#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-07-07

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[00:13:45] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I'm going to do a comparison between Mach3 and EMC on the same machine
[00:14:16] <CaptHindsight> any input would be great for an article
[00:29:04] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, i really dont know anything about Mach, only what i hear on this channel, like something about mach3 is new/mach3 is crap ( this is not an unbiased channel ;)
[00:31:11] <tjtr33> RyanS_, the mitutoyo uni-mike had replaceable anvils, so could do other forms of measurement ( like, no anvil = deep mike )
[00:34:21] <tjtr33> there were snap on ends for the thimble end ( balls, points ) as well as different anvils
[00:53:49] <CaptHindsight> the mill already runs Mach, I'll just finish the ATC and tweak things then change over to EMC
[00:56:05] <CaptHindsight> one big difference seems to how Mach control servos and the lack rigid tapping
[00:57:38] <CaptHindsight> Mach3 with servos is not closed loop
[00:57:54] <CaptHindsight> The feedback from the encoders reports to the servo driver, which will error out if a predetermined threshold is exceeded. It will not correct errors.
[01:57:05] <t12> any reason to actually wire up disable pins to geckodrives with linuxcnc?
[02:00:49] <cmorley> CaptHindsight: Would be interesting to compare machining time/smoothness of very short segment objects
[02:14:40] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:43:06] <archivist> Aero-Tec3, now seen the pictures, ordinary 3 or 4 jaw will put is out of round too, needs better holding
[02:52:30] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:58:48] <Tecan> indeed
[03:09:50] <Nickparker> hi all, has anybody got experience with shizuoka cnc mills from the 80s, bandit controllers, or 214 072 01 controllers?
[03:11:26] <Nickparker> er, the 214 072 01 are stepper drivers that go with the bandit controllers, not different controllers.
[03:14:55] <archivist> dud you see http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/
[03:15:01] <archivist> did
[03:15:23] <Nickparker> no i did not. that is similar to my driver.
[03:15:29] <Nickparker> almost certainly the same pins.
[03:16:22] <Nickparker> in fact that's the exact model i'm working on
[03:16:44] <Nickparker> and those are schematics. wow, thanks man
[03:17:53] <archivist> it was easy to find as there is a thread on the mailing list at the moment on a bigger one available on ebay
[03:18:48] <Nickparker> well i should be able to figure out step/dir from this, thanks.
[03:20:00] <t12> is there no pncconf support for 5i25s?
[03:22:00] <Tecan> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tLPt--bfpAY/UJTACMkGI4I/AAAAAAAAD9w/9Ozsg4Ds8Mc/s640/Sundog_Mock%2BSun_Parhelia.jpg
[03:29:58] <t12> or i could read the forums
[03:34:31] <archivist> pncconf is new so depends which version what support there is
[03:35:25] <t12> discovered firmware download thread
[03:59:54] <Nickparker> hmm.. anybody have experience with 4 phase steppers? I've been assuming that they work by "pulling" with the phases, but the circuit diagram archivist helped me find seems to show that they work by "pushing. that is, the shared COM pins are high and the path to ground on the pole pins is controlled.
[04:01:17] <archivist> you are over thinking the internals of a stepper, the wiring often means unipolar or bipolar
[04:03:16] <Nickparker> is there such a thing as a bipolar motor with more than 2 phases?
[04:03:25] <archivist> a 5 wire stepper is unipolar, a 6 wire can be unipolar or bipolar, 8 wire can be either with the addition of coils in parallel or series
[04:03:44] <Nickparker> it hadn't occured to me before that you could do bipolar in more phases
[04:04:16] <Nickparker> they're 6 wire.
[04:04:34] <Nickparker> the link you provided has a fuzzy circuit diagram:
[04:04:34] <Nickparker> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/Driver%20Schematic1.jpg
[04:04:56] <Nickparker> if it makes more sense to you than me. my dad is an EE major so i can have him check it out in a day or two and probably get me sorted.
[04:05:18] <Nickparker> he was pretty good at recognizing part numbers on the driver because it's as old as his EE education haha
[04:06:25] <archivist> ok two center taps (com) on your motors and it is wired unipolar
[04:07:46] <Nickparker> yeah there are 2 COMs and 4 poles. so unipolar then.
[04:08:00] <Nickparker> looking at this circuit just made me realize, stepper drivers use pwm don't they?
[04:08:22] <Nickparker> i don't know why but i was assuming that steppers actually generated varying voltage for different partial step positions
[04:08:30] <Nickparker> but that would be awfully hard and senseless
[04:08:31] <archivist> to limit the current pwm is used
[04:08:45] <Nickparker> yep, seems obvious now.
[04:09:30] <archivist> some drivers do supply inbetween steps with partial current, can reduce resonance
[04:09:45] <Nickparker> i doubt these do though, what with being 1979 tech.
[04:09:54] <archivist> those dont
[04:09:58] <Nickparker> well thanks man, you've been an absolutely huge help
[04:10:18] <archivist> I have to go out to play http://www.middleton-leawood.org.uk/leawood/
[04:10:20] <Nickparker> i'm off to bed for now, but i'll be sure to check back here in a few weeks and tell you all how my conversion goes
[04:11:01] <Tecan> who in here is doing repstrap ?
[04:11:18] <Nickparker> Tecan: try hitting up #reprap
[04:11:58] <Tecan> no they hang in here i just forgot who it was
[04:14:07] <t12> hm
[04:14:17] <t12> hm2/hm2_5i25.0: config.num_encoders=5, but only 2 are available, not loading driver
[04:14:33] <t12> incorrect firmware?
[04:22:36] <t12> er there got it
[08:15:12] <JT-Shop> see you guys after the Vets ride
[08:15:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Go ridr your tricycle ;)
[08:22:31] <Tom_itx> kids stay the same, the pop guns and trikes just get bigger
[08:24:04] <Jymmm> Yes, yes they do... http://v6.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=2zhk1h0
[08:25:03] <Jymmm> That really is JT-Shop's "pop gun" btw
[08:33:14] <Tom_itx> must be his buddies mortar sitting nearby
[11:35:14] <Aero-Tec3> archivist, your right that is why I did not go that way at first, then forgot about it till I looked at it again yesterday
[11:38:23] <Aero-Tec3> now I have a 6 jaw and 3 jaw with 2 part jaws, so I can soft jaw it, thing is I have the chucks but not mounted. so they are not usable yet
[11:42:45] <Loetmichel> soo, 12" lcd enclosure ist getting more and more complete. Even i had soldered my finger instead of the brass... (hurts only a little now)... now i have to make solder tha last two corners, get a 2mm thick front glass of Lexan in, put the electronics in and make a back cover for it... and a paint job would be good ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14316
[11:45:41] <Aero-Tec3> if you had a big enough reprarp you could have printed that
[11:46:25] <Aero-Tec3> sorry for the call out and not staying around last night
[11:46:38] <Aero-Tec3> got called away
[11:47:10] <Loetmichel> Aero-Tec3: out of brass? show me how! ;-)
[11:47:19] <Aero-Tec3> so still fighting with my chattering problem
[11:47:36] <Aero-Tec3> not out of brass, out of plastic
[11:47:44] <Loetmichel> so its useless
[11:48:01] <Loetmichel> for a monitor sitting IN a CNC mill
[11:48:04] <Aero-Tec3> but there are some printers that could do brass
[11:48:13] <Loetmichel> not sheet metal
[11:48:29] <Loetmichel> printing of sheet parts is ineffective
[11:48:50] <Loetmichel> also: i mill it because i have a small mill
[11:49:12] <Loetmichel> and this is #LinuxCNC, not #reprap ;)
[11:49:34] <Aero-Tec3> I would think that soldered brass and plastic would be close to the same
[11:50:02] <Aero-Tec3> there are lots of plastic parts on CNC units
[11:50:13] <Loetmichel> INSIDE
[11:50:23] <Aero-Tec3> ?
[11:50:23] <Loetmichel> replaces the 15" beside my mill
[11:50:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[11:50:43] <Aero-Tec3> inside? what on earth are you doing?
[11:51:02] <Loetmichel> will be mounted on the right side on the brown back plate
[11:52:54] <Aero-Tec3> mounted how?
[11:53:11] <Aero-Tec3> I would hope with a movable mount
[11:54:18] <Aero-Tec3> if mounted flat on that back part would it not be sort of out of reach and not so nice?
[11:57:24] <Aero-Tec3> nice looking unit
[11:57:39] <Aero-Tec3> what sorts of things do you make with it?
[12:02:12] <sharpen047> hey does anyone here use a 3d printer? im trying to add 3d printing to my cnc but not sure what i need. I was looking at extruders from ebay made in china but not sure what else i would need.
[12:07:38] <Heinz_60> Hi @ll
[12:11:05] <Aero-Tec3> I was also looking at using emc to control a reprap 3D printer
[12:12:19] <sharpen047> Aero-Tec3: did you buy or assemble one? i dont have one but am looking to get one up and running. just not sure what i need to make one.
[12:16:00] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:17:51] <Loetmichel> Aero-Tec3: i make all parts i need to ;-)
[12:18:15] <Loetmichel> and for the 3dprinter: all the electronics parts are hre
[12:18:30] <Loetmichel> just have to desing a frame and some hardware
[12:19:23] <Heinz_60> Hi ichgucklive
[12:20:53] <IchGuckLive> servus
[12:25:09] <sharpen047> Loetmichel: do you own a 3d printer?
[12:26:10] <Loetmichel> sharpen047: like i said above: i have all the electronics parts over here
[12:26:36] <Loetmichel> i.E a ramps , 5 steppers, some t2,5 timing belt, a psu and so on.
[12:26:54] <Loetmichel> just missing the frame and the heatbed and the hotend
[12:27:19] <Loetmichel> but htat is just a bit of construction and milling... IF i find some time before eternity ;-)
[12:27:32] <sharpen047> Loetmichel: mind helping me out? i have a couple 3 axis cncs and would like to convert one or both to a 3d printer. i just cant find a complete list of what i need. they are either a complete 'kit' they sell for 1500 or JUST an extruder or JUST a controller etc.
[12:28:00] <Loetmichel> sharpen047: that will wore more or less quirky
[12:28:00] <sharpen047> Loetmichel: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181170579931?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[12:28:01] <Heinz_60> Conrad.de has a 3d printer bausatz for 699
[12:28:09] <Loetmichel> because a 3dprinter needs LOTS of speed
[12:28:33] <Loetmichel> Heinz_60; thats directly for the trash bin
[12:28:36] <sharpen047> i made my cncs and they are very fast :) i spent months perfecting them
[12:29:14] <Loetmichel> sharpen047: above 200mm/sec in x and y?
[12:29:19] <sharpen047> ive got a frame and controler for a 3 axis cnc mill. i have a spare cnc so i may as well convert it. i made it originally for circuit boards
[12:29:32] <sharpen047> let me see, im used to ipm
[12:30:21] <Loetmichel> 470 IPM
[12:30:35] <sharpen047> i can get there with a different leadscrew
[12:30:44] <sharpen047> i was at 133 ipm with a 3/8 12
[12:30:50] <sharpen047> so ill just go belt drive
[12:31:12] <sharpen047> but thats ok, its an easy swap
[12:31:14] <Loetmichel> sharpen047: the printhead looks useable
[12:31:25] <Loetmichel> but i dont like the 1,75mm filament
[12:31:33] <sharpen047> ok so i have a head.. what else do i need? is there a special controller?
[12:31:38] <Loetmichel> there are more sources for 3mm filament
[12:31:41] <sharpen047> why is that?
[12:31:44] <sharpen047> ah
[12:31:57] <sharpen047> and how about a hotbed? what is that for?
[12:32:06] <Loetmichel> its needed for ABS
[12:32:15] <Loetmichel> for PLA you can get away without it
[12:32:18] <sharpen047> abs is more durable right?
[12:32:37] <sharpen047> i know my tail lights are made of ABS
[12:32:38] <Loetmichel> it prevents the warping and thereof loosening of the printed part when cooling down
[12:32:57] <Loetmichel> because abs shrinks more for same delta temp it will warp more
[12:33:01] <sharpen047> more info from you than 3 hours of googling... haha
[12:33:24] <Loetmichel> and that from a guy who not even has a printer ready now ;-)
[12:33:27] <sharpen047> ok hotbed, 200mm/sec and that 3mm extruder.
[12:33:43] <Loetmichel> and a tip: try PLA for starters
[12:33:46] <Loetmichel> its easier
[12:33:58] <sharpen047> ok, what is ramps? i know its for the arduino but what does it do
[12:34:08] <Loetmichel> if you have it runnung you cna switch to abs or something completly different
[12:34:35] <Loetmichel> i would suggest to get yourself a ramps board, minus the Stepper drivers
[12:34:52] <Loetmichel> because you will need the heat controllers and the gcode interpreter
[12:35:00] <sharpen047> ok what controls the speed/feed of the extruder? is there a special board for that?
[12:35:16] <sharpen047> i downloaded replicator g
[12:35:17] <Loetmichel> and then drive a nortmal TB6560 or whatever your steppers are driven now with it
[12:35:35] <sharpen047> ok i do have a 3 axis tb6560 board.
[12:38:03] <sharpen047> because my tb6560 doesnt have an input for the thermister
[12:38:48] <ReadError_> makthought i was in reprap for a minute...
[12:40:24] <syyl_ws> irritated? :D
[12:42:43] <Loetmichel> sharpen047: 3 axis isnt enoug
[12:42:45] <Loetmichel> h
[12:42:50] <Loetmichel> you need at least four
[12:43:01] <sharpen047> why is that? i thought most of them were?
[12:43:01] <Loetmichel> (the extrider head has a stepper also)
[12:43:07] <Loetmichel> extruder
[12:43:11] <sharpen047> oh oh the driver
[12:43:26] <sharpen047> ill probably use another G540
[12:43:47] <Loetmichel> ramps is the controller board, usually with 5 stepper drivers already
[12:43:54] <sharpen047> ill sell this cnc and make another just for 3d printing and laser cutting
[12:44:04] <sharpen047> 5 for 2 colors/types of plastic?
[12:44:26] <Loetmichel> http://reprap.org/wiki/RAMPS_1.4#Summary
[12:44:34] <Loetmichel> right
[12:44:54] <sharpen047> ok so that with the polol things replace the tb6560
[12:44:59] <Loetmichel> right
[12:45:05] <sharpen047> polol isnt correct i know but fun to say haha
[12:45:05] <Loetmichel> pololu
[12:45:19] <sharpen047> reminds me of the trololol song
[12:45:26] <ReadError_> wow
[12:45:34] <ReadError_> g540 on a 3d printer?
[12:45:37] <ReadError_> seems like a waste...
[12:45:41] <Loetmichel> just small 1,5A stepper drivers with a plug pcb underneath
[12:46:14] <sharpen047> pololu it is then
[12:46:18] <sharpen047> very cheap too
[12:46:29] <Loetmichel> i dont really like them, to less heatsink and to less power for my taste
[12:46:47] <Loetmichel> but they work for a standard reprap
[12:47:07] <Loetmichel> because the steppers are just nema17
[12:47:15] <sharpen047> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ramps-1-4-ULTIMATE-KIT-incl-SD-Ramps-and-wiring-Mendel-RepRap-/150870740833?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item232098cf61
[12:47:15] <Aero-Tec3> will make my own frame
[12:47:35] <Aero-Tec3> I have welders and such
[12:47:47] <Aero-Tec3> will be very solid
[12:47:58] <Loetmichel> sharpen047: yes
[12:48:39] <Loetmichel> get a 12V 20A SMPS for that and some THermistors for heatbed and HotEnd (extruder) and you are good to go
[12:48:44] <sharpen047> that and 5 steppers should work right? any recommendation on motors? what tq they should have? i currently have nema 23 285 oz in motors
[12:50:25] <sharpen047> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-RepRap-3D-Printer-PCB-Heatbed-MK2A-Heat-Bed-Hot-Plate-For-Prusa-Mendel-/281117876336?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4173ee6070 4"X4"
[12:53:33] <sharpen047> so you dont think 1.75 is the right way to go for filament? i cant find many 3mm kits
[12:58:58] <Loetmichel> sharpen047: depends
[12:59:16] <Loetmichel> over here in germany tha 1.75mm filamet is harder to get than the 3mm one
[12:59:26] <Loetmichel> but i dinbt know hows that overseas
[12:59:29] <Loetmichel> dont
[13:00:55] <Loetmichel> *swaeating now heavily*... even with a 1/2 HP pump its not so easy to replace the leaky water matress on my wifes bed half. you simply cant get all of the half ton of water out of the old one...
[13:01:00] <sharpen047> opposite here it seems, i can get both but much more 1.75
[13:01:01] <Loetmichel> sweating
[13:01:23] <sharpen047> http://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Replicator-Solidoodle-Printrbot-MakerGear/dp/B00AA5AIN4/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1373219034&sr=1-1&keywords=filament
[13:02:53] <Loetmichel> like i said: try to start with pla, not abs
[13:03:42] <sharpen047> Loetmichel: got it, and thanks a TON for your help
[13:03:49] <Loetmichel> its way more easy to fine tune that
[13:04:33] <sharpen047> Loetmichel: also why do they need such high speeds? so they continuously feed plastic through?
[13:05:25] <Loetmichel> because you will wait forever on the G0 moves if they dont
[13:05:49] <Loetmichel> remember: they move only abut 0.1 or 0.2mm up each layer
[13:06:16] <Loetmichel> so you have the g0 moves multiplied with the layer count
[13:06:24] <Loetmichel> and that takes time...
[13:07:14] <CaptHindsight> a laptop that might possibly be able to run Linuxcnc http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3265
[13:26:08] <sharpen047> Loetmichel: oh youre in the reprap channel too
[13:27:03] <Loetmichel> yes
[15:10:00] <Aero-Tec3> Loetmichel, try a wet vac for sucking up the water
[15:10:23] <Aero-Tec3> also is it hard to fine tune a reprap unit?
[15:11:23] <Aero-Tec3> was wanting to make one and would like some info on setting one up and how hard it may or may not be to get it working well
[15:11:25] <Loetmichel> i dont know, i have none working here ;-)
[15:11:44] <Loetmichel> just the parts
[15:11:57] <Aero-Tec3> is it hard to get good clean prints from one, or is it even possible
[15:12:06] <Loetmichel> but i have HARD it is not as easy with ABS as it is with PLA
[15:12:30] <Aero-Tec3> how close are you to having a working one?
[15:12:39] <Loetmichel> because PLA isnt so critical with temperature and doesent get loose from the printbed so easily
[15:12:43] <Aero-Tec3> and will you be using EMC to run it?
[15:12:45] <Loetmichel> HEARD
[15:13:06] <Loetmichel> no, will use the AVR on the ardunio that powers the ramps
[15:13:15] <Loetmichel> that has its own Gcode interpreter
[15:13:42] <Aero-Tec3> would like to hear how it goes
[15:14:01] <Aero-Tec3> how easy or hard it is to get tuned up just right
[15:15:36] <Aero-Tec3> I see some that have very good looking parts/ prints with little to no strings in the prints and some that look like hell
[15:16:46] <Loetmichel> Aero-Tec3: i suppose it is like always: anything you're good at is easy, anything you never did seems hard ;-)
[15:17:07] <Aero-Tec3> big ball of stings and/ or very ugly prints with course finish and holes where the print is missing
[15:17:13] <Loetmichel> like the story with PetefromTn and hist engraving bits
[15:17:28] <Loetmichel> I find it very easy to "handgrind" one... he not ;-)
[15:17:34] <Aero-Tec3> did not hear that story
[15:17:48] <Aero-Tec3> ok
[15:17:51] <Loetmichel> he asked how to make a engraving bit
[15:18:29] <Loetmichel> i showd him my way of doing it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iaFb6WInuw
[15:18:30] <Tecan> (4iaFb6WInuw) "Stichelschleifen" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:04:36
[15:18:36] <Aero-Tec3> but with the printer the skill of the guy should not play a role, just his ability to follow directions
[15:19:01] <Loetmichel> and he found that surprisingly difficult to duplicate. ;-)
[15:19:12] <PetefromTn> Loetmichel: Oh way to go man...rub it in...RUB IT IN!!
[15:19:25] <Loetmichel> sorry, pete
[15:19:56] <Loetmichel> i said: i had to make 20 or so before the first one had cut ;-)
[15:20:22] <PetefromTn> actually the one I made would probably work but I want to wait to order some to test the cutter setup/
[15:20:31] <Loetmichel> bur as i have no short supply ot brokeln Tungsten carbide 1/8" mill bits...
[15:20:48] <Loetmichel> s/ bur/but
[15:20:58] <Loetmichel> -t+f
[15:21:26] <Loetmichel> ... the 20 "for the trash" werent a problem
[15:23:17] <PetefromTn> Oh so yours are 1/8" then. Maybe that is the difference, mine is 1/4 inch but that is not an excuse really LOL
[15:23:47] <Aero-Tec3> why not turn it around and used the back end, make it double ended
[15:24:05] <Aero-Tec3> then it would have only been 10 in the trash
[15:25:23] <Aero-Tec3> would be cool to make a CNC cutter sharpener
[15:25:33] <Aero-Tec3> one that can do it all
[15:25:43] <Aero-Tec3> should not be hard to do
[15:26:11] <Aero-Tec3> I have been in and out for a bit
[15:26:31] <Aero-Tec3> have some time, or should have anyways
[15:26:31] <PetefromTn> Can't really use a double sided due to the router collet not being that deep.
[15:26:46] <Aero-Tec3> back to lathe bit chatter
[15:26:49] <Loetmichel> Aero-Tec3: IS hard
[15:27:10] <Loetmichel> a deckel cutter sharpener has about 9 degrees of freedom
[15:27:20] <Loetmichel> thats a lot of steppers
[15:27:27] <Aero-Tec3> a cnc sharpener is hard, why would it be?
[15:28:00] <Aero-Tec3> not all need to be free
[15:28:02] <Loetmichel> because you need so much joints
[15:28:18] <Loetmichel> to sharpen ANYTHING
[15:28:32] <Aero-Tec3> some could be hard set, just make the ones that need to be free free
[15:28:47] <Loetmichel> especially for the "normal" drill/mill bits with 2 or more spiral flutes
[15:28:54] <Aero-Tec3> set the angles and hit sharpen
[15:29:21] <Aero-Tec3> 4, 5 tops would need to be free
[15:29:28] <Aero-Tec3> I would think anyway
[15:30:43] <Aero-Tec3> do a setup for a cutter, hard set the angles needed and let x,y,z and a do the work
[15:32:26] <Aero-Tec3> maybe need a B axis as well, but most other angels should be able to be done with compound moves, one may even be able to do it all with just 5 axis
[15:33:20] <Aero-Tec3> any other angles and be done with compound axis moves
[15:34:18] <Aero-Tec3> I have not done a machine blue prints/ 3D models yet but the theory should be sound
[15:37:13] <Aero-Tec3> with a manual sharpener, accurate compound moves are not doable, so each possible move needs its own axis to set the angles and get then right
[15:38:06] <Aero-Tec3> with lathe chatter, is the best way to kill it just to feed harder?
[15:38:16] <Aero-Tec3> like I read some where
[15:39:06] <Aero-Tec3> for cut off tools, feed like you have a pair, a big pair
[15:39:58] <Aero-Tec3> not sure if a HSS tool can hold up to that
[15:41:33] <Aero-Tec3> looking into making my own tool holder for int grooving
[15:41:47] <abetusk> does anyone have experience with the uv curable solder mask paint?
[16:06:48] <Aero-Tec3> some
[16:07:00] <Aero-Tec3> what info are you looking for?
[16:08:31] <Aero-Tec3> BTW does anyone have any idea what a good angle would be to mount a carbide or HSS where the top/flat does not need to be ground?
[16:09:06] <Aero-Tec3> cutting 6061
[16:09:26] <Aero-Tec3> right now I have it with zero rank
[16:10:05] <Aero-Tec3> totally flat, it is how the tool holder was/is
[16:10:19] <syyl_> go for positive
[16:10:24] <syyl_> 7 to 12deg
[16:10:46] <Aero-Tec3> I have ground a relief angle
[16:12:16] <Aero-Tec3> so positive would be up, towards the cut
[16:12:46] <Aero-Tec3> giving a sharper point to the cutter
[16:12:47] <syyl_> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/CNCCookbook/InsertRakes.jpg
[16:13:10] <Aero-Tec3> does it matter is it is carbide or HSS?
[16:14:40] <syyl_> hss can hold a much narrower tip
[16:14:45] <syyl_> carbide is a bit more britle
[16:14:59] <syyl_> but can take a lot more surface speed
[16:15:25] <andypugh> Darn it! I dropped the pointer from my concentric indicator into the swarf-bin. Which is full.
[16:15:43] <syyl_> time to empty it :)
[16:16:26] <andypugh> It is a full size dustbin. And the pointer managed to fall all the way to be bottom. I managed to only make my hands slightly leaky finding and rescuing it....
[16:16:56] <syyl_> such things always drop to the bottom
[16:17:03] <syyl_> murphy stikes will full force
[16:17:19] <shanker> hello all
[16:17:25] <andypugh> Emptying it involves borrowing a (large) car then sneaking it into the scrap-metal skip at the tip when the attendants backs are turned...
[16:17:47] <syyl_> i made a few chips today, too
[16:17:49] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/Bettschlittenanschlag/IMG_2067.JPG
[16:18:04] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/Bettschlittenanschlag/IMG_2070.JPG
[16:18:07] <shanker> so I have a cnc that is about 75% done....I was wondering about what software to use
[16:18:13] <syyl_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/Bettschlittenanschlag/IMG_2072.JPG
[16:18:24] <syyl_> overengineered?
[16:18:26] <syyl_> sure!
[16:19:01] <andypugh> shanker: You didn't come to the right place for impartial advice :-)
[16:19:25] <shanker> humm
[16:19:32] <pcw_home> those are not chips, thats fur :-)
[16:19:42] <shanker> well any advice is good even if it is partial
[16:19:59] <syyl_> but lot of fur ;)
[16:20:17] <shanker> i was using mach3 and cam-bam
[16:20:27] <shanker> but i just couldnt get it to work for the life of me
[16:20:54] <shanker> and i take it linuxcnc is the distro of linux for cnc machines right ?
[16:20:58] <andypugh> shanker: Well, cam-bam seems to be as good as anything in its class, but we tend to the opinion that LinuxCNC is better than Mach.
[16:21:11] <shanker> I have not tried it
[16:21:33] <shanker> I will give it a try
[16:21:41] <andypugh> LinuxCNC is a distro _and_ a complete machine controler.
[16:21:51] <shanker> cool
[16:22:23] <shanker> thank you andypugh
[16:22:34] <andypugh> It is only a distro because we need to use realtime kernel extensions, and at that point it has been easier to distribute a full live-CD.
[16:22:59] <shanker> yeah I dig the idea of a computer being the whole machine
[16:23:07] <andypugh> You can run the LiveCD on any PC, and try-out the software without making any permanent changes to the hard-drive.
[16:23:15] <shanker> cool
[16:23:37] <shanker> any ideas on the hardware specks for such a system ?
[16:23:46] <shanker> as far as cpu and ram
[16:24:13] <andypugh> Not a lot. The most popular setup are the Mini-ITX Intel Atom boards.
[16:24:21] <shanker> really cool
[16:24:36] <shanker> got one of them just chilling
[16:24:37] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/download
[16:25:38] <shanker> yeah i just got my motors running on my 3d printer and want to spend some time working on the cnc
[16:25:41] <shanker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akb_-vxlyDE
[16:25:42] <Tecan> (Akb_-vxlyDE) "IMG 0213" by "Gareth Erwin" is "People" - Length: 0:00:32
[16:25:54] <shanker> yep
[16:25:56] <shanker> that is me
[16:25:59] <shanker> =)
[16:26:16] <andypugh> For interfacing to the hardware you can use the parallel port, though that is rather limiting. There is a lot of supported hardware, but bear in mind that nothing USB works with LinuxCNC for motion control (webcams, joypads etc, no problem). http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
[16:26:44] <shanker> yeah i have a controller from china that i got about a year ago
[16:26:53] <shanker> and it is parallel port
[16:27:02] <andypugh> LinuxCNC also runs (experimentally) on the BeagleBone and (even more experimentally) Raspberry Pi.
[16:27:13] <shanker> wow the pi
[16:27:15] <shanker> cool
[16:27:16] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:27:57] <shanker> yeah it is a HY-cnc controller from china
[16:28:27] <shanker> i just couldnt get the motors to work quite right
[16:29:23] <andypugh> The chinese boards seem to get sent out with documentation for a different device quite often.
[16:57:36] <Tom_garage> logger[mah]
[16:57:36] <logger[mah]> Tom_garage: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-07-07.html
[16:59:40] <Tom_itx> i'm trying to use the hal_manualtoolchange component and address iocontrol.0.tool-changed bit with an external button
[16:59:46] <Tom_itx> can i not do that?
[16:59:59] <Tom_itx> i tried using an or2 component and that didn't work either
[17:00:27] <Tom_itx> i want to keep the manual tool change dialog in axis but still be able to have an external tool change button on my pendant
[17:01:03] <andypugh> What do you want the button to do?
[17:01:17] <Tom_itx> acknowledge that a tool change has taken place
[17:01:20] <Tom_itx> so it will continue
[17:02:10] <Tom_itx> the or2 component will do it for one iteration then neiter the hal_manualtoolchange or the button input will work
[17:02:13] <andypugh> I think the way to do that is to add an external "change done" pin to hal_manualtoolchange.
[17:02:40] <Tom_itx> and attach it to what signal?
[17:02:47] <andypugh> the button.
[17:02:55] <eric_unterhause1> jerk limiting is well known, we need to work on snap crackle and pop limiting
[17:03:38] <andypugh> So that either the button or the "OK" onscreen button work to clear the dialog box.
[17:04:10] <Tom_itx> that is the desired effect
[17:04:47] <andypugh> I think you are assuming that hal_manualtoochage "watches" iocontrol.0.tool-changed. I think it actually just sits there waiting and _sets_ the pin when it exits.
[17:05:08] <Tom_itx> right now the hal_manualtoolchange is mapped to iocontrol.0.tool-changed
[17:05:10] <JT-Shop> is manual tool change a component?
[17:05:20] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:05:32] <Tom_itx> and iocontrol.0.tool-change is mapped to hal_manualtoolchange.change
[17:05:52] <Tom_itx> they are mapped to each other sorta
[17:06:10] <JT-Shop> hmm I don't see it in the html man pages
[17:06:27] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis.html
[17:06:30] <Tom_itx> number 8.
[17:06:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/iocontrol.1.html
[17:06:47] <Tom_itx> are what i am looking at
[17:07:47] <andypugh> This is the code for manualtoolchange: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/hal_manualtoolchange.py;h=5111a9147e928c3601d77e08f97f23c89346b9c9;hb=refs/heads/master
[17:08:10] <JT-Shop> seems like it should be on this page with the rest of the userspace componets http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/
[17:08:34] <Tom_itx> you would think
[17:08:37] <JT-Shop> oh, it is a python script not a component
[17:09:10] <andypugh> Well, it is both: h = hal.component("hal_manualtoolchange")
[17:09:56] <Tom_itx> well what i do to get the manual tool change to appear in axis is:
[17:10:06] <Tom_itx> net tool-change iocontrol.0.tool-change => hal_manualtoolchange.change
[17:10:06] <Tom_itx> net tool-changed iocontrol.0.tool-changed <= hal_manualtoolchange.changed
[17:10:06] <Tom_itx> net tool-change-number iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number => hal_manualtoolchange.number
[17:10:06] <Tom_itx> net tool-prepare-loopback iocontrol.0.tool-prepare => iocontrol.0.tool-prepared
[17:10:36] <Tom_itx> and add a line: loadusr -W hal_manualtoolchange
[17:10:39] <Tom_itx> at the top
[17:12:38] <andypugh> If you look at the code, hal_manualtoolchange just pops up a dialog box, and then sets the "changed" pin when it exits.
[17:13:15] <Tom_itx> so how do i add or modify that to use with the exhisting code?
[17:13:35] <Tom_itx> i've not modified any code manually yet
[17:14:00] <andypugh> When you set iocontrol.0.tool-changed then the Linuxcnc system carries on happily, but the hal_manualtoolchange dialog is still sat there waiting.
[17:16:21] <Tom_itx> that's why the iocontrol.0.tool-change maps to hal_manualtoolchange.change
[17:16:24] <Tom_itx> above
[17:16:59] <Tom_itx> i was trying to intercept the iocontrol.0.tool-changed there
[17:17:15] <Tom_itx> but i guess it doesn't work that way
[17:17:40] <Tom_itx> so it would see it as either the hal_toolchanged.changed or my button changed it
[17:18:01] <andypugh> I am pretty inexpert with Python myself, but I think that adding a line after 48 h.newpin("external_cancel", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN) and then there needs to be some code around line 43 "if h.external_cancel {do stuff to clar the dialog box)
[17:19:55] <Tom_itx> where does this script reside on the pc?
[17:21:10] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure how to add an external button to that anyway
[17:21:21] <andypugh> probably usr/share/axis
[17:22:01] <andypugh> Adding the pin is the easy part (and being Python, the change will just happen, no need to recompile)
[17:23:30] <Tom_itx> axis is there but not this
[18:00:24] <Tom_itx> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/hal_manualtoolchange.py;h=fc9920734555ad07288140c851bd594823102105;hb=ca321ba7b7f3de6431a31e4a48cfd79d75d209c6
[18:00:30] <Tom_itx> i wonder how that one is different
[18:01:24] <Tom_itx> looks older i think
[18:04:44] <andypugh> file is at /usr/bin/hal_manualtoolchange.py
[18:10:48] <PetefromTn> syyl_: Hey man that lathe indicator holder looks sweet man. I need one!! I have a 12x36 asian lathe here that has the same bed design. I usually grab my mity midget magnetic for this purpose but it is a PIA sometimes to get it inside the movement.
[18:13:21] <andypugh> I think the second best thing about my CNC lathe (which I use like a manual lathe with smarter-then-normal power feeds) is the repeatable and accurate Z control. Something that manual lathes don't do terribly well.
[18:15:59] <PetefromTn> andypugh: You are trying to entice me into converting my lathe aren'tcha..LOL
[18:20:07] <andypugh> Lathes are pretty easy to convert on the Z, less so on the X, typically.
[18:21:48] <PetefromTn> Yeah this one has been done before many times online from what I have seen. I can certainly do it but I have other fish to fry right now like finishing up the VMC with toolchange etc. Whatever happens I hope to eventually sell this lathe and get a more commercial machine with a toolchanger to compliment the Cincnatti Arrow 500///
[18:21:52] <Tom_itx> he got me to try out my lathe cad package so now i've got a somewhat working post for linuxcnc lathe
[18:25:03] <PetefromTn> What kinda lathe is it?
[18:28:42] <abetusk> Aero-Tec3, what kind of lamp do you need? How long do you have to put it under? I'm finding that it's not really drying/curing and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong
[18:30:15] <Aero-Tec3> what type of lamp are you using and how far away is the board from the lamp?
[18:32:03] <Aero-Tec3> do you have a belt or conveyor type lamp or is it a static setup?
[18:32:12] <abetusk> I bought a 'uv blacklight' and had it pretty close, say an inch or two away. I've since made a 'lamp' on my own which consists of 12 UV LEDs rated at 2500 mcd (25 deg viewing angle)
[18:32:18] <abetusk> all static lamps...DIY
[18:32:28] <abetusk> LED is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-100PCS-5mm-Megabright-Ultra-Violet-LED-UV-Lamp-2-500mcd-BESTBUY-/290726116420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b0a07c44
[18:32:38] <abetusk> solder mask is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-UV-Curable-Solder-Mask-Repairing-Paint-White-100g-/200940317357?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec8f9eaad
[18:32:56] <abetusk> and also: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-PCB-UV-Curable-Solder-Mask-Repairing-Paint-Green-/200617690716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb5bf065c
[18:33:41] <abetusk> I should note that I'm not putting a film over it. I put a drop or two, then apply it to the rest of the board with a sponge
[18:43:03] <dgarr> Tom_itx: a modified hal_manualtoolchange : http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/mod_hal_manualtoolchange
[18:43:47] <dgarr> includes a pin hal_manualtoolchange.change_button that could be connected to a momentary swtich
[18:44:22] <Tom_itx> just do a net to the hal_manualtoolchange.change_button?
[18:44:36] <Tom_itx> and the physical pin
[18:44:55] <Tom_itx> i'll give it a try in a bit thanks
[18:45:31] <dgarr> yes, you can test it using halcmd -kf; setp hal_manualtoolchange.change_button 1; setp hal_manualtoolchange.change_button 0 ( to pulse it)
[18:45:41] <Tom_itx> ok
[18:45:58] <Tom_itx> i'll try it here in a bit. trying to catch up on a couple things here first
[18:51:35] <andypugh> archivist: I guess you don't need these? (or not at that proce anyway) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171071057949
[19:01:13] <Aero-Tec3> abetusk, UV light has a large spectrum range, black lights are low power and usually not in the range needed to do the job
[19:01:49] <Tom_itx> i used fishtank bulbs for my uv paint
[19:02:05] <Aero-Tec3> not sure if the leds are in the right range as well
[19:03:14] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch_cure.jpg
[19:03:22] <Tom_itx> hardly 'blacklight' in spectrum
[19:03:28] <Aero-Tec3> I used 500 watt halogen lights, you have to make sure to keep then high and not cooking your board
[19:04:00] <Aero-Tec3> they are likely full spectrum lights
[19:04:26] <Aero-Tec3> I had them about 2 feet away
[19:05:28] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/exposure.jpg
[19:05:37] <Tom_itx> and i used that on the actual silkscreen mask
[19:05:48] <Aero-Tec3> your fish tank bulbs are most likely full spectrum lights
[19:05:55] <Tom_itx> no
[19:06:05] <Tom_itx> you can smell ozone from them quite a bit
[19:06:44] <Aero-Tec3> I did silk screening as well
[19:06:45] <Tom_itx> they're for the purifier
[19:07:00] <t12> tom_itx: got that power supply up and running
[19:07:12] <Aero-Tec3> used it to make circuit boards
[19:07:20] <Tom_itx> t12, nice
[19:07:31] <Tom_itx> need more pics
[19:07:43] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/41m8bbl2cwdwexy/kVSZw_IzFt
[19:07:45] <Tom_itx> Aero-Tec3, so did i but not using uv exposure
[19:07:51] <Tom_itx> i did laser toner transfer
[19:07:57] <Tom_itx> now i'm lazy and send em off
[19:10:01] <Aero-Tec3> abetusk, try using halogen lights
[19:10:12] <abetusk> ok, thanks
[19:11:38] <abetusk> when you say 'full spectrum', you mean they cover the full spectrum of light in question, not the company 'full spectrum', right?
[19:11:50] <Aero-Tec3> right
[19:12:04] <Tom_itx> 'daylight bulbs'
[19:12:19] <Aero-Tec3> just any plain old cheap halogen lights
[19:12:52] <Aero-Tec3> they now have smaller ones
[19:13:03] <Aero-Tec3> 300 and 250 watt
[19:13:23] <Aero-Tec3> even down to 100
[19:14:03] <Aero-Tec3> the smallest full length ones I have seen were 150 watt
[19:14:28] <Aero-Tec3> length of a standard 500 watt one
[19:14:41] <t12> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox3c5bGNp8Y
[19:14:43] <Tecan> (Ox3c5bGNp8Y) "Four Mercury Light Bulb In A Microwave" by "rioross" is "Tech" - Length: 0:04:10
[19:14:47] <t12> jam board + mercury bulbs in a microwave
[19:14:48] <t12> heh
[19:15:18] <t12> theres a suprising number of these videos
[19:15:21] <t12> of microwaving random things
[19:15:59] <t12> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAMabhMSe9w
[19:16:00] <Tecan> (xAMabhMSe9w) "Let's Microwave #2 - A 1000W Metal Halide Light Bulb" by "Bill Gilmour" is "Tech" - Length: 0:06:10
[19:17:26] <t12> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Zvh-Luic0
[19:17:27] <Tecan> (K4Zvh-Luic0) "1000W xenon arc lamp built into DIY searchlight housing" by "Ben Krasnow" is "Tech" - Length: 0:07:41
[19:19:42] <Aero-Tec3> anything go BOOM?
[19:19:59] <Aero-Tec3> any of the ovens go up in smoke?
[19:24:29] <t12> not for these it seems
[19:24:37] <t12> i once took apart a semiconductor uv exposure rig
[19:24:47] <t12> it has a bulb that was just mercury and who knows what sealed in a ball
[19:24:52] <t12> in a like, quartz? chamber
[19:25:03] <t12> with glass cooling nozzles
[19:25:15] <t12> and essentially a commercial microwave gun
[19:25:37] <t12> so i'm guessing except for cooling it likely runs pretty well in a microwave
[19:39:57] <CaptHindsight> mercury lamps may be doped to shift the spectrum of its output
[19:40:37] <CaptHindsight> the lamp you need to use depends on the photoinitiators used and the opacity of the coating
[19:41:15] <CaptHindsight> translucent or clear requires less power than opaque
[19:42:11] <CaptHindsight> most PI's that are used for UV curing applications are only sensitive to 360-380nm
[19:42:34] <CaptHindsight> or better put <380nm
[19:55:05] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, the laptop fpga is interesting, he's Singapore based http://kosagi.com/
[19:55:36] <tjtr33> http://kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page
[19:59:59] <tjtr33> hehe he has 3d accelerometer built in, you can wave at it maybe ( as trillian tosses a pencil )through the radio's on/off-sensitive airspace
[20:01:23] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I was half kidding about it. But it's a design based on the i.mx6 ARM soc
[20:02:48] <CaptHindsight> they gots lots of attention a few months ago when they posted all their design files in the open
[20:02:50] <Tom_itx> dgarr, finally had a chance to test it. thanks alot
[20:03:00] <Tom_itx> test using halcmd at least
[20:03:39] <dgarr> welcome, the script sim_pin is easier than halcmd : $ sim_pin hal_manualtoolchange.change_button
[20:15:50] <Tom_itx> maybe should add this mod permanently, i'm sure others without toolchangers might get use out of it
[20:18:25] <dgarr> i did make a patch: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/0001-hal_manualtoolchange-new-pin-for-external-button.patch
[20:19:07] <dgarr> if it tests ok, it can probably be considered
[20:19:38] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna try a 'button' on it next
[20:19:52] <Tom_itx> just bare wires until i can get another button tomorrow
[20:33:40] <atom1> dgarr, works just as expected
[20:33:47] <atom1> thanks again
[20:33:49] <tjtr33> ah, the patch lets you wire in the 'done' ack for the 'feedme' (change) message. nice. thx dgarr ( hmm wire the 'change' msg to a std light tower so operator knows baby is hungry )