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[02:03:56] <DJ9DJ> moin
[09:23:39] <nspiel> hi does anyone know if this parallel expansion pci card will work with linux cnc?
[09:23:57] <nspiel> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007
[09:27:00] <jdh> should be ok, it is a NETMOS 9815
[09:27:06] <jdh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NetMos
[09:27:39] <jdh> seems like it woudln't work with my mesa 7i43 though
[09:27:57] <cradek> yes I think these are the ones that don't work in EPP mode
[09:28:10] <cradek> so the answer depends on what you want to do with it
[09:28:46] <jdh> I also wouldn't buy another 7i43
[09:29:24] <cradek> ooh yeah, if you want to hook a mesa card to a pci slot, get a pci mesa card
[09:29:29] <nspiel> wait im about to buy a 7i43 is that bad
[09:29:54] <cradek> much less trouble
[09:29:57] <nspiel> oh yeah....
[09:29:59] <nspiel> dang
[09:30:09] <cradek> nspiel: if you have an EPP-capable parport, 7i43 is fine, but some (netmos based) parports are broken and can't do EPP
[09:30:21] <nspiel> what is epp
[09:30:39] <nspiel> and im trying to find a pci add in card capable of running a 7i43
[09:30:52] <cradek> nspiel: EPP is a way to use a parport as a data bus
[09:31:40] <cradek> do you already have the 7i43?
[09:31:55] <nspiel> no im about to buy one but I have two 7i25
[09:32:50] <jdh> what's a 7i25?
[09:33:02] <cradek> in this situation I'd surely get a 5i20 instead
[09:33:08] <cradek> so much less trouble
[09:33:30] <nspiel> mesa 7i25
[09:33:35] <jdh> or 5i25
[09:33:43] <cradek> jdh: 150W H-bridge
[09:33:56] <cradek> these won't plug in to a 5i25
[09:34:02] <nspiel> http://www.mesanet.com/motioncardinfo.html
[09:34:12] <jdh> gotcha
[09:34:45] <jdh> somewhere, there is a list of a few PCI p-port cards that work with 7i43
[09:35:08] <nspiel> but the 7i43 is cheaper
[09:35:17] <nspiel> and somebody here said it would work
[09:35:51] <cradek> sure it'll work, if you have an EPP-capable parport
[09:36:45] <nspiel> is there a way to get a pci card that will add a parport like that
[09:37:01] <cradek> yes, some cards like that exist
[09:37:50] <nspiel> any idea where to buy them? or any specifics?
[09:37:56] <jdh> I think there is a wiki entry that lists a few that aer known to work. One was a 'Star'
[09:39:21] <nspiel> how can i find wiki entries?
[09:39:24] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[09:39:29] <cradek> see "PCI EPP Cards"
[09:39:51] <cradek> looks like there are two known chipsets that work for EPP
[09:40:09] <cradek> unfortunately the Netmos is the most popular and it doesn't work
[09:40:22] <nspiel> ah ok thank you
[09:41:44] <pcw_home> Theres someone on the forum that may have the 7I43 working with a NetMOS 9865
[09:41:46] <pcw_home> but its not clear yet whats going on (he's tryind to run two 7I43s, one from mainboard
[09:41:47] <pcw_home> port and one from a PCI parallel port)
[09:41:59] <cradek> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?scriteria=1550418&pagetitle=STARTECH.COM%201-port%20epp/ecp%20parallel%20pci%20card%20value%20pac
[09:42:15] <cradek> here's a startech board that even says epp in the title
[09:43:08] <jdh> the netmos ones say EPP also
[09:43:14] <cradek> oh
[09:44:02] <pcw_home> Yep, they all say that
[09:44:20] <nspiel> yep what about this
[09:44:22] <nspiel> http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Port-Parallel-Adapter-PCI1PECP/dp/B00006B8BS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375108123&sr=8-1&keywords=Sunix+PCI+Parallel+Port+Card
[09:45:02] <cradek> no, that's a bad one
[09:45:17] <jdh> the pic shows a netmos chip
[09:46:27] <nspiel> so this will work?
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?scriteria=1550418&pagetitle=STARTECH.COM%201-port%20epp/ecp%20parallel%20pci%20card%20value%20pac#.UfZ8y41QF8E
[09:46:38] <kwallace> You can use a NetMOS card without EPP to provide slower less configurable I/O and use the Mesa card for the fast I/O. Motherboard parallel ports are usually EPP compatible, but if you blow the port out, you might need to replace the motherboard.
[09:46:59] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/k62hqyx shows a sunix
[09:47:27] <nspiel> the comp im running doesnt have motherboard parallel
[09:47:32] <nspiel> so i need to get a card
[09:47:41] <jdh> costs about half as much as my last Atom board that had a good Pport
[09:47:43] <cradek> yeah I bet jdh's is a good one
[09:48:33] <nspiel> http://www.amazon.com/CARD-PARALLEL-IEEE1284--1994-LINU/dp/B00B887KRO/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1375108429&sr=1-3&keywords=sunix
[09:48:35] <cradek> also this one is probably a Cyber/SIIG:
http://www.amazon.com/Siig-Full-Height-Parallel-Adapter/dp/B003KWZPBO/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1375108303&sr=1-3&keywords=siig+parallel+port
[09:49:21] <cradek> unless you can see it and read the name on the chip, it's a big gamble :-(
[09:49:26] <nspiel> dang
[09:49:30] <nspiel> what name on the chip do we want
[09:50:21] <cradek> SIIG/Cyber or Sunix
[09:50:52] <cradek> jdh's link clearly shows Sunix in the picture
[09:51:31] <jdh> so, there is at least some chance that is what they will ship.
[09:51:47] <cradek> yes, at least some chance...
[09:52:07] <nspiel> hahaha
[09:52:22] <nspiel> http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-JJ-P01411-S1-1-Port-Parallel-Adapter/dp/B0074IK5XS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375108597&sr=8-2&keywords=SIIG+parallel
[09:52:23] <cradek> have a local goodwill with piles of computers?
[09:52:40] <jdh> the one near me won't take computers
[09:52:49] <pcw_home> I will try a NetMOS 9865 when I get a chance (and maybe the guy on the forum can as well)
[09:53:18] <cradek> we have one store where they funnel all the electronics (and musical instruments and typewriters and other awesome stuff)
[09:53:20] <nspiel> possibly haha
[09:53:23] <pcw_home> it seems to be the latest PCI interfaced NetMOS chip
[09:53:38] <cradek> it'd be nice if the new normal/cheap cards start working
[09:53:55] <pcw_home> (and very common on cheap dual port cards)
[09:54:04] <nspiel> does this one work?
[09:54:05] <nspiel> http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-JJ-P01411-S1-1-Port-Parallel-Adapter/dp/B0074IK5XS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375108597&sr=8-2&keywords=SIIG+parallel
[09:54:13] <cradek> meanwhile I'll buy your pci cards instead - I'm too old for this kind of thing
[09:54:52] <cradek> nspiel: has the right name, but can't see the chip, so who knows
[09:55:09] <nspiel> but this one is a safe bet?
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Parallel-Adapter-Re-Mappable-PCI1PM/dp/B005G304SO/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1375108275&sr=8-8&keywords=startech+PCI+Parallel+Port+Card
[09:55:19] <nspiel> also do a lot of old computers have these chips in them?
[09:55:35] <cradek> nspiel: if they ship the one in the photo, it should work
[09:55:55] <cradek> almost all onboard parallel ports work perfectly fine for EPP
[09:56:12] <pcw_home> $43 is a bit ridiculous however
[09:56:17] <nspiel> but i need a fast computer to run this robot arm
[09:56:24] <nspiel> yeah it does seem very expensive
[09:56:30] <cradek> EPP used to be used a LOT for scanners, external cdrom drives, tape drives, etc. it was very widely used and it's not surprising it worked back then
[09:56:38] <pcw_home> No, you need a low latency computer
[09:56:59] <cradek> almost everybody used the onboard port, and almost every motherboard had one
[09:57:22] <nspiel> low latency why?
[09:57:26] <jdh> camping in august sounds miserable
[09:57:28] <pcw_home> most PCs are "fast" relative to LinucCNCs demands
[09:57:28] <jdh> <urk>
[09:57:39] <cradek> well if you're running genhexkins you might need a fast one too...
[09:58:13] <cradek> when I was working with that puma on an atom 525 it was very sluggish
[09:58:16] <nspiel> its for an industrial scara robot arm
[09:58:33] <pcw_home> Iterative solvers?
[09:58:35] <cradek> ok, scara is very simple kinematics
[09:59:10] <cradek> pcw_home: I'm not sure - I don't understand genhexkins, but I play one on TV
[10:00:00] <nspiel> scara is very simple kinematics?
[10:00:14] <cradek> yeah, much simpler than puma
[10:01:28] <pcw_home> nspiel: for linuxcnc you need to choose a motherboard with decent latency
[10:01:46] <nspiel> let me find the board i have
[10:02:06] <pcw_home> If the motors are driven with a 7I25, the robot must be fairly small
[10:02:49] <nspiel> http://www.pcworld.com/product/30274/vostro-200.html
[10:02:55] <nspiel> its not very small
[10:02:57] <nspiel> its big
[10:03:35] <nspiel> http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~robotics/s2_spec.html
[10:04:04] <cradek> sizes are relative :-)
[10:06:07] <nspiel> the drivers came with the old arm in a box i got with it
[10:31:17] <nspiel> does anyone know if those drivers will work
[10:33:51] <pcw_home> the 7I25 drivers?
[10:38:44] <nspiel> yeah
[10:38:57] <nspiel> supposedly this arm was working before i got it with these drivers
[10:43:29] <jdh> what was controlling the 7i25?
[10:49:13] <Connor> newegg has some pport cards for good pricing.
[10:51:16] <jdh> non-netmos cards?
[10:59:12] <jdh> I made some HDPE prototypes of motor mounts for my 9x20 conversion. I ordered a 20mm ballscew, but 16mm would probably fit neater. (higher and closer to the bed)
[11:02:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntlI-pDUxPE Parkour Robot
[11:34:12] <R2E4_> hi all
[11:35:52] <R2E4_> I have linuxcnc setup and ready to go with mesa 5i25 and 7i77 boards, however....
[11:36:13] <R2E4_> I cannot find manuals for my sanyo-denki SuperBL series amps.
[11:36:44] <R2E4_> ANyone work with Hitachi seiki vm40, 45 etc...... converting to linuxcnc?
[11:37:39] <R2E4_> I paid too much for it and am now stuck, the original control not working and I cannot find manual for amps, so I am stuck with a 8,000 lbs boat anchor
[11:39:18] <jdh> I have a 15lb anchor on my boat.
[11:39:27] <jmasseo> Do you have the original documentation from the machine?
[11:40:00] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/cnct/BL_Super_Sanyo_Denki.jpg
[11:40:12] <R2E4_> yes I have original doc from the machine
[11:40:43] <R2E4_> It has a manual for the amps, but it is in Japaneese.
[11:41:06] <cradek> heh, "only" have to figure out what CN1 and CN2 are
[11:41:24] <cradek> then put it online and ask for help!
[11:41:46] <R2E4_> ok, I do have the pinouts for them.
[11:41:50] <cradek> sometimes pictures are enough, and also I understand there are lots of people in the world who speak japanese
[11:42:06] <R2E4_> hehe...
[11:42:16] <cradek> haha only serious
[11:42:19] <jmasseo> pretty heavy duty controllers there
[11:42:23] <R2E4_> I know
[11:43:38] <cradek> AC servos? if so one of those CNs is the feedback that you won't have to touch
[11:43:40] <R2E4_> The machine is nice, it is cleaned up.
[11:43:54] <R2E4_> yes AC servos
[11:44:08] <R2E4_> The other is going to the caput controller
[11:44:26] <cradek> ok, show us whatever data you have
[11:45:12] <R2E4_> IT is at my shop. I am at my day job, so I dont have acess to it. I will later.
[11:45:25] <cradek> VCMD and VTG make me pretty sure it's +-10 analog input with tach feedback
[11:45:37] <cradek> weird to have tachs with ac servos though
[11:47:49] <cradek> Kp is a loop gain, possibly velocity
[11:48:47] <cradek> all the 100vac makes me wonder if it's set up for japanese power - is there a big autotransformer in there?
[11:49:03] <cradek> maybe that's what NFB1 is
[11:50:05] <R2E4_> IT was running here, when they shut it down.
[11:50:17] <cradek> heh, did you see it, or did they tell you?
[11:50:38] <R2E4_> I have it powered up, I replaced the battery and have issues with the paramteres
[11:50:47] <cradek> ah
[11:51:20] <R2E4_> So, If I could get it running with linuxcnc, would be the ideal thing.
[11:51:45] <R2E4_> I paid way too much for it, they said it was running etc..... Now I am stuck
[11:52:21] <R2E4_> I've seen other big machines converted so I think it should work.
[11:53:17] <cradek> well certainly one can run a vmc with linuxcnc
[11:54:06] <skunkworks> I think I have seen it done too...
[11:54:14] <cradek> yeah a couple times.
[11:54:21] <skunkworks> :)
[11:54:29] <R2E4_> I have one of the manuals here that shows CN1 and two connections
[11:54:56] <cradek> cool, let's see it
[11:54:57] <R2E4_> haha, yours is the one I am talking about
[11:55:14] <R2E4_> Hang on , I have to upload to my web server
[11:55:22] <cradek> although my vmc is the coolest and was retrofitted with the most skill and artistry, it's not the biggest
[11:55:49] <skunkworks> I think it was the quickest...
[11:55:49] <R2E4_> YOu have a bridgport right?
[11:56:05] <skunkworks> The 2 quickest conversions..
[11:56:10] <cradek> no, I sold that one, I have a mori seiki MV vmc now
[11:56:27] <R2E4_> damn, mione is a vm40
[11:58:01] <jdh> The BL Super P series manual shows similar connections (and CN1/CN2 connection). Might be some common stuff.
[11:58:34] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/cnct/VM40%20WITH%20SEICOS%20M2-MICON16-2.pdf
[11:59:00] <R2E4_> I printed that manual 400 pages.
[11:59:19] <R2E4_> Plus I have the wiring diagrams also
[11:59:58] <R2E4_> IS the magnetic seperator a type of brake?
[12:01:50] <R2E4_> Seems that CN1 is for the spindle
[12:10:59] <cradek> page 20 looks like most or all of what you want
[12:17:10] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:17:15] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:20:01] <R2E4_> Theres some connections in that drawing that is not on the amp. Thats what is a bit confusing.
[12:23:29] <pcw_home> Not there physically or just unused?
[12:23:30] <pcw_home> Drives usually have I/O features that may or may not be used
[12:23:39] <R2E4_> Not there
[12:24:13] <pcw_home> maybe a simpler model
[12:24:53] <R2E4_> The manual is confusing, cause they show all the iterations of the different machines so have to make sure I am on the correct page for the model.
[12:26:43] <R2E4_> I can fnd the connections for the +10 in from the controller, which the mesa boards would input there. I think I found the encoders where they have to go into the mesa boards
[12:27:11] <R2E4_> The tach goes directly into the amp so no worries there.
[12:28:42] <R2E4_> What worries me is the other connections going into controller frm amp re: Phase A and B, overheat signals, position ready, etc...
[12:35:34] <R2E4_> Anyone in the Montreal region?
[12:40:13] <pcw_home> overheat is good to know, in position is not used in velocity mode phaseA, phaseB be sound like encoder signals
[12:40:15] <pcw_home> (the drive will have encoder in and out)
[12:46:42] <R2E4_> I thought you use the encoder directly from the encoders on the motor
[12:50:43] <pcw_home> For AC servos the most common way is that the motor encoder goes to the drive
[12:50:44] <pcw_home> and the drive either buffers the signals and sends them out other pins for the controller
[12:50:46] <pcw_home> or on newer drives, the drive generates scaled quadrature signals in the drives DSP/FPGA
[12:50:47] <pcw_home> for the controller
[12:51:56] <pcw_home> so there is usually a separate motor encoder connector and a controller connector on the drive
[12:52:42] <pcw_home> The drive uses the encoder signals for commutation
[12:53:46] <pcw_home> a DC servo does not need the encoder signals
[12:53:48] <pcw_home> (unless is simulate a tachometer with them)
[12:54:02] <R2E4_> These have commutation sensor going to the amp and encoder looks like goes directly to the controller.
[12:54:12] <R2E4_> Tach shows going directly to the amp
[12:55:54] <pcw_home> Its possible but a little odd not to have the encoder signal go to the drive
[12:55:55] <pcw_home> (and be relayed out the controller connector)
[12:58:30] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/cnct/xyz%20axis%20amp%20connections.pdf
[12:58:47] <pcw_home> at least for servo drives where you would expect sinusoidal drive
[12:58:48] <pcw_home> so the motor drive needs to know the rotor angle at better that the Halls +-30 degrees
[12:58:49] <R2E4_> That is the xyz axis diagram with the connections
[13:01:25] <R2E4_> The spindle is a servo also and has a seperate amp, with Fanuc chips on it. I havent got that far yet.
[13:03:18] <pcw_home> Maybe the commutation sensor is not just a Hall sensor but something with higher resolution
[13:03:52] <andypugh> It only appears to have three differential channels
[13:04:30] <pcw_home> Yeah and TG whatever that is
[13:05:00] <pcw_home> Anyway, looks like a standard analog velocity mode drive
[13:05:26] <R2E4_> IT also doesnt show the drive enable
[13:06:33] <pcw_home> probably PRDY
[13:06:58] <pcw_home> or CRX
[13:07:16] <R2E4_> thats marked velocity control?
[13:07:27] <pcw_home> Yes
[13:08:20] <R2E4_> Does the mesa boards need the "One rotation Signal"?
[13:08:23] <pcw_home> can you cross check with the drive manual for more info on those connector pins/ signal names?
[13:08:30] <pcw_home> Thats just index
[13:08:59] <pcw_home> you probably want it for homing
[13:09:11] <pcw_home> (and spindle sync)
[13:10:42] <R2E4_> yeah, the drive manual is the one in Japaneese....
[13:12:52] <jmasseo> are optical encoders ever used?
[13:13:13] <cradek> I agree this looks like feedback to amp (CS, BLTG) are separate from feedback to control (OC)
[13:13:23] <cradek> looking at page 20 of the original link
[13:14:32] <pcw_home> looks about as simple as it could be
[13:14:53] <cradek> yeah
[13:15:14] <cradek> unless he has the ABSOLUTE PULSE CODER version
[13:15:38] <cradek> the HEIDENHAIN and MAGNESCALE versions just convert to quadrature for you
[13:16:13] <R2E4_> Where is the CS,BLTG yop speak of
[13:16:14] <R2E4_> ?
[13:16:23] <cradek> page 20
[13:16:33] <cradek> right side
[13:16:34] <R2E4_> Im on page 20
[13:17:09] <pcw_home> Ah yes, I was looking at the first page of the three page drawing with the optical encoder
[13:17:27] <cradek> yeah looks like there are several possibilities
[13:17:41] <cradek> all except the ABSOLUTE one are no problem
[13:18:42] <pcw_home> ok all the drawings have the "opt coder"
[13:19:16] <pcw_home> so if thats what you have you should be set
[13:19:47] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: how do you use the 8i20 with AC servos with hall sensors?
[13:19:57] <pcw_home> BLDC comp
[13:19:59] <cradek> oh even the ABSOLUTE version has A,B,Z to the NC UNIT
[13:20:23] <cradek> so it might also be just fine, and is more like what you were saying (amp generates quadrature)
[13:20:57] <pcw_home> must be before they got clever
[13:21:32] <pcw_home> and made non-interchangeable parts
[13:21:33] <R2E4_> I dont have that one, I am pretty sure I have the ones on page 20,21 and 22
[13:21:48] <cradek> yay
[13:21:57] <andypugh> pcw_home: How does the 8i20 feel about trapezoidal commutation?
[13:22:51] <pcw_home> It does not like it in general unless you de-tune the current loop some
[13:22:52] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: I wanted to try it out on some linear motors
[13:22:56] <andypugh> (Oh, and does is seem likely that one of my 8i20s has lost a gate when it locks the rotor at +0.5A but not at -0.5A?
[13:23:34] <pcw_home> I dont think so
[13:24:09] <andypugh> Seems hard to explain otherwise.
[13:24:46] <andypugh> (also, at a commanded angle of 0.25 it then locks the rotor at -0.5A and not at +0.5A)
[13:24:54] <pcw_home> if it can rotate one turn smoothly in one direction thane it should be fine
[13:25:01] <pcw_home> then
[13:25:07] <cradek> wonder what the heck MELODY HORN and CUBIC TOWER are
[13:25:13] <CaptHindsight> just looking into BLDC, does it just use the encoder for sensing direction vs the hall sensors?
[13:25:31] <pcw_home> it can, its an option
[13:25:36] <andypugh> cradek: They sound like code-names from a Charlie Stross book :-)
[13:26:08] <andypugh> pcw_home: That was the problem, it wasn't rotating in either direction unless given a flick..
[13:26:23] <andypugh> Swapping to another 8i20 made it all work fine.
[13:26:39] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: if one wishes to use the hall sensors with 7i77 + 8i20 is there a working config?
[13:26:52] <pcw_home> Yeah maybe a phase is out
[13:28:02] <pcw_home> 7I77 is probably not the most appropriate interface for a 8I20 (7I85 would make more sense)
[13:28:26] <pcw_home> you can drive one with a 7I77
[13:28:45] <pcw_home> (using the 7I77s spare sserial port)
[13:29:13] <pcw_home> andypugh: did the 8I20 just quit working?
[13:29:14] <cradek> R2E4_: cool, the magazine can turn both ways
[13:29:28] <CaptHindsight> nevermind it's serial vs analog in for the 8i20
[13:29:56] <R2E4_> haha.... yeah, thats another one that will be tough. At least It is controlled via relays
[13:30:04] <andypugh> pcw_home: I am not sure it ever worked. This was while I was trying to get my X-axis working for the first time.
[13:30:13] <R2E4_> its got a 20 position tool changer
[13:30:17] <cradek> R2E4_: use classicladder, just take it one step at a time
[13:30:25] <pcw_home> Might check motor wires
[13:30:50] <andypugh> Motor wires are new, and continuity checked out too.
[13:32:15] <pcw_home> Well if swapping the 8I20 fixes it it may be bad
[13:32:18] <pcw_home> but make sure the maxcurrent EEPROM settings are the same
[13:33:48] <andypugh> With a fixed current value and a fixed angle the motor shaft was locked. Moving the angle by 90 degrees or reversing the current magnitude gave a free-to-turn shaft. So it does seem most like a dead bridge element.
[13:34:11] <andypugh> This is a RevB board, by the way.
[13:34:37] <R2E4_> +cradek: I think I am going to have to trace all wiring from relays board. There are lots....
[13:36:13] <cradek> maybe, but I bet you'll find most of it makes sense according to this pdf
[13:37:14] <cradek> it's very hard to trace all wires - the trick is figuring out what you don't have to figure out, and then just leave it alone
[13:37:51] <cradek> remember almost all of it is already wired correctly
[13:38:01] <R2E4_> IT is tough cause there are virtual relays or soft relays within logic and they show it in the manuals but it doesnt tell you which is which.
[13:38:26] <R2E4_> I mean literally hndreds of relay contacts but most are soft......
[13:38:37] <pcw_home> I think a dead bridge element will give you current in both directions
[13:38:38] <pcw_home> (judging from times we had left a motor lead unconnected)
[13:39:41] <cradek> R2E4_: whatever you do, start with the MELODY HORN
[13:40:21] <R2E4_> haha, There is a cool light, which is the only thing working other than the melody horn alarm when powered up.
[13:44:15] <andypugh> pcw_home: I will bench-test it to see what is going on. Crouching in front of the milling machine was not the place to debug it
[13:44:59] <andypugh> Does the Melody Horn play "Lilly Marlene" or "La Cucaracha"?
[13:45:14] <cradek> Daisy
[13:45:40] <pcw_home> If its bad we'll swap it for a new one but we want the bad one back for analysis
[13:45:56] <R2E4_> ITs a speaker so I can make it play littlefeet if I want.... lol
[13:46:46] <jmasseo> i would want my alarm horn to play something startling
[13:46:47] <jmasseo> like slayer
[13:47:36] <R2E4_> Well, depending, there is a different melody when the job finishes than when there is an alarm.
[13:48:01] <R2E4_> So any event I can make it play whatever I want.
[13:49:08] <R2E4_> ITs being driven by the controller, and the new controller will be LinuxCNC...... so....lol
[13:49:12] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how fast 4+ chan audio card could be made to drive analog servos?
[13:51:12] <pcw_home> quite fast except they are AC coupled
[13:52:39] <CaptHindsight> just to control galvos
[13:52:48] <skunkworks> the input is... I wonder....
[13:52:51] <skunkworks> l;)
[13:52:52] <CaptHindsight> they never stop moving, or don't have to
[13:57:52] <pcw_home> should work fine for scanning but not indexing
[13:59:54] <pcw_home> (since you would need to maintain the integral of position over time = 0)
[14:09:24] <andypugh> I think i read somewhere that audo cards typically are _not_ AC coupled, even though you would expect them to be.
[14:11:48] <skunkworks> when they are push/pull - the outputs are not.. But the inputs usually are.. (atleast the ones I have seen)
[14:12:05] <R2E4_> This is what I just found in the LinuxCNC forum. Is there truth to it and what is considered high powered motors?
[14:12:07] <R2E4_> There is ongoing work on improving this (e.g. araisrobo on github + others?), but I haven't heard reports on how that is progressing.
[14:12:26] <R2E4_> Before you spend big money on making a LinuxCNC controller for a modern 5-axis VMC, please make sure you understand the current limitations in LinuxCNC wrt. to lookeahead/blending. If you have machines with high-power motors resulting in high accelerations (approaching 1g or so) and high feedrates (10m/min is a lot in hobby use!) then you may have problems.
[14:12:58] <cradek> eh
[14:13:08] <Jymmm> Anyone have an idea on the realistic cost/watt of solar panels?
[14:13:38] <jmasseo> Jymmm: It seems like 'wholesale' is like $0.65/watt, but realistically it's like $1-2/watt
[14:15:06] <Jymmm> jmasseo: Ah, thanks. I'm kinda looking at a 250W panel to play with. HD has one for $1.50/W
[14:15:19] <pcw_home> I have not seen a sound card/MB sound that can output a DC voltage but I have not checked recently
[14:16:49] <Jymmm> jmasseo: It's not too bad either.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-Solar-250-Watt-Monocrystalline-Solar-Panel-GS-S-250-Fab5/203079647#.Ufa6meucrjE
[14:17:14] <Jymmm> jmasseo: Beats HF's 45W for $3.33/W =)
[14:17:27] <jmasseo> right
[14:17:35] <jmasseo> there are some specialty vendors on the internet that might be slightly cheaper
[14:19:08] <Jymmm> jmasseo: Yeah, I just started looking. I run a fan in te garage constantly, solar just seemed reasonable.
[14:20:35] <Aero-Tec2> how many axis can linuxcnc move at the same time?
[14:20:41] <cradek> 9
[14:20:44] <Jymmm> 7 or 8
[14:20:50] <Jymmm> or 9 =) (ty cradek)
[14:21:03] <Aero-Tec2> so one could move all 9 at the same time?
[14:21:07] <cradek> there are 9 coordinated axes
[14:21:09] <Aero-Tec2> cool
[14:21:09] <cradek> sure
[14:21:25] <Aero-Tec2> thanks
[14:22:53] <Aero-Tec2> is it easy to add custom USB controllers to linuxcnc?
[14:23:53] <cradek> there's insufficient detail in your question to answer
[14:23:54] <Aero-Tec2> for say heaters or some other custom app
[14:23:54] <Aero-Tec2> and have feed back to the linuxcnc control screen
[14:24:13] <Aero-Tec2> I know others have done it but was wondering if it was a hard thing to do
[14:24:28] <Jymmm> Aero-Tec2: You have to be more specific
[14:24:42] <cradek> it's hard for anyone to say what would be easy or hard for you personally
[14:25:24] <cradek> there are probably several projects done by others you could start from
[14:25:34] <cradek> I guess you'll have to read about those and decide whether it looks easy or hard
[14:26:01] <Aero-Tec2> say I wanted to run up to 5 motors at the same time, but all at different speeds based on some number sent to the usb controller
[14:26:06] <cradek> some probably involve programming a microcontroller - that can be anywhere from "old hat" to "impossible" depending on the person
[14:26:30] <cradek> well that's something you could just do in hal
[14:26:48] <Aero-Tec2> I want to USB to take the number and drive from 1 to 5 motors based on the value of the number
[14:26:59] <cradek> why do you want that?
[14:27:34] <Aero-Tec2> can hal control things with out it being called a axis?
[14:27:38] <cradek> adding usb to that adds unnecessary complexity
[14:27:38] <Jymmm> Aero-Tec2: BE SPECIFIC, USB What EXACTLY? A microcontroller? arduino? ???
[14:27:39] <cradek> yes!
[14:27:57] <Aero-Tec2> cool
[14:28:06] <cradek> Jymmm: better to just say what problem you're trying to solve, instead of blindly choosing hardware to use to solve it
[14:29:16] <Jymmm> cradek: Maybe, but "USB blah" is just too ambiguous. If he's talking one of those Mach Controllers, then it probably won't work.
[14:29:34] <Jymmm> Mach USB Controllers*
[14:29:52] <cradek> yes, that's why I keep asking questions and refuse to guess what someone is asking (even though it can make me appear difficult)
[14:29:52] <Aero-Tec2> so I can have 15 motors, 9 od witch are axis and the rest can have there speed controlled independently based on changing values of a running gcode program?
[14:30:00] <cradek> Aero-Tec2: yes certainly
[14:30:04] <Aero-Tec2> oh no, not a mach controller
[14:30:26] <Aero-Tec2> custom open source controller
[14:30:48] <pcw_home> for low performance rate control of step motors an Arduino would certainly do
[14:30:56] <andypugh> Aero-Tec2: As an example, it can be as simple as adding a velocity mode stepgen to HAL and setting the velocity pin to the speed you want.
[14:32:04] <pcw_home> or run them all from modbus if these are VFDs
[14:32:22] <Aero-Tec2> how do I find out more about this velocity things and do I need extra hardware to do this?
[14:32:38] <pcw_home> no, just the I/O bits
[14:32:43] <Aero-Tec2> not vfd
[14:33:30] <Aero-Tec2> so how do you set speed and dir or motor with I/O bits and no extra hardware?
[14:33:46] <Aero-Tec2> you would need a driver of some sort would you not?
[14:34:51] <Aero-Tec2> say I wanted to make a new music machine
[14:35:06] <Aero-Tec2> and wanted to used the sound of steppers to make the music
[14:35:35] <pcw_home> hardware driver yes (step motor driver) addition software, no LinuxCNC, can drive stepmotor drives directly
[14:35:39] <cradek> sure you need stepper drivers
[14:35:58] <Aero-Tec2> some would be doing cords, long steady but ever changing speeds along the song, and the more active one playing the song
[14:36:36] <pcw_home> May be a bit raspy sounding with the software stepgen
[14:36:44] <Aero-Tec2> so that would be doable with EMC and hal
[14:36:50] <Aero-Tec2> that is so cool
[14:37:13] <pcw_home> yes see daisy.ngc
[14:37:27] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0re79zEX5A
[14:37:37] <cradek> unfortunately this machine didn't have the 4th axis
[14:38:23] <Aero-Tec2> hal can output steady streams and change rate as needed to say 6 steppers and emc can at the same time move 9 others in full motion control
[14:38:30] <Aero-Tec2> wow that is so so so cool
[14:38:49] <andypugh> Is it really too much to expect to ba ble to uninstall the Soduku game in Precise?
[14:38:51] <cradek> the chords are more full if you have a 4th axis - I did when I "composed" it
[14:40:24] <pcw_home> well you could just connect the stepgen in quadrature mode and drive a speaker for the missing axis
[14:42:55] <pcw_home> I think the reason most sound cards have AC coupled outputs is that they run on single +5 so would have a 2.5V offset
[14:42:57] <pcw_home> (big pop when you plug into the line in) you may be able to jumper out the capacitors though
[14:57:01] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, just ran across this today. may be of some interest:
http://www.thescrewspecialists.com/
[14:57:48] <Tom_itx> looks like mostly for woodworkers
[15:00:40] <uw> wood srews??
[15:00:44] <uw> pff
[15:02:54] <nspiel> is pc_home still here
[15:02:57] <nspiel> or dh
[15:05:57] <Tom_itx> just ask and wait
[15:07:43] <nspiel> hi tom do you remember i was asking about the 7i25 drivers powering a scara robot arm
[15:08:24] <Tom_itx> yup
[15:08:36] <Tom_itx> but i don't know much about the 7i25
[15:09:16] <nspiel> ah gotcha
[15:10:32] <pcw_home> I'm sure they will drive it, but would need the motor specifications to know how well
[15:10:33] <pcw_home> That is, will they drive the motors to their maximum speed/torque ratings?
[15:14:02] <nspiel> i have datasheet
[15:14:26] <nspiel> i dont think they will come close to maximum soeed and torque ratings
[15:15:31] <nspiel> http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo.nsf/link2/TKUR-6BLSNU/$file/TSE-C253-10C.pdf
[15:21:03] <nspiel> any ideas? planning or running both 7i25 from a 7i43
[15:23:04] <pcw_home> do you know which motor(s) you have
[15:24:00] <nspiel> i have a couple of them
[15:24:00] <nspiel> 4
[15:25:05] <nspiel> the ones rated for 8.9A 6.4 amps and two rated for 3.9A
[15:30:53] <nspiel> 40sa 02sa 04ma
[15:43:53] <jdh> what's the max encoder rate that will work with a p-port?
[15:44:16] <nspiel> the encoders on there are so nice, they are so sensitive and fast
[15:44:34] <cradek> one count per base period (or two)
[15:44:53] <cradek> i.e. not really very fast
[15:45:13] <cradek> so much better to get a 7i43
[15:45:46] <nspiel> as opposed to?
[15:46:20] <cradek> I was answering jdh
[15:46:46] <cradek> hooking encoders directly to a parallel port can work, but the count rate is low
[15:47:02] <jdh> I was hoping to share a PC with a mill and a lathe. The mill is using a 7i43.
[15:48:41] <cradek> you can read a spindle encoder if you select its resolution carefully according to your base period and the rpm at which you want to thread
[15:49:11] <cradek> I wouldn't try to read axis encoders, although it's possible if you choose carefully
[15:49:30] <jdh> I just wanted spindle encoder
[15:50:42] <pcw_home> Normally a low res spindle encoder is fine so software encoder counting works well
[15:51:03] <cradek> yep
[15:53:29] <nspiel> how did u guys buy ur 7i43
[15:56:40] <cradek> ?
[15:57:57] <andypugh> email
[15:59:24] <Tom_itx> pesos
[16:04:56] <pcw_home> Looks like the big motor is 120V 30 A peak so a 7I25 would just creep around
[16:06:48] <nspiel> what do u mean would just creep around
[16:10:21] <pcw_home> 1/3 of the required voltage so max 1/3 of full speed
[16:10:23] <pcw_home> 1/5 of peak current so roughly 1/5 of full acceleration
[16:16:32] <nspiel> ahhh i see
[16:16:33] <nspiel> is there a better motor controller to buy that will work
[16:16:33] <nspiel> and board
[16:16:34] <nspiel> or setup
[16:16:34] <nspiel> to run with linux cnc
[16:17:52] <nspiel> parallel seems so outdated
[16:47:53] <JT-Shop> yea the circulation pump showed up for the acid tank
[17:04:56] <DJ9DJ_> gn8
[17:26:10] <spack> you guys have any experience with openscad?
[17:44:10] <krolick> yes...
[17:44:26] <andypugh> nspiel: I only suggeste the 7i43 because you seemed put of by the price of a PCI card (5i20 for example)
[17:45:01] <krolick> spack: what do you want to know?
[17:46:13] <andypugh> nspiel: The 7i29 is closer to that spec (165V and 22.5A)
[17:46:45] <nspiel> oh i see
[17:47:02] <nspiel> so how does the 7i29 interface?
[17:47:16] <nspiel> or are those drivers?
[17:47:33] <andypugh> Yes, 7i29 is a different (higher power) driver.
[17:48:54] <nspiel> ah i see
[17:49:13] <nspiel> so i could get started with the 7i43 and the 7i25 i have then upgrade to the 7i29
[17:49:32] <andypugh> If that suits the way you want to do it, yes.
[17:49:56] <andypugh> And if you don't want to use the parallel port, then you can buy a 5i20 instead of the 7i43.
[17:50:19] <nspiel> so how does the 5i20 get around using a parallel port
[17:50:36] <andypugh> (though the 5i23 is not much more expensive, and is more capable, but then wy buy capability you won't use)
[17:50:49] <andypugh> The 5i20 / 5i23 are PCI cards.
[17:51:17] <nspiel> ah i see and what are their outputs?
[17:51:36] <andypugh> They are otherwise equivalent to the 7i43.
[17:51:51] <andypugh> (potentially faster)
[17:52:52] <nspiel> it seems cheaper to go with a 7i43 and a pci card that has a serial port build in
[17:52:54] <nspiel> built in
[17:53:04] <nspiel> last night i also found a pretty good desktop to run I think?
[17:53:09] <nspiel> i got it for free
[17:53:19] <andypugh> Serial port?
[17:53:57] <spack> krolick: i was just trying to get rid of a component in a multicomponent rendering
[17:54:02] <spack> i found the right spot to comment it out
[17:54:18] <spack> i've never really used it before so i wasn't so what i was looking for
[17:54:18] <nspiel> nope it doesnt have one but it has spare pci slots
[17:54:50] <nspiel> http://www.pcworld.com/product/30274/vostro-200.html
[17:56:21] <krolick> spack: gotcha
[17:57:02] <krolick> spack: it's a cool concept but I find it insanely time-consuming
[18:00:29] <nspiel> @andypugh did u see that computer
[18:01:49] <andypugh> nspiel: I am puzzled about what you intend to do with the serial port.
[18:02:20] <nspiel> i was talking to some people earlier and they said i could buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Parallel-Adapter-Re-Mappable-PCI1PM/dp/B005G304SO/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1375108275&sr=8-8&keywords=startech+PCI+Parallel+Port+Card
[18:02:31] <nspiel> and it would work which said it is supported on the wiki
[18:05:23] <nspiel> i gtg very soon but will that work?
[18:07:53] <andypugh> That's a really expensive parallel port card. You ought to be able to find one for a quarter of that price.
[18:08:13] <Tom_itx> i'd say so
[18:08:17] <nspiel> interesting
[18:08:34] <nspiel> i guess ill look more tonight
[18:09:50] <andypugh> The 5i25 is only twice that price. I don't know if you can run any of the Mesa brushed-servo drives directly from a 5i25.
[18:21:55] <eric_unterhausen> all of the Mesa brushed drives are 50 pin daughterboards?
[18:23:19] <PCW> Yes but we are adding some sserial ones
[18:24:32] <PCW> first is 8I22 30A cont 60A peak 165VDC nominal
[18:25:15] <PCW> Heck the 50 pin ones started out being driven by LM629s
[18:36:29] <andypugh> Today I found that my X axis works nicely for slow feed as required when hobbing a gear.
[18:37:16] <JT-Shop> what are you making?
[18:37:21] <andypugh> I also found that if you swing the table the wrong way to compensate for the helix angle then the result is a really bad gear. This is embarassing when it is a blank from someone else.
[18:39:06] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DklhLIZZTmOMGiUhCGEjR9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:39:26] <andypugh> It's the ram traverse shaft from a Hayes Diemaster.
[18:39:50] <andypugh> It would probably work, actually. :-)
[18:43:15] <JT-Shop> your having too much fun
[18:44:14] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Did you see my video of the machine finally working on all axes?
[18:45:56] <JT-Shop> no
[18:46:20] <JT-Shop> I'm getting close to having the anodizing line setup here
[18:46:48] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/X0celdfZmkA
[18:48:13] <JT-Shop> was this machine originally a CNC machine?
[18:49:06] <andypugh> No, it's one of these:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/harrisonmiller/index.html
[18:50:51] <JT-Shop> the Y axis motor mount looks familiar to me
[18:50:52] <andypugh> I hope it looks like it might have come out of the Harrison factory like that though. The main parts I have added are all iron castings, for example.
[18:51:07] <andypugh> Indeed it should.
[18:51:49] <JT-Shop> nice to see it in motion
[19:03:27] * Tom_itx thinks the both of you have too much fun
[19:04:33] <Tom_itx> andypugh, you've got a rotary to fit on that too right?
[19:04:51] <Jymmm> Any thoughts on what I could do to my IBM Model M keyboard? Other than sell it.
[19:04:59] <Tom_itx> use it
[19:05:06] <andypugh> Yes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmZrDrt6pQ&feature=share&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[19:05:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I use a Apple Wired kybd now.
[19:05:36] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: There's no Windows/Apple key.
[19:05:40] <eric_unterhausen> do I have to build a real-time kernel to test the unified built branch?
[19:06:09] <eric_unterhausen> Jymmm: I use a model M when I can, using one now
[19:06:15] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: No, you can get one as a package:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernelPackages
[19:06:24] <eric_unterhausen> andy, thanks
[19:06:28] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: I have two. One has an eraser mouse in it =)
[19:06:44] <Tom_itx> andypugh is that a 2 axis rotary?
[19:06:46] <eric_unterhausen> so it's not a real model M then?
[19:06:50] <Tom_itx> looks like you can tilt it as well
[19:06:57] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: Oh, it's REAL =)
[19:07:04] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: Jsut Rare
[19:07:23] <Tom_itx> maybe it's just the rounded housing making it appear that way
[19:07:45] <eric_unterhausen> I thought the model M was from the first PS2
[19:09:14] <JT-Shop> good night guys... JT puts on the chef de today hat
[19:17:21] <eric_unterhausen> of course I have a 8168 ethernet controller :(
[19:20:02] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I can tilt it, but not under power.
[19:20:22] <andypugh> I can also tilt the head on the mill. (when in vertical mode)
[19:20:54] <andypugh> I may well install a kins that lets me jog along W in the tilted-head situation.
[19:26:33] <CaptHindsight> heh, forgot to wear goggles and raincoat when using the face mill
[19:33:53] <spack> what were you facing?
[19:35:41] <CaptHindsight> a steel trunnion that held the coolant in a trough-like pocket
[20:00:38] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: Maybe get a USB-ethernet dongle, or use WiFi while experimenting?
[21:09:53] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: What PN kybd you have?
[21:11:13] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: The LEDs on mine went out a ways back. I thought I just burned them out but I tested them individually today and they light up. So I'd like to trace back if posisble.
[21:12:35] <nspiel> will this work
[21:12:36] <nspiel> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158293
[21:13:32] <andypugh> It sounds like it should, it works with Linux and EPP (or so they claim).
[21:13:33] <jdh> it's not a netmos
[21:13:45] <Jymmm> says it works with DOS too
[21:14:41] <andypugh> Though I was thinking more along the lines of this sort of thing:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PARALLEL-PCI-FAST-DUAL-PORT-/121137760476
[21:15:17] <jdh> can't see the chipset on it.
[21:15:29] <Jymmm> yeah, what jdh said
[21:16:28] <Jymmm> http://sewelldirect.com/LAVA-SP-PCI-serial-parallel-port_specs.asp
[21:16:45] <nspiel> cool they show that one on the linux cnc wiki
[21:16:59] <andypugh> I might be tempted to try
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290617805001
[21:17:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: If it supports DOS (like it says), why does it need a driver cd?
[21:18:19] <andypugh> No Idea. I play with Macs :-)
[21:18:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: Apple Freak!
[21:19:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: Bet you wait in line for days for the shinest new apple product to, don't ya =)
[21:19:08] <Jymmm> too*
[21:19:51] <nspiel> hahah
[21:20:17] <Jymmm> FOUND IT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815317006
[21:20:29] <andypugh> On the contrary, I buy the previous gen stuff from the people who need the newest shiny.
[21:20:57] <jdh> it has a spartan on it.
[21:21:14] <nspiel> linux cnc is being so hard to install
[21:21:19] <Jymmm> http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/15-317-006-05.jpg
[21:21:19] <andypugh> Jymmm: Why would you want a dual-serial single-parallel card?
[21:21:30] <jdh> linuxcnc is trivial to install
[21:21:32] <Jymmm> andypugh: I don't, but that's what he linked to
[21:22:11] <andypugh> I need to sleep. But -> LiveCD FTW
[21:23:02] <CaptHindsight> that EPP card just might work
[21:23:14] <jdh> lots of them might work
[21:23:40] <CaptHindsight> looks like all the PP signals are from the FPGA
[21:25:01] <CaptHindsight> too bad it's $46
[21:25:21] <nspiel> i like the one for $26 that is from newegg
[21:25:39] <CaptHindsight> link?
[21:26:16] <nspiel> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158293
[21:32:34] <jdh> I would get that one.
[21:38:55] <Jymmm> Anyone know how to repair flex pcb's ?
[22:30:08] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: whats broken on it?
[22:31:02] <CaptHindsight> it's just copper foil on polyester film
[22:37:06] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: the contacts where it meets the connector are dirty/worn down.
[22:37:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: kinda black (oxidized?)
[22:37:56] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: tried an eraser already
[22:39:08] <CaptHindsight> copper contacts? or tin + solder? or??
[22:39:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: IBM Model M keyboard. Tin?
[22:42:50] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Dont seat it, I already closed it up. Only the LEDs dont work.
[22:42:55] <Jymmm> sweat*
[22:43:07] <CaptHindsight> emery cloth, Tarn-away, etc
[22:43:25] <Jymmm> I might try tarn away, thanks.
[22:44:49] <CaptHindsight> tarn-X, heh, getting old
[22:45:00] <Jymmm> =)
[22:46:44] <CaptHindsight> my buddy Norman invented that formula
[22:49:16] <CaptHindsight> it actually dissolves the metal :)
[23:01:07] <eric_unterhausen> Jymmm: kbd is a 71g4644
[23:03:52] <eric_unterhausen> interesting, it's a "collapsing rubber dome" model instead of having springs
[23:07:07] <Jymmm> hmmm, looking
[23:07:38] <Jymmm> 52G9658
[23:07:49] <Jymmm> 08-16-1993
[23:08:06] <Jymmm> MADE IN USA
[23:08:28] <eric_unterhausen> I saw a pic of your keyboard, so you aren't imagining it :)
[23:08:45] <Jymmm> lol
[23:09:26] <eric_unterhausen> I really should clean up one of my spares, I have various vintage model M keyboards
[23:09:58] <Jymmm> I have the key removal tool
[23:10:12] <Jymmm> I too k it comlpetely apart and cleaned everything
[23:49:22] <NickParker> mill actually moves now.
[23:49:29] <NickParker> i can punch codes into the bandit and everything
[23:49:37] <NickParker> just gotta get the 3 phase converter running and i can blow chips
