Back
[05:16:25] <automata_> hi pcw
[06:54:44] <DJ9DJ> hi
[07:51:45] <skunkworks> odd unrelated question.. I have now seen to systems with unmached size memory show as dual channel
[07:51:50] <skunkworks> two
[07:52:19] <skunkworks> I thought they had to be of same size and type.
[07:56:14] <skunkworks> and color
[07:56:41] <archivist_> and phase of the moon
[07:57:06] <archivist_> but...what does the motherboard manual say :)
[07:57:43] <skunkworks> pshaa!!
[09:03:27] <jdh> Open Source Mechatronics Outreach & Creative Exchange Symposium
[09:03:31] <jdh> that's quite the name.
[09:03:49] <archivist_> I just got that spam mailing too :)
[09:04:05] <archivist_> I am in the wrong country though
[09:04:33] <jdh> the arduino pic didn't help either
[09:05:50] <jdh> 'size' is along longest edge
[09:06:09] <jdh> <wrong channel>
[09:17:22] <JT-Shop> anyone bored and want to look at my mill G code generator?
[09:20:04] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: I took a peek a week or two ago at the tap drill charts
[09:22:15] <kwallace> jdh: archivist: Did you see the entry at the bottom of this page?
http://www.osmoces.org/speakers.html "Linux CNC Ed Ford Inventables"
[09:25:54] <kwallace> JT-Shop: Anything in particular to look at?
[09:26:25] <JT-Shop> just look and see if it is intutive
[09:26:43] <JT-Shop> CaptHindsight: this is not a chart
[09:26:52] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/files/mill.zip
[09:27:16] <JT-Shop> kwallace: the tapping and hole making is complete afaik
[09:27:37] <JT-Shop> if you leave the tool # blank it assumes you don't have a tool changer
[09:31:36] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: thats how I used it, to check tap drill sizes :)
[09:33:42] <kwallace> JT-Shop: May I pass your mill.zip link to the guys I am working with?
[09:35:45] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: I noticed that some UNC inch thread sizes have dia. specs in mm
[09:37:36] <CaptHindsight> the values look correct in inches but they just have the mm label after them
[09:37:54] <JT-Shop> which one's?
[09:38:22] <CaptHindsight> UNF and UNC
[09:38:42] <CaptHindsight> I have Mill Gen 0.5
[09:39:14] <JT-Shop> that is very very old. the file name is sfc.py?
[09:39:25] <CaptHindsight> mill.py
[09:39:48] <JT-Shop> download the latest one 1.0
[09:42:38] <CaptHindsight> 1.0 looks fine
[09:46:52] <CaptHindsight> kwallace: Inventables is a new company that seems to be selling materials and tools that you'd find at a makerspace
[09:47:45] <CaptHindsight> high end craft supplies
[09:48:36] <CaptHindsight> they got a couple million in venture
[09:52:29] <JT-Shop> thanks for looking
[09:53:03] <kwallace> I can't imagine there is a very large market for Making. It feels like when the Gold Rush was on, the only people making money where the people selling picks and shovels, but then the bubble always bursts.
[09:53:10] <CaptHindsight> https://www.inventables.com/categories/machines/cnc-mills they all seem to be using Arduinos for controllers
[09:54:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-printer-the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc
[09:55:08] <CaptHindsight> this is a good example of it
[09:55:36] <CaptHindsight> low cost and shoddy and sort of works
[09:56:37] <kwallace> Migrating to Beagle/LinuxCNC from Arduino should be fairly easy.
[09:57:10] <CaptHindsight> kwallace: there has been lots of hype and some people still have spare money to throw around
[09:57:53] <CaptHindsight> yet, Walmart is slowing down it's orders since they can't move their current inventory
[09:58:23] <CaptHindsight> so their customer base (the majority) is running out of money
[10:01:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.shapeoko.com/
[10:01:36] <CaptHindsight> maybe thats the plan to move to Linuxcnc
[10:03:58] <CaptHindsight> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/mini-cnc-engraving-router Mach3 on this one
[10:11:26] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: I'll try it out over the next few weeks
[10:12:33] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
[10:14:26] <kwallace> I'm surprised Lady Ada and Spark Fun where tiny not so long ago and I have seen them on Nova and other main stream programs.
[10:15:41] <CaptHindsight> low cost, almost useful and partially open source does have a following
[10:17:28] <kwallace> Maybe it is the kids of the 1%er's driving it. If so, the money should be stable, but maybe not what interests them.
[10:17:49] <CaptHindsight> just about all the small independent electronic and surplus distributors in the USA disappeared
[10:21:00] <CaptHindsight> Radio Shack started carrying the Arduinos
[10:24:35] <JT-Shop> kwallace: this is how OneCNC does drilling
http://imagebin.org/271982
[11:16:06] <kwallace> I'm thinking about getting one of these and use the the Modbus port.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300652886556 Does anyone have an opinion on these VFDs?
[11:18:03] <archivist_> hmm 16 legs of speed
[11:18:11] <jdh> heh
[11:19:49] <archivist_> "PASS ISO9001 quality certificationwhich means this item is the top quanlity item" cannot spell quality though
[11:20:18] <jdh> it's cheap.
[11:20:25] <archivist_> I know
[11:21:14] <archivist_> I need one or two as I have a useless couple of machines here at the moment without
[11:23:26] <kwallace> I used to cruise eBay for used VFDs, but the prices have gone way up and these new ones are too cheap to not consider.
[11:24:04] <jdh> you can get a teco/westinghouse for slightly more. No idea if they are any better though.
[11:29:52] <archivist_> I just hope a beg to someone I know turns up more VFDs :)
[11:38:58] <archivist_> hmm must stop looking at fleabay inverters
[11:48:52] <kwallace> The cheap FM50 Teco doesn't have Modbus. The 7200 does but it's not cheap.
[12:08:34] <uw> i find that annoying about ebay too
[12:08:53] <uw> where people have this stuff listed for 8 months at some ridiculous price
[12:10:23] <uw> i usually email them offers of even more absurd prices (much less than i was willing to pay)
[12:12:33] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:29:41] <DJ9DJ> hi
[12:30:18] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:20:20] <CaptHindsight> kwallace:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-spindle/led-display same thing here
[13:25:55] <uw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZSgIpOpBG4
[13:31:15] <IchGuckLive> im off by
[13:40:41] <voxadam> Do the Mesa cards (e.g. 5i20) require a kernel module under Linux or is it entirely driven from userspace?
[13:43:22] <voxadam> How does the hostmot2 firmware present the FPGA to the system on the PCI bus?
[13:44:03] <micges> it's mapped to memory
[13:44:18] <voxadam> Well that's sure simple. :)
[13:44:44] <micges> I mean firmware have 64k window which is mapped to mem
[13:45:02] <micges> all control is going by this window
[13:45:59] <andypugh> voxadam: In the current LinuxCNC it all happens in kernel modules. But that will change in the next version.
[13:46:03] <voxadam> There's no sysfs, configfs, or other Linux-type interfaces presented to userspace?
[13:47:13] <voxadam> I'm just currious. I'd like to get a 5i20 or 5i22 for LinuxCNC experimenting but I know I won't be able to keep myself from hooking it up to anything else that I can get my hands on.
[13:47:13] <micges> no
[13:47:39] <andypugh> There is some stuff in /proc/rtapi but that isn't directly Hostmot2 related
[13:48:29] <voxadam> Interesting. I suppose the module(s) as they stand now are in no way mainline material.
[13:48:33] <micges> there is mesaflash utility that access few boards from user space root account, you can check it's source code
[13:48:39] <andypugh> voxadam: The FPGA holds the program until the PC is turned off. You could load the firmware from a Halcmd prompt.
[13:48:53] <micges> it is in most zip files on mesanet.com
[13:51:18] <voxadam> Does hostmot2 run on the larger 5I22 boards or just the 5I20?
[13:51:28] <andypugh> All of them
[13:51:36] <false8> Hey guys, anybody know if the granite devices crew is ever on here?
[13:52:03] <andypugh> I have never seen anyone admit to being linked to them. But then I rarely see PCW admit to being Mr Mesa.
[13:52:26] <false8> yeah but that's kind of a public secret no?
[13:53:24] <archivist_> it is an NSA secret
[13:53:32] <false8> Ah I like that one :P
[13:54:52] <false8> archivist_: you listened to this one:
https://soundcloud.com/madiha-1/students-question-the-nsa-at
[13:55:01] <false8> you probably did, like the rest of the world
[13:55:13] <CaptHindsight> or NASA secret if from Brazil :)
[13:55:22] <false8> heheh
[14:00:13] <false8> Well, I'll go and create a ticket then, unless anyone has anything to say about this:
http://tinypic.com/r/2r40efk/5
[14:00:46] <false8> This is on all grounds, as soon as I enable my drives.
[14:01:26] <false8> I've check recheck my grounding (star), but am unable to find it, maybe tero knows what I can do about this :P
[14:02:14] <archivist_> insufficient data for meaningful answer :)
[14:02:22] <Jymmm> *NEW* Island for sale...
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/09/pakistans-earthquake-was-so-powerful-it-created-new-island/69813/
[14:02:23] <tjtr33> anyone interested in ability to look at tool or workpiece during a cut by pausing, jogging away, looking, then returning to cut?
[14:02:24] <tjtr33> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Jog-While-Paused
[14:02:44] <false8> that sounds good
[14:02:47] <awallin_> false8: I don't think the granitedevices guy hangs out here much afaik..
[14:03:31] <false8> I was afraid of that :P, they are not too fast at responding via the ticketing system, but the answers are high qualtity :)
[14:03:54] <false8> archivist_: what kind of data would you need?
[14:04:07] <false8> all of it :P
[14:04:31] <archivist_> I am used to seeing ringing, ...
[14:05:04] <false8> Because of your job? (or am I not getting a joke?)
[14:05:10] <archivist_> what is the source, it it supposed to have a local filter added
[14:06:08] <archivist_> spent many years as an electronic engineer so job
[14:06:25] <false8> As soon as the motor outputs of the drives are enabled this signal is everywhere
[14:06:51] <pcw_home> Motor drives are notorious for ground bumping
[14:06:53] <archivist_> is this from a vfd, has it got the correct filter added to it
[14:07:27] <false8> The drives are connect like this: 3ph transformer > 3ph recifier > granite devices vsd-e
[14:07:51] <pcw_home> a common mode choke on the three motor wires will help a lot
[14:08:26] <archivist_> has granite got an app note for filtering their drives
[14:09:19] <false8> nope, there is only mention of an ac line filter
[14:10:32] <false8> pcw_home: the servo's are dc, but the drives are pwm mode, so 2 chokes would help?
[14:10:58] <false8> pcw_home: those would need to be connected as close to the drive as possible right?
[14:11:24] <pcw_home> I would try a common mode choke on the motor leads first
[14:12:06] <pcw_home> (giant ferrite bead with both motor wires put through once or more)
[14:12:55] <joebog> morning all, all 3 axis up and running and under MY control :)
[14:13:00] <false8> pcw_home: I might have a couple here
[14:13:00] <archivist_> take a ferrite out of an old PC psu input choke maybe
[14:13:38] <false8> joebog: congrats, hoping that will be the case here to, very soon :P
[14:13:55] <joebog> tis easy !!!
[14:14:06] <joebog> and the guys here are priceless :)
[14:14:29] <false8> they are
[14:14:58] <joebog> http://s80.photobucket.com/user/amp_mangler/library/linuxcnc_fitting
[14:15:02] <joebog> more pics up
[14:15:25] <archivist_> I get a white screen on photobucket :((((
[14:15:26] <joebog> and I actually cut the LinuxCNC logo into a bit of scrap timber :D
[14:17:06] <joebog> today I need a lil more advice, then Ill order the 4th axis driver
[14:17:29] <joebog> motor is rated 3.5 amps and is 200 steps per rev
[14:17:38] <mrsun_> gah pricing of stuff .. what a pain :/
[14:17:40] <archivist_> the 4th makes you crave for 5 :)
[14:18:08] <joebog> I figure another IL804 stepper driver will fit the bill perfectly
[14:18:15] <joebog> BUT Ill check first
[14:18:32] <joebog> no need for 5
[14:18:41] <joebog> after all its just an engraver !!!
[14:18:57] <joebog> BUT will be used for gun parts as I explained
[14:21:06] <joebog> you running linux archivist ?
[14:21:28] <archivist_> are there any other OSs
[14:21:42] <joebog> heh heh my man !!! nope :D
[14:21:55] <archivist_> two machines on linuxcnc
[14:21:58] <joebog> you do have java installed ?
[14:22:27] <joebog> and you repaired broken packages ?
[14:23:26] <archivist_> java.. yes but it a hateful heap
[14:23:29] <joebog> photobucket is pretty crappy graphics but should work with only a basic setup
[14:23:45] <joebog> yah I know :)
[14:23:48] <archivist_> it does not work on old firefox
[14:23:53] <joebog> security like windowz
[14:24:24] <joebog> ya doan wanna update ?
[14:24:37] <archivist_> do not confuse java with javascript
[14:33:18] <kengu> what is it with all the tb6560 driver boards all over the internet
[14:34:12] <archivist_> the price I suppose, not the quality
[14:34:22] <andypugh> Cheap. Adequate. What's not to like.
[14:34:23] <joebog> and they workOK
[14:34:39] <joebog> my machine works andy :)
[14:35:05] <archivist_> some report easy to kill
[14:35:13] <joebog> now I need run 4th axis
[14:35:27] <joebog> then learn to convert drawings to G code
[14:35:43] <joebog> so I have heard archivist
[14:35:51] <joebog> mine still work OK :)
[14:36:20] <joebog> 5 drivers and the breakout board $129 ya cant beat that
[14:36:47] <joebog> the breakout board is now running my IL804,s
[14:37:44] <joebog> does anybody know where to get those flat belts that are like 10mm X 1.5 mm X 520
[14:38:33] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/page4.html
[14:38:38] <joebog> I need some for the engraving machine, when I did my logo in timber with a router bit one of them started to shred, but it was in very poor condition anyway
[14:39:12] <cpresser> joebog: google for 'timing belt'
[14:39:12] <joebog> service unavailable andy
[14:39:24] <kengu> no it is not
[14:40:09] <archivist_> andypugh, would be nice if he replied to emails
[14:40:13] <joebog> its not a toothed belt at all its a flsat belt
[14:40:43] <joebog> flat !! and it runs at like 20,000 rpms
[14:40:57] <andypugh> Yes, try that URL again
[14:41:01] <joebog> or can do depending on requirements
[14:41:29] <tjtr33> flat belts
http://www.mcmaster.com/#flat-drive-belts/=oofs9f ( tho i get mine from Kity in France )
[14:41:38] <eliezer> quien habla español
[14:42:37] <archivist_> english
[14:42:57] <joebog> works now andy, thanks
[14:43:27] <joebog> andy I do electronics more than machine tools, I owe you, so should you need something please ask
[14:43:34] <eliezer> cnc channel to speak Spanish
[14:43:57] <archivist_> we do not know of one
[14:44:34] <andypugh> You could try
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/45-espanol but I don't think there is much traffic there.
[14:45:11] <joebog> thanks tjt damn the yanks with the archaic measureing system based on king henry's foot
[14:45:44] <joebog> I did bookmark the site however :)
[14:46:03] <andypugh> eliezer:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spanish_cnczone/
[14:46:44] <eliezer> but irc channel speaking cnc
[14:51:10] <uw> no aquí
[14:52:00] <eliezer> uw tu hablas español
[14:52:09] <eliezer> uw, hablas español
[14:53:02] <uw> si pero no asi
[14:53:17] <JT-Shop> that's two of the 4 spanish words I know :(
[14:53:29] <uw> me too lol
[14:53:55] <jdh> me pene es pequeno y muy verde!
[14:54:04] <jdh> maybe that should have been mi
[14:54:12] <eliezer> jajajaja
[14:54:18] <uw> lol wwat
[14:54:19] <eliezer> no y como
[14:54:21] <false8> pcw_home: chokes halved the p-p value, stupid I didn't do that earlier, thought it wouldn't make much difference. And that my problem lies elsewhere
[14:54:33] <eliezer> uw, y como no entiendo
[14:54:33] <joebog> Ill have mine with mustard thanks jdh :)
[14:54:48] <jdh> joebog: you might want to rethink that.
[14:55:15] <uw> eh i'll have to look that one up
[14:55:16] <joebog> I speak strine only and even that I do poorly
[14:55:48] <jdh> eliezer: try google translate, no hablo espanol.
[14:55:57] <eliezer> ah ok
[14:56:24] <uw> i speak american
[14:56:32] <uw> which is primarily english
[14:56:37] <uw> but very broken spanish
[14:56:39] <archivist_> I spek tyop
[15:01:25] <false8> I could only loop my wires once, so getting a choke that can hold more windings would help.
[15:01:40] <joebog> I think I might have met two spaniards in my 60 years
[15:02:48] <joebog> false8 almost any old style switchmode power supply will have at least a few
[15:03:10] <joebog> but even if you have to buy them they only cost a few cents in iron powder
[15:03:18] <uw> yea to be honest i think i'm about the same, meeting 2 spaniards
[15:03:22] <uw> lots of mexicans though
[15:03:25] <joebog> when you get to the fancier ferrites they can cost more
[15:03:26] <false8> Yes I know but its 2145 here :P
[15:04:17] <joebog> old PSU from puter will have em prolly prewound for ya
[15:04:36] <kengu> 22:49 here. but what was this all about
[15:04:47] <joebog> and I missed the first half of your conversation, BUT when I read P-P you have noise problems
[15:05:01] <joebog> 05:50 am here friday
[15:05:32] <joebog> iron powder is prolly best for quenching switch noise
[15:06:01] <joebog> BUT there is also a huge array of GEMOVS that do it admirably as well
[15:08:31] <skunkworks> mhaberler, messages go to syslog and linuxcnc.log? (I have ubc3 and the 7i80)
[15:08:41] <skunkworks> installed
[15:08:45] <mhaberler> linuxcnc.log
[15:08:52] <false8> jep, currently killing a psu :O
[15:09:08] <skunkworks> I see it going to both.. (and I still am not seeing pin data..)
[15:11:17] <joebog> back to back zener diodes can help if you have big enough ones
[15:11:35] <joebog> depends on amount of back emf energy
[15:12:30] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/2458849
[15:12:32] <skunkworks> and
[15:13:18] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/2458848
[15:13:26] <skunkworks> (syslog and linuxcnc.log)
[15:13:59] <skunkworks> this is in the syslog...
[15:14:01] <skunkworks> empire-System-Product-Name rsyslogd-2177: imuxsock begins to drop messages from pid 28002 due to rate-limiting
[15:16:56] <skunkworks> mhaberler, I have to go. bbl
[15:17:30] <mhaberler> Seb's code is too verbose ;)
[15:28:14] <andypugh> I normally spend 2 weeks a year in Granada. I have no excuse at all for not speaking spanish.
[15:29:33] <joebog> You go to Coronation street ??
[15:29:41] <joebog> :D
[15:30:08] <JT-Shop> my wife is Puerto Rican, I wonder what my excuse is?
[15:35:46] <false8> Is it worth mentioning the servos are dc? (Probably not because the drive is pwm output anyway)
[15:39:27] <JesusAlos> hi all
[15:41:33] <joebog> yeah false8 and what ya get is big bloody spikes as you modulate the motors back and forth
[15:41:51] <joebog> chokes, gemovs about the only way to cure it
[15:42:04] <JesusAlos> for the moment, the 5i25 PCI clean issue, do good results
[15:44:09] <false8> joebog: I'll need to get some big ones then :P
[15:44:29] <joebog> have you measured the voltage ?
[15:44:37] <false8> with a dmm?
[15:44:47] <joebog> or is your CRO even fast enough to catch the peaks ?
[15:44:56] <false8> cro?
[15:44:57] <joebog> ya need an oscilloscope
[15:45:11] <joebog> CRO = cathode ray oscilloscope
[15:45:16] <joebog> I have 5 diff ones
[15:45:32] <false8> I have a hameg 1004
[15:45:32] <joebog> depends what Im doing
[15:45:42] <joebog> dunno what that is
[15:45:50] <false8> Nice scope, pic of the output is in the channel
[15:45:54] <joebog> its a LED digital one isnt it ?
[15:46:10] <false8> http://tinypic.com/r/2r40efk/5
[15:46:14] <false8> Nope, analog
[15:46:30] <false8> analog scope that is
[15:46:56] <joebog> yup
[15:46:57] <joebog> thats rplle !!!
[15:47:05] <joebog> ripple
[15:47:27] <joebog> thgats the motor coils ringing, only cure is chokes
[15:47:36] <joebog> or even LC networks
[15:47:48] <false8> So I will need some BIG ones?
[15:47:55] <joebog> nope
[15:48:07] <joebog> timebase is 1 usec??
[15:48:14] <joebog> at top left of screen ?
[15:48:28] <false8> Jep
[15:48:52] <joebog> and its an AC pic so I dont know what DC you are applying
[15:49:03] <joebog> whats the DC motor supply volts ?
[15:49:22] <false8> supply is at +-120VDC
[15:49:24] <joebog> and what current do the motors draw ?
[15:50:11] <joebog> ya have some biggiosh polyester caps layin about ? say 1 uF @1200 volts or so ?
[15:50:18] <joebog> oil filled paper be better
[15:50:32] <false8> my amp clamp is broken so I can't see that right now
[15:50:45] <false8> nope don't have any of those
[15:52:05] <JesusAlos> I have a noise problem with lpt interface 5V
[15:52:13] <joebog> I would have a look for some
[15:52:25] <false8> output drive is about 0.5VDC but thats on a digital mm
[15:52:26] <joebog> connect them directly at the motor connections
[15:52:44] <joebog> straight across the motor
[15:53:05] <joebog> you can also try a choke in series with the cap
[15:53:57] <joebog> say a 1/2 inch inside diameter toroid with say 10 turns of .75mm wire in yank speak thats about 16 G insulated with PVC not winding wire
[15:53:59] <false8> I will search for some, the servo's are big ones bdw, 1600W's so I'll need a low esr cap right?
[15:54:25] <joebog> ya need non polarised caps
[15:54:34] <false8> But this is normal behavior for dc servos?
[15:54:55] <joebog> so ESR will be higher than we like BUT its a clamp if ya like to detune the resonance of the motor windings
[15:55:18] <false8> I have some electronics background, but motors are a bit new to me, on this scale anyway
[15:55:21] <joebog> more important will be voltage ratings !!!! ya will need 1200 volts ( off the top of my head)
[15:55:31] <joebog> BUT keep an eye on the temperature !!!
[15:55:37] <false8> Yep, will do
[15:55:39] <joebog> if they get hot its too small
[15:56:11] <joebog> its normal behaviour when the impedance of the power supply is too high
[15:56:28] <joebog> not enough oomph to dampen the ringing
[15:56:37] <false8> so the impendance of the drives is to low
[15:56:48] <joebog> too high
[15:57:05] <joebog> low impedance woks like a car with sports shocks
[15:57:19] <joebog> high impedance works like car with bouncy shocks
[15:58:44] <false8> I have a nice big choke on the old spindle drive. 2.5mh 50a
[15:59:01] <false8> I could canibalize it to test?
[15:59:20] <joebog> wont hurt to try it in series with one leg of the motor
[15:59:30] <joebog> but what you really need is the caps
[15:59:53] <false8> Ok, Ill go and get those then.
[15:59:53] <joebog> the choke will resist it
[16:00:03] <joebog> but the caps will dampen the ringing
[16:00:31] <joebog> just cheapo polyester "greencap" style to start with
[16:00:42] <joebog> should cosdt ya 50 cents each on fleabay
[16:00:47] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:01:05] <joebog> if they do the job ( ya may need twi in parr)
[16:01:18] <joebog> then go buy phase correction paper in oil caps
[16:01:28] <joebog> they will be 10 or 15 bucks each
[16:02:04] <joebog> ratings will be at LEAST 440volts AC and capacity equal to or near to what you end up with in polyester caps
[16:02:42] <false8> Ok, I'll keep that in mind, thanks!
[16:02:48] <joebog> the polyesters will eventually go short circuit !!!!
[16:03:03] <joebog> the paper caps go open circuit after a long time
[16:03:16] <joebog> polyester doesnt really like pulse duty
[16:03:41] <joebog> polypropylene is better BUT more expensive
[16:03:59] <joebog> PIO ( paper in oil ) are the beest way to go
[16:05:05] <joebog> what is the voltage level of that screen pic you showed ?
[16:05:26] <false8> 2v/div
[16:05:30] <joebog> is it only about 8 volts ?
[16:05:38] <false8> yes, but its everywhere
[16:05:43] <joebog> or do you have a multiplying probe attatched ?
[16:05:55] <false8> Yes but its on 1x
[16:06:03] <joebog> OK :)
[16:06:10] <false8> Its on the common, and the PE
[16:06:23] <joebog> just checkin :)
[16:06:23] <joebog> PE ???
[16:06:41] <false8> protective earth
[16:07:33] <false8> but, thats kind of expected, the pe and the hvdc supply negative are connected
[16:07:35] <joebog> thanks
[16:07:47] <false8> thanks for what?
[16:07:57] <false8> I should be thanking you
[16:07:59] <joebog> hmm its a normal split supply ?
[16:08:37] <joebog> a bridge rectifier with centre ( o volts) tap from transformer centre tap ?
[16:09:00] <joebog> like you would find in a modern transistor audio amp ?
[16:09:04] <false8> Nope, 3ph transformer > 3ph rectifier
[16:09:14] <joebog> plus and minus 120 volts
[16:09:36] <joebog> BUT the secondary is single phase isnt it ?
[16:09:41] <false8> nope
[16:09:48] <joebog> so six diodses
[16:09:59] <false8> 3ph in 3ph out, 90vac phase to phase
[16:10:03] <false8> yes 6 diodes
[16:10:23] <joebog> one nd of the diodes is positive and the other negative
[16:10:34] <false8> ues
[16:10:35] <false8> yes
[16:10:36] <joebog> where does the centre tap of the supply come from ?
[16:10:54] <false8> you will have to help me on that one
[16:10:59] <joebog> is it star or delta ?
[16:11:47] <false8> You mean where the 0VAC is? Sorry english is not my first language.
[16:12:04] <joebog> yes where is the 0 VAC
[16:12:04] <rob_h> hi
[16:12:12] <joebog> gday rob
[16:12:31] <false8> There is no centre tap then, the N stops at the main switch
[16:12:38] <false8> n=neutral
[16:12:51] <false8> 6 wires, 3 in 3 out
[16:12:53] <rob_h> missed anything good around here latly? been to bussy making chips :)
[16:12:54] <joebog> so a star winding is three coils with all the beginnings connected together and its 0 VAC
[16:13:26] <false8> that would be correct :P
[16:13:40] <joebog> so its delta that means 3 coils with ends connected to beginnings
[16:14:21] <joebog> so you 0 volts is the neutral at mains power level ?
[16:14:42] <joebog> at the power point
[16:14:49] <joebog> where there is 4 wires available
[16:14:57] <joebog> 3 phases and a zero
[16:15:10] <joebog> which in australia is connected to ground earth
[16:16:12] <joebog> so between the positive and negative you have two capacitors connected in series
[16:16:35] <joebog> with the centre connection of the capacitors going to th zero at the power point ?
[16:16:58] <false8> Hang on, I'll have to look agian
[16:17:14] <joebog> you have a circuit of the power suppkly ?
[16:17:55] <false8> No, but I could draw one
[16:18:30] <joebog> please do :)
[16:18:47] <joebog> do we have PM enabled on this channel ?
[16:18:59] <joebog> PM = personal message
[16:19:09] <false8> i dont know
[16:19:22] <joebog> I dont think it is
[16:19:45] <joebog> nope only query and whois
[16:19:55] <joebog> OK
[16:20:25] <joebog> you will have to post it on tinypic
[16:22:10] <joebog> wow we have flooded this channel
[16:22:15] <joebog> sorryu guys :(
[16:22:43] <joebog> and back to rob_h nope I dont think you have
[16:23:23] <joebog> just my ramblings on power supplies
[16:39:01] <false8> http://tinypic.com/r/331evdd/5 very simple schematic, but that's about it :P
[16:40:10] <false8> The psu is nothing more than a transformer and a rectifier, the gd guy told me I didn't need a cap because the 3ph rectified would produce little ripple, and the drive is designed to cope with 50% ripple
[16:40:29] <joebog> you need a centre tap !!
[16:40:38] <false8> to pe
[16:40:44] <joebog> yes
[16:41:10] <joebog> what voltage do you measure with DMM beteen positive and negative ?
[16:41:20] <false8> the is one, the transformer chassis is connected to the 0v terminal and the chassis is connected to PE
[16:41:20] <joebog> it "should" be 240 volts
[16:42:15] <false8> my dmm reads about 120 volts, the transformer output is 90VAC so thats correct no?
[16:42:43] <joebog> 90 *1.414
[16:43:12] <joebog> round down to 1.4 to make it easy
[16:43:48] <joebog> what amps do you expect to take from the supply ?
[16:44:22] <andypugh> In the UK three-phase Neutral is _not_ connected to Ground.
[16:44:23] <false8> 12.8amps is the stall current for the servo
[16:44:38] <false8> the transformer are the orignal ones
[16:45:12] <joebog> thanks andy
[16:45:30] <andypugh> I am just saying that you probably don't want to be connecting the incoming 3-phase neutral to the machine case...
[16:45:59] <joebog> what I dont understand is how false expects to get 120 volts positive and negative ( which equals 240 volts) from that supply ?
[16:46:31] <joebog> PLUS the impedance will be "mostly" goverend by the forward resistance of the bridge
[16:46:52] <false8> Im not expecting to get 240 volts, I'm expecting to get about 120vdc, or am I misunderstanding you?
[16:46:52] <joebog> you are probably correct andy
[16:47:11] <joebog> no false what you are getting is 120 volts
[16:47:44] <joebog> that is correct for your power supply
[16:48:43] <joebog> andy in aus we call that the MEN system or main earth neutral its what Im used to so sorry for the confusion
[16:49:14] <false8> andypugh: the mains neutral stops at the switch, it's not used.
[16:49:16] <joebog> so your PE is connected to a stake driven into the ground ?
[16:49:48] <false8> I would think so.
[16:50:38] <andypugh> Either an earth rod, or the sheathing if the incoming cable, or to a dedicated earth cable in the incoming bundle...
[16:50:53] <joebog> OK
[16:51:09] <joebog> not very low impedance safety earh !! is it !!
[16:51:51] <andypugh> There are at least 5 ways to do it;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system
[16:51:55] <joebog> false8 I would be sticking a whacking great cap across that supply !!!
[16:52:31] <joebog> say 20,000 uF at say 150 volts rated ( minimum) electrolytic
[16:52:39] <false8> Yeah, that was my first thought, but the guy at GD told me 1000uf would be enough, or none even
[16:53:50] <false8> Because of the low ripple, and the way the drive works it wouldn't matter, but will it help reduce the ringing to??
[16:54:06] <joebog> sure will
[16:54:49] <joebog> there are plenty of Rodestein electrolytics available on ebay
[16:55:03] <joebog> for very cheap, and they are excellent quality
[16:57:22] <false8> Problem will be transit time, but I will look for them
[16:58:22] <joebog> by transit time you mean for the caps to arrive
[16:58:33] <joebog> very interesting read andy
[16:59:02] <joebog> I didnt know that stuff, but I guess its because england (GB) is so small it works
[16:59:25] <joebog> here we send 1 million volts from state to state which can be several thousand miles
[16:59:39] <joebog> the impedance of the safety earth would be woeful
[16:59:46] <false8> yes
[17:00:21] <joebog> false8 you can probably buy them where you live today, BUT they will cost a small fortune
[17:05:17] <false8> I can get 2000uf 450vdc @ E7.85 a piece,
[17:05:44] <joebog> you need at LEAST 10 !!!! thats 78 euro !!!
[17:06:20] <false8> Yeah well, if that's what it takes
[17:07:01] <joebog> and 450 volts is probably too high electrolytic caps work best at closde to their rated voltage
[17:07:34] <joebog> so if you measure 120 volts or so I would be looking for 140 or 150 volt caps
[17:07:35] <false8> Didn't know that
[17:07:48] <joebog> and they SHOULD be screw terminal not wire ended
[17:08:22] <joebog> electrolytics are called ( self healing" caps, BUT only if they are operated correctly
[17:09:03] <joebog> so forv 120 volts it "should" be about 150 volts
[17:09:56] <false8> I don't think they have those with wires connected do they?
[17:09:59] <false8> Why?
[17:10:25] <joebog> also the wire from the rectifier to the caps should be LARGE and as short as practical
[17:10:54] <false8> I can install it right after the rectifier
[17:10:59] <joebog> some cheap asian caps I have seen with wire ends at that rating !!
[17:11:14] <false8> I had some planned originally so there is a spot reserved for them
[17:11:30] <joebog> also buy a ceramic cap of say 2000 pF rated say 600 volts
[17:11:40] <joebog> that will remove high frequency noise
[17:11:52] <joebog> cost is very small
[17:11:52] <joebog> about 1$
[17:12:15] <false8> I think I have some somewhere
[17:12:25] <joebog> excellent
[17:12:57] <joebog> if you wind out the horizontal frequency on your CRO it will show the diodes switching on and off
[17:13:12] <joebog> the 2000 pF will romove the switching transients
[17:13:18] <false8> Ok
[17:14:07] <false8> well if this removes the ringing, I can finally move on, this is really interfering with the step pulses to the drives :P
[17:14:11] <joebog> silver mica is the best BUT may be more expensive
[17:14:41] <joebog> it will not remove it completely, but I bet about 90% will dissappear
[17:14:59] <false8> because its also on the outputs of my mesa equiment
[17:15:16] <joebog> if you are really having troubles after that, you can make it CLC filter
[17:15:27] <joebog> then you will have no noise or ringing at all
[17:15:53] <JesusAlos> gn8
[17:15:54] <joebog> to do that you will need that big choke you mentioned connected to the caps you have fitted
[17:16:02] <false8> cap>choke>cap?
[17:16:16] <joebog> then add the same number and type of cap after the choke
[17:16:20] <joebog> yep cap-choke-cap
[17:17:21] <false8> Ok, i'll keep that in mind. I asked the gd guy for advise on this and he said it would be alright, so I was thinking I was doing something very wrong
[17:17:29] <joebog> the rough rule of thumb for cap size is 2000 uF per amp of current required
[17:17:37] <joebog> so you said 6.8 amps
[17:17:42] <joebog> call it seven
[17:17:56] <joebog> seven *2000 = 14,000 uF
[17:18:24] <false8> more like 12.8amps, but thats stall current
[17:19:04] <joebog> OK so running current in a servo is "usually" close to stall so lets call it 10 amps
[17:19:18] <joebog> 10*2000 = 20,000 uF
[17:19:19] <false8> so 20kug
[17:19:26] <joebog> :)
[17:20:03] <false8> originally calculated 15000uf I think, with some formula from the www
[17:20:27] <joebog> yep
[17:20:35] <joebog> thats as a minimum
[17:20:44] <joebog> ther is no "real rule"
[17:21:00] <false8> rule + gut
[17:21:17] <false8> squared
[17:21:34] <joebog> BUT when you add a cap to a rectifying system the DC current you have to multiply by .62 ac amps from the transformer
[17:22:10] <joebog> so if your transformer is rated at 10 amps the available DC current available is 6.2 amps!!!
[17:22:29] <joebog> thats because the transformer also has to charge the caps as well as drive the load
[17:22:48] <joebog> BUT!! as you are using switchmode drives that is not so critical
[17:22:54] <false8> the transformers are rated 2.5kva
[17:23:09] <false8> one for the z axis, and one for the x and y axis
[17:23:29] <false8> the z is a 1600w and the x and y are 800w
[17:23:37] <joebog> you have 3 such power supplies ?
[17:23:45] <joebog> ahh
[17:23:45] <joebog> OK
[17:24:28] <false8> That's the way it was originally done, and they are real transformer (no auto that is), so that's a safety plus
[17:26:18] <joebog> excellent
[17:26:33] <joebog> auto transformer is much smaller!!
[17:26:41] <false8> yes and cheaper to :P
[17:26:45] <joebog> and of course cheaper to make BUT are not safe
[17:27:01] <joebog> they are illegal in australia now
[17:27:12] <false8> As they should be
[17:27:30] <false8> A danger to society they are :P
[17:27:44] <joebog> I have spent many years designing and making transformers
[17:27:57] <false8> The big ones?
[17:28:00] <joebog> mostly for valve audio :)
[17:28:13] <joebog> about 1000 watts for myself
[17:28:19] <false8> Ah, now that's beautiful technology
[17:28:31] <joebog> but 25KVA for large SCADA systems I used to design and make
[17:28:33] <false8> I have a Philips Bi-amply I revised
[17:28:52] <false8> Sounds like nothing else :P
[17:29:07] <joebog> I have all valve audio, but its all my design and build
[17:29:21] <joebog> I even folded the 1.6mm steel chassis and welde it
[17:29:34] <false8> I want to get into that some day, but first I need to get this mill on the road
[17:29:47] <joebog> and I have 1968 model Tannoy true dual concentric speakers :)
[17:30:00] <joebog> 98 dB/watt efficiency
[17:30:08] <joebog> so my amp is only 30 watts RMS
[17:30:18] <joebog> 807,s connected in triode mode :D
[17:30:38] <joebog> 9 section OPT's
[17:30:48] <joebog> dual toroid power supplies
[17:31:10] <joebog> weighs about 40 kilograms :D
[17:31:29] <false8> google tells me that's all very good :P
[17:31:32] <false8> 40kg!!
[17:31:58] <false8> never heard of tannoi
[17:32:00] <false8> y
[17:32:05] <false8> looks beautifull
[17:32:06] <joebog> heh heh heh the cores for my OPT,s are rated 1000 watts for mains power supply
[17:32:20] <joebog> Tannoy is superb english speaker
[17:32:30] <joebog> google tannoy westminster royal
[17:32:48] <joebog> about 50,000 euro !!!!!
[17:33:04] <false8> :$
[17:33:07] <joebog> boxes are bigger than refridgerator!!!
[17:33:19] <joebog> yep $ i mean
[17:33:25] <joebog> about 20,000 euro
[17:33:39] <joebog> 110 dB/watt !!!
[17:33:50] <joebog> you only need two watts amplifier :)
[17:34:03] <false8> In a perfect world
[17:34:25] <joebog> well you will end up like me !!!! VERY deaf :D
[17:34:37] <false8> And very statified
[17:34:45] <joebog> yep
[17:35:21] <false8> I'm off to bed, will go and buy some caps tommorrow. Thanks for your help!!
[17:35:57] <joebog> anytime :)
[17:36:00] <joebog> sleep well
[17:38:18] <tjtr33> "Its the Vogon captain making an announcement on the Tannoy" ( <-- when i first heard of Tannoy's)
[17:39:52] <joebog> you dont like the sound ??
[17:40:00] <joebog> especially dual concentrics
[17:41:12] <joebog> I only have lil baby Tannoys, but sound when coupled to valve amp is superb !!
[17:41:52] <joebog> 315 series monitor gold
[17:42:10] <joebog> ohh and I dont have any seedie sound
[17:42:16] <tjtr33> ^^ quote from Htchiker Guide to the galaxy was not a criticism of the brand at all
[17:42:18] <joebog> ALL my sound is on vinyl
[17:42:32] <joebog> ohh I see
[17:42:33] <joebog> sorry :)
[17:42:58] <joebog> Tannoy is like Unix or Linux now :D the BEST
[17:43:31] <joebog> BUT british films from way back had Tannoy PA horns always mounted at air force bases and on warships
[17:46:08] <joebog> anyway Im out, thanks again for alla yas help
[18:37:20] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[18:40:44] <Tom_itx> goodnight JT-Shop
[18:40:57] <Tom_itx> btw, how's the gcode generator coming along?
[19:26:51] <Tom_L> possible new position sensor:
http://www.mouser.com/new/Texas-Instruments/ti-ldc1000-data-converter/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=september2013&utm_campaign=cm-enews-general&utm_content=featuredlm
[19:27:25] <Tom_L> inductance to digital converter
[19:27:54] <jdh> an uncased prox switch?
[19:30:18] <Tom_L> possibly a spindle encoder?
[19:30:27] <Tom_L> etc
[20:20:14] <andypugh> It appears to need a coil, and seems to require an SPI interface for setup.
[20:20:28] <Jymmm> http://www.businessinsider.com/cop-tickets-blackhawk-pilot-2013-9
[20:29:58] <archivist_> it will be ok for a paint/coating/anodizing thickness meter
[20:34:36] <andypugh> Two of them at 90 degrees and an eccentric ring should give a decent absolute encoder.
[20:35:03] <andypugh> Like a cheap resolver.
[20:35:19] <andypugh> Time to snooze.