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[00:00:12] <xxoxx> yeah. i am familiar with jig bore
[00:00:13] <toastyde1th> some methods will get you more cylindrical, others will position a little better
[00:00:16] <toastyde1th> k
[00:00:25] <xxoxx> ok
[00:00:26] <MacGalempsy_> oh, so right now, I am loading the 10.4 from the ubuntu archives, but that iis overwritten after loading linuxcnc?
[00:01:17] <xxoxx> MacGalempsy, i just boot off the ISO disk
[00:01:29] <xxoxx> fresh install and all
[00:01:44] <xxoxx> dedicated computer for each machine
[00:01:44] <MacGalempsy_> ok. I am new to linux. this is my first hour of using it
[00:01:57] <xxoxx> ok
[00:01:59] <MacGalempsy_> the computer showed up with it preinstalled
[00:02:21] <MacGalempsy_> so now I am downloading the linuxcnc package and will burn the iso to disk
[00:03:42] <xxoxx> anybody played around with arduino for motion control ?
[00:04:00] <MacGalempsy_> xxoxx: I use arduino on my 3d printer
[00:04:21] <MacGalempsy_> but the firmware calibration is kind of a pita
[00:07:15] <MacGalempsy_> a good stepper firmware is marlin, it can be found on github
[00:16:01] <xxoxx> yeah
[00:16:42] <xxoxx> I was looking into GRBL
[00:17:11] <xxoxx> works with g-code
[00:17:36] <archivist> use beaglebone black and linuxcnc
[00:18:20] <archivist> fariuino stuff is cripple wear
[00:25:10] <xxoxx> ok
[00:55:09] <MacGalempsy_> irons
[00:55:33] <MacGalempsy_> oops
[01:02:45] <MacGalempsy_> can someone tell me the difference between the base thread and servo thread in the latency test?
[02:09:35] <Cylly> mornin'
[02:13:08] <MacGalempsy> hello
[02:44:03] <uw> M0iN
[04:28:48] <_DJ_> moin
[04:34:23] <archivist> hmm lump for retrofit 261304731150
[05:27:45] <xxoxx> anbody has done retrofit to a Harbor Freight SIEG machine ?
[05:28:15] <archivist> I do believe many have
[05:29:09] <xxoxx> anbody here had done that ?
[05:29:44] <xxoxx> I got the baby lathe, mini lathe, and the U1 horizontal mill
[05:29:58] <xxoxx> thinking about retrofiting the U1
[05:39:11] <archivist> here are some
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Case_Studies
[05:39:35] <xxoxx> danke schon
[05:39:59] <xxoxx> this is excellent
[06:09:47] <MacGalempsy> guys I am trying to figure out if I will need an additional mesa card because the spindle is ac servo
[07:25:04] <archivist> MacGalempsy, probably not if you can get a 0-10v output to control a vfd(inverter)
[07:26:51] <archivist> also simple to convert pwm to 0-10v
[07:27:04] <MacGalempsy> archivist: thanks. it should definately have a vfd in the cabinet. just wanted to make sure nothing else needed to be ordered
[07:28:02] <archivist> just check your docs for available signals and what the vfd needs, like 0-10v and a direction and an enable
[07:32:32] <MacGalempsy> that may be tought, as there arent any docs
[07:32:58] <archivist> you have it yet?
[07:33:05] <MacGalempsy> it will be here tomorrow
[07:33:56] <MacGalempsy> the little bit of documentation I could scrounge through said it had an ac servo spindle motor
[07:34:00] <MacGalempsy> 2hp
[07:35:08] <archivist> 2 horse should throw chips some distance
[07:35:31] <MacGalempsy> its in a box already
[07:35:50] <archivist> covers get in the way :)
[07:35:52] <MacGalempsy> didnt want any chips getting on my cars
[07:36:10] <archivist> cars can live outdoors
[07:36:28] <MacGalempsy> one of them can, the other gets preferential indoor treatment
[07:37:09] <jdh> if you aren't sleeping with it, it can live outdoors.
[07:37:27] <MacGalempsy> not when it was 200k new
[07:37:39] <archivist> my Southbend lathe helped keep my dads car out :)
[09:10:27] <Tom_itx> if you're afraid to use it you spent to much on int
[09:10:30] <Tom_itx> it*
[10:41:35] <dosas> hi i have a question concerning VFDs or motor controls in general, since my friend and me want to build a mill we are looking for spindles and we found thsi kress
http://www.cnc-plus.de/Fraesmotoren---Zubehoer/Fraesmotoren/Kress-FME-1-1050--5-000-25-000-1-min--Fraesspindel.html?XTCsid=29ba6bda8fbe6841736afc0ae8d43443 the question is can you control these digital
[10:42:20] <dosas> or does anyone know how these are build which kind of motor i read that vfd can only drive three phase motors but this is clearly a single phase motor
[10:42:55] <dosas> the datasheet is non existent
[10:43:10] <Loetmichel> donkey: these have an internal circut with constant rpm
[10:43:20] <Loetmichel> but no external input: so only at the pot in front of iot
[10:43:37] <Loetmichel> ... there are some hacks which controls these pots digital
[10:43:49] <Loetmichel> but these are hacks andm reqwuire soldering
[10:43:49] <archivist> dosas, what are you cutting anyway
[10:43:57] <Loetmichel> dosas
[10:44:04] <dosas> we want to do wood and aluminum
[10:44:38] <Loetmichel> these are series wound-motors
[10:44:50] <dosas> but is it possible to build a low cost VFD for this by regulating the voltage that the spindle gets
[10:45:04] <Loetmichel> theys can becontrolled with a power controller like a vacuum cleaner
[10:45:05] <dosas> do you know the german name
[10:45:38] <Loetmichel> but the kress have electrnics inside and a rotational inductor, so they can deliver constant rpm
[10:45:41] <archivist> series wound is a high speed design, are the bearings up to aluminium work
[10:46:05] <Loetmichel> dosas: reihenschlussmotor
[10:46:09] <dosas> thanks
[10:46:35] <Loetmichel> und man kann die mit einem normalen dimmer für induktive lasten steuern. aber nur wenn das poti auf "vollgas" ist sonst raucht die interne elektronik an
[10:46:39] <Loetmichel> (sorry for german)
[10:46:45] <dosas> Loetmichel: so a series wound motor could be controlled wiht this
http://www.electronica.mk/all_articles/Miscellaneous/2012/Variable_Speed_AC_Motor_U2008B/U2008B.html ?
[10:46:53] <dosas> np
[10:47:12] <dosas> or like you said with a simple dimmer
[10:47:14] <archivist> I cant see one of those coping with flood cooling of the aluminium that would be needed at the speed they run
[10:47:30] <dosas> yes they run too fast
[10:47:34] <dosas> that is the problem
[10:47:48] <Loetmichel> no, the link is for a ac motor, kress have "all power" motors
[10:47:55] <Loetmichel> i.e, ac AND dc
[10:48:23] <Loetmichel> dosas: a dimmer that can cope with inductors
[10:48:38] <dosas> okay
[10:49:10] <dosas> does anyone know a spource where i can buy thesse motors
[10:49:22] <dosas> i have seen diy spindles with brushless motors
[10:49:38] <dosas> but they seem too have not enough power
[10:49:47] <dosas> and need high current
[10:50:02] <archivist> there are the chinese spindles with included vfd
[10:50:26] <Loetmichel> dosas:
http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/191343/
[10:50:43] <Loetmichel> ... but you loose the ability to stabilize the rpm
[10:50:58] <Loetmichel> better way is to change the internal motor electonics
[10:51:45] <dosas> my favorit would be a diy spindle with a suitable motor and drive
[10:51:47] <Loetmichel> why is it so problematic to use the internal regulator?
[10:51:57] <Loetmichel> it can go down as low as 10krpm
[10:51:58] <dosas> because you have to do it by hand
[10:52:05] <Loetmichel> and have full torque there
[10:53:14] <dosas> we are probably going to buy one of the kress spindles
[10:53:34] <dosas> but since i'm new to this i would like to know the possibilities
[10:53:40] <dosas> not the easiest solution
[10:53:52] <Loetmichel> dosas: buy the kress for statrters
[10:54:10] <dosas> so but if i want to add an encoder
[10:54:13] <dosas> the kress sucks
[10:54:24] <dosas> and a three phase motor is way to big
[10:54:25] <Loetmichel> and after a while use the kress to make an approbioate holder for a chinese watercooled spindlle with vfd and order it ;-)
[10:54:51] <dosas> do you have any links
[10:54:53] <Loetmichel> loke i did ;-)
[10:54:55] <archivist> I used a lathe headstock a 1hp 3ph motor a vfd and belt to spindle
[10:54:56] <dosas> what are you guys using
[10:55:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12518
[10:55:33] <Loetmichel> old spindle milling holders for the new...
[10:55:41] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12527
[10:55:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12530
[10:55:54] <Loetmichel> new ;-9
[10:56:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[10:56:27] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG shows the vfd and motor
[10:58:01] <archivist> from the other side so you can see the hobbymat parentage
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0269.JPG
[10:58:58] <dosas> yeah that is a different design
[10:59:33] <archivist> been modded a bit since then
[10:59:41] <dosas> so there is little chance to drive a kress like spindle with diy circuitry and motor?
[11:00:20] <archivist> there is plenty of chance, but is it wise
[11:01:17] <dosas> the problem i'm having at the time si find motors that can be driven by 1 phase and have appropriate power
[11:01:30] <dosas> but they must be out there somewhere kress has them
[11:01:45] <archivist> the vfd converts 240 single to 3ph
[11:01:55] <dosas> if you have the kress there is no room for extension
[11:02:08] <dosas> but then i need a three phase motor
[11:02:24] <archivist> scrap yard
[11:02:40] <dosas> yeah but they are to big for our setup
[11:02:44] <dosas> unless we chane it
[11:02:47] <archivist> or some begging
[11:03:00] <dosas> we have a the motor moving on the z and x axis
[11:03:08] <dosas> not only z like you guys
[11:03:34] <archivist> small screaming series wound motors rely on the speed for cooling too
[11:05:39] <archivist> so if you slow them down too much they lose torque and cooling
[11:09:19] <dosas> so one would have too add cooling
[11:10:06] <archivist> or use something better
[11:10:35] <dosas> so the way to go is 3ph with vfd
[11:10:49] <dosas> the vfd can be controlle dvia modbus then?
[11:13:10] <dosas> the 3ph motor in the china spindle from Loetmichl looks really small, the thing that really bugs me
[11:13:26] <dosas> that i cannot fidn a source to buy these motors online
[11:17:20] <dosas> can anyone of you recommend a vfd
[11:17:52] <jdh> what color do you want?
[11:18:15] <dosas> pink ;) no just kidding color really doesn't amtter
[11:18:33] <dosas> as cheap as possible
[11:19:43] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/k5vhk52
[11:20:30] <dosas> since i'm located in germany shipping might be a bit expensive for these
[11:21:10] <dosas> wow but the prices look great
[11:21:42] <Loetmichel> dosas: as a frequent user of kress in the work enviroment: 1 year of 8hrs a day and the be4arings are done for
[11:21:56] <Loetmichel> have killed at least 5 kress this way
[11:22:06] <jdh> Dig: that looks pretty much like everywhere.
[11:22:27] <dosas> i only want to use it on the weekends ;)
[11:23:16] <Loetmichel> dosas:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-1-5-KW-INVERTER-VFD-1-5KW-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-bf-/370861580526?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item565912a0ee
[11:23:30] <Loetmichel> thats the price of two kress
[11:23:43] <Loetmichel> and you will have something lasting your hobby lifetime ;-)
[11:23:59] <Loetmichel> and its shipped from GB, so no customs/taxes
[11:24:34] <dosas> wow but the company is not british for sure
[11:24:45] <dosas> three times useful time than ordinary spindle moto
[11:27:05] <dosas> what i wanted to ask: if it comes to an emergency stop how do i deal with the current from the spindle
[11:27:35] <Loetmichel> company is chinese for sure
[11:27:59] <Loetmichel> thats what an breaking resistor is for ;-)
[11:28:18] <dosas> but that is not included in the vfd
[11:28:47] <Loetmichel> no, i have used 500W or bigger "baufluter" as resistors
[11:28:52] <Loetmichel> works like a charm ;-)
[11:29:20] <dosas> with or wwithout lamp
[11:30:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.rakuten.de/produkt/vorel-halogenstrahler-aussen-fluter-spot-bau-strahler-500-watt-1042639275.html
[11:30:46] <Loetmichel> the lamp IS the resistor...
[11:30:55] <dosas> lol
[11:31:02] <dosas> that is a cool solution
[11:31:11] <Loetmichel> oh. you meant: only the stick inside or the whole lamp?
[11:31:32] <Loetmichel> i would reccomend the whole lamp, for heat/touching safety
[11:31:37] <dosas> you use the whole lamp right
[11:31:43] <archivist> and the holder
[11:31:48] <dosas> :D
[11:31:51] <dosas> okay
[11:32:05] <dosas> you guys know about any write ups or good documentation on thsi subject
[11:32:28] <Loetmichel> not really
[11:32:51] <Loetmichel> all first hand experience ... i should write a book ;-)
[11:33:05] <dispose> Does anyone have any experiences with TB6560 ?
[11:33:05] <dosas> or a webpage
[11:33:21] <jdh> everyone buys a TB6560 once
[11:33:34] <archivist> then they break them :)
[11:33:46] <archivist> actually I didnt
[11:33:59] <jdh> or they get tired of hearing them squeal
[11:34:26] <dosas> anyone ever made a diy VFD
[11:35:03] <Loetmichel> jdh: i have about 10 in reserve and about 20 in use in some machinery
[11:35:04] <dosas> becuase for me they always seem to be a bit overkill
[11:35:16] <Loetmichel> if you know what you do they are great cheap Drivers
[11:35:17] <archivist> dosas, there is one who did lurk in here who made his own bldc drivers
[11:35:32] <dosas> did he document it
[11:35:41] <Loetmichel> just a little prone to "letz the magic smoke out " when a mishap happens
[11:35:53] <dosas> why not\
[11:35:56] <dispose> What cable should I use from drivers to steppers?
[11:36:01] <dosas> no there is jsut so mcuh in a vfd i do not need
[11:36:07] <dosas> display
[11:36:10] <dosas> pid
[11:37:07] <archivist> dosas,
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[11:37:08] <dosas> i just like to tinker
[11:37:25] <Loetmichel> dispose: something labeled "for energy chain use"
[11:37:26] <dosas> thanks archivist that looks great
[11:37:54] <Loetmichel> ... and shielded if possible
[11:38:00] <archivist> dosas, and also ask andypugh about bldc drivers
[11:38:14] <dosas> mayby i will address the mailing list
[11:38:56] <dosas> this is a control for stepper motors
[11:39:26] <dosas> no sorry
[11:40:10] <dispose> I used FTP and I am getting a lot of interferences. Steppers can stay still.
[11:40:30] <dispose> sorry can't stay still.
[11:46:02] <dispose> Is it allright with TB6560 when steppers does strange noise also when they are mooving?
[11:46:53] <archivist> you can change the frequency of the oscillator to improve noise
[11:47:23] <jdh> or, you can buy better drivers.
[11:48:52] <dispose> What is the good frequency?
[11:49:16] <archivist> one you cannot hear maybe
[11:53:02] <dispose> My first idea was to buy a shielded cable.
[11:55:33] <dispose> I thing whole noise is creating back induction and that makes my inteferences into steppers.
[12:09:14] <archivist> screening helps electrical noise
[12:09:49] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:12:24] <_DJ_> hi live-gucker
[12:12:30] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:24:20] <dispose> My Idea is to buy two shielded cables. For output A and A' is going to be one cable and for output B with B' I am going touse second cable. I hope that this will work... I thought that ferrite cams will solve the problem on FTP what I used but it did't work so well as I expeced.
[12:25:17] <IchGuckLive> dispose: encoder or stepper a a'
[12:26:17] <IchGuckLive> oh i read the lods stepers power cable
[12:26:37] <IchGuckLive> so use oilsheelded cable 0.1mm/A
[12:27:11] <IchGuckLive> on tb6560 you might need to change the PF capacitor on the bottom to get your best performance
[12:27:16] <dispose> stepper driver TB6560
[12:27:29] <IchGuckLive> i got about 15 of this in use
[12:27:37] <IchGuckLive> but i modified all
[12:27:53] <IchGuckLive> dispose: blue or ref board
[12:28:03] <IchGuckLive> red
[12:28:31] <IchGuckLive> dispose: USA or Europ ..Asia
[12:28:49] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: I have 2 "
http://postimg.org/image/j8v440n6v/2e0cf3fc/" what can i do with it?
[12:29:17] <dispose> Europ
[12:29:26] <_DJ_> ktchk, you can give them to me :-D
[12:29:44] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: this the hell of speed on servo
[12:29:49] <ktchk> ok shipping to where....
[12:30:03] <IchGuckLive> dispose: im in Germany Kaiserslautern
[12:30:04] <_DJ_> to germany
[12:30:22] <IchGuckLive> _DJ_: you are the bastard
[12:30:36] <_DJ_> huhm? what? why?
[12:30:56] <_DJ_> okay, ktchk, give them to IchGuckLive...
[12:30:58] <IchGuckLive> as you try to steal the helldrivers
[12:31:24] <IchGuckLive> _DJ_: let him build his first lightspeed mill
[12:31:25] <_DJ_> sorry, didnt know
[12:33:21] <_DJ_> ktchk, where are you from?
[12:33:24] <IchGuckLive> dispose:
http://www.youtube.com/user/magic33de/videos
[12:33:27] <ktchk> HK
[12:33:31] <IchGuckLive> _DJ_: HK
[12:33:42] <_DJ_> hongkong?
[12:33:45] <IchGuckLive> he is the man to know for all good stuff
[12:34:23] <ktchk> The screw is 50mm per turn
[12:35:54] <IchGuckLive> i see
[12:36:01] <IchGuckLive> therfor its a hell of speed
[12:36:19] <IchGuckLive> if you go for 3000rmp
[12:37:05] <ktchk> what for can nor cut in that speed
[12:37:07] <IchGuckLive> then you reatch a 0.025accuracy
[12:37:57] <ktchk> I will put a stepper motor with 5:1 harmonic gear
[12:38:05] <IchGuckLive> i guss on 2500max speed you reatch a 12.5m/min at full tourch
[12:38:30] <IchGuckLive> you told me you go for servo
[12:38:56] <ktchk> too much money put in for speed that i can not use
[12:39:10] <IchGuckLive> ok up to you
[12:39:34] <ktchk> i still have the servo motor
[12:39:58] <IchGuckLive> so 400steps/turn times 5 gives you 2000steps per rev Spindle
[12:40:12] <IchGuckLive> and you are at 0.025mm/step
[12:40:23] <IchGuckLive> speed depends on driver
[12:40:32] <ktchk> 200 step motor
[12:40:43] <IchGuckLive> i gess you can reatch 6m/min and more
[12:41:01] <ktchk> make a cnc lathe?
[12:41:04] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: your stepper will be driven in halfstep mode
[12:41:15] <ktchk> yes
[12:41:25] <IchGuckLive> so its 400 not 200
[12:41:47] <IchGuckLive> if you fees the tourch is good to go 800 you can get 0.0125
[12:41:57] <IchGuckLive> at 4m/min
[12:42:06] <dispose> Which capacitor I should change?
[12:42:40] <IchGuckLive> dispose: on the bottom there is only one on the TB6560 chip
[12:42:47] <IchGuckLive> this is a 1000pf
[12:42:53] <IchGuckLive> change it to 150pf
[12:44:10] <IchGuckLive> http://www.homediystuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/TD6560CNCdriverboardtracks.jpg
[12:44:56] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: the 6560 I drive it with linuxcnc and found if invert the signal it works or other wise not
[12:45:02] <IchGuckLive> dispose: the ones next to the 4th top leg
[12:45:13] <dispose> I made my driver acording to this:
http://www.cuteminds.com/index.php/en/tb6560ahq
[12:45:37] <dispose> Plus I add some proction diodes.
[12:46:37] <IchGuckLive> dispose: the protection diodes in the chip are mutch better then the outside you can pop all 4 diodes
[12:46:50] <dispose> I expect that I should change the 330 pF capacitor which should set the frequency...
[12:47:20] <IchGuckLive> use 150pf
[12:47:35] <IchGuckLive> and if you go diodes use UFD
[12:47:51] <IchGuckLive> i changed one board to UFD5407
[12:47:55] <dispose> will it help with noise?
[12:48:26] <IchGuckLive> noice disapear at 150pf
[12:48:37] <IchGuckLive> no noice at all at the board
[12:49:37] <IchGuckLive> dont forget to realy cool the chip it will stand only seconds if cooling does not work
[12:51:40] <IchGuckLive> dispose: why are you doing it yourself and starting with this "crap"
[12:52:22] <IchGuckLive> dispose: if you are in germany 2 you youdt consider a leadshine that makes you happy
[12:53:09] <IchGuckLive> 48V and up to 5.6A at 8Nm steppers
[12:55:05] <dispose> IchGuckLive: Next time believe me I will better buy the new driver.
[12:55:51] <IchGuckLive> its not to late as it yust turs 50Euros into crap i guess
[12:58:32] <dispose> IchGuckLive: If nothing helps I buy a new driver.
[12:58:57] <IchGuckLive> driver is ok it works 1000times a day as it is soald worldwide
[12:59:48] <IchGuckLive> dispose: what is your spindle tread
[13:03:35] <dispose> IchGuckLive: In one video I saw one man who told about that 50 euros driver that it was bargain of his life. :-)
[13:04:08] <IchGuckLive> the tb6560 ?
[13:05:03] <dispose> IchGuckLive: use metric M8 rod I thing. It's going to be slow. I know...
[13:06:25] <IchGuckLive> why not TR12x3
[13:06:36] <IchGuckLive> or better TR 16x4
[13:06:41] <IchGuckLive> its so cheep
[13:07:01] <dispose> Something cheap on ebay. Perhabs TB6560.. I don't know...
[13:08:20] <IchGuckLive> witch country are you in
[13:09:52] <dispose> In the middle of Europe
[13:11:36] <IchGuckLive> ok so i use this
http://stores.ebay.de/Metallbau-Pietrzak
[13:16:16] <dispose> IchGuckLive: Thanks. My CNC doesn't cost me more that 100 euros whole to be build. Maybe later I invest more money to improve my CNC...
[13:17:38] <IchGuckLive> it will run that way you make it with a big backlash and only a view 100mm/min on M8
[13:22:41] <dispose> All you helped me is that I have to change the capacitor to have higher freqency on TB6560. What else can I do to stop interferences driving my stppers motors mad?
[13:23:29] <archivist> fix grounding and make sure of your pullups from the parallel port
[13:23:43] <archivist> and have you got opto isolators
[13:25:05] <dispose> archivist: No, I don't have them.
[13:26:20] <archivist> look at how break out boards isolate the PC ground from the noisy grounds of the stepper systems
[13:28:20] <dispose> All right, but I dont thing that the problem is on inputs of my drivers.
[13:28:36] <archivist> you should think
[13:29:00] <archivist> also scope the signals to check
[13:29:51] <IchGuckLive> dispose: use 4x0.5mm² cables oilflex
[13:30:05] <IchGuckLive> at 24V
[13:30:19] <IchGuckLive> 12V is not a good voltige 24 Min
[13:30:30] <IchGuckLive> i, off by till tomorrow
[13:30:58] <dispose> I know abut opto insulation. I know that like this I am risking damaging everything from PC to drivers. Maybe latter I will add them...
[13:31:34] <ktchk> did you use stepwise to test the driver?
[13:31:35] <archivist> the isolation also helps with electrical noise
[13:32:12] <archivist> poor levels from the parallel port (pull ups) will also make you more noise prone
[13:32:13] <ktchk> stepconf wizard
[13:34:09] <dispose> I did't test it yet, but believe that problem isn't on inputs.
[13:34:35] <archivist> how can you believe something without testing!
[13:34:44] <archivist> never assume
[13:35:13] <dispose> Give me 5min...
[13:36:24] <archivist> by the way, that is where noise was getting into my stepper drivers
[13:36:38] <archivist> I learned the hard way
[13:37:29] <archivist> I added buffers to drive the optos properly from the parallel port
[13:38:48] <ktchk> use stepconf wizard and try to inverse step signal see if one way ok one way not
[13:41:59] <dispose> Now I tested the drivers when I had disconected whole LPT. When there aren't any ones and ziroes on inputs, motors should be quet i thing. Motors instad to be quiet are a rumbling...
[13:43:39] <archivist> open inputs floating will cause random movement unless pulled high or low
[13:43:50] <dispose> I don't have a scope. That would give me the answer immidiatelly.
[13:44:17] <archivist> noise with open inputs is expected
[13:44:56] <archivist> you need electrically stable levels on the inputs
[13:45:46] <dispose> All right then why nothing change when I connect back LPT and on the inputs are zeroes?
[13:46:17] <archivist> do you have any pullups
[13:46:18] <ktchk> power supply noise
[13:46:39] <archivist> some connections and modes are open collector
[13:46:58] <archivist> you need external pullups to 5v
[13:47:38] <dispose> Bad filtred power supply is also my opinion.
[13:48:15] <archivist> do you understand open collector?
[13:49:35] <dispose> archivist: Yes, open collector I understand.
[13:50:29] <archivist> some pins can be or are open collector on the parallel port, do you have pull ups for those
[13:51:48] <dispose> archivist: Yes, I have pull ups from those.
[13:52:08] <archivist> value?
[13:52:26] <archivist> and to what voltage
[13:54:41] <dispose> archivist? I don't know if I understud you well. On output of LPT are 5V there are open colectors I thing.
[13:55:31] <ktchk> from usb get a 5v there
[13:55:36] <archivist> so is this statement right or not <dispose> archivist: Yes, I have pull ups from those.
[13:56:28] <archivist> the circuit you linked has no pull ups on the input lines
[13:58:38] <dispose> archivist: Thanks for helping me... My inputs on drivers are conected directly into LPT...
[13:59:02] <archivist> so no pullups as I thought
[13:59:46] <archivist> add pull ups to 5v on the inputs to see if that cures it (2-3k ohms )
[14:03:18] <dispose> archivist: You mean to conect from output on LPT 2-3k ohms resistor to +5V?
[14:04:08] <archivist> you can do it near the chips, you can then unplug like you did before and it should be quiet
[14:05:11] <archivist> also if you have the enables commoned you only need one resistor
[14:07:52] <dispose> All right. Thanks, I can try it.
[14:17:30] <dispose> I thing that there is the frequency always going into stepper motors. The frequency in doing ON and OFF I beliewe that this is what makes back induction into the drivers, limits...
[14:21:44] <dispose> and cause the interference.
[15:25:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.definitions.net/definition/back+induction
[15:35:43] <andypugh> I just had a wacky idea/.
[15:36:02] <andypugh> My tools live in a rack. It's a 4x8 array.
[15:36:20] <andypugh> The 7i73 can handle a 4x8 matrix rather nicely.
[15:36:52] <andypugh> I could auto-detect which hole didn't have a tool in, and perform automatic tool offset allocation..
[15:49:17] <PCW> Thats a lot of switches though I guess OPTOs would work
[15:53:15] <andypugh> I was thinking terminals each side of the holes.
[15:53:37] <andypugh> But, of course, that won't work.
[15:53:57] <andypugh> Needs to be NC switches to detect missing tools.
[15:54:49] <PCW> yeah you need open for tools in place
[15:56:01] <PCW> a 7I70 would also do , allow closed for tool in place (and allow 24V signaling)
[16:12:17] <kwallace1> Does anyone have a favorite Weller TC201 tip?
[16:12:44] <andypugh> I almost never change mine, so i guess so.
[16:13:01] <andypugh> Pencil-point 7 I think it is.
[16:15:44] <kwallace1> I'm used to fat tips, but can't use them much any more.
[16:17:04] <kwallace1> ?
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PTF7/PTF7-ND/251736
[16:18:42] <kwallace1> This one is pointy,
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PTS7/PTS7-ND/251740
[16:19:38] <kwallace1> I need to do some surface mount parts.
[16:19:44] <andypugh> The one I have in there says PT1-P on it
[16:20:27] <andypugh> kwallace1:
http://www.amazon.com/Waring-WTO450-Professional-Toaster-Stainless/dp/B006CR6W2A
[16:20:50] <andypugh> (That's what I did the RPi breakouts with)
[16:21:10] <kwallace1> Yeah, I need that too.
[16:21:18] <PCW> I dont actually like pointy tips that much as they are more likely to damage the board/pads/traces
[16:21:22] <andypugh> The GTL2000 was just never going to work with an iron
[16:21:40] <andypugh> It seems to take the heat longer to get down them too.
[16:22:04] <PCW> well I should say I am more likely to do damage with them
[16:22:32] <kwallace1> 700 or 800 degree?
[16:23:16] <kwallace1> What does the lead free solder need?
[16:23:27] <andypugh> I seem to be using number 7
[16:23:47] <andypugh> But then don't look to me for l33t soldering skillz
[16:24:09] <andypugh> So, what the heck is going on here?
http://imagebin.org/273679
[16:24:47] <cradek> hahaha
[16:24:53] <andypugh> The buttons all have different names in the glade editor, but not when loaded into a GUI.
[16:25:05] <cradek> reminds me of
http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/homehomehomehome.png
[16:25:39] <andypugh> Yeah, but at least all you buttons have different names..
[16:26:05] <cradek> jepler's law says: if you find yourself making a grid of 32 buttons you may need to rethink your UI design
[16:26:16] <andypugh> I may change the buttons to describe the tools when things settle down, but the layout matches my tool rack
[16:26:58] <andypugh> So it's one of them skuemorphs.
[16:27:18] <cradek> the things apple people have feels about?
[16:27:31] <andypugh> They have gone right off them now.
[16:27:46] <cradek> you could get a sharpie or a dymo and put numeric labels on the pockets...
[16:28:17] <andypugh> I have that too.
[16:28:52] <Tom_itx> kwallace1, i may have those weller tips
[16:28:55] <andypugh> The whole point is to get away from having to bring up the keyboards and type a number in.
[16:29:09] <cradek> keyboards?
[16:29:27] <andypugh> Or the Toucjy MDI
[16:29:32] <andypugh> Or whateber
[16:29:39] <cradek> but the touchy mdi is a thing of beauty
[16:29:39] <andypugh> I can't be trusted with a keyboard.
[16:29:50] <andypugh> It's good, I like it.
[16:30:31] <Tom_itx> kwallace1, i've got 700F and 800F tips, pencil style for smaller smt stuff and flat tip
[16:30:38] <andypugh> But I don't want to type M6 T22 G43 on it every time I change a tool. Because all that ever changes is the tool number part
[16:30:45] <Tom_itx> 800F mostly for RoHS
[16:31:10] <andypugh> I think I am still using my large reel of poison.
[16:31:51] <andypugh> Anyway, apart from issues of GUI design, any ideas why the buttons all have the same caption (except, strangely, for one of them)
[16:31:56] <cradek> I recently bought a large reel of poison because it actually works to stick things together
[16:32:41] <cradek> sorry, I have no idea
[16:33:35] <Tom_itx> kwallace1, i use PTF7 for some stuff (mostly deslodering) and PTS7 for smt stuff
[16:34:30] <andypugh> Is there a preferred format for GladeVCP panels? Libglade ot GtkBuilder? 2.16? 2.8?
[16:35:00] <kwallace1> Digikey has a lot of the PTF7 and PTS7 in stock, so they must be popular.
[16:35:13] <Tom_itx> they are
[16:35:16] <andypugh> Or they have never sold any...
[16:35:29] <Tom_itx> i'd get 700 and 800F in case you have to desloder some RoHS stuff
[16:35:37] <Tom_itx> it's alot easier with the hotter tip
[16:35:51] <Tom_itx> i've had the same tip for years
[16:36:02] <kwallace1> They aren't that expensive either.
[16:36:20] <Tom_itx> i'd also look for a felt tip pen with flux
[16:36:31] <kwallace1> I've lived with the wrong tips for years.
[16:36:32] <Tom_itx> they don't make the one i have anymore but there are others
[16:36:48] <Tom_itx> i'd get each of those in both temps
[16:36:54] <Tom_itx> then you should be set
[16:37:10] <kwallace1> Cool .... er hot.
[16:37:22] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple PTA7's but haven't used them yet
[16:37:25] <Tom_itx> conical i believe
[16:38:01] <Tom_itx> not much difference in that and the PTF7 though
[16:40:04] <kwallace1> andypugh: I thought GtkBuilder is the prefered, or whatever comes up as the default.
[16:40:42] <kwallace1> Is it common to file the tips?
[16:40:46] <Tom_itx> never
[16:40:50] <Tom_itx> i don't
[16:40:59] <Tom_itx> you will file thru the plating and ruin it
[16:41:14] <Tom_itx> use a wet sponge
[16:41:32] <Tom_itx> i've never had to
[16:41:57] <kwallace1> I seem to recall filing tips back when irons where as big as a finger.
[16:42:17] <andypugh> Probably back before iron plating.
[16:42:20] <Tom_itx> i've gone thru a RS iron in one evening
[16:42:29] <Tom_itx> cheapo iron
[16:42:40] <Tom_itx> my weller has lasted for years
[16:42:49] <Tom_itx> aka Coper Industries
[16:42:52] <Tom_itx> Cooper
[16:42:53] <andypugh> I think you need to be more specific about "RS" here :-)
[16:43:01] <Tom_itx> radio shack
[16:44:01] <kwallace1> I have a nice no name iron with a temperature dial, but can't seem to find tips for it. I got the Weller in a junk pile.
[16:44:12] <andypugh> To me "RS" means "Radio Spares" and they probably get a few percent of my annual income:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/tools/soldering-desoldering-tools/soldering-irons/?searchTerm=weller
[16:44:26] <Tom_itx> this is a WTCPT
[16:44:38] <Tom_itx> cheap by 'good' iron standards
[16:45:08] <andypugh> The TCP irons are a really clever use of material properties.
[16:45:23] <Tom_itx> yep
[16:45:25] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
[16:45:37] <Tom_itx> you can almost see the base of it there
[16:46:24] <cradek> what's the XT keyboard for?
[16:46:44] <cradek> other than holding up the other keyboard...
[16:47:05] <Tom_itx> it's hooked to the pc with the screen in front of the kbd
[16:47:13] <Tom_itx> old OmniKey keyboard
[16:47:18] <Tom_itx> heavy as heck
[16:48:58] <Tom_itx> you can also see the flux pen sitting beside the mouse
[16:51:11] <Tom_itx> i don't care for multi monitor setups, i'd rather have multi pc
[16:51:54] <andypugh> I think I see the problem with the UI (other than the design). It seems that buttons take the label of the associated action, not their own label (!)
[16:53:55] <kwallace1> My oscilloscope has regained some of its function. I had half a drop of Deoxit left and used it on a couple switches. I'm hoping more cleaner will fix it.
[16:55:26] <kwallace1> andypugh: You should be able to get pretty much anything you want with Glade.
[16:56:51] <_DJ_> gn8
[16:58:58] <andypugh> I like the way that Glade has "Dilaogue boxes". Now is that a localisation, or is it like that for everyone?
[16:59:14] <andypugh> (Err. "Dialogue" that is)
[17:01:40] <PCW> localization to the land of bad spellers?
[17:02:11] <t12> pcw: ~400ns/bit
[17:02:14] <t12> == 2.5mbaud?
[17:02:38] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xrp8r0h2edug0gf/uIwK3DqIRB#lh:1-2013-10-13%2023.18.36.jpg
[17:02:39] <kwallace1> I learned what I know of Glade from JT's tutorials and Rogge's work.
[17:06:54] <kwallace1> The Glade UI allows different ways to get the same information, such as having a feature's parameters on part of the main screen, or the same parameters on a floating window.
[17:08:30] <kwallace1> It looks like the Glade that comes with LinuxCNC is a few revs old.
[17:37:58] <andypugh> Well, so far, I am liking Touchy.
[17:38:44] <andypugh> Just need to add a couple of macros for probing, and perhaps a screen of common cycles (like my lathe one) and I will have to start finding things to make :-)
[17:40:45] <Tom_itx> just don't blow your psu right off
[17:49:02] <CaptHindsight> t12: your math looks right
[17:53:23] <andypugh> Tom_itx: The current problem is that the Z axis tends to slip. I have a spring-loaded plunger to immobilise the gear in the knee (I wanted to retain some manual capability) and it seems to not be as reliable as I would like.
[17:53:54] <Tom_itx> ahh yes i recall that discussion
[17:54:51] <Tom_itx> not quite sure of a good solution for that
[17:55:29] <andypugh> I wish I had thought of the solution I am using on the X axis before I assembled it all.
[17:56:02] <andypugh> (replacing a bronze bush with a trantorque bush is _really_ effective)
[17:59:04] <Tom_itx> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=x-raw-image://///5598f8ac4dcf8360dea7f5f32c817cee398882f517727b9586786ffd326ead95&imgrefurl=http://www.fennerdrives.com/catalogs/keyless_bushings.pdf&h=489&w=670&sz=205&tbnid=YIPPTaz4mFWaYM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=123&zoom=1&usg=__36Fxp8nC5aV0dTYqCBcNgyMGRIw=&docid=oA0CO4K4tumXZM&sa=X&ei=E3NcUsubFYqz2QXbk4DABw&ved=0CIgBEPUBMA8
[17:59:07] <Tom_itx> what the heck
[17:59:39] <CaptHindsight> did you use giant url for that link? :)
[17:59:47] <Tom_itx> yuppers
[18:01:02] <andypugh> Err, not quite that sturdy: More like
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/keyless-bushes/7784950/?origin=PSF_428524|alt
[18:01:11] <Tom_itx> they don't tend to gauld the shaftA?
[18:02:08] <andypugh> They probably would if you used them as the bearing, yes.
[18:02:10] <Tom_itx> yeah i was looking at a bunch of those at fennerdrives dot com
[18:02:32] <andypugh> But for occasional re-positioning I dount there is a problem.
[18:02:50] <Tom_itx> yeah i suppose you're not gonna move the knee that much
[18:03:02] <andypugh> They really are very good. Generallt you can shear the shaft before they let go.
[18:03:36] <Tom_itx> adjust the tension with the nut i presume
[18:09:31] <PCW> t12: how many bits in the response data?
[18:13:40] <andypugh> PCW: What do you consider to still need to be fixed on the SSI / Fanuc stuff?
[18:14:48] <PCW> maybe user specification of prescale (and reset ignore data-invalid timer if changed)
[18:15:41] <PCW> Seems to work pretty well other than startup errors
[18:16:28] <andypugh> I thought we decided that users didn't deserve to set prescale :-)
[18:17:20] <andypugh> Though the very slow settling with higher prescales is a bit of an issue.
[18:17:32] <PCW> its a nuisance but it does set the PLL gain
[18:18:23] <PCW> I will have to try on a 7I80 (100 MHZ base clock)
[18:18:57] <andypugh> Is there a way to speed up the settling at a high prescale? I tired meddling with plimit and filter, to no obvious effect.
[18:19:49] <PCW> faster filter time constant and max plimit will help
[18:20:46] <PCW> but you do reduce the lock-in range with higher prescales (in inverse proportion to the prescale value)
[18:21:24] <PCW> I need to have a lousy latency system to try
[18:22:12] <PCW> (the actual DPLL jitter is down in the noise with my 12 usec jitter linuxcnc test rig)
[18:23:32] <PCW> on thing for fast locking is forcing a lock by writing the phase error reg (at 0x7100) instead of reading the sync register (at 0x7600)
[18:25:22] <PCW> maybe if i was a bit smarter this would be done automatically id the phase error was > 10 degrees or so
[18:28:34] <andypugh> Well, when you tell me ehat my opinion is, I will set it up that way.
[18:29:52] <PCW> maybe the force lock would be the biggest help (plus lower initial time constant)
[18:30:36] <PCW> the time constant can always be increased once locked
[18:31:10] <PCW> (by user hal magic)
[18:32:08] <MacGalempsy> hey guys
[18:32:19] <PCW> in case the lowest possible DPLL jitter is required
[18:32:35] <andypugh> Hi MacGalempsy
[18:33:01] <MacGalempsy> andypugh: you get some quality shop time in this weekend?
[18:33:49] <andypugh> Yeah. I got my drawbar actively pushing out the tool, which is a big help. And I now have the right oil eeryhwehre, and an oil-seal on the spindle.
[18:48:14] <PCW> Hmm looks like the Mitsubishi serial encoder protocol could be folded in to the Fanuc interface without too much trouble
[18:49:15] <PCW> only real difference other that baud rate and data bits is that the request is a character not just a pulse
[18:50:50] <PCW> (no doubt the drive can query motor characteristics in on startup via another request char)
[19:35:17] <andypugh> Night all
[22:20:57] <t12> PCW: yeah it certainly can. somehow the driver knows the model of the motor.
[22:21:20] <t12> PCW: I have rs485 interface coming tomorrow, hopefully I can just read it out. I'll try and figure out how many bits also.
[23:40:53] <MacGalempsy> evening all
