#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-10-25

[01:56:07] <mrsun> hmm 0.01mm runout on the ER chuck for the lathe is acceptable? :)
[02:09:33] <_DJ_> moin
[02:33:08] <MacGalempsy> mornin dj
[02:53:31] <_DJ_> good morning MacGalempsy
[03:36:44] <MacGalempsy> well, at least something is getting done tonight
[04:27:05] <MacGalempsy> zzzzz
[05:56:59] <jthornton> kinda lumpy in here this morning
[06:07:19] <jthornton> anyone use fwbackups?
[06:07:54] <archivist> backups...who does them
[06:09:02] <jthornton> I'm thinking of it after losing my video card on my main computer in the shop
[06:09:21] <jthornton> dust and dirt killed it
[06:10:33] <archivist> and modern solder on bga holding the chip on to the board, cannot handle the temperature shifting
[06:11:22] <archivist> some are fixing stuff by reflowing the solder in an oven
[06:13:06] <archivist> so do I extend the rotary thread with a real test, considering I have obtained a 2500 line encoder
[06:17:35] <jthornton> I would... but I don't know what you just said
[06:20:11] <archivist> to prove/ disprove the worm quality in a rotary
[06:20:27] <jthornton> ah, I understand now
[06:21:37] <archivist> the encoder I got was a faulty one, had dust on the scale so have cleaned it, it would also be a sensible test of my cleaning efforts
[06:56:34] <Jymmm> I need to design/draw up something like this, including the bars and the pressed stop tabs that would be done before it's bent. how do you compensate for that? http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/u-bolt-58255-2823177.jpg
[06:57:33] <archivist> its called bending allowance
[06:57:52] <archivist> plenty of sites show that calculation
[07:00:05] <Jymmm> looking....
[07:08:01] <Jymmm> Is there any CAD programs that will do this for me?
[07:10:35] <archivist> cad.... yes the sheet metal bit of solidworks, but it is not rocket science to do in a spreadsheet
[07:11:44] <Jymmm> For me, it might as well be. Is sheet metal an addon? I have an ancient SW2004 version.
[07:12:24] <archivist> and in this case is such a large radius that one could just use the radius to middle of the arc and work out the circumference
[07:14:30] <archivist> but just provide drawing to the manufacturer, they will know what to do
[07:16:41] <Jymmm> I need to prototype it here on the laser first, does SW come with sheetmetal or is it an addon?
[07:17:37] <archivist> I am too lazy to log onto your copy to find out if it came with it
[07:18:14] <Jymmm> It's not even installed, that's kinda why I asked.
[07:18:46] <archivist> ffs, go look on your cd
[07:19:14] <Jymmm> I rarely ever use it, I dont know enough about SW to know whats inclouded to not.
[07:36:46] <Jymmm> Ok, looks ike SW2004 does have sheetmetal, but it's broken in this version, need at least 2006, or 2009 would even be better. humbug
[07:39:16] <Tom_itx> you looking at material loss in the bend or what angle to bend them to straight?
[07:39:55] <Tom_itx> we did bend allowance for aluminum sheet for hydropress forms and that angle was around 2-3 deg
[07:40:16] <Jymmm> mostly where to put the tabs along the length of the material
[07:40:36] <Jymmm> (they have to align to another part)
[07:40:42] <Tom_itx> i haven't dealt with roundbar bending
[07:40:53] <Tom_itx> i'm sure there are formula for it
[07:41:14] <archivist> not a lot of difference to sheet methinks
[07:41:31] <Tom_itx> https://www.google.com/search?q=roundbar+bend+allowance&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[07:41:41] <Jymmm> archivist: I think sheetmetal will be fine too.
[07:42:02] <Tom_itx> http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/posts/14584.html
[07:42:22] <Tom_itx> Think of it this way. When you bend material, the outside of the bend causes a stretching of material. The inside of the bend actually shrinks the material. At roughly 1/3 the way through the material from the inside of the bend, you will have a neutral area where the material neither stretches or is compressed.
[07:42:35] <Jymmm> But as I may have to create different sizes, I'd liek for the drawing to adjust for it automatically, reoving the fubar factor
[07:43:11] <Jymmm> as well as adjust the mating part automagically
[07:44:09] <Tom_itx> http://www.sarcea.co.za/minimumhook.php
[07:46:35] <Tom_itx> http://www.jorgensonmachinetools.com/bend-allowance-calculator
[07:50:42] <Tom_itx> for solidworks: https://forum.solidworks.com/message/216712
[07:51:45] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtHQLIw_hOM
[07:53:13] <false> PCW: you there?
[07:53:53] <MacGalempsy> man, it seems like the workflow would be easier on this stuff!
[08:00:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: TY btw
[08:00:51] <Tom_itx> yup
[08:01:14] <Jymmm> archivist: and the bend allowance mention
[09:19:25] <JT_Shop> 530 miles on the mountain bike
[09:19:47] <archivist> was it on the trailer :)
[09:20:06] <JT_Shop> nope
[09:20:11] <JT_Shop> through the woods
[09:20:18] <jdh> JT: cool. What kind of computer do you use?
[09:21:54] <JT_Shop> my eye phone
[09:21:58] <JT_Shop> mapmyride.com
[09:22:08] <jdh> is your phone visible?
[09:22:20] <JT_Shop> no, it talks to me as I ride
[09:22:33] <jdh> my mapmyride in my pocket is less than satisfactory information. Just once every mile
[09:23:32] <JT_Shop> you can change it to 1/2 mile
[09:23:37] <false> JT_Shop: not in one go right?
[09:23:52] <archivist> counter on the wheels or I dont believe :)
[09:24:18] <jdh> I'd like to see current/avg speed, distance. Keep me motivated to keep going. (only road riding)
[09:25:37] <false> current speed would require some extra cpu time, which would translate to shorter battery life, then again, that doesn't compare to the gps chip.
[09:25:59] <archivist> I get a little exercise at the local window company unloading and sorting glass windows
[09:26:23] <jdh> false: mag encoder
[09:27:05] <false> jdh: ?
[09:27:34] <false> I understood the phone kept track of the distance coverd?
[09:27:53] <jdh> yeah, but a cheap bike computer keeps count of wheel and crank revs
[09:28:30] <false> Ah, totally didn't get you were talking about a separate device, thought you wanted that on the phone to
[09:29:53] <jdh> it would be ok on the phone, if I could see the phone
[09:30:59] <false> Well it could read back every 30 seconds, when it's giving you directions
[09:32:00] <jdh> I bought a computer, mounted all the stupid pickups and magnets... then noticed the LCD had a bad spot in it.
[09:32:04] <false> But doesn't sound very practical
[09:32:44] <false> You couldn't return just the computer
[09:32:46] <false> ?
[09:32:57] <jdh> no, had to return everything
[09:33:12] <false> Sounds like good aftersales :P
[09:33:48] <jdh> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M4jvrQghL.jpg
[09:34:07] <jdh> those are $2.16
[09:34:27] <false> Looks good, just don't fall, the phone is a lot more expensive :P
[09:34:52] <jdh> I have a few old iphones
[09:35:25] <false> Perfect, problem solved, just add a small solar panel and your good to go
[10:16:14] <false> kwallace2: Are you by any chance related to pcw?
[10:17:21] <kwallace2> Not that I know of.
[10:19:53] <skunkworks> What about mike wallace?
[10:20:25] <skunkworks> or wallace and gromit?
[10:20:44] <skunkworks> kwallace2, tormach setup?
[10:22:06] <kwallace2> Not Mike, George, Rusty or ... Sorry.
[10:22:59] <kwallace2> Maybe William?
[10:24:02] <kwallace2> I'm working on probing for the mill.
[10:31:51] <jdh> via gcode or external?
[10:58:25] <kwallace2> jdh: G-code so far but it's still early yet.
[12:01:05] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:07:50] <pcw_home> My father was William Wallace (very common name for men of Scottish decent)
[12:31:01] <t12> pcw: i sorted out more of the mitsu format, it takes some cutting and shifting to get something at looks like 0-2^17 then rollover
[12:31:41] <t12> and i got the command bye (not onhand)
[12:31:46] <t12> byte
[12:41:47] <pcw_home> so should be doable with a normal UART (I will add the autosend stuff to our UART so a timer start can do the send)
[12:44:19] <archivist> another uart device is mitutoyo serial out 52 bits with a clock
[12:45:15] <archivist> contemplating a redneck interface here with some good old ttl
[12:45:57] <t12> i have a 7i76e on the way so i can actually test
[12:46:30] <t12> is that a universal mitutoyo protocol?
[12:47:34] <archivist> not sure but I found a spec in one of the digimatic manuals
[12:48:01] <t12> pcw: is there a non-expensive development platform for producing fpga stuff for the mesa cards
[12:48:24] <archivist> t12 http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/Mitutoyo/ in one of those
[12:49:08] <t12> will check when not on phone
[12:49:43] <t12> been meaning to learn fpga stuff, just havent had projects that really require it
[12:50:01] <t12> maybe doing this kind of encoder stuff would be a good way to get into it
[12:50:10] <archivist> to get the right manual take the link off http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
[12:51:19] <archivist> its the one with the longest name
[12:52:13] <IchGuckLive> t12: you are the man all waiting for 7i76e
[12:57:43] <pcw_home> The Xilinx tools are free
[12:59:15] <Jymmm> Have jumper cables always been copper clad aluminum?
[12:59:16] <pcw_home> for playing around(as are Altera and Lattice tools)
[12:59:39] <pcw_home> good ones are welding cable
[13:00:25] <Jymmm> But other than welding cables
[13:00:39] <Jymmm> I'm not trying to start a mac truck
[13:01:24] <archivist> good ones are copper
[13:02:23] <t12> IchGuckLive: this whole project is about self-tortue
[13:03:04] <IchGuckLive> i see and we aprichiate all and stand bye you
[13:03:18] <Jymmm> Seems that unless you want to spend $174 USD at the autoparts store, they're all CCA these days
[13:10:31] <archivist> Jymmm, fleabay 261311837397 that says you are not looking hard enough
[13:13:54] <Jymmm> 10ft, not long enough.
[13:14:42] <archivist> you can get any length !
[13:21:37] <cradek> my venerable jumper cables are about 6'
[13:22:06] <cradek> I don't know why you'd want longer
[13:22:29] <cradek> good ones that are thick and stiff enough to actually work take up a lot of space
[13:29:12] <pcw_home> Now thats a big servo motor:
[13:29:13] <pcw_home> http://www.hgrinc.com/buyOurs/inventoryItemDetail.do?inventory_num=09131560101&itemName=FANUC+SERVO+MOTOR
[13:32:05] <skunkworks> only 200kw
[13:32:08] <skunkworks> ;)
[13:33:49] <archivist> the machine turns or else
[13:35:11] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[14:21:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/280995722145?lpid=82 WELDING CABLE 4/0 RED 30’
[14:30:25] <tandoori> moo
[16:53:00] <_DJ_> gn8
[17:18:02] <saki`> hey all
[18:03:59] <false> hey guys
[18:05:52] <false> Think I (well not me) killed my 7i64 :(
[18:13:31] <andypugh> How is that possible?
[18:14:27] <andypugh> Unless you fed it more than 50V it should be tough as boots.
[18:14:54] <false> Well, someone was tiding up the cabinet with the pc and part of the 24vdc circtuit powered. Long story short: upper pins of jumper w5 and or w6 got 24v
[18:15:02] <false> lights out
[18:15:22] <andypugh> Ah. I can see that 24V on logic pins would be bad
[18:15:24] <false> for a split second, but it seems dead
[18:15:34] <false> jep
[18:15:53] <andypugh> PCW: Likely to be fixable?
[18:16:15] <false> I think the pic is broken, but beyond that I dont know
[18:17:38] <false> Some quick examination leads me to believe the jumpers connect to the PIC . But PCW probably knows where to look, or just throw it away and order a new one.
[18:18:25] <false> Which would suck because I just got the ATC to function like I wanted :(
[18:19:48] <andypugh> I wonder if a generic replacement PIC can be re-programmed?
[18:20:58] <false> I would need the program from PCW, which I could imagine he'd wanna keep to himself, and I wouldn't blame him.
[18:22:11] <false> The PIC itself I can order, but maybe this whole situation has compromised the reliability of the card, in which case I will order a new one
[18:22:15] <PCW> Its a ~$2.00 pic but you would need a PIC programmer
[18:22:30] <false> The programmer I have
[18:23:27] <andypugh> Maybe replace the PIC to keep things going, and also order a replacement? Then you have a dev-quaility board
[18:23:41] <PCW> as long as nothing else was damaged, let me see where W5/W6 go
[18:23:43] <false> PCW: could this have damaged anything else, or would the PIC be the only thing that's damaged
[18:23:58] <false> beat me to it :P
[18:25:43] <PCW> unfortunately W5 and W6 go to the CPLD
[18:25:56] <false> :(
[18:26:38] <PCW> I can send a JEDEC file but the chip is more pain to replace than the PIC
[18:28:18] <false> How would I place the JEDEC ?
[18:29:11] <false> Ordering a new board would probably take less time, I would need to order the chip too
[18:29:37] <PCW> You would need a JTAG programmer
[18:31:52] <false> Phow, I have one.... somewhere. But I wouldn't know where to start. Used it back in the day to flash satalite receivers :P
[18:32:12] <false> start searching that is
[18:32:32] <PCW> Probably need one compatible with Xilinx programming software
[18:32:52] <PCW> (I have a PCB for the parallel port one)
[18:33:56] <PCW> you can return it and we can try and fix if its only the CPLD
[18:34:07] <false> Replacing the chip would be no problem, I have a hot air and a stereo. But if i order monday morning I'll have a new one on wednesday.
[18:35:48] <false> I didn't order at mesa directly, I bought it at you dealer in europe (mesanet.eu).
[18:36:10] <false> I'll just order a new one, stupid mistakes happen, but I need the machine running :P
[18:38:15] <false> Thanks for offering to send your files, most companies don't even consider that kind of service!
[18:39:12] <PCW> if you email mei can return the JEDC file and hex for the PIC
[18:39:14] <PCW> (probably just the CPLD is fried, but since its used by the PIC to
[18:39:15] <PCW> read jumper settings, the PIC probably wont communicate)
[18:39:57] <PCW> (should you want to fix it in your spare time)
[18:40:14] <false> I will do that, these things come in very handy
[18:41:01] <false> Currently only have 4 outputs left, and all the inputs are taken.
[18:42:23] <false> Can I PM you on the forum for you email?
[18:43:47] <false> Come to think of it, I can combine this with another order I have to place there anyway, saves me shipping.
[18:44:34] <PCW> PeterCWallace@mesanet.com
[18:44:35] <PCW> (just the initials)
[18:44:52] <false> Ok thanks! (again)
[18:58:55] <false> PCW: love the bunny signature :P
[19:07:06] <saki`> okay
[19:07:08] <saki`> so
[19:07:56] <saki`> what's the cheapest CNC i can make that has very high resolution and does a 6 x 6 inch area?
[19:08:32] <saki`> i want to use it to make molds to cast silicone models out of
[19:09:51] <saki`> if i have a say 500 to 600 dollar budget
[19:09:57] <jdh> heh
[19:10:06] <jdh> molds out of plastic?
[19:12:50] <saki`> yeah sure
[19:13:12] <saki`> tooling board i think its called
[19:16:44] <PetefromTn> Nothing with high precision is gonna be cheap.
[19:17:08] <jdh> that can mean vastly different things to different people.
[19:17:46] <andypugh> Tooling board is low-force
[19:17:51] <PetefromTn> yeah I suppose if to you a quarter inch precision is high resolution.
[19:18:09] <andypugh> That's a good start to the cheap-but-accurate equation
[19:18:54] <andypugh> What resolution do you need?
[19:19:35] <andypugh> Also, do you only need one, or do you need component supply security?
[19:20:11] <andypugh> Because for a one-off "Lucky on eBay" is a good start, but you can't sell a product that way.
[19:21:41] <saki`> i'm trying to make molds for stop motion puppets
[19:21:52] <saki`> so it'll have to be pretty high resolution
[19:22:34] <saki`> to the point where it looks smooth at the very least
[19:22:41] <andypugh> OK, so this machine is only for your own use.
[19:22:47] <saki`> yeah
[19:22:55] <saki`> doesn't have to be particularly fast either
[19:22:56] <andypugh> That helps a lot
[19:24:41] <andypugh> I think that a standard NEMA 23 stepper setup, with an extruded aluminium frame but with lower than standard gearing might work for you
[19:25:09] <saki`> ah okay
[19:25:49] <andypugh> Smaller steppers would be fractionally cheaper, but only fractonally.
[19:26:49] <andypugh> Now, if _I_ wanted to build a machine to do what you want to do, I wouldn't start with your budget.
[19:27:00] <saki`> what budget would you start with?
[19:27:27] <andypugh> I did start with your budget 4 years ago, and ended up with a machine I intend to sell on.
[19:28:56] <andypugh> I think you can possibly reduce your current budget and make a machine that will teach you a lot.
[19:29:08] * Jymmm waves to andypugh
[19:29:29] <andypugh> (and, it will make you some decent models, but slower than you might imagine)
[19:30:30] <saki`> oh sure slow is fine
[19:30:40] <andypugh> saki`: I guess you are here to make stuff? Always bear in mind that a lot of us here have forgotten what stuff we wanted to make when we started.
[19:31:03] <saki`> yeah i'm specifically here to make stuff
[19:31:11] <saki`> i sketch/sculpt
[19:31:26] <saki`> last few years my dyspraxia's gotten pretty bad
[19:31:46] <saki`> makes it hard to do stuff with fine motor control for long periods of time
[19:32:01] <t12> we make tools that make tools that make tools
[19:32:03] <saki`> so i'm looking to get back into working with my hands, kinda
[19:32:24] <saki`> go directly from a digital maquette to something i can work with
[19:32:27] <andypugh> I will try to bear that in mind. My hobby morphed from an idea for a clock to wanting to have some really cool CNC tools. For me the machines are the hobby, and I have forgotten what it was I wanted to make.
[19:33:07] <saki`> i've been reading this: http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/
[19:33:17] <andypugh> What are you making?
[19:33:35] <saki`> puppets for stop motion animation
[19:33:52] <saki`> i want to make the molds
[19:33:58] <andypugh> OK, so why not use additive maching (3D printin?)
[19:34:01] <saki`> that i'll be using to cast the puppets
[19:34:10] <saki`> not high resolution enough
[19:34:22] <saki`> unless i spend a ton
[19:34:27] <andypugh> 3D print + hand work?
[19:34:34] <saki`> i was looking for something i could keep in the studio
[19:34:51] <saki`> defeats the point, might as well do it from scratch then
[19:35:25] <saki`> writing, drawing, carving causes pain in my arm after maybe 5 minutes of work now
[19:35:43] <saki`> so i'm trying to cut down the discomfort a bit
[19:35:55] <andypugh> Oh, no, really not. The difference between hand-modelling or printing + a bit of smoothing is actually pretty big.
[19:36:21] <saki`> smoothing's fine
[19:36:27] <andypugh> I love CNC, but have you considered just going 100% CGI?
[19:36:54] <saki`> 100% wouldn't look as good with the resources i have available to me
[19:38:05] <andypugh> If you shifted focus, it might.
[19:38:48] <andypugh> I am no expert on CGI. (Quite the opposite) but it does seem to be very scriptable (and very intersting).
[19:39:40] <saki`> yeah rendering things within a certain time frame is pretty darn hard
[19:40:06] <saki`> if i wanted to just let something develop over several years then maybe
[19:40:27] <saki`> main objective with the CNC are these:
[19:40:28] <saki`> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6SaFVTipdyg/Tad-WCsz-oI/AAAAAAAAAHY/Y6ppFsTTrFc/s1600/Mail+Man+face+part+3+07.jpg
[19:40:48] <kwallace2> It seems parts of the CGI work flow could be "shared" on the cloud.
[19:41:00] <andypugh> So, if you wanted to get in to making your visions appear using software, then there is the option of hacking the software. On a fundamental level if you can calculate the value of every pixel then CGI can be identical to photography.
[19:41:45] <saki`> there are lots of problems to consider with subsurface scattering, glossy surfaces, etc.
[19:42:26] <andypugh> Oh, yes, I do enough CAD renndering to be aware of the subleties.
[19:43:08] <saki`> well either way
[19:43:21] <kwallace2> So there is a big difference between a model for a CNC part and a full render?
[19:43:22] <saki`> stop motion will give me an aesthetic i'll be happy with
[19:43:48] <andypugh> We are wandering away from the subject here, but arguably subsurface scattering is easier to do in software than by hoping to cast in the right material?
[19:44:49] <saki`> yeah you'd be surprised what all can be achieved with resin and a few different pigments and fillers
[19:45:35] <saki`> we make furniture out of paper mache and sawdust
[19:45:41] <andypugh> saki`: I don't think Aardman are using CGI plastacine. I acknowledge the fact of the aesthetic
[19:46:18] <saki`> aardman's doing what i do
[19:46:27] <saki`> silicone model
[19:46:30] <andypugh> So, let us get back to your original question.
[19:46:55] <saki`> yeah sure
[19:47:06] <andypugh> (rather than trying to point you at different ways to do the same thing)
[19:47:11] <saki`> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6SaFVTipdyg/Tad-WCsz-oI/AAAAAAAAAHY/Y6ppFsTTrFc/s1600/Mail+Man+face+part+3+07.jpg <-- this is largely the objective
[19:47:37] <kwallace2> So you need a system that the can produce a part needing as little finish work as possible? A mold seems like a good thing.
[19:48:20] <andypugh> I do rather think that that looks a lot better suited to addditve (3D printing) mnufacture than conventional (subtractive) machining
[19:48:40] <saki`> it is better suited to 3d printing
[19:49:16] <kwallace2> But 3D needs significant finish work.
[19:49:17] <saki`> it's just that i can't get the resolution i suppose within a reasonable amount (not several thousand dollars)
[19:49:18] <andypugh> partly because you will build a 3D model of what you want. Not waht you don't want.
[19:49:54] <saki`> well i'll still be making a mold out whatever i print out
[19:50:26] <andypugh> A mould is a model of what you don't want. And there are a number of steps between part and mould, and some of them have no obvious software path
[19:51:09] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Ye online?
[19:54:18] <andypugh> There are well-developed software paths from 3D model to 3D printed part. The path between 3D model and mould is less well trodden. Personally I am from the old-school subtractive machining of parts modellling area. When I design a machine component I tend to start with a basic shape and remove machinable-shaped chunks to get what I need.
[19:55:34] <andypugh> So, my design-flow is rather subtractive. I rather susoect that your modelling flow is based on adding the parts you do want to the 3D model?
[19:56:41] <andypugh> You might find that it makes sense to print models, polish them, then make moulds from them
[19:57:24] <saki`> i can make the 3d model of the negative mold in two parts
[19:57:56] <saki`> i'd be doing the same with a plastiline sculpture
[20:00:38] <jdh> I don't think you could cut molds for those with a plain 3 axis device.
[20:02:22] <saki`> if the nose is slightly turned up i think it's okay, no?
[20:02:31] <saki`> as long as there's no over hang
[20:02:39] <jdh> the hair
[20:04:12] <jdh> you should build one anyway. If nothing else, you can use it to build a different one.
[20:06:22] <saki`> ohhhh
[20:06:36] <saki`> yeah i could probably just do that separately
[20:06:51] <saki`> ignore the hair
[20:07:06] <saki`> heck the head's not really much of a concern
[20:07:20] <saki`> it's just the faces i want to be able to do
[20:08:13] <andypugh> saki`: Where in the world are you
[20:08:17] <saki`> pakistan
[20:08:54] <saki`> hair's just a looped guitar string dragged through clay
[20:09:05] <saki`> and then cleaned up with a needle
[20:10:17] <andypugh> what;
[20:10:34] <andypugh> Sorry, hit the wrong key
[20:11:07] <andypugh> What's the URL of your local eBay? (I tried www.ebay.pk :-)
[20:12:00] <andypugh> I would expect your import costs from China or India to be lower than mine
[20:12:13] <saki`> no local ebay
[20:12:16] <saki`> i just use aliexpress
[20:12:25] <saki`> or alibaba when i'm importing from china
[20:12:26] <andypugh> And why not
[20:12:37] <saki`> paypal's not available here
[20:12:40] <saki`> so i suppose there's that
[20:12:48] <saki`> a bit circular really
[20:13:02] <andypugh> Have you looked at the CNC engravers on aliexpress?
[20:13:30] <saki`> yeah the shipping's not going to be very nice on those
[20:13:39] <saki`> plus i wouldn't know what to trust
[20:13:56] <saki`> and parts are easier to deal with as far as customs go
[20:14:11] <saki`> i've played around with an arduino before
[20:14:37] <andypugh> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-110V-CNC-3020T-DJ-upgrade-fom-CNC-3020-CNC-3020T-Router-Engraver-Milling-Drilling/904552009.html
[20:15:54] <saki`> so this slowed down would work?
[20:16:02] <andypugh> Close to your budget
[20:17:15] <andypugh> With very overlapping paths it would probably work as-is
[20:17:38] <saki`> if i can get something with a grand that'll give me exactly what i need with few hassles i'd be willing to do that
[20:17:52] <saki`> oh sweet
[20:18:04] <andypugh> So, same axis speeds, but very many more passes. But you probably still need to hand-polish
[20:18:38] <saki`> i was concerned about the drill
[20:19:21] <andypugh> (I don't see the die-polishing businesses here going bust, the CNC revolution just means that they have more dies to polish)
[20:20:00] <andypugh> I don't think that machine will be your final solution.
[20:22:22] <saki`> well if i'm going to pay that much i might as well pay more.
[20:22:32] <saki`> and get a better investment
[20:22:45] <andypugh> I imagine that you will modify it from the day it arrives (installling LinuxCNC for a start) and then you will learn its limitations, and work out what you really want, and how to achieve it. Perhaps the spindle will be upgraded. Perhaps the spindle will become a 3D printing head. Or laser, or electron beam. Who can say? But you won't know until you start, and that looks like a decent start
[20:24:07] <saki`> ah okay
[20:26:19] <saki`> why would you put an electron beam?
[20:26:46] <andypugh> My first CNC had a tiny budget. This was good, because I wasn;t too upset when I realised that it wasn't what I wanted. (I think it is a cheap Indian copy of a cheap Chinese copy of a cheap German lathe)
[20:28:18] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:29:36] <andypugh> I don't think anyone has used selective electron beam sintering yet, but it might work. I threw it in as a random future technology (I have done some electron beam welding research and it is an amazing process. 1m thick welds in a single pass with no weld-prep or filler.
[20:31:26] <Tom_itx> does it work harden the joint?
[21:05:21] <CaptHindsight> just reading the backlog... what size are the figures? 6x6x? inch or?
[21:06:47] <andypugh> You may want to make saki` s client go "piong" by mentioning his name
[21:07:29] <andypugh> The sample look better than GGG, bit about the same as SLS
[21:08:25] <andypugh> Sorry, I think I mean scanned-laser-polymerisation, whatever that abbrieviates to
[21:08:26] <CaptHindsight> did saki` post a link with an example?
[21:08:59] <andypugh> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6SaFVTipdyg/Tad-WCsz-oI/AAAAAAAAAHY/Y6ppFsTTrFc/s1600/Mail+Man+face+part+3+07.jpg
[21:09:57] <andypugh> looks like head, + eyes + face then clay mouth for speech.
[21:11:13] <andypugh> (Actually rather an interesting field of endevour)
[21:11:18] <CaptHindsight> DLP or SLA won't need any polishing
[21:16:53] <andypugh> Can you do SLP or SLA for $600? (In Pakistan)
[21:17:49] <andypugh> Err. I meant DLP. What would SLP be, and is it patented yet?
[21:18:04] <CaptHindsight> SLA is out of patent
[21:18:34] <CaptHindsight> a chinese galvo setuo is ~$100 and a bluray laser is ~25
[21:19:23] <CaptHindsight> + z-axis and a vat with a PTFE film
[21:19:41] <andypugh> Do the galvos do vector or raster
[21:19:53] <andypugh> ?
[21:19:55] <CaptHindsight> vector
[21:20:18] <andypugh> So, it's basically G-code>
[21:20:49] <andypugh> (I am wondering if I should finish my dedicated-raster config)
[21:20:55] <CaptHindsight> the galvo inputs are usually +-10V
[21:21:31] <andypugh> Input is bitmap, output is motor position + intensity. No G-code
[21:21:55] <CaptHindsight> there is also a stage lighting/control serial interface that they use
[21:24:01] <CaptHindsight> there is something creepy about those puppet part pics
[21:24:04] <andypugh> Intersting.
[21:24:46] <CaptHindsight> looks like it's carved from bone
[21:25:18] <CaptHindsight> printed cartilage
[21:25:29] <andypugh> I went to a work-related trade-show at work. All our suppliers showing their toys in our conference room.
[21:25:59] <andypugh> There was some EtherCAT, but also a lot of CAN and XCP-over-ethernet
[21:26:41] <andypugh> (I don't even know what XCP _is_ and it appears to be my job)
[21:27:08] <CaptHindsight> funny how the car has become place for complex forms of networks
[21:27:26] <CaptHindsight> moreso than the shop floor
[21:28:15] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCP_(Protocol)
[21:28:39] <andypugh> I wonder how Open it is?
[21:31:33] <andypugh> Vector had an interesting demo they were levitating a ball-bearing.
[21:32:35] <andypugh> Basically a prox in the base, and a solenoid above. It looked pretty trivial to achieve in LinuxCNC
[21:33:13] <andypugh> The fun challenge would be to do it with video feedback.
[21:34:10] <andypugh> But. time to sleep.
[22:00:07] <t12> http://25.media.tumblr.com/f498cda0020d922ad5e807e7fa03d382/tumblr_mupdqyn2jD1qdkeiao1_500.jpg
[22:00:18] <t12> bicycle--- airplane
[23:36:25] <saki`> oh shoot sorry
[23:36:37] <saki`> i was reading and lost track of time
[23:37:08] <saki`> CaptHindsight, i was looking at the form1
[23:38:28] <saki`> but light cured resin would be ideal for sure