#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-08-31

[00:55:56] <pinchmesh> Does synergy and/or linuxcnc run on ubuntu 12.04 LTS??
[00:59:32] <pinchmesh> looking for a replacement for mastercam...
[01:00:51] <WalterN> pinchmesh: pyCAM
[01:01:16] <pinchmesh> ahhh! cool ... will check, thanks
[01:37:37] <zultron> pycam. ;( too many projects, too little time.
[01:58:42] <WalterN> I know right?
[02:09:55] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:09:31] <jthornton> dang gtk3 liststore is too complicated for a simple list
[09:46:59] <JT-Shop> shop cat didn't come home
[10:09:43] <skunkworks> aww
[10:38:29] <spack> well, looks like i'm no longer getting that bostomatic
[10:38:46] <spack> seller was in the hospital or something and i need to get moving
[10:38:53] <spack> so, back in the market for a machine
[10:39:53] <archivist> shame
[12:00:29] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:00:50] <awallin> hi whatsup?
[12:01:08] <IchGuckLive> burningman bigest burn day !
[12:01:59] <IchGuckLive> awallin: how far did freecad went
[12:02:33] <awallin> I didn't work on freecad lately myself - I havent' followed that recently..
[12:02:49] <IchGuckLive> ok
[12:02:56] <IchGuckLive> so still no cam at all
[12:03:05] <awallin> probably...
[12:03:13] <IchGuckLive> i need to change in the workplace to ptc creo
[12:04:10] <awallin> I'm only milling PCBs lately... with commerical CircuitCAM
[12:05:32] <IchGuckLive> m most arround with sheetcam and qcad
[12:08:07] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ustream.tv/burningman
[12:23:04] <IchGuckLive> im off a lonmg day today
[12:23:11] <IchGuckLive> by
[16:34:29] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:35:07] <spack> hmm
[16:41:30] <joebog> good morning all
[18:29:52] <andypugh> Oddly quiet tonight, but I think it is a holiday weekend in the US?
[18:30:49] <jdh> for some.
[18:31:33] <AR_> it is
[18:31:44] <AR_> but shouldnt that mean more people are online with no lives?
[18:32:02] <Chemeleon> labor day on monday
[18:32:05] <jdh> I'm in a cheap florida motel
[18:34:47] <andypugh> is that good or bad?
[18:35:09] <jdh> dumpy motel, but only $40 and it's mostly clean.
[18:35:30] <jdh> good in that I get to dive for 5 days. Bad that the bed sucks
[18:42:53] <andypugh> I am trying to summon up the enthusiasm to write some G-code for tomorrow. I am machining a 9" diameter pattern. My lathe can't swing it and my mill has 6.5" Y travel.
[18:43:51] <andypugh> Once it is circular (currently a stack of plywood squares) I can probably spin it in the Rivett.
[18:44:48] <andypugh> So I need G-code to cut the starting disk on my mill in a sequence of arc-cuts, repositioning the work between iterations.
[18:55:56] <jdh> rotary table?
[18:56:25] <andypugh> Possible in theory
[18:57:02] <andypugh> but my only real rotary table is stepper, and all the stepper drives are in a different machine.
[18:58:27] <andypugh> In other news, this is a funny looking drill chuck, is anyone familiar with the brand? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Keyless-MARVEL-Drill-Chuck-37mm-d-holds-bits-upto-1cm-d/151106645269
[19:02:44] <andypugh> My youtube channel has 150+ subscribers. I am concerned that there are 150 people in the world wierd enough to subscribe to my channel :-)
[19:05:01] <Tom_itx> consider who you enfluence and who your friends are
[19:05:54] <Tom_itx> that chuck looks like a #2 taper or thereabouts
[19:06:02] <Tom_itx> can't say i've seen one like it
[19:06:36] <andypugh> I think it it probably 1 or 0 morse actually. 1.5" overall diameter
[19:07:50] <Tom_itx> been removed with the wrong tools a few times
[19:16:17] <andypugh> I may take a punt on it, as it will fit my toolpost-boring blocks if it is MT1
[19:16:44] <andypugh> I have a feeling it is a spring and roller design.
[19:17:54] <Tom_itx> do they grip very well?
[19:18:07] <andypugh> I have no idea :-)
[19:18:25] <andypugh> And I may be wrong too,
[19:19:00] <Tom_itx> i've got a ratchet like that and i don't care for it
[19:20:19] <andypugh> They work a treat on motorcycle starters, and are used as a spanner on some milling chucks (you can use a perfectly smooth outer ring and avoid throwing the coolant as far)
[19:29:31] <TekniQue> not just motorcycle starters
[19:29:38] <TekniQue> automatic transmissions have them too
[19:30:14] <TekniQue> so they're quite tough
[19:30:34] <TekniQue> as long as you don't put enough high pressure additives into the oil to prevent them from gripping
[19:32:26] <Aero-Tec> has anyone worked out the extra depth needed for the drill hole to be deep enough for a given drill bit?
[19:32:49] <Aero-Tec> depth of the to size hole and not just the depth of point
[19:33:07] <andypugh> It depends on the drill point angle.
[19:33:26] <Aero-Tec> standard 120 deg point
[19:33:38] <andypugh> I though 112 was standard?
[19:34:32] <andypugh> Ah, no, 118
[19:34:41] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what is the Lord High Admiral's Divisions?
[19:35:05] <Tom_itx> figured you may know
[19:35:22] <andypugh> No idea I am afraid.
[19:35:24] <Aero-Tec> anyway for a 120 deg drill bit it is dia X 0.28888
[19:36:08] <Aero-Tec> or for total depth dia * 1.28888
[19:36:25] <Tom_itx> ahh.. part of the royal navy
[19:36:59] <andypugh> Yeah, seemed too obvious.
[19:37:30] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: It's a bit of trigonometry, and not a difficult bit.
[19:38:15] <Aero-Tec> true
[19:38:22] <andypugh> half the tan of half the angle times the diameter, I think?
[19:38:49] <andypugh> No, wait, too many halves there :-)
[19:39:22] <andypugh> And I just changed my mind back again :-)
[19:39:31] <andypugh> I was right first time.
[19:40:02] <Aero-Tec> I cheated
[19:40:13] <andypugh> I am not sure where you get 1.288 from.
[19:40:18] <Aero-Tec> drew it up in solid works and worked it out from there
[19:40:44] <Tom_itx> Aero-Tec, my cad cam figures that out for me
[19:40:49] <Aero-Tec> total depth to drill
[19:41:08] <andypugh> Seriously? I must be old, I would have gone to paper and pencil first, except that I can do a single triangle in my head.
[19:41:12] <Aero-Tec> I do mostly hand coding
[19:41:43] <Tom_itx> it's all part of adding a drill to my cad andypugh
[19:41:53] <Tom_itx> it asks you which you want
[19:42:41] <andypugh> I admit, I have never even bothered. If I really care I note the point where the lips are fully cutting on the DRO.
[19:42:56] <Aero-Tec> cam is nice for a part that is always the same
[19:43:08] <andypugh> Because there is no guarantee that any of my drills are anywhere near the notional angle.
[19:43:13] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:43:24] <Aero-Tec> I have parts where every things the same other then the dis of thread
[19:43:32] <Tom_itx> you set the drill angle up in the tool table of the cad
[19:43:32] <Aero-Tec> dia
[19:44:58] <Aero-Tec> so instead of having a ton of part files, I make it where I edit a few variables and it comes out right
[19:46:16] <Aero-Tec> I have it down to one file does all parts and variations of parts
[19:46:43] <Aero-Tec> some have called it Gcode abuse
[19:46:44] <Tom_itx> weren't you the one working on that subroutine full of vars?
[19:46:52] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:46:54] <Aero-Tec> yes
[19:46:55] <Tom_itx> haha
[19:47:58] <Aero-Tec> I can make a full range of things with just a little editing, no code changes
[19:48:28] <Aero-Tec> and I have it setup to where I can assign each version a number
[19:48:32] <Tom_itx> just so you can remember what all the vars do
[19:48:43] <Aero-Tec> so lots of things are make with just one edit
[19:49:10] <Aero-Tec> change one number and you have a whole new part
[19:49:34] <Aero-Tec> they are documented as to what they do
[19:50:12] <Aero-Tec> works for me
[19:50:58] <Aero-Tec> that way when I do a tweak or a change I do not have to go through 50 plus files and edit them all
[19:51:28] <Aero-Tec> as I am usually in a hurry and do just the one I need
[19:52:18] <Aero-Tec> then I have to recheck all the time to see if new update was done to said file, if I remember to even look
[19:53:21] <Aero-Tec> I end up with way to many sub version of files that I have no idea what have need updated with what
[19:55:11] <andypugh> The Albrechr Überchuck looks pretty cool: http://www.albrechtchucks.com/downloads/Albrecht_Catalog.pdf
[19:56:16] <andypugh> A hex key drives a worm drive that draws on a morse-angle collet. I can believe them when they say it grips well.
[19:56:53] <andypugh> There is a 4-stage mechanical advantage there.
[20:04:14] <Aero-Tec> looks cool
[20:04:49] <Aero-Tec> wonder if the hype they say is true
[20:05:02] <Aero-Tec> some things look a tad over stated
[20:05:52] <Aero-Tec> there rigidity and dampening chart, several time better then the other options
[20:06:19] <Aero-Tec> not sure who they come up with that one
[20:07:18] <Aero-Tec> it true it would allow for much higher material removal
[20:07:41] <Aero-Tec> price is sure up there
[20:14:02] <andypugh> I don't know what tooling normally costs, I got 25 holders for £75 and I am resisting buying any more. :-)
[20:14:43] <andypugh> Though I would buy a super-short drill chuck if I saw one.
[20:15:20] <andypugh> (or one of those ER collet chucks where the collet is inside the machine taper).
[20:15:27] <andypugh> I may enf up making my own.
[20:15:38] <Tom_itx> there ya go
[20:19:00] <andypugh> Here we are, they call them Zero-Z for obvious reasons: http://mfgnewsweb.com/archives/eastec_shows/may06/rego.htm
[20:50:00] <Aero-Tec> I cheat
[20:50:37] <Aero-Tec> I use a collet
[20:51:59] <Aero-Tec> R8 for my unit, but morris taper ones are available as well
[20:52:34] <Aero-Tec> andypugh, what is your spindle?
[20:54:04] <andypugh> Well, it came from Harrison as 30 INT, but I made it BT30 with a pneumatic drawbar, then got a lot of SK30 toolholders so now it is a BT30 / SK30 hybrid (takes both with the right pull-studs)
[21:06:04] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: what's up?
[22:11:22] <WalterN> CaptHindsight: I was wondering what defines the value of a small machine shop
[22:12:07] <WalterN> heh
[22:12:22] <WalterN> I mean like... I'm looking at buying this machine shop I used to work at
[22:14:18] <CaptHindsight> buy low, sell high, unless it's just for fun
[22:15:07] <WalterN> lol
[22:15:12] <WalterN> define low
[22:16:00] <CaptHindsight> what are you planning on doing with the machine shop?
[22:18:16] <WalterN> starting off, continuing with the way its been going... its a small job shop with one or two guys working there at any given time
[22:18:30] <CaptHindsight> there's no quick answer to your question
[22:19:57] <WalterN> when/if things start to get cozy, I want to use it as a platform to design, make, and sell robotics... like the rapid prototyping stuff we've talked about
[22:22:40] <WalterN> but thats for later... one of the first things that needs to happen is a database needs to be set up for all the prints, programs, and related things
[22:26:03] <andypugh> No, the first thing to happen is for you to work out who your customers are and where the money comes from.
[22:27:16] <andypugh> Then think some more about the money. Then some more. Having great internal processes is useless unless you are making stuff for people in exchange for money,
[22:28:10] <andypugh> I state this in a hectoring tone as someone who has never actually run any sort of business. So I may be entirely wrong.
[22:50:52] <Tom_itx> it takes time to grow a business
[22:51:06] <Tom_itx> needs lots of water and sunshine
[22:53:16] <andypugh> I have seen it from the other side, where I was employed by the new owners of a successful small business that had been around for about 30 years. The original founders had got old and wanted to retire, and had made enough to make that a very comforatble option.
[22:55:39] <andypugh> The new owners thought that the business was the products and the employees. They were wrong. The business was all the people that the original owners knew in the local engineering companies (predominantly Ford and BAE)
[22:58:38] <andypugh> Their niche was actually being far smaller than the big boys. One office contained the three mechanical engineers, the 2 electronic engineers and the 3 software guys, on adjacent tables. We could decide what components we needed, ask the electrical/computer guys if the interface was OK, place an order and have it the next day. To pass to the wiremen and machine shop in the next room
[23:00:42] <andypugh> Working inside Ford as I do now, it would take a month of meetings to decide a spec, then a software-change process, then we would place an order, through a technically cheaper intermediary and get the exact same RS part 3 months after deciding that it would do the job.
[23:02:25] <andypugh> Huge companies are useless at one-off test rigs. Mechtric were near-perfect. But the little company needs to be constantly reminding hundreds of people in the big company that they exist.
[23:03:40] <andypugh> Mechtric went bankrupt under the new owners, that is why I now work at Ford.
[23:04:12] <Aero-Tec> andypugh, you got pix of your machine?
[23:04:56] <andypugh> Which machine?
[23:05:18] <Aero-Tec> guess the collet idea is out, should have known better then to even suggest it
[23:05:22] <Aero-Tec> the mill
[23:05:28] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/user/blyndpew/videos
[23:05:35] <Aero-Tec> how many do you have?
[23:05:56] <andypugh> (Harrison Demo, or More Hobbing, or Pulley)
[23:06:43] <andypugh> I have a lathe/mill a Harrison Universal miller and a Rivett 608.
[23:09:20] <Tom_itx> andypugh, any desire to go it on your own in a business?
[23:09:48] <andypugh> Absolutely not.
[23:09:53] <Tom_itx> (it's not for everyone)
[23:10:33] <andypugh> I was technically a limited company for a while. Working as a contractor to Ford.
[23:10:52] <andypugh> I didn't like it.
[23:11:06] <Tom_itx> trial employee period?
[23:11:15] <andypugh> Do you have "Dragon's Den" in the US?
[23:11:38] <Tom_itx> not that i'm aware of
[23:12:29] <Tom_itx> maybe so, but i've never seen it
[23:13:10] <andypugh> OK, it's a TV programme where would-be businessmen pitch their ideas to very rich and succesful business folk, they typically want to sell a 20% share in the business for some amount of cash.
[23:13:20] <Tom_itx> http://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/index.html
[23:13:41] <Tom_itx> never seen it
[23:14:15] <andypugh> I would be the one who came on and said "I have this cool idea, I want to sell 100% of the business right now and move on to the next fun idea"
[23:14:25] <Tom_itx> heh
[23:15:29] <Tom_itx> that's the problem with business.. having a cool idea doesn't always fly
[23:16:07] <andypugh> But a business needs a cool idea.
[23:16:40] <andypugh> even if that is "You bring grain, we make it into flour for you"
[23:18:59] <Tom_itx> you need to do it 'er' than anyone else... cheap er, fast er, bett er
[23:21:18] <Tom_itx> you bring me grain we make it into flour, oil and livestock feed for you
[23:23:24] <Tom_itx> but having and keeping good contacts will make or break a company
[23:33:07] <andypugh> For unrelated reasons I just "stalked" Harrison, who made my miller.
[23:33:11] <andypugh> http://goo.gl/maps/ag2cS
[23:33:52] <andypugh> Still a pretty big factory, even when we tend to think that the UK doesn't make anything any more.
[23:35:17] <andypugh> (And it straddles the river Spen, which is quite amusing)
[23:40:04] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Rivett has a strange "er". I think they traded on "best" to people who didn't know that it didn't matter. (Like government procurement). My 608 cost $1600 in 1936. That was £500 when a Myford ML4 was £7.
[23:41:42] <andypugh> They made 363 lathes between 1922 and 1936. And kept building bigger factories.
[23:42:18] <andypugh> It's the most peculiar business model I have seen.
[23:57:06] <andypugh> Good grief! Is that the time?