#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-06-28

[00:00:33] <eric_unterhausen> I doubt that's it, someone posted abt this on the mail list recently
[00:00:55] <Aero-Tec2> win 7 box, firefox cannot get my login info for the forum for linuxCNC.org
[00:01:41] <Aero-Tec2> any response as to why it will not work?
[00:02:12] <Aero-Tec2> also why so many anti bot things
[00:02:21] <eric_unterhausen> search the email list archives
[00:02:24] <Aero-Tec2> tad over kill is it not?
[00:02:52] <eric_unterhausen> chinese spammers making wikis and forums into an administrative nightmare
[00:03:07] <eric_unterhausen> Russians too, for that matter
[00:03:32] <eric_unterhausen> although the Russians mostly are 'bots, so fairly easy to defeat
[00:06:07] <eric_unterhausen> and apparently nobody with admin is on here right now, so whining is only going to annoy the rest of us
[00:06:20] <Aero-Tec2> filter out china IPs and send them into high level checking
[00:08:13] <Aero-Tec2> did not know I was whining, or was I, just asking whats up and if anyone else has the same problem
[00:11:01] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/29-forum-announcements/15595-new-user-registration
[00:11:06] <eric_unterhausen> email address in there
[00:12:44] <eric_unterhausen> looks like JT-shop and jthornton both logged off a while back
[00:20:08] <Aero-Tec2> sent email, thanks for the posting
[00:20:34] <eric_unterhausen> anti-spam is always frustrating for everyone
[00:21:22] <eric_unterhausen> I moderate a forum, it was pretty well locked down and we would get waves of spammers
[00:21:39] <eric_unterhausen> One morning I banned 20 spammers and deleted 100's of posts
[00:21:44] <eric_unterhausen> before work
[00:45:34] <Aero-Tec2> that sucks
[00:45:54] <Aero-Tec2> would be cool to filter out IP ranges
[00:46:26] <eric_unterhausen> I banned all of Bangladesh
[00:46:32] <eric_unterhausen> but you can't ban china or russia
[00:46:45] <Aero-Tec2> found my use by doing user search, when I had the user I was able to login
[00:47:34] <Aero-Tec2> why not china and russia?
[00:47:45] <eric_unterhausen> too many actual users
[00:48:30] <Aero-Tec2> could you filter them some?
[00:49:17] <Aero-Tec2> if IP is in range x then they are moderated, if not then not moderated
[00:49:39] <eric_unterhausen> we can just ban ip's, ranges of ip's
[00:49:54] <eric_unterhausen> they have some filters that I don't really understand
[00:49:54] <Aero-Tec2> then they are real guys unmoderate them
[00:50:12] <eric_unterhausen> too many users to do that
[00:50:56] <Aero-Tec2> you could ban the whole 256 block of any known spammer
[00:52:09] <Aero-Tec2> if they are a home dsl or some small time guy you could complain to the ISP
[00:52:30] <eric_unterhausen> that doesn't work in these foreign isp's
[00:52:46] <Aero-Tec2> ?
[00:52:53] <eric_unterhausen> they don't care
[00:52:55] <Aero-Tec2> all IPs are the same
[00:53:08] <Aero-Tec2> x.x.x.x
[00:53:27] <eric_unterhausen> complaining to the ip is not going to help much
[00:53:34] <Aero-Tec2> to
[00:53:52] <eric_unterhausen> did someone other than you say complain to the isp?
[00:54:11] <Aero-Tec2> unless your also playing with V6 and not just V4
[00:54:41] <Aero-Tec2> no I said you can complain to the ISP
[00:55:04] <Aero-Tec2> I know I had to deal with ISP complaints all the time
[00:55:18] <Aero-Tec2> real pain
[00:56:46] <Aero-Tec2> blocking the lower 256 block of IP addresses should be universal no matter the country
[00:57:15] <Aero-Tec2> that was what we did for problem IPs for spammers
[00:57:21] <Connor> cnczone works fine for me..
[00:59:28] <Aero-Tec2> now it is working for me as well
[00:59:49] <Connor> They may have a backup process that runs around 1:00am or something.
[01:02:17] <Aero-Tec2> true
[01:02:45] <Aero-Tec2> if EST they should make it later
[01:04:04] <Aero-Tec2> 1AM EST is only 10PM PST lots of us still up at that time
[01:09:27] <Aero-Tec2> 4 AM would be better, Alaska and Hawaii are even further ahead of us so 1AM EST would be getting early in the evening or late afternoon for them
[01:10:10] <Connor> What TZ are you in ?
[01:10:21] <Aero-Tec2> PST
[01:10:23] <Aero-Tec2> you?
[01:10:26] <Connor> EST
[01:10:39] <Aero-Tec2> your a night hawk
[01:10:52] <Aero-Tec2> time for bed for me
[01:10:55] <Connor> yea. normally in bed by 3am. up by 10am
[01:12:50] <Aero-Tec2> night all
[02:06:15] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:31:23] <mk0> hi all ppl. when did someone see micges online last time?
[06:46:46] <PetefromTn> MMmmmmornin!
[07:16:30] <archivist_herron> !seen micges
[07:16:31] <the_wench> Never heard of the entity micges you ask for
[07:16:38] <archivist_herron> lies
[07:16:42] <jthornton> lol
[07:55:23] <PetefromTn> Well guys gonna make my Router spindle mount for the VMC today so I can have higher speeds for engraving etc... Kind of a big project and I only have one piece of material for it lol
[07:57:06] <jdh> if at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving.
[07:57:16] <jdh> but, you an always buy more metal
[07:58:27] <jdh> 3/4" sheet with two clamp-on holes?
[08:02:04] <PetefromTn> Nope 1" plate with a very strange shape with scallops and a bolt pattern and the router hole with pinch bolt.
[08:04:35] <PetefromTn> The Cincinatti Spindle has a labrynth seal plate that is bolted on with six large SHCS that actually holds the guts of the spindle in against the pressure of the drawbar. This is the plate I am gonna attach the router plate to. I intend to put four of the six screws in with studs instead so I can bolt this thing on and keep the other two the original bolts to keep the plate from coming off. This way I can just use some nuts to
[08:04:35] <PetefromTn> remove and replace it.
[08:05:19] <PetefromTn> Also the labrynth seal plate is round with two scallops cut out of the sides which SHOULD allow me some modicum of repeatability when i replace the plate on and off.
[08:06:11] <PetefromTn> With any luck the X offset will be the same as the spindle and the distance between the two will be measureable easily.
[08:06:24] <jdh> I have a 30krpm spindle I'd like to attach to mine. I don't have a controller or docs though and don't know what the 4 wires do.
[08:06:48] <PetefromTn> Man 30k would be sweet.
[08:07:01] <PetefromTn> The router should be about 25k or so. and 1.5HP
[08:07:16] <PetefromTn> I am using the tried and true Porter Cable 690.
[08:07:33] <PetefromTn> Who knows what the runout will be but hopefully not too bad.
[08:07:47] <PetefromTn> I only intend to use it for engraving and some wood and plastic work.
[08:07:57] <PetefromTn> The rest will be done by the factory spindle.
[08:08:09] <jdh> how fast is the stock spindle?
[08:08:15] <PetefromTn> 6k
[08:09:26] <jdh> I dropped my ladder parts off this morning to be welded. $80 cash seemed reasonable
[08:09:33] <PetefromTn> I am hoping that the router spindle will take the load off of the engraving work I do which often can run for many hours.
[08:09:42] <PetefromTn> what ladder parts?
[08:10:30] <jdh> dive ladder for my boat. bracket is 1/2" plate, ladder is .25 wall 2x2 square tubing with six 1.25" rungs through it.
[08:11:19] <PetefromTn> Jeez thats pretty heavy duty, aluminum or stainless?
[08:11:33] <jdh> 6061. I don't think i could cut stainless
[08:11:49] <PetefromTn> I Tig weld stuff like this all the time in my shop for customers.
[08:12:01] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/qjkhtcl
[08:12:04] <jdh> that's the bracket
[08:13:17] <PetefromTn> Nice, jeez it is heavy duty tho, why does it need to be so thick?
[08:13:48] <jdh> because I don't know how thick is thick enough and if you are only going to build one, you might as well overbuild it.
[08:13:55] <PetefromTn> I mean I used to dive quite a bit and a fully dressed man in a dive suit with tank and everything weighs a lot
[08:14:14] <PetefromTn> Yeah there is that...
[08:14:17] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/njyfz7t
[08:14:48] <jdh> that's the back. I 45'ed the tabs too so there is a 0.25" wide bevel to weld into.
[08:14:49] <PetefromTn> Did you machine that?
[08:15:08] <jdh> yeah, same mill as connor's
[08:15:37] <PetefromTn> WOW thats a big chunk for an 0704 LOL
[08:16:13] <jdh> it's only .5" thick. I had half an inch of Y to spare
[08:17:38] <PetefromTn> I know they are decent mills but when connor brings by his parts for me to make for his drawbar and stuff I cannot believe how small everything is. That millhead is TINY! My RF45 millhead I could barely carry across the room and I can hold the 0704 millhead in the palm of my hand. LOL
[08:20:48] <jdh> rf45 is a whole different class
[08:20:52] <PetefromTn> SO is there one mount on top and another on bottom?
[08:21:03] <jdh> I don't understand.
[08:21:08] <PetefromTn> yeah I agree
[08:21:38] <PetefromTn> I mean that mount is there two of them on each end of the ladder or just one or what?
[08:22:01] <jdh> it's a T ladder. Center piece and rungs stick out on either side. The ladder hangs from that
[08:22:03] <PetefromTn> OR does it just have the one mount and a T shaped ladder that folds up when not in use
[08:22:40] <PetefromTn> Ahh that is a good design, should work well. Now I see why the single mount is so heavy duty..
[08:23:00] <PetefromTn> I was picturing something like you see on the back of fullsize custom vans for some reason.
[08:23:09] <jdh> me + my gear is a lot of weiht
[08:23:43] <PetefromTn> I hear ya I am like 220 lbs and the gear adds another forty or so right I can't remember
[08:24:03] <PetefromTn> Where do you live and dive?
[08:24:04] <jdh> more like another 100+ for mine sometimes
[08:24:15] <PetefromTn> Ya run duals?
[08:24:34] <jdh> mostly
[08:24:43] <PetefromTn> Deep diving?
[08:24:57] <jdh> I'm in wilmington, NC. head east on I40 and stop at the water.
[08:25:18] <jdh> deep is relative. I like long dives. Mainly I like having a lot of gas left at the end of the dive.
[08:25:20] <PetefromTn> Nice...
[08:25:39] <PetefromTn> Yeah I ran out a time or two enjoying the scenery LOL...
[08:25:56] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/pphfkoz
[08:26:01] <PetefromTn> Used to do a lot of drift diving off Palm Beach years ago. And sometimes down in the keys.
[08:26:07] <jdh> that's what I'm mostly copying from a friends boat
[08:26:12] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/pphfkoz
[08:26:41] <PetefromTn> Yeah I can picture it now. GAWD I miss Florida...
[08:27:25] <PetefromTn> I grew up snorkeling,diving,surfing, and Fishing along the coast....
[08:27:38] <jdh> and then you ended up in murville
[08:27:58] <PetefromTn> I even own a nacra Racing Catamaran that would be awesome off the beach down there LOL
[08:28:17] <PetefromTn> Yeah Freakin' Murrville. I gotta sell this house and get the hell outta here....
[08:28:42] <PetefromTn> Not that it is a bad place actually it is quite nice here but I just miss Florida.
[08:28:50] <jdh> that guy's ladder bracket is made out of 1/4" SS, but the guy that made it had a waterjet
[08:29:34] <PetefromTn> You probably could mill 1/4 inch stainless plate I watched a video of a guy milling a stainless plate on an X2 on youtube LOL
[08:29:52] <PetefromTn> Stainless is a beotch tho...
[08:30:26] <PetefromTn> That Flycutter I just made is all stainless and it was a LOT easier on the Cincinatti that is for sure...
[08:32:06] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/ngva8wo
[08:32:43] <jdh> guy that made his does beautiful work. But he's 200 miles away and expensive.
[08:33:08] <PetefromTn> Bought some decent spiral point taps at Fastenal the other day. Went in there to buy a couple drills and saw they had some, they even had some solid carbide endmills. The quality seemed pretty good and they cut smooth.
[08:34:04] <jdh> I don't think I can buy endmills anywhere here.
[08:34:16] <jdh> fastenal in kville or mville?
[08:34:22] <PetefromTn> Honestly Stainless is my favorite to weld. It is very easy for me.
[08:34:45] <PetefromTn> Maryville...actually the shop is about ten minutes from my house, convenient.
[08:35:05] <jdh> he has waterjet cut lots of odd SS parts for people that dive. They look great.
[08:35:36] <jdh> there is a fastenal here, wonder if they have endmills/etc
[08:35:41] <PetefromTn> Waterjet is nice for certain things
[08:36:09] <jdh> 100 SS 1/4-20 nuts from fastenal cost less than 8 from the hardware store
[08:36:10] <PetefromTn> Check them out. They carry some real nice Morse drill bits which is why I go there.
[08:37:13] <PetefromTn> Oh yeah they are reasonable I think. We have a shop here called Maryville Fastener and I typically go there for hardware when I need something right now and every time I go in there the prices are crazier and crazier.
[08:37:31] <jdh> do you use helium for tig?
[08:37:40] <PetefromTn> Incidentally the Endmills and taps are their Own Fastenal brand..
[08:38:03] <PetefromTn> No.. mostly Argon.
[08:38:13] <PetefromTn> Some things Argon mix..
[08:38:42] <jdh> wonderd what prices were there.
[08:39:09] <PetefromTn> Prices for what?
[08:39:32] <jdh> friend got 2 300ft bottles the other day. The 'price' had dropped backed to $89. But then they added a $23 'surcharge' and $7 hazmat + something else
[08:39:37] <jdh> helium prices
[08:40:01] <PetefromTn> Never needed helium yet..but that sounds expensive as hell.
[08:41:32] <PetefromTn> I gotta get a for sale sign on this sucker here... I need a florida house LOL.
[08:49:40] <skunkworks> we have a co2 laser here. High use gas is helium. The department has been complaining about the price
[08:51:07] <jdh> we get two trailer-tanks/week of Helium here for welding
[08:51:23] <jdh> I'm hoping they get a better price than I do for a single bottle
[09:07:13] <PetefromTn> According to my cam software it should take 36 minutes to machine that plate. Going pretty slow. I gotta inside profile the larger circle with a 3/8 endmill leaving a large 1" thick slug leftover I am a bit nervous about but I think it will work. I always hate when you leave a part to drop off on the interior of a cut and it vibrates against the cutter just before it drops down. Always afraid it will bind up. The holes are
[09:07:13] <PetefromTn> so large tho that pocketing it would take awhile and I might be able to use th slugs left over for something else
[09:20:41] <cradek> PetefromTn: much better to use a larger mill at first and convert the inside completely to chips
[09:23:47] <PetefromTn> cradek: Yeah I know but this is a bit piece and it is 1" thick.. I could use the material
[09:24:13] <cradek> yeah 1" is worth saving
[09:24:36] <ssi> PetefromTn: maybe drill out the perimeter first so you have less to bite through when it parts it off
[09:24:45] <cradek> sometimes for an inside feature I cut all except the bottom .010 or so, and then whack the center piece with a dead-blow hammer
[09:25:05] <cradek> then you can do the finishing cut, or often can just deburr it manually
[09:25:21] <ssi> that's a good idea too... or since it's so big, leave a couple of .010 thick "tabs" that connect the island
[09:25:22] <PetefromTn> That's not a bad idea actually...
[09:25:35] <cradek> it works surprisingly well
[09:26:28] <PetefromTn> I thought about the tabs idea but I programmed a finish pass after that to go thru..I suppose I could add tabs to it as well and clean them up with a sander.
[09:27:06] <PetefromTn> Just really wanted a nice snug fit on the router body and a smooth surface all around.
[09:27:32] <cradek> sounds like the microscope mount I need to make (I might bore the inside though)
[09:37:04] <PetefromTn> I would bore it but it is like more than 4" diameter and I sold my boring head with the old mill so I am screwed....LOL
[10:54:42] <JT-Shop> PCW: can I drive a G203V stepper drive from the 7i77 for my rotary axis?
[11:02:20] <pcw_home> Well you need at least 2 outputs but theres really only one free (the sserial xmit line on the expansion port)
[11:02:52] <JT-Shop> ok
[11:03:50] <pcw_home> Probably have to use the other 5I25 connector
[11:05:04] <JT-Shop> can I drive the Gecko straight from the second 5i25 connector or do I need a daughter card?
[11:12:49] <JT-Shop> so a 7i78 and a cable and a flash should get me going
[11:34:09] <pcw_home> or a 7I85S or a 7I75
[11:45:32] <JT-Shop> DB25F-IDC26 CABLE is the cable from the 5i25 to the back of the computer?
[11:48:06] <JT-Shop> well crumb, I only have one slot in the back of that case and the 5i25 takes it up
[11:50:13] <pcw_home> Yeah and you are probably only using 3 or 4 encoder inputs/ If the 7I77 had an option for encoder /TTL output option this would be a lot nicer
[11:54:57] <pcw_home> Its probably also possible with a little Mickey Mousery with the 7I77 cable
[11:55:11] <JT-Shop> I'm using 3 for the axes and 1 for the spindle and 1 for the MPG
[11:55:45] <AdnanCloud> Is this the emc chat room :s... everytime i put in #emc this pops up but says linux... confused
[11:56:18] <pcw_home> you can also hang the MPG off the 7I77 field I/O
[11:57:00] <JT-Shop> that's an idea
[11:58:04] <JT-Shop> AdnanCloud: this is the former Enhanced Machine Controller and #emc redirects here... damn lawers suck
[11:59:58] <JT-Shop> so if it had that option I could drive the stepper drive from an encoder channel... neat idea
[12:01:11] <AdnanCloud> ah i see.. that doesnt sound like storage.. so probs in the wrong place :)
[12:01:40] <JT-Shop> yea, they stole our name and sued us to stop using it
[12:02:07] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: I have one unused encoder input, I"m only using 5
[12:06:33] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:10:01] <pcw_home> If you could move your MPG to the Field I/O (so you only use encoder inputs 0..3) that would free 3 wires
[12:10:03] <pcw_home> for step/dir/ena
[12:10:27] <pcw_home> but would still require cable mickey mousing
[12:11:59] <JT-Shop> ie. stripping out three wires from the cable?
[12:15:18] * JT-Shop notices it is lunch time
[12:42:29] <PCW> Yes you would have to separate out 3 wires
[13:41:07] <CaptHindsight> allwinner a20 pricing
[13:43:12] <CaptHindsight> PCW: ^^ the A20 is under $10
[13:43:57] <CaptHindsight> http://cubiestore.com/collections/allwinner-a20/products/cubieboard2
[14:22:24] <tjtr33> PCW, any opinion on the 'papilio' as an fpga trainer?
[14:22:25] <tjtr33> i was surprised to hear it built code from arduino's language ( i had imagined Hal2Vhdl in a discussion in Wichita )
[14:33:38] <muzaffar> Hi any one here?
[14:36:32] <tjtr33> i cant tell. the lights are off ;)
[14:38:13] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: hi, did you manage to stay above water?
[14:52:40] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, haha raining again here now, but basement is dry, and am well above the river
[16:13:52] <asdfasd> cheers
[16:13:53] <asdfasd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaK_FSBpYY
[16:16:39] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:36:57] <lomach> Hi everyone, can somebody help me understand the bias setting on a pid loop. I have a z axis which is hunting a lot and was wondering if using the bias setting might help as it is not counterbalanced and very heavy
[16:45:02] <JT-Shop> hunting is usually too much P
[16:48:19] <lomach> Hi JT-shop, I have tried reducing P but it does not help. I have set the drive so it doesnt drift when not in a pid loop and was just curious about the bias setting. It does work very well but you can see the hunting in halscope but its only a couple of counts
[16:50:28] <JT-Shop> I guess it can't hurt to try some bias to see what you get
[16:51:36] <lomach> Any advice on what to start with and should it be positive or negative
[16:52:17] <JT-Shop> never used it before myself
[16:52:58] <cradek> is it velocity mode? how much is it hunting?
[16:53:14] <lomach> i have searched but not really got enough info to give it a go.
[16:54:34] <lomach> it is only a few microns but i can see it in the surface finish,
[16:55:27] <cradek> do you have a plot of it to share?
[16:55:43] <cradek> what's the setup? is it velocity mode? tach?
[16:56:54] <lomach> not to hand, its in velocity mode with a resolver and emulated encoder, The x and y are fine but they are modern drives with 2500 line encoders
[16:58:16] <cradek> I'd like to know how much it's hunting (in encoder counts), and ideally what the plot looks like (is it regular? how fast?)
[16:58:32] <cradek> also what's your tuning - which pidff values you are using
[16:59:38] <lomach> i will take some screen shots tomorrow and get back on here, its only 1-2 counts and a regular but i didnt note the frequency
[17:02:11] <lomach> +cradek - can you tell me that if i set the zero offset on the servo drive so the motor does not move is the same as adjusting the bias
[17:03:46] <cradek> if you are getting 1 count oscillation at a regular rate, in a velocity loop without I gain, you will probably find that the offset knob on the amp will change its frequency and even stop it if it's adjusted perfectly
[17:04:11] <cradek> I wouldn't bother with bias in hal - just turn the knob on the amp
[17:04:27] <cradek> I don't know if they're the same but they sure might be
[17:04:57] <cradek> also note that whether it sits still when disconnected doesn't matter - you want it to sit still when your dac is commanding zero
[17:05:14] <cradek> just adjust it while watching the oscillation with halscope's roll mode
[17:09:09] <lomach> thanks for ideas I will give it a try, I was thinking that the when the pid loop is introduced it was offset in some way causing the oscillations.
[17:10:35] <cradek> if it's really just one count, yeah that's probably all that's happening - the amp creeps very slowly, until it gets one count of error, which pid then corrects, then the error is gone, so pid output goes back to zero, then the amp creeps again
[17:11:08] <cradek> beware deadband makes this worse - it just makes it creep farther each time
[17:11:25] <cradek> also I gain makes it worse
[17:12:26] <lomach> Is it possible then that my analogue output is not zero when enabled, I tried deadband a while ago and am sure it didnt help. This is only fine tuning though
[17:13:13] <cradek> positively, every real output will have some offset, that's why the amp has a knob
[17:14:23] <cradek> depending on which dac you use and where you hook up your ground etc etc you'll get a different offset
[17:16:23] <lomach> im using the 5i20 7i33 7i77 setup, You have given me enough info/inspiration to investigate it further so thanks for that
[17:16:40] <cradek> welcome
[17:16:48] <cradek> come back with plots if you still have trouble :-)
[17:18:30] <lomach> I will work on it tomorrow and let you know, feeling a bit more positive about it though
[22:32:21] <liznoyine> 123
[22:32:25] <liznoyine> 456
[23:27:01] <tjtr33> plz check my math: the meeting tomorrow is 1600 gmt, and my hometown Chicago is -5 , so is that 11>AM< to me?
[23:42:15] <Tom_itx> Chicago (U.S.A. - Illinois) Saturday, June 29, 2013 at 11:00:00 AM CDT
[23:42:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20130629T16&p1=0&p2=64
[23:52:33] <tjtr33> thx, i didnt believe the google result. I was surprised at the resulting 'nice middle of day for USA people', thx for confirmation