guess with tach and encoder, that could be signal enough?
[07:40:28] <archivist> you have not mentioned yet how the speed and direction are input to the amplifier/drive
[07:41:40] <MacGalempsy> honestly, all I can do is show you the amp tech sheet and tell you what is connected. http://www.copleycontrols.com/Motion/pdf/4122.pdf
[07:43:55] <MacGalempsy> if you can open that up, I can tell you what ports are wired. I kind of think an additional wire will be run from the mesa card to the 15 +/-
[07:44:20] <MacGalempsy> speed and direction through the encoder?
[07:48:45] <The_Ball> Anybody done frequency measurements with mesa cards? The THCAD card claims it the FPGA firmware can count on chip, anyone played with that?
[07:51:03] <awallin> an encoder input should be able to count pulses
[07:51:19] <awallin> you could have the encoder reset on an index pulse, similar to a "gate" on a frequency counter
[07:51:34] <The_Ball> Yeah, much overhead though, or is that also done in firmware?
[07:51:37] <awallin> on a mesa card the encoder counter is on the fpga
[07:52:12] <awallin> probably a few MHz max count rate
[07:52:15] <awallin> you'd want the gating to be quite precsie, also on the fpga. that would probably require new HDL for the fpga
[07:52:26] <The_Ball> Ah, well then the velocity output is exactly what I need.. I don't actually need to reset on an index pulse, I want to measure a temperature using a A-F converter
[07:53:16] <The_Ball> I'm going to have a play with 3d printing, repstrapping my mill, so I need to measure the temperature of the head and the bed
[07:53:18] <awallin> ok... normal xtal clocks are good to maybe 50ppm, but if you are doing temperature measurement you will not need >5 digit precision anyway :)
[07:53:48] <awallin> the thermal time-constants are long, so in principle you can transmit temperature information with a slow signal
[07:55:00] <The_Ball> Yeah I'm contemplating using a uC to do the measurements and send it serially, or use IO's on the mesa. Using two encoders wastes a lot of pins
[07:55:22] <The_Ball> Could even do bitbanged i2c to the uC over a couple of general mesa IO pins
[07:55:47] <awallin> depends on what mesa model you have, some have 96 i/os which should be enough.
[07:55:59] <MacGalempsy> thats cool. i am going to millstrap my reprap with a pneumatic rotory pencil
[07:56:03] <awallin> I did extruder temperature control and measurement over the parallel port - you've maybe seen that in my blog
[07:56:32] <MacGalempsy> teacup firmware and an arduino is all it takes
[07:56:32] <The_Ball> awallin, I might, what's the url?
[07:57:25] <awallin> try http://www.anderswallin.net/?s=temperature+control
[07:57:49] <awallin> first three links there anyway
[07:59:12] <The_Ball> hadn't seen that, I'll give it a read thanks
[07:59:32] <archivist> MacGalempsy, the ref inputs
[08:01:53] <MacGalempsy> I thought the ref was to monitor the voltage
[08:02:12] <MacGalempsy> perfect then, appreciated you clearing that up for me
[08:03:22] <archivist> if you read the velocity section you will see
[08:05:07] <MacGalempsy> between putting together the wiring diagram and trying to go through all the manuals, it can get overwhelming.
[08:05:32] <MacGalempsy> so I also appreciate the patience
[08:08:19] <The_Ball> awallin, I like the sim_extruder.comp :)
[08:10:17] <awallin> had to test things in sim-mode at some point...
[08:47:51] <dosas> does anyone know if the linuxcnc version 2.5.3 can be installed on top of the xenomia kernel
[08:51:18] <awallin> 2.5.3 might be 'officially' supported only on 10.04 with rtai
[08:51:52] <dosas> okay so i need to do the isntallation like described on your page
[08:53:10] <awallin> my notes are from 2012/12, so quite old. there was a new "ubc3" page somewhere..
[08:53:50] <awallin> here http://static.mah.priv.at/public/html/common/UnifiedBuild.html
[08:54:32] <dosas> do you know what the plans for linuxcnc are
[08:54:32] <dosas> wil is stick with ubuntu which rt kernel will be used?
[08:54:32] <awallin> that might be the best instructions available now if you need something newer than 2.5.3
[08:54:42] <awallin> there is work that makes it build on: rtai, xenomai, preempt-rt, and plain vanilla kernel
[08:54:42] <dosas> ty
[08:55:02] <CaptHindsight> you can run RTAI on newer kernels
[08:55:07] <awallin> it will most probably make its way into 2.6, with some unknown schedule
[08:55:14] <CaptHindsight> have you seen the .debs?
[08:55:34] <dosas> which ones
[08:55:34] <CaptHindsight> one sec
[08:57:10] <CaptHindsight> http://highlab.com/~seb/linuxcnc/rtai-for-3.4-prerelease/
[08:57:54] <awallin> did anyone compare rtai vs xenomai on the same hardware? latency numbers etc
[09:01:27] <CaptHindsight> dosas: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=31248707 here are the instructions
[09:02:26] <dosas> okay i will try both thanks
[09:03:28] <CaptHindsight> awallin: RTAI 5-10uS, PREEMPT-RT ~30uS not sure where the xenomai for x86 is hiding but should fall somewhere in between
[09:04:07] <CaptHindsight> tested on a few mainboards
[09:07:39] <awallin> ok, do you have those results, histograms, etc online somewhere? interesting data
[09:08:20] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NewRTInstall not sure if this is the current howto on xenomai for x86 and Linuxcnc
[09:08:34] <awallin> mah's page might be more uptodate
[09:09:06] <CaptHindsight> awallin: not online, we tested a few boards here while we were working on updating RTAI to newer kernels
[09:31:22] <PetefromTn> Mornin' folks..
[09:32:47] <jthornton> Morning
[09:33:14] <PetefromTn> hows things JT?
[09:33:34] <jthornton> not bad a bit cold out so we canceled the motorcycle ride for today
[09:33:52] <jthornton> playing with QCad CAM atm
[09:35:48] <PetefromTn> I used to ride a bunch years ago...had about a dozen different sportybikes...
[09:35:48] <PetefromTn> any luck with it?
[09:35:48] <jthornton> actually if you mean QCad CAM yes I'm getting it to work for profiles
[09:35:48] <PetefromTn> 2d of course?
[09:36:05] <jthornton> yes
[09:36:26] <jthornton> many things I do are simple profiles and I hope to make it work with my plasma
[09:38:02] <PetefromTn> mmmmMM Plasma...
[09:45:35] <jthornton> what do you mean by V-carving? How does Sheetcam handle rigid tapping?
[09:45:43] <Tom_itx> jthornton what were you using before trying QCad?
[09:45:52] <jthornton> I have a software to generate rigid tapping G code
[09:46:08] <jthornton> I use OneCNC and Sheetcam
[09:46:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you forgot: Tom_Outdoor_Emporium_food_court_and_petting_zoo
[09:46:28] <jthornton> but for simple, fast is better
[09:46:37] <Jymmm> That's NOT what she said.
[09:46:44] <PetefromTn> SHeetcam now has a v-carve feature which allows a CNC router to vary Z height to allow a v shaped cutter to make caligraphic text
[09:46:46] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: read the reviews "SOS mode only does SOO"
[09:46:57] <jthornton> ah, very cool
[09:47:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Who cares, look at the crown on it
[09:47:14] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, it's still not echoing back to my client. reading the logs to follow along :)
[09:47:24] <PetefromTn> The tapping cycles are in there too which allow for rigid and semi rigid tapping functions.
[09:47:35] <jthornton> PetefromTn, does Sheetcam generate proper rigid tapping G code for LinuxCNC?
[09:47:46] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Doubt that could be legal
[09:47:58] <Tom_itx> let's try yet another server
[09:48:14] <PetefromTn> Dunno have not tried it yet because my VMC is still waiting for me to install the damn spindle encoder LOL But yeah it did work for the RF45 pretty good.
[09:48:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: they should call it a reamer or something toolish
[09:48:53] <CaptHindsight> or pocket hole maker
[09:48:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: assault crown isn't ugly sounding enough? lol
[09:49:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: just new definition for it is all =)
[09:49:33] <CaptHindsight> flesh gouger
[09:50:19] <Jymmm> Zombie killer!!!
[09:50:20] <PetefromTn> One nice feature of Sheetcam I enjoy is that whenever I go back to a drawing that is already in sheetcam in my cad software as soon as I go back to sheetcam it says there is an updated drawing and asks me if I want to use it. Then I click yes and it automatically updates everything with my machining operations.
[09:51:02] <PetefromTn> Not exactly an integrated solution but works really well so far.
[09:51:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Zombies can't read SOS from SOO anyway =)
[09:51:16] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: are zombies considered more alive than dead?
[09:51:37] <PetefromTn> Just watched World War Z last night. That was definitely a nail biter...
[09:51:40] <CaptHindsight> yet more dead than alive
[09:52:32] <Jymmm> If a virus/bacteria is alive, then sure
[09:52:52] <Jymmm> animated dead
[09:53:06] <CaptHindsight> not sure what their official designation is
[09:53:15] <Jymmm> dead man walking?
[09:54:02] <PetefromTn> offiicial designation: Target practice LOL
[09:56:55] <dosas> CaptHindsight: i'm trying to compile linuxcnc for rtai but do you know what path i have to give for--with-realtime
[09:57:43] <CaptHindsight> dosas: if you really want to compile from scratch....
[09:57:59] <dosas> yes
[09:58:06] <dosas> i must
[09:58:14] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/README.INSTALL
[09:58:37] <dosas> no not rtai
[09:58:40] <dosas> linuxcnc
[09:59:03] <dosas> i used the .deb packages you recommended
[09:59:21] <CaptHindsight> sorry, there's a howto on the linuxcnc as well ...
[09:59:35] <dosas> http://static.mah.priv.at/public/html/common/UnifiedBuild.html
[09:59:37] <dosas> this one
[10:01:29] <CaptHindsight> no, we stopped reading those after getting too much misinformation
[10:01:41] <CaptHindsight> there's a howto on the wiki
[10:06:19] <dosas> okay i will search for this
[10:07:36] <CaptHindsight> can't find it now, andypugh pasted it a few days ago here
[10:10:25] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#Installing_to_Ubuntu_10_04_or_8_04_from_source
[10:10:25] <CaptHindsight> maybe this ^^
[10:13:00] <CaptHindsight> awallin: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=5207772B.8070603%40steinkuehler.net&forum_name=emc-developers
[10:27:00] <pcw_home> The_Ball: its possible to make a config with just encoder "A" pins so it only take a single pin to do a frequency counter
[10:27:19] <pfred1> guess what i just picked up at a yard sale
[10:28:11] <pcw_home> a yard?
[10:28:13] <pfred1> if i stick them all together it might be a hard
[10:28:13] <pfred1> yard even
[10:28:13] <pfred1> hard heh
[10:28:21] <pfred1> I got a precision gauge block set
[10:28:24] <dosas> dudes
[10:28:35] <pfred1> but it is missing 2 blocks
[10:28:46] <pfred1> still for $18 I couldn't pass it up
[10:28:57] <archivist> files some steel to size for the other two
[10:29:13] <archivist> actually you can get spares
[10:29:26] <pfred1> archivist these things came from the Army and there are like warnings on it don't break the polyethyelene seal etc. etc
[10:29:36] <pfred1> I mean they're serius instruments
[10:30:17] <archivist> I got an ex army set, exceedingly workshop used grade
[10:30:30] <pfred1> these seem to be in pretty good shape to me
[10:30:36] <pfred1> what is left of the set
[10:31:10] <archivist> now you need a comparator and a temperature controlled room
[10:31:12] <pfred1> I'm always looking for setup blocks that's probably what I'll end up using them for
[10:31:30] <pfred1> for the price i can afford to
[10:31:43] <pfred1> they're real nice chunks of steel
[10:33:17] <archivist> there are some block holders that are worth looking out for
[10:33:35] <archivist> what a rough set looks like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_13_comparator/IMG_1678.JPG
[10:33:53] <pfred1> this set has these rods that I guess go through the blocks in order to extend them
[10:34:29] <PetefromTn> Nice man. I picked up a largish granite surface plate from the Y12 area a few years back. It is real nice and heavy and has certs with it they all cleared the radiation checks and apparently were used in the inspection areas. Nice stuff and it is what I check all my flat surfaces against.
[10:34:36] <pfred1> archivist they'd work mine are like long bars
[10:34:47] <pfred1> I'll pop a shot of it real quick BRB
[10:34:51] <PetefromTn> rods or bars?
[10:36:27] <archivist> but I am a sucker for any thing that measures in a wooden box, if I have the cash available at the time
[10:36:44] <PetefromTn> yeah I know how you feel.
[10:36:52] <Tom_itx> those don't look very certified
[10:37:27] <archivist> might have been 50 years ago
[10:37:35] <Tom_itx> heh probably
[10:38:24] <PetefromTn> I had a neighbor who I was friendly with that moved away awhile back. One day she came over and told me that her father passed away and that she had a whole bunch of tools and instruments he used. She asked me if I was interested in them. I said yeah how much and what does he have? She said Oh no you can have it all for free we just know you are kind of a tool guy and thought he would want you to have them.
[10:38:25] <archivist> the glass ones to the top of the picture are interesting, for testing a 1" micrometers
[10:38:30] <pfred1> this is what i just got http://i.imgur.com/wpXgLtq.jpg
[10:39:31] <pfred1> PetefromTn when I was moving I passed on a basement filled with machinists equipment because i didn't want to move it
[10:39:47] <pfred1> this place was packed though floor to ceiling
[10:39:55] <PetefromTn> I got several boxes of cool stuff including some carving knives and equipment, lots of tiny files with curved and different shaped ends, many many measuring tools, lots of magnification stuff like those old headsets with dual lenses and all kinds of cool stuff. I was in hog heaven.
[10:40:04] <pfred1> but I'd been moving my stuff and i just couldn't move more then
[10:40:10] <PetefromTn> pfred1: Where was I when I needed ya LOL.
[10:40:38] <archivist> never say no, just make more trips
[10:40:43] <pfred1> every time I brought a handful of stuff up to the girl running the sale she said oh give me $3
[10:40:49] <PetefromTn> I even got a couple of dremel tools with lots of bits and a flex shaft as well as some older dremel fixtures that hold the motor for you.
[10:41:06] <pfred1> archivist I'd already made like 50 trips and i was moving over 200 miles away
[10:41:26] <pfred1> some of those trips cost like a grand too if I had to rent a U Haul
[10:41:28] <PetefromTn> I also got a bunch of german high quality layout tools like scribes, compasses, etc.
[10:41:53] <pfred1> I wasn't moving around the corner if you know what I mean
[10:42:06] <pfred1> it was a 4 hour drive
[10:42:09] <PetefromTn> I cannot imagine what it would cost to buy all that stuff many hundreds if not thousands of dollars. I was tripping over myself thanking her for her generosity.
[10:42:28] <pfred1> PetefromTn it happens just like lightning strikes
[10:42:52] <PetefromTn> She just said that knowing her father he would have been pleased that it went to someone who would actually use them for what they were intended instead of just pawning it for drugs or other crap.
[10:42:57] <pfred1> when I die there are going to be a ton OK many tons of tools just lying there
[10:43:10] <pfred1> someone is going to end up with them too
[10:43:16] <PetefromTn> pfred1: yeah I guess, it has only happened to me once tho unfortunately LOL
[10:43:34] <PetefromTn> pfred1: I'll give you my number and address dude LOL
[10:44:01] <pfred1> a lot of old folks do sell their stuff off when they get really old
[10:44:15] <JesusAlos> hi
[10:44:49] <tandoori> moo
[10:45:06] <PetefromTn> Actually it has happened twice to me. When I first got this VMC here I was pretty broke and trying to get it working as I had a couple honest to goodness machining jobs wanting me to make stuff for them. A nice fellow donated me about a dozen different Cat40 toolholders to help get me started.
[10:45:12] <pfred1> I've thought about rigging my house with a deadman so if I croak it all goes sky high
[10:45:13] <PetefromTn> JesusAlos: Hi
[10:46:00] <tandoori> so. i was informed that i dont need to spend nearly as much for a router that is suitable for pcb work. that makes me feel much better
[10:46:06] <PetefromTn> With all the nastiness and violence in the world it is nice to know that there are still truly kindhearted and honest people out there willing to lend a hand and are truly generous.
[10:46:24] <pfred1> PetefromTn I like being on the other end of the deal when people are pawning tools for drugs
[10:46:39] <PetefromTn> why you deal drugs?
[10:46:41] <PetefromTn> LOL
[10:46:42] <pfred1> I've got some OK tools that way for decent prices
[10:46:49] <pfred1> no but i deal in cash
[10:47:02] <PetefromTn> Yeah I got your meaning just bustin chops.
[10:47:08] <JesusAlos> Looking for any economic PC compatible with linuxcnc
[10:47:10] <tandoori> oh, i also want to design new housings for my projects
[10:47:25] <pfred1> I just made a cheesy housing for my new PSU
[10:47:31] <PetefromTn> I used the Atom 525 for my Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC retrofit and it works awesome.
[10:47:31] <pfred1> out of scrap wood
[10:47:43] <tandoori> heh nice
[10:47:54] <pfred1> PetefromTn Atoms rock what kind of latency do you get?
[10:48:03] <JesusAlos> any idea?
[10:48:27] <PetefromTn> Can't remember it was decent but I am using the Mesa cards 5i25/7i77 combo so apparently that is not as much of an issue anyways.
[10:48:32] <pfred1> JesusAlos I use an AMD X2 I got out of a thrift store for $5 it's OK
[10:49:13] <tandoori> pfred1: yes but i mean like custom parts for mechanics too
[10:49:27] <PetefromTn> I need a new computer tower for my design computer and I am looking on cragislist right now for a cheapie. There is a nice HP Pavillion elite with a 1tb drive and 8g ram quad core now for less than $200.00
[10:49:31] <pfred1> JesusAlos http://i.imgur.com/OjNG078.png
[10:50:10] <tandoori> kde looks like
[10:50:11] <PetefromTn> pfred1: what board is that?
[10:50:12] <pfred1> PetefromTn I got 2 Pavillions for next to nothing browsing around I'm on one of them right now
[10:50:18] <JesusAlos> and motherboard?
[10:50:22] <pfred1> PetefromTn an Asus Bianca
[10:50:30] <PetefromTn> okay.
[10:50:38] <PetefromTn> You like the pavillions then?
[10:50:39] <pfred1> it is a 2.5GHz dual core X2
[10:50:52] <pfred1> PetefromTn well they all had little problems which is why I got them so cheap
[10:51:03] <pfred1> one the RAM popped out so I had to reseat it
[10:51:04] <archivist> lurk on your local freecycle too
[10:51:08] <PetefromTn> Here is the one I am considering.... http://knoxville.craigslist.org/ele/4141479397.html
[10:51:22] <pfred1> that was the AMD this one is a core2 and it has a broken VGA jack on the motehrboard
[10:51:36] <pfred1> slapping a video card in fixed it
[10:51:41] <tandoori> how is it broken?
[10:51:41] <pfred1> it needed it too
[10:51:57] <pfred1> but i paid a buck for this box
[10:52:01] <tandoori> you can just buy a cheapo video card sor 20 usd
[10:52:05] <tandoori> oh
[10:52:08] <pfred1> they thought the whole motherboard was fried in it
[10:52:09] <PetefromTn> I am having a problem with my current desktop in my office, it is also an HP, slim form factor older business machine.
[10:52:26] <tandoori> mmm
[10:52:32] <pfred1> yeah so HP does seem to come down with problems
[10:52:35] <PetefromTn> I tried two different monitors and it kinda locks up the video.
[10:52:58] <PetefromTn> this one is kinda old but it worked great until recently.
[10:52:58] <pfred1> but for what i paid for the 2 i have I can't really complain
[10:53:04] <tandoori> but yeah my main goal is to route pcbs, other stuff is secondary
[10:53:11] <PetefromTn> Whaddya think of that one I linked to?
[10:53:15] <pfred1> tandoori Eagle?
[10:53:25] <kwallace> I've had really good latency with HP DC7800 and 7900.
[10:54:09] <PetefromTn> This is a 9220y.. Not intending to ever use it to run a machine just want a nice fast design and internet computer for the office.
[10:54:11] <kwallace> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310732876724
[10:54:13] <pfred1> PetefromTn it's a little steep for a used machine
[10:54:45] <PetefromTn> pfred1: Yeah I kinda thought that too. Was thinking of offering $170.00 or so..
[10:55:02] <PetefromTn> it does have a terr drive and 8GB ram tho..
[10:55:03] <pfred1> PetefromTn I'm looking it up to see what it really is
[10:55:23] <pfred1> PetefromTn http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/hp-pavilion-elite-e9220y/4505-3118_7-33777303.html#!
[10:55:28] <pfred1> doesn't sound promising
[10:55:38] <PetefromTn> why?
[10:55:44] <pfred1> read the link
[10:56:19] <pfred1> it is an AMD X4 AMD does pretty good with RTAI
[10:56:41] <pfred1> ATI gfx ah I've had problems with that
[10:57:01] <PetefromTn> yeah I have actually read similar online but it seems to me that is only when comparing it to other offerings of the time when buying new. used it is not as much of an issue if it has my needs covered adequately...
[10:57:05] <pfred1> this box I tried the ISO live image with ATI it froze up Nvidia it worked
[10:57:22] <pfred1> so I'd have to blame ATI there
[10:57:51] <pfred1> all I did was swap the video card and reboot
[10:58:14] <pfred1> it is fair to say I'm not the world's biggest ATI fan
[10:59:07] <pfred1> so you might be up for changing the video in order to run
[10:59:11] <PetefromTn> just want a nice looking and quick desktop for as cheap as possible right now so I can get back to desig work. I have a nice built in cabinet to draw over the weekend here.
[10:59:24] <pfred1> oh you're not running LinuxCNC on it?
[10:59:29] <pfred1> then it'll be fine
[10:59:30] <PetefromTn> the rest of the stuff on CL right now is crap.
[10:59:41] <pfred1> hit some thrift stores
[10:59:49] <pfred1> that is where I got my X2
[10:59:54] <PetefromTn> nope no LCNC ever just a nice office computer with reasonably fast processor for design.
[10:59:54] <kwallace> Sometimes just changing screen resolution or timing will get a PC to boot up, so it's not so much what video card you have.
[11:00:07] <pfred1> one thing I will say for ATI is dual monitor works out of the box
[11:00:35] <The_Ball> pcw_home, do you need to recompile the mesa firmware to change the config in that manner?
[11:00:53] <PetefromTn> actually the computer boots up fine, if I remove power from the monitor and plug it back in sometimes it will come up but most of the time it just powers back down automatically inside the monitor.
[11:01:16] <PetefromTn> yeah that would be sweet I actually have two nice 24" flatscreens here for that.
[11:01:33] <pfred1> when I blew the dust bunnies out of this system and hooked it back up I had some monitor flakiness I plugged the one jack back in and it straightened out
[11:02:06] <pfred1> so just unplug and plug your monitor back in at the card it might help
[11:02:10] <PetefromTn> what one jack? I tried two different monitors and it was the same story so it must be the computer somehow.
[11:02:18] <pfred1> hmmm
[11:02:34] <pfred1> I know this PC the onboard has broken solder joints on the jack
[11:02:37] <PetefromTn> Tried that and installed a PCI nvidia card and it did the same thing only after awhile.
[11:02:52] <pfred1> could be the socket then
[11:03:05] <pfred1> could be bad caps too
[11:03:07] <PetefromTn> at first I thought I had it fixed with the new video card but after a week or two it started again.
[11:03:19] <kwallace> If the PC sends a signal that the monitor doesn't like, the monitor will usually go to sleep to protect itself. That is why changing the X settings in xorg.conf can help.
[11:03:20] <pfred1> look really closely at the caps by the socket
[11:03:28] <pfred1> see if any of them have a bulge on the top
[11:03:29] <PetefromTn> frustrating because I had the computer setup nice with all my favorite software.
[11:03:43] <pfred1> even a slight push up on an electrolytic is bad
[11:04:07] <pfred1> could be the PSU too how old is it?
[11:04:09] <PetefromTn> yeah that is probably what it is, I blew the dust out of it regularly too and tried to keep it clean all the time.
[11:04:39] <pfred1> any PSu over 5 years old could be going bad
[11:04:39] <PetefromTn> Honestly I bet it IS the PSU, I was told that the video card I installed which was installed before I got it draws a lot of heat.
[11:04:56] <pfred1> electrolytics just don't last that long
[11:05:16] <pfred1> even good ones it depends how they specced it when they built it how close to the edge it is
[11:05:19] <PetefromTn> the PSU is kinda wierd, not your typical screw in box but it pivots on metal tabs and is removable easily.
[11:05:40] <pfred1> but I've seen some shady stuff inside PC PSUs
[11:05:44] <PetefromTn> as is the PCI setup, just has a neat bracket that goes over and holds them down.
[11:05:55] <PetefromTn> latches in place.
[11:06:20] <PetefromTn> Apparently it is a business computer so I guess they tried to make it tool less R and R....
[11:06:37] <pfred1> they really don't build a whole lot of headroom into PSUs as far as overspeccing parts go
[11:07:04] <pfred1> like they throw 16V caps on the 12V rail
[11:07:09] <PetefromTn> yeah the PSU I bought for my VMC I got is a monster just in case LOL.
[11:07:13] <pfred1> it works but just barely
[11:07:23] <PetefromTn> sacriledge...
[11:07:33] <PetefromTn> Bastards....
[11:07:49] <pfred1> a couple years down the road just barely can turn into it doesn't work too
[11:08:24] <PetefromTn> yup.
[11:08:54] <pfred1> what I'm saying is sooner than it should
[11:09:05] <PetefromTn> precisely.
[11:09:33] <pfred1> you can have an old stereo from the 70s and it's PSU will still work
[11:09:51] <pfred1> but they built those with more headroom
[11:10:14] <pfred1> so even though the caps are half gone in them today the half left still does the job
[11:10:49] <PetefromTn> I have a Denon AVR3000 AV amplifier that I use to run my surround sound. I bought it when I was in the Coast Guard at a PX in Guam. It still kicks ass to this day almost 20 years later.
[11:11:13] <pfred1> yup and a 20 year old computer still has a fair chance of working today too
[11:11:21] <pfred1> but the new stuff? it doesn't last
[11:11:37] <PetefromTn> its built not to of course.
[11:11:51] <pfred1> yes they engineer them razer thin now
[11:12:21] <pfred1> if the ysave 20 cents on a cap but they're making 100,000 units it adds up
[11:12:33] <pfred1> so they toss you the cheaper cap
[11:12:38] <PetefromTn> whaddya think is a fair offer for that HP?
[11:12:48] <Crack123> Hello!
[11:12:52] <PetefromTn> I kinda like it..
[11:12:52] <pfred1> hi
[11:12:58] <PetefromTn> Crack123: Hello crack.
[11:13:05] <pfred1> yeah they are stylish it looks a lot like the 2 I have
[11:13:17] <PetefromTn> I like stylish LOL
[11:13:28] <pfred1> mine are almost identical twins
[11:13:36] <PetefromTn> how old are they?
[11:13:37] <pfred1> they were made 2 years apart
[11:13:44] <pfred1> one is a 2007 the other is a 2009
[11:13:58] <pfred1> I'm on the 2009 now
[11:14:04] <PetefromTn> He said it is a couple years old so I am hoping 09/10
[11:14:16] <PetefromTn> so what say ye?
[11:14:17] <pfred1> remember i paid $1 and $5 for mine
[11:14:23] <PetefromTn> bastard...
[11:14:33] <Crack123> does anyone have some time for a short LinuxCNC / Ethercat conversation ?
[11:14:35] <pfred1> well that is what a broke old computer goes for
[11:14:47] <PetefromTn> yeah I know....worthless.
[11:14:51] <pfred1> Crack123 ask if anyone can help we will
[11:14:53] <PetefromTn> this one works tho.
[11:15:18] <PetefromTn> I wanna offer $150.00 but who knows..
[11:15:20] <Crack123> well what should i tell u, first time using Linux, totaly screwed in just try to Install Ethercat Master hehe
[11:15:36] <pfred1> PetefromTn go look it over and when they're not looking jiggle the VGA jack on the box real hard and when it stops working then get a better price
[11:15:51] <pfred1> heh
[11:15:52] <PetefromTn> LOL now that's not nice dude...
[11:16:02] <pfred1> neither is asking that much for a used PC
[11:16:16] <PetefromTn> yeah but it is a STYLISH used PC LOL
[11:16:49] <pfred1> Crack123 Ethercat Master?
[11:16:52] <pfred1> what is that?
[11:16:52] <PetefromTn> Maybe if I offer $150.00 he will meet me somewhere in middle.
[11:17:03] <Crack123> allowed to post links?
[11:17:04] <PetefromTn> yeah dunno what ethercat is?
[11:17:11] <pfred1> sure
[11:17:14] <Crack123> http://www.etherlab.org/en/ethercat/index.php
[11:17:31] <Crack123> its like connection Beckhoff Hardware to Linuxcnc
[11:17:36] <pfred1> oh this is tricky
[11:17:39] <pfred1> git repo
[11:18:03] <pfred1> Crack123 I've been running Linux since 1995 so I've seen a few things
[11:18:21] <pfred1> built LinuxCNC from Git too
[11:18:39] <Crack123> well i just saw some ppl who use Ethercat Drives or for example the Beckhoff Modules with it so it should be possible :(
[11:18:55] <pfred1> OK so tell us what you've done so far
[11:19:12] <pfred1> were you able to download the source tree for instance?
[11:19:16] <Crack123> well as Docu say me, installed Unbuntu Linux 10.40 or smth like thos
[11:19:30] <Crack123> i have no clue about Linus :D
[11:19:37] <Crack123> linux
[11:19:37] <pfred1> me either he's a joker
[11:19:55] <Crack123> i following this :
[11:20:04] <Crack123> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EtherCatDriver
[11:20:18] <Crack123> a bit Below the installation
[11:20:39] <pfred1> ah so here they're telling yo uto get a tarball snapshot
[11:20:52] <Crack123> i got this folder with the files on my desktop now
[11:21:02] <Crack123> but this untar thing ?!
[11:21:08] <pfred1> yes but they're telling yo uspecifically where you need to put it
[11:21:24] <pfred1> yeah untarring it won't be a problem
[11:21:32] <pfred1> but lets put the tarball where it belongs first
[11:21:33] <Crack123> u see more then me it seems
[11:22:02] <pfred1> actually that tar command looks wring
[11:22:12] <Crack123> i found 2
[11:22:16] <Crack123> one with # and one with $
[11:22:17] <pfred1> it should be tar xjvf
[11:22:22] <Crack123> yeah this to
[11:22:33] <Crack123> but how can the terminal know where it is ?
[11:22:39] <pfred1> oh OK jusat out of order it is OK
[11:22:52] <pfred1> you have to navigate to the file
[11:22:57] <pfred1> cd Desktop
[11:23:00] <Crack123> its on desktop atm
[11:23:04] <Crack123> ah
[11:23:22] <pfred1> but I'd just unpack it where it belongs
[11:23:35] <pfred1> copying it after you've untarred it works but it is kind of goofy
[11:23:49] <pfred1> you can redirect tar too but again goofy
[11:24:06] <pfred1> just put the tar archive where it belongs and untar it there
[11:24:12] <Crack123> would be happy if untaring would work
[11:24:17] <pfred1> it'll work
[11:24:53] <pfred1> let's figure out what the exact path of the directory you need to pupack it to is on your system
[11:25:06] <pfred1> # cp -av <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2
[11:25:20] <pfred1> we need to replace <source-path-of-LinuxCNC> wit hthe real path
[11:26:09] <pfred1> do this find / -name ethercat
[11:26:19] <pfred1> it is overkill but it'll find it
[11:26:25] <Crack123> still at untaring i put the command in it jumps to next line but i dont see any change
[11:26:48] <pfred1> it should have scrolled a bunch of file names unless you forgot the v
[11:27:40] <Crack123> i did # tar xjvf ethercat-1.5.2.tar.bz2
[11:27:57] <Crack123> but still the folder is unpacked manualy when i click on it
[11:28:30] <pfred1> yes it should be all unpacked now
[11:28:43] <pfred1> but you have to put it inside another source tree in order to build it
[11:28:54] <pfred1> another whole structure of files and folders
[11:29:25] <Crack123> well this src path dont exist atm
[11:29:35] <Crack123> # cp -av <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2
[11:29:37] <pfred1> yes you're going to have to install the LinuxCNC source
[11:29:55] <pfred1> well <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2 won't exist
[11:30:15] <Crack123> i mean after the source path ofc
[11:30:18] <pfred1> but src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/ may on ytour machine somewhere
[11:30:19] <Crack123> src/hal etc
[11:30:29] <Crack123> there is src
[11:30:31] <Crack123> butno hal
[11:30:42] <pfred1> did you run find / -name ethercat
[11:31:55] <Crack123> only on desktop rest is not enough rights
[11:32:15] <pfred1> OK do sudo -i
[11:32:27] <pfred1> and give it your password
[11:32:35] <Crack123> did
[11:32:40] <pfred1> now run the find command
[11:33:01] <pfred1> you have more rights now
[11:33:10] <pfred1> all rights in fact
[11:33:49] <Crack123> it shows me 2 files in the folder what i downloaded before
[11:34:05] <pfred1> OK so you do not have the source for LinuxCNC installed
[11:34:20] <Crack123> whatever it is think not hehe
[11:34:28] <pfred1> try this aptitude search linuxcnc
[11:34:48] <pfred1> we'll see if we can't get the other stuff you need installed
[11:35:13] <pfred1> you are looking for a package with the name source attached to it
[11:35:28] <pfred1> so you could run aptitude search linuxcnc | grep -i src
[11:35:57] <pfred1> I think
[11:36:04] <Crack123> oh man this is tough
[11:36:06] <pfred1> I'm not using a LinuxCNC machine ATM
[11:36:11] <pfred1> it isn't that bad
[11:36:13] <Crack123> me either hehe
[11:36:20] <pfred1> oh you're using ssh?
[11:36:28] <Crack123> well i started on mach3 with some paralellport card but i want to go big higher
[11:36:34] <Crack123> ssh?
[11:36:43] <pfred1> yeah a remote shell to another system
[11:36:59] <Crack123> hmm not sure what u mean exactly?
[11:37:05] <pfred1> you can run Linux over a network connection
[11:37:14] <Crack123> nah it runs on another pc
[11:37:18] <pfred1> like you can have a terminal up on one system logged into another system
[11:37:23] <Crack123> no
[11:37:34] <pfred1> and do stuff in that terminal just like you were at the other system
[11:37:43] <Crack123> its a external pc only for this atm
[11:37:51] <PetefromTn> mach3 parallel port is da debil.
[11:37:52] <pfred1> it really is handy
[11:38:07] <pfred1> yeah LinuxCNC owns Mach3 for performance
[11:38:19] <Crack123> much easier stiill xD
[11:38:36] <pfred1> sure Mach3 is easier it only does one thing
[11:38:51] <Crack123> so
[11:38:58] <Crack123> my problem is now iam missing this source ?
[11:39:01] <pfred1> LinuxCNC does lots of things better
[11:39:10] <pfred1> yes
[11:39:21] <pfred1> you need the main source tree in order to compile this module you have
[11:39:31] <pfred1> you have a leaf yo uneed the whole tree
[11:40:03] <Crack123> its 2 times harder to get this working if u dont speak realy good english to
[11:40:21] <pfred1> yeah I'm American so I only speak English sorry
[11:40:37] <Crack123> not realy sure where i get this source code
[11:40:48] <pfred1> well the package manager should have it
[11:40:50] <Crack123> thought its already in this version
[11:40:55] <Crack123> lemme se
[11:41:03] <pfred1> well you don't automatically get all source code
[11:41:12] <pfred1> but you can get it all
[11:41:33] <pfred1> well even that isn't technically correct with LinuxCNC but hopefully we won't run into that situation
[11:41:58] <pfred1> or have they found the missing kernel source?
[11:42:58] <pfred1> when I went looking for it no one knew where it was
[11:44:02] <pfred1> there are two source trees with LinuxCNC LinuxCNC itself and the kernel source tree
[11:44:06] <Crack123> well packet manager shows me nothing to install so it did all seems only the Linux update
[11:44:09] <Crack123> is open
[11:44:33] <pfred1> there is no linuxcnc src or dev package?
[11:44:35] <kwallace> If LinuxCNC is installed, the source is available form Synaptic in linuxcnc-dev, or you can look in git http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=summary
[11:44:53] <pfred1> kwallace so aptitude should find it too
[11:45:02] <pfred1> oh wait
[11:45:04] <Crack123> whats aptitude?
[11:45:13] <pfred1> Crack123 do this aptitude update
[11:45:23] <Crack123> there is nothing to update
[11:45:29] <Crack123> all updated already
[11:45:38] <pfred1> OK then aptitude search linuxcnc
[11:46:06] <pfred1> heck just do aptitude install linuxcnc-dev
[11:46:28] <pfred1> forget it kwallace told us the package name
[11:47:34] <Crack123> i just understand *zzZZzzZ*
[11:47:35] <Crack123> :(
[11:47:44] <pfred1> Crack123 run aptitude install linuxcnc-dev in your window you did the sudo -i in
[11:47:57] <Crack123> terminal ok
[11:48:15] <pfred1> yes it will have the permissions to execute that command
[11:48:45] <pfred1> Crack123 we're going to give you a crash course in running Linux
[11:49:20] <Crack123> hehe yea
[11:49:26] <Crack123> so its done
[11:49:38] <pfred1> OK now run dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev
[11:49:44] <Crack123> well iam from electric automation that should be possible^^
[11:50:01] <pfred1> that will list every file that install just installed
[11:50:12] <pfred1> but we're only interested in the ethercat ones so
[11:50:27] <pfred1> run dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev | grep ethercat
[11:50:36] <pfred1> this is called filtering output
[11:50:54] <Crack123> yep
[11:51:11] <pfred1> now take that tarball and copy it to there
[11:51:41] <Crack123> shows me not installed
[11:51:47] <Crack123> >ethercat
[11:51:47] <pfred1> what?
[11:51:50] <Crack123> >ethercat
[11:52:18] <pfred1> hmmm maybe you have to put it into drivers?
[11:52:35] <Crack123> i bet
[11:52:36] <Crack123> so
[11:52:57] <Crack123> this page says me to copy it to src/hal etc
[11:53:00] <Crack123> but this path dont exist
[11:53:04] <Crack123> or i cant see it
[11:53:11] <pfred1> well have yo udetermined from the first dpkg command where the source tree is?
[11:53:42] <pfred1> that aptitude command installed something didn't it?
[11:53:46] <Crack123> yes
[11:53:50] <pfred1> good!
[11:54:19] <pfred1> you need to put that tarball in there where it belongs then uppack it
[11:54:50] <Crack123> # cp -av <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2
[11:54:50] <pfred1> so go as deep as you can with src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/
[11:54:54] <Crack123> this should be the path
[11:55:00] <Crack123> i can go src
[11:55:04] <Crack123> then no hal
[11:55:07] <pfred1> yes but this part you have to replace <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>
[11:55:25] <Crack123> yeah ofc
[11:55:26] <PetefromTn> just spoke with the guy with that HP. He siad he had an offer of $175.00 so if I will go higher it is mine regardless of price increment LOL I may go look at it at 5pm when he gets back home today.
[11:56:01] <pfred1> PetefromTn $175.00 almost sounds like real money to me
[11:56:21] <pfred1> how new is that CPU?
[11:56:34] <pfred1> quad core sounds kind of old for AMD now
[11:56:41] <pfred1> they're like on 8 cores now aren't they?
[11:56:42] <PetefromTn> yeah it IS real money, MY real money LOL. But unfortunately there is nothing remotely as nice locally for any cheaper.
[11:56:57] <PetefromTn> he said it is like three years old.
[11:57:10] <pfred1> yeah in computer years that is like one foot in the grave
[11:57:21] <pfred1> 2 years is aged
[11:57:25] <PetefromTn> yeah but yours are 07 ad 09 LOL
[11:57:32] <pfred1> but i paid a dollar
[11:57:38] <PetefromTn> touche'
[11:57:47] <pfred1> they were dead when I got them too
[11:58:01] <pfred1> I'm like the PC necromancer over here
[11:58:12] <pfred1> bringing them back from the dead
[11:58:12] <Crack123> btw what it the Linuxcnc source path...?
[11:58:31] <pfred1> Crack123 you should be able to determine that from the dpkg -L command
[11:58:36] <PetefromTn> LOL that's hilarous.
[11:58:41] <pfred1> Crack123 do this dpkg -L | less
[11:58:55] <pfred1> then hit the space bar and try to figure out where the actual source tree is
[11:59:11] <pfred1> because there will be documentation man pages and who knows what else with that dev package
[11:59:29] <pfred1> but we want the location of the actual source files
[11:59:46] <pfred1> you'll see a lot of files with a .c extension etc.
[12:00:05] <pfred1> you want to find a path that most resembles this src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master
[12:00:23] <pfred1> as much of that as you can find and we'll make the rest
[12:00:48] <pfred1> if we have to make ethercat/master under src/hal/drivers that is OK
[12:00:56] <Crack123> now i know why not many ppl use this
[12:01:26] <pfred1> no it isn't just clicking yes buttons all of the time
[12:01:36] <Crack123> its like programm ur own OS
[12:01:38] <pfred1> but when you do stuff like this it can be very powerful too
[12:01:56] <Crack123> some times its enough for me if stuff work, dont need to know how :(
[12:01:57] <Tom_itx> powerful enough to shoot your foot off
[12:02:02] <pfred1> like when Windows just doesn't do one thing you want it to
[12:02:24] <Crack123> well since Win7 i havent 1 problem
[12:02:26] <pfred1> Tom_itx I can't say I've never done it but I've gone out of my way in order to do it
[12:02:53] <Crack123> iam just confused
[12:03:06] <Crack123> all this docus are like download file a then yvxyfeqfq then youre rdy
[12:03:17] <pfred1> Crack123 so was the guy who wrote the code but he got past it
[12:03:34] <Crack123> hu?
[12:03:43] <pfred1> all you need to do is put the tar archive where it belongs
[12:03:49] <pfred1> it isn't hard
[12:04:06] <pfred1> you have the location on your machine now
[12:04:07] <Crack123> its just hard if the path dont exist
[12:04:17] <pfred1> well you have enouhg of it you can make the rest
[12:04:24] <PetefromTn> cya guys talk later.
[12:04:27] <pfred1> l8r
[12:05:30] <pfred1> Crack123 I'd tell you exactly where to copy the file but I cannot see what is on your system
[12:06:32] <Crack123> wanna use teamviewer or smth?
[12:06:40] <Crack123> cause i have no focking clue rly
[12:06:49] <pfred1> well usually with Linux we use pastebin
[12:07:15] <pfred1> so someone remotely can see a bunch of output and try to make sense of it
[12:07:29] <pfred1> install pastebinit
[12:07:31] <Crack123> well what should i post u xD
[12:07:40] <pfred1> aptitude install pastebinit
[12:08:05] <pfred1> then pastebinit dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev
[12:08:17] <pfred1> and I'll have a look at it
[12:09:11] <Crack123> hm cant read from dpkg
[12:10:50] <pfred1> oh wait
[12:11:04] <pfred1> pastebinit - dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev
[12:11:45] <pfred1> apparently pastebinit needs the - to read stdin
[12:11:57] <pfred1> I don't use the stuff much myself
[12:12:10] <Crack123> so its next line blinking
[12:12:39] <Crack123> i bet that stuff i wanna do dont work with it anyways lol
[12:18:18] <tandoori> im sad i want a mill/router so bad :-p
[12:18:41] <tandoori> pfred1: its all your fault :-P
[12:21:03] <pfred1> tandoori I have a mill
[12:21:23] <pfred1> OK you need to redirect std out
[12:21:32] <pfred1> let me figure out how pastebinit does that
[12:21:36] <pfred1> sec
[12:21:57] <Crack123> this feels like to dunno fly a space shuttle to the moon
[12:22:41] <pfred1> Crack123 wait until you get to compiling this is nothing
[12:23:02] <pfred1> ah pipe it
[12:23:19] <pfred1> OK dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev | pastebinit
[12:23:24] <pfred1> that should work
[12:23:35] <pfred1> ctrl+c the blinking cursor
[12:24:30] <pfred1> then it should give yo ua URL
[12:24:36] <pfred1> give me the URL
[12:24:37] <Crack123> getting many files in a list
[12:25:11] <Crack123> or
[12:25:15] <pfred1> yes dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev lists every file in the linuxcnc-dev package on your system
[12:25:17] <Crack123> this line ?
[12:25:32] <Crack123> between dev and paste
[12:25:41] <Crack123> ah lol
[12:25:43] <Crack123> sec
[12:25:50] <pfred1> we need to find where there we have to install the tar archive you have
[12:25:55] <JesusAlos> by
[12:26:15] <pfred1> then we should get to the good stuff
[12:26:30] <Crack123> http://pastebin.com/NB49wx4E
[12:26:58] <pfred1> that's it huh?
[12:27:07] <Crack123> hm
[12:27:16] <Crack123> well i closed terminal between it
[12:27:20] <dosas> i'm trying to compilev lcnc on ubuntu 12.04 with rtai kernel but when i configure it says it wants the path to the rt --with-realtime=<path> anyone knows which path to give here
[12:27:28] <pfred1> that isn't it
[12:27:37] <pfred1> we need the src package
[12:27:41] <Crack123> well i was close to shut down pc and throw HD onto wall :p
[12:27:48] <pfred1> try this aptitude install linuxcnc-src
[12:28:58] <Crack123> me or dosa
[12:29:40] <pfred1> dosas I think it wants the path to RTAI
[12:29:46] <dosas> yes
[12:29:52] <dosas> but where is my rtai
[12:29:59] <dosas> to the image or the headers
[12:30:03] <dosas> or somewhere else
[12:30:03] <pfred1> sec
[12:30:12] <pfred1> I imagine the source
[12:30:28] <pfred1> the server i have my notes on from when I did it is off now
[12:30:43] <pfred1> I built LinuxCNC on Debian
[12:30:50] <dosas> okay
[12:30:58] <pfred1> which is a lot like doing it on Ubuntu
[12:31:09] <pfred1> I also did it on Gentoo but that was so so
[12:31:29] <pfred1> I missed a critical kernel compile flag and it didn't work 100%
[12:31:38] <dosas> o
[12:31:42] <pfred1> I almost got it to work though :)
[12:31:59] <pfred1> I finally emailed RTAI and they straightened me out
[12:32:23] <pfred1> CONFIG_SPARSE_IRQ=Y
[12:32:36] <pfred1> that drove me nuts!
[12:32:39] <dosas> good to know
[12:32:52] <pfred1> yeah if you have a multi core CPU you have to say Y to that
[12:33:10] <pfred1> or you get this bizarre message about symblos are not found in the module
[12:33:14] <pfred1> symbols even
[12:33:18] <dosas> ah you compiled the kernel
[12:33:22] <pfred1> yes
[12:33:28] <pfred1> and LinuxCNC
[12:33:28] <dosas> no i want to compile lcnc
[12:33:46] <pfred1> I did a total build
[12:34:06] <pfred1> well LinuxCNC still needs the path to RTAI
[12:34:24] <dosas> yes
[12:34:34] <dosas> but i do not know ehich path to use
[12:34:37] <dosas> do you
[12:34:39] <pfred1> I can almost figure it out from a screenshot i have
[12:35:21] <pfred1> it is somewhere near /usr/realtime I think
[12:35:40] <pfred1> because that is the default location RTAI installs to
[12:35:41] <dosas> okay
[12:35:45] <dosas> thanks
[12:35:58] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/oPOsH0N.png
[12:36:02] <pfred1> RTAI on Gentoo!
[12:36:18] <tandoori> pfred1: what sort of things do you mill?
[12:36:22] <dosas> looks good
[12:36:28] <dosas> i have no usr realtime
[12:36:28] <pfred1> but I couldn't get X Window and axis to run
[12:36:30] <dosas> that is bad
[12:36:59] <pfred1> tandoori oh my CNC machine isn't done yet but I have a manual mill
[12:37:08] <pfred1> I am making a CNC router for woodworking
[12:37:21] <pfred1> I just got done making a new PSU for it
[12:37:47] <pfred1> new CNC PSU http://i.imgur.com/XSiJp4R.jpg
[12:38:00] <pfred1> hmmm I have a newer picture than that
[12:38:29] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/FRK/KF2Q/HN82NHI3/FRKKF2QHN82NHI3.jpg
[12:38:57] <pfred1> tahat is just the bridge and filter caps I keep the transformer in a separate metal box
[12:39:02] <dosas> about installing rtai
[12:39:13] <dosas> i installed precompilded .deb packages
[12:39:28] <dosas> uname -r gives me 3.4.55-rtai-1
[12:39:37] <dosas> but i do not have the /usr/realtime
[12:39:48] <Crack123> well i think i give up here lol
[12:40:19] <pfred1> Crack123 could you install the source package?
[12:40:32] <Crack123> i have no clue
[12:40:32] <pfred1> the dev doesn't have the source tree it is just headers and man pages
[12:40:44] <pfred1> which is what dev packages usually are
[12:41:20] <pfred1> Crack123 did you run aptitude install linuxcnc-src ?
[12:41:33] <Crack123> yea
[12:41:42] <pfred1> OK dpkg -L linuxcnc-src
[12:42:31] <CaptHindsight> pfred1: what hardware are you using? (mainboard, cpu)
[12:42:56] <pfred1> CaptHindsight that machine is an HP a6130n
[12:43:08] <pfred1> I bought it at a thrift store for $5
[12:43:58] <CaptHindsight> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ / 2.6 GHz Chipset Type NVIDIA GeForce 6150 / nForce 430
[12:44:03] <pfred1> but it is an upgrade over my Gateway 1GHz P3 that I found in a trash pile
[12:44:12] <pfred1> yes
[12:44:13] <Crack123> ok i didnt install it cause he dont find it
[12:44:34] <pfred1> Crack123 no package called linuxcnc-src?
[12:44:39] <Crack123> dont find it yes
[12:45:00] <pfred1> aptitude search linuxcnc
[12:45:32] <Crack123> so 7 lines now with stuff
[12:45:45] <pfred1> does one line say it is the source files?
[12:46:06] <pfred1> that is the package you need
[12:46:09] <Crack123> its 1 time linuxcnc, then with -dev and 5 times with doc end
[12:47:02] <pfred1> OK try this dpkg -L linuxcnc | grep src
[12:47:11] <pfred1> maybe the source comes with the main package?
[12:47:48] <CaptHindsight> I like the wooden enclosure for the PSU
[12:48:14] <pfred1> CaptHindsight heh yeah I'm thinking about sanding it some more and maybe painting it
[12:48:27] <CaptHindsight> I like the rustic look
[12:48:38] <pfred1> oh it's rustic i found the wood in my lean to
[12:48:45] <Crack123> hm there nothing happens
[12:48:55] <CaptHindsight> it's practically found art
[12:48:56] <pfred1> Crack123 I was afraid of that
[12:49:05] <Crack123> yeah me to
[12:49:22] <pfred1> Crack123 i honestly don't know how LinuxCNC distributes their source from the repository
[12:49:29] <pfred1> Crack123 but there is another way to do this
[12:49:40] <pfred1> you can do it with the first set of instructions
[12:49:45] <pfred1> that i liked better anyways
[12:50:13] <pfred1> that would be these http://www.etherlab.org/en/ethercat/index.php
[12:50:32] <Crack123> i know this pdf
[12:51:10] <pfred1> you can get the source code for LinuxCNC
[12:51:31] <pfred1> why it isn't in the repository I've no idea
[12:51:56] <Crack123> well maybe i try it later but atm my mood is just down
[12:51:57] <pfred1> Crack123 do yo uknow which version of LinuxCNC you have?
[12:52:24] <Crack123> Linix is 10.40 , linuxcnc is 2.5.3
[12:52:29] <pfred1> not that it really matters by the time we're done you can have a different one
[12:52:30] <Crack123> Linux
[12:52:39] <pfred1> OK 2.5.3
[12:53:28] <pfred1> let's see if we can find you a release tarball shanshot for that
[12:56:35] <pfred1> it looks like your only option is git
[12:56:55] <Crack123> ut would be much easier if i would know what i do here xD
[12:57:08] <pfred1> Crack123 do this aptitude search git
[12:57:30] <Crack123> yep
[12:57:37] <pfred1> aptitude show git
[12:57:48] <pfred1> you might as well know what you're getting involved with
[12:58:08] <Crack123> it say no real paket
[12:58:16] <Crack123> no actual version
[12:58:23] <pfred1> OK don't do this in your sudo terminal do this as a normal user
[12:58:35] <Crack123> eh?
[12:58:36] <pfred1> because you don't want all these files owned by root
[12:58:51] <pfred1> open another terminal up as yoru regular user
[12:58:54] <Crack123> k
[12:59:09] <Crack123> ah i see root none root kk
[12:59:15] <pfred1> type cd into it then enter to go to your home directory
[12:59:27] <pfred1> then mkdir linuxcnc
[12:59:28] <Crack123> ye
[12:59:31] <pfred1> cd linuxcnc
[12:59:41] <pfred1> so this whole mess will g ointo that directory
[12:59:57] <Crack123> yr
[12:59:58] <pfred1> now back to your root window install git with aptitude install git
[13:00:13] <pfred1> because you probably don't have git installed
[13:00:46] <Crack123> same as ethercat thing before....
[13:00:47] <pfred1> Crack123 this is what you have to do now http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?git
[13:01:10] <pfred1> but do that in your regular user window
[13:01:14] <pfred1> not as root
[13:01:48] <pfred1> root will have to do some stuff later but we'll leave root out of it for as long as we can
[13:02:06] <Crack123> i dont think that work now how u think it should
[13:02:23] <pfred1> you installed git?
[13:03:05] <Crack123> root window it says some weird error msg like no paket ( i cant even translate this word with google) and none root it say me some no permission lines
[13:04:04] <pfred1> you must have ran the command in the wrong window
[13:04:12] <Crack123> i tryd in both^^
[13:04:12] <pfred1> only root can install
[13:04:37] <Crack123> i cant translate this one word
[13:04:37] <pfred1> the window with the #
[13:05:06] <Crack123> candidate version or smth
[13:05:30] <pfred1> try this type which git
[13:06:23] <pfred1> I wish we could just download a snapshot
[13:06:33] <pfred1> but I'm not seeing that option
[13:07:52] <pfred1> so you need git in order to proceed
[13:08:21] <Crack123> better i get some windows operation programm :(
[13:08:39] <pfred1> well half the problem is the version LinuxCNC runs on is not supported anymore
[13:08:59] <pfred1> 10.04 went end of life last spring
[13:09:12] <Crack123> somewhere wroted dont update it
[13:09:18] <pfred1> so the repositories for it are shut down now
[13:09:35] <pfred1> yes LinuxCNC should have moved to a newer version of Ubuntu
[13:09:45] <pfred1> one that is still supported
[13:09:52] <Crack123> hm
[13:10:09] <pfred1> what you might be able to do is change the repository
[13:10:15] <pfred1> there might still be one alive somewhere
[13:10:30] <pfred1> I'd be very surprised in fact if there wasn't
[13:10:43] <pfred1> but what that is I cannot say
[13:10:58] <pfred1> I'll try to find one
[13:12:25] <pfred1> Crack123 OK now for some real funky Linux tinkering
[13:12:47] <pfred1> Crack123 there is a file that tells aptitude where to look for software
[13:13:05] <pfred1> Crack123 but where you're looking the server is probably dead now
[13:13:24] <pfred1> so we're going to try a different server
[16:10:52] <_DJ_> gn8
[19:01:19] <tandoori> or do i need a lathe to make such items?
[19:01:26] <tandoori> hey! how did I get in here?
[19:01:46] <tandoori> heh I accidentally swapped channels
[19:01:52] <andypugh> Of course you need a lathe
[19:01:57] <tandoori> stupid keyboard shortcuts
[19:02:12] <tandoori> andypugh: lol how can you say that?
[19:02:24] <andypugh> Everyone needs a lathe
[19:04:08] <tandoori> andypugh: i need a mill/router first
[19:04:37] <kwallace> A mill could be a lathe, but then it would be a lathe, which everyone needs.
[19:07:19] <AR_> lathes are nice to have
[19:08:22] <Tom_itx> yeah andypugh has a 'lathe' mill
[19:09:04] <AR_> a lathe mill
[19:09:37] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_qEwL9vi3g
[19:10:07] <AR_> oh a horizontal mill lol
[19:11:10] <tandoori> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Ypo_4zHvo that's my fav so far
[19:12:02] <AR_> i played with engraving pcbs
[19:12:09] <AR_> didnt get very good results
[19:12:24] <AR_> i prefer having them sent out and get soldermask anyway
[19:13:28] <tandoori> look at that sexy ground plane
[19:19:13] <AR_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZYJyJ4qUc&noredirect=1
[19:19:14] <AR_> lol
[19:19:17] <AR_> i love these vids
[19:23:31] <kwallace> Another option is a lathe _on_ a mill: http://www.tenlinks.com/news/PR/tormach/gfx/071408_duality_lathe1.jpg
[19:25:49] <tandoori> kwallace: who has enough money for something like that?
[19:26:07] <tandoori> looks like it would cost at least 23k USD
[19:26:34] <tandoori> i'll stick with a desktop-something
[19:29:56] <kwallace> It's a manual lathe on a mill with a bracket that fits on the quill. That way you have a CNC lathe,sort of. Hacking a similar setup should be doable.
[19:30:32] <kwallace> Oops, the bracket holds the lathe tools.
[19:37:25] <tandoori> hmm
[19:37:34] <kwallace> tandoori: I bet a KickStarter project could fund a new mill.
[19:37:53] <kwallace> The setup in the picture is about $13k, but all the fun stuff has be done. You pretty much get to just use it.
[19:38:21] <kwallace> be/been
[19:38:59] <andypugh> tandoori: The mill is $7k, the lathe is another $1395
[19:39:19] <AR_> no fun just buying one
[19:39:44] <kwallace> + the stand, computer and stuff I forgot.
[19:40:00] <andypugh> The Tormach slant-bed is geting close to release, I reckon, too.
[19:41:32] <tandoori> huh
[19:41:36] <tandoori> just a moment, please
[19:42:48] <kwallace> dinner time for me.
[19:42:50] <AR_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1IDHIcyHLY&noredirect=1
[19:42:56] <AR_> i wish some people were dead
[19:44:24] <andypugh> EH?
[20:29:34] <tjb1> Wow that's col AR_
[22:40:19] <JACK1> 中国的IRC好冷清啊