#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-08-18

[00:53:45] <NickParker> so i ordered my 6i25 thursday afternoon and it got to me today around noon
[00:53:48] <NickParker> im impressed
[01:33:23] <KimK_1> spack: Maybe I can help a little, I don't know the model numbers, what is a 315?
[01:35:35] <awallin> ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Bostomatic-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-/321004395296
[01:51:26] <awallin> hmm http://www.freesteel.co.uk/wpblog/2013/08/five-axis-fly/
[02:36:29] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:42:03] <mrsun> hmm what can it be when i do not get a plot of the part in linuxcnc?
[02:42:10] <mrsun> it runs the parts fine
[02:42:17] <mrsun> but i do not get the lines outlining the part =)
[02:42:20] <mrsun> the backplot i get
[03:02:37] <awallin> you should see the toolpath
[03:03:06] <awallin> possibly the part-outline if your g-code uses tool-offset
[03:03:21] <archivist> just zoom out far enough to see it and get it in the window
[03:07:58] <mrsun> awallin, only thing i see is the backplot of where the tool has been
[03:08:27] <archivist> click the broom
[03:08:28] <mrsun> archivist, but i can see the lines for where the tool has been and its aligned in the window so i can follow the cutting but the actual part outline isnt there? :)
[03:08:48] <awallin> have you tweaked the AXIS colors? graphics working otherwise ok?
[03:08:55] <mrsun> archivist, this has been so for a while now, even with restarts and everything =)
[03:08:57] <archivist> part outline?
[03:09:01] <mrsun> awallin, havent touched stuff like that
[03:09:20] <mrsun> archivist, yes usaly you can see the part being cut then you see the lines where the tool has been when machine is running
[03:09:35] <archivist> there is no facility to draw the part yet
[03:09:49] <mrsun> archivist, eh ... the outline of the part has been showing before ...
[03:10:21] <archivist> the white lines to show the future cut path you mean
[03:10:26] <mrsun> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/images/axis-currentandselected.png like that
[03:10:30] <mrsun> archivist, ahh yes
[03:10:33] <mrsun> its those i mean
[03:16:13] <awallin> does it work for some g-code and not for something else?
[03:19:07] <mrsun> i do not see the "linuxcnc" thing when i start the program either
[03:19:14] <mrsun> or emc2 or whatever it says
[03:32:36] <mrsun> haha
[03:32:45] <mrsun> show program prevew was chcked out :P
[04:21:23] <archivist> do not let arduinos or other junk near your 3d printer http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23727229
[04:33:56] <OhmEye> lol
[04:34:23] <awallin> is that due to lost steps, or?
[04:34:59] <OhmEye> An arduino RUNS my 3D printer. :) And I haven't had any failures like that in many dozens of kg printed.
[04:38:07] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:26:38] <archivist> awallin, I think I see a number if different errors , missed steps is one type
[05:28:15] <awallin> some arduino controls don't have much acceleration control do they? "full speed ahead"
[05:30:18] <archivist> some naive programmers out there without the knowledge of acceleration, machine friction etc
[06:54:06] <ReadError> is there any easy way to time a job?
[06:54:21] <ReadError> not really estimate just log when it starts and stops
[06:55:25] <archivist> buy an antique clocking in clock and some cards for it
[06:55:53] <archivist> or quill and ink
[06:56:22] <archivist> I am terrible at recording jobs too :)
[06:56:36] <ReadError> i just want some good estimates of how long certain toolpaths take
[06:56:48] <ReadError> some stuff i randomly figured out and can set my cellphone timer
[06:57:35] <archivist> this job I am running right now is easy as I know time per pass and number of passes
[06:58:48] <archivist> but your question is a regular in the channel, someone needs to write some code
[07:01:06] <pdurbin> is there an open bug/issue for this?
[07:01:24] <archivist> axis knows everything having parsed the gcode and drawn the plot, it could be summing the approximate total time and then showing a progress percentage, although it cannot know the g0 timings
[07:02:35] <archivist> it is the unknowns, and has the user dragged the feed rate percentage slider etc
[07:13:08] <ReadError> archivist: yea that would be awesome, something that takes the gcode speed and the slider speed, max speed, etc
[07:15:15] <archivist> we await your coding :)
[07:24:35] <archivist> ReadError, http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/21-axis/611-axis-estimate-of-machining-time
[07:33:21] <ReadError> lol
[07:33:25] <ReadError> 4 years ago
[07:38:21] <archivist> something was in the back of my mind, so went for a search :)
[08:15:09] <jthornton> wow that's old
[08:16:03] <jthornton> just run your code in a sim configured to match your machine
[08:17:48] <jp_> anyone know if there are any errors in the 7i77 manual to be aware of?
[08:19:04] <jthornton> none that I know of
[08:19:13] <jthornton> just get the latest from mesa
[08:21:25] <jp_> time to clean up the mill panel and put in the 7i77
[08:39:55] <Tom_itx> ReadError, i put at couple timers on mine
[08:40:40] <Tom_itx> one for each tool and an overall one
[08:42:41] <ReadError> Tom_itx: how did you manage that?
[08:43:04] <ReadError> VNC is nice to monitor remotely, but the overhead is so high
[08:43:14] <ReadError> i may just get a cheap ip kvm
[08:44:41] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/postgui.hal
[09:26:13] <spack> KimK_1: i can't find any evidence of a 315 existing
[09:27:06] <spack> it looks a lot like a 312, but some stuff is on the opposite side of the machine and it has BDC3200 instead of SPC-II but it could have been upgraded at some point
[09:27:52] <spack> awallin's link is the machine
[10:35:54] <taiden> afternoon everyone
[10:36:08] <taiden> i'm having issues calling a subroutine. i've used subroutines in the past with no issues.
[10:36:30] <taiden> for some reason, after the last move in the subroutine, it stops the parent toolpath
[10:37:09] <taiden> i've scoured the end of the subroutine for clues and have turned off all end program m-codes such that it matches my existing, working subroutine exampls
[10:37:11] <taiden> examples
[10:37:24] <taiden> i turned them off by commenting them out with parens
[10:37:29] <taiden> any wisdom?
[10:37:55] <andypugh> Any chance that a Windows-style line-end found its way into the file?
[10:38:39] <andypugh> (And I rather thought that a subroutine was meant to have an M2 outside the subroutine definition)
[10:39:17] <nspiel> i just went to a swap meet and they had a small sherline cnc lather for sale without controller for $300
[10:39:44] <andypugh> So you now own a small sherline CNC lathe without a controller?
[10:39:48] <Tom_itx> they're pretty light weight. i have a sherline mill
[10:39:53] <Tom_itx> but i have fun with it anyway
[10:40:22] <Tom_itx> i could use the head to make a rotary axis :)
[10:40:44] <nspiel> i havent bought it yet. i dunno if its worth it
[10:40:58] <Tom_itx> i'd sink my money into some steel over aluminum
[10:40:59] <andypugh> Only you can answer that question.
[10:41:21] <Tom_itx> i've had mine for probalby 20 yrs or more
[10:41:29] <taiden> How would I check for a windows style line end?
[10:41:42] <taiden> i wouldn't be surprised, the toolpath was generated on a windows computer, all my others were written on linux by hand
[10:41:53] <taiden> and this is the only toolpath that has given me this issue
[10:42:00] <taiden> i also have added the M2 to the outside
[10:42:12] <taiden> the general conventions match my subroutiens that function fine
[10:49:24] <spack> man, i can't much reference to a bostomatic 315 on the internet
[10:49:41] <spack> i found just the minimum evidence necessary to believe they probably existed
[10:49:43] <spack> but not more
[10:49:44] <spack> lol
[10:51:43] <taiden> I'm totally stumped here. Everything looks perfectly fine. It runs the entire subroutine and then quits
[10:51:55] <taiden> no error message or anything
[10:54:11] <nspiel> what are the most popular stepper drivers for mesa cards?
[10:55:34] <taiden> LOL
[10:55:39] <taiden> it's always something stupid right?
[10:55:43] <archivist> yes
[10:55:47] <taiden> I was editing subroutine.NGC instead of subroutine.ngc
[10:56:01] * taiden face in hands
[10:56:38] <archivist> I have just restarted a cur because attempt 1 was not that good
[10:56:43] <archivist> cut
[10:57:26] <andypugh> nspiel: Define "popular". Do you mean the most numerous, or the ones their owners like the most?
[10:58:20] <andypugh> archivist: Didn't they attempt to use restarting curs to solve the longitude problem?
[10:59:16] <archivist> dunno....cannot translate that tyop to longitude :0
[11:00:19] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_of_sympathy
[11:00:20] <CaptHindsight> nspiel: lots of http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers
[11:00:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/gecko-drivers
[11:00:53] <nspiel> thanks capthindsight
[11:01:13] <Tom_itx> nspiel, i use geckos for my steppers
[11:01:13] <nspiel> and andy the ones people are most happy with
[11:01:36] <Tom_itx> and am happy with
[11:01:55] <Tom_itx> 203v
[11:02:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.leadshine.com/producttypes.aspx?type=products&category=stepper-products&producttype=stepper-drives
[11:02:20] <andypugh> There is a specific firmware for the Mesa 7i76 to connect directly to the http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives/g540.html
[11:04:02] <ReadError> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/gecko-drivers/3-axis-dsp-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a
[11:04:04] <ReadError> this is new
[11:04:27] <archivist> I am reasonably happy with the badged chines drives I use (probably Longshine)
[11:04:44] <andypugh> I am perfectly content with http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/stepper-drivers/302-m542.html and they have been running my machine for years.
[11:05:36] <spack> i'm using a leadshine at work, it works and was incredibly cheap/free
[11:05:46] <Tom_itx> andypugh, those are discontinued
[11:05:49] <andypugh> ReadError 60V 6A and easy wiring looks very useful.
[11:05:49] <archivist> ah yes leadshine not longshine
[11:06:14] <archivist> looks the same as the arc euro I am using except for the name
[11:06:16] <andypugh> Tom_itx: That's an indication of how long mine have been no trouble for :-)
[11:07:23] <ReadError> 1/64 microstepping?
[11:07:24] <ReadError> jebus
[11:07:43] <archivist> 1/2 is enough
[11:08:17] <CaptHindsight> what if you need 1um steps for your 2mm lead screws?
[11:08:24] <ReadError> Anti resonance for low and middle speed
[11:08:28] <ReadError> this sounds interesting
[11:08:46] <spack> i need up to 1/16 for some stuff, but i wouldn't trust much higher than that
[11:16:15] <Tom_itx> do you really notice the 1/16 microsteps?
[11:17:17] <archivist> CaptHindsight, that resolution is snake oil
[11:18:28] <archivist> more people should read http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[11:21:01] <CaptHindsight> so you just oversize the motor by 100x, problem solved :)
[11:25:23] <archivist> nope
[11:25:43] <archivist> the magnetics are not that linear between steps
[11:27:04] <archivist> only if you add optical feedback and put it in a loop could you get that resolution/accuracy
[11:40:03] <andypugh> archivist: It would need to be a 51200 count encoder even then.. (maybe a job for a resolver)
[11:40:35] <archivist> or someone using linear scales
[11:41:15] <archivist> how is that hardinge scale coming on?
[12:38:57] <IchGuckLive> B) hi
[12:41:42] <Jymmm> archivist: Have you ever come across a flaring tool for tiny diameter, very thin wall tubing?
[12:43:32] <archivist> I would use a blunt watchmakers/clockmakers taper broach/reamer , or just make something
[12:45:44] <Jymmm> archivist: ok, thanks.
[12:46:42] <archivist> but depends on what kind or amount of flaring
[14:51:17] <gene78> anybody about that knows what an error reported when debug=0x7FFFFFF means?
[14:53:03] <gene78> looks like this in the terminal
[14:53:09] <gene78> Xlib.protocol.request.QueryExtension
[14:53:10] <gene78> parse error?
[14:53:12] <gene78> Unable to instantiate [/dev/video0]
[15:12:59] <KimK_1> spack: I've not run across a Bostomatic like that one, but it doesn't seem too unusual. Is that a small tool carousel hanging at right in the background?
[15:48:14] <mrsun> ballscrew mounted to the router ... now i guess the fun part comes, to align everything to test stuff out before i rip every single piece apart again to paint it :P
[16:36:08] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:39:41] <andypugh> OK, so why is grub only showing me one kernel, even though update-grub finds three of them?
[17:06:57] <skunkworks> I think kim was having the same problem a few days ago.. I don't know he figured it out
[17:09:53] <spack> KimK_1: i assumed so, but i'm not sure
[17:09:56] <spack> i don't have it yet
[17:14:01] <spack> KimK_1: i know almost nothing about it except what's in the photos. not sure i can power it just yet. i'm hoping it runs like he says, that will mean i don't need to buy any impossible to find parts....
[17:14:22] <spack> KimK_1: i'm also worried about how the heck to get it past a garage door
[17:21:10] <mhaberler> andypugh: check if there's a corresponding initrd in /boot
[17:21:54] <mhaberler> if not, do a 'update-initramfs -c -k <version' to generate one
[17:22:11] <mhaberler> old ubuntus tend to forget that step
[17:22:40] <mhaberler> then update-grub again
[17:31:36] <Parre> Hey! Planning on building a cnc router out of aluminium extrusions. I want about 1x1m work area and i'm wondering if 2020 extrusion will be good enough or if i need to step up to 3030 or maybe 4040 extrusions?
[17:42:58] <andypugh> mhaberler: I figured it out, "Previous kernel versions" is a link to a sub-menu, not a list heading....
[17:44:23] <andypugh> Parre: 20x20 sounds a bit small to me.
[17:44:57] <Parre> andypugh: thought so too :p
[17:45:32] <andypugh> Put it this way, you will only regret being oversize when you first buy it. You will regret being undersize for ever.
[17:47:13] <Parre> andypugh: Thanks. needed someone to tell me that :D
[18:26:50] <AR_> mm
[18:26:52] <AR_> http://imgur.com/a/FHOS1
[18:53:27] <Aero-Tec> wanting to set up my tool table properly
[18:53:58] <Aero-Tec> been running with my own system, but time to do things the right way, if there is such a thing
[18:55:11] <Aero-Tec> in the JT tut it says to have a tool loaded and fixture selected for zeroing the tool table
[18:55:52] <Aero-Tec> so what if you have no tool table yet, so no tools setup
[18:56:17] <Aero-Tec> and can one use tool zero for setting up tool table?
[18:56:37] <Aero-Tec> any feed back would be great
[18:59:37] <andypugh> I think you can use tool zero (a non-tool with no offsets and no tool table entry) in theory, but in practice it has nowhere to store a diameter, and M6 T0 means "unload tool"
[19:00:08] <andypugh> So, it is more normal for Tool 1 to be the no-offsets tool, because at least it has somewhere to store the other tool data.
[19:00:40] <andypugh> And you can just create a tool table with tooledit.
[19:01:20] <Aero-Tec> so tool zero has no tool offset to set?
[19:01:22] <andypugh> Make entries for each tool, with the info about them, but no lengths, then touch them off.
[19:01:48] <andypugh> Indeed.
[19:02:07] <Aero-Tec> I just set up a manual homing system with a dial gage
[19:02:18] <andypugh> Which would be fine, as it would save you the danger of accidentally giving it an offset by pressing the wrong touch-off option.
[19:02:22] <Aero-Tec> and have no idea what to do next
[19:02:44] <andypugh> But neither does it have anywhere to store tool diameter.
[19:03:25] <Aero-Tec> do I home with the new machine zero I just setup?
[19:03:33] <Aero-Tec> then what?
[19:04:05] <Aero-Tec> what about the fixture?
[19:04:27] <Aero-Tec> when I set that if does not have the tool table option any more
[19:04:59] <Aero-Tec> so does selecting fixture auto to zeroing tool table?
[19:05:16] <andypugh> I don't know, I have no idea what anyone means by a "fixture"
[19:05:18] <Aero-Tec> if so why would it matter about what tool is loaded?
[19:06:42] <Aero-Tec> also would like to know whats the difference with setting home zero and zeroing tool table?
[19:07:22] <Aero-Tec> my head is swimming with offsets and wondering how they all fit together
[19:07:34] <andypugh> Mine too, I am going to sleep.
[19:07:53] <Aero-Tec> night
[19:08:04] <Aero-Tec> thanks for the help
[19:42:54] <KimK_2> Aero-Tec: What kind of machine are you working with?
[19:44:03] <Aero-Tec> lathe
[19:44:14] <KimK_2> Ah, OK.
[19:44:20] <Aero-Tec> just got a home system for the x axis
[19:44:41] <KimK_2> That's good
[19:44:42] <Aero-Tec> wanting to get away from doing a cut and measure
[19:45:08] <Aero-Tec> set up a dial gage to zero the x axis
[19:45:22] <Aero-Tec> but now I am lost at what to do
[19:45:40] <Aero-Tec> tool one is not zeroed to the new home
[19:45:42] <KimK_2> Stepper motors and no encoders?
[19:46:01] <Aero-Tec> servo with encoders
[19:46:14] <KimK_2> OK, good. And home switches?
[19:46:23] <Aero-Tec> just a quick zero setup
[19:46:26] <Aero-Tec> no
[19:46:30] <Aero-Tec> dial gage
[19:46:48] <Aero-Tec> it was quick and easy to do
[19:47:34] <Aero-Tec> so does the tool selected do anything when setting the tool table zero?
[19:48:20] <KimK_2> I think there's also available the "home encoders" method, where you have witness lines that are "pretty close" that you manually jog to, and then when you home, it finds the encoder index exactly.
[19:48:29] <Aero-Tec> I have been just setting work offset to tool one and setting all other tools from that
[19:48:53] <Aero-Tec> cool
[19:48:54] <KimK_2> Your dial gage would serve nicely as a witness line on that axis, if you like.
[19:49:07] <Aero-Tec> that would work good, if I had a index
[19:49:18] <Aero-Tec> the encodes I have right now do not
[19:49:27] <KimK_2> Ah, servos and no index? OK, too bad.
[19:49:51] <KimK_2> I guess you'll be looking for a second dial indicator, then?
[19:50:08] <Aero-Tec> so how much do you know about setting home and zeroing things out?
[19:50:15] <Aero-Tec> and about offsets?
[19:50:31] <Aero-Tec> I have several
[19:50:47] <Aero-Tec> one had lost its ball end
[19:50:57] <Aero-Tec> so it worked out good for that I did
[19:51:31] <Aero-Tec> was a quick hack job but it works well
[19:51:51] <Aero-Tec> now I just have to work out offset and setting things up
[19:51:58] <Valen> jp_: you around?
[19:52:27] <KimK_2> Well, I can describe the situation on a mill, where you have more flexibility (you're not confined to being on-center, you can have seperate fixtures on the table at one time, etc.) and then you can use your imagination to transfer to a lathe.
[19:53:03] <Aero-Tec> what the zero fixture thing all about?
[19:53:19] <KimK_2> This is my preference, but there are many ways to skin the cat, others may differ. Any way that works for you is fine.
[19:53:39] <Aero-Tec> I have been using zero to work piece
[19:54:21] <Aero-Tec> I have no idea what I am doing here
[19:54:52] <KimK_2> Do you have fixed changeable tools, like a turret or a set of aloris slip-on tool post holders?
[19:54:52] <Aero-Tec> JT tut is of some help but what if the tool selected has not been zeroed
[19:55:24] <Aero-Tec> what good is selecting fixture and tool when tool is not zeroed yet?
[19:55:58] <Aero-Tec> also hw does home work into all this?
[19:56:04] <Aero-Tec> how
[19:56:07] <KimK_2> Do you have fixed changeable tools, like a turret or a set of aloris slip-on tool post holders?
[19:56:34] <KimK_2> Or is your tool different every time you change it?
[19:56:38] <Aero-Tec> set of aloris slip-on tool post holders
[19:56:43] <KimK_2> OK, great.
[19:56:47] <Aero-Tec> lots of them
[19:57:02] <Aero-Tec> all zeroed to tool one
[19:57:20] <Aero-Tec> so I zero tool one and all others are zeroed as well
[19:58:11] <KimK_2> OK, you're using the "reference tool" method? That's fine, although I prefer not to do it that way.
[19:58:21] <Aero-Tec> but I zero the work piece on offset 1
[19:58:39] <Aero-Tec> for a mill I would not use it.
[19:58:54] <Aero-Tec> but for a lathe it made sense
[19:59:16] <Aero-Tec> now I want to home and have all tools homed from that
[19:59:31] <Aero-Tec> or zeroed from that I should say
[20:01:37] <KimK_2> You can do the mill method on a lathe. On a mill, set the tool offsets relative to the table, with a fixture activated that you always leave at 0,0,0. I prefer G59.3 for this, because everybody and his dog writes something to G54. On a lathe, maybe relative to the chuck face, if you always use the same chuck for everything, maybe the spindle nose if you're swapping chucks all the time. Whatever works.
[20:03:31] <KimK_2> Then your reference is a fixed location/distance, and all your tools have an offset relative to it.
[20:04:30] <KimK_2> Then you offset for your fixture/part holder (soft jaws?) and set part zero where you want it.
[20:06:31] <KimK_2> You can have multiple fixtures on a lathe, but they'll have to all be on-center, just different Z distances. Does any of this halp?
[20:06:45] <KimK_2> Ha, s/halp/help/
[20:10:37] <KimK_2> Here's a YouTube video where the guy uses a USB microscope to set tool offsets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb0IQPHbU0g
[20:10:38] <z256> (zb0IQPHbU0g) "DIY Optical tool setter for a Haas lathe" by "MuellerNick" is "Tech" - Length: 0:03:45
[20:11:07] <KimK_2> Ha, thanks, z256, great minds think alike?
[20:11:43] <z256> did you have eggs and ham this morning too ?
[20:11:50] <z256> me either
[20:15:06] <KimK_2> Aero-Tec: So did any of this help?
[20:15:57] <Aero-Tec> reading it now
[20:16:57] <KimK_2> I'll check back in a bit
[20:17:17] <Aero-Tec> I would like to understand home and what that does and how other things relate to home
[20:18:41] <Aero-Tec> also what the differince from fixture zeroing and work zeroing?
[20:18:47] <Aero-Tec> oops
[20:18:50] <KimK_2> Home is the machine reference zero, G53's 0,0,0. It's a known location that the machine (hopefully) can get back to upon power up.
[20:18:57] <Aero-Tec> difference
[20:19:45] <KimK_2> I think those are basically the same thing: fixture, work holder, part holder.
[20:19:46] <Aero-Tec> ok, so how do you zero tool offset one to home?
[20:20:43] <Aero-Tec> jp said something about using fixture setting to set tool table zero
[20:20:50] <Aero-Tec> not sure how that works out
[20:21:21] <z256> whats a good onn off value for teacup heatbed ?
[20:21:26] <z256> oops
[20:22:23] <KimK_2> You have to decide on your reference location, what do you want to use to set your tools to? When you're setting your tool lengths, you want your fixture offset shut off. LinuxCNC doesn't have a good way to do that so reserve one fixture for 0,0,0.
[20:28:00] <Aero-Tec> I am using tool 1
[20:28:38] <Aero-Tec> but would like to be able to set home and have it set zero for tool one as well
[20:29:02] <Aero-Tec> will have to look at it more
[20:30:10] <KimK_2> If you can get Z homed, your tool Z offsets will be as they were. To do the same on X, I guess you'll need another dial indicator.
[20:34:08] <KimK_2> I think there's a home method that ignores everything, "just home right here". I've never used it.
[20:34:27] <KimK_2> It would be in the integrator
[20:34:32] <KimK_2> Oops
[20:34:44] <KimK_2> It would be in the integrator's manual in the homing section
[20:35:09] <KimK_2> Back in a bit
[20:56:02] <spack> KimK_2: do you have experience with bostomatics?
[20:58:29] <KimK_2> spack: No, but went to survey one a few weeks ago. Nothing has happened with it yet though.
[21:00:03] <spack> which model?
[21:01:34] <KimK_2> I don't recall, but it was a 5-axis.
[21:02:03] <KimK_2> XYZBC
[21:02:48] <KimK_2> It had a small carousel too.
[21:06:47] <Aero-Tec> I zero Z to the work
[21:07:04] <Aero-Tec> x is now zeroed by dial gage
[21:07:25] <Aero-Tec> I hope to have it zeroed using a gage
[21:08:03] <KimK_2> Oh, OK, I thought you had the one dial on Z. Sorry, I was confused.
[21:08:56] <Aero-Tec> back to hacking away at this to figure it out
[21:21:00] <spack> KimK_2: nice
[21:21:39] <spack> main thing i'm concerned with at this point is getting what is probably a 93" tall machine through what is probably an 84" high garage door
[21:30:25] <Tom_itx> we had to remove the z servo on one once to get it inside
[21:30:41] <Tom_itx> then cut a hole in an exhisting celing for clearance
[21:31:37] <nspiel> Hi, i am reading the linuxcnc manuals and I am having a hard time understanding what the base period is. Can anybody help clarify?
[21:32:34] <Tom_itx> nspiel, are you using mesa cards?
[21:32:43] <nspiel> yep.
[21:32:44] <Tom_itx> you don't need the base period, rather the servo period
[21:33:09] <nspiel> so the base period is for servo communication without mesa cards from the parallel port?
[21:33:44] <skunkworks> base period would be for things like software step generation - or software pwm generation (high speed stuff that your mesa card does instead)
[21:33:59] <nspiel> right, ok. That makes sense now. Thank you
[21:34:08] <Tom_itx> it's the base timing unit for all events
[21:34:11] <Tom_itx> i would say
[21:34:44] <Tom_itx> you add things to the servo thread and the base thread in the hal file
[21:35:23] <spack> Tom_itx: heh, pretty sure i at least won't have to modify the ceiling
[21:35:33] <spack> was removing/replacing the z servo pretty straightforward?
[21:35:49] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:36:02] <Tom_itx> it was on a small fadal
[21:36:07] <spack> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAKE-OFFER-Used-Bostomatic-Model-315-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-/321004395296?ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:3160
[21:36:56] <skunkworks> sad day http://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo_motors_drives/190882-sanyo_denki_cw_ccw_step_direction_mode.html
[21:37:00] <spack> i guess there might be something unboltable in that sheet metal box on top
[21:40:39] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, can't win em all
[21:41:08] <Tom_itx> it'll take just as long with mach3
[21:43:05] <nspiel> has anyone optimized their systems PID constants by characterizing system dynamics?
[21:56:15] <nspiel> also, what is TWOPASS? Can anyone clarify? I'm having a hard time understanding
[22:01:14] <Tom_itx> sry, haven't heard that one yet
[22:08:11] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/starting-emc.html
[22:08:45] <Tom_itx> looks like it may be a new naming convention
[22:10:31] <Tom_itx> not sure
[22:14:45] <nspiel> yep thats where i read it
[22:15:28] <Tom_itx> i'm pretty sure i still use an older method and am not familiar with that yet
[22:17:12] <Tom_itx> i guess i have used it a couple times in that i have named a couple functions
[22:17:27] <Tom_itx> but didn't know it was TWOPASS :)
[22:18:14] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks, you still around?
[22:27:47] <skunkworks> yes?
[22:28:27] <Aero-Tec> can I pick your brain for a bit?
[22:29:04] <nspiel> can anyone elaborate on what Neutral Message Language is?
[22:30:18] <t12> when machining flat parts, as a cutout, where you would normally use tabs
[22:30:19] <Aero-Tec> I would love some help with understanding offset and homing and how they all work together
[22:30:19] <skunkworks> nspiel: I think you are getting too deep...
[22:30:27] <t12> is there some way that the full machining is accomplished without tabs?
[22:30:38] <t12> like if all the surfaces the tabs would be on matter
[22:30:42] <Jymmm> Google is your friend... NML - Neutral Message Language provides a mechanism for handling multiple types of messages in the same buffer as well as simplifying the interface for encoding and decoding buffers in neutral format and the configuration mechanism.
[22:30:51] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: what is your issue?
[22:30:58] <t12> custom jig to hold the whole mess? machine part and then screw it down?
[22:31:25] <Aero-Tec> I just set up a dial gage for the X axis of my lathe
[22:31:34] <nspiel> Skunkwork, i want to learn everything needed to code the HAL and INI files in order to get my scara working
[22:31:52] <skunkworks> you don't need to know nml then.
[22:31:59] <Jymmm> nspiel: Again, google is your friend... http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html
[22:32:06] <Aero-Tec> up till now I would zero my tool one and every other tool would be zeroed as well
[22:33:17] <Aero-Tec> I would like to zero with dial and have that zero tool one and that would zero the rest
[22:33:43] <Aero-Tec> so what does homing really do?
[22:33:54] <Aero-Tec> I know it zeros the machine
[22:33:56] <Jymmm> Aero-Tec: try that agian with some punctuation this time.
[22:34:05] <nspiel> i meant more physically what is is
[22:34:07] <nspiel> it is
[22:34:08] <Aero-Tec> but how does that zero or effect the axis?
[22:35:09] <Jymmm> nspiel: http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/nml-tutorial.pdf
[22:35:37] <Jymmm> nspiel: http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/index.html
[22:35:40] <Aero-Tec> I set up a dial indicator at the end of the positive travel of x axis
[22:36:21] <nspiel> thank you, jymmm that clarifies it
[22:37:10] <Aero-Tec> I would like to use that for home and to also zero the x axis, of course the zero for X can not be at the positive end of the X axis so some home I need to have some sort of offset
[22:37:20] <Aero-Tec> but how do I do that?
[22:38:13] <Aero-Tec> some how not some home
[22:39:24] <Jymmm> Aero-Tec: I think you're confusing ABSOLUTE and RELATIVE positioning.
[22:39:28] <Tom_itx> nspiel, you don't need to know _everything_ to code a hal file. i'm witness to that
[22:40:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: but you're a code monkey, so you dont count.
[22:40:26] <Aero-Tec> can I set tool 1 zero for work offset 1 at the same time as setting up home?
[22:40:46] <nspiel> lol code monkey
[22:41:00] <Tom_itx> i'd say we all are to a point. why would he posess a robotic arm and want to convert it if he weren't
[22:41:16] <Aero-Tec> right so home is absolute zero for machine
[22:41:30] <Tom_itx> home is machine zero
[22:41:44] <Tom_itx> from there you have G54 etc work offsets
[22:42:01] <Aero-Tec> but can one also do tool 1 offset for work offset 1 at the same time?
[22:42:03] <Tom_itx> the tool table works off home offsets
[22:42:15] <Tom_itx> i found that out the hard way
[22:42:42] <Tom_itx> at least for Z
[22:42:58] <Aero-Tec> what with fixture offset?
[22:43:14] <Aero-Tec> some how that set tooltable offset?
[22:43:22] <Tom_itx> rephrase that
[22:43:23] <Aero-Tec> so I read
[22:43:49] <Aero-Tec> I have fought with offsets as well
[22:44:09] <Aero-Tec> crash city when setting up new tooling
[22:44:36] <Tom_itx> use touch off to workpiece from the machine menu
[22:44:45] <Tom_itx> at least i do
[22:44:57] <Tom_itx> i also use work offsets all the time
[22:44:58] <Aero-Tec> it was from trying to do fixture offsets
[22:45:23] <Tom_itx> all my gcode has a G54 by default
[22:45:46] <Aero-Tec> as soon as I stopped using fixture offsets and stuck with work offsets I was fine
[22:46:00] <Aero-Tec> mine to
[22:46:21] <Aero-Tec> no point with other offset on a lathe
[22:46:24] <pcw_home> skunkworks: I'm not convinced that that guy actually has the drives configured correctly (even a 1.5v battery would do to check)
[22:46:28] <Tom_itx> probably not
[22:46:31] <Aero-Tec> at least non I can think of
[22:46:51] <Tom_itx> if you have to change tools manually and touch off it might be different
[22:48:44] <Aero-Tec> the only way I can see to set home and zero x at the same time is to know the offset distance from zero/home for tool 1 and enter it in manually each time I set the machine up
[22:49:04] <AR_> if you arent doing production, you shouldnt be complaining about having to touch off
[22:49:09] <AR_> it's not that big of a deal lol
[22:49:15] <Tom_itx> no not really
[22:49:19] <Tom_itx> it is handy though
[22:49:25] <nspiel> is there always a base thread and a servo thread
[22:49:29] <Tom_itx> i preset alot of my tools
[22:49:29] <skunkworks> pcw_home: did you talk to him?
[22:49:42] <Aero-Tec> I am doing production
[22:49:48] <Tom_itx> nspiel, yes but mesa cards don't use the base thread
[22:50:23] <Aero-Tec> last I looked mach could not use mesa stuff
[22:50:49] <nspiel> weird. So everything is just run on the servo thread? including all the commands that need to be updated at a high rate
[22:51:27] <Aero-Tec> so any help in zeroing tool one at the same time as setting home?
[22:51:30] <Tom_itx> it handles the timing onboard
[22:51:44] <Tom_itx> pcw_home can enlighten you on that
[22:52:15] <nspiel> nice. Also are you an electrical engineer? Your CNC PSU is awesome
[22:52:49] <Tom_itx> me? no
[22:53:12] <Tom_itx> nearly all surplus stuff
[22:53:13] <Aero-Tec> am I off base with what I am trying to do?
[22:53:40] <Tom_itx> Aero-Tec have you looked at jt's page on that?
[22:53:44] <nspiel> i really want to learn how to make awesome electronic stuff
[22:53:47] <Aero-Tec> yes
[22:54:14] <Aero-Tec> but it was not so clear to me
[22:54:22] <Tom_itx> he could probably explain it better. i still get confused
[22:55:11] <nspiel> I am sort of confused on the loadusr
[22:55:25] <Aero-Tec> I will have to play with it some
[22:56:10] <pcw_home> skunkworks he was on the forum
[22:57:04] <Tom_itx> nspiel i don't understand it all either but i did get it working
[22:57:23] <Tom_itx> loadusr likely loads a function into user space
[22:57:52] <nspiel> but its for hal communication with the ui?
[22:58:03] <Tom_itx> i believe so
[22:58:09] <nspiel> oh ok cool
[22:58:26] <Tom_itx> for communication between layers at least.
[22:58:42] <Tom_itx> which layers... not sure
[22:59:37] <nspiel> how did u know how to make your psu
[23:00:56] <Tom_itx> read about what i wanted to do and what it would require
[23:01:11] <Tom_itx> and started hunting for stuff to do that with
[23:01:42] <Tom_itx> local surplus had those 3 identical transformers
[23:01:45] <Tom_itx> so i went with that
[23:01:57] <Tom_itx> was gonna get a toriod but found those first
[23:02:17] <Tom_itx> sorta wish it was a bit higher voltage but not complaining
[23:03:27] <pcw_home> add a boost xfrmr
[23:03:33] <Tom_itx> meh
[23:03:54] <Tom_itx> this was done on the cheap
[23:03:59] <Aero-Tec> BTW JT page says
[23:04:01] <Aero-Tec> X Offset
[23:04:01] <Aero-Tec> With the tool loaded you can use either the dowel method or the turn and measure method to set the X offset for the tool table. For a drill holder you can indicate the drill in the center of the spindle for X0.
[23:04:04] <Tom_itx> for that, it turned out ok
[23:04:25] <pcw_home> If they are toroids pull a few new turns through
[23:04:36] <Aero-Tec> he still has to cut and measure for setting up the tooling
[23:04:37] <Tom_itx> mine are old transformers
[23:05:02] <nspiel> it seems like signal is kind of an ambiguous term in this documentation
[23:05:05] <Aero-Tec> I was wanting to bypass that if possible
[23:06:50] <Aero-Tec> to bad one can not run code in the tool table
[23:07:22] <Tom_itx> ?
[23:07:22] <Aero-Tec> tool 1 x offset is home - some value
[23:08:44] <Tom_itx> if you set all your tools to the same point they will be
[23:09:02] <Tom_itx> then set your work offset from the current tool i believe
[23:09:30] <Aero-Tec> not following
[23:09:50] <Aero-Tec> set all tools to same point?
[23:10:00] <Tom_itx> the same x z point in space
[23:10:11] <Aero-Tec> I have then all working off of tool 1
[23:10:23] <Aero-Tec> so zeroing tool one zeros them all
[23:10:32] <Tom_itx> how's that working out?
[23:10:42] <Aero-Tec> good so far
[23:10:58] <Aero-Tec> just a pain when the power goes out
[23:11:11] <Tom_itx> i haven't set up a lathe so i'm not sure but i think i'd do it the same as i did my mill
[23:11:20] <Aero-Tec> or some other crash that stops things
[23:11:23] <Tom_itx> it should save the tool table
[23:11:56] <Tom_itx> bedtime here
[23:12:33] <Aero-Tec> I have to unload stock, some times 20 feet of it and load in some scrap and set zero for tool 1
[23:13:32] <Aero-Tec> then reload stock and try to get it as close to the setting as possible and hope I can recut with out messing things up
[23:34:03] <mrsun> hmm when drilling aluminium i have a huge problem with aluminium welding to the edge of the drillbits ... even tho i freakin flood it with oil etc .. what am i doing wrong? :)
[23:43:57] <WalterN> go a little slower? its pretty common for it to stick to the cutting edge anyway... if it starts gluing to the flutes of the drill then its going way too fast
[23:45:03] <Aero-Tec> looks like I may have figured it out, will know when I fire things up tomorrow
[23:45:06] <Aero-Tec> night
[23:47:02] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: how are the printers coming along?
[23:47:54] <WalterN> CaptHindsight: I got distracted with a smaller project and setting up my own email server... heh
[23:49:29] <mrsun> WalterN, hmm ok =)
[23:50:44] <WalterN> mrsun: after doing aluminum stuff, often I'll take the cutting tool and smack it with a rubber hammer to knock off the aluminum that stuck to the cutting edge
[23:51:02] <mrsun> WalterN, hmm
[23:51:08] <mrsun> just lay it on a bench and go to town? :P
[23:51:38] <WalterN> heh... it shouldent need smashing...
[23:58:58] <Valen> mrsun: some grades are prone to galling
[23:59:46] <Valen> Al wants a sharp bit, i believe you can get ones specifically for Al, ground different to steel where you need a more robust edge