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[02:12:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
[04:20:34] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:06:40] <plasma_ger> hi im fighting with the second parport card
[05:06:55] <plasma_ger> cat /proc/ioports | grep parport shoes the system internal
[05:07:20] <plasma_ger> if i edit the "/etc/modprobe.d/parport_pc
[05:08:00] <plasma_ger> option parport_pc io=0x2048 then it shoes the new one after restart
[05:08:07] <plasma_ger> but how do i get both
[05:08:20] <plasma_ger> parport0 and parport1
[05:08:55] <plasma_ger> or do i not need them in the cat /proc/ioports | grep parport
[05:10:34] <RyanS> carbide insert lathe tools - is the process of selecting which tools which job different to traditional hss and brazed tip tools
[05:10:57] <RyanS> Which has more choice]
[05:11:32] <archivist> they are just choices
[05:11:47] <archivist> use the right tool for the job
[05:13:08] <plasma_ger> as the loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 out 0x2048 in " will do the job on its own
[05:13:58] <plasma_ger> as only parport0 showes up in the modeprobe but lspci -v got the card
[05:17:12] <RyanS> Do you have to have a wider range of hss tools than carbide to turn a given part
[05:17:40] <RyanS> I'm talking about manual lathes
[05:17:53] <archivist> ryan_turner, question makes no sense
[05:19:18] <archivist> RyanS, you need to read some docs on tool geometry
[08:30:45] <Jymmm> alex_joni yo
[10:22:02] <Tecan> todays the day
[10:22:14] <Tecan> i get my repstrap printing hopefully
[10:26:10] <fragalot> pics
[10:29:22] <Tecan> pics ?
[10:29:41] <Tecan> its the hotend that slows a guy down
[10:31:16] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/ZQ1k3n5.jpg old one
[10:33:50] <fragalot> Neat
[10:34:11] <fragalot> first thought was that you used a drawer as the Y :P
[10:36:05] <Tecan> yeah that might not work so well
[10:36:55] <fragalot> it could
[10:36:57] <Tecan> those wider bearing drawr slides would work
[10:37:08] <Tecan> not the wheeld ones
[10:37:27] <Tecan> theres too much angle and tipping points on one
[10:37:28] <fragalot> ofcourse
[11:13:52] <eric_unterhausen> my mother in law got a phone call saying her computer has been hacked
[11:14:14] <eric_unterhausen> kicking off a panic attack that is going to end up with a scammer getting some of her money, I can tell
[11:17:30] <Valen> moral of the story is be the scammer
[11:17:40] <Valen> I have been waiting 30 minutes for a windows machine to reboot
[11:17:48] <Valen> currently its installing update 1 of 9
[11:17:57] <Valen> its only the PDC so youknow, nothing important
[11:18:09] <Valen> oh and did i mention it was 2:00AM?
[11:18:12] <eric_unterhausen> that happened to me the other day, I needed to move a computer to do an experiment
[11:18:40] <eric_unterhausen> and it did that update without asking
[11:18:58] <eric_unterhausen> I thought I had it set to only do updates when I say it's ok
[11:19:33] <eric_unterhausen> when you restart, it continues to install and then reboots
[11:19:40] <eric_unterhausen> and that next boot is very slow too
[11:22:35] <Valen> the question is do i leave it be or what
[11:22:55] <eric_unterhausen> I really don't think it would be a good idea to interrupt
[11:23:07] <Valen> bigger question is do i go to bed
[11:23:15] <eric_unterhausen> I would
[11:23:23] <archivist> mine died mid update and it took a while to clean up after
[11:23:27] <eric_unterhausen> it's not that long total, maybe a half an hour
[11:23:39] <Valen> there is like 20kbyte/sec of disk activity going on
[11:23:41] <eric_unterhausen> although I have a relatively fast computer
[11:23:50] <Valen> idle cpu
[11:23:59] <Valen> its been going for half an hour already
[11:24:07] <archivist> the recent stuff is effin slow
[11:24:53] <eric_unterhausen> I think power saving has ruined computers
[11:25:11] <eric_unterhausen> Intel and AMD should work on making the wakeup period much less
[11:25:18] <archivist> windows has contributed to a large extent
[11:25:30] <archivist> large/most
[11:25:35] <Valen> my missus and my computers both boot in <10 seconds
[11:25:36] <archivist> ALL
[11:25:44] <Valen> windows 7 vs 12.04
[11:25:50] <Valen> mine is quicker though ;->
[11:26:03] <eric_unterhausen> my computer boots win 7 pretty darn fast
[11:26:37] <eric_unterhausen> or it did before this update, I will reserve judgment until I start using it monday
[11:26:43] <archivist> I am a vista/7/8 free zone :)
[11:26:58] <eric_unterhausen> work computer pretty much requires win 7
[11:27:11] <eric_unterhausen> I do have linux on some computers
[11:28:23] <eric_unterhausen> if the linux guys would stop having changes for the sake of change, I could be more enthusiastic about making everything work
[11:29:00] <eric_unterhausen> but I have been royally screwed working with linux in ways that mr. softy wouldn't dream of
[11:30:05] <archivist> one way around that is dont upgrade when they suggest :)
[11:30:47] <eric_unterhausen> public networks require a certain amount of updating
[11:31:21] <eric_unterhausen> the IT guys do security probes on a regular basis
[11:32:35] <Valen> nope its stuffed
[11:32:45] <Valen> eventid 1001 windows update failure
[11:33:13] <Valen> 10.04 is still in secrurity updates
[11:33:17] <Valen> will be till 2015
[11:33:18] <eric_unterhausen> you are making me feel better about my experience, that would have been a disaster for me
[11:34:01] <eric_unterhausen> I'm moving our web server to centos, current version has support for the next 10 years or something ridiculous
[11:34:04] <Valen> the unity crap is crap though
[11:34:22] <Valen> I have just tried kubuntu on my laptop, it seems nice
[11:34:36] <eric_unterhausen> doesn't matter for the server, we just have a wiki and disk storage on it
[11:34:58] <eric_unterhausen> and code repository
[11:35:23] <Valen> i just don't like rpm
[11:35:28] <Valen> though its probably changed
[11:35:54] <eric_unterhausen> I grew to absolutely hate fedora, so there is that
[11:36:04] <eric_unterhausen> but mostly because they tested nothing
[11:36:18] <Valen> ok PDC is running again at least
[11:36:30] <Valen> screw this crap I should have been in bed 2 and a half hours ago
[11:36:45] <Valen> still if this doesn't motivate me to spool up a secondary domain controller ;->
[11:36:52] <Valen> night all
[11:46:40] <Tom_itx> don't sleep, windows will do wicked things when you turn your head
[11:50:45] <archivist> windows does wicked things when you are watching it too!
[11:51:05] <eric_unterhausen> wish I didn't live 3.5 hour drive from mother in law's house, I would just go fix the darn computer
[11:51:31] <archivist> get her to deliver it
[11:51:39] <Tom_itx> but if you go, you will have to stay for a while
[11:51:44] <eric_unterhausen> I offered that
[11:51:51] <Tom_itx> visit and have tea etc
[11:51:55] <eric_unterhausen> said I would fix if she mailed it
[11:52:43] <archivist> knowing how long it can take...and I like a secondary box to look up problems
[11:52:57] <Tom_itx> working for a relative always takes at least 2x as long as it should
[11:53:34] <archivist> depends how much one cares for the users data
[11:56:29] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2013-06-storage-terabytes-dvd.html and still not much worth watching
[11:59:32] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, I doubt she has generated much data. Would like to just wipe the hard drive and be done with it
[11:59:54] <eric_unterhausen> probably go in and look for anything she generated
[12:00:40] <archivist> when I ask users they usually claim to have little/nothing but often there is a lot more lurking they didnt realise
[12:03:01] <eric_unterhausen> I wish she had gotten another laptop
[12:03:19] <eric_unterhausen> mailing a desktop starts to be a thesis in and of itself
[12:14:31] <eric_unterhausen> rebooting to make sure my usb stick is bootable
[12:15:58] <Tom_itx> i try to save favorites, email and the personal directory. from there it's good bye charlie
[12:16:15] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:16:25] <Tom_itx> Ich Guck Live !
[12:17:05] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:17:24] <IchGuckLive> 24h lemans what a race
[12:17:40] <Tom_itx> is that the one someone died in?
[12:18:03] <Tom_itx> missed it but someone said a driver died in a race
[12:19:55] <IchGuckLive> yes after 9min in race
[12:20:21] <IchGuckLive> he walked out of the car but then died in hospital from inner errors
[12:21:16] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orB7ev0Iwy4
[12:21:18] <Tecan> (orB7ev0Iwy4) "24 Hours of Le Mans Allan Simonsen Huge Fatal Crash" by "2013Motorsport" is "Sports" - Length: 0:00:18
[12:23:25] <IchGuckLive> 800k hits on this vid so someone is getting benefit out of this Shame on them
[12:28:56] <eric_unterhausen> need more computers, rebooting this one to see if a flash drive is bootable is annoying
[12:33:18] <CaptHindsight> eric_unterhausen: as an option the ASRock E350M1 has coreboot support, so you won't have that problem
[12:33:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157228
[12:33:47] <eric_unterhausen> too late, can't return this one
[12:34:09] <eric_unterhausen> plus I want a pci slot
[12:36:58] <CaptHindsight> that's the problem with a broken BIOS, you have to hope that the vendor will fix it
[12:37:23] <CaptHindsight> I'd send it back since the BIOS is broken
[12:37:26] <eric_unterhausen> not surprisingly, when I search for a bios upgrade/downgrade, gigabyte can't find my mobo
[12:38:09] <eric_unterhausen> i ordered it last october, don't think newegg is going to take too kindly to the fact that I haven't tried it until now
[12:39:04] <CaptHindsight> contact gigabyte
[12:39:20] <eric_unterhausen> I sent them an email, waiting until tomorrow
[12:39:43] <CaptHindsight> is the board still in production?
[12:39:52] <eric_unterhausen> dont' think so
[12:39:59] <eric_unterhausen> short lived product
[12:40:08] <eric_unterhausen> it's a known issue
[12:40:33] <CaptHindsight> and if everyone lets them get away with it they will just ignore it
[12:40:34] <eric_unterhausen> which I didn't find out about until now. Blog post about it in 2010 regarding this mobo
[12:41:33] <CaptHindsight> that the problem with closed BIOS, there is little you can do to fix it
[12:41:55] <eric_unterhausen> industrial computers cost most/have worst bios
[12:42:03] <eric_unterhausen> this is a little better
[12:42:45] <CaptHindsight> but they will never use coreboot in volume since the BIOS vendors would lose out on $ and you can't hide backdoors or malware in it
[12:45:45] <eric_unterhausen> I never quite understood it, but I guess the adaptation kit is fairly easy for commercial bios
[12:45:57] <eric_unterhausen> if you don't care about your customers, that is
[12:46:24] <eric_unterhausen> google found the upgrade page, only oem bios for this board
[12:46:26] <eric_unterhausen> no updates
[12:47:55] <CaptHindsight> sometimes we get stuck with a few bits of hardware that don't perform as expected
[12:48:24] <eric_unterhausen> I should just give up and use a cd
[12:48:50] <CaptHindsight> buggy BIOS is #1 with mainboards
[12:49:41] <CaptHindsight> they might work just fine with Win but have odd issues with Linux and ACPI
[12:50:08] <eric_unterhausen> I bet oems are not happy they can't boot from usb
[12:50:17] <eric_unterhausen> but I don't know for sure how they do it
[12:51:00] <eric_unterhausen> going to go try the "insert usb at magic moment" trick
[12:51:13] <eric_unterhausen> now that I know it's bootable
[12:51:46] <CaptHindsight> I have lots of problems with Gigagyte boards and USB
[12:52:47] <CaptHindsight> really sensitive to ESD or mounting a cell phone
[12:55:57] <mpictor> eric_unterhausen: you can't get a fairly new gigabyte board to boot from usb?
[12:56:25] <IchGuckLive> is it a ga525
[12:57:26] <mpictor> I had problems with Linux and the LAPIC (?) but never with booting from any media - and mine is efi
[12:58:13] <mpictor> oops, this one is MSI - nevermind
[12:59:47] <eric_unterhausen> 2012 gigabyte e350n
[13:00:57] <eric_unterhausen> ga-e350n to be more specific
[13:01:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3681#ov ?
[13:01:47] <eric_unterhausen> not that, the one without usb3 and a pci slot
[13:02:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.gigabyte.us/products/list.aspx?s=42&jid=13&p=2&v=25
[13:02:29] <CaptHindsight> heh, they made a few with the same name
[13:02:33] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128561
[13:02:52] <CaptHindsight> E-350D APU AMD A45 FCH
[13:03:10] <mpictor> eric_unterhausen: have you read
http://chromasoft.blogspot.com/2010/10/solving-dreaded-gigabyte-wont-boot-from.html
[13:03:15] <eric_unterhausen> strangely, their faq does not address the well-known boot issue problem
[13:03:25] <glowplug> Good afternoon. =)
[13:03:29] <mpictor> one commenter says a specific brand of usb stick will work
[13:03:43] <eric_unterhausen> mpictor -- that is the "insert the usb drive at magic moment" fix I mentioned above
[13:04:36] <mpictor> he says he doesn't have to insert at any specific time
[13:04:47] <eric_unterhausen> i don't trust random commentors that want me to go buy a new flash drive
[13:04:53] <mpictor> true
[13:05:08] <eric_unterhausen> sandisk almost surely changed the design since then anyway
[13:05:19] <mpictor> yea
[13:05:31] <mpictor> do you have several different ones you can try?
[13:05:41] <eric_unterhausen> not without pain
[13:05:46] <mpictor> ah
[13:05:54] <eric_unterhausen> have tried two so far
[13:06:00] <eric_unterhausen> both boot nicely on real computers
[13:06:02] <mpictor> I'm wondering if it isn't the brand, but rather how they set up the partition
[13:06:21] <eric_unterhausen> there is some suggestion that you need a very specific format
[13:06:34] <eric_unterhausen> the mobo actually was accessing the drive given the flashing led
[13:06:57] <glowplug> Is anyone around who is familiar with serial kinematics?
[13:07:15] <mpictor> maybe find someone with that model of stick (or a working stick) and see if they'll email you a compressed image of the partition
[13:09:07] <glowplug> Or could explain how the Italians did this?
http://www.cncitalia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15047&hilit=robot
[13:09:52] <eric_unterhausen> isnt there a puma kins in linuxcnc?
[13:10:30] <glowplug> There is a generic serial kinematics module and a serial one. But only two people on earth have it working that I can find. =.
[13:10:40] <glowplug> *and a puma one
[13:11:36] <glowplug> Is it simply that nobody has the hardware and the modules work fine?
[13:11:50] <eric_unterhausen> I have the hardware, but it's in pieces
[13:11:52] <eric_unterhausen> :)
[13:11:55] <mpictor> aren't there some opengl demos of scara, puma, and or gantry kins available in the simulator build?
[13:11:55] <glowplug> Haha
[13:12:03] <eric_unterhausen> never to work again, I'm afraid
[13:12:15] <glowplug> I found simulations of SCARA bots in the documentation.
[13:12:54] <glowplug> The puma module will work for any 6-axis articulated robot?
[13:14:00] <mpictor> no, only for a puma type robot
[13:14:17] <mpictor> I don't remember what puma/scara stands for, try wikipedia
[13:14:36] <glowplug> Ok thats what I thought. I can't find examples of any english speakers with working 6-axis serial robots.
[13:14:54] <glowplug> Is it really that hard to set up?
[13:15:04] <archivist> have you looked at the vismach examples/simulations
[13:15:42] <mpictor> pretty sure alex_joni has videos of one he set up
[13:16:08] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Vismach
[13:17:25] <glowplug> That I had not found! It seems to be a PUMA robot however. Unless I'm missing something?
[13:17:44] <archivist> scroll down :)
[13:18:08] <archivist> there are others and may be more in the download
[13:18:13] <glowplug> Nevermind! I know this robot!
[13:18:16] <eric_unterhausen> darn it, already fat16
[13:18:33] <glowplug> Yes that was the other of the two examples I could find. One from Italy and this one.
[13:18:49] <eric_unterhausen> what's wrong with those kins?
[13:18:50] <glowplug> Apparently this is a 6-axis PUMA
[13:19:07] <mpictor> there are both puma and scara on that page
[13:19:15] <glowplug> Nothing other than absolutely no implimentation details for either robot. xD
[13:19:47] <archivist> just look in its directory
[13:19:48] <glowplug> This is where I got stuck. I found two examples and both have ZERO information on how it was done.
[13:19:49] <eric_unterhausen> it's not the kins I would worry about so much, wiring it up would be scara
[13:19:52] <eric_unterhausen> scary
[13:20:13] <glowplug> The mechanics of it are extremely scary. But if the software isn't ready its scary AND a waste of time. Haha
[13:20:40] <archivist> the hal etc will be in the samples and the vismach directories
[13:21:03] <mpictor> if the sim works, it's just a matter of changing it to match your machine
[13:21:44] <glowplug> My google-fu must be bad. Where are the directories for the 6-axis bot?
[13:22:03] <glowplug> I see the two links which go directly to YouTube videos.
[13:22:25] <mpictor> two links at the top of the page
[13:22:30] <archivist> either look at the git repo or download
[13:22:53] <mpictor> oops, 404
[13:23:08] <eric_unterhausen> mine is in ~/git/linuxcnc/configs/vismach
[13:23:21] <mpictor> clone the repo with git and search for files named vismach*
[13:23:58] <glowplug> Thanks for the help guys! Hopefully I can figure this out. =)
[13:24:01] <archivist> change emc2 in those links to linuxcnc...two I must have missed :)
[13:24:41] <archivist> I should run my link scanner on the wiki again
[13:26:35] <eric_unterhausen> getting the cd out of my desktop was easier than I though, didn't even have power
[13:26:56] <eric_unterhausen> now I hope I can find livecd
[13:28:25] <archivist> eric_unterhausen, took me a few days on my last PC build from old parts, finding CD, memory , stuff that would work....then latency....
[13:29:01] <archivist> redo from start, rinse repeat till bored
[13:29:20] <eric_unterhausen> I always like the "try to find cd drive that will read a cd" goatrope
[13:29:57] <eric_unterhausen> there is a reason why they cost less than $20, and it's not because the technology is solid
[13:30:12] <archivist> now the lathe PC needs a new psu as it emits a huge amount of RFI
[13:30:25] <glowplug> http://tinyurl.com/krvtoxt
[13:30:51] <glowplug> These files?
[13:31:58] <archivist> tinyurl is a waste of time, we wont bite
[13:32:02] <glowplug> What kind of system do you have archivist?
[13:32:08] <glowplug> Won't bite?
[13:32:26] <archivist> or
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/puma;h=36d96d05d578cd76cf7468eb55b793410e920435;hb=HEAD
[13:32:54] <glowplug> Alright so these files will get a running vismach simulation of a 6-axis robot.
[13:33:02] <archivist> I have two a lathe and a 5 axis mill
[13:33:03] <glowplug> And your saying that the kinematics are easy to configure?
[13:33:17] <glowplug> I mean what kind of PC machine. =)
[13:33:35] <archivist> not saying that for puma as I have never done it
[13:34:02] <glowplug> Only two people have that I can tell. Haha
[13:34:36] <archivist> I think two could be wrong :)
[13:34:44] <glowplug> I'm asking because a great PSU to use in situations like that are the 120-160 watt nano-PSU's that use external 12-volt switched supplies.
[13:34:56] <archivist> I have seen other related questions
[13:35:01] <glowplug> I got a few from china (aliexpress) for $13 each (120 watts).
[13:35:59] <glowplug> http://www.mini-itx.com/store/~picoPSU-120
[13:36:20] <glowplug> Like that. Except significantly cheaper. Great for linuxcnc systems. 8)
[13:37:22] <glowplug> Yeah I have found many discussions on the topic. But only two success stories. And a company who sells linuxcnc setups for big bucks including 6-axis. They aren't telling anybody anything. xD
[13:38:12] <eric_unterhausen> get the sim running, that's the first step
[13:38:24] <eric_unterhausen> you should be able to do that relatively quickly
[13:38:32] <eric_unterhausen> find where the linkage dimensions are kept
[13:39:00] <glowplug> I suppose anybody with a working sim can get a working robot. Good point. =)
[13:39:29] <eric_unterhausen> the sim is running on the same framework as the machine will run on
[13:39:44] <eric_unterhausen> it's something that a regular cnc control doesn't have, and it's a great feature
[13:40:16] <glowplug> ROS has this functionality. But for some disturbing reason it can't be used for milling. =/
[13:40:47] <eric_unterhausen> what arm do you have?
[13:40:49] <mpictor> glowplug: if you aren't familiar with python, just make one small change to the sim at a time; each time that it works, commit the changes to a git repo
[13:41:03] <eric_unterhausen> one of the shunk ones?
[13:41:07] <mpictor> then if you break it and can't figure out why, you can see what you did easily
[13:41:08] <eric_unterhausen> schunk?
[13:41:21] <glowplug> It's Python? Awesome! I'm not a python programmer but I am familiar enough with it to tinker. What luck. =)
[13:41:50] <eric_unterhausen> most of the machine control stuff is c
[13:42:05] <glowplug> I don't have a machine at the moment. I'm in the planning stages of building one similar to the build on Instructables.
[13:42:23] <glowplug> The "sexy 6-axis robot"
[13:42:33] <eric_unterhausen> in which case, the sim is all you have
[13:42:35] <glowplug> Except he uses expenses proprietary machine controller software. O.o
[13:42:41] <mpictor> you're right, the things that need to be changed for a specific robot will be in C
[13:42:41] <glowplug> *Expensive
[13:43:26] <glowplug> So I need to mess with C code? Are you referring to the generic serial kinematics module?
[13:44:22] <mpictor> it's been a long time since I looked at the kins, but I suspect you'll have to make changes for your arm lengths
[13:44:42] <mpictor> and perhaps other things like range of motion
[13:45:10] <glowplug> I'm extremely lucky that there is a simulator then. Otherwise I might kill myself and others calibrating it....
[13:45:24] <mpictor> that's what clones are for
[13:45:35] <eric_unterhausen> just run the motors not hooked up
[13:46:07] <mpictor> what eric says. and/or use safety switch mats that stop the robot when someone steps near it
[13:46:08] <glowplug> Well first I'm going to get a sim running of my standard cartesian mill and go from there.
[13:46:12] <eric_unterhausen> in fact, once you figure out how to run the motors, you can just run it like a puma
[13:46:40] <glowplug> The puma modules WILL work for a 6-axis machine?
[13:47:05] <eric_unterhausen> they will work great on a pile of motors on a bench
[13:47:14] <glowplug> Haha
[13:47:17] <eric_unterhausen> that have no physical linkages attached
[13:47:37] <glowplug> I get what you are saying more clearly now. Unconnected to the articulating parts. Not unconnected electrically
[13:47:40] <glowplug> That I can do. )
[13:47:40] <eric_unterhausen> you have to break the problem down into steps
[13:47:58] <glowplug> And also makes a lot more sense.
[13:47:59] <glowplug> O_O
[13:48:26] <glowplug> I suppose we all have dreams of plugging in a fully assembled 6-axis arm and having it magically work... right?
[13:48:40] <eric_unterhausen> although spinning motors is a known terminal point for many cnc efforts
[13:48:56] <eric_unterhausen> that's what estop is for
[13:49:46] <glowplug> Absolutely. I will probably put a hard RPM limit into my motor controllers too.
[13:50:06] <eric_unterhausen> although estop should be well tested before hooking something like that up
[13:50:13] <glowplug> Agreed. 8)
[13:50:19] <eric_unterhausen> the robot I bought would only move in a plane
[13:50:36] <eric_unterhausen> the researchers running it had disabled rotation
[13:50:44] <glowplug> Out of curiosity what kind of robot do you have?
[13:50:49] <eric_unterhausen> GE
[13:50:54] <eric_unterhausen> p50
[13:52:16] <glowplug> It is an older model?
[13:52:25] <eric_unterhausen> '90s
[13:52:46] <glowplug> Very cool!
[13:52:49] <eric_unterhausen> I bought it surplus
[13:52:59] <eric_unterhausen> I just bought it for the motors
[13:53:05] <Tom_itx> what do you do with it?
[13:53:29] <eric_unterhausen> I never intended to do anything with it, it needs 40 amp three phase to run
[13:53:40] <glowplug> I would love to have one of those but my requirements are much smaller. I plan on using my robot for pick and place, pcb milling, laser soldering and other generic electronic tasks that don't require much space.
[13:53:50] <eric_unterhausen> it's far too big for home use
[13:54:23] <eric_unterhausen> when assembled, it had something like a 12 foot envelope
[13:54:28] <glowplug> O_O
[13:54:32] <Tom_itx> it won't hold your coffee cup?
[13:54:38] <Tom_itx> :)
[13:54:52] <glowplug> I would be too afraid of it putting the coffee cup through my torso. =/
[13:55:08] <eric_unterhausen> that was my fear too, that's why I never intended to power it up
[13:55:25] <eric_unterhausen> cost me $125
[13:55:31] <Tom_itx> wow
[13:55:37] <Tom_itx> probably more than that to move it
[13:55:46] <eric_unterhausen> moved it with another person
[13:56:10] <eric_unterhausen> there was another robot I wanted to buy with hydraulic actuation. That would have been expensive
[13:56:13] <Tom_itx> you can get that back in scrap metal
[13:56:20] <glowplug> $125!!!
[13:56:30] <glowplug> Unbelievable
[13:56:32] <eric_unterhausen> they were pissed
[13:56:47] <glowplug> Who else would use it? The software is impossible to get working! Haha
[13:56:59] <eric_unterhausen> it was self-contained
[13:57:06] <glowplug> Oh with the controller built-in
[13:57:08] <eric_unterhausen> pretty sure it was running
[13:57:12] <glowplug> That is especially useless to anyone.
[13:57:18] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, I got the cabinet
[13:57:24] <glowplug> That is crazy
[13:57:39] <eric_unterhausen> I'm using it to hold my computer for linuxcnc
[13:57:40] <glowplug> The only thing that could command it was the original software though correct?
[13:57:41] <eric_unterhausen> :)
[13:58:03] <eric_unterhausen> I don't know if they had modified it to use a PC or not
[13:58:14] <glowplug> God knows what they used in the 90s...
[13:58:30] <eric_unterhausen> it was in a university lab
[13:58:44] <eric_unterhausen> actually, I watched them take it out and waited for it to go on auction
[13:59:13] <eric_unterhausen> now they don't do those auctions, I think, they put everything on ebay
[13:59:22] <glowplug> So you ended up getting a pile of 5-10kw AC motors?
[13:59:36] <eric_unterhausen> dc brushed servomotors
[13:59:43] <glowplug> Ahhhh
[13:59:46] <eric_unterhausen> I never figured out why it drew so much power
[14:00:05] <glowplug> They probably had badass gearboxes though. Too bad they were brushed. =(
[14:00:35] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, brushless were just coming on line back then
[14:04:33] <glowplug> I've only ever run this on Xenomai. It will let me launch linuxcnc without a real time kernel right?
[14:04:46] <glowplug> I'm going to attempt this on my laptop which doesn't have a RTK.
[14:04:49] <eric_unterhausen> sim config
[14:05:18] <glowplug> Ahh I see.
[14:07:31] <glowplug> Thanks again for the help. =)
[14:07:57] <glowplug> No way I would have gotten on the right track from google. Because I've been reading nonstop and was still lost. xD
[14:08:54] <glowplug> On a somewhat related note. Do you know anyone with MTConnect working?
[14:11:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dyx0ddg8GM&feature=youtu.be what do these sell for used? in decent shape
[14:11:40] <Tecan> (8Dyx0ddg8GM) "Boyar Shultz Surface Grinder 6x12" by "JamesRussin" is "People" - Length: 0:03:17
[14:17:14] <eric_unterhausen> CaptHindsight, I wouldn't pay much
[14:17:28] <eric_unterhausen> but I'm guessing people want $5k
[14:17:46] <CaptHindsight> actually a few around here for $400-500
[14:17:56] <eric_unterhausen> clapped out?
[14:18:19] <eric_unterhausen> grinders have a hard life
[14:51:17] <glowplug> Alright! I've got a PUMA simulation up and running. 8)
[14:51:30] <glowplug> Thanks again Eric. =)
[14:51:40] <glowplug> Now I need to start hacking at the definitions I suppose?
[14:51:49] <eric_unterhausen> most recent cd I can find is 8.04. I have BDI :)
[14:51:52] <archivist> yesum
[14:56:37] <glowplug> You guys are working on a new live CD?
[14:57:17] <eric_unterhausen> no point to that atm
[14:57:26] <eric_unterhausen> the rt kernels need to catch up
[15:01:13] <glowplug> Xenomai has crashed on me a few times. It's not THAT bad though. xD
[15:01:23] <glowplug> Have you guys considered Arch for the live iso?
[15:01:51] <Tom_itx> you should be bringing that up to the guys at the fest probably
[15:02:29] <Tom_itx> i was watching them for a bit 'discuss' 'direction'
[15:04:44] <Tom_itx> all sorts of scribble notes hanging on the walls
[15:06:53] <danielfalck> Tom_itx: any discussion of licenses?
[15:08:20] <Tom_itx> i wasn't able to stick around long enough to catch much about that
[15:09:13] <glowplug> Discussing direction. That sounds like band problems. O.o
[15:09:35] <glowplug> I would be happy to contribute an Arch live distro if nobody uses it no big deal. 8)
[15:20:50] <eric_unterhausen> there have been multiple live cds in the past
[15:24:49] <CaptHindsight> glowplug: we had it working on Arch a couple of years ago
[15:26:01] <CaptHindsight> it ended up taking up too much time to support the constant rolling updates
[15:27:37] <glowplug> I'm surprised anyone would do full an syu on a functional machine controller PC.
[15:27:43] <archivist> chasing the latest is really a waste of time
[15:28:10] <glowplug> Maybe it's just me but I would just leave it alone if it works!
[15:28:31] <archivist> my lathe is still on 6.06 and the mill is on 8.04
[15:28:32] <CaptHindsight> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/emc2/ it's still there
[15:29:00] <glowplug> Exactly. You can do the same with Arch. Just resist the urg to -syu. =)
[15:30:22] <CaptHindsight> seems it got to the point where there would be a patch to fix 6 problems that would break 7 other things
[15:31:31] <glowplug> A patch for LinuxCNC?
[15:31:57] <archivist> there is that same danger if linuxcnc starts using too many external libraries
[15:32:21] <CaptHindsight> no, just Arch in general
[15:32:37] <glowplug> The only real difference between Arch and lets say Ubuntu is that Arch users can't resist -syu. Ubuntu users need a new iso.
[15:33:03] <glowplug> Changing / updating software is a user decision.
[15:33:17] <CaptHindsight> now I recall, there was all this drama with arch on ARM
[15:33:48] <glowplug> ARM = Drama. But for our use aren't the real time kernels not there yet?
[15:34:41] <CaptHindsight> ARM is ahead of x86 now with Xenomai + kernel 3.8 and Linuxcnc
[15:35:13] <glowplug> That would be a huge plus for Arch in that case.
[15:35:29] <glowplug> Their ARM support / documentation is extremely good.
[15:36:29] <glowplug> I think a quick script to alert users attempting a -syu that it is a dangerous operation. That would clear up 99% of the problems.
[15:37:35] <CaptHindsight> whats the best way to get a "mirror" machined flat finish on 6061 aluminum?
[15:38:10] <CaptHindsight> maybe this?
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/how-get-best-mirror-machined-flat-finish-6061-aluminum-188221/
[15:47:55] <glowplug> I am having a seriously hard time with this simulation. =/
[15:49:02] <glowplug> What is the easiest way to move a part into the robots build area? Do I have to modify the gcode manually?
[15:49:48] <eric_unterhausen> CaptHindsight: you want optically flat, diamond turning on an air bearing
[15:49:54] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fML6VN88U_M
[15:49:55] <Tecan> (fML6VN88U_M) "Diamond Turning Copper" by "mdrlpsu" is "Tech" - Length: 0:05:25
[16:18:11] <eric_unterhausen> I hope brasero isn't screwing up the disk I just burned
[16:18:39] <eric_unterhausen> so far the score is one coaster, second try in progress
[16:19:54] <eric_unterhausen> brasero claims success, I'm reserving judgement
[16:27:38] <eric_unterhausen> that seems to be working better
[16:30:51] <CaptHindsight> K3B tends to work better
[16:30:51] <glowplug> I'm having some trouble with the 6-axis puma simulation. Does anyone know how to easily change the work area of this type of robot?
[16:31:02] <CaptHindsight> had lots of coasters produced by Brasero
[16:31:51] <eric_unterhausen> I turned the burn speed all the way down
[16:32:01] <eric_unterhausen> my experience with brasero is that it knows that it failed
[16:32:13] <eric_unterhausen> although it is real annoying about it
[16:32:40] <eric_unterhausen> glowplug: doubt that it's particularly easy
[16:33:03] <eric_unterhausen> my son burned the coaster on his windows machine
[16:33:11] <eric_unterhausen> I just need to get the system booting
[16:33:24] <glowplug> I think the work area is calculated based on the robot geometry and angles ect.
[16:33:53] <glowplug> I need to move that area around without modifying that information. Is that possible?
[16:35:59] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:39:59] <glowplug> This is crazy. I really can't figure out how to move the work area. This is why I try to stay away from software. O.o
[16:40:20] <eric_unterhausen> the work area is related to the geometry
[16:40:31] <eric_unterhausen> you might be able to limit it
[16:41:22] <eric_unterhausen> which config?
[16:41:41] <glowplug> I've never encountered this with my 3-axis. The starting point for my parts is always out of the robots bounds.
[16:41:49] <glowplug> I'm using the 6-axis Puma config.
[16:42:31] <glowplug> And I can't do a touch (its greyed out).
[16:45:15] <eric_unterhausen> did you look in the .ini files?
[16:45:54] <glowplug> I've moved into the ini files. O_O
[16:46:07] <glowplug> Theres nothing in there except robot geometry.
[16:46:23] <eric_unterhausen> are you using inches or metric
[16:46:24] <eric_unterhausen> ?
[16:46:37] <glowplug> Metric.
[16:46:43] <eric_unterhausen> use inches
[16:46:50] <glowplug> O_O
[16:47:16] <eric_unterhausen> metric is for people who don't want to make chips
[16:47:17] <eric_unterhausen> ;)
[16:47:28] <eric_unterhausen> just kidding, ini files are in inches
[16:47:41] <eric_unterhausen> you will have immediate success by changing systems
[16:47:41] <glowplug> Ohh OK. I only changed the Axis GUI view to metric.
[16:47:48] <glowplug> I didn't change any ini params.
[16:47:57] <glowplug> So thats not it.. unfortunately
[16:48:01] <eric_unterhausen> I know, but your workpiece is in metric, isn't it?
[16:48:45] <glowplug> Nope. Its a fresh text only part that says "lolwut" in the very bottom left of my work area.
[16:48:55] <glowplug> Which is apparently far to the top right of the robots work area
[16:49:12] <glowplug> With these settings it is physically impossible for a part to be in the robots envelope.
[16:49:56] <glowplug> The search terms "linuxcnc touch off greyed out / missing" turn up empty. O.o
[16:58:57] <glowplug> http://i.imgur.com/6s44vOP.png
[16:59:27] <glowplug> Also in that screenshot the robot is off so everything is greyed out. But touch off is greyed out when the robot is on also. =)
[17:04:57] <glowplug> This one is better.
http://i.imgur.com/qXCbPoI.png
[17:05:21] <glowplug> Even more interesting than that is the robot homes outside of its work area. O_o
[17:13:44] <eric_unterhausen> I see dimensions of 980 mm
[17:14:15] <glowplug> Thats just the view setting.
[17:14:22] <glowplug> If I switch it to inches everything stays the same. =(
[17:14:29] <eric_unterhausen> gcode is in english units
[17:14:29] <eric_unterhausen> ?
[17:14:38] <eric_unterhausen> says it's in metric
[17:14:44] <CaptHindsight> when cutting aluminum t-slot with a circular saw, what gives the cleanest cut? smaller dia more teeth vs large diameter small teeth
[17:14:46] <eric_unterhausen> down at the bottom of the screen
[17:15:10] <CaptHindsight> http://justsawblades.com/ten/alum.html
[17:15:25] <eric_unterhausen> CaptHindsight: I dunno, I used the blade from ace hardware and it worked fine
[17:15:33] <CaptHindsight> heh
[17:15:49] <CaptHindsight> or large dia blade with larger teeth
[17:16:18] <eric_unterhausen> this was on a hand saw 7 1/4"
[17:16:30] <eric_unterhausen> they tend to have smaller teeth and lots of them
[17:16:46] <eric_unterhausen> there may be some changes given the thickness
[17:17:05] <eric_unterhausen> I was cutting 3/4" plate
[17:17:12] <glowplug> Holy crap that does have an effect. Wow this thing is really going to force me to use standard?
[17:17:32] <glowplug> It's not quite fixed because I can't touch off still. But it did moved the part.
[17:17:34] <eric_unterhausen> no, but you will have less troubles if you use consistent units
[17:18:02] <eric_unterhausen> I don't know if metric is really fixed, it used to cause all sorts of troubles
[17:18:19] <eric_unterhausen> you certainly have to change your ini files to metric
[17:19:17] <eric_unterhausen> it's a g-code problem as much as anything
[17:19:53] <CaptHindsight> eric_unterhausen: did you make any of the fest in Wichita?
[17:20:18] <eric_unterhausen> no, too much going on to even think of it
[17:24:02] <CaptHindsight> eric_unterhausen: know any sources for high precision trunnion tables? this is for very light loads
[17:24:07] <Tom_itx> mhaberler lots of insight gained at the fest?
[17:26:02] <CaptHindsight> everyone there was pretty busy, some kept up with the mail list, but i didn't notice anyone on IRC
[17:27:36] <CaptHindsight> probably unstable network connection ^^
[17:28:45] <glowplug> I just noticed something. The title of the Axis GUI is "linuxcnc-hal-sim-hexapod" but I have the puma config loaded.
[17:28:54] <glowplug> That could be a problem....
[17:29:09] <eric_unterhausen> I noticed that too, but forgot to mention
[17:29:41] <glowplug> I'm going to wipe this and install the stable LinuxCNC. That could be a version 2.6 bug.
[17:29:56] <eric_unterhausen> no, it's coming from a config file
[17:30:13] <glowplug> Hmmm
[17:32:00] <glowplug> I think it might be cosmetic.
[17:32:05] <glowplug> "#+ Name of machine, for use with display, etc. MACHINE = LinuxCNC-HAL-SIM-HEXAPOD"
[17:32:27] <eric_unterhausen> copy paste error of no consequence
[17:32:40] <glowplug> Agreed.
[17:33:17] <glowplug> I'm 99% sure that the problem is that the 3 axis coordinates from my gcode are not being processed into serial kinematics.
[17:33:35] <glowplug> It keeps running into itself like a special education-bot.
[17:34:18] <eric_unterhausen> you are using puma, right?
[17:34:34] <glowplug> Yup. It's a 6-axis puma sim config.
[17:39:17] <glowplug> Linear move on line 9 would exceed joint 2's positive limit.
[17:39:31] <glowplug> This time my part is in standard and inside the work area.
[17:39:37] <glowplug> Robot is homed inside the work area.
[17:41:00] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like your workpiece goes outside the workspace to me
[17:43:27] <glowplug> I know but it's in there for sure this time. All kinds of other strange behavior too. A homing operation just causes axis 0 and 1 to rote 180 degrees.
[17:43:50] <glowplug> I'm absolutely positive there is no conversion from 3-axis to 6.
[17:43:53] <eric_unterhausen> I find that unsurprising
[17:44:12] <glowplug> I think it's clear why nobody has these things working. O_o
[17:44:42] <glowplug> If I left everything how it was it would be possible to generate gcode that operates this robot correctly. But it would be really really hard.
[17:44:53] <eric_unterhausen> alex joni does, but I think the puma kins are very old
[17:45:09] <glowplug> I have a strong feeling that they rewrote a lot of this stuff.
[17:45:23] <glowplug> Alex and the Italian guy.
[17:45:31] <eric_unterhausen> he would have contributed it back
[17:45:37] <eric_unterhausen> dunno about the Italian guy
[17:45:38] <glowplug> Hmm
[17:45:51] <glowplug> His is impressive to say the least.
[17:46:03] <glowplug> It picks up a plastic water bottle and pours it into a cup.
[17:46:23] <glowplug> Easy with ROS. Must have taken forever to write in gcode.
[17:47:05] <eric_unterhausen> did you search the emal list archives?
[17:47:46] <glowplug> I did briefly. Does Alex get on IRC very often?
[17:48:55] <eric_unterhausen> looks like andy pugh got the sim running and helped someone with it back in 2011
[17:50:08] <glowplug> Interesting! Do you have a link to the thread?
[17:52:07] <eric_unterhausen> I'm looking in my gmail account
[17:53:05] <eric_unterhausen> there was a thread about the serial kinematics config on 1/4/11 involving AlexJoni
[17:53:14] <eric_unterhausen> entitled "serial kinematics"
[17:53:34] <eric_unterhausen> started by Viesturs Lācis
[17:54:31] <glowplug> Got it!
[17:54:33] <glowplug> Thanks =D
[17:54:44] <eric_unterhausen> there was also "problem with genserkins" on 10/3/11 started by Francesca Sca
[17:55:58] <glowplug> That's an Italian name. I wonder if its the same person? Hmmm
[18:12:36] <eric_unterhausen> flipping keyboard decided to give up just as my system booted the first time
[18:13:54] <glowplug> =(
[18:18:55] <glowplug> I found something very interesting. Pumagui.py apparently contains all of the robots dimensions.
[18:19:11] <glowplug> I have a feeling it's going to be a few weeks before this works. O_o
[18:34:58] <glowplug> Interesting it actually looks like the pumakins file is in the src directory which was previously mentioned.
[18:35:12] <glowplug> Its a c file. So I make a change then compile it with GCC>
[18:35:16] <glowplug> ?
[18:35:53] <eric_unterhausen> have you built from this directory?
[18:36:08] <eric_unterhausen> I would guess make; make install, but it's been a while
[18:37:19] <glowplug> Nevermind I figured it out. =)
[18:37:45] <glowplug> This C code doesn't need to be modified. The HAL parameters change the values.
[18:38:43] <glowplug> Looks like I need to keep reading the mailing list.
[18:39:05] <eric_unterhausen> if you get a specific problem, you can ask there
[18:39:18] <eric_unterhausen> possibly bigger audience of people that can help
[18:40:22] <eric_unterhausen> of course, people aren't shy asking stupid questions there either
[18:40:26] <glowplug> I think the problem is between keyboard and chair. O.o
[19:11:35] <jdh> I need to cut some 6061 and all I have is a 4-flute bit. Should I go slower?
[19:13:02] <Tom_itx> well, the flutes are more shallow so i'd go with a lighter chip load
[19:13:12] <Tom_itx> per flute that is
[19:14:14] <jdh> all I can do is slow down the spindle or slow down the feed, or just do the same as I was doing for 2 flutes
[19:14:50] <eric_unterhausen> I used to know what to do for about a day and a half
[19:14:56] <Tom_itx> try the same and see how it does
[19:14:57] <eric_unterhausen> I'm not that great of a machinist
[19:15:27] <Tom_itx> 4 flute just tend to load up quicker on aluminum
[19:15:54] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, the aluminum specific ones are 2 flute
[19:15:54] <Tom_itx> some ppl like 3 flute for alum but i still prefer 2
[19:15:56] <eric_unterhausen> and high angle
[19:17:06] <eric_unterhausen> run as fast as possible
[19:17:31] <jdh> I'm barely taking off any metal, just cleaning up the radius from 1/4 to 1/8
[19:17:49] <Tom_itx> don't worry about it then
[20:49:38] <RyanS> Valen my old man wants to get a manual milling machine (not intending to CNC), did your HM-46 do ok as strictly as a manual machine? I'm thinking fixed choice of gears could be a problem
[20:50:04] <Valen> sorta
[20:50:17] <Valen> to be clear ours was a 45
[20:50:50] <Valen> the gearing wasn't really much of a problem
[20:51:07] <Valen> the lash in the gears was more of an issue in terms of finish
[20:51:16] <RyanS> hm they don't appear to sell the 45
[20:51:17] <RyanS> Any more
[20:51:18] <Valen> probably older
[20:52:03] <RyanS> This ones 1.1kw
[20:52:25] <RyanS> Could you do stainless?
[20:53:07] <Valen> I did cut stainless with it
[20:53:10] <Valen> slowly
[20:53:30] <tjb1> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwuzrzxhf2form5/2013-06-23%2021.01.22.jpg
[20:53:54] <Valen> some sort of periodic error in it
[20:53:59] <Valen> other than that, neato
[20:54:53] <RyanS> yeah, you have to feed pretty quick on SS?
[20:55:11] <RyanS> work hardening ..
[20:56:10] <Valen> shallow cut depth
[20:56:22] <Valen> but yeah i think most of the problem we had was with the spindle
[20:56:58] <RyanS> what was the issue?
[20:57:16] <Valen> most of it
[20:57:17] <Valen> ;->
[20:58:41] <RyanS> ie, motor not powerful enough, massive runout?
[20:58:55] <Valen> actually the motor power was OK
[20:59:06] <Valen> i guess the thing is you just need to use lots more tools
[20:59:14] <Valen> and the spindle itself would vibrate
[21:00:52] <RyanS> More tools... Isn't a range of tools generally pretty standard for milling ?
[21:01:09] <Valen> I mean CnC you put a 6mm end mill in and make the entire part
[21:01:18] <Valen> manual you will start off with a 90mm fly cutter
[21:01:26] <Valen> then put a 16mm in and do some stuff
[21:01:30] <Valen> then a 12mm
[21:01:33] <Valen> then a 6
[21:01:41] <Valen> then a corner radius cutter
[21:02:00] <RyanS> yeah for sure
[21:02:42] <RyanS> I figure if he wants to get the mill. It can be used to build parts for the cnc :)
[21:04:18] <Valen> it wasn't total crap
[21:04:30] <RyanS> Already have a set of endmills umm, indexable 16mm endmill & facemill, clamp kit
[21:04:42] <Valen> we didn't need to weld bits onto it to make it stronger like people do with X3s
[21:09:26] <RyanS> I suppose at about twice the weight of sx3 and bigger motor, plus $200 cheaper I guess it's got too bad
[21:11:02] <RyanS> theres a BF20 from titan machinery but I think they are smaller machines
[21:12:17] <RyanS> Did you have to do a lot of stuffing around to tram, clean packing grease, adjust gibs or it was pretty usable out of the box?
[21:14:04] <Valen> half the gib screws weren't tapped all the way though
[21:16:40] <jdh> does anyone else ever forget to touch-off Z after changing tools, or just me?
[21:17:23] <Valen> not often, its expensive
[21:17:34] <jdh> yeah
[21:17:53] <jdh> for some reason, I never forget in a way that makes it just not cut
[21:18:11] <RyanS> urgh,
[21:23:20] <Tom_itx> handy to have multiple holders then you can pre set them
[21:43:01] <jdh> I guess. I don't.
[21:45:13] <Tom_itx> just a rigid spindle?
[21:53:12] <KimK> Tom_itx: Sorry I missed you, I was all over the place. Maybe I can buy you lunch sometime?
[21:53:53] <Tom_itx> i'll probably swing by tomorrow
[21:54:08] <Tom_itx> i'm supposed to pick up a board Pete left for me
[21:54:36] <Tom_itx> i had to leave early for a trip up to KC
[21:56:35] <KimK> Oh, OK, what board was it? I hope it's still here, a lot of boards went out the door. Was somebody saving it for you?
[21:56:51] <Tom_itx> well i mentioned it to stuart
[21:56:55] <Tom_itx> 7i84
[21:57:11] <Tom_itx> and made arrangements with pete to leave it
[21:57:17] <Tom_itx> but who knows...
[21:57:18] <KimK> I forgot which one that is, SSI of some kiind, right?
[21:57:25] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:57:26] <KimK> s/kiind/kind/
[21:58:52] <KimK> I see it now, isolated 32 in 16 out GPIO.
[21:59:06] <KimK> Are you using SSI already?
[21:59:23] <Tom_itx> no but i made a bit file for the 7i47 to use it
[22:01:18] <KimK> OK, great. Maybe I can get a tour of your projects sometime? Did they give you a tour of our projects over here?
[22:01:36] <Tom_itx> stuart showed me around the shop while i was there
[22:01:45] <Tom_itx> pretty cool stuff you got goin on there
[22:02:13] <Tom_itx> i'd never been around EDM so i thought that was cool
[22:02:52] <Tom_itx> about all i've got is the sherline which is less than impressive
[22:03:26] <Tom_itx> all the conversion i've done for the most part is online
[22:03:46] <KimK> Ha, yes, did he show you the "drilled and tapped" ball bearing? ("Because we can.", lol)
[22:04:00] <Tom_itx> yep
[22:04:07] <KimK> That's a good one.
[22:04:46] <KimK> Hey, there's nothing wrong with a Sherline, it is what it is.
[22:05:40] <KimK> Everything has advantages and disadvantages. The Sherline fits in your house, lol!
[22:05:55] <tjb1> Tom_itx:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1013080_10201018537441605_450226344_n.jpg
[22:06:07] <Tom_itx> well i just use it for testing stuff mostly
[22:06:34] <KimK> Oh, cool, it's four-axis?
[22:06:42] <Tom_itx> i wish
[22:06:53] <Tom_itx> some day i hope to make / acquire a rotary
[22:06:57] <KimK> Well, good job on the owl, anyway.
[22:07:28] <Tom_itx> tjb1, looks pretty good
[22:07:56] <tjb1> The ears had problems from too much residual heat
[22:08:02] <KimK> Ah, sorry, I wasn't paying attention, hi tjb1
[22:08:10] <tjb1> Hello KimK
[22:08:45] <KimK> tjb1: So *you* have the rotary?
[22:08:53] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: did you say you had a tour of Stuarts shop Friday am?
[22:09:01] <tjb1> KimK: rotary?
[22:09:07] <KimK> Hi Sam, welcome home?
[22:09:21] <skunkworks> Hey!!
[22:09:48] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, yes
[22:09:49] <KimK> skunkworks: That was fast, if you're back home already.
[22:10:14] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: I was on the same tour :)
[22:10:46] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: did you guys drive home already?
[22:11:10] <KimK> tjb1: Sorry, it looked like you might have done the owl with a rotary. If not, that's even better, lol.
[22:11:14] <CaptHindsight> <--- flight delayed 3+ hours on the way back yesterday
[22:11:18] <skunkworks> yes - left at about 8:00 and make it home by 6:00
[22:11:31] <KimK> skunkworks: Nice!
[22:11:41] <tjb1> KimK:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/otpbuowtqj0np30/2013-06-09%2023.08.03.jpg
[22:12:27] <Tom_itx> KimK, are you working on any retrofits atm?
[22:13:11] <KimK> Tom_itx: Ha, yes, I'm working on a bunch of them and none of them, lol!
[22:13:48] <CaptHindsight> anyone ever use
http://www.tenryu.com/pra.html for cutting aluminum extrusions?
[22:15:08] <Tom_itx> is that a chopsaw or what?
[22:15:08] <CaptHindsight> 12" miter
[22:15:17] <Tom_itx> a guy here used a regular circular saw with a fine tooth blade to cut brass bar just fine
[22:16:27] <jdh> I use a regular carbide tipped saw blade on my chopsaw for aluminum
[22:17:23] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: this works good -
http://www.dewalt.com/tools/metalworking-multi-cutter-saws-dw872.aspx
[22:17:33] <tjb1> works good even in steel
[22:17:53] <skunkworks> KimK: thinks again for the burgers!
[22:18:13] <Tom_itx> aww
[22:18:22] <Tom_itx> i missed burgers !
[22:18:41] <CaptHindsight> I noticed that the t-slot disti near me gets clean cuts with no secondary machining
[22:18:58] <tjb1> I can do that with that dewalt
[22:18:59] <KimK> skunkworks: Sure, glad you liked them! I'll look forward to our next meal, wherever it is.
[22:19:58] <KimK> Tom_itx: Ha, I'll be happy to correct the burger oversight at your convenience, lol.
[22:20:38] <Tom_itx> the one up the street?
[22:20:46] <Tom_itx> walts or ... i forget the other one
[22:21:07] <KimK> Tom_itx: And you didn't miss anything in that there wasn't a burger event. It was just Sam Jr., Sam Sr., and I.
[22:21:19] <eric_unterhausen> trying to get my boss to retrofit a horrible commercial control with linuxcnc
[22:21:34] <CaptHindsight> tjb1: do you use the hold downs as they are or did you beef them up?
[22:21:36] <KimK> Tom_itx: No, it was Bionic on Pawnee and Meridian.
[22:21:51] <Tom_itx> yeah those are just as good
[22:22:07] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: just use the vise it came with, watch cutting small dowel though…it now has 1 broken tooth
[22:22:57] <KimK> eric_unterhausen: Let me know if I can help, Stuart would be glad to show him around or talk to him by phone if it would help. And there are some of Stuart's videos available on YouTube.
[22:24:01] <Tom_itx> he seems quite knowledgeable on linuxcnc
[22:24:31] <KimK> Yes, he is quite the proponent of it, and for a lot of good reasons.
[22:25:24] <eric_unterhausen> KimK, sent him one of Stuart's vids, didn't really help
[22:25:53] <eric_unterhausen> I think he would rather have a broken system than spend $500 on it
[22:26:08] <Tom_itx> is it the down time that bugs him?
[22:26:26] <eric_unterhausen> we haven't been using it
[22:26:49] <Tom_itx> have you come up with a retrofit plan/budget?
[22:26:52] <Tom_itx> to present him
[22:27:07] <eric_unterhausen> tried to use it last week and found out that it was broken worse than we thought
[22:27:19] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: boy - did I miss you? or do I just have brain fade>
[22:27:21] <eric_unterhausen> it's just that the control is so inflexible that it's a pain to fix
[22:27:55] <eric_unterhausen> the main problem is that it has a flaky encoder
[22:27:55] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, hard to say... i'm not good with remembering names much until i get to know someone either
[22:28:02] <KimK> Ah, so he views it as spending money on something that is not needed? Maybe you should find out how many jobs they are passing on since their machine doesn't work? That's money "floating by" that he's not "grabbing".
[22:28:06] <skunkworks> heh
[22:28:13] <skunkworks> I resemble that remeark
[22:28:18] <Tom_itx> i had to leave early anyway
[22:28:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.brobousa.com/metalcuttingcoldsaws/aluminumcuttingsaw.html
[22:28:29] <eric_unterhausen> we are trying to figure out how to get jobs at all given our academic environment
[22:28:52] <CaptHindsight> I like the hold downs that drop
[22:29:38] <KimK> eric_unterhausen: What is the machine? Would they consider selling it on eBay/Craigslist/etc if it worked? If it didn't?
[22:30:09] <eric_unterhausen> it isn't ours
[22:30:19] <KimK> Ah, there's the rub.
[22:30:24] <eric_unterhausen> ya
[22:30:45] <KimK> Maybe he should offer to buy it first?
[22:30:48] <Tom_itx> is that part of the holdup on retrofitting it?
[22:30:53] <eric_unterhausen> he already sold it :)
[22:31:03] <eric_unterhausen> the person didn't take delivery
[22:31:08] <KimK> Ah, then you need to talk to the new owners?
[22:31:20] <KimK> Oh, I see.
[22:31:20] <eric_unterhausen> we do that a lot anyway
[22:31:27] <eric_unterhausen> friends
[22:32:44] <eric_unterhausen> I figured it was worth the minor investement to make it work much better
[22:33:50] <KimK> OK, well, let me know if there's anything I can do to help you. Where are you located (approx)?
[22:34:02] <eric_unterhausen> Pennsylvania
[22:34:32] <KimK> OK. I'll help you if I can.
[22:35:08] <Tom_itx> i considered it worth it to invest in mesa / gecko stuff to make a huge improvement on my meager sherline
[22:35:57] <KimK> Sure, did you get to see the little South Bend Magnaturns while you were here?
[22:36:15] <Tom_itx> i mostly do it to learn about the hardware / software nowdays
[22:36:23] <Tom_itx> no i missed the lathe
[22:36:38] <Tom_itx> i saw the rigid tapping demo
[22:36:44] <eric_unterhausen> I need to get my mill running, then he probably wouldn't have as much hesitation
[22:37:02] <Tom_itx> you now have a goal
[22:37:27] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, but if we don't get any work to replace the money I spend on the retrofit, it comes out of my pocket :)
[22:37:28] <KimK> Tom_itx: Yes, learning is always good. And maybe there will be pictures of the Magnaturns eventually.
[22:38:15] <Tom_itx> eric_unterhausen, you must believe in what you do then
[22:38:24] <Tom_itx> is it worth the risk?
[22:38:43] <eric_unterhausen> not much money
[22:39:17] <KimK> eric_unterhausen: If that's the deal, ask him if you can run side jobs until you recover your money. Then, when you've recovered your money, ask him if you can keep running side jobs for a split of the money. Pretty soon you'll have a machine shop of your own!
[22:40:03] <Tom_itx> that's how my buddy started
[22:40:21] <eric_unterhausen> we are in the business of doing research
[22:40:41] <eric_unterhausen> I have thought of starting a shop though
[22:43:39] <KimK> Sure, it sounds like a good idea. It's all in what kind of jobs you can get, how profitable they are, I mean. It's good to have a plan, and some starting customers with jobs they want done.
[22:47:57] <KimK> Oh the other hand, if you can keep selling the machine to people to never come to pick it up, that sounds like a moneymaking idea too! "...(17) If the machine is not picked up within thirty days of this sale, the machine returns to the sellers, and the sellers keep any money the buyers have paid."...
[22:48:16] <KimK> s/to people to/to people who/
[22:49:10] <KimK> Keep chatting, I'll be back in a bit.
[23:40:40] <RyanS> We purchased a quick change tool post with 14mm clamp - we have 16mm tools. oops looks like some tool grinding is in store
[23:44:02] <CaptHindsight> no tool shrinker?
[23:45:42] <RyanS> Would be a handy invention. Only a cheap set of tools luckily
[23:46:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.harborfreight.com/metal-shrinkerstretcher-set-68897.html to good to be true :)
[23:47:59] <RyanS> That wouldn't do too good with a hardened steel tool shank
[23:48:30] <CaptHindsight> I always though that those sheet metal tools were misleading
[23:55:01] <RyanS> Not my tools but dads
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/Mingzhus/lathetools_zps9194c13c.jpg the only ones I can identify is second last which is a internal(?) 60 threading tool
[23:55:24] <RyanS> Number four is also threadinh probably 60
