#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-07-09

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[00:00:38] <ssi> no, same thing
[00:00:39] <ssi> wtf
[00:00:39] <Connor> if the bottom of the retainer is in full contact with the shims.. then you shouldn't have any unless the top bearing isn't fully seated..
[00:01:02] <Connor> we used a press.. :)
[00:01:09] <ssi> I did too
[00:02:15] <Connor> you'll figure it out.. it's a little different than the way we did it.. so, you might need to play with it a bit more.
[00:05:11] <PetefromTn> Or he could pack the millhead up and grab all the pieces parts and fly up in his business jet and come by the shop LOL...
[00:05:50] <ssi> I may end up having to do that anyway :P
[00:06:34] <PetefromTn> Pizza party!!
[00:10:33] <PetefromTn> Well gonna get to bed fellas. Nitey nite.
[00:23:59] <ssi> damit this is ridiculous
[00:52:23] <t12> anyone here use 8i20s?
[02:15:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:19:26] <uw> groin
[02:19:49] <DJ9DJ> hi there
[02:50:14] <Jymmm> alex_jon1: you on a mac?
[03:32:51] <abetusk> Aero-Tec3, when using soldermask, what do you do to expose the pads?
[03:59:51] <uw> whats a good bit for milling pcbs?
[04:00:01] <uw> that doesnt break every 5 mins
[04:01:19] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARBIDE-ROUTER-MICRO-BITS-COMBO-PACK-5-CNC-PCB-DREMEL-50-PIECE-/180989601772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a23d227ec
[04:02:15] <uw> ohh hoho i've had these little jobs before...
[04:03:05] <Tom_itx> they're different from a regular endmill
[04:03:52] <uw> i agree they break more too
[04:04:17] <Tom_itx> i etch my boards
[04:04:34] <uw> i was thinking about donig that....
[04:04:45] <uw> but i hav ea perfectly good cnc so why not use that?
[04:05:10] <Tom_itx> cut metal with it not FR4
[04:05:20] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[04:06:35] <uw> thats alot of clad boards where did you get them?
[04:06:41] <uw> look like 4x8 sheets LOL
[04:07:01] <Tom_itx> no but i do have 3x4 sheets i cut in half
[04:07:21] <ReadError_> uw i use a 60 or 90 degree one
[04:07:23] <ReadError_> works good
[04:08:07] <ReadError_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Apr%2019%2C%2010%2006%2025%20AM.jpg
[04:09:14] <ReadError_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2015%2C%2011%2014%2053%20AM.jpg
[04:09:18] <uw> that looks good ReadError_ did you use that python tool i read about to off set your gcode for the zaxis?
[04:09:20] <ReadError_> couple ive done
[04:09:26] <ReadError_> well
[04:09:33] <uw> you know what i mean?
[04:09:35] <ReadError_> i hooked a DMM to the endmill
[04:09:42] <ReadError_> then touched the other lead to the pcb
[04:09:58] <ReadError_> and went down at 0.001" until i got continuity
[04:10:03] <ReadError_> then set that as z=0
[04:10:14] <uw> ok so same thing accept manually
[04:10:14] <ReadError_> i made a little thing to try and keep the pcb pretty flat
[04:10:37] <ReadError_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2012%2C%204%2052%2025%20PM.jpg
[04:10:41] <ReadError_> some thick g10
[04:10:51] <uw> yea thats the issue i think ive had where it's higher in places than others
[04:11:06] <ReadError_> that was with a 90 i think
[04:11:22] <ReadError_> was my 1st so i didnt have all my settings perfect
[04:11:45] <ReadError_> also on that one
[04:11:49] <uw> that looks good too.
[04:11:53] <ReadError_> somehow my backlash compensation got turned off
[04:12:11] <ReadError_> thats why some of the traces got pretty thin
[04:12:11] <uw> what machine/motors are your running just curiuos?
[04:12:19] <ReadError_> just a little taig mill
[04:12:29] <ReadError_> 10k rpm
[04:12:32] <uw> ahh gotcha i have a sherline so im in the same boat
[04:12:42] <uw> open loop bipolar steppers from 1994
[04:13:13] <uw> it's ok, but the backlash i have issues with too, even if adjusted properlly
[04:13:29] <ReadError_> well with the software compensation on its pretty much dead on
[04:13:44] <ReadError_> stupid vim+reboot somehow had my settings in a .swp file
[04:13:53] <ReadError_> and the active file had them off
[04:13:55] <uw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__msa8Ntd0c
[04:13:56] <Tecan> (__msa8Ntd0c) "Paxton Patterson CNC milling machine running LinuxCNC, PyCAM Autocad" by "uw" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:30
[04:14:19] <Valen> we found the best way to keep it flat was vacuum
[04:14:36] <Valen> mill some MDF flat then put a grid in it
[04:14:47] <Valen> MDF is part of a box
[04:14:55] <Valen> attach vacuum cleaner to the box
[04:15:05] <Valen> holds it good and flat
[04:15:36] <uw> do you know what the runout of the surface is when you are about ready to mill valen?
[04:15:37] <ReadError_> i only do pretty small boards
[04:15:42] <ReadError_> if it was bigger i would do something like that
[04:15:51] <uw> thats all i'm looking to do too
[04:15:58] <Valen> dunno, it came out ok with a 45 deg cutter
[04:16:03] <Valen> or was it 25 or something
[04:16:09] <uw> pictures?
[04:16:17] <Valen> ummm they do exist
[04:16:24] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-pcb-for-spinzster.jpg
[04:16:29] <Valen> hah i even labeled it
[04:16:50] <Valen> then somehow i made this http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-soldermask-for-spinster-aluminium.jpg
[04:16:58] <Valen> NFI how though :-<
[04:17:09] <Valen> I know I did the same suck it down thing
[04:17:19] <Valen> but I dont know the tool path
[04:17:22] <Valen> tool chain
[04:17:35] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-soldermask-for-spinster-printed.jpg
[04:18:02] <ReadError_> nice i want to try making a stencil
[04:19:09] <ReadError_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Oct%2013%2C%206%2020%2057%20PM.jpg <--- when i started SMD soldering
[04:19:44] <ReadError_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2005%2C%202%2000%2013%20PM.jpg <-- now
[04:20:52] <uw> thats quite the board manuf abilities your cnc has....
[04:21:12] <ReadError_> the purple ones i got from oshpark
[04:22:27] <uw> haha yeaa
[04:22:39] <uw> i was GOING to say
[04:22:58] <uw> alright gtg thanks for the tips ReadError_ Valen Tom_itx
[04:25:56] <ReadError_> cya
[06:01:01] <RyanS_> That rusty ol bp in my area went for $2.5k
[06:41:54] <jthornton> dang that's more than scrap value I think
[07:54:16] <jdh> I only dove 5 days :(
[07:54:24] <jdh> <urk>
[08:28:31] <jdh> cheap dial indicators on friday from JTS: http://www.jtsmach.com/JTSWebShop/pdf_files/weekday_specials_070813.pdf
[08:30:07] <jthornton> that's cheap, I wonder if they work?
[08:30:22] <jdh> probably
[08:30:28] <Tom_itx> does it matter if they're cheap?
[08:30:31] <cradek> I bet the needle goes around in a circle
[08:30:42] <jdh> for a .001" indicator
[08:32:03] <archivist> resolution .001 accuracy .01 :)
[08:38:28] <jdh> none of the part numbers seem to work.
[08:59:16] <Aero-Tec3> abetusk, silk screen
[09:01:40] <Aero-Tec3> one maybe able to use a presentation projector to harden some areas and not others
[09:02:44] <Aero-Tec3> they use then with UV hardened fluids to make 3D plastic objects
[09:03:34] <Aero-Tec3> you would have to clean off the soft stuff later
[09:03:57] <Aero-Tec3> for small runs that maybe the way to go
[09:04:50] <Aero-Tec3> would be a pain to set up a silk screen and then screen for just one or even 10 boards
[09:05:25] <Aero-Tec3> a few hundred would be will worth it
[09:12:06] <Aero-Tec3> for applying the solder mask you could get a silk screen frame, with silk already stretched and tape off the screen to have a open area for your board and use that to lay down a nice thin print of solid solder mask
[09:13:14] <Aero-Tec3> expose it with the projector, one that connects to a computer, and use that to expose the ink
[09:13:25] <Aero-Tec3> tad high tech
[09:13:26] <JT-Shop> http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=41302
[09:15:33] <Aero-Tec3> not his day
[09:15:35] <Aero-Tec3> LOL
[09:16:00] <Aero-Tec3> playing bumper car with a scooter
[09:16:24] <Aero-Tec3> hitting every car and bus he could see
[09:16:43] <Aero-Tec3> but the ending is priceless
[09:16:48] <Aero-Tec3> LOL
[09:17:00] <JT-Shop> woops where did that hole come from
[09:17:19] <Aero-Tec3> LOL exactly
[09:17:44] <Aero-Tec3> thing is he did not look overly drunk
[09:18:09] <Aero-Tec3> walking fast and from what I could see straight
[09:18:19] <JT-Shop> looks like the only thing he had figured out was the throttle
[09:18:29] <Aero-Tec3> but his driving was saying I am plastered
[09:18:37] <Aero-Tec3> lol
[09:19:26] <Aero-Tec3> who needs steering, as long as I am moving that is all that counts
[09:21:04] <Aero-Tec3> not wanting to go anywhere particular any place will do, hell that hole looks nice, lets check it out, I am heading that way anyway.
[09:21:07] <Aero-Tec3> lol
[09:22:16] <FinboySlick> It looked pretty deep though.
[09:22:49] <Aero-Tec3> he did have a breaking system figured out, hit something, that seams to stop it, tad sudden but it does stop him
[09:23:21] <Aero-Tec3> not to deep, you did see the splash
[09:23:49] <Aero-Tec3> but yea he is not getting out with out some help
[09:24:41] <FinboySlick> Hopefully lesson learned.
[09:25:27] <Aero-Tec3> NEVER DRIVE AGAIN, anything
[09:25:30] <FinboySlick> I don't think I could handle indian roads myself.
[09:25:58] <Aero-Tec3> the roads are fine, it is the other drivers that are the problem
[09:26:20] <Aero-Tec3> some of the cliff roads are a bit much
[09:27:00] <Aero-Tec3> but with so many people what does it matter if we loose a few here and there
[09:27:20] <Aero-Tec3> that seams to be there attitude
[09:29:47] <Aero-Tec3> some of the things they call main roads are nothing more then animal trail cut into steep rock cliffs nose bleed high, and they do 2 way traffic there, the word insane comes to mind
[09:31:41] <jdh> this is canada?
[09:36:26] <jdh> would you ever use a roughing end mill on a slot? and then a finish cutter?
[09:36:47] <cradek> heck yeah
[09:36:52] <cradek> those things are great
[09:42:05] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec3: there are many variations on applying fluids to PCB's, much of it depends on budget, volume and self worth for DIY
[09:42:35] <CaptHindsight> you don't have to be concerned with layer thickness if you use a photopolymer as a mask
[09:42:57] <jdh> so, if you have low self-esteem, would it be better to silkscreen your own, or outsource it?
[09:43:47] <CaptHindsight> low self esteem makers always tend to do it all themselves, they value their time near 0
[09:46:16] <Aero-Tec3> I think I have tried then all, spinning, air brush spraying, silk screening, paint brush, roller I think that is all the ones I have tried
[09:46:42] <Aero-Tec3> did I miss any?
[09:47:02] <pcw_home> dipping?
[09:47:23] <Aero-Tec3> BTW, DIY is not a low self esteem thing
[09:47:55] <CaptHindsight> if the photopolymer is low viscosity say < 20cps at 20C and the surface tension is too low it will bead
[09:48:16] <Aero-Tec3> one can take great pride in learning things and the satisfaction of doing it yourself
[09:49:07] <CaptHindsight> it's when it crosses that "doing it to learn" line and into low volume production
[09:51:10] <Aero-Tec3> doing DIY is no different then reading a book or going for a drive to pass some time, except you may run the danger of learning something and learning to figure thing out, solve problems
[09:51:23] <ssi> +1
[09:51:40] <CaptHindsight> try using a higher viscosity photopolymer, it won't quickly run off the board or bead
[09:52:02] <CaptHindsight> after curing just wipe it down with IPA
[09:52:36] <CaptHindsight> that will remove the uncured (not polymerized) portions
[09:54:29] <Aero-Tec3> when I was young and doing DIY board production there was no place to send it to, hell when I started doing boards they did not have a computer good enough to do cad, traces were done with sticky tape
[09:54:34] <CaptHindsight> exposure time is ~1 sec for thin layers
[09:54:45] <Aero-Tec3> also use photo film
[09:55:40] <CaptHindsight> that link to the UV solder mask from Shenzhen was interesting
[09:57:22] <CaptHindsight> I didn't know that they were charging $20 per 100g
[09:57:27] <Aero-Tec3> oh and rub transfers, they were great, big step up from tape, stiff used tape for curved traces
[09:57:44] <Aero-Tec3> oops
[09:58:00] <Aero-Tec3> still not stiff
[10:00:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-UV-Curable-Solder-Mask-Repairing-Paint-Green-100g-/221250745866?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338392760a
[10:01:09] <CaptHindsight> this one is lower cost, 200 cps at 25C
[10:02:47] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if they are all polyesters
[10:03:40] <CaptHindsight> "Wash away the extra paint by gasoline or oil base solvent " lovely
[10:04:47] <pcw_home> sounds safe
[10:07:08] <CaptHindsight> it's not as easy in China to buy things like IPA or denatured alcohol
[10:08:01] <`Nerobro_> well alcahol is a polar solvent..
[10:08:08] <`Nerobro_> looks like they want a non-polar solvent
[10:08:13] <Aero-Tec3> pcw_home, BTW I did try dipping for applying photo resist on double sided boards, left a real heavy line/ spot at the bottom (depending if your dripping off the whole edge or just a corner and was not consistent, light on top and heavy at the bottom
[10:08:16] <`Nerobro_> IIRF
[10:08:17] <CaptHindsight> but you can fill up a bucket with gasoline just about anywhere
[10:08:17] <`Nerobro_> IIRC
[10:08:28] <`Nerobro_> and there, I bet the gasoline is actually gasoline
[10:08:33] <`Nerobro_> versus 15% alcahol
[10:09:09] <tjtr33> steve_stallings, hello, could you tell me a price and availability for the k9 board?
[10:09:23] <CaptHindsight> IPA works great for cleaning photopolymers
[10:09:33] <Aero-Tec3> hate that mixed/ blended gas
[10:09:52] <Aero-Tec3> I like real gas much better
[10:10:01] <ssi> I hate it more than you can imagine :/
[10:10:07] <pcw_home> We buy IPA from printing suppliers
[10:10:34] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, i remember the phrase 'fill it up' was suspiciously Jamaican sounding . I'd pull into a China Gas station and yell "JaMahn"
[10:10:35] <ssi> I have an autogas stc for my cherokee... but it's only legal for unblended gasoline
[10:10:42] <ssi> the ethanol eats the sealant in my fuel tanks
[10:11:40] <`Nerobro_> the alcahol/gasoline combination seems to disolve almsot anything
[10:12:00] <jdh> scrubs clean years of deposits, right in to the carbs/etc
[10:12:07] <ssi> I just pulled one tank and resealed the fuel sender access ring because it was leaking like a sieve
[10:12:17] <ssi> big stain down the bottom of the wing :/
[10:12:52] <Aero-Tec3> my uncle has a Cessna 185 with a auto gas kit, needed it for when he used his floats, could gas up with boat gas
[10:13:13] <ssi> these days you need it for the price
[10:13:19] <ssi> 100LL is hovering around the $6 mark
[10:14:18] <Aero-Tec3> ouch
[10:14:22] <jdh> there are a few stations here that do non-ethanol gas. Some just do non-ethanol premium
[10:14:29] <Aero-Tec3> that is just nasty
[10:14:31] <ssi> there are a couple, but they're not close by
[10:14:47] <ssi> I'm building the RV with all ethanol-tolerant sealants and seals
[10:16:08] <ssi> the only thing I'm not sure about yet is the engine driven fuel pump's diaphragm
[10:17:57] <Aero-Tec3> what motor are you using?
[10:18:04] <ssi> IO-360-C1C
[10:18:24] <`Nerobro_> you said RV, Ithought camper.
[10:18:29] * `Nerobro_ is building a Davis DA-2
[10:18:40] <jdh> surely after all these years of ethanol, they have a resistant diaphragm
[10:18:48] <ssi> jdh: you'd think that :)
[10:18:56] <ssi> there hasn't been any ethanol at all in aviation
[10:19:08] <ssi> `Nerobro_: looks like a wee bonanza :D
[10:19:09] <`Nerobro_> jdh, aircraft tech is MOSTLY 1930's tech.
[10:19:22] <`Nerobro_> ssi, except russians. :-)
[10:19:34] <ssi> I won't fly anything russian
[10:19:34] <ssi> heh
[10:19:44] <jdh> I woudln't drive anything russian.
[10:19:48] <ssi> that either
[10:20:11] <`Nerobro_> Well.. there's also ADI injection..
[10:20:11] <jdh> amazing number of russian dash cams on youtube. Amazing number of idiots caught on dashcams.
[10:20:15] <`Nerobro_> which is methanol+water
[10:20:37] <`Nerobro_> not that it really relates.
[10:20:43] <ssi> there's a team of RV-4s that is set up to run straight ethanol (or maybe E85)
[10:20:46] <ssi> but it's really not common
[10:21:07] <jdh> E85 has no power
[10:21:14] <`Nerobro_> jdh, what?
[10:21:26] <jdh> in my car anyway
[10:21:30] <ssi> it's got low energy density, but it's detonation resistant so you can run much higher compression
[10:21:37] <ssi> if you set up directly for E85 you can make power
[10:21:40] <`Nerobro_> jdh, what car do you have?
[10:21:48] <`Nerobro_> ssi: and it's somewhat oxygenated.
[10:21:49] <jdh> GMC yukon xl
[10:21:49] <ssi> but trying to run E85 in a gasoline engine isn't gonna do you much good
[10:21:51] <`Nerobro_> you can run more timing
[10:22:02] <Aero-Tec3> now russian drivers are real crazy, some of the things they drive on the road, and go like hell, bumper cars are a way of life for them it would seem, going by all the russian dash cams
[10:22:41] <ssi> `Nerobro_: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOqo-DqCAAAuRbW.jpg:large
[10:22:41] <`Nerobro_> ssi: how far along are you on the RV?
[10:23:05] <ssi> http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1002452_10100172352107502_451434214_n.jpg
[10:23:05] <`Nerobro_> wasn't I just talking about 1930's tech? ;-)
[10:23:07] <ssi> about that far
[10:23:15] <`Nerobro_> oh, not bad at all
[10:23:34] <ssi> I just set myself a goal of sun&fun next year to have it flying
[10:23:41] <ssi> I think with some effort (and a bunch of money) I can do that
[10:23:48] <ssi> I just ordered my prop
[10:23:53] <ssi> need to send will james a check for my cowl
[10:24:06] <`Nerobro_> I plan on carving my own prop. (likely several..)
[10:24:16] <ssi> brave :)
[10:24:24] <ssi> I need constant speed, so naturally that's not an option
[10:24:28] <`Nerobro_> A little. :-)
[10:24:37] <`Nerobro_> yeah, that's abit expensive.
[10:24:45] <ssi> I'm getting the relatively new hartzell blended airfoil prop
[10:24:49] <ssi> the one that's vaguely scimitar shaped
[10:24:52] * JT-Shop wonders why I keep having to log into the BP from this windblows computer
[10:24:53] <ssi> it's the fastest thing around for the RVs
[10:24:58] <`Nerobro_> Nice.
[10:25:08] <ssi> bought it new, through vans, on their oem discount
[10:25:09] <ssi> $7160
[10:25:10] <ssi> :/
[10:25:29] <`Nerobro_> I plan on using mine as a time machine.. So a steep prop and to hell with takeoff runs
[10:25:30] <`Nerobro_> :-)
[10:25:47] <ssi> yea I hear ya
[10:25:48] <ssi> but I want both
[10:26:04] <ssi> with 200hp and the CS prop, I should get 500' takeoff run, 2600fpm climbs, and 190kt :D
[10:26:22] * `Nerobro_ nods
[10:26:26] <`Nerobro_> yeah, I'm aiming more like 100hp
[10:26:43] <`Nerobro_> ... Iv'e never heard of a CS prop on a DA. :-)
[10:26:56] <ssi> typical takeoff weight should be in the vicinity of 1700lb
[10:27:01] <ssi> I'm gonna set gross at 2100
[10:27:04] <`Nerobro_> wow.
[10:27:10] <`Nerobro_> I'm still impressed by the climb. :-)
[10:27:12] <ssi> so power to weight will be quite good
[10:27:35] <ssi> stall speed is 40kt, vne is 200kt
[10:27:37] <`Nerobro_> no kidding. What's your useful load?
[10:27:48] <ssi> empty ought to come out around 1100
[10:27:53] <ssi> so figure 1000lb useful if I set gross at 2100
[10:28:04] <ssi> they recommend 1800lb gross, but you can set it wherever you want
[10:28:11] <ssi> gross is really a function of takeoff/climb power
[10:28:21] <`Nerobro_> and landing gear capacity..
[10:28:22] <ssi> and I'm going with the high end of powerplant options
[10:28:26] <ssi> yea
[10:28:46] <ssi> aerobatic gross is 1600lb WITHOUT FUEL
[10:28:46] <`Nerobro_> I realy wish there were some incentive to make "new" engines for aircraft use.
[10:28:53] <Aero-Tec3> to bad your gear is not retractable
[10:29:07] <`Nerobro_> we're still on shitty cylinder heads..
[10:29:14] <`Nerobro_> Aero-Tec3, insurance means retracts are a big cost.
[10:29:15] <ssi> Aero-Tec3: while I'd love to have a retract, I don't want the weight penalty, the complexity, the INSURANCE COSTS
[10:29:22] <`Nerobro_> Aero-Tec3, and you can forget to extend them
[10:29:29] <ssi> plus this airplane with fixed gear will be 30kt faster than most single retracts
[10:30:15] <Aero-Tec3> at a cost of fuel
[10:30:29] <ssi> nope
[10:30:37] <ssi> at a cost of gross weight
[10:30:40] <`Nerobro_> Aero-Tec3, well faired gear isn't a big drag concern
[10:30:45] <ssi> shoul ddo 190kt on 12gph max
[10:30:52] <ssi> it's one of the most efficient airplanes out there
[10:30:58] <`Nerobro_> ssi, I'm hoping for 4gph... :-)
[10:31:02] <ssi> yea ;)
[10:31:10] <ssi> what kind of speed do you think you'll get on 100hp?
[10:31:19] <`Nerobro_> around 120mph
[10:31:40] <`Nerobro_> 130 if i fly high enough :-)
[10:31:47] <ssi> heheh
[10:31:55] <ssi> I'm putting oxygen in the rv too
[10:31:58] <ssi> I Want to get it up high and go fast
[10:32:10] <`Nerobro_> I'm debating the wing tips
[10:32:15] <`Nerobro_> Davis goes square
[10:32:23] <Aero-Tec3> turbo and or super charger
[10:32:34] <Aero-Tec3> with inter coolers
[10:32:40] <ssi> Aero-Tec3: nah, again too much cost/complexity
[10:32:41] <`Nerobro_> but I like the idea of getting another two feet of effective wingspan with the hoffman? (angled cut) tips
[10:32:46] <ssi> solve that problem with high power to weight ratio
[10:32:57] <ssi> service ceiling on 200hp naturally aspirated is 25,500'
[10:33:16] <`Nerobro_> which is well above YOUR ceiling :-)
[10:33:25] <ssi> probably
[10:33:35] <ssi> with oxygen, it'd be worth trying ;)
[10:33:40] <ssi> I'd like to at least get it into the low flight levels
[10:33:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com/category.aspx?categoryID=163 $13.85/gal for Sonoco 112
[10:33:57] <ssi> fl250 is up in the RVSM layers, which I can't really do
[10:34:00] <Aero-Tec3> sound like fun
[10:34:17] <`Nerobro_> ssi, aw, come on, an autopilot is easy
[10:34:23] <`Nerobro_> But you'd be a rolling roadblock :-)
[10:34:25] <`Nerobro_> erm
[10:34:26] <`Nerobro_> flying roadblock
[10:34:39] <ssi> RVSM is a legal thing, not a skill tihng :P
[10:34:48] <ssi> and I don't care if I'm in the way
[10:34:55] <ssi> ATC gets paid too much money, let them work around me :)
[10:35:02] <ssi> (my best friend is a controller)
[10:35:04] <CaptHindsight> ssi: what the average price for av100?
[10:35:08] <ssi> about $6
[10:35:17] <`Nerobro_> I thought RVSM requires autopilot, and not a whole lot else
[10:35:29] <ssi> no it's more than that
[10:35:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.100ll.com/
[10:36:12] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, power up that mill yet?
[10:36:12] <ssi> oh but rvsm starts at fl290
[10:36:14] <ssi> so never mind :)
[10:36:20] <CaptHindsight> does that mean it's cheaper to fly a jet? :)
[10:36:29] <ssi> per gallon? yes
[10:36:40] <ssi> per passenger (if you have 300+ of them)? yes
[10:36:44] <ssi> other than that, no
[10:37:13] <ssi> "State aircraft", which includes aircraft used in military, customs and police service, are exempted from the requirement to be RVSM approved
[10:37:14] <CaptHindsight> weren't they practically giving away Mig's on ebay?
[10:37:16] <ssi> bastards
[10:37:19] <ssi> hahah
[10:37:21] <ssi> yea you can get them cheap
[10:37:30] <ssi> you can't afford to maintain or operate them though :P
[10:37:44] <CaptHindsight> but they get you on the parts
[10:39:14] <ssi> `Nerobro_: I'm going to be doing my wingtips soon
[10:39:17] <ssi> may start on them tomorrow night
[10:39:26] <`Nerobro_> Hornier wing tips.
[10:39:28] <`Nerobro_> There we go
[10:39:31] <ssi> yep thems the ones
[10:39:38] <ssi> I have hoerner tips on my cherokee
[10:39:42] <ssi> and the rv stock tips are hoerner
[10:39:49] <ssi> they do help
[10:40:05] <`Nerobro_> that said, I will need to check the spar strength before I commit.
[10:40:16] <ssi> why, think the tips are too heavy?
[10:40:31] <`Nerobro_> No, but they change lift distribution.
[10:40:41] <ssi> they change effective span
[10:40:44] <`Nerobro_> Right.
[10:40:45] <ssi> so yea I guess so
[10:41:24] <`Nerobro_> By quite a lot going from a flat tip to the hoerner tips.
[10:41:27] <ssi> did you scratch build it?
[10:41:36] <`Nerobro_> Well, I am in the process of that, yes. :-)
[10:41:40] <ssi> how far along are you
[10:41:45] <ssi> got any pics?
[10:44:22] <`Nerobro_> A dozen ribs. Not very far along.
[10:44:26] <ssi> haha ok
[10:44:33] <ssi> I started scratchbuilding a pitts s1ss
[10:44:38] <`Nerobro_> Ooh.
[10:44:46] <ssi> I have top and bottom fuselage trusses welded up, but then I put it aside to focus on the RV
[10:44:48] <`Nerobro_> That's not an easy plane
[10:44:54] <ssi> not easy to flyp
[10:44:57] <ssi> it's easy to build
[10:45:01] <ssi> as easy as any scratchbuilt anyway
[10:45:21] <`Nerobro_> I like the ease of flat panels of sheet metal
[10:45:33] <`Nerobro_> virtually welding, and just a fuckton of rivets.
[10:45:36] <ssi> RV sheetmetal is easy
[10:45:42] <ssi> scratchbuild sheetmetal is less easy
[10:45:48] <`Nerobro_> aren't they pre-punching the metal now?
[10:45:50] <ssi> yep
[10:45:52] <ssi> it's a breeze
[10:46:06] <ssi> and it all aligns well, so there's very little jigging required
[10:46:24] <ssi> if I had to beat ribs over a formblock, I'd go crazy
[10:46:25] <ssi> hahaha
[10:46:44] <`Nerobro_> Well, having a 17' wingspan helps ;-)
[10:46:51] <ssi> yea
[10:46:55] <ssi> rv7 is only 25'
[10:47:00] <ssi> the rv4 is 23 I think
[10:47:09] <`Nerobro_> I almost went with a RV airfoil
[10:47:22] <ssi> yea it's a good one
[10:47:39] <`Nerobro_> but I did the math.. and while it would have helpted the high speed aspect I am a noob pilot, and it's stall is a lot more harsh than the USA 35b
[10:47:49] <`Nerobro_> Which has, for all intents and pruposes, no break
[10:47:55] <ssi> meh
[10:48:02] <ssi> by the time it's flying, you can be over that
[10:48:29] <ssi> I've talked to so many rv builders that built nosewheel airplanes because "When I started I was scared of taildraggers"
[10:48:36] <ssi> and a lot of them end up regretting it
[10:48:44] <Connor> ssi: Get it figured out ?
[10:48:47] <ssi> Connor: nope
[10:48:52] <ssi> I'm pretty irritated with it :P
[10:49:03] <ssi> I managed to take it back apart without separating the lower bearing
[10:49:16] <ssi> the upper one definitely wasn't seated all the way, but I seated it fully, put it back together
[10:49:17] <Connor> you get the lower bearing off too ?
[10:49:19] <ssi> and still the same thing
[10:49:22] <ssi> I didn't get it off the spindle
[10:49:26] <ssi> but I got it out of the housing
[10:49:50] <JT-Shop> after I put Dad's 170 back together and painted it I would taxi it up and down the taxi strip at Moisant for practice
[10:50:01] <ssi> that's good practice :)
[10:50:08] <`Nerobro_> I'm not scared of taildraggers. :-)
[10:50:15] <ssi> I'm not either
[10:50:20] <JT-Shop> my excuse was I needed to get to a power outlet at the FBO
[10:50:30] <ssi> I'd love to have a 170
[10:50:33] <ssi> they're great
[10:50:45] <`Nerobro_> I've done a lot of taildragger stuff with r/c
[10:51:16] <JT-Shop> yea, when he sold it to some gal she propmtly ground looped it and tore the gear box out on one side
[10:51:22] <ssi> daww
[10:53:19] <JT-Shop> yea the plane was in excellent shape
[10:53:59] <JT-Shop> Dad bought it out of some guys back yard and everything was in boxes... what a puzzle at first
[10:55:20] <ssi> Connor: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOvirS1CIAAoYCf.jpg:large
[10:55:25] <ssi> Connor: beautiful artwork I know
[10:55:41] <ssi> Connor: but that's how I put it together... it seems right to me, but for some reason I can't make it work for nothin
[10:56:35] <DJ9DJ> re
[10:56:52] <jdh> why the shims on different sides of the bearings?
[10:57:03] <jdh> (vs. both inside or outside)
[10:57:09] <ssi> that's how I was told to do it :P
[10:58:02] <PetefromTn> ssi: Jeez man that's all wrong....;)
[10:58:09] <ssi> thanks pete
[10:59:06] <Connor> Looks right to me..
[10:59:25] <Connor> only things I can see would be the lower or upper bearings not seated all the way.
[10:59:39] <ssi> originally the upper wasn't seated all the way
[10:59:42] <ssi> but now it certainly is
[11:00:06] <ssi> I can tighten the upper retainer as tight as I can possibly get it, and it never gets draggy
[11:00:15] <ssi> and the spindle has barely perceptible endplay in the housing
[11:01:13] <Connor> PetefromTn: After we did mine.. we had no endplay did we ?
[11:02:45] <PetefromTn> Not that I can recall..
[11:02:56] <PetefromTn> ssi: Just kiddin' man jeez..
[11:04:36] <ssi> yea yea ;)
[11:05:30] <jdh> need an extra shim?
[11:05:49] <ssi> no, I've tried it with inordinate amounts of shims, with no change
[11:05:57] <jdh> to make up for the space where the upper bearing wasn't seated?
[11:06:14] <ssi> the replacement bearings are thinner than the stock bearings
[11:06:19] <ssi> thats why the shims are there
[11:06:43] <jdh> right, but you said one bearing wasn't seated, so there was that extra space also
[11:07:02] <ssi> the upper retainer is threaded
[11:07:19] <ssi> the upper shims are only there to keep the retainer from bottoming on its thread
[11:07:38] <Aero-Tec3> JT-Shop, did you get back up and flying?
[11:08:02] <jdh> so, I should rethink my plan of just sending you mine to replace?
[11:08:13] <ssi> perhaps :)
[11:08:16] <Connor> ROFL
[11:08:37] <JT-Shop> I never did get a license but I used to fly the 170 and the 310 from time to time... the 310 really picks up speed on the down hill
[11:08:53] <Connor> I don't think we had that much trouble.. but.. we used the shims on the spindle.. before the large bearing..
[11:09:05] <ssi> yeah, and maybe that's my problem, but I can't see how
[11:09:09] <Connor> You sure the lower is seated all the way ?
[11:09:13] <ssi> pretty sure
[11:09:23] <PetefromTn> ssi: Tell you what, you send me your spindle and millhead and I will make it all work and all you gotta do is teach me to fly LOL....Piece of cake.
[11:09:30] <jdh> I'm going to wait on the bearings until I come across a new motor & belt drive.
[11:11:28] <ssi> Connor: at this point, if I want to change it, I'll probably have to do like you did and cut the inner race off
[11:11:48] <ssi> it's tight up against the spindle, and I don't think there's any lip on the bearing to press on
[11:11:51] <Connor> we used deep wheel sockets on the top of the spindle.. and compressed it in the press while also compressing the bottom.. (I think we used something soft under the spindle nose to keep from marring it)
[11:12:37] <Connor> then.. We used a dead blow on the spindle to "adjust" the preload so it spun freely.
[11:13:18] <Connor> one of us held the casing while the other hit the spindle.. just enough to free it up a tad.
[11:14:27] <jdh> is he one?
[11:14:55] <Connor> huh?
[11:15:02] <Connor> Me and PetefromTn
[11:15:57] <PetefromTn> Huh, you talking about me?
[11:16:23] <Connor> No. just explaining how we put the spindle in the press and then used the dead blow to free it up a tad
[11:18:45] <PetefromTn> It was not difficult at all really as I recall, just some careful pressing and persuasion.
[11:19:04] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:19:08] <Connor> yea.. I'm thinking he's not getting both bearings seated at the same time..
[11:20:19] <jdh> c'mon, hoss did it with one hand. he does everything with one hand
[11:20:45] <Connor> Yea.. that's the art and magic of video. :)
[11:21:10] <ssi> I guess that's why he always sounds like he's gonna pass out
[11:21:14] <ssi> must be hard to seat bearings one-handed
[11:22:07] <jdh> ever kind of expect him to keel over halfway through one?
[11:22:18] <ssi> nah
[11:22:30] <Connor> how would the video get on youtube then ? :)
[11:22:32] <ssi> the realist in me understands that that fateful video won't make it to youtube :)
[11:25:02] <PetefromTn> Funny you guys mention those videos... I am STUNNED at how good he can make a TINY little milling machine made in china look in them. I mean you would swear they are miniturized VMC's that can cut right through hardened steel full slot in a single pass 3" deep!! The guy is nothing if not a PRO videographer...
[11:25:16] <ssi> haha I dunno that I'd go that far
[11:25:22] <ssi> half his videos aren't even in focus
[11:26:10] <PetefromTn> Hell I would... before I actually saw an x2 in person I would have sworn they were almost as big as my old RF45.... Then I went to Harbor Freight and saw one in person and almost had to pick up my jaw off the floor.
[11:26:29] <ssi> :P
[11:26:40] * `Nerobro_ needs to throw steppers on his mill
[11:26:41] <PetefromTn> That is completely due to his ability to video those machines somehow to make them look much larger then they are.
[11:26:45] * `Nerobro_ built a Brute Mini Mill
[11:27:07] <ssi> PetefromTn: I think that's cause he's always shooting from a seated position
[11:27:20] <PetefromTn> Say what you want but he sure knows how to make a TINY mill look much bigger than they actually are in reality.
[11:27:27] <ssi> get someone to follow you around in a wheelchair with a camera, you'll look much bigger than you are :)
[11:27:30] <Connor> Could it be his big hands causing stuff to look out of proportion to normal sized hands ?
[11:27:32] <PetefromTn> ssi: Possibly... or he's a magician
[11:28:07] <PetefromTn> wouldn't that be the opposite effect?
[11:28:30] <Connor> maybe. I dunno. My brain works different than most. :)
[11:29:19] <PetefromTn> I know there is one thing for damn sure there are TONS of people who worship at the feet of his mini mill madness and line up to buy his videos and stuff regardless of how rudimentary some of it seems.
[11:29:19] <ssi> accepting it is the first step to recovery :D
[11:29:29] <ssi> PetefromTn: you got that right :P
[11:29:46] <PetefromTn> ROFL..
[11:30:13] <`Nerobro_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB9t5WjCgic My mill
[11:30:18] <`Nerobro_> Sadly, not CNC yet...
[11:31:10] <ssi> haha I hate the sound of high speed routers cutting aluminum
[11:31:20] <ssi> looks like it cuts good though
[11:31:21] <`Nerobro_> the scream is insane.
[11:31:33] <`Nerobro_> That said, a sheet of cardboard knocks down theworst of the noise
[11:31:47] <`Nerobro_> the really high frequency stuff is stopped dead by a little bit of paper.
[11:32:13] <ssi> I assure you, that is NOT how they make glitter ;)
[11:32:35] <`Nerobro_> tee hee hee
[11:32:44] <Connor> `Nerobro_: Mute works too.
[11:32:45] <`Nerobro_> Glitter, used to be actual metal flake
[11:32:51] <`Nerobro_> thankfully, that isn't the case anymore.
[11:32:57] <ssi> Connor: where's the mute button on the mill?
[11:32:58] <`Nerobro_> Connor, mute doens't work in real life :-)
[11:33:49] <Connor> What are you machining ?alum ?
[11:33:51] <PetefromTn> jeez man that cutter sound pretty out or that router is gonna EXPLODE!!
[11:33:53] <JT-Shop> sweetl I just did a G33.1 on the BP
[11:33:59] <ssi> JT-Shop: :D
[11:34:08] <`Nerobro_> Connor, Aluminum.
[11:34:12] <`Nerobro_> 6061
[11:34:16] <PetefromTn> break the tap?
[11:34:17] <`Nerobro_> that's a 3/4" bit
[11:34:21] <`Nerobro_> that i'm using as a flycutter.
[11:34:29] <Connor> got any pictures of the mill?
[11:34:43] <`Nerobro_> http://www.practicalalchemy.org/~nerobro/public/Pictures/BruteMill/
[11:34:50] <`Nerobro_> http://www.practicalalchemy.org/~nerobro/public/Pictures/BruteMill/BruteMill_75.JPG
[11:35:18] <jdh> I think Hoss's stuff is great for toy chinese mills
[11:35:33] <jdh> if anyone is expecting anythign more than that, they should read more.
[11:35:55] <PetefromTn> is that an HF router?
[11:36:21] <Connor> http://www.practicalalchemy.org/~nerobro/public/Pictures/BruteMill/BruteMill_70.JPG
[11:36:26] <Connor> that's a good picture of it.
[11:36:27] <PetefromTn> jdh: From what little I have seen of it I was not impressed with some of the design
[11:37:01] <Connor> PetefromTn: The shaft adapter for my Z or the way to attach the pulley to the spindle ?
[11:37:03] <PetefromTn> Love the pipe flanges column...
[11:37:14] <`Nerobro_> PetefromTn, yes, it is.
[11:37:23] <PetefromTn> Connor: Take your pick?
[11:37:47] <Connor> ROFL. Understand MOST people didn't bother with the Z adapter as the went Phase 2 with ball screws..
[11:37:59] <Connor> and I'm still not sure of a better way to do the pulley..
[11:38:01] <jdh> the shaft adapter is stupid
[11:38:05] <PetefromTn> `Nerobro_: Not picking on you man that is some piece of work and it is WORKING so nice job man.
[11:38:19] <syyl__> hehe
[11:38:28] <syyl__> the machine in the video is screaming like hell
[11:38:35] <syyl__> i would push it more :D
[11:38:36] <PetefromTn> ROFL...
[11:38:37] <`Nerobro_> PetefromTn, Thanks. :-) And any picking is apreciated.
[11:38:48] <jdh> what's the pulley attachment?
[11:38:54] <PetefromTn> run it til it EXPLODES!!
[11:38:56] <syyl__> then it has no time to scream
[11:39:09] <`Nerobro_> PetefromTn, hard to argue with a $20 spindle motor...
[11:39:18] <Connor> jdh: The way the pulley attaches to the spindle..
[11:39:29] <PetefromTn> I agree man. I just made a router mount for my Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC!! LOL
[11:39:51] <PetefromTn> I am gonna use my Porter cable router tho...
[11:39:52] <Connor> the 4 grub screws in the pulley.. 2 of which engage the spline.. and also hold the pulley..
[11:40:08] <`Nerobro_> The rpm is to high to cut steel though. I need to make a spindle that'll cut "real metal" at some point.
[11:40:08] <jdh> oh.
[11:40:31] <PetefromTn> `Nerobro_: I would probably just be happy it cuts aluminum man....
[11:40:32] <jdh> that's kind of whack... otherwise you need a spline adapter and a large bore pulley?
[11:40:52] <PetefromTn> Or you could just buy a pulley and have it wire edm'd
[11:41:04] <jdh> not for that price
[11:41:05] <Connor> or, a way to make splines in your pulley.. or a way to keys
[11:41:06] <ssi> the grub screws are fine :P
[11:41:08] <`Nerobro_> I have plans from the same guy for a "stronger" mill
[11:41:10] <syyl__> wire edm is for uncreative people :D
[11:41:19] <syyl__> same for ram edm
[11:41:22] <`Nerobro_> that design was made for etching circuit boards.
[11:41:27] <PetefromTn> Yeah color me UNCREATIVE..
[11:41:34] <syyl__> ;)
[11:41:40] <`Nerobro_> I figure his stronger design will work for steel.
[11:41:44] <ssi> `Nerobro_: where do the extrusions for your axes come from?
[11:41:52] <`Nerobro_> Storefront window frames
[11:41:58] <PetefromTn> Helps that I have a neighbor local who owns a few mitsubishi CNC wire edms tho...
[11:41:59] <ssi> wow neat
[11:42:17] <PetefromTn> Now thats creative..
[11:42:18] <syyl__> not ment to be mean
[11:42:25] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, thats hilarious
[11:42:27] <Connor> bah.. It's all good in the end.. it works.. might be better ways to do it.. but.. consider who he's designing it for.. Cheap Hobbyist with little to no existing tooling.
[11:42:27] <syyl__> :)
[11:42:45] <syyl__> if i get the chance for a small ram edm i will buy it
[11:42:54] <JT-Shop> tjtr33: the video?
[11:43:24] <syyl__> i havent come across a benchtop wire edm machine.. ;)
[11:43:36] <`Nerobro_> syyl__, no reason you couldn't make one...
[11:43:55] <Connor> `Nerobro_: What the extra T for on the column ?
[11:44:06] <`Nerobro_> Connor, just what i had available to me
[11:44:14] <PetefromTn> someone built a sinker edm that was homebuilt awhile back.
[11:44:22] <Connor> and is that just normal C channel alumn for the table ?
[11:44:28] <ssi> what's the sheet plastic that you're using?
[11:44:31] <syyl__> homebuilt ram edms are pretty common
[11:44:38] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, yes, i didnt know i was scrolled so far back, but i love that vid
[11:44:40] <syyl__> but nothing for precise work :\
[11:44:41] <`Nerobro_> Connor, Storefront aluminum. it's a fairly compelex extrusion
[11:44:52] <`Nerobro_> ssi, PVC
[11:45:00] <ssi> gotcha
[11:45:03] <ssi> what part of the world are you in?
[11:45:04] <`Nerobro_> I'd like to replace it with aluminum at some point
[11:45:08] <`Nerobro_> chicago
[11:45:10] <PetefromTn> Connor is gonna whip up a copy of the nerobo master mill now...
[11:45:22] <Connor> Nah.
[11:45:25] <`Nerobro_> It's a Klienuber Brute
[11:45:35] <Connor> I've got a X/Y table I can mount on a drill press..
[11:45:42] <PetefromTn> Oops a Kleinuber BRUTE model III
[11:45:45] <Connor> My drill press is just a bit too small for it.
[11:46:06] <PetefromTn> The Kleinuber BRUTE...by Faberge...
[11:46:18] <ssi> pete, you're showing your age
[11:46:26] <PetefromTn> oops my bad...
[11:46:30] <PetefromTn> LOL
[11:47:47] <`Nerobro_> I tried using a x-y table in a d rill press
[11:47:49] <`Nerobro_> it was not good
[11:48:11] <ssi> drill press spindles don't do sideloads well
[11:48:16] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, i just noticed the site icon for that video is the infamous CNC MudFlap Girl
[11:48:20] <`Nerobro_> that's the understatement of the week.
[11:48:24] <ssi> :)
[11:48:35] <JT-Shop> tjtr33: I missed that
[11:48:37] <Connor> PetefromTn: I got the dimensions of my adapter plate for my rotary table..
[11:48:58] <jdh> ssi: replace your drill press bearings with ACB's
[11:49:03] <PetefromTn> Connor: You make that drawbar plate from that steel I gave you yet?
[11:49:09] <Loetmichel> ssi: and if its a chinese drill press it has enough "play" beween the quill and the head to trow an elephant through ;-)
[11:49:10] <ssi> you know how well that'll go :P
[11:49:17] <ssi> yep
[11:49:29] <Connor> No. Won't be able to get to that till next week. To much stuff.. going out of town this weekend.
[11:49:47] <PetefromTn> You're like a moviestar going out of town all the time.
[11:50:12] <PetefromTn> You even try out that nice endmill you bought yet?
[11:50:23] <Connor> oh, and my digital calipers.. the inside jaws.. are funky.. the read dead on close in. but are a few .001's out toward the end..
[11:50:36] <syyl__> if you want to use a drillpress for milling
[11:50:39] <syyl__> i think thats the way
[11:50:40] <syyl__> http://vincechanblog.ca/cnc/cnc.html
[11:50:41] <Connor> Hell no. I still have to put the motor and original pulley back on.
[11:50:52] <Connor> and fix the wire in the motor harness.
[11:50:57] <PetefromTn> oh man we're off to a good start.
[11:51:02] * `Nerobro_ has a $50 chinese drill press
[11:51:04] <`Nerobro_> it wanders..
[11:51:11] <Connor> yea.. well.. life gets in the way of play sometimes.
[11:51:20] <Connor> that's why it's taken me over a year to do the convesion
[11:51:32] <ssi> heh I bought my 704 in 2009
[11:51:35] <PetefromTn> amazes me how many benchtop chinese drill presses that sold for $50.00 new are for sale on craigslist for $100.00...
[11:52:01] <PetefromTn> yeah life sure does sometimes...me too!!
[11:52:01] <syyl__> back then, 1975 they where more costly :D
[11:52:05] <CaptHindsight> how about Chinese mill/drills for $3K!
[11:52:20] <ssi> although in that time I've converted a 602, the HNC, that atrump mill, redid my plasma table, and a stable of 3d printers :P
[11:52:25] <PetefromTn> Oh yeah I love those. I bought my last round column mill drill for $300.00
[11:52:48] <PetefromTn> ssi: and built two airplanes and an F1 car....
[11:52:49] <syyl__> cant one get a full size bridgeport for 3k? ;)
[11:52:53] <`Nerobro_> my chinese drill press has seved me very well.
[11:52:54] <ssi> PetefromTn: something like that :)
[11:53:09] <ssi> syyl__: I paid 3k for my enco bridgeport clone
[11:53:12] <CaptHindsight> I get bridgeports for ~$1k
[11:53:13] <ssi> it was in very good shape
[11:53:21] <PetefromTn> I had one of those and it worked okay for awhile then the motor blew so I sold the carcass for $2500
[11:53:28] <PetefromTn> $25.00\\
[11:53:48] <PetefromTn> damn keyboard
[11:54:17] <PetefromTn> Connor: Just lemme know when you want to come over to make that plate, bring your laptop harddrive reclamation technology with you LOL
[11:54:49] <Connor> Ha. I need you to remove the HD and take a picture of the connector so I bring the right thing..
[11:54:57] <Connor> I'm hoping it's SATA
[11:55:08] <PetefromTn> Well I gotta get off here and get some drawing done on this kitchen or it'll never get built.
[11:55:08] <Connor> just depends on the age of the laptop.
[11:55:23] <PetefromTn> Okay I will pull it here its just a screw and a plate thankfully...
[11:55:34] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/263762 $3500 delivered
[11:55:34] <Connor> yea.
[11:55:37] <PetefromTn> Its not that old maybe three years..
[11:55:44] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[11:55:52] * JT-Shop goes to eat lunch then the acid test G33.1 on 6061 on the BP!
[11:55:54] <Connor> should be SATA then.
[11:56:14] <PetefromTn> CaptHindsight: Yeah exactly why the hell would you want a bridgeport floppy when you can buy a monster like that LOL
[11:56:19] <CaptHindsight> the BP on the right was $900
[11:56:32] <PetefromTn> I'll give you $100.00 for it...
[11:56:37] <PetefromTn> can you deliver?
[11:56:46] <CaptHindsight> we still use it
[11:58:04] <CaptHindsight> we don't machine much, just revisions or customizations
[11:58:23] <CaptHindsight> deals are out there
[11:58:59] <PetefromTn> Yeah I have gotten a few deals...
[11:59:18] <PetefromTn> ;)
[12:01:34] <jdh> why does one use a corner radius end mill?
[12:02:07] <cradek> to avoid making sharp inside corners
[12:02:08] <IchGuckLive> to avoid breaks in material on hardening
[12:02:25] <IchGuckLive> cracks
[12:02:27] <cradek> also molds for casting etc
[12:02:37] <Connor> longer lasting endmil
[12:03:02] <IchGuckLive> Connor: dont agree on that
[12:03:17] <IchGuckLive> it is not lasting longer on normal use
[12:03:28] <syyl__> it does
[12:03:36] <syyl__> and it allows higher feed rates when facing
[12:03:39] <Connor> You can break the tips off the 90 part..
[12:03:58] <Connor> which ruins the end mill.. or they can dull quickly.
[12:04:06] <syyl> the radiused cutting corners are much tougher than sharp edges
[12:04:28] <IchGuckLive> overtaken
[12:04:31] <syyl> i use them a lot in machining tool steel and hardened parts
[12:04:44] <Connor> overtaken ?
[12:04:52] <Connor> or overruled ? :)
[12:05:04] <IchGuckLive> <= is overtaken by the miling experts
[12:06:58] <tjtr33> syyl_ benchtop edm, runs 110 single phase, this is a good model http://cnj.craigslist.org/tls/3911383171.html
[12:08:02] <jdh> you shoudl buy that, and edm me a pulley to fit my spindle spline
[12:08:45] <ssi> you'd have to make a spline sink
[12:10:13] <jthornton> jdh, they last longer than sharp cornered end mills
[12:10:26] <tjtr33> use a thin copper plate (<3mm) to get a straight hole ( long tools get dirt on side and then you have a tapered hole )
[12:10:28] <Connor> what's a spline sink ?
[12:11:01] <jdh> I'm looking for some 1/4" end mills that cut better than my chinese crap HSS ones.
[12:11:17] <jdh> lots of radius ones
[12:11:41] <Connor> I think Pete said Maritiools 3 flute worked really good for alum
[12:13:18] <jthornton> I use Lakeshore Carbide for all my end mills, Maritool doesn't make the end mills only the holders which I use
[12:15:01] <syyl> nice tjtr33
[12:15:07] <syyl> friend has this small agie
[12:15:09] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/agie_boden.jpg
[12:15:26] <syyl> i told him, he needs that machine, so he bought it
[12:15:39] <syyl> now i am mad at myself, as i didnt buy it :D
[12:16:04] <jdh> what do they use for fluid?
[12:16:15] <tjtr33> hehe i got 2 ABs in basement , thou his 'finestuffe' generator lloks like it runs ( sensitive relay for servo :)
[12:16:27] <syyl> at the moment diesel
[12:16:32] <tjtr33> kerosene !
[12:16:35] <syyl> but he is looking for real dielectricum
[12:17:06] <jdh> bet that smells
[12:17:28] <tjtr33> haha no suchj thing 'real dielectric' its a sales scam, jusyt another level on the cracker tower, and a high price to you
[12:18:09] <tjtr33> water works fine too, not even de-ionized if you dont reuse it. did several machines for GE that way
[12:19:04] <tjtr33> if you want cheap commercial edm oil, try CLC or Commonwealth
[12:19:50] <syyl> we get the dielectricum in nice 200l barrels ;)
[12:20:29] <syyl> it feels like some kind of petroleum
[12:20:37] <syyl> but doesnt stink
[12:21:33] <tjtr33> there a great booklet from oel-held on dielectric fluids ( yes parafinids are the common fluids )
[12:23:52] <Loetmichel> hmm
[12:24:03] <Loetmichel> demineralized water SHOULD work also
[12:24:08] <Loetmichel> and be much cheaper
[12:24:15] <Loetmichel> but will rust anything in reach ;-)
[12:25:00] <jdh> Pete: http://tricities.craigslist.org/tls/3816274243.html
[12:25:01] <tjtr33> yes it does, for sink edm, i machined titanium turboprops, huge grey foamy mess. yek!
[12:26:15] <syyl> wire edm runs with water
[12:26:27] <syyl> and everything thats not stainless rusts like hell :D
[12:27:11] <tjtr33> yep, thin kerf almost fulla wire needs thin agent to flush, thus hi pressure flushing = speed on wedm
[12:28:28] <syyl> "speed"
[12:28:29] <syyl> ;)
[12:28:55] <syyl> our wire edm guy sets up his three machines a few ours
[12:29:01] <syyl> and then watches the wire running ;)
[12:29:10] <tjtr33> GE's problem began as 'what do we do with the oil filters' and became 'what do we do with these water filters' :)
[12:29:37] <syyl> :D
[12:29:39] <tjtr33> yep edm is slow, but whatcha gonna do for a rib slot or a square corner?
[12:29:41] <jdh> which GE?
[12:29:51] <tjtr33> Syracuse
[12:30:02] <tjtr33> (watervliet)
[12:30:46] <syyl> shaping head
[12:30:50] <syyl> filling machine
[12:30:52] <syyl> ;)
[12:31:08] <tjtr33> .024"x1"x67d deep
[12:31:21] <syyl> no of course in modern tool making there is no alternative to wire/ram edm
[12:31:32] <tjtr33> .024"x1"x.675 deep
[12:31:39] * syyl grabs his calc
[12:32:26] <syyl> 0,61mm wide, 17,14mm deep?
[12:32:29] <syyl> i can mill that
[12:32:52] <syyl> but it will take as long as with wire edm
[12:33:18] <tjtr33> its not thru, its a thin cavity
[12:33:42] <IchGuckLive> syyl: even longrer
[12:34:01] <syyl> as said, we can mill it :D
[12:34:06] <IchGuckLive> 0.4 start drill 2min
[12:34:39] <IchGuckLive> as hard as 60HRC about 25min of cutting
[12:34:49] <IchGuckLive> EDM
[12:35:21] <IchGuckLive> on cutting thrue only
[12:36:23] <IchGuckLive> if it is airvent mold hole it is a miss on doing it with CU E 0.35
[12:36:46] <IchGuckLive> go thrue and close it from Backside
[12:36:48] <syyl> 0,5x17mm endmill, and attack it :D
[12:37:05] <IchGuckLive> at 120k RPM
[12:37:13] <IchGuckLive> airdriven
[12:37:25] <IchGuckLive> makes a cool noice
[12:37:37] <syyl> it has max rpm of ~25k
[12:38:23] <syyl> in hardended steel i would run it about 15k
[12:38:39] <tjtr33> http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/cutting-tool-strategies-for-milling-ribs milling seems faster but strategy weakens as depth increases
[12:38:58] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7kB1nAy7xI
[12:38:59] <tjtr33> we often had to cut > 50mm depth
[12:38:59] <Tecan> (t7kB1nAy7xI) "Druckluftspindel von Mannesmann Demag in CNC-Bearbeitungszentrum" by "MDDrucklufttechnik" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:50
[12:39:07] <syyl> milling has absolutely its limits
[12:39:46] <IchGuckLive> therefor moldmaking uses multiple technologies
[12:39:57] <syyl> but with good tooling you can do a lot of funny things
[12:40:12] <IchGuckLive> agree
[12:40:25] <IchGuckLive> therfor we build multiple funny mashines
[12:41:49] <IchGuckLive> as you see my universal all axis in one mashine structure to go for some bilds to get the Styrocut EDM hotwire the Lathe moldmaker the Standard 4 axis ans so on
[12:42:40] <IchGuckLive> it doe not look like a CNC more like a framework
[12:43:03] <IchGuckLive> but it workas the way it shoudt
[12:43:18] <jdh> I'd like a benchtop waterjet.
[12:43:59] <IchGuckLive> you need a trainee for cleaning
[12:45:42] <jdh> as long as she works cheap, that's fine.
[12:45:48] <IchGuckLive> in the factory i worked we used AGIE wire EDM as they got on there evelution series the right strategie for our main cutes
[12:46:23] <IchGuckLive> the Evelution 4 series got a 3Time try and then go to the nexed alowed start point
[12:46:58] <IchGuckLive> so you can said inlays as to be first no outcut bevor inlay finish
[12:47:09] <IchGuckLive> overnight and weekend full Phone servise
[12:47:10] <tjtr33> yes 'give up' is an important strategy, on some machines you find monday morning, they keep trying all weekend !
[12:47:47] <IchGuckLive> mashine error on hold is phoned out via SMS
[12:48:58] <IchGuckLive> best is the mega wire reserva and also recycled place as it is shredded
[13:03:48] <frallzor> but dont tell mrsun
[13:14:56] <frallzor> possible to fix skewed hdpe?
[13:15:12] <frallzor> wasnt really up to par after machining
[13:56:08] <JT-Shop> G33.1 in 6061 went well on the BP... no more dragging out the tapping head for me
[13:56:54] <Connor> I like rigid tapping.
[13:57:00] <frallzor> bah vacuum hold down scrapped
[13:57:23] <Connor> frallzor: what happened ?
[13:57:39] <ssi> I do too
[13:57:49] <ssi> I had it working pretty well on the hnc
[13:57:57] <frallzor> noticed it was warped
[13:58:01] <frallzor> so no good
[13:58:16] <Connor> I need to look at the torque setting on the controller.. I think I can turn it al the way up since my motor is rated for more than the controller..
[13:58:26] <frallzor> HDPE not good for machining?
[13:58:29] <ssi> so I had an interesting idea I want to run by you guys
[13:58:45] <Connor> HDPE is great for machining..
[13:58:48] <ssi> for a CNC hot wire cutter, I think folks tend to spring-bias the wire to maintain tension
[13:59:03] <frallzor> Connor really? how to not make it warp then? =)
[13:59:04] <ssi> what about putting it on a drum on a low power servo, and closing the loop on current/torque to maintain tension that way?
[14:01:11] <Connor> Thickness probably..
[14:01:30] <frallzor> had to clear about 50% of the thickness though
[14:01:50] <Connor> might be able to clamp it to something stable and heat it up.
[14:01:59] <frallzor> tried that
[14:02:02] <frallzor> no go
[14:02:10] <frallzor> warped more =P
[14:02:40] <Connor> try making it from a thicker.. twice as thick.
[14:02:59] <frallzor> twice as thick is too thick =P
[14:03:05] <Connor> most of what I've seen it used for is for router mounts.
[14:03:16] <Connor> for the vacuum ? what warped the base ?
[14:04:04] <frallzor> pretty much the entire bit
[14:04:22] <Connor> would it not help if the base was thicker ?
[14:05:09] <frallzor> Ive done thicker things before in hdpe I recall now, warped too
[14:06:47] <Connor> What RP and IPM did you use ?
[14:07:07] <frallzor> 24krpm
[14:07:41] <frallzor> about 100ipm
[14:08:03] <Connor> Might check with plastic manufacture about what might be causing the problem.. or possible solutions.
[14:08:35] <frallzor> http://www.plasticsmachining.com/magazine/2001-09/PP-HDPE.html might check this
[14:10:32] <Connor> it's very heat sensitive.. maybe machine it with coolant ?
[14:11:29] <frallzor> machine not really made for fluids, but i guess i can spray water with some soap in it
[14:11:43] <Connor> what sort of machine?
[14:11:54] <JT-Shop> are you using a dead sharp cutting tool?
[14:12:02] <frallzor> pretty much
[14:12:18] <Connor> warping is a factor of heat.. your generating too much..
[14:13:03] <frallzor> maybe cut too much per pass
[14:13:06] <frallzor> 3mm
[14:13:06] <JT-Shop> taking a big chip load to pull the heat out?
[14:13:44] <Connor> what size cutter ?
[14:13:54] <frallzor> 8mm
[14:14:01] <JT-Shop> single flute?
[14:14:03] <frallzor> 2
[14:14:39] <JT-Shop> is it melting? I missed some of the conversation...
[14:14:45] <frallzor> not that i can tell
[14:14:49] <Connor> warping
[14:15:41] <JT-Shop> might be internal stress in the material... are you taking a lot off one side?
[14:15:53] <frallzor> nope
[14:15:57] <frallzor> pretty much a square
[14:16:14] <JT-Shop> I'm out of guesses then :)
[14:18:32] <frallzor> I guess its stress, just dont know how to avoid it best atm
[14:18:35] <PetefromTn> Why not make it out of aluminniiiuummumum...
[14:19:06] <`Nerobro_> Wait, you're saying metal has grain, and internal stresses?
[14:19:08] * `Nerobro_ cries
[14:19:10] <fbx90> then you will have heat problems :)
[14:19:37] <PetefromTn> `Nerobro_: Hell yeah metal has internal stresses...
[14:19:42] <JT-Shop> frallzor: this the vacuum fixture?
[14:19:43] <`Nerobro_> PetefromTn, i'm being silly
[14:19:44] <`Nerobro_> :-)
[14:19:49] <frallzor> JT-Shop si
[14:20:06] <PetefromTn> si o no?
[14:20:15] <JT-Shop> can you bolt it down to some alum as a base?
[14:20:28] <PetefromTn> Well I think I got this damn kitchen drawn right finally.
[14:20:28] <JT-Shop> then machine as an assembly
[14:20:41] <frallzor> what good is that?
[14:20:52] * JT-Shop goes to G33.1 some blind holes
[14:21:03] <ssi> heheh
[14:21:05] <JT-Shop> the alum base would hold it flat
[14:21:16] <ssi> PetefromTn: start cutting wood!
[14:21:34] <`Nerobro_> where a change in humidity can make your peice move inches...
[14:21:47] <frallzor> considering how it looks when bolted to some hardwood atm i dont think alu would help
[14:21:55] <frallzor> just warps at different spots
[14:22:24] <PetefromTn> ssi: Gotta get my deposit and I will be cutting A LOT of wood.
[14:22:41] <fbx90> the problem we have with cutting hdpe is that it makes tons of little threads
[14:22:46] <PetefromTn> Got a call from a potential customer today for some metal working but its a small job.
[14:23:04] <ssi> I need to call someone about some knee surgery :/
[14:23:12] <frallzor> fbx90 how much per pass?
[14:23:14] <PetefromTn> He's supposed to be sending over some drawings
[14:23:18] <frallzor> depth that is
[14:23:37] <PetefromTn> ssi: Whazzwrong man?
[14:23:43] <fbx90> well, i guess it's usually uhmwpe
[14:23:56] <ssi> PetefromTn: it got screwed up in my bike wreck back in 2007, but they never did anything about it
[14:24:01] <ssi> I reinjure it every now and again
[14:24:04] <ssi> sunday night was one of those
[14:24:17] <ssi> slipped on a hangar floor in some water, foot went sideways
[14:24:19] <fbx90> frallzor: not sure
[14:24:20] <ssi> knee doesn't like lateral motion
[14:24:31] <PetefromTn> OOOh ouch.
[14:24:41] <ssi> it's pretty swollen today
[14:24:59] <PetefromTn> So far my knees have not been a problem but my lower back is SOMETIMES a bit messed up.
[14:25:14] <PetefromTn> Probably from picking up full sheets of plywood all the time.
[14:25:35] <PetefromTn> Another reason I like metalworking better, pieces are usually smaller.
[14:25:52] <ssi> I used to be pretty good at slinging sheets of MDF
[14:26:00] <ssi> these days I struggle with it a bit
[14:30:21] <frallzor> guess ill try and make a new one a bit thicker then, not much needed so it might work =)
[14:34:29] <PetefromTn> MDF in 3/4 is pretty damn heavy...
[14:34:45] <PetefromTn> Now I just need to start cutlisting....
[14:35:00] <PetefromTn> Its gonna be a beautiful if simplish kitchen.
[14:35:05] <JT-Shop> frallzor: how thick is the last one you made?
[14:35:10] <frallzor> 20mm
[14:35:30] <frallzor> making this next one 40mm with the "tabs" 30mm
[14:35:44] <JT-Shop> that will help
[14:36:23] <frallzor> but would prefer a low profile one
[14:37:19] <PetefromTn> How much Z hieght you got on that Mechmate?
[14:37:37] <frallzor> not sure =)
[14:41:31] * JT-Shop wonders how Touchy deals with a M0... guess I'll find out.
[14:52:17] <JT-Shop> Whoot! I just got a call from a big factory in the next town that lost their integrator
[14:55:11] <skunkworks> ooooh
[14:55:22] <tjtr33> great!
[14:55:24] <JT-Shop> YEA!
[14:55:49] <JT-Shop> I've been wanting to break into that place for years
[14:57:09] <uw> there are still factories in the US?
[14:59:58] <JT-Shop> yep, the worlds most effecient small engine plant is in my back yard
[15:00:51] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Congrats man what will you be doing for them?
[15:04:48] <tjtr33> making it even more efficient:)
[15:06:42] <PetefromTn> uw: There are actually quite a few here in east Tennesse..
[15:07:50] <jdh> Pete: did you see that CHNC?
[15:09:33] <PetefromTn> jdh: Nope what CHNC?
[15:09:54] <frallzor> maybe one should go machine something
[15:09:55] <PetefromTn> I thought the CHNC was not the best for retrofit..
[15:10:09] <ssi> based on what? :P
[15:10:18] <JT-Shop> replacing relay logic with PLC's and other things
[15:10:21] <PetefromTn> Oh is that the kind you have?
[15:10:26] <ssi> similar
[15:10:44] <ssi> I'd convert another one in a heartbeat
[15:10:47] <PetefromTn> I remember talking with someone who said there was a model that is mostly hydraulic or something.
[15:10:55] <ssi> AHC is hydraulic
[15:11:00] <ssi> I wouldn't screw with that one
[15:11:07] <PetefromTn> Ooh okay.
[15:11:27] <PetefromTn> so where's this CHNC not that I have a thin dime to spend on something like that right now LOL
[15:11:44] <frallzor> less material per pass and thicker, that should do the trick
[15:11:48] <uw> PetefromTn, thats good to hear. I'm from newark nj and man what was manufacturing center is now abandoned buildings and warehouses
[15:11:53] <uw> sad really
[15:13:05] <PetefromTn> Damn right it is sad.. But I kinda feel like in some small ways we are getting back to making stuff here in the US. SLowly anyways. Certain companies are at least committed to keeping things stateside now.
[15:13:33] <jdh> <jdh> Pete: http://tricities.craigslist.org/tls/3816274243.html
[15:13:36] <PetefromTn> I have not been able to find work for my VMC so far tho except for very low paying small jobs that are one off at best.
[15:14:26] <ssi> looks like the smaller spindle, like mine
[15:14:35] <ssi> that's a reasonable price, and a good candidate for conversion
[15:14:51] <jdh> I like the sign on the control
[15:14:51] <PetefromTn> Oh yeah I actually did see that one. Looks decent anyways. I still need to find some paying work for this Cincinatti or I won't be getting CNC anything for awhile LOL\
[15:15:26] <PetefromTn> LOL yeah ain't that the truth tho....
[15:15:32] <PetefromTn> Damn things can be dangerous.
[15:16:56] <PetefromTn> Well kids wanna go swimming again. They're back in school soon but I gotta admit I am enjoying them being home now. Even if it means I don't get as much done during the day.
[15:17:21] <PetefromTn> Be back in a bit
[15:17:31] <jdh> both of mine will be going off to college in August
[15:17:43] <ssi> PetefromTn: how old are your kids?
[15:47:30] <JT-Shop> what kind of material will seal off the terminal end of a 12v power plug and be waterproof?
[15:47:46] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking of some pourable material
[15:47:50] <ssi> plastidip?
[15:47:54] <ssi> epoxy
[15:48:00] <ssi> how permanent (or impermanent) do you want it
[15:48:04] <JT-Shop> epoxy
[15:48:12] <JT-Shop> wrong window
[15:48:26] <JT-Shop> I was thinking some rubber like compound
[15:48:34] <ssi> for permanent, I'd mix up some west systems epoxy in a little cup and suspend the plug in it
[15:48:42] <ssi> be like a bug in amber :)
[15:49:07] <ssi> maybe the wax that cutting tools come encased in?
[15:49:32] <JT-Shop> hmm loctite has some stuff called hysol for potting electronics
[15:50:47] <JT-Shop> maybe a urethane
[15:59:40] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:04:56] <PetefromTn> Whew that pool may not be the biggest thing around but it sure as hell cools me off. I think I am getting a bit sunburnt so I put on some Bannana Boat goo....LOL
[16:05:08] <PetefromTn> ssi: My kids are ten and six years old.
[16:05:14] <ssi> gotcha
[16:11:09] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: why not just use 100% silicone caulk?
[16:11:40] <fbx90> silicone resin is great for potting
[16:11:56] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: does it need to be rigid, thematically conductive or need any other features?
[16:12:17] <fbx90> hysol is epoxy i think, got a bunch of that around here
[16:12:51] <CaptHindsight> Bondo, fiberglass resin (polyester resin) etc, is low cost and waterproof if you need rigid
[16:13:09] <frallzor> vacuum clamp rev2 all done
[16:13:28] <frallzor> no warping that's noticeable so far
[16:14:31] <CaptHindsight> epoxy is only a problem when used outdoors in direct sunlight
[16:15:45] <frallzor> I like this one more, feels sturdier!
[16:18:05] <CaptHindsight> frallzor: how about using more vacuum cups so that the boards don't flex?
[16:18:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.vaccon.com/Cups.aspx
[16:19:49] <frallzor> doing it mostly for a small job
[16:19:58] <frallzor> so more cups wont be needed =)
[16:20:20] <CaptHindsight> ah, never mind I must have misunderstood before
[16:20:32] <frallzor> ah its lovely now
[16:20:46] <frallzor> slightly deeper grove for the rubber seal
[16:25:18] <frallzor> even better now =)
[16:29:33] <PetefromTn> ;)
[16:30:28] <frallzor> works like a charm and unwarped
[16:34:24] <fbx90> any of you guys ever used dxf2gcode?
[16:35:51] <fbx90> even if not, axis 2.5 is giving me an error "nested comment found" when i try to import gcode made by dxf2gcode
[16:36:06] <frallzor> first real practical try tomorrow though =)
[16:36:30] <fbx90> hmm, i just deleted the header
[16:36:32] <fbx90> and now it's fine
[16:36:32] <fbx90> :)
[16:44:27] <CaptHindsight> thematically heh spell checker changed that one
[16:47:15] <Tom_itx> 106° F Partly Cloudy.
[16:47:56] <CaptHindsight> humid as well?
[17:14:37] <fbx90> why the hell is this machine vibrating like a mofo in x?
[17:14:48] <fbx90> it's a ton of vibration in the leadscrew
[17:15:52] <fbx90> can turn it manually and it's pretty smooth
[17:15:58] <fbx90> shouldn't be binding anywhere
[17:16:22] <frallzor> http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5283/3to7.jpg bit thicker now =)
[17:16:26] <frallzor> how odd
[17:16:39] <frallzor> what did I do to get fat font
[17:17:16] <JT-Shop> CaptHindsight: it just needs to waterproof the terminals
[17:17:47] <JT-Shop> and needs to be UV resistant
[17:22:55] <CaptHindsight> 100% silicone
[17:23:15] <JT-Shop> frallzor: looking good!
[17:23:53] <frallzor> slightly deeper groove = seal sits easily
[17:24:00] <JT-Shop> what fits into the fixture?
[17:24:40] <CaptHindsight> flexible caulk type or Dow Corning Sylgard 184 Silicone Encapsulant if you want rigid
[17:24:42] <frallzor> plastig with some wood on
[17:24:57] <frallzor> gonna make a bunch of custom coasters
[17:25:03] <JT-Shop> cool
[17:25:11] <frallzor> wanted a simple way to release and attach
[17:26:06] <CaptHindsight> just found a trunnion and rotary table foe the Matsura 710
[17:26:21] <CaptHindsight> can Mach even handle 4-5 axis?
[17:26:51] <syyl> jip
[17:27:23] <syyl> friend used to run a rf45 with 3+2 axis
[17:27:27] <CaptHindsight> says Mach is up to 6 axis so I can really compare it to Linuxcnc
[17:31:11] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, did you snag this one? http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=24466.0
[17:32:15] <tjtr33> good deal!
[17:32:56] <JT-Shop> anyone got one of those 12v power plugs (like a cig lighter) and measure the hole size needed for one?
[17:33:48] <fbx90> syyl: how did he generate his tool paths?
[17:34:10] <syyl> mastercam iirc
[17:34:13] <fbx90> ah
[17:34:30] <syyl> but most stuff was indexed only
[17:34:47] <syyl> and that can be done by hand programming
[17:35:11] <fbx90> just flipping parts and stuff?
[17:35:18] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, http://www.memoryprotectiondevices.com/datasheets/ZA1030-datasheet.pdf ( from digikey )
[17:35:21] <fbx90> machine one side, flip machine...?
[17:35:28] <fbx90> ,
[17:35:29] <syyl> jip
[17:35:38] <syyl> thats also what i use my 4th axis most :D
[17:35:52] <JT-Shop> tjtr33: I need the socket part
[17:36:02] <fbx90> i want to do some 4th axis threading-type stuff
[17:36:24] <fbx90> but a little more complicated
[17:36:26] <syyl> thats also not to hard to do by hand
[17:36:46] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, http://www.memoryprotectiondevices.com/datasheets/ZA2040-datasheet.pdf
[17:36:48] <fbx90> mastercam license is 10k... lol
[17:36:49] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEnz8vDtHxo
[17:36:50] <Tecan> (EEnz8vDtHxo) "Datron rotary axis" by "Stefan Gotteswinter" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:35
[17:36:58] <syyl> this i did on proEngineer
[17:37:00] <fbx90> i don't know why everyone keeps posting youtube videos
[17:37:09] <JT-Shop> thanks, how did you find that?
[17:37:11] <fbx90> does youtube work with ubuntu 8.04?
[17:37:18] <fbx90> :(
[17:37:38] <syyl> i think so Oo
[17:37:41] <syyl> or not?
[17:37:43] <fbx90> how do i make it work?
[17:37:46] <fbx90> not for me
[17:37:54] <fbx90> maybe i need to manually install another flash or something
[17:38:00] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, "12V plug" in digikey search bar
[17:38:02] <fbx90> or is it html5 now?
[17:38:29] <syyl> you can switch to html5
[17:38:30] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/html5?hl=de&gl=DE
[17:38:36] <JT-Shop> didn't think of digikey
[17:38:56] <JT-Shop> tjtr33: thanks
[17:39:37] <fbx90> cool, that works
[17:39:39] <fbx90> thanks syyl
[17:39:43] <syyl> :)
[17:40:19] <fbx90> why did you want the spiral paths?
[17:40:31] <syyl> playkid :D
[17:40:35] <fbx90> just to try out
[17:40:36] <fbx90> ah, yeah :)
[17:40:43] <syyl> and i expected better surface quality
[17:40:51] <syyl> as i was using an endmill with corner radius
[17:41:26] <fbx90> how many lines was that?
[17:41:47] <syyl> i think a few 10000
[17:41:56] <syyl> but dont realy know
[17:42:27] <syyl> its 2 years ago ;)
[17:42:32] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, this is much more direct info , specfic ID http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_lighter_receptacle
[17:44:59] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what are you doing with 16 stepgens?
[17:45:50] <JT-Shop> LOL, me? nothing a guy on the forum want's 9 and pcw_home suggested 16 like the PID component
[17:46:21] <JT-Shop> I can get up to 10 to work but my C-Fu is broken and I can't get past 10
[17:47:07] <Tom_itx> do you use that hal_manualtoolchange component?
[17:47:18] <Tom_itx> this new one is a nice modification to it
[17:47:48] <JT-Shop> I use hal_manualtoolchange on my BP knee mill
[17:48:14] <Tom_itx> it lets you also use a physical button along with the popup box
[17:48:26] <Tom_itx> saves me a trip to the kbd
[17:49:08] <JT-Shop> I have a touch screen on the BP and only a couple of buttons
[17:49:15] <Tom_itx> for those that use a pendant anyway
[17:49:32] <JT-Shop> I wish there was a touch screen hal_manualtoolchange
[17:49:57] <Tom_itx> can you map a button to the touch screen?
[17:50:18] <Tom_itx> if you can, you can map that to this
[17:50:32] <Tom_itx> i've never messed with touchy
[17:50:34] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: ~22mm for the cig adapters here
[17:52:44] <Tom_itx> [18:43:03] <dgarr> Tom_itx: a modified hal_manualtoolchange : http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/mod_hal_manualtoolchange
[17:53:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130709-3d-printing-of-liquid-metals-at-room-temperature.html
[17:56:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ql3pXn8-sHA
[17:56:13] <Tecan> (ql3pXn8-sHA) "3D Printing of Liquid Metals at Room Temperature" by "Michael Dickey" is "Tech" - Length: 0:02:45
[17:57:48] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: ^^
[18:00:13] <fbx90> JT-Shop: what kind of bp?
[18:02:10] <JT-Shop> series 1 with an Anilam 3 axis CNC conversion then with a LinuxCNC Mesa conversion
[18:06:50] <fbx90> how hard is it to mount motors to a manual bp?
[18:08:08] <Tom_itx> is 'gscreen' the up and coming replacement / addition to touchy?
[18:08:50] <frallzor> fbx90 easy
[18:09:01] <frallzor> atleast with a nice retrofit kit =)
[18:10:20] <fbx90> how much for the motor mounts? :)
[18:10:56] <frallzor> depends on where from I guess, BP is so common Ive seen many different kits
[18:11:16] <fbx90> i guess i just need the mounts
[18:11:21] <fbx90> not the whole shebang
[18:11:28] <fbx90> can just slap my own motors and electronics on
[18:11:52] <frallzor> http://www.microkinetics.com/conv_kits/ here is one
[18:12:35] <fbx90> wow, the quill kit is pricy
[18:13:04] <CaptHindsight> is it really worth it if you can find older VMC's that just need new controls?
[18:13:04] <frallzor> it is ballscrew though
[18:13:39] <fbx90> CaptHindsight: that's what i was wondering
[18:13:44] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, why wouldn't it be?
[18:13:47] <fbx90> with those prices
[18:13:56] <fbx90> can get an old cnc and just replace the driver boards
[18:14:02] <fbx90> they already have motors and mounts
[18:14:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-Vertical-Machining-Center-/200941463065?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item2ec90b6619
[18:14:47] <fbx90> CaptHindsight: one of those just sold on ebay for $3200 and the guy already converted it
[18:14:50] <fbx90> with vipers
[18:15:11] <fbx90> it's got servos and tool changers and auto way lubes...
[18:15:25] <CaptHindsight> sounds familiar
[18:15:35] <fbx90> i'm kicking myself for not grabbing it
[18:15:45] <fbx90> i just have nowhere to put an 8000 lb machine right now
[18:15:58] <fbx90> but i guess when you have an 8000lb machine, you find a place to put it...
[18:16:14] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/263762 like this one?
[18:16:16] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, has rotary table as well
[18:16:16] <frallzor> I wish I could trade in my mechmate for a small cnc for wood and a nice metall mill =P
[18:17:37] <fbx90> CaptHindsight: like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-MC710V-CNC-Mill-Retrofit-MACH-3-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-VMC-/271230844582?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item3f269e3ea6
[18:18:19] <CaptHindsight> fbx90: and delivery was only $200
[18:18:32] <fbx90> i'm pretty close to it
[18:18:37] <fbx90> i'd just drive over
[18:18:55] <fbx90> he said he could load on truck, but i have no idea how i'd load it off the truck...
[18:19:06] <CaptHindsight> we used a crane
[18:19:06] <fbx90> =]
[18:19:31] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: That liquid metal thing is just strange!
[18:19:32] <CaptHindsight> fbx90: are you in Wi?
[18:19:39] <fbx90> CaptHindsight: pretty close
[18:19:44] <fbx90> chicago area
[18:20:05] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: says it works with most Gallium alloys
[18:20:20] <CaptHindsight> fbx90: me to!
[18:20:26] <andypugh> Hmm, I htought it was probably Gallium.
[18:20:45] <fbx90> CaptHindsight: awesome, i'm at work downtown right now
[18:20:46] <fbx90> whe
[18:20:47] <fbx90> e
[18:21:04] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.201301400/abstract
[18:21:14] <fbx90> CaptHindsight: you actually have a matsuura conversion?
[18:21:29] <CaptHindsight> fbx90: we nabbed that one ^^
[18:21:36] <fbx90> nice
[18:21:47] <fbx90> can i come check it out? :)
[18:22:22] <CaptHindsight> going to do a side by side comparison of Mach to EMC on it
[18:23:02] <fbx90> was it on ebay?
[18:23:07] <fbx90> or where'd you see it listed?
[18:23:44] <CaptHindsight> he had it on a bunch of sites, or maybe those other sites just linked to it
[18:25:21] <fbx90> i'm going to keep looking around until another one pops up like the one i posted
[18:25:28] <fbx90> hopefully by then i'll have space for it
[18:25:38] <CaptHindsight> there was one in Mi
[18:25:42] <CaptHindsight> let me check
[18:26:21] <fbx90> i was serious about coming by to check yours out btw :)
[18:27:38] <CaptHindsight> it's at the lab
[18:28:07] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately NDA only :(
[18:28:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hurco-MD1-vertical-machining-center-/171066021430?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item27d4545636
[18:28:44] <CaptHindsight> Hurco MD1 out in woodstock
[18:29:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KITAMURA-CNC-Dual-Spindle-Mycenter-3W-Vertical-Machining-Center/141008889438?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D163%26meid%3D8960871370765236852%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D171066021430%26
[18:29:21] <CaptHindsight> $1500 KITAMURA CNC Dual Spindle Mycenter 3W Vertical Machining Center
[18:29:24] <fbx90> ah, we have the same shit going on here too unfortubately
[18:29:26] <fbx90> -b+n
[18:29:32] <fbx90> also in a lab right now
[18:30:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP2MwyAilt8&feature=youtu.be it still works!!
[18:30:06] <Tecan> (qP2MwyAilt8) "KITAMURA Dual Spindle Video" by "Steven Bankin" is "People" - Length: 0:00:52
[18:30:06] <fbx90> ooh, dual spindle
[18:30:27] <fbx90> oh yeah, i sw that one
[18:31:54] <fbx90> guy says "weird f'n tool changer..."
[18:31:55] <fbx90> heh
[18:32:09] <syyl> whats up with the two spindles?
[18:32:17] <fbx90> twice as much machining
[18:32:20] <fbx90> :)
[18:32:20] <syyl> is that to machine to similar pieces?
[18:32:25] <CaptHindsight> I usually see Mazak's for a few $k
[18:32:27] <syyl> hmm
[18:32:37] <syyl> doesnt seem to be a machine for usual work :D
[18:32:40] <CaptHindsight> none lately
[18:32:51] <fbx90> i haven't seen a deal like the one i posted yet though. already mostly converted and with a ton of tools for $3k
[18:32:51] <syyl> more something for high production runs...
[18:36:10] <fbx90> or high awesome runs
[18:36:53] <syyl> i would find it interesting if it were two different spindles :D
[18:37:04] <syyl> one for slow rpm with some grunt
[18:37:12] <syyl> and one highspeed spindle
[18:38:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.metal-pages.com/metalprices/gallium/ unfortunately a bit higher priced than aluminum or copper
[19:25:40] <spacka> seen fbx90
[19:26:20] <spacka> CaptHindsight: what does your lab do? (i'm fbx90 at home)
[19:47:10] <spacka> too bad this is a bit far away:
[19:47:13] <spacka> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121124595376&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:3160
[19:50:36] <spacka> wonder what this means
[19:50:41] <spacka> We believe there was some missing parts internally on the head, that may need to be replaced to work.
[19:50:44] <spacka> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AS-IS-RETROFIT-CANDIDATE-SHARNOA-3-AXIS-CNC-VERTICAL-MILLING-MACHINE-/140995079259?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item20d3f62c5b
[19:53:18] <spacka> and why is cnczone an "attack site" today? :P
[19:54:13] <uw> attack site?
[19:54:44] <spacka> click on a link to cnczone.com from google results and you get a page telling you that it is an attack site
[19:55:07] <spacka> then you click a bunch of stuff to bypass it and then firefox starts to tell you the same thing
[19:56:54] <uw> hmm yea is slow as shat
[19:57:34] <uw> i wonder if their vbulletin or if they use something on top of that got haxed
[19:58:42] <uw> Malicious software is hosted on 14 domain(s), including openxadvertising.org/, yrozezewu.pl/, alyqycero.pl/.
[19:58:48] <uw> yup, sounds liked haxed LOL
[20:03:24] <spacka> heh
[20:21:12] <spacka> stupid internet
[20:38:53] <PetefromTn> Evening folks..
[20:40:02] <spacka> ahoy
[20:41:46] <PetefromTn> ahoy there mateys LOL
[20:48:53] <spacka> can anyone identify the model of this hurco?
[20:48:56] <spacka> http://www.machinetools.com/en/for-sale/256513-hurco-402-610-001
[20:49:05] <spacka> seems like they gave the serial number as the model :p
[21:45:33] <CaptHindsight> spacka: I'm usually on the lookout for machines that size in need of TLC. I'll pass along anything of note
[21:46:20] <spacka> CaptHindsight: thanks, i'll be either spacka or fbx90 depending on whether i'm at work or home :p
[21:46:31] <spacka> i might merge at some point, who knows
[21:46:32] <spacka> :)
[22:26:33] <PetefromTn> I know if you want you can call Hurco and they will probably tell you anything you want to know about that machine if you give them the serial number...
[22:29:49] <spacka> PetefromTn: good idea
[22:29:53] <spacka> they have good customer service?
[22:32:49] <PetefromTn> Dunno man I hear good things but I have a Cincinatti Arrow 500 LOL
[22:33:25] <spacka> how much did you pay for it?
[22:33:49] <spacka> and how's it working out for you?
[22:38:43] <CaptHindsight> http://tinyurl.com/lx9ynwq MODEL BPC 516V MACHINING CENTER in CA for >$3500
[22:40:00] <spacka> 10 HP/10000 RPM SPINDLE.
[22:40:01] <spacka> nice
[22:40:11] <spacka> you got yours shipped for $200?
[22:40:24] <spacka> probably weighed half as much?
[22:40:25] <PetefromTn> Honestly I STOLE it for less than I care to admit to LOL It is working great so far and I am almost finished still need to get the toolchanger working tho. I run it when i have work for it now..
[22:40:33] <CaptHindsight> http://tinyurl.com/lh33ao2 Shizuoka CNC Knee Mill Milling Machine for Retrofit
[22:40:54] <spacka> saw that one earlier
[22:41:02] <spacka> wonder what's wrong with it
[22:41:25] <spacka> mechanical or something i'd rip out anyway...
[22:41:56] <PetefromTn> Spacka...where you at to dangle the participle..?
[22:42:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-Vertical-Milling-Machine-Series-II-4HP-/310700613366?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4857331ef6
[22:42:20] <CaptHindsight> Elk Grove Village,
[22:42:30] <CaptHindsight> Bridgeport Vertical Milling Machine (Series II - 4HP)
[22:42:33] <PetefromTn> Illinoisistan?
[22:43:04] <CaptHindsight> somebody here was looking for BP-II's
[22:43:44] <spacka> PetefromTn: yarr
[22:43:54] <spacka> people's republic of
[22:44:01] <PetefromTn> LOL
[22:44:28] <qrp> toolchanger is broken
[22:44:29] <PetefromTn> If you have never been up close to a series II bridgeport that is a HUGE knee mill man...
[22:44:35] <qrp> something missing
[22:45:35] <qrp> hizuoka CNC Knee Mill Milling Machine
[22:46:00] <spacka> what's missing
[22:46:40] <PetefromTn> the S...
[22:46:49] <Daniel> hello?
[22:46:59] <PetefromTn> HELLO!
[22:47:02] <spacka> heh
[22:47:05] <spacka> well, bed time here
[22:47:08] <spacka> 'night
[22:47:14] <PetefromTn> nite..
[22:47:37] <Guest88949> can anybody help me with finding the timings for my driver board, hobbycnc ez driver?
[22:48:12] <CaptHindsight> spacka: we also had a 35 ton crane to unload, took about 30 seconds
[22:48:13] <qrp> you see the tool changer, i don't think it is a complete one, in the pic
[22:48:40] <Guest88949> i am using the hobbycnc pro presets which seem to work for me. How can you test to make sure they all work?
[22:49:14] <qrp> is it a HEIDENHAIN cnc system
[22:49:23] <qrp> interesting!
[22:49:43] <Guest88949> no, not sure what a heidenhain system is
[22:49:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mighty-USA-Inc-COMET-VMC-500-P-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-Mitsubishi-Control-/130941222606?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7cb47ece
[22:51:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mori-Seiki-MV-JR-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-Fanuc-Control-CT40/151065692394?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D163%26meid%3D8965101389004647409%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D200941405956%26
[22:51:59] <CaptHindsight> US $1,000.00
[22:52:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lagunmatic-Vertical-Machining-Center-VMC-3516-Lagun-CNC-Mill/330953635388?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D163%26meid%3D8965105834560903312%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D151065692394%26
[22:53:53] <qrp> seems very good ,I love the Mori Seiki machine
[22:54:19] <CaptHindsight> http://tinyurl.com/kkebu2f low price but difficult to move
[23:00:10] <qrp> too old
[23:02:02] <CaptHindsight> http://southbend.craigslist.org/tls/3915464153.html "Recently updated motor controls. Ready to work. " :)