#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-09-28

[00:29:27] <archivist> WalterN, I was expecting this site to have the taper...but no http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/TG_Collet.html
[00:32:21] <WalterN> archivist: yeah, I've seen that
[00:32:50] <WalterN> and really, I cant seem to find the taper for any of the standard collets
[00:33:32] <WalterN> I wonder if its in the machinist handbook... (which I dont have with me)
[00:33:36] <WalterN> erm
[00:33:49] <archivist> the other site I have bookmarked for ER tapers has changed from html to downloadable pdfs but does not have that collet
[00:33:55] <WalterN> machineries handbook
[00:34:31] <WalterN> archivist: does it have AF type?
[00:34:43] <archivist> no
[00:34:56] <WalterN> fail
[00:36:43] <WalterN> how about RDO/Ortlieb type?
[00:36:57] <archivist> for ER http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/REGO-FIX_ER_Dimensions_ER_Collets.pdf
[00:37:11] <WalterN> dont want ER
[00:37:37] <archivist> that was got from http://www.rego-fix.com/en/home/products/technical-information.html
[00:37:48] <archivist> only a small range
[00:37:50] <WalterN> heh... I'm kinda looking for something with a 3 degree taper
[00:38:36] <WalterN> half-angle I guess
[00:40:23] <archivist> I do have a collet brochure stored here just need to find
[00:54:38] <WalterN> ugh, I hate my parents internet
[00:55:39] <WalterN> satellite internet (1second ping time) with a 15gig monthly cap
[01:12:26] <archivist> hmm looks like I have not catalogued the Crawfor Collets brochure yet which means it is in a "stack" waiting http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=Crawford
[01:28:13] <archivist> part of crawfor collets was shut down, the workers started up on their own http://www.djworkholding.co.uk/othertoolholdingcollets.htm, no dimensions though
[02:06:40] <JesusAlos> hi every one
[02:09:03] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/272146
[02:09:18] <JesusAlos> Why appears this message?
[02:09:24] <JesusAlos> eny one know?
[02:12:50] <WalterN> archivist: oh well... a friend might have one that I could just measure
[03:05:32] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/272146
[03:05:36] <JesusAlos> no idea about?
[03:05:45] <JesusAlos> please
[03:24:58] <DJ9DJ> moin
[04:25:43] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[04:56:49] <Einar> Good morning.
[05:25:19] <UncleG> Iv'e been really successful with DC servo systems with encoders, right now im trying AC with resolvers and my amplifiers are asking for HALLS which im not sure how to provide, anyone have any good resources for ace servo w/ resolver explainations?
[05:45:35] <UncleG> halls are optional?
[05:49:02] <archivist> halls are in the AC servo motor for commutation
[05:49:19] <archivist> also known as BLDC
[05:50:09] <archivist> they can be optional with some drives probably
[05:53:49] <UncleG> Im doing some reading on bldc right now
[05:54:56] <UncleG> so the controller provides the hall inputs to the amp and the resolver provides phase signal for controller?
[05:56:12] <archivist> you are confusing the commutation with the resolver
[05:56:31] <archivist> resolver is the servo feedback
[05:56:50] <UncleG> k
[05:58:27] <UncleG> I dont see any hall sensor in my motor, im gravely confused :
[05:59:11] <archivist> are you mis matching motor to driver
[05:59:19] <UncleG> probably
[05:59:36] <archivist> can that driver use that motor without the halls
[05:59:55] <UncleG> Im not sure Im waiting on a response from copely
[06:00:03] <UncleG> copley
[06:02:46] <UncleG> Maybe the motor I have is not what I think it is?
[06:02:53] <UncleG> here is the pdf
[06:02:56] <UncleG> http://www.elwood.com/Images/SW_4in_model_no.pdf
[06:03:09] <archivist> resolver approximately equivalent to an encoder
[06:03:40] <UncleG> m443-gnno-0201
[06:05:11] <Einar> My motors have resolver only. It is used for both commutation and servo feedback. I think this is common when there is an encoder.
[06:06:42] <UncleG> so you arent using the "halls" on your amp?
[06:07:05] <Einar> My amps don't have hall inputs, just encoder inputs.
[06:07:25] <UncleG> ohhh
[06:07:27] <Einar> Hall information would be redundant.
[06:08:25] <Einar> I also have hall commutated servos, but they don't have resolvers. They have encoders for servo feedback.
[06:08:51] <UncleG> how do I know how my servos are commutated?
[06:09:21] <Einar> And some motors have proprietary motor/drive interface like Fanuc.
[06:09:27] <UncleG> O>O
[06:09:33] <archivist> the motors expect you to use the resolver for commutation
[06:09:33] <UncleG> I hope mine are not
[06:09:37] <Einar> You have to check the motor specifications.
[06:11:21] <Einar> I always advise if you buy a motor on Ebay, buy a motor/drive that "belong to each other". It's a pain trying to adopt yourself.
[06:11:40] <UncleG> oops :P
[06:11:54] <UncleG> I got outbid on the amps and not the motors :/
[06:13:14] <Einar> The guy winning the drives probably have the same problem that you have.
[06:13:28] <archivist> or he has a machine to fix
[06:14:18] <Einar> Watch for him maybe relisting it. Yes, maybe he have, or he already have a matching motor. But usually people just see "Servo!" and press buy.
[06:14:50] <UncleG> nah, Ill make this work
[06:14:59] <UncleG> everything else has so far
[06:15:14] <Einar> I don't say you can't marry it to another drive. It's just a lot of "research".
[06:15:15] <archivist> I wonder if the mesa cards can drive it, ask andypugh when he wakes up
[06:15:25] <UncleG> they better
[06:15:26] <UncleG> :P
[06:16:51] <Einar> That would be the best bet, as they are helpful. Parker, Fanuc, Siemens etc. will not bother helping you.
[06:18:32] <UncleG> I also got two other amps which say they are brush or brushless optional
[06:19:56] <UncleG> Im sure I can piece something together
[06:41:23] <UncleG> duel phase command mode, is the direction I think I need to go, does that sound like what you did Einar?
[06:49:31] <archivist> does that mode have a resolver power out
[07:03:02] <UncleG> I really dont know what I would be looking for archivist
[07:05:08] <archivist> as far as I know a resolver has three connections, 3 are the output and 2 the ac supply
[07:06:41] <UncleG> oh, I thought a resolver was an output only device
[07:06:46] <UncleG> like a tach
[07:07:02] <UncleG> hahah I have sooo much to learn again
[07:11:36] <archivist> or is it 6 wires and two separate output windings...
[07:23:27] <Loetmichel> archivist: the resolvers i know have three windings
[07:24:09] <Loetmichel> 2 rotatet 90° apart and one on the rotor that has to be driven with ac
[07:24:27] <Loetmichel> for the 2 phase signlas to appear in the other 2 windings
[07:24:40] <Loetmichel> phase shifted signals
[07:31:28] <archivist> I was too lazy to go upstairs and look in one of the books
[07:32:12] <Einar> Yes. A resolver is a transformer with 1 primary and 2 secondaries. And one part of the core rotates with the motor. The voltage induced in the secondaries makes it possible to determine the position of the core.
[07:34:15] <Einar> Here is a better explanation: http://www.amci.com/tutorials/tutorials-what-is-resolver.asp
[07:42:21] <archivist> I have some synchros and resolvers etc from stuff I got from army surplus, never did power them
[08:07:40] <JesusAlos> hi every one
[08:14:46] <JesusAlos> why if I change the machining velocity, don't change the total time of machining i File>properties?
[08:17:15] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/272183
[08:17:19] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/272184
[08:18:07] <jthornton> properties is a simple sum of rapid and feed moves and does not take any acceleration into account
[08:18:48] <jthornton> to get an accurate time to machine set up a sim with the same configuration and add the timer
[08:19:42] <JesusAlos> machine sim?
[08:20:39] <jthornton> ?
[08:21:08] <JesusAlos> I don't sure what you mean
[08:21:33] <JesusAlos> for see the machining time
[08:21:33] <jthornton> are you trying to get an accurate time to machine a part?
[08:21:52] <JesusAlos> yes
[08:22:10] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/time.9.html
[08:22:19] <JesusAlos> My idea is put a display timmer with python module
[08:36:45] <JesusAlos> jthornton: http://imagebin.org/272186
[08:36:54] <JesusAlos> don't recognize a pin
[08:38:31] <jthornton> my bandwidth is limited and I can't view images
[08:39:33] <archivist> we need our own pastebin with no ads
[08:39:44] <jthornton> aye
[08:40:20] <JesusAlos> http://pastebin.com/Ze8f8VKY
[08:41:10] <Jymmm> archivist: jthornton Look , your own subdomain pastebin no ads http://codepad.org/mkproj
[08:41:54] <Jymmm> or just normal, no ads http://codepad.org/
[08:42:08] <jthornton> post-gui.hal:5: Pin 'halui.program.is-idle' does not exist
[08:42:37] <JesusAlos> yes
[08:42:58] <Jymmm> archivist: AdBlock Plus works wonderfully.
[08:42:58] <jthornton> did you load halui?
[08:44:09] <JesusAlos> no
[08:44:11] <JesusAlos> sorry
[08:44:11] <Jymmm> jthornton: you overran you limit again?
[08:44:23] <jthornton> still
[08:44:29] <Jymmm> ah
[08:44:35] <jthornton> resets on the 1st
[08:45:11] <Jymmm> jthornton: you running an ad blocker?
[08:45:50] <jthornton> aye
[08:46:04] <Jymmm> k
[08:46:44] <Jymmm> jthornton: Any idea on how you overran it in the first place?
[08:47:17] <JesusAlos> I load it now, and say: post-gui.hal:7: Pin 'pyvcp.time-seconds' does not exist
[08:47:24] <jthornton> I think the eye pad and eye cloud and eye phone used it up
[08:47:41] <JesusAlos> but is in post-gui.hal file
[08:47:52] <jthornton> did you create the xml file and add pyvcp to your ini
[08:48:00] <JesusAlos> yes
[08:48:33] <Jymmm> jthornton: I know android has a bandwidth measure/limiter at least, do yours ?
[08:49:27] <jthornton> dunno
[08:49:42] <jthornton> I just turned off all the wifi on all the eye tings
[08:50:09] <JesusAlos> ok
[08:50:23] <jthornton> JesusAlos, check for typos, comment out offending lines then look at show hal configuration to see if the pins exist
[08:50:37] <JesusAlos> I was declared HALFILE = post-gui.hal
[08:50:48] <JesusAlos> and now: POSTGUI_HALFILE = post-gui.hal
[08:50:52] <JesusAlos> and run ok
[08:51:43] <Jymmm> jthornton: ipad > settings > usage (to see at least)
[08:52:35] <Jymmm> jthornton: Doesn't look like it's built in as I'm seeing "Bandwidth limit apps" that can be installed, where it's built into android.
[08:52:44] <JesusAlos> Thank jthornton. But there are no way to know the countdown
[08:52:53] <JesusAlos> ?
[08:53:19] <jthornton> countdown?
[08:54:36] <JesusAlos> The time remaining to finish the job
[08:59:02] <jthornton> no
[08:59:05] <Jymmm> archivist: This is kinda nice image paste and gives shorturl too http://pbrd.co/1fQeavy
[08:59:33] <Jymmm> http://pasteboard.co/
[08:59:35] <jthornton> you have to run once to know exact time
[09:04:35] <JesusAlos> ok
[09:05:49] <jthornton> you would have to run the G code at least once to know the exact time, this can be done in a sim
[09:06:07] <JesusAlos> so, how obtain the time in the properties window?
[09:06:48] <jthornton> I don't know how to get that
[09:07:08] <jthornton> other than looking and copy
[09:09:26] <JesusAlos> ok. thank
[09:14:23] <JT-Shop> I've looked in the past and can't even find where properties is calculated
[09:30:49] <JesusAlos> jthornton: where developers create the functions similar like you do
[09:30:49] <JesusAlos> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/time.9.html
[09:30:54] <JesusAlos> ??
[09:31:06] <JesusAlos> in what file I want t osay
[09:31:18] <JesusAlos> in what file I want to say
[09:34:07] <JT-Shop> instructions for creating a component http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html
[09:36:36] <JesusAlos> thank
[09:48:38] <JesusAlos> look http://imagebin.org/272146
[09:48:52] <JesusAlos> this error appear to me today
[09:48:54] <Tom_itx> JesusAlos, my config displays 2 timers, overall time and actual cycle time: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[10:02:20] <JesusAlos> Tom_itx: I trying, but overall time ever in 0
[10:02:35] <JesusAlos> current time increase well
[10:12:36] <Tom_itx> in your hal:
[10:12:40] <Tom_itx> # load for Cycle Timer
[10:12:40] <Tom_itx> loadrt time count=2
[10:13:04] <Tom_itx> # Cycle Timer
[10:13:05] <Tom_itx> addf time.0 servo-thread
[10:13:05] <Tom_itx> addf time.1 servo-thread
[10:13:50] <Tom_itx> then look at postgui.hal and display.xml for the rest
[10:27:52] <JesusAlos> Tom_itx: undestand, the overall time start count when open linuxcnc and current time increase when start machine
[10:27:55] <JesusAlos> no?
[10:30:07] <andypugh> JesusAlos: The first message is a problem with the G-code.
[10:31:54] <andypugh> JesusAlos: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators#Arc_Buddy might help
[10:32:48] <JesusAlos> I create the code with Cambam
[10:32:51] <JesusAlos> automatic
[10:35:22] <JesusAlos> andypugh: you mean cambam don't create right g-code in some cases?
[10:35:45] <andypugh> I am about to draw those points and look.
[10:36:28] <Tom_itx> your cam post must agree with what your machine want's to see
[10:36:40] <Tom_itx> may require minor tweaking
[10:45:31] <JesusAlos> Tom_itx: your code is based of John Thornton TIME HAL component
[10:45:45] <Tom_itx> sure is
[10:46:17] <JesusAlos> but I looking for the way to know the time of job, with out sim
[10:46:25] <JesusAlos> thank
[10:46:40] <Tom_itx> no way unless you tweak your cam to represent actual run time
[10:46:42] <JesusAlos> like a countdown
[10:46:56] <Tom_itx> my cam outputs a run time but i've never set it up to be accurate
[10:49:44] <pcw_home> t12: Not that I have been able to find with just random googling
[10:49:45] <pcw_home> with an encoder I might be able to figure it out/interface to it,
[10:49:47] <pcw_home> better still is somone with a encoder/drive/breakout cable, and logic anaylser :-)
[10:51:04] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Those points are definitely wrong. As it says, 0.7mm out on the end position, or about 6mm error on the centre point.
[10:57:44] <JesusAlos> so, is G-code error like you said
[11:26:06] * archivist reminds people of #linuxcnc-meet
[11:30:52] <tjtr33> thx archivist
[11:31:36] <Jymmm> jthornton: What # is 1/8" SS welding rods ?
[11:32:04] <Jymmm> jthornton: and which grade is "rust proof" ?
[11:34:39] <Jymmm> Hmmmm #3 = 1/16". Now to find the # for 1/8"
[11:34:46] <JesusAlos> can I pause the time in John Thornton TIME HAL component?
[11:35:30] <Jymmm> Ah, #1 = 1/8" diameter
[11:37:09] <roycroft> 308 rod is most commonly used to weld 304 stainless
[11:37:22] <roycroft> 316 rod is used to weld 316 stainless
[11:37:37] <roycroft> and 309 rod is used to weld mild steel to stainless steel
[11:37:45] <Jymmm> roycroft: not being used for actual welding =)
[11:37:49] <roycroft> oh
[11:39:09] <JesusAlos> 316 stainless is approved in Europe to alimentary industry.
[11:39:11] <Jymmm> I guess E304L isn't subject to rust *rust*
[11:39:19] <Jymmm> *shrug*
[11:39:30] <JesusAlos> I can touch aliments directly
[11:40:27] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: didn't even know they went by a number
[11:41:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, neither did I , learn something new =)
[11:42:02] <t12> pcw: logic analyzer and a driver is the path i'm going
[11:42:15] <t12> it appears to actually be a sort of
[11:42:23] <t12> request/response weird serial bus
[12:02:14] <JesusAlos> joint 0 following error
[12:02:21] <JesusAlos> this appear in a sim machine
[12:02:40] <JesusAlos> with out electronic, only PC
[12:03:32] <JesusAlos> is for noise? or possible are related with my "real time delay" problem?
[12:07:50] <skunkworks> JesusAlos: yes - realtime issues will cause following errors
[12:15:52] <JesusAlos> If mu PC have good latency and appear this error, Is because my BASE_PERIOD value wrong?
[12:32:44] <JesusAlos> Please: I must take the values BASE_PERIOD and SERVO_PERIOD like this? http://imagebin.org/272203
[12:38:08] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Well, that looks like it ought to be alright.
[12:38:55] <andypugh> There is another cause of following errors with steppers, if the requested step rate is faster than the machine can manage.
[12:59:49] <pcw_home> t12 not terribly surprising, all absolute serial encoders Ive seen use some kind of master/slave req/data schems
[13:04:17] <t12> it seems that it may only be a sort of
[13:04:21] <t12> memory absolute
[13:04:37] <t12> ie just a ucpu + some kind of storage that counts ticks
[13:04:44] <t12> vs absolute scale or whatnot
[13:04:56] <t12> (assumed because theres a battery line for the encoder)
[13:05:00] <pcw_home> The Misubishi encoders look very much like Fanuc clones down to the Oldham coupler
[13:05:37] <pcw_home> The Fanuc ones are battery backed but actually count when on battery power
[13:06:01] <t12> keeping up with the pulse rate may be hard?
[13:06:20] <t12> for 2^17 tics/rev
[13:06:26] <pcw_home> so are full absolute once homed (and you dont lose battery power)
[13:06:45] <t12> i guess i'm a purist and consider absolute to mean the actual position is read from the encoding mechanism
[13:07:15] <pcw_home> the fanuc absolute ones just draw more battery power if you turn them faster when on backup
[13:07:44] <t12> i've prolly now put too many things to dev in the pipeline to get any of this to work heh
[13:07:49] <pcw_home> the other common non battery way is gears
[13:08:46] <pcw_home> (Okuma and various SSI encoders have one turn absoluet and then gears for multiturn)
[13:10:35] <pcw_home> Renco resolute encoders are inherently absolute (a pattern is read that gives the absolute location)
[13:15:31] <t12> when servoing in linuxcnc
[13:15:50] <t12> is the position polled? waited on? am i using the wrong abstraction?
[13:16:10] <andypugh> t12 polled.
[13:16:31] <t12> does this imply that the polling latency limits the servo bandwidth
[13:16:52] <andypugh> Yes.
[13:16:56] <andypugh> But then, it always will.
[13:17:22] <t12> i'm thinking of it either as ask and block, or select() loop style ask and see if there is anything otherwise assume nothing has changed
[13:17:42] <andypugh> Typically the servo thread reads the position, calculates the PID then writes the command voltages. Then waits 1mS and does it again.
[13:19:46] <t12> i guess we'll see if i actually get this working on mesa drivers or if i give up and just use the mitsubishi driver heh
[13:28:53] <tjtr33> how to try cradek's rdelta vismach ?
[13:28:55] <tjtr33> i did 'git branch --track ja3 origin/joints_axes3' then 'git checkout ja3' but the cfg sim/axis/rdelta not present
[13:36:39] <andypugh> tjtr33: Which /sim/axis directory?
[13:37:24] <andypugh> It seems to exist: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis;h=148f833f12dda89a99419cfece2a6b6703cc2e7a;hb=6a281a6194d770771cb3d6c6441588496c423d12
[13:38:11] <tjtr33> ~/linuxcnc-dev/sim/axis has no rd* directory nor files, i found some _l_delta ini & hal on git
[13:39:06] <andypugh> git fetch ?
[13:43:19] <tjtr33> hehe followed your notes on how to install ja3, can try messing with git fetch but paranoid
[13:43:32] <tjtr33> (holds nose, dives in )
[14:56:33] <Einar> Pheww.. Gutting the Boxford. There is not one wire with marking where it goes to! When they built it, it must have been a wonder if it worked on first try. And most 240V wires are red or black.
[14:56:56] <Einar> I've been pulling wires all evening figuring it out.
[15:13:53] <andypugh> Einar: Red and black was conventional UK mains fixed-wiring colours when it was built.
[15:41:31] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:14:14] <tjb1> http://i.imgur.com/dozA7mD.jpg
[19:00:52] <tjtr33> cradek jepler maybe of interest the Verne machine: like a deltaRobotSpindle over an AB Trunnion kins here http://arxiv.org/pdf/0811.4733.pdf
[19:04:43] <tjtr33> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU56NOMgrow
[19:06:24] <tjtr33> isane accelerations 50G
[19:06:35] <tjtr33> insane