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[00:09:42] <RoyOnWheels|MTW> hi, what term and units are used for z height if anything special
[00:36:04] <uw> parsecs
[00:36:12] <uw> maybe AU
[00:36:16] <uw> depending on the country
[00:53:35] <NickParker> RoyOnWheels|MTW: Whatever the rest of the machine is. mm or inch in most cases
[01:12:44] <toastyde1th> does anyone know offhand what precast concrete costs
[01:28:05] <CaptHindsight> toastyde1th: what volume? They sell slabs of it at Home Depot for a few $ea
[01:28:14] <toastyde1th> i mean for like a prefab building
[01:28:21] <toastyde1th> stand up, insulated concrete
[01:28:27] <toastyde1th> 10x12' panel, probably 3" thick
[01:31:32] <CaptHindsight> I've never used prefab for vertical. Either precast for horizontal or poured in place and tilt up for vertical.
[01:32:30] <toastyde1th> how does tilt-up fare?
[01:33:18] <toastyde1th> the basic thing is i'm trying to build a warehouse to build a flat inside of, and I'm trying to figure out what material is going to be my best option
[01:33:30] <toastyde1th> without sucking my budget up for other things
[01:35:02] <CaptHindsight> tilt-up is about the same price as a slab only there's a bit more labor since you need a crane to lift it into place
[01:35:14] <toastyde1th> hm
[01:36:32] <CaptHindsight> but with pre-cast you can order it with all kinds of extras in place, holes for mechanical, etc
[01:37:11] <toastyde1th> yeah, it'll be a toss up - the precast can be insulated, which is something I care about
[01:37:45] <toastyde1th> but the cost between tilt up and precast appears to be substantial
[01:37:55] <CaptHindsight> are you in a cold or very warm climate?
[01:38:12] <toastyde1th> Maryland
[01:38:16] <toastyde1th> winters get fairly brisk
[01:39:02] <toastyde1th> what i'm looking at putting up is essentially a 40' x 40' building, connected to a walled in yard the same height with a concrete "fence" 40' long, then another 40' x 40' building
[01:40:00] <toastyde1th> one building is living space, and needs to be able to hold heat
[01:40:05] <toastyde1th> also, everything will be 12' high
[01:41:24] <toastyde1th> the other one is shop space and won't really need to hold temperature as well
[01:42:03] <CaptHindsight> I haven't been involved with it much the past decade or two, but prefab really came down in price
[01:42:24] <toastyde1th> it may be possible to do mixed construction
[01:42:37] <toastyde1th> the one huge advantage with precast is they sell 40
[01:42:46] <toastyde1th> er, 40' x 10' roof spans
[01:43:01] <toastyde1th> and that's REALLY attractive because it really eliminates leak points and roofing costs
[01:47:42] <CaptHindsight> is this rural? Will you need an architect?
[01:49:43] <toastyde1th> don't have the best idea of where it's going - ideally, I want to live close to civilization; if i can find a mixed zoning thing and put it near an industrial park, i will
[01:49:59] <toastyde1th> if it has to go further out in the sticks, well, then it has to go there.
[01:50:09] <toastyde1th> i will need an architect
[01:50:45] <CaptHindsight> they are pretty good at knowing the current prices and trade-offs :)
[01:50:52] <toastyde1th> yeah
[01:51:15] <toastyde1th> i'm trying to ballpark the total cost
[01:51:29] <toastyde1th> that way, I know i'm wasting my time before I really set out
[01:53:47] <toastyde1th> the question is basically "how much warehouse can i build and finish for 300k
[01:53:48] <CaptHindsight> 20 years ago I'd say $150K-200K for something concrete or brick that size for everything
[01:54:20] <toastyde1th> that's probably acceptable
[01:54:39] <toastyde1th> only the one building will be finished to any appriciable degree, and it's going to be mostly open space
[01:55:07] <toastyde1th> three bedrooms along the back wall, a semi-closed kitchen, and then the rest just open.
[01:55:16] <toastyde1th> carpeted and walled, but open
[01:55:53] <CaptHindsight> in the midwest there is lots of tilt-up with steel roof for warehouse, or all steel for lower budgets
[01:56:20] <toastyde1th> all steel is an option, but I'm either going to get absolutely fucked with ongoing heating/cooling costs, or fucked on the massive amount of insulation
[01:57:05] <toastyde1th> modern insulated concrete does very, very well, and is probably worth it if i can afford it
[01:57:17] <toastyde1th> and it may even be an option in tilt up
[01:57:26] <DJ9DJ> moin
[01:57:58] <CaptHindsight> before the housing bubble burst I was working on architectural composites
[01:58:38] <toastyde1th> ?
[01:59:29] <CaptHindsight> aluminum with foam core panels and t-slot type framing
[01:59:41] <toastyde1th> hmmm
[02:00:52] <CaptHindsight> but nobody wants a house that doesn't rust, rot, burn well, etc and is easy to recycle and move
[02:01:55] <toastyde1th> that sucks, because that's the kind of thing I'm looking for
[02:02:05] <toastyde1th> I want inexpensive and bulk
[02:02:14] <toastyde1th> looking like shit on the exterior is a bonus
[02:03:50] <CaptHindsight> that's also where all the graphic anodizing came in, since you could make the aluminum look like wood or stone
[02:05:09] <CaptHindsight> call some prefab guys in a few hours
[02:05:34] <CaptHindsight> they have probably been slow the past 5 years :)
[02:05:51] <toastyde1th> hahahaha
[02:06:02] <toastyde1th> i won't have the money on hand for a few years yet
[02:06:14] <toastyde1th> but still, will be good to get costs
[02:06:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B5JiSco3cI
[02:12:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txhSY41G9Gw 6-Floor Building Completed in 1 day(24 Hours)
[02:24:33] <toastyde1th> haha awesome
[02:24:38] <toastyde1th> also ty for the wisdom
[02:24:47] <toastyde1th> but i am going to bed, i have class tomorrow
[03:37:36] <Fedo> hello,
[03:38:15] <Fedo> has anybody an isel FB2 maschine cofigured
[03:41:43] <archivist> google "isel FB2 linuxcnc" or "isel FB2 EMC2" should find logs for here and emails etc if anyone has
[04:21:23] <cnc> i have a 7i33 with no W5 jumper
[04:21:29] <cnc> pcw_home, you around?
[04:21:44] <cnc> its just not there at all
[04:46:09] <archivist> a bit early for him!
[08:49:41] <pcw_home> cnc: 7I33s have no W5 only 7I33TAs
[10:54:14] <qdc> Hi, I had an Axis question
[10:54:16] <qdc> state {$task_state != $STATE_ESTOP} .toolbar.machine_power {.menu.machine "Toggle _Machine Power"}
[10:54:33] <qdc> Am I reading that right, that the Enable/Disable state of the MachinePower button, is solely off some type of EStop state?
[11:40:51] <JT-Shop> not sure of what to think of this post...
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/31-cad-cam/26983-post-processors-for-solidcam#38546
[11:43:15] <archivist> I get a you do not have permission
[11:43:18] <mhaberler> that's a new wrinkle: You do not have permissions to access this page.
[11:43:21] <mhaberler> yep, me2
[11:43:28] <Chemeleon> same
[11:43:28] <mhaberler> aint you or me ;)
[11:43:30] <JT-Shop> one second
[11:43:47] <archivist> methinks someone has not moderated :)
[11:44:12] <JT-Shop> ok look now
[11:45:11] <archivist> hmm bit spammish
[11:45:38] <JT-Shop> kinda what I was thinking
[11:46:08] <archivist> lacks any contextual question nor comment
[11:46:47] <archivist> could just set it back to unmoderated :)
[12:05:52] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:10:18] <kengu> hi
[12:12:01] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[12:13:30] <IchGuckLive> rushias internet down from germany psha nor retchable
[12:14:19] <IchGuckLive> kengu: did you solve your latency problem
[12:15:50] <kengu> IchGuckLive: umm.. i don't have latency problems
[12:16:05] <IchGuckLive> oh then im wrong
[12:16:14] <kengu> or i might be wrong (:
[12:16:34] <kengu> i just ordered some mesa stuff, 5i25 & 7i76
[12:16:36] <kengu> for plasma
[12:16:49] <IchGuckLive> good i got 3 of them
[12:17:02] <kengu> the laser is working with parallel port and some breakout board to connect the drivers etc
[12:17:03] <IchGuckLive> plasma and mesa
[12:17:27] <IchGuckLive> give the laser laso a mesa
[12:17:45] <kengu> the problem is i have no idea on how to operate a plasma cutter so it is a bit hard to (re)wire it and operate
[12:17:46] <IchGuckLive> also a mesa
[12:18:20] <IchGuckLive> plasma is easy its only 3 axis one controled by THC
[12:18:37] <kengu> laser is good enough as is. i have no idea on what would be better with mesa but it is something that I might see when I get the thing working..
[12:18:58] <IchGuckLive> speed
[12:19:11] <IchGuckLive> about 10times of parport if not more
[12:19:13] <kengu> IchGuckLive: umm.. yeah. the z is pneumatic at the moment. it did look like a bit difficult to control
[12:19:29] <IchGuckLive> get a spindel in there
[12:20:01] <IchGuckLive> the plasma cut torch Voltige is controling the space height for a good cut
[12:20:39] <kengu> something needs to be done. and also the ..umm.. the "rough" z height probe to find the surface?
[12:20:46] <IchGuckLive> if you go fix cut height you will get rouph and material filed cuts
[12:21:13] <IchGuckLive> touchoff is done by button or Mcode
[12:21:22] <IchGuckLive> easy to fit in
[12:22:16] <IchGuckLive> i also use Mcode for THC enable and disable as my simple plasma got not the port
[12:22:36] <IchGuckLive> the THC has this port
[12:22:52] <IchGuckLive> http://eagleplasma.com/thc.htm
[12:22:55] <kengu> yeah.. I will sort of work with the plasma next week as umm.. it is a bit remote project (240km) and i am there only every now and then like every three weeks at that workshop
[12:23:08] <IchGuckLive> works fine here as i got it from polan
[12:23:47] <IchGuckLive> as here 2 ive seen the plasmas only ones a week
[12:23:57] <IchGuckLive> but i do gcode every day
[12:24:47] <kengu> there is output for thc in the plasma
[12:25:03] <IchGuckLive> hypertherm
[12:25:23] <kengu> yes
[12:25:30] <IchGuckLive> wasted money
[12:25:41] <kengu> not my money on that part
[12:26:00] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:26:47] <kengu> there are some of those chinese cut60 or likes also around but most of them went to junk as after opening it did not look like anything on anyone would like to be near one when powered
[12:28:28] <IchGuckLive> http://www.expondo.de/de/Schweissgeraete/Plasmaschneider
[12:28:45] <IchGuckLive> i use this one s-plasma85h
[12:29:40] <IchGuckLive> the 55 will do the 90% of work also
[12:30:19] <IchGuckLive> the thc fits perfect in the case
[12:30:56] <IchGuckLive> 10 eire plug to the back and it looks like it comes from hypertherm
[12:31:45] <kengu> not that i know of anything but it is like not even half the price of hypertherm
[12:31:54] <IchGuckLive> kengu: the hypertherm plug for the control is cheeper at electronic store like radioshack
[12:31:55] <kengu> (like)
[12:32:56] <IchGuckLive> i got a hypertherm for testing it worked fine but the price vs ths is not worth to by it
[12:35:32] <IchGuckLive> kengu: plug
http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTION=3;ARTICLE=52845;SEARCH=CPC%20SG%2014S hypertherm charges 50USD
[12:36:09] <kengu> umm.. eur is better.
[12:36:10] <kengu> (:
[12:36:32] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[12:37:16] <qdc> you need the crimp pins for the shell too
[12:37:23] <IchGuckLive> the full control to the CNC is 400Euros here for hypertherm 45
[12:38:05] <IchGuckLive> all stuff including crimp pins (6) and Plug safty has been 20 Euros
[12:39:22] <IchGuckLive> the S-plasma selfmade electronic cnc connector is the same but got 10 wires for THC also
[12:43:08] <IchGuckLive> only 9 needed (24V GND THC Up down arkok , Enable arc +- ,enable plasma +-
[12:43:30] <terrym> hi
[12:43:34] <IchGuckLive> hi
[12:44:29] <terrym> G41.1 question, is there a way to make D relative to the tool table value?
[12:44:44] <IchGuckLive> D is free of use
[12:44:58] <IchGuckLive> G41 D4 on tool 16
[12:45:20] <IchGuckLive> yu got 100 D values
[12:45:39] <IchGuckLive> i guesx its 999 on 2.5+
[12:47:07] <IchGuckLive> terrym: yust loop (sub) to your gcode and change the D for rouphing first smoth and finish
[12:47:16] <IchGuckLive> in one g-code
[12:47:20] <terrym> In G41.1, not G41, D is the cutter diameter.
[12:47:36] <terrym> yes
[12:47:55] <IchGuckLive> its always the cutter diameter
[12:48:13] <terrym> That is what I thought.
[12:48:39] <IchGuckLive> what tool do you got a transient or standard
[12:49:04] <terrym> It would be a neat feature to be able to do "D+0.01" or "D-0.001" or such.
[12:49:23] <terrym> and have it add this value to the tool table value.
[12:49:58] <IchGuckLive> therfor i use D4 D44 D444
[12:50:11] <IchGuckLive> the tool D is always the exact
[12:50:20] <IchGuckLive> the otheres are ninor
[12:50:36] <IchGuckLive> minor or larger
[12:51:10] <terrym> Yes I had thought of multiple entries for a tool, but it seem a less then pretty solution.
[12:51:26] <IchGuckLive> as you always need to do a toolsetup per part if you are not at a chain toolchanger
[12:51:41] <IchGuckLive> its the iso solution
[12:51:46] <IchGuckLive> M0
[12:51:53] <IchGuckLive> is the stop and restart
[12:52:15] <IchGuckLive> to change exact messurments and do final pass
[12:52:21] <IchGuckLive> with changed D
[12:52:43] <IchGuckLive> pay atantion D is only loaded as the g-code loads
[12:52:53] <IchGuckLive> no change during prog run
[12:53:06] <terrym> I use end mill holders mostly, not spring collets, so I only touch off once, not per part.
[12:53:21] <IchGuckLive> so it is best to stay with the 3 times D g-codeing values
[12:53:48] <IchGuckLive> terrym: doesn ot matter
[12:54:09] <IchGuckLive> D is fixed to the interpreter
[12:54:27] <IchGuckLive> and on mill stay with D41
[12:54:35] <IchGuckLive> only lathe D41.1
[12:54:39] <IchGuckLive> G
[12:54:42] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[12:54:51] <terrym> Yes, I guess multiple tool entries is a suitable work around.
[12:55:10] <IchGuckLive> no only the ofsets
[12:55:15] <terrym> You sure? I've been using G41.1 on the mill.
[12:55:21] <IchGuckLive> same tool different ofsets
[12:56:36] <terrym> OK, well thank you for clearing that up.
[12:56:43] <IchGuckLive> if lathe is not set in ini G41.1 is not regionised only the plane sets the l on G17 3Axis
[12:57:24] <IchGuckLive> no mater it shoudt work
[12:58:32] <terrym> Humm, the docs are rather short, but do not mention that it is only for lathe use.
[12:59:15] <terrym> Thanks, bye.
[13:18:53] <Jymmm> You know things like silicone phone cases, etc. Has anyone tried to make their own custom silicone mold for such things?
[13:19:54] <andypugh> I haven't, but I believe it to be pretty easy.
[13:20:39] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: use POM to mill the molds
[13:20:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: In this instance, I't s a water proof cap
[13:20:48] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: pom?
[13:21:05] <IchGuckLive> UREOL
[13:21:16] <IchGuckLive> Necon600
[13:21:24] <Loetmichel> that way you dont need any "loosening agent" like wax or PVA in the mold and still get the silicone free
[13:21:35] <IchGuckLive> its easy to mill and with powder silocon ready
[13:21:49] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: what is POM ?
[13:21:53] <andypugh> Acetal
[13:22:05] <Jymmm> ah
[13:22:09] <jasen_> polyacetal
[13:22:11] <IchGuckLive> there are 2 versions 6 and 6.6
[13:22:24] <IchGuckLive> use 6.6
[13:22:26] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: Delrin/ acetal
[13:22:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: thanks
[13:22:36] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene
[13:22:52] <Jymmm> I will probably make a negative/positive cast mold
[13:22:54] <IchGuckLive> im off by
[13:23:13] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: do you have 2 components silicone?
[13:23:25] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I could
[13:23:38] <Loetmichel> acid hardening or neutral hardening silicones will take FOEVER in a mould
[13:23:43] <Loetmichel> -> not good
[13:23:56] <Jymmm> I want to make a waterproof tail cap for this
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1699/10002464/1181701-jinheng-2-in-1-cree-t6-5-mode-900-lumen-rechargeab
[13:24:04] <Loetmichel> and are to "thick" anyway
[13:24:24] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Thick works for me if it adds durability
[13:24:35] <andypugh> Jymmm: The easiest way might be "tool dip"
[13:24:39] <Loetmichel> viscous
[13:24:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: It has to be removeable, see link
[13:24:55] <Loetmichel> you cant "pour" them in the mould
[13:25:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah
[13:25:15] <andypugh> I am not sure he needs a mould...
[13:25:27] <Loetmichel> you have to have a 2k silicone that is nearly as thin as water to pour it into a mold
[13:26:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I'm think a pos/neg cast mold
[13:26:08] <Jymmm> thinking*
[13:27:29] <andypugh> Jymmm: You would have to lightly oil the torch, and fill the USB socket temporarily. It depends if you want one or a million.
[13:27:31] <Loetmichel> i have made some silicone parts in my time at a plane/helocopter model company
[13:27:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: Tape the usb closed, then lube the rest
[13:27:56] <ReadError> which company Loetmichel ?
[13:28:01] <ReadError> graupner ?
[13:28:14] <andypugh> Dip-moulding is a pretty conventional way to make that sort of cap.
[13:28:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm thinking 2-10 of them
[13:28:28] <Loetmichel> i used these silicones:
http://bacuplast.de/silikonkautschuk/silikonkautschuksysteme.html
[13:28:33] <Loetmichel> small company
[13:29:01] <andypugh> For 10 I would seriously look at dip-moulding on the actual device.
[13:29:02] <Loetmichel> www.flugmodellbau.de, now sold to another company in berlin
[13:29:30] <andypugh> But if you make a mould you can add branding and grip features etc.
[13:29:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: how would I control the thickness?
[13:29:44] <Jymmm> in dip
[13:30:04] <andypugh> I think that is set by the viscosity of the stuff. You can always double/triple dip.
[13:30:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: just set it all in a tube filled with goo?
[13:30:27] <Loetmichel> ReadError: www.flugmodellbau.de , now sold to another company in berlin
[13:30:31] <Jymmm> tube/pipe, whatever
[13:30:34] <ReadError> ahh
[13:30:46] <andypugh> http://www.plasticmouldings.com/dipmoulding.html
[13:30:46] <ReadError> i think the koreans bought graupner
[13:30:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: I have a vacum pump too
[13:31:27] <Jymmm> andypugh: (for air bubbles)
[13:33:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: I also need to see if I can mod it for 11.1V output
[13:33:38] <Jymmm> "somehow"
[13:34:47] <Jymmm> That'll get me 11.1@7.8AH power pack
[13:35:37] <Jymmm> errr sorry.... 11.1@2.6AH
[14:03:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: Heh, I can use these (to help keep the cap I mold in place)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-dust-Stopper-Cover-Protector-Plug-For-All-USB-Port-Laptop-Desktop-/330728527389?pt=US_Keyboard_Protectors&hash=item4d00f4d61d
[14:05:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: It can be taken apart easily
http://manager.kaidomain.com/UploadFiles/634755899763950000.jpg
[14:06:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: Kinda bulky, but I have big hands...
http://manager.kaidomain.com/UploadFiles/634755899451150000.jpg
[14:15:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: Of Course the next generation model has the cap *argh* lol
http://intl-outdoor.com/images/chargingusb2_06.jpg
[14:15:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: sluminum screw on too
[14:17:41] <andypugh> Can you thread yours and retrofit a cap?
[14:28:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: no lathe. But I haven't bought anything yet.
[14:28:47] <21WABGFVB> buy a lathe
[14:29:08] <jdh> wonder wtf that nick came from.
[14:29:10] <andypugh> You can survive without a lathe, but I wouldn't really call it living ;-)
[14:29:24] <Jymmm> heh
[14:29:38] <Jymmm> I need to sell the router first
[14:31:34] <kengu> jdh: it is part of the ircnetwork system. it is your unique id and if there is split and ..uumm.. conflict with nicks in the networks when merging that kind of nicks appear
[15:01:03] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: you could helox-mill that thread
[15:01:06] <Loetmichel> helix
[15:01:19] <Loetmichel> on the lamp and in the cap ;-)
[15:10:57] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I foudn the newer version with the threaded cap =)
[16:14:15] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ping
[16:26:46] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:38:37] <PCW> pong
[17:29:26] <Jymmm> PCW: Hey, check this...
http://intl-outdoor.com/2usb-mobile-device-charger-318650-xml2-sideswitch-flashlight-p-741.html
[17:30:08] <Jymmm> PCW: there is a cheaper (old) one, but no cap
[17:38:15] <PCW> That's cute
[17:38:37] <Jymmm> PCW: 900lm flashlight + charger + pwr pack in one
[19:02:17] <MattyMatt> andypugh seen these?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BT40-ER32-milling-collet-chuck/231047999995
[19:03:35] <andypugh> decent price, but my machine is BT30
[19:03:58] <MattyMatt> doh. well it it a couple years since :)
[19:04:11] <MattyMatt> I remembered the BT
[19:04:54] <andypugh> How is your machine going? Still wooden, or did you upgrade?
[19:05:34] <MattyMatt> I got the bottom half of a real one, but cnc is still wood
[19:07:14] <andypugh> How far up does the bottom half come?
[19:07:14] <MattyMatt> 300lb of cast iron xyz with a dremel bolted on atm
[19:07:34] <MattyMatt> surprisingly handy toolgrinder setup
[19:07:36] <andypugh> Ah, sounds like a job for an eBay spindle + VFD package
[19:08:01] <andypugh> Maybe copy Valen's epocy-granite spindle casting?
[19:08:22] <MattyMatt> yep, with a big angle bracket
[19:09:15] <MattyMatt> top of mine has horizontal tslots. it could be a horizontal mill just as easily
[19:11:44] <MattyMatt> I'll probably go chinese vfd on an alu/steel Z. Z on mine is heavy
[19:12:00] <MattyMatt> too heavy for a stepper
[19:13:01] <MattyMatt> it's staying manual for now tho
[19:18:36] <jp__> Valen: have you got the boards yet?
[19:40:54] <Valen> yup have 2 of them running now
[19:44:11] <jp__> cool all is well then?
[19:44:56] <CaptHindsight> Valen: what did you use for mold release? Any problems or suggestions?
[19:45:16] <CaptHindsight> casting has recently been a popular topic
[21:05:51] <Valen> CaptHindsight: where?
[21:05:57] <Valen> jp__: yes, all seems to be working
[22:04:20] <jp__> Valen: good to hear. glad it worked out.
[22:13:27] <Valen> currently its a DRO only lol
[22:14:12] <jp__> gotta start somewhere
[22:14:32] <Valen> it'll get there eventually
[22:14:36] <Valen> currently its a DNC
[22:14:42] <Valen> Dad Numerically Controlled ;->
[22:14:52] <jp__> i still have not re-wired my knee mill
