#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-09-23

[01:14:59] <MacGalempsy> hello
[01:19:43] <MacGalempsy> anyone around ever use the bolton tools cnc?
[01:43:37] <archivist_> never heard of it, url?
[01:50:44] <archivist_> well their ebay advert shows a few errors that implies the advert is chinglish and not from a supposed USA dealer
[01:54:28] <archivist_> there have been other users of chines sourced mill where the column squareness has not been very good
[01:56:52] <archivist_> take a traming indicator to test one before you buy at that price http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/spindle-tram-indicators-197809/
[04:39:56] <MacGalempsy> thanks for the info. a couple of forums stated good luck with their lathes
[04:59:53] <archivist_herron> all depends on the type of work too
[06:57:53] <mrsun_> yeey my router just cut its first thing.. a little tear in my eye as my baby is growing up =)
[07:00:22] <archivist_herron> aw
[07:02:03] <archivist_herron> and pictures or it didnt happen :)
[07:03:16] <jthornton> lol
[07:05:34] <Jymmm> mrsun_: CNCing an onion doens't count and the cause of you crying like a baby!
[07:06:04] <mrsun_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1174540_10151863985438648_1859915952_n.jpg its first cut !
[07:06:09] <mrsun_> if the link works =)
[07:06:13] <mrsun_> i missed the zeroing some :P
[07:06:30] <Jymmm> mrsun_: very cool =)
[07:06:37] <mrsun_> gah have no picture of the machine in all its glory :/
[07:06:58] <mrsun_> gonna start working on how to protect the ballscrews etc from dust =)
[07:07:26] <Jymmm> mrsun_: wipers
[07:07:39] <mrsun_> https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/555862_10151862347018648_1731546776_n.jpg Z axis got a bit brutal
[07:07:52] <mrsun_> Jymmm, doe that work for mdf dust etc? :)
[07:08:06] <Jymmm> mrsun_: Eh, kinda =)
[07:08:30] <Jymmm> mrsun_: Nothing is going to be 100% grease+dust proof
[07:08:45] <mrsun_> i was thinking some kind of bellows or something
[07:09:03] <Jymmm> mrsun_: There is a DIY bellows out there
[07:09:14] <mrsun_> for 1.5 meters of ballscrew? :)
[07:09:25] <Jymmm> mrsun_: as long as you want it
[07:09:41] <mrsun_> for round stuff? :)
[07:09:55] <mrsun_> ive seen the ones for protecting ways of mills etc but
[07:10:02] <Jymmm> http://www.franksworkshop.com.au/CNC/Bellows/Bellows.htm
[07:10:20] <Jymmm> theres even a calculator
[07:10:49] <mrsun_> yes but i want round ones :P
[07:10:53] <mrsun_> thats a rectangular :P
[07:11:09] <mrsun_> i guess one could make em square also
[07:11:18] <Jymmm> mrsun_: shopvac hose, split loom tubing
[07:11:18] <mrsun_> as the shape shouldnt matter much =)
[07:11:38] <mrsun_> Jymmm, has to be compressable =)
[07:11:54] <Jymmm> mrsun_: You want cheese with that whine?
[07:12:00] <mrsun_> :P
[07:12:04] <mrsun_> yeah sure =)
[07:12:24] <Jymmm> mrsun_: fuck off and go do your own damn googling then =)
[07:12:54] <mrsun_> oh, agressive much today? :P
[07:13:25] <Jymmm> mrsun_: Hey, you said you wanted cheese, just because you dont care for the flavor doens't matter =)
[07:14:09] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQAM4i33OI
[07:14:10] <Tecan> (taQAM4i33OI) "Bellow Folding" by "jeckert12" is "Howto" - Length: 0:06:08
[07:33:02] <Jymmm> Rather cheap PCB service $45 for 1 and $75 for 10 on a 2x4" http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml
[07:55:33] <jdh> last (and only) time I ordered parts from Futurlec, it took 6weeks to get them. They ship from .au or something
[07:55:56] <Jymmm> ah
[07:56:06] <Jymmm> jdh: ETA?
[07:56:36] <Jymmm> They have some REALLY cheap parts that I dont mind waiting for.
[07:56:58] <jdh> yeah. I thought there were lots of cheap(er) PCB places.
[07:57:43] <Jymmm> they have some oddball parts that I just can't get/find elsewhere
[08:00:07] <Jymmm> jdh: the RJ45 as example: http://www.futurlec.com/Computer_Adapters.shtml#RJ45_ADAPTER
[08:02:57] <jdh> nice price, but not really oddball or hard to find.
[08:03:15] <Jymmm> jdh: RJ45 to screw terminals?
[08:03:25] <jdh> yeah
[08:03:33] <Jymmm> jdh: I've never seen them
[08:03:40] <jdh> mouser
[08:03:45] <Jymmm> ah
[08:04:32] <jdh> sparkfun sells breakouts for lots of things, but not pre-assembled.
[08:04:50] <Jymmm> $6 to $30
[08:22:25] <jthornton> anyone want to test out my mill g code generator? http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/files/mill.zip
[08:37:01] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg6w2Gmx-g
[08:37:02] <Tecan> (vAg6w2Gmx-g) "CoreXY LinuxCNC" by "Nick Drobchenko" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:32
[08:40:36] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5okhhgtIUPo
[08:40:38] <Tecan> (5okhhgtIUPo) "DIY MINI CNC Machine: Part 10 - Final Setup + EMC2 Control" by "Richard Harris" is "Tech" - Length: 0:02:29
[09:06:14] <JT-Shop> /me can't look at videos... no bandwith left
[09:06:34] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: are you using Ubuntu 10.04?
[09:07:01] <skunkworks> not at the moment.. (I don't have a machine up here with it on)
[09:07:25] <skunkworks> the K&T and a few other machines are still running 10.04 but my daily user is 12.04
[09:07:51] <JT-Shop> I wonder if my python mill g code thing runs on 12.04?
[09:44:48] <archivist_> grmbl didnt win 221284141570
[09:52:16] <JesusAlos> hi
[09:53:05] <JesusAlos> have a problem with a machine with 7i77 card and 5i25
[09:54:01] <JesusAlos> it seems like linuxcnc don't connect with 7i77
[09:55:09] <JT-Shop> do you have field power on?
[09:57:11] <pcw_home> You should have 2 yellow LEDs on the top edge of the 7I77 illuminated
[09:57:19] <JesusAlos> yes
[09:57:24] <pcw_home> (at the minimum)
[09:57:38] <JesusAlos> I have 4 yelow led and one red
[09:57:48] <JesusAlos> I think the red must be green
[09:57:50] <JesusAlos> no?
[09:58:02] <pcw_home> OK Yes once running
[09:59:08] <JesusAlos> I don't know wy don't communicate 5i25 with 7i77
[09:59:14] <JesusAlos> can I do eny test?
[09:59:46] <pcw_home> was this a running system that just stopped?
[10:00:04] <pcw_home> or have there been any changes made recently
[10:01:08] <JesusAlos> I don't know if the user machine change enything
[10:01:12] <JesusAlos> he say not
[10:01:14] <JesusAlos> http://pastebin.com/kz4SS0ca
[10:01:39] <JesusAlos> the machine is runnink ok about 9 month
[10:02:32] <pcw_home> what error message do you get from linuxcnc?
[10:05:16] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/271706
[10:05:26] <JesusAlos> I go to see the error
[10:06:48] <pcw_home> Its not possible to tell much from the red LED because that may just mean linuxcnc did not start
[10:11:23] <JesusAlos> ok
[10:11:33] <JesusAlos> this is strenge. Now run ok
[10:11:45] <JesusAlos> I don't do nothing
[10:13:03] <archivist_> check connectors and cables etc
[10:14:04] <pcw_home> its important to save the linuxcnc error because not all errors are logged in the kernal log (dmesg)
[10:15:27] <JesusAlos> Ok. Thank
[10:15:47] <JesusAlos> The mesanet electronic is good, no?
[10:16:05] <JesusAlos> is tested and good result for long time?
[10:16:15] <JesusAlos> or is on development?
[10:16:16] <jdh> mesa love you long time
[10:18:33] <JT-Shop> good yes
[10:19:38] <pcw_home> I dont think I know of any hardware problems with the 7I77
[10:19:39] <pcw_home> you may want to upgrade the 7I77s firmware
[10:20:09] <pcw_home> there are some know firmware bugs :-(
[10:21:23] <pcw_home> also if you upgrade the 5I25 to the latest firmware, the latest 5I25
[10:21:24] <pcw_home> sserial firmware is more tolerant of errors encountered during startup
[10:24:54] <JesusAlos> I don't update the firmaware
[10:25:11] <JesusAlos> bub until now the machine don't do eny problem
[10:26:11] <JesusAlos> I buy the electronica in Ganuary
[10:26:38] <JesusAlos> January
[10:26:45] <JesusAlos> this year
[10:31:00] <pcw_home> Without knowing why linuxcnc did not start its hard to tell whats going on
[10:31:04] <JesusAlos> I say it fot the firmware revision
[10:32:45] <JesusAlos> the nex time I save the error
[10:45:09] <mrsun_> is there any good software to "nest" gcode ? if i have some gcode and i want to cut several parts with offsets =)
[10:45:20] <mrsun_> sure i guess one could do it by calls etc in linuxcnc
[10:50:48] <ReadError> mrsun_ cambam i think lets you import gcode
[10:50:52] <ReadError> and lay it out
[10:51:03] <mrsun_> but i do not have cambam and it also costs? :)
[10:56:25] <archivist_> that would be a sensible job for openscam
[10:58:53] <archivist_> sure slow server there today
[11:17:31] <JT-Shop> mrsun_: G54 etc
[11:20:55] <pcw_home> JT-Shop your thread calculator runs on Ubuntu 12.04
[11:20:57] <pcw_home> (since its all straight python it should run on anything)
[11:20:58] <pcw_home> I'm running python2.7, it might be worth trying on python3.x
[11:24:15] <JT-Shop> can you run python 3.x on 10.04?
[11:24:22] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: thanks for trying it
[11:24:56] <JT-Shop> looks like Python 2.6.5 on 10.04
[11:25:15] <jdh> I tried it on my winbox, it wasn't happy.
[11:25:38] <JT-Shop> did it complain about anything specific?
[11:25:46] <pcw_home> which python on windows?
[11:26:10] <jdh> one complained about lack of gtk, but I have gtk
[11:26:17] <jdh> the other just exited
[11:26:29] <JesusAlos> by
[11:29:20] <JT-Shop> ok, I see I left an old program in that directory
[11:29:33] <JT-Shop> mill.py is the one I'm working on
[11:32:48] <JT-Shop> looks like the wondoze version of python don't like with open(...
[11:34:44] <pcw_home> you can install whatever version of python you like on windows
[11:35:33] <pcw_home> python --version
[11:35:44] <pcw_home> will tell you what you have
[11:38:35] <JT-Shop> I have 2.5 on this box and it uses Idle
[11:47:46] <jdh> I have 2.5 with idle and 2.6 with <something other than idle>
[11:49:32] <archivist_> I am just idle
[11:57:50] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:25:02] <IchGuckLive> hi ries
[12:25:24] <ries_nicked> Hey IchGuckLive
[12:25:25] <ries_nicked> How are you doing?
[12:25:39] <kengu> hellou
[12:25:39] <IchGuckLive> fine its nice weather here in germany
[12:30:47] <ries> IchGuckLive: good good, untill it winter :D
[12:30:55] <ries> here it's always teh same...
[12:30:59] <ries> shirt on, window open :)
[12:31:45] <micges> ries: where is 'here'?
[12:33:04] <IchGuckLive> ries: no winter till ther beer flow in munich is over
[12:35:33] <ries> micges: Ecuador
[12:36:01] <ries> IchGuckLive: :)
[12:42:54] <micges> ries: niiiice
[12:49:21] <jdh> http://www.pocketnc.com/
[12:53:03] <archivist_> hmm I hope that gets bolted to something to stop the rear arm bending
[12:54:34] <jdh> writing code for it looks painful.
[12:56:34] <skunkworks> kins would help
[12:56:51] <archivist_> no worse than writing for mine
[12:59:34] <archivist_> I wonder if that trunnion design is belt drive from the stepper...
[13:02:47] <IchGuckLive> belt is horror if more then 100 inch
[13:06:52] <andypugh> Looks like they are going for TinyG, I think they missed a trick there.
[13:07:27] <IchGuckLive> my little one is better and will stand the hard education as proved every day
[13:08:13] <pcw_home> but they can run theirs from a cell phone
[13:08:43] <IchGuckLive> oh well nice to construct and CAD/Cam on cellphone
[13:08:54] <IchGuckLive> also to control the stuff
[13:09:15] <IchGuckLive> easy to press Start RUN by whatever you will
[13:09:23] <andypugh> Yeah, because controlling a CNC machine from a cellphone is a _really_ useful feature...
[13:10:01] <IchGuckLive> i will do a Run button on a elphant Stand if it is a good trick in the X-mas show
[13:10:17] <IchGuckLive> what a crap
[13:10:51] <archivist_> the resonance of the trunnion drive belts with the cutting forces will give the designer a nasty shock I think
[13:11:03] <IchGuckLive> OH you can do me a favor as always once a year to get more international Hits !!!
[13:11:49] <IchGuckLive> please go to http://www.landauer-weihnachtscircus.de/ and DOUBLE hit the FOTO al,pst bottom right Elephant
[13:12:07] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive so your students have made all possible mistakes with your mini-mill?
[13:12:43] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: yes they are always trying to drill the X-table
[13:12:55] <IchGuckLive> in all kind of speeds
[13:13:30] <IchGuckLive> some try to get a differnet drill angel then G83 in Z
[13:13:46] <pcw_home> Reminds me of the mill vises that are about 1/2 gone
[13:14:01] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:14:22] <IchGuckLive> as students worldwide are shinie and not as vise as they shoudt
[13:15:15] <andypugh> I wonder if you could kill the resonance by having two belts, both the same ratio, but slightly different pitch. (T5 and XL (5.08mm) for example.
[13:16:33] <IchGuckLive> T5 gives you a good ratio on the Steppers
[13:16:39] <andypugh> pcw_home: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/33bwb52jgp617ui/3UkfMs5opA#lh:null-drill15.jpg
[13:16:40] <archivist_> I am also thinking the designer may be suffering from stepper microstep delusions
[13:16:42] <IchGuckLive> Z12 Z24 Z48
[13:17:27] <andypugh> archivist_: They are only claiming half a thou.
[13:17:30] <pcw_home> a few more holes and you have a breakaway
[13:18:13] <archivist_> andypugh, yes as if half step is exactly a half step :)
[13:18:22] <andypugh> It belongs to a friend, that one. I can only assume that someone had a fundamental misunderstanding of how to use a drill press.
[13:18:35] <IchGuckLive> someone shoudt come up with a already sturtup table with a main circle
[13:19:13] <andypugh> archivist_: It's exactly one step with a 2.5mm pitch screw.
[13:21:27] <andypugh> Mad Idea: Feed ASCII art to True-Type Tracer.
[13:21:33] <IchGuckLive> T5xZ48=240mm=U=2400Step/U Microstepping at 0.1mm Plasma at 400Steps/U = 6:1 Ratio
[13:22:22] <IchGuckLive> T5xZ24 120mm U 1200Steps
[13:22:33] <IchGuckLive> Ratio 3:1 on step 400
[13:22:46] <IchGuckLive> this are very nice numbers
[13:23:19] <IchGuckLive> for Europeans of cause
[13:23:24] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[13:24:37] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: the trick on the educations is to set software ends towards no hit at all
[13:27:22] <IchGuckLive> welcome afiber__ fiber is hard to mill O.O
[13:28:03] <IchGuckLive> sirdancealot: is dancing alot but not on mondays he is tirerd
[13:28:28] <IchGuckLive> as i am here 2 so good by for today
[14:35:06] <saki`> hey all
[14:35:43] <saki`> is there any IRC channel where people discuss CNC builds, similar to the reprap channel?
[14:36:45] <andypugh> saki`: To an extent, here.
[14:36:46] <archivist_> they often get discussed in here, we may laugh if you want to control it with other than linuxcnc
[14:38:28] <saki`> well i'm just trying to figure out what to do right now
[14:38:42] <saki`> i imagine software will come in a bit after i finish building it
[14:38:43] <saki`> :P
[14:38:45] <archivist_> I started with some scrap
[14:39:48] <saki`> i want to build one to cut cardboard with, essentially to build these: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4764
[14:41:11] <andypugh> What kind of cutter is used?
[14:41:42] <archivist_> laser?
[14:42:09] <saki`> well the same guy has an openscad script
[14:42:24] <saki`> that edits the BOM for the buildlog 2.x cnc
[14:42:38] <saki`> to be able to cut upto 12" x 24"
[14:42:54] <saki`> which is basically the size of each cardboard panel
[14:43:19] <saki`> so i need anything really that would cut 12" x 24" cardboard
[14:43:20] <jdh> what kind of cutter will you use?
[14:43:32] <saki`> don't really care if its laser or anything else
[14:43:38] <saki`> if it works then i'm okay with it
[14:45:18] <saki`> cheap and reliable is all i really need i suppose
[14:45:53] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/8pzcCF0DFmE
[14:45:54] <Tecan> (8pzcCF0DFmE) "Trumpf Punching Technology Video" by "MidAtlanticMachinery" is "Tech" - Length: 0:04:32
[14:47:22] <archivist_> I wonder if there is a wire type file that could be used
[14:48:20] <saki`> i was wondering the same actually
[14:48:31] <saki`> no idea what it would even be called
[14:48:34] <saki`> but still
[14:50:20] <archivist_> card just bends out the way for me
[14:50:54] <saki`> AH
[14:50:56] <saki`> found something
[14:51:19] <saki`> ugh
[14:51:33] <saki`> google needs to put in some sort of "copy link" thing
[14:51:54] <saki`> http://donektools.com/
[14:52:00] <saki`> donek drag knife
[14:52:28] <jdh> I think a tangential knife woudl be better for cardboard?
[14:52:34] <saki`> says here it's basically to cut anything that you would cut with a utility knife, except a cnc
[14:52:39] <saki`> via*
[14:54:22] <jdh> they claim 1/8" radius which seems unlikely given the angle of the blade.
[14:54:40] <archivist_> that double layer card may not be drag knife friendly
[14:54:51] <saki`> ah
[14:55:01] <andypugh> saki`: What can you cut the card by hand with?
[14:55:02] <saki`> fiberboard would snag, huh?
[14:55:30] <saki`> well the guy says you can use a box cutter/exacto if you had to cut it by hand
[14:55:42] <archivist_> what about those cutters that cloth gets cut up by
[14:56:14] <andypugh> Actually that utility drag knive will probably work, I am guessing you can push pretty hard with a router.
[14:57:04] <andypugh> But I would be looking at an actively-steered blade in a purpose-built machine.
[14:57:28] <jdh> like say... a tangential knife.
[14:57:39] <andypugh> (Thinks: I should add a direction-of-travel pin to augment the velocity pins)
[14:57:51] <saki`> woosh
[14:58:01] <saki`> <--- woosh*
[14:58:02] <andypugh> jdh: Yes, exactly, I was just trying to clarify what that means.
[14:58:27] <saki`> so a blade that you can turn while moving
[14:58:31] <saki`> is what you mean?
[14:58:41] <saki`> that travels at a tangent to the curve its cutting?
[14:59:01] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/aY3h352Lhn4
[14:59:02] <Tecan> (aY3h352Lhn4) "CNC tangential cutting Cardboard with stepper motor rotating knife" by "rockcliffcnc" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:53
[14:59:51] <saki`> i guess i should be asking whether this is at all achievable in 500 usd or so?
[15:00:00] <saki`> given that i have access to tools and the like
[15:00:31] <jdh> certainly rules out the laser option.
[15:01:11] <saki`> yeah that was coming out to 600 usd
[15:01:11] <archivist_> this is a laser option http://www.goldenlaser.cc/Product/Printingpackaging_673_239.html
[15:01:55] <andypugh> This is where we will say "maybe not" and the Mach3 guys will say "of course, and you should be done in a week". But they would be wrong. (I have seen too many folk diving in to a bigger project than they expected after glib statements on CNC zone etc)
[15:01:57] <saki`> there are cheaper laser cutters out there, the problem is the work area, 12" by 24" is slightly above what most people offer
[15:02:17] <jdh> the cheaper ones are more like 8x10
[15:02:57] <archivist_> cloth cutter http://pimg.esuppliersindia.com/00256503/b/0/Talking-Cloth-Cutting-Machines.jpg on a router ?
[15:03:59] <archivist_> could one home brew that cheaply
[15:09:00] <saki`> hmmm
[15:09:13] <saki`> http://donektools.com/creasing-attachment/
[15:09:23] <andypugh> I think that relies on fabric being happy to move out of the way after the cut.
[15:09:51] <saki`> maybe i could use the cnc to crease it accurately then cut it by hand
[15:10:14] <archivist_> that same reason makes me think a drag knife will be a fight too
[15:10:15] <jdh> how about a hot wire cutter and use foam
[15:10:46] <archivist_> even more sensible
[15:10:47] <saki`> foam's expensive in the density/beadsize you'd have to use.
[15:11:16] <saki`> and i can't source large enough blocks locally
[15:11:26] <saki`> making it even more expensive
[15:11:27] <andypugh> archivist_: That youtube video seemed to show that a knife would work, but the fabric cutters also have the support bar to fit through.
[15:11:32] <saki`> though that would be ideal
[15:12:01] <andypugh> Waterjet is out, anyway.
[15:12:08] <jdh> heh
[15:12:23] <archivist_> sandblast jet :)
[15:12:37] <saki`> lol would stitching a metal wire and then pulling it work? :D :P
[15:12:57] <jdh> cnc sewing machine, just perf the cardboard
[15:13:10] <saki`> ...
[15:13:11] <andypugh> Did you see the Trumpf punch?
[15:13:18] <saki`> yeah i did man
[15:13:20] <andypugh> I was entirely joking.
[15:13:26] <saki`> oh okay
[15:13:28] <saki`> cool
[15:13:33] <andypugh> (sorry, wasn't entirely joking)
[15:13:41] <saki`> so confused
[15:13:53] <saki`> but the cnc sewing thing doesn't sound like a bad idea
[15:14:11] <andypugh> With a punch running up and down pretty fast and a fixed die under the table you could probably do what you want.
[15:14:14] <jdh> I assume your product will be something other than surfboards?
[15:14:28] <saki`> if i can perforate it, even if the edges are slightly ragged i can shave it down
[15:14:36] <saki`> no
[15:14:39] <saki`> it's surfboards
[15:14:47] <saki`> well eventually waveskies
[15:14:50] <saki`> skis*
[15:14:56] <jdh> never heard of those.
[15:15:04] <saki`> which are sort of in between surfboards and kayaks
[15:15:38] <archivist_> erm...cardboard and water...I though that was a bad idea :)
[15:15:54] <saki`> https://www.google.com.pk/search?q=waveski&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=zZ1AUpTOM-eU4ATPhoHADw&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=959&dpr=1
[15:16:00] <saki`> well the inside is cardboard
[15:16:16] <saki`> followed by layers of fiberglass and epoxy
[15:16:27] <jdh> everyone here seems to use foam.
[15:16:38] <saki`> yeah that's pretty standard
[15:16:46] <saki`> it's just i can't source it here
[15:17:04] <saki`> and i need to knock the price down by a large chunk
[15:18:56] <saki`> so people here can afford it
[15:19:08] <archivist_> but as the cost includes part of your machine... a wire cutter is pretty cheap to make
[15:19:09] <jdh> where is here?
[15:19:14] <saki`> pakistan
[15:19:32] <saki`> hella cheap
[15:19:33] <jdh> board shapers here do it all by hand
[15:19:53] <saki`> but again, i've looked up and down the country, i can't find blocks in large enough sizes to shape
[15:20:14] <saki`> not in the beadsize that you need anyway
[15:20:26] <archivist_> sheet ?
[15:21:28] <DaViruz> anyone have experience with the ebay $600 40W cnc laser cutters?
[15:22:06] <jdh> DaViruz: there is a web site that discusses them, and several threads that cover them exhaustively on cnczone and others.
[15:22:39] <DaViruz> i tried to find something on cnczone but wasn't having much luck, but i'll keep trying then
[15:22:45] <archivist_> seen a user in ##electronics too
[15:23:07] <jdh> they have no z and they only work with the included crappy software.
[15:23:35] <DaViruz> don't mind missing z, but i do mind crappy software..
[15:23:46] <jdh> need another $500ish in hardware for a dsp board and controllers to work with normal software
[15:24:21] <DaViruz> just noticed that shipping was $500 also
[15:24:28] <DaViruz> still pretty damn cheap though
[15:24:47] <jdh> you can get a 40w in the US for like $650 + $120 shipping
[15:25:06] <DaViruz> i'm in sweden though
[15:25:07] <saki`> large sheets would still cost more than cardboard really.
[15:25:32] <jdh> that might make shipping more :)
[15:26:10] <jdh> a us$1800 40w laser seems to be actually useful
[15:26:16] <jdh> same tube/ps
[15:26:35] <DaViruz> closing threads seem to be the new fad och cnczone
[15:26:56] <DaViruz> i guess i don't care but it's hard to see the topics due to clutter..
[15:27:08] <saki`> i can't imagine any binder would play well with a hot wire cutter
[15:27:36] <saki`> can't take a planer to it like you usually would because it'd chip where the sheets meet
[15:28:23] <saki`> i could try and sand it by hand all the way down
[15:28:28] <saki`> but that's a lot of work
[15:28:36] <saki`> and time more importantly
[15:28:55] <jdh> that's half the point of board shaping
[15:29:10] <jdh> smoke weed, shape boards...
[15:29:20] <jdh> could just be a local thing.
[15:29:45] <saki`> sanding still a part of it, but the planer gets you through the drudge work
[15:30:39] <saki`> other alternative which i'm testing right now is making the entire thing out of mycelium blocks
[15:30:57] <saki`> which seems like it might actually work
[15:31:12] <saki`> doing it on a very small scale right now though
[15:31:39] <saki`> and i'm not very confident that i can scale it up to the size i need
[15:32:10] <saki`> anyway, sorry to crowd the channel for so long
[15:36:34] <jdh> DaViruz: http://tinyurl.com/q96mefs
[15:37:04] <Jymmm> I need to cut grooves (threads?) on 3/4" to 4" PVC Pipe and I don't have access to a lathe, any thoughts?
[15:37:46] <Loetmichel> make a thread cutter out of some steel on your CNC mill?
[15:38:07] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: no mill.
[15:38:38] <jdh> needle file
[15:38:39] <Loetmichel> angle grinder with a fine blade and some steel?
[15:38:55] <DaViruz> jdh: thanks a bunch
[15:39:08] <DaViruz> though it means i will be up all night (again)
[15:39:21] <Jymmm> It's PVC, not that hard to cut, it's the consistant threads I'm looking for
[15:39:32] <Loetmichel> get a fitting screw, halve it and glue it an an appropiate corner inside a steel ring that fits the pipe OD
[15:39:54] <jdh> DaViruz: I had extra cash and was ready to order one before reading that.
[15:39:58] <Loetmichel> a screw dath will have a thread taht matches your desired thread i meant
[15:40:13] <DaViruz> jdh: oh, i guess that about sums it up
[15:44:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I was thinking something ghetto using cordless drill and allthread
[15:46:23] <Jymmm> I could use PVC endcaps with a bolt thru them as the mounting point
[15:47:16] <Jymmm> Just not sure how to get consistant threads or to vary them
[15:48:09] <CaptHindsight> the resin to make boards like that can be low cost enough ~$4/Kg
[15:48:31] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: who you talking to?
[16:02:46] <JesusAlos> hi
[16:02:48] <JesusAlos> all
[16:04:20] <JesusAlos> I thinking about if development team planing publish 12.04 ubuntu version
[16:08:24] <CaptHindsight> it's possible now that RTAI , RT-PREEMPT and Xenomai are working with newer kernels
[16:11:53] <JesusAlos> Seems not easy this job...
[16:13:48] <andypugh> JesusAlos: There are plans for a 2.6 release on a variety of 12.04 kernels. It could all go wrong, but that is the plan.
[16:15:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-printer-the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc
[16:16:54] <CaptHindsight> all the problems of monomers with the resolution of GGG
[16:18:42] <CaptHindsight> I'll have to go back and try my Archimedes Z-axis :)
[16:20:55] <andypugh> It's not brilliant, but I think I still want one :-)
[16:21:55] <CaptHindsight> I didn't think that they could actually move the progress of 3D printers backwards
[16:22:36] <skunkworks> logger[mah]:
[16:22:37] <logger[mah]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-09-23.html
[16:24:03] <CaptHindsight> flashlight, resin vat + shadow puppets next
[16:24:17] <DaViruz> i don't get the useless 3d printer craze
[16:25:11] <DaViruz> but i'm almost inclined to say the peachyprinter seems nicer then the cnc controlled hot melt glue guns
[16:25:40] <CaptHindsight> it's like the RPi, low cost and trendy
[16:26:43] <CaptHindsight> their delivery date is next April to Aug, expect some Chinese suppliers to ship first just like the Doodler
[16:30:52] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintinginsider.com/chinese-3dyaya-doodler-starts-shipping_b8333
[16:36:22] <DaViruz> that looks like a non-cnc hot melt glue gun?
[16:37:20] <CaptHindsight> sort of like a non-cnc mill
[16:41:20] <Jymmm> heh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4FBpN_vjoM
[16:41:21] <Tecan> (-4FBpN_vjoM) "3D Printed Knife - Will It Cut Paper?" by "ArtisanTony" is "Howto" - Length: 0:06:30
[17:27:50] <JesusAlos> good night
[17:28:15] <JesusAlos> go bed
[18:57:34] <andypugh> _ink and oner? Should we be looking out for Phazer wax blocks too?
[18:58:13] <AR_> why do you want wax blocks
[18:58:59] <andypugh> I was looking at the names of folk joining and leaving. (there was an _ink and a toner)
[18:59:25] <andypugh> It would have made more sense if I had hit the "t" key harder.
[19:00:29] <andypugh> But I always liked the idea of the Tektronix Phaser printers that used coloured wax blocks as pigment, and the blocks were specially shaped to only fit in the right slot.
[19:02:08] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_ink
[19:05:42] <AR_> lol
[19:06:11] <andypugh> Hmm, and I can buy one from eBay for less than one of the 4 colour cartridges in my laser printer.
[19:07:08] <andypugh> (My current printer was an eBay accident, it looked smaller in the photo. My first inkling of a problem was when the courier rang to say that they couldn't get the pallet up my garden path..../
[19:07:28] <JT-Shop> yikes that is big
[19:08:50] <andypugh> The vendor had failed to mention the 2500 sheet magazine.... https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/MgB989_mA9lWpQyLHLqPodMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:10:24] <andypugh> I managed to find a place to put it (almost entirely due to being single) but when it runs out of toner (at £175 per colour) it's out of here.
[19:10:45] <JT-Shop> to the scrappers?
[19:10:53] <andypugh> Yeah, I reckno so.
[19:11:05] <andypugh> I might look inside for motors and lasers :-)
[19:11:28] <JT-Shop> ah yea call the guys from secret life of machines to help you take it apart
[19:12:51] * JT-Shop puts on the chef hat and starts dinner
[19:12:54] <andypugh> If you are interested it is a max-spec Tektronix Phaser 7300
[19:12:57] <JT-Shop> goodnight
[19:13:38] <JT-Shop> I'm out of bandwith so I can't click on photos or videos for the rest of the month
[19:16:13] <andypugh> eeek!
[19:16:37] <JT-Shop> the only thing I leave on is the IRC
[19:16:45] <andypugh> Can't you, like divert the food or water budget or something?
[19:17:04] <JT-Shop> I bought more but it chewed it up too fast
[19:17:14] <JT-Shop> I think the eye pad is the devil
[19:17:54] <JT-Shop> I added 2 GB and it was gone in a few days with me not doing much on the internet
[19:18:15] <JT-Shop> I've since turned off the wifi on the eye pad and eye phones
[19:18:46] <JT-Shop> time to start dinner...
[19:18:51] <JT-Shop> speak soon
[19:19:10] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, did you find your leak?
[19:36:05] <MacGalempsy> archivist_herron: mind if I inquire a little more about our conversation last night about the Bolton Tools CNC mill?
[19:41:33] <archivist_> night! it was morning
[19:42:06] <archivist_> just ask questions though, so anyone can answer
[19:56:46] <MacGalempsy> heh. morning, night, just depends on your location.
[19:57:08] <archivist_> UK, 1:41 am
[19:57:10] <MacGalempsy> so this bolton tool company only sales mail order, so I cannot use the tramel gauge
[19:57:23] <MacGalempsy> however, they claim to go through the entire setup process in LA before shipping
[19:57:39] <somenewguy> 2042 US
[19:58:17] <archivist_> MacGalempsy, that makes me distrusting
[19:58:30] <MacGalempsy> how so?
[19:58:53] <MacGalempsy> i live 1800 miles from their store
[19:59:06] <archivist_> there was no specification for squareness on the ebay page I saw
[19:59:45] <archivist_> they can check a bad value and claim it in specification
[20:00:58] <archivist_> surely there must be a supplier of the same iron with a differing badge who is more local
[20:01:47] <MacGalempsy> it would be good to check out. maybe I can call and ask about the squareness
[20:02:09] <MacGalempsy> the price seemed good $7k US for the entire 4th axis kit
[20:04:22] <andypugh> $7k for a 4 axis kit? This is big stuff I guess?
[20:04:39] <MacGalempsy> http://www.boltonhardware.com/category/bolton-tools/metal-lathes-wood-lathes-milling-machines/cnc-lathes-cnc-milling-machines-cnc-machine-center/4-axis-cnc-milling-machine.php
[20:05:34] <andypugh> Hmm.
[20:06:15] <andypugh> Have you looked at Tormach and Smithy?
[20:06:24] <MacGalempsy> no
[20:06:26] <MacGalempsy> link?
[20:07:07] <andypugh> http://www.tormach.com/tormach_pcnc_mills.html
[20:07:33] <andypugh> http://www.smithy.com
[20:08:34] <andypugh> I have at least heard of both of them (and both have contributed to LinuxCNC)
[20:10:45] <MacGalempsy> the tormach 770 looks like the same iron
[20:10:57] <MacGalempsy> as the bolton
[20:11:32] <andypugh> I don't think it is.
[20:14:22] <archivist_> even if it was, I would trust the tormach company to have tested it
[20:15:03] <andypugh> Tormach is flat under the spindle casting, Bolton isn't.
[20:15:10] * archivist_ finds a no name white shed on google maps for the bolton group
[20:15:53] <andypugh> Tormach have Turcite ways, Bolton don't mention that. More worryingly, Bolton are not in Bolton.
[20:16:48] <andypugh> In 5 years time I might be recommending Bolton. But I have been aware of Tormach for 5 years, and have never heard of Bolton.
[20:17:31] <archivist_> last review https://plus.google.com/113020645198969951049/about?gl=uk&hl=en#113020645198969951049/about?gl=uk&hl=en
[20:19:06] <archivist_> MacGalempsy, in the UK I know how some of the importers either admit or dont about the quality
[20:19:39] <archivist_> one supplies a manual with a recommended rebuild before you use
[20:21:13] <andypugh> I really like the Amadeal guy, but the lathe I bought seems to have been made by a guy who has never used a lathe. Which takes some doing :-)
[20:21:55] <MacGalempsy> heh
[20:22:23] <archivist_> I helped a friend do the spindle on the arc euro one (they who wrote a manual)
[20:22:28] <andypugh> In fact, I have given up on all the new iron, and prefer to convert old stuff.
[20:22:52] <archivist_> old iron is cheaper and far better
[20:22:57] <andypugh> But then, this is a hobby, and I don't care how much time it eats.
[20:23:07] <archivist_> may just be.....bigger
[20:23:23] <andypugh> I might be doing a CNC conversion of a Rivett 608. I can't decide :-)
[20:24:49] <archivist_> Myford also used to get one of theirs and re manufacture and then charge the earth, went out of business
[20:25:51] <archivist_> MacGalempsy, dont be frightened of a retrofit, it is a good way to learn
[20:26:57] <andypugh> If I had a lot of money to burn I would quite like to collaborate with RDG in launching a range of Myford CNC lathes. I think that there might be a market for a properly solid home/hobby CNC lathe.
[20:27:27] <archivist_> yes but RDG is a an importation shed
[20:28:02] <archivist_> that now owns a good badge, will they keep the name good or drag it down
[20:28:07] <andypugh> Largely, yes, but they own the name, and are in Halifax.
[20:28:48] <andypugh> There have been very few bad machine tools made in West Yorks.
[20:28:48] <archivist_> I have seen some utter dross from them, small rotary table
[20:29:43] <andypugh> Yeah, that is why I feel that you could make a small fortune by investing a larg fortune in them.
[20:30:51] <archivist_> I have less than a fortune
[20:31:59] <archivist_> missed out on a renishaw probe almost hidden on 221284141570
[20:33:15] <MacGalempsy> I have not my main reason for wanting a a turn key is to avoid the amount of time and effort of a retrofit
[20:33:57] <MacGalempsy> I think I can go to about 10k
[20:34:30] <MacGalempsy> so I figured 7k for the machine and 3k for the rest would get me up and going
[20:35:23] <andypugh> archivist_: That was a complete CMM for £117!
[20:35:29] <archivist_> yesum
[20:36:05] <archivist_> I had £3, got paid 40 for some work, bid 41....
[20:36:05] <andypugh> That's almost cheap for the surface plate
[20:36:31] <archivist_> and only 12miles to fetch
[20:37:26] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: It's probably worth talking to Tormach. They do have a better than average reputation in the market.
[20:37:47] <MacGalempsy> ok. the last thing I want to worry about is crappy precision
[20:39:43] <archivist_> being in another country I am not biased apart from hating to see good money going to bad suppliers for junk
[20:39:49] <andypugh> Tormach also support LinuxCNC as the controller.
[20:40:11] <archivist_> erm...mach on the mills ?
[20:41:08] <andypugh> archivist_: From the spec sheet: PC – MachOS (recommended) or Ubuntu Linux;
[20:41:31] <archivist_> ok so both available
[20:42:18] <andypugh> What I was meaning was that if you ring up with a problem and say that you are using LinuxCNC they won't insist that you switch to Mach before they will talk.
[20:44:15] <somenewguy> i get why, but I hate it when folks do that
[20:44:42] <somenewguy> esp if you are having a purely mechanical problem and they call linux thier 'get out of service free" card
[20:44:56] <andypugh> Tormach also have a fairly neat quich-change tooling system: http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32284
[20:45:33] <somenewguy> mmm quiche
[20:45:39] <somenewguy> now im hungry
[20:45:48] <andypugh> Hmm, I wonder what a "quiche change tooling system" would actually do?
[20:46:45] <somenewguy> I assume it is how they correct serving errors in the food service industry
[20:47:16] <archivist_> would that be a stomach pump?
[20:48:38] <andypugh> it's got late again while I wasn't looking.
[20:48:44] <andypugh> Night all.
[20:48:45] <MacGalempsy> heh.
[20:49:14] <andypugh> (actually, 0230 is closer to early than late.
[20:50:58] <somenewguy> hey I have a question about tightening up some split bronze nuts on my mini-mill
[20:51:15] <somenewguy> I found a how-to article and it says to snug them till the screw binds, then back off a quarter turn
[20:51:39] <MacGalempsy> so this is my situation on the cnc. I took a semester of machine shop in high school, and I am a college grad who has reached out into other fields. I have some product ideas that would be made through plastic injection molds. my experience with CNC is with 3d printing, but being a research scientist I figured it would just take time to learn and master the process. does this sound over reaching for the machine I showed you guys?
[20:51:44] <somenewguy> I did this but it seems really loose, I feel like what felt good to me was backed off 1/16-1/8th
[20:53:50] <archivist_> somenewguy, yes back off the right amount so its is free over all the screw
[20:54:20] <somenewguy> should it wiggle? cause mine wiggled a healthy few degrees backed off the 1/4 as reccomended
[20:54:38] <somenewguy> I only just got the bed back together and have yet to re-measure the backlash, but it will be miselading since I also adjusted the gibs
[20:54:55] <somenewguy> I figured it should be backed off till it JUST starts to turn free at the ends
[20:55:16] <somenewguy> the machine is new-to-me but seems to have worked many an hour for the PO so I am adjusting it closer to the ends of travel
[20:55:23] <archivist_> MacGalempsy, for mold making also think of just subcontract to someone who has a big enough machine
[20:56:11] <somenewguy> MacGalempsy: if you have a printer, just doing scale prints is inadequet? learning a whole new technology JUST to protype things that will be injection molded seems a pretty big commitment, as my 2cents
[20:56:19] <archivist_> somenewguy, you seem to have the right idea, some of the web howtos are off a bit
[20:56:35] <somenewguy> ok cool, so I will take it all BACK apart and re-do that
[20:56:53] <somenewguy> I used to work as an engine builder, so fiddly little htings like this are well known to be a way of life
[20:56:55] <MacGalempsy> i see what you are saying.
[20:57:33] <somenewguy> that said, I am only in this channel cause I bought a mill to make parts for a project I am tryign to get off the ground as wel, soooooo take that with a grain of salt
[20:57:48] <MacGalempsy> well, it would be to make all the series of molds, then other projects and hobby stuff. I looked at the taigs but wanted to beable to play with a 5th axis kit
[20:57:56] <somenewguy> we bought a 3d printer last year and this is the logical next step, if only if only
[20:58:02] <MacGalempsy> i work from a home office and have time to play during my shift
[20:58:02] <archivist_> taigs are a bit small
[20:58:08] <somenewguy> taigs are quite small
[20:58:21] <MacGalempsy> yeah, that is why I didnt want a taig after seeing the bolton
[20:58:24] <somenewguy> I konw i will be selling this as ssoon as I find a new place to live, with enough room for a full sized bridgport
[20:58:44] <somenewguy> and then I will cry because I no longer have a CNC, but eventually will upgrade the BP
[20:59:03] <somenewguy> how big is the bolton?
[20:59:11] <MacGalempsy> the one review I saw on the bolton was for one of their lathes. the machine shop owner was overly impressed with the features and the price
[20:59:20] <archivist_> keep the cnc you can make parts for the bp
[20:59:23] <somenewguy> My buddy bought one of thosechinese/HF mills a few years back and comparingit to my taig, his is a little bigger
[20:59:39] <somenewguy> but the taig deffinatly wins in quality by a solid margin
[20:59:40] <MacGalempsy> he mentioned the accuracy was way better than what he initially exprected
[21:00:09] <somenewguy> archivist_, hard tojustify the cost of two machines
[21:00:14] <MacGalempsy> do you think the taig could handle steel?
[21:00:24] <somenewguy> It does actually pretty nicely
[21:00:40] <somenewguy> according to Taig themselves, it can do 1/8 deep w/ a 1/8th endmill in steel
[21:00:43] <archivist_> you can get good accuracy of a worn machine with a good operator
[21:00:59] <somenewguy> and after watching how hard my buddys HF mill fights with steel, I consider that an impressive feat
[21:01:31] <somenewguy> Also I crashed the cutter into the steel vice, and it actually cut a pretty big groove right down it with out jumping around too much....
[21:01:43] <somenewguy> expensive/embarressing mistake
[21:01:44] <MacGalempsy> well, i got to go hang out with the wife for a little. catch you guys in a bit
[21:01:48] <somenewguy> have fun
[21:01:57] <jdh> I was amazed at how well mine cut my vise also
[21:02:11] <somenewguy> archivist, one more question on the split nuts
[21:02:20] <archivist_> I only got up for a pee and some cheese, I should go back to bed :)
[21:02:25] <somenewguy> in the how-to video from taig, they say to adjsut the two outer tightening screws
[21:02:35] <somenewguy> the internet has a way of sucking ppl back in
[21:02:46] <somenewguy> but have the center spreader screw tight to begin with
[21:02:51] * archivist_ admits nothing
[21:03:02] <somenewguy> that seems strange to me, unless the machine is already almost in very good tune
[21:03:26] <somenewguy> I would think you want the center screw loose till you have it close, then snug it up and re-checkthe outer ones
[21:03:31] <somenewguy> any clue on what I should do there?
[21:03:51] <somenewguy> center screw loose or tight when adjusting is the million dollar question
[21:03:56] <archivist_> I am wary of the spreader/clamp method, my hobbymat lathe had that
[21:04:43] <archivist_> I scrapped it and used parts for my mill
[21:05:27] <somenewguy> what is the alternative?
[21:05:32] <somenewguy> or are you about to say ballscrew...
[21:06:58] <archivist_> erm... I have just converted one axis from acme to ballscrew
[21:07:06] <roycroft> ballscrews are generally not necessary for eliminating backlash
[21:07:18] <somenewguy> yeah I am deff not gonna do that
[21:07:27] <roycroft> the primary advantages of ballscrews are reduced friction and increased accuracy
[21:07:47] <somenewguy> not sinking any money into the Taig sicne I know I will sell it in 2-4 years tiem and geta full size bridgeport, at which point I will spend money
[21:08:04] <somenewguy> so for now I am getting my feet wet and learning on this little guy
[21:08:14] <somenewguy> so much fun new stuff to learn!
[21:08:55] <roycroft> i still haven't finished the cnc conversion of my small mill, but i'm definitely not going to put ballscrews on it
[21:09:14] <roycroft> life got in the way of that project
[21:09:23] <roycroft> life has a tendency to do that upon occasion
[21:09:38] <somenewguy> yeah life can be a real jerk
[21:09:58] <roycroft> i have an sx3 clone
[21:10:29] <roycroft> bigger than the taig, but still fairly small
[21:12:59] <kwallace2> Don't underestimate the need for ball screws and not just any ball screws.
[21:13:41] <roycroft> what do you mean by that?
[21:14:09] <kwallace2> I spent good money on a set without preload and the backlash makes them nearly useless for CNC.
[21:14:38] <kwallace2> They are great for manual milling, just not CNC.
[21:14:46] <roycroft> ok
[21:15:09] * roycroft steps back
[21:15:42] <kwallace2> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/
[21:17:21] <roycroft> i've manually operated a bridgeport with ball screws and found it extremely difficult to control
[21:18:01] <roycroft> but the context of this discussion, from what i gathered when i entered it, was eliminating backlash on a taig mill
[21:18:23] <roycroft> i was pointing out that backlash elimination is not a primary reason to install ball screws
[21:18:32] <roycroft> it can be done with acme screws
[21:19:32] <somenewguy> ball screws give you speed too is the big thing, due to lower friction is my understanding
[21:19:59] <somenewguy> and i would say you install ball scrwes not to iliminate backlash as much as to stop it from showing up in the form of wear
[21:19:59] <roycroft> yes, but on a small mill that's not generally a major consideration
[21:20:01] <somenewguy> also linearity
[21:20:08] <somenewguy> eliminate
[21:20:14] <roycroft> and the increased accuracy of ground ball screws is wasted on a small mill
[21:20:18] <somenewguy> also yes that
[21:20:46] <somenewguy> is that your mill?
[21:21:01] <archivist_> I think there is 9 thou wear mid screw on my old horizontal mill, there is little one can do but replace to fix
[21:21:47] <kwallace2> I've tried to adjust the backlash out of my Bridgeport acme screws and they are nearly impossible to drive.
[21:22:06] <roycroft> perhaps they are well-worn
[21:22:46] <roycroft> i've worked on bridgeports with the stock acme screws that are pretty tight
[21:23:27] <roycroft> not that bridgeport is the gold standard of accurate mills by any means
[21:24:38] <somenewguy> kwallace2: I hate you for linking that dang build
[21:24:41] <roycroft> and again, this discussion is about taigs, not bridgeports
[21:24:47] <somenewguy> I bought the Taig so I would stop drooling over real mills
[21:25:37] <somenewguy> a oiling system on ataig is stupid, right? I can just do it manually from time to time, the holes would just make it weaker, yeah?
[21:25:51] <roycroft> well i would work on backlash elimination with the stock screws on the taig, and not replace them with ball screws
[21:26:07] <somenewguy> that is what I am doing, and so far so good
[21:26:08] <roycroft> i would also not expect to hold 0.001" on a taig, no matter what kinds of screws you ahve
[21:26:16] <roycroft> nor how much scraping/fine tuning
[21:26:36] <somenewguy> I feel confident I am at <.002 at this point
[21:26:40] <somenewguy> well at least .002
[21:26:43] <roycroft> not unless you're taking extremely light cuts
[21:26:47] <archivist_> I would expect better than a thou after a tweek
[21:26:56] <roycroft> there's just not enough mass there
[21:27:08] <somenewguy> light cuts are easy w/ cnc, since time almost isn't an issue lol
[21:27:08] <archivist_> spring pass
[21:27:17] <roycroft> any kind of a hogging cut is going to cause a lot of vibration that's not dampened
[21:27:23] <somenewguy> they advertise it as having .0005 mech accuracy
[21:27:32] <roycroft> that could be
[21:27:39] <somenewguy> I am condsidering filling the vertical column witch cement
[21:27:41] <somenewguy> with cement
[21:27:46] <somenewguy> not witch cement
[21:27:58] <somenewguy> although the hex might help
[21:28:14] <roycroft> some folks add mass using epoxy mixed with aggregate
[21:28:22] <somenewguy> aside from cursing myself if I need to move it around the shop, I assume it can't hurt, right?
[21:28:28] <somenewguy> ok so I am not hte only one to have the idea
[21:28:43] <roycroft> it's something that's fairly commonly done on smallish mills
[21:28:53] <roycroft> say, those weighing less than 500kg or so
[21:28:54] <somenewguy> I had to do this on my old drill press, the vertical column was so damn thin it bowed backwards hwen you drilled steel, and the set screws deformed the pipe...
[21:29:06] <archivist_> my column was too flexible, I added angle to it to make a larger square
[21:29:20] <roycroft> the epoxy is a better vibration dampener than concrete
[21:29:37] <somenewguy> ok cool, I actually have some left over cement and high heat morter from a bbq build
[21:29:42] <somenewguy> what kind of epoxy?
[21:29:52] <kwallace2> Okay, for a Taig class machine, I'll agree with you.
[21:29:58] <somenewguy> I have never looked at something like that as a bulk item so in my mind epoxy == expesnive
[21:30:27] <roycroft> teh google will help you find further discussion of that
[21:30:37] <somenewguy> ...actually doing that now
[21:30:38] <roycroft> i haven't done so myself, and it's been some time since i read up on it
[21:30:52] <somenewguy> had to close my CL window browsing local bridgeport offerings...
[21:30:57] <roycroft> but there are several threads in the machining forums about it
[21:31:06] <kwallace2> I'm hoping I can put a desktop mill together for milling circuit boards.
[21:31:15] <somenewguy> what are good forums w/ a real active user base?
[21:31:17] <somenewguy> I am very new
[21:31:39] <kwallace2> It's just got to me dirt cheap.
[21:31:41] <roycroft> i bolted my mill down onto a stand i built that weighs about 200kg
[21:31:41] <somenewguy> kwallace2: that is a big part of why I bought my mendel max 3d printer in the firstpalce
[21:32:16] <somenewguy> my mill is on a tool cabinet meant for a giant old-school valve grinding machine, very solid plus storage space
[21:32:40] <somenewguy> the printer looked rigid enough to be dual-purpose to hold a dremmel and do PCBs
[21:32:50] <somenewguy> but now I intend to use the taig for pcbs, among other things
[21:32:50] <roycroft> i would focus on lapping/scraping the ways on the mill and eliminating backlash before anything else
[21:33:15] <roycroft> oh, if you're going to mill pcbs, don't bother with the dampening stuff
[21:33:23] <roycroft> those are going to be very light cuts
[21:33:25] <somenewguy> pcbs are not the major use
[21:33:30] <somenewguy> just alucky side effect
[21:33:32] <roycroft> you won't have vibration problems
[21:33:41] <roycroft> you'll need a new spindle, though
[21:33:54] <roycroft> a really really fast one
[21:33:57] <somenewguy> I will be doing tons of aluminum and some steel etc etc
[21:34:04] <somenewguy> howfast is really really fast?
[21:34:15] <somenewguy> these bearings are only good to 10k
[21:34:15] <roycroft> depends on the diameter of the cutter/drill
[21:34:24] <roycroft> but for pcbs, probably 20k-30k rpm
[21:34:33] <somenewguy> whee
[21:34:52] <somenewguy> probably just make a saddle to hold a dremmel onto the existing Zaxis
[21:34:56] <somenewguy> but not dremmel brand
[21:34:56] <roycroft> yup
[21:34:59] <somenewguy> that other brand, htey are better
[21:35:00] <roycroft> except not a dremel :)
[21:35:04] <roycroft> something real
[21:35:05] <somenewguy> traxxon?
[21:35:10] <somenewguy> proxon?
[21:35:13] <somenewguy> traxxis?
[21:35:18] <roycroft> some folks use the proxon stuff
[21:35:24] <roycroft> some use air die grinders
[21:35:37] <roycroft> and there are some custom spindles available
[21:35:55] <somenewguy> proxon, thats the one. my partner on this project bought a dremmel and a proxon, side by side the cheaper ugly proxon is way tighter on spec
[21:36:14] <roycroft> some that are driven off the main spindle motor, stepped up with gears or sheaves
[21:36:42] <roycroft> with a dremel you're going to start out with about 0.010" runout if you're lucky
[21:36:52] <roycroft> and as soon as you turn it on the runout gets worse
[21:37:16] <roycroft> there's a reason you can buy one for $30 :)
[21:37:36] <roycroft> and then buy it again and again and again
[22:57:41] <joebog> hello all need some help
[22:58:09] <joebog> I finally got the engraving machine working and it does what its supposed to do
[22:58:32] <joebog> apart from ONE thing the picture is upside down and left to right
[22:58:42] <joebog> inverted both ways in other words
[22:58:53] <joebog> at least compared to the screen view