Back
[00:00:42] <kwallace> I don't know if your spindle needs +/- 10V analog or 0 to +10V analog plus direction.
[00:01:07] <NickParker> 0 to 10V
[00:01:17] <NickParker> it has these switch bank things for direction
[00:01:34] <NickParker> i think they're labelled as microswitches, but that doesn't sound right.
[00:01:41] <NickParker> brb i have pictures somewhere
[00:02:05] <NickParker> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7QBEbGWL9PM/UcJYK1KHRdI/AAAAAAAAAf0/JyVC-39qzKI/w649-h865-no/IMG_0533.JPG
[00:02:18] <NickParker> black things in the top by the red transformer control direction
[00:05:17] <kwallace> I think you can do 0 to 10 with PWM. I found a level converter chip that converts Vcc to Vdd, so Vdd could be 10V, Vcc could be 3 or 5V, or use a optocoupler if you use a fast one.
[00:07:19] <kwallace> Driving those relays should not be a problem with small solid state relays.
[00:11:50] <NickParker> ok cool so I think my spindle control is set
[00:12:18] <NickParker> and I think I will try using arduinos to interpret step/dir
[00:13:00] <NickParker> because the extra reliability of the 6i25 sounds like a good thing
[00:14:11] <kwallace> I just remembered anther option:
http://pico-systems.com/stepdir.html
[00:15:18] <NickParker> oh that's slick. Way smarter than an arduino.
[00:15:27] <NickParker> also, do you use half stepping with your shiz?
[00:15:37] <NickParker> I've been wondering if that would work. Didn't really see why not
[00:19:02] <kwallace> Yes, I'm using half-stepping to get .0005" resolution.
[01:09:52] <MacGalempsy> evening all
[01:28:50] <MacGalempsy> kwallace1: when you tested your servos. did you disconnect them from the ballscrews?
[01:32:25] <kwallace1> No, but as I was building the system, I did a bit of manual testing before powering up. So with the motor power off, I manually moved the screws to make sure the motion and encoders agreed.
[01:33:45] <kwallace1> Then I used a low motor voltage to get the amps set, then went to full voltage for tuning.
[01:40:29] <MacGalempsy> what I am trying to avoid disconnecting the drive belts, if possible
[01:59:20] <_DJ_> moin
[03:41:09] <false> goodmorning
[03:45:05] <false> Is it true that you can't do arithmetic inside an ABS function in classicladder? ABS(%-%)<13 for example?
[03:45:32] <false> Can't find any mention of this but it does not work
[05:42:17] <jthornton> false, I'd say if it don't work and it's not in the manual that you are correct
[05:46:32] <false> Yeah, thought I might have the syntax wrong, but looking at the source it doesn't allow for calculations inside the abs
[06:23:56] <MacGalempsy> morning
[06:25:54] <jthornton> morning
[06:27:00] <MacGalempsy> how are things going today?
[06:28:07] <MacGalempsy> been studying the integrators manual, users manual and HAL tutorial. hoping later today I begin wiring up my mesa boards
[06:28:32] <jthornton> nice
[06:28:53] <jthornton> make sure your jumpers are set correctly for your 5v
[06:29:25] <MacGalempsy> I will proably post my wiring diagram for comments before taking the plunge
[06:33:04] <MacGalempsy> trying to get the balls to hook up the 230v to the machine and start testing a few voltages0. the big transformer,rectifier and choke come out to 48v dc, assume thats for the servos. can the lines to the servo amplifiers be wired to a common power and ground?
[11:34:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:00:54] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy: ?
[12:20:19] <mrsun> hmm that page with different collet systems and their measurments etc ? :)
[12:20:20] <mrsun> anyone ?
[12:20:25] <mrsun> archivist, ... :P
[12:20:52] <IchGuckLive> ER12-ER25
[12:21:05] <IchGuckLive> ER32
[12:21:21] <archivist> there are others that er series
[12:21:23] <mrsun> is all ER collets 16 degree taper? :)
[12:21:28] <archivist> than
[12:21:49] <mrsun> i found a page before that had tapers etc of spindles and collets etc.. lost it :/
[12:21:58] <archivist> back or front taper
[12:22:05] <IchGuckLive> mrsun:
http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/SiteCollectionImages/Technical%20guide/Snapshots/us/G%20Tool%20holding/g122_large_us.jpg
[12:22:40] <mrsun> back i guess, the one that goes into the chuck and not the nut =)
[12:23:15] <archivist> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
[12:23:31] <mrsun> yes! =)
[12:23:45] <mrsun> i didnt recognize the url .. had that int he search results several times :P
[12:24:13] <mrsun> but ER isnt with there but good to have anyways =)
[12:24:17] <archivist> I have an odd taper on my horizontal mill
[12:24:52] <jthornton> whitworth taper?
[12:25:15] <archivist> no an inbetween iso
[12:25:43] <IchGuckLive> Folks someone can check the audio and vid quality on the CRC-SUB tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zw_TIX4ofA
[12:33:40] <IchGuckLive> no commant on the youtube video ?
[12:36:48] <mrsun> i cant see videos on youtube if i do not go for the "embed" version, and its disabled ont he video
[12:36:55] <mrsun> stupid youtube has been broken for two days
[12:37:18] <IchGuckLive> ok thanks
[12:39:38] <mrsun> oh well, time to go and setup the lathe for cutting some threads
[12:40:22] <kwallace> The first 20 seconds looks and sounds fine to me.
[12:40:40] <IchGuckLive> kwallace: thanks
[12:41:45] <pcw_home> Sounds fine to me as well
[12:48:03] <IchGuckLive> SMILES ;-)
[12:52:45] <PetefromTn> Afternoon folks..
[13:04:05] <WalterN> hey
[13:05:53] <isasha> Hai. I couldn't find a general CNC IRC channel, but I still have a relevant question ;)
[13:06:15] <isasha> Can I machine a closet key with a CNC machine? I've made and printed a 3D model, but it was to frail and broke in the lock
[13:07:08] <archivist> I would say yes
[13:07:10] <IchGuckLive> isasha: welcome out of
[13:07:25] <IchGuckLive> isasha: Material for the key
[13:07:33] <isasha> Here are some pics of what I'm up against:
http://imgur.com/a/sleNs
[13:07:45] <PetefromTn> Hey..
[13:07:57] <IchGuckLive> and the standart keys you can buy anywhere in the world shoudt fit for less then 5USD
[13:08:30] <isasha> Heh, doubt I can buy them here for 5 USD. But as long as you have the blank, how would I make it into a key?
[13:08:39] <IchGuckLive> isasha: wHat continent are you on
[13:08:41] <isasha> (I have absolutely zero experience with a CNC machine FIY)
[13:08:47] <isasha> IchGuckLive Europe, Switzerland
[13:08:51] <PetefromTn> Yeah I would just try to find one online somewhere making that would be difficult unless you 3d print it from metal.
[13:08:56] <IchGuckLive> ich sitz in Deutschland
[13:09:01] <WalterN> you could make that easily enough in a manual lathe and mill
[13:09:14] <IchGuckLive> isasha: Roller has all the stuff you need
[13:09:36] <isasha> this?
http://www.roller.ch/index.php?id=6
[13:09:48] <IchGuckLive> Switzerland is french italian and german what side are you
[13:09:49] <archivist> I get blanks from local locksmiths shop
[13:09:55] <isasha> French ;)
[13:12:23] <IchGuckLive> isasha: bonsoir le position Bitch frontière française
[13:12:35] <IchGuckLive> frontière française
[13:12:45] <IchGuckLive> http://otto-roller.eu/ Sorry
[13:13:12] <IchGuckLive> isasha: what is the next bigest town to you
[13:13:18] <isasha> Genf
[13:13:27] <PetefromTn> Making the basic key shank that will open the door could indeed be done on a mill and lathe of course but I am pretty sure he wants a nice looking key with the ornate handle that looks like that one does which was most likely cast in a mold, machining one like that would be time consuming to say the least.
[13:13:42] <isasha> PetefromTn nah :P
[13:13:48] <isasha> Just so that I can open the cupboard/closet
[13:14:11] <PetefromTn> Then get yourself a mill and lathe and whittle away man!!
[13:14:22] <isasha> Ha!
[13:14:38] <isasha> At that rate it would be cheaper to get a locksmith
[13:15:11] <IchGuckLive> isasha: Périllat Ed. SA rue Eugène-Marziano 17 1227 Les Acacias
[13:15:45] <isasha> Okies I'll check it out
[13:15:51] <IchGuckLive> isasha: SFS unimarket SA rue Antoine-Jolivet 4 1227 Carouge GE
[13:16:02] <isasha> Look, I'll have a look I have google too ;)
[13:16:28] <isasha> I just feel defeated because I was unable to print my own key for free :/
[13:17:06] <PetefromTn> Try a different material, make it hollow possibly and embed a piece of steel inside it with epoxy or something....
[13:17:29] <archivist> use a file only takes a few minutes
[13:17:30] <theorbtwo> I know that there are at least some locksmiths that will happily cut you a key from a photo.
[13:17:36] <IchGuckLive> isasha: did you pull out the hole dor stuff to see the messurments of it and tryed to retrofit all
[13:18:18] <isasha> PetefromTn I'll try that again, issue is that either my measurements or the printer wasn't exact, took a lot of sanding
[13:18:25] <isasha> theorbtwo good to know
[13:18:52] <isasha> IchGuckLive no, I can't open the door at all, hence why I'm trying to do this. I took measurements from the faceplate.
[13:19:11] <isasha> Also, before anyone asks, there is another similar closet next to it, and no, they key from that one doesn't work.
[13:19:16] <IchGuckLive> isasha: im living in a hose build 1876 and otto-Roller yust got a 5m walk and got the old door stuff brand new at 50Eur
[13:20:05] <IchGuckLive> isasha: you can open that kind of key lock with a simple wire hook
[13:20:11] <archivist> I take the lock off the door, go to town to locksmiths and get the blank for me to file up
[13:20:32] <isasha> archivist problem is, the lock is on the inside, no way to get into it other than cutting through the door
[13:20:37] <isasha> IchGuckLive please tell me more
[13:20:40] <archivist> for antique clocks I make from scratch
[13:21:18] <archivist> isasha, locksmith could open the door
[13:21:29] <isasha> wow, really? I did not know.
[13:21:34] <archivist> call out fee though
[13:21:41] <IchGuckLive> isasha: 12,21 CHF
[13:21:42] <isasha> /sarcasm
[13:21:53] <isasha> IchGuckLive linky :) ?
[13:22:28] <IchGuckLive> querry is the link
[13:23:22] <isasha> ya but I still can't get through the door, not much point in replacing it
[13:23:36] <isasha> I'm more interested in the simple wire hook technique :)
[13:24:10] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roaznhdnzQE
[13:24:53] <cradek> seems like you need to take apart the other lock and look at it until you understand how it unlocks.
[13:24:59] <cradek> then the next steps will be very obvious to you
[13:25:04] <isasha> good idea
[13:25:25] <cradek> whether looping a wire or filing on a piece of metal or whatever
[13:25:56] <cradek> but you have made it much harder by using your 3d printer and filling the lock with broken plastic pieces
[13:26:07] <isasha> It fell through though :)
[13:26:18] <isasha> I can see through the lock with a flashlight
[13:26:30] <cradek> ah I thought the other looks like a closed box
[13:27:10] <cradek> can you unscrew or unpin the hinges? looks like they must be on the outside of the door
[13:27:21] <isasha> Nop, it's an ancient door
[13:27:59] <archivist> you could saw the bolt off without much damage
[13:28:24] <archivist> if a sprung bolt then even easier
[13:28:28] <isasha> archivist and how would I do that? just saw around the lock to take it out?
[13:28:37] <archivist> the gap
[13:28:52] <archivist> saw blade hand held
[13:29:02] <isasha> euh
[13:29:04] <IchGuckLive> im off bye
[13:29:12] <isasha> I think I'll try IchGuckLive's technique first
[13:29:43] <isasha> But I'm afraid the wire won't be solid enough to twist the ancient lock
[13:30:07] <archivist> some door locks can be opened by a credit card in the gap
[13:30:30] <isasha> archivist
http://imgur.com/a/sleNs
[13:30:33] <archivist> one springs the bolt pulling backwards
[13:32:09] <archivist> the rectangular part can be cut in the gap , best to use a skeleton key (locksmith)
[13:32:39] <isasha> I'll look into the spring hook thingy, if that doesn't work I'll probably get a blank and try to mill it myself. If that doesn't work (:P), then I guess I'd have to pay someone to do it from measurements.
[13:33:59] <archivist> I have used wire, fiddly but works
[13:34:22] <isasha> I'm just a bit concerned it won't be thick enough
[13:34:57] <archivist> I used about 1.5-2mm iirc
[13:35:21] <archivist> depends how many levers the lock has
[13:35:24] <isasha> Oh would it work if I just soldered together a bunch of thick wires? I don't have any really thick ones
[13:35:59] <archivist> use steel wire, needs some strength
[13:36:05] <Jymmm> archivist: probably only one lever
[13:36:11] <archivist> fencing wire
[13:36:18] <isasha> hmm good point
[13:36:54] <Jymmm> isasha: did you disassemble the lock itself?
[13:37:02] <isasha> No, it's still in the door, locked
[13:37:22] <isasha> brb
[13:37:30] <Jymmm> isasha: and you are trying to get a key, or just open the door?
[13:38:07] <Jymmm> isasha: If you just want the door open, just pick the lock.
[13:41:08] <Jymmm> isasha: Cn you take a closeup of this
http://i.imgur.com/G2W831Oh.jpg
[13:42:44] <andypugh> mrsun:
http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/ER_Collet.html
[13:42:55] <andypugh> (Not the info you need though).
[13:44:21] <andypugh> Maritool has a drawing:
http://www.maritool.com/Collets-ER-Collets-ER-Collet-Sets/c21_56_22/p1028/ER-32-COLLET-20-PIECE-ENGLISH-SET/product_info.html
[13:44:47] <andypugh> All 8 degrees.
[13:52:22] <archivist> mrsun,
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/REGO-FIX_ER_Dimensions_ER_Collets.pdf
[13:56:25] <archivist> mrsun, better includes the cavity
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/Rego_fix/
[14:27:56] <tandoori> moo
[14:28:35] <tandoori> so then, i was asking a question, like would it be better to build or buy a cnc mill
[14:28:43] <tandoori> pros and cons
[14:28:56] <archivist> depends :)
[14:29:39] <archivist> make one and you will learn why industrial machines are big and solid
[14:29:55] <Tom_itx> if i win the lottery, i'm gonna go buy a new mori seki VMC
[14:30:50] <tandoori> archivist: i dont know...it increases precision?
[14:31:14] <Tom_itx> rigidity
[14:31:17] <archivist> tandoori, a common thing to do is retrofit an industrial manual machine
[14:31:35] <Tom_itx> or find a cnc with the control shot
[14:31:58] <archivist> you need rigidity to get a better finish and not break tooling
[14:33:04] <tandoori> it would be better for me to get separate pieces and go from there, i guess
[14:33:37] <archivist> pieces of what
[14:36:02] <tandoori> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/desktop-cnc-mill-kits-shapeoko-2
[14:36:07] <tandoori> heh look at that
[14:37:20] <WalterN> I wouldent get that
[14:37:28] <archivist> rather light weight flimsy machine to consider cutting metal
[14:38:01] <PetefromTn> I think the best bet short of buying new is to buy a used machine tool in good shape with a blown control and retrofit the control having already done a retrofit on a manual machine. Much easier.
[14:38:43] <archivist> I agree my lathe was easy as it was already cnc
[14:39:10] <tandoori> i don't know what any of that means. i am an electrical guy, not mechanical
[14:39:16] <Tom_itx> that's silly
[14:39:26] <Tom_itx> it uses a dremem for a spindle
[14:39:33] <Tom_itx> dremel*
[14:39:36] <Tom_itx> bad idea
[14:39:38] <tandoori> furthermore, everytime i mention a mill that i like, i always get the response 'i wouldn't get that'
[14:39:41] * tandoori chuckles
[14:40:02] <Tom_itx> so start looking for a heavier one
[14:40:46] <tandoori> a heavier what?
[14:40:59] <tandoori> aren't the heavy ones thousands of dollars?
[14:41:13] <WalterN> heavier, and make sure it has ballscrews, and preferably servo motors
[14:41:15] <tandoori> im saving for my house, i dont have that kind of money to just throw around, lol
[14:41:35] <tandoori> now i know what a servo motor is, not sure what a ballscrew is
[14:41:41] <archivist> tandoori, you can get an old machine for scrap value
[14:41:45] <tandoori> i know what a balljoint is like on an automobile
[14:42:06] <WalterN> yeah, get an old machine, like one with a bandit controller
[14:42:12] <WalterN> for $1000 or something
[14:42:53] <tandoori> WalterN: i wont be rich until i am 30 years old
[14:43:00] <tandoori> and that's a few years away
[14:43:39] <archivist> my 5 axis probably is under £600 total cost
[14:43:51] <tandoori> thats around 1200 USD
[14:44:03] * tandoori pinches archivist's cheek
[14:44:13] <archivist> built it over a year or two
[14:44:45] <tandoori> if i build or get something like that, it had better be able to machine automobile parts
[14:44:47] <archivist> was cutting gears with only two axes
[14:45:57] <archivist> went to three within days, the Z remaining manual for a while
[14:46:32] <PetefromTn> Sounds like you are maybe not ready to have a CNC mill then LOL
[14:46:38] <WalterN> yeah
[14:46:52] <WalterN> I wouldent touch anything until there is about $1000 free
[14:46:55] <tandoori> i mostly want one to machine pcbs for my electronic projects. i think the results is much better than other methods
[14:47:18] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure i agree with that
[14:47:25] <PetefromTn> You can do that with a decent flatbed router, don't need a mill.
[14:47:35] <archivist> the machine needs to be reasinable with no backlash to do pcbs
[14:47:47] <archivist> reasonable
[14:48:04] <PetefromTn> My pal Art built an all aluminum router that makes PCB's pretty nice.
[14:48:08] <archivist> the ballscrews matter for pcb work
[14:48:44] <WalterN> a lot
[14:48:54] <tandoori> Tom_itx: its my opinion, whether or not you agree is notwithstanding
[14:49:38] <tandoori> so this backlash, is that some kind of bounce effect?
[14:50:09] <PetefromTn> Its what happens when newbs come on asking for how to buy a CNC mill for a dollar LOL.
[14:50:12] <tandoori> is/are
[14:50:26] <archivist> no, the screw turns but the axis does not move for a few thou
[14:50:42] <archivist> play in the nut
[14:51:00] <Tom_itx> tandoori, i get quite good results with the laser toner transfer method:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch6.jpg http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyboard1.jpg
[14:51:07] <tandoori> PetefromTn: im here to gather info. and support
[14:51:20] <Tom_itx> and alot cheaper than a mill for it
[14:51:34] <Tom_itx> but i've got a mill as well
[14:51:36] <PetefromTn> tandoori: Just bustin' yer chops man....You've come to the right place.
[14:51:39] <tandoori> my point is that if i pony that much money, it had better be a damn good mill
[14:51:46] <tandoori> :-D yay
[14:51:49] <PetefromTn> How much money...
[14:51:56] <tandoori> 1k +
[14:52:05] <Tom_itx> 1k isn't much for a mill really
[14:52:16] * tandoori chuckles
[14:52:22] <tandoori> so it seems
[14:52:24] <PetefromTn> You are not gonna find a damn good mill for 1k, maybe a small tabletop router
[14:52:38] <WalterN> tandoori:
http://www.artcotools.com/compete-nsk-e3000-series-spindle-system-60-000-rpm.html
[14:52:48] <PetefromTn> Do you understand the difference between a mill and a router?
[14:54:39] <WalterN> that spindle and driver runs about $3,000
[14:55:59] <tandoori> sheesh, i dont think i would need something that...
[14:56:03] <tandoori> what is the word?
[14:56:03] <archivist> I used a lathe headstock as my mill spindle
[14:56:10] <tandoori> precise
[14:56:13] <archivist> cheap
[14:56:32] <archivist> scrap a lathe use the bits
[14:57:07] <WalterN> you dont think a PCB does not need to be that precise?
[14:57:10] <WalterN> o.0
[14:57:16] <WalterN> erm
[14:57:30] <WalterN> *dont think a PCB needs to be that precise
[14:57:50] <tandoori> so what i need is a router and not a mill
[14:59:42] <PetefromTn> tandoori: Hey man you might check out Microcarve, that guy makes some sweet little routers that would be good for that kinda thing from MDF and ships them take down style. They are even able to cut some metal. Check them out...
[15:00:40] <WalterN> whats that dinky little ..
[15:00:43] <WalterN> sherline?
[15:01:08] <WalterN> http://www.sherline.com/
[15:01:18] <WalterN> they make little CNC mill things
[15:01:24] <PetefromTn> You need to contact him thru the CNCzone...forum.
[15:01:35] <WalterN> I dont like them because they are too lightweight
[15:02:10] <tandoori> must be nice to have thousands of dollars to throw around, and here i was being given shite for wanting to build a 800K house (land, materials, furniture and labour included) in a couple of years.
[15:02:49] <tandoori> i'll just stick with the toner transfer method for now
[15:02:51] <archivist> here is mine at the two cnc rest manual stage
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage4/P2030017.JPG
[15:04:20] <tandoori> nice heavy duty machine
[15:04:49] <archivist> the column at that stage was terrible
[15:05:55] <tandoori> not sure what that means, but I will agree with you
[15:06:16] <PetefromTn> http://www.microcarve.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=53
[15:06:18] <archivist> needed a lot of extra rigidity, the bottom XY was £15, the lathe free, the rotary borrowed, the stepper on the right new
[15:06:30] <PetefromTn> http://www.microcarve.com/forum/attachment.php?aid=42
[15:07:25] <tandoori> well, i wont be able to afford any decent cnc (machine, be it mill or router or otherwise) until I get my home built anyway
[15:08:39] <WalterN> need a place to put stuff
[15:08:40] <archivist> the aluminium in that image was from a scrap yard for a few pounds
[15:09:06] <WalterN> when you build the house, make sure it has at least CAT6 wire all through it, and three phase power going to the garage
[15:09:07] * toner transfer method is always superior ;P
[15:09:10] <tandoori> WalterN: not just that, I am poor-ish until then.
[15:09:49] <tandoori> lol, who do you think you are talking to? My house is going to have direct-DC outlets, and be off the grid with wind turbine and solar power generators
[15:10:31] <tandoori> oops
[15:10:34] <tandoori> sorry toner
[15:10:35] <tandoori> haha
[15:11:01] <PetefromTn> Anyone making anything cool with Lcnc today>
[15:11:54] <WalterN> good luck making your own power
[15:12:52] <tandoori> some of my personal designs are being built into this home. i am very excited. Luck? I don't need luck, its going to happen. Why are you so skeptical? you make it seem as if my home is going to be the first that is off the grid :-P
[15:13:30] <WalterN> unless you are in the peoples republic of califorina, I dont think it would be worth it
[15:13:52] <cradek> given natural gas for cooking and heating, and being in a climate where AC is not needed, and having a lifestyle that's not heavily dependent on electronics, that's quite possible
[15:13:58] <tandoori> has nothing to do about being 'worth it' has everything to do with 'doing it'
[15:14:03] <archivist> DC is a killer, AC is easier to distribute
[15:14:12] <cradek> (I meant air conditioning)
[15:14:14] <toner> tandoori: lol no worries
[15:14:24] <tandoori> archivist for long distances, yes, for short distances, DC is just fine
[15:14:26] <cradek> low voltage DC for lighting is fine
[15:14:46] <WalterN> running DC for stuff like LED lighting would be good
[15:14:48] <mozmck> I have always heated with wood. Gives me good exercise cutting it too.
[15:15:00] <WalterN> mozmck: same
[15:15:01] <cradek> mozmck: cooking too?
[15:15:05] <tandoori> WalterN: I like your way of thinking :-D
[15:15:39] <mozmck> cradek: when we had a power outage for over a week - yes! Worked fine, but would be better with a different woodstove.
[15:15:48] <WalterN> I need to buy/build a new wood heating stove too
[15:16:20] <cradek> ah so usually electricity
[15:16:28] <mozmck> I've thought about solar panels to run lights and smaller stuff. Problem with solar is it takes something like 20 years to break even on investment over paying the power company.
[15:16:28] <tandoori> yeah i am using stove and radiator method for heating. With fireplaces for aesthetic and light use
[15:16:36] <WalterN> heh
[15:16:48] <mozmck> cradek: yes, I don't have gas - would have to be propane if I did.
[15:16:49] <tandoori> mozmck: im not worried about that, because you would be paying for energy somehow anyway, right?
[15:17:03] <tandoori> why is it so important to 'break even' on an investment like that?
[15:17:07] <WalterN> I've always thought having a medium sized steam engine in the middle of the house would be awesome
[15:17:13] <cradek> mozmck: at my previous place we heated and cooked with propane - it was really expensive and I'm happy to be on city NG now.
[15:17:24] <tandoori> i mean, sure I could sell surplus power to the local energy company, but still
[15:17:27] <WalterN> for both heat and electricity, as well as something kinda awesome to 'showcase'
[15:17:40] <mozmck> tandoori: if you are rich it's no problem. I can't afford 20 years of power bills up front!
[15:17:50] <cradek> true -- it's not necessary to buy the cheapest power available, just like it's not necessary to buy the cheapest food available
[15:18:31] <mozmck> WalterN: that would be neat - I have a small steam engine waiting for me to get time to get it running.
[15:18:31] <tandoori> with the government grants and local rebates, this supply charge up front is coming out to about 10-15k
[15:18:33] <cradek> I know people [ahem] who buy the cheapest food available, and would scoff at paying more for clean electricity, but put premium gas in their cars
[15:18:48] <mozmck> small = about 4 ft tall
[15:18:58] <tandoori> you have no idea how many rebates I am getting for building such an energy efficient home
[15:19:09] * WalterN rolls eyes
[15:19:22] <mozmck> tandoori: yes I do - I'm helping pay for it with my taxes.
[15:19:25] <WalterN> so you get taxed and some fraction of that tax money gets back to you
[15:19:39] <tandoori> from local, state and federal.
[15:19:50] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZuyTvE4nX8
[15:19:56] <PetefromTn> Love this idea...
[15:19:57] <WalterN> because of subsidized stuff centered around 'energy efficiency'
[15:21:02] <tandoori> why so upset? if you were having a home built, wouldn't you take advantage of some of the energy efficiency credits? even if it were just installing the windows or maybe an HE washer/drier?
[15:21:15] <tandoori> thats why they are there, so more people would do it
[15:21:56] <WalterN> I might, but that does not mean I would like it
[15:22:02] <mozmck> didn't say I was so upset - just thinking of moving to china so I don't have to keep any of my money.
[15:22:03] * tandoori chuckles
[15:22:09] <WalterN> in the end it just means more taxes
[15:22:14] <tandoori> you just want to be upset, don't you? :-P
[15:24:04] <tandoori> i remember seeing a router, some fireball that was also told it was crap, do you still think it is crap?
[15:24:26] <WalterN> depends?
[15:25:00] <WalterN> I was looking at an ooold manual lathe at a wood mill local to me
[15:25:18] <WalterN> they are getting rid of it for the scrap price of steel
[15:25:22] <tandoori> oh and don't talk to me about taxes. the taxes for 5 acres is going to be a killer. more than five of you lot put together, i imagine :-P
[15:25:27] <tandoori> WalterN: let me find the link
[15:25:41] <WalterN> tandoori: what country are you living in?
[15:26:00] <tandoori> WalterN:
http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_Comet_cnc_router/
[15:26:07] <tandoori> i think thats it. there is also a v90 version
[15:26:28] <tandoori> WalterN: probably in the US, but I may live in canada. We are still looking at land prices.
[15:28:13] <tandoori> ive dreamed of living in Scandinavia, but everything is expensive in those countries.
[15:28:33] <WalterN> thats not a bad one, but you will probably want to replace the spindle with something more sane for what you want to do
[15:29:05] <tandoori> is that a bad spindle?
[15:29:10] <WalterN> look at it
[15:29:21] <WalterN> it looks like a common handheld tool
[15:29:55] * tandoori chuckles
[15:30:07] <WalterN> which is not going to be very accurate... will have a lot of vibration/chatter esp. with smaller tools
[15:30:44] <tandoori> but i thought i saw some examples of pcb routing
[15:30:46] <tandoori> hmm
[15:31:35] <mozmck> I think some of the handheld routers are pretty good. They have to be or they could not run long at 30000 rpm.
[15:32:01] <WalterN> enh
[15:32:17] <mozmck> I use a hitachi a little larger than that with an endmill to route wood, and it does quite well and is very smooth.
[15:32:28] <WalterN> not something I would trust with making PCB's
[15:32:50] <mozmck> We have done that with a worse spindle than that for sure.
[15:34:25] <WalterN> at the moment I'm busy making copper electrical connectors for the oil fields
[15:34:35] <WalterN> :3
[15:34:47] <WalterN> using 1.5" barstock
[15:34:57] <tandoori> http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/
[15:35:06] <tandoori> i actually wanted that :-P
[15:35:25] <tandoori> i imagine youre going to say thats only good for soft woods like pine
[15:37:14] * tandoori braces for the backlash
[15:38:40] <WalterN> depends on if they are using an acme thread or ballscrew
[15:40:12] <WalterN> probably acme for that price
[15:40:39] <tandoori> hmm good question
[15:43:36] <WalterN> I should take a picture of some of this material
[15:43:40] <WalterN> erm
[15:43:48] <WalterN> the copper connectors I'm making
[15:44:09] <tandoori> id love to see
[15:58:43] <Jymmm> Has anyone used/seen a "quick boot"?
http://tinyurl.com/qckboot
[16:00:53] <cradek> that could be a temporary fix to get you home to your real mechanic
[16:03:27] <Jymmm> cradek: I dont think it's a temporary fix
[16:04:08] <cradek> I'm saying it probably should be if you like your CV joint
[16:04:19] <cradek> those things are picky about being kept clean
[16:06:07] <Jymmm> cradek: It looks like it's slightly oversize so it fits over the existing torn boot, then BOLTS together a the split
[16:06:40] <Jymmm> cradek: Might actually be better, as it acts like a sleeve to the existing boot.
[16:08:30] <cradek> wheels turn so far, and those boots have to be so flexible, I'd think having two layers it would just get chewed up.
[16:08:47] <cradek> some time turn your wheels all the way and then look at the boots and you'll see what I mean
[16:08:59] <_DJ_> gn8
[16:09:29] <Jymmm> cradek: Yeah, I know what you mean, but how often to you leave your car turned?
[16:09:50] <Jymmm> so it's not stretching constantly to it's limits
[16:11:17] <cradek> it's not leaving that what that would worry me, it's actually doing things like turning corners or U-turning
[16:12:13] <cradek> anyway I have no direct experience with them, but they look like a bad idea to me
[16:12:16] <Jymmm> Well, it beats replacing the axe at this point. It's $7 and if it
[16:12:52] <Jymmm> keeps the grease in/dirt out, I can't see anything bad at this point
[16:12:56] <cradek> is your CV dead yet? is it clicking?
[16:13:06] <Jymmm> I just bought the car
[16:13:21] <cradek> they don't have to replace the axle, but they DO pull it to replace the boot the right way
[16:13:27] <Jymmm> never heard any clicking, was just checking the brakes
[16:13:43] <Jymmm> It's cheaper to replce the axle than jsut the boot these days
[16:14:01] <cradek> huh
[16:14:04] <cradek> shows what I know
[16:14:36] <Jymmm> Well, by the time you do all the labor involved, just replace the whole thing, boots, bearings, etc
[16:15:04] <cradek> really replace the whole axle and CV joint? I figured they were expensive.
[16:15:04] <Jymmm> cradek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S-ofMoWsr0
[16:15:27] <CaptHindsight> it's a temporary fix until you can swap the axle, as soon as the boot tears you start collecting abrasive material in the bearings
[16:16:21] <Jymmm> cradek: $60 complete.
[16:16:31] <CaptHindsight> there's more labor in rebuilding the cv joint than just swapping out the whole axle
[16:16:35] <Jymmm> boots $10/ea
[16:17:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: have you used one? Looks semi-more perm than jsut "temporary"
[16:17:33] <CaptHindsight> the biggest pain sometimes is getting the old axle out due to corrosion
[16:17:54] <Jymmm> Axle removal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jydxpsh13WQ
[16:18:23] <Jymmm> Axle rebuild
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S-ofMoWsr0
[16:19:13] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: if the old boot tore while inside a garage and you replaced the boot immediately I'd say it should work, but the main problem is dust.dirt, sand etc that gets into the torn boot before you realize that it's torn
[16:19:31] <CaptHindsight> now you've been driving with abrasives in the joint
[16:20:46] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I do understnad that. It's a 1/2" rip, looks liek something on the road bounced up and nicked it. It's spit some grease out, but the cut is "closed" for the most part, so I think I'm safe from dirt, just have to replace the missing grease and seal.
[16:21:31] <Jymmm> I'll look inside for sure, but I'm not looking forware to boot/axle replacement
[16:21:38] <CaptHindsight> they generally don't die catastrophically
[16:21:59] <CaptHindsight> you'll just start noticing noise or clicking when in a tight turn
[16:22:04] <Jymmm> Yeah, so I think I caught it early enough that as long as I replace the rease and seal the hole I'll be good
[16:23:29] <CaptHindsight> I've driven with torn boots for thousands of miles
[16:24:01] <CaptHindsight> winter kills them faster with all the snow and road salt in the midwest
[16:24:36] <Jymmm> Yeah, just need to seal the nick
[16:26:56] <andypugh> Reading back: A router is meant for routing wood. Why would you expect it to work any worse just because it is being guided accurately by a machine rather than inaccuarately by a human?
[16:28:23] <andypugh> JT_Shop: You might like this:
http://paraffinalia.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/why-i-ride/
[16:33:45] <Jymmm> http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=15472
[16:36:21] <CaptHindsight> a little juicy
[16:37:12] <cradek> Jymmm: wow you're right, $130 for one full axle for my car, but I'd have to transfer the abs sensor ring, however that works
[16:37:25] <Jymmm> http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Speedi-Boot-Quick-Boot-CV/1988-Honda-Civic/_/N-ii15uZ6o205?itemIdentifier=764_165092_3550_
[16:38:02] <cradek> that's interesting to know
[16:38:09] <Jymmm> which?
[16:38:10] <cradek> pulling it is about the same labor though, I suppose
[16:38:12] <CaptHindsight> the ABS ring just slips on and off, sometimes there is a snap ring that you have to battle with
[16:38:53] <cradek> I don't recall what I paid for boot replacement
[16:39:02] <Jymmm> It's such a small nick, I think it's doable, which I could find reviews of it though.
[16:39:09] <Jymmm> the QuICK BOOT that is
[16:39:34] <cradek> maybe nobody will review it because they feel like a sucker for being out the $7 :-)
[16:40:02] <Jymmm> I'd waste $7 just to find out
[16:41:12] <cradek> yeah
[16:41:14] <CaptHindsight> http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RedamCTIbEoB/ABS-Ring.jpg ABS ring
[16:41:22] <cradek> then make a video and you'll be internet-famous
[16:41:55] <cradek> heh mine looks like exactly none of those - yay vw
[16:42:11] <cradek> mine is more like an encoder disc
[16:42:32] <cradek> I only know this because I just replaced the sensor a couple weeks ago
[16:44:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.globalsoftware-inc.com/coolerman/fj40/Page14BImages/P1220008.JPG birfields are a lot more work to replace
[16:44:38] <cradek> haha wow look at that price (I paid $65)
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MPI0/2VSS76/01313.oap
[16:46:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You're right, it's a temp fix. A friend is a mechanic at honda and asked around about them. But, beats an open nick
[16:48:46] <andypugh> cradek: Yikes! I think OEM Ford ones are nearer £30.
[16:49:49] <cradek> andypugh: heh I traded in a ford to buy the vw and have not regretted it for one second.
[16:49:50] <CaptHindsight> I still do all my own work on them that's how I get >500K out of them before the body falls off
[16:50:37] <andypugh> US Fords don't seem as nice as the German ones.
[16:51:56] <CaptHindsight> they are a lot nicer than they used to be
[16:53:05] <CaptHindsight> we used to joke years ago, FORD = Fix Or Repair Daily
[16:54:32] <CaptHindsight> but anything made in the US in the 70's-80's was pretty bad
[16:57:59] <CaptHindsight> how soft can they make steel? I swear some of the steering knuckles would strip out like they were made of aluminum
[16:59:13] <CaptHindsight> helicoil was a must for caliper mounting
[17:04:42] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: was the Ford 9" differential just a US thing? It was probably the most popular and strong rear ends to use for drag racing.
[17:06:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm
[17:32:55] <somenewguy> am I on?
[17:33:29] <alex_joni> nope
[17:33:40] <somenewguy> dang
[17:33:48] <somenewguy> well, let me know when you can see what I am typing
[17:33:54] <alex_joni> :)
[17:34:20] <somenewguy> seen? ichgucklive
[17:34:41] <somenewguy> man I'll never get the syntax right on that
[17:37:11] <somenewguy> anyone have a macro/wizard for generating gcode to face a part in a non-Z axis?
[17:37:23] <somenewguy> the existing one only does it in the XY plane
[17:49:42] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/274570 how do you grind your bits for your fly cutter?
[18:03:16] <andypugh> somenewguy: I don't understand the question...
[18:05:54] <somenewguy> AH
[18:05:58] <somenewguy> didn't mean to yell
[18:06:15] <somenewguy> one of the simple g-code generators out there is to face a part using a mill
[18:06:37] <somenewguy> but it only does it in the XY plane, I was wondering if anyone had a similar tool that did any plane
[18:07:22] <somenewguy> I am writing a subroutine to do it, but it is such a common task I assume it already exists and whatever someone else made is almost deffinatly better than mine
[18:14:20] <andypugh> I tend to use the lathe for facing stuff. :-)
[18:14:40] <andypugh> But then, I even use my mill as a lathe sometimes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwoD2vZUl0&feature=share&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[18:14:58] <andypugh> (Longer version of the video from yesterday, with the finished pulley in action)
[18:20:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7sji1zXVf0 Using lathe tools with flycutter
[18:21:34] <andypugh> He needs a proper mill :-)
[18:27:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMNkPCtkM80 MVP Fly Cutter
[18:41:02] <andypugh> I have seen the MVP flycutter before, it does have a number of rather good extra features. Like a groove so it doesn't escape if it comes loose.
[18:43:11] <Tom_itx> how's the pulleys coming along?
[18:43:35] <Tom_itx> i'm breaking out the soldering iron this evening
[18:43:57] <andypugh> Done.
http://youtu.be/0rwoD2vZUl0
[18:44:21] <Tom_itx> cool
[18:45:07] <andypugh> It's a prety big hunk of iron.
[18:45:16] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, on a machine like that i'd be inclined to use a shell mill
[18:45:34] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what's it weigh?
[18:46:05] <andypugh> I am not sure. 30lbs? (15kg)
[18:46:21] <Tom_itx> sounds about right
[18:46:24] <andypugh> You need to be reasonably close to it to pick it up.
[18:46:44] <Tom_itx> watch your toes
[18:47:53] <andypugh> It's mounted on the motor now. Together they are pretty unwieldy. The motor is an 8-pole iron frame one, with a brake.
[18:48:49] <Tom_itx> what did you use to add the txt to the video?
[18:49:29] <andypugh> iMovie
[18:51:12] <Tom_itx> fudge. that's for apple
[18:52:07] <andypugh> I think you can add captions after poosting the video on Youtube. (the CC icon)
[19:31:47] <MacGalempsy> andypugh- hows it going?
[19:32:26] <andypugh> It is going very late :-)
[19:33:12] <MacGalempsy> hey got a question for you. i got the lenovo m57 you thought might work, but the pci mesa card wont allow the machine to boot.
[19:33:22] <MacGalempsy> have you come across this problem before?
[19:34:15] <andypugh> Maybe
[19:34:40] <andypugh> I have found right-angle riser cards that won't let the machine boot.
[19:34:51] <MacGalempsy> not using that
[19:35:14] <MacGalempsy> the pci card worked in my dell workstation
[19:37:12] <andypugh> I am not the chap you want on this one, you want PCW or pcw_home
[19:38:10] <MacGalempsy> the only thing I have come across is that ibm had crippled this machine to only work with with select pcie cards, so maybe they did that here too.
[19:42:00] <andypugh> Seems unlikely.
[19:42:23] <andypugh> There may be BIOS tweaks you could try, though I have no idea what.
[19:43:00] <andypugh> Is there anything interesting in dmesg?
[19:43:17] <andypugh> (I suspect there might not be if it won't even boot)
[19:43:52] <cradek> what do you mean by won't allow the machine to boot? what do you see?
[19:43:56] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: the one in the MVP video?
[19:47:07] <Tom_itx> yeah, but that does give a nice finisy
[19:47:10] <Tom_itx> finish*
[19:47:40] <CaptHindsight> I think those MVP cutters are ~$300
[19:48:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR-vQ2sCBrE I don't think I'd use my bridgeport for this
[19:50:24] <Tom_itx> why not?
[19:51:16] <Tom_itx> that looks home made
[20:06:22] <Meduza> Hi everyone, I'll am trying to set up a cnc mill with a mini-itx card and a cnc4pc c10 breakout board, but I have the problem that I get no output signals at all
[20:08:11] <Meduza> I have a logic analyzer hooked up to the output of the c10 card on the step/dir pins, but neither running the axes in axis or testing to toggle the pins with ptest.hal
[20:08:30] <Meduza> Gives any output
[20:08:42] <Meduza> Inputs works perfectly
[20:08:58] <Tom_itx> do you have a driver loaded for it in the config?
[20:09:11] <Tom_itx> i'm not familiar with that card
[20:09:16] <Tom_itx> i use mesa
[20:10:21] <Meduza> It is just a generic buffered breakout for parport
[20:10:21] <Meduza> So only parport drivers loaded
[20:10:48] <Meduza> Standard stepconf install
[20:10:48] <Meduza> Setup*
[20:15:35] <Valen> theres nothing like a charge pump or anything it needs?
[20:15:42] <Valen> an enable line?
[20:20:01] <jdh> external power
[20:20:37] <Meduza> Dang valen, you nailed it, the enable wire had come loose, it works beautiful now!
[20:33:09] <Valen> lol nice
[20:50:01] <somenewguy> anyone have a second to look at a short piece of gcode for me?
[20:50:15] <somenewguy> tyring to open it in axis locks up axis, so i don't know whre the issue lies
[20:50:29] <somenewguy> or if its just an ld computer giving me trouble...
[20:53:55] <somenewguy> or does anyone know of a different way of verifying my code?
[20:54:59] <micges> somenewguy: try to hit escape few times, should stop gcode loading
[20:57:16] <somenewguy> ok eventually it does stop it loading
[20:57:28] <somenewguy> but as soon as I touch off an axis it starts re-loading and again locks up...
[20:57:42] <somenewguy> I have tried staring at the code really hard, but still can't see my mistake
[20:58:05] <micges> somenewguy: pastebin it
[20:59:50] <somenewguy> http://pastebin.com/L6dnSNvJ
[21:01:11] <micges> somenewguy: you should start using named variables :)
[21:01:15] <micges> somenewguy: still loking
[21:01:39] <somenewguy> I should , but my network is slow and I keep forgetting to write down the syntax
[21:01:58] <somenewguy> for a while I thought you HAD to use numbers, no letters allowed, was a little distraught
[21:04:16] <micges> its simple
[21:04:17] <micges> numbered - #4711
[21:04:18] <micges> named local - #<localvalue>
[21:04:18] <micges> named global - #<_globalvalue>
[21:04:30] <jdh> if it eventually loads, I would assume something just generated too many iterative movements. But, I don't see it.
[21:33:05] <somenewguy> hurrah it opened, man my computer was angry tho after that, took about 10 minutes to reboot
[21:33:23] <somenewguy> had failed to declare a variable, so it most likely evaluated to 0 and looped forever
