#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-10-10

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[01:30:56] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:46:17] <MacGalempsy> morning
[01:47:36] <frallzor> Top of the mornin to ya
[01:50:22] <archivist> its the bottom pre breakfast and coffee :)
[01:51:11] <archivist> Loetmichel, I got around to taking pics of the other little presses http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_07_Presses/
[01:58:00] <frallzor> Ahhh soon my wooden plate is done!
[02:09:45] <_DJ_> moin
[02:19:30] <MacGalempsy> guys, I saw a note that linuxcnc will not work with nvidia drivers. is there another driver source for nvidia cards?
[02:19:54] <archivist> use the generic drivers in that case
[02:20:34] <MacGalempsy> ok. this is my first linux box and there is an older quadro fx card laying around.
[02:30:26] <MacGalempsy> is there even any benefit of running a beefed up video card with linuxcnc?
[02:30:56] <MacGalempsy> if all I am using the computer just the controller
[02:45:31] <archivist> not really, I just use the lowest latency card I can find
[02:50:54] <MacGalempsy> why so much emphasis on low latency?
[02:51:05] <MacGalempsy> i guess I dont understand the concept
[02:51:55] <archivist> it means the trajectory planner starts each cycle at a more regular time slot
[02:52:18] <archivist> and the loops etc (all the real time stuff)
[02:52:38] <MacGalempsy> so basically lower latency leads to faster machining?
[02:53:27] <archivist> better
[02:54:37] <MacGalempsy> so is it a never ending quest for lower latency, or is there a point where it is the best it can get?
[02:56:21] <Loetmichel> archivist: nice!°
[02:56:41] <archivist> you can equate a point in time error with an accuracy is one can to the maths
[02:58:07] <archivist> Loetmichel, you can seet a broken part in one press (first) I took it apart to see why it broke. someone had brazed the adjusting screw, will make a new one
[05:51:58] <archivist> bloody lathe motor...knocks the mains trip out now and again
[05:58:19] <Loetmichel> archivist: hrhr... my co-worker had lent my circular saw at sunday, because the one he had (2kW) hat tripped his 10A breakers all the time... my saw has only 1050W ;.-)
[05:58:38] <Loetmichel> -t+d
[05:58:48] <archivist> its the earth leakage trip that drops out
[05:59:20] <archivist> I was just finishing of the broken press screw !
[05:59:35] <archivist> now done and fitted
[06:00:30] <Loetmichel> hmm, isolation failure tripping the RCD?
[06:00:32] <Loetmichel> bad thing
[06:00:39] <Loetmichel> abd unpredictable , too
[06:00:43] <Loetmichel> and
[06:02:55] <archivist> yes, has been perfect all summer, october, cooler probably damp being in the garage
[06:05:04] <Loetmichel> dismantle the motor, get the stator out, dip it in 2k epoxy and vaccum
[06:05:11] <Loetmichel> ... hope for the best...
[06:05:15] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[06:07:33] <archivist> I dont have access to those types of facilities any more, local transformer company shut
[10:22:14] <JT_Shop> I have 75 slots to do in 3/16" steel do you think it is cost effective to drill them out first?
[10:22:57] <Tom_itx> stack em
[10:23:07] <Tom_itx> how big are the slots?
[10:23:36] <JT_Shop> .26 x .625
[10:23:45] <Tom_itx> i would probably drill a pilot hole
[10:23:46] <JT_Shop> stacking never works for me in a vise
[10:24:06] <JT_Shop> I was thinking of drilling 3 holes
[10:24:18] <Tom_itx> you could stack drill the hole as a first op
[10:24:21] <Tom_itx> then just mill away
[10:24:42] <Tom_itx> would cut op time down a bit
[10:25:09] <JT_Shop> don't know how to hold the parts to stack them, 1" x 1.75" x 0.1875
[10:25:27] <Tom_itx> can you clamp the end?
[10:26:01] <Tom_itx> yeah it always depends on the part
[10:26:16] <Tom_itx> i would predrill though
[10:26:57] <Tom_itx> what size mill cutter?
[10:27:46] <JT_Shop> .25
[10:28:01] <jdh> I'd think about making a holder and running them through twice (drill then mill)
[10:28:09] <jdh> but, I'm a software guy :)
[10:28:09] <syyl> take a 6mm twoflute
[10:28:21] <syyl> ramp down to full depth
[10:28:32] <syyl> take a profile cut to cleanup
[10:28:34] <syyl> done
[10:28:41] <Tom_itx> predrill with a letter F drill and the mill won't miss the hole that way
[10:28:49] <Tom_itx> in case you're off a bit
[10:29:06] <syyl> i would guess 1 to 2 minutes per slot
[10:29:06] <Tom_itx> otherwise drill, mill all at once before reclamping the next part
[10:29:26] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't use a 2 flute on steel
[10:29:32] <Tom_itx> i'd use 3 or 4
[10:29:35] <syyl> i run 2 flute in steel all the time
[10:29:41] <syyl> Oo
[10:29:42] <Tom_itx> we avoided it
[10:29:44] <syyl> even for hard willing
[10:29:46] <syyl> *milling
[10:29:49] <JT_Shop> if I was doing this in the VMC with flood coolant I'd just mill the slots out but I'm trying to keep the heat down
[10:30:17] <Tom_itx> is this manual labor?
[10:30:58] <JT_Shop> on the BP knee mill 3 axis CNC
[10:31:15] <Tom_itx> oh you just don't have flood coolant on it..
[10:31:25] <Tom_itx> even mist would be ok i suspect
[10:31:49] <syyl> airblast works fine if you go for a carbide endmill
[10:32:00] <syyl> i dont see the need to predrill
[10:32:12] <syyl> not in that case
[10:32:26] <Tom_itx> the slot is fairly small, i might agree there
[10:32:40] <Tom_itx> it's harder on the cutter
[10:32:48] <syyl> jep
[10:32:56] <JT_Shop> that's what I'm thinking
[10:33:14] <Tom_itx> do you have room to ramp a decent angle?
[10:33:38] <syyl> [1708:22] <JT_Shop> .26 x .625
[10:33:48] <Tom_itx> i know
[10:33:55] <syyl> a little ;)
[10:34:13] <Tom_itx> well it isn't that deep, i say go for it and see how it does on a couple
[10:34:21] <Tom_itx> you can always add a drill if you need to
[10:34:35] <syyl> maybe it even works if you plunge it straight in
[10:34:35] <Tom_itx> ramp half speed or less
[10:34:40] <syyl> even harder on the tool
[10:34:50] <Tom_itx> yeah let's see how many we can chip
[10:35:11] <syyl> is a bridgeport so flimsy?
[10:35:16] <Tom_itx> try milling tungsten sometime
[10:35:23] <syyl> been there ;)
[10:35:26] <syyl> awfull
[10:36:02] <syyl> only edm and grinding anymore on tungsten for us
[10:36:14] <JT_Shop> if I put too much pressure on Z it move the crappy head up on the knuckle joint
[10:36:28] <syyl> uh Oo
[10:36:34] <Tom_itx> question boils down to which is gonna be quicker on that machine
[10:36:49] <syyl> it has no toolchanger, hasnt it?
[10:37:03] <Tom_itx> ramp and have to back up to clean the ramp or drill and mill
[10:37:33] <JT_Shop> I'm the tool changer
[10:37:34] <Tom_itx> that was why i suggested stack drilling at least
[10:37:38] <archivist> I would use the horizontal mill
[10:37:51] <JT_Shop> it's faster to change parts in the vise
[10:37:52] <syyl> stack up and wire edm ;)
[10:38:01] <syyl> (sorry ;) )
[10:38:11] <Tom_itx> mill one die and stamp em all
[10:38:21] <syyl> :)
[10:38:36] <Tom_itx> i know you got a decent press :)
[10:39:08] <Tom_itx> anyway, i'm off
[10:41:27] <Tom_itx> set up a jig in the drill press to predrill
[10:41:33] <Tom_itx> just make sure it's aligned right
[10:41:37] <syyl> thats a good idea
[10:41:41] <syyl> i like that one
[10:41:42] <Tom_itx> then you can do both at once
[10:42:13] <Tom_itx> and you won't get bored running back and forth :)
[10:43:35] <JT_Shop> easier to use the mill to drill with
[10:44:15] <Tom_itx> it's just one of those 'no money maker' jobs any way you look at it
[10:44:50] <syyl> good job to give somebody else ;)
[10:46:54] <JT_Shop> it's parts for a much larger job
[10:46:56] <archivist> bit like the 4 bits of plastic I had to do, molded and shiny, remove 90 % with no outer marks...., used some wire cutters and a dremel, setup to mill would have taken ages
[10:47:17] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop, i figured it was but it's still a pain
[10:47:25] <JT_Shop> that it is
[10:47:41] <Tom_itx> i think i'd still drill and mill
[10:47:51] <syyl> talking of pain
[10:47:52] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0350.jpg
[10:47:56] <Tom_itx> no need to screw up a cutter for that little part
[10:48:03] <syyl> machining 1000 of these sheet metal lever parts...
[10:48:56] <syyl> "just ad a hole in the lower section"
[10:48:58] <Tom_itx> that would warrant a die
[10:49:15] <syyl> thats what i thought, too
[10:49:22] <_DJ_> hi syyl
[10:49:29] <syyl> but they wanted different hole diameters
[10:49:36] <syyl> and different location
[10:49:38] <syyl> ...
[10:49:54] <syyl> so i went for drilling and milling
[10:50:08] <jdh> how do you align them ?
[10:50:26] <syyl> by the hole and the contour
[10:50:35] <syyl> there is a raised area
[10:50:50] <jdh> on the clamp?
[10:50:56] <syyl> in the plate
[10:51:38] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0350%20-%20Kopie.jpg
[10:51:43] <syyl> i marked it ;)
[10:56:03] <syyl> but recently i get all the good stuff to make :D
[10:56:04] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0176.jpg
[11:02:53] <jdh> nifty
[11:03:49] <jdh> I thought that was another slot in the fixture plate, but I guess the corners are too square to be that.
[11:09:52] <JT_Shop> parts are all holy now
[11:11:54] <jdh> skip the milling and just print the brackets on your handy solves-all-problems 3d printer!
[11:12:16] <syyl_ws_> yes
[11:12:27] <syyl_ws_> and after that you can print new brake discs for your car ;)
[11:12:31] <jdh> yeah
[11:12:43] <syyl_ws_> and a nice cup of coffee
[11:13:02] <syyl_ws_> i am not the biggest fan of the 3d printer hype :D
[11:13:26] <jdh> we got one at work. All the CAD guys were excited about it.
[11:13:38] <jdh> I told them to let me know when they printed somethign useful with it.
[11:14:00] <syyl_ws_> :D
[11:14:09] <syyl_ws_> we tried one to make our prototype parts with
[11:14:13] <jdh> I think they just thought I was being an ass back then, but so far all I have seen has been a few logos and a keychain fob
[11:14:14] <syyl_ws_> crap
[11:14:29] <syyl_ws_> now the prototype parts are back to be milled by me
[11:38:09] * frallzor have a reprap mendel mono on order, 3dprinters are supposed to be cheap and tinkerful =)
[11:38:41] <frallzor> not expensive and change to it = nono =)
[12:05:51] <jthornton> well that was fun
[12:10:09] <jdh> I'm not sure we need to hear about *that*
[12:10:38] <jthornton> finished making the slots in the parts
[12:10:48] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:13:59] <jdh> that was speedy
[12:16:39] <jthornton> the holes helped by removing the bulk of the material and only took a few seconds each to drill
[12:17:46] <jdh> you need a 5kW YAG and a waterjet.
[12:18:07] <IchGuckLive> or simply a 200USD plasma
[12:20:24] <jdh> too slaggy
[12:21:56] <IchGuckLive> and noicy and dirty
[12:22:31] <jthornton> mine is not dirty anymore
[12:23:03] <jthornton> I modified the water table to bring the level very close to the bottom of the part and no more dust everywhere
[12:25:09] <IchGuckLive> i go higher then that i got a EDM like watertable and fload at 1mm below partheight so 2mm into part on 3mm sheet
[12:25:30] <IchGuckLive> EDM like waterheight control
[12:25:51] <IchGuckLive> floats always in and runs off at given height
[12:26:43] <IchGuckLive> ok i had to mod the post to get away at cut end dont get springwell
[12:27:38] <jthornton> yea I move over some material while the tip cools
[12:27:47] <jthornton> or splash city
[12:28:04] <IchGuckLive> if you stay you fload the shop
[12:28:49] <IchGuckLive> at 3.5Bar it blows a 100l per min out of the table
[13:19:21] <andypugh> I think I know wht my spindle oozes grease. It is meant to have an NLGI 3 grease in it. But all you ever see on sale is grade 2.
[13:20:42] <archivist> andypugh, remember all these people with screw/whatever accuracy questions, started a page to help/hinder http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
[13:21:25] <archivist> just playing with phpplot at the moment and real data
[13:22:42] <archivist> squint right and there is a periodic error there on my machine, not enough to worry about but it shows
[13:23:18] <andypugh> I suspect that people care rather less about accuracy than they think they do.
[13:24:03] <archivist> I suspect some have more periodic error due to cheap sh... than they realise
[13:25:33] <archivist> I have a second hand nsk ball screw there and a tenths mitutoyo digital dti to measure it with
[13:27:16] <JT_Shop> mm on the plot?
[13:31:13] <IchGuckLive> plasma dont need accuracy at all !
[13:31:30] <IchGuckLive> cust cut the shape and wellt it together
[13:31:39] <IchGuckLive> 1mm is good to go
[13:31:46] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
[13:32:16] <kengu> off by one again
[13:39:29] <archivist> JT_Shop, its .4" travel total so thou
[13:40:51] <archivist> JT_Shop, I am editing and playing with the page as I go :)
[13:54:06] <archivist> added axes to graphs with units
[13:56:55] <pcw_home> does looke like some .050" periodic error
[13:57:13] <pcw_home> .050" pitch screw?
[13:57:23] <archivist> 2.5 mm iirc
[13:58:57] <archivist> I was just making a sample chart for some of the users that are chasing errors the last few days, I should remount the dti so I can do the full 2 inches of its reach
[14:00:14] <pcw_home> interesting so maybe 2 cycles/rotation?
[14:00:22] <archivist> I didnt put an end bearing mount on the ball screw so could even expect to see some bearing error
[14:02:19] <strop> hi
[14:02:33] <archivist> pcw_home, also considering the second hand nature of the screw, could be wear
[14:03:26] <strop> looking for a nice diy HW project to play around with EMC, any sugestions?
[14:04:44] <cpresser> strop: building a mill, or using one?
[14:04:58] <cpresser> ~s/mill/cnc machine/
[14:05:18] <strop> building one, using will be the second part of the experiment
[14:05:59] <cpresser> budget?
[14:06:20] <archivist> I made a fugly mill by using parts of other machines
[14:07:04] <andypugh> strop: Depending on the sort of project you like, a Plasma Cutter might be cool to have.
[14:07:29] <jdh> or, depending on how much space you have.
[14:07:58] <andypugh> A micro-plasma for cutting watch parts.
[14:08:16] <strop> space is no issue, but i was aiming at something simple that could then build something... bigger or more complex
[14:08:34] <cpresser> or a high-power diode-laser for engraving
[14:08:57] <andypugh> A plasma seems like a good tool for making other things with.
[14:09:08] <strop> plasma cutter sounds nice
[14:09:17] <jdh> Atlas V gantry
[14:09:31] <archivist> a lathe and mill are often required too
[14:09:39] <andypugh> I am thinking of hanging a plasma on an arm off the end of my milling machine. Think in terms of a water-table sat on the floor.
[14:10:54] <strop> do you know any example project i can follow?
[14:11:54] <strop> some years ago the linuxcnc site was full of such examples, but i can't seem to find the now
[14:12:10] <jdh> etch-a-sketch
[14:13:03] <archivist> strop you mean http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Case_Studies
[14:13:44] <andypugh> This looks like a good writeup from that page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine
[14:14:55] <andypugh> I just saw a SCARA plasma cutter on Youtube. Now I want to build one :-)
[14:15:42] <JT_Shop> strop, http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
[14:15:45] <archivist> what about an internal cnc gear shaving machine... (geared axes and some other evil jog needs)
[14:17:08] <andypugh> Hmm, then I could make an epicyclic back-gear for my lathe...
[14:18:39] <strop> i had been through those pages, but some are broken, other are retrofits, so out of scope
[14:19:12] <strop> i do have a few engines lying around, from printers and ricoh machines
[14:19:25] <strop> they are fairly weak
[14:19:48] <archivist> dont dismiss retrofits easily as they can be a better start to a career making stuff
[14:19:58] <strop> but may do the trick
[14:20:26] <archivist> tiny printer motors..are tiny
[14:21:34] <strop> archivist: :D a few years ago, when i was a student i got envited to do an internship on a company doing just that: retrofits, i declined and pursued other paths
[14:22:42] <strop> i almost got my hands on an old myford lathe a couple of years ago, the business went sour, and it slipped off my hand
[14:23:14] <archivist> I live 25miles from where they were made
[14:23:37] <strop> heheehe
[14:23:52] <archivist> but I would prefer industrial iron to a myford
[14:24:14] <archivist> I have used a myford
[14:24:58] <strop> hey, i don't know nothing about this subject, but have allway's been curious. when i mentioned the internship my participation would be from an electrical point of view
[14:25:17] <andypugh> I was born in the same town as Boxford, Denford and Woodhouse & Mitchell lathes.
[14:26:07] <andypugh> But that is quite a small number of local manufacturers for one town in West Yorkshire. Heckmondwike, Cleckheaton and Halifax had hundreds of makers.
[14:27:19] <archivist> Denford/ Boxford were related at one time
[14:31:28] <strop> i fell of the wagon
[14:33:15] <strop> as i was saying, i have been following www.buildyouridea.com , a great website
[15:14:04] <JT_Shop> a guy just emailed me and wants me to design a 6 axis machine for his factory :)
[15:21:40] <andypugh> JT_Shop: Does he also want to pay you?
[15:22:52] <JT_Shop> aye, I set up a machine for him a while back
[15:23:31] <andypugh> Repeat customers are the best sort.
[15:24:09] <JT_Shop> yes, he is on the East coast so sometimes a challenge
[15:27:57] <JT_Shop> anyway pretty neat stuff to work on
[15:28:22] <JT_Shop> better than decorative steel fencing
[15:28:56] <andypugh> I just found out what bearings are in my spindle: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=40501
[15:29:20] <andypugh> Except mine are Timken, solid cage, hand-engraved serial number!
[15:29:33] <JT_Shop> hand fitted?
[15:31:39] <andypugh> I hope never to find out :-)
[15:32:50] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop, did you drill the slots out or drill a pilot hole first?
[15:33:43] <JT_Shop> drilled 3 holes then slotted them
[15:34:12] <Tom_itx> sometimes it's hard to weigh which is more practical
[15:34:41] <Tom_itx> i know on some large hogouts we sometimes did that for quicker machining and less warpage
[15:41:37] <Tom_itx> andypugh, is that like vxb.com in the US?
[15:41:59] <andypugh> Probably :-)
[16:01:25] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop, 6 axis cutting maching or other?
[16:01:46] <JT_Shop> something like that yes for plastic
[16:02:13] <Tom_itx> belt drive?
[16:02:43] <Tom_itx> someone here was looking for a long drive belt
[16:02:47] <Tom_itx> like 12'
[16:07:46] <andypugh> Traction engine enthusiast?
[16:08:15] <Tom_itx> bar feed drive
[16:08:20] <Tom_itx> 12' bar stock
[16:08:26] <Tom_itx> for a saw
[16:09:13] <andypugh> Well, as it is a reciprocating application, you can buy toothed-belt in reels.
[16:09:27] <Tom_itx> that was my suggestion
[16:10:32] <Tom_itx> he was gonna use stepper counts to keep track of length, i'm not quite sure if i agree with that
[16:18:32] <andypugh> 14' seems to be a standard length: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p670539/1700H075+Major+Brand+Synchronous+Toothed+Belt+19.05mm+Wide,+12.7+mm+Pitch,+340+Teeth+Allow+2-3+Days/product_info.html
[16:19:30] <Tom_itx> which would stretch less, double roller chain or belt?
[16:20:11] <andypugh> Define "stretch"
[16:20:23] <Tom_itx> 'wear' stretch
[16:20:29] <andypugh> Belt then.
[16:20:35] <Tom_itx> really?
[16:20:38] <andypugh> But the chain will be less elastic
[16:21:15] <Tom_itx> for a saw application i suppose either would be suitable
[16:28:12] <_DJ_> gn8
[16:41:44] <kengu> what is the ultimaker plywood that is lasercuttable as we have some leftovers from ultimaker and that is pretty easily cutted (6mm) but then some other plywoods we have, same 6mm or even less and we are having troubles getting it to cut
[16:41:48] <kengu> what are the properties of "good cuttable plywood"
[16:41:58] <kengu> +laser
[16:42:38] <mrsun_> does stepper cables need shielding in some way ?
[16:42:46] <mrsun_> from driver to motor
[17:21:24] <micges> mrsun_: imo they should be shielded
[17:22:12] <kengu> hum.. the internet says that interior grade plywood is good and exterior is not good. that is because the glue is different
[18:19:43] <MacGalempsy> evening all
[18:27:44] <andypugh> Hi
[18:28:38] <owhite> is there some irc command to save the dialogue on the channel?
[18:31:55] <andypugh> Your IRC client may be able to save logs.
[18:32:06] <andypugh> And there are a few loggers that log everything
[18:32:14] <andypugh> logger[mah]_:
[18:32:14] <logger[mah]_> andypugh: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-10-10.html
[18:32:33] <owhite> .
[18:33:11] <owhite> sweet. thanks.
[18:36:03] <owhite> andypugh: thanks for your help.
[19:06:28] <JT_Shop> how do you loose a 6' level?
[19:08:23] <Tom_itx> set it on top of a wall and rest a while
[19:11:52] <MacGalempsy> so the mesa 5i25 and 7i77 are on the way. When the machine gets, here, I am hoping that I can unwire and catalog all the connections, then move the connections over to the 7i77. is there anything I should keep in mind when moving the connections?
[19:13:46] <MacGalempsy> is anyone seeing that youtube is down?
[20:04:07] <MacGalempsy> will adding a MPG, wireless touchprobe and touchscreen increase the latency of the computer?
[20:06:17] <Tom_itx> i doubt it, they will use a few cycles of code though
[20:06:29] <Tom_itx> the latency is more to do with the motherboard i believe
[20:12:23] <MacGalempsy> ok. we'll see how the machine that andy suggested works out. just didnt want to screw anything up.
[20:16:14] <Tom_itx> i don't have a wireless touch probe or screen but my MPG works just fine
[20:19:46] <MacGalempsy> ah. tom, I am curious about using a touchprobe in the ATC as a first step before maching begins. does that sound possible?
[20:20:36] <Tom_itx> i'd say anything is possible :)
[20:20:55] <MacGalempsy> heh. how about within the realms of a noob?
[20:21:06] <Tom_itx> add the probe routines to gcode
[20:30:35] <Tom_itx> MacGalempsy, a test i did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGuV86Su430&feature=youtu.be
[20:33:40] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: very cool cant wait to get to start experimenting
[20:33:58] <MacGalempsy> but at the moment the wife calls me to dinner, so bbl
[21:09:19] <WalterN> hmm
[22:49:04] <MacGalempsy> this is strange. my registration email from linuxcnc has not made it to my email address yet
[23:02:14] <Jymmm> the baby burro fell and broke both its back legs… puppy is its protector http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=15346