#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-07-03

[00:00:33] <CaptHindsight> not sure is coreboot will make things any lower
[00:00:37] <CaptHindsight> is/if
[00:01:03] <zultron> (running el6, not Debian-derivatives)
[00:01:55] <zultron> I doubt coreboot would make a difference, but that's a very uninformed statement.
[00:03:31] <CaptHindsight> some of the chipsets use an EC that has closed firmware
[00:04:07] <CaptHindsight> it's a small binary blob that coreboot still has to use if you want to use the EC
[00:05:14] <ssi> bleh
[00:05:28] <ssi> I don't understand the deep magic that goes into the rtapi module loading
[00:05:50] <CaptHindsight> or you can just not use the EC but then you might also not have the onchip NIC or some other peripheral that relies on the EC
[00:07:35] <ssi> AHA
[00:08:20] <ssi> got it
[00:13:24] <qrp> 6us, very good
[00:16:56] <qrp> I once see the composition of the acient FANUC cnc system, the use microcontroller, 80C186, I think we rely on the cpu too much, that cause an expensive cost
[00:18:04] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc has been run on $5 cpu's
[00:19:35] <qrp> this box mayve jitter is 6us, but that means what? what is the max pulse speed?
[00:19:54] <qrp> for example, screw 5mm
[00:21:10] <qrp> for example, screw is 5mm, one pulse mean 1um, then what is the max rapid speed of the linuxcnc on the box?
[00:21:25] <CaptHindsight> AMD A4-3300 Llano 2.5GHz Socket FM1 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 6410D is only $40
[00:21:33] <ssi> depends on a lot of factors :P
[00:22:22] <qrp> yes, depends on manty factors, but I think the most important factor is the pulse generate method,
[00:22:51] <qrp> of course, I means step type, using parport
[00:26:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_stepconf.html try using the wizard
[00:27:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/motion_tweaking_steppers.html
[00:28:20] <qrp> thank you , I will read this carefully
[00:29:20] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/StepTimingCalculator.ods
[00:29:36] <RyanS> Is this the sort of service I should look for to transport a bridgeport http://www.quicktow.com.au/SERVICES just a general transport company?
[00:30:22] <CaptHindsight> RyanS: they are easily moved with a tiltbed tow truck
[00:31:24] <CaptHindsight> getting them to and from the tiltbed is the most difficult part if you don't have a forklift
[00:31:53] <qrp> Figure: Normally Open Switches, I think this figure may mislead the reader, for limit swith , swith is closed is suggested, because this can prevent the problem of wiring borken
[00:32:13] <CaptHindsight> I picked up a BP from a garage last year, the guy selling it was 75 year old machinist and was only 5' 2"
[00:32:48] <CaptHindsight> when we got there with the truck he had moved it out of his garage by himself using a pole and 1" rods for rollers
[00:32:50] <RyanS> how did he reach the drawbar?
[00:33:09] <CaptHindsight> step ladder
[00:33:20] <ssi> I got mine off a tiltbed and moved 50' with just pipes
[00:33:37] <RyanS> lol.. Do most people need a stepladder?
[00:33:39] <ssi> got it on the truck with a forklift at the seller's end
[00:33:53] <ssi> truck driver tilted the bed and extended it out, set the edge inside my garage
[00:34:05] <ssi> we slid the machine down til the corner was on the concrete, and then pulled the bed out from under it
[00:34:08] <ssi> was easypeasy
[00:35:42] <RyanS> These things are usually not available in Australia but http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271230851650?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 so have no idea what it's worth here
[00:36:40] <CaptHindsight> ~1K and up in the US
[00:36:55] <CaptHindsight> ask Valen
[00:37:14] <CaptHindsight> but he's not around now
[00:37:24] <qrp> interesting
[00:37:34] <RyanS> ... they are never on sale here
[00:37:56] <CaptHindsight> I was looking for used BP's and similar a year or two ago in Australia
[00:38:25] <CaptHindsight> he said <$2K was a steal there
[00:39:40] <qrp> the price is nice
[00:39:42] <RyanS> I'm a bit reluctant to get a quote shipping yet.. but I'm not doing it myself... I wouldn't have a clue whether it costs $200 or $1000 to transport
[00:39:54] <CaptHindsight> how far?
[00:40:03] <RyanS> 30km
[00:40:08] <CaptHindsight> should be like towing a car
[00:40:37] <CaptHindsight> tow truck $200 a rigger $2k
[00:40:45] <qrp> go and have a look
[00:40:47] <qrp> first
[00:41:05] <CaptHindsight> run it and see how it sounds
[00:41:18] <qrp> see the condition of the machine
[00:41:26] <CaptHindsight> if you can't find parts you'll have it back on ebay :)
[00:41:33] <qrp> yes,run first if it can
[00:42:05] <RyanS> I'm a bit concerned about the quill being extended.. You not need to machine like that right?
[00:43:00] <CaptHindsight> it's good to see it down, you can see any scoring
[00:43:11] <RyanS> the knee ways look pretty dry
[00:43:19] <CaptHindsight> but you need to see it up close
[00:43:52] <CaptHindsight> is it all rusty?
[00:44:29] <qrp> this price.... you want it dry and not rusty and work well
[00:44:40] <RyanS> I know but considering it looks messy it leads me to think that the previous owner machined with quill extended. Which is bad right..?
[00:44:49] <CaptHindsight> I've seen some stored outdoor and with a light brown coating of oxide :)
[00:45:10] <RyanS> This is it http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271230851650?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[00:45:59] <RyanS> I'm looking at my eight-foot ceiling and I can't imagine how this machine can be 10'
[00:46:13] <CaptHindsight> I've seen some with the head cracked around the quill with "just needs to be welded" in the ad
[00:48:17] <RyanS> Shouldn't there be a black spoked handwheel on the left-hand side of the quill?
[00:50:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-SERIES-I-VERTICAL-MILLING-MACHINE-2-HP-MOTOR-VARIABLE-SPEED-/281115211291?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item4173c5b61b
[00:51:38] <RyanS> Is that expensive for that condition?
[00:51:50] <CaptHindsight> just for the pics ^^
[00:52:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-9-x-42-VERTICAL-MILLING-MACHINE-8-SPEED-/360686431621?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item53fa962d85
[00:52:45] <CaptHindsight> more common price here ^^
[00:54:09] <RyanS> yeah this one I am looking at has no black handwheel
[00:55:49] <RyanS> so if the table is loose in the centre and then tight when you crack it to the end, it's pretty screwed?
[00:57:25] <CaptHindsight> any old one with lots of use is like that, the screws get worn
[00:57:41] <CaptHindsight> are you going to convert it to cnc?
[00:57:56] <RyanS> no I doubt it
[00:57:59] <CaptHindsight> if so you're going to change to ballscrews anyway
[00:59:20] <RyanS> SO is not actually the slideway surfaces that get worn?
[01:00:35] <CaptHindsight> that to, so thats why it's best to see it in person
[01:03:11] <RyanS> yeah, I read there was a tell-tale sign of a *really* worn machine something to do with the knee?
[01:04:15] <CaptHindsight> I have one like that and i can still use it
[01:04:31] <CaptHindsight> depends on what you're doing
[01:06:57] <RyanS> put it this way, the alternative is a new RF45 clone for $1900.... in my budget
[01:10:35] <ssi> the bridgport will be way more machine
[01:10:38] <ssi> assuming it's usable
[01:13:53] <RyanS> But it's like a used car if it's making weird noises probably don't buy?
[01:15:07] <CaptHindsight> http://tinyurl.com/lmcvxvr this guy really sounds tired of this, he even will load for free
[01:17:56] <RyanS> What about to Australia?
[01:18:25] <RyanS> lol
[01:18:32] <RyanS> Express post
[01:21:59] <CaptHindsight> flat rate USPS 20lbs is ~$75 3-5 days
[01:23:08] <ssi> yea i noticed that earlier when you linked it
[01:23:15] <ssi> sounds like a badly done conversion :P
[01:23:40] <RyanS> How on earth can you " load it onto a trailer"
[01:23:53] <ssi> big forklift or crane
[01:23:54] <CaptHindsight> a shipping container to Australia is ~$3K
[01:24:20] <RyanS> I don't think it would fit lol
[01:24:29] <CaptHindsight> whats the import duty on used machine tools?
[01:24:42] <ssi> I'd probably try to grab that matsuura
[01:24:48] <ssi> I'm just concerned with unloading it on this end
[01:24:56] <ssi> unless I could partially disassemble it
[01:25:00] <ssi> get it down to 5k chunks
[01:25:00] <ssi> heh
[01:26:55] <RyanS> buyer says to wife... "I'm having something delivered, it's not really that big".... Machine arrives.... Divorce
[01:27:38] <ssi> :D
[01:28:22] <CaptHindsight> Milwaukee is only 60 miles for me, not sure if i want to mess with it
[01:28:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRATT-WHITNEY-BEAVER-V5-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-26541-/370712909484?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56503616ac
[01:32:15] <CaptHindsight> there was an old Arcoloc for $2k that worked
[01:36:24] <CaptHindsight> http://columbus.craigslist.org/for/3865734241.html
[01:36:49] <RyanS> Someone on a forum said a BP was as "rigid as a wet noodle".. lol
[01:37:42] <RyanS> a bit top-heavy I guess...
[01:38:16] <CaptHindsight> big drill press
[01:43:38] <ssi> compared to some machines, yes
[01:43:49] <ssi> compared to an RF45... I think you'll be quite happy with it
[01:45:20] <RyanS> .... I can see it going for $3k with everyone fighting for the rarity it is here in Australia
[01:45:42] <RyanS> Too much for me
[01:47:16] <CaptHindsight> oh, you're down in Melbourne
[01:47:56] <CaptHindsight> thats where i found an entire shop of equipment for sale
[01:51:33] <CaptHindsight> http://machines4u.cachefly.net/view/advert/Tos-FA-3-AU-Milling-Machine/91906/
[01:59:12] <RyanS> Horizontal is probably only marginally useful for hobbyist?
[02:07:58] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:01:17] <Loetmichel> mornin
[03:36:29] <RyanS> Is this some sort of aftermarket power feed? http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTc5WDk3OQ==/z/s3gAAOxyuGFRzlDo/$%28KGrHqJ,!mIFGrfs+ko2BRzlDoi0e!~~60_12.JPG is it usually on the same circuit as motor (ie 3 phase too)?
[04:56:40] <Tom_itx> ssi, cape sounds way cooler than shield anyway :)
[04:59:15] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop-2, in case you miss the scrollback: http://pastebin.com/UPTrWUF4
[05:48:20] <jthornton> Tom_itx, got it thanks
[06:19:41] <qrp> i find a tiny bug for linuxcnc , in chinese version, stepconf can't choose inch or mm
[06:21:55] <jthornton> a translation problem?
[06:22:18] <jthornton> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=6744
[06:22:28] <qrp> no, just can't choose item
[06:24:04] <qrp> in english version, you can choose inch or mm, in chinese version, item just shows inch/mm, so you can't choose
[06:24:57] <jthornton> I wonder if it is a problem with the po translation file
[06:24:57] <qrp> tomorrow I will print screen for you, now I am in home
[06:25:24] <jthornton> you should file a bug report with the link above
[06:25:37] <qrp> ok, i am fresh, sorry
[06:25:56] <qrp> i will give bug report
[07:32:51] <archivist> cute hardinge fleabay 261236850405
[08:12:55] <skunkworks> awww
[08:13:07] <skunkworks> I think the base weighs more than the mill...
[08:27:59] <cradek> looks like a useful basement machine
[08:30:27] <archivist> or clockmakers mill
[08:36:14] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/emco.JPG
[08:36:31] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/terco.JPG
[08:37:18] <archivist> ew a raid!
[08:37:45] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/emcoclose.JPG
[08:38:04] <archivist> I have repaired one of those yellow emco lathes
[08:38:49] <cradek> don't they usually have little turrets?
[08:39:01] <skunkworks> cradek, I think that is an option.
[08:39:27] <skunkworks> These have the quickchange tool posts like your little sherline had
[08:39:39] <skunkworks> I wish they did ;)
[08:40:15] <archivist> is this a clean up and profit operation ?
[08:40:34] <skunkworks> I think for a few of them..
[08:40:37] * skunkworks wants one...
[08:40:51] * skunkworks has space in the basement..
[08:41:57] <syyl_ws> truck full of emcos Oo
[08:42:01] <syyl_ws> what the..?
[08:42:21] <syyl_ws> and a small arboga mill
[08:42:41] <syyl_ws> raid in a school?
[08:49:42] <skunkworks> yes
[11:31:19] <Jymmmm> cradek: ping
[11:34:51] <cradek> ICMP redirect
[11:36:04] <Jymmmm> arp -s cradek
[11:37:16] <Jymmmm> cradek: Have you ever done a longevity test on you tape backups? Backed up something 80 years ago and still see it it's readable?
[11:39:08] <archivist> tapes often fail over time, depends on who and how they were made as well as storage conditions
[11:39:09] <t12> modern tape is specced at 10-15y shelf life
[11:39:33] <archivist> some like cold damp some like warm dry
[11:40:08] <t12> usually the tape technology advances faster than lifetime
[11:40:08] <archivist> archives are learning a baking trick for a one time get the data off technique
[11:40:18] <cradek> I recently restored a bunch of early-80s tapes, HP brand, they all worked perfectly
[11:40:22] <t12> so when your current drives are eol, but new ones and migrate data
[11:40:31] <t12> s/but/buy
[11:40:53] <cradek> it's foolish (for my predecessors) to let them sit that long, of course
[11:41:07] <archivist> old audio and video tapes are dying
[11:41:11] <t12> rarely does anyone budget tape stuff correctly
[11:41:18] <Jymmmm> cradek: what type of tapes were they?
[11:41:23] <t12> im kinda fighting that at work currently
[11:42:13] <cradek> oh those old cartridges whatever they were called
[11:42:24] <t12> dat?
[11:42:31] <cradek> not that that's relevant for decisions today
[11:42:33] <Jymmmm> cradek: Colorado?!
[11:42:33] <archivist> dc150
[11:42:40] <cradek> no, way before dat, not helical scan
[11:42:50] <t12> 8mm?
[11:43:05] <cradek> no, those are also helical
[11:43:06] <t12> what were the vax tapes called?
[11:43:27] <archivist> dc150 and dc300 were before 8mm
[11:43:28] <Jymmmm> cradek: http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=Colorado+Jumbo+120+Tape+Drive+tape+backup+system+-+new
[11:44:10] <Jymmmm> ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEehhhhhhhhhhhhhhEEEEEEEEEEEE...
[11:44:25] <Jymmmm> gawd those were annoying
[11:44:28] <cradek> dc150 might be right
[11:44:50] <cradek> this one says CERTIFIED DATA CARTRIDGE 150 ft.
[11:45:20] <archivist> we used them on the Altos 1000
[11:45:40] <archivist> then had to move up to 300 then 600 then ...
[11:46:16] <cradek> I booted from one of them (HP RMB Basic on a 68k) to restore the rest
[11:47:39] <Connor> I liked the Travan back in the day.
[11:48:12] <cradek> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EHvV5WJmggk/TVLNFY0uUaI/AAAAAAAAAqY/oZI_HMYxaDY/s1600/P090211_17.480001.JPG
[11:48:32] <cradek> looks like this, except mine are 150ft and therefore probably 10-15 MB
[11:49:07] <archivist> those 3M tapes were pretty bomb proof
[11:49:07] <cradek> I suppose they came in different lengths - that 45 looks pretty full but this one I have looks pretty empty
[11:49:58] <archivist> later on there was a thinner tape version which could get a gig on it
[11:50:33] <Connor> I remember back in the day.. a kit that turned your VCR into a backup device..
[11:50:35] <cradek> I suppose these are multi-track (not helical) but I don't know for sure
[11:50:55] <cradek> Connor: at one time I had a full-size isa card that supposedly did that, but I never tried it
[11:51:04] <cradek> Connor: had moved on to floppy tape (shudder) by then
[11:53:56] <Connor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArVid
[11:55:55] <cradek> wow, 2 Gb
[11:56:16] <Connor> the ones I was talking about was like 80Mb.
[11:56:42] <cradek> I thought mine had an rf (bnc) connector on the card
[11:57:13] <Connor> Probably had a VGA to composit adapter or something..
[11:57:18] <cradek> er no, not bnc, the screw-on one
[11:57:36] <Connor> COAX
[11:58:50] <Connor> I still have parts of my original XT computer.
[11:59:08] <Connor> The 20Mb Hard drives..
[12:13:07] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:54:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tpactools.com/3-Axis-Package_c_14.html anyone ever order linear glass scales from these guys?
[13:01:31] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: its analog with speppers no need as you cand correect the system
[13:18:58] <pcw_home> Doug Engelbart RIP
[13:23:02] <archivist> I admit I had to google him after seeing Als message
[13:26:31] <CaptHindsight> haven't seen anything on the news yet
[13:26:57] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: where did you hear about his passing?
[13:27:12] <archivist> just got announced on the classicmp mailing list
[13:27:54] <pcw_home> A real pioneer
[16:17:18] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:23:16] <PetefromTn> Forgive me but what the hell does gn8 mean?
[16:23:41] <Tom_itx> good night
[16:24:14] <Tom_itx> sorta like l8r
[16:25:00] <PetefromTn> okay thats what I thought but wasn't sure.
[16:25:04] <PetefromTn> thanks.
[17:52:05] <andypugh> I wonder how hard it is to make collets?
[17:52:46] <andypugh> I would assume that if you turn the outer, then bore in-situ, then split, then they will be perfect?
[17:53:15] <andypugh> Ho mah
[17:54:07] <mhaberler> hi
[17:54:46] <mhaberler> trying to wake up, or the other way round - clock confused
[17:54:59] <andypugh> Back in .at?
[17:55:12] <mhaberler> yes, a few hours back
[17:55:42] <andypugh> I settled on staying awake until local night. Seemed to work.
[17:56:23] <andypugh> But I sleep oddly anyway. I was last out and first in for most of the Wichita meet.
[17:56:23] <mhaberler> trying to answer your singleton question, but it looks a coffee is on order first
[17:56:51] <mhaberler> well I tacked on a week in ca+or, so thats a bonus 2hrs
[17:57:02] <andypugh> I am thinking that as the database is inherently a singleton, it doesn't matter.
[17:57:36] <mhaberler> the db: yes; the interp readahead context: trying to determine if there could be more than one
[17:57:45] <andypugh> Though perhaps a patricular instance (readahead) might want to fork the database.
[17:57:53] <mhaberler> right
[17:58:07] <andypugh> Or, more likely, just not be allowed to commit the database.
[17:58:25] <mhaberler> the way I view this (assuming you could suspend and switch to a secondary interpreter, say mdi-while-paused:
[17:59:20] <andypugh> mdi-while-paused only makes sense if it can both commit and propogate the database.
[17:59:34] <mhaberler> right
[18:00:03] <mhaberler> it is a bit more than the db; its the interp state too (settings, modes, position etc)
[18:00:26] <andypugh> Which rather mandates "all components use live data all the time, except when they have a private copy explicitly"
[18:00:56] <mhaberler> not sure
[18:01:04] <andypugh> settings is a puzzle. It is there, it is convenient.
[18:02:22] <mhaberler> the issue IMV are the ops which modify say a tool property during ra and that becomes applied only once the matching canon command gets executed
[18:02:44] <mhaberler> or a g5x
[18:02:46] <andypugh> I rather think that we need to reconsider globals in general. They may be a bad idea in the IT-theory sense, but we are working with real-space objects.
[18:03:35] <mhaberler> ah, the messy state model - frankly I think some ops should be taken out, like modifying g5x by the interp during a run
[18:04:22] <andypugh> I am saving up the G10 problem. That is the only place where readahead pushes something forwards into realtime.
[18:04:38] <mhaberler> let me look that up
[18:05:07] <mhaberler> yes, that one should be removed ;)
[18:06:01] <andypugh> Would make life easier, but it is standard G-code.
[18:06:28] <andypugh> I am not convinced anyone ever uses it in live G-code.
[18:06:42] <andypugh> it may be purely an MDI thing.
[18:07:49] <mhaberler> it would be superb if one could restrict G10 impact to 'frozen at start of a run' (which is concept which is lacking right now; it's a sequence of rs274ngc commands executed in one go; each MDI is one 'run')
[18:08:24] <mhaberler> it lacks also for a completely different reason: motion cannot tell if its at the end of a run, or the queue underran because of some delay
[18:08:56] <mhaberler> the tp has to deal with that
[18:09:47] <mhaberler> its this line: http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/kinematics/tp.c;h=c115d91f85070733f84f3ea03aa45f491215f3c8;hb=refs/heads/master#l688
[18:09:52] <mhaberler> where it cannot tell
[18:11:36] <andypugh> Yay! for there being comment!
[19:24:13] <Tom_itx> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/expatjokes/engineering.html
[19:24:20] <Tom_itx> some may get some humor
[19:34:58] <andypugh> Night all
[20:33:25] <AR_> can someone help me code the gcode for this?
[20:33:25] <AR_> http://i.imgur.com/qOBR3Th.gif
[20:57:52] <RyanS> this BP has a power feed & DRO..... Sure I could get a VFD for the motor, but that is the power feed going to be three-phase as well...
[22:19:38] <qrp> faint, I can't visit sourceforge.net