#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-10-06

[02:04:05] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:42:50] <MacGalempsy> hey there guys
[02:43:16] <MacGalempsy> anyone familiar with the a2z sherline conversion?
[05:25:46] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:35:37] <JT-Kuttawa> Morning
[08:01:14] <zorg> howdee
[08:01:46] <micges> ahoy
[08:02:36] <zorg> I am a emc newbee
[08:03:12] <zorg> I have done the cd install of the latest ubuntu/linuxcnc
[08:04:15] <zorg> I am following the instructions for hal_paraport
[08:04:55] <zorg> It can't find the module...do I have to compile this ?
[08:06:09] <micges> try using stepconf - configuration creator for parport machines
[08:06:13] <micges> should be in menu
[08:09:28] <zorg> so this load automatic from menu ? I don't need to worry about " loadrt " ?
[08:10:34] <micges> for first there is typo -should be hal_parport
[08:11:49] <micges> you trying to make hal file by hand, stepconf will generate ini and hal file according to settings you choose in program
[08:12:47] <zorg> Is stepconf menu somewhere under HAL config ?
[08:13:37] <micges> Programs -> cnc->stepconf
[08:14:13] <zorg> ubuntu menu ...
[08:14:23] <zorg> thanks...
[08:14:59] <zorg> I started from beginning reading docs...it said I had to load the module
[08:16:26] <micges> it's ok, when you will have working config you can read about what's in
[08:16:33] <micges> it
[08:16:43] <micges> what machine do you have?
[08:17:33] <zorg> Im, building proto from scratch
[08:18:04] <zorg> 1st will be a mill for PCBs
[08:18:39] <zorg> small etcher
[08:19:43] <zorg> After that, a wood router I think
[08:19:51] <micges> cool
[08:21:09] <micges> for using lpt to control machine it's super easy in stepconf, just test and choose step frequency and assign lpt pins
[08:21:51] <micges> if you want some analog servo, you need to use some hardware from mesanet, pico systems ,etc
[08:22:22] <zorg> How hard is it to add 2nd and 3rd lpt using a pci pnp board ?
[08:23:01] <zorg> In old isa days we could use jumpers
[08:23:34] <micges> easy, you must simply find coorect i/o address and type it into stepconf
[08:23:55] <zorg> great
[08:24:11] <micges> addresses are showed in 'lspci -v'
[08:26:20] <micges> stepconf supports up to 3 lpt ports
[08:30:53] <Jymmm> zorg: Pssst... Your age is showing again ;)
[08:31:58] * Jymmm hides the 8 bit isa MONOCHROME/Paraport card
[08:36:27] <micges> haha
[08:57:14] <zorg> are you folks setting the parallel port up as ECP or EPP ?
[09:01:27] <micges> epp
[09:03:03] <zorg> why not ECP ? does the DMA mess with RT engine ?
[09:04:27] <mrsun_> EPP is for non-printer peripherals. ECP is for printers and scanners.
[09:04:31] <mrsun_> =)
[09:18:40] <Loetmichel> zorg: why use dma when you need to get any bit to the port to a VERY specific time?
[09:19:00] <Loetmichel> dma is used for burst transfers, not for single bits/bytes
[09:19:53] <Loetmichel> you need as less buffers and stuff in the way between cpu and port as possible
[09:20:12] <Loetmichel> so the timing is the same on every write to that port
[09:20:28] <Loetmichel> else you get jitter at best
[09:22:56] <pcw_home> If the PP is being used for direct step/dir generation DMA has no advantage.
[09:22:57] <pcw_home> Mainly EPP or EPP mode are used in this case because all outputa are
[09:22:58] <pcw_home> push pull in EPP or ECP mode (instead of some being open drain in SPP mode)
[09:23:10] <pcw_home> EPP or ECP
[09:28:27] <pcw_home> For hardware interfaceed to the parallel port (like our low end FPGA cards And Pico System cards)
[09:28:29] <pcw_home> I chose EPP because it has a hardware handshake so is faster than a byte banged interface but its a lot simpler
[09:28:30] <pcw_home> then ECP
[10:25:23] <jasen_> ok. what to use under win to test the 7i80 + sserial?
[10:25:34] <jasen_> oops , sory
[10:26:16] <skunkworks> jasen_: I have had success running the 7i80 with a different pro/100 nic
[10:26:55] <jasen_> i got a old laptop and also made it run
[10:27:19] <jasen_> but now i have to test the sserial under 7i80
[10:27:54] <pcw_home> for non-realtime the 7I80 will work with pretty much anything
[10:28:19] <mrsun_> anyone kow of any good vacuum table design for cnc routers? :)
[10:29:17] <jasen_> vacuum with t slots ot just vacuum
[10:31:08] <jp_mill> So is it possible to make a live CD from an image of my machine?
[10:32:55] <mrsun_> well vacuum and T slots should be nice i guess =)
[10:32:55] <mrsun_> as everyting cant be clamped by vacuum =)
[10:35:42] <jasen_> dimensions of the table?
[10:36:24] <mrsun_> 1200x1200mm work area but table should be a bit bigger i guess =)
[10:40:20] <jasen_> well , to give you an idea look that http://imagebin.org/272931
[10:40:34] <jasen_> it is made from standart extruded profiles
[10:41:21] <jasen_> each part is 150 mm in width
[10:41:29] <mrsun_> standard what? :P
[10:41:36] <mrsun_> never ever in my life ever seen a profile like that =)
[10:41:49] <mrsun_> and in sweden that would say it will cost me about as much as the whole machine :P
[10:43:12] <mrsun_> but looks quite neat =)
[10:43:35] <jasen_> 6 euro /kg
[10:44:18] <jasen_> 2.8kg/kilo
[10:44:41] <mrsun_> ehm ? 2.8kg/kilo ? :)
[10:44:47] <mrsun_> thats some strange kilos :p
[10:44:59] <mrsun_> where do you buy them ?
[10:45:31] <mrsun_> thing is that one would need a sacrificial sheet also on top of those things, as i would not like to cut down into them :P
[10:47:03] <jasen_> on the top we are glueing 10 mm foam pvc
[10:51:40] <Loetmichel> i use PU resin (bi-resin G27) as sacrificial "sheet"
[10:52:00] <Loetmichel> poured "in situ"
[10:52:56] <Loetmichel> because its relative cheap, easy to mill and water resistant... and glues itseld to the plate, no need to handle wit glue
[10:53:09] <Loetmichel> but the machine ahs ti stand absolutely level ;-)
[10:53:14] <Loetmichel> has to
[10:55:56] <Loetmichel> ... my machine is a bit smaller, tough
[10:55:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14028
[10:56:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12614
[10:56:29] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[10:57:01] <jasen_> nice , but no vacuum
[11:02:32] <Loetmichel> ?
[11:02:43] <Loetmichel> ah
[11:02:51] <Loetmichel> no, that i have made differently
[11:03:08] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8211
[11:03:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8214
[11:03:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8217
[11:04:06] <Loetmichel> ... but i have seen that MDF is the better material for a vacuum-sacrificial plate:
[11:04:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJmBF8HzWoc
[11:04:42] <Loetmichel> not waterproof, though
[11:04:45] <jasen_> mdf only id you live in dry place
[11:05:35] <Loetmichel> jasen_: its only 5mm thick
[11:06:02] <jasen_> mdf is never flat
[11:06:03] <Loetmichel> so even if it may be swelling through humidity: you have to level it anyways
[11:06:22] <Loetmichel> but the good part is that it doent have to be drilled
[11:06:54] <Loetmichel> it lets enough air through that the parts are fixed like a vise
[11:07:05] <Loetmichel> +in
[11:07:41] <Loetmichel> seen tha video?
[11:07:47] <Tom_itx> the holes wouldn't need to be that big
[11:07:54] <Tom_itx> cross holes
[11:08:36] <Loetmichel> that is a industrial dust vacuum with about 0,3 bar below athmosphere
[11:09:12] <Loetmichel> and thats enought to press the material on the MDF without covering the open space
[11:09:32] <Loetmichel> without the need to drill ANY holes
[11:09:35] <skunkworks> we use thin mfd also for vaccum beads
[11:09:40] <skunkworks> beds
[11:10:06] <Loetmichel> just lay a single sheet of 5mm mdf on top of the table, switch on the vacuum, level it with a big mill bit, work
[11:10:17] <Tom_itx> does the open space get plugged with cuttings?
[11:10:23] <jasen_> mdf is ok for big flat objects . try to hold aluminiun 20x20x20 cm on mdf vacuum :)
[11:10:30] <Tom_itx> do you filter the vaccuum inlet?
[11:10:38] <Tom_itx> at the pump
[11:10:54] <Loetmichel> if the surface gets to thin/to rought with cuts: just get a new sheet
[11:11:21] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: the vacuum "pump" is a festool CTM44e
[11:11:42] <Loetmichel> ie. a industrial vacuum cleaner with external cooling
[11:12:26] <Loetmichel> jasen_: right, i woudln do that with objects that are higher than wide
[11:13:00] <Loetmichel> that has to fail with any vacuum because of the leverage the part has to be liftet by the mill bit
[11:13:05] <Loetmichel> -t+d
[11:14:18] <Loetmichel> vacuum tables are imho only for sheet material
[11:14:25] <Loetmichel> of any kind
[11:14:27] <Tom_itx> yup
[11:14:39] <Tom_itx> that's why vices were invented
[11:15:25] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[11:15:32] <Loetmichel> my german grammar shows a bit ;)
[11:15:37] <Loetmichel> sorry for that
[11:16:05] <Tom_itx> made sense to me
[11:16:36] <Loetmichel> but back to topic: i was REALLY surprised how well the mdf sacrificial sheet had gripped the workpieces
[11:16:47] <Loetmichel> even with only -0,3 bar
[11:17:20] <Loetmichel> must have something to do with the fibre the mdf is made of
[11:18:02] <Loetmichel> the seem to act as a micro sized "hedgehog" to grip the materials
[11:18:17] <Loetmichel> that
[11:18:42] <Loetmichel> and: no need to drill a fantastiillion of small holes...
[11:21:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/vakuumbohr.avi <- i started drilling with some "phenol paper" and gave u after calculating how long the drilling will be at 600mm*400mm and every 5mm a 0,8mm hole...
[11:21:29] <Loetmichel> up
[11:24:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sainsmart.com/16-channel-12v-relay-module-for-pic-arm-avr-dsp-arduino-msp430-ttl-logic.html the price is pretty low. Anyone know if they are made well enough to last more than a few months?
[11:27:37] <jasen_> if you want to have a real god vacuum grip , in the op of the vacuum hole you must nake another 15-20 mm in diameter deep about 1mm
[11:28:29] <jasen_> sunhold relays
[11:28:40] <jasen_> will work 1-2 months
[11:29:22] <Loetmichel> jasen_: i thepn was to drill 0,8mm holes in 5mm spaced grid
[11:29:51] <Loetmichel> an then to drill 3mm holes on top of that, half the 5mm thinckenss of the plate deep
[11:30:05] <jasen_> 0,8 will have too much resistamce to the air
[11:30:20] <jasen_> nether drill 1,2 mm and 20 mm on the top
[11:30:23] <Loetmichel> so one hase about 50% of the surface for the vacuum to grip, buit only 0,8mm trhroughput on open holes
[11:31:16] <Loetmichel> s/i thepn/ the plan
[11:31:28] <Loetmichel> <- sorts his fingers (again)
[11:31:34] <jasen_> if you will make 20 mm flat 1 mm deep venduse , you will need raster of about 25 mm
[11:32:18] <Loetmichel> but as i said above: the 5mm MDF made that drilling obsolete
[11:32:35] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying to recall who used to make all those IO boards back in the 80's-90's that had ISA and serial for control. They were ~$100-200 ea
[11:32:54] <jasen_> this is in case you wont use mdf , but other plastic
[11:33:10] <Loetmichel> it lets enough air throug to fix the sheets very well, but not enough that the vacuum cleaner cant cope with the volume of the open surface
[11:34:57] <Loetmichel> so its like three birds with one shell: no need for the drilling, just level the surface, no need to cover open areas, and it grips way better begause of the micro fibres (i think)
[11:35:13] <Loetmichel> -g+c
[11:35:45] <Loetmichel> AND its way cheaper than the phenolic paper boards
[11:42:22] <mrsun_> does mdf let air thought it to clamp so no drilling and stuff needed ?
[11:46:53] <mrsun_> but idealy i want a table as a reference surface and not have to scim it every day :P
[11:47:05] <mrsun_> as the skimming would take time also =)
[11:53:56] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: seen the video?
[11:54:22] <mrsun_> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/vakuumbohr.avi that oine ?
[11:54:30] <Loetmichel> no, the other one
[11:54:41] <Loetmichel> [17:48] <Loetmichel> ... but i have seen that MDF is the better material for a vacuum-sacrificial plate:
[11:54:42] <Loetmichel> [17:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJmBF8HzWoc
[11:55:10] <Loetmichel> the inside of the table looks like this:
[11:55:22] <Loetmichel> [17:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8211
[11:55:22] <Loetmichel> [17:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8214
[11:55:22] <Loetmichel> [17:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8217
[11:55:58] <Loetmichel> so you only need 5mm thick MDF to close it and have no "caving in"
[11:56:17] <mrsun_> i have to make a test for taht stuff i think =)
[11:56:26] <mrsun_> make a small vacuum table with a piece of mdf just to try it out =)
[11:56:56] <mrsun_> but what vacuum source to use ?
[11:57:11] <Loetmichel> i have used a Festool CTM 44 E vacuum cleaner
[11:57:45] <Loetmichel> but you can use any vacuum cleaner that DOESENT cool its motor with the vaccum air
[11:58:18] <Loetmichel> or has a bypass valve for that pourpose so the motor gets cooling air even when the vacuum tume is closed entirely
[11:58:57] <mrsun_> mm gonna experiment with this some =) awesome if i can have a table with just sacrificial sheets on realy =)
[11:59:12] <Loetmichel> that was the idea ;-)
[11:59:31] <mrsun_> but i guess as you cut througth it and leave grooves the vacuum will not be so good after a while so then i need to skim it? :)
[11:59:47] <Loetmichel> ... after a while, yes
[12:00:50] <mrsun_> idealy i guess one shouldnt have to cut throught the workpiece tho, leaving like 0.1mm or so of material but in practice it will happend :P
[12:01:17] <Loetmichel> surprisingly, if you cut only a few tenths of a mm into the mdf it will not loose much vacuum
[12:01:32] <Loetmichel> it seems the "fiber" character of the mdf is helping there also
[12:02:54] <mrsun_> but so, i would have a table with holes, that i add the sacrificial sheet on top of.. and that sheet is skimmed on both sides to let vacuum pass throught it then? :)
[12:03:15] <Loetmichel> but its paramount to get a vacuum source that can operate idefinetly when plugged shut
[12:03:50] <Loetmichel> not a good thing to have the vacuum cleaner shutting down mit mid work due to overheat ;-)
[12:04:09] <Loetmichel> i have skimmed it on both sides
[12:04:35] <Loetmichel> but i rahter one side is enough, the mdf seems to have enough pores to get the air through
[12:06:33] <mrsun_> yeah the vacuum sorce, might be able to use the "venturi" effect on my dust collector for that? :)
[12:08:43] <mrsun_> that reminds me, i have to try and glue the dust collector fan together again .. or that one is toast and a new one incomming but this time with a freakin seperator for the big particles, the name escapes me .. tornado ?
[12:32:36] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[13:47:44] <mrsun_> anyone has any sugestions on how to fill text etc of signs i make? if someone wants black fill on the text or something =)
[13:48:22] <Tom_itx> paint it and skin cut the surface
[13:50:39] <mrsun_> true =)
[13:51:24] <mrsun_> was thinking drum sander or something feels like a jointer would be prone to rip pieces out if its intricate work on the piece =)
[13:56:09] <Tom_itx> paint isn't that thick
[13:56:47] <Tom_itx> that or mask it
[13:57:13] <archivist> we used hard sealing wax on brass clock dials, then wet and dry (wet) till the brass is right then silver the brass
[13:58:27] <archivist> awkward process to melt into the engraving
[14:12:07] <ReadError> mrsun_, i heard gel stain
[14:12:10] <ReadError> then sand the surface
[14:12:26] <ReadError> thats what r00tarded did
[14:16:23] <Tom_itx> same idea, just using rocks instead of cutters :)
[14:29:48] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: i use simpe cheap wax crayons
[14:29:56] <Loetmichel> works like a charm
[14:30:15] <mrsun_> how do you use them ?
[14:30:57] <Loetmichel> searching...
[14:31:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/PowerKnoepfe.avi
[14:34:25] <Loetmichel> result: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11570&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:35:50] <mrsun_> oh thats quite neat but in my case its wooden signs i want to be able to just paint the text on in a simple way =)
[14:36:10] <mrsun_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1376979_10151894105803648_1026019175_n.jpg
[14:36:13] <mrsun_> like those =)
[14:37:22] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: thats not so easy because the grain in the wood wil "suck up" any paint
[14:37:37] <mrsun_> mm
[14:37:47] <mrsun_> the birch i guess is easier then the pine
[14:38:30] <Loetmichel> it would have been better to paint the engraving surface with clear laquer and THEN lay out with any wax/paint
[14:39:03] <Loetmichel> spray paint the wood with clear paint
[14:39:14] <Loetmichel> wait 'til througly dry
[14:39:28] <Loetmichel> paint with desired colour
[14:39:32] <Loetmichel> wait 'til througly dry
[14:39:46] <Loetmichel> sand the top face until all paint is gone
[14:39:57] <Loetmichel> would be my way of doing that
[14:42:20] <mrsun_> the oposite is quite easy tho, stain it then route it :P
[14:42:31] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: had a problem with that on beechwood:
[14:42:34] <mrsun_> makes the text pop some but its the wood and coloured text i want =)
[14:42:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11600
[14:43:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11591
[14:43:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11594
[14:43:38] <Loetmichel> especially in the last one sou can see the "bleeding" of the wax/paint
[14:43:59] <mrsun_> mm
[14:44:16] <mrsun_> i guess one could seal it with clearcoat first then paint it then sand it :P
[14:44:25] <mrsun_> to stop the bleeding into the fibres =)
[14:44:27] <mrsun_> fibers
[14:44:35] <mrsun_> ahh that might be what you said :P
[14:44:38] <mrsun_> hehe
[14:45:03] <Loetmichel> yes
[14:45:05] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:46:04] <Loetmichel> btw: my surname and that of my family is "buchholz" (beechwood).... hence the usbdrives in the same wood as a christmas present for my family ;-)
[14:46:45] <mrsun_> =)
[14:47:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11582
[14:47:27] <Loetmichel> wasnt SO easy but worth the work i think ;-)
[14:48:55] <mrsun_> damn you cheap ... doing christmas presents by yourself and not buying them?! :P
[14:49:13] <mrsun_> some people seem to think like that when they get homemade presents =)
[14:49:59] <Loetmichel> not my family
[14:50:11] <mrsun_> =)
[14:50:17] <mrsun_> nah its a nice present =)
[14:50:20] <Loetmichel> we also have the rule that a single present for anyone cant exeed 50 eur
[14:50:58] <Loetmichel> so "cheap" isnt a possibility ;-)
[14:51:12] <Loetmichel> ahem "expensive" isnt.
[14:51:18] <Loetmichel> you know what i mean
[15:30:24] <jp_mill> is it possible to short the step outputs on a 7i76?
[15:31:09] <andypugh> It's always possible. I guess your question is if it is a bad idea?
[15:31:37] <jp_mill> I think i found the answer unfortunately
[15:32:52] <jp_mill> now i have a single axis 7i76. Doh!
[15:33:09] <andypugh> I would actually be susprised if they weren't short-circuit proof.
[15:33:49] <jp_mill> the manual says the 5vp terminals have ptc protection
[15:35:37] <andypugh> pcw_home might know what has gone wrong.
[15:35:40] <jp_mill> but some how i managed to pooch stepgens 0-2
[15:35:57] <jp_mill> actually 0-3
[15:39:48] <andypugh> I found a use for G33 today. If you have a boring head like: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Rwq66WXQfv3Ec7chknvoFNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink then you can set it to auto-indeed and synch the Z to suit to get just the right taper: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZcF1sqzrXp6yq9g3jGgBodMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink to make a tool tightening and measuring station:
[15:39:49] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GAxBYJhlBPaDnebMuVtoBtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[15:42:31] <jp_mill> Pretty Trick!
[15:42:42] <jp_mill> Nice castings
[15:53:03] <skunkworks> andypugh: very neat!~
[16:05:51] * JT_Shop resists clicking on photos :(
[16:28:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:42:35] <Tom_itx> poor JT_Shop
[16:46:30] <andypugh> When I turn off the motors on my mill, the knee drops on to the limit switch.
[16:46:38] <andypugh> This is vaguely annoying.
[16:47:34] <andypugh> I am wondering about putting a die-spring in the bottom of the knee so that the motor can pull the knee down to the switch, but it sits clear when it sinks.
[16:48:16] <andypugh> (adding a brake isn't easy, and a counterbalance is even harder)
[16:48:30] <Tom_itx> does the weight just spin the motors reverse?
[16:48:42] <andypugh> Yes.
[16:48:57] <Tom_itx> not so practial to counterbalance that
[16:49:07] <Tom_itx> the spring may be the best bet
[16:49:58] <Tom_itx> shock mounts under it might work
[16:50:39] <andypugh> I have thought of all sorts of things, like a pneumatic cylinder pushing on the bottom of the leadscrew.
[16:51:14] <andypugh> But there isn't enough room for anything that has the required force levels.
[16:51:24] <Tom_itx> no not on a knee mill
[16:51:30] <andypugh> (not over the whole range of motion, at least).
[16:51:47] <Jp11> Pneumatic cyl works but need large accumulator
[16:52:37] <andypugh> A regulated (relieving) cylinder is the perfect counterweight. But would eat a lot of air.
[16:56:25] <Jp11> If you had a large receiver to supply it you could just charge it to the required air pressure. No regulator needed
[16:56:30] <pcw_home> jp_mill: shorting one step/dir output or two probably wont hurt anything,
[16:57:10] <pcw_home> shorting many for a long time may destroy the driver chip
[16:57:16] <Jp11> Pcw_home: step gens 0-3 seem dead
[16:57:23] <andypugh> Are there individual enables?
[16:57:51] <andypugh> (I have a vague memory that the 7i77 PWMs are grouped)
[16:58:25] <pcw_home> There and no enables on the Step/Dir outputs
[16:58:26] <pcw_home> Did you tie one side of all to GND or VCC or something like that?
[16:59:39] <jp_mill> I swapped the drives today for import leadshine type. I was using differential wiring
[17:00:17] <jp_mill> i thought the clone leadshines took differential in but they do not
[17:01:30] <pcw_home> so probably the side you _did not_ tie to power or ground is still OK
[17:01:51] <jp_mill> i thought that but i still get nothing
[17:03:07] <pcw_home> Thats odd: One octal buffer drives 0..3 + pins and an octal inverting buffer drives the 0..3 - pins
[17:03:31] <pcw_home> not likely to fry both
[17:03:52] <pcw_home> maybe the fried chip is pulling the 5V down
[17:04:13] <jp_mill> the last step gen on the other TB is ok
[17:05:05] <pcw_home> could be that the bad chip is shorting the FPGA pins
[17:05:13] <jp_mill> I thought i would of ended up taking out the PC supply as i am using cable power
[17:07:24] <Tom_itx> you would probably take out the cable before the supply
[17:07:29] <Tom_itx> due to a short
[17:10:26] <jp_mill> whatever happened the whole card works less stepgens 0-3
[17:17:15] <pcw_home> There are PTCs in the 5V power so its hard to hurt cables, but if you permanently
[17:17:16] <pcw_home> short all 8 outputs of an actal buffer, somethings got to give
[17:18:38] <andypugh> Is it worth trying the 7i72 on P2 rather than P3?
[17:18:58] <andypugh> (7i76 I mean)
[17:20:59] <jp_mill> hmm thats a thought! would it be worth it pcw_home?
[17:21:24] <jp_mill> I still get 5V on the +step and +dir outputs
[17:22:17] <andypugh> On the DB25? In that case there is probably no point trying P2.
[17:24:51] <jp_mill> no at the 7i76
[17:24:58] <jp_mill> on tb 2
[17:25:37] <pcw_home> I would disconnect the 7I76 and verify that you have step/dir signals at the DB25
[17:26:03] <andypugh> Step/dir are sourced from the FPGA in the 5i25, so it may be worth checking the signals at the DB25 connector.
[17:30:57] <jp_mill> if i change to the other db25 connector do i just change my hal references of 5i25.0 to 5i25.1?
[17:37:41] <jp_mill> what dictates the use of p2 vs p3 on the 5i25?
[17:38:06] <pcw_home> no but the stepgen numbers / sserial port/encoder would change
[17:38:34] <jp_mill> what would they change to?
[17:39:02] <pcw_home> I dont recommend it though, if the 7I76 is shorting out the FPGA pins you risk damaging the 5I25 the more you play with it
[17:41:08] <jp_mill> So what would be best method to test.
[17:41:16] <jp_mill> via the db25
[17:51:47] <pcw_home> a LED/resistor or Voltmeter
[17:52:56] <pcw_home> I doubt if the 5I25 is affected you probably just fried one of the octal buffers
[17:52:58] <pcw_home> (were the outputs tied to GND or 5V?)
[18:01:08] <jp_mill> 5V
[18:08:05] <pcw_home> Yeah thats probably the worst case
[18:08:19] <Jp11> Ah well guess I'll just get another one.
[18:09:15] <Jp11> Have to blow the dust off the 7i43 for now
[18:09:56] <andypugh> You could split out those wires and connect direct. Though with your record so far....
[18:11:06] <Jp11> Ha good one!! That's what happens when you take things for granted. I did know better.
[18:13:23] <andypugh> So, you have perfectly good step signal out of the DB25 port, and everything else is working.
[18:14:24] <Jp11> Well I don't know if it's good at the db25 yet.
[18:15:04] <Jp11> Where can I find the pinout of the db25?
[18:16:09] <Jp11> firmware pin files?
[18:16:25] <andypugh> just look in dmesg
[18:33:57] <MacGalempsy> evening guys
[18:35:46] <andypugh> Hi
[18:35:57] <pcw_home> 7I76 manual
[18:36:40] <MacGalempsy> well good news. the guy with the benchman xt made a deal with me and it should be here in the next 2 weeks
[18:36:44] <pcw_home> (has DB 25 interface signals)
[18:37:23] <MacGalempsy> now time to start getting the other stuff lined up for the controller conversion...
[18:45:34] <somenewguy> anything exciting in here today?
[18:51:32] <andypugh> I found a way to bore a tapered hole in a casting.
[18:52:04] <andypugh> A small sub-set of the world population would be excited by that.
[18:55:40] <archivist> I use the taper turning attachment on the lathe if I want that :)
[18:57:58] <cradek> andypugh: have you blued it and it matches a tool holder? that's a really cool boring head and a very clever trick.
[18:58:07] <archivist> I hate it when the attachment decides to operate when it is supposed to be sliding on the bed
[19:00:32] <somenewguy> tell lme how to do that on a mill and I will get equally excited
[19:02:10] <archivist> what andypugh has done is on a mill
[19:02:15] <somenewguy> man, if only drivers were easier tofind
[19:02:26] <somenewguy> ok now im more interested
[19:02:58] <somenewguy> I will probably need a bigger mill, but I had been looking at a projectthat needed such skill a while back a ndgot abandoned
[19:04:19] <somenewguy> I think I just finally ressurected the "permanent" CNC pc, and hopefully I can find a working video card driver for it and the latency will go to where it should be
[19:04:52] <somenewguy> otherwise it is back to trying to get Mr. "What is a BIOSagain?"up and running as he is the most powerfull but apparently that rainstorm really had its way with him
[19:05:53] <somenewguy> If a PC has 300,000 max jitter with onboard graphcis, what are theodds of adding a graphics card fixing that?
[19:06:08] <somenewguy> Ineed stepper quality latency, so it needs to go down a lot
[19:13:16] <andypugh> cradek: Funny you should ask that question just as I was away bolting on the casting now that it has been painted, and testing the fit with blue. :-)
[19:13:44] <andypugh> The fit was OK for a holder, maybe not good enough for a height-setter.
[19:14:30] <andypugh> So I spent a few minutes (from the time stamps it can't have been more than 10 mins) with a scraper and now I reckon that the fit is good.
[19:15:48] <cradek> very cool
[19:15:51] <andypugh> somenewguy: I have a Wohlhaupter boring head, which is geared so that the tool moves 0.1mm for every head revolution if you hold the knurled ring and have the feed engaged: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Rwq66WXQfv3Ec7chknvoFNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:16:59] <andypugh> The tool holders have a 7/24 taper. So to machine the taper you can just use G33 Z-35 K[24/70]
[19:17:15] <somenewguy> fancy
[19:19:42] <somenewguy> g33 is a functionality i was unaware of, cool!
[19:20:45] <cradek> I like what happens when we don't guess how people will use things
[19:21:17] <cradek> one might be tempted to say "I can only imagine g33 being useful on a lathe" and then purposefully or unwittingly writing in that limitation
[19:22:04] <andypugh> somenewguy: Unless that 300k latency is SMI then it sounds like a basket-case
[19:25:17] <somenewguy> SMI?
[19:25:38] <somenewguy> it took some hard work to get that number to bounce that high
[19:26:02] <somenewguy> almost froze the machine, dunno how much/if any was dueto the fact it was running off a live cd at thetime?
[19:26:56] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[19:27:25] <andypugh> But be sure that you have a chipset that _might_ be affected first.
[19:27:37] <kwallace> What kind of PC is getting bad latency?
[19:29:23] <archivist> I think if your system is lacking in ram and you have video sharing ram then scrolling an editor window causing swap to be used will give numbers like that too
[19:30:21] <somenewguy> ok I don't think I was getting any spikes
[19:30:26] <jp_mill> pcw_home: so putting a led + resistor between pin 1 and pin 19 would test step-gen 0 correct. i tried a dmm but i get nothing.
[19:30:54] <somenewguy> just fairly high numbers andwas able to get the crazy 300k by having several windows open and moving the FF window around the screen as fast as I could till it ghostedeverywhere
[19:31:22] <somenewguy> its a old p4 w/ a cutrate mobo, although I shoved more ram in it (only has 2 slots wtf)
[19:31:38] <kwallace> I have been getting good numbers form cheap Core 2 Duo PCs with 'idle=poll'. ~5000ns from HP DC7800 DC7900 Dell Opiplex 360.
[19:31:59] <somenewguy> i'll just go forward with the install then, and see what my numbers arethen
[19:32:09] <somenewguy> always been an optomist, and for once I don'tcare about anything on this HDD
[19:32:37] <somenewguy> also my second parallel port just came in, i amgonna make a opto-isolation board for it as my first project
[19:32:45] <kwallace> I haven't found a P4 yet with decent latency.
[19:33:02] <somenewguy> it will either be extra IO for the mill, or go to the home pc and be a logicanalyzer
[19:33:13] <somenewguy> kwallace, really, that isunfortunate
[19:33:30] <somenewguy> I was hoping it would be fine...
[19:33:38] <archivist> I had a good P4
[19:34:05] <somenewguy> do any other old CPUS fit a p4 socket? my newest spare machines are all p4s or older
[19:34:18] <somenewguy> of course I will just trythis one before I jump to buying something
[19:35:54] <archivist> first thing I do is find a better video card for the machine before I condemn it
[19:35:56] <kwallace> I have plenty of other machines that work. Before the Core 2 Duo I got good numbers from K7 something or other. Athlons might be good too. My mill has an Athlon, I can check which one.
[19:37:24] <skunkworks> I have also had good luck with p4's
[19:37:53] <jp_mill> i get good numbers on an athlon x2
[19:40:27] <skunkworks> somenewguy: why did you move from mach
[19:40:57] <somenewguy> my machine likes to spaz, and I want to get away from windows
[19:41:34] <somenewguy> on my current mill pc (a small form factor machine I do not care for) if the CPU pegs, all 3 axis jitter for .24 secondsor so
[19:41:50] <somenewguy> with no register in MACH3, so I assume noise is going out over the parallel port
[19:41:58] <somenewguy> I blame windows combined with the age of the machine
[19:42:09] <somenewguy> in my experience, linux fixes all age-related computer issues
[19:42:31] <andypugh> Be prepared to reconsider your experience..
[19:43:08] <andypugh> There is a chance that whatever was messing up Mach is low-level enough to also mess up LinuxCNC
[19:43:20] <somenewguy> however since it is a fairly small and compact dell, there is limitedroom foradditinal pci cards, so i figured I would give my two best dinosaurs a chance first
[19:43:54] <somenewguy> or I wouldinstall linuxCNC on the dell first, if I didn't want ot make sure I had at least 1 functional machine
[19:44:02] <somenewguy> and i could dual boot,but I don't want totake the risk
[19:44:07] <somenewguy> answer your question skunkworks ?
[19:44:08] <andypugh> I don't see any reason for a CNC controller board to have a PC case. It is best considered just another PCB (and one of the cheaper ones, too)
[19:44:33] <somenewguy> andypugh: since the jitter coincides w/ the cpu pegging, I suspect it is a program somewhere, or a good olevirus
[19:44:45] <somenewguy> I inherited the machine as-is when i bought the mill from the Po
[19:45:25] <somenewguy> andy you just gave me a great idea
[19:46:11] <andypugh> This looks like a good candidate, Atom CPU, takes 12V power directly: http://linitx.com/product/jetway-jnf96u525lf-18ghz-dual-core-atom-miniitx-mainboard-12v-dc-power-input/13531
[19:46:21] <somenewguy> IF I have to toss the dell in the end, I will stuff all the CNC stuff into my absurdly oversized tower. a mini-atx baord would leave oodles of room for the g540 and psu
[19:47:05] <somenewguy> why so expensive?
[19:47:32] <andypugh> It's not that bad when you consider that CPU + PSU are included.
[19:47:42] <somenewguy> I would assume a random mobo/processer deal from microcenter should do what I need, and those come down all the way to 40ish bucks
[19:47:46] <somenewguy> im in the US btw
[19:47:49] <somenewguy> oh I missed that
[19:48:23] <somenewguy> the atoms seem popular so I do like copying what works
[19:48:45] <somenewguy> although I also have a raspi lying around and hear those work quite well, but never looked into the details of how, but honestly I want to give the hardaare I laready have lying around a chance first
[19:48:46] <andypugh> And the Indel D525MW was everybody's favourite cheap, fanless, low-latency controller board while it was in production, and that Jetway seems to be the same CPU.
[19:49:25] <andypugh> No, the RaspPi works _barely_ and there are still question marks about the DMA step generator.
[19:49:39] <andypugh> Beagle is possibly a better option.
[19:50:00] <somenewguy> oh ok
[19:50:14] <somenewguy> beagle is, I wish I had realized what it was years ago
[19:50:25] <somenewguy> been playiing w/ arduinos for a while, which lead to me getting a 3d printer a year ago
[19:50:48] <somenewguy> had I known, I would have overkilled the hell out of it and just thrown a BBB if possible onto my 3d printer
[19:51:18] <somenewguy> so the atom you linked to just needs ram and a 12v input to run?
[19:51:27] <somenewguy> it works w/ the onboard graphics? I bookmarked it just in case
[19:52:30] <somenewguy> my switching PSU is 24 v, but I have a step down board or six lying around, although I would probably just shove a spare ATX supply in there so I have a convenient 5v source
[19:53:07] <andypugh> somenewguy: I actually know nothing about that board. It just looks promising on paper.
[19:53:16] <andypugh> And you would need some form of HDD too.
[19:53:19] <somenewguy> skunkworks: I forgot to say, I have learend the value of "single stream" for certain things, and since the ONLY time i run windows is to use CAD packages, I would loveto move to linux here
[19:53:30] <somenewguy> ah yes, hdd obviously
[19:53:47] <somenewguy> IF I need a new pc I will look on the forum/wiki for tips
[19:54:12] <andypugh> I have had good results with these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KingSpec-8GB-SATA-DOM-ML-Computre-Laptop-Solide-State-Flash-Network-SSD-/231055699023?pt=US_Solid_State_Drives&hash=item35cbfe2c4f
[19:54:22] <somenewguy> I really dont wannaa, I just spent alot of my play money on some new hdds and car parts
[19:54:23] <andypugh> 8GB is plenty for a machine controller.
[19:55:18] <andypugh> Right, it seems to have suddenly got late again.
[19:55:21] <somenewguy> so is that like a thumb drive that is seen as a SATA drive?
[19:55:22] <andypugh> Night all.
[19:55:29] <somenewguy> I have honestly never seen that little gidget before
[19:55:44] <andypugh> It mounts on the SATA socket too. Which is fairly handy.
[19:55:50] <somenewguy> nifty
[19:55:53] <somenewguy> and cheaper than a ssd
[19:55:58] <somenewguy> thanks for the pointers, wish me luck tonight